From Cleaning Airbnbs to a Number 1 Hit Song in 12 Hours | Carly Pearce

 The whole entire music industry didn't think I was good enough.
 Take us to that moment of that 12-hour period that changed everything.
 I had a manager that I played five songs for.
 He said, to my face, these songs will never get it across the finish line for you.
 And the same exact song, in 12 hours, changed my entire play.
 Country music superstar, Grammy award-winning singer-songer.
 The talented colleague here!
 He asked to have a meeting with me when I was probably at my lowest.
 I'm 25 for the new Airbnb's.
 He looked at me and he said, I believe otherwise.
 Are you ready for your life to change?
 What did you change fundamentally because of him?
 I stopped chasing other people.
 Your voice is what carries music.
 You're honest, you're raw, you're real.
 Don't overshine it.
 I always say this because I think it's really important for anybody who's chasing a dream.
 How does it feel to hear yourself intro like that?
 I was sitting here.
 It makes me a little emotional just to think about people.
 People don't realize all of the things that go into success and how long it takes
 and the pressures and the internal struggles that go on long before you ever hear our songs on the radio.
 And you never forget I assume that Kentucky girls dream.
 Never.
 This was literally the thing I wanted to do from the time I could talk.
 We start every show all the same way.
 I love it.
 Who is that?
 This is his name is Daniel Lee and I met Daniel when I was about 24.
 He was a publisher in Nashville and he asked to have a meeting with me when I was probably
 out my lowest of feeling like the whole entire music industry didn't think I was good enough.
 Even I, when I read, changed her life in 12 hours.
 I remember saying the producer, are we sure that's true?
 And he told me about the whole song on the highway play and how it was a game changer.
 So let's just dive right in.
 Take us to that moment of that 12-hour period that changed everything.
 Yeah.
 Goodness.
 I had written a song with my late producer, Busby, who I found and started working with through
 Daniel.
 We had written this song and at the time people in Nashville really labels they didn't care about
 me.
 They had seen me over the last eight years.
 I'd done countless showcases.
 I'd done so many meetings.
 I'd recorded so many different songs and I just, I didn't have the thing and it felt like I wasn't
 enough.
 And so I, I had this person, Daniel, being the person who kind of helped string together
 what I call like the the unsigned artist dream team, which was at the time.
 And they came together and they were going to create an artist discovery program for me because
 no one was signing me, but they all believed in me.
 And this is pre-tick-tock.
 This is back when really series XM the only way that new artists were getting discovered without
 having a record deal was the highway.
 I feel like so many people can see themselves in that moment because what I just heard you say
 was everybody believed in me, but nobody was willing to take that risk, that chance, that signature.
 But they were all supportive.
 Of course.
 And everybody, you know, oh, you're such a great singer.
 Gosh, nobody sings like you.
 Daniel was known as a heart.
 So he decides that he wants to put this song on the highway, but it's a slow song.
 Right.
 And you know, Daniel was kind of...
 And the song was...
 Every little thing.
 Every little...
 But it's literally been repeating in my brain for the last week.
 Keep going.
 I love that.
 Daniel actually wasn't the one to put the song on the highway.
 He was kind of behind the scenes helping me figure out, okay, Busby is a part of this story now.
 He's the producer.
 Okay, now we need to figure out how do we get music in front of people?
 And he helped me with these five songs that we were going to take to this artist discovery program.
 So we play the music for them.
 And JR Schumann at the highway, he said, every little thing is a monster song.
 I'm going to put it in as the highway find next week.
 And we were all like, oh, wait a second, that's a heartbreak ballad.
 Like, I'm not sure.
 So I went to Daniel and I was crying and I was like, I'm not...
 I can't afford another misstep here.
 And he was like, you need to trust the process.
 Like let him put this song out and we'll figure it out.
 He was always that person for me.
 You thought what song was better to showcase?
 A song that everybody told me was a radio song, which was called Think Like a Man.
 I did not write it and it never has come out.
 But at the time, it felt like everybody believed that one.
 And Daniel and I knew that every little thing was a special song for me.
 But at the time, there were not very many female artists that were breaking on country radio
 and certainly not with a heartbreak ballad.
 Special for you because it's about...
 We just knew that it was me at my core growing up, that style of music,
 that kind of haunting production, the less is more mentality,
 the simplicity of the song, letting the melodic sense kind of just carry it.
 That's who I am.
 And he knew that.
 Sing me something from that song just a little bit that makes your sort of energy move the most when you sing it.
 There's one thing from that song.
 Yeah, the high, the hurt, the shine, the sting, every little thing.
 When you sing that, you feel something.
 I do.
 And I think it's very signature to me, which he really helped...
 He encouraged me to go there and to write songs like that.
 And he was a tough... He was a tough publisher, for sure.
 I remember I read a quote.
 He said,
 you have a God-given voice that the industry has not framed correctly.
 So he thought that work could be, despite everybody had seen you,
 already knew you, had heard the voice, he thought they could reframe it.
 We sat down at a coffee shop, probably two years before every little thing happened.
 And I was lower than low.
 I was very skeptical of him because I had gotten to that place with so many different people where they were like,
 oh, let's talk deal points and then they just stopped answering emails.
 Or gosh, you're so amazing.
 Ah, it's just not it.
 So we sat down and he looked at me and he said,
 I know your story.
 I know how long you've been here.
 I know what the industry thinks.
 I believe otherwise.
 I believe you are special.
 And I'm going to help you figure it out.
 Did you believe him?
 No.
 I didn't.
 I didn't believe him until at the time I was singing back up for Lucy Hale when she was doing a country music thing.
 And I was still just very much like,
 okay, well, I'm doing this right now and it's paying my bills.
 So you let me know if you're serious.
 Well, literally like the next week I ended up Lucy canceled her tour and I called him and I said,
 well, were you serious?
 And he immediately had a deal in front of me and it was off to the races.
 And he said, I want you to meet this guy named Busby.
 I want you to try writing a song with him.
 I believe you guys can do something special.
 And very short after that, we wrote every little thing.
 I remember reading the Daniel said people know you here,
 but they don't know what you're capable of about Busby.
 If we can just for a moment, I'd never heard his name.
 But I looked him up and my God, the tributes that have poured in since he passed away from brain cancer.
 I mean, that man seemed like he almost made magic.
 He did.
 He was brilliant.
 Wow.
 Yeah.
 And we were very close.
 The three of us.
 We kind of had a really special bond.
 We even with Busby and we'll come right back to Daniel.
 But even with Busby, why do you think you clicked?
 I think Busby, you know, he didn't come from a country background at all.
 He was from, you know, the San Francisco area, loving jazz and R&B
 and had a lot of success in the pop world.
 But I think why we got along so well and why we bonded is musically we're such purists.
 And so he could understand me because at my core, the art is what moves me.
 And I think the art is what moved him.
 What was his name?
 Nickname was Busby.
 Yeah.
 Michael Busby.
 Yeah.
 I just want people to know that.
 Michael Busby.
 So Daniel.
 Yeah.
 So he follows through.
 He gets you that deal.
 He does.
 So I imagine you're like, okay, then maybe this guy is the real deal.
 Yeah.
 And he starts this process of, you know, when you're in Nashville and you're working with a publisher,
 he signs me to this deal with Busby.
 They start cultivating rooms and creating rooms with other songwriters that they feel like
 are going to best bring out what I do best.
 So I started writing some with Busby, some not.
 Daniel, again, being a hard ass.
 He was very quick to tell me, okay, this part of this song is great, but you can do better
 here or this melody is good.
 I mean, he very much was like a, just a really good critic to help me become a better
 songwriter.
 Give me an example.
 To this day, I'll send him songs and he'll be like, yes, but it didn't get all the way
 there.
 Like I know what you were going for, but no.
 Or I don't think this song has any significance to the story that we're telling or the messaging
 or it doesn't belong in the 12 or it's not telling something that people haven't already heard
 of you or in the beginning, it was kind of like he knew I was trying to find my sense.
 So he was really good at telling me, you know, your voice is what carries music.
 You're honest, you're raw, you're real.
 Don't over shine it.
 What did you change fundamentally because of him?
 I think I stopped chasing other people.
 Oh, now we're getting something good.
 You were chasing other people, how?
 The town made me believe what I was doing wasn't enough.
 So being somebody who grew up on traditional country music, this is at a time where we
 called it bro country, but it was very pop driven country music.
 This is obviously we've had a resurgence here in the last few years of traditional country
 music.
 You've even seen it with the Grammys having a traditional country album category.
 But at the time, that was not cool.
 And he could sniff out when I was trying to chase it.
 And he was like, no, that's not who you are.
 You are a patty loveless, Allison Krouse.
 You know, 90s country purist, stop trying to fight it.
 And he just encouraged me to cut songs like that.
 He would play me other songs that he felt like were kind of in my wheelhouse.
 You should try to write something like this or you should cut a song like this or melodically
 this is he just really propped me up to get my confidence back.
 All right.
 You're hitting on a really big point that I want the audience to find the takeaway.
 We can't relate to the success you've had in music, but we can relate to that moment.
 And here's my analogy for it.
 Most of us spend our life looking over our shoulder at who's nipping at our heels.
 What he challenged you to do was just look in the mirror, stop looking where the competition
 is and just look in the mirror and create something different.
 Yes.
 Yes.
 When you did that, I would assume that's when you started to see some of the same people
 who had always believed in you or they said they did suddenly want to put their money
 where the mouth was.
 I always say this because I think it's really important for anybody who's chasing a dream.
 I had a manager in town that I played five songs for, same five songs.
 One of those was every little thing, played it for him.
 And he literally said to me, what out of these songs do you think is special?
 And I said, well, I think every little thing special.
 He said to my face in front of a room of people, this song, these songs will never get it
 across the finish line for you.
 And I remember calling Daniel crying so hard because it hurt so bad and that same manager,
 I see all the time now.
 And we know he knows what he said and the same exact song in 12 hours changed my entire
 life.
 Did he say why he didn't think it was ever going to work?
 No.
 And what I've learned is people don't know what's going to work.
 That's the thing.
 If all of us knew what was going to work, there would probably be a lot more success stories.
 People found that song, I think, to be too complicated for their brain to understand.
 Well, that's definitely not going to work because we have no proof of that.
 Well, here's the interesting thing.
 So I'm a massive fan of country music.
 I love it.
 I grew up in Louisiana, 90s country is my favorite.
 Patty Lovelace literally would, like, she stopped traffic for me.
 Oh my gosh.
 That voice.
 Yeah.
 One day, Carly, I'm going to meet her.
 One day.
 She's amazing.
 One day we're going to make it happen.
 And that kind of originality was, in fact, missing.
 And so the reality, I'm trying to help the audience find how it applies in their life.
 The reality is every little thing in a pool of otherwise poppy stuff stands out like
 a diamond.
 Yeah.
 But you don't realize it in the moment.
 Do you?
 No.
 You're like, oh, no.
 Right.
 What is this?
 Right.
 And so the song, it comes out on the highway and where were you when it was played?
 I was there.
 I was at the highway.
 Oh.
 And I remember Daniel was listening, Busby was listening, and J.R. Schumann puts it on
 the radio.
 And he said to me, and I'm not saying this for the coolness of the story.
 He said to me, are you ready for your life to change?
 And I was like, yeah, whatever.
 I'm going to dinner right now with the girlfriend I have to go.
 Song comes out and I had had songs on the highway.
 So this wasn't like that, you know, again, I had had songs that did fine, but they didn't
 move the needle.
 I go to dinner.
 I drive to dinner.
 I sit down and I have a DM on Instagram from the head of A&R for big machine records,
 which has been my label home for the last 10 years from Alice and Jones.
 And all it said was, call me in the morning.
 You found your three minutes, and I was like, well, I've never done that before.
 I woke up the next morning.
 I had at the time iTunes was where we really gauged music.
 I was sitting at number one.
 I was selling 6,000 units per week as an independent artist.
 And again, this was not the thing that was happening in 2016.
 And I had labels calling managers calling agents calling artists tweeting out my song.
 It was the most insane whiplash that I've ever experienced in my life.
 How many artists, I feel like I read this somewhere, but I forgot.
 How many artists have their debut single, debut at number one?
 I believe there's only been three or four female artists in history.
 In the last like 20 years, for their songs to their debut song to go to number one.
 And mine did.
 Did she tell you when you called her the next day what it was that made it work?
 I mean, we still work together.
 She always tells me it just absolutely killed her.
 And she's such a song driven person that I think she just got it.
 She said it felt like magic in a bottle.
 Did Busby and Daniel help you in some way with the song writing?
 That was a game.
 How so?
 How was that a game changer?
 I think they could see the vision of me.
 I think Busby at the time, you know, production for me, I didn't know what it sounded like.
 And what's funny is I think today if Busby were still alive, I don't know that we would
 work together because I think it's just, I'm in a different season of my life.
 But I think at the time his production, it felt fresh and cool and different, especially
 on every little thing, to where he was bringing kind of this.
 It was almost like a really nice flavor to a very traditional artist that I think was
 fresh.
 My voice is very country, but then you put kind of that beat that's so like strong in
 that song, just like the, that's the whole thing.
 It was just very simple, but also, I don't know, I felt like he nailed that production.
 And Daniel, he just, he beat my songs up until they were good.
 One of my takeaways is it worked when you went to people who that you might have not originally
 gone to.
 Yeah.
 This picture, I didn't think he would be the key person to change everything for me.
 I had no idea.
 But Busby also wasn't doing the type of song like every little thing.
 No.
 He was, he was having success with Marin Morris and I couldn't be more different than her
 as an artist.
 You know, she kind of had that real R&B style to her, but yeah, what Busby did with every
 little thing was, it was groundbreaking at the time.
 It really was.
 I'm in a different season of my life.
 What is the season now?
 I say this to artists all the time because they're like, I want, I want what you have and
 I want success and I want this and I want to hit song and trust the process because I
 got to start my career with the type of music that I wanted to make.
 So I didn't have to compromise, you know, making songs that weren't who I am as an artist.
 So now, more than ever, I've leaned so hard into the traditional side of my music.
 And what's fun is I'm actually working with Busby's best friend, Ben West, and he's just
 able to kind of go even more country with me.
 But I think it's an evolution of what Busby and Daniel started with me.
 Taylor Mill Kentucky home.
 Yes.
 You told your parents at the age of five, I, is this kind of, it's hard to believe, five.
 You told mom and dad, you were going to be on the Grand Old Opera.
 How'd you know that little five-year-old?
 I don't know.
 My grandparents loved traditional country and the Grand Old Opera was something that I heard
 about from them when I was little.
 My parents loved music, but they weren't necessarily country fans at the time.
 And there was just this really naive, unwavering belief when I was a very small child that I was
 going to do this.
 Come on here.
 Come on here.
 Oh my goodness.
 I know.
 I think I'm like maybe five here.
 And my mom, what I equate my parents, my mom convinced of vocal coach when I was six
 to take me on because she said in the backseat in my car seat, I would keep beat like nothing
 she'd ever seen before I could talk.
 And then I started to sing into my McDonald's microphone and she was like, I swear I'm not
 crazy.
 My daughter can sing.
 This person who told you, oh, you have a beautiful voice.
 My mom.
 Did you believe it?
 Yeah.
 You did.
 Oh, I did.
 I knew.
 I look at this girl.
 She was thinking she was faithful.
 I believed it.
 Did mom or dad sing?
 They would tell you now, but they both can sing.
 Okay.
 Yes.
 My mom taught me to sing harmony.
 You start traveling with bluegrass bands I think at the age of 11?
 Yeah.
 Not normal.
 Played an all-boys prison when I was 14.
 I loved school.
 I was a popular kid.
 I was really good at school.
 It wasn't like I was running from that, but I just, if you went to anybody who grew up
 with me, they would tell you, oh, she was, she was destined to go to Nashville.
 You were a cheerleader.
 I was.
 So engaged and involved in school.
 Very much.
 But it was ninth grade.
 You do this thing that, you know, in many ways as I listened to the song, I thought of
 your life because I had done so much research.
 Yeah.
 And where you are today is because of every little thing along the way.
 It was the bluegrass.
 It was the guitar.
 And in ninth grade, your dad and mom decide they're going to split up, not the marriage,
 but the family.
 Yes.
 Because mom goes with you to pigeon forge Tennessee.
 Yes.
 And you can work in Dollywood.
 Yes.
 I saw an audition in our local Cincinnati.
 I live outside of Cincinnati in Northern Kentucky.
 The Cincinnati Inquirer had an audition for the country show at Dollywood.
 And I saw it.
 And I took it to my parents and I said, can I audition for this?
 And they were like, what?
 I already had looked at homeschooling programs that were online that could not have anything
 to do with my parents teaching me.
 And I said, this is what I want to do.
 And my dad at first was like, absolutely not.
 And then I think as he saw my commitment to finding the homeschooling and knowing that
 that was what I wanted to do, they let me drop out of high school after my ninth grade
 year, after my freshman year of high school.
 My mom and I packed up and we moved into a one bedroom, one bathroom, grizzly bear decorated
 apartment in pigeon forge.
 And I did six shows a day, five days a week and did my schooling in between.
 Would you say you're one of these people that can manifest their dreams?
 I think so.
 There was no other option.
 I've never known a day that this wasn't what was destined for me.
 I believe it is my destiny and was my destiny.
 So you're performing, you're 14, right?
 You work at Gollywood How Long?
 I worked at Gollywood for a couple of years and then I moved over to another theater in
 pigeon forge.
 So I was there.
 Did you ever meet her in the two years you worked there?
 Yeah, I did.
 I was terrified.
 But I've since met her several times and she's been a very big key part in my story.
 But yeah, she calls me her little Gollywood girl.
 There's an incredible video where tell everybody what happens where you get, I believe, how
 does it go?
 You get called back because they want to interview like past employees to sort of celebrate
 it, right?
 Yeah, I thought I was doing it a commercial for Gollywood, which honestly was very cool
 to me because I love Gollywood and to now sit on this side of it is really fun.
 But as an artist, when you are asked to be a member of the Granal Opera, it is a surprise
 and another member has to invite you.
 So I thought I was doing a Gollywood commercial and I heard high heels coming down the hall
 and I knew it was her.
 I knew it.
 And I thought, oh, they're surprising me and she's doing the commercial with me for Gollywood.
 This is awesome.
 Well, then the only way I know how to equate it is when a girl's dying for a guy to propose
 and she's like, just get down on one knee, just do it, just do it.
 I kept hearing her saying, opera, opera, oh, you've played the opera over 80 times.
 Oh, I feel like you should be a member.
 And I was like, say it, say it.
 Because in that moment, I was like, no, she's not.
 She's not.
 She was coming.
 I was like, oh, my is it?
 Is it?
 Is she?
 And she asked me and it was the most full circle.
 Think about five-year-old.
 Totally, totally, totally, totally.
 And then Dolly, are you impossible to surprise?
 That got me good, but I do not, I don't like the surprise.
 You're not easy.
 No, no, no, no, no, I usually sniff it out.
 You're not easy.
 To be inducted into the grand old opera girl, come on.
 Yeah.
 That is huge.
 And then I watched the Grammy's video when you and Ashley McBride won the Grammy
 and there is a genuineness to you up on it.
 You're like bouncing on the stage because it was clear that you wanted it.
 But I also had this thought as I watched it.
 She's sincere, but that's a woman who thought she deserved to be there.
 You know it's crazy, the Grammys, I never even thought I could get there.
 It just felt like this wild thing that wasn't in my stratosphere.
 And when we won, it was an out-of-body experience.
 I mean, in that year, I believe I won female vocalist of the year at the ACM's and the CMA's.
 I won or I was inducted into the opera.
 And then here comes a Grammy for a song that I wrote.
 And it was my idea to write it with Ashley.
 Tell everybody what the song is.
 Never wanted to be that girl.
 And that's a really proud moment.
 I think I was just so proud when I was standing up there because I wrote the song.
 I sang the song.
 That's the highest honor you could ever have.
 What's the song about?
 It is a story of two women
 where one woman is married to somebody
 and another woman thinks that he's single and she realizes.
 They both realize in the same moment that they're being played by the same man.
 And I think the reason we wanted to write this song in this way
 is I think that it's so easy to blame the other woman in that case or blame the other man
 when sometimes they don't even realize that they're being liked to.
 So two people can, their truths can be the same.
 And maybe they're not at fault.
 Maybe the person that's cheating and lying is actually the one at fault.
 So it's these two women kind of coming together and feeling like they both were duped.
 You were married then divorced about eight months later.
 You call it a mistake that you knew on your wedding night.
 How so?
 You know, when you just know something's not how it should be,
 I think everybody in my life knew I had made a...
 He made it very clear that I made a very big mistake.
 Why'd you go down that altar?
 Why'd you go down that aisle?
 There's a bit of...
 ...jackal and hide.
 To your personality or his?
 His.
 But I did not see until it was too late.
 And that's something, you know.
 I'm grateful for my very short marriage
 because it taught me a lot about myself.
 It also gave me the album 29, which...
 What did it teach you about you?
 I think it taught me just how strong I am to kind of...
 I knew very quickly this was not what I deserved.
 And I blew up my life to get out of it.
 I didn't stay because society tells you you should.
 I didn't stay because my faith says divorce is bad.
 I didn't stay because it's public.
 I need to do that.
 I was done.
 And I think the one thing that has always carried with me is
 why...
 Why did he marry me?
 I don't know.
 I'll never know.
 But that's the one thing that I've always wondered.
 Is just why do it if it wasn't for real?
 Are you a light switch kind of person where when you decide this is the way
 like you just like, oh, cut it right then.
 Yes.
 Okay.
 Yes.
 And it was very apparent for me that this was just not what I wanted for my life.
 You chose to write about in the album 29, right?
 Did you want to?
 I mean, I heard Scott Portchetta, the head of the label,
 was like, hey, write about this divorce.
 Were you inclined to do that or reluctant?
 What's funny about Scott is he knew me so well.
 And he said, I know that you are the type of artist that has to write about it to process it.
 Because I've said, often, I'm not a very good communicator in real life.
 My boyfriend would tell you that.
 My family would tell you that.
 It takes me a while.
 And I think it's because I'm a writer.
 So I need to write it out and I need to process it.
 So I think Scott knew she's go right about this,
 whether we put it out or not.
 So I went and I wrote six really intense songs about this and turn them in and thought,
 well, these are never going to be able to go out into the world and Scott called me.
 And he was like, we have to put these out and we have to put them out now.
 I thought it was just my story, but I think what I've learned is it was a lot of different people's story.
 I heard you feel as though you're not good at being vulnerable,
 but you are good at being vulnerable through your music and songwriting.
 What is hard about vulnerability outside of music?
 I think I have a hard time, you know, I always joke and say,
 there's Carly Pierce and then there's Carly.
 And I think I'm really, I know Carly Pierce really well.
 And she's such an advocate for other people to know their worth.
 But I think at times, Carly forgets the message that she gives out to others.
 And I think it's, it comes with just, I had so much success around a really
 horrible event in my life where it took me a minute to be able to even process
 what happened to me because all these other accolades were happening.
 Oh gosh, this thing that I wrote about this very personal moment literally like assigned a rocket
 to my career. And that's, you know, success is hard in that way because you kind of have to
 just roll with it. So every little thing is on 29. Every little thing is not on 29.
 Every little thing was my debut song on my first record.
 Oh, because you said the rocket ship. I wasn't following where the rocket ship was around some.
 So all of this happened as the divorce was happening.
 That was kind of the next jet fuel moment of my career. Every little thing was the first I see.
 Isn't it interesting how some of our most successful climactic moments in life come around in
 men's pain? Think about every little thing. I, I was so terrified to put that song on the highway
 because I knew it wouldn't work. My divorce, I thought my life was ending and I was writing about
 it to survive. Sometimes pains use for purpose. Do you ever feel like you have to go look for the
 pain or feel some pain in order to write good music again? I mean, that's an honest question.
 Yeah, it's funny.
 Carly Pierce's music be great if life was all hunky-dory.
 No. Okay. But what I will say, I've gotten better at being maybe five feet removed from the
 pain. Meaning, there's a song that I just put out in November called Dream Come True.
 That's pain. I think I'm able to write songs like that that are right here. But then there are
 other songs where I can pull from different moments in my life where maybe I don't feel that
 anymore, but it's still there. To me, the great country songs, there's a lot of pain in there.
 And I always gravitated as a kid to really intense music. So I think it's in my blood to be able
 to unlock that emotion. But I don't think that Carly Pierce is Carly Pierce without pain.
 Have you had blockbuster hits that you didn't write?
 I didn't write. No. I just wonder if in order to achieve that Carly Pierce success, you've got to
 be all in it. You've got to put the pen on the paper. It's really funny. I've tried to put out
 songs in the past that have been reactive in big songs for me. I'm thinking of a few hide the
 wine being one that I actually didn't write. But next girl, I wrote, truck on fire, I wrote.
 And it almost feels like fans are like, no, we want when you go deep, that's what we want.
 And it's funny, you know, Daniel honestly always tells me don't run from what brought you to the
 table. Does going deep burn you out? No. Does it energize you? Kind of refresh you? Yes. That's
 interesting. I find being able to be honest, really satisfying and being not polished, very fulfilling.
 Don't you find small talk to be a waste of time? I do. And I find being perfect. I always call it like
 the highlight reel. I find that exhausting because it's not real. It's just not real. And I think
 I think anybody who is close to me would tell you, I don't realize that I'm a successful person.
 I don't realize that I'm in the public eye. I live the most normal life. I still go to workout
 classes. I go to my my I'm very normal. I don't want to ever lose normalcy. I don't ever want to lose
 just humility and simple life. How do you keep that? I love like going to workout classes.
 I'm sure I know people know who I am, but I go. I do group fitness. I I'm very big into like my
 routines at home. I love the grocery store. I love my friends. I live I have the same friends
 that I've had forever. I care about my simple life. I live a very big life. But when I'm at home,
 it's it's very normal. When Daniel encountered you, you weren't looking for him, right? Were you
 kind of in a low period? I literally had somebody tell me to move home. Well, I ask only because I
 think you've I saw a quote from you that basically your biggest biggest successives have come when
 you weren't looking. Yes, always. Yeah. I that's hard, but but but hold on. Square that for me.
 You're a driven woman. How do you deal with the fact that you probably always want a hustle?
 But you realize that it's the in between. It's not the hustle is where you found your most success.
 Oh, it's infuriating. Yeah. How do you how do you do that?
 It's so hard to get out of your own way. I know. I know. I will
 ruminate and freak out and be up all night and worry about oh my gosh, I need to I need to have
 a song that's reactive. I need to have a viral TikTok. I need to have this. I need to sell this
 many tickets and it doesn't happen. It just doesn't happen because I'm stunting
 what makes me great as an artist. I feel that. I I spent about 15 years in broadcasting
 trying all kinds of tricks and jumps to do stuff and then I went to cover hurricane. Yeah.
 As the person who was filling in for the person who was supposed to actually be there
 and thought I was going to be there for a weekend and ended up changing my career and sending
 it through the stratosphere and changing my life and I think there's really something to be said
 for when you're looking it's hard to find it. Oh, it's when you're not looking. And again,
 so much easier said than done. I know. But I try really hard. I'm my best when I'm able to
 I always do this. When I'm able to not not that I'm not aware of what's going on around me because
 you have to be. But when I am just so focused on what makes me excited about music,
 what makes me excited about writing, what makes me excited about my my life.
 When I can just focus on me, it's my best work. And when I write from a place of
 inspiration, not obligation, completely different. I really got stuck when I read that you were
 cleaning Airbnb's, right? I mean, it it it got into the point where you needed to make money.
 What was there a point at which you were cleaning an Airbnb and you heard a song that was significant?
 What's that story? Well, I want you to think first of all, I want you to think about this. I'm
 an only child. And I convinced my dad to let me chase the stream. I move into a condo that they
 had my parents had to help me buy. And I'm 25 cleaning Airbnb's while my friends are getting
 their first jobs out of college. And I'm like, oh, this isn't good. And nobody's saying it because
 my parents had unwavering belief in me. But I knew my dad was thinking it. What's what's what's
 going to happen? How much longer? Yes. And I was feeling being a driven person like, oh,
 God, is it, is it not going to happen? And I was cleaning an Airbnb and I had my radio going,
 my Pandora station of country, whatever hits. And this song, because I had had a developmental
 record deal early in my in my journey in Nashville. And I had had some music that I was going to record.
 But I never got the opportunity to because my A and R person got let go from the label. So I was
 let go. And didn't you find out via Facebook message that it was all did? I got a Facebook message
 from this person telling me that they were no longer at the company. Okay. Be hot. And I was cleaning
 an Airbnb. And this song that I had had on hold for myself was being sung by another female
 artist. She had cut the song. And it was this very weird moment where I'm cleaning toilets quite
 literally. And I'm hearing this song. It was actually going to be my song, but I didn't get to. And I
 was like, how is this my life? And I think about that picture of the caveman that always goes mining.
 I had it on my fridge for years. And he's digging, digging, digging, and he walks away. And he's this
 far from the diamond. And that's why I always encourage people. You never know how close you are
 to the diamond. Oh, friend, you just gave us what they call the kids call a social media cut
 right there. That's some truth. Speaking of truth, you've been very open about recurrent
 paracarditis. You've had it since you were 2020. It is inflammation of the heart sack that doctors
 kept dismissing. Yes. I so take you to 2020. I'm going through a very public divorce.
 It's also the pandemic. I'm not working. Not on the road. I started feeling this very intense
 shortness of breath and chest pain that I've never experienced. I'm an avid runner. I would go
 out on these runs. And I'd be like, Oh, my God, this is not good. Went to a couple different
 doctors and they told me it was anxiety. It was stress. It was because of my job. It was because
 of my personal situations going on. And I was dismissed for quite a bit of time. Finally got a
 diagnosis. I had fainted and had to go to the ER. And they say, you have paracarditis. I have no
 idea what that is. And it's something that I've been dealing with for the last few years. That is
 why it's called recurrent for me. But it's the inflammation around the sack of that hold your
 heart. And in 2023, it took me down pretty good. And I was on the road and had a really bad flair
 and had to go public with it because it's another way to use your vulnerability to open up about
 something and just say, Look, all of you think I eat healthy. I work out every day. I'm
 taking care of myself, but this still happened to me. And you have to advocate for yourself. If you
 get a no, go somewhere else. Is it hereditary? No. And a lot of people, you know, they get it after
 a virus or after a surgery or they don't really know why I have it. Your parents, I want to go back
 to them for a moment. Your dad took a second job when you and your mom were in Tennessee just to
 kind of help ease things, right? Is that right? No. Oh, he took care of my grandfather. Oh,
 I thought I read that he had a second job. No, he was, no, my dad, he just, he kind of took care of
 our home and my grandfather. He was holding it down in Northern Kentucky. And my mom
 just would sit and you think about that. And she would just sit at the little apartment
 by herself while I was doing shows. And you don't think about the sacrifices that your family makes
 for you. Have you been able to repay them in some way and finance, you know? Yeah. Girl,
 with a big, how's that felt to be able to do for them in that way? It's really special. I,
 I think my parents all they ever wanted was for this to happen for me. And I definitely have
 gotten to give them some moments. And really, my parents, all they ever wanted was for me to be
 happy and to see this happen. And I think for them, the repayment, although sometimes, you know,
 I give them things, especially my mom. She's like, I earned it. What do I get? She's like, well,
 you could buy me that. But I think the biggest payoff is when they come to a show and they see
 all these people singing back the words to my songs or my dad's still to this day. I just had a song
 come out with Riley Green this past week. And he sent me that I was the top gainer in country
 music on country radio. And he was like, nice. You know, it's, I think we all knew this was what I was
 meant to do. But I think getting to see it, their, all their little belief came true. Do you still feel
 like you're trying to prove to people that you were meant to do this? So a Grammy,
 country music awards, you still feel like you're proving something. I think that's the hardest part
 of success, right? Is it or is it the healthiest part? I think so. Because if you didn't feel like
 you had something to prove, don't you feel like it might just come to, isn't that when it gets
 dangerous and the success stops? I think so. Yeah. Look at people like Dolly. Yeah. She would
 probably tell you. I mean, I think she would. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I want to, I want to continue to
 elevate myself. And the bar, the bar was high at every little thing. The bar was high at 29.
 The bar is now higher. I like the challenge. What's there left to prove now?
 Maybe it's less something to prove. And it's more continuing to raise the bar for myself and
 make sure that what is important to me, which is I want to be remembered as somebody who had a true
 impact on country music. I want to do this for my life. I don't want this to be something that I do
 for a few years and then get out of it. I want to leave a legacy and be one of the females that
 really did it. Daniel, what's the relationship like today and how involved is he? Do you know what's
 so funny? He literally texted me when I got here. Did he? Did he know that we were about to do
 this? Oh, no, I've not told him. Wow. It's the universe. The relationship now, I've been working on
 a new album and he, I got to bring him on. He's now in A&R where he belongs, but I got to bring him
 on to work with me on this new album that I've been working on. And he loves to just go deep with
 me. So in the beginning, about a year ago, when we were working on what is this new era for me,
 he stayed on the phone with me for hours and was like, I think, conceptually, we need to go back
 to your origin story. People don't understand where you came from and we need to really build that
 out and we need to pick songs and pick writers and pick a producer that's really going to bring
 that to life. So he was on the grounds of that. He, at every step, sends me emails, championing me
 when he sees me, an ad for a new song or sees that I'm, you know, he, oh, I saw your Shazam
 numbers are up or your streams are up. I'm so heavily involved. He helps me with my confidence a
 lot. I'll go, I'll say to him still, I still feel like the same girl at 26 who needed that little
 pick me up where I'll go, gosh, do you think it's over for me? Has my, have my best days
 happened? And he's like, please stop. Stop. So he's a voice of reason. He's a friend. We've had
 a lot of success together. He now is working with young artists. He has a young artist that he's
 working with now who's very much like me. She reminds me of me and I'm now taking her out on
 tour with me. Are you? Yeah. How cool is that? What's her name? Her name's Sele Campbell and she's
 amazing, but she's just, she reminds me so much of me and Daniel and I, it's, it's fun to get to
 see him helping another girl. You talk about Daniel helping you. He paid for photo shoots when
 nothing was happening. Literally nothing was right. So engineered the Sirius XM campaign.
 Red chairs in his office. She cries in them at every stage. Sat in the rhyme and pews at her
 sold out show and cried the whole night, but refuses to take any credit. He will die that, that I
 thought to do this about him. But I think what he needs to know is you always hear those, it takes
 one person to believe. And for me, when I think about my journey in Nashville, he was and continues
 to be the one that always believes. And I really don't know if I wouldn't have had that meeting
 at Edgehoe Cafe all those years ago. Where would I be? I don't know because he was it? When
 someone like that does something like he did that changes so much for the course of your life,
 I would imagine you feel this almost immense sense of unending gratitude that you just constantly
 want to pay them back. Yeah. Oh, I'm constantly sending a message is just being like, you know, you
 what would I do without you? And I don't think there's what's so wonderful about him is
 he wants no credit. He genuinely wanted to see my talent be heard. I don't even know that he cared,
 sure, he wanted the success for me. But I think he just wanted me to really believe that my voice was
 enough. Who have you not collaborated with that you want to? Who's like a dream collab? A dream.
 Yeah, a dream. I've had some pretty good ones. Chris Stapleton was my dream. And then I got to do
 that. I would love to do something with Dolly. I think that would be really special. We've gotten
 to sing together. I think that would be awesome. Outside of country, I've always wanted to say
 John Mayer is like my favorite. I love him as an artist. But yeah, I mean Stapleton was my
 and I'll be all for a long time. Alison Krauss. I love her. Oh, yeah. Who do you compare yourself to
 in country music today? I think I have a lot of Loretta Lins. I don't care what you think about me.
 I'll say it. I don't care. Like that mindset, not actually in this moment, but like that idea of
 like, yeah, I got married and divorced in eight months and I'm gonna tell you about it. Or yeah,
 believe this or yeah, I'm gonna do this. I think there's some of that in me. I think my voice,
 patty loveless, being from Kentucky. There's that mountain appellation thing that you just can't
 get rid of. We always joke. Tucky knows Tucky. And I think I have, you know, some Alison Krauss in me,
 just of that sound, that haunting voice. Have you achieved the fame you believe you deserve?
 And I don't mean fame in the superficial sense. I mean fame in the bonafide backed up, written,
 memorialized way. Do you feel like Carly Pierce has gotten all she deserves?
 No, I don't. But it makes me want to work harder for it and not complain about it.
 So what does she deserve? I think I'm a country music purist who's always been that. And I think I just
 deserve, I think I've had a lot of this in my career, which a lot of that is probably choices
 that I've made or songs that I thought would work or, you know, different things in life that have
 happened. I think I deserve a little bit more of this. How do we get there? I'm working on it.
 I think at the end of the day, I'm in a season of having to remember, what do you do best? And I
 think I'm really at a place where what I do best is singing real country music and real stories
 and being unapologetically per. I've listened to a lot of great voices,
 but when they talk, the voice isn't as like great per se. You have such a phenomenal
 just voice. Just talking, I'm like, listen lady, just talk to me. Come on, I'm not the first person
 who said that. Yeah. I feel like I have a, there's the richness of my singing voice, I think,
 and my speaking voice. Yeah, but not everybody, you understand how not everybody has that. Yeah.
 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What was your last know that you got that hurt like all the other ones?
 What was the last? What was the last know? It sounds so superficial. I haven't been nominated
 at the country awards in a few years and that feels like a no, which has been hard. I,
 a couple of years ago, I won a CMT award for my duet with Chris Stapleton, which was
 such a highlight. Again, bucket list person for me to sing with. And 12 hours later,
 the ACM awards, the nominations came out and I wasn't nominated. And in that 12-hour span,
 I went from thinking the highest high to the lowest low. It's a different 12 hours. Yeah. And
 that's the roller coaster of that's what you're trying to eliminate is that high that low.
 So so many big dips and can we just like level out a little bit like I wish my ego was bigger
 because I think it would help me to at least inflate. Oh, no, I'm fine. I'm great. I feel so deeply
 and I take it so personally and it probably is all those years in Nashville that I felt like I
 wasn't a part of the club. How do you manage that? I'm in a really good place with it now.
 I think you you have a choice to make. You can either be better or you can be better.
 And I want to be better. And maybe that I may never get nominated again. But you know what?
 I have a shelf full of awards. She wanted that. I don't want to take away my success from this.
 Huff thing is maybe the only person who can make you better is you. Oh, it is. I mean, that's what
 that's what the last hours taught me. It's so true. Every time you went looking and trying to pull
 and activate somebody else, they people kept putting a mirror right back in front of you.
 Yeah. It comes it comes back to that. It does. And I think when I get away from that,
 all I'm doing is hindering the moments that could be the best for me as a person, but also for me as
 an artist. Let's make Daniel as uncomfortable as we can by you now telling him whatever you
 haven't said. Oh my gosh. Show her him with some love. What would you what would you want to say
 if you were here right now? I would tell him. You thought you were just having a meeting with
 an artist that actually was a lifeline and it truly was the reason that I didn't move home.
 I was looking at apartments to go home and you continue to remind me that I am enough
 and you continue to make me believe that I matter in music and that I matter as a girl and that
 I matter as a woman. And you're now such a wonderful friend and confident and we've built something
 really special and I'm grateful that you believed because it has helped me believe again.
 Can you put a track with that? Good Lord. Your genuineness and sincerity at this table
 for me as a massive fan of country music makes a difference and here's why. I've enjoyed your music
 but now I'm compelled to go out and buy a ticket and sit in a seat. Because there's almost a
 little bit of an investment like I want to be a part of this. I want to be a part of that story
 in helping her. Truly. Do we have a song about you matter or you're enough? I mean because it
 it sounds like there might be something there. I don't know. I have a song called What He Didn't Do
 which kind of is a very big like anthem for just worth. It matters to me but I don't know. What's
 the next music coming up? Well I just put out a duet with Riley. Right. I heard that one.
 Loved it. And what's next? I mean it's probably time for an album isn't it? I think so.
 That means somebody got to come hurt you so we can get another good one. Oh it's already done.
 No more hurting. We've had enough. We've had enough. Listen I you hope every guest will be
 this enjoyable and honest and open. I thank you. Oh thank you. Thank you very much.
 I'm Carly Pierce and the person who believed in me was Daniel Lee.
 I thought you might want to know but this podcast is at the heart of a company I found
 it called Do Good Crew. I've spent 25 years telling stories. It used to be the bad news and now
 I want to focus on the good news. The everyday heroes who are doing extraordinary things. You can
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 going to www.TheDoGoodCrew.com. Our podcast was created by me David Begnau. Our executive producer
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