Pablo Escobar’s Cocaine Pilot: The Untold Story of TJ Dominguez (Part 3 of 3)

[SPEAKER_03]: My name is Tito, the Kwame T. J. Tito.
[SPEAKER_03]: Pablo says he knows me, and he says I was his biggest transporter.
[SPEAKER_03]: Door bursted open, and they came in, like, something out of a movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: They had blocked off the whole neighborhood.
[SPEAKER_03]: Doesn't say these guys with automatic weapons are right for us on my head.
[SPEAKER_04]: I want to know what solitary is like because you did two to three years.
[SPEAKER_03]: What's it like picture being dead?
[SPEAKER_03]: They don't turn off the light.
[SPEAKER_03]: Light's around all the time.
[SPEAKER_03]: I couldn't even flush my own toilet.
[SPEAKER_03]: I bought a helicopter.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's got a pilot.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I want to create kind of prison.
[SPEAKER_03]: took a hundred and twenty homes away from me.
[SPEAKER_03]: I had to give everything up.
[SPEAKER_03]: I always talk about putting Humpty Dumpty Pack together again.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm doing it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'd like to consider myself really a professional at whatever I do.
[SPEAKER_03]: I got into the car business.
[SPEAKER_03]: I became the number one Lamborghini dealer in the world.
[SPEAKER_03]: Nobody saw more cars than I did.
[SPEAKER_03]: Also, I was the biggest cell phone company of South Florida.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then when I became a smuggler, I got all the way up to Pablo Escobar.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I became, don't quote me by his book.
[SPEAKER_03]: He says, I was his main transporter.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's easy for me to say,
[SPEAKER_03]: Pablo is in Pablo, that Pablo's dead, but Pablo says he knows me and he says I was his biggest transporter.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did the complete leg, I landed in the jungle, brought a door to door.
[SPEAKER_03]: I kind of considered myself kind of like FedEx, I deliver for you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Tito, welcome back.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm so happy that you are here for part three of our series on your life.
[SPEAKER_04]: I know people could not wait for this episode to finally come out.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's recap really quickly.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, in a few minutes or less, let's just talk about where we are in the story.
[SPEAKER_04]: You became a con artist, essentially because you were you were a con.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, excuse me, yes, I don't know the terminology, but you were conned at the beginning of your life.
[SPEAKER_04]: After your father died, you wanted to fulfill what he said, you know, to you, to make his sugarmel into existence and you were unable to do that because of somebody that congealed.
[SPEAKER_03]: Continuously, I guess, got kicked at the curve conned.
[SPEAKER_03]: They told me it was what bind the heirs.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was an inexperienced young kid and then circumstances that happened get pushing me
[SPEAKER_03]: further and further into just taking a control of my life and that's when I decided to become a smuggler.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I bought a small speedboat and I went to the Bahamas and I brought back some weed in marijuana.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know circumstances in my life that happened, yeah, maybe I made some bad choices.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, they were good or bad, but at the time, the choices I made in a liberal room.
[SPEAKER_03]: A liberal room in unfortunately, you know, the name of your podcast,
[SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of sad that people classify you for a one mistake that maybe you made in life.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's a little misunderstanding there.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I live the long life and there's some of the things that I did that I considered to have been great, but I'm just remembered for being Pablo's main transporter.
[SPEAKER_04]: right right well i love that you said that all right so where we are in the story though is that you have everything right you are at the top of the game you're making what five million dollars a week no let me tell you this i worked on water yeah that's what i believe okay so you had a fleet of planes of boats you had dozens and dozens of people working for you you were rich okay hundreds you were the man you were making essentially what 20 million dollars a month
[SPEAKER_03]: back in those days with today's money would be like 80, 75 on your million.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: And not only that, we're at the point where Pablo Escobar says he cannot pay you in cash.
[SPEAKER_04]: So he's going to pay you in cocaine.
[SPEAKER_04]: So now you become a cocaine kingpin.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're in your own right.
[SPEAKER_03]: That at all, Rachel.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't, you know, I don't want to be a drug dealer because in essence he forces me to become a drug.
[SPEAKER_03]: dealer.
[SPEAKER_03]: I hate that word.
[SPEAKER_03]: I consider myself a smuggler and that's the world that I wanted to stay in just doing delivery.
[SPEAKER_03]: But because he couldn't pay me quick enough, you know, I'm bringing in a thousand kilos.
[SPEAKER_03]: He owes me 5 million in cash.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I gave him half of the product and why have?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I'm not chasing anybody from money.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, I'm actually becoming my own
[SPEAKER_04]: Wait, did he consider you a competition at any time?
[SPEAKER_03]: No, not at all.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I know that if I put myself out there, now all of a sudden, I'm owed $5 million.
[SPEAKER_03]: It went to me to go again and do another trip.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's $10 million that I would be owed by Pablo Escobar.
[SPEAKER_03]: How do you collect on Pablo?
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, that's a great question, but my question is, why didn't he have the cash to give you?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because from a business point of view,
[SPEAKER_03]: cocaine back in those days even today in Colombia was less than a thousand dollars.
[SPEAKER_03]: So if he pakes me with coke, he doesn't have the reach for five million in hard US currency.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's paying me with cocaine that the value to him is maybe three hundred dollars a kilo.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so as we've already gotten to in the story, there have been plenty of times where you thought your luck had run out and you thought that the cops were on to you, the feds were on to you, there was a couple times they were right in front of your home, it ends up being for a different situation and a different person, so you got to celebrate.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, in our last episode, we really get to the point where your luck is run out, and your family, up until this point, has had no idea of the kind of business you were in, and the person that you trusted that we talked about in episode 1, this guy, Jack, who was living in the guest house of some woman, not even able to rent is now making millions of dollars, has a drug and women
[SPEAKER_04]: And essentially, screws you and turns you in at the end of the day.
[SPEAKER_04]: So let's talk about because we didn't really get into it the day that you were arrested.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's got to be a huge story.
[SPEAKER_04]: So can you can you walk us through that that day?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, slowly but surely I kept.
[SPEAKER_03]: seeing that the end was nearing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just didn't know how close it was.
[SPEAKER_03]: At one point in time, I actually had people in the Grand Jury.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I had a copy of the indictment before it came out.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: I had the name, so everybody that was getting indicted.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so the only question that reminded my mind was, when is this going to happen?
[SPEAKER_03]: And then one night,
[SPEAKER_03]: Every night I went to sleep, I went to sleep thinking that this might be my last day that I'm free and be with my family.
[SPEAKER_04]: And who's in the house at this point?
[SPEAKER_04]: You're married.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, at the time I'm with my girl and then my sister had developed a cancer from smoking.
[SPEAKER_03]: So she was in the hospital.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it was my sister.
[SPEAKER_03]: My other sister got two sisters one past away.
[SPEAKER_03]: at the time we weren't married, but we were already engaged in married.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I actually remember saying to her one night, if something happens to me, would you stand by my side, and she said, although it would be by your side, and that night.
[SPEAKER_03]: about four o'clock in the morning, five o'clock in the morning that door bursted open and they came in like something out of a movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was dozens and dozens of them.
[SPEAKER_03]: I get done by fourth, five age and see.
[SPEAKER_03]: So when you tell me up, there probably a few hundred people had helicopters that had blocked off the whole neighborhood, not one block.
[SPEAKER_03]: But they had cord off everything barricaded it and it was amazing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I walked up to the doors They were all running in at me like an army.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's only one guy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Come on.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love it's me You know, I might be bad, but I don't think I'm bad You know, so it's like dozens of these guys with automatic weapons rifles on my head I tell them I put my hands up in the air and I said if seniors in the movies No need for that violence my hands are up.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm gonna kneel down
[SPEAKER_03]: I get on my knees, lay down there, put me on the floor and I got rifles all over my head, pointing and hitting me with the point of the rifle.
[SPEAKER_03]: These guys were so hyped up, they looked like they were on drugs.
[SPEAKER_03]: I said, man, get you got darn rifles off my head.
[SPEAKER_03]: When you guys are so nervous, you're gonna shoot me by accident.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they're like all hyped up, you know?
[SPEAKER_03]: Then the lead agent, the gemco, it's his name, the lead agent of the DEA, he says, get the rifles away from him.
[SPEAKER_03]: and then they said me on a chair, and then they started parading through my house like a circus.
[SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: OK, a couple questions.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why, you know, what was your mindset?
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm assuming it sounds like you didn't, you didn't have guns all by your bed, because you thought you wanted to end it if they were going to come in.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, so you were OK with going to prison?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's not like, how could I be?
[SPEAKER_02]: If I've got any regrets that I got popped, OK?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you totally honest with you.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I mean, it's not like if they were coming in, I know you've told a story before that you didn't want to go to prison.
[SPEAKER_04]: So there was a guy who was going to shoot it out until there was an end.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, and that was that guy.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: But so you didn't feel that way.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, no, because no one guns going to stop the federal government.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, so it'd be foolish.
[SPEAKER_03]: So there's other ways of getting around this, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And at that point, I wasn't thinking that far ahead.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was living the moment and dealing with the moment I came up.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you weren't saying, I'm going to take my life before I'm going to go.
[SPEAKER_04]: I love myself too much.
[SPEAKER_04]: I can't.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: I like hearing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love myself.
[SPEAKER_04]: But what about the options?
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you had planes, you had boats.
[SPEAKER_04]: What about if you knew this was going to come to an end?
[SPEAKER_04]: Why not go to a country that, you know, could it?
[SPEAKER_03]: It would be a coward thing to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm not a coward.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll man up to whatever the situation is.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: And what about the loose can?
[SPEAKER_04]: What about Jack?
[SPEAKER_04]: Did you ever think this guy's got to be taken out?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Killed, whatever.
[SPEAKER_04]: Of course.
[SPEAKER_03]: Of course.
[SPEAKER_04]: And do you regret that that didn't happen?
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, what do your thoughts on Jack?
[SPEAKER_03]: When I got rid of Jack, not...
[SPEAKER_03]: physically verbally told them you're off my umbrella, you know, I don't want to see you again.
[SPEAKER_03]: That same moment, I had divided my organization into departments.
[SPEAKER_03]: I had an intelligence department, I had a Marine department, I had an aircraft department, I had a transportation, I had the accounting department, and I rented like a corporation.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I called for a meeting with all the heads of
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I said to the get, which is yeah, you're like out of the gun, you know, the crazy nut.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, I had to be careful, I would say like, yeah, I didn't say shoot him, I said I don't like him.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I can't be very clear about that guy.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I call for a meeting and I said, we got a major problem.
[SPEAKER_03]: Jack is going to bring us all down.
[SPEAKER_03]: I actually saw that in a crystal ball.
[SPEAKER_03]: I predicted it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I said, and if you don't believe me, get a piece of paper, put a date on it, put my name on it and I'll sign it.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's going to bring us all down.
[SPEAKER_03]: We got to do something about Jack.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so, ultimately,
[SPEAKER_04]: the feds or someone catches Jack because of his cocaine problem because of whatever problems he had.
[SPEAKER_04]: And because he was such a nobody, essentially, he needed to basically out you to get himself a deal.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, what did he end up with?
[SPEAKER_03]: Really sad because as soon as he got popped, I heard about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I provided him with lawyers.
[SPEAKER_03]: I went to see his wife.
[SPEAKER_03]: I put tons of money in her bank account.
[SPEAKER_03]: I put $10,000 in his
[SPEAKER_03]: operating prisoner account, which I think was a max of something like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I wanted to him to understand, I'm here for you.
[SPEAKER_03]: I sent him a message, I'll break you out of prison, bring you over to South America, Brazil was a country that there is no extradition if you marry a local.
[SPEAKER_03]: I planned that whole thing out and then he decides to flip on me and give me up.
[SPEAKER_03]: Which is pretty sad.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so let's go back to the point where you're in your bedroom.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're sitting in a chair.
[SPEAKER_04]: They have guns pointed at you.
[SPEAKER_04]: They're going to your house.
[SPEAKER_04]: What?
[SPEAKER_04]: They cut you off to jail?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: You don't get that on bail, obviously.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, my bonhearings are like maybe five, 10, 20 minutes of bonhearing.
[SPEAKER_03]: My bonhearing is on record in Broward County.
[SPEAKER_03]: It went almost three days.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we talked about that in the last episode.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you're in jail now.
[SPEAKER_04]: Doors closed.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_04]: How often had you been in jail before this?
[SPEAKER_04]: Never.
[SPEAKER_04]: OK, so for someone who's living the life of a radical change.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it is a radical change to say the least.
[SPEAKER_04]: What was that like?
[SPEAKER_03]: helpless feeling at the very beginning actually was a satisfaction that I felt when I got pop when I got arrested.
[SPEAKER_03]: You would say, wow, why would you say that?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because the cat and mouse game got to such a point being followed with a helicopter every day, two, three times a day.
[SPEAKER_03]: There was a chopper in my eyes or my parking lot following me in a car with a helicopter on top of my car.
[SPEAKER_03]: The pressure was so great.
[SPEAKER_03]: Having dinner, they're sitting
[SPEAKER_03]: And that came to an end.
[SPEAKER_03]: So when that happened, I felt a relief of pressure and I said, okay, new game, new set of rules.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now I've got to fight for my freedom.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that was kind of a different type of feeling.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now I'm gonna go and defend myself.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I felt helpless, but I still felt like I could walk on water.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I believed in the American way.
[SPEAKER_03]: You gotta get your hand caught in the cookie jar.
[SPEAKER_03]: Under the work conspiracy, you just need three people to lie and back up the lie and That's it.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're you're going away for a long, long time.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that was a rule awakening to the real heart Facts of life, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: And even if you had the best lawyer, it really seems like it didn't match I had the best lawyer.
[SPEAKER_03]: I had a flea Bailey at the time one of the world's most famous lawyers I told him to buy a remote control to start his car up every morning and let's you give me my money back Right
[SPEAKER_04]: And we talk about that in one of the prior episodes, too.
[SPEAKER_04]: So eventually, he gives you your money back, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: And you're able to hire some other lawyers.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you are up for life in prison.
[SPEAKER_04]: And tell us how you got out of that.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, essentially, you had to cut a deal.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was kind of funny, too, because one prosecutor told me, I'll indict you over every state you flew over.
[SPEAKER_03]: I get indicted in Georgia, New York, Florida, Southern District, Middle District, the Bahamas.
[SPEAKER_03]: Detroit, one prosecutor in Detroit says blah, blah, blah, blah, I'll end that you over, I said, you know what?
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't really care how many times you indict me.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I said, yeah, I don't believe in reincarnation.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've only got one life to give, so I'm only gonna give it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm only gonna get worried about one life.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't even indict me in 20 different states.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm only gonna die one time.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's in debt you because what you flew over the state.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Did you land there?
[SPEAKER_04]: Did you not complain there?
[SPEAKER_03]: No, over airspace.
[SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_03]: They technically under the term conspiracy can and die you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Use a phone in that area.
[SPEAKER_03]: If anything that happens regarding a location, the conspiracy becomes an entity and it takes a life form.
[SPEAKER_03]: If I have a conversation in your life, in your house about smuggling and you were aware,
[SPEAKER_03]: they can come and take your house right wow that's the life of that's a fact
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm a, they made a believer out of me.
[SPEAKER_03]: They took a hundred and twenty homes away from me.
[SPEAKER_04]: Wow, my gosh.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so F. Lee Bailey is telling you, listen, I could get you 18 months, but you got to flip on people.
[SPEAKER_04]: You got to become a rat.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, correct.
[SPEAKER_04]: You say no to that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely not.
[SPEAKER_04]: But you ultimately say, okay, I'll, I'll cop a deal.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll tell you where the money stored, the drugs.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll fighting everything.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I will give you the playbook as to how I did this.
[SPEAKER_03]: Correct.
[SPEAKER_04]: And for that, they gave you 13 years.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I didn't get the 13 years all at one time.
[SPEAKER_03]: I ended up doing two split sentences.
[SPEAKER_03]: I get out on a thing called parole.
[SPEAKER_03]: Back in the day before 1988, you would get a 10-year sentence when you're doing 18 months in.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then the rest you're doing in parole.
[SPEAKER_04]: OK.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, but it's very strict.
[SPEAKER_04]: But why do you go back?
[SPEAKER_03]: I go back because I get re-indicted and I get violated.
[SPEAKER_04]: Got it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Did you do something to violate your throne?
[SPEAKER_03]: A association with somebody that has a criminal history, even though I mean I know it's recent to put me back.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh I see.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so you were fraternizing with somebody who was a former criminal, okay, but it wasn't like you were up thrown cocaine around to be.
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: fine so you've done at this so now as of today you've done a total of about 13 years 13 years somebody would say would you not know how much no you don't look at calendars when you're in prison yeah what is that like i mean i keep if somebody told me i had to stay in my own house which is very nice for a month and not leave i i couldn't do i don't know if i could do that for a week i mean it's terrible well you know
[SPEAKER_03]: doing time you got to learn how to do time of time he's going to do you so you have to mentally say I'm here I've got to commit to this what does that mean you have to make friends you've to have a job no I didn't even go in you had some horrible experiences that I could tell you about friends you know I mean one guy says you know you're really a big guy and
[SPEAKER_03]: I said, wow, I don't know you know me.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know I've gained a little bit of weight and this guy was like a bit like a gorilla, okay?
[SPEAKER_03]: And so he wanted me to pay protection if you could believe that.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I said protection.
[SPEAKER_03]: I said, let me explain something to you.
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't come here to be your buddy or your friend.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I stand back.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm gonna hit this guy.
[SPEAKER_03]: but you almost have to take that top of an attitude.
[SPEAKER_03]: Otherwise, Rachel, they're putting an apron on you and you're mopping floors and becoming a high voice in your dome.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I looked at the guy and I said, I didn't come here to be your friend.
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't want to miss your own guys like me.
[SPEAKER_03]: I said, I will hurt you.
[SPEAKER_03]: I will hurt you.
[SPEAKER_03]: I will hurt you.
[SPEAKER_03]: You got a family?
[SPEAKER_03]: I hurt your family.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the day you get out, I'll be out there.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll have people waiting on the parking lot.
[SPEAKER_03]: you know for you I said you don't even don't even say hello to me don't ask me what time it is because I'm not here to be your buddy
[SPEAKER_03]: So you have to take that out of to sometimes, yes, you have to fight.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's got to be pretty lonely if you can't really obviously can't trust anybody and we'll get into that because you did trust somebody and they ruined your big advantage plans.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're sitting here in the table with you breaking bread with you and giving you up to a guard for an extra meal or a cheese or whatever.
[SPEAKER_04]: So when you think of that time in prison though and and I want to get into the two to three years you spent in solitary, but in prison in general, was it
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, just absolutely terrible, or was it okay at that point?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, you know, one thing about prison, they have different categories, the opinion who you are.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was what they call central monitoring category, Washington, DC, always had to know where I was at.
[SPEAKER_03]: I couldn't just change rooms from A to B, like regular prisoner could do.
[SPEAKER_03]: You go up to the garden.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, hey, I want to move to another room.
[SPEAKER_03]: If it's available, they'll let you move.
[SPEAKER_03]: In my case, because of who in my history, it would have to be cleared by Washington.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's called Central Monitoring in-made.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I did hard time.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was always, I didn't go to one of these camps where people were playing golf.
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't do all that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was in solitary.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was in penitentiaries.
[SPEAKER_03]: I saw stabbing, all that type of stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it was hard time that I did.
[SPEAKER_03]: outside of solitary how were you in a cell with roommates was it yeah yeah outside of solitary I was in one man's two men's cell okay good you read a book could you play car yeah yeah I could read a book I got a lot of magazines I probably got one two magazines said they I became like like the goat the goat you got from magazines
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, so I, in, in the little world that I was in, I did the best that I could actually wrote a book when I was in there.
[SPEAKER_03]: You couldn't have a tie brighter, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Impressing, you're too impossible.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I didn't have one.
[SPEAKER_03]: I had two of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, when somebody came up to me, how'd you get that typewriter?
[SPEAKER_03]: Can I borrow it?
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, but you've got one.
[SPEAKER_03]: I said, no, you're wrong.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't have one.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've got two.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're hard to get.
[SPEAKER_04]: How'd you get that?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, you know, I'm very good at whatever I decide to do.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, does that mean though that the guards you paid them off?
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, I mean, did they have to get creative?
[SPEAKER_04]: They look the other way.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have to get a little creative.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, because you can't stick that up your shirt when you go visit them.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, it's like, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm proud of it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so someone had you, and then not only the time for it, how about the ribbons that go with it, how about the paper, how about the magic marker?
[SPEAKER_03]: How about I need now copies?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I was able to do all of that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And could you have visitors?
[SPEAKER_03]: When I was in solitary confinement, no, one phone call 10 minutes, one some month.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then the guard would give me the phone and say, nobody home, try next month.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was an outright lie.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's talk about solitary, but before we get into that, let's talk about what got you into solitary.
[SPEAKER_04]: You spoke in our last episode about how you came up with a plan with a helicopter and you were going to escape.
[SPEAKER_04]: So let's talk about that a little more.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you come up with this plan.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're like, I'm not staying here.
[SPEAKER_04]: What was the plan?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, the plan was really simple, you know, let me go back to when I said before, I didn't want to leave because I'm not a coward.
[SPEAKER_03]: So why would I be now cowarding up and leaving?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, because I noticed that the deck was stacked.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, three days in trial for bonhearing and everything was just coming up on their side.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I said, well, you know what, and he said rules, I need to go ahead get the heck out of dodge and then I will regroup circle the wagons and maybe we could talk.
[SPEAKER_04]: And wait, Sidebar, at any point where you're thinking, now Pablo has a lot to lose if I turn on him.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's going to come safe for me.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's going to find a way to get me out of here.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_03]: Not that he's got a lot to lose because he's one of the richest man in the world, but he would have the revamp his organization.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I knew all the players.
[SPEAKER_03]: I knew the reps.
[SPEAKER_03]: I knew the house.
[SPEAKER_03]: I knew the cards.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, so.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he just didn't show up, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, no, he's saving more public couldn't come.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: But he sent me a lawyer.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: and American lawyer paid by him and a private detective that was from Columbia.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I was able to talk about certain things that I knew that it actually came from them.
[SPEAKER_03]: Got it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: So he asked me questions about what I was planning on doing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was going to cooperate.
[SPEAKER_03]: I told me I'm going to cooperate, but I'm not giving anybody up.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to tell him anything they want to hear now, but I have a different set of plans.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I want to, you know, break, break out of prison.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I don't know any.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so how, if I was sitting there as your cellmate, and you were going to be like, here's what's happening.
[SPEAKER_04]: What was the plan?
[SPEAKER_03]: The plan was really simple.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was actually a great plan.
[SPEAKER_03]: I made a mistake of trusting one person.
[SPEAKER_03]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, you have to, I guess.
[SPEAKER_03]: The plan was really great.
[SPEAKER_03]: I bought a helicopter, it flew over the prison a couple of times.
[SPEAKER_03]: The purpose of the helicopter was only to jump me over the fence.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: There was going to land inside the prison, take you over, let you out.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Most people would, okay, I buy a helicopter.
[SPEAKER_03]: The purpose is to take me over the fence.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, the way I laid out the plan, and obviously I didn't talk to my roommate or anybody else.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did a lot of homework on what it would be, the downsides on these things.
[SPEAKER_03]: The pilot, I told him, the money I'm going to pay you break it down the maximum, you could get for this by the guideline, is five years.
[SPEAKER_03]: So break down a hundred grand, hundred and fifty, two hundred grand into five years.
[SPEAKER_03]: It'll be worth it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so they don't shoot at you because they don't know if I have a family of your his hostage.
[SPEAKER_03]: They won't shoot at you.
[SPEAKER_03]: They won't shoot at me.
[SPEAKER_03]: They won't shoot at the chopper pilot.
[SPEAKER_02]: I see.
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is not a James Bond movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm not going to jump like Tom Cruise and hang on to these kids.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to walk up to the goddamn thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Anybody else that you see that doesn't look like me?
[SPEAKER_03]: Shoot at their feet.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm going to walk up to the chopper.
[SPEAKER_03]: I laid all this out very carefully.
[SPEAKER_03]: I found out that the DEA had a black hog helicopter in Tammy Aming, not far from where I was at, but it would take them about five minutes to get that chopper up in the air looking for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: In this length of time, I fly over the fence.
[SPEAKER_03]: I take the chopper to a lake and I put the chopper in the lake.
[SPEAKER_03]: like drown it yeah exactly with me in it okay yeah the idea is to disappear the chopper so everybody's looking for a chopper all right so they're looking in the air instead of on the land right got it and in the time they're going up you're coming down
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, great plan.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: Really, really, what work.
[SPEAKER_04]: Wait.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, how'd you guys ever practice to put in a helicopter in the water?
[SPEAKER_03]: No, not make it common in.
[SPEAKER_03]: It says to me that when as soon as the the the the blades hit the water, they're going to stop.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we got to hold your breath long enough.
[SPEAKER_03]: I told them bring a small air tank.
[SPEAKER_03]: I used to smoke back in those days.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how long I can hold my breath.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I said bring a small air tank.
[SPEAKER_03]: Put it on my mouth, the kind of you see that's maybe just a but size of a foot or so.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'll I need it as ten minutes, five minutes of air.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we put the chopper down on the lake.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I wait for the rotor to stop spinning.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, because you can't jump out first, so you get killed by the, right, right, right, right, right.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I have a car waiting for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the lake.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I go from the chopper to the car.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now I go to
[SPEAKER_03]: I've got an airplane where they're waiting for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: So then I jump on the airplane, I flight the Haiti.
[SPEAKER_03]: My dad's old sugar mill had a landing strip there.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I made arrangements with Haitian individuals to have fuel for me on the air.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was a landing strip, it was dirt, you know, grass.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I made arrangements for them to expect me to fly in then what I was planning on doing was staying in Haiti for a few days.
[SPEAKER_03]: until kind of like settled down and then taking that same airplane, which didn't have a capacity to all the way straight down to the jungles on Columbia and then take that airplane and fly into the same lab where I was landing and then just then adjust to the situation, whatever, call for a planning on going to Columbia in the jungles and then sending a lot of cocaine and then a new trap there begins again.
[SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, but what about your family?
[SPEAKER_04]: Then would you have called your family?
[SPEAKER_03]: No, my family.
[SPEAKER_03]: My wife, she was 19 years old, great looking girl, beautiful, and I will draw you at this time.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was probably like 30 something.
[SPEAKER_03]: And she was one of the few people that I could trust.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so she knew that this could be the plan and she was willing, so she was willing to go.
[SPEAKER_03]: Help me.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: Side note, did she end up divorcing you?
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I ended up basically.
[SPEAKER_03]: she's a great girl but I don't like to argue and you know and then all of a sudden life is different when I came home you know I mean now I have to work now I have to do this and
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, she wants she's demanding more and more in my time.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't give you anymore in my time.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've got to go out there and work.
[SPEAKER_04]: But she stayed with you through your prison time.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my God, she was the first one there.
[SPEAKER_03]: The last one to leave.
[SPEAKER_03]: She was amazing.
[SPEAKER_03]: That the day I've got the highest respect for that girl.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, that's amazing.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think you're the, I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_04]: It didn't work out.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, things happened.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that wasn't the last one.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Anyway.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: far out from the plan.
[SPEAKER_04]: Did it all come down on you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I first of all, wait, were you like, this is full proof?
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, this is it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, it was definitely full proof.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you're like, I know it.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is the plan.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is it happening on Thursday and Tuesday?
[SPEAKER_03]: You get caught, essentially.
[SPEAKER_03]: Happening.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have my chopper fly over the prison to pick the spot.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you see the chopper?
[SPEAKER_04]: You're like, oh, wow.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're in.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: I had a guy by the name of
[SPEAKER_03]: John Cheney dead now, so I guess I could say a name.
[SPEAKER_03]: 57 priors, he was a professional hitter, you know, a racer, whatever you want to call him, and he was part of my crew.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I made one mistake.
[SPEAKER_03]: I knew that, and I liked them a lot, and I said, John, I can't take everybody.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I could take you because you're facing a lot of violent time from before, you know?
[SPEAKER_03]: And he says, you know, you're kidding me.
[SPEAKER_03]: I says, no, matter of fact, the trope is coming by today to pick the spot.
[SPEAKER_03]: So the trope applies over, he sees it, it's real.
[SPEAKER_03]: So he says, what about everybody?
[SPEAKER_03]: What are you going to do about the rest of the crew?
[SPEAKER_04]: So I said, so at this time, sorry, did you pick him?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because he was friend of yours kind of or the fact that he had a really violent passing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought that they were going to try to slam him.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, God.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, okay, but so it's not like you wanted to bring him because you thought he would be helpful in the future.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't even get one guy in the chopper with me.
[SPEAKER_04]: But why tell anyone why bring anyone?
[SPEAKER_03]: I liked him.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was a good guy.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he had no family here, no kids.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I thought that, well, you know, maybe I could use him.
[SPEAKER_04]: God, okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because he will shoot you quick.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: So what happened?
[SPEAKER_04]: Why did he decide to
[SPEAKER_04]: This would have been a great opportunity.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, it was.
[SPEAKER_04]: And what's he there for life?
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I was in there.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was like my number three or four.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was at one point when I first started out smuggling.
[SPEAKER_03]: He became kind of like a half-assed partner because he was my buyer of marijuana.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then, but he was such, he was always around me, always around me.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I mostly started the painting on him a lot.
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't have to go shopping for buyers.
[SPEAKER_03]: He handled all of that.
[SPEAKER_03]: The problem was he was a real, real, loose cannon
[SPEAKER_03]: And I basically terminated that that that partnership sort of, you know, but he was likable.
[SPEAKER_04]: But he was in prison with you at the same time.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, but how long how much more of his time did he have to go?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, what I, you know, we all got arrested at the same day.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so he didn't know or Dino was at the same time.
[SPEAKER_04]: Got it.
[SPEAKER_04]: So he didn't know how long he was up for life or whatever.
[SPEAKER_04]: You guys didn't know how long.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was the number one in the indictment and then he was like number two or three or four.
[SPEAKER_03]: Got it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And according to the indictment names how they appear, your ranking value.
[SPEAKER_03]: Got it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he was up there in the top four five.
[SPEAKER_04]: So what happened?
[SPEAKER_04]: He thought that if he was.
[SPEAKER_03]: What happened?
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't know anything.
[SPEAKER_03]: I trusted him because I didn't know not to trust them.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I knew he was irresponsible.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was a real man's man from the point of view of, you know, facing to a situation.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I actually thought that I could use him and I was another and a reason why I handpicked him.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so he says, what about the guys, what are you going to do about the guys?
[SPEAKER_03]: So he said, Pablo sent me a rep and he wanted to know what I was going to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I told Pablo have four problems.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, he said, well, the problem is that one problem with Jack, one problem with CJ and Alonus, if I got the other two guys names, those are the problems I've got.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I said the Pablo, I don't have to tell you how to handle this situation, do I?
[SPEAKER_03]: I said that to a rep that private detective that came to see me, I said that to him in person.
[SPEAKER_03]: So he says, no, we got this.
[SPEAKER_03]: Where are they?
[SPEAKER_03]: I said, Jack isn't such in such a location and I give them the location.
[SPEAKER_03]: So these people, these people go away.
[SPEAKER_03]: The case is beatable because there's no other witnesses unless people start folding and flipping.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, so that being said, he goes, okay, now little that I know he runs to a phone, calls to prostate cuter, tells the prostate to get it that I ordered a hit on the federal judge.
[SPEAKER_03]: and on the agents and that I bought a helicopter to escape and you witnessed a helicopter coming flying low over the prison.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, Neil is the, you don't order a hit on a federal judge and, you know, and there's repercussions that have.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, I got picked up immediately by what they call the sword steam, a bunch of goons and taken into solitary case.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you were just in your cell when this happened, essentially.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was in a regular prisoner with everybody else.
[SPEAKER_03]: I held everybody together.
[SPEAKER_03]: I paid for a lot of the other lawyers for my other codependents.
[SPEAKER_03]: We ate lunch together, we set together, and I made sure that I kept everybody a group.
[SPEAKER_03]: As long as I was out there, nobody was folding.
[SPEAKER_03]: Everybody was tight, you know, nuclears, except for John, John had done this on the side.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I mean, the moment they came in and said, we now know what you're doing.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're going to solitary.
[SPEAKER_04]: Were you reading a book in the cell?
[SPEAKER_03]: No, they told me anything.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not me in solitary.
[SPEAKER_03]: They had one guy in there with me, which was really funny because later on, I find out.
[SPEAKER_03]: The one guy that was in the cell with me was an agent.
[SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, wow.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why did they thought they could get more of them?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because they want, you know, now he receives me as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: What did they put you in here for?
[SPEAKER_03]: What's going on with you?
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, oh, I heard about you, you know, and then he starts asking me questions about, are they coming that this hate squad that's gonna kill these federal judge, you know, all this?
[SPEAKER_03]: Are they coming from abroad?
[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of times you bring in somebody from South America to do a hate.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then you put them back on the plane, you're bringing them back.
[SPEAKER_04]: got it.
[SPEAKER_04]: So they're more they want to know more about this hit that wasn't a real thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: They didn't really care that point about the helicopter.
[SPEAKER_03]: They wanted to know about what agents been targeted and and what judge.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, the judge went under the U.S.
[SPEAKER_03]: Marshall's gave the judge federal protection for a long period of time.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because of this.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm curious.
[SPEAKER_03]: Which is a lie, by the way, I have to say it was not a, you know, through.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: I want to know what solitary is like, because you did two to three years there and, and, and is it really what it's like a movie's where it's dark and it's cold and it's small and it's actually just the opposite.
[SPEAKER_03]: They don't turn off the lights.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh wow.
[SPEAKER_03]: Lights around all the time, all the time, all the time, all the time.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, what's it like picture being dead?
[SPEAKER_03]: Picture yourself being dead.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's nobody to listen to you.
[SPEAKER_03]: No complaining.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're totally helpless.
[SPEAKER_03]: Soul help is Rachel Badne.
[SPEAKER_03]: The solitary confinement that I was in, I couldn't even flush my own toilet.
[SPEAKER_03]: Had to be flush from the outside for fear that you flood the room.
[SPEAKER_03]: So self-contained 24 hours of light.
[SPEAKER_03]: In order to sleep, I had to wrap like a t-shirt around my eyes.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I remember sitting there saying to myself,
[SPEAKER_03]: Or am I talking low because you just don't know and then no mirror, and which is really crazy He stopped or you start to forget what you look like Which is pretty crazy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it really is and you know two years into this thing Am I getting gray as my hair falling out?
[SPEAKER_03]: I try to see myself on the toilet water
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I remember there was the only thing that opened up in that door was a little like maybe three four inch lid on the door and then I would get on my hands And there was another cell opposite of me and I'd ask that guy whenever they came time to feed you that's a little door that they'd slide to trade because they're not bars you saw the steel door right
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's not like you can even talk to the guy.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, so when they open up this little door, I screamed out to that guy across, hey man, what do I look like?
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, is my hair white?
[SPEAKER_03]: Is it gray?
[SPEAKER_03]: What's, is that you look good, man?
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I was sad.
[SPEAKER_04]: That makes me really sad for you.
[SPEAKER_04]: What's?
[SPEAKER_04]: And what could you do all day?
[SPEAKER_04]: No books?
[SPEAKER_03]: No, no, yeah, you can have books.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can have nothing metal.
[SPEAKER_03]: OK.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can have books as long as they were paper back.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, no hard books.
[SPEAKER_03]: OK.
[SPEAKER_04]: Could you take your typewriter, I assume not.
[SPEAKER_03]: Can I do one?
[SPEAKER_04]: Take your typewriter.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, typewriter came after everyone.
[SPEAKER_03]: When I came out of solitary confinement.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you got it.
[SPEAKER_04]: OK.
[SPEAKER_04]: So could you get a pen and a paper?
[SPEAKER_04]: Could you write pencil and so on?
[SPEAKER_03]: And no sharpener.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you have the basically bite the pencil, the lid off, in order for you to sharpen it.
[SPEAKER_03]: or on the concrete floor.
[SPEAKER_03]: What about a window?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you had a little slit window, you know?
[SPEAKER_03]: And then they take you out three times, I think it's three, every three days you get a bath.
[SPEAKER_03]: They put me in a cage, handcuffed, inside a teleroom.
[SPEAKER_03]: You've seen these old telephone booth from England where they're like a little cubicle type thing, you know, two by two, way.
[SPEAKER_03]: and they put you in there with a faucet on top and then a handcuffed, okay?
[SPEAKER_03]: You tell me, I'll give you a shower of me handcuffed.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, they take the handcuffs once you're in sight locked in that little cage, like a shark cage.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, they sit you there and they turn the water on.
[SPEAKER_03]: And now it's cold as hell, by the way.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they keep you there until the guy finishes reading his little playboy book, whatever the hell he's doing.
[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, so you sit down, you're shivering.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't man, I'm ready to go back in my cell.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I hear you, I shut up, and then the handcuff you again, and they bring you back into there.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I think it's like once a week, they give you a little bit of sunlight and sight on other four walls with a cage on top.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I hadn't seen the moon, I hadn't seen anything in the sun or anything like that for a couple of years.
[SPEAKER_04]: And did they give you a newspaper like could you tell what was going on in the world?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I didn't give you that newspaper.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: And a lot of times, you know, it didn't get there.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, they just play a lot of mental games with you.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'd rather get beat up of the two-by-four than have these, um, I'd like to share one quick story with you if I, if I may, with a garden.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's got a little window about four inches wide, square, plexiglass, probably three inches thick, and perforated, and a guard goes, hey, you, the mangas, I'm alone.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's nobody in there and never had any roommate because of who I was.
[SPEAKER_03]: And, um, so I look around and I kind of stupid and I go, who me?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you don't look so tough in there.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's screaming at each other.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because it's very hard to hear because there's three inch doors still, you know?
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I slowly walk up to the window and I say to the guy,
[SPEAKER_03]: What do you mean, I don't look so tough, he said, yeah, you don't look so tough in there now.
[SPEAKER_03]: Was it worth it?
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I said, that's a fair question, was what worth it?
[SPEAKER_03]: He says, everything you did was it worth it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Look at you now, your helpless, your pitiful.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I say to the guy, and I mean, I'll ask you something.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to give you an answer to that question.
[SPEAKER_03]: But before that, I want you to just take me out or like, I don't know a couple of questions in my mind.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, how do you get here every day?
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, you know how I got here?
[SPEAKER_03]: I got arrested by five, six, seven, eight, and you can see, hang up to my neck.
[SPEAKER_03]: They kicked my ass all the way to this gig.
[SPEAKER_03]: On the other side of the coin, how do you come here every morning?
[SPEAKER_03]: You jump in a car to drive over here to provide me with security, to bring my breakfast lunch and dinner, the flush my toilet, I said,
[SPEAKER_03]: you don't even have the freedom to call you a wife, hi honey, want to come over for lunch because you're inside a goddamn cage.
[SPEAKER_03]: I said, so let me ask you something.
[SPEAKER_03]: It works in the best scenario.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you don't get fired, you're going to do what?
[SPEAKER_03]: 20, 25 years?
[SPEAKER_03]: You're going to have more time in prison than I have, and you come here by your own accord out of your own free will.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me ask you, if that's worth it, you're going to do more time than me.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm all law.
[SPEAKER_03]: So the guy shook his head and walked away three days later.
[SPEAKER_03]: He comes back and knocks some of my door again.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he's like, the man is coming over here.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, now what?
[SPEAKER_03]: He goes, I haven't slept in three days, man.
[SPEAKER_03]: I said, why is that my problem?
[SPEAKER_03]: He's the biggest of what you told me.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm gonna do more time than you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, if I don't get fired, I'll do 10, 25 years.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, in prison.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I said, well, you know, it's your choice, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Now you know how I got here, that's my will.
[SPEAKER_03]: So he goes, no, he really messed with my head, I said, I didn't mean to him, I was just telling you the facts the way from my point of view.
[SPEAKER_03]: So two weeks went by and he comes back and he said, the man is coming over here.
[SPEAKER_03]: So now I said, no, what?
[SPEAKER_03]: I go over there and he says, hey, listen man, couldn't stop thinking about what you told me.
[SPEAKER_03]: I applied it Miami Beach Police Department, I got accepted.
[SPEAKER_03]: When you get out of here, come by and we'll have a beer together and you change my life.
[SPEAKER_03]: No way.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, way.
[SPEAKER_04]: Have you ever seen him again?
[SPEAKER_04]: because I was too many years in prison.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, oh gosh.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, maybe we should look him up and find out whatever happened to him.
[SPEAKER_04]: Kind of cool.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that is a great story.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so you get out of solitary, you're in prison.
[SPEAKER_04]: At what point do you find out you're getting out?
[SPEAKER_03]: at what point do you find out there's going to be an end to this you're going to go home well I don't know the end I don't know that I'm going to get out even when I decided to cop I hired a guy by the name of frig shorts who was the head of the United States of America organized crime task force for many many years top prosecutor in the nation he won private
[SPEAKER_03]: and then I hired them.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I found out that everybody has home.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm the only guy left in prison.
[SPEAKER_03]: All my code of fandoms, everybody had called the deal.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the guy that I think they did the most did maybe a month.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they all went home.
[SPEAKER_03]: Wow, OK.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right now, something happened in prison.
[SPEAKER_03]: The same guy that ratted me out.
[SPEAKER_03]: John Cheney?
[SPEAKER_03]: He gets re-indicted on some other charge.
[SPEAKER_03]: So they bring him into solitary confinement when I'm sitting, getting a shower.
[SPEAKER_03]: I see him walking by, and he, I see John, and he goes, what the hell are you doing in here?
[SPEAKER_03]: I said, no, what are you doing in here?
[SPEAKER_03]: So he tells me what happened.
[SPEAKER_03]: He said, they're gonna give you life.
[SPEAKER_03]: Is it going to do one?
[SPEAKER_03]: They're going to give you a life.
[SPEAKER_03]: How do you know that?
[SPEAKER_03]: Is it the prosecutor told me?
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm cooperating.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've been home.
[SPEAKER_03]: Everybody's home.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's when I find out that everybody at the, because the lawyers are not really telling me what I want.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're telling me what I want to hear.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, right.
[SPEAKER_03]: But they're not telling me the truth.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I decided to fire all those lawyers on how to truckload of them.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I went and hired Fred Schwarz, he changed my life.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was the catalyst and what actually the government hated me.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, so now I'm hiring one of them.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he was able to spend the story where wait a second.
[SPEAKER_03]: My guy's not all that bad.
[SPEAKER_03]: So he worked out a deal.
[SPEAKER_03]: The deal was that I would give them my day one story wasn't writing anybody out.
[SPEAKER_03]: They wanted to know how I did, what I did, the intelligence, how I broke it down in department.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then they wanted me to stop fighting.
[SPEAKER_03]: 120 homes, I was the biggest cell phone company.
[SPEAKER_03]: my construction company, the money that I had in Europe, the cars, I was the number one Lamborghini dealer of the world, the property sold for like, I don't know, 30, 40 million dotted later on.
[SPEAKER_03]: So they wanted me to stop finding everything.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would fight a Rolex watch.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'd fight everything.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah, yeah, I'm fighting.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm fighting.
[SPEAKER_03]: Very God darn thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: So let me ask you question.
[SPEAKER_03]: at that point did they take everything was there anything you could keep everything they brought me did you hide anything no yeah it's great you know I have five million dollars of slush fund in case you know the shit hit the fan and I need it money quicker than Europe and so I kept I kept money hidden in situations like that I had to give everything up I because the deal that I signed with the federal government and
[SPEAKER_03]: had to be total honest.
[SPEAKER_03]: I couldn't hold back anything.
[SPEAKER_03]: So now, Rachel, I'm my worst enemy myself and that I forget something.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my God, I got an all-core vid that I left in such and such a place.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey, Fred, tell him that I've got another car.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: it was a one-sided deal.
[SPEAKER_03]: When they first gave me that plea agreement, I looked at Fred and I said, I cannot sign this.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's impossible.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's only one-sided.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: I might not be the brightest crane in the box with Jesus.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not the doll is either.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Can't sign this.
[SPEAKER_03]: Things I don't open plea.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to get life.
[SPEAKER_03]: If I make any mistake here, you know, so he said, has the only deal that their government is offering you?
[SPEAKER_03]: What am I going to tell the government?
[SPEAKER_03]: Paul Leweska bars, a drug dealer?
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, there's nothing for me to talk about.
[SPEAKER_03]: They wanted to know how I did what I did because I was so successful at what it did.
[SPEAKER_03]: So they actually sent agents from Washington DC to record me,
[SPEAKER_03]: and then they put a manual out which is a distributed worldwide on how I did, what I did.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then they wanted me when I got out of prison, they wanted me to teach and do seminars to the federal government agency, which of course I said yes, yes, yes, until that time came and then I said no, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_03]: Why?
[SPEAKER_03]: All that part of me died.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it was over.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now I have kids, my kid was born when I was in prison.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I've got a family.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a whole completely different side of, that's why I never told my story before.
[SPEAKER_03]: My kids are not older and I asked them.
[SPEAKER_03]: I said, how would you feel about me talking about this?
[SPEAKER_03]: One of them is a policeman, a very proud of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they said that.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, and then he says, I've shared your story with some of his fellow policemen.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I said, what would you do that?
[SPEAKER_03]: And it was really kind of funny, because he said,
[SPEAKER_03]: Justin, you got the coolest dad.
[SPEAKER_03]: Our dad's are boring.
[SPEAKER_03]: When can we go on the floor and meet him?
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's great.
[SPEAKER_04]: But you know, it seems like that would be a path that would make sense for you.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you could kind of take your expertise that no one else has, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: And know how to catch criminals like you.
[SPEAKER_03]: You did I told them?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I wrote it down.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean,
[SPEAKER_04]: So was that off the table, will you never do that?
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, if all else fails, like, you know, I know you have a business and we'll talk about it.
[SPEAKER_04]: But is that something you would ever consider, you know, it's like, you know, the guy from Wolf of Wall Street, or, you know, these guys that went back and decided to help him made a career out of it and did speaking engagements.
[SPEAKER_04]: you know.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't mind doing that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Listen, I spoke in in a few schools.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've lectured in front of a few schools, including Miami University.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was there for over an hour talking to Bell Rung and nobody got up.
[SPEAKER_03]: The the professor told me later on they had three people, three speakers, separate time.
[SPEAKER_03]: One was a judge, one was a prosecutor, an agent, and they said, who is the most interesting guy that you that, you know, out of all of these, and they said, by far Tito, the Bell Rung,
[SPEAKER_03]: Society's supposed to say we're not supposed to like a guy like you, but we love you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well everyone deserves to come back.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's for sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you find out eventually you're getting out.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, because you're here.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're sitting in front of me.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're out.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: What was that day like when they opened the doors and you in a mason day, in a mason day, uh, in a mason day?
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't think I was going to go home and then
[SPEAKER_03]: very neat my wife she had a premonition and I didn't want I don't re-ores myself so I could reach for the highest cloud I'll keep on tone the ground because the down side is re-orescing yourself again and you're living that turmoil that that that that moment and I I don't put myself there so I don't I don't go with spending money that I don't have.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, meaning the lesson out of this is you never want to go back to that low level.
[SPEAKER_04]: You do not want to go back to prison.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to even, don't run around that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you may be a hustler, but your hustling on the legal side of things.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm a work harder.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Dedicated guy, whatever I do, whatever I choose to do, I'm gonna give it my all.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I didn't wanna make a life out of working for the government, telling them what I did that already.
[SPEAKER_03]: I gave them playable stuff that they never even dreamed of.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, like a crash car, following my car full of drugs, you know, I think I'm gonna mention that to you, you know, that wherever he went, my car and back on me went.
[SPEAKER_03]: We were in communication with an FM transmitter.
[SPEAKER_03]: at that point in time.
[SPEAKER_03]: If I'm going to get pulled over, his job is to hit the police car or whatever cars pulling the over on the corner, spin them around, get out, throw your door open, throw a bottle of booze out.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're going to think that you're drunk.
[SPEAKER_03]: The meantime, all this drama unfolding, I'm driving away.
[SPEAKER_03]: These are all little things that make a difference between being successful and failing.
[SPEAKER_03]: So this is a kind of stuff that I provided the government with, how I did what I did.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't move cocaine in the middle of the night.
[SPEAKER_03]: I move cocaine 9th of 5 during rush hour with a crash car behind me, not my odds increases, more cars out there.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm offloading the boat during the day time because if I'm out there two o'clock in the morning offloading a big sports fisherman My neighbors are gonna call up somebody's breaking into your boat The speedboats for example that we're using once the speedboats you know thousand horses or 2000
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't keep those boats in the back of the house because he draws a lot of attention.
[SPEAKER_03]: That boat comes in.
[SPEAKER_03]: We all float.
[SPEAKER_03]: It goes to a marina, and a little dingy, a little stupid little boats that's behind a multi-million dollar house.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to draw attention to it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Big smuggling boats that you see like in the movies, well all those great graphics and these great paint jobs, that's not a smuggling boat.
[SPEAKER_03]: The government will fly over, take pictures of you, now they're looking for that boat.
[SPEAKER_03]: You want no marks on the boat, you know?
[SPEAKER_03]: you got out with zero dollars zero zero you know people talk about you know oh you know you know listen I had lost I went from one of the top rated platinum cards in the nation was one of the first five hundred or fifty cards issued I went from spending a hundred and twenty thousand every month of my American Express back in the 80s
[SPEAKER_03]: to being totally broke, lost the credibility.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, that's why I see these people that say, I can't do this, and I'm too tall, I'm too short, I'm too ugly, I'm a man, just stop complaining.
[SPEAKER_03]: Just get up there and do it.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can't do it if you believe in yourself.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I did, and I put myself back together.
[SPEAKER_03]: I always joke about putting Humpty Dumpty back together again.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm doing it.
[SPEAKER_04]: So what did you decide after, first of all, while you're in prison, you were like, okay, here's what I'm gonna do when I get out or when you got out, you kind of saw what your options were.
[SPEAKER_03]: When I was actually in solitary confinement and prison, and one of my lawyers could testify to this, I drew a logo of what I was gonna do.
[SPEAKER_03]: I came up with a business plan that I thought would have continuity.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm a builder, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Building business is kind of like cannibalizing yourself.
[SPEAKER_03]: Why would you say that simple?
[SPEAKER_03]: You build a building, then the end of the game is finished, shit, quit, now you've got to start all over again.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's no continuity to it.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I wanted something to do like Coca-Cola.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can have the dumbest kid in your family, he's not going to ruin it.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I came up with something that sunscreen skin care and I came up with with a plan Something that would be good for society Something to help people live longer and something that would have continuity So I put together a plan.
[SPEAKER_03]: I use that dead time
[SPEAKER_03]: as profitable to me, the plan, my future.
[SPEAKER_03]: It kept me in a very positive attitude.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't get angry, I don't get bitter, I tell people, I can't afford to get the press.
[SPEAKER_03]: So the pressure is not something that enters in my world.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just can't afford that.
[SPEAKER_04]: So how long have you been out of prison now?
[SPEAKER_03]: I've been out of prison now.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not counting again.
[SPEAKER_03]: Some was around three years.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so how is normal civilian life going for you?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's funny you should ask me that because I'm doing 82, 83 on the way up here.
[SPEAKER_03]: I do have a problem with speeding.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I have to do it really do.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm getting passed up by a cop.
[SPEAKER_03]: So this is amazing.
[SPEAKER_03]: One thing I have noticed that you're, notice a lot of changes.
[SPEAKER_03]: But one major change life has become a lot quicker.
[SPEAKER_03]: A lot faster pace than from before.
[SPEAKER_03]: And people seem to be, they don't seem to have the patience or the tolerance level that people have before.
[SPEAKER_03]: It seems like we're living in a faster life.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's also, I'm noticed that it's more of a me, me, me.
[SPEAKER_03]: And she's get out of my way.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't have time for the nonsense.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's kind of sad.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: It is really kind of sad.
[SPEAKER_03]: And especially coming from a guy like me who had like, OK, three girlfriends and wife, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, it's amazing, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a great life.
[SPEAKER_03]: But the problem with that is that I never really... How is three girlfriends that I had in the morning?
[SPEAKER_03]: I get up, I work out for an hour.
[SPEAKER_03]: I go see the first girlfriend.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hang out with her for an hour or two.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then after that, I had a cell phone company, so I do a lot of work on the phone.
[SPEAKER_03]: So then from there, I'd go to one of my businesses.
[SPEAKER_03]: I go to one business, one day a week to each one.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I go there for lunch, then I break away from lunch, I go to see my other girlfriend.
[SPEAKER_03]: for another hour or two, but what's there with her?
[SPEAKER_03]: And then a three or four and a half, then that's the last one.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would then go with her and hang out for two or three hours more.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then go home.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did this five days a week.
[SPEAKER_03]: Saturday's the strongest one my days.
[SPEAKER_03]: I believe in.
[SPEAKER_04]: Did they know about each other?
[SPEAKER_03]: The last one you were about the others, okay, you know, and they knew one thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not getting the boards Don't put pressure on them.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, they all knew that they were missing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't like lying to anybody Okay, so I'm kind of on the only one that I I actually I didn't lie But I withheld the truth was my wife and then one day she asked me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Are you having enough fair and I told her Don't ask me any questions, so I won't have to lie to you
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, and she accepted that.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, she said, maybe we should go to a marriage counselor.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I said, no, maybe she goes to the lawyer.
[SPEAKER_04]: Really?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, really.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you divorced her?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it hurt me tremendously.
[SPEAKER_03]: I went to a hotel for three days I didn't come out.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love that much, but I didn't love her anymore.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a wife.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: And she said to me, something that really broke my heart.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's why I went to a hotel and stayed by myself.
[SPEAKER_03]: My mom was a devoted wife.
[SPEAKER_03]: Storybook marriage.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, unfortunately, you had the best example of man could ever have.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did, was unfortunate like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And on my dad's dying bed, I was there in the hospital, mercy hospital, where my mom moved into the hospital for a few weeks into my dad passed.
[SPEAKER_03]: She, her last words to my father, was, and with you, you take my heart.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the day that I set up with Tammy, all night, we talked about separating.
[SPEAKER_03]: When I remember, I had my Lamborghini in the garage, and back in those days, it was Lincoln, Intercom, system, so as I'm getting into my car,
[SPEAKER_03]: I hear the boys coming through the intercom system and with you I'm going to tell you what your mother told your father and with you you take my heart.
[SPEAKER_04]: Tell me about your mother a little more, because I know we talked in the last episode that she was heartbroken when you went to prison, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Did she come visit you?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the hardest thing, one of the hardest things, you know, I look at face to face, the federal government on your time, no big thing, bring it on, you know, I'm a tough guy.
[SPEAKER_03]: The hardest thing was facing my mom.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: My mom, because she looked at me in prison, and I went from being, you know, her only son, you know, I only, you know, my boy, me.
[SPEAKER_03]: And she said to me, these words she said, son, tell me what they're saying about you is not true.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I said, well, Mama's been just greatly exaggerated.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I sold airplanes, I sold cars to these guys.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're associating me with a lot of these people.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's some truth to this.
[SPEAKER_03]: I said, but let's just not dwell on that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me get out of this mess then, I mean, right now.
[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, I gave her something to hang I had on.
[SPEAKER_03]: in a little bit of a ray of hope.
[SPEAKER_03]: But there was saying some really ugly things, every saying that I killed these four people, you know, guys that died in an accident that couldn't be explained and I couldn't bring it up to anybody.
[SPEAKER_03]: I had two guys that died in a voting accident.
[SPEAKER_03]: One body was found eaten by sharks.
[SPEAKER_03]: The other one was not.
[SPEAKER_03]: the boat was gone, another pilot that crashed, you know, and so, you know, situations like that were the feds picked that up and they said, you know, these people and fed them that was lying.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, these are the kind of things that are being said about me.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm not monster, man.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just like, you know, guy you went to school with, that just happened to have been good at what I do.
[SPEAKER_03]: I became his mother.
[SPEAKER_04]: Did she make it to see you get out of prison?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, she did, and as a matter of fact, it's funny because she said to me, I was going to bring it to you, Rachel, but I got to show you that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I told my mom, they offer me the first cocaine cowboy offer.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, at that point, I had not been sentenced.
[SPEAKER_03]: And my lawyer said, I don't think it's really a good idea for you to promote yourself like that when you're still waiting to be sentenced.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I had mentioned that to my mom, I said, mom,
[SPEAKER_03]: They're offering me like a book deal, a movie deal, and then my mom said to me, oh wow, a book deal, huh?
[SPEAKER_03]: She said, you know, son, they wrote about a book about your father, too, which the government of Cuba wrote a book about my dad, all the great things he had done for the country, the law said he passed in Congress as a senator.
[SPEAKER_03]: So she said to me, they wrote a book about your father, too.
[SPEAKER_03]: What is your book going to say?
[SPEAKER_03]: And as I don't know, you're talking about mom a book, you know, so she's then said to me, how much you brought enough shame to the family?
[SPEAKER_03]: Now you want to promote it?
[SPEAKER_03]: Those were tough words that I still live with.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then my story came about because Jonathan walked in and who was with the history channel.
[SPEAKER_03]: at the time, and he was also one of the producers of Shark Tank, American Ninja Warrior, he approached me along with a guy by the name of David Fisher, and then they were producing a show at the time called 10 Things You Don't Know About Abraham Lincoln, whatever, whatever, and it was one show with 10 Things You Don't Know about Pablo Escobar, while I was one of the 10 things, and then we became friends, and then he, you know,
[SPEAKER_03]: three years later, or, you know, I just came home now, Jonathan said, one of we do a podcast and call it cocaine air, you know, and then that's how this story came out.
[SPEAKER_03]: You started to know, my kids are, my kids I asked for their approval.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, amazing.
[SPEAKER_04]: A couple of quick questions.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm sure our listeners are going to want to know what's your situation now, are you married?
[SPEAKER_04]: No, I'm not, I'm not married.
[SPEAKER_04]: Are you on bumble?
[SPEAKER_03]: on what dating app.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I'm not, but maybe I haven't, you know, I'm still falling around with the app world.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, no.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe we'll put you on Bumble and see that work kind of for you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Cause you sound like you like being married.
[SPEAKER_03]: I like being with a beautiful nice lady and I mean beautiful out and in such as yourself Don't think you're very stunning.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I like brains to have you all the beauty.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes Well, you don't want some dumb girl because you're too smart anyway You want someone you have a conversation and I don't want to yes girl either right one one that challenges, you know, don't argue
[SPEAKER_04]: I know that people that have listened now to all three episodes are going to want to know about your father's legacy.
[SPEAKER_04]: And if you have any regrets that you didn't get to bring that sugar mill to fruition.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I actually went to Haiti to do the sugar mill.
[SPEAKER_03]: And now I can do the sugar mill out of my back pocket, not even feel it, because I'm making so much money.
[SPEAKER_03]: Money, because I wanted to retire, because I was making too much money, if you could believe that.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's too much, I would never spend the money that I had.
[SPEAKER_03]: I went back to Haiti, brought my sister with me to do the sugar mill that my dad,
[SPEAKER_03]: wanted me originally to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: And at that time, my sister caught this thing called pink eye.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if you ever heard of that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Her eyes swelled up and she had plus coming out of her eyes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Heidi Aates was ramped.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was a tremendous amount of diseases.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I looked around and I reevaluated that moment.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then, again, talking to my dad, I said, Dad, this is not the place to race a family anymore.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I did what you wanted me to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: Be a provider for the family.
[SPEAKER_03]: I provided for the family, but I can't, I can't do the sugar mill here in Haiti.
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to have kids, and I want to have a family.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then that's when I decided,
[SPEAKER_03]: the pack up I said to my sister come on let's go home and get you to a real doctor and then I jumped on my jet and I flew back down and took my sister to the doctors right speaking of that are you still uh... flying are you still no do i learn how to fly for one purpose i didn't want to drop of the american airline
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: My whole purpose is to frame marijuana back from a column and every got certified, you know, but you don't really need it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, God.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm on landing in an airport.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm landing in the jungle.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I've got Captain Jack next to me and he was very, very good when he came to navigation.
[SPEAKER_03]: and so forth.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I brought the, yeah, we're doing this attitude.
[SPEAKER_03]: You remember one, a couple of times, you know, we blew a strut, we have problems with the airplane, and you wanted to abort it, and we're not avoiding anything.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, we're going through with this thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: I have a question, because you were talking about prison earlier.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is totally off topic, but I want to know someone like you, your opinion, on Epstein.
[SPEAKER_04]: And whether or not somebody in jail like that could have killed themselves.
[SPEAKER_04]: You were.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_04]: I've got to tell me.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, first of all, can you explain to people what that prison was like?
[SPEAKER_03]: That's one of the highest security prisons in the world.
[SPEAKER_03]: Why?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because New York is the center full for terrorism.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was in that old prison the same place that I did about three years at two, two and a half years.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, no, I'm sorry, maybe less than a year, but I was there.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was in the fifth floor, I think it was, very, very high security prison.
[SPEAKER_03]: Some of the people that were there, they do suicide watch, which is done by inmates, and it's funny, because it's right by the courthouse, and you go there on the ground tunnel.
[SPEAKER_03]: The security is...
[SPEAKER_03]: like nothing I've ever seen, and even the lawyers, I don't think it can bring in watches, very, very high security.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the walls are lying with, even though it's a concrete building, walls are lying with steel.
[SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_03]: So in the dead of winter,
[SPEAKER_03]: the steel, it just, you've got condensation, you've got water dripping from the walls.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: The plumbing, this prison should be shut down, so God darn old and nasty.
[SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_03]: The rats are the size of a football, and they're looking at you like, why are you staring at me?
[SPEAKER_03]: I was gonna be for you.
[SPEAKER_03]: They don't even run.
[SPEAKER_03]: They don't.
[SPEAKER_03]: I sort of got that on run.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're there.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, they're eating whatever little food you've got that you buy and come horrible place.
[SPEAKER_03]: That Epstein killed himself.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what the question that you wanted to ask me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Listen, it'd be really hard to get just a pencil in there.
[SPEAKER_03]: So
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think Epstein is the kind of guy he's ego.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know anything about him other than what little I've read and what little habits he seems to have had preference for beautiful young girls.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think a guy like that wants to commit suicide because he had a lot of money and then another factor that comes to play, he had already gotten himself in trouble once before and he bought his way out.
[SPEAKER_03]: So what makes you think that he doesn't think that for one New York second, he must have a lot of stuff in his playbook that he could push button, make calls, and things drop the
[SPEAKER_04]: I totally agree with you.
[SPEAKER_04]: I had a guy on my show who had been there and spent about five months there as well who explained what the bedding was like because I believe they said steel beds.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and I believe that they said that Epstein had hung himself.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he said, listen, in my experience, the sheets weren't strong enough to hang yourself.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a fairly true.
[SPEAKER_03]: Good job.
[SPEAKER_03]: What you do is I taught a guy how to hang yourself.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: How do you do it?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, you take your sheet and you braid it into a rope.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you don't really hang yourself, Rachel, you snap your neck.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, the beds are bolted to the ground.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I told this roommate that I had, I'm gonna kill myself, I'm gonna kill myself.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not so tired of hearing him tell me, I say, all right, let me help you kill yourself.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's make your dreams come true.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I moved off the side, I said, I gotta ablate, which is illegal to have.
[SPEAKER_03]: I had ablate.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like a razor blade broken.
[SPEAKER_03]: I said I got an extra sheet.
[SPEAKER_03]: What are you about a hundred and eighty hundred and ninety pounds?
[SPEAKER_03]: I said let's break these things to whip to be able to stand that type of weight.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we break the rope out of the sheets.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then you have maybe maybe four feet long, you tie it to the post, you sit on top of the bed, you fall your knees and you jump off.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're supposed to have you do it properly, you're supposed to snap your neck and that's how you die.
[SPEAKER_03]: So at that time, I said, listen, man, I'm gonna help you with this, I said, but I would prefer if you hang yourself outside the room, because I've been in solitary confinement for a long time before.
[SPEAKER_03]: When you hang yourself here, first of all, you're going to poop and pee all over the God darn floor.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to go into solitary again on their investigation.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I said, so if you want to do me a favor before you check out, do this out there.
[SPEAKER_03]: The other option that you have, I'll give you this little razor blade going to the shower.
[SPEAKER_03]: Cut yourself.
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't cut yourself vertical like this.
[SPEAKER_03]: You gotta do it long ways.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you bleed out quicker And if you're not gonna do a or b shut the f up.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm tired of listening to your shit.
[SPEAKER_04]: So what do you do?
[SPEAKER_03]: Shut up.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, so your point is though to do it so it doesn't matter that the sheets are thin if he braided in a certain way there was a way you could always do an extra sheet, but I don't think that I think this guy's mindset I'm going to get out of this mess.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I have a very dirt on people that I can call some favors.
[SPEAKER_04]: One question we didn't get to at the beginning, which I think is an important question.
[SPEAKER_04]: What was the craziest or most surreal moment of your smuggling career?
[SPEAKER_03]: Wow, that's a good one comes to my mind.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was really kind of cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're flying through the outside of Dominican Republic, which is Haiti between their Puerto Rico.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're coming over land, maybe at 300, 400 feet, flying very low.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we flew over a Coast Guard cutter.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you can imagine that, it was dusk.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was just don't need to turn dark.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we fly right over the deck.
[SPEAKER_03]: And this Coast Guard cutter had a balloon tethered radar, and they were there to detect low-flying airplanes and speedboats.
[SPEAKER_03]: They were not supposed to be there.
[SPEAKER_03]: So now, Jack, who would stutter whenever he got nervous, he says to me, do you think they saw us?
[SPEAKER_03]: You see the goddamn guys, glasses?
[SPEAKER_03]: I said we flew right over the deck.
[SPEAKER_03]: Of course they saw us, you know, right over the deck, you know, and below and then the balloon that they're floating.
[SPEAKER_03]: So what do we do now?
[SPEAKER_03]: I said, I don't know how many think, you know?
[SPEAKER_03]: So after a couple of minutes, we were heading, let's say, left, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And that direction.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just saying, left and right, just to make it simple.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I said, okay, let's climb, let's climb.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we climbed to about 4,000 feet.
[SPEAKER_03]: He says, why are we going to climb?
[SPEAKER_03]: They'll be able to spot us on the radar.
[SPEAKER_03]: I said, they already know we're here.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we're in a light airplane, how the government then at that point, how they think is they look at the kind of airplane that you've got.
[SPEAKER_03]: They do a radius, and they say, well, based on this type of an airplane, even with extra fuel, they can only land here, here, and here.
[SPEAKER_03]: So they dispatch a group.
[SPEAKER_03]: reception group where they think that you have the length as you're going to run out of fuel.
[SPEAKER_03]: So if we're going to the left and now we're a 4,000 feet and they say, okay, you got these three four islands, these are the only places that they can land.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we fly like that for about at almost 40 minutes and we're giving them a target, a directional target.
[SPEAKER_03]: Then we dropped out of the air and got on the deck.
[SPEAKER_03]: I said the old ten-meter on the airplane at 75 feet, 80 feet.
[SPEAKER_03]: And now it's almost total darkness.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can fly the plane right into the water.
[SPEAKER_03]: Very, very dangerous.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we're flying right on top of the water.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we doubled back to 30, 40 minutes.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we went right instead of left.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I landed the airplane with about maybe 10, 15 minutes with a fuel.
[SPEAKER_03]: And now it's pretty scary.
[SPEAKER_03]: and it was kind of cool because they were looking for us over here.
[SPEAKER_03]: We double back below radar and when the opposite direction.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was when incident.
[SPEAKER_03]: Another incident was we're running out of fuel.
[SPEAKER_03]: I couldn't find the landing strip in Colombia.
[SPEAKER_03]: The trees are very tall in the jungle, you know, and they're telling me they could hear me, but we can't see them.
[SPEAKER_03]: The way we land, we set two lights and we land in between these two lights.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: So at that point in time,
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it couldn't see that.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I said, like some God darn tires on fire.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we could see smoke coming up to the clouds.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we were able to land the plane at that point.
[SPEAKER_03]: I said, this year's number going to happen to me again.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I came back and went to my guy Q.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I said, man, we only died out there.
[SPEAKER_03]: We couldn't find the landing strip.
[SPEAKER_03]: The clouds were too thick.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was a low ceiling, high trees.
[SPEAKER_03]: He says, how can we correct this?
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's make an airport out there.
[SPEAKER_03]: Are we going to do that?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, then we set a transponder like a signal that will go beep the automatic directional signal finding.
[SPEAKER_03]: So at that point, we send this equipment down there.
[SPEAKER_03]: that would send a signal my airplane had the capability honing in on that signal and now we were just directly flying no matter what we flew directly to that spot.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was kind of scary.
[SPEAKER_03]: Two moments that come out of my, you know that I remember that stand out.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Something that's interesting about you and probably a
[SPEAKER_04]: skill or I don't know what I would call it that you possess.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is it seems like you are someone who doesn't deal with problems, you deal with solution.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so that's probably what made you as successful as you, you know, as you became.
[SPEAKER_04]: And what gives you the the opportunity to succeed now that you've changed your life.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the second thing that I've noticed is your
[SPEAKER_04]: you're not scared to fail almost like your it's okay because you've learned the lessons it's okay because you know there's another option talk a little bit about that because I think people
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, you were talking about what people are like now and how much different it is from the 70s and 80s, but so many people are so quick to do things and try things and they don't want to fail their scared of failure where you if you really study the biggest Most successful people they failed and that was the turning point in their career where they learned how to succeed.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, it's funny, you should say that because I've had to repeat that over and over in my private world.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, like I tell people, I don't want to hear the problem one more time.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't change that, but what I can't change is the solution.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I can't deal in that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's concentrate and focus on how we get better this situation.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm only going to make that mistake one time.
[SPEAKER_03]: I used to say all the time, that dog bit me once and I'm going to bite me twice.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't make the same mistake twice, you know, and
[SPEAKER_03]: Failure to me is when you decide to quit on your own, when you decide to give up.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's failure.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, the fact that you fall down, I always tell people, try to fall forward.
[SPEAKER_03]: That when when you get back up, you're three steps ahead.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's great.
[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, and when I've heard people say, well, I'll teach or you're really lucky.
[SPEAKER_03]: I look as for the church.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to sound negative.
[SPEAKER_03]: But you know, uh, I found out the harder I work, the look you're I get.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, and that's, that's a true.
[SPEAKER_03]: You got to dedicate yourself.
[SPEAKER_03]: Stay focused.
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't give up.
[SPEAKER_03]: When everybody else is throwing your arms up in the air and quitting, no, not if you want to be successful.
[SPEAKER_03]: You just gotta keep at it and you'll turn to corner.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's a good point that you make.
[SPEAKER_04]: I want to talk about a message that you would give to young people that are listening, that they're drawn to quick money, which a lot of people are right now.
[SPEAKER_04]: What would you say?
[SPEAKER_04]: And kind of a sidebar with that question is, do you have regrets?
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, what would you say to people that are just in it for quick money?
[SPEAKER_04]: And how it's affected your life by doing that?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's a great question, you know, and I'm spoken in front of schools before, and it's hard to tell you that I didn't like what I did, because I got caught up in the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Wasn't just the money was the power that it brought.
[SPEAKER_03]: The highs were highs, but the lows are so low that you will never be able to outlive it and it's just not really worth it.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I told my impress and I changed a lot of people's lives around by telling them, listen, the same effort that you put in selling a bag of weed or whatever, put that same effort into maybe going on and getting a $200 car cleaning at armor all the tires.
[SPEAKER_03]: put it on a street.
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't have a lot.
[SPEAKER_03]: Put it on a street corner that's busy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Put a four sales sign on it.
[SPEAKER_03]: You bought it for 200.
[SPEAKER_03]: Center for four.
[SPEAKER_03]: You doubled your money and you don't have to turn around and be looking over your shoulder.
[SPEAKER_03]: You put that effort.
[SPEAKER_03]: Set realistic goals.
[SPEAKER_03]: don't try to become a rocket scientist or a doctor, there's a lot of honor in being a carpenter and just doing different types of job.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was, I'm proud to say that I, two or three of the people that I influence, one of my mom is very rich, trying to the millions of dollars, not dozens of millions, you know, how landscaping?
[SPEAKER_03]: Start it out with one lawnmower, you know, one lawnmower, push it on more, and from there, you've got 2030 employees.
[SPEAKER_03]: So these are attainable goals that you can actually achieve.
[SPEAKER_03]: Be realistic about yourself and don't give up, man.
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't give up as for losers.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: What is on your bucket list?
[SPEAKER_04]: You still, I mean, you have had so many different lives.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it sounds like when you hear your story, you really realize that life,
[SPEAKER_04]: almost go slow because you've had so many things happen, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Tell me what is next for you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Next for me, I've got mixed feelings.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I've discussed this with you, Rachel.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm doing skincare out of all the crazy things, why skincare?
[SPEAKER_03]: As I mentioned before, I was looking for something that would have continuity.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I got into the idea of doing like sunscreen, created a company called Miami Sun.
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't want to really,
[SPEAKER_03]: say the name because I wanted to isolate that from what I'm doing now, I don't need any money from anything here.
[SPEAKER_03]: Miami Sun is standing on his own two legs and I'm very proud of that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And at the end of the day when I'm dead and gone, you know, when somebody says to my kid, well, you know, that was a big time, he's a smaller than my kicker turnaround and say, yeah, but he also became the number one guy in skincare.
[SPEAKER_03]: Miami Sun and he's done a lot of good for society.
[SPEAKER_03]: Part of the money is going to go back into kids and want to create a foundation for children to be able to be exposed to a guy like me, to be able to sit down and say, listen, it's not all that's cracked up to be.
[SPEAKER_03]: It really is.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, hard work really pays off and look at me now, I'm doing it.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's happening.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm doing it again.
[SPEAKER_03]: No credit, no credibility and a tainted history.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm going to turn around and polish it up and be brighter than I was before.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is there any, by the way, with no doubt?
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: That gives a vote of confidence.
[SPEAKER_03]: is there anything on your bucket list though you haven't done a place you haven't been that you want to go to something you really want to do you know I don't pretty much everything I know you have told one prosecutor that threatened to give me a life I said listen man don't threaten me anymore set me down on an electric chair and I'll push my own button because I'm the kind of guy that you pay money to go to the moves to see a guy like me I've done it all I've been there and really done it so
[SPEAKER_03]: Even the downside was an experience.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I don't have any regrets.
[SPEAKER_03]: It made me appreciate this moment with you, a couple of coffee.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't need for women in my life anymore.
[SPEAKER_03]: I need one good one.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it just really made me appreciate more than a moment.
[SPEAKER_03]: When you're living such a fast life, Rachel, you never enjoy the moment.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm with one girl.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm thinking about the next one that I'm going to be with.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I don't even get doing joy that holidays were a pain in the bud.
[SPEAKER_03]: Days like Christmas I have to go to four different homes and come up with four different lies to be able to survive that.
[SPEAKER_04]: And remember who's getting what gift.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, it's funny because I gave them all the same cards.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh
[SPEAKER_03]: And I gave them all dogs, and I named them the same, and they were all baby.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, my god.
[SPEAKER_03]: I eliminate mistakes that way.
[SPEAKER_04]: That is a great way to eliminate mistakes that are short.
[SPEAKER_04]: You talked a little bit about what your son would say about you.
[SPEAKER_04]: But how do you want to be remembered?
[SPEAKER_04]: What would be your legacy?
[SPEAKER_04]: Would it be as a smuggler, a survivor, a cautionary tale?
[SPEAKER_03]: I tell you what I told one of my wife's.
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't give up.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't give up and remember when I die,
[SPEAKER_03]: Here's what I want you to write on my tombstone.
[SPEAKER_03]: She goes, what?
[SPEAKER_03]: I said, he might just come back.
[SPEAKER_04]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is a perfect place to antito.
[SPEAKER_04]: It has been my honor to have met you, to be friends with you now.
[SPEAKER_04]: I can't wait for this to be made into a book.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm a movie.
[SPEAKER_04]: Everyone needs to hear your story.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm excited for us to be friends in the future.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would be honored.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would be honored.
[SPEAKER_03]: Really, thank you so much for this moment.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the opportunity that you show of people that I'm just a regular guy that just dedicated to what he commits to.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: You only wag its head.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Love it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so so much.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you so much for listening to Ms.
[SPEAKER_04]: Understood.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm your host, Rachel, you could tell.
[SPEAKER_04]: Please be sure to subscribe to the show and give us a five-star rating and review.
[SPEAKER_04]: You can support the show by joining our Patreon at patreon.com slash Ms.
[SPEAKER_04]: Understood with Rachel, you could tell.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you have ideas for the show or want to reach out email us at info, Ms.
[SPEAKER_04]: Understood podcast at gmail.com.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's spelled MISS.
[SPEAKER_04]: Understood.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you so much and I'll see you next time.