269 | Adulthood Bias: The Barrier to Parents Understanding Children's Behavior

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi,

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I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get

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a master class in child-centered play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode,

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I am talking about a new concept,

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new construct for

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what we need to understand and what we need to help parents understand

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and actually I'm releasing the same topic on

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the parenting podcast in collaboration with this one.

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So

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maybe point parents to the parenting podcast and then this will just be for

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your knowledge as a play therapist.

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I've really

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for a long time wanted to be able to articulate

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what it is that creates difficulty in

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relating to children and understanding where they are

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and the why behind their behavior.

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So we talk about this all the time,

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right?

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We talk about

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kids not being rational,

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them not having the development of abstract reasoning until around 12.

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They are not cognitive,

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verbal.

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Intellectual beings.

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They feel

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and they experience

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and they're in their hearts with emotions driving everything that they do.

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We can conceive of that and I think we

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as CCPTs understand that more than the average adult.

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But I think that we have struggled to effectively communicate

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to others that are not CCPTs

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why child-centered play therapy matters so much,

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why it's so necessary,

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the integral components

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of CCPT

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and if you don't have those present in treatment.

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You're just spinning your wheels,

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and I think that that has always been the gap in the knowledge,

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if you will.

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We understand this concept,

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but we don't really know how to communicate it.

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So

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bring in Eric and Chatty Cathy,

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much to my dismay.

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For those of you that don't know what that,

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what I'm talking about.

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My coaching people do,

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the collective people do.

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Podcast people,

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I don't know if I've ever shared this before.

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So Eric is all on board with Chat GPT.

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He thinks that it's so useful and I'm,

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you know how anti-technology I am.

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So,

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you know,

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my,

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my

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authorship of device detox clearly has not made its way into my marriage,

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but that's OK.

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So he loves chat GPT and he'll

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put a concept in there and it'll write up a nice paragraph for him,

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whatever.

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So Eric and I and Chatty Cathy,

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I call her Chatty Cathy.

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I'm convinced it's a female.

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Eric doesn't like that either,

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but

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if it's a chatbot,

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it's chatty Cathy,

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so that's how I roll.

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Anyway,

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so Cathy and Eric came up with after prompting many,

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many conversations with the bot.

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He came up with this idea that it's adulthood bias

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that gets in the way.

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So I'm gonna give credit where credit is due.

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I did not coin this phrase.

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It's probably straight out of Cathy's

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computer brain,

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but

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I think adulthood bias gives us a phrase

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that allows us to better communicate what's going on.

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And here's where I'm going with this.

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We used to be kids,

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we used to be emotional beings.

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We don't remember what it was like

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to not be rational,

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logical,

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cognitive people.

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And therefore,

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because we've forgotten.

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We are now in our adulthood,

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no longer in our childhood,

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and it creates a bias.

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Because kids cannot

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conceive

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of our existence,

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we actually can conceive of theirs because we've been there before.

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See,

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there's the irony we've been kids as adults,

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kids have never been adults,

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so we can in fact

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understand and remember

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what it is like

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to just be a kid

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and be governed by the moment and by impulsivity

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and reactivity and whatever I feel I do.

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I don't think about anything.

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We understand all that,

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and we can even remember that if we try.

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But adulthood bias gets in the way.

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And so here's what ends up happening.

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Adults end up going,

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Why did you do that?

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What were you thinking?

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What in the world made you throw that?

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You know better.

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What is going on?

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Why are you acting like this?

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Why are you crying?

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What,

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and adults just completely are biased to kids' realities.

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And the danger of that,

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I think,

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is that

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kids always feel dismissed.

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And kids always feel confused,

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and it always becomes a power struggle.

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Because when kids say

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I don't know,

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then that makes people even more angry.

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What do you mean you don't know?

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You know better,

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baba.

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And there's all of this power struggling

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verbal dialogue,

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which there's the irony,

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kids aren't verbal either.

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So there's more adulthood bias coming in.

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See,

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here's the thing,

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this is so multi-layered.

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We expect kids to think

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they don't.

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We expect kids to talk,

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they don't.

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We expect kids to process cognitively,

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they don't.

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We expect them to reason,

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they don't.

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We expect them to be rational,

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they're not.

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And all of our interactions,

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all of the ways that adults typically approach kids.

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There's bias driving it.

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If we were unbiased

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And we could actually remember what it was like to be a child again.

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We would recognize we have to meet them where they are.

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We need to reflect their feelings.

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We need to provide choices.

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We need to validate

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Especially their experience,

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but at the very least their emotions.

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And we need to set limits when necessary.

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But

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we would understand that they are just acting in childlike,

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developmentally and age-appropriate ways.

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So adulthood bias,

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I believe,

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is going to be the gateway for us to help parents

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when we have our initial parent consultations,

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and we're justifying CCPT as an intervention.

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In our subsequent 5-week consultations

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when parents are complaining.

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Because we've had this conversation 67 times,

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and my kid still does X Y Z,

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but that's your adulthood bias coming in.

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Here's why.

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But that's adulthood bias interfering with developmental appropriateness.

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So now,

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my hope

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is that you are going to be able to use the phrase.

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And introduce it in your interactions.

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Think about the,

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the expanse of this though.

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So what about when we talk to pediatricians?

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Or principles?

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Or teachers,

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coaches,

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caregivers,

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parents,

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guardians,

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judges,

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attorneys,

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you name it,

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any stakeholder in a child's life.

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If we can,

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even if they don't agree,

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even if they don't

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fully get on board,

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even if they still think it's a bunch bunch of hogwash,

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whatever,

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you've at least planted a seed.

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And

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we know

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most people need to hear something 7 plus or minus 2 times.

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So if that's the first time that it's ever been brought to their attention,

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it may not take root right away,

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but the seed is planted at least.

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And I think that if we can start using this phrase enough.

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It will resonate

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And my hope is

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that

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as people start to at least think about this,

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well,

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I might be biased cause I'm,

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I'm an adult,

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it's hard for me to remember what it's like to be a kid.

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Do you know how many interactions I witnessed between an adult and a child?

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And I go,

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the adult is totally missing.

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Fill in the blank.

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They're totally

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missing.

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The feeling.

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They're totally missing the why.

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They're totally missing the experience.

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They're totally missing what's going on for this kid right now.

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It gets missed

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And I would also argue

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that most adults don't want to be that dismissive.

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They don't want to be that off track.

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They don't want to seem that callous to a child's

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experience in any given moment.

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But it's adulthood bias getting in the way.

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So not only do we need to label it,

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but then we need to have the antidotes,

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which

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CCPT principles are the antidotes.

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We know that,

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we've always known that.

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So it's part of psycho education,

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right?

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So we're going to share principles and tips and strategies like we always do,

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but now we have this phrase to fall back on.

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And I hope that changes the dynamic of the conversation

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that you're having with adults in their lives.

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All right,

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a couple of housekeeping things before I wrap up for today.

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First of all,

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I love y'all.

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Thanks for hanging out with me.

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Thank you for

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giving me your ears every week,

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multiple times a week.

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I know it started out as 1,

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and now it's like 3 or 4,

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so you just get more of me whether you like it or not,

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but I appreciate y'all.

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Secondly,

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if you are a last minute person,

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you know,

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if you wait till the last minute,

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it only takes a minute to do.

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I get it,

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but you are running out of time to not only sign up for the Mississippi

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APT conference and you're running out of time to sign up for the Mississippi meetup.

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So if you

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need or want to do either one of those,

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please make sure that you sign up for the meetup.

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There's a link in the show notes and sign up for the conference.

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You have to go to the website to do that.

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I'm really looking forward,

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I'm the keynote all day Saturday,

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so I'm really looking forward to hanging out with all of you in

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the Mississippi,

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Alabama,

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Tennessee,

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South Carolina region of the world.

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And that's gonna be a lot of fun.

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By the way,

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I am speaking in Virginia in March,

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which I know it's like March,

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whatever,

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but that's a month from now.

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So

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y'all need to be thinking about getting tickets for the Virginia APT conference

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and or getting ready to sign up for the meetup in Virginia.

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We will be having one details TBA.

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And finally,

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I have been

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thinking a lot about

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this year and CCPT and I actually just sent out an email newsletter

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with some really exciting things that are happening.

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Y'all just blow me away.

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I,

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I really,

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I can't express enough,

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00:11:02,359 --> 00:11:03,049
the hunger,

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the passion,

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the excitement,

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the drive.

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To be CCPT through and through,

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to hone your skills,

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to grow,

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to excel,

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to really

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just go top tier practitioner,

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it really truly is a gift.

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I'm grateful for it every single day,

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and the coaching,

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the collective,

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the podcast,

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everything that's going on,

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00:11:27,859 --> 00:11:30,229
all of the CEUs that y'all are taking through Corwell,

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00:11:30,380 --> 00:11:30,570
it,

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it's just,

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it's blowing my mind.

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There's this huge

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wave.

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I keep talking about that,

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00:11:36,450 --> 00:11:37,039
but I mean it.

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I think it's the best illustration.

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There's a wave of CCPT taking over the play therapy world

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and I'm so grateful to be a part of it.

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I'm grateful that we're on this journey together so

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keep fighting,

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keep pushing,

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keep advocating,

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keep doing what you're doing.

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00:11:52,650 --> 00:11:53,719
It's one

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00:11:54,130 --> 00:11:55,330
minute at a time,

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one play session at a time,

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one kid at a time,

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changing the world.

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00:12:00,919 --> 00:12:02,200
And really quick story,

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00:12:02,450 --> 00:12:04,650
when I was 1819,

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00:12:04,929 --> 00:12:06,080
fresh out of high school,

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00:12:06,450 --> 00:12:09,650
a new youth pastor started at our church and he

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Gave me a bandanna.

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00:12:12,799 --> 00:12:13,710
I still have it,

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00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:16,549
and it had world changer on it with

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00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:18,349
the image of the globe on it

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and he said to me,

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go be a world changer,

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Brenna.

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Now,

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when you're 18 years old,

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00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:24,799
what does that look like?

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And

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00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:26,210
my entire childhood,

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00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:28,510
I was convinced I wanted to be an MD doctor

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00:12:28,510 --> 00:12:30,869
and I wanted to do like a doctorctors Without Borders.

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00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:32,039
Kind of thing.

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00:12:32,099 --> 00:12:34,440
I wanted to go do mission work and be a

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00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,179
medical doctor in some remote corner of the world,

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00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:39,349
really thought that was what I

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would want to do.

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And,

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you know,

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00:12:42,929 --> 00:12:43,770
God has other plans,

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right?

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00:12:44,090 --> 00:12:45,549
So I end up

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00:12:45,969 --> 00:12:48,450
majoring in undergrad psychology.

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00:12:49,349 --> 00:12:50,830
And then a long string of events,

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00:12:50,909 --> 00:12:52,340
wanted to work with the elderly.

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00:12:52,859 --> 00:12:52,890
I,

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00:12:52,909 --> 00:12:53,320
I know,

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00:12:53,380 --> 00:12:54,809
irony upon irony,

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00:12:54,869 --> 00:12:58,070
but wanted to work with geriatric population and then

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00:12:58,070 --> 00:13:00,020
found play therapy and I've never looked back.

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00:13:00,669 --> 00:13:02,020
The moral of the story is,

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00:13:02,270 --> 00:13:04,099
I think about it all the time.

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00:13:05,309 --> 00:13:05,869
What

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00:13:06,270 --> 00:13:07,109
better way?

382
00:13:07,969 --> 00:13:10,630
Is there in this world to change it?

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00:13:11,469 --> 00:13:12,380
Than to help kids.

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00:13:14,130 --> 00:13:14,580
And I'm,

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00:13:14,700 --> 00:13:18,859
I'm not saying that other populations of other ages and other scenarios,

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00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,770
they don't need help or warrant help or deserve it.

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00:13:21,940 --> 00:13:22,940
That's not my implication,

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00:13:23,020 --> 00:13:24,570
but my implication is

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00:13:25,099 --> 00:13:26,849
if you change the world.

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00:13:27,979 --> 00:13:29,049
You change kids.

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00:13:30,190 --> 00:13:32,400
Because kids are the future of the world.

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00:13:33,219 --> 00:13:34,340
And my,

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00:13:34,419 --> 00:13:37,750
my vision is a world full of happy kids who become happy adults.

394
00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,030
Every single play session that we have,

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00:13:41,039 --> 00:13:43,630
every time we walk through that playroom door.

396
00:13:44,820 --> 00:13:47,780
It's changing the world one kid at a time,

397
00:13:47,950 --> 00:13:49,299
one session at a time,

398
00:13:49,789 --> 00:13:50,590
and

399
00:13:50,950 --> 00:13:54,780
back to being 18 years old and getting a bandanana that said world changer on it.

400
00:13:55,390 --> 00:13:57,479
What a gift and privilege and honor.

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00:13:58,340 --> 00:14:01,590
That we get to be a part of making the world a better place.

402
00:14:02,469 --> 00:14:03,119
And

403
00:14:03,309 --> 00:14:04,940
I know all of you all over the world.

404
00:14:05,059 --> 00:14:05,659
By the way,

405
00:14:05,830 --> 00:14:06,909
I said this in the newsletter,

406
00:14:06,919 --> 00:14:08,950
but this is worth saying on air.

407
00:14:09,690 --> 00:14:10,830
I have listeners,

408
00:14:11,119 --> 00:14:11,880
we have listeners.

409
00:14:11,919 --> 00:14:13,359
I don't think of this as my podcast,

410
00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:14,969
I think of this as our podcast.

411
00:14:15,039 --> 00:14:15,409
So,

412
00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:16,869
this podcast

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00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,450
has 130 countries.

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00:14:20,250 --> 00:14:21,349
That have downloaded

415
00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:22,750
this podcast.

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00:14:22,919 --> 00:14:24,260
130 countries,

417
00:14:24,359 --> 00:14:25,200
can you believe that?

418
00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,030
That's nuts in the best way.

419
00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:32,270
So 130 countries are represented in the audience here

420
00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:34,219
wanting to

421
00:14:34,679 --> 00:14:36,429
be a CCPT provider

422
00:14:36,719 --> 00:14:40,280
and wanting to learn and grow and hone skills.

423
00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:43,830
That's changing the world in every corner of it.

424
00:14:44,359 --> 00:14:45,400
I get emails all the time.

425
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:47,390
I just got an email this week from Ireland

426
00:14:47,820 --> 00:14:48,190
and

427
00:14:48,599 --> 00:14:49,669
the email line said,

428
00:14:49,799 --> 00:14:53,559
thank you for helping us change this little corner of Ireland.

429
00:14:54,390 --> 00:14:56,080
And that's going on everywhere,

430
00:14:56,219 --> 00:14:59,059
these little pockets and these little corners all over the states,

431
00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:00,979
all over North and South America,

432
00:15:00,989 --> 00:15:01,659
all over Europe,

433
00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:02,419
all over Asia,

434
00:15:02,460 --> 00:15:03,489
all over Australia.

435
00:15:03,820 --> 00:15:05,010
It's incredible

436
00:15:05,539 --> 00:15:08,580
that CCPT is getting firmly rooted.

437
00:15:09,619 --> 00:15:11,309
In all of these places.

438
00:15:11,729 --> 00:15:12,799
How exciting.

439
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:14,479
I hope that that

440
00:15:14,890 --> 00:15:16,039
makes you want to get up in the morning,

441
00:15:16,289 --> 00:15:17,760
makes me want to get up in the morning.

442
00:15:18,090 --> 00:15:18,609
So anyway,

443
00:15:18,770 --> 00:15:19,369
I love y'all.

444
00:15:19,450 --> 00:15:20,239
Thanks for hanging out.

445
00:15:20,289 --> 00:15:24,030
If you want to refer parents to the parenting podcast about adulthood bias,

446
00:15:24,369 --> 00:15:25,919
that would be a helpful resource for you.

447
00:15:25,969 --> 00:15:26,890
We'll talk again soon.

448
00:15:27,049 --> 00:15:27,289
Bye.

449
00:15:28,409 --> 00:15:31,169
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.

450
00:15:31,330 --> 00:15:32,280
Brenna Hicks.

451
00:15:32,450 --> 00:15:34,440
For more episodes and resources,

452
00:15:34,530 --> 00:15:39,289
please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.