Child Internet Safety: Desiree's Story About Sentencing A Child Predator

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<v Speaker 1>Hey guys, welcome back to Preview Alliance Podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>This is Sarah, and today we come to you.

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<v Speaker 1>She's become a friend of mine, desiree, and I am so excited for you guys to meet her and hear her story.

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<v Speaker 1>I will do a trigger warning of this episode.

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<v Speaker 1>We are going to be talking about some heavy subjects when it comes to protecting our kids and safety of our kids when it comes online.

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<v Speaker 1>So if you are not in that headspace today, that is perfectly fine.

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<v Speaker 1>Download us and listen when you're ready.

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<v Speaker 1>But the importance of this episode is this is a lived experience of a mom like us, who is now using her voice to empower us and share her experience.

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<v Speaker 1>So, desiree, welcome.

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<v Speaker 1>We're so glad to have you.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm really excited to be here, so thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>So welcome.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so for our listeners, can you just give them a snapshot of why you're here today and we're talking about safety online when it comes to our kids?

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, I'll try to keep this brief.

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<v Speaker 2>It's been going on, for I mean, gosh, we're going on eight plus years, I feel.

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<v Speaker 2>So long story short.

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<v Speaker 2>I was a mom blogger back in 2010, when that was just coming on the scene.

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<v Speaker 2>I was kind of lonely LA, we lived in Los Angeles and I was looking for other moms like me finding a community.

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<v Speaker 2>My blog was essentially a baby book for my kids, and my first child was born in 2012.

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<v Speaker 2>And then my daughter came on the scene in 2015.

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<v Speaker 2>And then, when she was seven months old, I received a comment on a blog post about her that was really sexually explicit and graphic and just really jarring.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's kind of really a very brief synopsis of why I'm here is just the possibility of child exploitation through the internet, instagram, all of those different platforms and how.

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<v Speaker 2>I was kind of catapulted into it Not by choice, of course, but it's just kind of brought me into where we are now.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, let's go back.

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<v Speaker 1>So you had just moved to LA, right, so you were not around your friends and family and yeah, you're the OG bloggers back then.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, like you guys are the ones now.

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<v Speaker 1>It's very common, right, we see a lot of influencer and bloggers, but you were looking for a way to like we all do in motherhood right To find our village, find connected and they're really looking back there.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I remember just thinking for this episode, there wasn't even like support for moms, right?

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<v Speaker 1>So you were just trying to find that for yourself and you connected in with some other bloggers at this time right Through your blog.

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<v Speaker 2>Correct it kind of.

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<v Speaker 2>There was a essentially a mom blogging community.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a lot of moms similar to my age who had kids similar to my kids age, and it was just kind of a cyber community of moms supporting each other, trading really innocent things like recipes and play days and birthday parties.

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it was just something to connect with other people like me when it was really hard to find that in such a big city it's crazy, but you know it was just kind of isolating.

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<v Speaker 2>So to find that community was really nice and it was so innocent and just so pure and it was a lot of fun in the beginning, yeah, and then, what was that first photo that comment was made on?

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<v Speaker 2>So I had posted a photo again.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, this is just the early days of blogging.

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<v Speaker 2>It was so ridiculous, but I was demonstrating an app to edit photos and my daughter was seven months old at the time and I showed a before picture and an after picture of the editing I had done and at that time, just like Instagram or Facebook or whatever platform you use now, you could leave comments on the posts, and a lot of the times it was the other times oh, that's the app, or you know, fill in the blank about the baby.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and there was the comment that started reading I want to say innocent, even though it wasn't but the first few lines of it read very innocently and then it was just like a gut punch with the commentary that followed.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's kind of like a hook to get you to read the comment and then wrap it up with something that was just horrific.

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<v Speaker 2>And she was seven months old.

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<v Speaker 1>She was seven months old.

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<v Speaker 1>I cannot.

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<v Speaker 1>So from that moment, something inside you said this is not just a comment, this is not a one time thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>So within the mom blogging community we had a Facebook group like mom blogger group and there had been like murmurs of other moms who had mentioned similar experiences with their blog posts.

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<v Speaker 2>And you kind of write it off when it's not you, it's not your problem.

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<v Speaker 2>When it is you, it becomes a big problem.

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<v Speaker 2>And so we started chatting and there was a pattern.

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<v Speaker 2>It was as if this commenter was comment hopping, like on Instagram or Facebook.

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<v Speaker 2>If you click on someone's name, you go to their profile or their blog post in the blogging communities and we kind of deduced that this commenter was just hopping from one mom to the next and seeking out moms with daughters.

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<v Speaker 2>None of the moms who had boys or no boys were ever mentioned in any of the comments.

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<v Speaker 2>And after reading through the moms that were experiencing this, something was just.

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<v Speaker 2>It was more than just like a silly pain you know trolling the internet it just felt like something bigger and dirtier and just very wrong.

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<v Speaker 2>And I actually had a large gap of time where I didn't have any more comments I mean, we're talking probably over a year and I mentioned it to my husband in the beginning like hey, this doesn't seem right and my husband is law enforcement and he kind of just made the comment.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it's the internet, free speech.

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<v Speaker 2>There's not a whole lot we can do.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I kind of wrote it off for that year that there was nothing else happening on my blog.

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<v Speaker 2>However, when we were I want to say she was probably 17 months old I took our son to a water park for his birthday and I posted about the water park.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, this is a birthday party and here we are and I posted what I thought was a very innocent photo of my children who they're bathing suits are so modest, like long sleeves, completely covered, you know, mom, comments were left on that post and then the second comment was by this particular predator was it was even more graphic and more sexually explicit, and at that point I knew like something had to be done, because the comment was just so elevated from the first one and I didn't think that we could even make it worse than the first one.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, sure we were.

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<v Speaker 2>So I screenshotted the IP address, I screenshotted the comments and then I deleted it because it's just that's not something you want to see about your 17 month old daughter.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh uh-oh and I went back to my husband and I said you know, we have to do something about this.

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<v Speaker 2>You really need to put me in contact with somebody who can at least look into this and make me feel better.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, along with the other moms who are experiencing this, their own particular nightmare, and I was able to get into contact with the FBI office in Los Angeles and they put me in contact with I don't know the exact title of them, but I want to say it's like internet crimes with children or something along those lines.

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<v Speaker 2>And so that particular agent did some digging.

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<v Speaker 2>We gathered a lot of comments and IP addresses from the other moms I knew and they tracked down this person to Jacksonville, florida, where after a couple of years, it feels they were able to get enough evidence.

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<v Speaker 2>I get to do a search warrant within his home.

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<v Speaker 2>They found I don't know how I want to describe it just an exorbitant number of, basically, child pornography on his computer and other things in his home that I won't discuss here, but just enough to arrest him.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, florida a little bit longer, because the judicial process takes so long.

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<v Speaker 1>And then for.

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<v Speaker 2>COVID, you know that kind of stalled things for a long time.

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<v Speaker 2>But, by 2021, two other mom bloggers and I flew down to Florida where this particular man in Jacksonville was on trial for child exploitation, I believe, possession of child pornography and intent to distribute.

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<v Speaker 2>There was another count in there too, but we gave testimonies.

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<v Speaker 2>We had to, you know, stand in or sit in the box and answer questions and just kind of relive the nightmare over again.

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<v Speaker 2>It's one thing to read comments about your children and it's another to have someone read them out loud to you about your child and just having to relive those things that you're trying to bury.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but thankfully with the other two moms who are just incredibly powerful women, who all the love and respect.

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<v Speaker 2>I couldn't have done it without them.

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<v Speaker 2>I just we were wrong out by the end of that week, but this particular individual was found guilty on all charges and eventually I was able to go back to his sentencing trial and read a victim impact statement which still to this day, when I read it like my heart just shatters for my daughter, who's just so innocent and has no idea that any of this has even happened to her, Hi.

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<v Speaker 2>Thankfully, the judge took into account all the things we had to say and he received 64 years in prison and the way the federal prison works.

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<v Speaker 2>You don't get parole, so he's just there, which is wonderful and it's a relief.

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<v Speaker 2>The other moms and I were chatting.

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<v Speaker 2>We didn't realize how relieved we were when we realized all of his appeals had been exhausted and that he was just there.

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<v Speaker 2>It'd been a year or two since his sentencing and then the appeals were exhausted and it was honestly like a thousand pound weight I didn't even know it was on my chest had been lifted.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, 100%.

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<v Speaker 1>And you had to.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, you had to come face to face with this unspeakable evil that is in this world and I think, once you've had to see it and face it and, like you said, we hear about it when we wanna try our best to protect our kids, but when it happens to us, it's a whole new fire inside of us that, as moms, we just have to.

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<v Speaker 1>Now you're not a blogging.

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<v Speaker 1>Now was this a huge reason why you stopped?

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<v Speaker 2>This was at that point blogging for me had started to kind of taper off.

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<v Speaker 2>It was just really a lot with two kids.

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<v Speaker 2>This was kind of like the proverbial nail in the coffin, like all of the joy had been sucked out of what I had been doing.

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<v Speaker 2>And my blog is still technically active, like I haven't deleted the account.

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<v Speaker 2>I do go back and revisit some of the recipes I make, so it's kind of, you know, it's still there.

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<v Speaker 2>However, I just I can't look at some of those blog posts without thinking about what has happened, and so it's just I think after the trial I tried to post one more time and it just all of that joy had been sucked right out of it.

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<v Speaker 1>We've you know, me and you personally talked about how 2020 vision, right, we would do a lot of things different in our lives.

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<v Speaker 1>So we're in this interesting, you know life right now, where Instagram is king and I feel like influencers are really sharing a lot and you're getting to know them and their families, and then we're doing the same thing personally, right, With what we're sharing on our stories and let's to the mom who's listening to this and going okay, it's been on my heart.

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<v Speaker 1>I've been thinking maybe I should be more protective of things I've put on social media.

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<v Speaker 1>What do you say to her?

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<v Speaker 1>What would be some things now that she would say I would do differently?

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<v Speaker 1>I would tell my best friend do this.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's a loaded question, right?

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<v Speaker 2>It is.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean Instagram, especially since the birth of that.

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<v Speaker 2>Sharing your life is fun and exciting and you wanna do that, and it's another place you connect with people who are like you.

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<v Speaker 2>If I could go back and tell 2012 me anything, I probably would never use my first or last name, especially of my children, in any of my posts, my blog posts or my blog actually has my name right there in the title of the blog.

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<v Speaker 2>If I could go back, I would have never, ever, put that in there.

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<v Speaker 2>I would have never put my children's first names in any of the posts.

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<v Speaker 2>I was pretty good at the time about not being very pinpoint specific on my location, but that doesn't mean that you can't look at a picture and say, oh, that's Santa Monica or oh, that's Hollywood.

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<v Speaker 2>You know like.

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<v Speaker 2>I definitely tried to keep it vague, but you just never know who's out there in your vicinity looking to stalk or prey on your most prized and precious possession.

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<v Speaker 2>And even though I'm still with Instagram, my profile has been public for so long that it's like how do you turn that back and how do you shift that gear?

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<v Speaker 2>Because once you post something, no matter if you make it public or private, it's out there.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean it's just out there.

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<v Speaker 2>So I would definitely protect my children's names to make it a little less easy to identify them or find them, or and I probably wouldn't have started a blog post at all, honestly yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Which is sad because that was the community I clung to for so many years.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, let's talk about the private, because I know you could learn a lot through the trial with the FBI agent that worked closely with your case.

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<v Speaker 1>Some people think, hey, I'm private, I'm safe.

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<v Speaker 2>And I thought that too.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, shortly after all this happened, I turned everything to private.

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<v Speaker 2>It was just a knee-jerk reaction to the scenario and the agents said and more or less terms, and excuse my language, but she basically said you know, some of these predators really just get off and trying to get into those private accounts and if they want to, badly enough, they will.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>And so when it comes to like even showing our kids faces, is there apps out there?

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<v Speaker 1>Is there anything that moms are like what can I do?

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<v Speaker 1>Can I blur face, can I?

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<v Speaker 1>You know, we all weigh that like line, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>So there is an app that I use when I do post my kids.

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<v Speaker 2>If they're in a group setting with like classmates or teammates, I make sure to blur out their teammates or classmates.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know how their parents feel about them being exposed on the internet.

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<v Speaker 2>It's simply just called the blur app.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a free app.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean you'll have to deal with a couple of like pop-up ads and stuff, but it's super easy to use.

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<v Speaker 2>You just pull up your photo, blur out which one to blur out.

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<v Speaker 2>And I also do that for every t-shirt that ever indicates like their school or like a sports team they might be on.

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<v Speaker 2>I always blur those out because you know we live in this area, but if I give you that much information, you're going to be able to narrow it down even farther.

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<v Speaker 2>So the blur app is just simply BLUR app and I also use it like if, like I'm just looking outside right now, there is a street sign in my right, across from my front yard, and I will make sure if I'm posting a picture I'll zoom in and make sure that has been completely blurred out, because you know like before I would have never even thought twice about that street sign, but now it's just something that is always in the back of my mind, Like what around me would be an identifier of where I live or my kids go to school or where they play sports or what clubs they're in.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, completely.

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<v Speaker 1>And then what about?

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<v Speaker 1>I saw this on your Instagram, which I didn't even think about this.

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<v Speaker 1>But when you go into a hotel room that's empty, I mean I was blown away.

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<v Speaker 1>But there's a I think it's traffic cam.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's the app.

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<v Speaker 1>If I'm saying correctly, that's right.

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<v Speaker 1>And you scan the room and the reason to do that is kids that are trafficked or even women that are trafficked.

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<v Speaker 1>It helps the FBI and law enforcement figure out that location of that room and be like this is ex hotel in this city and this is what this looks like.

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<v Speaker 1>I would have never thought that could be something we could be doing as moms to help fight against this.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that was something that another law enforcement officer actually pointed out to me after the case and you know I've downloaded it since and again, that's not something you think of, unless it becomes part of your sphere, and it's t?

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<v Speaker 2>R, a, f, f, I, c, k, cam.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that's the app and it's super easy.

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<v Speaker 2>You just download it, it's free, the photo portion pops up and you just scan your room and then it's downloaded to that app and law enforcement uses it to identify locations and find kids and female I mean people, just people.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, you know I, even after our discussion, I was thinking I'm like yard signs, right, that says how older kids are and their names, things we put on our cars, right, because this man hid behind, it seems like his computer and his terrorist ways and evil ways.

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<v Speaker 1>And but we also have to realize that there are people out in the out in our neighborhoods, on our streets, in our grocery stores that are looking for that same opportunity.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>So just last year my son turned 10.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and we did the whole yard sign thing and before I, like before my life, like before and after now it seems like before that I would have said happy birthday, put my son's name and then put his age, Since his yard time was just really generic.

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<v Speaker 2>It was just a really big happy birthday with the little signs of the things he was interested in.

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<v Speaker 2>I just don't want strangers to know that I have an 11 year old son living in my house and what his name is.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's just little things like that that just have really changed since all of this.

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<v Speaker 2>But I also feel it's little things everybody can do to you know, those extra little steps to take care of your kids.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know there's to a huge conversation that's going around right now about our children have no choice to be put on our socials, right, and what is too much and what are they going to look back on and say, mom, I wish you wouldn't have shared that, Right?

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<v Speaker 1>And you know even me being very open about my post-war depression experience.

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<v Speaker 1>I never want my son to think I caused this from all right.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, it's a hard line and I'm not doing it 100% right and I want to get better at it, and I think that's the common theme of small.

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<v Speaker 1>So I think we have to have this conversation right, we have to start it and we have to battle within ourselves of what that's going to look like for our family.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>I've actually recently my son the 11, I've started asking him if it's okay if I post photos of him.

00:20:28.582 --> 00:20:30.044
<v Speaker 1>My daughter is very much like, are you?

00:20:30.064 --> 00:20:30.744
<v Speaker 2>going to post that.

00:20:32.112 --> 00:20:33.394
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, like posed up for me.

00:20:34.256 --> 00:20:37.541
<v Speaker 2>But my son, you know I'll ask him and he'll say yes and no.

00:20:37.541 --> 00:20:39.105
<v Speaker 2>But I take that very seriously.

00:20:39.105 --> 00:20:41.990
<v Speaker 2>Like if he doesn't want me to post that, I absolutely will not.

00:20:41.990 --> 00:20:44.433
<v Speaker 2>Like that's something that I have to respect.

00:20:44.433 --> 00:20:47.479
<v Speaker 2>And you know I have those photos.

00:20:47.479 --> 00:20:50.805
<v Speaker 2>So if he ever wants to see them, you know we can scroll through the camera roll.

00:20:50.805 --> 00:20:59.239
<v Speaker 2>But you know, right now I'm just really trying to listen to him and how he feels about what I'm putting out there and I'll do the same.

00:20:59.239 --> 00:21:05.965
<v Speaker 2>If my daughter ever says I don't want that posted, then you know I will absolutely listen to her and follow through with her request.

00:21:07.109 --> 00:21:11.250
<v Speaker 1>Yeah it doesn't ask your kids, no, and just say, hey, is this?

00:21:11.250 --> 00:21:15.296
<v Speaker 1>Because sometimes we get into the and there's two ways of views, right?

00:21:15.296 --> 00:21:26.330
<v Speaker 1>So we have the protection where the moms that got protect them from this cruel evil in the world, and then it's like we're also protecting them from, like you said, once it's out there, it's always out there and people.

00:21:26.330 --> 00:21:28.477
<v Speaker 1>I think think it goes away, right.

00:21:29.298 --> 00:21:29.901
<v Speaker 2>But it doesn't.

00:21:29.901 --> 00:21:31.313
<v Speaker 2>No, it doesn't.

00:21:31.313 --> 00:21:41.905
<v Speaker 2>Once it's there, one screenshot and it's forever on somebody else's phone or computer or you know you might have deleted it, but that doesn't mean somebody else has.

00:21:44.515 --> 00:21:47.983
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so any more little tips that you can think of.

00:21:47.983 --> 00:21:53.436
<v Speaker 1>That's really kind of now you know about, or maybe FAI, or you know your mom, blogger friends.

00:21:53.436 --> 00:21:55.501
<v Speaker 1>You guys kind of learn the hard way.

00:21:56.150 --> 00:21:59.343
<v Speaker 2>So I actually just spoke with one of the agents that I worked with.

00:21:59.343 --> 00:22:08.335
<v Speaker 2>I spoke with her this week about any tips she could give, especially in this age of Instagram and Facebook and Twitter and you know, fill in the social media blank.

00:22:08.335 --> 00:22:17.378
<v Speaker 2>And she said just really be aware of what you're posting of your children and where the focus is.

00:22:17.378 --> 00:22:21.994
<v Speaker 2>I touched briefly on like my kids are very modestly dressed when they're in their swimsuits.

00:22:21.994 --> 00:22:49.603
<v Speaker 2>Looking back on the post the second post that the comment was left on I maybe would have turned my children toward me, but they were like facing away from me, holding hands, and it was very cute, but like if I could have changed anything, I would have turned them towards me or had them looking at each other or whatever, just so their behinds weren't on the front of the photo and I probably would have cropped it in a little bit closer.

00:22:50.851 --> 00:22:54.461
<v Speaker 2>So just don't post where you are when you're there.

00:22:54.461 --> 00:22:56.769
<v Speaker 2>Wait 20 minutes after you've left.

00:22:56.769 --> 00:22:58.093
<v Speaker 2>That's a hard and fast rule.

00:22:58.093 --> 00:23:21.061
<v Speaker 2>I've done since then, like just the other day we went to the swimming pool and I waited till we got home, because there are certain features at that swimming pool that are very identifiable and I wasn't about to put that there while we were there immediately, because you know my kids want them a diving board and one's on the water slide, and I'm one person, so you know I'm not posting that until we're very much gone and out of the facility or the vicinity.

00:23:21.830 --> 00:23:25.450
<v Speaker 2>That's one thing that I would absolutely encourage all parents to just wait.

00:23:25.450 --> 00:23:33.278
<v Speaker 2>I know it's hard sometimes because you want to post all the fun you're doing immediately the Instagram notification been there, done that, very guilty.

00:23:33.278 --> 00:23:35.484
<v Speaker 2>But you know, just wait.

00:23:35.484 --> 00:23:42.104
<v Speaker 2>You know nobody's going to know that you were at the swimming pool an hour ago versus right now.

00:23:42.826 --> 00:23:50.458
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and it just I mean we're all guilty of it because it's like, you know, you've got the lives, you've got the stories where it's so easy just to do it.

00:23:51.098 --> 00:23:55.290
<v Speaker 2>I actually got all of my stories and then I post them later.

00:23:55.290 --> 00:24:02.557
<v Speaker 2>You know I'll take the video and I'll take the photo and then stories that pops in, you know, hours or days later.

00:24:02.557 --> 00:24:04.461
<v Speaker 2>So you know we're not there anymore.

00:24:04.461 --> 00:24:08.451
<v Speaker 2>It's a little harder to pinpoint where we are.

00:24:09.295 --> 00:24:10.116
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean.

00:24:10.116 --> 00:24:10.719
<v Speaker 1>And two, it's.

00:24:10.719 --> 00:24:13.508
<v Speaker 1>I was reading about this too, I think.

00:24:13.508 --> 00:24:30.798
<v Speaker 1>If like, so if you're obviously your child being naked is never okay to put on social media, and that they were saying, like the little emojis, like you can cover body parts with emojis, that they can be removed with certain photo editors Okay, that's terrifying.

00:24:30.818 --> 00:24:32.082
<v Speaker 2>That's a new one, I didn't know.

00:24:33.029 --> 00:24:44.432
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I was reading for this and I was like, because you know, you see, moms, and they'll cover it right, they'll put the third of over it and they were saying don't to, that can even be edited and removed now.

00:24:44.972 --> 00:24:48.058
<v Speaker 2>I mean, that is surprising, learning what we've learned through this case.

00:24:48.058 --> 00:24:48.859
<v Speaker 2>It just doesn't.

00:24:51.450 --> 00:24:55.611
<v Speaker 1>They was even saying you know how you take like the racer marker on things and you can erase out that.

00:24:55.611 --> 00:24:57.276
<v Speaker 1>That can be removed.

00:24:57.276 --> 00:24:59.343
<v Speaker 1>So they were just going back to that blur app.

00:24:59.343 --> 00:25:01.690
<v Speaker 1>Just to blur is the best way.

00:25:01.690 --> 00:25:06.001
<v Speaker 1>If you have to for some reason, right, show it.

00:25:06.001 --> 00:25:07.967
<v Speaker 1>That is the best way.

00:25:07.967 --> 00:25:08.930
<v Speaker 1>Versus the emoji.

00:25:09.992 --> 00:25:15.571
<v Speaker 2>Right, and since I mean gosh, when my kids were young and you know, the blog hadn't been tainted.

00:25:15.571 --> 00:25:17.920
<v Speaker 2>That's such a sense thing.

00:25:17.920 --> 00:25:26.675
<v Speaker 2>But you know, like there was body training and there was the picture, and not that you could see anything, but you know we were talking about body training tips and things that were working for us.

00:25:26.695 --> 00:25:36.616
<v Speaker 2>I'm looking back, I would remove again and my son was in a little box of briefs or whatever he was wearing at the time and you know, like I, I I'd not post that.

00:25:36.616 --> 00:25:40.508
<v Speaker 2>It just it seemed so innocent at the time and it should be.

00:25:40.508 --> 00:25:44.215
<v Speaker 2>But you know things are different, unfortunately.

00:25:44.256 --> 00:25:45.538
<v Speaker 1>Totally, you know.

00:25:45.538 --> 00:25:53.782
<v Speaker 1>I just need to again just say, like you, following your instinct, fighting for your kids, saying this is not okay, this has to be stopped.

00:25:53.782 --> 00:26:00.112
<v Speaker 1>The amount of kids and mom's lives that you've positively impacted by going through this is huge.

00:26:00.112 --> 00:26:03.000
<v Speaker 1>This is so commendable and honorable and hate.

00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:07.173
<v Speaker 1>You had to go through this, but you did what you had to do.

00:26:08.395 --> 00:26:14.609
<v Speaker 2>The mom instinct is so real and I'm not trying to bad talk my husband or anything.

00:26:14.609 --> 00:26:26.863
<v Speaker 2>But you know, initially that first comment when I don't want to say he brushed it aside, but you know when he said it's the internet and it's free speech and there's not much we could do.

00:26:26.863 --> 00:26:29.998
<v Speaker 2>You just know in your gut when something is wrong.

00:26:30.940 --> 00:26:31.481
<v Speaker 1>And.

00:26:32.704 --> 00:26:49.183
<v Speaker 2>I feel so bad, but I think I would have pushed harder in the beginning instead of waiting, because that 10 months, 12 months gap between the comments I mean he was still hitting up other mom's blogs and collecting more material and images.

00:26:49.183 --> 00:26:55.430
<v Speaker 2>And you know, if your gut is telling you something, don't stop until you get an answer or a result.

00:26:55.430 --> 00:26:59.259
<v Speaker 2>You know, and nothing's wrong with following your gut and nothing happens.

00:26:59.259 --> 00:27:06.804
<v Speaker 2>At least you know your child is safe, other children are safe, there's nothing wrong with that and always trust your gut.

00:27:06.804 --> 00:27:14.151
<v Speaker 2>Right, we're not wrong Right now, you know, and it was just kind of man.

00:27:14.151 --> 00:27:17.701
<v Speaker 2>I just I wish I would have pushed a little harder in the beginning.

00:27:18.631 --> 00:27:22.984
<v Speaker 1>I think with ultimately, at some point we just don't want it to be real.

00:27:22.984 --> 00:27:25.031
<v Speaker 1>We want it to be at one time.

00:27:25.031 --> 00:27:26.498
<v Speaker 1>Just go wait, like it's just so horrible.

00:27:26.498 --> 00:27:33.498
<v Speaker 1>You know, you just kind of like you almost don't want to recognize the extent of just darkness.

00:27:34.400 --> 00:27:35.141
<v Speaker 2>That is so true.

00:27:35.141 --> 00:27:38.236
<v Speaker 2>The first comment I mean I immediately deleted it.

00:27:38.236 --> 00:27:40.223
<v Speaker 2>I didn't save the IP address.

00:27:40.223 --> 00:27:44.138
<v Speaker 2>I did take a screenshot of it to show my husband to be like, hey, this is an issue.

00:27:44.138 --> 00:27:51.681
<v Speaker 2>But I mean I immediately deleted it because you like want to wash yourself clean, like you just can't be real, this can't be possible.

00:27:51.681 --> 00:27:56.599
<v Speaker 2>Certainly not about my child or on my blog or on my whatever, you know whatever.

00:27:56.599 --> 00:28:05.373
<v Speaker 2>But it doesn't go away and you know, the more you let it sit and fester, the bigger it becomes, and it became pretty big for a lot of moms.

00:28:05.373 --> 00:28:09.644
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to say thankfully, but my blog only had two comments.

00:28:09.835 --> 00:28:20.115
<v Speaker 2>There were moms who had multiple girls, so this particular individual really hit their blogs hard and it was just a barrage of comments constantly.

00:28:20.115 --> 00:28:21.599
<v Speaker 2>And it's just.

00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:28.103
<v Speaker 2>You know, if we could have maybe done something sooner, maybe they wouldn't have had to go through that for quite as long.

00:28:28.103 --> 00:28:39.979
<v Speaker 2>I think another thing with especially our case, because it was the internet and I believe it's because our case was a precedented one like nothing like this had ever happened before, at least been taken to courts.

00:28:41.255 --> 00:28:43.942
<v Speaker 2>I don't think many moms like knew where to go.

00:28:43.942 --> 00:28:46.079
<v Speaker 2>What do you do with this.

00:28:46.079 --> 00:28:49.721
<v Speaker 2>There's no person, there's no face, it's not a phone number.

00:28:49.721 --> 00:28:54.795
<v Speaker 2>The comment he was leaving it behind was a not like you know, one of those no reply emails.

00:28:54.795 --> 00:29:02.707
<v Speaker 2>I was like where do you go with that information and who's going to listen to you when you're just a mom writing about, like your trip to the park?

00:29:02.707 --> 00:29:08.446
<v Speaker 2>And I feel like that was kind of the consensus for some of the moms like what do we do with this?

00:29:08.446 --> 00:29:14.746
<v Speaker 2>How do we get anybody to see this and like take it seriously, when it's just this ghost of a person?

00:29:15.528 --> 00:29:22.146
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this is a great way into say a mom's out here and she gets this horrific comment.

00:29:22.146 --> 00:29:25.320
<v Speaker 1>What does she need to do with that?

00:29:25.320 --> 00:29:26.564
<v Speaker 1>To fight like you did?

00:29:27.315 --> 00:29:42.398
<v Speaker 2>I would immediately go to the FBI and every city has a tip line, essentially, and someone's always meaning it like within normal working hours, but some of them are always meaning that I would honestly or go local enforcement and go straight to the FBI.

00:29:42.398 --> 00:29:53.642
<v Speaker 2>Especially with internet, they have teams designed specifically for these types of issues and I would just push and push and push until someone hears it.

00:29:53.642 --> 00:29:56.042
<v Speaker 2>That's what the other two moms on myself did.

00:29:56.042 --> 00:29:58.261
<v Speaker 2>We just push until someone would listen.

00:29:58.261 --> 00:30:05.926
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we weren't stopping until someone seriously looked at our issue and said this is bigger, let's dig deeper.

00:30:06.708 --> 00:30:09.580
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and would you?

00:30:09.580 --> 00:30:12.287
<v Speaker 1>Delete that comment in hindsight, or would you have kept it there?

00:30:12.287 --> 00:30:14.240
<v Speaker 1>Is there any kind of tracing that?

00:30:14.842 --> 00:30:17.396
<v Speaker 2>they need to be aware For records.

00:30:17.396 --> 00:30:27.741
<v Speaker 2>I really wish I would have kept the IP address instead of deleting it right away, because once it was deleted I'm not super technically savvy so I didn't know how to go and retrieve that.

00:30:27.741 --> 00:30:37.226
<v Speaker 2>One of the other moms that went to trial with me was super on top of the ball and saved every comment, every IP address, everything she could possibly save and document.

00:30:37.226 --> 00:30:46.662
<v Speaker 2>She did, because then she was able to hand over everything she had to the FBI and that helped them tremendously in nailing down where this person was.

00:30:46.662 --> 00:30:47.964
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:30:48.715 --> 00:30:50.121
<v Speaker 1>I think back to what you said.

00:30:50.121 --> 00:30:57.160
<v Speaker 1>It's like you're fighting against an unknown person, right, like you don't know where they were, you didn't know what about them.

00:30:57.160 --> 00:31:04.423
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't like you could look across and say that's you, you could see, call the police to that person.

00:31:04.423 --> 00:31:10.607
<v Speaker 1>So it probably felt super hopeless and like you were like how can I change this?

00:31:10.607 --> 00:31:23.222
<v Speaker 1>I don't even know this physical person, and I think that's where the internet you get this like oh, we've never met, but we're like Instagram friends, right, but the same sense, we've never met.

00:31:23.222 --> 00:31:27.042
<v Speaker 1>And now you're literally wrecking my whole life.

00:31:27.042 --> 00:31:32.124
<v Speaker 1>And it can go both ways, right.

00:31:32.244 --> 00:31:53.165
<v Speaker 2>Exactly, it's such a scary thing and you don't think about it right, like you don't think you're posting such an innocent picture of the third birthday party that might fall into the hands of someone who's going to superimpose your three-year-old's face on the image of something really sexually explicit and graphic.

00:31:53.165 --> 00:32:01.226
<v Speaker 2>Once it's out of your hands, you don't know where it's going and unfortunately that was the case with the person that we dealt with.

00:32:01.226 --> 00:32:08.215
<v Speaker 2>I know there were a lot of photos that were photoshopped and doctored and it just it's just.

00:32:08.215 --> 00:32:09.960
<v Speaker 2>What do you do with that?

00:32:10.741 --> 00:32:17.267
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't have ever my mind wouldn't have ever went that they would even go that route.

00:32:17.267 --> 00:32:21.123
<v Speaker 1>I know that's just not something you would like to say.

00:32:21.123 --> 00:32:26.800
<v Speaker 1>He's not clearly normal, but a regular day mind does not go to.

00:32:26.800 --> 00:32:32.558
<v Speaker 1>They would take our child's faces and put them on situations in different bodies.

00:32:33.079 --> 00:32:35.545
<v Speaker 2>Right, but it's happened, it's happening.

00:32:35.545 --> 00:32:36.226
<v Speaker 2>It happened.

00:32:36.226 --> 00:32:46.343
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, unfortunately, our case I mean the internet part of it, I think was kind of a first, but this issue is not a first.

00:32:47.244 --> 00:33:01.203
<v Speaker 1>No, I mean the fact that they have divisions, departments, for this tells us it's alive unfortunately, and the agent we work with in Florida and the attorney.

00:33:01.304 --> 00:33:04.502
<v Speaker 2>I mean that is essentially all they do day in and day out.

00:33:04.502 --> 00:33:17.432
<v Speaker 2>I mean that's their violation just every day, all day, which I don't know how they do it, but it's a special individual who's able to bear that burden and be okay, yeah.

00:33:18.414 --> 00:33:23.586
<v Speaker 1>I was going to say I couldn't imagine having children and being in their profession every day.

00:33:24.696 --> 00:33:26.582
<v Speaker 2>The agent that we work with in Florida.

00:33:26.582 --> 00:33:27.766
<v Speaker 2>She was amazing.

00:33:27.766 --> 00:33:29.701
<v Speaker 2>I want to be her when I grow up.

00:33:29.701 --> 00:33:34.477
<v Speaker 2>And she has kids and she has grandkids and that is why she does.

00:33:34.477 --> 00:33:40.548
<v Speaker 2>What she does is because she wants to protect those who can't protect themselves.

00:33:41.758 --> 00:33:43.483
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think that's such an important message.

00:33:43.483 --> 00:33:45.118
<v Speaker 1>Well, I again.

00:33:45.118 --> 00:34:02.945
<v Speaker 1>I know it's hard to talk about this, I know it brings back a lot, and we really, though, appreciate your transparency, your honesty, your advocacy that you are sharing with our listeners and helping us think twice before we post.

00:34:02.945 --> 00:34:06.984
<v Speaker 1>And, again, I'm always like people don't know until we tell them.

00:34:06.984 --> 00:34:17.344
<v Speaker 1>So we have to have these hard conversations when it comes to even from, like, our main platform of maternal mental health, but to now, we're going to protect our child on the internet.

00:34:17.344 --> 00:34:26.784
<v Speaker 1>So you have opened a conversation door that's going to change a lot of lives, and I'm very grateful that you allowed us to share your story.

00:34:27.275 --> 00:34:35.106
<v Speaker 2>Well, thank you for giving me the time, because it's something everyone, I feel so deeply, if you like everybody, every parent needs to know this.

00:34:35.106 --> 00:34:41.181
<v Speaker 2>You know, like it doesn't affect you until it affects you, and when it does it is, it is a lot.

00:34:42.304 --> 00:34:42.545
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

00:34:42.545 --> 00:34:45.202
<v Speaker 1>Well, we ask all our guests this one question.

00:34:45.202 --> 00:34:51.639
<v Speaker 1>We say what do you wish you would have known and this can be on this topic or something totally different before you became a mom?

00:34:53.722 --> 00:34:55.047
<v Speaker 2>Wow, that's so deep.

00:34:56.364 --> 00:35:05.686
<v Speaker 1>And we've had everything I mean we've had from freeze your eggs to rest up before or your marriage will take a dip but you'll get back.

00:35:05.686 --> 00:35:07.284
<v Speaker 1>I mean we've had the whole spectrum.

00:35:07.766 --> 00:35:26.954
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I wish I would have known before I had kids that when you're in the throes of it, like you eventually come out of it, the light at the end of the tunnel some days seems non-existent or so far that you'll never get to it.

00:35:26.954 --> 00:35:29.684
<v Speaker 2>But you know those hard days really.

00:35:29.684 --> 00:35:32.110
<v Speaker 2>You really do get through them.

00:35:32.110 --> 00:35:39.271
<v Speaker 2>I wish someone would have told me it feels like it'll never end, but it really does.

00:35:39.271 --> 00:35:50.427
<v Speaker 2>And with the baby years in particular, like man, those days were really long and they were exhausting and they were isolating and it was just some days.

00:35:50.628 --> 00:35:58.391
<v Speaker 2>You just like the grime of motherhood you couldn't wash off of you because you know just everybody needed every part of you all the time.

00:35:58.391 --> 00:36:01.148
<v Speaker 2>And when you're in that you just feel like you'll never get out.

00:36:01.148 --> 00:36:13.190
<v Speaker 2>And you know I've got a beautiful 11 and seven year old now and like those days are so far away now and I just wish someone would have told me like you will get through it.

00:36:13.190 --> 00:36:29.548
<v Speaker 2>It'll be really hard but it will be so worth it and nobody ever said that it's just oh, get some sleep, or when the baby sleeps you know, that type of thing and it just that's not it.

00:36:29.900 --> 00:36:32.668
<v Speaker 2>It's just, you'll get through it and it will be okay.

00:36:32.668 --> 00:36:34.525
<v Speaker 2>That light will be just a speck.

00:36:34.525 --> 00:36:38.972
<v Speaker 2>It'll be this huge bright ball that lights up your whole life.

00:36:40.257 --> 00:37:02.246
<v Speaker 1>I think it's so important Like you said, it's just for the mom to have older kids and ask who's got littles right now, like to say, like I get it and like I can shower, I can eat now, like I can use the restroom by myself now, like I have a hobby now, like I you know, all those things Because again you just it goes.

00:37:02.306 --> 00:37:03.471
<v Speaker 1>I figured out two ways.

00:37:03.471 --> 00:37:08.021
<v Speaker 1>Like they even just forget about those days and they kind of just like ignore that you're in the trenches.

00:37:08.021 --> 00:37:10.760
<v Speaker 1>Or they're like, oh, I had it worse, you know.

00:37:10.760 --> 00:37:15.545
<v Speaker 1>And it's like, but no one's being that light Like you were in to say it's going to get.

00:37:15.545 --> 00:37:17.590
<v Speaker 1>Like you're going to hit that sweet spot.

00:37:18.010 --> 00:37:38.927
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I actually just and perhaps you've heard of this too, but I learned not too long ago that a mother flamingo loses her pink when she has babies and as they get older and they need her less, she gets her pink back, and it just you'll get your pink back.

00:37:39.949 --> 00:37:40.490
<v Speaker 1>I love that.

00:37:40.490 --> 00:37:41.413
<v Speaker 1>That's so powerful.

00:37:41.413 --> 00:37:48.213
<v Speaker 1>Well, you are welcome anytime and we will link a bunch of things with this episode.

00:37:48.213 --> 00:37:53.028
<v Speaker 1>If mom will share FEI Kind of contact information, we'll do safety tips.

00:37:53.028 --> 00:37:55.347
<v Speaker 1>So our listeners I know we gave you so much information.

00:37:55.347 --> 00:38:02.998
<v Speaker 1>You're like trying to write it down really quickly, but don't worry, Go to our show notes and, as always on Instagram, we are going to make promo for this whole episode.

00:38:02.998 --> 00:38:04.384
<v Speaker 1>Just really powerful and educating.

00:38:04.384 --> 00:38:04.985
<v Speaker 1>But that's right.

00:38:04.985 --> 00:38:09.086
<v Speaker 1>I appreciate you so much and thank you for being on.

00:38:09.762 --> 00:38:10.706
<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much.

00:38:11.561 --> 00:38:13.224
<v Speaker 1>All right, guys, tune in till next time.

00:38:13.224 --> 00:38:18.746
<v Speaker 1>Returnal mental health is as important as physical health.

00:38:18.746 --> 00:38:27.389
<v Speaker 1>The previous Alliance podcast was created for and by moms dealing with postpartum depression and all its variables, like anxiety, anger and even apathy.

00:38:27.389 --> 00:38:37.469
<v Speaker 1>Hosted by CEO founder Sarah Parkhurst and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gaye, each episode focused on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum.

00:38:37.469 --> 00:38:45.889
<v Speaker 1>Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges, as well as access tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms.

00:38:45.889 --> 00:38:50.369
<v Speaker 1>You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time.

00:38:50.369 --> 00:38:53.126
<v Speaker 1>Please know you're not alone on this journey.

00:38:53.126 --> 00:38:54.021
<v Speaker 1>We're here to help.