385 | How to Talk to Kids About Parent Meetings and Notes in CCPT

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi,

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I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get

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a master class in child-centered play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode,

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I'm answering a question from Ashley.

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Well,

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I guess technically it's two questions,

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but they're related.

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So,

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The,

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the overarching theme

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of Ashley's questions are

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how you talk to clients

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about the fact that you meet with parents,

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which is something that I don't think I've really ever intentionally covered.

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So I'm very grateful for that question.

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And then what do you say when they ask

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about the notes that you write down during sessions?

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So basically communicating important information to children

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to preserve relationship.

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To establish trust and maintain it.

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And to ensure that we're clear and we provide age-appropriate truth.

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So,

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really helpful.

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I'm glad,

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Ashley,

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for the

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opportunity to answer these.

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I think first and foremost,

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the most helpful process when we think about

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talking to kids about the fact that we meet with parents

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is when we sit down for that initial first session,

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we cover expectations and information with them.

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That's the only time that we really technically have,

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quote,

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an agenda,

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and it's just for the first few minutes,

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and we establish

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all of the information that they need to

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know and the expectations about moving forward.

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So,

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some of the things that I cover in that

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introductory dialogue when the child first comes in.

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Every week we're gonna play for 50 minutes.

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I'm gonna see you every Tuesday at 3.

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We're going to get a snack at the end if you choose.

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You're in charge when you're here.

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You get to play with all the toys in most of the ways that you want.

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You'll see that I take notes.

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I'll get to that in a second.

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And every 5 sessions that I play with you.

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I meet with mom and dad or whoever

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the relevant caregiver is.

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So that they can share with me

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information and let me know how things have been going

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and that they can ask me questions

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and I can give them tips on how to interact with you

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in an,

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in an appropriate way.

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OK,

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so now what I've done is

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I've given them a big picture

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of all the things that they need to know.

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I do also then talk about confidentiality.

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So,

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that's the final thing that I discussed with them

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before we move into house true person kinetic family drawings.

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I think one of the most helpful things that we can

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put into our process.

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is just setting really clear expectations

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and we only have the first week to do that

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because

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as soon as the child kind of knows the lay of the

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land and they know what to expect and they're ready to go,

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we're never in charge again.

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But that first session

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is that transition from

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they're never in charge to someone saying that you get to be the boss.

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They never get to make choices and someone's returning responsibility to them,

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and they unilaterally are making choices.

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They never have time that's just

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for themselves for an hour to play,

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and they're getting this opportunity.

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They've never met you before.

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They've never been in the playroom before.

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It's a one hour window

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to really kind of set the stage

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for what's to come.

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So I,

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I have my script memorized at this point,

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but in the early stages,

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I actually kind of had like a bullet pointed script,

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so I remembered everything that I needed to share.

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And the purpose of that is

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you can always fall back on it.

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In other words,

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the child's not going to remember every single thing that you said

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because

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They're looking around the playroom and they're like,

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Oh,

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there's Nerf guns here,

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and

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what's that big red triangular thing?

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And,

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oh man,

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handcuffs.

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Oh,

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I wonder if I could handcuff her.

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Probably not.

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I mean,

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she says I can do whatever I want,

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but like,

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what's the likelihood she's going to let me handcuff her?

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So,

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their brains are going 1 mile a minute.

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They're investigating,

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they're exploring,

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they're looking around,

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and they're intrigued and they want to play.

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So what you share is probably not going to all connect and

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every bit of it won't be remembered.

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But if anything comes up in the future,

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You say,

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remember the very first time that I met with you,

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I told you,

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and you reiterate what

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you've already communicated.

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That preserves

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the stability and the predictability

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of

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the process,

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and it preserves relationship.

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If you didn't say it

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and you don't bring it up

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till the 8th week or the 14th week,

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it's a lot harder

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to help the child feel settled.

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In what's going on

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So

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I

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make sure

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that I tell them first session,

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every 5 sessions that I play with you,

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I meet with your parents to talk for an hour.

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So,

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that's

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the way that I establish it from the get-go.

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And then

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when I schedule a parent consult with

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the parents,

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either before I meet with the parents or after I meet with the parents,

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I let the child know.

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I wonder if you know that I'm meeting with mom and dad this week.

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I wonder if Mom and Dad told you that we met on Friday.

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And what you're doing there

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is establishing and preserving rapport

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and bond and trust,

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because what you don't want is for them to go,

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wait,

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you met with mom?

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Wait,

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what'd you talk about?

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Why?

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What did,

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what did they say?

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Am I,

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they get panicked

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when

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they didn't feel like they were in the know.

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So you just declare it.

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I met with mom and dad on Friday or I'm going to meet with mom and dad on Friday.

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And then

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if they have follow-up questions,

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which sometimes they don't,

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sometimes they do.

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So sometimes they go,

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OK.

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And you know that they understood from the beginning what the purpose of that is.

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If they have questions,

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well,

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you're not going to tell them that I

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hit you with a sword,

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are you?

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Well,

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you're,

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you can't tell them what I said in here,

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right?

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Well,

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what are you going to say?

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Like,

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are they going to talk about school or,

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and you know exactly how that child feels based on the questions that they ask,

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by the way.

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That's a really helpful insight into their experience.

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But if they have follow-up questions,

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you answer them truthfully

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and age appropriately.

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Like,

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oh,

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you're wondering if I'm going to tell them,

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but you know that I'm not allowed to tell anyone what you do in here.

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Oh,

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you're curious if mom's gonna talk about school,

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but I'm not sure what mom's gonna talk about.

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You give age-appropriate truth.

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And that preserves relationship.

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OK,

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so now let's transition to notes.

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That is actually one of the things that I

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share when I go over all of those expectations.

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So,

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as I was kind of hitting highlights and I said notes is one of them,

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so this is something that I share in that initial

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5 or so minutes.

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And

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I say,

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you will notice that I take notes when you're in here.

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I play with a lot of kids and it's

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hard for my brain to remember everything that happens.

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So I just write down what we're doing together and what's happening when we play

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so that I don't have to remember so much.

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That's the short answer that we give to kids about why we write stuff down.

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Then I add in addition to that.

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It's never anything bad.

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You can always look to see what I've written.

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You can always ask me what I've written.

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No one's ever going to see these except for me.

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OK,

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so now I've established not only why I'm writing notes,

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but what happens with the notes,

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and there's no secret.

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In other words,

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if I write down symbolic play,

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if I write down a theme,

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if I write down something the child said or did,

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if I write down what game we played,

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if I write down

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the nature of the play,

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If this,

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if the kid says,

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what did you just write down?

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That were playing cops and robbers.

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The kid's going to be like,

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oh yeah,

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we are playing cops and robbers.

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What's that word right there?

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Power and control.

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What did you write that down for?

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Because you have all the power and all the control right now.

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You're

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always able to explain what you've written.

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We never have to be concerned that a child's going to see what we've written

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and be angry or offended or

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think that we're somehow saying something negative about them.

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We're writing down what's happening in session.

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It's an observation.

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It's a thought,

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it's a theme,

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it's symbolic.

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There's something relevant

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to what the child's work

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is.

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That's evident in the play,

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and if we document that,

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as we should be.

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The child isn't going to be surprised or caught off guard

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that you wrote down that

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they.

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Engaging in competence play.

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Now,

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a lot of kids won't even know what that means.

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So they'll say,

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what is that word?

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Competence.

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Oh,

281
00:08:58,770 --> 00:08:59,719
what does that mean?

282
00:09:00,099 --> 00:09:02,880
It means that you're proving all the things that you can do.

283
00:09:04,109 --> 00:09:06,919
And if they've been trying to shoot at the target for 10 minutes

284
00:09:07,030 --> 00:09:09,650
and you say you're proving all the things that you can do,

285
00:09:09,830 --> 00:09:10,229
oh yeah,

286
00:09:10,340 --> 00:09:10,690
I am.

287
00:09:12,210 --> 00:09:12,429
No,

288
00:09:12,530 --> 00:09:13,530
that was thematic.

289
00:09:14,659 --> 00:09:16,150
That was an identified theme.

290
00:09:17,489 --> 00:09:19,989
We don't have to caution or safeguard

291
00:09:20,690 --> 00:09:22,270
because a child is

292
00:09:22,409 --> 00:09:24,630
playing and is right in the midst of it as well.

293
00:09:26,059 --> 00:09:26,840
So,

294
00:09:27,419 --> 00:09:28,419
kids can always look,

295
00:09:28,580 --> 00:09:29,799
kids can always ask,

296
00:09:30,020 --> 00:09:32,640
but I do set those expectations early on.

297
00:09:33,369 --> 00:09:33,859
That

298
00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:35,169
it's never anything bad.

299
00:09:35,250 --> 00:09:36,489
They go in a locked cabinet.

300
00:09:36,570 --> 00:09:38,789
No one is able to see them except for me,

301
00:09:39,169 --> 00:09:40,590
and it's just so that I

302
00:09:41,169 --> 00:09:43,190
don't have to remember so many things.

303
00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:45,770
And if you ask me 5 weeks from now,

304
00:09:45,849 --> 00:09:48,169
what did I play with the first time that I came?

305
00:09:49,010 --> 00:09:52,169
I'll be able to look back and I'll be able to tell you what you played with,

306
00:09:52,250 --> 00:09:54,510
but I might not remember that if I didn't write it down.

307
00:09:56,010 --> 00:09:58,469
You give simple truthful explanations,

308
00:09:58,969 --> 00:10:00,869
and a child is totally OK with it.

309
00:10:01,169 --> 00:10:02,789
If you seem dodgy,

310
00:10:03,049 --> 00:10:04,669
if you seem unsure,

311
00:10:04,890 --> 00:10:06,690
if you seem like you're hiding something,

312
00:10:06,909 --> 00:10:08,789
if you seem confused yourself,

313
00:10:09,010 --> 00:10:11,890
if you seem embarrassed that they're asking,

314
00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:13,000
if you seem nervous,

315
00:10:13,090 --> 00:10:15,030
if you seem anything other than

316
00:10:16,210 --> 00:10:18,469
I'm just writing stuff down that we do together.

317
00:10:19,950 --> 00:10:21,570
They sense it and they know it.

318
00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:24,219
So part of this is also

319
00:10:24,479 --> 00:10:27,659
the neutrality and the factual nature

320
00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:29,159
of your presentation.

321
00:10:30,099 --> 00:10:31,250
What did you just write down?

322
00:10:34,059 --> 00:10:35,460
That you're putting stuff in the sand.

323
00:10:37,909 --> 00:10:39,330
It has to be truth.

324
00:10:39,909 --> 00:10:40,710
And when it is,

325
00:10:40,789 --> 00:10:43,219
a kid is relieved and they stop asking.

326
00:10:43,510 --> 00:10:45,210
They don't continue to pursue,

327
00:10:45,669 --> 00:10:46,200
what are you doing?

328
00:10:46,309 --> 00:10:47,030
What did you write down?

329
00:10:47,109 --> 00:10:47,820
Who's going to see that?

330
00:10:47,869 --> 00:10:48,789
Am I going to get in trouble?

331
00:10:48,869 --> 00:10:49,950
Are you going to show my mom?

332
00:10:50,390 --> 00:10:53,729
They stop when you give the same kind of answer every single time.

333
00:10:54,650 --> 00:10:56,799
You know no one's allowed to see these notes.

334
00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:58,419
They're just for me.

335
00:10:58,859 --> 00:11:01,760
You know you can always ask what's on here or read it yourself.

336
00:11:03,090 --> 00:11:04,570
You know there's nothing bad on here.

337
00:11:04,650 --> 00:11:06,190
It's just what we do together.

338
00:11:06,729 --> 00:11:09,630
You reassure and then they eventually are OK with it.

339
00:11:09,989 --> 00:11:10,130
Now,

340
00:11:10,169 --> 00:11:10,890
a lot of kids,

341
00:11:11,010 --> 00:11:11,489
most kids,

342
00:11:11,530 --> 00:11:11,909
in fact,

343
00:11:12,289 --> 00:11:14,030
are never going to ask you about your notes.

344
00:11:14,650 --> 00:11:15,729
That's another strategy,

345
00:11:15,830 --> 00:11:16,260
by the way,

346
00:11:16,450 --> 00:11:17,150
related aside,

347
00:11:17,409 --> 00:11:18,809
write on construction paper.

348
00:11:19,859 --> 00:11:20,010
Oh,

349
00:11:20,299 --> 00:11:20,869
international folks,

350
00:11:20,979 --> 00:11:21,179
sorry,

351
00:11:21,260 --> 00:11:23,039
I realized y'all have no idea what that is.

352
00:11:23,460 --> 00:11:25,599
Thick colored paper for crafts.

353
00:11:26,770 --> 00:11:29,200
You could get colored printer paper for that matter.

354
00:11:29,609 --> 00:11:31,059
If it doesn't look official,

355
00:11:31,140 --> 00:11:32,320
it's not important.

356
00:11:33,479 --> 00:11:37,200
So if you're writing on pink paper or green paper or purple paper,

357
00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:42,419
a child is likely not going to be concerned about what's going to happen with it.

358
00:11:43,429 --> 00:11:43,830
So,

359
00:11:43,869 --> 00:11:45,210
mix in colored paper

360
00:11:45,799 --> 00:11:46,669
as you take notes.

361
00:11:46,789 --> 00:11:47,890
Don't do it on

362
00:11:48,309 --> 00:11:49,010
lined paper.

363
00:11:49,109 --> 00:11:50,780
Don't do it in a spiral notebook.

364
00:11:51,020 --> 00:11:52,830
Don't do it on a form.

365
00:11:53,070 --> 00:11:55,530
Don't do it on something that looks important or official.

366
00:11:55,950 --> 00:11:56,950
That scares kids.

367
00:11:57,929 --> 00:11:59,109
Half the time I write with,

368
00:11:59,460 --> 00:11:59,909
uh,

369
00:11:59,929 --> 00:12:00,809
I was gonna say crayons,

370
00:12:00,849 --> 00:12:01,440
but that's not what I meant.

371
00:12:01,489 --> 00:12:03,469
I half the time I write with colored pencils.

372
00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:05,010
Because

373
00:12:05,390 --> 00:12:08,380
if you're writing with a colored pencil on a construction paper.

374
00:12:09,309 --> 00:12:12,690
It really is not going to go anywhere and it's not going to do anything

375
00:12:12,989 --> 00:12:14,400
that the child would be concerned about.

376
00:12:15,619 --> 00:12:15,929
So,

377
00:12:16,059 --> 00:12:16,739
be factual,

378
00:12:16,849 --> 00:12:17,460
be truthful,

379
00:12:17,539 --> 00:12:18,380
be neutral,

380
00:12:18,890 --> 00:12:20,039
set expectations,

381
00:12:20,659 --> 00:12:21,739
answer questions.

382
00:12:22,049 --> 00:12:23,460
That's how you preserve a relationship.

383
00:12:23,739 --> 00:12:23,820
So,

384
00:12:23,859 --> 00:12:24,140
Ashley,

385
00:12:24,219 --> 00:12:25,219
thank you so much for the question.

386
00:12:25,299 --> 00:12:26,919
I hope that that was helpful for everybody.

387
00:12:27,419 --> 00:12:28,739
And I love y'all.

388
00:12:28,820 --> 00:12:30,320
I look forward to seeing you

389
00:12:30,859 --> 00:12:32,099
at some point in the future.

390
00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:32,580
I hope,

391
00:12:32,659 --> 00:12:34,520
I look forward to talking with you again soon,

392
00:12:34,900 --> 00:12:36,000
and we will

393
00:12:36,219 --> 00:12:36,880
meet again.

394
00:12:37,059 --> 00:12:37,340
Bye.

395
00:12:38,419 --> 00:12:42,219
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.

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00:12:42,469 --> 00:12:44,390
For more episodes and resources,

397
00:12:44,549 --> 00:12:49,309
please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.