Katie Joins Hysteria with Alyssa Mastromonaco on Weird Republicans and Team USA

00:00:06
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Hysteria. I'm a Lissa Astramonico.

00:00:10
Speaker 2: And I'm Katie Couric Wo.

00:00:12
Speaker 1: Katie is back for another week. Lucky for her. There's a lot for us to get into. But before we do, Katie, I got to ask you, do you feel like the Olympics is having a moment?

00:00:24
Speaker 2: Definitely? You know, I've covered seven Olympics and Tokyo was a teeny bit of a bust, I think because of COVID. But Harris is just killing it. And obviously the women's gymnastics team and Simone Files and the Redemption Tour, which I hope they stop saying that.

00:00:44
Speaker 1: Why the Redemption Tour I hated so much? What do they need to be redeemed from? It's a comeback if anything.

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Speaker 2: I think it's because, as you know, Simone dropped out four years ago because she was just not feeling it and she wasn't feeling safe in her own body and something was off, and she got criticized by some jerky people, but look what she did to destigmatize mental health. And she's just she's truly amazing. Twenty seven years old. I interviewed her eight years ago and I remember I was at Yahoo and I did a headstand for her. What is wrong with me?

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Speaker 3: Listen?

00:01:24
Speaker 4: What? Wait?

00:01:25
Speaker 1: But Katie, this is my thing about the Olympics. I start watching the women, do you know uneven bars and their floor routine, and I'm like, I don't know, should I try a cartwheel?

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Speaker 2: No?

00:01:34
Speaker 1: The answer is no, I should not try a cartwheel.

00:01:36
Speaker 2: Well, I was a gymnast when I was little. I mean not a very good one, but I was you know, I could do handsprings and headsprings and stuff like that. But these women are just amazing. They're on koyable.

00:01:54
Speaker 1: My favorite thing that I have seen because I've gone deep, Katie, when I can't sleep because my high flashes are keeping me up.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, oh.

00:02:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw. I watched the press conference that the US Olympic women's gymnasts did, and I think it was Ali Reisman who was one of the reporters and asked, what's your slogan this year? Like, what's your motto? And they all huddled as if they didn't know what to do, and then they were like abbreviate it and like and simone didn't really know what that meant. The women gymnast's slogan is fuck around and find out, and they did. People fucked around and they found out. The Redemption Tour has received a gold medal.

00:02:34
Speaker 2: That is so funny, you know. I saw something online that they had come up with their motto, but I couldn't quite figure it out. So thank you for breaking that news to me, Alyssa, as you.

00:02:45
Speaker 1: See me once in a while, I can break something to Katie.

00:02:49
Speaker 2: Anyway. It's just been really, really fun to watch, and I think the NBC Olympics team has done an incredible job broadcasting the events. Mike Turrico, I did the opening ceremonies with him in pyeong Chang and that was really fun and he's a great guy. And I have to say I'm a little envious not to be in Paris.

00:03:12
Speaker 1: It Honestly, it does look like from the fashion to everyone who has shown up, it is. It is a real event.

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Speaker 2: It is, it is, and it's been a lot of fun also just watching it in my pajamas on the TV.

00:03:25
Speaker 1: This week, Katie and I talk about all the things we're seeing out on the campaign trail and weather Kamala might trick Trump into debating her. We also discussed the weirdness of the Maga movement, and a memoir we cannot wait to get our hands on. Welcome back to Hysteria, the podcast for childless cat ladies who loved Sweet Valley High. Katie, did you see the news Francine Pascal one hundred and eighty one books passed away this week?

00:03:55
Speaker 2: I didn't see that.

00:03:57
Speaker 1: Yep, I know, Sweet Valley High. It's like Francine Beverly Judy. What else? What else was there when we were growing up?

00:04:04
Speaker 2: Oh, that's so funny. I don't think I ever read Sweet Belly High.

00:04:08
Speaker 1: Well, it didn't come out till eighty three, so.

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Speaker 2: Oh, well, come on, I was at eighty three, I was gosh at thirty four something like that.

00:04:17
Speaker 1: Well, all right, it was a moment for some people.

00:04:20
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, Well may she rest in peace. And also the guy who invented Tira Massou died on Sunday. Really, yes, a chef from Italy who invented the delectable treat made of lady fingers, mars capone, cheese, coffee, cocoa, eggs, vanilla, and something else. I was reading all about him.

00:04:42
Speaker 1: Based on that recollection. Does that mean that there is an Instagram story of yours in our future where you make a tira massoux.

00:04:49
Speaker 2: No, because you know what, I don't really love tiramassou really I do you do?

00:04:54
Speaker 1: I like it. I find it to be a light, tasty dessert for like winter.

00:04:58
Speaker 2: Oh maybe, so I don't know if just would never be my first, second, or third choice.

00:05:03
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, well you know what our first choice here is. News. See there is a real segue. Okay, Katie, since you were here last week, so much has happened. First, we're breaking zoom from coast to coast.

00:05:16
Speaker 2: All right.

00:05:17
Speaker 1: The white ladies, white women got on zoom for Kamala, which, by the way, missed opportunity. Karen's for Kamala would have been a much funnier.

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Speaker 2: Funnier what have they funny?

00:05:27
Speaker 1: Wouldn't that be funny?

00:05:28
Speaker 2: I mean it's like hilarious.

00:05:31
Speaker 1: So the not the white women for Kamala raised about eleven million dollars. Over two hundred thousand women joined. Then the dudes, the white dudes got in on it. One hundred and three thousand.

00:05:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, Bridges made an appearance. Now. I just read a piece in the Atlantic knowing we were going to have all these discussions where someone was sort of turned off by sort of the racial segregation of these meetings. How do you feel about that? I mean, he did make some legitimate points. He said he appreciated being on white dudes for Kamala and some of the things they said, but he's like, why does it have to be black women, white women, white dudes, and why can't it just be dudes and women?

00:06:17
Speaker 1: Sure like agree, that's probably good, But since these were just exercises of showing up for her, I feel like, however, you want to show up, show up right? I mean, if you're going to raise eleven, if the white ladies who and like the white women was very specific, right, because white women over the past thirty forty years have been voting Republican, you know exactly.

00:06:40
Speaker 2: I think he probably missed the memo that Hillary Clinton lost white women, right, and that this was a little tongue in cheek, as was white dudes. But I thought he made some valid points. But anyway, it makes sense. How was the white women and were you on that car? And what was it? Like?

00:07:01
Speaker 1: I was on the white women and it kept crashing because so many people joined it, and so I popped back on as as pink the singer was speaking from her from thirty thousand feet over Sweden. I think from her concert and the thing that I appreciate and like the person whoever wrote that in The Atlantic, like I kind of get it. But the vibes on the White Women call and on the other calls, I would imagine, based on Bradley Whitford being interviewed today talking about the White Dude's Call, which he said was a glorious rainbow of Beij's, is like people are coming with the best of intentions, They're excited, they want to support I think a lot of people who realize that maybe they didn't do everything they could in twenty sixteen. You know, if you've been starting to feel guilt. Guilt, Yeah, and if you've been feeling that guilt, get out there, get on a call, donate money, do some GOTV put alongside out front, Like people who maybe were a little reserved last time, I think are just running through the tape this time.

00:08:05
Speaker 2: I agree. And that brings me to another issue that I thought we could talk about, Alyssa. And this is the whole idea of Democrats now calling Trump and jd Vance weird. And I know it's something that you're interested in, and Tom Friedman wrote a short column about it. I guess Tim Waltz is that.

00:08:23
Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:08:23
Speaker 2: I don't know that much about Tim Watz. I feel like he might be the VP choice.

00:08:27
Speaker 1: He's been out there killing it. I mean, he's been everywhere. I don't see. I'm going to say I don't think he's the VP choice because he's been doing more Cable than anybody else on the list. And I'm like, if he's the choice, I don't know. I think I would probably stay off cable. But I saw, should we talk a little bit about what Tom Friedman said?

00:08:45
Speaker 2: Yes, let's talk about that and then we'll talk about the VP stakes. So do you want to read any here? Yeah?

00:08:50
Speaker 1: So here so so. Friedman basically said Democrats were going to regret calling Trump weird, and he said, quote, it is now a truism that if Democrats have hope of carrying key swing states and overcoming Trump's advantages in the electoral college, they have to break through to white, working class, non college educated men and women, who, if they have one thing in common, feel denigrated and humiliated by the Democratic liberal college educated elites. And he then declared it the dumbest message that we could seize on the Democrats could seize on right now. Okay, Alyssa of many years ago would agree with him. Alissa of Man of many years ago couldn't believe that Trump used the White House for his convention. You know, like, I am a person of rules in the establishment. I'm a basic bitch, Katie, and I know that about myself. But this is working because you know what, they're fucking weird, Like this is all weird, jd Vance. If jd Vance had just been malevolent, right, if he had just said these things about catwomen and how people who don't have children don't have a stake in the country, which, by the way, may Or Pete crushing the response to that, saying all over the place, saying when I was in Afghanistan and didn't have kids, I more than had a stake in this country. And I think that jd Vance And here's why I also think. I also think that Tom Friedman might be wrong. So jd Vance could have Trey Goudie on Fox actually gave him the running room to be like, hey, did you really mean that? And he was like, fuck yeah, I meant that, Like he doubled down on it. And called Jennifer Aniston like disgusting for her coming out against him and saying his comments were cruel. And so I think.

00:10:37
Speaker 2: We also doubled down with Megan Kelly and by ps, Donald Trump doubled down on his Christian remarks with Laura Ingram and never really answered the question as far as what he meant by that that if they voted, they'd never have to vote again. I just, honestly, I still don't know what he meant, and I'm more confused than ever. But go on.

00:11:01
Speaker 1: No, But so here's how I see it. We're using a word like weird. Weird is not the worst word on the planet, you know. It is for the things that Republicans have come out with and said, and the fact that so many Republicans agree they're being weird, like even Megan, not Meghan Kelly, Meghan McCain was on a podcasting what are you doing? Stop? It's not that they are coming out and staking out policy positions and saying this is what we believe and will debate whoever wants to debate us. They're saying that women who don't have kids aren't people. They're doubling down on it. They are saying that, like, there's nothing that they're saying it is essential to the election, that's informing voters. It's this weird. It's weird, Katie. That's so. I feel like if we were calling them weird and what they were doing was something other than weird, I would agree with him. But in this instance, I think also that a lot of people haven't been able to put their finger on what is so uncomfortable about all this, and calling it weird just kind of works.

00:12:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I also think two things can be true.

00:12:13
Speaker 4: Right.

00:12:14
Speaker 2: You can think their behavior and their rhetoric is weird, but you can also do a better job of reaching out to disaffected voters who are non college educated white people, I think non college educated white men and women in particular, who feel left out. And I think Pete is really good at that, and I think he could lean into that more. And I think that there needs to be a greater connection between the working class and the Democratic Party, because, let's face it, the list of the Democrats kind of lost the working class and it was never that way during all my years of covering politics. I mean, you had of the teamsters at the RNC, you have people buying into this notion that Republicans care about dinner table issues much more than Democrats, and these narratives I think have become too deeply entrenched about liberal college educated elites who are condescending. Probably started with the deplorable comment that Hillary Clinton, I'm sure regrets saying now, but I feel like they can't just give up on that voting block. They need to make a much stronger connection to working men and women, working classmen and women, the middle class has been obviously gutted, but saying hey, we care about you, we care about your issues. We know a lot of things have really been hard globalization, you know, manufacturing, but this is what Pete is good at this too, this is what we're going to do, and this is how we're going to help. I just want to see her with a welding hat on working with regular Joe's well.

00:14:02
Speaker 1: And I think so here, it's interesting that you say that, Katie, because a couple things. One, I feel like, you know, we've been dealing with Trump since twenty fifteen at this point, right, that's right, nine years and long years. Nine Look at these crows me and I think that part of the problem. On the one hand, Democrats need to be doing a better job. But also the whole foundation of Trump's Kennidy sees have just been grievance, Like, if you're doing badly, it's not because of what's happening in this country, it's because something's been taken away from.

00:14:37
Speaker 2: You, Right, you know, it's their bad people to blame, Like Bernie says in his book The Age of Grievance, which I highly recommend. I love Frank Brune, shameless plug. I don't get anything from this. I just happened to really really like him and it's a great book, right.

00:14:53
Speaker 1: And so it's it's he has doubled down on that. And then also things that Democrats were really good, like do you remember go back and this again not shameless plug, but Barack Obama in two thousand and seven, in two thousand and eight, it was such a different time of campaigning because we were insurgents, so we had to work for every vote, which meant town halls. Katie, when is the last time you saw a town hall on television televised, no filtered questions. And that's where the moments come from. Right, That's when John McCain had his moment where the woman was like Barack Obama's dumba do that?

00:15:30
Speaker 2: He said, I do not say that he's an Americans. I know. I love that flip. I've gone back and watched that. Everyone should see John McCain, as Alyssa said, stopping someone from Colleen Barack Obama, what did she say, a Muslim He's going to destroy our country? Blah blah blah. And he interrupted her and said wait, stop, and he basically dressed her down. And I loved him for that.

00:15:57
Speaker 1: It was a lesson in civility. But also you saw both Obama and McCain outside their comfort zone, close to people, talking to people. And because of COVID, because of things that have happened in the world, we're not seeing that because politicians aren't doing that, which means they're not having those interactions which are so informative.

00:16:20
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, Kamala Harris did have that huge rally in Atlanta.

00:16:24
Speaker 1: Which was amazing last night.

00:16:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I thought her speech was really good, and I think she has come a long way in terms of her presentation, or maybe she just didn't have enough opportunities to kind of be herself in a very public forum. But I would love to see more town hall meetings. But gosh, that's just not going to happen, is it.

00:16:48
Speaker 1: I probably well, especially she. I mean, Kamala has ninety some days at this point.

00:16:53
Speaker 2: So maybe she will. Maybe she'll do something on CNN or on Nbcory or see.

00:16:59
Speaker 1: Her own even a like when in Obama Land we had town halls that we set up people could ask their questions. But for her, so there was an interesting thing just to go to that rally last night for a minute. She I gotta tell you, Katie, Look, vice presidents never have huge moments. That's not the function of being vice president. But when she stood up on stage last night, ten thousand people megan the stallion as her opening act, and then said, if you're gonna, if you've got something to say, say it to my face. And I was like, oh my god. Do you think she will be able to goad Trump into a debate?

00:17:39
Speaker 2: Maybe so? I guess the last time we talked, he was saying it should be on Fox right then. I think since then, haven't they said they're not going to debate?

00:17:50
Speaker 1: He yes, Well, He's like, I don't know, I don't think so, you know, this is he's been very obfuse skating, you know about whether he's going to do it. If she goes out there every day and is like, say it to my face. I swear i'd make T shirts that said say it to my face. I would I would have people if I were the Karras campaign. They have enough to do, they don't need my advice. I would have. I would have placards outside his rallies that say say it to my face, because I do think he'll lose his shit and decide to debate her, for better or worse for him.

00:18:22
Speaker 2: That would be interesting. It's like Gretchen Whitmer when he called her that woman from Michigan and there were T shirts made that said that woman from Michigan and they sold like, you know, crazy in the state. So yeah, maybe that will happen. I don't know. I wish it would because I feel like the American people deserve that.

00:18:44
Speaker 1: They do. I want to see a debate. I love this is a real deep cut. But back in the early two thousands, when I worked for John Carey, I watched the Carrie Weld debates. You know, when he debated Bill Weld. There were like ten debates. It's like, let's see who who's got it. You know, we deserve to see.

00:19:02
Speaker 2: But also you do want to hear about policy, you know, you do want to hear ask some interesting and important questions about all kinds of things, right, And I just do feel like the more I've been reading, the more I'm sensing and I could live in a bubble Alyssa, maybe I do, but I get the sense that right now in twenty twenty four, Donald Trump and Shady Vance are really out of step with the American people on reproductive rights. They're out of step on like the moronic thing he said about childless women and cat ladies. I mean, if you dissect that, he's so out of touch with what a family looks like today, what branded families look like, what gay families look like, what people the heartbreak of not being able to have a child. He feels very tone deaf to me on so many of these issues, on whether it's not you know, you should stay in an abusive relationship, right, and you know, all these other points that he's making. Obviously when it comes to reproductive rights, he's not. He's out of step with the majority of Americans. So they they they're starting to feel which is interesting given the previous candidate, Joe Biden, who I think very highly of. But they're starting to feel old and crusty and out of it.

00:20:32
Speaker 1: Yes, and you know what, not nimble. Like the thing that I have been loving about watching the Harris campaign. They're moving at a clip like they are building the plane as they are flying the plane. And they are still able to communicate with people. Her ads, her new ad which came out yesterday, which is a take on a Trump ad. The social media that they're doing, I.

00:20:56
Speaker 2: Fell they're on fire. My twenty eight year old daughter was like a social media presence is amazing every level. And they're very they're very clever, they're very funny. Who's doing that, by the way, do you know?

00:21:11
Speaker 1: I don't know, but they they deserve a raise. I am reposting a lot of things which I tend to. I'm like, you know, because I also walk a fine line of having worked on so many campaigns and knowing one hundred days luck can happen, right, and so I never want to get into this like we're good, We're good. They're killing it. They're killing it right now. There's a long way to go.

00:21:37
Speaker 2: Oh.

00:21:38
Speaker 1: One thing we have to talk about They announced yesterday that they will be doing an event with their VP pick next Tuesday in Philadelphia. So here are my questions for you. Okay, okay, So they're doing it in Philly. Do you think this is a headfake and it is not Shapiro? Or is it like weird to do it in Philly and it not be Shapiro?

00:22:01
Speaker 2: Is he like I think it's a head fake? You do? I do?

00:22:05
Speaker 1: Do you think it's Gretchen Whitmer. No, they're hitting the ground running. They're doing a battleground station.

00:22:11
Speaker 2: They going to set. Are they tell me the states they're going to, Michigan, Wisconsin? Are they going to Arizona.

00:22:16
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, North Carolina, Georgia, Nevada, Arizona. I think I got that right. Yeah, Which to me, that says hustle there, which I love to see, you know. I like to see people who are working for every vote, which I also think shows the American people she's hard. I think that fundamentally, the American people want to know who's ever going to be in that office is a hard worker. And I think that this shows that she's busting ass.

00:22:45
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think so too. And let's talk about the vice presidential pick. Okay, so Roy Cooper of North Carolina pulled out yep, Andy Basher is in Mark Kelly is in YEP. Josh Shapiro is in YEP. And cham Whitmer has basically said no shots out.

00:23:10
Speaker 1: I think she said that she didn't want to be considered. And I think the last person who's been on the on all the big screens is Tim Walls from Minnesota.

00:23:18
Speaker 2: Now he's kind of a late comer to the list. Darkly a little bit about Tim Walls and why he's suddenly everywhere, And you said he's done a lot of cable, so you say that probably indicates he's not.

00:23:32
Speaker 1: I think that's a if I had a spreadsheet, I'd be like, Okay, too much cable means he's probably knows it's not him. Right. Oh and Mayor Pete, I think Mayor Pete is still sort of top tier Tim Walls. Honestly, I remember Katie. Here's another deep cut. I remember Tim Walls specifically because if in two thousand and six, when John Carey was still thinking of running for president again, he made a comment that was a little taken out of context, a little bit of a gaff where he basically said smart people don't end up in Iraq, meaning if you're smart and educated, you you'll end up in the military. And that was the end for him, remember, and that was it. He was on his way to do an event for Tim Walls and Ram Emmanuel, who was head of the D Triple C at the time, called me because I was Barack Obama's political director in the Senate and was like, honey, honey, you got to get him. You got to get Barack to Minnesota. And that's literally my biggest memory with Tim Walls. But he you know, he was in Congress, he is governor. He has done amazing things in Minnesota. Minnesota has had such progressive policies put into place in the last couple of years, and he's come out is this just like rock Star attack Dog, but like if Santa Claus weren' an attack dog, right, like super Charming.

00:24:53
Speaker 2: How old is he?

00:24:55
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I think probably he's sixty sixty. He's sixty.

00:24:58
Speaker 2: He went to Minnesota to State University, and he wrote on et you can fifty nine minutes ago. You can feel the excitement. People get out there and get engaged. Let's win this thing in November.

00:25:10
Speaker 1: See get out there?

00:25:12
Speaker 2: Tim interesting. So, I mean, so do you think he's like one of the top two or three choices.

00:25:20
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think there's probably like a top five right now, and maybe he's in the top five. But you and I both know, as these things go, the only person who really knows is Kamala and the people who are vetting these people.

00:25:33
Speaker 2: Right what do you think of Andy Basheer? I know he's well thought of.

00:25:37
Speaker 1: He is really a nice man. He's done great work in Kentucky, you know, But I don't know if and I always feel so badly ever saying anything unkind, I'm not sure what he adds to the ticket, do you know what I mean? Like he's lovely, he's not that well known. Like the thing about only.

00:25:58
Speaker 2: Howayyads handsome white man?

00:26:01
Speaker 1: He is, but Jos Shapiro is a handsome white man. Pete Bootage is a handsome white man.

00:26:06
Speaker 2: No, that's true, but Josh is Jewish and Pete is gay. I mean, it's I hope that I hope that that doesn't have an impact, but I have to wonder.

00:26:16
Speaker 1: It's here, is the thing, with all that we have going on, I will always I think, I oh, I think whoever is the easiest, with only ninety some days to go, whoever is the easiest to introduce to the American people, right? And I think the two people easiest to introduce are Mark Kelly, fighter pilot astronaut Giffords, member of the NRA.

00:26:48
Speaker 2: Yes, And I think we talked about this last week, or I did with somebody, and seventy four percent of n r A members actually favor stricter gun laws, which is something we need to focus on. And I thought it was really interesting, by the way, just apropos of this that Kamala Harris said she was going to ban ak forty.

00:27:07
Speaker 1: Sevens, which is great.

00:27:10
Speaker 2: I thought that was great too, but very ballsy so early in the campaign.

00:27:14
Speaker 1: You know what this is. I think that she, if I'm her, I'm leaving it all on the field. This isn't a time for equivocating or hedging. She's like, here's where we are. Here are the differences.

00:27:27
Speaker 2: Right.

00:27:27
Speaker 1: If her job is to show contrasts between she and Donald Trump, she's doing it right.

00:27:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well you think it's going to be I thought for a long time it was Mark Kelly, and I would say we're friendly, and I was texting him like so, and he obviously wasn't divulging anything. He said, I'm laying low in London. And then he was out in my neck of the woods this weekend and I was hoping I would see him, but we didn't were not able to get together. I'm dying to talk to him. I really like him. I think like his His CV is sort of just what the doctor ordered. I think. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if you will have to.

00:28:17
Speaker 1: Be texting next week when the announcement comes.

00:28:20
Speaker 2: I know. I mean, somebody's probably gonna find out and break the story. I think Andrew and Mitchell did for somebody not too long ago. Did Andrew break the Sarah Palin? I don't remember, but she's really good and very plugged in, so I'm sure it'll get out somehow, some way. So I just don't know. But I'm excited for whoever it is, and I'm excited to see them together on the trail and to see the energy that they're going to generate. So I really don't know.

00:28:55
Speaker 1: I think you know what I dare say, it's nothing but upside of all those people on the list like if the lists were hearing on TV or true, she's got an embarrassment of riches.

00:29:07
Speaker 2: There was an article that said, why not Gretchen Whitmer? But I think I think listen, If that's a bridge too far, I'm afraid.

00:29:18
Speaker 1: So wait, Okay, So there's always an October surprise, right, Not always, but it is. It is something people love to talk about. And I saw this week that Katie Milania Trump has a book coming out this fall. I know, do you think she could be the October surprise?

00:29:37
Speaker 2: I can't imagine. I can't imagine that she would do that. What do you think about the October surprise that he drops jd Vance? A couple of people have asked me, do you think that Donald Trump would possibly switch his vice presidential candidate because he made this calculation when he thought Joe Biden was going to be the nominee. I think that's very unlikely. What do you think.

00:30:06
Speaker 1: I think it's unlikely, but not would not put it past him, right, Like, I did a lot of research on this, trying to check out if it would be possible. And there's some back and forth about how most ballots are printed by September sixth and a lot of states, and therefore it would have to happen before then. But look, Katie, he is a man who acts out of desperation and if he sees it falling apart and he thinks that that is the thing that will get him attention. Because right now, Katie, no one gives a shit about him. I mean, the reason that I think they keep talking about child as catwomen is because they're like, I don't know, all attention is good attention, and I don't know, I don't know.

00:30:47
Speaker 2: I think it's also so interesting that the head of Project twenty twenty five step down, and I think that that is because it's been a very powerful motivator for people, and Democrats are really leaning into it in terms of talking about what a second Trump term would look like. And of course we saw that Donald Trump was distancing himself from Project twenty twenty five, and I think he realizes it is no bueno when it comes to getting voters. And you know, I was reading this morning that still a lot of the architects of this whole plan and this sort of massive overhaul of government and policy and getting rid of the Department of Education and getting rid of career politicians and various departments. I think I think that's still going to happen, whether this guy resigns or not. But I think it's signals increasing discomfort with the Republican Party that this Project twenty twenty five is gaining traction and is too extreme for a lot of Americas.

00:32:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, Katie. With that, we're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, we'll answer some of your questions.

00:32:07
Speaker 4: Listeners.

00:32:31
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Hysteria, where we have the best listeners. Listeners, we know you're just as excited as I am to have Katie on the podcast this week, so we thought this would be a great opportunity to bring you guys in. We put the call out for questions and we're going to answer them now. Also, the omniscient voice you hear asking us questions is our producer, Caroline Restin, Caroline, take it away.

00:32:53
Speaker 5: I want it to be like I wanted to write in that copy. The godlike voice you're hearing is our producer, that Caline.

00:32:59
Speaker 1: Voice of God, the voice of God.

00:33:01
Speaker 5: Okay, so our first question is one, and how did you two first meet?

00:33:07
Speaker 2: Katie?

00:33:07
Speaker 1: Do you remember I do?

00:33:09
Speaker 2: Oh? Was it when I came to the Obama headquarters in New York, when I was anchoring the CBS Evening News, I knew I had to go and suck up to you people so I could try to get an interview with then candidate or then Senator Obama. And it was really fun because there were so many, you know, just great young people who were just working away. I think I met you there, Melissa, right.

00:33:37
Speaker 1: We did, and I'll always my parents were so excited because Katie Karic the Katie KRK, and my mom was like, my mom goes, why did you wear horizontal stripes? And so that was the takeaway. And she doesn't listen to this podcast, so she won't be mad at me.

00:33:53
Speaker 2: That is so funny. Is your mom very critical?

00:33:57
Speaker 1: I mean, she's my mom.

00:34:00
Speaker 2: Okay, enoughset, Okay, Caroline, Katie.

00:34:04
Speaker 5: You are also currently wearing horse not in.

00:34:07
Speaker 1: The same way. Not in the same way. Mine were very different.

00:34:14
Speaker 5: Okay. So our next question is having a crush on a guy when we're both middle aged just feels so embarrassing.

00:34:24
Speaker 1: Lol.

00:34:25
Speaker 5: That said, I'd love to hear what you've enjoyed the most about falling in love as grown ass adults.

00:34:31
Speaker 1: So I would say. The thing about it is is that I liked myself and I was very aware of who I was when I met David, and so he got the real mate, you know, he got one hundred percent this is how I am. I didn't put on any errors for him. I didn't try to be you know, cuter than I was or funnier than I was. It was just me and so I feel like we had a great foundation because there was none of the like when you're younger, I feel like you're just not as secure. And so I was like, either he likes me for me or he doesn't. And he did, And now he's having shoulder surgery tomorrow, and I'm going to have to, like, you know, take care of him.

00:35:11
Speaker 2: Tell me, what what does David do?

00:35:14
Speaker 1: He he was we met because he oh we met Katie because he was Harry Reid's chief of staff when Reid was leader. Oh wow, yeah, yeah.

00:35:24
Speaker 2: And that's how long have you been together?

00:35:27
Speaker 1: For? Fourteen years?

00:35:29
Speaker 2: Oh?

00:35:29
Speaker 1: My gosh, yeah, fourteen years, married for ten.

00:35:32
Speaker 2: Oh that's so nice. You know, my story is very similar, actually, Alyssa. I think, you know, my husband died when I was forty one, and he was forty two, and we had two little girls, Ellie and Carrie, and they were six and two when he died. And I took a couple of years to start dating. And I went out and had some long term relationships, you know, fun, but ultimately not for the not for the long run, not for the ages. And I was gosh, I think I was fifty five, and I was always very intentional about dating. I always knew I love to be married. I love having a partner. You know, I'm not saying everyone needs one to be happy and fulfilled. I don't believe that. But for me personally, I love the companionship of a partner. And so I was when I met my current and hopefully last husband, John Molner, I was very much comfortable in my own skin and very much myself as well, because I was God, you know, at fifty five, you better start to get comfortable with you you are. So he kind of liked me. He got, you know, the whole thing, you know, he got the true me too, and and that's why I think, and I got the true him. I think. So that isn't a very good story though, no it is.

00:37:09
Speaker 1: No, but I think it is because there is a when you're younger, you're still figuring out who you are.

00:37:16
Speaker 2: And I also was insecure. I think I was insecure and I was, you know, and I think I dated a couple of guys who played games and I didn't like that at all. Who were you know? I never knew kind of where they stood, and I always felt like uneasy and off balance, right. And when you find someone and you can really be who you are, your true self, and they love you for warts and all, it is so liberating, and you know it's someone you can feel one hundred percent comfortable with and like, even if you're going to be an asshole one day, or even if you're going to do something weird, you know, you know that there's something deep, deep and a foundation of love that can get you through all those rocky times.

00:38:10
Speaker 1: I agree.

00:38:11
Speaker 2: Can I just add something, please? Please, don't be embarrassed to have a crush on someone. It's so fun. I go early, those early weeks and months of a relationship, because let's face it, you know, things do get a little more or normalized through the years. But it's so fun. There's nothing like it. And enjoy it. Enjoy it, don't be embarrassed and also make sure that person likes you for the right reasons, just like David and John like us for the right reasons.

00:38:43
Speaker 5: That's great advice. Also to plug Alyssa's book, who thought this was a good idea? Your her like beginning of her love story with her husband is very very sweet.

00:38:55
Speaker 2: Okay, well, I'm going to have to read your book, Alissa.

00:38:57
Speaker 1: Caroline, I'll send you a cop.

00:39:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, and by the way, have you read my book, Alissa?

00:39:04
Speaker 1: I interviewed you, Katie. I read your book twice. I read your book twice and have so many post it notes in it. I also listened to the audio book.

00:39:11
Speaker 2: So you just I forgot you interviewed me. Sorry, you sit back for breakfast.

00:39:20
Speaker 5: Okay, next question, I think.

00:39:22
Speaker 2: Caroline Caroline has beautiful teeth.

00:39:27
Speaker 5: Thanks so much.

00:39:29
Speaker 1: The most fun episode ever.

00:39:31
Speaker 5: You know, I've been told that a lot, and not to brag, but I think it's because I've recently learned I have an unusually large mouth.

00:39:39
Speaker 2: So a lot of smile.

00:39:41
Speaker 1: Show. Oh yeah, your teeth show yeah, thank.

00:39:44
Speaker 2: You show They're lovely.

00:39:47
Speaker 5: Thank you so much, Thank you, Thank you for my mom for paying for my braces. Okay, So next question, I think there has been a lot of talk about risk. What is a risk you're glad you took and a risk that paid off? What is a risk you're glad you took even though it didn't work out, And how did that inform your approach to making choices.

00:40:08
Speaker 1: Let's see a risk I'm glad I took. So when I was in the White House, the position of White House Deputy Chief came available, and Barack Obama and the senior staff were like, Alyssa, you're going to do this. And I was coming up with every other person who I thought should do it because I was nervous to make a mistake. And my boss and mentor and sense to this day, Pete Rouse, called me into his office and he said, God damn it, Alyssa, you're the only one here who thinks you can't do it. You need to shut up and take the job. And I did it, and frankly, I think I was excellent at it. I think I was born for that job.

00:40:47
Speaker 2: I loved it, and I think for me, I think a risk I'm glad I took was starting my own media company. Yeah, you know, I think I realized, and that came from a risk that I took that I have mixed feelings about. I'm glad I did it in a way, but also sad and did it in a way which was going to be the anchor of the CBS Evening News. And I think one of the things I have learned, and luckily technology advanced along with me, is that I didn't necessarily want to be controlled by the man or the men who had this ability to make decisions not always based on merit right, And that I wanted to be the boss of me, that I wanted to lift other people up, give them opportunities be kind of on the same wavelength as they are. And that's why I'm really happy that I started with my husband a media company which unfortunately I don't like the name of it, Katie Kirk Media. But everyone said, you know, you should take advantage, you should take advantage of the fact that you're you know, your name is well known, and so you know that that was hard and I couldn't have done it without my really smart, business savvy husband, and so I'm really glad. And now we have like forty employees, we've brought in a lot of revenue, we've done it for six years, we're thriving, We're kind of like that little engine that could. And I have the freedom to do things like this Alyssa, or to call James Carville and say, hey, will you do an interview with me?

00:42:29
Speaker 1: Or and are you enjoying yourself? And I am, yeah.

00:42:33
Speaker 2: And I have so much more flexibility. I'm not going to lie like sometimes I work miss working for a big news organization, you know, especially like when there's a convention or when there's the Olympics. But you know, I also am excited to see other people take those opportunities and run with them. So yeah, I think that's a risk that I'm glad I took.

00:42:57
Speaker 5: Okay, our next question involves both of your books. Can you both talk about your writing process and balancing vulnerability and funny anecdotes with advice and accounts. How did you develop your author voice and style? And do you plan on writing another book? This is for both of you.

00:43:15
Speaker 2: I'll start with this one. I basically tried to write the way I think and the way I talk. I had a really wonderful collaborator helping me, who I think we had very similar sensibilities, were about the same age we came up in the media business around the same time. So I think we had kind of this common historical but vocabulary, if you will, about sort of the way things were and the way things have become. So I would basically just write big chunks. I would remember events like when I interviewed Bob Dole and he got really mad at me when I asked him about tobacco not being addictive and the money he was getting from the tobacco industry. I ended up not keeping that in the book because it was getting too long. But I would really just write things, and then I would look at old speeches or I never journaled. I'm just not the journaling type, unfortunately, But I would just remember I do have a good memory, and I was prompted by rewatching interviews I did or setting myself back in time. And there's some things that I think are so crystallized in your memory it's easy to retrieve them. But I kind of just saw things as chapters in my life, and I didn't necessarily do it in order, but I would do like today, I'm going to write about when I decided to go to CBS and what that process was like, or when I was pregnant with Ellie and I got offered this job on the Today Show. So I would just kind of write about those things and then we would weave them together. That's how I did it, how about you, Melissa?

00:44:55
Speaker 1: That was so when I first started writing my book, I was the process was awful because I was trying to write a book like a book that had been written before, right, and that's just not who I am, Like a DC Washington, you's someone who worked in the White House memoir and I thought it should be serious, and I'm not serious. That is not why Barack Obama hired me. Like I am good at my job, but I'm not uptight, I guess. And I was trying to write a book that was coming across as very serious, and so I really struggled. And then, funny enough, through collective bargaining at Vice, I met my co writer, this woman Lauren Eiler Love You Low, and she was exactly what I needed because she's like mmm mmmm mmm, She's like, write down your memory. What are your favorite memories? Your memories will inform certain things. And so I took all this time with note cards and I wrote wrote down my memories. And then we went back to Hashet and we were like, actually, this is the book we want to write, and they were like, yes, this is it. Like I had sent them some versions that I had written that I had done myself without Lauren's help. And I decided that the best way to get people to want to read my book is to just in the same way Katie that we met our husbands when we were feeling like totally like ourselves. I was like, either I have to be totally myself in this book. I have to tell the horrible story about how I almost shit myself when I met the Pope, about how you know, of all of the friendships, the things that if anyone was going to buy my book, and I decided who I wanted to write it for, which were people who grew up like I did you know, my dad worked at IBM, my mom worked at the high school. I had no adjacency to politics.

00:46:43
Speaker 2: You know.

00:46:44
Speaker 1: They just basically sent me to college and said do something you love. And I met Bernie Sanders and that was and like, so to just tell people that I took these risks, you know that I didn't know. I mean, Bernie Sanders was just this man I saw on TV. But he spoke to me, and so I I think that Like when I wrote the book, I was so proud of it when I was done, because when I read the audiobook, uh, when I was recording it, I was like, this totally sounds like me. Like if someone sat down across the table for me and asked me these questions, this is how I would say it. And funny enough, I couldn't have done that without Lauren because I kept trying to edit myself and she was like, no, let Alyssa be Alyssa, like just do it. And that was so when people read it and they compliment me, I actually take the compliment really seriously because it actually is me.

00:47:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think you and I probably were infected by the same disease as women of a certain age. I'm much older than you are, Alyssa, But how old are you?

00:47:41
Speaker 1: By the way, I'm forty eight.

00:47:43
Speaker 2: Okay, so I'm almost twenty years older than you are. But I think that we you know, I think women in the workplace have to think try so hard to be taken seriously, right yea? That, yes, that was a dilemma for me my whole life. You know, because I actually am a serious person. I care deeply about issues, but I also have this fun, funny side, and so I think it's so easy, especially when you're a public figure, quite frankly, that people want to put you in a box. You're a serious news person or you're a fluffy morning show host, and I think people have a hard time embracing you know, we contain the idea of containing multitudes, like Walt Weightman talks about. And so I'm sure that you had some of those things in your head when you were writing a book, like I'm writing a policy book. And I did too, Like I wanted to be received as a serious journalist, but I also wanted people to get to know who I was deep down inside. And you know, I included a lot of things that weren't very flattering about myself. That I felt territorial about my job at times, you know, and that when people came around that I didn't mentor maybe you know, people who were thrust out there to replace me in my job. And I talked about this whole dilemma with Ruth Bader Ginsberg that got a lot of pushback from journalists, but you know, I wanted to say everybody has these ethical dilemmas at some point, and journalists have to weigh things all the time, and why not, you know, open the curtain and say these are some of the things that happen to people, you know, all people. And I remember being interviewed by a writer about the book and I said, have you ever had kind of an ethical thing? And she said, yeah, I interviewed someone and somebody came out afterwards and said, please don't include that. And I said, did you? And they she said no. So you know, we struggle with these things, and so I tried to be very vulnerable. Sometimes I feel like maybe I opened myself up to too much criticism, but I also wanted to interrogate things like female competition and what does it look like versus male competition, and do it in a really honest, transparent way.

00:50:16
Speaker 1: And that is what I loved about your book and why I read it and also listen to it, because it was complicated, right. You could have done a glossy, distilled, edited to shit book that was like here's my life is Katie Couric, But you were like, here's my I mean, Katie. I laughed, I cried. I read it, and then I was like, that wasn't even enough. I have to listen to it, so to me it was a ten out of ten.

00:50:41
Speaker 2: Well, thank you, And I think the lesson here from both of our stories is, you know, you have to be sort of you have to embrace who you are and be radically honest if you want your story to resonate with someone else, because everything else feels, as you said, glossed over and baky and authentic. And I think that's the worst thing to be. That's you know, who wants who wants that, who wants to write it, and who wants to read it.

00:51:12
Speaker 5: I think the answer is Malania Trump there. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break, but we'll be back with more questions.

00:51:48
Speaker 1: Okay, we're back before we keep the Q and A going some announcements for the class. It can be so frustrating to see what the world should look like and feeling like each day it gets further and further out of reach. But as Stacy Abrams would say, one piece isn't going to fix the whole puzzle. But that doesn't mean we can't do something somewhere soon. On her new Crooked show, Assembly Required with Stacy Abrams, Stacy is joined by organizing experts and progressive leaders to break down the biggest issues in politics right now, crowdsourcing solutions and sharing stories of action that will make you feel less alone and help motivate your friends and family to make a difference. You can listen to the trailer right now wherever you get your podcasts, and be sure to subscribe so you don't miss the first episode of Assembly Required with Stacy Abrams dropping August fifteenth. The election is just about one hundred days away, and whether you're falling out of a coconut tree or anxiously clinging to one, now is the time to volunteer, donate, and canvas your ass off for progressive candidates and initiatives up and down the ballot. Sign up for a shift at vote Saveamerica dot com and pick up a canvassing kit for yourself or maybe for a friend in a swing state. It has all the essentials for a day of door knocking, including a clipboard, pens, band aids, a toe bag, and more. The Crooked Store gives back with every order to support organizations doing incredible work across the US to make sure every voice can be heard. Head Tocrooked dot com slash store to get your kit.

00:53:08
Speaker 5: Nown Okay, we're back. We have a few more questions for you all. These all lean a little more political, but I will start with an easy one. If you had a chance to interview Avonka Trump, what would you ask her?

00:53:23
Speaker 1: I think I would ask her, who are you.

00:53:29
Speaker 2: Like?

00:53:30
Speaker 1: Who are you? Tell us who you are like? I would I would welcome. I don't think it's a question someone would expect, and I would really be interested in what came top of mind.

00:53:43
Speaker 2: I think that's a really good question. Honestly, I think that's who are you? Who are you? I also think I think it would be interesting if she would be honest about why they kind of disappear from the public eye and what was the hardest part of having a father who was president and then was not re elected. I think I'm not sure, as you know, I said, she would be honest in her answer, but I would kind of like to to understand her decision to kind of move to Florida, get away from all the people who you know, who were no longer her friends. I get the impression she was sort of shunned by her her.

00:54:33
Speaker 1: Pose of her society pals.

00:54:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and you know, just on a human level, what the whole experience was like, which is a little like your question too. Okay, what's next, Caroline?

00:54:46
Speaker 5: Okay, I keep hearing about non traditional media that VP Harris should do. Do you have any ideas for shows you'd like to see her on. I'd love to see her on a cooking show. I will note she was just on RuPaul's Jagrace.

00:54:58
Speaker 2: Oh right to me.

00:55:00
Speaker 1: I think she's doing it like I can't think of something that I haven't seen.

00:55:06
Speaker 5: You know what I would like to see hysteria podcast.

00:55:08
Speaker 1: I'd like to know. I would like to see Katie interview her. I think that like a real hour long sit down. Actually the more traditional because they're killing it on social media, you know what I mean, Like the Lance Bass Bye Bye bye, all those things. I mean, if I've seen them, I can't imagine what everybody else is seeing because I'm not even that online. But I actually think i'd like to see her do a full hour sit down with Katie and introduce herself to people who do not.

00:55:39
Speaker 2: Know her that well. I interviewed her in January and we're reaching out obviously to her folks. I'd kind of like to do a day in the life of her campaign and really be a fly on the wall and obviously get a chance to talk to her to just but to really see who she is. I think almost I think I think a sit down interview wouldn't necessarily reflect or convey her true essence in a way.

00:56:12
Speaker 1: No, I think your day in the life is a better idea.

00:56:14
Speaker 2: You know, And I think she gets a little tripped up, and I think it becomes sort of formal, and I would love for like to be there when she's meeting with her staff, to be there, you know, when she's going to a campaign rally, to talk to her, like to be there when she's talking to President Biden. Maybe something happened in Israel. I don't know, you know, I would love to be a fly on the wall. I don't think she would ever let me. I think it would be awesome.

00:56:43
Speaker 1: I agree. I think that's the best I think that would be the best format.

00:56:47
Speaker 5: So those both sound like pretty traditional media.

00:56:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, because we're basic old bitches, Caroline, I.

00:56:53
Speaker 2: Guess it does. But I mean she you know, listen, she did an interview with me and we put it in our newsletter and on social media and on YouTube. So that's kind of non traditional and you know, I think I'm a little burned by President Biden doing like Conan O'Brien and Howard Stern. And I think those are great as long as you don't do it, as long as you don't avoid serious interviews. Not that they weren't serious, but they really weren't very policy oriented and they were more kind of like origin story stuff. And I think that she needs to do some fun things, but she, I really really hope won't shy away from doing big interviews with the New York Times, with the Wall Street Journal, you know, with very with network news anchors, with former network news anchors, because I think, you know, honestly, not everyone can do an interview, and not everyone understands public policy. And I'm not saying I'm like this public policy wonk, but you know, we need people who know how to ask importance questions and follow up.

00:58:03
Speaker 1: I agree with that.

00:58:04
Speaker 5: Oh, here's an interesting question. Given the GOP's clear goal to make America Gilead again, if we hold the White House, could it be possible slash beneficial to create a Secretary or Director of Reproductive Rights and Maternal Affairs.

00:58:22
Speaker 2: Sure, that's a really interesting idea.

00:58:25
Speaker 1: Absolutely it could be a White House position, it could be at HHS. There are like a lot of places that that position could live. And I do think specifically about maternal mortality. It is something that needs to be addressed. America is like a third world nation.

00:58:41
Speaker 2: Yes, a terrible, terrible er department also paid family leave. You know, my friend Reshmasu Johnny has done incredible work in that area. There are other people who are working on it and organizations. I think she was just elated that a question was asked about that in the CM debate, not that they really answered it, but you know, I think that this will usher in a new era of people caring more deeply about women and women's issues and family issues which are really not women's issues. So I think that's a really good idea. I'd like to nominate the person who came up with it.

00:59:18
Speaker 1: Yes, send us your resume. We'll send it in.

00:59:22
Speaker 5: Okay, Katie, we got this question so many times that I'm just going to ask it to you. Uh yeah, how did you keep a straight face during your famous Sarah Palin interview?

00:59:33
Speaker 2: You know, I very consciously went into that interview knowing that that people who supported her and she was an incredible candidate, incredibly charismatic. Initially, I mean, she just blew the lid off the RNC with that speech, and my friend Nicole Wallace was helping her, and you know, signs were blocking the teleprompter. She ad libbed that li stick on you know, what's the difference between a soccer mom and hockey mom and a pitbull lipstick? So I just knew that she was pretty light. I didn't know she was light on public policy, but I knew that that hadn't really been properly mined. I guess Charlie Gibson had done something, but there was plenty of wood to chop. And I knew that people would blame me for being too confrontational or aggressive or whatever. I went in there saying, I am not going to look at her a skance, I'm not going to smirk, I'm not going to look condescending that. I am just going to have no expression at all, because I knew people would blame me if she didn't have the right answer or stumbled or whatever. So you know, and also as a person, I also felt bad for her, you know, because I saw it was pretty evident, and also her speaking cadence I think made it almost exacerbated the situation. But it was pretty evident that she wasn't quite ready for prime time and that she was struggling. And if you're in a situation like that, you feel bad, you know, unless you have ice water running through your veins. So I would never have laughed or embarrassed her further she was honestly, it was kind of she was doing it herself by kind of kind of throwing in everything but the kitchen sink when she answered some questions. So for those reasons, I would I just didn't want to react to anything she said.

01:01:54
Speaker 5: It's a great answer. Actually, Okay, two more questions. The first is I never thought about it before, but I guess the Summer Olympics are always the same year as a presidential election. How does that affect a campaign having the Summer Olympics always during the same year.

01:02:11
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you my my reflection on this was in two thousand and eight. It was Beijing, Katie right, right, two thousand and eight. And the Crooked family will know the name Ben Rhodes, of course, and Ben Rhodes and I used to check in every morning about what had happened on the Olympics. It was actually the most like August is a grind, like you still have July and August, like there's still so much time left on the campaign. I mean not really in Kamala's case, but for us, and everything was just we were so tired and the Olympics brought us such joy like we would like I would pretend to do like a dismount or like stick the landing in front of Ben's desk, and it was just it was the it really I loved it. I think we should always have this because there is something about America excellence right Like we're watching the Olympics now and I'm just like, fuck, this is great, Like it just I don't know, I find it. It is nothing but upside.

01:03:09
Speaker 2: I feel like I've also been struck by the diversity at the Olympics, when dei has suddenly become a dirty word. You look at those, you look at the US gymnastics team, and they look like America, you know. And I saw a post that was done by the NAACP of a little five year old on a balance being at her home. I think she was doing things and how inspired she was. She was black, little black girl and I was like, you know, representation matters so so so much, and I feel like we've seen a sea change and representation in the best possible way, and I think it's so thrilling and so I don't know, to me, the Olympics are emblematic of this is this is this is our country and isn't it fucking great?

01:04:05
Speaker 5: Yes?

01:04:06
Speaker 2: This year, that's what I think. I think we're reminded like like we're all from different backgrounds in different countries and you know, you know, and came from different places, and some of us are immigrants and some of us are from mixed race families, and isn't it great? Isn't it a beautiful thing? And in terms of messing with the election, that was just sort of my personal observation this year. It's just a lot of work because you know, I'm thinking about people like Savannah Guthrie, who you know, she's in Paris and then she'll be in Chicago and so they'll be like like, I've got to switch gears pretty quickly. It's just a very intense, intense period and you know, shout out to everybody who's working their butts off covering both these events.

01:04:56
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is a fun final question, Can we ourselves dream for a moment and discuss what it would be like to have a woman as president?

01:05:06
Speaker 2: Yes, we can. Can.

01:05:09
Speaker 1: It's I don't even know if we can. It's so funny because after twenty sixteen, you're like, I don't know, can't get ahead of myself, can't get too excited. But you know, it's it's not dissimilar. Oh my god, what if I cry? It's not dissimilar to what Katie was just saying about the Olympics. It's like and the little girl on the balance beam, it's like, if you can see it, you can dream it. And when we were in the White House, the number there is a there is a very famous picture Katie, I know you'll know it of a little boy touching and Obama's hair. And the point of that picture, which stayed up in the West Wing all eight ears, was that the little boy couldn't believe the president had the same hair he did. And to me, that's like what we're waiting for in a woman president to be like, you know what, there might be tampons in the White House, like they're like like all of the things that someone who's had some sort of lived experience that's adjacent yours is good enough to be the leader of the free world. And I think that so much will change in how we see ourselves when that happens, even if intellectually we tell ourselves we are equal, we are worthy all of this. I think seeing you know, if we're able to see Kamala up outside the Capitol in January, that will be a moment that we can't even imagine right now sitting here.

01:06:35
Speaker 2: That's how I feel, and I think it is, you know, for a woman of my generation born in nineteen fifty seven. As I mentioned, I'm sixty seven now. My daughters are thirty three and twenty eight. You know, we used to have t shirts I think from like Margaret from Dennis Samenaz saying I want to be the first being of president. I don't know if you remember those.

01:06:57
Speaker 1: I do remember, yeah, And.

01:07:01
Speaker 2: It is something that we have fantasized about, truly, and I think, yes, I think we have to be able to imagine it and envision it. And I really think it's not only that Kamala Harris is a woman. I think that she's a mixed race woman. I think that she's a younger woman and you know, represents generational change. I was talking to somebody not too long ago, and this was when I was on the Today Show with Brian Gumbel, and it was I guess in nineteen ninety two when Bill Clinton won and to see Hillary and Bill and Tipper and al all I think in their mid forties. Right back then, it was like wow. And with Fleetwood Mac singing and stop thinking about tomorrow, it did represent a new era and new hope and a sea change. I felt the same way obviously when President Obama was elected president and came out with Michelle and they're two girls. You know, there was just something so beautiful and exquisite about that moment, right it represented the possibility of America. So I think we can imagine it, and I think it's incredibly exciting, and I think there is a lot of work to do and a lot of people to be brought along and a lot of understanding. I wish, you know, I wish there could be more understanding between people who are not like minded and more honest conversations because I don't like the current climate and the hate and vitriol that seems to be coming too often from both sides. So, but anyway, I think it's I think it's really, you know, an exciting moment in my lifetime and in the lifetime of our country.

01:09:09
Speaker 1: Katie, Thank you, thank you, Katie, Thank you so much for joining us these past couple of weeks. Listeners, please check out Katie's podcast Next Question with Katie Couric and her newsletter Wake Up Call. And to those listening, thank you for sending us your questions. We've really got the best listeners in the biz. We'll be back next week with more Hysteria. Don't forget to follow.

01:09:36
Speaker 3: Us at Crooked Media on ig, Twitter, and TikTok. Subscribe to Hysteria on YouTube for access to video versions of your favorite segments and other exclusive content, and if you're as opinionated as we are, considered dropping us a nice review. Hysteria is a Crooked Media production. Caroline Rustin is our senior producer. Our executive producer is me Aaron Ryan and Alyssa Master Monico is our co producer. Fiona Pastana is our associate producer. The show is engineered and edited by Jordan Cantor. We get audio support from Kyle Seguin and Charlotte landis our video Producers are Rachel Gaieski and Megan Patzel, and thank you to Julia beach Awa Ouglate, Adia Hill and David Toles for production support every week