The Complete Hulk Hogan | An Interview with Fumi Saito

<v Speaker 1>Well, if we're going to go to Japan and we're
<v Speaker 1>going to go in depth as part of the complete
<v Speaker 1>Hulkoguan on the Lapsed Fan, we really can't do any
<v Speaker 1>better than reaching out to Fumi Saido, who you know
<v Speaker 1>from over the years covering Japanese pro wrestling so very
<v Speaker 1>well and doing the specific Rim podcast on the Wrestling
<v Speaker 1>Observer website and just all around being just a tremendous
<v Speaker 1>source and translator for so much of what's happened in
<v Speaker 1>the Rings of Japan and definitely knew Hulk Hogan. Well,
<v Speaker 1>so we're really excited on the show now to bring
<v Speaker 1>in Fumi to get just a better perspective on Hulk
<v Speaker 1>and what he meant to Japan. Fumi, it's great to
<v Speaker 1>have you on the show.
<v Speaker 2>Hello from Tokyo.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, Hello, indeed live and direct, and could you just
<v Speaker 1>first introduce yourself to our listeners, Fumi and in all
<v Speaker 1>the work you've done in pro wrestling.
<v Speaker 2>My name is Sumi Saito. I'm from Tokyo, Japan. I've
<v Speaker 2>been writing in writing books and doing the Japanese Wrestling
<v Speaker 2>magazine since ninety EU one. Wow, so it's been forty
<v Speaker 2>five years. I'm not that old. But I started when
<v Speaker 2>I was nineteen, while I was in Minnesota and going
<v Speaker 2>to college. Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's a great thing, a great string. We can have.
<v Speaker 2>Another podcast called write That Down, Write That Down.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, please let the people know.
<v Speaker 2>Right, another one that's I enjoy doing. You know, it's
<v Speaker 2>not like it's true that you never make any money
<v Speaker 2>doing podcasts. You just have to just do it, you
<v Speaker 2>know kind of thing.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you have to enjoy it whether you make money.
<v Speaker 3>And also share that this day and age, you know
<v Speaker 3>that the more and more AI generated, you know, not
<v Speaker 3>just photos, but the articles that the things are obviously
<v Speaker 3>when you read it, you know, these articles, recent articles
<v Speaker 3>obviously written by AI, you know, and it's this inaccurate information,
<v Speaker 3>you know, get blown up, you know, out of proportion.
<v Speaker 2>And probably today's younger, you know audience, you know, for them,
<v Speaker 2>it's the first thing they read. Yeah it's not good.
<v Speaker 1>No, not good. Now we're gonna work.
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, well, well we are a little older and
<v Speaker 2>we like to share.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, and yeah, yeah, let's get into that.
<v Speaker 2>Hopefully we passed down you know that what we have experienced.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's what's great about conversations like this and being
<v Speaker 1>able to reach each other via the magic of the Internet.
<v Speaker 1>As we can do that, we can preserve that. And
<v Speaker 1>so I'd like to ask you, first of all, when
<v Speaker 1>did you start following pro wrestling? I know how long
<v Speaker 1>you've worked in wrestling, but when did you start watching?
<v Speaker 2>Oh, when I was three years old? Really, yeah, it
<v Speaker 2>was my grandfather Friday night, eight o'clock and Japan always
<v Speaker 2>had network coverage. Network channel had wrestling and it was
<v Speaker 2>always eight o'clock Friday night. And I was three years old,
<v Speaker 2>and you know, back then, you know, it was a
<v Speaker 2>strange experience because it was really, you know, special television
<v Speaker 2>night for my grandfather and neighborhood, I mean neighbor you
<v Speaker 2>know this, you know so and so and mister so
<v Speaker 2>and so come into your living his living room. We
<v Speaker 2>sat together, really watched dressing for one hour before vcrlo.
<v Speaker 1>What you're saying, Yes, of course, of course, so was
<v Speaker 1>he uh And.
<v Speaker 2>The first experience was black and white TV too.
<v Speaker 1>Was he into Ricky dozen? But was he watching tag teams?
<v Speaker 1>Even architect teams? So so didn't go back to Ricky dozen.
<v Speaker 1>So we want to talk about Yeah, we want to
<v Speaker 1>talk about it though.
<v Speaker 2>But it was even before Johan Baba's Old Japan progressing
<v Speaker 2>and Anthony is in New Japan progressing. The j w
<v Speaker 2>A days. As a kid, Yeah, as a kid, I
<v Speaker 2>witnessed they broke off from old you know, old jw
<v Speaker 2>A company and the you Oki becoming his own in
<v Speaker 2>Baba becoming his own, and pretty soon the old ship
<v Speaker 2>you know died.
<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, yeah, very good. So that's a great introduction.
<v Speaker 1>We we started talking about Hulk in nineteen eighty. He
<v Speaker 1>comes in in May for the first time, his very
<v Speaker 1>first tour, h yeah, yes, and.
<v Speaker 2>Right after his first run with WWF.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, he just started in November nineteen seventy nine with WWF.
<v Speaker 1>He wrestled Abiassi in the garden in December. And can
<v Speaker 1>you tell us what you know? I mean, you started
<v Speaker 1>covering in eighty one, but as a fan, what do
<v Speaker 1>you know about what Hogan came to?
<v Speaker 2>But I started, you know, taking ringside photos and start
<v Speaker 2>writing articles and sending photos to Japanese magazines.
<v Speaker 1>Since there you won, Okay, So yeah, Hogan came down. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>why did Hogan come in? And what do you think
<v Speaker 1>an Oki saw in him?
<v Speaker 2>Oh, it was that the partnership, the partnership between New
<v Speaker 2>Japan progressing and Vince mcmans ww wwwf ihould say yeah,
<v Speaker 2>And the how Cogan was one of those superstars after
<v Speaker 2>if you remember, she would bob back an era and
<v Speaker 2>Vince mcmen senior is still around. Of course, Vince McMahon
<v Speaker 2>today's Vince McMahon is still there, I mean already there.
<v Speaker 2>But they had three three months run if you remember,
<v Speaker 2>you know, same challenger challenging Bob Mackroun's title three months
<v Speaker 2>in a row at the Madison Square Garden. First time,
<v Speaker 2>first matchup. Usually let's say somebody like Adrian Donas or
<v Speaker 2>you know somebody, Yeah, yeah, beat the champion first month
<v Speaker 2>with COUNTA or something, and the second man month it's
<v Speaker 2>like a double d Q or something, and third months
<v Speaker 2>you have like a final match. And right after those
<v Speaker 2>that the three months program, they toured New Japan, you know,
<v Speaker 2>whether it was Camp Peterra or you know, just just
<v Speaker 2>kept coming, you know. Then you have NWF champion Antioch
<v Speaker 2>waiting to have title defense.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, Hogan fit into that pattern because he had wrestled
<v Speaker 1>Backland before he came to Japan.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and also he he was more like a well
<v Speaker 2>definitely was green. This nineteen eighty version of how Colgan
<v Speaker 2>was not complete, still had a white tights, white trunks
<v Speaker 2>and white boots with cape and all these things, and
<v Speaker 2>more like superstar Billy Graham than the letter Hogan, you
<v Speaker 2>know what I'm saying. Yes, but he was treated as
<v Speaker 2>something special right away because it was being standands and
<v Speaker 2>like a younger brother type tag team partner. This is
<v Speaker 2>this is a new guy under my wing. And that
<v Speaker 2>was the Madison Score Garden Series. Of course that sounds
<v Speaker 2>like WWF right, Yes, every spring before IWGP, every spring,
<v Speaker 2>New Japan had this big tournament called Madison Square Garden Series,
<v Speaker 2>all these guys from under the Giant, the dust zero
<v Speaker 2>Ros of course Stany Hansen and later one week for
<v Speaker 2>buy back and then they have tournament and usually the
<v Speaker 2>final is either in Oki against Andrea or against Stan Hansen.
<v Speaker 2>Of course the tournament final. Yes, but I think New
<v Speaker 2>Japan and Antony Oki saw how you know something in
<v Speaker 2>how Cogan, we won't make this guy this this guy
<v Speaker 2>is gonna be something. You definitely something. And back then
<v Speaker 2>in the early part eighties, American wrestlers, you know, sometimes
<v Speaker 2>for American superstars, it's like once in lifetime to go
<v Speaker 2>to Japan. Right at the time, but they you know,
<v Speaker 2>New Japan brought Hogan back in October right away, yes,
<v Speaker 2>four months later. Yeah, and that time was of course
<v Speaker 2>you're taiger Singing there, you know, his biggest arrival, Taigerji
<v Speaker 2>sing and people like Chavo Guerrero, the young Paul Arndolf,
<v Speaker 2>young Ronster, Steve Karran and how Cogan was in that
<v Speaker 2>package very much.
<v Speaker 1>So. So when he comes in, did it matter to
<v Speaker 1>the Japanese fans that he was managed by fred Blassie?
<v Speaker 2>Of course it was like this guy has to be
<v Speaker 2>a big name. Yeah, you know how big Freddy Blassi was.
<v Speaker 2>And Freddy Blassi goes back to the nineteen sixty two
<v Speaker 2>so of course, you know Ricky dozen against Freddy Blassi.
<v Speaker 2>That w W a war title program, you know, one
<v Speaker 2>title match in Na, another title match in Tokyo and
<v Speaker 2>back to l and such a big program on television
<v Speaker 2>at the time. And Freddy Blassi came back to the
<v Speaker 2>superstar wrestler. You know when Enoki has he has forgotten history,
<v Speaker 2>you and that the United National Heavyweight Champion Antoninoki defended
<v Speaker 2>his title against Freddy Blassi. Yeah, back in seventy one
<v Speaker 2>or something. Then another big deal was that it was
<v Speaker 2>treated as if that the Freddy Blassi brought Muhammad Ali
<v Speaker 2>to Japan.
<v Speaker 4>Yes, he was his mouth so like a half wrestling,
<v Speaker 4>half boxing thing, and it was important for this the
<v Speaker 4>whole magnitue to have Freddy Blassi in the press conference situation.
<v Speaker 2>Did so how Colgan was brought in from the just
<v Speaker 2>right off w W un w F, I should say
<v Speaker 2>WWS run was Freddy Blassi treated us this guy is
<v Speaker 2>a new superstar, new.
<v Speaker 1>Superstar and was Stan Hansen already aligned with fred Blassie
<v Speaker 1>in Japan before?
<v Speaker 2>But Stan Hanson's case is always unique. But because Hm,
<v Speaker 2>Stan Hanson's big bad American supposedly shiel, but fans never
<v Speaker 2>saw stand as kind of heel. He never cheated. He's
<v Speaker 2>just a big strong that physically just so dominant that
<v Speaker 2>Japanese wrestlers can't do anything about. It was really always
<v Speaker 2>challenged for say Antonio Occhio some but you go right
<v Speaker 2>at Stan Hansen because just so much bigger, right same
<v Speaker 2>as Andre, Andre works like you in Japan. He meant
<v Speaker 2>to do that. But Stan was a very unique case.
<v Speaker 2>Stan and Brody I should say that Shel but not really.
<v Speaker 2>Heal absolutely somebody like a big bad American Guiji wrestler
<v Speaker 2>that never cheated. It's just physical, you know what I'm saying.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and Hogan was that way too. It sounds like
<v Speaker 1>Hogan was sort of a you know, he did some
<v Speaker 1>heel things, but he was cheered very quickly.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a Stan Hansen school wrestling. Yeah. And that
<v Speaker 2>year again, November nineteen eighty, New Japan brought Hogan back
<v Speaker 2>for three the third time in one year. Yep. And
<v Speaker 2>that the Madison Score Garden Tag Team tournament that Hawk
<v Speaker 2>Hogan Young Hawk Hogan teamed up to stand with Stan
<v Speaker 2>Hansen that year already already on top. Yes.
<v Speaker 1>Do you remember watching that tournament final in Oki and
<v Speaker 1>Backland versus Hanson and Hogan. Do you remember as a
<v Speaker 1>fan that being a big deal?
<v Speaker 2>Uh? I only saw that on videotape, sure because I
<v Speaker 2>was in Minnesota at the time, But yes, I did
<v Speaker 2>see that. Well, looking back hindsight, that being in a
<v Speaker 2>ring Enoki and back Black and Tag team right King
<v Speaker 2>and King, Yes, against Stan Hanson and hal Colgan like
<v Speaker 2>right up there with them. That's a treat, you know,
<v Speaker 2>that's a treatment.
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, you mentioned Backland. Can you give us your
<v Speaker 1>perspective on the title changes they did, and what was
<v Speaker 1>it seventy eight or an Okan Backland seventy seventy nine? Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>what was that about?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Right? And when Enoki passed four years ago in
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty two, ww Television even announced that the big
<v Speaker 2>Legend has passed. Antoniooki unofficial WWS only a Japanese WWF
<v Speaker 2>champion because it was unofficial, but it was and clearly
<v Speaker 2>in Tokushima, Japan nineteen seventy nine, clearly beat Bob Beckland
<v Speaker 2>to win the title that belt, and he had a
<v Speaker 2>first title defense back in Tokyo, he had Tiger Jing interference,
<v Speaker 2>all these things. And if it was John Bobo's nw
<v Speaker 2>A heavyweight title, you beat Harry Race right then Hardy
<v Speaker 2>Race beat him again a week later or something. By
<v Speaker 2>the time Hardy rece goes home, he'll beat you know,
<v Speaker 2>Harley Race will be back in champions fair and square
<v Speaker 2>pretty much in the ring. But this was more complicated
<v Speaker 2>storyline that INOQ such as okay in Oki was not
<v Speaker 2>happy about that the outcome of the match that he's
<v Speaker 2>relinquishing in returning belt back to WWF. He didn't get
<v Speaker 2>technically he lost it.
<v Speaker 1>He didn't lose it back to backlan he just didn't
<v Speaker 1>really want it anymore.
<v Speaker 2>And relinquished it. And I think you know that made
<v Speaker 2>the Vincent Kennedy McMahon that in Oki betrayed my dad.
<v Speaker 1>Oh really, yeah, he's talking about that.
<v Speaker 2>Yep. Yeah, because I think I brought It's not written
<v Speaker 2>anywhere and we probably won't be able to see any
<v Speaker 2>document of it, but that the deal was in Oki
<v Speaker 2>would do enough you know WWF title in Japan and
<v Speaker 2>return it and you know by back and beat again, right, yes,
<v Speaker 2>then then goes home like.
<v Speaker 1>That isn't how it played out, right, Yeah?
<v Speaker 2>And then the news travels pretty slow in nineteen seventy
<v Speaker 2>nine and kind of like your Dominican Republic Puerto Rican
<v Speaker 2>title changing, very similar to that. But in Oki did
<v Speaker 2>not lose the belt. He technically technically returned the title, right,
<v Speaker 2>And there's more storyline that in Japan and the title
<v Speaker 2>was appro grab okay, Inoki is going to New York
<v Speaker 2>at the Managemon Square Garden that the vacate ww title
<v Speaker 2>you know, will be crowned once again in Oki against
<v Speaker 2>Bob Becker at the Manason Square Garden and all these
<v Speaker 2>Tokyo Sports The Weekly not a weekly yet, but the
<v Speaker 2>Progressing magazine, the Gang Magazine. All these that the tabloid newspapers,
<v Speaker 2>the magazine, sports pages, sports sections all traveled to New
<v Speaker 2>York Madagon Square Garden, thinking that really thinking that that
<v Speaker 2>the Enoki bar back And match will happen at the
<v Speaker 2>Madison Square Guard. When they got there, Vince McMahon senior,
<v Speaker 2>Vince mcmah senior announced that the had a small press
<v Speaker 2>conference just for Japanese press, that that tonight that mister
<v Speaker 2>Enoki will be defending his ww Martial Arts heavyweight title
<v Speaker 2>against Iron Chic Hassan Arab Yes, and mister Bob Backlund
<v Speaker 2>would be having a match against Bob back On to
<v Speaker 2>determine a new champion. I mean that the Bobby Big
<v Speaker 2>Bob Bobby Duncom in New York City. In New York City,
<v Speaker 2>he was announced return Texas Death match by back On
<v Speaker 2>against Bobby Duncom. That all these live audience thinking that
<v Speaker 2>it's a non title Texas Death match, you know, between
<v Speaker 2>Bob back and Bobby Duncom. Sure enough for the photo purpose,
<v Speaker 2>still for Japanese press. Sure enough, Bob back And goes
<v Speaker 2>in the ring without belt, without a belt. Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>Interesting this is.
<v Speaker 2>So careful about this thing, right, they're at the end
<v Speaker 2>of the night that the new belt that you know
<v Speaker 2>that the purpole letter w W belt you know, was
<v Speaker 2>given back to back and at the end of the
<v Speaker 2>night in the case closed. Wow.
<v Speaker 1>Was it given back to him at the end of
<v Speaker 1>the night in front of the people or just after?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah he had a be because he's
<v Speaker 2>actually Shima hold the belt. Yes, you know, figurehead w
<v Speaker 2>W president.
<v Speaker 1>Right, and so what was the do you know what
<v Speaker 1>the reaction of the Japanese press was, why didn't we
<v Speaker 1>get an ok versus Backland?
<v Speaker 2>Uh? That was just that because he was announced and
<v Speaker 2>had a small press conference just for Japanese press, and
<v Speaker 2>that was supposed to understand that that the title was
<v Speaker 2>you know, at the end of the night, title was
<v Speaker 2>back to Bob background and you know he did defend
<v Speaker 2>his w W Marshall's title against Hassan a Rabbi and Chic.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah he won't Yes, got it. And that was the
<v Speaker 2>last time they you know, in bar back had a program. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>they had to do something about it because this was
<v Speaker 2>the Tokhima title match you know against barb Backen was
<v Speaker 2>a fourth title match in one year. You know, he
<v Speaker 2>had to win.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, he can't lose four times.
<v Speaker 2>First meeting sixty minute Broadway ww title against end be
<v Speaker 2>a titled you know, double title match. Nobody's gonna win,
<v Speaker 2>you know, sixty minutes. And another time Enoki himself challenged
<v Speaker 2>Bob Becker and didn't win the title. The third time,
<v Speaker 2>Youki again challenged ww title, and it's just not right
<v Speaker 2>that Youki's not winning this American title.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, you no, that's that's a great that's a great context.
<v Speaker 1>I didn't I never realized that Anoki sort of told
<v Speaker 1>the Japanese public that he was relinquishing the belt, that
<v Speaker 1>that's how it all came to an end. So that's
<v Speaker 1>great context as far as, like you know, hul Cogan
<v Speaker 1>comes in after all, that's happened not too long after.
<v Speaker 1>In fact, at the same time, it's happened and fits
<v Speaker 1>into the WWF New Japan relationship you mentioned to Shashishinma.
<v Speaker 1>We all know he was the figurehead WWF president at
<v Speaker 1>the time. Anoki and many others. Tatsumi Fujinami's the junior
<v Speaker 1>heavyweight champion, coming back and forth to Madison Square Garden.
<v Speaker 1>What can you tell our listeners for me about the
<v Speaker 1>nature of the relationship between WWF and New Japan back then.
<v Speaker 1>Why did it make sense for both companies to work together.
<v Speaker 2>It started back in nineteen seventy four Vince McMahon, senior
<v Speaker 2>in Vincent James McMahon, flew into Japan and and he
<v Speaker 2>came into the Final Night of War then called the
<v Speaker 2>World Series tournament and gave big trophy to you know
<v Speaker 2>Key the winner. He by the way he beat killed
<v Speaker 2>a car crops. Yeah, World League Tournament thing, and announced
<v Speaker 2>that the that the WWWF of New York and New
<v Speaker 2>Japan progressing of Tokyo, Japan would be you know who
<v Speaker 2>signed the partnership then Andrew the giant coming in, you know,
<v Speaker 2>so that it was a real good thing. And also
<v Speaker 2>all the n W A territory superstars, you know when
<v Speaker 2>n W was really big, like not just saying Louis,
<v Speaker 2>but the NW four that the NW Georgia that you know,
<v Speaker 2>or even Dallas, Texas, you know before World Classes in
<v Speaker 2>W territory, the Chikhs, big Time Wrestling, all these guys
<v Speaker 2>one after another. John Bubba's Old Japan always had American superstars, yes, yeah, yeah,
<v Speaker 2>and Inoki had Tiger sing the biggest hell in one
<v Speaker 2>of the biggest hell in Japanese history, the big superstar,
<v Speaker 2>much bigger superstar than it was led to believe in America,
<v Speaker 2>you know, because in Oki against Tiger saying what lasted
<v Speaker 2>ten years? You know, And when I was kid, I
<v Speaker 2>was almost sick of it because it's just like long
<v Speaker 2>against Sing, you Oki against Sing that, the Lamberjack match,
<v Speaker 2>you ok against Sing, the Oil Indian Oil Death match,
<v Speaker 2>in Oki against again. But at the same time, it
<v Speaker 2>was Jihan Baba against a Blue of the Butcher all
<v Speaker 2>year long on a different channel. Yes, yeah, so same
<v Speaker 2>kind of similar structure. Back to w W if that
<v Speaker 2>we were excited as a kid, all these superstars that
<v Speaker 2>you read about magazine, you know, matters on Square Garden.
<v Speaker 2>It's like your Holy grave. You know, it's the biggest
<v Speaker 2>place in America, Madison, Square Gun. All those persons coming,
<v Speaker 2>yeah right, one by one. Yeah, but not every single them,
<v Speaker 2>but a lot of them. Game, you know, And how
<v Speaker 2>Cogan was willing to spend more time in Japan at
<v Speaker 2>the time, I think he was nextured by Stan Hansen.
<v Speaker 2>How you can handle this? You know, Japanese wrestling, there's
<v Speaker 2>no storyline. Storyline is very subtle. They never have studio
<v Speaker 2>mic time. You do that in the ring and day
<v Speaker 2>tape and air arena matches in Japan, so all the
<v Speaker 2>you know, subtle angle storyline take place in at the building.
<v Speaker 2>And if you it was topped by Freddy Blassy, that
<v Speaker 2>pretty brassy told how young How Cogan twenty seven year
<v Speaker 2>old Hall Coogan. If you act like a star, they
<v Speaker 2>will treat you like a star here in Japan.
<v Speaker 1>Wow, what do you think he meant? Act like a star?
<v Speaker 1>What does that mean?
<v Speaker 2>Carry yourself like a star? You know, and being here
<v Speaker 2>in the ring is fine, but once you're outside, you know,
<v Speaker 2>like a meet your fan at a restaurant or hotel,
<v Speaker 2>lobby or the airport, you'd be asked autographs or get
<v Speaker 2>the picture taken. You know, you act like carry yourself
<v Speaker 2>like a star. Yeah, you know, very good. And Japanese
<v Speaker 2>fans will give you a gift too.
<v Speaker 1>It's not just the one way thing. Yes. What was
<v Speaker 1>the financial arrangement between WWF and New Japan. Was it
<v Speaker 1>lucrative for both sides or was it just to get
<v Speaker 1>the wrestler's experience.
<v Speaker 2>I think it was News Japan who paid WWF annual contract.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, that's what I've heard. Yeah, yeah, Because wasn't the
<v Speaker 1>New Japan money a big part of Vince Junior's initial
<v Speaker 1>money that he needed to get wrestling once.
<v Speaker 2>It paid back? So probably, but it was more Vince
<v Speaker 2>Senior deal, Absolutely, it was, yes, yeah, yeah. So see,
<v Speaker 2>between Junior and his son, the McMahon family always took
<v Speaker 2>each each other as a business. It took long time
<v Speaker 2>for Vince Junior to pay up Vincenior. So I kind
<v Speaker 2>of don't think New Japan was part of the finance.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, all right, understood.
<v Speaker 2>So when when Vince this today's Vincent Kennedy McMahon took over,
<v Speaker 2>it was New Japan who paid a lot bigger annual rights.
<v Speaker 1>Yes. My point is that early money, the earliest money
<v Speaker 1>that Vince Junior had access to was from New Japan.
<v Speaker 2>Four and eighty five, yes, yes, and the annual annual rights. Yes,
<v Speaker 2>And then he started sending wrestlers he did.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well we'll talk about that well, but back to
<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighty in Hogan's debut, we were to look for
<v Speaker 1>me at some manga graphic novel books that they did
<v Speaker 1>of Haulkgan and Japan. Uh sort of you know, illustrations
<v Speaker 1>of him wrestling Hanson and wrestling uh and Oki and
<v Speaker 1>wrestling Andre and they talked that. Yeah, and they talk
<v Speaker 1>about him as a superhuman.
<v Speaker 2>Uh. But Holgan wasn't the only one that's that was
<v Speaker 2>a manga Japanese you know, the comic book series that
<v Speaker 2>had Abdul the Butcher and the Tigers sing in there,
<v Speaker 2>Stan Hansen in there, you know, the funks in there
<v Speaker 2>and how Cogan like people like great Kabuki in there.
<v Speaker 2>But the Holgan's series came in a little bit later. Yes, yes,
<v Speaker 2>so obviously that they were looking at how Cogan's this
<v Speaker 2>is this guy's the next superstar? Yeah, what's interesting about superstar?
<v Speaker 2>And what was interesting? Non televised single match between Stan
<v Speaker 2>Hansen against hal Cogan at the Coracan Hall stand didn't
<v Speaker 2>beat him.
<v Speaker 1>When was that nineteen eighty one?
<v Speaker 2>Uh?
<v Speaker 1>Eighty m sure eighty.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because nineteen eighty one was the last, you know,
<v Speaker 2>the final year Stan Hanson worked for New Japan to
<v Speaker 2>Japan right, yeah, okay, December, right after the management Square
<v Speaker 2>Guard the tag team tournament. He didn't even leave. He
<v Speaker 2>shows up at the Simmo Palace seconding stan Hanson, seconding
<v Speaker 2>Bruce Aburi and Simmy Snook. Yes, going up against Dory
<v Speaker 2>and Terry Funk, that was the biggest opportunity for Hawk Horgan.
<v Speaker 2>He signed New deal in January of nineteen eighty two,
<v Speaker 2>and he became He took basically took West stand was standing.
<v Speaker 1>Stan tried to convince him to go to All Japan
<v Speaker 1>and he stuck with New It.
<v Speaker 2>Wasn't stand will probably never get political about it. You know,
<v Speaker 2>I believe it was Terry.
<v Speaker 1>Funk that Chorry Funk was trying to bring Hogan over. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>Well I'm pretty sure. Stan Hanson says in his book
<v Speaker 1>that he did try to convince Hulk to come with
<v Speaker 1>him to All Japan, but New Japan offered a deal
<v Speaker 1>that really was sweet for him because they wanted to
<v Speaker 1>keep him. And now with Hanson out of the way, right,
<v Speaker 1>he can be number one American star.
<v Speaker 2>But let's not look at it like Holgan had no
<v Speaker 2>saying in it. Of course, it was very much how
<v Speaker 2>Colgan that looked at the whole situation very carefully. Terry
<v Speaker 2>Funk stands Hanson convincing side the New Japan's deal, and
<v Speaker 2>where I stand, I mean, how Colgun stand He was
<v Speaker 2>always pretty political and very very wise about these things
<v Speaker 2>that he told New Japan that this is a deal
<v Speaker 2>I get from the other side. Terry Funk and Stan
<v Speaker 2>Hanson all Japan progresting. They want me to come over.
<v Speaker 2>What do you think, of course New Japan will give
<v Speaker 2>you a bigger deal.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, and they did. I'm trying to put myself on
<v Speaker 1>the head of a New Japan fan in nineteen eighty.
<v Speaker 1>They're looking at Hull Cogan. I see, like the comic
<v Speaker 1>books we talked about he's talked about. Is the super
<v Speaker 1>h human almost like a comic book himself? Do they
<v Speaker 1>see him as like more than a man? Do they
<v Speaker 1>see you know what I mean? Do they see him
<v Speaker 1>as almost a mythical figure the fans? Or or is
<v Speaker 1>he just not just a wrestler?
<v Speaker 2>It was a young American wrestler becoming superstar right before
<v Speaker 2>your eyes. Yes, that's more like it. It's not like superhuman.
<v Speaker 2>It's the more like you start coming over making three
<v Speaker 2>or four tours a year, you know, freaking tours in Japan.
<v Speaker 2>This guy is getting good and start wearing kimono gown. Yes,
<v Speaker 2>and that's when you started wearing black trunks like New
<v Speaker 2>Japan have Chian writing on it. Whoa mingling, you know
<v Speaker 2>part that he's really adopting and uh yeah, and May
<v Speaker 2>May eighty two tour. Uh they start the stands gone
<v Speaker 2>eighty two and stands that Alkman is becoming more and
<v Speaker 2>more regular with New Japan. And May of eighty two, Inoki,
<v Speaker 2>i mean her got hurt and took the whole tour off,
<v Speaker 2>you know, the one some you know, four five week
<v Speaker 2>tour without Inoki. That's impossible, right right, Yeah, you think
<v Speaker 2>that's why he you know, how Cogan joined Japanese team,
<v Speaker 2>made the tag team again, you know, made the tag
<v Speaker 2>team and trio with people like Sayaka Gucci and and
<v Speaker 2>that's Mi Fujinami. And the final tour of this made tour,
<v Speaker 2>he had a very single, you know, very important single
<v Speaker 2>match how Colgan against Abdua the Butcher. Yes, very bad.
<v Speaker 2>That will make Holgan a complete babyface.
<v Speaker 1>Looking so looking forward to getting to that when we
<v Speaker 1>watched that thing, because you can very clear that that
<v Speaker 1>is that blood bath is a huge match for for houlk.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that was the first night he had a
<v Speaker 2>single match main event in Japan for the first time.
<v Speaker 2>Got it all right, and they had to run the
<v Speaker 2>tour without you, you know, get hurt. You know the
<v Speaker 2>must got hurt, and uh who you're gonna put it
<v Speaker 2>on the top. It's a big old sock of it,
<v Speaker 2>you know. The final night of the tour, so smart,
<v Speaker 2>baby face. How Cogan going up against Abdu the Butcher
<v Speaker 2>of course, big juice. And when you go back and
<v Speaker 2>watch that video finage, he how cold I was doing
<v Speaker 2>Hawk up. You know that abduor the Butcher giving you
<v Speaker 2>this forun object forehead and charater thrust to your you know,
<v Speaker 2>to your throat and all these pounding and that you know,
<v Speaker 2>the big finish of Abdu the Butcher running across the
<v Speaker 2>ring and give you this flying, super heavy elbow drop. Right,
<v Speaker 2>how Hogan kicks out, you know what I'm saying. That's
<v Speaker 2>huge and then the Abdor the Butcher still start, you know,
<v Speaker 2>still pounding. How Cogan's forehead, big juice everything, how Hogan
<v Speaker 2>it might be the very first well not the first time,
<v Speaker 2>because he was in the working a w A at
<v Speaker 2>the time Minnesota. Yeah, and how the motif of how
<v Speaker 2>Ca up was like a Varon von Rashki thing, you know,
<v Speaker 2>Varski not selling and you know, stop getting up from that.
<v Speaker 2>You know he was pounding that. The whole thing vary
<v Speaker 2>being baby hitsing.
<v Speaker 1>It's amazing, yeah, all time.
<v Speaker 2>But he switched that motion into how Cup. You know,
<v Speaker 2>abdor the bunchets keep pounding, you know how Cogan's forehead,
<v Speaker 2>how Cogan started getting up all mad, getting excited. You know.
<v Speaker 2>Then it's five years later, you big boots to the
<v Speaker 2>but that the haw Cup part was already created.
<v Speaker 1>Then it was created on Rashky for seeing Rashki in
<v Speaker 1>a wa.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but this was complete with Abdulla the Butcher match.
<v Speaker 2>He really huwke up.
<v Speaker 1>I can't wait to watch that.
<v Speaker 2>Communicating with the audience.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I love it.
<v Speaker 2>The big huge babyface was born that night. Yes, yeah,
<v Speaker 2>with the Butcher was almost forgotten history, that Abdulla, the
<v Speaker 2>Butcher of all people, had his hands on it in
<v Speaker 2>the process.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, wow, I can't wait.
<v Speaker 2>How cold Until twenty years later he always talked about
<v Speaker 2>the Abdulla the Butcher match, How important that was? Yeah?
<v Speaker 1>How about Hiro Matsuda was was it understood in Japan?
<v Speaker 1>This whole story of him breaking hopes like in Florida.
<v Speaker 1>What did the Japanese understand about.
<v Speaker 2>The broken eggs. It was not a part of it.
<v Speaker 1>It was not what was the story to the Japanese
<v Speaker 1>you know.
<v Speaker 2>Actually it's how the coach Shiro Matsda is just as
<v Speaker 2>miss in a mysterious as he is in America, because
<v Speaker 2>you know what, there is no such thing as hero
<v Speaker 2>much the wrestling school, you know what I'm saying. He
<v Speaker 2>was working in nw A Florida, Tampa office. How Corgan
<v Speaker 2>shows up that the bass player in the local band
<v Speaker 2>he wanted to be a wrestler. Of course, you know,
<v Speaker 2>look at him and take him back in the back
<v Speaker 2>of the back of the building with whether they had
<v Speaker 2>the wrestling ring and give him double wrist tracking, armlock
<v Speaker 2>and all. And most guys don't come back. One came
<v Speaker 2>back very next day. Can we do this again? That's
<v Speaker 2>okay then, and then, you know, much as I said,
<v Speaker 2>we can train this guy actually the same way, same
<v Speaker 2>way here, much as the treaty say, people like Paul Arnedolf,
<v Speaker 2>p Arndolf had to get in the ring with people
<v Speaker 2>like Bob Roop, you know, Jack Risco, the I mean,
<v Speaker 2>real wrestlers, and see how you last five minutes in
<v Speaker 2>the ring with these people.
<v Speaker 1>This is a small, small detail but why do you
<v Speaker 1>think in Japan it was the shoulder of the arm
<v Speaker 1>lock and in America was the.
<v Speaker 2>Leg that got broken. I have no idea.
<v Speaker 5>Fascinating you know, also wrestlers coming in, you know, to
<v Speaker 5>be wanted to be a wrestler, or or some some
<v Speaker 5>some wanna be think you know, they're better than existing wrestlers.
<v Speaker 2>Of course they'll hurt you, yeah, you know. Yeah, but
<v Speaker 2>Inbrup of course will hurt you.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that was part of his.
<v Speaker 2>But I think breaking leg thing came from that two
<v Speaker 2>three hundred Hindu squad. He made holdan you know, he
<v Speaker 2>almost to make him do it.
<v Speaker 1>I see. It's like sure, yeah, that that's squad.
<v Speaker 2>You know.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because the comic and the comic book I was
<v Speaker 1>mentioning does illustrate him training under Hiramatsu. That's like a biography,
<v Speaker 1>and it shows how hurting.
<v Speaker 2>Because you are a comic book, of course.
<v Speaker 1>No, of course it's a comic book. But but to
<v Speaker 1>your point, it resonated with me because in the comic book,
<v Speaker 1>for you know, as fictionalized as it might be, it's
<v Speaker 1>the shoulder that gets hurt. It's not the leg as
<v Speaker 1>they depict what happened all those years ago in Florida.
<v Speaker 2>Also, when you try to stop these wannabes, you know,
<v Speaker 2>it's usually armlock, usually on the map, and do anything
<v Speaker 2>about it.
<v Speaker 1>Daniel Peter Kirk angles.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, dis okay, your shoulder quit quit. But how cool
<v Speaker 2>what happened to us? He came back very next day.
<v Speaker 2>Let's train again. This guy might have it, might have it? Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>so when because yeah, he know, Mu's the only trained
<v Speaker 2>like Prospect. You know, he trained Paul or Off a
<v Speaker 2>little bit later, people like Luga and Ron Simmons, you know, yep,
<v Speaker 2>ed Gantner, this big guy who they can do something about.
<v Speaker 1>Did Japanese fans have a view that Hulk was limited
<v Speaker 1>in the ring like they would view him in America
<v Speaker 1>in the eighties, that, you know, compared to a Ric Flair. No, okay,
<v Speaker 1>that's interesting to me because the Japanese fans have this
<v Speaker 1>really high standard for what looks like a good match,
<v Speaker 1>and Hogan was able to do that right, Yeah, in
<v Speaker 1>Japan he did. Yeah, can you talk about that.
<v Speaker 2>Single match after single match against Snocchi, you know you
<v Speaker 2>wanted to put him over, you know, yeah, that guy
<v Speaker 2>really had it. I mean, he's so misunderstood that what
<v Speaker 2>you see is like we talked about you. Three punches
<v Speaker 2>and big boot to the leg drop that's all he did.
<v Speaker 2>But in Japan he had wrestling match after wrestling match,
<v Speaker 2>night after night after night, three four tours a year.
<v Speaker 2>Every night he wrestled. Yeah, where he has no promo,
<v Speaker 2>no big storyline. You just go in there and have
<v Speaker 2>the people don't speak English.
<v Speaker 1>And he's able to get over just on his wrestling.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, and also have a make attractive with Japanese
<v Speaker 2>wrestlers and communicate.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, wrestling podcast. He's an lapsed fan wrestling podcast with
<v Speaker 1>Jack and Carnaco and JP soo. Yeah, how does that work?
<v Speaker 1>How do Americans in Japanese communicate in the ring if
<v Speaker 1>they don't speak the same language.
<v Speaker 2>Uh, wrestlers have language? Yeah, one one DOTC the you
<v Speaker 2>know drop down that the international that Yeah, they got that.
<v Speaker 2>And also they watch each each other the match you
<v Speaker 2>can almost call in the ring, like almost intuitive, like
<v Speaker 2>today's wrestlers don't do it.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, Yeah, that's why it's such a mystery, perhaps because
<v Speaker 1>it's so different now. So what was when Hogan came in?
<v Speaker 1>What was the understanding about what he was like in America?
<v Speaker 1>Did they know about Sterling Golden Do they know about
<v Speaker 1>Terry the Hoak Boulder? Where do they think he can?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? How Cogan always hel Cogan?
<v Speaker 1>Yes, okay, yep.
<v Speaker 2>And also yeah, magazine reading audience, you know, like a
<v Speaker 2>kind of kind of type of wrestling fan that reads
<v Speaker 2>all the other magazine back to back, or even into eighties,
<v Speaker 2>some most serious wressing fans started reading Observer, you know. Yeah, yeah,
<v Speaker 2>but when you're on network television every week, you are
<v Speaker 2>dealing with more general audience. Hall Colgan's on TV. Oh yeah,
<v Speaker 2>he's a star. And again he carried himself like superstar,
<v Speaker 2>acted like a superstar, and you know media not just
<v Speaker 2>you know, but comic book part. But he had an
<v Speaker 2>album out yeah, playing bass, Yeah yeah yeah. He a
<v Speaker 2>little bit later he was in two or three different commercials,
<v Speaker 2>you know, like air conditioning commercial and the other commercial
<v Speaker 2>thing and new Japan stuff, producing his merchandise in Japan. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>and it's not like two days March. It was rare
<v Speaker 2>to have your own gimmick, you know, they're selling things
<v Speaker 2>for you. Yea. And being in the Japanese team was
<v Speaker 2>really good too, because Stan Hanson, as popular as he was,
<v Speaker 2>always American side. Yes, under the giant, great, huge, biggest superstar,
<v Speaker 2>but he only comes in maybe like a twice a year,
<v Speaker 2>one week at a time, you know, And how Hogan
<v Speaker 2>looks like he would come in three or four times
<v Speaker 2>a year and just like he's always there.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, no, yesh. Yeah, that's a great, great observation because
<v Speaker 1>he does. He puts in a lot of time in
<v Speaker 1>Japan in eighty eighty one, eighty two, what about the
<v Speaker 1>eighty five five the ax bomber that comes from the Lariat, right, mm.
<v Speaker 2>Hmm, closer, Yeah, I got Stan Hansen, so it was
<v Speaker 2>he obviously took place the Stan left Hogan, you know,
<v Speaker 2>just stood there, you know, and then this is his place.
<v Speaker 2>And also nineteen eighty two Madison Scrgan tag Team, the
<v Speaker 2>second annual Hulk, Hogan and Enoki teamed up eighty two
<v Speaker 2>and eighty three two years in a row. Hogan was
<v Speaker 2>the winner of the tag team tournament. That made him
<v Speaker 2>be huge.
<v Speaker 1>Oh that that's that's unbelievable.
<v Speaker 2>And eighty three was also the Rocky three movie was filmed.
<v Speaker 2>That's right.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, so on the period another it was Hogan's
<v Speaker 1>On the Pacific Grim podcast, you talked about how when
<v Speaker 1>Hogan was in Japan. After the match, he'd call you
<v Speaker 1>up to the hotel and you guys would just talk
<v Speaker 1>wrestling for hours, right, Well, yeah.
<v Speaker 2>Because what did they think about it? What did they
<v Speaker 2>think about it? He read it and he saw the audience,
<v Speaker 2>but he wanted to know how Japanese audience really, you know,
<v Speaker 2>thought about it. You know, was that good? Was it good?
<v Speaker 2>Was it bad? Was it good? The timing good? A
<v Speaker 2>lot of things.
<v Speaker 1>So he would so you guys would talk mostly about
<v Speaker 1>his match, or would you talk about everything going on
<v Speaker 1>in New Japan?
<v Speaker 2>What gets over in Japan? What doesn't? Yeah?
<v Speaker 1>What would you tell him? What would you tell what
<v Speaker 1>would you encourage him to do more or less of.
<v Speaker 2>Uh, It's not like I'm you know, giving advice or anything.
<v Speaker 2>We sat around and talked, you know, because was it
<v Speaker 2>What else can we talk about? Yes, of course. And
<v Speaker 2>at the time, see, schedules was so tight, like in
<v Speaker 2>eighty two three that vern Gania wanted him in every
<v Speaker 2>big city, not just Mineapolis simple, but the Chicago, the Winnipeg,
<v Speaker 2>the Green Bay, Wisconsin all the way to like a
<v Speaker 2>Denver Clada. Sometimes San Francisco, Awa was kind of big,
<v Speaker 2>you know, And one summer he had a weak tour
<v Speaker 2>started in Japan, he had to fly back to San
<v Speaker 2>Francisco to have Nicoacoingco title match, you know, and then
<v Speaker 2>stayed there for two days, came right back to New Japan,
<v Speaker 2>you know, the same week, and finished the tour. Oh god,
<v Speaker 2>Verna already announced it and the title match in main events.
<v Speaker 2>I had to go back. He did that, I mean
<v Speaker 2>just but he was winning. That's like almost like this
<v Speaker 2>is what we will what he'll be doing in his
<v Speaker 2>very you know, peak year of ww champion run. You know,
<v Speaker 2>I mean like a schedules, there's a flying and you know,
<v Speaker 2>long distance and hotel room, hotel.
<v Speaker 1>It sounds like it sounds like he was living that
<v Speaker 1>lifestyle in the a w A New Japan day as
<v Speaker 1>well before he was ready to be WWF champion.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for that reason.
<v Speaker 2>No, so actually I believe he media wanted to be
<v Speaker 2>a WA champion too. Yeah, you know, to run the
<v Speaker 2>whole pretty big, like I said, San Francisco, Denver, Colorado,
<v Speaker 2>Las Vegas, you know, Nebraska, Minneapolis, Saint Paul, Chicago, Winnipeg
<v Speaker 2>is wait a minute, that's just as big as n
<v Speaker 2>WA champion would do.
<v Speaker 1>That's right, you know and uh, and he was ready
<v Speaker 1>for that, wouldn't let him?
<v Speaker 2>No.
<v Speaker 1>No, I mean that's what a story that, that whole
<v Speaker 1>thing is.
<v Speaker 2>Uh.
<v Speaker 1>But when it comes to, you know, interacting with Hulk
<v Speaker 1>as you did. You've mentioned this already, which I think
<v Speaker 1>is so fascinating. You went to a university in Minnesota,
<v Speaker 1>is that right? Because you had heard about Minnesota? Right,
<v Speaker 1>is a wrestling place, of course, wrestling. That's so cool.
<v Speaker 2>Lifelong wrestling fan.
<v Speaker 1>Did you speak English before you went there?
<v Speaker 2>Not as much?
<v Speaker 1>I was seventeen, yeah, seventeen, Okay.
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, Actually I was exchanged student twelfth grade when I
<v Speaker 6>was seventeen ninety seventy nine, went to Cooper the High
<v Speaker 6>School in Minneapolis, and then decided I'm going college here.
<v Speaker 2>So another five years. Oh, I stayed in Minneapolis and
<v Speaker 2>in the first very first wrestling match at Minneapolis the
<v Speaker 2>auditorium was awa a Ward Heavy with title match Nick
<v Speaker 2>Waking against Greg Gania.
<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, it's a remember that's so cool. So
<v Speaker 1>there you are, and that that that obviously helps with
<v Speaker 1>you in Hulk, right, because he ends up working for
<v Speaker 1>Verne and he's he's based out of there, and and
<v Speaker 1>you actually.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he lived in Bloomington and in the townhouse in
<v Speaker 2>eighty three, Linda was already there. Yeah, yeah, I want
<v Speaker 2>to try it. He was doing the double tour here,
<v Speaker 2>you know, half the time in aw half the time
<v Speaker 2>in Japan. So he come over and take pictures. So
<v Speaker 2>I went to take picture at his Bloomington townhouse and
<v Speaker 2>this was a really good good you know, so it
<v Speaker 2>was Yeah, he trusted me that, you know, this stuff
<v Speaker 2>will get printed before I get there kind of thing.
<v Speaker 1>So so glad you mentioned that, because I'm gonna share
<v Speaker 1>a screen with you and you tell me if this
<v Speaker 1>is what you're talking about. This is uh, let's see,
<v Speaker 1>this is something this this is the tribute mag but
<v Speaker 1>this isn't. This isn't the one. This has some pictures
<v Speaker 1>of him as a as a youngster, but the one
<v Speaker 1>I'm looking for of course recent yeah, yeah, that's upon
<v Speaker 1>his his passing, they came out with a tribute. But
<v Speaker 1>this is the one. This is the one I think
<v Speaker 1>you shot. Tell me if these are the pictures you're
<v Speaker 1>talking about? Right, where does this hulk at home.
<v Speaker 2>Right there? Holding that's mine? Yeah, that's my amazing And
<v Speaker 2>also that the one he's holding aw a belt in
<v Speaker 2>the ring.
<v Speaker 1>That's yours too. Yeah, you took that in Minneapolis a
<v Speaker 1>weird Yes, he's right there or eating food there, and
<v Speaker 1>we see him at his gym. This is so great
<v Speaker 1>because we talked about this on the show for mean,
<v Speaker 1>what this photo. She was about to be able to
<v Speaker 1>get the person that took the pictures. Tell us all
<v Speaker 1>about how this happened.
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I said that at sant Pacivic said that he
<v Speaker 2>gave me his phone number. Don't give it to anybody,
<v Speaker 2>you know. Yeah. Then I called next morning, can we
<v Speaker 2>do the home shot? Come on over and it gave
<v Speaker 2>me direction before not car navigation system was you know GPS.
<v Speaker 2>I used what street and what county year old in
<v Speaker 2>this and yeah, I found the house and he he
<v Speaker 2>knew I couldn't find that house because he's in the
<v Speaker 2>middle of nowhere, you know. And then he walked up
<v Speaker 2>to the old County Road and he waved you know.
<v Speaker 2>Then oh yeah, yeah, he said great, you know, and
<v Speaker 2>then invited me over into his house. We spent afternoon there. Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>Why was there an appetite in Japan for this kind
<v Speaker 1>of coverage seeing a guy at home like this?
<v Speaker 2>Oh? Because I did that? Was like people like Nick
<v Speaker 2>Backwin called jumping Jim Brunzel, Jesse Ventor, yeah, he I
<v Speaker 2>guess Japanese magazine always want more than just matches. Yes,
<v Speaker 2>and in depth interview. I mean nothing against Bill After,
<v Speaker 2>but American magazine.
<v Speaker 1>That you would never you would never see this in
<v Speaker 1>an after Mac in the in the seventies.
<v Speaker 2>Japanese wrestling magazine is very serious about it and read it.
<v Speaker 2>Very serious about it and knowledgeable. Yes, yes it was
<v Speaker 2>since threeky doozen days. Babocchi is all covered like real
<v Speaker 2>big deal, and I was, Yeah, I consider myself very
<v Speaker 2>lucky I was able to go to Nick Baccoin's house.
<v Speaker 2>You know, even people like Jesse vent was actually Jesse
<v Speaker 2>Ventor and adriandonis the East West connection, right?
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?
<v Speaker 2>Can you believe that Jesse Ventor and ed Dan donas
<v Speaker 2>the youngest two youngest wrestler in the aw A dressing room,
<v Speaker 2>the youngest Verne Gun Yeah, the crusher, the mad do
<v Speaker 2>you know what I'm saying?
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, scrap iron.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and then young Jesse Venture and Adrian Don. He said,
<v Speaker 2>come on over here, you sit here. They're friendly.
<v Speaker 1>That's great. Now, did did you ask Hulk to do
<v Speaker 1>at home photo shoot or did he suggest it? How
<v Speaker 1>did that come about?
<v Speaker 2>Uh? I remember I think when he came, I mean
<v Speaker 2>he he when he gave me his new home phone
<v Speaker 2>number for which he had to change a couple of times,
<v Speaker 2>gave me phone number you call next day, you know,
<v Speaker 2>and uh probably I said, can I come over to
<v Speaker 2>do the photos? And then he said come on over
<v Speaker 2>what day? I'll be here on Wednesday? This and that
<v Speaker 2>he went there right away.
<v Speaker 1>What was his house like? What was it like walking around?
<v Speaker 2>This was for him? He was pretty small townhouse. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>compared to the house she'll be buying in.
<v Speaker 1>Tampa, of course. Yeah, the palace you would build. What
<v Speaker 1>was Linda like?
<v Speaker 2>Friendly? Very friendly?
<v Speaker 1>Friendly?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Yeah?
<v Speaker 1>Were they? Do you remember his his ex fiance Donna.
<v Speaker 1>I saw pictures in the Japanese magazines of Hogan with.
<v Speaker 2>Donna from California.
<v Speaker 1>Well, Linda was from California, Donna was from Tampa. Donald
<v Speaker 1>was from Tampa. Yes, and he yeah, you get them
<v Speaker 1>switch they look they look very similar for what it's worth,
<v Speaker 1>But I've seen photos that have that have appeared in
<v Speaker 1>Japanese magazines where he was waiting.
<v Speaker 2>Linda was able to control him better than the other one.
<v Speaker 1>Is that what it comes down to, yeah, we always joke.
<v Speaker 2>She's a strict one. See a lot of people said
<v Speaker 2>that thing about Linda, but she really made it out
<v Speaker 2>of rules that that hole followed forever.
<v Speaker 1>Did she come to Japan with him, Linda?
<v Speaker 2>She didn't. No, no, no, actually she didn't. Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I've never seen her in pictures. But but there
<v Speaker 1>were pictures of him and Donna in Japan at a
<v Speaker 1>certain point. Yeah, yeah, there was. There was a couple
<v Speaker 1>of pictures that I saw, and I regret that I
<v Speaker 1>don't know exactly where they came from as far as
<v Speaker 1>the the press there. But he's got you know, the
<v Speaker 1>Japanese character T shirt on and and it's one thing
<v Speaker 1>Hogan always said, you know, when he was interviewed about
<v Speaker 1>his days in Japan, he always says I was single.
<v Speaker 1>He always says that I was single, and I don't
<v Speaker 1>know if he was single. Doesn't sound I mean, I'm
<v Speaker 1>looking here, I don't know if he was single or not.
<v Speaker 1>But I know he had some stan Hanson talked about
<v Speaker 1>how he had some some lady friends in Japan that
<v Speaker 1>would show them around. So a lot going on there.
<v Speaker 2>Uh, I don't look at it anything dirty, but because oh, no, No,
<v Speaker 2>I didn't mean American wrestling. Come over, you know, you
<v Speaker 2>got you need a friend. I mean outside of wrestling.
<v Speaker 2>You know, there's a couple of three days off during
<v Speaker 2>the tour that Stan has always told other American wrestlers
<v Speaker 2>that you don't just you don't just stay in your
<v Speaker 2>hotel room. Get our hotel room. Experience Japan. That's what
<v Speaker 2>I get. Yeah, and then yeah, he was right, you know,
<v Speaker 2>he had three other doors.
<v Speaker 1>Well, when Hogan, when we very first saw Hogan in
<v Speaker 1>the ring, we noticed that in nineteen eighty in New Japan,
<v Speaker 1>he was kind of trying to do the handsome brody
<v Speaker 1>like walking around the ring like I'm gonna get somebody
<v Speaker 1>who was swinging that cape he used to wear at people.
<v Speaker 1>He's kind of doing like a brody attack the fans thing.
<v Speaker 1>For a short time. Yeah, it was very awkward. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if that was something that you remember,
<v Speaker 1>remember that period where he was trying to come off
<v Speaker 1>like a rampaging mad man.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and then that's why he was doing the bear hugs,
<v Speaker 2>that's right. Yeah, yeah, but he quickly though by watching
<v Speaker 2>everybody's matching. This is how they work in Japan, you know,
<v Speaker 2>And once you can work that non verbal, you know,
<v Speaker 2>intuitive wrestling match that you actually get better, you know,
<v Speaker 2>and uh Rich, pretty soon you have single match against
<v Speaker 2>you know, and had how Colgan be the challenger and
<v Speaker 2>actually his old NWF title that did he hand picked
<v Speaker 2>haw Covid to be his tax Tim partner for the
<v Speaker 2>final you know, December Tact Team tournament. And yeah, so
<v Speaker 2>he was really obviously climbing climbing up the superstar ladders,
<v Speaker 2>and Japanese fans really like somebody becoming superstar writing from
<v Speaker 2>your eyes right.
<v Speaker 1>Right, you remember before they were and you watch it happen.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, that kind of like you're based you know,
<v Speaker 2>major League Baseball player playing in Japan. Yeah, kind of
<v Speaker 2>like that. And also three years in making that, the
<v Speaker 2>Japanese fans really believed this Anthony I w GP project
<v Speaker 2>International Resting Grand People. Today's fans just no iw GP
<v Speaker 2>as a heavyweight title that you defend the title, you know,
<v Speaker 2>like in Japan's top title. But iw GP was actually
<v Speaker 2>spring annual tournament for five year period that just you know,
<v Speaker 2>in order to start this iw GP in National rest
<v Speaker 2>and Grand Prix thing, they had the longest storyline Inoki
<v Speaker 2>comes in and relink, you know, give up, relinquish his
<v Speaker 2>NWF title. Tiger Chising comes in and you know, give
<v Speaker 2>up his agent title, Saka Gucci giving up his North
<v Speaker 2>American title, and everybody's title will be back, you know,
<v Speaker 2>then nobody has the title and IWGP will be the
<v Speaker 2>only you know, world championship ever. And we believed it,
<v Speaker 2>you know, amazing and very first nineteen eighty three, first
<v Speaker 2>in Agio IWGP tournament final was Antonioki against uprising Hal Cogan.
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely no under the giant. Yeah, and you would think
<v Speaker 2>in Oki will win isw GP and becoming you know,
<v Speaker 2>the final of the top of the world thing, but
<v Speaker 2>that would give you the signal and the movie, you know,
<v Speaker 2>like the end, right.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, and that's what happened.
<v Speaker 2>Smart How Cogan beat him? How Cogan beat in Oki
<v Speaker 2>for the first you know, first time to become the
<v Speaker 2>first i w GP champion, you know, and uh wow,
<v Speaker 2>big surprise is to be continued.
<v Speaker 1>How did you as a fan see that match? Was
<v Speaker 1>it on TV?
<v Speaker 2>Actually it's another very very mysterious part that you know,
<v Speaker 2>you know, you know, he was knocked out of the
<v Speaker 2>ring by this bumber and hit his head and yeah,
<v Speaker 2>and then I got got carried by you know, ambulance,
<v Speaker 2>and the evening News actually covered there was an accident
<v Speaker 2>in resting show tonight. You know, in Oki had a
<v Speaker 2>severe concussion, was you know, rushed to the hospital's ambulance.
<v Speaker 2>You know, all these things, right, And now that's forty
<v Speaker 2>forty plus years later that a lot of things come
<v Speaker 2>out that when you see go back and watch this
<v Speaker 2>video again. How Colgan did not know the finish.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he thought he really hurt anok you.
<v Speaker 2>Know, and of all people, vice president and the booker
<v Speaker 2>saaka Gucci, you know, you know, Lieutenant. Yes, he wasn't informed.
<v Speaker 1>He wasn't informed. No, no, And I've seen Fuji Fujiwara
<v Speaker 1>say that he was skeptical because he couldn't you know,
<v Speaker 1>he he didn't really believe that Anoki was really hurt.
<v Speaker 1>But it seemed like.
<v Speaker 2>Oh, you know, he didn't even hit ahead his head.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, that that's that's a platiful.
<v Speaker 2>By not telling anybody about it or the you know,
<v Speaker 2>keep your enemy crosso or keep your friends, I don't
<v Speaker 2>know the friends. Yeah, getchi Inoki did it all by
<v Speaker 2>himself that much, we know, letting it let no one in.
<v Speaker 2>But then again twenty years after that, how cog Holgan
<v Speaker 2>starts saying, no, I was on it.
<v Speaker 1>I was in of course. Yeah, well well see, I'll
<v Speaker 1>tell you though, he did learn well because he did
<v Speaker 1>the same thing to undertake her that that Survivor series
<v Speaker 1>where he had Undertaker convinced that he hurt him for
<v Speaker 1>years and he didn't hurt him. It's the same thing, right.
<v Speaker 2>So it's like not telling your friend is the best
<v Speaker 2>way to make it work.
<v Speaker 1>Right, because if he didn't tell me, it's got so
<v Speaker 1>much for me.
<v Speaker 2>Pantel. You know that even after he retired. You know,
<v Speaker 2>if I come back to Japan to wrestle one more match,
<v Speaker 2>will you know he's retired. Why wouldn't he? Youki was
<v Speaker 2>one of the very few wrestlers who never came back retirement.
<v Speaker 1>Yes he didn't ninety eight.
<v Speaker 2>You know what I'm saying. When he did something in
<v Speaker 2>the ring, he had his T shirt on. Make sure
<v Speaker 2>that he never took off his shirt. You know, the
<v Speaker 2>guy's retired dresser, right, And Hogan realized that Inoki can't
<v Speaker 2>his take his take his shirt off anymore, that he
<v Speaker 2>has too much pride and then doesn't even look at
<v Speaker 2>a wrestler anymore. Yes, you know Hogan if how Coga
<v Speaker 2>wants to do one more match or he's gonna pump up,
<v Speaker 2>you know what I'm saying. Absolutely, or even like two
<v Speaker 2>years ago, was you know this President Trump's Republican campaign
<v Speaker 2>when he didn't rip the two shirt off, he did
<v Speaker 2>look like still look like how Cogan.
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, he never stopped looking like Cogan. That that
<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighty.
<v Speaker 2>You know that was their extension at the end.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we got that sense. Yeah, yeah he did. He
<v Speaker 1>admitted to that later that eighty three IWGP final. Was
<v Speaker 1>that live on television?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?
<v Speaker 1>Oh so were you watching?
<v Speaker 2>No, no, no, I was in Minnesota eighty three.
<v Speaker 1>Oh that's right, I'm sorry, okay.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, but that was such a big thing.
<v Speaker 1>Such a big thing.
<v Speaker 2>And actually they ran angle back in Minnesota some of
<v Speaker 2>eighty three mass societal giving trophy to how Cogan in
<v Speaker 2>aw a ring then start beating in how Colgan with
<v Speaker 2>the trophy. So that's like almost like you know, spin
<v Speaker 2>off storyline in Awa playing. And then Massa Sato was
<v Speaker 2>programmed for the whole summer.
<v Speaker 1>We talked about the shoot you did in Bloomington at
<v Speaker 1>his at his townhouse. Did you also talk to his
<v Speaker 1>mother and get some of those childhood photos that we've
<v Speaker 1>seen publish in Japanese magazine.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that was some of eighty eighty eighty one, eighty two. Yeah. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>how I came back to summer and I worked for
<v Speaker 2>Wrestling Magazine or the for the for three months, and
<v Speaker 2>then I did in a big interview. It was Updure
<v Speaker 2>the Butcher switching from Mojapan to New Japan, and yeah,
<v Speaker 2>I had a whole summer experience being young young puppy
<v Speaker 2>ated it and uh we called Ruth Bullair Ruth that
<v Speaker 2>that to get his childhood photos. Yeah, it's like almost
<v Speaker 2>like a like a stage mom, you.
<v Speaker 1>Know stage mom. Yeah I saw that.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, she really likes it. You know, send the old
<v Speaker 2>kinds of picture is great.
<v Speaker 1>You know she sent him in the mail.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, oh wow, snail mail.
<v Speaker 1>Snail mail. That's increast. See I thought you were on.
<v Speaker 1>You went to Tampa to get him, okay?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, oh no, No, when I went to Tampa, I
<v Speaker 2>went to see car got got here. Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>Other things to do was what was Ruth nice? What
<v Speaker 1>was Ruth like to to deal with?
<v Speaker 2>Super nice? Super nice? Yeah? Yea some OBEEDI you on?
<v Speaker 2>She knew his son Terry would be even bigger, much bigger,
<v Speaker 2>you know, and in a three year period he became
<v Speaker 2>the biggest superstar in America, in the world.
<v Speaker 1>Did you were you involved at all or remember the
<v Speaker 1>uh the shoot Hogan did for Wei magazine, that Playboy
<v Speaker 1>magazine where he was with all the girls in bikinis
<v Speaker 1>and half naked girls. You ever seen I never saw
<v Speaker 1>that one. No, oh, man, that's a famous one.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. He Japanese magazine.
<v Speaker 1>No, no, it was it was American magazine. Yeah.
<v Speaker 2>He was very serious about, you know, things with me
<v Speaker 2>all the time. Actually, the final wrestling tour he had
<v Speaker 2>as a wrestler was like two thousand and three, right, Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>they they re revised, you know, revived the whole sequence.
<v Speaker 2>How you know how Colgan run across the ring and
<v Speaker 2>give Oxbama into the standing in its right, you know,
<v Speaker 2>the whole sequence, right, but he had no get.
<v Speaker 1>Up from it, right, which is a big, big spot.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, he wrestled the whole secrets of it.
<v Speaker 1>In nineteen eighty and that tour December, I think after
<v Speaker 1>the Tag fin the League finals, he wrestled Dusty Roads.
<v Speaker 1>Hogan did first first time I've ever I think the
<v Speaker 1>only time he ever wrestled Dusty one on one?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, what was Dusty's reputation with the Japanese fans? Um
<v Speaker 1>and Hogan kind of take over his spot?
<v Speaker 2>Dusty Rose and Antonio single match doesn't blend in that well,
<v Speaker 2>I think. I mean, you know, he too serious, right
<v Speaker 2>and to throw this Dusty you know right? Yeah, just
<v Speaker 2>doesn't click, you know what I'm saying. Yep, what Holgan
<v Speaker 2>Dusty Rose? Yes, surprising, But Bob Beckland and the steer
<v Speaker 2>Ros they did pretty well too.
<v Speaker 1>They did well too. Was was Dusty like the top
<v Speaker 1>American before Hogan came? Besides Stan Hansen?
<v Speaker 2>Uh? He was a type of type of supers the
<v Speaker 2>only comes in every other year, right for one week,
<v Speaker 2>for one weekly, it's three different, stay handsome, stay for
<v Speaker 2>the three weeks. Store every night, five weeks store every night.
<v Speaker 2>Comes in a couple, you know, a couple three four
<v Speaker 2>times a year. And he actually help programmed. Yes, whereas
<v Speaker 2>Dusty Rose Bob Becker come in and do their thing
<v Speaker 2>for like a week to ten days, they're gone like guests. Okay, disappears.
<v Speaker 1>Last couple of questions for you did did a Noki
<v Speaker 1>ever admit that the eighty three i w GP final
<v Speaker 1>was a work and that he wasn't hurt.
<v Speaker 2>Never did he took it the grave. He took it
<v Speaker 2>to grave and the grave I think. Yeah. And also,
<v Speaker 2>no interviews are brave enough to ask me was there
<v Speaker 2>a work? Sir? Yeah?
<v Speaker 1>What is that?
<v Speaker 2>Like?
<v Speaker 1>In Japan? Do the media not ask that kind of.
<v Speaker 2>It depends on the wrestlers. You know a lot of
<v Speaker 2>wrestlers get casual about it, like today's wrestlers. And you
<v Speaker 2>don't ask certain certain things to Riki Chochi. We know
<v Speaker 2>that nothing. You can't ask Akira Mayda. You don't ask
<v Speaker 2>that to Akimira fuji Ara. He'll kill you. You know
<v Speaker 2>what I'm saying. Then, ANTHONIOOKI always gave this aura about
<v Speaker 2>air about him. That's his I don't he doesn't know
<v Speaker 2>about other people's other wrestling. But what he did was
<v Speaker 2>always serious, right, right, convincing enough? Huh.
<v Speaker 1>I was never Yeah, that's the old line. I was
<v Speaker 1>never in a I was never in a worked fight.
<v Speaker 1>I don't know about anybody else, but I I certainly
<v Speaker 1>wasn't real.
<v Speaker 2>Oh like bid Robinson in my days, it was all real.
<v Speaker 1>Well, let me let me ask you then, for me.
<v Speaker 1>If if Anocchi never admitted it, then how do we
<v Speaker 1>know he wasn't actually hurt in eighty three he was
<v Speaker 1>already hurt then before the match.
<v Speaker 2>Well, he was brought to hospital. A lot of things
<v Speaker 2>was wrong with.
<v Speaker 1>His body that he could point to to get and admitted.
<v Speaker 2>And what the five seven seven eight concussions? He was
<v Speaker 2>never treated, right, you know? And uh, he forgot a
<v Speaker 2>lot of things. Yeah yeah, and uh yeah, and uh do.
<v Speaker 1>You remember who the first person was to say that
<v Speaker 1>that was a work?
<v Speaker 2>It was the gathering that that A few things that
<v Speaker 2>Sakaguci said afterwards, a few things other wrestlers said about
<v Speaker 2>other things, and young wrestlers you know around New Japan
<v Speaker 2>ring how he was treated, but he was rushed to
<v Speaker 2>hospital and some you know, one or two young wrestlers
<v Speaker 2>stayed in the hospital lobby, you know, just in case
<v Speaker 2>something serious happens. And these are the bits and faces,
<v Speaker 2>like a pieces of puzzle that we put together for
<v Speaker 2>the past forty years.
<v Speaker 1>That's amazing. What a story. And when do you think
<v Speaker 1>Hulk found out it was a work?
<v Speaker 2>Uh? Over the years, over.
<v Speaker 1>The year, and not right away. He came back to
<v Speaker 1>Japan thinking he really hurt him that night.
<v Speaker 2>He thought it was the start, you know, like a
<v Speaker 2>double guessing about it. But it was time for him
<v Speaker 2>to go home too. And what was interesting was that
<v Speaker 2>this eighty three first in Agio IWGP Championship tournament final
<v Speaker 2>was June of a d three, right June of ady three.
<v Speaker 2>Six months later he was WWF champion.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yes he was.
<v Speaker 2>So it was like a different era, you know, completely different.
<v Speaker 2>After he became WWS champion, he kept his schedules, was
<v Speaker 2>New Japan for another year, but the Vincebookman didn't like it,
<v Speaker 2>you know. And even after WrestleMania One, which was May
<v Speaker 2>March thirty first of eighty five, two weeks after that,
<v Speaker 2>he was in Japan defending the title, but Vince mcman said,
<v Speaker 2>no more Japan, no more Japan, and then none of the
<v Speaker 2>American wrestlers, Adrian Adon is that just stop coming. You know.
<v Speaker 2>That's why New Japan needed to find another source like
<v Speaker 2>Van Erics, Bill Watts, you know, to supply American talent,
<v Speaker 2>people like mad Dog Badsawyer who wanted to come in
<v Speaker 2>full time on his own kind of thing. So and yeah,
<v Speaker 2>please go ahead, because I still think how Cogan was
<v Speaker 2>very misunderstood until the end. You know about the racist comment,
<v Speaker 2>theres no excuse, you know, but the circumstance wasn't never
<v Speaker 2>fully explained. You know, his you know daughter Brooke, you know,
<v Speaker 2>was assaulted, you know by you know, some of the
<v Speaker 2>circumstance was never explained fully. And also he wasn't aware
<v Speaker 2>that he was taped and you never say that taped
<v Speaker 2>or not taped. But yeah, he so misunderstood that he's
<v Speaker 2>so self centered, yes, and no you know that that
<v Speaker 2>he only do things you know, interest best interested, Well,
<v Speaker 2>who didn't in wrestling? And actually he is very very
<v Speaker 2>friendly and made a lot of friends in Japan. That
<v Speaker 2>who he kept in touch with until the summer he died.
<v Speaker 1>Is that right?
<v Speaker 2>Who is he met?
<v Speaker 1>Who is he closest to?
<v Speaker 2>And his name is Sato? Yeah, Yoshi Sato. Hogan met
<v Speaker 2>Yoshi when Yoshi was fourteen, you know, fourteen years old,
<v Speaker 2>the type of wrestling fan, who's where you for wrestler
<v Speaker 2>at the hotel lobby? Yeah, and uh, one morning Yoshi
<v Speaker 2>was in hotel lobby waiting for Hogan to show up, right,
<v Speaker 2>and Hogan walks up to him and already know each other.
<v Speaker 2>What are you doing? This school day, you know this,
<v Speaker 2>go to school, didn't come back here. Oh it's like
<v Speaker 2>I skipped No, go to school, then come back after school.
<v Speaker 2>Now I'll meet you. Then after a few seconds later,
<v Speaker 2>Adrian and Donnis walk over. So you skipped school, come
<v Speaker 2>on over, and then they hang out.
<v Speaker 1>Adrian didn't care.
<v Speaker 2>That's great. But Hogan and Adrian were real good friends
<v Speaker 2>in Japan.
<v Speaker 1>You know, did ho was Hogan able to converse at
<v Speaker 1>all in Japanese with the fans? Could he talk a
<v Speaker 1>little bit of Japanese.
<v Speaker 2>A little bit?
<v Speaker 1>Yea, yeah, yeah, yeah, he picked up on it.
<v Speaker 2>And also he was trying to communicate. He was really
<v Speaker 2>friendly that he actually walked around the hotel lobby, walk
<v Speaker 2>out a hotel and then walked to Shinjiki station and
<v Speaker 2>go to stores with fans and hang out for afternoon.
<v Speaker 2>They have a cup of coffee and all these things. Yeah. Right,
<v Speaker 2>then this last summer, Hogan himself called Sato and when
<v Speaker 2>are you coming over? Every other summer Sato still went
<v Speaker 2>over there and stayed with Hogan for like a week
<v Speaker 2>for the summer. Yeah, and then Hogan, you know, called
<v Speaker 2>she said, well are you coming over? It's like we'll
<v Speaker 2>probably end up, end up summer saying no come over
<v Speaker 2>now he was, Yeah, Hogan was dying.
<v Speaker 1>Oh is that right? Looking back?
<v Speaker 2>It was okay, okay, I'm coming over tomorrow. And then
<v Speaker 2>he went over there, you know, spend time with the
<v Speaker 2>final final, two days with Hogan in July, then came back.
<v Speaker 2>Then two weeks later I found out, right, he's gone,
<v Speaker 2>then went back, you know, to funeral, funeral. He kept
<v Speaker 2>in touch with his old friends in Japan, you know.
<v Speaker 2>And then actually after well he retired that I'm actually
<v Speaker 2>having retirement match, right, and he walked away from ring
<v Speaker 2>and he still looked like, you know, Hogan. And actually
<v Speaker 2>Hogan came back to Japan probably two or three, three
<v Speaker 2>three times as a vacation.
<v Speaker 1>No really, yeah, yeah.
<v Speaker 2>One time One time was Brooke Hogan singing cz you
<v Speaker 2>know campaign thing, and another time was that he opened the
<v Speaker 2>WW Japan tour, you know, one year. But two or
<v Speaker 2>three other times he came back just for vacation with
<v Speaker 2>Nick Son Nick. Yeah, and they were into this Japanese
<v Speaker 2>Nissan GTR Japanese muscle car. Yes, yeah, that Nissan.
<v Speaker 1>You said that'sn't in America, Rightssan, Yeah, Nissan.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. But GTR is a legendary Japanese muscle car from
<v Speaker 2>the only existed between nineteen sixty ninety ninety seventy three.
<v Speaker 2>You can actually find mint condition gt R somewhere in Japan.
<v Speaker 2>It came over and bought it, you know, yeah, like
<v Speaker 2>a five speed muscle car. And yeah, he was into that.
<v Speaker 2>And also he wanted to have riyo sushi or something.
<v Speaker 1>Do you like sushi?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Yeah, yeah. He was really really friendly, you know,
<v Speaker 2>and he was pretty much what's theff Well, when you
<v Speaker 2>say relevant, you know, it's almost it's like not the
<v Speaker 2>sarcastic way. But he really stayed relevant because he he
<v Speaker 2>studied now Agawa, he knew about you know, Yoshihiro Takayama,
<v Speaker 2>you know who was on top at the time. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>I can't have a match with Ogawa and I can't
<v Speaker 2>have a match with Takayama. It was really interested, you know,
<v Speaker 2>because he's still studied like current Japanese wrestling scene.
<v Speaker 1>We're yeah, yeah, yeah, it was interesting.
<v Speaker 2>One more match, I can do it.
<v Speaker 1>He was always ready get in.
<v Speaker 2>Shape for the whole month, you know, ready for one match. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>do that. So he was he stayed relevant always, you know,
<v Speaker 2>asked about you know, how's Henoke doing? How's Henoke doing?
<v Speaker 2>He has so much respect? How about it? Actually learned
<v Speaker 2>learned you know by watching in Oki? How to you
<v Speaker 2>know he learned how to be a national babyface?
<v Speaker 1>How so we have to say more about that?
<v Speaker 2>Oh because you know, kay, night after night after night,
<v Speaker 2>you know, you know, Oki had this in a thirty
<v Speaker 2>day tour. Hogan stayed in Yoki's dressing room the entire
<v Speaker 2>time and watch how how he does and how he
<v Speaker 2>lay to the world and how to do the half
<v Speaker 2>shoot interview, you know, not resting interview, but newspaper guy
<v Speaker 2>come in and the actual reporters taking notes. Right, so
<v Speaker 2>it's like as if it's all real. It's real opening pretty,
<v Speaker 2>it gets blarry, It's all real, you know because Anthonyoki's
<v Speaker 2>Anthonyoke twenty four seven.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, you know, yeah, there's not a chance to see an.
<v Speaker 2>Really study, don you know, how to be like national lamp,
<v Speaker 2>you know, complete baby face twenty four seven that people
<v Speaker 2>believe in.
<v Speaker 1>That's amazing. I never thought about Antonio Noki being the
<v Speaker 1>guy he would have studied to figure out how to can.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, so influential, you know, yeah, and all if
<v Speaker 2>you walk out a hotel room. People coming, you know,
<v Speaker 2>not just photograph and take pictures, but they want to
<v Speaker 2>touch him like a Gandhi.
<v Speaker 1>How about I want to ask you one more ninety
<v Speaker 1>three when he came over with a belt. When ninety
<v Speaker 1>three he came over with WWF title, called it a toy?
<v Speaker 1>What was what was that all about? What was he
<v Speaker 1>trying to do there?
<v Speaker 2>I think it was a work because he you know
<v Speaker 2>that last last Vegas with the season last thing, he
<v Speaker 2>won the title from Cozuna and actually came back with
<v Speaker 2>the physical belt and he it was transitioned WWF into
<v Speaker 2>New Japan, New Japan eventually into w CW and actually
<v Speaker 2>he made a lot more money with WSW than he
<v Speaker 2>did with WWF at the time, you know. And it
<v Speaker 2>was that it was like one of the battle between
<v Speaker 2>actual battle between Vincent Hogan now because Vince trusted Hogan
<v Speaker 2>enough to give him championship built you know, you know,
<v Speaker 2>Brett hard Yosuna, Yokozuna to Hogan and Zna went back
<v Speaker 2>to w W for one one one last match to
<v Speaker 2>trap to Gozuna. But you needed this camera man, you know,
<v Speaker 2>flame angle. But it was the last night he worked,
<v Speaker 2>you know, and he knew he was gonna go to
<v Speaker 2>w CW was like a triple of you know, money there,
<v Speaker 2>and it was important to have that new Japan interview
<v Speaker 2>all over the world, I see, you know what I'm saying,
<v Speaker 2>Very political, right.
<v Speaker 1>Very political. Yeah, that was such.
<v Speaker 2>A society interviewing him.
<v Speaker 1>Society was doing it.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah with Mike, Yeah, that was he always you
<v Speaker 2>know between Okay, two thousand and three was another thing
<v Speaker 2>that he you know, transition period, the freelancing. How Cogan
<v Speaker 2>back to WWE, right to do WrestleMania, but he always
<v Speaker 2>plays Japan in between. Yeah, to be working in Japan.
<v Speaker 1>Japan was always there for him when you know, for
<v Speaker 1>a promoter of the United States. What got across it?
<v Speaker 2>Also, how Cogan was the very first American wrestler who
<v Speaker 2>made one hundred grand in one night in Japan?
<v Speaker 1>Is that right? Was that the channel Moudham?
<v Speaker 2>Great? Yeah, that night, Yeah, the Moda match one match though,
<v Speaker 2>one hundred grand, that's it, not gonna ask anything more.
<v Speaker 2>That's a lot at the time. Yeah, ninety three money,
<v Speaker 2>one hundred thousand a matchbelievable. Today's WrestleMania guys are making
<v Speaker 2>that much, you know.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, but back then it was just a different
<v Speaker 1>stratosphere of money altogether.
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, thirty years ago, one match.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's been terrific. This is so great. It's great
<v Speaker 1>to get this perspective from Japan. Let me ask you
<v Speaker 1>the last question until we talk again sometime. What what
<v Speaker 1>was the reaction in Japan to Hulk Hogan's death.
<v Speaker 2>Actually it was like real SuperStar's passing, really any huge
<v Speaker 2>movie star or major League baseball player or Hollywood doctor
<v Speaker 2>or rock star. Yeah, because every single network news actually
<v Speaker 2>carried it, real newspaper, Asahi Shimbun, that Yomiuri Shimbun, that
<v Speaker 2>the actual you know newspaper carries story. Yeah, amazing, And
<v Speaker 2>it treated every single talk show, every single single late
<v Speaker 2>night you know, the television covered a little bit the superstar,
<v Speaker 2>how Hogan has passed, we lost superstar. Then the footage
<v Speaker 2>was always in okay against Hogan's little clip.
<v Speaker 1>And for maybe three yeah.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, and also with yellow tights and maybe you
<v Speaker 2>know WW ten ten second clip and probably Ginami against
<v Speaker 2>you know Hogan from somewhere in the eighties, you know,
<v Speaker 2>like a few seconds of you know, yeah, yeah, it
<v Speaker 2>treated a huge news and also the December you know
<v Speaker 2>what happened in the twenty twenty five is then he
<v Speaker 2>was one of the news, you know, top ten news
<v Speaker 2>that we lost how Cogan. You know this year is
<v Speaker 2>you know who passed this year? Yeah, last year was impact.
<v Speaker 1>Well, Flimmy, thank you so much for taking us into
<v Speaker 1>what hul Coven meant to Japan. It was a pleasure
<v Speaker 1>to talk to you man. Thank you so much, Thank.
<v Speaker 2>You so much. And yeah, well let's do it again sometimes.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, that sounds wonderful. Bye, Filmy, so long from Tokyo.