Moana with Natalie Baseman

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Speaker 1: On the dol Cast. The questions asked if movies have women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism the patriarchy ZF and best start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Hi, welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Jamie, my name is Caitlin, and this is the vac dol Cast. This is a movie podcast where we talked about the portrayal of women in movies. Oh yeah, I forgot first. We wanted to. It was announced recently, keeping some housekeeping things, some cool things. It was announced recently. I found an article on end gadget dot com, the whole website for tech heads. Oh, I am not super familiar with it. I'm going to pretend to be cool. The article is IMDb adds an F rating to help users identify feminist friendly movies. Does that seem a little bit condescending the F or just like confusing? Like, oh, this movie has an F but it's good should be a for ally, So I like that. I like it. I like that a lot, so be on the lookout for that. I'm not sure when they're launching that exactly. But and then the the other thing that we learned about since our last episode is the sexy lamp test, which is sort of a contemporary spin on the back Dolt test that in the sexy lamp that's a reference to Christmas story, is it not? Okay? So the sexy lamp test is none of the women can be replaced by a sexy lamp and have the plot remain intact. So it's basically just like a lesson in objectification, which we're down for. We're down. There's so many variations on tests. I mean, I mean on this website alone, the backtel test, sexy lamp test, the Mako Morey test. The Macho Morey test says a movie has to have at least one female character with her own narrative arc that is not about supporting a man's story, so it has to be her own. She has to have her own story that doesn't have anything to do with a man's goal or desires. And then there's the furious A test, which I think is mislabeled here because I'm pretty sure I created that test, and it's more the furious A rule, which is that the baldest woman in the movie is in charge. And I think that that rule pretty much holds up. Name me a movie with a bald woman who is not in charge. I don't know if I can name you a movie with a bald woman apart from mad Max, Fury Road and I Jane. Oh damn it, I was like truck card. There's another one. The anti freeze test says that no woman assaulted, injured, or killed to further the story of another character, so that cannot happen or else it does not pass the anti freeze test. So um, someone had tweeted at us a while back letting us know about the sexy lamp test. I wish I could remember that person's Twitter handle. I don't. Sorry, we'll put it in the description. Yeah. Anyway, these you with these tests were brought to our attention. So we got some other litmus tests to apply to the movies we talk about if we want anyway, let's get this moving right along, all right, Let's do it and introduce our wonderful guests. She's a screenwriter and she has written for Reductress Natalie Basement. Hi, thanks for being here. Oh, it is a pleasure to be here. O, my god, thank you for having me. So. One of the things we often mentioned on the podcast, and I don't like to bring it up, is that I have a screenwriting master's degree. Guest, who else has a screenwriting masters degree? Natalie does? Goddamn it? So serious, serious, guys. So I'm a trigger. So I'm going home. You know, you understand my struggle. It's hard. It's that I went to film school because I love movies, and it it made me so I can't watch a movie without destroying it. I have a much more critical eye when I I can see the screenwriter's hand in like every decision that's made when I'm watching a movie, but I'm still able to enjoy them. Yeah. Well, if the movie is good enough, I'll forget about it, like the movie we're going to talk about. I went to radio school to kill my new England accent and develop a very smooth delivery voice, and it's working. Thank you so much. I used to I used to host a late night R and B show and be like, this is eight eight nine at night. If you have any calls, feel free to call in for your loved one, and then it would be like CVS brand Delilah. It was nice. I was like, I hope people are sucking to this, and sometimes it would just be like horny older guys have calling and be like play a song for my wife, and I'd be like this next song goes out to Louisa on her thirtieth anniversary. I definitely what I've listened to your show, Thank you so much. I also hosted a show called The Playground where I only talked in a nasal tone. So that's what I did. That's why I'm in it good. Thank you. My mom told me today that she has a hard time distinguishing our voices whenever she was listening to the podcast. I have sometimes too, Really, do we say enough alike? I think that we have. Maybe I should start talking in like an Australian accent. Hey are we It's that? What's silent? So that's really good? Bad, that's really good. Thanks. I only have like two voices, which is tricky. I can talk like my former co worker Nick, and then I can just talk hear it, Hey, Nick, what's going on? Hey that's going a nice Nick Hanson? Yeah, Nick, I have a blag about turkey sandwiches. I live in Minnesota. I'm the nicest by a lot, and I used to like write sketches about Nick everyone following on Twitter at Nick Hanson m N. I used to write sketches about Nick when we worked together, and I would always make him like a vicious murderer and kept his name like. There was one thing used to do where I would be like wearing a wig and I'd have a gun under the wig. I would be just Nick going from table to table being Hella, I have again under my wig. Do you believe me? And then people would be like no, He'd be like, take off my wig. I defy it. To take off my wig. It was so much fun. I missed it. That is a pretty good Nick impression. Though you and I went to grad school together. Again, I don't like. I don't like. Oh my god, guys, in spite of the fact that I've been making cartoons about Nick being a murderer and the cartoons are making fun of his Turkey sandwich blog. He sent me and my dad a Christmas cards. Last act, he's a very Nicholas. He sent me a DVD of Ferris Bueller's Day Off on my birthday. I don't even have a DVD player. I love it. Hey, speaking to DVDs, let's talk about the movie that we're here to talk about. Okay, don't sound so defeated, because it's a movie that we enjoy, we really like. We we're talking about Moanna. It came out last year, so it's not as though any of us have a huge history with this movie. But you saw in theaters, right, Natalie. I saw it at a It was a special preview at my grad school. WHOA what you went to grad school? Sometimes they do at special previews data special screen of Mohanna that was presented by the Pacific Islanders Group at the school, which was really great because there were a lot of students there who are either from the Pacific Islands Hawaii or around there or are descended from there, and I live here and so they were all super pumped for it. So it was just a really great vibe going into it. And then there was an interview with the screenwriter after overtty cool. Yeah, and this was this before like the theatrical release. Yeah, just a couple of weeks there. And I didn't know that the screenwriter of this had had a hell of a year last year because he also wrote and directed Utopia. Kidding, Yeah, he was like a low gas animator last year and he looks like just the widest dad. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, he for sure golfs, but he also had an amazing So you saw it a little bit before because it came out in two around November, was it, Yeah, it was right, it was right before the holidays, and I just I just kept thinking about it. I left the theater and I went in with very low expectations, maybe a little bit higher because I did enjoy Frozen so much, And then I was just so blown away and just listened to the soundtrack forever after and it's still stuck in my head. And I rewatched it for the third time last night in preparation for this, and it is. It's just a beautiful movie. It is. It's almost everything I ever wanted out of a Disney princess movie, but never never knew I wanted. Yeah, exactly. Every time I've seen it, I've been so emotional because it's like, this is the this is what Disney movies should have been like all along. Caitlin didn't cry, but she did sing. I did, right. So I watched it twice in the past day and a half. So the story is Moanna is the daughter of a chief on an island, called Moutanui, and we learned about this sort of creation legend in the very beginning where this demigod Maui has stolen the heart. I like to call it the heart of the Ocean, Titanic reference call it. I know that they ever actually do it. They always call it the heart of Taffiti, because I mean, like that would be like I would have loved that there was an overt tan reference. Well, she wears it around her neck if it were true, and Mauie drops her naked. Yeah, so Maui steals the heart from this mother island, and then it creates this sort of leg that is spreading to the other islands and like diseasing the crops and all this stuff. So this starts to happen to the island that Mowana lives on with her family, her mom and her dad and her grandma. She also, throughout the course of her childhood is drawn to the ocean, and her dad's like, you can't go out. It's dangerous. You have to stay on the island. You can't go out sailing, And she's like, but I wanna. So I think it would be funny if we subbed in cocaine for the ocean. She's like, I can't stay away. I was born with this desire to snort coke. And then she sings the same song about it would explain how she got to the island so quickly, right, just just very focused. She's like, I kinda go right now. I'm being fast. Oh yeah, I know she Yeah, she's got that co cattled brain. Yeah. So she's drawn to the ocean, and the ocean sort of chooses her to it, like delivers her this heart, this little rock that's the heart of the ocean, and she's a baby, but she doesn't really know about it. Turns out her grandma found it for her and has been keeping it for her. And then when the crops start to get to disease and there's no fish, she's like, I gotta go and fix this. There's a whole global warming climate change. I made notes about it. So she decides to she gets the call to adventure. She goes off and she takes a boat because she learns that their ancestors were all voyagers, and so she's like, I gotta get on these boats. I'm gonna go off and I'm gonna go to Maui. The stemigod who fucked everything up. I went back up a little bit to say, ten minutes of topless baby, we do see some babies nipples. We see baby nips and progressive in every way. I'm like, you know what, loving not aroused by these baby nips. Just happy they're here. I didn't even think about that, and I'm so happy that's the case. I think I literally shouted baby nips. All right, we watched it together. This is we did. We watched together. Oh, we're hottest couffle. Oh. And when the grandmother, when she's sick and dying, she brings Mohana close and says go and she says, grab Mauie, and you tell him I am mo Wanna from Montanui and you will do this. You will sail across the ocean and you will do this, and just so forceful and beautiful. It was great. So she does, she goes, and she um kind of self teaches herself. I do feel like with the death of the grandma, they do shoehorn in a maternal death as a motivation. Um. But but I wasn't bothered by it. I wasn't either, but it just felt worth mentioning. So she goes, she finds Mauie. He is a dick, but we love him, and he agreed. He agrees to reluctantly help her after she convinces him, Yeah, you thought you were great, but no one likes you anymore, so you have to redeem yourself. And they, you know, encounter some coconut pirates along the way. They only agrees so he can go get his magical hook bad and then they go do that, and there's a very sexy song shiny yeah, Oh my god, the yeah, the Germaine Clement pulling a bowie. I loved that. That was so good. And You're welcome, which is the ultimate man's bliny song. The rock just really delivers so on every level. So where he's a shape shifter and but he needs a magical hook that was bestowed to him by the gods to be able to shape shift. So they go and they get his hook, and then he, like again reluctantly agrees to help her restore the heart and they go and there's a lot of a monster they have to defeat, and she questions who she is the whole time, like, am I the right person for this? Why was I chosen? And he's just like egging her on, being like, yeah, why were you chosen? And so she has all this self doubt, um, but she's very driven throughout the entire thing. And then finally they get to DEFETI. She restores the heart. She's the one who does it, even though the whole time it's like, now you have to be the one to do it, and then she realizes, no, I have to be the one to do it. So she is integral and the like actual climax and resolution of the story, which is great. Last night, I was watching it by myself and I was basically crying the whole time. So what are your crime moments? Because I cry every time I've seen this movie, and I've cried listening to soundtrack and it is last night I tried to write down when I cried so we could compare it. What are the most moment? The biggest one that makes me the most emotional is toward the end, after Maui has decided to leave, Like, they attempted defeating I forget what the law of monster's name is. Um, they attempt defeating her once and they fail. So mal he's like, I'm going to get out of here. And Molana is like, I've made a mistake. I shouldn't even you chose the wrong person. Please choose someone else, Ocean, and then her grandma shows up and they sing a song together and she's like, I am mo wanna. That's so just like so good. Water works the lyrics of that song because I was singing along and then realized I actually don't know the lyrics and I'm just singing the emotions. But then I looked up the lyrics and was bawling because they are beautiful. It's like there's a line about how the scars make you stronger, and I mean, well, might as well jump into it. But I really think this movie is so much about overcoming trauma and overcoming these hard things that can happen to you. And and even though Mohanna doesn't necessarily she's she's the savior of the victim and it's and it's in that moment she is so defeated and then overcomes it by just repeating who she is, and it's beautiful. The Disney movie that it most closely reflected for me was Pocahon Tests, which was my first favorite movie. I believe that there are hours of home video footage of me just screaming colors of the wind out a mountain in New Hampshire, like Age three, but for for a couple of reasons, even though like it's a you know, Pocahon is hinged on, you know, she falls in love with the man, but also she lets him go at the end. But more so like this young woman who goes on an adventure and then at the end she learns about herself. She learns about A, B and C, but then decides that her place is at home with her family, and there's some sort of duty connected to her home into family, which I wasn't sure where this movie was going to end. I wasn't sure if Moana was going to leave home or stay and and I think I would have been happy with either. And it didn't bother me one bit that she returned home at for this journey all wise and coming away, Well, she returns home, but then she's like, guys, let's all be voyagers again. She teaches her dad how to be away finder and stuff. It is beautiful. Caitlin, What was your Disney Princess movie growing up? If you had one. The ones that I connected with most were Little Mermaid Aladdin, which I mean, Jasmine is a princess and it's kind of a Disney princess. She's like, yeah, she's barely in it. I also really loved Being but those are both like so problematic that I don't even want a bit. Yeah, I was a big Cinderella girl, and I would I would watch both the Disney version and then like every other version, I could get Rogers and Hammerstein Baby the best, the Brandy version. And what is so great about Mohana is that they really play with the tropes of the fairy Tale and of the Disney Princess movie and turn it on its on its head, but in ways that are not jarring, but in ways that may right. So like the Fairy Godmother and Cinderella saves the day, and also Cinderella would still be there if the fair Godmother never came, and the fairy Godler saves her over and over again, whereas the fairy Godmother in this movie, I would say, is the ocean. And yes, she is saved by the ocean over and over again, but the ocean is presented as very dangerous at the start of the movie, almost kills her, and she saves herself. She gets her foot caught underneath a rock and then breaks it away and swims away. And she whenever I was trying to pay attention to it this last time, I watch it. Every time the ocean saves her, she has done something to try and save herself before the ocean does, right right, Yeah, I mean I was worried about the ocean kind of becoming a device to get her out of situate, but it never really came to that. It was always I mean, there were times where it came in as an assistant, but you know, she she was always the one taking action. She does all the heavy lifting. Yeah, yeah, there's ah man. It was so good, And I totally agree with the Natalie that, like all the you know, displacements of the basic Disney Princess tropes were I didn't feel shoehorned or forced or like overdone, which they totally could have been. And the fact that I feel like it's worth mentioning that Moana's body type is like normal, It's like mildly realistic, as close to proportional as probably a Princess style character has ever been, which is really really cool. No like two inch waste and and all this stuff. She seems like strong, like physically strong and able, which need to be and we see her like doing these like pretty amazing feats of strength. Every time she'd pull a rope, I'd be like, well, that is, I couldn't do that. She's kind of like Aladdin in that way. She's from the beginning of the movie. She is doing these feats of strength in these of acrobatics, and she runs up and fixes the pomp fronds in the building and stops the leaking, and and then everything with the ship requires so much physical strength. On the same topic of like the bodies and stuff one of crime moment number one, the first time I saw it was so the grandmother was like just a beautiful character and the relationship is wonderful, but the grandmother's arms like hit something inside of me that I didn't know was there really, And it was like, you know, even when they show uh different figures on TV, it's often larger hips, a larger bust, even a larger waist, but you know something like arms are still very skinny and trim and like or like sleeved or sleeved or and and to see this like woman's skin that is alive, that is an old woman's body. That was like, oh my god, those are my grandmother's arm show me that decay baby, I was. I was actually going to bring up the grandmother too, because that was the other big thing that reminded me of Pocahontas, except the role of the grandmother is a tree. But that tree is dope and very helpful, like Moana's grandma. My mom. We had like a tree that it was not a willow tree. It looked nothing like the tree. But I was so into Pocahontas as a kid that I think she like brought a sharpie out to her tree and there was like a little hole in it like grandmother Willa's face, and she added a little smiley face with eyelashes and then she'd be like Jamie, look, and I would just go talk to the tree. It was maybe to get rid of me for a while because I would just go confess to the tree, that's amazing. Oh. The thing I wanted to mention about her just being physically strong, which that is oftentimes when movies want to like show that a woman character is like not your typical lady like the others, like stronger than normal or a trope you see over and over again when just I don't really understand is she's good at fixing cars, but like nickan Fox and transforming and something I forgot to mention in Um Runaway Bride, Julia Roberts knows how to fix cars and that makes you more handy. But anyway, it wasn't like, oh, what a stupid trope to rely on in mo Wana, Like she lives on an island and you know they're farming in harvesting crops, and like she would have to be right. It's so justified and we see her getting trained for it, so it like comes from somewhere and it doesn't feel like one of those lay mass like action movie tropes of like you know, there's is great. I think it's a mixed Wheeney's piece that I think about at least once a week about like I'm the woman and I can kick and it's like, you know, like the one amazing thing the woman can do. And then the guys turned to her like what the woman could do a thing? And she's like, whatever, I guess I can, and that's like the one display of female strength. She like kicks open a door and they're like, wow, we're more horny now, you know. And it's just like so infuriating, and you can feel the screenwriter like grabbing his crotch in a congratulatory fashion. Of course. Yeah, there's a moment when Maui abandons her on the island. Yeah, there's this episode maybe two hours long I have loved to talk about. So she gets trapped on the island because Maui traps her in a cave and there's like a statue that he clearly made of himself yea, and she like crawls up it and then like kicks it over and like uses it to jump into which is very like Raiders of the Lost Arc. Yeah uh. And then she like has to climb out of this like hole in this ceiling and stuff, and I'm just like fu yeah, dude, she defies Mauie so much. I love it. I love I love her. In Mauie's relationship, I was the whole time, I was like, Caitlin, will they kiss? And well, I feel okay about it because there were moments where I was like, is this daddy or boyfriend? You know, Like there's moments where their hands would touch and I'd be like, hmmm, he has one million years old, am I okay with this? And then by the end it was sort of like, you know what, I am okay with it, but then nothing happens. But that's like one of the amazing things about this movie is there is a complete void of romantic interest and and that is part of Oh my god, I'm doing a great job because from the show room downstairs. Um, that's like part of what makes this movie so amazing. And because I think I'm so first of all trained to expect and second of all genuinely love princess movies that I was sort of waiting for a love interest to arrive and it never happened. And in retrospect, that's great. Had she kissed Mauie, I would be like, okay, oh, I would have been furious. I would have I would have the first time I saw I would have common media. The second time, I'd be like, hey, maybe that's when he's a million and I think that's I think that's a real Um. The only reason why we like Maui is because the rock is amazing and because Mauie, like, when you break down what he does, he steals the heart of this island, which is a god who made him. He essentially rapes her, takes her power, uses it to do all kinds of ship It becomes his power, and then Moanna is tasked to bring that heart back to the island. And all he does is try and kill Moanna. He is constantly trying to throw her off a boat and the multiple time of her just leave her on this island that he was deserted for years and years. He talks down to her, He is rude, he calls her. He derogatorily calls her a princess, which is very interesting because it was I found that to be a little heavy handed that, you know, they wanted to get the princess thing in there, but the way they did it I liked because she stood up for herself was just like I'm not a princess. Yeah. There's a line where he's like, if you wear a dress and you have an animal sidekick, you're a princess. And she's like, no, I'm the daughter of a chief. I see his boy off and it's both, Yeah, I can't be both. I almost found it too third wave that she's like, I'm not a princess. I was like, you can be a princess. You can just be a better princess. This is the final wave of feminism, and it's invented by me. She's final way feminism is the last one is there was I was going to try to make a pun about ocean waves. Speaking of bad pun. Fuck. The twitter joke in this movie makes a twitter every time there's like, I was like, why this movie is dated in no other way except for that horrible joke. And so that twitter joke in so many ways encapsulate his his character. So he makes a joke that's dumb and bad. He makes a bad joke which is, uh, you know when you're doing a great job, oh thank you. When you write with a bird, it's called tweet, or it's called twitter, which is a real growner. And then later on they get attacked by these coconut things. Oh my god, this point of the mind, and we'll get there too, because it's a lot of violence but emoji coconuts. But he she loses the heart, which is the whole reason why she's doing everything, the heart of this ocean, which is this green stone. And he smiles and he's like, but you got one right here, and he holds up the paddle where he etched that stupid Twitter joke where he signed his name in a heart, and it's like, you piece of shit. You are not taking her seriously at any moment. And I love Mauie. I love him. He's charming, and he's got a hot bod. His tattoos are ridiculous. A beefcake, He's a beefcake beyond. He's a demigod, he's hercules and everything he does. When I write it down, it's like, I fucking hate you. I hate you. Are the villain. You are the villain of this movie. This is the point where I would usually say in the podcast, I could fix fixing. I could fix him with my love on my body. And I would like Jamie No to be afforded that opportunity. And you know, okay, it is. The Rock plays a major thing in what makes me horny for Mauie, and also probably some internalized misogyny. But the Rock is the most talented man to ever live. If he ever turns out to be a fucking mon stir, I will throw myself off a building because he is perfect. I had the same thought today, and like, what does that say? What does that say about us? That we are waiting for the other shoe to drop on these men that we love, I mean more often than not. Yeah, like it, you know every time. I feel like every time I mentioned being a fan of a straight man of of any distinction, someone goes like, oh no, but didn't You are like, yeah, he killed people using a shank he made out of soap. But he's not in jail, you know, And then I'm just like, oh great, now, my, you know I can't love Kelsey Grammar anymore. Kelsey Grammar, yeah them all? Fuck? You know. Have we lost Alex Alex Trebek yet? Can I keep him? I see a good boy. I haven't heard anything. Have you ever seen a good boy? I mean, not a felon? You know, if you're listening right now and you haven't seen pictures of shirtless young Alex Trebec, treat yourself. He has the same mustache, incredible abs. It's weird, amazing. I have a real thing I would like to say, as we tend to find again and again. In spite of the fact that this is so well done in regards to how it treats his female characters, obviously, it passes the Backtel test with flying colors. It is directed by and written by straight white men, which is kind of par for the course when it comes to stuff like this. But I went into watching it with you blind and didn't do my research until after i'd already finished, because I didn't want to find out anything that would disappoint me in advance, such as it was written and directed completely by straight white men. And it's like, it's not surprising, and in some regards, it's encouraging straight white men at least, you know, giving them the least benefit of the doubt, understand that it's now marketable to be re suitable to their female characters and to empower them. But it's still, you know, it's disappointing in its way that it's like, Okay, it's great that these guys understand that people are interested in a movie with a female protagonist with a normal body and ambition and you know, like a really grounded character. But come on, like, I mean, there are plenty of women screenwriters and directors and other four. There's two of them in the room right now, so we are Hirer's I'm here too when you are else. You are a very talented animator and editor and filmmaker. When I went and saw this at school, and there was an interview with the screenwriter at the end. It was very disappointing to see him walk on stage that it was another white guy who works at Disney looks like the same, and I do wonder. I think you make an interesting point, Jamie, and that how much of corporate interest kind of goes into those decisions. Because one of the interesting things he said, someone had asked, you made the decision to have Moanna's mother be alive because most Disney princesses have dead mothers, and he said, oh, yeah, well she was dead to begin with. Then someone pointed out that it was dead mother and we had to change it. And I was like, oh, okay, So how many other points did you have to change because someone was like, no, you can't, you can't do that. Maybe this is jaded, but I would say probably a lot. Like if they thought that feminism and positive betrayal of of women characters was in no way marketable, there's no chance to me that this would have been like a major Disney release, Like they've received so much criticism over the years, and I'm like, I feel like, you know, with the Internet that's only grown larger and more pervasive and it's I don't know. I mean, it really is kind of the best case scenario where it's like, well, at least this movie was made and it's really good and it's corporate interests aside. It sends the right message to the right people. With just young girls seeing this movie, Um, it's a start. It's it's a start, and it means that there are let a let a woman get a fucking job for once, Jesus Christ. And what's upsetting is that so there were women in this process. There were tons, tons of people worked on this film. So there were dozens and dozens, if not more, women who worked on this movie. And they obviously listened to them because if they were getting that kind of feedback, and I know, I know their process is very collaborative, but when it comes down to it, when you give the man the writing credit, when you give the man that paycheck, it sucks that that does suck. And I know they are changing a little bit, but the infrastructure of how Disney works is you have to work your way up and you have to be with them for so long and they test you over and over and over again, and that's it's it's a then becomes a systemic problem. I'd be interested in learning more about that process, because that definitely makes a lot of sense that if even if women are being mentored and groomed for these kind of jobs now, we won't see it until, you know, ten years from now, when they're given the opportunity to finally do it. But my question is our women being mentored? I feel like so often and and I don't know how much of this even factors into prejudice, but like people gravitate towards you know, you remind me of a younger me to mentor. And if everyone working at a high level there is a white guy and custom sort of trains you. And this goes for powerful women training younger powerful women as well. But like, if you're drawn to someone who room I into of a younger version of you with potential, then who is supposed to mentor these like younger women animators are like aspiring dirt. I mean, it's something that's brought up again and again, but it's so fucking frustrating. I'm like, does does a woman need to just completely self educate herself and not be guided along in the same way that that, uh, you know, a guy would be. And it seems like that might be the case of just like, Okay, you've got worked twice as hard to get the same thing, and you're gonna have to take all the ship along the way. I'm just like, I'm just ranting. No, you're making all the right points, because yeah, then women are put in a position where they, yeah, like you said, have to work so much harder. It takes them so much longer. They don't have the same connections as someone's a powerful mentor it does have, so them having those same opportunities is just so much less likely to happen. I mean, yeah, and and it you know, it's like sort of that thing where it boils down to like is your work good? Which I don't think men have to confront that basic truth as much of not only are you not going to get the mentor opportunities that this person working on an equal level is you who's a man will, but also like, show me what you can do in spite of the fact that you don't have the same amount of access and you have to work twice as hard to get the same thing. And I mean, it is nitpicky to an extent, because Molana does so well, but I would I would hazard to guess that so much of the success of this movie comes from gentle guidance or hinting heavy or not from I would guess women that eventually the credit ends up going to these men. And the fact that you were saying that the mother was dead in the original draft is like a fucking course she was. And it's just another example of like, Okay, the woman's going to actually know the right thing to do, but someone else is going to get credit for it, and just I'm gonna flip. It's very frustrating. Yeah, I just ran. Can we talk about the climax of it? Yeah, ninety she realizes, uh, he says, you have to return the heart to the spiral, and so she goes and she makes she's running from Taka the fire Monster, and she runs up to the top of the island chain and she looks and sees that it's missing, and then she looks at Taka and sees that there's a spiral on her chest. And when you're watching a scene, you can kind of see leading up to them that it has a human form, the monster, but also a very feminine form totally, and so you she realizes that it is. It is is is t and bawling, and she just like she sings this Lulla by this, this mournful song saying I'm sorry you were hurt, you were victimized, and I'm here to make that good again. And I know who you are, right right, and she listens like I was so prepared. Again. I feel like you're conditioned by these types of movies for that villain to be killed and not somehow reformed or revealed to have good qualities. Because the lava monster again to hark him back to another princess movie, vaguely reminded me of the part in The Little Mermaid where Ursula gets huge, where she steals the ground. She's like, I'm huge now, and she gets harpooned by a man by by Prince Eric, the hottest prince, and and she dies and then everything is fine. But this seemed like, Okay, here's this other monstrous, the villainous female character, and not only is it resolved by the female protagonists, but no killing happened. I don't think anyone is killed in this movie as except the some coconuts. Coconut is just a broad representation of male violence. It's a massacre that is a massacre. But another another what I thought was like more Indiana Jones illusions were when they're finally escaping the Coconut pirates there two of their ships start to collide and they have to escape through them, which is what happens in Last Crusade. And I was like, yeah, now that you say that, I'm sorry to keep going back to the mother character, but now that you say that she originally wasn't there, that totally checks out because she barely play. That was one thing I noticed where every all the criticism of like Moana, don't go it is from the dad. And so it makes sense that that mother was sort of written out because we have a few moments between her and Moana, but nothing plot changing her significant that I can think of. Most of the oppositional forces her dad. It is her mother who gives her, almost gives her permission to leave, that brings her, brings her food for the journey and says, right, maybe even doesn't she She comes in, Yeah, she comes in, and she sees mo wanna packing for this trip that she has to go on, and like realizes what's about to happen, and we as audience might expect Oh, she's about to try to dissuade her from this or tell her she can't go, and instead she like gives her gesture like, yes, here you go, here's the maybe you need. She understands the drastic nature of of what's happening to their islands dying, and the father will would have just let it die. The chief would have just let them all die. Male pride. Yeah, Basically, the metaphor I came up with is that the heart was is the e p A and all the men in the story are like the Republicans, who are like, we don't need this. Well, it doesn't matter that the world is dying. We're fine. And I think a white man wrote it wild. At the end, I would like to say that Molana receives a Georgia O'Keefe seashell, that she the conch shell, the vagina conch. Yeah, it was beautiful. I was like, I it's perfect that this movie ends on a beautiful vaginal note. I liked it a lot. They did not need to make a pink However, they're like, you know what they should look like? I think that's what look like. They're usually they're sometimes white on the outside and pink on the inside. But this was like just like like you could also see this is a pus yeah, and the shell did come just squirted salt water. I was like, all right, we get it. Movie. Yeah. Molana fucking rules. She's the best UM. I like that she's such an empowered character that they didn't need to give her the standard best friend character um, which I feel like a lot of Disney princesses have, is like a female friend to be like, hey, you're great, and you know, Mohanna is great, and that just comes across. We don't need this ancillary person to be like like you're hot, Yeah, we like you. It's like, of course we like you, You're Mohanna. And she knows it too. She's so confident she screams, I am Moanna. I was like, oh god, I want that for one second or I feel that way. She's confident, but it's also balanced by, like, like I said, the self doubt that she has about like is this mission the thing that I'm supposed to be doing? Am I capable of this? Which is just very realistic. It just shows that she's a dynamic, well written, interesting character and not just like what a lot of Disney Princesses have Been, which is pretty just one dimensional and flat and boring. One of my favorite moments of the film, and it's a film, it's a film, is right after she sings I Am Mo Wanna and she dives down to at the heart back because she's thrown it into the ocean like Rose at the end of Titanic, giving it back. She goes and she gets and she and it's the music swells and she burst back up and the music cuts out, and she's the ghost of her grandmother is gone, her boat is broken, and she is alone in the ocean, and it is just this beautiful moment of oh my god, this is still so dangerous for her, and this is the moment where she has the most confidence and where she is about to kick ass. Yet it is stark and quiet and she is alone, and it was just it's just like a punch in the gut, but then a like a good a good punch in the gut, and we have stupid chicken for like the younger kids who went to see the movie, who like, aren't it's the ice age squirrel, right yeah, right there, Like this is a goofy speaking that's the other that's your voice I can do. Yeah, I stick that. Hey, guys, I don't know what to do with myself. I uh so. I did some research on the directors, and I know we touched on the fact that their straight white men. But I think their history with Disney is also super interesting because they also directed, um, I guess what is considered the second most groundbreaking Disney Princess movie, which is Princess in the Frog, first African American Disney Princess. So I guess it sort of makes sense that they were selected to do this other female progressive movie. I would also argue Brave did a lot of great things, so I thought that was interesting. And then years and years back, they directed both The Little Mermaid and Aladdin, which I think we've referenced in different ways in both of these. So one of the interesting things that the that the screenwriter talked about is it John Wills. Is that his name? John? Let me look it up. It's yeah, the one who's who's kind of credited John Muska. Oh oh wait, No, that's one of the directors, Jared Bush. Yes, that is right, Jared Bush. Okay, I said John Wilson, it was I don't know who John Willson's, but one of the things he was saying was they Disney overall because they had these basically patriarchs of the of Disney animation, we're working on this project, that they wanted to have some of that kind of old school Disney animation in the film, and so specifically it was their idea that when during your Welcome the song, when it switches to both two D animation and three D animation, that was their owed to kind of harkening back to that time because they were so good with it. I that's so fun because I remember thinking when we were watching that that that number vaguely reminded me of friend like me when they kept switching to different backgrounds, and that sort of carried through as oh that and they were the directors of Lennon. There you go. Also, we've got to talk about lin Manuel Miranda love Hamilton's as a person. I think lin Manual Miranda is so obnoxious, hate watching him talk, respect the funk out of his work. And that is my stance on Linden wal Miranda. But um, I would like to take a moment to brag and say I once went to a college party Miranda. Wait where he is that Emass and his his improv team Freestyle of Supreme there his beat boxer went to you mass and so they came back. Course he has a beef boxer. Uh so, I don't remember anything about him from the party, but I remember he was there. That's pretty cool, and that's really and I loved in the Heights. His first musical is so good and he's so good in it. But he's just as with any major figure, it reaches the point where it's like, Okay, you're too present, Like take a step back, pulling Adele, have a baby, you know, get your life to get Yeah, take a step back and then come back and we'll be like, oh, we missed this guy right now. It's like, get out of my targeted ads. I'm sick of this. But uh no, he didn't write all the songs. He wrote some of the songs in this movie, and I feel like you can sort of tell exactly what they are once you know that he wrote on this movie like You're welcome, like stinks of one Manua Miranda and his style um in a good way. It's stinks of him. Can we talk about top knots in this movie. Yes, I loved the role of top Knots in this movie. What is the hairstyle of Like when it made sense for Moanna's hair to be out of her face, it was fucking out of her face. It was great. Same with Little I had no idea. Let's let here beef cake top Now that's the name of my new really bad improfive. Yeah, beef cake top not I one of the things. This is a little off topic, but going back to the beginning of the story where she's poised as she's going to be the next chief even though she's a woman, she's a girl. Um never usually yeah, never questioned. She's just like, you're our daughter. You're going to be the chief because you're the daughter. So it's never like, oh but you're a woman, so you need to marry a boy so that he can be the chief introduced right exactly. So, UM, I love that. That's just never a thing that's brought up. It's just like, yeah, you're the chief because you're the descendant of the current chief. Doesn't have anything to do with your gender. UM love that. And you see her making she's like kind of in training when she before she leaves, Uh, the island to go off on the journey, and she's like making important decisions about the crowd. These trees are diseased, so we have to plan a new growth over there, and here's all my suggestions about how we can fish differently and all this stuff, and she's like giving sound advice and really like making important decisions. And it was just like so refreshing to see she was, Yeah, she was never really questioning herself. Ye she only really started to question herself when she got into the ocean, when she explicitly had her father's and that not opposite of permission and that and that made sense in context because she genuinely did not know what she was doing at the first time. Where it's not like she's not doubting herself because she's a woman. She's doubting herself because she doesn't know what she's doing, ever done this before, And then when she figures it out, that doubt more or less goes away. So that was dope. Another thing I wanted to point out is that it's so seldom that when there's sort of like a chosen one in a story, it's almost always a man. Harry Potter, you got your yea Neo from the Main Tricks. You got your uh, your Frodo Baggins is in your diminutive men are chosen as the one. Yeah when uh the second time I watched this, I watched it with my boite friend and halfway through he was like, oh, so this is Star Wars. Yeah, yeah, it's it's Star Wars. Yeah. I mean it's like in the hero's journey my kind of sense, a classical call to adventure, but so often it's the man who's is doing that. It's so just again so refreshing to see it is a woman, because we so rarely see that. Although I do when someone says chosen one, I do automatically think of Buffy. But that's because Buffy hit me real hard at a very specific age, and so that's just stuck with me. I think I think it is cool that because this when you met it out, it really is a very very very standard hero's journey, but a hero's journey that is usually for a male character. Like it's not a princess's journey. It's a hero's journey, which I mean, I don't know. If this were a story about a man, it would be boring, it would not be super interesting to see a man be like I can do things, but sometimes I'm said, you know, but when we see Moana do it, it's it's so crazy and like reflective of our own culture that we're like, what, this is the coolest thing ever. Because if we made her a man, I don't know how much I would have liked this movie. Probably not that much. It would have just okay, cool, Yeah, another one, good for you. She really didn't have any major flaws that were, you know, kind of preyed upon for story or or as false of her own. Do you think that's a bad thing or an okay thing? I don't. I don't have any problem with it in this movie. I mean, I'm the only person who really goes after her is Maui, and she's gone. She's gone after mostly for youth and an experience, and I feel like that's the most commonly I did thing of He doesn't toss her out of the boat to certain death because she's a woman, per se, rather because he doesn't see value in her skills, because she's he keeps saying, because you're mortal, very human, right right. Regardless, she is tossed out of a boat multiple time, I left to die constantly like yeah, yeah, the ocean saves her tat. He gets the tat of her at the end, like aspiration. There's a couple so when the coconut pirates attack them, um, the coconuts, there's a couple of different times where she either saves Maui or saves herself or and then towards the end of that scene or that sequence, she's like, all right, you're not gonna help me. I'm gonna go do it. And she has to be the one because she knows coconuts. She knows coconuts. Now they're just sentient. Yeah, it's interesting. It's when when they were far away and when they were lots of them, and when they were approaching and they were menacing, she was scared. And then when she found out that they were coconuts, she lost her fear and she was like, oh, I can handle that. I can handle this. Even though they still were dangerous. It still were shoots, coconuts, head darts, and knives. They're also talk about like and not to take away from the value of the coconuts as characters, uh, not that that scene could have easily been taken out, but that was For me, that was like, what a what an excellent marketing move. Let's introduce these adorable emoji like characters that are slightly violent but ultimately very cute that we can put on a backpack. Like it was. I think when we were watching it, I equate them completely to the aliens in the Alien Toys and Toy story of just like you're cute things that people will be like, oh my little the Coconut Boys movie can make more money and merchandise. Give boys, give little alien backpack. That that said, I would get a backpack of the Coconut Voice. I have a whole collection of the figurines. True, there was the one part of the movie that felt like, oh this is this feels like for kids? That could have been Yeah, that's also the kids movie, so that's okay, true, true, true, that was Yeah. That was the one scene that I was like, how different would the movie be if that were? You know, there's so many scenes for Moanna takes action an agency that I feel like that's the the emoji coconut scene that was for the backpacks. Can we talk about her going to the Monster Realm? Yes, yes, yes, because it's it again. She is told to stay put, but she's she's not going into the monster realm, and she immediately follows him up this giant uh made of these pillars like the giants causeway, and goes there and then he's like, all right, are you going to jump in with me? Doesn't think she's going to, and then does, which is awesome, and it was very scary and all these cutes great like scary crazy monsters. And then we meet this like amazing crab who is another version of greed and masculinity in the in this pompous way, but also in a very lovable way. Yeah, what a lovable villain song. U Soyland songs are always the best Disney song, always always. I was worried. I mean, I was telling you. I was like, is there not a Dylan song just because song? Where's the best song? This is a this is a great song. Yeah, I really enjoyed it. Dan crushes it. He's so sexy. How many times so I guess so he's the horniest person alive every time he speaks or especially when he sings. I'm just like, you're for sure rock hard. Like how he's seing this song as a crab, He's like for sure, arex Are you sure that's not just how he makes you feel? No, I don't get an I'm a sexless being. I don't see sex, but I'm a person of sex. I'm a person of sex. But like I don't see sex. But but he's he's extremely he's deeply horny. And in that scene, it's Mowanna who saves the day. Again. She does not get horny. She does she does not get distracted by sexual glam rock at play. She staves Maui and she it allows them to escape. This is another example of one of the very few movies with a woman lead that the stakes are life and death, because so often if there's a female lead in a movie, it's a rom com, where like the stakes are very low. Am I going to get a date? Right? And there's a sky gonna fall in love with me? Um? And the stakes are related mostly to men, And the stakes were not related to men, they were right, I mean people. I feel like a lot of times with like the Princess movies too, it's like the biggest risk for the female character is just going back to where she started, where like had a Laddin not swept Jasmine off rr feet she would just still be a princess. She'd be married to that prince Ahmed who was a jerk with sunch a punk, and then Ariel. If she couldn't get Eric to kiss her in three days, she well, I guess she would have turned into a weird ursula shrub. I guess that was a little bit higher stakes bell, But she risked her whole life for him. The whole thing starts because she has a bone for Eric, which get it, but grow up, grow up. But it's I think it's the show years old. I'm not a child. Yeah, they're both sixteen because the sixteen So it's nice to show I wasn't sexual at sixteen. I was thinking about things, but I didn't know what. I had no tangible idea of what sex actually was. Moana is a much more relatable character to me because I didn't get my first kiss until I was sixteen. It was scary. I didn't know what interaction felling. I was like, oh no, wait, why was your first on him? I don't know it was on him? It was it was I think he told this story. You guys were standing on a rock or something. Bona rock was standing on bona rock as it was henceforth known as and the first saxophone player of the band was like, I think you're great. I was like, and then he kissed me. And then I was like, what's going on? Because we stood up and we should not have stood up. But also there I was so under educated about sex that the first time someone went down on me I was horrified and thought it was his idea, like he had made it up. He did oral sex and a woman because I was, you know, it was what like seventeen eighteen, he wasn't good at it and it was happening. I was just remember thinking like this is dev and behavior, Like why would someone do this? I am? I'm just I feel far away from the action. Do you not learn about I feel it? I did not get sex education. All I got like abstinence plus education, but I think they mentioned oral sex. Yeah, the first time someone went down at me, I was I fully I consulted someone younger than me. I consulted as sophomore in high school. It's like, have you ever heard of this? Like what or do I need to call the police? And she's like, no, that's exxtremely common and actually is considered like maybe a good thing, and I was like, oh, okay, well I don't want it again, but glad that I don't need to call an ambulance for myself. I wish i'd called the cops. Um someone's faces on my vagina and I don't like it. Patrol car. There's a moment. There's a moment where Mohanna has to stroke Maui's frail old male ego because he's like, I'm not Mallie with all my hook and she's like, just grow up, yeah, and she yeah, he just well, I mean, I would argue he sort of does the same thing for her when she's feeling insecure. Uh, not to say he is like this terrific character, but I think that that is almost a mutual thing. Where there are times in the movie where Mohanna needs to be pumped up a little bit and made you stre confident, and the grandmother character serves as that boost a lot. But there is at least one instance where Maui is like, no, you know what, you're doing a good job, and you're ready and you're capable. It doesn't come to later in the movie. It takes him a long time. That didn't bother me too much that she encouraged him once that almost felt like I didn't bother me. I'm merely just pointing it out. That is a thing that needed to happen because he needed to return. It's very fragile egos that need. And he owed her more than he owed her, more of like a boost than she ever owed him because he is not great to her. Oh he again. I love Mauie. I'm so glad everything works out at the end, But if it wasn't the rock, he gets forgiven, he gets elated into being this demigod again, and forgiven because he helps Molanna restore the heart to Tafiti, which is which is great, But it is interesting that Taffiti forgives him and gives him his hook back, gives him a new hook. And I think that is incredibly female, not just forgiveness, but forgiveness on such an incredible scale because he he doesn't really deserve it, and even at the end, Molanna has to like hit him to like bow to her respect. And it's and we're supposed to have empathy for him because his parents tried to kill him or threw him into the ocean when he was a baby, and then he was saved by God's and it's like, if that isn't such a male narrative, I don't know what is the same thing happened to Shrek. It's like, because of this, because of this horrible thing that happened to you very early on, you immediately got incredible power. And then you abused it and abused it and abused it, and we're punished for it and are now punishing the world trying to get it back. That's a Shrek narrative. If ever, Shrek is isolated by his parents at a very young age, as is the Ogre tradition, strikes out on his own establishes his own swamp. To his credit, you know, he comes from nothing. He's guys own swamp. Now he's a small business owner. He's a small business owner. He's guys own swamp. He build a life for himself. But he's kind of mean, he's kind of resentful towards the world, and he's a bully to all the other fairytale creatures. And then you know, and then there is the movie takes place. Yeah, kind of Shrek narrative. Yeah, Shrek another beefcake, but it's I mean, it's a relatable narrative both for men and women ogre people oger Americans as we call them. Right. Bottom line is that all of her actions and her choices drive the narrative throughout the entire movie. Like everything she's doing it has a consequence, it has a bearing on the story. She is the driver of the vehicle that is the plot, and like you mentioned before, she's the one who determines the outcome of the story. Like she's the one who more stores at heart and like more often than not, it's like a man who's throwing a wrench into things rather than swooping in as a savior like Maui. For the most part, he he does play a role, and he does help, and there's teamwork, but more often than not, I feel like he presents the problem. Yeah, he's They're often to create obstacles for her. One of the reasons why I cried so hard when I when I saw Frozen for the first time and then again when I saw this, was just thinking about a generation of children of young women who get to see this movie. Yes, I had the same thought, and it's beautiful and it's beautiful for them to see Moanna as a hero. But also to see Maui how to interact with Maui's because we all you were going to come up against Maui's for your entire life, and if the lesson of this movie is that you have to grab them by the ear and tell them what you want and make them do it. And it's uh in this world that has to be done. Yeah, it's great how defiant she is toward him and like and toward her father. Her father kept being like, don't go off beyond the re if it's too dangerous, and time and time again, she just and it got to the point where it was it became the inciting incident where she then ventures off into the great unknown. But again it's about the ocean with Heroin. It was cooking, but now let's let's raise the stakes. He's like no, and she's like, I am naturally inclined to enjoy this beautiful natural element that is blind. Anyway, why haven't any princess has been addicted to drugs? Where's that movie? I'll direct it. I My my goal in my life is to make a movie about conjoined twin royalty MM and then they try to get separated and like one dies and any inciting incident is that she got to go and there's a whole I have an outline. I'll send it to you. Okay, I'll give you. I'll give you a note thank you. Hey. Here's the thing I thought this isn't just a dumb fun thought I had is on the coconut ships, there's this big drum and they're all attached to ropes and they like come down on the drum and beat the drum. And I reminded me of mad Max fury Road there ago the steam punk drum guy. Another fun thing in the outline of this this Conjoined Twin Princess movie that I've outlined, the Surviving Conjoined Twin is a woman in stem so good, Oh my gosh. So it really is the most empowering movie of all time. And she's also a lesbian because she has to dedicate her life. Also can fly a plane and she's pretty amazing. That's great. Definitely, it might be extremely bad cool. Does anyone have any like final thoughts about the movie. I just love it. It's amazing. It's an amazing movie. I was worried you might not like it, Jamie could really because you just saw it earlier. Today and uh so, Yeah, I don't know. I had hyped it so much that I was afraid that it wouldn't live up to the hype that I had created. Yeah, I mean I knew you loved it since you saw it in theaters, but no, I mean, it's like it's so good on every level, Like we don't even need to talk about whether it passes the Battel test. It absolutely does. In the first like ten minutes, I was talking to a comic who um had seen it and taken his son see it, and it had been too worked up and they did not like it. Um. And the thing is, I didn't care. It was like, it's not for them exactly, It's not for you, And I don't care. I want little boys to love this movie, but it's not made for them. See, I think it is important for them to at least see it and understand them and like at least take away something from it because it might put a damper on toxic masculinity. That is part of why the patriarchy is still a thing. So I think the more you know, little boys can become enlightened to I mean, I got something from Toy Story, but that movie wasn't made for me? Um right, I mean, and and we as little kids were forced to see all fucking manner of male heroes journeys or like this beautiful French woman's fucking a dog in a suit. Like we were presented with very few this beauty and the beast. There's like but there's you know, it's I would love for little boys to be forced to watch Moanna, but there's so many other options for them where they can be like, Oh, I'm really I'm great, and I hope that that goes away. It's hard. I mean it's hard because I don't know how Moana was marketed, but so often, like these really good, empowering female driven movies are sort of Barbie marketed to the point where it's like, oh, if you were you know, the everyday parent, you wouldn't think, oh, I should bring my little boy to this movie, you know. And I don't know what the solution to that is. I mean, you can unbarbify it, but I don't know how much inherent press like prejudice goes into I think I think having I think Maui's character was kind of big in every marketing piece. I think they were selling the rock pretty hard on it. I mean if when they've got the rock, I do kind of want to talk about the scenes that passed the backdel test though, um just for one consistency of our podcast and too because they're great. First one comes when ma Wana and her mom are talking about Mowanna's desire to just be out on the ocean and to venture off, and her dad is mentioned, so but it's not the context of the conversation is not really about him. It's more about just her desire, her longing to be on the ocean and in the ocean. Similar conversation happens a little later on between mo Wanna and her grandmother, where Mama is talking about putting the stone on the top of the mountain, which is like symbolic of her accepting her role is the leader in the chief of the community and she's questioning like who she's meant to be, and again her dad is mentioned, but again that's not really what the conversation is about. It's more about like her destiny and her desires. And then another conversation between her and her grandma happens. Oh. I think it's just like after she discovers that her ancestors or voyagers, and her grandmother shows her at that, right, Yeah, her grandmother's like bang on the drum and her questions will be answered. And then after that, her grandma's like on her deathbed and that's when she's like, you have to go find Maui and tell him to restore the heart. Also, they they do a rare displacement of the horny grandma trope. This grandma doesn't get horny? Does she just horny for sea creatures? That's right, that's God damn it. Because the other grandma character that I can think of, besides Grandmother Willow, who can't get horny, she has a tree, uh, is the grandmother in Mulan, who is very horny, also very helpful, helpful and horny. Well, it's I don't think it's actually fair to say that she's horny for these stingrays. She wants to be one and she admires them and doesn't mean she wants to fun. She's empowered by this stinger. Okay, I really want to get this grandma every benefit of the doubt because I really love her, and all the other grandma's besides the tree are horny. Um, Hey, should we write the movie. Let's do it. So we read each movie on a scale of zero to five nipples, and the way you describe the nipples, if we so choose, um, I'll go first is five great, yeah, which I think might be what I give this movie might nipple movie. The only thing that would make hesitated about it is the fact that the filmmakers, the directors, and writers were white dudes. But that doesn't really seem to have a bearing on the story the way we might think. So if you're just isolating the narrative itself and not thinking about the filmmaking aspect of it, it does such a terrific job representing women in a way that Disney movies, uh, in movies that young girls are seeing I haven't really done before. The relationships between the women characters are so wonderful and strong and refreshing to see. Mowanna just has so much agency, and she's so active in all of her decisions, and she's just a great, dynamic, multidimensional, very lovable character. And I ever so much. Five nipples describe them? Well, I'm not okay five of them at night? So I know that crabs don't have nipples, but five nipples belonged to Jermaine, Like it's my aust Brand Kitling Britain. Bringemine Britt. I give this movie five nipples as well. I would be interested if anyone's listening, um in how if anyone is familiar or integrated into Pacific Islander culture, Um, how you felt the movie represented that, because I really don't have a context for that. In a layman sense, it seemed like it was pretty respectful of the culture. But again, if if you have more or outsiders, I did love to hear it. I was trying to read about like whether or not Molana was based on any um folklore or mythology or anything like that. And Maui and the different creation stories and stuff like that. It seems that they took like a combination of different like Polynesian and Pacific Islander things and sort of like molded it into one thing. And I think there was some criticism about that from those communities that like, oh, like why did you mesh them all together? Kind of thing. Disney has a resort in Hawaii. There was also a Maui costume that was released that was considered disrespectful and was pulled from the sheuse a real merch mix up regardless, my I give it five Moana baby nipples. Um, I would also give up five nipples. Well, Natalie, thank you so much for joining us. It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much. I think this might also be one of the first times that all three of us, Jamie and Caitlin and the guest love the movie that we're talking about genuinely. So thank you for bringing us such an exciting movie to talk about about. To blast the soundtrack in my car, Yeah, blast it and cry. I'm roughing for it. Yeah, I'm so excited. Where can people find you online? Um? I am on Twitter at Daly Baseman and um I'm on Instagram too, and I'm off Facebook for mental health and well done. Um My. My Twitter right now is mostly just retweeting angrily. But my Instagram my post pictures of things I cook wonderful, perfect. I've about you, Jamie, do you have anything you wanna mention? I'm Hamburger Phone on Twitter. You can watch my cartoon every week on Cafe is called Boston p DS and Bony Crimes Division. It's very funny. That's thank you. Kaitly watched me make one today. Yeah, yeah, it's fun. It was so much fun. That's all I've got. You can follow me at Caitlin Dronte and you can follow the podcast at bectel Cast. You can also listen to us on iTunes. You can also rate and review us there. We really appreciate it when you do that, or and Libson and Google Google too. Also. I don't know if I use the overcast app for my podcasting needs and it's amazing and you can get anything on there and then it's just a quick, a quick hop to iTunes to rate things. I love it. I love I used the pot this the standard podcasts iPhone app as well, and I get a little ping every Thursday morning when it's like, hey remember this thing, remember that thing you did, It's now available to the public. I love it. So keep listening. Thank you for listening. We appreciate you, we value you. You get five out of five nipples. Yes, you all do. Thanks and bye bye.