Ssssensational Benefits of Venom: Bushmaster Snake

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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Rick Schwartz.

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Speaker 2: What is the world? Marco went?

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Amazing Wildlife, where we explore unique stories of wildlife from around the world and uncover fascinating animal facts. This podcast is a production of iHeartRadio and San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance, in international nonprofit conservation organization which oversees the San Diego Zoo and Safari Park.

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Speaker 2: In the last episode, we explored our curiosity and found out that something as small as a little mouse is so very important for the stability of the coastal ecosystem that we all share here in the Southwest.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and Marco, I have to admit, when we told people we were doing an episode on a mouse, some people didn't think it was a species that our audience would be interested in. I know, but guess what what, Well, even though most people assume they don't like rodents, everybody loved the Pacific pocket mouse.

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Speaker 2: That's awesome news. I guess it goes to say you that the more you get to know and understand species, the more likely you are to really appreciate them exactly.

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Speaker 1: And I think we should do it again.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, another episode about a mouse.

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Speaker 1: No, Marco Let's do another episode about a completely different species that is something ignored, misunderstood, and if I'm being honest, and sometimes gives people the hebgb's.

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Speaker 2: Ooh okay, what do you have in minded monte?

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Speaker 1: Okay? I want to preface this with the fact that I recently learned that this species and others related to it, may hold the secret for medical advancements from chronic pain to hypertension and other heart diseases, to diabetes and possibly even more.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, okay, So let me think. Is this like the study about why elephants are resistant to cancer due to the genetics?

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Speaker 1: Well kind of, but not really. But that doesn't actually give me another idea for an episode. The species I'm thinking of is a venomous reptile that uses its venom to capture its prey. And as much as being a venomous animal makes a lot of people not like them, it's that very venom that could end up helping a lot of humans.

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Speaker 2: Oh right, okay, I've heard about this. There are all sorts of venomous animals like fish, snails, lizards, and snakes that scientists are studying to better understand what the venom is made of and that research is leading to all kinds of discoveries that are advancing.

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Speaker 1: Medical care exactly.

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Speaker 2: So what species do you have in mind?

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking of one of the larger venomous snakes from our Amazonia conservation hub, the South American bush master get bath.

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Speaker 2: How cool. I can't wait to learn about these guys.

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Speaker 1: Same here, and thankfully we have someone who has not only spent a lot of time with them here at the San Diego Zoo, but he has also spent a lot of time out in the wild looking for them.

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Speaker 3: I am Bret Baldwin, the Associate Curator of Herpetology and Ichthyology.

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Speaker 1: Oh hold up there, Brett. For those listening that may not know what is herpetology and ichthyology.

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Speaker 3: Herpetology is the study of reptiles and amphibians. Ichthyology is fish the study of fish. So here it's the San Diego Zoo. We have a large number of reptiles and amphibians to care for and also a good number of fish, so we are responsible for the aquatic side of things too.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that actually covers a lot of species. When you think about it, Between reptiles, amphibians and fish, you pretty much have the whole world covered.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, come to think of it, I'm pretty sure you could find at least one of those in each of the conservation hubs that we work in. But today we're focused on the Amazonia Hub and specifically the reptile known as the bush master. Brett. I know you love working with reptiles, and I'd love to have you give us an introduction to the bushmaster.

00:03:43
Speaker 3: So the bushmaster is the scientific name is the Kisis Moudha for that species of South American bush master. There's about five species of Lakisas of a bush master. We have two here, the black headed bushmaster which is from Costa Rica, and then the South American bush master that has a pretty big range in South America, and the other three species that are there on the Atlantic side of the coast. And they're very secretive. For one thing, there's not a lot known about them as far as in the wild. There's been studies specifically with the South American bush master about their habits in the wild, but they're very secretive. And as for being such a large snake, as they are the largest venomous snake in the Americas, that is, of all the viperiod snakes from Canada down through Argentina. These are the largest of the venomous snakes. They can get up to seven eight feet long. They have very large fangs, one of the longest fangs of any of the venomous species of snakes. Another unusual thing with bush masters in the Americas, the vipers in the Americas is they lay eggs, which is really unusual in that the rest of the viperiod snakes like rattle snakes that people are familiar with, copperheads, cotton mouse, they are libraries. They don't lay eggs with shells. So there's one other species in South America known to lay eggs, but this is very significant thing and it's very unusual.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's interesting about the eggs. Do we know why that is?

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Speaker 3: There is something? Well, they do stay with their eggs. They use burrows like roadent burrows that are fairly deep, and they will lay their eggs in there and the females will stay with them and protect them and they take about seventy two days to incubate.

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Speaker 2: It sounds like a really good survival strategy to protect the eggs like that. Brett, I want to go back to what you said about the fangs. You mentioned that they have very large fangs. Is there a reason for that, like, does it have to do with what their prey is specifically, or more about how they hunt.

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Speaker 3: They like marsupials South America marsupials, Latin American marsupials, rodents, large rodents, rats are pretty common in their diet. But again those are the some of the known species of prey that they eat in the wild. I'm sure they eat other warm blooded prey too that they might happen upon. They're an ambush predator, so they're not actively hunting. They find a spot and they sit and they wait for prey to come by, which is pretty common for by period snakes, our rittal snakes in the US also our ambush predators. They find a spot and they sit and they wait. They have the heat pits that they use for sensing warm buttered prey, which is they can use at night so they don't need to see anything. So that is something that's different as being an apex predator, which they are one of the aprex predators in Latin America, and that they're very large reptile predator jaguars, very large predator, the crocodilians that they're there are also up there too.

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Speaker 1: Well wait, wait, wait, wait, Brett, your answer about the fangs just made for more questions. I want to ask more about the apex predator, but I also want you to clarify what are the heat pits and how are they helpful.

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Speaker 3: So one of the things that I love about venomous snakes is that evolutionarily, it is just incredible that they have this venom. So heat pits is another thing, another aspect and an attribute that is just fascinating to me that they have evolved that helps them to acquire prey or to detect warm blooded animals. It doesn't have to be prey. You might detect a predator of some person walking by. They sense it, they'll know they can see it. It's like an infrared sensor between the eye and the end of their nose or the two narres that they have, which you would call a nose, but they're called narres, one on each side, and so they're very large, so that if you were to see one close up, you would think it's a nose opening, but it's really not. It's a heat pit. And it doesn't occur on all viperiod snakes. So we often say, New World vibers have these pits and they haven't evolved in certain places like Europe and Africa, when those vipers don't have those pits.

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Speaker 2: That's so incredible to think that they have this extra sense to help them perceive the world around them, picking up the heat that other animals' bodies give off, and that their brain can take this information in like how we would see heat through an infrared camera. Sounds like a real life superpowered at me move that's side spider.

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Speaker 1: Man, I know exactly. Can you imagine that, Marco? I think it would be pretty cool to be able to have that added sense of seeing heat signatures of other animals like that so amazing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, I mean that would be so useful, especially when playing hide and seek or going out for a night hike.

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Speaker 1: Exactly. Okay, Okay, we got a little distracted thinking about how cool it would be to have bushmaster adaptations, but I want to go back to the topic of apex predator what it means.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, we know that other species like the harpie eagle or the jaguar are considered apex predators. They all eat a variety of prey, but no other species really hunts them right.

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Speaker 1: So essentially they are top of the food chain, so they.

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Speaker 3: Eat larger mammal prey. And another thing that's unique with them because they do take in larger prey, is that they're one of the only species known of a vibrant to strike at their prey and hang on to it, Because bridle snakes will strike quickly and release, and then they'll follow the prairie scent to find it. It's very effective way to acquire prey as to not be injured. It happens at the eighth of a second it's going and there don't risks being chewed on or bitten or scratched. But with the bushmasters, they're taking a strike at a large prey item that could injure them, but it also might run away before it passes, and then something else might find it and take off with it, so that's a possibility. But with a bushmaster, they have long things, so they cannot only inject the venom deep. They can hang on better, and so underneath their eyes are some specialized scales that come up in kind of as pseudo protectors of them lives. So if there's something flailing around in their mouth, trying to bite them. Their eyes are protected, but they do hang on to their prey. Therefore, those eye protectors are important.

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Speaker 1: WHOA, you mentioned the long fangs before, but what is this eye protection scale?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I mean, is it like the nick ditating membrane or second pair of eyelids that eagles or crocodiles have or is it something different.

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Speaker 3: It's a scale, So you wouldn't really notice this scale until you saw it in action. Is when the snake has grabbed its prey item and is biting down and the flex of the muscle will pull the scale up over the eye.

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Speaker 1: Seriously, that is such a cool adaptation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so not really an eyelid or a niicck ditating membrane, but a scale that comes up to protect the eye in the similar way that an eyelid does. Mind blode. That is so wicked.

00:11:01
Speaker 1: I know exactly what you mean. Oh and real quick, I've been thrown a word around. If there's anyone out there who's not sure what the word adaptation means. It's when a living organism like a plant or an animal has something that helps it survive or allows them to be better suited for life and the environment they live.

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Speaker 2: In Yeah, like the ie scale that we just learned about, or he pits Brett mentioned before.

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Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. Both of those are great adaptations, and Brett, there's one more adaptation the bush master has that many people fear, but you, well, you're kind of fascinated by it. While most people associate venom as another reason to fear or dislike sneakes, you see it as one of the more unique adaptations worth learning more about.

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Speaker 3: So I think about this all quite a bit as to why this all came about and how this evolutionary process occurred, and there's books about it and paper's written about it. But they don't have legs or arms, so there is a great necessity for them to have something better, some way of apprehending and prey acquiring it, and not only to getting it, but to eat it or to consume it, because the fangs also help in pulling the prey down. Their jaws are specialized also in that they can move independently. The top jaw, left and right side of the lower jaw are not technically joined by a bone, and they are able to move independently. So now they're not chewing their prey out, they're swallowing it a whole, so no arms or legs. There is a need for something better, some better way to acquire prey and to ensure that they survive, So at some point this venom is just like the most incredible thing for me in the evolutionary scheme of things for an animal to possess or to have produced. It's kind of a technical saliva, a digestive product. It's one of the most complex organic proteins there is, and it changes all the time. It even changes a juvenile venomous snake as it grows into an adult depending on what prey it eats, because they different prey when they're smaller, so the venom will likely be different.

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Speaker 2: Oh wait, Brett, there's a belief out there that the venom of a baby or a young venomus snake is more dangerous than an adult if the venom changes over time to better matts to prey they're eating, would it adult snakes have stronger venom?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's right. And I've also heard that baby venomous snakes can't control how much venom they use, so sometimes their bites can be even more dangerous. Are any of these true? Bread or is there a different reason behind the increased danger of these little ones.

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Speaker 3: There will be a higher stress factor in a smaller snake, likely because it is more susceptible to prey. They know they're a target. A larger snake is a less likely target, so there's likely a stress factor involved there. Also, as can they control the amount of venom. That's possible, but it is different because food items are different as they grow older and they need a different type of venom as they get older.

00:14:05
Speaker 2: Wow, that is really interesting, Brett, and it makes sense. It's not about the younger snakes being able to control venom or not, but it's more about the fact that they are smaller, so they're more likely in need of defending themselves against larger predators.

00:14:18
Speaker 1: Yes, so interesting. And see as we're talking about venom, Marco, I wanted to ask more about that.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's right, Rick. Didn't you say something about the new medicines that help us thanks to the study of venom.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that's right, Marco. Okay, Brett. Aside from the venom being a great adaptation, like you explained to us, for the safety of acquiring food and allowing them to be this important apex predator, that helps keep the ecosystem in balance. I was impressed to hear that venom has allowed for medical advancements in human medicine beyond just making anti venom. What is it about the venom that is contributing to this.

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Speaker 3: So we know that snake venom is an extremely complex organic protein. It is has been used and developed in derivatives of many drugs, and that list is growing. So pharmaceutical companies have invested into snake venom and have come up with products that are worked for diabetes, heart medication, and they're still coming up with things. It's basically it's untapped at this point. Painkillers that are one hundred times more effective than what we know of and not addictive, which is a really interesting thing. And we again it's just scratching the surface.

00:15:36
Speaker 1: That's fascinating.

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Speaker 2: This is what I love Mother Nature to think that there's so much out there that we still don't know about. We've learned so much from indigenous people and their beliefs and cultures about the medicinal uses of plants all across South and Central America, and now we're able to look at different components of venom to help with medical advancements.

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Speaker 1: Also, yeah, it's kind of funny. I mean, not funny, ha ha, but funny interesting that we often look at conservation of wildlife as a means to maintain healthy environments and therefore a healthy world for all of us to live in. But oh yeah, by the way, extra bonus for making sure venomous reptiles don't go extinct because they can help us in so many other ways.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right on, Fred, And that brings us back to the Amazonia Conservation Hub.

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Speaker 1: Yes, the conservation side of all of this, Brett, What are some of the things we are doing here at the San Diego Zoo for these amazing snakes.

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Speaker 3: We'll try to duplicate their environment. They have very large habitats, and we've even set up cameras on there to watch them, so we have video and we see what they do. We've set up boxes in there for them to lay eggs in and with clear tops. We didn't know if they were going to like that or not with the clear tops because they use long, deep, dark burrows, but turned out the female was okay with the box with a clear lid, and she was gravied, which means she had eggs, and she went into the box so we know about the time of the year they are producing eggs. We kind of know about the time of the year they're reproducing if we're able to capture that copulation or the actual breeding of the male and the female. We see that, which is something that you know, you don't see in the wild. There's shedding cycles. There's a lot all the things that we observe and that we see them do. We keep records of everything, every little thing. So there's a lot of notes that we have a lot of documentation that we have on these snakes in the zoo environment.

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Speaker 2: That sounds like a lot of information that has been collected over time, right, can you tell us why this is so important.

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Speaker 3: There's still not much known about them, the natural history of these animals, and we could just go along and not document this information and not be concerned with them. But we will accumulate all this data, and other institutions have kept them too, and we communicate with other institutions and compile this data. We'll have all this data, and you know, it's just important to keep record of natural history of the animals, whether it is in the wild or whether it's here at the zoo. So hopefully what we have will be beneficial for the work that's being done in the field. At some point it could be utilized.

00:18:20
Speaker 1: That is really a great example not only how zoos work together for conservation, but also shines a light on the importance of zoos in general.

00:18:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like you said, Brett, all of this information can help our researchers and partners working in different conservation hubs all around the world.

00:18:36
Speaker 1: Brett, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to sit down with us and share your knowledge and passion about a species that so many people would rather avoid altogether.

00:18:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, no kidding, Rick, but it does make me wonder, what is it, Brett, that first got you excited about snakes and other reptiles.

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Speaker 3: You know, I think about that a lot ever since I was a kid. I've got photos my parents too, come in when I'm must have been three with a horn blizzard in my hand growing up in Texas, and it just always been fascinated. I guess it started with dinosaurs and then at some point sharks, but it's always been reptiles that's been what really Because I'm a little bit odd myself, so I like I'm kind of interested in just things that most people are not, and reptiles has just always been something that I spent lots of time in Texas looking for them. As a kid. My dad would take me out fishing, and that's what I did. I look for reptiles and amphibians and I would tay Dad, let's go fishing and on a Saturday morning and he said I can't, We can't go. I said, come on, come on to My mom would say, just take him fishing, and then he was he doesn't want to go fishing. He wants to look for snakes. And he was right. So I don't know. I've just always I would keep them as a kid. My parents were understanding enough, I guess are lenient enough, and they allowed me to keep a numbers of them at my bedroom at my house.

00:20:02
Speaker 1: So for you, hanging out with a lot of different reptiles is just another day, whereas for a lot of other people, though, just seeing one or thinking of one can bring an instant sense of fear or Dislike Brett, what would you like to get across other people, especially for those who might have the instant immediate responsive I just don't like them when they think about snakes.

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Speaker 3: They are important and they play an important part of the ecosystem wherever they exist around the world, and they don't want to hurt you. They don't want to bite you. They have a rattle. That's the first warning, is like they don't want to waste the venom on you, on a person when they're not going to teach you. They got to use it for their food, and they need it for their food. That's part of their survival. So even some of the venomous snakes will vibrate their tail that don't have rattles in the leaves, kind of like as a warning to people to leave them alone. Don't get too close, just stay away. We don't really want to bite you. But there's so many non venomous reptiles, lizards particular. I know that people have their fears of the little lizards or the small snakes, but they will run away from you faster than you can run away from them. And the lizards in particular eat lots of insects, and they do a lot around your house. So if you can keep the lizards around and the snakes around, and you'll have other unwanted things not There.

00:21:26
Speaker 2: All great information and reminders that reptiles would rather avoid us, and they keep our environment clear of rodents, insects, and others so called pests.

00:21:35
Speaker 1: And it's important to remember you don't have to like them, but we do ask you respect them enough to give them their space if you should ever come across one in the wild or in your neighborhood.

00:21:45
Speaker 2: With TC Lisa ass Brett, you have really given us a lot of great information and new insight to the bushmasters of South America.

00:21:53
Speaker 1: You know, I'm starting to see a connection here, Marco, Oh yeah, what's that? Well, so far, it seems a lot of our guests who are a passionate and seemingly forever curious about the wildlife they work with, have been that way since childhood.

00:22:06
Speaker 2: I know that's right and lucky for all of us that the adults in their lives either supported or at least allowed for them to explore those passions exactly.

00:22:14
Speaker 1: So maybe that's one more lesson we've learned for this episode. The future wildlife care specialists, conservationists, and wildlife researchers of the world might be listening right now.

00:22:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, right on. And if those adults in those kids' lives are listening right now, I hope they understand that allowing kids to play in nature and pursue their curiosity for wildlife could very well be the start of the next generation taking care of wildlife and even the world.

00:22:41
Speaker 1: Great point, Marco and I can't wait to see the next generation of wildlife allies join all of us in our efforts to make this a world where all life thrives.

00:22:50
Speaker 2: Well said Buddy.

00:22:52
Speaker 1: All Right, everyone, be sure to subscribe and tune into our next episode, in which we share with you some curious facts about a mysterious animal of the Amazonian hub Ubb, who also happens to be very cute.

00:23:05
Speaker 2: Marco Wentz and I'm Rick Schwartz.

00:23:07
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. For more information about the San Diego Zoo and San Diego Zoo Safari Park, go to SVZWA dot org. Amazing Wildlife is a production of iHeartRadio. Our supervising producer is Nikiah Swinton and our sound designer and editor is Sierra Spreen. For more shows from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.