A League of Their Own with Julia Claire

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Speaker 1: On the Bedel Cast, the questions asked if movies have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism the patriarchy zef invest start changing it with the Bechdel Cast. Hi, and welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Jamie, and we're here to talk about, as we always are, the portrayal of women in movies. It's fun. It's the theme of the podcast. It's the theme of the podcast. You love it, we love it, you love and we're doing and you're welcome and you're welcome. We're feminist icons. Yeah like that. That's I'm gonna say that. Yeah. We uh. We were inspired by the Bechtel test, which requires that a movie has two characters their ladies, they have names, they talk to each other, and they're not talking about men. That's the Bechdel test. It has its limits, patients. It's what we use as a yard stick for a larger discord. The Bactel test is like a yard hence yardstick. And then the discussion of women in movies is a stile. No, it's just like the that mile I'm getting really, maths is a mile I feel like we're that's no, that's you can't do that. Yeah, you can't, because well, there's metric and no yards. Metric meter is metric yard is three ft. It's totally fine. We should listen to a math. But there are about six in a mile. I know this because oh I ran track in eighth grade. Uh and there I found a picture recently of me and my coach, who was within two years of the picture where he was like touching my arm. I was arrested for perverted deeds with the swim team, not even his team. Jeez, I know my high school soccer coach was arrested for stealing a deer from another person's deer farm so that he could have it for his own deer farm. Well, your trial is really weird. Yeah. I grew up in a really stupid place. Yeah I saw that. What was the name of that street, Oh, dry Hollow Road. Yeah yeah, I took a picture of a road called dry Hollow Road, and I said, so nice of them to name this road after my vagina. Great tweet, thank you tweet. Well, now we de briefed on our tweets. Yes, let's get into the podcast stuff. We have a guest. I'm so excited. She's my best friend in the whole world. She's a comedian, she's a writer, She's been at the British Town Comedy Festival. She lives in New York City where we're recording right now. We should say, because this is one of two and this is the first one that's going to come out. Yes, we're recording with life and we're having the best time we're having. I'm like, it's Julia Claire. She's here, Julia, so that to be here, Thank you for coming, Thank you so much. Like April, it feels like longer. I can't believe we're in this. This always happens anytime we're actually in the same room. Because we have a long distance romance, Jamie and I we talk every single day. We talked all day every day, pretty much more, and I think at this point more of a friend of has been long distance than not, which is yes, wild, which is so weird because our friendships started when we were living not only on the same street in Cambridge, on the same block, yeah, which was why we didn't know. We didn't know each other then before, so just like became friends. I passed oral apartment last night a good place. You came to my apartment and brought me gatorade. At that time, my face got all puffy. Your face was so big, it was really big. Fish Jamie and Julia came from a softball game, and that's true Boston comedy so perfect. Yeah you were. Yeah, did we play at the same time? Know you were, baby, it was like, you're a founding member, Caitlin. It's really you actually left Boston like three weeks after I started doing comedy, right, Yeah, I came to I came to your going away thing. I remember, thank you. I didn't I didn't care. I didn't care. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I don't know what I was doing. Maybe maybe I did party. Gal, So you're like already I don't attend parties generally, but I've been trying. You're getting better and doing a better job. Yeah, but bringing it back softball, yes, and baseball and the movie we're talking about today, A League of their Own Hell yeah, yeah, when did you first see this movie? I first saw this movie probably when I was like seven, it's like six or seven. That explains so much that you saw this movie that. Yeah, it was first of all, Yeah. I saw it for the first time pretty young, and then I want and to keep watching it, and so pretty much on every time I would get invited to a sleepover, I would demand that this movie that um But I actually hadn't seen it for over ten years until I watched it today. So oh, well, you're welcome that we gave you an opportunity trying to watch this movie. Yeah, it was very influential in and also I realized there was so much that I didn't understand when I was first watching it when I was little, Like there's so much in it that's just above board for children. But it's a family friendly movie. It is. It's one of those movies that's on TV. It's always on. Yeah, just like me with my comedy. I love it. There and there goes another one, there another those hot riffs bomb. Yeah. Yeah, I dropped to know that. I meant that in a good way. Well, I'm tired. How wouldn't you first see this movie? I think college I was a bit older, and then I think I only saw it that once, and then I rewatched it twice before coming here to record this episode. I saw it and I want to say late elementary school middle school, and I was like, this is kind of boring. And then I saw yesterday and I said, this is kind boring. Yeah, you're not a huge fans movie. Well, okay, my problem with a league of their own is not that women are boring. It's that baseball is boring. I can't argue with that. But um, like the sand Lot A lot was that I didn't. I mean it was on a lot, but I didn't. I don't like sport. I love that movie too. I was the sam I mean, if the climax of the movie is a baseball game, it's not gonna be my favorite movie. Sure, I want to I want to leave their own. If we did uh leave their own reboot with basketball soccer, I want a basket ball league up their own. That's my proposal. Give me a soccer movie. Like soccer movies. Well, I don't like I don't like soccer, but well, she's the man bend it like Beckham, and I like Beckham, but also I bend it like Beckham. Is well, I don't like soccer movies. I like soccer is a sport, and I'm saying there should be better soccer movies. I would take a soccer movie over baseball movie. I would take a basketball movie over almost any movie. Space jams for women, Space jam. Why is Lola Bunny? So I yes, and maybe for another time, but she is so she's so sexualized. It's so weird. Everything about that character is just like, oh, she sucks, like and now we know she's when is she not? When she's not on the court, she's fucking and a very well it's for the course for bunnies. Bunnies are sucking all the time. Oh, that's true with bugs bunny, Bugs bunnies. He's a little Yeah, they're not out there like over sexualizing bugs Bunny. I think they're not sexualizing him enough. You know what, your right. I think we need to turn it up to an eleven on bugs Bunny. Let's see, like a dick bulge in his pants? Oh my god, like okay, any way, words I never thought I would here associated with bug funny. I'd like to introduce a horrifying image into the room. Bugs Bunny. I mean obviously he's naked, right, but you think of his for as kind of clothes. So I was picturing a dick bulge coming from skin. Oh, that's actually for as pants that's how It's exactly how I was picturing. But he's not. That's it would just be out it would just be out right. I was thinking to be wearing shorts. It's that's shorts. Yeah, Tatistic could just be hanging out of his bags. Well. I have long said that men's basketball shorts across the board are too long. We need to go back to seventies basketball shorts for men. Show us the butts. I want to see those thighs. Every show us men's thighs are. They're an untapped resource. Yeah, in my opinion, they're great, and it's like it's sometimes I don't know if it's like I forget where I heard a similar discussion to this recently, but it's like, I don't know if it's just like an we just don't see men's thighs enough so that when we do, we're just like, oh my god, they're they're great, They're gorgeous, but they're like better than women's thighs. From a feminist icon, this has been the male objectification portion of the podcast. You're welcome everyone about space jams somehow. Oh but all that to say, baseball is the most boring thing in the entire world. In spite of that, this is a great movie. Yeah. I'm not a sports girl myself, but I do like this movie a lot, and I will take this OPPORTU you need to do. Areca, A league of their own is set in I want to say nine. Correct. It's the middle of w W two. We're in a world war. All the men have gone off to fight, including Bill Paulman. Yes, and apparently a bunch of major league baseball players. So this guy Harvey of Harvey Bars, He's like, let's start up a women's league. But we're going to call it the Girls League, which we'll talk about. But John Lovett's he's scouting for talented baseball who are lady little dirty must a suit a little bit too big? He's gonna give his wife a tickle pickle, he says, I bet he knows, you know it. I forgot that line. I mean I probably erased it like a trauma memory. I don't know. Yeah, I was like, oh, tickle pickles. How often do you give your wife a tickle pickle? Is your tickle pickle relationship healthy? Which how much should you be tickling with your pickle? But you guys know that this is like based it's based on a true based on real events, right, Yes, I guess Julia looked up a lot of trivia and I'm very excited, Like is it do you know like a lot of historical trivia about it? Well, not a lot, but just you know the basics of the movie. So John love it. Scouting for different women, he goes and scouts Dottie and Kit sisters who play and tank Girl. They play in like a local league and he's like, you guys are really good, come and try out for this national women's league. He says, Gina Davis ship right she is, and god, I love Kit kids, Like, can't fair. I'm your kids sister, even though I'm a grownass woman. I deeply really I know. It's like are you thirty? Like like she's I'm always left behind. I was like, you're adult anyway, But yeah, he wants Gina Davis's character and she's like, not without my sister Kit. So she convinces him to let Kit come along and try out, and they both make the team. They end up on the Rockford Peaches. The Rockford Peaches. Other team members. Notable ones are Mage, Madonna Wait Madonna's character's name is mad that's Madonna's nickname for a Madonna heads out there, Doris Rosie, O'Donnell. There's like Marla, Marla Hooch, Marla, all these like weird horny cartoon character names. Fact, Marla Hooch is the mother of Whoch from Turner and Whoch another I'm kidding, but I was like, is this a Pixar thing? Oh? Who's the character who has little boy? I forget her name, but there's a there's a mother. And then there's also named Betty who they called Betty Spahett which was doll at one day, I when have a Beatty Spaheanny Doll. I knew it was it all I did not have. She she like stretched out right. That was stretch arm strong for girls. Yeah, exactly, like she was like sexy, stretched stretch. Why did they have to gender toys like that? It's so weird. It was the nineties. They still do it anyway. So there's a bunch of ladies on the team, and at first, no one's really into it. They're like, why would we go watch women play baseball? This is what I find relatable. It's like, do we want to watch baseball? But actually wondering that was like historically inaccurate because the real All American Girls Professional Baseball League was immediately popular because most people didn't have still didn't have TVs in their houses and wanted some entertainment, so pretty much immediately had people in the in the seats. Cool. I like that, that's great. Yeah, the movie to heighten the drama, the movie depicts it as though it wasn't popular. So then different members of the team are like, let's find ways to make this popular, and so Gina Davis is doing splits and all kinds of stuff, and then more people come. Meanwhile, their manager Tom Hanks a k A. Jimmy Doogan it up and I want to punch him in his mouth. Yeah, he's a draw, like a straight up alcoholic, because I feel like this is one of those movies where they try to just make him a drunk and it's like, no, he's he has a problem right for sure, but it's okay because he has a character arc and we like him at the end. And then Tom Hanks wouldn't agree to be in the movie if they're like and at the end, you're still not likable. Yeah, so they're dealing with him. They're dealing with all kinds of sexism and all matter of things. And then it gets to the point where the World Series is coming up and Dottie and Kit are having some truly struggles and they're like, no, we're not going to be on the same team anymore. And then they play a game against each other because Kick gets moved to a different team, which is like a poor kid, not fair, right, I know, why can't they just get along? Um? And then the Peaches end up losing, but it's okay because everyone's happy and they played baseball on their women. Yea. Well, then also there's a war and Bill that we think Bill Palmer might be dead for a second, but then it turns out he just is limping a little bit and he's fine. It's because Dottie is married to Bob. When he comes in the room, Bob is truly the least sexy name. Never. Yeah, like for some reason, Bobby's okay with me. Bobby is okay Bobby Kennedy. Oh, that's pretty much it. I have a lot of frame pictures in my room. Jamie and I could do an entire podcast about the Kennedy's The Horny Horny Kennedy's Lates newest little podcast. Oh god, unbelievable. I didn't expect to get like he's on this podcast. I happened saying that happens on the Bechtel Cast. Quite a boy. So this has been part two of male objectification. Um all right, let's get back on track. Um so. And then at the end the Peaches lose, but it's fine because Dottie and Kit reconcile, and then they all get together at the end when they're old ladies and there's the there the Baseball Hall of Fame and everyone's like, hey, remember way back when when people liked watching women's sports for a few years, and then the men came back from the war, no one cared about us anymore. What a cool time. The end, How are your grandkids? Yeah, so that's the story of the League of their Yeah, that was like a very tight tight I got to keep things type. Sometimes there's a lot to unpack with this movie. Yeah, what do we do? Want to go by character? Right? Yeah? Where to start? One interesting thing about the movie in the story is that the female characters in the movie who are scouted to play baseball in the league also have to be beautiful. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I I don't know. I mean, I'm sure that there's some historical something to that. I couldn't find anything. They didn't have to be beautiful per se, but they all did actually get like makeovers and have to go to an etiquette school. That part of that party is real and the uniforms are not too far off. So it was like the short. But also one of the things that I did not remember from this movie at all was the very opening scene where it's like the old Gina Davis or whatever they for whatever reason, and it makes it it's so psychotic. They dubbed Gina Davis actual Gina Davis's voice with the woman who's playing her, and it looks and sounds so crazy. I thought that was Gina Davis, an old lady makeup. No, they're old actors. It's an old actress. And then they had Gina Davis like read her lines. Gina Davis, who, by the way, has never looked better, except except maybe in Beetlejuice. She is so hot in both of them. And she's also a fellow tall woman. How tall she's like she's sixty, Yeah, she's six. And also apparently she's like a MENSA member. She's a MENSA member, and she's like an Olympic archer. Stop heard that? Yeah? She She also founded the Gina Davis Jenner Studies for Jenner Studies Institute. She's an icon, she's a feminist. She's like and I'm not even joking usually I'm joking. I love her. So according to interviews with Penny Marshall, who directed the movie, they and Gary is in the movie too. Gary's in the movie too. Because they couldn't afford anybody. They couldn't Gary come with me, their brother and sister. Yeah, they couldn't afford another actor, so she just had Gary doot for free. Andy. But all of the actresses who were in the movie had to actually be able to play baseball. So they had open tryouts for all the actresses, and they had some big name actresses who came to the tryouts who didn't make it because they couldn't play baseball. Marissa tomay Uh sent in a tape of her auditioning like playing baseball on the set of My cousin Vinny being coached by Joe PESHI where is that date? I don't know, Oh my god, I wanted in my possession right now, But she didn't make it because Penny was like it was it was clear she wasn't a ball player. Yeah, but they all did b they did. All the actresses did almost all their own baseball stunts, and all of the bruises and ship is all real. Yeah that yeah, that that like huge like thigh like yeah, that was a real one. Yeah. Nuts. Back on the characters, like, there was a huge emphasis on them being attractive to be able to play in the league, which of course is like an insane double standard because like the men who play baseball don't. You're not like you have to be to be you don't even need to be athletic to be. But because they were women, and they're like, well, who's gonna want to watch women play baseball unless they're also attractive? So that was a thing a choice for the movie that you know, whether or not it was like super historically accurate, totally like like it's something it's you know, it's a standard that's placed on women all the time where it's like, well, who's gonna want to listen to you talk or see you do anything unless you're also very hot, And there's a scene where early on Marla, who was not traditionally beautiful, but she's a great baseball player. She's trying out and John Lovitt is like, oh no, because she's not on the team. And then her dad is all like, well, I know my daughter isn't as pretty easy as other girls, but I raised her like a boy because it was just me raising her, and I'm sorry I did a bad job, which is like that hilarious because it's as if like every single mother would have raised her son like a girl just because she didn't know any she just does. But there's the whole team boils out of me, like I'm so sorry my daughter looks like shit. Yeah, Like what he should have said is like what my daughter looks like has fun all to do with how well she can play baseball, which is very well. And fuck you for even suggesting that she shouldn't be on the team because she's not hot enough. That's what her dad should have said, and then he should have leaned into farm. But like, my daughter is so hot, no idea described her body anyway. So this is sort of a recurring theme throughout the movie, like the women have to be beautiful, like the newsreel thing like a little black and white like commercial almost it's talking about each of the members of the team, but it's always like looking out a triples, no reason to let your nose get shiny. It's like they're all talking about the women, not really how they play baseball, but it's that or like just like noting their like domestic abilities, just like that's how like Betty spaghetti, She's like she's making spaghetti and she loves to knit. Ellen Sue is a former Miss Georgia. Yeah. Like so it's either commenting on like no credit, yeah sound effect, how good looking they are, or how good they are at like domestic crap. It's crazy because they set the bar so low to say something about you. But there's still a norm where they're like, yeah, well don't they just go to Marla hoo and like not saying anything. Yeah, they're like what a hitter, And she's like in the background, you can barely see nothing. I want to talk about that like radio broadcast where the old lady is like careers in higher education are leading to the masculization of women with enormously dangerous consequences to the home, our children, and our country, and she's like the worst case of this is women playing baseball and blah blah blah. So exposition expedition that just to me serves as a reminder that not all women are feminist icons. Yeah, that's like one of the most empowering things in the entire world. You're like, someone are fucking muster. Yeah, realizing that and not being like literally I tweeted about this the other day, and there's some people who act like women support all like female public figures, like we're all just like Philish Lavely. Yes, right, it's just like in one world like, yeah, I'm not I don't like, I'm not ring with Betsy Devas intellectually. Yeah, some women are really shitty here first, Right, that's the main point that we try to make on this podcast. Yeah, not all women are feminists, and so yeah, women are just as guilty as men sometimes at reinforcing these dangerous gender roles and gender norms. Ivanka sigh, thank you. Yeah. The team names of the Lady Peaches, Peaches, the Bells, calls Up, calls Up an image, Yeah, all of those were really the real team names. Yeah. There's also the Blue Sox and the Comets, which are you know, specifically gender. Yeah, but you know, there's not like men's baseball teams called the Pickles. But that would be fun. But I would not be opposed to tackle things. You know, you love there. I love all the cartoony World War Two names in this movie. They're so funny. Also, I really think that Madonna was at her personal best in this movie. Yeah, I think. Yeah, I think it's her all time best acting performance. She has an amazing dance scene that she does. Yeah, and she and she and Rosie have such a fun rapport. Yeah, the role she was born to play. I think. I agree, I agree, And apparently a talented baseball player, yeah, who knew? Yeah, So for everyone who's movie, I think should be saying a lot of like very common feminist things. More just to like, you know, build our audience. Yeah, just a yes break, just all vowels exactly, just like a men for like empowering vowels for women. Yeah. Of course, more on Madonna's character. So she's like the team. Yeah, like she gets slushamed, oh quite a major Yeah. Yeah, because her nickname is all the Way May, which is like a double on tundra. Also a great nickname that does a great nickname, especially um. And then there's the part where she's like, they're like trying to draw more of a crowd, and she's like, well, what if, like during a game, my uniform pops up into my bosoms fallout, And then Rosie O'donnald's character is like, do you think there's a man in this country who hasn't seen your bosoms? It's like, but she's never like I don't know, She's it's always yeah, it's yeah, it's playful. It's not like, oh, you stupid idiot for being a slit. Yeah. She she presented it as a joke. It was received as a joke. She teaches the girl carried to read us erotic erotic novels to work. It gets really good after this. It's a fund it's a fun movie. It's fun, but baseball sucks. That's this is where where you and I because you guys are both played. I'm I don't know. I was. I was a ballet gal. I know, but now you okay, well now you can dance, like in a pinch, you can dance. And I if it's an emergency, right, if someone's in trouble, I could to get out of an escape room, you can dance people. Yeah, that's why people bring me. I envy that because I have nothing from softball really besides me Like, well you could still, I mean you were playing this recently. Yeah no, but there are no like residual skills life. I disagree it. If an intruder comes into your house, you can take a bat and beat the ship out of there, but takes a lot less skilled than years of softball. That would be like, thank god, I was like, or I would be dead right now. Speaking of escape rooms, there's a thing to be said for men in escape rooms. Just like I'm in charge, I know what I'm doing. I need to have like I need to take control of the situation. Men in escape rooms very much the same. Yeah, god, escape rooms are you can't go with a man, you cannot. They need to be like keeping keep trying to go to go to an escape room with a man and it just doesn't work. You can't. They're like, look behind the frame, there's a safe over here. Escape rooms are virtual terrible, but it is fun to I just want to put like a bunch of aggressive men in an escape room and to them trying to outfit each other. From finding NEMO and they would not get out, they would die. Oh there's a scene where like it reveals their uniform. Uh, we touched on this where it's like the short dresses that are not at all practical for playing any sport, and the women like push back. You see, like a lot of things are challenged. Also, a lot of things go unchallenged. But one of the things that they do challenge is the uniform, just like right at first, whenever they see and they're like, we can't what are you supposed to slide this? Like that's address, that's half address. What are we baseball players or ballerinas? So they're they're challenging it, but they still end up wearing them. So it's like they do right, yeah, but you know, just challenged it. Yeah, because I mean, I guess we we don't really know what happened, but hopefully what have happened, because there could not be a less practical It's just another example of a double standard where the men were like, oh, here's a practical thing to play and sliding in that truly must have been such a bit because like even sliding when you like when I played I played softball for a long time, as I said, and uh, you'd wear like sliding shorts which were padded shorts underneath your uniform shorts because sliding hurts so much, and even with those you would get caught up a little bit. So I can only met these these women must have just been like bleeding all the time. Jesus, let's talk about let's talk about some some individual characters. Sure, well, Dottie. What do we think of Dottie? I like Dottie. I mean we see, like right away how great of a player she is. She advocates for her sister, so she's lifting other women up but then ragging her back down a bit. Yeah, but team to me, I at treated that more to like a sibling rivalry than like, uh, I'm competing with you because you're another woman kind of thing. But it's it's hard to say, like it could be maybe a little bit of both. I don't know. She's the rock of the store like everything. Well, first of all, she's based on the real Dottie Collins, who was up a player for the Rockford Peaches, who played in the league for six years and pitched like seventeen shutouts. Like, oh, she was a picture, not a catcher. Yeah, she was a pitcher. Yeah, so she was this incredible player. But yeah, Dottie the character actually I don't know if this is like crossing movies too much, but like reminds me of Julia Stiles is character in Mona Lisa Smile because she has a lot of aptitude and she has a lot of potential to do other stuff. Like clearly Dottie is like very smart. She does math in her head. Uh like the other girls. I like the other girls. She's a great baseball player. She could do more with her life, and like other people tell her that she could do more, and she's like, actually, I'm I choose to go back to my family, which is what Julia Styles character does. I haven't seen that movie in a long time. It's the sweaters are incredible in that movie. It's a great sweater never seen it. It's fun for the sweaters. You can watch on mute, just a lot of it, mute, Donnie. I mean, she's great, obviously, I don't dislike her, but there's she's not the best. She's not the most interesting character, right, Like, she's not really flawed in any interesting She's like the control group of Yeah, the characters I think which which might even be and I genuinely avoid sports movies that might even be a sports movie trope of like the Leader is like that, but I would have been interested to see a more flawed character or so, you know, like she doesn't really funk up ever, except like she fights with her sisters sometimes. But I think that that's why I gravitate towards Kit, because she sucks up constantly, but also it's very dynamic, and like it's always I don't know, well that a dynamic because like, um, there's a game where kids like not pitching very well. Gina Davis is like, yeah, we should take her out of the game, although at first she's like, no, she's doing fine, And then Jimmy Dugan is like, really, is what are you thinking? Like he like swallowed a bucket of flegm before delivering each line. Too much, it's too much dial it back. Yeah, So then Dottie's like, you know what, Actually she's pitching grapefruits or something like that, and Kid gets mad. I feel like their argument, their conflict is Kit sort of just being immature and like not willing to acknowledge that like maybe she shouldn't keep playing when she's like, well, that's like her, but she's wrong, Like that's the thing. It's like she's Gina Davis is right and she's never wrong, and I think that's like kind of what like I almost felt like a little I'm like, we get it. Years I was, yeah, well, the character to me was the most notable character arc is Jimmy Dougan. Like everyone this is just sort of like, yeah, we have a little thing and then but like everyone pretty much stays the same and it's generally pretty static, but then he kind of does do it one eight. Yeah. Yeah. I also I just think it's so weird how there's like a sexual tension between Dottie and Jimmy Dugan. Yeah, that does not check out for me, But I mean nor does Gina Davis and Bill Pullman with a lamp. But Bob, he's like, oh and then he I wrote this time he's like he says, you're the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. I was like, he objectifyed Gina Davis. How could you? How could you? And she says she doesn't care. She's Bob's thing. Oh to be. I mean, the point I'm trying to make is it's you know, not the best thing ever that the character with the most notable character arc is the moment right, I mean, playing Devil's advocate. I could see the argument that it's not the women in the movie who have to change. They're trying to exist in a space as themselves and that's their real challenge. Where it's like the attitudes of the men in the league that need to change from the moment one. It's like the only person in this in this movie who actually is so flawed that he needs to change is Jimmy Dugan, Right, So like none of the basically, I think that's saying like, like all the women are fine and Jimmy Dugan is a fucking mess, which which is which is pretty much true. It's true, But there still could have been, Like it hasn't more dedication to like Dottie's character, she could have still had an arc in some way. It doesn't mean she needed to start out shitty and end up being like, oh I'm trying, I'm a better person now, like she still could have been. I totally agree. I mean, there's I think that really the only like I mean, there's like little stuff like there's a girl that learned how to read. There's like all that, you know, there's like little stuff. But the arc of the female character I liked was Kit because she don't like that. In that end scene with Dottie and Kit, Kid basically realizes that she wasn't like battling her sister, she was battling being insecure and then was I'm like almost crying. It's a beautiful scene. And then she she you know, she's just like, oh, you should stay, and Jina Davis is like, no, I had to go get pregnant from Bill Pullman, which what a crazy plan for your night. But and and you see like the sister relationship at the end where Dottie's that was one moment where I was like, yeah, Doddie's cool because more I'm like Diddy's boring. But when she's like happy for Kit when Kit wins because Kit, and then she says you wanted it more, which she did. Yeah, because like Dottie was never she didn't have her heart into which is another weird thing about this movie. The protagonist is not into baseball really, and she's like, okay, this is what I think. Okay again, I'm going to draw the parallel to Julius Styles's character and Lisa smile. I think she is really into it, but it's like the culture of the times dictated her life so much because she was clearly into it enough that she played enough that she was great at it, and she played in a farm league and learned the game inside it out, but felt her sense of duty to like whatever the cultural bullshit was at the time was just like overpowered that. Yeah. Yeah, I mean in that same scene where Gene Davis is like, I gotta go have babies, and Tank girls like you can have babies next year, and she's like, no, I gonna have babies today. Sorry, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what happens. Yeah, Bell Pollen has got a heart on it. He's got a limp. I've got to be accommodating. He's got a limp. The clock is ticking, my bob. Another interesting thing that happens in the movie is I think it's during the first game Dottie hits a home run. The announcer attributes the great thing that she did to Jimmy Dougan, being like, oh, he knew what to he told her the right thing to do, and like, so credit going to the wrong person, which happens a lot. And it's an example of just the assumption that if a woman does something good, it's because a man taught her how to do it or is somehow behind it, and it's dumb. Let's not do that anymore society. Tom Hankson's movie is just I mean again, just a bit. And then there he has I read this down his line at the end where he basically delivers the moral of the movie where I was just like, oh, come on, Like when he's trying to convince Dottie to stay, it's like baseball lights you up. It's what's inside you. And then she says it just got too hard, which I think is the better this movie, and a nudgell But then he says, it's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard is what makes it great, and it's just like, shut up. Like Tom hanks getting to be the moral compass of this movie is of course, because he would not agree to do a movie in which he was not the moral company. I think he might be a sociopath, but but likes the most famous line of the movie, which is one of the most famous lines in modern cinema. I want to tell he says five times, they don't cry to baseball, You just keep shut up. So the implication there with that line is that there's no crying in baseball because when it is a girl thing and baseball is a boy thing, the two can't intersect. The thing is, whenever men and boys are taught to not bet, you can't be vulnerable, you can't be emotional because you're a pussy if you are. Uh, the patriarchy is damaging to women and men. Well, men, it's okay to cry. Cry your little heart out. There is crying in baseball. Yeah. In fact, the only time I consistently see men cry is during sporting Yes. Yeah, so there is a lot of fucking crying in baseball. And have you seen the Little League World Series anyone? No? Wait, oh, are there a lot of crying? Daddy's there? Well, no, there's the kids are mess Oh. I mean, well that's the best obviously. Yeah. I get used to it. Bit life's hard. Oh. Another fun thing that Jimmy Dugan says, I haven't got ball players. I've got girls. Girls I want to sleep with after the game, not coach during the game. Hilarious, hilarious, good job. When he does that, he doesn't. He does a bunch of and I know it's supposed to be like he sucks now, but wait until the end when he says, you know, at the beginning he's like broad suck. At the end he's like, broads are good. He's like, you are a ball player. Drilogy, and that's what we call a character arc. You get boiled down to that. And then he has that prayer scene to where he's like, Jesus, remember that waitress I fucked or like whatever, and he's like, you know, because she was a screw reaming your name, which is Tom Hanks being like declaring he has that good d which is like he's got a great pickle to tickle women with. No way, Tom Tom Hanks for sure has a flesh love where no way, he's fully dickless. He is. Yeah, he's a smooth boy, and not to hate on it. I love a smooth boy. I love a guy with oh man, oh, Jimmy Dugan surprised kisses a woman whenever he's on the bus. He's on the bus and she drunk. She's the one. She's like like the chaperone chaperone who's been appointed look after and he's like waking around because the bus drive or just quit and then surprise. Every single movie has a surprise kiss. It's so annoying. But he is like waking up from a drunken stupor and he just grabs her and kisses her, and she's like and then when he realizes what he does, because she's another, you know, not classically beautiful woman by Western standards, and he's like, oh, oh my god, I'm so gross, and he like chugs some whiskey and then spits it out over the bus floor and then he slaps her ass later in the movie, but show that he's changed as a character, and he's like, no, I would touch you before I sectually sell accident, but now I'm sexually saulting you on because I mean, we've already talked at length about how it's not okay to surprise kiss the person. I just wanted to make note that that does in this movie. She's Louise. Yeah, well this is Rachel Whites. He's like a caged animal and lunges at her. It's startling, looks so crazy. Now, we were just talking about how we think he might be covered in scats. Oh god, we don't know. Oh jeez, what was gonna saying? Well, I thought about it, and he couldn't play Tom Hanks's part. He's too good of an actor. I would say, swap out Mollina and love it. If anything but I want, I would give it to Uh. He's the one who at first he's like, you guys don't want to play in these dresses when you could it off. And then later he's like, man, people love you girls playing baseball and take over the league. He's a great he's a master of his craft. He could sell that. Or if we're going in full beefcake, swap out Pullman and Molina and then we have very different I want to see Gina that Davis make out with Alford. Yes, I think that that. It's like, that's a better math than that's such a better match than Gina Davis, Bill Pullman a loveless marriage. At the end where she's like I don't need baseball. I have Bob, It's like, what are you talking about? Like I can't wait to quick comedy and just like I have Bob, I met someone named Bob and I don't need to do this thing any I have him now, I'm I'm actively looking for a reason to stop. For Molina is a national treasure and the first Broadway show I ever saw was Fiddler on the Roof shut Alfred Molina as incredible. I had no idea just he must have been the I mean, I've seen he's the perfect. He's the perfect. Deputy's the perfect. I don't know who I think I'm kidding. Of course, everything knows videos. He's such a he can do anything, he can do anything, he can do anything. Um when one last thing I want to say, Sorry to interrupt your Alfred Molina discussion. There's a short scene sandwiched in the middle of a montage later in the movie where a ball lands and it's near a black woman's foot and she picks it up and dotties like, throw it here, and she's nearby, and she's like, I'm going to actually throw it even farther because I'm good at baseball too. That says in a real person, right, is it? Oh? I'm not sure? And they're like, wow, she was good at throwing. The woman just sort of like gives them a little like nod. I mean, the implication is that she isn't allowed to play. She's not allowed to play. I looked up the color line. The color line in American baseball excluded, Yeah, excluded players of black African descent from Major League Baseball and its affiliated minor leagues until seven. So yeah, the implication is that she wouldn't have been allowed to play. The movie only spends like twenty seconds or less addressing like, oh, black people couldn't play baseball yet because it's a very white movie, understandably so because of the air. But I was like, it would have been nice for the movie to maybe address it a little more, like if there was like a black player, like maybe trying to try out and they're like, no, we're a bunch of shitty racists, so you can or something. I don't know. I just it felt weird that like, if you blank, you would miss that scene. Yeah, So I just wish it would have been addressed a little more thoroughly. I think, well, I think I actually I like the way that they I think it, you know, absolutely too short. The scene is definitely short, But I think that if they had really over explained it, it would have come off as almost like like I think I think it's just like giving the audience enough credit to be like, oh, it's obvious that she's not allowed to play, and then her coming into the scene makes you realize, oh, everyone on these teams is white, right right? I mean, which I guess you know you might not have noticed already. Yeah, there's a famous black female picture that I read about the named Mamie Johnson. Who. I think that that character is supposed to some sort of nod to or she was like a famous pitcher who ended up pitching in men's leagues for several years in the nineteen fifties. So interesting. Another bit of trivia. The woman who played kit Lorie Patty, was when she was growing up, she played she was the only girl on a boys baseball team, so she like she she didn't need to she already had this and during so during filming, she pitched more than most Major League baseball pitchers do in an entire season. That's amazing, tank Girl? Why do you keep calling? What is that? I don't know the reference either? She plays tank girl? What does tank Girl? It's like a really weird superhero movie. It was like a notorious flop. Okay, yeah, oh, I think I've seen the character of kit Is. For most of the movie before her arc she is just like a almost like a Charlie Brown Peanuts character. She's just like humph, it's so I mean, like she's a grown she's a grown woman. But even when she's like melcol at Cow and she's like why can't I play, It's like what are you? She She like acts like a little boy, but I love it. Yeah, she's like a little rascal. The final little thing I wanted to say was because this movie takes place in the forties, but it came out in summer. It came out in July nine two, just Shy of Yours Truly's premiere Onto This Earth. I mean, it was a very successful movie. It did very well, and I just was thinking about, like what the climate was when this movie came out, and like how that would inform how I did. But this is like when Hillary Clinton's like heavily on the campaign trail like this the summer this movie comes out, she's like sort of whatever, making her debut of sorts, um builds an office, She's on the campaign because this came out before the election. Yeah, she was. She was definitely the most vocal first lady and she was until that point she had the most like policy, say, probably of any first lady for sure, for sure, So I don't know, it's like, what was it like for women in great Yeah, I guess she got a lot of ship for saying when a reporter asked why she was like focusing so much on policy, where she was like, I'm not just going to stay home and bake cookies. And she got so much shit about that as recently as today on Twitter right now. Any other final thoughts that anyone has about the movie? Of course, this movie passes the Bechdel tests like a thousand times. We didn't talk about Rosie at all at all, and I know that we can't really know, but I just want to say my final my my parting thought about this movie is that the story of every movie ever is that Tom Hanks gained thirty pounds for this movie and was encouraged to eat as much as possible. And it said Rosie O'Donnell was told to eat as little as which is the story of every movie every damn it uh. Female director Penny Marshall, written by so the story credit story right well, Kim Wilson and Kelly Kelly is a man by the way, I thought Kelly was. I didn't. I just assumed how gender normantive. I need to assume that Kelly is a woman. Well that we have at least one and his mother played in in the League. Cool, but yeah, all the most of the writing credits are it's Lowell and then there's a Kim. I'm guessing Kim is a woman. But maybe I think Kim is a woman. I'm saying the screenplay was written by Lowell, Gans and Bubble, and but then there's like a story by credit from Kelly and Kim. I almost panicked because I thought I had somehow made up Bubble know you, it was on point. I was about to be like, where could that have possibly come from? Shout out to Babbalu still alive. But yeah, the movie passes the back to test a bunch of times, pretty much. I'd say in most scenes, they're only a handful of scenes where like two dudes are talking and there aren't any women, and those are the worst scenes, boring and usually they're talking about how women suck. But yeah, a ton of scenes past the backtel tests. So yeah, no surprise there. Let's write the movie on our nipple scale zero to five nipples. Based on its portrayal of women, I'm gonna give it. I think like a four or four and a half. It's it's going to rate pretty highly for me. It's annoying that the main character arc goes to a man and like I didn't even mention that. Like John Lavitce is like, we'll pay you seventy five dollars a week, whereas the top paid men baseball players of that era we're earning up to like fifty grand a year or more, which is, hey, guess what more than seventy five dollars a week. I did that math in my head. Wow, not like the other girl. Yeah, just so you know, sheds light on a bunch of different double standards that women face. So um yeah, it's just a cool movie. It's cool to see a sports movie about women. You almost never do. It's never cool to see a sports movie. But fuck you mighty ducks. Yeah, but we're taking the ducks to tax today on the facts. Okay, I'll never be able to run for office because I said, fuck the We're sticking it to the ducks. Yes, okay, So yeah, cool to watch a bunch of kickass ladies who are good at playing baseball be good at baseball, and it's a fun movie. So yeah, I'm gonna go with a four. I'm gonna give John Lovett too nipples and they do look like small kosher deal pickles, and yeah, just like rubbing his chest on his wife. The other two i'll give to Marla. I'll give it a four as well. Agree with what you're saying. I wish that we saw more flaws, and I like it really did bug me seeing like Dottie. I mean, you could have very easily given her one of Tom Hanks's problems. You know, it wouldn't be out of the question for a woman to have a drinking problem, speaking as one who's actively developing one. But like, I mean, she was up against a lot but didn't have any Achilles heel, and that was annoying and Tom Hanks is annoying and baseball's boring. Four nipples. I'll give two of the nipples to Oh, I'm gonna give all four nipples to the cow. Oh yeah, we see cow literal cot utter nipples. Yeah, yeah, there are exposed nips. Yeah. Well, because this movie was integral to my childhood and my development into the nightmare that I am today. I will give this five nipples a couple of months. Yeah, it's really hard for me to be objective about this movie because it is my childhood. And I think it was really nice to see because I think so often in movies that are written and directed by men where their female characters, the female characters are so flawed. I didn't really care that Dottie didn't have like Dottie was like perfect or whatever. I really didn't care. And also there was such a great variety of different personalities among the characters, like a like a brassy Long Island one Dolores. Uh yeah, Rosie was great. Um yeah, I just I really liked it. I love baseball. I don't care who knows, you're never going to get You're right, I baseball hating heathens. I really liked it, and I will give all the nipples to Madonna's kick gas dancing in the Julia, thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for having me. This is a this is a dream. I love I love the pod. Yeah, thank you so much. Where can people find you online? You can find me on Twitter too much at oh Julia tweets. I'm on Twitter a lot tweeting about America. Yea, Julia's Twitter feed is an adventure. Yeah, it's an adventure in exploring. You know what, some would say it used to be good. Uh well great. You can follow us on Twitter and Instagram at backtel Cast. You can check us on on Facebook. You can go to our website backtel cast dot com. Keep forgetting to say. You can give us money to us so bad, we're dying. And yeah, hey, there's no crying and baseball, except there's all the crying in baseball and in everything. Cry. Bye,