School of Rock with Nina Corcoran

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Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in best start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Jamie, my name is Caitlin, and this is our podcast where we talk about the role of women and boy is it? I mean, girl is it? How was it planned? Was it planned? I don't know. I'm nervous about this episode because I've only rewatched the movie once. I've had yourself of an I p A. Do you remember the time where I didn't watch the movie at all? On admitte it weeks later the Matrix The Matrix episode, go back and listen if you want to hear some high level bullshit. I still haven't seen The Matrix to this day. Oh man, it's pretty good. You wouldn't like it. I pretended to not like it, and I felt like that was maybe at the right I felt like I wasn't gonna like it. My arm is covered. There's some sort of there's some creepy crawleys in my house and they're eating me up, and so every time I leave my house, I've been spraying like my entire floor in like bug poison, but they've evolved and they're I My whole forearm is covered in Okay, life finds a way. Don't eat this is our episode. Oh no, I'm going to keep bringing it back to Jurassic Park. I. Well, we were saying that today's movie is what you are to Jurassic Park, as today's movie is to me, and then I like it and you're like, that's fine. I'm ambivalent, will say right, I know, and our guests could not be more excited. Well, it's three against one because Aristotle also loves this movie. Aristotle was reciting lines with me. It was exciting. People love this movie and okay, so let's just get into it. The movie Today as a School of Rock, directed by Richard link Later two thousand and three, and our guest, I'm so excited. She's one of my best friends in the whole world. She is the music editor for a Dig Boston. She's written for pitch Fork asquoiir NPR. It's Nina Congrass. I just knocked over your ice cream, which is also on talking about school from I feel like we've probably eaten ice cream with disposable knives and talked to most School of Rock more than one time. I have like a very vivid memory of us being maybe a little bit intoxicated once or maybe sober. It could have gone either way, but we went to it two desk. He's because you wanted to. You wanted to check in on four square before you bought a pint of ven and Jerry's so that the time of Vena Jerry's would be free. I used to do that all worked. Where is this thing where you would get a discount code? For sure doesn't do it anymore. But we're right you checked in the most. You're the man and through the merits. So a lot of history on the cast today we're talking about School of Okay, well, let's first discuss our history of this movie. K When did you see this movie for the first time. I believe I saw it either right when it first came out in oh three or sometimes shortly after that. I don't know if I saw in theaters or not, but I only saw it that once until I then rewatched it the other day to prepare for this episode. You said you can only watch it in five minute chunks. Personally, I was triggered. I look mad, Max fury Ron, I think the better comperson say that movie. Do you just not like Jack Black? That only I found? Don't like it? Don't? Well? I mean, yeah, it's impossible. I certainly no, I really don't. I'm a wretched person with no heart. I thought I liked him, okay, up until rewatching this movie, and then I was like, I find him. Well, here's the thing. I like my comedy to be a little more subtle than he delivers. It's a Jack Black vehicle, and he's so subtle in his defense, it's a very nuanced performance. Okay, I can't argue with that. However, he's just never not mugging the fuck out of whatever scene he's in, and he's just like the shot of the eyebrow truly says it all, Like could you be leaning into this anymore? I still love it? But yeah, I saw it when it came out and then again and now I'm just like, yeah, I don't. I don't think I like this movie so a more accurate thing than Jurassic Park, which again I'm going to keep bringing up today is I don't care for this movie. You didn't care for Mad Max. You said you like Jurassic Park. Okay, I feel like that's a more appropriate comparison. I hated Bad Max and I hate Steampunks, and I was like, I was at Comic Con this weekend, and I was it was a real best of the spirit. A few casualties, but not as many as one would think. I first saw this movie in theaters memorably. I think I've told I've actually talked about this with you before. Because I grew up in Brockton, Massachusetts. My cousin and I went to see this movie with our aunt or her mom my aunt, and someone in the movie theater got stabbed in the foot. Sometime during the second act of School of Rocket. We all had to leave. I'd come back another day to see the end of School. We saw it from the beginning, but we didn't know how it ended for days, and we were and at the time like there was Google, but we were ten, we didn't really use it, so we were just like, I wonder if they win. I wonder if they can even go to the Battle of the Bit Because someone got stabbed in the foot and the movie Gunner was closed shortly after then, we had the VHS. I've seen this movie easily twenty times. It's like one of my favorites of all time. It's so good. That was your experience of the movie. I feel like I shouldn't list how many times I've seen it. Please, it's definitely over fifty. It's way maybe not incredible, probably, i'd hope so I can't stop. But my earliest memory is on a road trip and watched that movie, just only that movie, the whole trip, over and over. I watched it once and then I watched it with subtitles, and then I watched the director's cut, and then I watched the one with all the commentary of them talking and then which is really good. It is it's so because they're like all young talking about it and getting excited seeing themselves on the screen. Yeah, this movie it rules. It's so. It's so good. I mean that, right. There is four times in one car a lot of people. And I think that we were talking about before Nina got here, that I think that the age you were when this movie came out is critical to how you feel about the movie, because we were the exact right Aristotle was too. We were all ten or eleven when this movie came out and the movies about ten or eleven year olds starting a band with Jack Black, and that still sounds like and now it's like, maybe that's a little perverted, but at the time, it was like, yeah, I want him to be my teacher. He's so cool. Yeah, I was like a sixteen probably and I was too cool for school. But it probably really good. I don't. I think it has its merits, but merits School Rock, it's merits well. One of the reasons I am a it's uh, well, look sorry. One of the reasons that I'm a wretched person is that I do not like children. I don't like movies that start children and child actors. You hate a child actors, get them out of here. I hate most child actors, but all the child actors in this movie I have a crush on. So so it's different. I mean, and they're ten or eleven. That's better than when you have like a six year old in a movie. No thank you. But even so, the cast is largely children, and I cannot get behind it. Do not endorse most only a children who never work again. But with the exception of one Miranda Cosgrove, who one might argue it was a star making role for her. If by star making you mean I carly eventually, wait, which character is that summer Um band manager they sleep with the band? Sloot shaming this movie, okay, but but I think that's on Jack back because he made the children groupies, well and groupies, but he could have induced historically. But he also the cheerleaders for it, and I feel like they're because that's the thing that seems weird. But then they're the ones charged with like designing the clothing, coming up with the name, and they're really excited about it. And then obviously when Summer isn't, he's like gives her the biggest job possible, but mainly band manager. He never actually tells her how to do it or what to do. He lets her decide the figuring out how to be a leader. She reads that whole book and then later they're like, she's Upsas with David Gavin, just some quick stats on this movie before we get into the recap. This movie was the most successful musical comedy ever until pitch Perfect Too like to which I refused to see because of that. I am like, pitch Perfect franchise needs to grow up and let School of Rock habits place in history. So this is a Richard Linklner movie. Let's name some big ones. Because I have seen a handful of his movies. I have not like a super fan, sure, but so my favorite of his is Before Sunrise, Before Sunset, I can take earl before Midnight. Maybe I need to revisit it. But those first two, especially of the Floor trilogy, I haven't seen. They are so fucking good. I love them so much. I hate romance movies. I hate romance in general. I hate children. I hate everything that's good about the world. Can I say it? Yeah? So Caleen loves Before Sunrise so much that she has a sketch on the World Wide Web that is a Before Sunrise Twilight crossover and it's really good. Thanks checking on her work out before Twilight on the Internet. Once you know what it is, I just didn't know what it was at first, but then once I saw I understood. It's a low budget production written and edited by a wow budget Caitlin torante Um, It's it's it's the Nindie Faith, but Nindy Darlin. Linklater is also famous. Link Later is also famous for Days Used Boyhood and then Last year he did Everybody Wants Some, which I did see, which can suck my ass. Did not like it, Richard. Okay, we'll get into let's let's go through a School of Rock, which I think we can all agree as his best movie. I I mean I legitimately, of what I've seen of his I like School Rock better than Days to Confuse. I like it better than Boyhood. I like it better than Everybody Wants Them. I'm pretty sure that's all I've seen. Hearing of you, and I can say it's still great. However, many years later than when I first saw, even the joke about fucking kids is still funny. How many movies, and I think they touched me too, It's so funny. Okay, let's do the recap. All right, this is going to be a fun one. It's gonna be so Nina, so you know, interjections allowed, but Kaitlin is also allowed to yell back. I oh god, Okay. School of Rock is the story of Dewey Finn Fin. He's so cool man. He's in a rock band with Adam Pesk out of Rent and Aita And that person was in the Once musical? Is that the one with the longer Hair's like, Dooey, we're friends. Man, No, wait, was that a little any one who's in his band? Yeah, he's I want to see with my mom. And I was like, oh my god, I'm star Schuck the man from School up Rock. I was obsessed with Adam Pesco. He's great in this movie. He's like because he's like, I'm sure loss and you don't fit in. You're not enough for the band. But so Dewey Finn. He's in a rock band. He loves rock music. He does too many guitar solos at their shows and the band's like, well, we're gonna take you out. He's like no. Meanwhile, his roommate ned Mike White, who also wrote the movie. He has a girlfriend played by Sarah Silverman. Shrew number one, call her Shrew number one. She's one of three shrews that to Peven throughout the film, right, Shrew number one is like, you need to start paying rent, Dowey, you're freeloading too much. Tara Selverman a job. Yeah, she's wearing a turtle like. I think she's treated Of all the female characters, I think she's she's treated the worst. Agree and her talents are so wasted in this movie. She's so, I hope she paid her rent for three years off of having to wear all those turtle likes. Yeah, so she's like, you gotta start paying rent. And Dewey he's down on his luck. He's all out of sorts. And then he gets a phone call intended for his roommate Ned, but it's from this prestigious private school and that and I do love that. The first act is really like the inciting incident is a good old fashioned landline mix up. Couldn't happen today, the little hello. This isn't like great part anyways. So they give him a call and Dewey answers, and they're looking for a substitute teacher, which he's also. Mind you, he's in the middle of getting calls trying to sell his gear, plawning it off as like ridiculous things, which it is not, but making an effort to make rent selling things he doesn't want to sell them mean a lot to write, which he makes clear is for his Mike White is the first person I remember in my entire life realizing that you could have blonde eyelashes. Didn't know so he so he says specifically and this is another reason where it's like no one is nice to Sarah Silverman in this movie. Everyone's afraid of her. Or he's like, I'll do it for you, but not for that turtleneck, bitch. You know. He doesn't say it, but I think he almost says worse anyways, but yes, it's implied either way. So he gets this call and he pretends to be ned, and so he goes to this school pretending to be a substitute teacher. And it's a classroom full of all these young youths of America and they're accustomed to a very strict academic regiment and they're like, are you going to teach us or what? And he's just like, oh, I'm hung over. And he's very not into it. He's really just there to try to make some another exchange. I didn't know what hungover meant when I saw this movie. Literally teaches you that mean you're drunk, just drunk yesterday. I means you're an alcoholic. No, it doesn't, which isn't always true. That's a more square rectangle thing. Uh. So he's having a hard time connecting with these kids at first, and then he's like, wait a minute, what if I start teaching the music, So forget about the eye out part. Yeah, because he hears because he hears him playing music and goes and it's like, dang right. He says that without words. Yeah, he just the eyebrows say it all and then some the whole script, he as each wave. Some people are not going to like the eyebrow wave. But I think that he saved about three pages of dialogue with the eyebrow right, Because so Principal Joan Cuza comes in, She's like, it's time for their music lessons. So he hears them playing music. He's like, wait a minute, there are musicians. This kid plays the acoustic guitar. I can teach him how to play electric guitar. This other girl plays the cello. She's now the base. So he like, which, by the way, in saying that in this world, Jack Black has never heard of a cello, He's like, what was that cello you've got? That's also she says like two or three lines in the whole movie, and that's one of them. But also I'm pretty sure that's because of a choice thing really ill, because I looked at she's like one of were also talked because First of all, she was hashtag arizontal's crush of the movie. Second of all, she and I were born on the exact same date. So you played bass so cello it's a base um. But also she was also never in anything ever. Again, she did do her own you know, way too much. She did her own YouTube series of her playing music really under her real name. I think she changed the name of it. I wish I remembered it right now, But she did a really long time because all those people who had a crush on her found like, oh my god, she did become the music girl of my dream, Rebecca Brown. It's actually became Rebecca Black and now has a hit song that's Friday. Oh like Cosmopolitan dot com, slash uk, this school of rock child actress actually became a rock star subhead. Jack Black totally called it. I hate subheads so much, but you need to the people need to click anyways. Sorry, let's carry on. Okay, we'll get back to her. So this whole classroom full of students, he's like, all right, you he signs roles. He's like, you're the going to be the lead guitar, you're the bass player, you're the keyboard and then there's other kids in the class who I guess aren't important. So he's like, they're not musically talented. So he's like, you can be a groupie. You're going to design the costumes. Hey, you're the lighting guy, which is all important important. They totally are they totally. You're speaking to a music journalist. I know what I want your word. What I meant to say, I will write something means. Second, Jack Black totally called it sucks. I told you, I'm wretched. I misspoke. What I meant is I guess they're not cool enough to be in the band or whatever. Anyway, because you're not in the band doesn't mean you're not in the band. But he does overlook them at first. At first he's like, you can watch yeah, and then he has to like, I gets too excited about the music, right, Dowey, I guess Jack basically do we Dowey? And then they enter. He's like, we're gonna enter the Battle of the Band's contest because he is now without a band. So he's using these children to have his own rock band. Again, that's what this movie is about anyway, So he I don't understand what the process. Meanwhile, he's like fooling principal Joan Cusack, and she she's Shrewd number two. She's like rules, rules, rules, You're not allowed to take a field trip, blah blah blah. And then things culminate to a point where people figure out that he's been lying this whole time, and they're like, you're whole bust him. Shrewd number one. Yeah, have we have we named Shrewd number three? We have not. She is Summer of the band manager Miranda Cosgrow, a very young, adorable doughe eyed Miranda Cosgrown idolize she cannot saying, and she idolizes David Geffen. She rules, can I just really quick? Rebecca Brown my Birthday Twin is now performing in spam Alton in Chicago, which is a parody musical of Hamilton's and it's also in Chicago. She's doing great. She has an Instagram account. She has an Instagram. She's doing great. She's I look forward to our shared birth day. Maybe I'll go. I'll go to Chicago next week. Maybe I'll go to Spammleton Chai please do anyways the end, She's doing fine, Okay, cool, cool, cool cool. She has like three lines in the movie, but she's fine. People find out that he is not actually ned, and he gets in trouble and he gets fired from his job. There are police there, doesn't get arrested. Good for him. And then the kids are like, but wait, we still want to do Battle of the Band. So they go to his house, get him out of bed. He's not wearing a shirt. You do see his nipples and then they're like, come on, they're hard. They're like, come on, we're going to the Battle of the Band. So he drives him in his van to a bout all of the bands. They play a song. It's great, they don't win, but everyone's like School of Rock, Encore, Please, it's in encore. So they play another song and everything ends up fine. The end, la la la. Well they starting school, which is a real fact. Yeah, it's like a real after school program, right was it a real thing? Before the movie had there was like not controversy, but apparently they started writing this script and then that was also happening, but it wasn't meant as like a you know, true story of the people who started that program, and the title was going to be something different or they almost had to change it to something else the School of Rock title because of the program. Oh interesting. I mean I'm sure that it's like yeah, And then they were like, if anything, this is going to help boost It had to because I'm sure people assumed it was like every city. No, yeah, yeah, because I remember they every single They have one in Boston, don't they. Yeah. Also, I think it's funny to mention I have not seen this music. All the school Rock has been adapted for the stage on Broadway, buying none other than my boy and yours, Andrew lood whatever and a guy from Downtown Abbey. I mean, if we're talking about the man Andrew would Webber really does just fit right in there, as does anyone associated with Downton Appy. But anyway, it's a very successful Broadway musical now as well, although I'm willing to meet its digs. Compared to they debuted the one of the songs on the Today Show, It's like I could watch it. Must have been in college when it came out, and I was not impressed because it deviates ever so slightly from the script which I have memorized, and boy was my brain not into it. But there's also the TV show on Nickelodeon I don't know if it's so there was, Yeah, there wasn't. I when was that on? I did not watch that. I think it premiered in and let's see if it's still on it is season so School of all that, to say, the story ages very well. People love a timeless tale rock. People are always going at school. People always want to make school cool, and that's why School of Rock holds up till this very day. And see no just okay. I think that there's a there's a lot to talk about in terms of how female characters are treated in this movie. And also I think expanding that to Richard linklater a little bit would be hopeful because I was doing some background research and my research made me like Richard Linkland or less because partially because his most recent film, Everybody Wants Them is just a big I mean, have you guys seen it? So it's about it's loosely based on Richard Linkletter's freshman year of college in the nine eighties, and it's about boy not boyfriends. It's about friends that are boys, like boy tribes. It's a very animal house kind of several different boyhoods are coming together into one movie. But like what like barely thought out. It's it's a it's a fucking drag. It's a real drag. There's a lot of jokes at the pens of women, almost every shot of a girl. And you know, Richard Richard linkletter and interviews is like, well, but tell an eighteen year old boy would see it. And it's like, but also if you're a boy seeing it, then that's how you're taught to you women. Anyways, what an idiot. But in response to sorry, I'm like, hijack, you can cut this out if you want, please, I cannot wait to ki, I mean, please go on. Um So. Also he's directed a movie called boy I mean, I I enjoyed Boyhood. I thought, you know, it's it's a cool film. It was fine. I liked it. What did you did you like? I'm impressed that he got the same people to stay on for a long time, like means he's agreeable. Also like that the thing I remember most is like a wordless probably like thirty second thing of when he's really young and the boyfriend's like a dead bird and dead something dead in the backyard, I think. And he doesn't say, he just says, like death, what is I'm glad, thank you. An they got me thinking, that's what I think of when I think of that movie, and that is horrible acting at the end. Yeah, I mean he really rolled the dice on that. And sometimes you're gonna get a Haley Joel Osmond. Most times you're not Haley Joel Osmond. If you're listening, please come on the podcast. We're waiting for you. We can do any movie you want. Six for my tweets, don't you don't have to do six sends? What was the movie you like? I just want to more about I just wonder more about things that he likes. Maybe he's into some weird shit. If you're into some weird ship, for sure, hit me up. Anyways, everybody wants some received generally positively. People are like, it's a you know, an ode to boys? What movie fucking isn't Christopher Nolan just released a movie I keep calling Boys City done Kirk don Kirk, Yeah, there's anyways. Yeah, why isn't there a girlhood? Hello? Because because everyone wants to jerk off to themselves. And I get that. Richard Linklater is a man and he's able to make movies because he's a man. So he's going to drink off to himself, however, so he retaliates, not retaliates, but make makes a strategic move, as as some people do after people are like everybody wants them is making fun of women a lot, and the women who are in it are only objectified. And then he says, well, I am executive producing a women's film now. So he signs on to executive produce a friend of his who's making a movie. Her name is Katie Coconos, and the name of the movie is I Dreamed Too Much. It was an indie movie, came out a couple of months ago at this point, and he doesn't interview a crummy interview with Vanity Fair in which he sort of discusses why he feels that women aren't being given opportunities and film I'd love to hear, and he's got some really interesting thoughts. So question, why was is the project that finally got you to step into a producing role? His answer, well, I like that it's one of the few young women's films that isn't really centered around a guy or getting a guy or breaking up with a guy. I like that Katie had a real strong vision for a young woman her own dreams, her own aspirations, and I thought, that's pretty damn unique. You don't see that a lot. There needs to be more voices like that out there. First of all, thank you so fucking much, because I'm always around trying to get the guy break up with the guy, and it never occurred to me. You know, that's pretty damn unique. He says, you do what you can. But I think it's just an access question. I think a lot of women in general want to talk about their experience of youth, like boyhood, days of confused, everybody wants on, etcetera. I think they're probably a little more hesitant in the film world to say, oh, my own story, that's worthy of semina cinema, Jesus Christ, Well, I have to go overds in the bedroom to come to continue to quote. I remember doing some interviews on Everybody Wants Some and people were like, why aren't there any good female roles? Your film is very male, there's no women in it. I'd always say, well, if you feel there's a void, I did executive produce this other movie, so when that film opens, I hope you care or pay attention because it's out there. So instead of uh, saying, Hey, maybe I should write a female character that isn't horror virgin or shrew. Go see what this other person made. I gave her ten thousand dollars and I would like credit for that. So he's basically saying he's he's a very hot on the back, thank you for trying. That's like, I don't like it. God his blind Oh, it's so unique to have a woman tell her own story. You just don't see that that much. But do you fucking have any idea? Why? You stupid idiot? And also the implication is like women are just this is just starting to occur to him. Did they too grew up and they too have had feelings that weren't just about how horny they are for me or my fucking friends. And now that they're having these feelings, I'm tossing them the fucking ball. And it's just like, So that interview, really, and this is an interview from this year, made me really want to like look back at some of his because because from what I can tell, and I haven't seen them all, it seems like his treatment of women is kind of movie to movie from what because I I felt, as I remember I wasn't watching it for this podcast, but like Boyhood, I didn't think was incredibly unfair to its It just you know, I don't know, nothing really struck me with the Before trilogy. It's really just two main characters, Ethan Hawk's character and Julie Dupley's character. And Julie Dudley's character is solid. It's a very character driven, mostly dialogue. Not a ton happens in any of the movies except for just developing their relations and ship. But her character is very like, she's very outspoken, she has opinions, she voices them right. But then I would argue in Days and Confused, women are not treated very well. I don't remember it that well, so I can't speak much to it in general. I mean as a rule there you know, it is a male focus film and the women are objectified. It's like kind of in the same way as Everybody Wants the which he himself connects the two movies as like, yeah, that's like a spiritual sequel kind of thing, and that it's about young boys who just wanted. So anyways, it does seem like there's a lot of nuance here in terms of like movie to movie, so let's bring it back to school of freaking rock. Okay, So that's why I think my criticism is over for the episode. I did want to bring up because that I reading that interview really piss me off. One quote. What you point out to though, like this being unique and putting, it's just putting. I like, I don't know, Like this happens a lot in life, not even just in quote for but where women having like original quote unquote ideas and being like remotely creative or deviating from this setup of like I don't even know. I feel like it's just this big thing of putting someone in pedestal for having an idea which is not of like a normal like having ambitions. Well, he's completely failing to acknowledge the fact that women don't get the same opportunities in Hollywood to make movies, and the few times that a woman is directing a movie, it's seen as this novel thing. Oh, how original, how unique, And it's just because we've been pushed down all throughout the history of filmmaking and also life in general, society, history of the world. Right, it isn't like the way that quote especially, Yeah, it's it's sort of the same quote where it sounds like, and maybe this was taken out of context, but I mean it sounds like Richard link Lighter thinks that women are just starting to direct movies because it just occurred to them that they might have a story whereth telling where it's actually been centuries of not inflament, but you know, like it's been at least a century long struggle to even get one percent representation, which I think is about still where we're at in terms of directing anyways. So that's dumb. Uh. But back to School of Rock and it's female characters. Let's talk about Principal Mullins because I think she she has I guess, the most story of any female character, or I love her. I don't know how well she's treated by the story, but as a character, I love her. She's in charge, she's very good at her job. She is respected by to some degree every but like she is by pretty much everybody, I feel like, I don't think anyone thinks she's doing a bad job, right, But there's like liking someone and then not or like respecting them are really different. Sure, yeah she's respected, but I think she acknowledges And then there's also a scene like in the teacher's lounge where she's like harping on about something and Dewey's like she always like this and they're like, oh yeah, like they don't really see her as like someone, which makes sense because she's there's superior boss like that. Yeah, We're like, yeah, he's so fu up night. And then there's that scene where they go out to coffee, which ends up being a giant mug of beer instead of coffee. She's like she or you don't have coffee and he's like, oh, I'm sure she's so good. Afterwards she's like, no one thinks I'm cool. I had to become this pitch and he's like, no, no, no, you're cool. So I kind of like that scene where she's like, this role made me have to be a certain way, or at least she feels that way, and she's acknowledging that because maybe a woman in power, I had to assume this role to be respected, right. I like that she acknowledges that, and that the movie addresses it. Isn't the most poignant thing ever, No, but they do it. Yeah, they do it. I remember when I was a kid too. That really stuck out to me because it was like the only felt like the only point in the movie that was like legitimately serious, like I didn't fully understand what it was there getting it. I also didn't even know that she mouthed the word bitch. I was like, what's what's she's saying. But because it does, like it does get serious and he visibly seems a comfortable. I think he feels bad for thinking she's uptight, but having her talk about that, like she felt like she had to become this ubtype version and couldn't really balance both because most movies will have a role very similar to hers, where it's like the Boss, she's a shrew, she's very uptight, and we only see her in that role. We never see her like that moment be like, yeah, I know that I've become this I didn't ever want to be this person, but this is who I had to become to be respected in this role. Yeah, that's that's a great point. First of all, junk fucking rules, every line read she gives in this movie is the best line read. I wonder how I feel like she never had to do a second take. She she also has like really good off I think lines that she came up with her improv stuff that's seen in the teacher's lounge where they're like after she stops giving her speech and Jack lexical. She always like that they like pan to her with their conversation. The main one has been in the background, She's like, and then the turkey sand which just touched the people. You know, this is a big deal, and I'm like, Joan killing it. There's serious and the way she's like always like a little bit hunched over. She's like, I know she she does really good pers lips always, especially when you drinking that beer or like sipping it. She's really allowed to Joane out, which is like, so it's so good. I also appreciate that the story does not push her and Dewey together romantic maybe a little bit, but for the most part, I think it's mostly a friendship where even at one point she asks if he'll go to parents knight with her, because she's like, it's not a date or anything. I just like being around you makes me feel more comfortable, which is friendship. And I don't think she really necessarily has the vocabulary for friendship unfortunately, but like it would have been another super easy choice for this movie to be like and then totally the uptight principle and cool think in like sort of pervert institute teacher Meg Love and having it phrase too and a wait where like that absolutely could have happened, Especially then I feel like that steals whatever progress she's made as being something that he showed her how to do instead of her just like realizing she doesn't have to be that way. She doesn't, right, and and yeah, it's like she by the end, she's not doing I mean, I guess she's maybe doing a little bit less of a good job and that she's endorsing the school of Rock. But also it's like she doesn't really have to sacrifice anything, I feel the way a lot of female characters have to where she does her job throughout, including the greatest line read ever of I've just been informed that your kids are missing shrug, so good. But she doesn't really like nothing is taken from her, which was also refreshing. Is she continues, you know, we assume she continues to have her job. It's implied at the end that maybe she's going to hook up with the new guitarist wearing the half leather jack the most comfortable like every time. Every time watches, I like have to look away. I can't sit it's like too too much, uncomfortable because it's hot, and she's like, there's more tattoo. It's awful every bit. But again, it's like she is at first glance of a shrewish character, but for me that is subverted enough through the story and actually giving her character some attention and an arc of I feel like her arc is she realizes she doesn't need to be I mean, and I guess this does speak to the truth, like you don't have to be so fucking uptight. But I think she like, in the context of this character, she realizes she can be more herself and still be very good at her job. And this is a sort of a male impose, but like you can like Fleetwood Mac and be a good private school principle, which is, you know, it's not the perfect lesson, but I like it. It worked for me. Yeah, I mean, she's sort of adhering to this, like society's rules dictate that I have to be this very uptight, especially because it's like the private school sector. These kids parents are paying fifteen thousand dollars a year for them to pretend which actually is not that much. I was like staring considering college. Well that and I've known of like private elementary or maybe it was high schools. I don't know, but that ship costs so much money. Three baby true, Lucy goofy. I almost said pre nine eleven it wasn't it was, but it was first well first, second bush Admin first half of the sec different was weird. I did want to bring up that this movie comes out just at at the sort of as the man Child trope is really taken off, and it's going to stick with us till this fucking day seth Rogan is still around, He's still alive. Did you know no one's harpooned him yet? That's always going to go. This is he. I'm gonna harpoon him. I've threatened to do it before. Uh. I hate the man child trope, but in this again, this movie is a big fat exception where it just works. I don't know it why, I think that that's that's what it is. It's the man child surrounded by literal children, and I can't handle that many children in a movie, which is fair, I did. I did want to bring that up because that is a huge pet peeve of mine that again in this movie just gets a full pass and I openly love him. Let's talk about the female students. Can we talk about Tamkas Like by far, I always think she's the best character in this whole movie. I think so too. So she's the student who he calls turkey suboriginally, which I thought was because she was heavy, but it's because he takes a turkey sub out of her desk the first day steals and for so long I was like, this is my biggest complaint with this movie. Why are you fat shaming this wonderful girl. But also the movie made the choice to have her be the only character with food in her desk, so that or that was like willing to share it true. Maybe she's just a very generous person. She's great, Yeah, she's great. He does take your turkey step. Yeah, So with her, the fact that like she's very quiet gets a sign I think security as a job. And then comes up to him after and it's like, actually want to be a singer and it is too afraid saying and stuff, and then overcomes that sings has like an incredible voice, and it's just like that scene before I think it's the auditions for the Battle of the Bands where she gets too nervous and pulls him aside. I go back to all the time, and every time I watch it, I feel like the older I've gotten, the more I appreciate the language in that scene, because she says that she's too nervous to sing, and he asked why, and she says, I'm afraid they're gonna laugh at me, that they're gonna call me fat, and he says, like to me, because that's not a problem, and like he it's just the wording is like he never actually says like you're not overweight, or like you're not because she is a bit heavier. And he also isn't like you can go on a diet or like try to make her feel like there's other options. He just says, like, what you want to do is what you want to do, and being fat isn't that's not equivalent to being ugly. And there's like so much throughout all of that, and he goes and says, like, you know, Aretha Franklin, she's a big lady, but she doesn't safe she can sing. Everyone wants to party with Aretha possible, And then he's like, and you know me, like I have a way to shoe too. She asked why he does go on a diet, and he just says, because I like to eat. Is that a problem, and then goes on to say like, but then people worship me and like accept me when I'm up there, and then just basically says like you can sing if you want to, but it's up to you. And the fact that he's not like, you're not I promise, let's just do this, and that it's still up to her to decide and they're choice, and that I just like, it's always so like Rewatching, it warms warms my little heart. It's a great I mean, like the fact that he doesn't shame where that he's like, it's okay to eat or be overweight as long as you're comfortable with yourself. I'm just like, wow, especially, I feel like movies of that time are so bad that when I go back to Rewatch well and Richard Linkletter, movies are historically pretty bad. With that, I mean, this is written by Mike White, so good, good guy, the Blonde Eyelash to God we know as Mike White, but you're totally right, like as I've gotten older and watched that scene. It is kind of remarkable how it holds up pretty much like the way and Tamika is just cool, like she's fucking cool and so talented, and she wearing her Avril Levina. Everyone looks like blank money d two or all of those hair pieces that are bright pink that I always wish I had, but I was not cool enough, But then I learned I was. I just had to believe you were just like Lawrence Exac. Well, that's I wanted to talk about the kid, because, um, the kid, the kid. Um all all of the story treats. There's like two male students that have arcs, and then two female students that have arcs, and then the rest are kind of tertiary, which is fine, they're not all going to have an ARC. But I did like that sort of regardless of gender, all the students were treated with either respect or not respect, depending where we're at in the movie by Dewey, which I think is a testament to even though he's a you know, man child character, he is respectful of the students and really does listen to them, and there's like scenes where he's collaborating with them and treating them to songs or when my favorite part where they're collaborating words were in Zack and Zack song and Zacks sacrete song where rock is the reason, rock is the rhyme and he's like, no, no, no, rock, got no reason, rock, got no rock. I'm like, you guys are just fucking pals. I love it. But and then he says to right after that, because he's like suggests that in Zach like okay, because they all have been taught. I mean their parents are all like super strict and terrifying, especially his. And then he's like, well, no, no, no, like it's a suggestion, this is your song. Like it's just like so I'm like, wow, you respect children? Who does not enough people were changing the lyrics. Sorry, Like but like seeing that when you're probably again like seeing that when you're like eleven, You're just like yeah. And when he does that whole song of like teaching them to basically like flip off whatever stress of yeah, and it's like what, here's you? And then I for her name, the brace face girl says homework and then the adorable like smallest child of the bunch is just like bullies. You're like you're just like, there's a whole other movie here. I think what bothered me about the dynamic of the band at least is that all the main parts of the band, which is Zach gets lean guitar, Lawrence gets keyboard. Who's the drummer, little little like burn stuff, the little road, what do you like to do your time stuff? She's like, okay, reasons forever, sorry, okay. And then there's the bass player who Katie. So she a great day for everyone. She's pretty much the only because you can the backup vocals, they're kind of backups. So if we're just like isolating the main members, the frontman of the band, we only have one girl. She gets very little lines of dialogue of screen time. Weirdly enough, her main moment is and I know, you know, is the exchange she has with Freddie A k Spazie McGhee white about Meg White. Yeah, like two good female drummers, and then she, I mean she names at least one good female. I'm not a huge Meg White. That's also know, that's something that like there's so many drummers like I credited who have simple beats, who just like do what she is doing and she's doing what they're doing who get credited as like being like Ringo. Everyone always makes jokes about how he's not a super intricate drummer or anything, but like she has a simple part if you play drums every day and going tour all the time, like she can play. She can do stuff beyond that, but that's just her role. And people always like, I don't know, there was a really good, really really good piece on Meg White, and like how she doesn't get the respect she's deserved and has always been like the butt of the joke on Hazel It maybe okay, I have to look it up, but like so when she names those people and does like she even white from the White stripes, and he's like, she can't drum, she's better drummer than you. That that I mean, that was a great yeah, especially because like I feel, I feel like it's like trying to balance it. But she I've always been under the impression that Katie doesn't talk because she didn't want to. I think when the they had rehearsals, which I also like to be idealist and think like they didn't have a lot of girls I like try out for the other parts. Maybe they did. I don't know, they're still I'm sure sexism that comes into play there in terms of who you choose, But I think they chose her because she was really good at base and she didn't want to talk, because even when Jack Black is telling her how to do those like big poofy lips and stuff, she doesn't I'm pretty sure she doesn't talk at all during that. She's not even like okay, like no like one syllable words or anything. And at the end she's the only one in the credit who doesn't solo, and you can tell because of editing. I think either she did or she didn't because she gets scared on camera. She's also clearly still does music. But I think she was someone who was like wanted to play and do this, and they wanted to have her, and I think we're almost or I don't know, but it seems like they were like, we care enough about having you that it's okay if you don't have a lot of lines, because she has a lot of the iconic stuff with like the cello, that she could have been more involved in, but she just like always looks terrified. Yeah, then make the keyboard player a girl, or like I don't know, They're just there were more opportunities to have more of like the main band be one of those characters, were more than one be a girl and with lines and an arc and stuff like that. I mean that said three, if you're not including Jack Black, three of the four main people are white. Lawrence is the only one who's a person of color. Like that's something else too that I rewatching. Feel like their class is more diverse than like I feel like for a private school, way more diverse than what imagined it would be. Right, Yeah, in terms of casting, right, I agree in terms of the band, but in terms of the class as a whole, we do get two male student arcs, two female student arcs, with the female student arts are Tamika and Summer. The male student arcs are Zack and Lawrence. So in that way it kind of I agree in terms of like musical representation, but in terms of the story I felt pretty good watching at this time of Like, Summer does get her arc of She's the Little Shrew basically, and is originally presented as an annoyance and a foil to Jack Black trying to teachers. Yeah, but by the end he's like she's going to be the first female president, which still could be true. Yeah, go for it, Miranda, we loved you, and Drake and Josh we loved you, and I Carle time to become the president, and I feel like they try given time limit too, because they probably could have gone longer. A lot of the montages try to show I mean, as any film does, growth between people. But I really like that they show Gordon Gordon, Lizzie McGuire, the Gordo, the little boy, the light handles, the lights and like technology stuff because they during their like the final Battle of the Band scene too, they show him and like his work often and from his perspective. Also, the person watching him is a female light technician and not or like stage hand person and not a boy, which like if you think of like on stage representation offstage is like way less music industry. So I was like, wow, that's nice and like not what I thought it would be when I noticed that later in life. So I like that they show his stuff and like actually give it credit. They just like credit kids is being smart and capable of learning a lot, which is a it's a pretty true yeah, and the good kids can't learn. It was a waste of time and like, one of the best and most exciting things I've seen this movie when You're a kid is being like I'm a kid and I can do stuff. That's my representation is so important. That's why we's gonna say, and also a better representation of women. Um does this movie pass the Backtel tests? Yes, Yes it does. What where although do we know that teacher's name? Where? Um, the principal is talking to a lady teacher and she's like, don't have the peanut butter sandwich the other sandwiches. That scene does not pass. At least there are two women interacting. Yes, it does. It does have it doesn't happen as much as it should. There's no scene Sarah Silverman is in that I saw that passes the Bactel test. Unfortunate, but there are So there's a scene between John Cusack and a child where she's yelling at the child but also like do you want to hug and she's like no, and then she's like, Okay, have a good day, Emily. That passes the test. Uh. And then there's a scene right after that. I think that it does pass because I think she's talking to one of the teachers, who we learned has a name in a previous scene even though I don't remember it. After that leaves the school, yeah, where she's like, she's like, yeah, the teachers slipped, but we've got a substitute, and so she's technically talking about it, just like talking about her tub because it's about him filling in and explaining what he does. Either way, it already passes. But there are so many opportunities for like the three backup singers who were all girls, to be like, hey, I like to sing me too, Like they could have talked. There could have been there's there are more opportunities that were missed, especially imagine just like natural conversation that would have occurred that would have been relevant between everyone summer as the band manager was controlled, like you know, had jurisdiction over everybody, she could have talked to the backup singers, she could have talked to the bass player, all kinds of people. But we don't see any of those scenes. So let's all give School of Rock a nipple rating on our famous nipple rating scale. And this is not how much you liked the movie, but how well you think it treats women on a scale of one to five and then we're going to need some description to those nips. I'm going to give this movie a three and a half nipples because Richard Lingler in a hole. I give him a punch in the mouth. As of right now, that interview really bothered me. But this movie, uh, the shrew problem is almost entirely responsible for why I'm gonna knock off points, and I think of us really being honest. It's more of a three three and a half though. The shrewd the shrewdestness, especially of the Sarah Silverman character, which is like a double punch in the gut because it's like, don't do that to Sarah fucking Silverman, are you kidding? Every scene she's in she's like right, So that's not fair. Um. But we do see growth in our main female character, principal Rosalie Mullins played by Joan Joan Out. I appreciate that they sort of take a stereotype and, whether intentionally or not, at least subvert it to Mika Amazing summer has. You know, she has an arc. She goes on to become my Carly. It's all good. I'm giving the nipples too. I'm giving two of them to Adam Pascal because he's gonna need them. He's going to film rent for two thousand and five. He's busy. He's gonna need those nipples. I'm not gonna take them away from him. I'm assuming that whoever we don't give nipples two ceases to have them. I'm giving one blonde nipple to Mike White, very pale, and then I'm giving the last half a nipple just busy McGhee. Okay, yeah, I'm gonna go with four. I went in originally thinking more, but then hearing a lot of your thoughts about it made me change my mind, which makes sense because Sarah Silverman really doesn't at all, which is the one that I knew ahead. But then Joe and I feel like I always thought of her more as changing, but there often isn't because the blind she had there in the background. But is it? I like, want to give it to kids as an award, but then I'm also like, no, that's wrong. This is the same space. Give the children nipples, they need them, humanity will cease to be Oh we milk. It feels too weird, So I'm not going to I'm gonna give it to one to Jack Black's ex bandmate who was in Once because my mom loves that musical. Shout out to that guy. I'm gonna give one to Know. I'm gonna give two to that woman who works behind the board, the sound board about all of the band's respect her. And then I'll give one to Joan. She deserves it, she deserves it, She's worked hard. I'm gonna give it two and a half nipples. I'm sorry, but it's still largely fine a man's movie. Jack Black steals the show, and by that and he's given the show, he steals. Its written for him. It's a show and a lot of a lot of his interactions are with other boys in the band, so it's still a very male heavy movie. The female characters that there are, as we pointed out, are often very like uptight, high strung so and then of the ones who are turtle like vibe. Of the ones who aren't barely get any screen time to make a great character. I love her. She doesn't get a ton of screen time or lines, doesn't play a huge role in the story as tender and wonderful as her scene is where she's like, I'm afraid people are gonna laugh at me because I'm fat, Sarah Soloman, Summer Principal, John Cusack. They're all like um, which is fine. There are people like that. That's totally cool. But let's see a broader representation of women. There are other types of women like me, wretched but also cool anyway, So I give it two and a half nipples. They belong to Jack Black, the nipples that we see that the children also see. And then a half nupple goes to I'm gonna say, Julie Depley from Before Sunrise cool because we see her nipples in Before Midnight. Actually, so that's the half nipple. Do you everything? Jack Black and Jack White hang out anyways every day. Thank you so much. Thank you. Where can people find you online? I'm on the Internet on the Twitter. My name is Nina Corkor and then that's my handle with an underscore. You can find me in print and dig Boston if you live in the city, and otherwise my name is very google ble. There's not a lot of us. Nina Corkoran's out there. We eat player and a cool girl who lives in Canada. Hell yeah, we'll tag this ship out of you. There's a lot of Jamie Lattis is out there and I almost hooked up with one one time for another day. All right, thanks for listening to the battel Cast. You can find us on Twitter at bactel Cast. You can find us on Instagram at backtel Cast. We just got a website. It's becktel Cast Dot freaking calm. Give us money. We need money really bad. There's a place to click for money for us. Uh. Money for us is good always. We're coming to New York in September. Come to that. I keep wanting to say September eleven. It's not that it's September. It's September nine. We're all fine. We're gonna have a great time at the cinder Block Comedy Festival. It's it's gonna be. It's gonna be a hip and a hop in a fun time. Oh yeah, oh yeah. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much for looking. Just punched the water wattle. Okay, gotta go.