RHOBH: Goodbye, Kyle?

00:00:00
Speaker 1: But I also think that every housewife, let's say I'm their agent, you have to sit down and say every year to this cast member, like, does this represent you anymore?

00:00:08
Speaker 2: How can this move the needle? What is the end goal?

00:00:12
Speaker 1: And if this is your only goal is to exist in this space, you shouldn't be on the show anymore because you're gonna lose sense of who you are and what your value system is. And you and I have seen that happen before. And the also whence you leave, you're gonna be completely lost. And we've seen this time and time again. So you have to have those conversations every year with somebody.

00:00:33
Speaker 2: Stay tuned.

00:00:34
Speaker 3: We'll get into my conversation right after these quick ads. Welcome to Reality with the King. It's me Carlos King. The King, a reality TV and one of the most sought after executive producers can reality television with over ten years of production experience.

00:01:01
Speaker 4: Twice a week on.

00:01:02
Speaker 3: Reality with the King, we'll sit down with my friends across the entertainment industry, recap our favorite reality shows and revisit unforgettable moments that we are still talking and tweeting about. Hey, rain drops, So today's guest is someone I met I think two years ago, and she and I immediately.

00:01:27
Speaker 4: Hit it off. She's awesome in the podcast world.

00:01:30
Speaker 3: In my opinion, she's like the Queen of podcast because her podcast breaks down everything in the unscripted world, from docuseries to true crime, celebrity content. I love her so much. She's a good girl, she's a good friend. I'm talking about the amazing Kay.

00:01:53
Speaker 2: S Hi friend.

00:01:56
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, before we get into anything, I have to say that what I love most about you is that you are, unlike many people I think in the space, you are a real champion of women and I'm always really grateful for that. And I'm also really grateful for your friendship.

00:02:15
Speaker 2: And you make me laugh.

00:02:15
Speaker 3: Well, you make me laugh, and thank you for saying that. I'm so honored that with your busy schedule, she is a mother, a wife, a podcast host, and she drops episodes almost every day. Because ms Kate has a lot to say and we have a lot to get into today, Kate Chase. So for starters, we have to kick things off with the Real Housewives of Atlanta reunion that take recently, and there's been a lot of chatter on social media about the seating assignment, and I've got some exclusive tea based on allegedly who was sitting next to Andy, and I need for you to die as sect why this seating arrangement happened the way it did.

00:03:06
Speaker 4: So let me ask you this.

00:03:07
Speaker 3: Do you know anything about this seating arrangement that's been the top of social media?

00:03:12
Speaker 1: No, So bring it to me, and I think I will have a great opinion based on what you're bringing to me. I'm going into this completely open.

00:03:21
Speaker 3: Yes, take a guess who you think, based on what we've seen so far this season, who should be sitting next to Andy.

00:03:30
Speaker 1: Well, I would like to see Chara and Kenya, but I feel like he has a soft spot for Candy, so I'm gonna say she most likely occupies one of those seats, but I think it should be Chara and Kenya.

00:03:42
Speaker 3: So here's the exclusive news that allegedly has taken place. You're right in terms of Charay is sitting next to Andy, and so is Marlowe.

00:03:51
Speaker 2: Huh.

00:03:52
Speaker 1: Well, I feel like that's maybe because they're either rewarding her for bringing it, but it also could make sense to me if I knew who she's sitting with on the other side of the couch because sometimes I feel like it's strategic seeding because they know it's going to create conversations and chaos within the filming that will make for great television. So who is she sitting next to?

00:04:13
Speaker 3: Allegedly next to Marlowe is Drew and Sonya oh okay, and next to Charay.

00:04:20
Speaker 4: Is Kenya and Candy.

00:04:23
Speaker 2: Wow, Candy, good night? This is your last season?

00:04:26
Speaker 4: Sorry?

00:04:26
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean right, So.

00:04:31
Speaker 4: Tell me why you think it's Candy's last Theson eight.

00:04:34
Speaker 1: I just I think that that's probable. I think they listen. It's no disrespect to the individual cast member. But there comes a point where I think the audience and the producers and the network say to themselves, the story has been told. And I think she's been on many seasons. I think she's been incredible, incredibly valuable. But I think her story we know it already, and I think it we need Moose give space for someone else to switch it up.

00:05:03
Speaker 2: And I also think she should be at a point.

00:05:05
Speaker 1: If I'm her agent, I'm like, I think that we've done enough here, right, and there's so many opportunities that she can get beyond the show and deserves to have beyond the show. I think that there's a point where you got to close the chapter. I just watched the docuseries and Derek Jeter he should have retired after his three thousand pit but he wanted to keep playing, and then he got injured, and then the team's pissed off because he got injured and he can't add any value. You got to know when to quit. Jerry Seinfeld quit at the top. I think she should walk away. She's done a great job on the show, and she has so much in her back pocket. She's going to be even more successful after that. So I'm our agent. I say I'm gone. I think that if you're at the end of the couch and you've been on for many, many seasons, that's probably a sign that they want to switch the show up. Have you ever seen Tamra on the end of the couch?

00:05:58
Speaker 2: No? Never, As you brilliantly.

00:06:01
Speaker 1: Brought up in one of your first episodes, everybody has to be a force multiplier, and I don't know if she did enough of that this season.

00:06:08
Speaker 2: Okay, Kathy, Well, you and I are.

00:06:10
Speaker 1: Always looking through a completely different lens than other people because we're always thinking about, like how much story is going on, Like what are we learning about all the characters? Like is there enough there that their lives are overlapping? And I just I think that they need to switch it up. I have to say I have loved Sonya. I love her story. I love this beautiful couple. First of all, both are incredibly successful, Like I want to hang out with them, I want to go to a dinner party with them. I feel like they're on the cusp of really creating some incredible businesses. But I think that the conversation that he has with her all the time about wanting another child is really valuable to the How'swives spectrum. That is a completely relatable topic that so many people can relate to. And I think the problem is that sometimes when you have these different franchises and the same people have been on forever and ever and ever, you don't really have relatable storylines unless that audience is aging with you.

00:07:11
Speaker 2: And there is an audience.

00:07:13
Speaker 1: That's aging with the show, but they're also I find there are a lot of college kids. There are a lot of people in their like twenties now who watch the show, who are fresh to the show, and that's what the network wants you went fresh eyeballs, right. You got to keep that show fresh. So if you only have cast members who talk about like step children and children and going to college, which by the way, are completely important conversations. But if everyone's conversation is about having older children, you're not going to keep the interest of the younger audience. So they have to have someone new and fresh who has relatable content. That said, I've really enjoyed the way that Candy and Todd have talked about the realities of coperenting having older children, the conversations about what to do with wealth. I think those are much better conversations than other franchises. I just had racal Gates, doctor rackel Gates on my show today. She's a TV professor, and we both agree that Atlanta does a far better job of tackling the issue of mothering than any other Real Housewives franchise. So that said, I love them all, but I think you have to know when you got to go. And I think Candy, if I were an agent, I'd say, I think i think I've done enough and I'm going to walk away.

00:08:24
Speaker 3: Now, this is fascinating that we get to talk about this because what you said to me. I never looked at until you compared Candy's position on the Real Housewives of Atlanta to Derek Jeter, but also most recently, Serena Williams retiring.

00:08:44
Speaker 1: And what did Serena say? And what did Serena say? She's like, I feel like I'm being pushed into another direction. She's at peace with her career because she sees herself moving into a second chapter confidently. And I think that that's the best Housewives position is when you can walk away with confidence that you know that you can shed that first chapter, move into your second chapter and feel good about it.

00:09:09
Speaker 2: Most women don't do that. I think that she should do it.

00:09:12
Speaker 3: Let's talk about Candy's position on the Royal Houspots of Atlanta. I never looked at it that way, but I have to say, you may be onto something, because when you are at the top of your career and there's so much more for you to do, it may be time for you to go. So let's talk about my career in comparison, because I really want my audience to not take this as a shady sound bite, but to really look at it as a deeper meeting in terms of when to hold when to fold and when it's time to buy all gracefully because there's other opportunities your way. I left The Real Housepots of Atlanta after season nine because I knew for me that I did the best I could with that show, and I wanted to leave the party while the party was still exclusive. It was still the hottest ticket in town. And I knew, as Carlos King, if I'm able to take the pedigree of telling people, hey, I left after season nine. Wait, I mean that season that was highly rated, the four part reunion where this happened, that happened. I knew if I could take my legacy and translate it into my career goals of owning my production company, being on their talent, I couldn't have done any of these things if I was still a part of that show. I could not have Now to your point, I look at Candy. Candy has so much more to do in this industry. Unlike Marlowe, I don't think Candy is only Atlanta.

00:10:46
Speaker 4: I do think she's worldwide.

00:10:48
Speaker 3: We're talking about Kate, a reality star that hosted ellen degenerous talk show while Ellen was gone for a couple of days.

00:10:57
Speaker 4: That's huge.

00:10:58
Speaker 3: We're talking about somebody who was on Big Brother before any other housewived was on that particular celebrity edition. Candy has so much more in store, and I never thought I would say this, Kate. I agree with you that this should be Candy's last season only because I think there's so much more for Candy to do that I don't think Candy is going to be able to truly capture this legacy that's waiting for her as long as she's on this show.

00:11:28
Speaker 1: Also, I think everybody can relate to this. I had a job that I was excellent at. I did media consulting for law firms. I was excellent at it, but at some point I wanted to do other things, and continuing to have that job it held me back, not just in time, but in your emotional capacity to really be good at something else. And I think it's great the way that they've highlighted how much she does in entertainment, not just in front of the camera, but behind the scenes. They talked about her Broadway production and the meeting behind it and giving.

00:11:58
Speaker 2: Voice to black men.

00:12:00
Speaker 1: If you think about her, not the time that it takes for her to film this show, If you eliminate that all the other things that she can do within business and entertainment that are going to far surpass her being on Justice Show.

00:12:15
Speaker 3: And one thing we know about Candy, she doesn't even money. She's very wealthy, so the money should not be a factor in her decision to stay.

00:12:24
Speaker 1: Like she could start a network, That's what I'm saying, Like she, I could see her so many running a network.

00:12:28
Speaker 4: I could not agree with you more, Kate.

00:12:29
Speaker 3: There's so much more in store for Candy to achieve. And as someone who left that machine and look at my life now, I'm the happiest I've been. I've accomplished so much, I have so much more to accomplish. I would like for Candy's team, like you suggested, Kate, to look at her and say, let's leave while you're still hot, and let's get you a talk show. Let's get you on your own streaming network. Let you and Todd build this empire. Let's move you to New York for two months to create a stage play on Broadway. Let's have you start in more films and movies that you've been doing but as a supporting character only because your schedule as a full time housewife is so demanding.

00:13:15
Speaker 1: But also think that every housewife, let's say I'm their agent. You've just sit down and say every year to this cast member, like, does this represent you anymore? How can this move the needle? What is the end goal? And if this is your only goal is to exist in this space, you shouldn't be on the show anymore because you're gonna lose sense of who you are and what your value system is. And you and I have seen that happen before. And also once you leave, you're gonna be completely lost, and we've seen this time and time again. So you have to have those conversations every year with somebody no.

00:13:46
Speaker 3: And one thing I know about you, You remind me of Dave Quinn in the sense of you're like the ghost producer of Housewives.

00:13:53
Speaker 4: I know you've never given that credit for it.

00:13:58
Speaker 3: So we just talked about how you have to know as a housewife when it's time for you to leave the nest. And sometimes a lot of housewives stay because they don't have any identity outside of that franchise. And one thing I know about you, Kate, you live in the OC. You are friends with almost, if not all, some majority of the past and present cast members of the Real Housewives of OC. I listened to your conversation with Bronwyn because of your interview with Broadwin. I created a show based upon people who aren't capable of separating their reality from other real things. I'm not gonna give too much away, guys, but your interview with Broadwyn was so deep because Brown said, and I'm paraphrasing, that she felt like a failure after she got fired from Housewives and she misses the cameras, and she said something so poignant. She said, Kate, I don't know who I am without cameras in my face and without being a housewife, who am I I'm lost.

00:15:11
Speaker 1: I think that this is the luxury of really knowing these women off the show, and I feel like they know that I'm there for them and they feel safe with me. I have so many conversations about the film, you know, the toll that it's going to take, and before they start the show or while they're on the show, that when they're in the space of my show, they know I'm going to take care of them because in the end, I want their voices to be heard. But oftentimes I think with the people that I've known, you're really privy to a conversation between two of us. These are the same conversations I have with Bronwyn off camera. So she struggled because she was and this is very similar to a lot of women that are on The Real Housewives, is that she was never a working person. She met her husband very young and wanted to have children. So once you start raising children, anybody with children knows this that it's very easy to get lost in the schedule of your children and to forget about who you are and what's.

00:16:10
Speaker 2: Important to you.

00:16:11
Speaker 1: So she gets this show and she suddenly has a job, she's accountable to people, she's showing up, she has people telling her behind the camera, you are an important person. You have been a really interesting story. And then the show airs and she has strangers telling her I'm really inspired by She's, for the first time in her life having a job where she's held accountable and.

00:16:36
Speaker 2: She feels good about it. She feels self worth, she feels.

00:16:39
Speaker 1: Independence, and she feels acknowledgment from others. And then she lives in that space while it's chaotic. She would be the first to tell you she's adhd So she thrives on chaos. So think of somebody who has ADHD. They thrive in a chaotic environment, they're stimulated by it. Then the cameras leave and it's quiet. So you're unsettled for many the layers. You are battling sobriety, you're battling conversations with your spouse about your sexuality, and most significantly, her brain is battling the quiet now that comes with everyone leaving, the cameras, the audience, everything, And so she's stuck in that space of like, I loved who I was when I was on a show, and now it's gone, and I have to not only figure out who I am as a person, but I'm still responsible for seven children. So of course that's going to be a That's something that someone would unwind in therapy for years. And so she was just bold enough to say it because most of these women are suffering through similar ways, but they're afraid to say it because by saying it, they feel like they're going to look weak, that they're not going to have other opportunities, that people are going to judge them because they've been this television persona, and to let go of that television persona, it's almost like shackles to them because they're like waiting for a call for Brown, when she was waiting for a call from the network to say we want you back. And then it's like these stages of grieving because then she's like, well, they might call me back, but I'm angry at them. It's like a bad breakup, you know, like fuck them, like I don't need them. But then she's like, but I think I do need them. And it's like, you have to exist as a person me on the show because this is eating you alive. You need it more than you should. It's like a bad boyfriend. So I think she was just unraveling that and saying that. But as you remember in the interview, she said like, what I have nothing now, And I was like, I'm not going to let you have that.

00:18:30
Speaker 3: She was so self deprecating, and not in a humble way, but in a very sad way. It touched me so much because this is a mother, and because she was on a show for only two seasons, she felt worthless without that show, and I'm like, but you're a mom. You have seven kids who look after and it goes to show you the psychology that goes into what is meaningful for someone to be on TV.

00:18:56
Speaker 4: And one thing I can say to.

00:18:57
Speaker 3: You that I'm pretty sure you'll agree with me on I've been a part of this housewives world for almost a decade, and one thing I know, based on people who either left or got fired or are still on these shows, they don't believe there's life after Bravo.

00:19:11
Speaker 2: They don't.

00:19:11
Speaker 1: I have so many conversations about you're going to be okay, you wouldn't even believe it.

00:19:17
Speaker 3: It's to the point where nine times out of ten, when a housewife or reality start gets fired from their show, they call.

00:19:26
Speaker 2: Me, Yeah, I believe it, and they call me.

00:19:29
Speaker 3: To create a show about them, or they call me to help them with another show because they don't feel like they have any work without cameras. And the one thing I say to these women, and I'm not being funny when I say this, they DM me, they reach out to a friend of a friend, they start following me on Instagram, which I'm like, okay, I know where this is about to go.

00:19:54
Speaker 4: They feel like.

00:19:56
Speaker 3: Without these cameras, I'm nothing. And the one thing I say to these either former housewives or former reality TV stars, is do yourself a favor and take the year off to really just find out who you are and what you want, because maybe it's not meant for you to hop on another reality show. Maybe it's meant for you to sit back and figure out other avenues in this business. And the difference between Monique Samuel, because I know people are thinking about her now, I actually reach out to her. So that was the difference in this case. I reach out to her and she was reluctant. But oftentimes it's them reaching out to me, and I feel bad for them because they really feel like if I don't have cameras in my face, I don't have a life.

00:20:45
Speaker 1: Here's the other part of it that's like frustrating to kind of explain to other people is that I don't know if it's the people in their orbit. They don't have enough people that are explaining to them the reality of like what this specific television opportunity looks like.

00:20:58
Speaker 2: Once you leave. It is really difficult.

00:21:01
Speaker 1: To be in the entertainment industry, to have any job in the entertainment industry, and you've been in this very specific role and it's a reality role where it's about you and your specific life. They all kind of start to drink the kool aid, and they think I have infinite opportunities.

00:21:16
Speaker 2: Very few have all those opportunities, very few. So they leave.

00:21:21
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, this housewife who never had a job before, who's a quirky personality, suddenly thinks that they should be the host of shows, they should be an actress, they should do all these other things that people who studied it, like Julliard can't even get jobs. And because of it, then they beat themselves up about it. So it's like a disconnect with reality.

00:21:44
Speaker 5: We'll be right back after some quick ads.

00:21:56
Speaker 3: When we think about this upcoming season of the Real Housewives of Orange County, our mutual friend Tamar Judge is back on the show, which I.

00:22:06
Speaker 4: Think is great.

00:22:07
Speaker 3: Taylor Armstrong is a friend to the show Kate as someone who lives in the OC and knows this world more than me and my listeners combine, how do you feel about Tamar and Taylor's placement on this upcoming season of the OC and do you think these two can make OC great again?

00:22:28
Speaker 1: There are two parts to this. I understand why they brought Tamra back. She is a force multiplayer, and obviously they want to connect the storylines of Heather Dubrow and Shannon. There was something missing last season, and Shannon needs to acknowledge why she cut off Tamra, like we need the audience needs that, like we need to see that play out, and we need to see how their friendship exists at this point in time. So I think they needed to bring her back to make all those storylines work. I still feel like that show misses the mark what really OC is. So that's the second part to this and to your question, No, I don't think Taylor Armstrong makes any sense in this at all in any way possible.

00:23:09
Speaker 2: I don't get it. It's very two thousand and three.

00:23:11
Speaker 1: I'm sure she's a very lovely woman, but I'm just saying for me to look at this as storytelling, it doesn't make any sense for me.

00:23:19
Speaker 2: This is what OC is.

00:23:20
Speaker 4: Like.

00:23:21
Speaker 1: OC is actually a very diverse county. They just tend to talk about two coastal cities, Newport Beach and Laguna Beach, which are not very diverse. So I'm always just like, how do you cast a show and not have that much diversity when it really is like the Asian community, huge, Persian, Indian, Syrian, Like there's so many kinds of communities, but we keep getting the same woman who has hair extensions, Like why the other thing they missed the mark on And I don't know if you could figure this out unless you live there. I'm originally from Philadelphia and then moved to DC, and then I went to LA and then I went to Orange County. I'm an outsider still. That is the story they miss on. That is that OC is a near impossible place to penetrate socially. The people who lived there grew up there and they went to USC or they went to a specifically, they went to University of San Diego. They only stay friends with that group up until the time they retire and they get old. They stay hang out with the same group of ten people all the time. So there's this fish out of water story that they've missed every single season, is that there are people like myself who move there, and yes, it's helpful when you have children, but they're never going to accept you. You're never going to be invited on trips, You're never going to be invited over like I'm in New Jersey at my sister's house. People househop you're invited, you're out of town. You're invited over. That does not exist in OC. The only time that people get together really is if they go to a restaurant, if they go out as a group. They're going to go on a trip to Palm Springs. You'll see ten couples. They're all wearing matching truck hats that say like yacht rock on it or something like. It is a place that it's all about the herd mentality there. There's this pressure of do you have the right car, the right bag. The New Yorkers are about setting the trend. Orange County is the paranoia about not being part of the trend so that I never get I'm like, I live here, I see this every day and they keep missing that.

00:25:25
Speaker 4: I want to.

00:25:25
Speaker 1: See that story play out, Like how can someone penetrate a social scene when they're an outsider? Instead, it feels very disjointed to me. You have like in no and we've talked about this, In no world would Heather du Bro hang out with Gene now? And how does Emily in this group? Like they're all it's too just joint jointed. It's like this too. They all live in such different areas of OC. It would be like having real Housewives of New York and there's one from Staten Island, one from Manhattan, one from the Bronx, and one from Brooklyn. New Yorkers would go like these people would never hang out Like how you're if you live in Staten Island, You're not going to Manhattan. You would never hang out with someone in Bronx. It makes no sense. That is what Orange County is like.

00:26:10
Speaker 3: Kay, you are dropping so much interesting information for my listeners because I never even thought of that, the comparison between the districts in OC to the districts in New York City because I used to.

00:26:24
Speaker 4: Live in New York, So you see what I mean.

00:26:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, no one from Staten Island is hanging out like a Bronx person, and no one from Manhattan is hanging out with anybody who lives like in Long Island.

00:26:35
Speaker 4: Like it's not happening.

00:26:37
Speaker 1: A woman who lives in a townhouse in Codo de Caza going through a divorce has a completely different life than a woman who lives in Crystal Cove at the top of the top of the hill with children who go to private schools in It's like South County with a husband whose businesses in Newport Beach. Those two lives will never intersect. If they do intersect, it's like surface conversations. And then add to that the component of OC being a very snobby, clique county. It makes no sense.

00:27:12
Speaker 3: So when you say Taylor doesn't make any sense, is that what you're talking about? Because what part of the OC does Taylor live?

00:27:19
Speaker 4: And do you know?

00:27:20
Speaker 1: I have no idea. I don't know where she lives. She has a fifteen year old daughter, She lived in Beverly Hills, she moves to o C. No one seems to hang out with her unless it's like at a Bravocon event. How is she important to this friend group? And what does her story tell you about OC? Like she lived in Beverly Hills, but she doesn't have a close group of friends that we're ever going to get access to that live in OC. It's not telling the story. Like remember when we were talking about real of Salt Lake City. You were like, you could call it real houseways a tempion, It wouldn't make any difference. The show has to be about what that city is, and it doesn't. I'm screaming all the time because I'm like, I live here. I know how these people are Also, all the neighborhoods are different. So like where over where I live is like surf moms who like wear surf clothes, and that's like a mile and a half away from Shannon's neighborhood, which is like suburban mom. Now, I'll tell you what the show really needs to be is the Real Housewives of the Port Streets, which is where Shannon and Kelly and they all live. And I'm not saying like I'm not breaking privacy laws, like I think everyone knows that that's where they live.

00:28:32
Speaker 2: The Port Streets would be the perfect Real Houses of Orange County show. And here's why.

00:28:37
Speaker 1: It's this neighborhood that exists in the middle of Newport Beach and there's an elementary school in the middle of the neighborhood. And the people that live there never leave the neighborhood. If I have a friend that moves there, I'm like, I'll see you in four years. They all socialize together, they're always together, and they're all these different social dynamics that are interesting. So people say, Kate, if you move there, like you get sucked out it, and I'll say no, I'm like, I'll go under the radar. And they're like, no, no, no, no, one goes under the radar. You move there and you get sucked in. That should be the real housews of Orange County, the Port Street Show.

00:29:11
Speaker 3: And that is the reason why the Golden Days of the OC worked because, like you said, it was these real friendships in these real neighborhoods where they sort of live close to each other.

00:29:21
Speaker 1: Coto de Caza that is like the Port Streets. It's like this neighborhood, so all their lives are overlapping. Now it's just like the Staten Island Bronx Manhattan Show.

00:29:31
Speaker 3: And that's why it's not working. So because now they decided to get rid of doctor Jen, who I know is a friend of yours, and I believe you referred doctor Jen correct.

00:29:42
Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:29:42
Speaker 1: I mean I think that she had already maybe was on their radar. But one of the producers I kept saying, you got to look at her because I've known them for a decade and her husband is wonderful. I mean, they're just so disjointed within their marriage. But I thought that was a modern story of like she's working all the time and he's the stay at home hot dad. At the school, they used to go to before they came to ours. He would get written up. They would complain because he would.

00:30:11
Speaker 2: Never wear a shirt to school.

00:30:13
Speaker 1: It was like a Christian school, and they would like he'd be dropping their kids off, and he's so oblivious.

00:30:18
Speaker 2: He's so sweet, so oblivious.

00:30:19
Speaker 1: In like kind of like low cut, like running shorts with like muscles, and women are just like staring at him, like like he was the hot husband and he's oblivious to it. There's just so many layers. I'm like, these two are just whacka do hilarious.

00:30:33
Speaker 4: They never tapped into that.

00:30:35
Speaker 1: Never there are women that are like, oh my god, I get text all the time like, oh my god, I just saw Ryan at basketball tryouts. He's so hot and now for me, he's like my brother. So I'm just like laughing about it. But there's that component. And then she's oblivious to stuff too, like since she works all the time, she's oblivious to stuff.

00:30:54
Speaker 2: And then she'll come to me and she'll complain. She's like, I'm just.

00:30:57
Speaker 1: So mad at Ryan, Like he gets to go to the tennis matches and like he gets to see all of that, and like you can too, if you let him work more and you work less, and she's like, no.

00:31:06
Speaker 2: I want to work. I'm like, we have to compromise.

00:31:09
Speaker 4: So it's like.

00:31:09
Speaker 2: They're always arguing.

00:31:10
Speaker 1: And I just felt like a lot of people could relate to that, that that's a modern story. Like a lot of men now are the stay at home dads? Listen, there are many stories that I'm surprised they have not covered in all these seasons of twenty years of housewives, stay at home dads didn't seem to be covered that much. Health issues don't seem to me to be covered as much as I would think. You have one hundred and fifty plus housewives, I can't believe only three of them have had an eating disorder. I can't believe very few of them have had paranoia about like mimmographies, about having ovariensists, about.

00:31:51
Speaker 2: Relatives that have.

00:31:52
Speaker 1: Alzheimer's, like the health component. I'm surprised they never kind of cover that stuff.

00:31:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just always.

00:31:59
Speaker 1: Look at it like I feel like I'm a cultural anthropologist, so I'm thinking of like, are these modern stories are these people that I know? Are they talking about real issues, real people? And I feel like over the years sometimes it gets away from that because it becomes about the dinner party and survivor and alliances. And I think in order to be really successful and to keep people engaged, there has to be storytelling that's relatable.

00:32:22
Speaker 3: When I stepped up on the Real Hospitals of Atlanta as the showrunner slash executive producer, it was a mandate for me because I'm like you, I never called myself this, but I love how you said it a cultural anthropologist, because I'm like, that's what it is. I told Candy, Fedra, Nini, Kenya Portia it was mandatory that we talk about real life issues. And it's no secret that season six of that show was the highest rated because I said, listen, we can easily throw shade and read each other and all that stuff, but people want to know the truth.

00:33:02
Speaker 4: They want to know the truth between.

00:33:04
Speaker 3: Phase and Apollo, Candy and To's relationship, how your mother could be overbearing.

00:33:09
Speaker 4: Nini and Greg being remarried, are they still in the honeymoon stage?

00:33:14
Speaker 3: Kenya dealing with being a single woman who wants a kid, but she is trying to survive these friendship where people think she flirts with her husbands.

00:33:24
Speaker 4: It was like stuff that I knew A large group of.

00:33:27
Speaker 3: People could relate to and what I do feel like what's happening now.

00:33:31
Speaker 4: I feel like Beverly.

00:33:32
Speaker 3: Hills is having not a so great season because we're not talking about anything real. And these past two episodes, Kate, we had Lisa Renna put on a performance of a lifetime and I was so taken aback because I'm like, we're used to you sort of acting out in a playful way and you're in on the joke. But these loud outbursts directed towards Sutton is so boring, lazy immature that is not making me want to watch the rest of the season because it's not real, like you're you're You're having these outbursts across the dinner table where Melissa Etherich is seeing you guys a song that she cleared for Bravo. And last but not least you, I'm really interested in following your story about your mom passing, like I really we as the audience, Kate, love Lois. It makes you rest in peace. I would love to see conversations with you, with your daughters, totally with you, you too, all I.

00:34:37
Speaker 4: Have, your grandma is gone.

00:34:39
Speaker 3: I would love to see you and Harry fuck the spaghetti sauce.

00:34:43
Speaker 4: I want to see you and Harry have a.

00:34:44
Speaker 3: Real conversation about your place in Hollywood.

00:34:49
Speaker 4: Are you a has been actress?

00:34:51
Speaker 3: What does it mean right now that your husband he still is booking gigs and Lisa Rena, you can't book a gig to save your life. I wanted to understand that relationship. Also, I would have really preferred to see Eileen Davidson and Lisa Renna talk about the trajector.

00:35:08
Speaker 4: Of the career. Where Eileen won.

00:35:11
Speaker 3: An Emmy her first season on Billy Hills, she won an Emmy for acting on Days of Our Lives, whereas Lisa Renna's career like she's unbookable in terms of being an actress.

00:35:23
Speaker 1: Well, that goes back to what we were saying, is that the show really has to be about the city. The city is Beverly Hills, that's the court, like the center of the West Coast entertainment business. So the fact that to your point, we're not having those conversations that you've been married for I don't know how many years, thirty years or something. You're both working, but your husband's booking scripted projects that you probably still want to get but don't get them. It's sorry if it's meta, but you're not getting them because you're an unscripted television star. Now that should be discussed. We should talk about how your daughters are now in their early twenties in a vicious entertainment industry. How do you protect them, how do you support them, how does your husband support them? None of those things are happening. That is central to the core of the people who live in that city and the dynamics of living in that city. That is why the show is not as great anymore. That's why we do like to watch Erica because that is a story that's very rich in Beverly Hills, the rise and fall of somebody who has money and power and access. That's why we watch that because that is what happens in a city like that. It's not going to happen in Topeka. It's not going to happen in Minneapolis. That's happening there. So that's why we watch for Erica. We do still kind of watch for Kyle because her sister's on the show, and they were both like or she was a child actress, and they have been in the industry since they were younger. So I think people watch because they find that fascinating. How can you be a child actor and continue to be in the industry and all the ancillary people that they know because they've lived there for so long, So you're anticipating, like what friend of theirs is going to walk through the door that Kathy knows all of these people because of society circles and because our husband's in real estate. Like, I think people are kind of interested still for that reason, although I don't know if I get as much layers to who Kyle is because of it, Like I want to know more about Kathy and Kyle's mom and because of her role in their life, how do they live in their own marriages, how do they live as how do they parent their children?

00:37:37
Speaker 2: Because of Big Kathy that is.

00:37:39
Speaker 1: Missing from the show. I need all of that too. So again it goes back to who are the women that exist in the city, What is that the city built around? And are we getting realistic stories from there?

00:37:51
Speaker 3: We all know Beverly Hills is this franchise that people love to hate, but it's also the highest rted so far of all these cities, and it's so like the fan favorite Erica Jane. Last season was super fascinating because of everything you said. We watched these true crime documentaries. We watch American Greed on CNBC that's been on for twenty years, because there is something fascinating about this wealthy guy who who allegedly did something as chievous and his bombshell wife is at the intersect of all of this. And to see Erica Jane for her first couple of years on the show flauned this lifestyle that we were all envious, like work, bitch, oh my gosh, like yes, and to see that all crumbling down because at the end of the day, is human nature to build someone up just to tear them down. And that's why it's no secret that last season was an excellent season. I loved Sutton last season because Sutton represented a nine h two one oh housewife who's like, I don't know if I'm able to rub elbows with you because that could affect my social circle and status in this town. And now you're poisoned, and that, to me should have been the story, which is why I think Eric has said whatever, miss small town, you shut up.

00:39:19
Speaker 4: Well.

00:39:19
Speaker 1: Also, another layer to it is a little bit similar to OC. If you're not in the entertainment industry. No one gives a shit about you. If you're in the entertainment industry, they're looking past your shoulder to see who's much more interesting in the door, you know, So think about somebody who's just the housewife of someone in the financial service industry living in an entertainment town. That is why Sutton was a good cast, because it's a fish out of the water story. She wants to be included in all of this. But if you're not in the entertainment industry, there's a level to which you can't really penetrate. So she becomes a television personality, which, by the way, people who are actresses to me all the time they're like, I can't believe this bit is like got this big following and is being interviewed for like entertainment shows, and I'm like a working actress.

00:40:06
Speaker 2: So there's that too.

00:40:07
Speaker 1: It's like people now hate her because first of all, she didn't work in the entertainment industry. She's got a ton of money, she's got a quirky personality, and also she's getting the privileges of now being a TV personality with no background in entertainment at all. So that they're not cracking open, Like, Lisa, do you hate Sutton because she has all of these attention and Instagram followers when you've actually been working your way up in the entertainment industry for twenty years? Like can we talk about that? You're like how many times have we heard on watch What Happens Live? Like Lisa said, well, I was actually invited to have that opportunity to be interviewed by Maren Morris on the Tonight show, but I couldn't do it. So then they asked she wanted to make sure that even though Sutton was interviewed, that she was the first pick.

00:41:00
Speaker 2: It's a Beverly Hills story. Why is that person chosen? I'm not.

00:41:03
Speaker 1: She doesn't have a background, She's just the TV personality I actually worked. I've been on all these shows, so that's the kind of stuff. I'm just looking for all those layers.

00:41:12
Speaker 3: And that's the reason why the Ultimate Girls tran franchise work is because they were allowed to break the fourth wall and to really talk about what it was like being on the show.

00:41:22
Speaker 4: And I think.

00:41:22
Speaker 3: Because the Real Housewives which listen Bravo punattended to the executives, the creators who built that franchise because it's not easy to build one that is synonymous with reality television.

00:41:35
Speaker 4: But that's the reason why I think.

00:41:37
Speaker 3: A lot of people aren't into it as much as they used to be, because it's sort of like, we need to break the fourth wall in order for this to make sense. We need to talk about again, like what Lisa Rena's going through. What you said with sun. I never looked at it that way, but that is so fascinating. It reminds me of Atlanta. I said, marlow and Kenya have this odd friendship because Marlowe wants Kenya's approval that she deserved a peach, And I think this season on Atlanta could have been so much better if Marlowe was allowed to say I now have a peach, and it has affected my relationship with these women for the past ten years that I built.

00:42:19
Speaker 1: I just have to say this for Atlanta, I've always thought the two most poignant moments have been one when Ninni is in the car. We've talked about it before and she sees her real father for the first time and realizes he looks just like her son, and it was like. The other one is when Kenya opens up about being rejected by her birth mother. I mean, holy shit. So don't you think that a lot of the Kenya Marlowe issues have to do with the deep seated issues of their childhood. Yeah, Marlow's rejected by her real mother, She's got to go through foster care, finally gets accepted by someone. Kenya was rejected by her mother. There are two women that have such similarities but hold back from one another for the same reasons that they have. You know, they have the same emotional problems at the core, and it's like, as a viewer, you're like, oh my god, you could be the best of friends if you could figure that out, but you can't. And I completely get why they're both at other sides of the table.

00:43:22
Speaker 3: And that's the reason why you need a producer who is invested in the show, in the storylines and not doing the low hanging thruit and having an argument like you han't kill deeper guys.

00:43:34
Speaker 1: Respect those women. Yeah, those women are complete, complicated, interesting, phenomenal women, and you would do a much better service to them if you explored how their complicated lives overlap versus these stupid fights that bugs me, Oh.

00:43:52
Speaker 4: It bugs me.

00:43:53
Speaker 3: On Atlanta. It bugs me on Beverly Hills. That's why when Lisa, Renna, and Sutton had that argument at the Reais party across the table that Kyle, who's the ghost producer, set up, because they all feel like, okay, guys, we're at dinner.

00:44:08
Speaker 4: We have to argue.

00:44:10
Speaker 3: That's the reason why it just doesn't work, because we want deeper conversations, we want significant moments, we want something that you can cut your teeth into. So my hope is that if you are a reality TV star or producer listening now, you have to work over time in order to really feel comfortable giving deep moments and don't feel like a scene is great because two women are yelling at each other. It's only great when the yelling moments is because of something significant that happen in their friendships and their relationships.

00:44:46
Speaker 1: I think Kyle should go I think she should just go out now. She's the top of her game, like she's done a great job all these seasons. Her family has a Netflix spin off. I mean, you're going to go to like from Bravo audience to like million subscribers on Netflix. She's going to go into a whole new stratosphere. Now, what reason does she have to be on the show anymore? You know, that's like going from eating M and ms to like eating a giant sized chocolate bar, Like why would you stay? Like, I think she's done enough, She's done a great job. Go out with the bank, Go out, Derek Jeter after the three thousand pit. Stop playing. You don't need to play anymore. Enjoy the Netflix show with your family.

00:45:30
Speaker 3: What's interesting is the episode a week ago or two weeks ago where Kyle had COVID and she wasn't in the episode at all. Yeah, and Kate, it was a boring episode, and I'm like, it's because the first multiplier, Kyle isn't there. So listen, while I agree with you that Kyle and Candy should go off because there's going to be much more waiting for them.

00:45:50
Speaker 1: But that's not their problem. They should not have to stay on a show because they make the show. That's not their problem, not someone else's problem. She should have the ability to go, Like, think of all the awesome things Kyle Richards can do if she is not beholden to that show, Like she's really smart, she could come up with some really fantastic new shows. Business opportunities, like she could put much more into all the other ancillary businesses that she works on. It's not her problem that they need her, that's their problem. Why are you going to stay at a job just because.

00:46:24
Speaker 2: They need you?

00:46:25
Speaker 1: Stayed a job because you like it, It fulfills you, you get a lot from it. I'm not saying that she feels that way. I just feel like, go out with a bang. Go out with the bang. You don't need to stay.

00:46:36
Speaker 3: Shad, Candy and Kyle leave their respective shows right now while they're on a high in order to achieve so much greater success that is a waiting on them. Let us know, tweet us and make sure you hashtag reality with the King.

00:46:56
Speaker 4: We talked about Candy and Kyle. So let's go to New Jersey.

00:47:00
Speaker 3: Obviously, the first multiply you New Jersey is Teresa Judais.

00:47:04
Speaker 4: Is it time for Teresa to go? Kate?

00:47:07
Speaker 1: I think she should stay because I just don't know what she could do outside of this show. I don't think she's dynamic enough to have other things. I think the core of that show is the fact that these in laws despise each other and the other women are like houseplants in the corners that need.

00:47:23
Speaker 2: To be watered.

00:47:24
Speaker 1: It's just really about two Italian in laws that fucking hate each other, and I like it. So she should stay because I don't know what else is she going to do. She's like a true television personality. I don't know what she could do outside of the show.

00:47:40
Speaker 3: Okay, fabulous, Okay, the Real Housewives of Orange County. Is it time for Shannon and or Heather to go?

00:47:48
Speaker 1: Heather doesn't need the show. She can go, you know, there's plenty. I don't know what Shannon.

00:47:54
Speaker 2: Could do outside of it.

00:47:55
Speaker 1: I think she should probably just have a really great season where she's really open about I've got a daughter that left for school, and I'm starting to panic because my twins are almost grown up, and the conversation that I have not heard in a housewives Correct me if I'm wrong. If you have been the stay at home mom and your children are now of the age where they're going to leave home, and you've been reliant on the money that came from your marriage and for paying for child support, and suddenly you're at a point where you're in your fifties and you're like, I've got to get a real job and make some income because that money is drying out. That's important. She should talk about that this season. That is really important. And finding out who you are that's a whole that's important too. But like, where's that conversation of like money that drives up in your fifties and you have to go out and find a job and maintain a lifestyle that you're accustomed to.

00:48:47
Speaker 2: That should be her story. If she does it, well, go out with a bang.

00:48:51
Speaker 3: And last, but not least, the Real Housewives in New York City. Obviously we have a legacy edition, but do you still fail? For example, bet Any lap And has done a lot of great stuff with her charity and now she's on a brand new show on CNBC co hosting with Mister Wonderful from Shark Tank. Is it time for Ramona, Sonya, Lwin or Dernda to go?

00:49:15
Speaker 2: Yeah?

00:49:16
Speaker 4: All four?

00:49:17
Speaker 2: Yeah?

00:49:17
Speaker 1: I think their story, I know who they are, I know their stories. I don't know if there's much there left. That's not to say they're not dynamic, interesting women. I'm just saying, for the sake of television, if you're the plight of that producer is like, what's the next layer to this? And I don't know if there are much layers left to tell unless someone is, like, you know, Derenda's like, I'm going to go out and I'm going to start dating again, and I'm having a really difficult time because I'm still clinging to the marriage that i had with Richard. And I mean, it's completely relatable that she would date a douchebag like John because you want something that's not serious because it was such a horre like horrible loss to her Richard, Right, So maybe if it's like her dating, maybe there's something there.

00:50:06
Speaker 2: Ramona, there's nothing left.

00:50:08
Speaker 1: I know that woman. I know her story. I mean, take away what you like or don't like about somebody. For me, it's about the story.

00:50:16
Speaker 2: Like if she showed up to your.

00:50:18
Speaker 1: Dinner party, you're not gonna have an interesting conversation because you already know everything about her. I already know a thing about lu Anne. I'm like, I need some new, fresh story tells. Also for New York, I don't know if those women tell a modern New York story anymore.

00:50:31
Speaker 4: No, I agree with that. Definitely agree with you.

00:50:34
Speaker 1: And also COVID post COVID, New York is a very different city than it was fifteen years ago. So you can't tell the same story. You can't tell the same story with the women. You can't tell the same story about that city.

00:50:47
Speaker 3: Kate, I can talk to you all day. I gotta bite you back over. I had no idea that this episode was going to go in this direction, and I am pleasantly surprised, although I'm not shocked because you and I always have a good time when we talk.

00:51:01
Speaker 4: So where can't people find you?

00:51:03
Speaker 3: Follow you and talk to them about your amazing podcast.

00:51:08
Speaker 1: So Reality Life with katekse you can find anywhere where you listen to podcasts. I have three episodes a week. At the top of the week, I'm going to tell you what to watch an unscripted television. It crosses all genres. I promise you I will find something for all of you in that list. You can get that list at katekc dot.

00:51:24
Speaker 2: Substock dot com.

00:51:25
Speaker 1: Think of me as like your guide to watching great content all week and then Wednesdays and Fridays I have longer former interviews where I interview the hosts, the talent, the producers or the directors and unscripted televisions so that means reality shows, documentaries, and docuseries, so on there. You can find me on Twitter at KKC. You can find me on Instagram at at KKCCA and TikTok at It's Kksey.

00:51:49
Speaker 3: Thoughts, opinions, Email me at Reality with the King at stitri dot com or leave me a voicemail at three one oh five nine three eight one eight eight.

00:52:03
Speaker 4: Thank you for listening to Reality with the King.

00:52:06
Speaker 3: New episodes drop every Wednesday and Friday, Share, comment, follow, and subscribe to Reality with the King. Wherever you get your podcast, visit realitywithe King dot com and be sure to follow me at the Carlos King Underscore on Instagram and Twitter. Reality with the King is a production of More Sauce by Stitcher. It is executive produced by Me, Carlos King, and Jasmine Henley Brown. We are also produced by Sierras Bradley Rix, engineering and music by Marcus Ham More Sauce