Sports Parenting with Rebecca Smith

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Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hart Hunger. I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger. On the side, we are two working parents who love our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals. We want you to get the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This is episode two hundred and thirty eight. I'll be interviewing Rebecca Smith on sports parenting how people who have competitive athletes as children or even just you know, really serious or into lots of sports athletes, how you can keep them from feeling too much pressure and having lots of anxiety about that, and also just sort of taking care of yourself while you are dealing with very competitive and sometimes stressful situations as happens when kids get very into sports, and particularly and the competitive higher ranks of sports that Rebecca deals with. So that's a lot of great advice, and then I really hope you will check that out. Sarah, what are your kids currently doing in terms of sports? Yeah, so this change is a lot. I don't think my kids have locked into that many things yet, despite trying stuff, and of course, you know, pandemic kind of messed up a few activities that have been started. Now we're doing lots of things. Annabel and Cameron both do horseback riding. This actually is facilitated by the fact that Josh's ann owns a horse farm that's about fifteen minutes from our house where they do lessons and they have shows and it's great. If anybody's in South Florida, that's Condy Farm, check it out anyway. Then Cameron does soccer. Genevieve does soccer as well. She'd be kind of does soccer. She's on a field with a ball and there's kicking involved. Yes, Cameron does tennis. He actually really likes it. And Annabelle just agreed to start tennis. I think she's been twice, mostly because she tends to bounce from sport to sport and like quits everything, and I'm trying to find something that she enjoys to stick with. And then I feel like there's one more thing. Oh, Cameron just finished up a season on the school track and field team where he got to do lots of long jump and discus throwing and one hundred meters dash and it was really cute. That sounds great. Did the discus go where it was supposed to go? Yeah, pretty much? He yeah. Those the shot put actually shotput he did as well. Shotput and the long jump seemed to be his strengths this season. But he's in second grade, so you know, we'll see it's a second grade long jump. That's it's fun to think about. Yeah. No, we have different sports at different times too. It's uh, you know, kids try stuff and then decide it's not for them and move on and try to keep trying other things. So Jasper is currently doing tennis. He seems to like that. Sam is doing fencing, which is new that he started this fall, but I think he wanted to move on from baseball and so fencing it is. Ruth is doing karate and she's now in the advanced class. She got like a red belt. I know it's something else. I'm losing track of it, but it's the advanced class and she's got all these fancy weapons that she does as well, like the double numb chucks. And she also is doing gymnastics currently and we'll do soccer in the spring. And Alex is doing gymnastics in karate as well. He'll be doing more straight partcore in the spring. But that class was like sold out in the winter, so anyway, that'll happen soon. But yeah, no, nobody's doing that much. But it's just when you have four kids in something once being a reasonable amount of activities. So far seems to be keeping under control, and no one looks like they're quite going to be eligible for Rebecca's level of sports intensity. But I know we have a lot of readers, a lot readers listeners who are in these situations, and so I know you will find it very useful. And honestly, if you have kids who are intensely into anything, like they're in you know, the elite band or orchestra in your area, or they're doing you know, very high end musical theater in your community, the various academic bowl teams or whatever, anyone who has a kid who's deeply into something is going to appreciate her advice because it's it's pretty similar, even if it's not involving athletics necessarily, So please listen to the advice and I think you'll find it as useful as I did. Well, Sarah and I are delighted to welcome Rebecca Smith to the program. So, Rebecca, can you introduce yourself to our listeners? Yes, hy Laura, thank you so much for having me. So. I specialize in helping young athletes build confidence, overcome anxiety and fear, and a big portion of this is helping parents figure out how to support them because let's face it, parents can be part of the problem with their kids sports anxiety. So that's what I do. And you are a parent as well, correct. Yes, I have two daughters, three and six, and they are little mini athletes, many athletes just starting the athletic journey. Right, there's still quite adorable in they're little, tiny leotards. Yes, And speaking of leotards, that was your sport, correct, I was a gymnast for fifteen years. I was a coach for fifteen years and then I just couldn't shake it. That's my sport, my love, Like my super Bowl is the summer Olympics. That's what the only sporting event I typically watch. But yeah, that's where my heart lies because it's such a crazy stressful sport. So yeah, there's a lot of a lot of sports psychology need in that department for sure. Yeah. Well many of us have been as we're recording this, I mean, it'll run after they're over, I think, but have been watching the Winter Olympics and so getting a very close up view of people facing very very intense situations, you know, this being the big leagues. I'm curious. Yeah, when you see it, like, how do you see sort of anxiety playing out in such a such a big, you know, arena, or do you think anyone's actually immune from it? Are there are there people? No? I mean I was just reading an article that was all about how every single Winter Olympian is terrified all the time. You know that they're like, thank goodness, we're not allowed to flip four times because we would do it, but we might die. It's like, and so I love kind of looking into you know, the guy who climbed half done with no ropes. It's like, why why do people put themselves through these things? But because it just is so incredible when you are able to push yourself to these amazing limits and keep your body healthy at the same time, like that's a feat in and of itself. So these people like they really learn how to manage their anxiety, because your anxiety can send you sideways, like literally literally when you're yes, jumping off balance, spam. I guess so, because that's what it's about, then it's it for children, it's not about getting rid of the anxiety. Then it's it's about managing the anxiety. Yes, yes, and you look at you know, over the last couple of years, anxiety and depression in kids has skyrocketed in general, and then you add sort of these high pressure arenas even academics, Like academic anxiety is up, sports anxieties up. So we you know, we aim to help them cope so that that feeling in their stomach doesn't feel like they're going to die. It feels like butterflies, you know, that feeling in their chest feel like go power instead of a heart attack. So we help them figure out how to sort of like work with the nerves and actually get a better mindset on it. It's like every athlete goes out a little nervous because they care how can we get you out of the like what ifs and the you know, the all of the negative thinking that can go along with it. Is there a way? I'm very curious there is, absolutely yeah, because it you know, there's there's studies that show that all of the physical sensations that we have, like when you're on a roller coaster, our hearts are pounding, we're sweaty, we're tense. Some of us hate roller coasters and some of us love them, but we're all having the same physiological experience. So little hacks like that where kids go, oh, that's true. My sister hates rollercoasters, I love them, and we're both feeling the exact same thing. So there's something in my mind that makes this fun. And when I go out there feeling fun, then my brain doesn't think I'm going to be eaten by a tiger any minute. Then my body can relax and I can do the thing that I train twenty hours a week to do with some joy. It's all like these little mindset shifts can allow athletes to do the thing they love without feeling like they're, you know, being chased by a tiger all the time. Yeah, and what's generally happened and families are seeking you out, I mean, what's what sort of you know, leads somebody to seek out help for a young athlete. Yeah, so basically what happened to Simone Biles in the Olympics is exactly what we specialize in. It's these really high achieving athletes, high strong, high anxiety. Kind of generally like these little achievers who are super talented and they they're going through things are going well and then they hit a mental wall, which for some is they'll lose a skill. You know, they've done this skill over and over and then all of a sudden, she can't do it and we don't know why, and it's very frustrating. And it's basically this this thing that happens when kids stop trusting themselves and their confidence drops, that their brain actually won't let them do those certain skills anymore. They come to us and we, you know, we specialize in helping them figure out how to have a better relationship with themselves so that they can learn to trust themselves, so they can build lasting confidence rather than always trying to please and kind of not listening to their own needs. And that helps them to go, oh, actually this counts. It's not perfect, but it still counts. And it's like taking these little, you know, high strong achievers and giving them the ability to be okay with the journey that tends to be the solution. Yeah, definitely important. And you have lots of tips for parents too what you share on your podcast about what's tell our listeners the name of your podcast here, Yes, and my podcast is perform Happy with Rebecca Smith, and it's basically for parents who have this type of athlete. Tips for parents, tips for coaches, tips for athletes. Yeah. So we'll be right back with some of Rebecca's best tips for parents who are managing competitive athletes right after this break. So I'm back with Rebecca Smith, who is you know, deals with the psychology of young competitive athletes, people dealing with anxiety, perfectionism, things like that. And you mentioned, Rebecca that a big part of your practice is then also dealing with the parents, because the parents are a big part of this. So you had a podcast a few weeks ago on your top five tips for sports parents. So why don't you go ahead and share those with our listeners. Yes. So my number one tip for parents if you if you have a little athlete and you don't want to completely lose your mind over their sport, the number one thing is to be neutral. And this is it's a tall order. You know that. That's saying that you might be spending thousands of dollars and thousands of hours and your child may not succeed, like they might not make that team, they might not get that skill. Can you the parent be okay? And it's you know, we're investing our biggest commodity of time into this thing that these kids are doing. Can you be okay with it turning out? However it turns out? And the question to ask is if he doesn't make the team, will you still love him? Yes? Obviously, hello, Yes. If she doesn't get the backhandspring before the first meet, will you still love her? You know? And it's a complete no brainer. Of course, of course if they never if my little artist, my little daughter who's just not an athlete, if she never plays a sport and I'm her mother, can I love her absolutely? One hundred percent. So that's where we have to come from, is that we love them and it's okay them to succeed and thrive. It's okay for them to not make the team. If you're coming with this, you know your own like, oh I hope he gets it, or oh, I hope he makes it, or gosh, it's going to be awful if blah blah blah. Any of those expectations are creating stress and pressure for your athlete, whether you realize it or not, and then that's going to impact your relationship and their confidence. Well. So that's hard though, because you I mean not just about like, you know, we can be fine to be like, oh, it's fine if you lose or whatever, but wanting to praise sort of good things. I mean, that's kind of a natural thing that happens, and so you kind of have to hold that somewhat in check to be truly neutral. A lot of tongue biting that goes into being neutral, and you know, we can't probably be one hundred percent neutral, but we can pretend that we're neutral, you know, and we can act like we're neutral, and we can be so proud, you know, even if they don't perform, even if they're not trying, even if they're not showing up the way you want them to, even if you're like, why are we doing this? If you don't look like you even care out there? Can you be completely neutral in that situation? That's the tough stuff, that is, and I'm sure my Belsene parents who are not neutral, Oh my gosh, of course. Yeah. And that sort of brings me to my next tip, which is what to praise and how to praise it. So there are only two things we have to be very disciplined about praise. Two things that you want to praise for your athlete effort and progress. That's it. So for all of us, like myself included, I'm always like, you're so cute. I have to be like, that's not the thing that we want to be praising. Yes, you're so cute in that low leotard, but like you are showing up. You are working hard. Even with my six year old on the ice where ice skating, and she makes it like two steps without holding my hand, and I'm like, that was two extra it was two more steps. I'm so proud of you. She looks me like you're nut small, But every little progress, that's what you want to be encouraging, because otherwise she was only she was feeling like she was failing because she wasn't as good as her friend. She wasn't making it to the other side of the rink. But I was like that was two steps, buddy, maybe you could try, like, what if you made three? That's so great, You're getting so much better. And then also if she's just wiping out, wiping out, wiping out, I'm like, you keep getting back up. You're trying so hard out there, and I'm so proud of you. So if you're just focusing on progress and effort, then you're helping them to build the type of mindset that's going to really support them in their sport and in life. Excellent advice. You should all praise more effort less outcome. I think many of us could stand to do more of that. So what's our third point then? Okay, my third point this is what we call the perform happy parents mantra. Your job, this is what we do as parents. Is all you're supposed to do as a parent is food, hugs, rides, tuition. That is it. That is what you are in charge of. Food, hugs, rides, tuition. Okay, you are not the sports psychologist, you are not the equipment manager, you are not the coach. You just feed them, get them to practice, and hug them and pay for stuff. That's that's all you have to do. And if you're doing anything else, you have my full permission to stop doing it. And this might be hard for us micromanagy, you know, like very organized parents with disorganized children. But if you just do this, you will be happier and they will be happier. So you are not responsible for the hockey bag. That's what I'm hearing you are not, and that's actually that's number four. You know. Suggestion number four is to let them fail early and often. Okay, And you're probably thinking like, huh, why would I want to let my child fail? My whole job is to help this kid thrive, right, But if you let your ten year old forget the hockey bag, you don't let them obviously not setting them up for failure. But if it's their job to make sure they have the bag and they didn't bring the bag, they're going to have a life experience. It's going to give them that, you know, like little fire under their butt to go, oh, I need to bring my hockey bag. Okay, you can help them, but I mean that experience where that gymnast shows up at the meat without her grips is going to be uncomfortable and she's going to learn that lesson at age ten, eleven rather than going off to college and forgetting her grips. Then that actually came from a conversation with a college recruiting expert. So, this woman who helps kids get into the right college for them. So and I said, what is the best thing that you could do for your kids to get them into the school of their dreams? And she said, let them fail. I was like what, But she said that builds resilience. More that you can be independent and resilient the better. So letting your kids make those little mistakes young can really be helpful for them becoming independent. Yeah, I'm sure many of us have been impressed with children who are, you know, particularly excited about a sport and have taken sort of responsibility for it, you know, are asking for rides like from other families or the coach or something, you know, when they know it's not going to work for their parents, for instance. And that's always just incredibly impressive when people are sort of in charge of something like that. Right, So how about the fifth what's our final tip? This one is the one that I personally like the best. So when you have multiple children in multiple sports, it's easy to be like there is no time there is no me time. I remember having my husband after we had our second kid, was like, I don't have any me time. I'm like, that's not a thing. Me time is not a thing when you have little kids, Like, I don't know, buddy, but you know what it's not. That's not the truth. You have to and so tip number five is you got to fill your own cup. So you have to put on your oxygen mask first before helping others. And if you are going to have your little nine year old stress ball having her anxiety moment before the practice or whatever it is, or be in tears after practice, then you have to be able to be taking care of yourself beforehand so that you've got the ability to provide that that sounding board instead of being like, well, why are we spending so much money on this? If you're so miserable, you know, if you haven't slept, if you haven't eaten, if you haven't exercised, you're going to be less patient, You're going to be less able to be neutral. Neutrality comes from a place of like you taking care of you, so making sure that you have your own activities. You know, if your kids get to have activities, you get to have your own activities like train for your marathon, you know, take that pottery class, do girls' night out every Thursday. Set the boundaries are in your life so that you're not driving on Thursdays because you are going out to dinner with your girls and that's end of story, non negotiable. And if you're doing that, like I just went to this amazing retreat eighteen of my girlfriends. We rented this like mansion out on the top of a hill and we literally like did whatever we wanted all weekend. It was so indulgent. It was so indulgent. We took hikes and we like played board games. It was like just so nice to then come home to float home to my family and be like, yes, kids, you can need me now. Like that's if you're not taking care of yourself, then you can't be the best sport parent. We are big fans at best of both worlds of putting in your own activities alongside the kids ones. And I would add that, yes, having something that it's a commitment to is especially important because otherwise it's like, well I like to take you know, hot baths, Well you can do that. Whatever your bathtub is not going anywhere and so up being like, you know, you do everybody else's things first, and then maybe if you have time leftover, you do your your bath or whatever your yoga video. Whereas if it is playing in a string quartet at seven pm on Thursday nights, you're going to be there and the family knows. The family, Yeah, that's not your night to drive, Yeah, exactly. So yeah, Well, speaking of driving, though, I wonder if you have any tips for sort of family logistics because obviously this gets complicated in this particular if you have a kid who's into a lot of stuff and maybe one kid who's less into that, or you know, if you're coordinating lots of traveling places, what do you see people do that makes for a happy family. Yeah. One thing that made a lot of sense is, you know a lot of the time when kids are kind of climbing the levels and becoming you know, these collegiate hopefuls, they end up on these travel teams. They end up actually training with clubs that are an hour from home. A lot of figure skaters and gymnasts end up commuting as much as two hours each way to practice, which is just like mind blowingly insane, right, But they're like, well, if she wants to train with this coach, that's what she's got to do. So one of the girls that I used to coach, her family got her a driver. They were like, if you want to go and train with this coach, then we're getting you a driver because we can't. We cannot be driving an hour each way for a four hour practice. That's just not going to work. But we support you, So this is what we're going to do, you know. And then there's obviously all the like the carpool carpool Jenga, like how to make sure that everybody's covered. But I think that's something that you know. I was like, you get a driver, Well that's brilliant. But then that's just okay. She just knows like I get picked up from high school and then I get taken over here and that worked out really well for that family. Now she's competing at UCLA, so good investment, good investment for them. Yeah, although I mean that's the kind of thing I think a lot of people are like, oh, but it could pay off in X and that's I mean not necessarily going to be a helpful mindset in terms of the neutrality. Yes, and that's a great point. Okay, Yeah, because the chances of your little gymnast or your little you know, your little tennis player actually getting that full ride to UCLA or to Stanford or you know, are so extraordinarily slim that, you know, every recruiting expert will say academics is your best bet. You know, if you're trying to and if you're trying to get your kid a scholarship, then like I'm going to slap you right on the hand and be like neutral, Yeah, love your child, give them what you know, the opportunities, and then allow them to either you know, go after something or not. And then your job is to help them figure out the life lessons like, oh, you didn't get into that ap class. Okay, let's talk about what was within your control, and we're going to you know, if that's what you're aiming for and the next year, then this is what like what do you think needs to be done to allow that to happen. So letting them take the lead also is going to fend off burnout because if they feel like they're doing something for you or for their coach, or for that scholarship or for grandma, then they are ultimately a lot more likely to end up burned out. Yeah, and let's talk about the finances of this too, because you know, you said the parents' responsibility. The rides we've been talking with just sticks here. Get a driver if you can, obviously a better expensive as as training with you know, a fancy coach at a fancy facility, you know, the equipment whatever, or parental time that's invested in it. I mean, all of this is very expensive. I wonder if you see any guidelines here too that help for maintaining a sane family life when you are faced with these sorts of potential expenses. Yeah, so this is hard. This is so hard because you know, one of the things that we do is we make sure to not talk about finances on the phone when we're talking with the kid and the mom about you know, working with us, because it's again, we don't want to add extra pressure. And I think you know something I hear a lot of parents doing is like, we are spending so much on this, you better xyz, you better show up with a smile on your face or you better you know. Because of that, And so it's like I see these new families in like the Facebook groups that are like, we just signed up for the team, Like what should we expect? And they're like, expect to be broke, kiss your vacations. Goodbye. It's like this whole sort of like goodbye finances. It's now going into travel softball. My watch, just listening to me, creeping on me. But I mean, what what I would say is like, how can you be neutral if it's something that is legitimately a financial hardship? Can you still be neutral? Can you still be okay with your athlete being imperfect, with them not always having the capacity to perform, with them having a bad year? Can you the parent fill your own cup? Make sure that you are setting boundaries around like if we can't afford this, that's going to create that stress that's going to then make the whole experience, you know, the pressure that that child will feel to perform because they can't, well, my family can't afford college. I've talk to kids, my family can't afford college, so I have to get a scholarship or else. And anytime a kid is coming from I have to or else, they automatically ratchet their anxiety up ten times. So like, if you can't afford it, awesome, Like, don't make it about that, make it about like I spend too much on little kid ballet. But I'm not gonna like make you know, it's my choice as the grown up that I'm choosing to do this, So I gotta let that go and just allow the kid to have their experience and then learn those life lessons. And speaking of life lessons, when is it okay to quit? Because I'm sure we have all had the situation of a child who seems to be actually pretty good at something, yeah, then deciding for whatever reason that they do not wish to do it anymore. And is there a way to I mean, obviously you could say yes, and that's that's a full sentence right there. Yeah, but I think if there may be other issues going on then too. I mean, for instance, you know, are we also learning the lesson that if we feel anxiety about something, we walk away from it, And so there's complications here. So what is your sort of process for when it is okay to quit or how to quit something? Yes, so the this and I get both end of the spectrum on this question, the like is it okay to quit? And should we just quit for goodness sake? Can we just not do this anymore? And what I say is that it always should be the athlete's choice. You know, anyone who is above the age of ten, especially your adolescence. You know you're you're eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen year olds, they are being pulled in a social direction. Developmentally, their whole task in life is to figure out who am I? Who do I want to be? Those kids have got to have the agency to make their choice. You know, if you've said yes to the competitive team, the train has left the station and it is now the athlete's choice. And if they come home in tears, do not say should we just quit? It's okay, you can quit, because what the kid hears is you don't believe in me. You don't think I can get through this. And then on the other end, if they come home and say I don't want to do this anymore, that's when we got to send our ninja listening skills out and be these amazing empathetic parents who are like, we are responding so much money and so much time, and what do you mean quit? And you're so talented, you just like you find you're neutral and then you just listen and then you My favorite move for parent conversations like this is you literally repeat back the exact words. So they say, mom, I don't want to do this anymore, and you go, oh, little Jimmy, you don't want to do this anymore. And they're like, no because blah blah blah, and you go, oh because blah blah blah. And you so what you want to do is fix it and be like, but you're so talented, and we should do this, and we'll get you a new coach and we'll do this and we'll change it. But instead you just listen. And then what happens is that they hear their words coming back at them and they go, well that sounds kind of crazy. Wait a second when you put it that way, well, no, I don't totally hate it. And so then they you give them this safe space where they don't feel judged. They can talk about, actually, my coach doesn't believe in me, and my teammates are rude, and there's drama at school, and you get down to what's really going on, and if ultimately doing that, you know, really awesome mindful listening, you come up with like, my heart's not in it, and I really want to go to art class after school, then you can go, Okay, buddy, let's finish out the season. I got you, and if you change your mind, we can decide at that point. But that's where that that neutral, good listening can just change everything with your relationship with them and their relationship with their sport. Excellent advice. Well, we always end with a love of the week, so I could go first here because it's you know, just so you have a second to think about it. I'm going to say that my hair is a little messy because I just came from a massage in terms of filling one's own cup when dealing with various things in life, a couple of various kid situations going on, but it helps to feel a bit more relaxed. So I'm feeling like that is my love of the week currently. How about you, Rebecca, as I get online and book my next massage? Yes, good, good call. Mine is hiking. The sun is starting to come out in northern California and I have been on the mountain with my doggie, and I mean it just it feels a little indulgent to just disappear on a Saturday morning for like three hours with my girlfriend and my dog, and and then I come home ready to rock, like ready to mom, and like if you've got a mountain and a little bit of sunshine. Oh, hiking is so good. Hiking is good. We don't have many mountains around here, but maybe a little ways away, not big ones. A hill, Well, I climb the hill. Awesome. Well, Rebecca, tell our listeners where they can find you. They can find my coaching program at perform happy dot com. And we have tons of free resources for parents in our free Facebook group. It's called Sport Confidence Accelerator. Come check us out. It's a bunch of sport parents who are all just trying to hack this thing together. Excellent or repbacka thank you so much for joining us, thank you for having me. Well, that was great talking with Rebecca Smith about sports parenting. Please go check out her podcast. So, Sarah, this question from a listener, what are some good physical activities for kids who may not be naturally athletic or into team sports. The idea is that the listener has taken a long time to find exercise as an adult, that said listener does not hate, so hoping to keep children from hating exercise, but having similar genes. What would we suggest. I think a lot of the ones my kids do are actually kind of in that category. Not the soccer. Soccer especially like down here, there are so many kids who start intensively doing it at age four, and then by eight, if you haven't been regularly training, you're like behind the eight ball. Tennis can be like that too, but I feel like there's like a nice stratification in tennis where there's like the hardcore people and then there's like a lot of people that do it much more casually, and it's an individual sport, and I mean it's supposed to be kind of recreational. I have some patients really into golf, so my kids don't do that, but that's like a popular Florida thing. Horseback riding is an active thing that is completely different from a lot of sports my kids like ice skating. Annabelle especially really enjoyed that, and again she's not like into the team sports. And then Laura mentioned like parkour and ninja and I think those are like really really fun classes for kids. There's gyms down here that do like American Ninjas warrior style training and the goals like they're competing against themselves they're not trying to beat the other people. It's like what skills can you learn? Yeah, no, anything that it's it's more sort of individual oriented, like improving upon your own stuff as opposed to competing with anyone else. I mean, that's certainly one of the things we've liked about karate. I'm not sure how long we'll stay with it, but just you know it. The kids are constantly earning new belts and so it's giving them a new term goal. It's a ninety day goal. As we've heard from Tenise Shawalker a few weeks ago, that it's a great period of time for adults, and it turns out to be pretty good for kids too, Like it's long enough that you have to put some effort into it and learn multiple things to get there. But it's also, you know, not years, which a kid would lose interest quickly if you're not moving forward for years. So that's been something good with that. I you know, put in a word for rock climbing. Witch is again some you know, kids who might not have been great with their legs might be better with their arms. And it's more about and so nobody has got the upper body strength naturally. I guess as a little kid, and so you have to learn it no matter what you're coming from. And it's also about your level of kind of risk taking and comfort with that as opposed to how naturally strong you are, So some kids can get into it who are not necessarily into it, you know, other sports. I think I'm finding fencing to be pretty good to the place we're taking Sam. They run them around the post for thirty minutes at the start of the class, like, so they're just doing conditioning for the first thirty minutes, so that's good for aerobic and strength training, and then they have the swords whenever they're doing with those. I don't know the terminology. I'm just sort of sitting there on my laptop when it's going on. But you know, so it's a good combination of stuff and an intro class. You know. They obviously we're focused on safety, so you're not going to get hurt with doing that. So yeah, that's that's been a good one too. I think I'm would have trouble watching my kid with that long I'd have to look elsewhere, but I would let them do it. I would just not watch. But I think they have to be old like they have to be over eight to do it, and it's like old enough where you're not going to like whack people in the head with it when you're not supposed to be whacking anyone in the head with it, or accidentally, I didn't mean to do that, but it just happened, all right. Well, this has been Best of Both Worlds Episode two hundred and thirty eight. We've been talking with Rebecca Smith about sports parenting. We will be back next week with more on making work in life together. Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at the Underscore shoe Box on Instagram, and you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the Best of Both Worlds podcasts. Please join us next time for more on making work and life work together.