Pod Meets Twirl'd: Turret Talk with Ben Mandelker (Watch What Crappens)

Transcript

00:00:09 Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod meets Twirld, the podcast from two guys who had never seen an episode of Dancing with the Stars but took it on and walked away experts. So now we've turned to Traders, another show that I've never seen, while Will is convinced that he could win it. We are Wilfredell and Ryder Strong, two best friends. One's a TV expert, one's a TV skeptic, both dance scholars. Yep, this is Pod meets Tworld Trading places, and today we have a guest. Though we have the quickly become undeniable thought leaders and experts on this season of Traders and the game itself, we are still somewhat in the dark when it comes to the Bravo universe. Whether you're a real housewife, a Shaw of Sunset, a vander Pump ruler I don't know what any of this means, or currently living below deck. I know that why no below deck is the one that takes place in a boat. You are prime to become a Trader, it seems. So we decided to call in an expert, someone who knows everything about this very specific sect of reality TV, to help us decipher what we should know about these specific contestants, whether they're still in the game or have already been murdered or banished. So welcome to Pod Meets Twirl. The co host of the Watch What Crappens podcast, Ben man Deelker. 00:01:30 Speaker 2: Hi there, Hello, how's it going good? 00:01:33 Speaker 1: How are you doing? Thank you so much for joining us. 00:01:36 Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, thank you for inviting me on. I'm so excited to have like another excuse to talk about the Traders. 00:01:42 Speaker 1: And everything else on Bravo because we were lost. Yes, that's uh. We're hoping that you're ready to explain a lot because we need this. 00:01:50 Speaker 2: I can help, That's what I'm here for. 00:01:53 Speaker 1: All right. Well, let's before we get into all of our million and one questions about the people that appeared on Traders and what hou's why to mean and all this stuff, let's start with your origin story. So how did you become this Bravo expert. 00:02:08 Speaker 2: It's a crazy thing. 00:02:09 Speaker 3: I moved to Los Angeles back in two thousand and one to be a writer and I wanted to write for TV and do all that stuff, and I wound up on this like assistant track. And when I was when I was being an assistant my roommate at the time, he wants to start up a blog. 00:02:25 Speaker 2: It was like two thousand and four. 00:02:29 Speaker 1: When they were still blogs. 00:02:31 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like, what's that? What's a blog? 00:02:33 Speaker 1: I read about it on MySpace. 00:02:35 Speaker 2: Yeah, it literally was like that. 00:02:37 Speaker 3: And so we started this blog about TV and it was called TV Gasm and we'd write these recaps. It was like a very exciting time and like the blog a spear was like blowing up and everything, and so I started to like make a name for myself in the digital space. And then long story short, the blog actually blew up. We wound up selling the blog, and we wound up bringing on writers, which is creat it's crazy. 00:03:02 Speaker 1: Blog success story stories made money on this. 00:03:07 Speaker 2: It's it's legitimately crazy. 00:03:09 Speaker 1: That's awesome. 00:03:10 Speaker 3: So we sold it to be a Murray who does the real world and everything, which was also bizarre. And so then one of the mandates once we sold it was that we had to bring on more writers, and so we had kind of like an open call who wants to write for this for TV Gasm And so Ronnie Karm, who end up being my co host, ultimately had watched Crappens. He wound up signing up to be a writer, and that's how I got to know him. And then I left the blog and then I was doing my own thing. I was doing the Hollywood thing. Had like a screenplay that was going to be like the screenplay, and then it was not the screenplay. And then I was going to hire for like this thing for MGM. I was like, oh my god, this is gonna be amazing, and that it was canceled and I was like, you know, the peaks and troughs of Hollywood. And during that time, I was hired to host a web show about the Real Housewives because I started to blog again on the side, and because I had this, I already had kind of like a name for myself digitally. I gotta hir do this web show about the Housewives, and I needed to bring on co hosts. So I brought on Ronnie and other people and we had a lot of fun talking about the Housewives. And then that platform just when it like it shuddered, but we're like, like, this is really fun. 00:04:18 Speaker 2: We should just keep on doing this. So we just started podcasting. 00:04:21 Speaker 3: And at that time, Ronnie was blogging to and we're like, let's start a podcast to promote our blog. We were like, this is this is the most important thing, like the blog. We really need to like draw more attention to the blog. So let's take a podcast on the side. 00:04:34 Speaker 2: And then pod. We just did it. 00:04:37 Speaker 3: And that was fourteen years ago, and now the you know, the blogs are long gone. 00:04:41 Speaker 1: Right the podcast became. 00:04:43 Speaker 4: So you were podcasting fourteen years ago. 00:04:45 Speaker 5: This was like the first time, Ryder, You're the first person I know whoever said the word podcast. So there was like, it's not like today where everything's everybody has a podcast. I mean, you must have been a very rarefied air to have a podcast back in the day. 00:04:58 Speaker 3: Well, you know, anyone could have a podc back, I mean everyone can still have a podcast, right, But like back then, it was just like you know, Apple was very much about like, hey, you've got you've got garage band on your computer, so you've got voice memos, do a podcast, so you just would. There were all these like really crappy podcasts out there. I don't know, am I allowed to curse on your new podcasts? No, So let me just say it, guys podcasts out there, Yeah no, But like we all sounded crazy with bad microphones. But the vibe back then was like, Oh, make a podcast, it's fun. And it really wasn't until Cereal came along that like the podcast industry started to become like a thing, and we just were lucky. We just were there ahead of time. So, I mean it's hard these days. 00:05:42 Speaker 1: And you were always talking about Bravo programming. Was that like the sort of the mission? 00:05:49 Speaker 3: Yeah, that was so Originally when we when we did the web show, it was called Housewives Hodown and it was just only Real Housewives. 00:05:54 Speaker 1: But like that was fourteen years so Housewives has been around for fourteen years. 00:05:58 Speaker 3: Oh, it's it's been around for twenty years. Actually, it's coming up in as twentieth anniversary like this year. 00:06:04 Speaker 5: And was it as popular twenty years ago as it is kind of in the zeitgeist today or No, No. 00:06:09 Speaker 2: It definitely was not. 00:06:10 Speaker 3: When it first came around, I was actually still at TV Gasm and I was like, oh my god, I can't wait to watch the Real Housewives because at that time, Desperate Housewives were a thing, The oc was a thing, Laguna Beach was airing, so there was like a lot of attention to Orange County and suburbia at the same time. I was like, oh, this will be perfect. And if you go back and watch those first one or two seasons of Real Housewives, it's like a whole different beasts. It was very much docudrama. You know, we're just going to follow around wealthy women and you just get to see what their life was like. And then it got sort of soapier and soapier as as it grew, probably starting season three the arrival of Tamra Judge, who was on season two of The Traders. Yeah, and then it just started moving that direction. And now it's a phenomenon that's like just so big now. But back then it was a little it was slow. It was kind of weren't back then. 00:07:02 Speaker 1: But it's funny because I'm more interested in the docu drama. That's just my taste. 00:07:08 Speaker 3: Like it's actually, it's actually great that we had those first few seasons because I went back and I watched the premiere of Real Housewives of Orange County, which is the original. I watched that about a year ago, and so it was I think we'll least two thousand and six, but maybe it's probably shot two thousand and five, maybe even two thousand and four, quite frankly, because you know, the timelines and these things, and it really is a time capsule of like Bush era, like a second Bush era two thousand and four, like Iraq War, like that, all that vibe, everything happened, just the way people looked in dress and acted. It's kind of cool that it was such a docudrama because you just do step back into two thousand and five just to. 00:07:46 Speaker 1: Fly on the wall. 00:07:48 Speaker 5: Yeah, so was the It's so it's so interesting because I know so little about this. 00:07:53 Speaker 4: My wife watches. 00:07:54 Speaker 1: One of them. 00:07:56 Speaker 5: Okay, I did, because I know that there's there's nineteen different versions and everybody's got kind of their favorite cast or oh I watched this one. I watched New York, but I don't watch OC Or I watched Beverly Hills, but I don't watch Atlanta. Like there's always something like that. But there was some table. 00:08:12 Speaker 1: Flipping incident that made something famous. 00:08:15 Speaker 3: M m yes, New Jersey, Real Housewives of New Jersey. There was that was probably twenty ten or so. There was a table flip. And you know, part of the fun about being a Real Housewives person is that there's so much lore. 00:08:28 Speaker 2: I mean, think about it. 00:08:29 Speaker 3: If you've got twenty years of these franchises that have piled up there are when you say the table flip, like we all know all the Real House eives people know. Oh yeah that was Season one New Jersey season finale Teresa. She was getting mad at Danielle because Danielle had lied about being a stripper at one time in New Live. It came out on a book and it was like it's kind of like twenty years of inside jokes built up, which is really like super cool if you think about it. 00:08:53 Speaker 5: Right, wait now, I'm sorry, now I'm in all the way. Did she lie about actually being a stripper or not being a stripper? 00:08:59 Speaker 3: Oh, oh my goodness, there's I'm so excited to tell you about this. 00:09:05 Speaker 1: Was she a stripper? 00:09:06 Speaker 3: This is just so And what's great is this is like entry level. This is like this like your gateway gateway SCAMD there. But like at like back in twenty ten, this was like everyone was like, oh can you believe it? So there's a woman named daniel Stab who was on season one and two of Real House. I was a New Jersey as a full time cast member, and she was like crazy about the gate You could always tell and she was you knew that there was some sort of darkness going on, and it turns out that her real name is Beverly. Oh, I forget what her last name is, but it's Beverly something another. And she was she was a stripper and I think she was like married to someone some it's some sort of criminal. 00:09:49 Speaker 2: Association that the bet she got arrested. 00:09:52 Speaker 1: It was Jersey was probably mafia, right. 00:09:54 Speaker 3: Yeah, I forget the details now because it's the details don't really matter. You just have to know that she's just a drops the named Beverly, which honestly enough, that's like enough, Like it's like, oh, you missed me named Beverly? 00:10:07 Speaker 2: How dare how dare you? But so she was named Beverly and so this has written about. 00:10:12 Speaker 3: There was a book called like like, oh, the book has got a in Bravo Laura. 00:10:19 Speaker 2: It's a famous book and I've totally forgotten about it. 00:10:21 Speaker 3: It's like a name, it was like no other name or something like that, but it's it's a book that detailed whatever this scandal was that she got arrested. It's about this mafia thing, but she was mentioned in it. And one of the real housewives found the book and then it was like guys, guess what. Danielle used to be a stripper and she was and she used to be named Beverly and it became like a scandal. 00:10:44 Speaker 5: Wait, it was like her husband or her boyfriend right got into some kind of he was something like a confidence scheme or something. 00:10:51 Speaker 1: Like that, and she was involved in it. Oh my god, how do I know this? 00:10:55 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I'm like trying to like look it up, like on the fly. 00:10:58 Speaker 1: Cop without a badge being told cop without a badge. 00:11:01 Speaker 3: Hop without a badge, Thank you so much. That's what it was. And at this time, it was like, you know, we were pretty early on in Housewives. Lord, there hadn't been too much scandal like this yet, so it was like there's someone who had a whole other bat, like a whole game. They used to be a stripper and this was horrifying and the women got really mad about it, and it resulted in Teresa Judaice flipping a table and screaming at her and uh. The irony, of course, is that Teresa herself went to jail a few seasons later for being part of a proud scheme. 00:11:36 Speaker 4: So, oh, is she the one who tried to crash the White House? Party. 00:11:40 Speaker 2: No, that is thank you for bringing that up. It's like so many fun little people. 00:11:45 Speaker 5: Will you know all of these things without no news that made the news that the housewife and her husband who tried to. 00:11:51 Speaker 1: It's like the Rumsfield thing of like known unknowns you have like known unknowns. I have no known like all my I have unknown unknowns that have about this. 00:12:01 Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, this did make national news for her name is Michael Salahi Salahi. 00:12:06 Speaker 2: That was it? 00:12:07 Speaker 3: Okay, So basically this is my theory. So it was the Real Housewives of DC, which had one season, and McHale and her husband Perik did make national news because they did crash the White House like a party, like twenty twelve or so. And my theory is that Real Housewives of DC was greenlit because I feel like they were probably shooting footage like a sizzle reel, and then just so happens that one of the people they're following on the show gets into a national scandal for doing this, and they're like, oh, oh shit, we we got a green light this whatever footage we have, let's cobble this together. So you have this very kind of uneven season that a lot of people didn't like I personally loved it. 00:12:46 Speaker 2: I think it was a great season. 00:12:48 Speaker 3: And Michael's Lahie crashing the White House was actually a great episode, and it's like one of those great fun like trivia pieces like yes there was a real house, so if you crash the white House. 00:13:00 Speaker 4: Like I love Yeah, okay, I remember that. 00:13:02 Speaker 1: Oh okay, okay. I've liked a basic question like how do you get to be a housewife? Do you have to be worth a certain amount of money? Like does do you have to can you have a job or do you have to be only a housewife? Oh, you can't have a job. A lot of them aren't even married. 00:13:18 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a very loose term. It's a low term. 00:13:21 Speaker 4: It means a woman who's dramatic in drinks. 00:13:24 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's kind of like it's it's that's sort of generally the stereotype of it. I think the real housewife, Like even the first season you had Lori Wearing who is divorced, and so you have people who weren't even weren't even married anymore. Okay, but basically the Bravo wants opulenced for sure. Famously, what I've heard from every any producer who's worked with Bravo is that when they're casting any show, well most shows, because they sort of have their quote unquote poor shows, which usually follows like young people who are up and coming and waiters and bartenders. 00:13:58 Speaker 2: But for anyone there, that's the that's. 00:14:02 Speaker 1: The one where the dude just got into the huge scandal. 00:14:03 Speaker 5: Who was on Traders last year He cheated with somebody with somebody else and then they were okay. 00:14:07 Speaker 2: Scandaval then was the scandals? 00:14:10 Speaker 1: Yes, Tom Sandoval, Yes. 00:14:14 Speaker 3: The Bravo just has There's so many just different tiers of lower there in all these different areas. But I think about that, Oh yeah, so Bravo they famously they really vet their cast. Well, if someone's coming onto the show, they want to know that they're making a certain amount of money, or that they have a mansion or this or that. That's what I've heard from every producer. So I think to be on the show, you have to be interesting, you have to have money. I think those are like the two things you need. And ideally you have to have some true connection to cast members. And I think maybe back in the day that connection to cast members was a stronger element of but like nowadays, we do definitely get shows where someone's like, this is my friend, we just met over the summer, which meant that they were like probably sent to dinner together before. 00:15:01 Speaker 1: Of course, of course, you know, this is something that we've been debating. Do these people have talent? Is there a talent? 00:15:22 Speaker 2: I think there actually is talent. 00:15:26 Speaker 1: Is it just charisma or talent? 00:15:29 Speaker 3: I think the talent is in This is a hard one to sort of pinpoint. I think there's a talent in being able to kind of do weird reality TV improv if that makes sense, like to understand when. 00:15:49 Speaker 2: To share, when not to share, to interpret. 00:15:52 Speaker 3: Now a lot of that producers do drive that they say, go ask her a question about this, But like there are there are people who go on these shows that are flopped and it's like they may have charisma, but they still don't. They don't like land, they don't. They don't, they don't work because there is I think a talent in kind of appealing to the camera, in letting someone in a certain way, or or sort of like the really Good Housewives just sort of have the snack of getting into the mix. And so there is a talent. I just can't describe what it is like maximizing. 00:16:25 Speaker 5: Conflict, like because well no, I mean, but if you think about it, what it is is because our side of the industry is slowly dying the acting. These are the new actors because again, no reality show isn't real. I mean, none of these reality shows are actually real. So I guess it is kind of like a new style of acting. 00:16:43 Speaker 1: It's your get what you're saying is impromise, right, It's like it's like you're going in doing a version of yourself and you're kind of yes, anding a situation, right, and you just have to keep rolling with it. But it also seems to me like that situation only becomes fun to watch if there's conflict, if there's. 00:17:01 Speaker 3: Drama, largely yes, but you can find actually really compelling content. It's much harder. But there's like really compelling, non non conflict content that can come through. There are some these shows do actually have some very compelling personal scenes with each other, with with cast members. But the conflict is really the most fun part. Like that's that's honestly the best. I can't even act like highpood the like, no, this is like there's so much more. It's the conflict. The conflict is great, but here's where they're all there. You also, there's a talent in driving conflict without seeming while also feeling authentic. If you watch a crappy reality show, and I actually have a whole thing that Like Bravo reality shows, especially the Real Housewives, are like high quality reality TV, Like these are made very well and they don't condescend to the audience, Whereas you look at thing that might be like on I don't know E or some random network and it's just like Great American Country or something that's all blatantly scripted, and these are not actors and they sit there reading their lines and it's like, we know you're reading lines to us, Why are you doing this to us? And it's you feel like the fights are for fighting sake, whereas a really good reality star, you feel like the fight is coming from a real place that was like earned. And again, I don't know, I don't know if it's that talent. Is that having a. 00:18:35 Speaker 5: Transition If you had to guess, then just curiously, because obviously reality has boomed so much in the last twenty years or so, what's genesis? 00:18:45 Speaker 4: What was the first reality show? 00:18:49 Speaker 3: Well, I think scholars would say it was like I think it's called American Life in the seventies on PBS or American Family. There was a docudrama back then that famously was kind of like the first reality TV. 00:19:02 Speaker 2: And then you know, you could probably make various. 00:19:05 Speaker 3: Arguments about you know, documentaries. I mean you could say of the North, right, But I think that when we really come back into reality TV as we know it, it's the real world, like. 00:19:19 Speaker 2: Real world everything. 00:19:20 Speaker 3: That was going on with MTV in the nineties and then but like the reality TV as we know it as like reality TV is like Survivor. Survivor is like the next really big benchmark, and then that's just what the genre has been. And that was obviously like a competition. And in terms of like docu dramas is the real world, the real world and Survivor are like the big ones and real. 00:19:40 Speaker 5: World that first one that was like the Eric nice yeah real world right, yeah, Well, because I remember you talking about conflict in a villain, The first name that pops into my head is Puck. 00:19:51 Speaker 4: You remember Puck. 00:19:52 Speaker 2: From San Francisco. 00:19:53 Speaker 1: From San Francisco. 00:19:54 Speaker 2: Yeah, so Beauta Murray. 00:19:56 Speaker 3: They they produced Real World and famously, I forget who who was in what department? But I think that maybe Jonathan Murray came from the world to documentaries and Mary El's Bunham came from the world of soap, or maybe it was the other way around, but they kind of merged soap and documentary together, which really did kind of like lay the foundation for reality TV. And like obviously Real Housewives totally is in that camp, you know, And I think I like the other thing is like the talent. You could make an argument that the talent is being funny because the right, yeah, just to be funny. I have actually like a little theory that like our sitcoms are kind of in a rough place right now. 00:20:41 Speaker 4: They're gone. 00:20:42 Speaker 3: I know, they're kind of gone because you but you go and you watch like the Real Housewives, and they're like hilarious, like and you that's the way you really have to watch these shows is these are actually our comedies now, right and that they're doing things that are actually way funnier than if you turn on like Happiest Place on NBC. You know, no offense, if you guys are associated. 00:21:02 Speaker 1: With no no no, And in some ways they're actually it's a subtler form of comedy too. Because you have to be watching real behavior and like small little micro moments to know what's going on. 00:21:12 Speaker 3: And actually, so that's where I think a lot of credit goes the post department and the producers on the shows, because if you think about it, you're filming people going out to lunch, going shopping for weeks on end, and you have to be able to watch that footage and see that knowing look from someone and be like, oh, we need to put that reaction shot in because that is like highlighting the comedy and the scene. Like they actually have to draw out a lot of comedy and they do actually a really good job, right. 00:21:39 Speaker 1: Okay, So, as somebody who's never seen a single episode of Housewives, really, I mean I definitely have seen scenes or clips, but like, I'm curious how much of this is like aspirational, like oh, this is a lifestyle I wish I could live, And how much of it is like, oh, these people are awful. I'm so glad I don't have that lifestyle, do you know what I mean? 00:22:03 Speaker 2: Yeah? 00:22:03 Speaker 1: Like, what is the ratio? Like it does it alternate from scene to scene, from person to person or is there an overall overall feeling like are we supposed to be laughing at these people and feeling good about our less wealthy lives, or are we supposed to be like I can't wait to be up one of them. 00:22:17 Speaker 2: I think it's all of the above. 00:22:19 Speaker 1: Okay, honest, I was afraid you'd say that. 00:22:21 Speaker 3: I think when this show came out, the vibe was like, look at these wealthy women in Orange County who live in the gated community and they're spending thousands of dollars when they go shopping and they don't have a care in the world. 00:22:32 Speaker 2: Isn't isn't this wild? 00:22:34 Speaker 3: You know, so you're kind of like rubber necking and you're making you are making fun of them because you're it is aspirational, but you're also saying, you know, like wow, it must be great to have money. 00:22:44 Speaker 2: But like they're wretched people. You know, these are terrible people, and. 00:22:48 Speaker 1: I would be feeding the homeless. I would be doing something. Yeah, nobo. 00:22:52 Speaker 3: Out of touch with reality and they don't understand anything. And I think that's still the pulse that's through all of these shows. But what's fun is every now and then, like a poorer person, a quote unquote poorer person aka probably something is just like you know, middle class right, uh sort of like gets in and we all are like why are we why are we here in her three bedroom house? Like we don't want to see this? 00:23:16 Speaker 1: This is yeah no for real immediately people just want want to shut it off. 00:23:22 Speaker 2: Yeah, We're like what is this? 00:23:23 Speaker 3: You know, there's a woman right now who's been on Orange County for like several years and she's like just solidly a perfect like just lives in middle class life. But and we're all like, uh, every time it's way her scenes come on Gina, it's like, oh, here comes Gina again, and like that's part of her story is that she was married and then she got to bor so she moved into a tiny house and everything, and then she's got now she has like a nice she has a nice little nig mansion now and but like there's still her vibe is like very much not aspirational. And so when you say, are we looking at it for aspirational, Like I don't ever think I watched these shows like I want to be just like them, but clearly I have a reaction against like who is this person who's like you know what who came on on our TV? Right? 00:24:11 Speaker 5: It sounds like to me, and it's a world that we did not write and I did not know either in any way, shape or form. This sounds exactly like being a babyface or a heel in professional wrestling. 00:24:21 Speaker 2: I was just about to say that that's what it is. 00:24:24 Speaker 5: It's theatrical. Somebody's good, somebody's bad. You're seeing the fighting. 00:24:28 Speaker 1: It's human cockfighting. I mean, it's it's this. 00:24:30 Speaker 4: That's all it is, is professional wrestling. 00:24:33 Speaker 3: I often actually equate reality TV to professional wrestling, especially when The Hills was on. 00:24:40 Speaker 2: Did you guys ever watch The Hills? 00:24:41 Speaker 6: No? 00:24:42 Speaker 1: But I know it. It's like kind of a reality show, but it was a scripted reality show, right. 00:24:46 Speaker 3: It was definitely like a reality show, but like, yes, for sure. Like the thing that would always circle around it was is this scripted? Is this scripted? It feels like it's scripted, And to this day, that's something that likes every reality show, and most people, I think, people who just love genre or love these shows just say, you know, it's like professional wrestling, Yeah, scripted, but who cares? Give me a good story and I'm happy, right, And I think that's where they're very very similar in that way. 00:25:10 Speaker 4: God it's so strange. 00:25:11 Speaker 5: Well, I mean, I guess it is when you could when you think about reality with this this type of reality show, what it is is what we talk about all the time is the micro world. And so it's a world you normally would never see or have anything to do with that now you're thrown into. 00:25:24 Speaker 4: I mean, weird example. 00:25:25 Speaker 5: So years ago I played Dungeons and Dragons and they had those little mini figures and I didn't know how to paint one. So we did a show where people taught me how to paint one. Okay, that seems like nothing, but then you learn about this world and there's these Crystal Brush awards and oh you're talking about this guy. He's been painting for years, and all of a sudden you're like, oh my god, there's an entire world here that I knew nothing about. 00:25:45 Speaker 3: Oh my goodness. I have I mean speed of Dungeons and Dragons. I have like I'm in the board game hobby too, which is like adjacent. I have behind like behind this camera that you're like, You're just like, there are all these worlds. And I think that actually, I mean, if we can get really academic about it, I think that like right, I think the rise of the Internet. I'm gonna by the way, I'm gonna, I'm gonna per forward a theory that I had done no research on. 00:26:13 Speaker 1: Say that's modern day science. That's what you're talking about. 00:26:18 Speaker 3: But we all we are kind of like we have the rise of the Internet. We're all sort of like fractured in these different places with what we watch, what we listen to. We don't have we don't have like water coolers anymore. The water cooler moment doesn't really exist in the same way. We don't all even go to the office, and we're all just kind of siled off into our own interests. 00:26:36 Speaker 2: And so then. 00:26:39 Speaker 3: What we do is we find community. We're drawn to community in these interests. That's why we have like a rise of podcasts that are around Bravo, there's podcasts that are around minis. I know that, like you know, and painting them and everything. And by the way, matter respect to you for painting your minis. That's really fun to do. 00:26:58 Speaker 4: Thank you. 00:27:00 Speaker 2: I haven't I haven't really teetered into the world of minis. 00:27:03 Speaker 1: I'll teach you. It's it's easy. 00:27:04 Speaker 4: You teach me, Bravo, I'll teach you minis. 00:27:06 Speaker 3: I have several friends whore in the world of minis, but I haven't gone that far yet. But either way, we like so, you know, when I sit here and talk about the real house I have all this lore. To be in a community that like all knows the lore and can speak the same language is like really comforting totally. When we're all kind of watching different things, we're all just sort of isolated in our interests, you know. 00:27:27 Speaker 1: Right. 00:27:27 Speaker 5: Well, we've noticed that as well too, because you know, we do the conventions and we the targeted conventions are becoming more popular, you know, Nineties Con, Nostalgic Con, and I know that Bravo. 00:27:37 Speaker 1: Con, Christmas Convention is huge, but Bravocan is enormous. 00:27:41 Speaker 5: I mean, it's like this has become a big thing where you know, this is people getting together and it's your culture quote unquote of the people that are dressing like housewives and I hate this one, or I love this one, or how I mean so straight you might as well be dressed like Slytherin or or or you know, it's. 00:27:56 Speaker 3: It's right, well, I mean, it's it's so. I went to my Bravo Con this year in November in fact. Hilariously, I've never gone to a convention, like properly a convention where like I booked a hotel room. I've like sort of gone, I've like done like a few hours that maybe something here in La like at the E three or something, but I've never like done the thing where I book a room and have a path three day pass. And I went to Bravo com my first convention, and then four days later I went to my second convention, which was a board game convention. Yeah, and so I literally just like dove in, I did back to back conventions with which I don't know if I would recommend to anyone doing that. And also that pivot, the pivot from like the world of Bravo to board games. 00:28:36 Speaker 1: But now in the Bravo one where you recognized did people knows? Yes, I was gonna say you, it seems like you should be on a panel at that convention or something. 00:28:44 Speaker 3: We were, so we actually Ronnie and I got to be moderators for one of the pasts for one of those TV shows, which was great, which is super cool. It's a weird space. It's it's kind of the headshrip when there because all the like there's like a there's like a social ladder that happens at bravocan So all the real housewives, who in the world of celebrity are pretty dlists, at Bravocon they become a lists and then if you're a podcaster, you're not even on a list to begin with, but then the Bravocon you become like the C lister, so people recognize you, so you're not afforded necessarily the same access. 00:29:23 Speaker 2: I was like, Oh, this is what it's like, as like, I get it. 00:29:26 Speaker 3: I understand why the real housewives sometimes go crazy because you get people recognizing you everywhere, but you don't get any of the respect of someone who's also being recognized, but it's just on a different tier of celebrity. 00:29:37 Speaker 2: And I thought that was such a fascinating thing to experience. 00:29:40 Speaker 5: Okay, so very quickly then if you didn't just out the gate, you don't even think about it. 00:29:44 Speaker 4: Who's the most popular housewife. 00:29:46 Speaker 2: Of all time? Most popular of all time? 00:29:49 Speaker 3: I would probably say, in any leaks from Real Housewives of Atlanta, I think that she's probably the number one most popular. She was like she was on Real Housewives of Atlanta. She is uh like There's been no one ever like her. She's just super funny. Raised it like super quick. That's the talent, right there is to be quick and to be ready and when someone comes at you that you can like pull up a read if possible, if you can come back, if you can say, well what you has to be like a lawyer. The moment that someone brings up something, you have to be ready on the counter attack. She was great like that, and. 00:30:24 Speaker 4: She oh, I recognize her. 00:30:26 Speaker 3: She's been in a million memes. She is iconic. Towards the end of her run, she kind of I feel like the fame got to her head and she's sort of you know, in my mind, she kind of flamed out. But now that she's been an off Brava for many years, you definitely have come to appreciate. Like she's like the number one. I would say, she's like the number one most popular. There may have been a time where Bethany Frankel was number one, but she's like she's mister Gunnada. 00:30:52 Speaker 1: So who's most hated? 00:30:53 Speaker 3: Well, I think this week it's Jill's Aaron. I don't know if you saw this, did you guess? You guys hear about that so Jills Arron, formerly of the Real Housewives of New York. 00:31:03 Speaker 2: She was on the first four seasons of that show. 00:31:05 Speaker 3: She got fired in twenty fifteen or so, or twenty ten, I don't know, but she has been God, she's been wanting to come back to the Real Housewives for years and years and years. 00:31:17 Speaker 4: I have heard about this. 00:31:18 Speaker 1: I did hear about that. 00:31:19 Speaker 4: I just googled, I did hear about this. 00:31:20 Speaker 3: So a few years ago, Bravo overhauled the Real Houseves of New York and got rid of the old cast, much to the chagrin and of a lot of the fans, and so, like, literally two weeks ago, two and a half weeks ago, he announced that they were going to start a new reality show called The Golden Life. And I was gonna start like the original Real Houses of New York, people including Jills Arren, And like everyone's excited because it's like the original cast. The super Bowl comes around and Bad Bunny does his amazing halftime show, but not everyone is a fan, and Jill's Arron is one of them, and she goes onto Instagram and she's like, you know what, this was crazy? This was you know, I didn't even understand what was this saying? And where were the white people? I didn't see a single white person? Like the part that it's still like very political and Lady Gaga, what's going on in the face minds you Jills are now looks like a beach ball. But she's saying like, well, I can't even recognize Lady Gaga, And so he does this whole thing and everyone's just like Jill's Aaron. It becomes a thing because it's racist, which is like where are the white people? It's like I don't even understand, I don't understand language, just complaining, and she's saying, it's a shame, it's shameful, shameful, shameful, and everyone just got so mad at her and he fired her. So she before the show could even begin shooting, she got fired. 00:32:29 Speaker 2: Come back. 00:32:31 Speaker 1: Oh no, Okay. 00:32:32 Speaker 2: She's most hated at the moment. 00:32:33 Speaker 1: Okay, so what what season or what cities are their housewives in at currently? 00:32:39 Speaker 5: Oh wait, let me try to answer, Let me try to answer. Let me see if if I've learned anything from my wife. 00:32:44 Speaker 3: Okay, new York, yes, although New York is like New York is like yes, but there's like they're figuring out their cast. 00:32:53 Speaker 5: Yeah, but oh s yes, is there still Beverly Hills, Yes, Atlanta? 00:33:00 Speaker 2: Yes? 00:33:01 Speaker 1: Was there Potomac that's gone? 00:33:04 Speaker 3: No, Patonmac is happening there. They have an episode coming up this Sunday. 00:33:08 Speaker 4: Is there Salt Lake? 00:33:10 Speaker 2: Yes? 00:33:11 Speaker 1: Oh wow? 00:33:12 Speaker 4: Are there more? 00:33:12 Speaker 3: Or is that it? 00:33:13 Speaker 2: There's Miami? 00:33:15 Speaker 5: Oh? 00:33:15 Speaker 2: Okay? 00:33:16 Speaker 3: And starting I think next month we have Rhode Island. 00:33:21 Speaker 1: A new one has their own like sort of personality. 00:33:27 Speaker 2: Did you say in New Jersey? 00:33:28 Speaker 5: I didn't in New Jersey? Okay, my god, I missed a bunch. I missed a bunch. 00:33:32 Speaker 2: It's like Jersey, like, we don't know what's going on in New Jersey. 00:33:34 Speaker 3: It's like having a moment that they're they're they're figuring things out. 00:33:37 Speaker 5: You know, you're not going to You're not going to be Jersey Shore for just a Jersey show, by the way. 00:33:43 Speaker 1: And so each one of these has a distinct personality or distinct culture, right, Like what is the like the reputation of like is OC is the original one? 00:33:52 Speaker 2: Right? Yeah? 00:33:53 Speaker 1: So what could you describe its personality? 00:33:56 Speaker 2: In a nutshell? So was the original one? 00:33:58 Speaker 3: So I think it was just purely calising off of Z see things at the time. At the time, I think it was like largely note for being blonde women from Orange County who were rich, you know. I think it was maybe even trying to push kind of like what the Californian stereotype was. And in fact, I think for the first the first several iterations of the show, they were trading on stereotypes, regional stereotypes. So you go to New Jersey and it's like, oh, look, it's really Italian Americans. You go to New York and it actually New York wasn't really like like there's only I think one Jill's Aaron, I think was like our primarily primary I think she was like our only Jewish cast member. But the vibe was very much like that, like, yeah, that like New York, I'm Jewish by the wayeotype. 00:34:44 Speaker 1: Yeah, he just canceled you. He just canceled. 00:34:46 Speaker 2: Like the vibe was my family. 00:34:50 Speaker 3: But like fast talking, it's not fast talking like the New York stereotype. We have Atlanta where we're seeing an African American cast and so we're sort of like Bravo's trading in on on say and it's actually like but that's also what Jersey Shore did you just mentioned it. But one of the reasons why Jersey Shore was such a huge hit was at that time there were viral videos going around that was. 00:35:11 Speaker 2: Like, look look at Jersey Shore. 00:35:13 Speaker 3: Look at all these kids on spring break and they had the crazy hair and the tans and everything. And so MTV was like, we want to go into a community that we're just sort of seeing from the outside, and like, isn't this crazy? And I think that's kind of what these shows were all doing. But I think it sort of moved I started to move away from that, just like, let's find an enclave, enclave of wealthy women. Salt Lake City sort of took us into Mormonism, like, look at these Mormons. 00:35:36 Speaker 1: But then they did the real the real lives of Mormon wives. 00:35:39 Speaker 3: Right, that's the yeah, the secret lives. Yeah, so yeah, Salt Lake City. Actually they just like one or two who were like really about Mormonism. But it really wasn't like that we're gonna peel off, We're not gonna lie. It was not a Mormon expose by no means. And so later seasons like Potomac and Dallas, which is Dallas is gone now, but those were just more like here's we're going to a city and here some wealthy some people. 00:36:01 Speaker 1: Right, Okay, well we've been forty minutes. That's just Real Housewives. I mean I haven't even gotten the Traders yet. So let's let's let's dive into Traders and specifically this season. Uh okay, So Candace and Lisa our housewives and they were both made traders right off the bat. 00:36:34 Speaker 2: Yes, what what did. 00:36:35 Speaker 1: This mean for someone like you who knew more about them or there? Had they been on a show together or no. 00:36:42 Speaker 3: Das was from Potomac, Lisa Rena was on Real house was of Beverly Hills. 00:36:46 Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I don't mean, I don't mean to correct you. 00:36:48 Speaker 3: It's Lisa Rena Lisa yeah, which is a phrase that Denise Richards came up with. 00:36:53 Speaker 2: I'd like to point out, Okay, has made up her own. 00:36:57 Speaker 3: So I was very excited because it's also it's been very exciting for me because I watched the show with almost almost everyone who I sit and watch it with every Thursday. They don't watch the Housewives, so they have no context of who even Candace is. It's hilarious because the Candace that you guys have seen has been very you know, like very composed, very measured, shady but measured. But the candas that I know she will go off on a bit. Okay, she will go off. Oh, yes, she goes off. She reads people to fulfilth like she but and then she will go off on someone. And then she's very quick when someone comes back out or just start crying and she says ooh, and like she's so dramatic. 00:37:41 Speaker 5: So was that a red flag for you then right away that her personality had changed so much on Traders that you're like, I instantly would have thought maybe she was a Trader because she's just not like she was on The Housewives. 00:37:52 Speaker 3: The Housewives act differently on the Traders, which is interesting. I think they think they know that their extra, so they they do rein it in a bit. And I read something an article last week that had a really interesting theory that on the Real Housewives, the cast members know that their personality has to propel the story forward, but on The Traders, the format of the show propels the story forwards. 00:38:15 Speaker 2: They don't have to be as extra. 00:38:17 Speaker 3: And also being extra on the show, they do know enough to that being extra is a liability. Yeah, totally, because like, honestly, a lot of the housewives have been way more restrained on The Traders than they are on their Real Housewives shows. 00:38:30 Speaker 1: So is that true of Lisa too? Then you felt that she was being more restrained. 00:38:34 Speaker 3: Yeah, well Lisa. When Lisa has had an interesting journey on The Housewives. She came in obviously already established as a persona from soaps melrose Place and various other reality shows, and when she came onto Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, it was kind of like a big get. It's like, whoa, they got, like a real celebrity to be on this show. And she sort of came on and the Lisa that you saw in the beginning of The Traders was what we saw in Beverly Hills, which is that she was sort of like your friendly neighbor, like, Hi, how's it going, huh, And she just would be very agreeable, but she shot stirred the pot, and by the end of her time on Real Housewive she sort of got caught up in the whole swirl of it and she kind of became a big villain. And so you sort of see the same thing happening on The Traders, right, like once. Once she was put in the hot seat, her personality changed. But I personally was excited to see her as a Trader because I know that she can stir the pot really well, and I was actually hoping that she would have done more of that, and she actually was. She fell into that trap of being too passive, right, and so then she got clocked by Colton of all people, which made me so mad. 00:39:42 Speaker 5: And she also though I have to say, as one of the few actual actors on the show, some of her acting wasn't particularly good on Traders, where it was like ye, that came off as kind of fake, which was strange. 00:39:55 Speaker 3: She had like a lot of headway, Like she she got a lot of you got a good head start on being able to craft her defense and start to shape the narrative. Yeah, and she's like, I'm going to get to work. I'm an actress. I could do this. And then she does nothing. 00:40:13 Speaker 2: Why anything? 00:40:15 Speaker 3: Why aren't she starting to plant seeds about Coulton And when Colton, when Colton sat down with you and said, I know you're a trader, but I want to take you to the end, like why did you not weaponize that against him? Why don't you say something like Colton just accused me of this. 00:40:29 Speaker 1: Oh good call, that's Unfordiately. 00:40:31 Speaker 3: He's wrong, but you guys should all know, like he's not here for us, he's only hef if I had been a trader, he would have made a deal with me and then would have sold out every single one here of you guys here. So whether or not he is a trader, I don't know. 00:40:45 Speaker 1: That's that is such a good move, well played. 00:40:51 Speaker 2: Yeah, why didn't she do that? 00:40:52 Speaker 5: Yeah? 00:40:53 Speaker 2: Why didn't she? And why don't she even say not? 00:40:55 Speaker 3: Only do I think that he might be a trader, I think he was trying to find the secret trader because they don't know. The faithful don't know who this trader is, right right, you know, for all they know, Donna Kelsey was was was a normy trader. 00:41:06 Speaker 1: Right, Okay. 00:41:08 Speaker 5: So the other question that you know, I want to ask because they at one point when they have the dinner scene, the big the big red wedding dinner. 00:41:18 Speaker 1: Scene, essentially a black banquet. 00:41:19 Speaker 2: A black banquet, a banquet and. 00:41:22 Speaker 5: They as jam jams being let out, he says, is it's Lisa, she kissed me, and housewives don't ever kiss you on the cheek. 00:41:29 Speaker 1: Is that a thing? Or was he just making that up? 00:41:31 Speaker 2: He was making that up. 00:41:33 Speaker 3: And what was shocking to me was that Lisa didn't immediately she goes, no, I didn't, right, but denial. 00:41:40 Speaker 2: Doesn't work on these shows. 00:41:41 Speaker 3: No, what you have to say is you know what this is because of Coulton, Because Colton just drew my name out of nowhere right, just got dirt on it the way he did with Tiffany, the way he did with Michael, and now he's decided it's me and he thinks he's some genius just because he, along with everyone else, sniffed out Donna Kelsey. 00:42:02 Speaker 2: He puts, he. 00:42:02 Speaker 3: Puts think on my name and now jam Jams throwing it out and it's a witch hunt and I'm not going to stand in for it and its offense. 00:42:07 Speaker 2: So she should have been like righteous or. 00:42:09 Speaker 1: Something and cannas. 00:42:10 Speaker 5: But Candace should have also jumped up and been like, but she kissed me on the cheek, like it would have been so easy to be like, no, she kissed me too, Like that's how that's how you you protect another traders just like just like, no, can't be that. 00:42:20 Speaker 4: She kissed me. 00:42:20 Speaker 2: It's risky though, Yeah, it was just so interesting. 00:42:24 Speaker 1: We didn't know if there I was like, are there rules to a housewife that we don't know? They don't they don't kiss? 00:42:30 Speaker 2: What the hell do we not know? 00:42:31 Speaker 3: They are in fact allowed to kiss on the cheek, although you saw the thing that Kristen Kish said recently on social media, which is that they went through HR training and they were told they're not allowed to kiss each other, So like there never would have been a kiss because of HR training. I mean, I don't know if that's I don't know if that logic really will work on everyone. But yeah, Rinna, she's I think she's just like not good on the fly. There was an episode of Real househse at Beverly Hills. She had talked about Kim Richards former child sar Kim Richards, who was a cast member. 00:43:03 Speaker 4: She had a drinking thing I remember, yes, yeah. 00:43:05 Speaker 3: And so Rena had talked about Kim's like drinking or something like that, or her drug use. And then they had a party and like Kyle Richards, Kim's sister goes up to Renna and it's like, did you talk about my sister? Even though it's blaintly on camera Renna just goes like this when she looks left goes, I don't know. She's like, I don't remember, Oh my god. 00:43:30 Speaker 2: So she sort of has a history of like just not being She doesn't come up with the cover story really quickly that. 00:43:37 Speaker 1: Kyle Richards, I know that she's been on forever, right. 00:43:39 Speaker 2: Since the first season. 00:43:40 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's what I thought, Okay, because the reason I know this writer is because they were child actors, Like they grew up, I mean acting from the time they were was Secret to Witch Mountain or something. I mean they they've been in things from the time they were kids. 00:43:52 Speaker 3: Kim was like the bigger child star, but they both were on I think Kyle was on. They both were in Halloween or Kyle was in Halloween and she still is an Halloween today. They now they trot her out for the new Halloweens because they know the Bravo fandom we'll talk about it, which is really smart and and Kim and yeah that's the Richards family has a whole other interesting you know, and they're like ants to Parasiltan and all that stuff. 00:44:16 Speaker 5: Yeah, but they were child actors and it was really sad because she's obviously got a serious problem. 00:44:20 Speaker 3: With Kim does Yeah, I mean actually Beverly sort of side talk sidetrack. Beverly Hills is interesting as a franchise because that's really become a place where former soap stars or actors, actresses or actresses I should say, have wound up. So you have Denise Richards, Garcel Bovet, Lisa Rinna, Eileen Davidson. Now Jennifer Chilly is a friend of and she's an Oscar Nomney. Jamielee Curtis has shown up on there. 00:44:47 Speaker 1: Do their husbands ever show up on the show? 00:44:49 Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, right, yeah, okay, yeah, big part, big part of it. 00:44:53 Speaker 1: So their husbands can't. I can't believe so many people agree to do this part. 00:44:58 Speaker 6: Well. 00:44:59 Speaker 3: I think at first it was much more taboo, but I think now it's not really a taboo. I think people because to gamble it. Yeah, it's a gamble. You go on and you could come out like beloved and the world opens up for you, or you go on and it's the worst thing you probably ever did for yourself. 00:45:20 Speaker 1: But at the same time, we are unfortunately living in an era of what used to be a joke is kind of true now where there really almost is no unless it's awful. I mean truly awful. There's really no such thing as bad publicity anymore. 00:45:32 Speaker 5: It's like you're people like it's like, well they're talking about me, so that's a good thing. 00:45:36 Speaker 4: And it's like, is it always. 00:45:37 Speaker 2: A good one? Well, it's like racism. That's like I think that's that's a bad one. 00:45:41 Speaker 1: Yeah, or some kind of sexual deviancy or something like that homophobia which happened we saw on Traders, you know, like once it was like, dude, walk this back and he didn't, like, I didn't get him off the show. 00:45:56 Speaker 3: Honestly, when that moment happened, it didn't strike me as a homophobic moment. And I say this as a gay man. Also, I'm gonna pull all my cards. I'm Jewish, I'm gay. 00:46:07 Speaker 2: It didn't. At that moment. 00:46:09 Speaker 3: It seemed like he was saying something like, you know what, you would be the best person to do this because you're a trader. Like to me, it sounded like game talk. I play a lot of social deduction games, you know. I played like Secret Hitler, and I played Was The Resistance Avalon and games like that. I don't know if you guys have ever played those Yeah, but you know a lot of times you make is you wind up making these very big, brash statements like that, like you were the liar. And I'm not taking away that Colton took it that way because there's intention versus impact, right, But to me, when Colton said, well, oh, you know, so you're saying that for like you know, like you know, twenty nine years in the closet was easy for me. 00:46:50 Speaker 2: I was like whoa. 00:46:52 Speaker 3: I was like, he just in my mind, the way I received that was like, whoa, he just pulled the gay card on Michael Rappaport. That's crazy, that's so interesting. 00:47:02 Speaker 1: I really thought that there was no other way to interpret the way Michael Rappaport said it other than because you were in the closet, you must have been lying, for you know, you're good at lying. 00:47:10 Speaker 5: I thought that until I read other things about Colton which I didn't know about, and then I was like, Oh, did Michael Rapport know that Colton had a really sketchy past because he's done some really shady ship. 00:47:19 Speaker 1: See, I don't know any of that. 00:47:21 Speaker 5: I didn't either until after we had done our thing and people were like, we can't call out Michael Rappaport's pass without calling out Colton's pass, and I was like, oh, I didn't know anything about that, so I didn't know if maybe it had something to do with that. 00:47:30 Speaker 4: I didn't know. 00:47:31 Speaker 2: Michael Rapport is garbage, Okay, like he's garbage. 00:47:35 Speaker 1: But he eats so delicately. Watching is just so delightful. 00:47:38 Speaker 2: The way he just shovels it in the plate, goes right in the mouth. I mean, like that was one of the most striking visuals. 00:47:45 Speaker 3: But like I it's a complicated situation because just because I say, like, oh, wow, I didn't think that's homophobic, that doesn't take away from Colton's reality's reality at the table. 00:47:56 Speaker 5: Or Kristen's or There's it's obviously a lot of a lot of people in the gay. 00:48:00 Speaker 4: Community there I was. 00:48:01 Speaker 1: I was. I could totally see Michael rapper work making that point, not really intending it to be homophobic. But once it's pointed out to him that it's been taken that way, like why he didn't immediately be like, oh my god, wow, that's a good point. I did not mean it that way. I totally understand your point of view now, and Ciity just doubled down on it, like you know what I meant, and. 00:48:19 Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, he was. It was he could he should have actually managed that moment. Just as a person he should have totally, but also as a game player, he should have because he should realize Oaklton's doing this. And I just got you know, Kilton really drove me nuts. I thought Coulton was so cocky. And the truth is this, Colton came really hard at Tiffany with little to his The cour zone of Colton's argument about Tiffany was that she told Michael Rappaport to get into the cage or at one challenge, and because she did that, it was like, oh, well, she's wearing the she's wearing the pants this relationship, so therefore she must be a trader. Like that was literally it right, and it was so obnoxious. And I guess where I was really disturbed was that, you know, he singles out Tiffany for being too comfort which really could read as a microaggression. 00:49:03 Speaker 2: Quite frankly. 00:49:04 Speaker 3: Is he saying that it's like a black woman and calling her out for being too bold, too strong? 00:49:08 Speaker 6: Huh? 00:49:08 Speaker 3: And like she could have she could have played a card on him, she could have said, oh, you're saying that to me as because I'm black or something like that, or she didn't and she knows she doesn't, and she knows she can't. And the reason why she doesn't is because everyone will be like, oh, you're playing a card, right, So she doesn't have the privilege of being able to pull a card like that, whereas Colton does. 00:49:24 Speaker 2: And that's something that just like really bothered me. 00:49:27 Speaker 1: Honest, that's super interesting. 00:49:28 Speaker 6: Wow. 00:49:29 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean going in without any history, Like you know, I don't watch football, I don't watch any of the reality so I have no idea who he was. I just found it. I appreciated that at least he was playing the game because so many other people are just not doing anything. But it turns out, because I've never seen traders until this season, that's actually the best strategy is to not be too aggressive. 00:49:48 Speaker 2: I know he was. Actually. I mean, so I don't watch The Bachelor. I'm not. 00:49:52 Speaker 3: That's like, I'm not, I don't do the whole Bachelor of bascination thing. I really don't know anything about Colton. I had heard that he'd done some sketchy things with his past. I of course knew that he was a bachelor, but then he came out the closet, but I knew nothing about him, and in the first episode I was sort of like, wow, he's hot. 00:50:08 Speaker 2: That was like the extent of it. 00:50:11 Speaker 3: But then it's just that he became so smug and that like really bothered me that he was very smug and that he he I felt like he took a lot of credit for Donna Kelcey when I felt like everyone was suspicious to Donna Kelcey, and I thought that was I was like, that's strange that he really seems to be acting like, oh, because I say that Donna Kelsey everything, I know, everything is gonna be totally right. So he comes in herd on Tiffany with a theory that holds no water, and he's wrong, and his takeaway is not, ooh, I should rethink this. His takeaway is, well, I'm just going to go at it one hundred percent again because that's what I do person to charge after I'm like, this is what's this is how we get into issues here. This is such a bad way to approach things, and so it's so unhelpful and and that he just does it again, and it's just like the fact that he's just like, yeah, whatever, I have it. I have an idea and I'm just gonna go for it, and I'm gonna go I'm just gonna go hard whatever destruction may come, because I've decided that I don't need to rethink what I do. I can just shoot shoot my gun off in any different direction and see what happens. 00:51:16 Speaker 2: And I just like it sort of like bothered me. 00:51:17 Speaker 3: And I know it's like it's looking way too deeply into the Traders and someone. But I think maybe at this time in American history, like moments like this like get me like really mad. You know. 00:51:28 Speaker 1: All right, well, let's do a little roll call of everyone from the Bravo versus in the season of Traders. Caroline from Dubai. 00:51:38 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, real house to Dubai. 00:51:40 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I didn't know there was a Housewives of Dubai. 00:51:44 Speaker 4: Well you didn't know there was a Housewives of New Jersey Rider. 00:51:48 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:51:49 Speaker 3: It was like a two season experiment and then it's done already bye to goodbye. 00:51:54 Speaker 1: Wow, that was quick. 00:51:55 Speaker 4: Okay, gotcha, I. 00:51:56 Speaker 2: Had a really good second season. 00:51:58 Speaker 1: Actually, Dorinda is a house wife from She's from New York City. 00:52:02 Speaker 2: Okay, ye like. 00:52:03 Speaker 5: To talk about her a little bit. Yeah, well, because she seems like I watched last season the Traders writer hasn't seen this, and she was like the first person kicked off and she was very sad about it, and everybody was very upset, and it was like, oh, poor Dirinda. 00:52:16 Speaker 1: And then she came on this year and you're kind of rooting for and then Ron, who seems like. 00:52:20 Speaker 5: The nicest guy in the world, gets voted off the show and he comes out and he says that she was not a particularly nice person to him. Yeah, so I'm curious, is that in keeping with Derinda? Is that something we we should we would know if we watched Housewives or does this seem like out of character for her? 00:52:38 Speaker 3: It's Direnda is a complicated person. The she she can see rad or really quickly, not something that you're really seeing on this season. We're seeing a very very muted Derinda. 00:52:55 Speaker 6: She she she has like she's very interesting because she's like very warm and her vibe is like very maternal and she when she says like I'm a natur will server, like she does want to serve you and help you in everything, but like she's like you cannot mess with her. 00:53:16 Speaker 2: You cannot. She is she is gonna be like, I don't like that. 00:53:20 Speaker 3: And then she'll she will come at you hard, especially if she has some martinis in her And the thing is that I guess they don't. They don't drink in the castle, and if she were drinking, you would be really seeing the true Dirinda. So it's weird though with the Wron situation, because he said that she was like I think he sort of suggested that she wasn't even that she was maybe even problematic, which is because she actually seems like that's one area that she seems to be pretty good with. So some people view her as like a meana alcoholic. I'm not gonna lie that is like, people who don't like Derinda will be like, oh, she's a mean alcoholic, She's like, get her off my TV. But for those of us who love her, we see her as a complicated person who does not stand for any bullshit. And so I don't know. But the thing is, unfortunately, she sometimes will sense a she will sometimes feel aggressed when maybe there was no aggression there. So I don't know what happened, but it's hard. I like, I'm like, not mentally ready to. 00:54:23 Speaker 4: Gotcha. 00:54:25 Speaker 2: I'm not there, I'm not. 00:54:25 Speaker 1: Going to do it all right, Then we had Porsche from she was an Atlanta housewife, right. 00:54:31 Speaker 3: Porscha is such a great, hilarious, over this top personality and it was so sad to lose her first. 00:54:37 Speaker 2: That was a real that was a loss for this season big. 00:54:40 Speaker 1: She did not play particularly well and it wasn't her fault. 00:54:43 Speaker 5: She just kept saying like when we killed that guy and stop. 00:54:53 Speaker 3: Yeah that was last year when Derinda was voted off first, like everyone, all the broad people were furious because it's like she didn't even get to go to a round table. We want to see Direnda. We wanted to see someone accuses to renda something and for her to come back by now you listen to me, right now, she's just like. 00:55:10 Speaker 2: We're all like waiting, like yeah, durand Don's gonna go yell. It's people. 00:55:13 Speaker 3: But this time when Porscha got put it off, we all love Porsche, but we're like, yeah, she kind of did that to herself. 00:55:18 Speaker 2: Like right, she messed up, she messed up. 00:55:20 Speaker 1: But in general, you're you're a fan of hers. If she had stuck around, it would have been Traders would have been. 00:55:25 Speaker 2: Better before she would she would have been great. 00:55:27 Speaker 6: Well. 00:55:27 Speaker 3: Also, she and Candace have sort of like a weird history together, so there could have been some interesting friction on that end, but. 00:55:33 Speaker 2: Okay, yeah she was out. 00:55:35 Speaker 3: And by the way, another reasonhy I can't stand Coulton is because Ron basically became house Priah after he took out Porsche. But where Colton has also had misses left and right. 00:55:45 Speaker 1: And none of that. 00:55:45 Speaker 4: We we right, and I've talked about this. 00:55:47 Speaker 5: Ron came with actual receipts, whether or not they turned out to be true or not. 00:55:52 Speaker 1: He had actual facts. 00:55:53 Speaker 4: He was wrong, they all have been and right, and he was still there. But Ron they had to get rid of and I was like. 00:56:00 Speaker 3: Come on, yeah, that was like I loved when Ron confronted them and was like, oh, okay, well you know I missed on Porsche. But I'm I'm like a trader because you guys like Porsche, but like those guys like yeah, called everyone likes Cold Like I love that he called that out and that was such a good point and for a moment I thought it was Ronny saved himself. 00:56:18 Speaker 4: I wish he did. He was he was great. 00:56:34 Speaker 3: You know, it's an interesting thing with the traders because there's usually like a block of housewives and a block of CBS game playing game players survive for Big Brother, maybe the MTV Challenge, and then there's like random other scattered people, and it's like, it's always a bummer to me when the real housewives get voted off early, beat work or banished early, because I think game like this, I the the the game players are better at the strategy, right, but I think I'm in it more for the personality that the real housewives bring, you know, I think that's like more entertaining for me. 00:57:12 Speaker 2: So it's like, well, it's interesting. 00:57:13 Speaker 1: Because this is kind of the merging of your two worlds, right because the board game thing, like the secret Hitler side of this game is must also appeal to you a lot. But then but you you you wish the housewife side would win win out a little bit more. 00:57:27 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we like the big personalities because like, right now we've got like Mark Ballace. 00:57:33 Speaker 1: He claims, now here's the thing. 00:57:35 Speaker 5: He claims that he's talking all the time and they're cutting around him. 00:57:39 Speaker 3: No, no, no, I'm sorry. If you were talking, we would see him talking at some point at some point, you know. 00:57:48 Speaker 1: Or even if he is talking, it must be so boring that it's just gonna come just like, yeah, no one cares to see the personality. How do you think about. 00:57:58 Speaker 2: Playing the great he's doing. 00:58:02 Speaker 3: I don't like. I don't like how he turned on Renna and Candace. And I think that like I understood that he had to, you know, I understood why he had to do what he had to do, but he was he also went out of his way to do it as well, like he could have when it seemed like, okay, Renna's going down, like he could have been like, okay, Renna's I gotta vote Rinna, but like when she survived that first, but he went above and beyond to be like, oh anti Rinna. 00:58:31 Speaker 1: Well, because he knew she was gone. 00:58:32 Speaker 5: When's when somebody's already voted for you five times, you're not gonna save yourself. 00:58:35 Speaker 4: You're gone. 00:58:37 Speaker 5: So at that point, as a trader, he's got it. He's got to cut ties. And I figured Candace would understand that. But then Candace throws out his name, and I. 00:58:45 Speaker 1: Think it Candace should have just come to his side. At that point, she could see the writing on the wall. 00:58:50 Speaker 3: Yes, the thing is this though I don't know if Renna was she had she definitely was in the stench, but I don't think it was still necessarily that, like they had to turn on her. Like I think Rob could have, Like Rob could have entered something new into evidence. He could have been like, so and so is tripping me out, or he could have been more passive about it. But he actually was active in saying it being anti Rena, which is honestly like it's smart first game. I just didn't like it. I just felt like it. I didn't think it was necessary. When Candace Candace throwing that vote on Rob, I was like, Oh, this is gonna be the death of her because he's gonna cut and run, because that's what he did on Love Island. He does not like being the bad guy, by the way. 00:59:34 Speaker 2: And he never saw Love Islands. That's what happened on Love Island. 00:59:38 Speaker 3: And he did he win that, No, but he had the balls to He was like hot and heavy with this one girl, and then a new girl came in the villa, and then he decided he wanted to get to know that new girl. And then the original girl who he's with was like upset. And then Rob was like, you don't understand how hard it is for me to juggle to amazing women like you made himself the victim. 01:00:00 Speaker 1: It's kind of awesome. He was already preparing for traders. That's great. 01:00:05 Speaker 3: When he cuts people the moment that, like, the moment they don't like him, he's gonna cut them. So when when Candace did that, because remember he was like, how dare she? How dare she write my name down? It's like, dude, you just went above and beyond for Rena, right, like you have to like you have to like allow Candace to blow off some steam. 01:00:24 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a bad move on Candace's part, regardless. 01:00:27 Speaker 5: I'm curious, just a big overall question just because for my own edification, you're then expert at this stuff. What's your favorite reality show of all time? 01:00:36 Speaker 2: Of all time? 01:00:36 Speaker 5: Yeah? 01:00:37 Speaker 3: I really like Original Real Househouves of New York That honestly, it's like an amazing comedy. 01:00:41 Speaker 2: It's really really wonderful. 01:00:42 Speaker 3: I you know, Survivor is an amazing like as a whole, if you're not to look at specific seasons, the Survivor is really a brilliantly made reality TV show it's pretty exceptional just in the production of it. And I think Traders is great. I think Trade Traders would be up there. They need to tweak some things, they need to make those challenges more relevant to anything that's going on. I feel like earlier this season it was it was in a good place because you know the shields that that impacts things. But you know when they're just like earning money for like the communal pot, like we don't care, we don't care about that, and. 01:01:19 Speaker 4: It's weird amounts of money too. 01:01:20 Speaker 1: It's like you've earned thirteen three hundred dollars. 01:01:24 Speaker 3: And it doesn't reveal any truths about who may or may not be a trader, like if someone underperforms, it doesn't like add any evidence that could be used at the roundtable. And I kind of feel like everything in the show should contribute to that. So there should be some way to undermine the shields more. 01:01:41 Speaker 1: Oh that's smart too, Like you win one piece of evidence against somebody. Oh that's kind of a cool. 01:01:47 Speaker 2: I so and so was being slow. 01:01:49 Speaker 3: I think they didn't want us to get the shields, but instead, like everything that's happens in the challenge really doesn't get to be used in the roundtable, and I think that's that's rough. And to go back to you know, we're talking about the strategy and everything. A lot of my board game friends there's a big contingion of them that don't like The Traders because they find the strategy is so bad. They're like, oh, I can't watch that show. No one's using proper strategy, and it doesn't matter because even if you use proper strategy, they recruit a new trader you can't truly figure out. And so like the gamer, the gaming purest really struggle with The Traders. But I think I think it's a it's a it's great canvas too, or arena for really big personalities to try to like problem solve and figure out things and get reads on people. And that's like very fascinating to me. And so The Traders is definitely one of the best, and it's produced beautifully and wonderfully. 01:02:41 Speaker 1: Wow, that's actually really good to hear because I've been feeling that way. I've been kind of like, is there is there something wrong with me? Or does it seem like the strategy is like really hard, like it just doesn't I agree. I think it's it comes down to the missions. Those they just are kind of random exercises to get them out of the castle, and they don't have much barying on the game. It seems like it other than putting people in separate cars so they can gossip, you know, like it doesn't that yeah, But you know, I. 01:03:06 Speaker 3: Think that like reality TV producers, there's like some prevailing meta in the world of reality TV producing that, oh, we have to have a challenge midway through the episode or else the audience is going to get bored. And it's like the audience is most bored during the challenges. Every now and then there's like an interesting one that's funny. But I I feel like the whole shot show draws. 01:03:26 Speaker 2: To a halt. 01:03:27 Speaker 3: It comes to a halt as we watch them climb up a hill, And I would rather have twenty extra minutes of round table than I would just sitting them watching them lug things around. Like no one wants that. But I think that, like every reality TV producer or executive is like, oh no, the people need to see something exciting. They need to see they need to see some sort of event. It's like, we don't know, we don't we don't need that all have to have some put some faith in us that we're sophisticated viewers that are that are perfectly happy to watch humans interact and figure things out. 01:03:56 Speaker 5: Well, they don't do that any of the Ravo shows, Right, It's just it's people talking. It's it's and people they're not, hey, now we're going to run out and try to catch a squirrel. 01:04:03 Speaker 4: Like, it's none of that kind. 01:04:04 Speaker 3: Of right, Yeah, and we all agree, like the most compelling part of The Traders is the roundtable, when people are making accusations, defending, throwing things out, and that's all personality based. And the gamers are good because they can be strategic in those moments. But by and large, I think I think this is the reason why I like the housewives on the show more than the gamers, given that I do watch Survivor and Big Brother, is that at the roundtable, it's where personalities clash and it's like the ability to convince people with your words, and that's like a really big aspect of being especially a real housewife. You know, they have reunions and they they air everything out, and so we I want more of that and that's why sometimes like you'll get someone who's good on Survivor, but they're just dull at the roundtable. 01:04:52 Speaker 1: Right, all right, Well, thank you so much for joining us today. This has been Can you come back any other questions anytime? 01:05:01 Speaker 2: I love this. I love Are you guys? Are you guys East coast or West coast? 01:05:05 Speaker 1: West or West coast? 01:05:06 Speaker 2: Okay, well, let's let's do this. Let's let's hang out, let's do it all. 01:05:10 Speaker 4: Are you are you East coast or West Coast? 01:05:12 Speaker 2: No, I'm West Coast. 01:05:13 Speaker 1: Oh okay, good. 01:05:14 Speaker 3: Great. 01:05:14 Speaker 5: Because we also were trying to figure out we're trying to navigate the world of reality. Neither Rider and I really know it at all, and so we started with Dancing with the Stars because our best friend was on it and that, and now we're kind of delving into this world of which we're lost. 01:05:28 Speaker 3: You know, there's a lot of reality TV. I get on a little bit of a high horse with reality TV because I, as a podcaster of reality TV, is often face snobbery. 01:05:40 Speaker 2: Snobbery. 01:05:41 Speaker 3: It could come in the form of like certain certain accolades or whatever. But like a lot of times, you'll be shocked at how many times people say, oh, what do you do? 01:05:52 Speaker 2: And I say oh, I have a podcast what's it about? Real Housewives Bravo? 01:05:56 Speaker 3: And there'll be a good chunk of people they'll be like, oh my god, that's amazing. But you would be shocked at the number of people that say, oh, I don't know how you could watch that stuff. Could you imagine saying that to anyone? Like, look, I don't make these shows, and I make fun of them, but I'm also a fan, and like, there's a huge amount of snobbery. And I have I have a I have a friend who who is who wrote a Marvel movie. And I didn't realize this when I first met him, and I started going off on Marvel movies because I think Marvel movies are just like to me, they're just. 01:06:27 Speaker 1: Like direk, I'm with you. 01:06:29 Speaker 3: To me, look look look at me doing what I just got mad about. But like to me, they just don't speak to me. And I just feel like it's the same thing over and over again. And so I did this whole thing. I went like, oh my god, Marvel movies, well may of exist. I did the whole thing. And then then someone's like, well you know that Tom wrote a Marvel movie. 01:06:48 Speaker 2: It was. 01:06:50 Speaker 3: No, no, it wasn't, but like I had such shame and I had such embarrassment and it was kind of like, wow, Ben, can't believe you just said that about Marvel when you know that Tom wrote that. And yet no one feels any sort of way about like like oh, I'm gonna just like shit on the Real Housewives, Like I didn't watch that garbage just women talking, women fighting, right, and I'm like, well, I love it, Like well, I don't know how you could like it. 01:07:13 Speaker 2: Like no one has any no one has that moment. 01:07:15 Speaker 3: Like oops, sorry, because it's just assumed that this stuff is bottom of the barrel of garbage. 01:07:21 Speaker 4: I'd like to apologize because I'm guilty of that. 01:07:23 Speaker 5: I do that myself, and it's because again in my head, it's killing the TV that I love and instead of going, well, this is what the audience wants, and that's what TV is supposed to be, is entertaining the audience. 01:07:36 Speaker 4: And if this is what the audience wants, who. 01:07:38 Speaker 5: Am I to be like, well, this version's good and that version's bad. But it's just that I've grown up with one thing, and I think one thing is more artistic. 01:07:47 Speaker 1: Than the other thing. So I will instantly on the other thing, and that's really not fair. I also think there's a big cultural hangover from there for me, like and this is what I you know, will and I've talked about this a little bit, is like has changed so much, and I feel like in the like early aughts period, there was a really toxic reality culture. 01:08:07 Speaker 2: Yeah, there still is. 01:08:08 Speaker 1: I think there still is a segment, but in general, the idea of reality is I feel like it's it's earned a place in our culture that it can be positive, you know, like somebody like Survivor. I mean I remember reading the articles when Survivor first came out. People were saying, like, this is the end of you know, all time because look at they were sending people to an island, and like, so I didn't watch it, you know, I sort of rolled my eyes that Survivor existed until like twenty twelve I started watching it. And now I'm like, this show is brilliant. It is so incredibly constructed. He is an incredible host, and like it's in an amazing social experiment that it tells us a lot about you know. Now I kind of make my son watch it. He loves it. But you know, at eleven years old. I'm like, this is really good for you to see, like how people treat each other and how they whether they have respect, and you know, you understand that it's a game, but like, you know, this is this It does teach you something to human behavior that I find really educational. 01:09:03 Speaker 3: But also like Survivor has great storytelling and I think that's kind of what the audience wants, whether it's going to be scripted or reality. And I think what's hardly reality TV is that the snobbery that gets sort of launched out reality TV is that people just sort of think reality TV is nothing more than the worst that gets. 01:09:21 Speaker 2: Thrown out there. 01:09:22 Speaker 3: There's like terrible reality TV, like terrible, terrible, terrible reality TV. And people will people when you look at comedy or dramas, people will acknowledge that there's amazing preciege dramas and there's crappy dramas. 01:09:38 Speaker 2: Sure they will acknowledge that there's. 01:09:40 Speaker 3: Like a major comedies and then some garbage comedies out there. But when people look at reality TV, they're just like it's all just bad and it's like no, It's like this has been a genre that's been around for twenty six years now. And it is evolved and there are there are you know you there's sophisticated product that's being made. And actually like the people who are like to make the Real Housewives, to make the traders, to find the moments to choose, like what is the story that we're going to tell? Does require craft and it does ultimately come down to storytelling. And so like it's a bomber. You guys come from a unique position as actors. So for you guys have something invested in a way that that I really don't have, you know, and I'm just elite who profits. That's the best thing ever what's worked with you guys. But like, but like I think ultimately audiences just want good storytelling no matter what. And I think you know what sort of TV do are are you lamenting the loss of? Specifically? By the way, like what do you feel like. 01:10:46 Speaker 5: The American Family sitcom is the thing that I'm the most the most sad is gone. 01:10:50 Speaker 3: I think that the sitcoms, I have a whole I have a whole other theory about sitcoms, like the one that is also maybe not super well researched. But I was just thinking about it today, which is that I think the sitcoms of our youth in this seventies and eighties and going into the nineties, I feel like a lot of the writers on those sitcoms came from like tradition of the stage, and then as we came into the nineties and two thousands and beyond, the sitcom writers came from the tradition of just like seeing other sitcoms, and I think we I think we're you see like a difference in how these sitcoms are made, and like the jokes that they go for, Like how is it that the Golden Girls those jokes still land forty years later? 01:11:31 Speaker 2: Still land? I watched The Golden Girls all the time to this day. 01:11:35 Speaker 4: I watch mash every day every day. 01:11:37 Speaker 3: So yeah's and people and lots of people do. And it's like it feels like somewhere in the machine of Hollywood in terms of the talent that ex the talent that got into the executive side and the development side and what they're looking for and on the writer's side, it all kind of got away from what was working so well at one point, and so you know, they just trot start turning out garbage, and so of course audiences aren't going to be supporting these shows because like, why, Like, you have a show like The Real Housewives of New York and It's Prime that had such funny scenes and such funny moments, hilarious hilarious moments. Real Houses of Salt Lake City right now have clashes between people and comments and throwaway lines that are laugh out loud funny. And then you have just the canned laughter of a sitcom that's on, you know, right, you know NBC. It's like why, like it doesn't compete anymore. 01:12:39 Speaker 5: Well, here's the question that I have though, that I would ask, is when you're watching the Real Housewives these hilarious moments, are you laughing with these people or at them? Because in sitcom you were laughing with the characters. Not always, I mean you think mostly you think about all in the family though. I mean that was one of the thing, like sort of issues or like, is that a lot of people didn't think of Archie Bunker as a a character you were laughing at. 01:13:01 Speaker 1: They thought of him as a character you were laughing with, which divided the audience in a big way, you know, right, But that was the point, and that's how he was written. 01:13:08 Speaker 5: That's exactly that was the point of how he was written, and so there was to me, there's a difference of crafting a character that has that depth to where you're talking about, are we laughing with, laughing against? Is this a mirror of society or is it just these are women that you're throwing up there that you're laughing at because it's like, look, how ridiculous that person is. 01:13:28 Speaker 3: All of the above you are laughing at, you're also laughing with. And I'll give you a great example, something that like got a belly laugh out at me in the worst way, like it's going to hell for this. This happened last week, this happened two or two weeks ago. Real Houses a Beverly Hills. Let me try to set the scene. A lot of this is cringe comedy. Yeah, this is coming from the Larry of David World of conty. Right, So we're on the Real Houses of Beverly Hills. We're at a dinner party. We have Amanda Francis, who's a new cast member. We have Darik Kemsley who's in there for a while. Deurita is like a Dodo. We also have Kathy Hilton. You guys know wh Kathy Hilton is famous Paris Hilton, mother of Paris Hilton, extremely wealthy, like just out there person dinner party with many people, but those three are there, and Darite is mad at Amanda. But Amanda is also saying throughout the episode, she's saying that she's struggling, like she does. She really doesn't. Amanda, by the way, her whole thing is just just kind of like full of bullshit at all times. But she has something very serious going on in her life, which is that it's the like three year anniversary of the like the death of one of her twin children, Like she gave birth to twins and one of them did not survive the god and so that's something that she's carrying with her. So Durit tries to confront Amanda about something, and Amanda is like, you know, it's really hard for me to talk about this, right, I'm barely holding on because it's a three year death of Zion. And Kathy Hilton perks up and goes, oh, is that your dog and then just goes right to commercial and they're like, oh my god, it's so dark, but like they're like out on that. It was just like I'm like, I don't. It's a terrible thing. What happened to Amanda? 01:15:11 Speaker 5: Right? 01:15:11 Speaker 3: The fact that the comedy is that Kathy Hilton is barely paying attention to the stupid fight and wakes up and goes, oh is that your dog? 01:15:18 Speaker 2: It's my child? 01:15:20 Speaker 1: Oh oh my god. 01:15:22 Speaker 2: It was so cringey, but it was like you can't help but like go WHOA right? 01:15:28 Speaker 1: Amazing? 01:15:29 Speaker 5: All right, one last thing, just you they come Traders comes to you and says, we're giving you one of the slots on Traders to put whoever you want on the show. 01:15:41 Speaker 4: Who do you give that slot to? 01:15:43 Speaker 3: I am going to say, well, honestly, Ninny Leaks would okay, pretty amazing. One from from Atlanta, she would be I think should be excellent. Because but I'm again, I'm casting because I'm interested to see how her personality affairs in the castle. 01:15:59 Speaker 2: Sure, like how she I guess I'm always. 01:16:02 Speaker 3: Interested to see how people react at the roundtable, like when when they accused or when they are accused. That's the thing, Yeah, because I guess I'm never I'm never casting someone for like how crafty they'll be or how good, how strategic they'll be, because the game is stacked against everyone at all times, backed against the trader, sacked against the the faithful. So I'm just like, I just want to see interesting personalities clash. 01:16:25 Speaker 1: Yep, watch fireworks. Awesome. All right, Well we'll go back to bring you back on maybe when the season's over. What we'll do a round up and how it all, how the dust settled ultimately. But thank you so much, Ben, it's great talking to you. 01:16:41 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me on. I appreciate it so much. 01:16:44 Speaker 4: This has been great. 01:16:45 Speaker 5: Yeah all right, oh man, okay, oh just sorry, before you go, if Ryder and I have to watch one of the Housewives, where do we start? 01:16:52 Speaker 4: What season do we start with? And what series do we go to? 01:16:56 Speaker 3: Okay, well I'm going to say that right now, you should go to Real Housewives of Salt Lakes, the that's currently airing. For many years, I would have said Real House was in New York, but it's New York's in a weird place right now. So just so Real House is a Salt Lake city. They've done six seasons. Start with season one if you have to, if you must, if you must start later, I guess season two. So much has happened on Real House with Salt Lake City, someone got arrested for massive fraud scheme. There's a woman on there who's married to her grandfather. 01:17:28 Speaker 1: Wait what like her biological grandfather. 01:17:31 Speaker 3: She has a church and her grandmother was married to it's not her biological grandmother. 01:17:37 Speaker 2: Following, but. 01:17:39 Speaker 3: I'm telling you it's amazing, great, there's great I think pieces about it by Naomi Frye and The New Yorker if you want to like Also, if it's still the idea of watching these shows still feels kind of like an insult to your intelligence, I really recommend reading some of the coverage in the New Yorker because the New York Times is very snobby about this stuff. New York Times comes out with their best, you know, best TV shows of twenty twenty five, twenty twenty four, anything, and they're loath to include these shows. Not a single real housewife gets on there when everyone's watching it, like everyone is watching it when we do our live show. 01:18:15 Speaker 2: So for watching Crappens, we we. 01:18:17 Speaker 3: Tour and we go around and we get people of all sorts of fascinating backgrounds coming to our shows. Professors, we had a like someone came up to us to shoos a judge it's like really fascinating interesting people. Of course, you don't have to be a professor or judge to be interesting and fascinating. But the point is that like professions, people with backgrounds, So you don't normally associate with watching reality TV. Of course, whatever snobbery or whatever idea you have in your mind of what reality TV is. And so people are watching these shows, and so the New York Times won't write about it, but the New Yorker does. The New Yorker actually is like really good about saying, oh wow, like this is worth watching and here's some lessons I took from it. Cool nai fr She's great. 01:19:06 Speaker 1: Check it out Salt Lake City and Naomi Fry great. 01:19:11 Speaker 2: So help you find a way and mentally cool. 01:19:16 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Thanks Ben. 01:19:18 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. And it's great chatting. 01:19:21 Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like we could do fifteen episodes with him. Well yeah, we just did ninety minutes. We could have kept talking too. 01:19:27 Speaker 5: He's right though, because I'm such a snob when it comes to that stuff, because I feel like. 01:19:31 Speaker 1: Me too, just killing us. I do you know for me, like like exactly what I said to him. It's it goes back to that sort of really terrible era. I think, you know, when when it was there was a clearer line of it's just more cruelty. I feel like it was much more exploitative. Now. I feel like, if you're on a reality show, you know why you're there, you know what you signed up for. I feel like you didn't used to be that way. It used to feel a little mean, like these people were being hijacked. And I don't think anybody is participating in one of these housewives shows without knowing exactly what. 01:20:07 Speaker 2: Oh. 01:20:07 Speaker 5: I think I think it's like it, yeah, this I was going to say, this is a strange correlation, but I think it's like the conventions. Back in the day, doing conventions, it was like, oh my god, you're doing a comic book convention. 01:20:19 Speaker 4: That's ridiculous. Now actors are killing. 01:20:22 Speaker 1: To get into these conventions left and right, and I think it's kind of the same thing. 01:20:25 Speaker 4: I always thought. 01:20:26 Speaker 5: It was just to me, he's right where the sitcom went to kind of the lowest common denominator, which then to me, the logical next step was reality, right, And I don't think that's necessarily the case. That's how I see it, But I don't think that's necessarily right, and I think that's he's right. I think there's a snobbishness to it, but he's like any other thing else. With entertainment, you're trying to entertain the audience, and there's probably very good versions and very bad versions and everything in between. 01:20:48 Speaker 1: All Right, Well, that's it for this episode of Pod Meets Twirled. Join us next time when we actually continue our journey through season four of Traders, a show in which, as Shakespeare said in his Scottish play, fair is foul and foul is fair. 01:21:15 Speaker 3: Mhm

Pod Meets Twirl'd: Turret Talk with Ben Mandelker (Watch What Crappens)

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