Late-Round Perspectives: Marcas Grant

00:00:00
Speaker 1: Marcus Grant is a fantasy analyst for NFL Network who also does multiple shows for Fantasy Life. He's a Southern California alum, a West Coast dad. He was once a play by play announcer and Geno Smith may or may not be his doppel game. These are his Late Round perspectives. This episode is sponsored by Underdog. Underdog is the easiest place to play fantasy sports and they give you a ton of different games and contests to choose from each week. If you think drafting is over because the season started, you'd be wrong. You can draft teams over there each week in literal minutes right now. If you sign up an Underdog with promo code Late Round, you not only get a deposit offer of up to one thousand dollars, but you also get access to my rest of season rankings. Those will be emailed to you once you sign up. But when you sign up, you have to use promo code late Round head an Underdog Fantasy dot Com or download the app to do so. Again, that's promo code Late Round. Now back to the show. Nice to see your face in this environment and not just on a commercial. You know, I feel like every time i'm watching, especially like the the Games in London. I always see a commercial with your with your mug in it and you talking on set.

00:01:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's funny because like so I've been like, my face has been in the commercial the promo for a while. They've never given me a quote in it. And this year, this year, they've given me a quote. And they splice together two things where I say, he's a big strung guy, he's the guy I want. And my wife thinks it is the funniest thing. Ever when she sees it, she rewinds it and makes me listen to it over and over again.

00:01:46
Speaker 1: That's that's true now now that I'm thinking about it, that is what you're saying, and that which is unbelievably amazing.

00:01:54
Speaker 3: That's so perfect.

00:01:56
Speaker 1: But yeah, man, it's it's good to it's good to sit down and chop it up a little bit. I was also thinking, king, uh, you know, you get the the Geno Smith doppelganger. You know I get the Joe Flacco doppelganger all the time. So this is just this is just Geno Smith and Joe Flacco chopping it up today.

00:02:11
Speaker 3: That's all.

00:02:11
Speaker 2: This is obviously exactly just two veteran quarterbacks talking about the game.

00:02:15
Speaker 4: That's all it is.

00:02:16
Speaker 3: That's right, that's right.

00:02:18
Speaker 1: Uh So, look, with late round perspectives, I always like to start off the conversation to let you sort of talk through your journey. Let folks know where you've come from and and uh, you know how you got to where you are. I mean you're, uh you know at the flagship if you will, with with NFL Network and and do you guys call it like like would you consider like do you when when when someone says where do you work? Do you say NFL Network or the NFL or NFL Media.

00:02:44
Speaker 2: Uh. I sort of interchange all three of them, to be honest with you. You know, I work for the NFL, I work at NFL Network, I work for Yeah, they're all sort of interchangeable.

00:02:52
Speaker 3: It's okay. I never I never knew.

00:02:54
Speaker 1: I didn't know if it was like a if there was like a go to for folks. That was because I will have an intro for you for the show itself, and you know, I gotta make sure I get that right. But anyway, let everyone know sort of like how you got into this space where it all started, where the passion came from all that good stuff.

00:03:11
Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:03:12
Speaker 2: I always tell people that this job sort of found me more than I went looking for it. I had worked in radio in various forms for a long time. I did minor league baseball play by play for two seasons.

00:03:25
Speaker 4: I worked for some.

00:03:26
Speaker 2: Local radio stations, you know, covering a lot of high school and junior college sports and doing just kind of local sports talk radio.

00:03:32
Speaker 4: For a while.

00:03:34
Speaker 2: Was lucky to get a job with a national sports radio network, which was then Sporting News Radio. They've morphed into several other things since then. But after working there for like a year and a half two years they the company was sold. The owner wanted to move operations to Houston. They offered me a chance. I said, you know, look, I'm a California guy through and through, born and raised, wanted to stay in Los Angeles. I figured I will stick it out and just try my hand and figure something else out. So I was fun employed for about eleven months. A former co worker at the radio network suggested I apply to jobs at the NFL. He had been working their season at least, that they're always looking for folks in season. So I literally went to like NFL dot com slash Jobs or whatever the website is, and applied for like five or six things, most of which I wasn't qualified for. Nothing happened for a while. So this is twenty eleven. The lockout was happening, and they weren't even sure if there was going to be a season that year, so I applied to stuff. It just sort of went out in the void and I didn't know what was going to happen. I kind of forgot about it. I got a phone call several months later from Michael Fabiano asking me if I wanted to apply for a job or interview for a job writing about fantasy football, and I'm like, well, does it pay?

00:04:47
Speaker 4: And he's like yeah.

00:04:48
Speaker 2: I was like sure, because at the time I was basically sitting on my couch freelance writing and watching reruns of Law and Order SVU.

00:04:54
Speaker 4: So I'm like, this beat this, certainly beat that. So I went in fun.

00:05:00
Speaker 2: In fact, I actually the night before the interview, I read a whole bunch of his columns and I regurgitated his information back to him nice in the interview. The day the lockout ended, I remember I woke up in the morning, I turned on ESPN. They're announcing the lockout is over. The league and the players union have come to a decision there will be football this year. A couple of hours after that, I got a phone call saying I was hired. I was a seasonal employee for the first couple of years, so like I started in August, I would work till like March. Then they would send me back out into the wilderness and I would come back next August. So after a couple of years of that, they hired me full time. I was able to sort of con my way onto some guest appearances on the podcast, a couple of cameos on the TV show, and here we are thirteen years later, in my fourteenth season, and it's sort of blossomed into something nice for me.

00:05:49
Speaker 1: That's crazy, man, I feel like they have they changed sort like I remember other people that you know, I've known in the space that worked there and whatnot that kind of went through the same path of like being seasonal for a while and then like that turning into full time. Was that also sort of just like, hey, we don't know a fantasy football is like this big of a market and this big of a thing right now, so we can't really dedicate that many resources to it.

00:06:16
Speaker 2: It's it's sort of a the seven month thing. The seasonal thing is kind of a right of passage around here in all departments, right, like fantasy just across all departments. A lot of times they'll just bring people in for the season, have them worked for seven months. If you are sort of lucky and you get tapped on the shoulder to get a full time job, then that's certainly a great thing. But yeah, I mean, I'll say this for us, it's it's good and bad, right, Like, it's nice to kind of be able to bring people in and kind of get them up to speed and teach them things. But we always sort of like to kind of build a group. I mean, you know, look, we had Matt Harmon here for years, right, that dude is a huge star.

00:06:49
Speaker 4: Now.

00:06:50
Speaker 2: I mean we had guys like Alex Gelhar who were here for years, Matt Francisco Vic. I mean, we kind of built our own little group, which was really really fun. Yeah, you know, for the folks out there who remember, I mean we still you know, we still talk, we're still all friends, we still keep in touch, in close contacts.

00:07:04
Speaker 4: So that's cool.

00:07:05
Speaker 2: Definitely sad that that part of it ended, but it was sort of nice to be able to work together and kind of build that camaraderie.

00:07:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was That was a fun, fun day and age those those like looking back, you guys definitely had like great camaraderie. And then you would also get the random pictures on Twitter if you guys out.

00:07:20
Speaker 3: At the bar and stuff.

00:07:21
Speaker 1: You know, it wasn't just solely it was it made me, as someone who's just always worked from home alone, you know, without you not really in the office space and stuff, it did make me a little bit jealousy you guys were able to to do that and hang out. Did you, like, like from a fantasy perspective, did you ever have your sight set on it being fantasy football? You know, you said that you did some play by play stuff. Was football the passion or was it just like sports in general?

00:07:46
Speaker 4: For you? It was really sports in general.

00:07:48
Speaker 2: I mean, I think if if I had a first love sports wise, it was probably baseball. But I definitely liked football a lot. I was when I when I started this job. I didn't play fantasy like on a high com heaitive level. I played it socially, you know. I was in one league because it was a chance to keep in contact with friends from high school.

00:08:08
Speaker 4: I joined another league.

00:08:09
Speaker 2: I moved to a new city for a job, and one of my coworkers invited me into his league, and I'm like, well, it's a good chance for me to meet new people in a scene where I don't know anybody. So I never really played it on a high level until I started in this when I told my friends and I got the gig doing fantasy football for the NFL.

00:08:24
Speaker 4: I got so many more offers to be in fantasy.

00:08:26
Speaker 2: Leagues from people, but yeah, I just I was never really that into it. It was just kind of a fun pastime, just kind of a different way to watch football.

00:08:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is crazy to think about, because I feel like those kinds of opportunities, like like the way that that folks kind of got into the Space that time, in that time frame, I mean I started around the exact same time. Actually, it was like around the I started writing my ebook, like in the Lockout season. Then it came out the next season and stuff. But it seems like, you know, now, when folks are getting jobs with the Space, it's because they're like insanely you know, like they just they just love the game so much more than anyone else, and that's why they're getting the job in the space, you.

00:09:04
Speaker 2: Know, yeah, one hundred percent. And it's funny I've started kind of telling people that, you know, like I'm always glad to give advice to people who are looking to get into the space, but I also tell people that, like, I might be one of the worst people to ask because my first job in the space was with the NFL, Like yeah, right, you know, like I didn't have the process of you know, grinding through a blog or writing for a small site. Like I walked into a situation that was ready made. Like I'm grateful for it. I'm fortunate. It's going to be a very good life. But like, you know, for somebody who's just starting and trying to figure out how to get their foot in the door, I keep telling like, I'm probably not the best person to come to with that advice because I didn't have that journey to get to where I am.

00:09:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really interesting because like I talked to roto Pat last week and his is kind of like, Okay, I did like a little short stint at like Rotoballer or something like that, and then it was rotal World and it's still rot World ever since. And it's like, yeah, it's kind of like, you know, it's the same timeframe as all of this, as all of us kind of entering the space and whatnot, and things have definitely changed. But you you man, I mean, like I've seen you get so much better, not just like as a because look, what you do with your job is a lot different than what the standard fantasy analyst is going to be doing for their job. And I think that's lost at times with people. Is that like like you have to have a certain presence on television, which is a completely different skill set as grinding spreadsheets, if you will, right and putting a data dump thread on Twitter together, you know, And I think that you know, I've seen it. I've seen you get a lot better. But you're also getting better as an analyst. It's just great to see all around. So don't don't sell yourself shore taking that like you know, oh I got it at NFL and like there has there's been tons and tons of growth still, you know, on your end, for sure.

00:10:48
Speaker 4: I appreciate that. It's interesting.

00:10:49
Speaker 2: What I've learned about where I am too is sort of having to speak to a much broader audience at the same time, you know, like we get a lot of folks who, Yeah, we have folks who are definitely hardcore into this thing. We also get a lot of folks who just like I just play it in a work league or a family league, and I'm trying not to look like a jerk. So it's kind of being able to speak to them. So like I, you know, I don't pretend to be a spreadsheet grinder or a tape grinder, but I certainly pay attention to what you guys and all those other folks are doing because I need to be able to kind of take a lot of that information and distill it down for an audience that maybe.

00:11:21
Speaker 4: Is playing on a more casual level.

00:11:23
Speaker 2: And so yeah, you know I figure out that is that is a skill in and of itself. So yeah, it's it's always sort of about trying to like, you know, get better and read other people and watch other people and sort of figure out you know, obviously get my own research and kind of do my own thing, but also kind of be able to figure out what other people are doing and being able to kind of take that information and kind of spread the gospel that way.

00:11:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's kind of That's how Bob Harris talked about it on when I had him on a few weeks ago. It's a similar process of like, you know, be open minded and realize that other people are good at different different things and take those different things and you know, make sure that you're you know, like like absorbing as much as you possibly can, because why wouldn't you.

00:11:58
Speaker 4: There's more exactly exactly, So.

00:12:01
Speaker 1: All right, so a lot of stuff went down this week. We got to get to some some some actual fantasy takes here. We had two massive trades go down earlier this week. It was hilarious because you know, the Jets go out, they get Davonte Adams, then literal hours later the Bills, after the Bills had beat them the previous night. The Bills go out and sort of like almost one up them and or you know, try to and getting Amari Cooper. So my question, you, let's start with Davante Adams and the Jets, how do you see this whole thing playing out? And do you straight up are you more on the Adam side or the Garrett Wilson's side.

00:12:32
Speaker 3: Rest of season?

00:12:33
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm probably more on the Adams side, only because we have seen Aaron Rodgers when he is with guys that he's comfortable with, right. I mean, there's a reason Alan Lazard has been a thing for the first six weeks of the seasons, because you know, Rogers has worked with him, he can trust him, he knows where he's going to be, and so now you have the ultimate version of that with DeVante Adams. It's funny because I think Aaron Rodgers in a lot of ways is sort of like Adam Sandler, where he just keeps bringing his frame along for all of.

00:13:00
Speaker 4: The movies that he keeps making. Like that.

00:13:03
Speaker 2: That is Aaron Rodgers, right, bringing along Alanlizard and digging up Randall Cobb every once in a while, you know, sort of things. So now he gets Devonte Adams in there. That being said, Garrett Wilson is not going to go away. He's still way too talented to not have a role in this offense. Now you've got a really dangerous one to two punch that you have to try and defend. I think the upside for Wilson is they can move him around a little bit. Now, they can maybe try him in the slot, try to get some more matchups with him there and get him the football.

00:13:32
Speaker 4: So I think this elevates him a lot.

00:13:33
Speaker 2: At this point, Mike Williams is basically persona non grata and who knows, who knows if he sticks around, right, Like, maybe he ends up getting shipped out into trade somewhere at some point, but you know, he was obviously struggling to sort of connect with Rogers in the first place. We've had two Jets games basically end on Rogers trying to target Williams and getting picked off, Like that's pretty much a wrap. And then like you know, Malachi Corley, who was supposed to be discount Deebo Samuel you know, not only gets his numbers snatched away from him by Vante Adams. He shows up in New York, but now there's even fewer targets for him to go around. So I think for the rest of the season this is the Adams and Wilson's show, with maybe a little bit of Tyler Conklin sprinkled in for good measure.

00:14:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that the call out of Wilson being able to move around the formation and stuff is really important to his potential fantasy value.

00:14:23
Speaker 3: I agree. I've added you know, I like Adams. I think Adams like a high.

00:14:25
Speaker 1: End two and Wilson's more like a mid range two kind of in that like, you know, maybe even lower end, but regardless. It's like I go back to the game that they had against Denver, where you know, if you have this other piece in DeVante Adams, imagine you know, Adams being able to take away some of that coverage. But then I mean, you can move both these guys inside out. I mean, you can do a lot of creative things, and then all of a sudden, from like a production standpoint and like a fantasy standpoint, you're now getting maybe a less scary floor in those situations when you know you're getting a Patrick Certan and you know that all like you can't even throw that way and you only have one weapon that you can really rely on. So maybe he'll get some volume, but not nearly enough. But at least now you can maybe throw him in the slot a little bit more, win on efficiency a little bit more. And like you said, I mean, Garrett Wilson is a really good player. Are we are we gonna be surprised if they combined to see half of the team's targets like at like each seed twenty five percent, Like it feels like that's that's almost probable at this point, right.

00:15:19
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely it is.

00:15:20
Speaker 2: And I think part of it too, as you mentioned, you know some of the matchups, right, I think early in the season we weren't seeing big numbers out of Garrett Wilson. He had some really tough matchups. I mean, they start the season with the forty nine ers, He's locked up on Diamador Lenore. Then they say's the Titans. He's got Lugerius Snead, he goes Patrick sir Tin, he goes Christian Gonzales. Yeah, I mean he was seeing some of the top corners in the league in the first four weeks of the season and was really struggling to get open. So now you've got Devonte Adams who probably is gonna eat some of those matchups, who you feel a little bit better about winning some of those one on ones. And now they can kind of play a little bit more fast and loose with Wilson's role and maybe get.

00:15:54
Speaker 4: Him on some better situations there.

00:15:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, Like like Adams is the guy that can play the perimeter, like like you know, they get to steal this weekend, they're gonna get there, They'll get they'll get Joey Porter Jr. And now, instead of that being like this daunting matchup for Garrett Wilson, you don't actually feel as bad about it because you know that he's not gonna just line up against them on every snap and Davante Adams can take some of that away.

00:16:13
Speaker 3: And like, at the end of the day, man.

00:16:15
Speaker 1: Like, this is no shade to Garrett Wilson, who I think is is very very, very very good, right, But he's not the same kind of receiver as Davante Adams, right, Like, he's not like this, like this game breaking, like DeVonta Adams is a Hall of Fame wide receiver that we're talking about here, right, And and it's not you know, it's to me, Garrett Wilson has always just been like a Chrystal Lave type, you know, Jalen Waddle maybe like in that in not not necessarily as players per se, like as archetypes, but like more so just like the kind of impact that they can make on a game and in a game. It's not to say anything bad, those are two very very very good wide receivers.

00:16:50
Speaker 3: It's just that we're.

00:16:51
Speaker 1: Talking Devonte Adams here, and he hasn't really he hasn't seen a dips, which is which is why you know, I think that this uh is is a decently big d uh for this offense, even though there are obviously other other issues with the offense in general.

00:17:05
Speaker 4: No no doubt.

00:17:06
Speaker 2: I want you to ask you real quick though, do you think we elevated Jarret Wilson a little bit too soon?

00:17:11
Speaker 4: Right?

00:17:11
Speaker 2: Like we were putting him at the the end of the first round, early second round, thinking of him as like a legit lockdown, you know, low and wide receiver one.

00:17:19
Speaker 4: Did we jump the gun on that?

00:17:21
Speaker 1: I think to a degree, yeah, because we you know, I'll say this, I think that part of that valuation because I had him as like an early two I think in my rankings or something like that. I think part of that. But I was also pretty wide receiver heavy. But but part of the the evaluation there was the lack of competition because you know, to me, to me, this is at the end, this is still a mathematical game in a math driven game, right like this is a numbers driven game at the end of the day.

00:17:47
Speaker 3: And the way that.

00:17:48
Speaker 1: You you know, every team is a one hundred target share pie right now, I'm not, you know, we have we can say what we want about like vacated targets and how targets are earned and target share is earned, right and and Garrett Wilson is going to earn target share. But you can't tell me that Garrett Wilson's gonna have the same target share you know, with Devonte Adams as he did without DeVante Adams. You know, he had I guess Minnesota, his target share was forty three percent. That kind of game is not gonna happen anymore for Garrett Wilson with DeVante Adams, you know, in the mix. So I think from the standpoint of like a projection, I don't know if he was like massively you know, like in hindsight even and like looking at how things have gone down, maybe we overstated his ability a little bit to be sort of that sole guy. My my stance was, like I didn't see a massive difference between like Garrett Wilson to Drake London, for instance, where like they both had veteran quarterbacks coming off of Achilles, and they they both were in line to kind of beir their dudes in the offense, and you know, you could argue the reason I Garrett Wilson ahead was because his competition was a little worse than what Drake London was seeing. But yeah, I mean, like I didn't see a reason to draft Garrett Wilson over like Aj Brown, you know, where we knew he was a game changing wide receiver and we didn't necessarily have all of that just yet with Wilson.

00:19:05
Speaker 3: Is that is that? Is that far? Do you think or did you like in hindsight?

00:19:08
Speaker 1: Even I think it's fine to look in hindsight and say, like, yes, we were right or we were wrong as like a market, But do you do you think that we did kind of overstate Wilson in his ability?

00:19:17
Speaker 2: I think I think his ability I think we did. I think I think the numbers part of it. I think we certainly have right because you know, we thought it was going to be the Garrett Wilson Show. We didn't think that, you know, we didn't think Allen was always going to show up like Steve Bushimi and you know, and Billy Madison to make a big time Campko anywhere along the way. But I think in terms of ability, we were like Garrett Wilson is amazing. That alone's going to carry the day, forget everything else. So I think that part we probably did get a little bit too hyped on. But I also think that in terms of where we had him, you were talking about that into the first round, early second round, the receivers, I feel like we had there were guys that all sort of had some question marks, and we just felt like Garrett Wilson maybe.

00:19:52
Speaker 4: Was the best of that group.

00:19:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, like sort of at the top of the tier, you know, like after AJ Brown was gone, it's like, okay, you can go you know, Pooka or whatever, or you could you can you know, you can lean Garret Wilson if you're worried about injury or whatever. But yeah, I think it's a fair question to at least ask and reflect on though, because you know, we saw what we saw and he's been, you know, at times this year, relatively inefficient, as we know, and you know that that plays into is he that kind of player? And the fact that the Jets went out, Now, look the Jets go out and they make that move. It was definitely a desperation. You know, they're they're they're they're trying to just do anything at this point to to maintain and be able to to survive after going all in. But I do think, you know, I know that people had the take that, like, you know, the Jets don't need Devanta Adams because they have so many other problems and stuff, which I don't disagree with.

00:20:39
Speaker 3: But I also think that you can always use DeVante.

00:20:41
Speaker 2: Adams, right, I mean, who doesn't need Devontae Adams right.

00:20:45
Speaker 3: Right, exactly exactly.

00:20:47
Speaker 1: I need though that a team that that definitely needed some wide receiver help was Buffalo, and they go out, they get Amari Cooper. You know, we've seen Khalil Shakir kind of have this slot role and perform pretty well. Dalton Kincaid over the last few weeks is finally seeing at least higher target chairs. The production has been amazing, but his target chairs have been there. Where are you at with Amari Cooper? What's what's his.

00:21:07
Speaker 3: Ceiling like to you?

00:21:09
Speaker 1: And then what about these other pieces in Buffalo, like a key on coleman A Shakir.

00:21:13
Speaker 2: Dalton Kincaid, Well, I think, first off, I think he elevates everybody else because he's a guy who's going to take some attention especially on the outside from you know away for because key On Coleman. I think he's got some nice attributes. I think he's had some nice moments, but I think on a week two week basis, he struggled to be consistent so far. I think one thing that I've taken away from this team is that, you know, the week they didn't have Khalil Shakir, that passing game really struggled.

00:21:36
Speaker 4: And I think that's a really big statement there.

00:21:38
Speaker 2: So I think Amari Cooper is a guy who probably maxes out now as a high end wide receiver too in this offense, because he's going to take some of that attention.

00:21:45
Speaker 4: He's a nice piece to have on the outside.

00:21:47
Speaker 2: But at the same time, Josh Allen is pretty good about spreading the ball around.

00:21:52
Speaker 4: You know, He's not necessarily going to lock in on one guy.

00:21:54
Speaker 2: So I don't think it's a situation where a MARII steps in and it's gonna get you know, twenty eight percent of the targets or anything like that. You're still gonna see Shakir involved, Kincaid's gonna get his opportunities, You'll get the uh, we'll all get fooled by the occasional Dawson Knox touchdown where it's like we see the eight and on the front of the jersey, we're like, oh, oh no, that's that's not our guy, you know, And that's still the factor in that You're gonna have James Cook get his targets, You're gonna apparently gonna have Ray Davis getting downfield targets based on what we saw on Monday night.

00:22:23
Speaker 4: So I think this is just.

00:22:24
Speaker 2: Sort of one more thing that forces defense is to have to pay attention to everything. I don't think it's gonna be quite like we're talking about in New York, where everything's gonna be kind of funneled through you through DeVante Adams and Garrett Wilson. This is still gonna be pretty spread out. But now you've got a guy that forces defense is to have to kind of play the whole field to kind of widen out a little bit.

00:22:45
Speaker 4: And I think they opened some things up for everybody else in Buffalo.

00:22:47
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:22:48
Speaker 1: The other thing, I think a lot of people are probably naturally and this is not even based on like what I've seen on Twitter or anything. This is just based on how I would imagine some fantasy managers are thinking where they see in Alpha or you know, quote unquote Alpha going to Buffalo and the last time they had one with Stephan Diggs and the last time you know, aside from the second half of last year, Diggs dominated in fantasy football with Josh Allen.

00:23:12
Speaker 3: Right, I think that the.

00:23:14
Speaker 1: The the key difference that people need to remember is that this Joe Brady led team on offense is so much more run heavy than what they were even a couple of years ago.

00:23:26
Speaker 3: Your whether it's Dorsey whoever.

00:23:27
Speaker 1: And so I do think that's really like right now they're you know, bottom two and pass attempts per game, their their neutral script ratio is like twenty first in the league. Like it's it's not a pass heavy team. And so you know, if theyre if what you're saying, like if if you are a believer that there is going to be uh, you know, a little bit of a disbursement in terms of target share. I think that's a factor that people need to remember and think about in terms of like what Cooper ceiling might actually look.

00:23:55
Speaker 2: Like it is, And like I think also just I think personality differences between a Mark Cooper and Stephan the right Cooper doesn't seem like the guy who's going to go and make a stink, whether it's in the locker room, whether it's in the media about not getting his opportunities. I mean, I think there's probably a portion of him that's just glad to be out of Cleveland.

00:24:11
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:24:11
Speaker 1: I mean, some people were saying that he was just throwing like the last this season, that he's just like, I don't want to be here anymore, So I'm just gonna drop some passes right now.

00:24:20
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly.

00:24:21
Speaker 2: So, I mean he's gonna be in a situation now where he goes from one of the worst offenses in the league to one that you know's definitely a lot more productive and on a team that has a legit shot and making a deep run in the playoffs. I think that alone is going to help. But you know, you mentioned the Joe Brady offense. I mean, it's sort of predicated on getting as many guys involved as possible and not force feeding targets to one guy. So, you know, I think there's definitely an uptick for Mari Cooper, but I don't think it's suddenly.

00:24:44
Speaker 4: Like through the move or through the roof for him to the moon. With him this year.

00:24:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I'm with you.

00:24:49
Speaker 1: Let's let's let's stay with the Bills and talk about a guy that you mentioned, Ray Davis. This is probably one of the more pressing questions in fantasy football this week where James Cook banged up didn't play on Monday night. We don't know at the time of this recording if he's gonna be able to go this weekend, and you know, obviously if he doesn't, then it's going to be the Ray Davis show again. But let's say that he goes and he plays. Where are you at with what this backfield is going to look like? Like? Do you think that because of what we saw from Ray Davis, he's going to carve out now has a role within that backfield?

00:25:18
Speaker 4: I think he does. I thought he would before the season.

00:25:21
Speaker 2: I mean, I've got plenty of best ball rosters with Ray Davis just sitting there waiting to do things, So you know, I mean, I think some of it is. Sean McDermott traditionally has not rushed rookies into his lineup, at least not when he can help it, and I think that was sort of the case here. But we saw last week what Ray Davis can do a little bit. I think what helps is that he is a different style of running back than James Cook. Is Cook's gonna try and kind of beat you around the corner, beat you with his speed. Ray Davis he's like that Juggernaut meme, right, He's just going to lower the head, lower.

00:25:52
Speaker 4: The shoulder and try to run through walls a little bit.

00:25:54
Speaker 2: So it almost feels like what the Bills had a couple of years ago when they were trying to make Zach massa thing, and it never quite happened in Buffalo. I think we're gonna see something like that. So I think if you have James Cook, you're a little bit worried. You're not you know, you're not all out panicked just yet, because I still think he gets a good target share in this offense. But I do think, you know, the look of him being something a kin to a Bellcow, I think that goes away just because Ray Davis showed what he can do. Honestly, that played that sort of scrambled drill where he's downfield and the Texas the ball what is it twenty thirty yards down the field? Uh, you know, kind of gives you reason to think that how do you keep this guy on the bench at this point. So if you've got Ray Davis, I think you feel encourage. If you've got James Cook, you're a little bit concerned. Like I said, you're not all out panic. But this is going to be I think that that gap between their snaps and their touches is gonna start to come down a little bit now.

00:26:42
Speaker 1: As as kind of stupid as this is at times, I do think there's a lot of this is my this is my more like subjective field based take about like how teams operate and stuff, because look, I don't think that that everything's gonna be answered you know, through numbers and through formulas and stuff.

00:26:58
Speaker 3: It's silly, but I do.

00:27:00
Speaker 1: I do think that teams care about identity. They care about the way that their offense generally operates, and the will that they impose on opposing defenses, like it matters to them in terms of how they do that and how they approach that. And even in I mean obviously in the media, you know you'll see people like the NFL talking heads just talking about like this is like Steelers football. Steelers football is always you know, you got you gotta you gotta run the football and play good defense. That's their identity. And you know, even though in like the twenty fourteen to twenty eighteen range, it wasn't even close to that with the Steelers. But regardless of all that, it does kind of feel like the Bills want this kind of running back to be part of what their identity is. Like if you again, going back to Joe Brady, they've been so much more run heavy since he got there in the middle of last year. You could even look at their like it's not like their numbers from like an offensive efficiency standpoint and like a you know, like if you look at EPA all that kind of stuff, it's not like their numbers were like dramatically different, you know, after the firing last year and Joe Brady taking over. It's just that they now have this identity of, you know, hopefully Josh Allen's not turning the ball over as much and they are running the football more and they can win in that way and in that manner, and it just feels like Ray Davis fits that better than a James Cook. Well, now it's not that James Cook doesn't have a purpose in that kind of offense, it's to me, it's kind of what James Cook was drafted for in a way. You know, I just never thought that James Cook was gonna be like a true belcow, which was why the start of this year I was kind of surprised that he had the workload that he had, not just because I thought Ray Davis was good, but I just didn't think that James Cook was like that kind of player that a coaching staff was.

00:28:43
Speaker 3: Going to want.

00:28:44
Speaker 1: Now he's balled out like James Cook has been great. I'm not taking anything away, but do you think that kind of plays a role here too, that they just kind of want this to be the way the offense operates.

00:28:53
Speaker 4: I think so.

00:28:54
Speaker 2: I never got the sense that the like you said, they wanted James Cook to be the guy that they always wanted somebody to sort of work alongside him.

00:29:02
Speaker 4: Again, that was, you know, they were trying it with Zach Moss for a while.

00:29:05
Speaker 2: I think James Cook got that workload kind of by default this year because I don't know that they were ready to get Davis into the game on a consistent basis. But now that they've played him, they see what he can do. I think they can kind of sort of go back to that identity, which you know, Look, there's still plenty of room in that offense for Cook, you know, but now it is it's more Crider, right, You've got Ray Davis playing well, you bring in Amari Cooper, some of those targets that belong to James Cook probably start to go away right now. But I think there's still room for him, just you know, he's not a workforce anymore.

00:29:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:29:36
Speaker 1: Another backfield where we have a rookie who you know, day three rookie who's been performing kind of out of his mind. I mean, he's been great, is Tyrone Tracy. Devin Singletary has been banged up again. At the time of this recording. We don't know whether or not Singletary. I would say he's trending in the right direction, but we still don't know, you know, if he's gonna be able to go, But I mean should if you have Devin Singletary and your fantasy team, are you nervous as can be about Tyrone Tracy?

00:29:59
Speaker 2: You're a little bit nervous for sure, because Tracy's been incredibly explosive. I'll say this, I didn't have big expectations for Devin Singletary coming into this year. I mean, the Giants offense looked like a mess, you know, like, you know, we sort of know what Daniel Jones is sa Quon was gone. He has outperformed my expectations. He's played really good football before he got hurt, for sure, but Tyrone Tracy has sort of been next level.

00:30:20
Speaker 4: He's been even more explosive in this offense.

00:30:22
Speaker 2: I think the thing that helps Singletary you talk about identity, right or coaches being comfortable with guys. Brian Dabole has a relationship with Devin Singletary from back in Buffalo, and they were very comfortable together, and so I think that sort of keeps him in a little bit of a lead role my I guess, I don't know fear concern is the right word, but I think the expectation for me is that this ends up being closer to a fifty to fifty split than I think we thought coming into the season, because again, sort of like Ray Davis, seeing what Tyrone Tracy has done the last couple of weeks makes it really hard to keep him off the field, especially in an offense that really needs playmaker. I mean, Yeahlie Neighbors is amazing. Darius Slayton had a nice game couple of weeks ago, but what do you do beyond that? So the more playmakers you can get on the field, I think, the better off you're gonna be. And Tracy has proven that he can be one of those guys.

00:31:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that there's at least a chance with Tracy that you know, at least from like a you know, if you're in a PPR league or whatever, like, he would end up taking some of that receiving work as an extracy. I mean, they made a huge deal out of that over and over again on their in their primetime game, talking about how he was a converted receiver, which looks it's a great story. It's a crazy story because he's a he's an older rookie. Like I liked him as a rookie. I didn't think that we would necessarily see this so soon. But when you look at the running backs they had, whether it's Eric Gray or Devin Singletary Tyrone, Tracy stood out from what you're saying an explosive an explosion standpoint, like he he tested so much better than those two other guys did. Just in terms of their forty and they're they're weight adjusted forty and their ability to to uh to show off that athleticism. Uh, he was better than them within that sort of realm. They didn't have that in their backfield. So I was like, all right, well, Tyrone, Tracy can catch the ball in the backfield. He's got more explosion. Let's see what happens here. And then all like he he looks like a veteran between the tackles. I mean like he's been He's not just been good as a receiver. He's been good at at picking the right holes. And his visions look great too, And so I'm I'm intrigued by that. And I think that at the very least, if it is a fifty to fifty split, he'd probably get the edge in the receiving game and then the passing game, and that would that would make me I don't think that we can necessarily make the lean right now, and saying that, like, oh yeah, Tracy's taking over. You know, he's the guy that we want rest of season, because like you said, I mean there's a history with Singletarian Dable. We just don't know exactly how it's gonna shake out. But I do think that if Singletary plays this week, and it's gonna be pretty telling to see what that what that backfield looks like, you know, because because it could be a situation where, uh, you know, Tracy just ends up kind of being the better value from here on out.

00:32:59
Speaker 2: For sure, Like you talk about him being a wide receiver too, Like, hopefully this actually goes the way we hoped it was gonna go with Antonio Gibson all those years. Yeah, she' were like, hey man, he was a wide receiver in college, why don't you use him like that? So hopefully the Giants are sort of you know, they take a more proactive approach with actually getting him on the field to catch passes.

00:33:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, the way I see.

00:33:16
Speaker 1: And what's really interesting is that in my in my prospect model and in my guidance stuff this year, one of Tyrone Tracy's comps was Tony Pollard. And that's just an objective, like it just spits it out based on a few attributes or whatever, and you know, you look at exactly I mean that Tony Pollard had a similarist journey in college. It wasn't as long, you know, he entered the league, like three or four years younger than Tyrone Tracy did. But I kind of see that workload and a similar like efficiency from a Tyrone Tracy as what we got with a Pollard. The difference being obviously that this offense isn't going to be as strong as what it was, you know, in Dallas. But on the flip side, Tony Pollard as a younger player, wasn't competing with Devin Singletary. He's competing with a superstar running back and Zeeke. So there's at least a little bit more upside of like a backfield takeover with Tracy than there was for for a guy like Tony Poller. But that's kind of like the you know, the type of running back that we're dealing with here. You know, you mentioned Antonio Gibson. That's another one who you know, we I think a lot of us thought had a little bit more upside. But he's been He's had an okay career all things considered, you know, not bad.

00:34:20
Speaker 2: And he's had a pretty good season in New England, especially you know, when when Stevenson's been banged up, he's doing some nice things just and I think I think our expectations were higher than what he's giving.

00:34:29
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I agree, I agree. He was definitely like a fantasy hive mind kind of playing.

00:34:34
Speaker 4: All right.

00:34:34
Speaker 1: Another backfield that is now muddy as can be is Tampa Bay, where you had, you know, Bucky Irving was showing up really really efficient, much more efficient than Rashad White. We thought that, you know, there was a chance that he would see just more and more work as the season went on. I don't know if a backfield takeover is ever gonna happen, but he at least, you know, had that flex appeal, maybe even low end RB two appeal. Rashad White gets hurt. Sean Tucker steps in this past week and he dominates. He was unbelievable against the Saints. Where are you at now? Is this going to be a three headed backfield?

00:35:05
Speaker 2: If you listen to Todd Bowles, if he is you know, not just coach speaking, Yeah, it's gonna be a three headed backfield. I mean that was the comment I saw earlier in the day, that you know, it's a three headed backfield. They're going to ride the hot hand, which is basically the worst thing that you could hear as a fantasy manager. That's going to happen there, because I think right now it just feels like they are still committed. They still have some loyalty to Rashad White because he's been their guy for a while. I think the thing about White last year that made him effective was because at some point the Bucks realized that we stink at actually running the football.

00:35:35
Speaker 4: So here, we're gonna throw a lot of short.

00:35:37
Speaker 2: Targets and sort of us that as our running game, and that boosted his value a lot for fantasy. He's not getting those this year, and he's not running the ball as well, and Bucky Irving has just been a straight up better running back. And then, as you mentioned, Tyrone Tracy comes barreling through the door. Like I learned last week, by the way, that there is a Sean Tucker hive on Twitter.

00:35:55
Speaker 4: I have no idea.

00:35:56
Speaker 1: I'm part of Sean Tucker Hive. For the record us yeah, okay, I only say this. I only say this. This is not a hindsight thing. This is not a this is not a he blew up and look at me. I love Sean Tucker. This is purely so I went back and looked at my prospect model. The best undrafted running back in that prospect model since twenty eleven is Sean Tucker.

00:36:17
Speaker 4: All right, No, And I here's thing.

00:36:18
Speaker 2: I don't think it's because the all the the Shan Tucker you know, high version.

00:36:22
Speaker 3: Some of it's really really obnoxious.

00:36:23
Speaker 2: For the record, I mean, like all the folks who showed up, like I mentioned about it, Like none of them seemed like they just showed up that day, right, Like I mean they were they were like they were digging up like Syracuse stuff, like they have been on this guy for a while.

00:36:36
Speaker 4: So like, no, there were no there's no bandwagon Sean.

00:36:39
Speaker 2: Tucker films out there, So like I just I just want to make that part clear, all right. So, but yeah, you've got you've got, you know, three guys in the backfield, two of whom were playing really well, at least one had one really good game. They ether been playing pretty well over a stretch. And then the third guy, who is the incumbent starter. It's just a complete mess. I'd like to think that after a couple of weeks of this, it's going to sort of shake itself out. This is just a bad week, you know, on top of having three guys and they're going to write the hot hand, they got to play the Ravens. So it's just bad all the way around. But I do want to keep an eye on usage, on situational matchups, that sort of thing, and figure out how Tampa is going to use these guys, and I would hope that within a couple of weeks we can get at least a little bit of clarity and maybe one of these guys just sort of drops out of the competition one way or another.

00:37:22
Speaker 4: That just clears things up for us.

00:37:24
Speaker 1: So I think a blind spot in my own fantasy analysis is I oftentimes will not lean into the possibility of sort of an outlier outcome existing. And I don't mean like outliers is in like the performance being an outlier.

00:37:39
Speaker 3: I mean more so from like a.

00:37:40
Speaker 1: Running back usage and how a coach, because running back usage comes down to a coaching decision at the end of the day, right, and so have I sometimes have a hard time envisioning. You know, it's very easy for me to sit here and say I think Tyrone Tracy could overtake Devin Singletary in that backfield, because it's not like Devin Singletary is like a overly special running back where the team invested a lot or.

00:38:00
Speaker 3: Anything like that.

00:38:01
Speaker 1: Right, So it's it's a lot easier for me as an analyst to be like, yo, let's buy into this dude who I think is a good player and see if something you know comes out of this.

00:38:10
Speaker 4: Right.

00:38:10
Speaker 1: Whereas when it comes to a situation like Tampa Bay, I think back to the coaching decisions that were made last year because Sean Tucker was there last year. I think back to how the coaches have talked about Rashad White, the kind of workload that he got last season, and my, my, you know, I've gotten a lot of questions then this week from people where they're like, is Rashad White gonna be the RB three in this offense? And my brain, I don't think is capable of like computing the idea of Rashad White. Like, do I think that that White is significantly better than those other guys? No, not not necessarily, Like I think that the delta between like an above average running back to even a below average running back is not like massively significant, especially when those quote unquote below average running backs are Day three guys or undrafted in Sean Tucker's case, who maybe just didn't get the opportunity because of that capital and the way that they they I mean, like we just don't see these guys get many Now. Of course they're probably not as good and that's why they're not getting the opportunities. But Sean Tucker had a heart issue. That's the reason why he didn't get drafted, right, Like, I don't think that talent was ever the biggest question mark. So I guess what I'm trying to say is like I have a hard time thinking that Rashad White would just not be involved in this offense. And I think that would be the way that that Sean Tucker is like super relevant in fantasy, like maybe a flex play. But do you think it's possible that Rashad White would be phased out of this Tampa Bay offense.

00:39:35
Speaker 4: I would be shocked if that happens, you know.

00:39:38
Speaker 2: I means, unless he's just really bad or just keeps putting the ball on the ground, I don't see him completely going away.

00:39:45
Speaker 4: So like, yeah, I just you know.

00:39:46
Speaker 2: Worst case scenario, all three of these guys continue to play well and they ride the hot hand and we're just like left trying to figure it out every week.

00:39:52
Speaker 4: But you know, I don't know.

00:39:53
Speaker 2: I think Rashad White's the guy who's for sure locked in for the rest of the year. We can have this discussion again in the offseason to see what happens.

00:40:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels like it's it's gonna be like, you know, Rashad White and Bucky Irving have like a similar split as they had before the injury to White, and then Sean Tucker digs into both of them just as his own like solo role, but maybe like five touches a game, you know, like not that that's it's unfortunate because like I said, like it's it's a really hard thing to really put together because on one hand, you can evaluate talent and say, I mean, I wouldn't be shocked if I had if I'm looking at Sean Tucker versus Rashad White as players, like I can't tell you definitively without a doubt that Rashad White is like significantly better than Sean Tucker. I don't know for sure, right and so because of that, I don't exactly know how the coaches might be thinking. But given the history and such, you know, in the way that they've used Rashad White.

00:40:48
Speaker 3: It does it would just feel it would just be a weird.

00:40:50
Speaker 1: Outcome if he just like is not involved in this offense, right, Like, it just feels weird if.

00:40:54
Speaker 4: That, Yeah, he's not he's not going away. He's gonna be there in some shape or.

00:40:58
Speaker 1: For Yeah, are there any other backups sort of across the league that you don't think are getting enough hype but should be rostered in more fantasy leagues or should be rostered everywhere.

00:41:08
Speaker 2: This might be me confirming priors, but Kamani Vidal is that I think needs some more opportunity.

00:41:14
Speaker 4: I thought he was going to have a rule. Well, here's the thing.

00:41:16
Speaker 2: I came into the season obviously like, hey, Gus Edwards is going to be the number one running back in Los Angeles. JK. Dobbins, nice story. You want to see the guy come back, but how much does he really have? And then Kamani Vidal sitting there prime to get an opportunity of one of those two guys Falters turns out, at least the first few weeks, Gus Edwards is kind of Gus Edwards And then JK. Dobbins just exploded, like it's been great to see for a guy who's had injuries the last couple of years. Who's been, you know, really just struggling to get back. You know, now Edwards is hurt. He's on ir so Vidal. It's funny. I don't know if you had the same thought I did, But he scores a touchdown on his first touch that wheel rowdy takes it to the house.

00:41:51
Speaker 4: He's a shorter, stockier guy wearing number thirty, and I'm like.

00:41:54
Speaker 2: It's Austin Eckler back again, right, you know, I think this is into the beginning of an opportunity.

00:42:01
Speaker 4: And while I do love the JK.

00:42:03
Speaker 2: Dobbins story, this is a guy who's played very little football over the last couple of years, and you just wonder whether physically he's going to kind of hit a wall at some point, you know, you know, I knock on wood. He doesn't get injured, he stays healthy, but just in terms of stamina of a seventeen game season when you haven't played that much football the last couple of years, I think is an issue. I think Vidal is gonna start to get some more opportunities. We'll see what happens when Gus Edwards gets healthy. If this is going to be another kind of muddled backfield back there. But I do think that Vidal feels like one of those guys who is ready for kind of a late season boost that you know, if you've got him on your roster, could be one of those guys that got to help you make a playoff, which and if you draft him in Bestball, could really be a big boost for your roster at the end of the season.

00:42:44
Speaker 3: I love I love that call.

00:42:46
Speaker 1: You know, I've been I've been on the vital train, you know, throughout the offseason. I like like part part of the problem that I had with all the Kamani Videl stuff was that there was a pushback because you know, day three back, they don't do anything whatever. But it was this idea that like someone would only like him because of the situation that he was in. I'm like, guys, I like him as a as a player, Like I actually think that he's a good player. This isn't just a he's on the Chargers and yet but when you can bind everything, it was like, Okay, Gus Edwards, he's maxed out at like eight targets in a season or something really really low. You know, he's not a pass catcher. JK Dobbins can't stay healthy, and then who's who's left. It's Commanie by Dell. And I think that he is a you know, he's kind of like a Jalen Warren meets DeAndre Swift kind of player. And that's really intriguing in the way that we score points in fantasy football. We want guys who are catching passes. We want guys who can be a fishing on the ground, and that's you know, I don't think that he's gonna be like a bell cow for them necessarily, but they run the ball more than any other team in the league in terms of like neutral script pass rate and such, and and the number of pass attempts they have is very low, and so they're gonna they're gonna lean on their running backs. I just you know, you look at JK. Dobbins had twenty five rush attempts last week. Like, to me, how do you not watch what Videll did and not want to probably give him a little bit more work here, even in week seven, you know, just to just to get him more involved.

00:44:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, by the way, can we revise this whole like Day three running backs thing, because running backs don't get drafted on day one, bro Right, they don't get drafted on day one anymore. So, like you know, obviously day two backs, we know those guys are gonna get opportunities day three back. It's not what it wants death sentence, right, it's just not that. It's just not that anymore. So we we, I think, need to kind of revise that idea.

00:44:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think it's also okay when you know, like like an argument against Videll also was like I think he was the twenty first running back picked in the class or something like that, Like it was a you know, he's pretty far down, but it's like, like the difference between even a late fourth in a mid fourth to a sixth uh is not overly significant. And I'm still, you know, from just like a talent evaluation standpoint, I'm still going to lean into the guy that I think is more talented in those scenarios as opposed to just saying I'm going to lean in on draft cap. We've seen so many bad fourth round running back picks and bad fifth round running back picks, and I'm like, look, guys, I'm gonna I'm gonna look and see which guys I think have the best profile as opposed to just leaning and draft capital is part of that equation to some degree. But instead of just leaning in on that on that draft capital stuff, let's move on to wide receiver. Brandon Ayuka has been struggling all season long. Do you think that he turns it around.

00:45:21
Speaker 2: I do think he picks it up, you know. I I felt like, you know, the first few weeks it was sort of his training camp, right, he did the hold in. He wasn't really there, wasn't really participating, and it took him a few weeks to kind of get up to speed.

00:45:34
Speaker 4: Here's the thing.

00:45:35
Speaker 2: Even then, he was getting open, he was getting separation. He dropped a few passes that I think normally he would have caught. I think he even admitted to something like that. I still think the usage is gonna be there, The opportunities are going to be there. I feel like this week against Kansas City is a good opportunity for him because we saw in the early part of that Super Bowl he was getting open and was making plays. The Chiefs sort of made some adjustments and kind of took him out. But I do think he's gonna get some more some more chances this week. You know, it's maybe not the season that we thought it was going to be. You know, I've been joking all off season. The forty one nine ers went out and paid their number one wide receiver. They also went out and paid Brandon Ayuk because Juwan Jennings was like bawling out for those couple of.

00:46:13
Speaker 4: Weeks early in the season.

00:46:16
Speaker 2: But I do think at some point, you see, I you kind of get back involved again because I you know, obviously Christian McCaffrey being out as a big deal for this offense, but they also need Ayuk to go out and be a star in order for them to really make a run to you know, to try to achieve those super Bowl dreams that they have. So I know it hasn't been great for anybody. I get people all the time asking me like, is this the brand that Ayuk?

00:46:37
Speaker 4: Week?

00:46:39
Speaker 2: I think you're gonna start to see him look more like the guy you spent the draft pickoff.

00:46:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, Look his peripherals, Like aren't that bad.

00:46:46
Speaker 1: It's not like things have been like it's just sometimes it's just we're still in a small sample size right now. Sometimes it's just about conversion. Like on My mail Bag episode, I talked about Amen Ross Sam Brown and how like his he is a very similar target share last year he has a very similar like targets per route run rate. The big difference is that his YAK has been pretty horrible this year. It's like literally half of what he was doing per reception last year. And sometimes it's just how it goes in a small sample, like the guy doesn't break off a big one and all of a sudden, our perception of that player, you know, is completely skewed. It's similar like Tank Dell earlier this year, where maybe he didn't look at hundred percent exactly the same as he did last year, but me remember that that play that he had where he was literally an inch away from having like a seventy yard touchdown. And if that happens right, then all of a sudden, no one's worried about Tank Dell. I kind of have that feeling with Brandon Ayuk. Do you think there's any any reason to believe that they're not being any threat out of the backfield on Christian McCaffrey could maybe negatively impact Ayuk down the field.

00:47:52
Speaker 2: I think so, I think a little bit right, because that's the guy that you know, if you're the linebackers are the safeties you have to keep an eye on, and that certainly distracts it enough for to get down the field. I mean, Jordan Mason has done a great job running the football, but obviously not the same level of pass catcher that McCaffrey is. So I definitely think there's an issue there. But I still think, look, Kyle Shanahan is too smart of an offensive guy to not figure out some ways to get the ball to eye you.

00:48:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a great point, is that, like we gotta we got to lean in on the actual good coordinators that are out there, you know that that can scheme these guys up. Another player who is getting a lot of of of talk this week is Jonathan Brooks. It sounds like he didn't practice today, this is on Thursday or when we're recording this, but you know, things are trending in the right direction just generally, and that you know he's he's uh, you know, has his window open now to return to action. But Tuba Hubbard is playing out of his mind. And so do you think that Brooks could have a strong bell cow role at some point this season or are you anticipating this just being a split backfield.

00:48:54
Speaker 4: Yeah, not anymore.

00:48:55
Speaker 2: Before the season, I really did believe that is once he got healthy, you know, give him a couple of weeks to sort of ramp up, and eventually he was going to surpass Cuba Hubbard and kind of be that guy in Carolina. Not now, not the way Hubbard is playing it. Just it seems it seems silly if you're the Panthers and you sort of move him out of that role, right. I mean, I know part of the move to bring in Andy Dalton one was to not just be awful, but also to give you a fair chance to evaluate other guys on the roster. And I do think Brooks is going to get that chance. He's going to get his touches. But I think you're also getting to see a lot of what Cuba Hubbard is. And it was not a fluke that he made Miles Sanders irrelevant last year, and he's made him even more irrelevant this year. So I think it's gonna be a hard situation for Brooks to just walk in and immediately take things over. I also think that's sort of why they've been slow walking this with Brooks coming back so far this season, So it was nice to see him get on the practice field earlier in the week. You mentioned that expected to practice on Thursday, so we'll kind of see where we are. They also have that twenty one day window, right, so they've got three weeks, and I would think at this point, with Hubbard playing as well as he is and the Panthers, let's be honest, not expected to do anything in terms of a postseason push, you were not necessarily in a rush to get Jonathan Brooks back out there. So I think that the dream of him being a bell cow in twenty twenty four is probably dying slowly.

00:50:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would agree in like in terms of like the median outcome, like's it's most likely that we're gonna see a split backfield at least to some degree.

00:50:22
Speaker 3: My here here's my let me know.

00:50:23
Speaker 1: If you think this is a stupid, stupid way of thinking about this, this is my optimistics Jonathan Brook's optimism side. Okay, the optimistic side would be chupa Hubbard. You know, this is a rebuilding team. They're gonna want to evaluate their guys. They're gonna want to see what they're all about late in the season. I'm not saying like week nine, week ten, I'm talking like week thirteen, week fourteen, Like as we get into like the fantasy playoffs late in the season, do you think there's a chance, if we want to think favorably and optimistically about Jonathan Brooks, do you think there's a chance that they look at Trueba Hubbard and they say, he's a free agent next year. This is the last year of his rookie contract. We got to see what we have in Jonathan Brooks, so let's ride him out. Or do you think that coaches just don't think that way.

00:51:05
Speaker 2: I think front offices think that way. I think, you know, I think owners feel that way. I don't know that coaches feel that way, you know, And like if you are you know, if you're on the sideline there, you're Dave Canalis and you're looking at this team and you're looking at Chuba Hubber and you're like, this, dude, gives us a chance to win week in and week out. I mean you talked about earlier, right that running back usage is sort of a coach decision and who you want on the field, And so I think I think Dave Canalis may look at this and say, hey, look man Chuba Hubber gives us a chance to win. Now, he might get a tap on the shoulder from you know, the folks up above in the booth and say, hey man, we got to get we got to get the mookie in there a little bit. So, I mean, I don't I don't think it's a completely ridiculous idea. It's just a matter of how much leash they're giving Dave Canalis to sort of make these decisions late in the year.

00:51:47
Speaker 4: But all of my Jonathan Brooks best ball shares would certainly love for your idea to be the to be the truth.

00:51:54
Speaker 3: Same same it was, Yeah, like, I don't think that.

00:51:56
Speaker 1: And I had this conversation with some folks on discord this week in the late Round Fantasy Football discord where you know, it was it was a take of, you know, somewhat of a hindsight take from someone that was just like, you know, we shouldn't have been drafting Jonathan Brooks in the first place, Like this was really stupid to be going after Brooks.

00:52:11
Speaker 3: And I'm like, look, I understand that.

00:52:13
Speaker 1: I think though fantasy football is about purely upside and about like playing into that, uh, you know, to a pretty intense degree. And if we're looking at a player like Brooks, who for for all intents and purposes, is a really good prospect like I you know, he looked good for with my stuff, to me, he was the clear RB one in this class. If he is the clear RB one in this class, if he is a you know, rated and graded as a really good prospect. Uh And at the time in August, we didn't know how long exactly he was going to be out for, Like there were some people who thought that he could play even before that I r stin and and you know, before week four. And so to me, betting on that in terms of drafting that player, I don't think was horrible, horrible process. And I fear here's my fear, is that we then use something like this against a player in the future where that then doesn't happen, because again I'll go back to like Todd Gurley. Todd Gurley toward his ACL his final year of college at almost an identical time that Jonathan Brooks did. And Todd Gurley was a league winning player his rookie season in fantasy football like he was, and it was in a terrible environment because it was that Jeff Fisher year before they finally I mean, yeah, you were out there and yeah, you know it was before they they really turned everything around and get Sean mcvayh and stuff. But he's still, like Todd Gurley was still very good that rookie season. And so I don't want to use like I understand that this is probably leaning towards like an l you know, just in terms of like drafting and where we draft him all that stuff, like that's fine, that's gonna happen in fantasy football. I'm thinking more so about like how we can use this information in the future, And like, do you think, even in hindsight, like it was bad process to be drafting Jonathan Brooks, you know, to our redraft teams the way that we were.

00:53:52
Speaker 4: No, I don't think so.

00:53:53
Speaker 2: I mean, I think the process was right, but you know, there were factors that we could not control. You mentioned that we thought he was going to be back earlier, uh than he would. We didn't anticipate Chuba Hubbard play as well as he did as he has been. Right, there were there were unknowns in that whole thing, and some of those unknowns have turned out the opposite of what we thought.

00:54:11
Speaker 4: They would be.

00:54:11
Speaker 2: And so No, I don't think the process was bad. I just think that, you know, some of the uncontrollables didn't go our way.

00:54:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, one more, one more player related take. I want to I want to get your your take on Anthony Richardson. No one knows what to do with Anthony richards Do you have Do you have a feel of what people should do with Anthony Richardson?

00:54:29
Speaker 2: Uh, I mean I think I think I think he's a by candidate. I mean I think you should you can be trying to go out and get him, mostly because the manager who has him is probably a little bit nervous about it right now. The the downsides we've seen from Anthony Richardson or what we thought they would be right, that he had a lot of room to grow as a passer. He was inconsistent in that regard, but we knew what the rushing upside would be. Now. The thing that's frustrated me, uh, he hasn't really run maybe as much as he did last year. He has not had the goal line opportunities. I think the wild card in this was that last year he and John Than Taylor didn't overlap. I remember Taylor had the holdout that he had the high ankle spray and it took him a few weeks, and by the time he got on the field, Richardson was out for the year with the shoulder injury. So now we're sort of seeing what life is like with them together, and they're using Taylor as their goal line back and not Richardson so much, so that's a frustration. I think they'll figure sort of this thing out, understanding that Richardson on the field is bad for the wide receivers, but it's good for anybody who has Richardson in their lineup. And I think, you know, if you're worried about him, I think you hold him. If you're looking to get him and somebody's nervous about him, I think you're trying to acquire him.

00:55:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's hard to argue that there are other quarterbacks sort of in his like market tier, like where people view him, that have as much upside as him, right Like, like he he's got to have more upside than like most of the pocket passers that you would be trading for him, you know, or if you can, like do like Gino Smith plus to get him, you know, I don't think that like doing something like that would be a horrible idea. So I think you're probably right that it's more of a bid because the sentiment's just so low right now with Anthony Richardson overall all right, before I let you go, give me a buy candidate and a Cell candidate. Do you think it's fairly obvious right now?

00:56:08
Speaker 2: My I think my cell candidate is way more obvious than my buy candidate. My Cell candidates. Travis Etn it is. It's not going well for him in Jacksonville. So so last week he had that play that rically looked like a fumble. They reviewed it, they called it an incomplete pass. But also right after that, Travis Etn turned up with a hamstring injury. You know, maybe he was injured. I have no idea. It also just seemed really convenient based on what had previously happened throwing the fact that Tank Bigsby is playing really, really well and the Jaguars schedule is not particularly friendly, the fact that they are always finding themselves playing from behind means are going to be very very pass heavy. Evan Ingram is back to take away a lot of those short targets as well. Brian Thomas Junior has been a really nice player so far this season. There's just a lot of places to go with the football. You know, Trevor Lawrence not really the prince who was promised the way we thought he was going to be traves etn And it sucks because you probably spent a fairly high draft pick on him, but all the arrows are pointing in the wrong direction for him right now. I think it's probably time to move on. My bi candidate, though, is to Mario Douglas.

00:57:15
Speaker 4: And I.

00:57:18
Speaker 2: Was one of the people I know a lot of us were trying to make Jalen Polk a thing, and at some point maybe it does happen for him.

00:57:25
Speaker 4: But I think at some point.

00:57:26
Speaker 2: We got to stop overlooking the Mario Douglas because last year he was their number one wide receiver. It was weird to go back and look because I think it was Zeke that actually had the most receptions for New England, but Douglas had the most receiving yards on that team. And again this year he is the most targeted player in that offense. And we saw Drake may come in last week and not miss a beat and that was a nine target I think for Douglas six catches a pretty nice game for him. I think this week is another good matchup for him against Jacksonville over there in London. So I mean on a team that I get it, The Patriots offense is not very sexy. We don't get very excited about it. But he is the number one receiver on a team that's probably gonna have to throw the football a lot. And so you know, he's not a guy you plug in. You know, he's not a plug and play or set and forget sort of guy. But I think he's a guy that pays dividends down the stretch, a guy who's getting a lot of targets and a team that's gonna have to throw the football a lot. I think he's worth picking up right now.

00:58:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm intrigued by like, like, you know, I don't know if this is actually like a sticky thing or if it's something that that actually matters. But if you go back to like Drake Man in college, his best season was with Josh Downs out of the slot, and maybe this is a Josh Downs, you know type situation. Josh Downs is better than than Damario Douglas. Don't get me wrong, but you know, Douglas out of the slot like he's he's been. You know, I was into him this year from a draft perspective. I even made one of my bold predictions that he would catch more passes than George Pickens this year, which which I don't even I haven't looked at that like where that stands, But I would imagine it's actually not far off right now, just because of how run heavy the Steelers have been and how like not overly efficient George Picks has been.

00:59:00
Speaker 3: But regardless of all of that, like, I do think.

00:59:03
Speaker 1: That there is some intrigue that there could just be a natural connection of Drake may you know, to to Mario Douglas based on how he's approached the slot in the past.

00:59:11
Speaker 3: It might also be nothing. It might not be that big of a deal.

00:59:14
Speaker 1: I will say this though, I had to Mario Douglas on a lot of teams that I ended up dropping after the first couple of weeks.

00:59:19
Speaker 3: And that's a little bit tilting that I that I had had Douglas and some teams and now I just don't have him.

00:59:24
Speaker 4: I mean, look, that's how I feel about the money.

00:59:25
Speaker 2: But now because I had him on a lot of teams, and then like I had injuries, I had guys who just exactly were stinking, so I just had to make some moves and I dropped him. By the way, to your point, George Pickens right now with twenty six catches to Mario Douglas at twenty four.

00:59:37
Speaker 3: Let's go, it can happen.

00:59:41
Speaker 1: Trending in the right direction. Although although with Russ starting maybe things changed for Pickens a little bit.

00:59:46
Speaker 4: We'll see, we'll see.

00:59:47
Speaker 3: But man, it was.

00:59:48
Speaker 1: It was great to chop it up. I wish we could do it more often. But let everyone know where they can find you and all the stuff you're working on.

00:59:54
Speaker 4: Absolutely, you know.

00:59:55
Speaker 2: The main gig is at NFL Network, NFL Media, whatever you want to call it. On NFL Fantasy Live, we air five days a week six pm Eastern. Also doing the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, which in its various forms should show up in your feed five days a week, so just like and subscribe there and it'll show up in your podcast feed. Also fortunate to do some stuff with the guys over at Fantasy Life. They have been great. I do a show on Sirius XM on Saturday mornings that airs from ten to noon Eastern, and then the Fantasy Live Show which streams with Kendall Vealezuela and Ian Hardts, who are a lot of fun to work with.

01:00:29
Speaker 4: That pops up.

01:00:30
Speaker 2: I think if you have an lgt V, I think it's on the LG channel that streams at maybe my time's right eleven Eastern. So many things, so many things. But just find me on Twitter at Marcus G.

01:00:41
Speaker 4: M A R C A s G. That's kind of the clearing house for all the stuff I'm doing.

01:00:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're man.

01:00:45
Speaker 1: You work with great people too, like like all that folks. Yeah, Fantasy life is great. You know you got you got me.

01:00:50
Speaker 3: Florio's okay, Yeah then yeah, he's fine, he's fine.

01:00:55
Speaker 2: He had he had he had the kind of some beef with the other Mike Floria going on on Twitter that you know, I stand with Michael F.

01:01:03
Speaker 4: Florio. I will always I will always side with my guy.

01:01:06
Speaker 3: Yes, it is hilarious.

01:01:07
Speaker 1: It's like, that's why I feel fortunate that my last name is so unique, because I'm never gonna have to run into something like that, thank God, thank God. Anyway, you can find all my stuff over on lateround dot com. Make sure you subscribe to the newsletter of the podcast. You can check out the Patreon and make sure you take advantage of the underdog offer. But thanks again, Marcus really appreciate your time, and everyone else, thank you and thank you for tuning in.