Beetlejuice: Everything You Didn't Know

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Speaker 1: Too Much Information is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello everyone, and welcome to Too Much Information, the show that brings you the secret histories and little known fascinating facts and figures behind your favorite movies, music, TV shows and more. We are your two nay three bio exorcists of Big Ticket Trivia. I'm Alex Heigel.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Jordan Runtug and today we are joined by really you know, if there's the fifth Beatle, there's the third tm.

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Speaker 4: Tm I trivia. What are we?

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Speaker 5: What's a you know, a T word that begins with stop it?

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Speaker 2: Titan Taco Titan Titan.

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Speaker 5: There we go, yeah, Tan Titans of Talking.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: See, this is why I am so happy to welcome with open arms and an open heart, our very own producer, Michael Alder June.

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Speaker 4: Hello, oh my god, welcome.

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Speaker 5: I'm so happy to be here with you, guys.

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Speaker 4: We're so happy to finally.

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Speaker 3: Have because I feel so bad because June is the one who makes us sound coherent and so and she'll be listening through all these episodes and texting us all these incredible insights that we should have brought up, and all these great jokes and all these things, and it's like, Okay, well, you know what. Finally June is visiting New York and stand with me, and you know what, it's time. I can't taken this long. And we're talking about one of her very favorite movies.

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Speaker 5: It took a trip through the hell mouth of JFK to get me on the show.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a surprising amount of similarities with the Afterlife as depicted by this movie. This is shockingly the first Tim Burton project that we've done. Yeah. I will forever be not a Night Member before Christmas, kid, because I was exactly the right age for that movie to come out and break my little heart as a little spooky child. And I think as an all, I have glombed onto ed Wood as like the most kind of mature and least annoying of of the iconic Tim Burton movies.

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Speaker 5: I can definitely understand that.

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Speaker 3: But I just, well, what are we talking about? I don't think we actually told folks what we're talking about.

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Speaker 2: Bio Exercis was the giveaway. You you herb what other's that's that's not a rec That's another thing I love about this movie that is not a recognized term in anything other than the Beetlejuice cinematic universe, What does a bio exit, although I guess the Ghostbusters have that no, because the ghosts aren't trying to get rid of the living in ghost Bud, or at least they're not referred to that way. Maybe the Frighteners, but Peter Jackson with Michael J. Fox kind of takes like a similar tack to it. But I don't really think. I think that term is entirely unique to that to this movie. Yeah, I know, I love this movie and I was a kid. Is so aggressively weird. It has this bizarre mythos that it doesn't really explain. It's gruesome in soight way. But as you referred to it earlier in a kind of haunted house kitch Way.

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Speaker 4: Portrait, haunted House, I think it's what I said, Hey.

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Speaker 2: Hey, yes, hey, ride haunted House. But yeah, I mean, it's honestly funny to me. It took this long for this movie to get a sequel, which is the other reason we're talking about it is that this year news finally broke that Beetlejuice two is happening, which is very sad or great for Michael Keaton, depending on how you're looking at it. Because he has now fully become the character that he was playing in Birdman, which is an actor, an actor forced into rehashing his old roles for rent money, first in as Batman in The Flash, and now is Beetlejuice in Beetlejuice two beat harder.

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Speaker 3: I just want to make an observation that I didn't realize this movie came out in March. I would have assumed that it was a Halloween movie.

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Speaker 2: You know, other than the death. It's not like a seasonal film either. I mean I can't really even like it doesn't even have that much of a sense of time. Like I don't if you were like, what time of year does Beetles just take place? And I would be like, June, it.

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Speaker 5: Takes place in a kitchen, I don't know, there's it's seasonless. Yeah, it takes place in an afterlife desert and in waiting rooms.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah yeah yeah, and and and a farmhouse and in what is I think it? I think they do make mention of it being Connecticut anyway, So June, what you you have a very you were attached to this film?

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Speaker 5: Yes, this was one of the few movies that I watched over and over and over again. When I was a kid, my parents adhered to the outdated, already medium of the Betamax onto which they recorded all sorts of movies from HBO's free weekends. So I watched a lot of Goodies, a lot of of Indiana Jones, and Beetlejuice was maybe the top of that holy trinity. And yeah, so between the movie and the Saturday Morning cartoon that later followed it, and my secretly wanting to be Lydiadiades, I was very inabord with this movie when I was like seven through ten years old.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I believe you dressed up as uh oh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I see that for Halloween.

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Speaker 5: When I was nine, I really wanted to be Beetlejuice for Halloween. This was two or three years after the movie came out. There was no way to pull together like a Beetlejuice costume. And Halloween night, my mom took me out to a mire like in our suburban Michigan town. It's kind of like Kroger our target, and we were going through the racks of children clearance pajama aisle and those telltale white and black stripes jumped out and there was like this old Saturday Morning cartoon pajama like merchandising tie in. So I got to be Beetlejuice for Halloween, wearing pajamas around my neighborhood. And then immediately after Halloween we moved down to Georgia. So I woke up at dawn still dressed, still dressed as Beetle Juice, somewhere driving through Kentucky.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's kind of like the lost like level of Orgon Trail.

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Speaker 2: Well, you can so looking at this picture, and first of all, the makeup is incredible, but looking at this picture, paint, yeah, the corpse paint. Looking at this picture, you can tell it immediately it's from the animated series because in the movie he wears a white shirt with it, and then the and the series had him had him with the pink undergarment. You know, his pink ensemble is his wedding look in the in the in the movie.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, we should say for the listeners at home that I have sent out a photograph of me dressed as Beetlejuice at nine years old, and it is perfect.

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Speaker 3: We will definitely be sharing that when we post this. Put that in the in the show notes. Okay, I don't have that level of attachment to this is. You know, I feel bad because after all these wonderful things that both of you said about you know how much this movie means to you, and you know, unlike Youkigel, I take no pleasure in denigrating stuff that you actually like. I didn't really engage with this movie much as a kid. Spooky, scary, creepy stuff. It really was never my thing, and just so the general tenor of this movie just kind of freaked me out. And that plus I took the title literally, so I thought for a time that this movie had something to do with juice made from beetles, which just grossed me out a lot.

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Speaker 4: So that was another part of the reason why I didn't really watch it.

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Speaker 3: So I don't have much to share from the childhood perspective, but I would like to say that the husband of my first boss wrote the Broadway musical.

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Speaker 4: Version of Beatlejuice from a few years back.

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Speaker 3: His name is Anthony King, and his wife is the incredibly talented writer and podcaster Kate Spencer, who is the co host of the very popular podcast Forever thirty five and the author of the New York Times best selling book In a New York Minute, although I don't know if it was best selling it. If it's not, it should be. If it's not, it will be after this shout out. But yeah, she was my first boss and editor at VH one dot com a long time ago, and she's awesome.

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Speaker 5: So she's going to go to a publisher, Like where did all these sales come?

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Speaker 2: F Oh you got the TMI bum Buddy.

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Speaker 5: June.

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Speaker 4: Out of the three of us, does the best cigar shopping executive.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I mean the cigar chomping executive in this story is David Geffit, which is like more of a like little little Boy, because a a small boy, but.

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Speaker 5: Please, I'd like small Baitel Juice.

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Speaker 2: Well, from the much darker original shooting script to the perils of building a bridge in Vermont for the film and that's not a setup to a joke, to the gross, gross look that they landed on for the titular character, and an update on its long delayed sequel. Here's everything you didn't know about Beetlejuice. Goth Icon, Tim Burton, or at least at least mainstream goth icon, sort of goth for dummies icon. I like Tim Burton. I just you know, he's not like it's so easy to give him. He's not eiter zende neubouten, you know, or like the birthday party. He's not like legit God. He's like, you know, your mom's idea of goth Anyways, hot topic. Yeah, he was born in Burbank. Made some shorts well. He was a student at the California Institute of the Arts where he was studying animation, and one of them, called stock of the Cellary Monster, which I have not seen, managed to get in the eyes of the House of Mouse and they offered him an apprenticeship at its animation division, where he picked up work as an animator, storyboard artist, graphic designer, art director, and concept artist on films like The Fox and the Hound, Tron and even The Black Cauldron, although you would be hard pressed to identify his touch on any of those except for possibly The Black Cauldron and so. While at Disney in nineteen eighty two, Burton made his first short, Vincent, which is a six minute black and white stop motion film based on a poem written by him which depicts a young boy who fantasizes that he is his hero, Vincent Price, and it was narrated by Vincent Price.

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Speaker 3: That was an animated version of the Don McLean song Vincent, you would start starring night?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you would, wouldn't you.

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Speaker 4: Uh. June's head is literally in her hands right now. And Vince too disapproving golf adjacent friends.

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Speaker 2: Vincent, Vincent, I can only lighten so much. Vincent Price is in his last role is in Edward Scissorhands, right, Oh that's wrong. Yeah, So that's a friendship that's very adorable. And then so two years later, Tim Burton's next short, franken Weeny, which is about a young boy's attempt to resurrect his beloved dog after it's hit by a car, comes out well, sort of doesn't. Despite the film starring Shelley Duvall and Daniel Stern. Disney fired fired him for using company resources to make his weird little goth German expressionist passion projects, which.

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Speaker 4: Is such a great premise for a movie.

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Speaker 2: Though sad and hilarious. Well, I think they did. They see this just proves I haven't kept up with him in like a decade and change. Didn't they make a CGI, a live or a live action franken Weenie. I think you're right, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was twenty twelve.

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Speaker 5: I believe they showed it in front of some Disney feature. I can't remember, though.

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Speaker 4: It might've even been as in Wonderland.

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Speaker 5: It may have been.

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Speaker 3: Did you ever see The Family Dog? His short lived sitcom animated sitcom.

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Speaker 2: Tim Burton's Family What? Yeah? Oh, look this up.

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Speaker 3: It's so interesting. I think they only aired. I want to say, like.

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Speaker 2: Oh, Brad Bird he exec produced this, but this was It was the first collaboration between Spielberg and and Burton and created by Brad Bird. It is wild. One critic called it one of the biggest fiascos in television animation history, on both a creative and commercial commercial level. In spite but in many ways because of the high powered talent behind the project. Savage put that on my tombstone.

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Speaker 5: So while nobody at Disney liked him, the film and Burton did have one prominent fan, and that was Paul Rubins. Naturally, pee wee Herman himself. Rubens chose Burton to direct the cinematic spin off of his show, the film Peebe's Big Adventure, which was made on a budget of eight million dollars.

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Speaker 4: Jesus, that's like nothing.

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Speaker 5: Right, it's it's that's pocket change, that's lint from from some executive's couch compared to other films, but it managed to gross more than forty million dollars at the North American box office. So Burton was all of a sudden, very bankable off of a Peewee Herman movie, which I love, that had perhaps the most terrifying moment of my child. Of course.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was large March was a couple's costume, and my girlfriend she was pee wee. I was large March, and I took glasses and we cut like two styrofoam spheres and hot glued them to you know, where the eyes would be, and just put a dot in the middle of each one and walked around with my mouth open and these huge eyes.

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Speaker 4: It's pretty horrifying. That's put that in the show notes too along if you're all.

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Speaker 5: See that's way scarier than mine. The Britain is all of a sudden a hot property, and so he's pulled into script development for the movie Batman. But while Warner Brothers was happy to pay him to tinker on the script, they were a lot less willing to greenlight the film, so he still didn't have a next project. He said to The Independent in twenty eighteen. I was being offered any bad comedy. It was a case of you do a bad comedy, you get offered all of the bad comedies.

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Speaker 4: He's Batman?

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Speaker 3: Is Tim Burns Batman rather the one that Prince did the soundtrack for her? Yes, I just learned because I was working on something about Prince. Uh. The only reason he took that job was because he had a crush on Compassenger.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think I didn't.

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Speaker 3: He tried to record an album with him, yeah, and it was terrible and he shelved it because she is not a singer.

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Speaker 4: She's active.

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Speaker 2: I was just reading on about Tim Burton's time at Disney. He was such a square peg in a round hole there that he became visibly depressed at work.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 2: He slept in a closet while he was there, and another new animator, Andreas Dea, was teamed with him to essentially try and get it to speed. That's the guy who did the concept art for Beast.

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Speaker 4: I was gonna say, I thought I thought he also did the the chest hair for guests.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so you worked on Beauty and the Beast, But yeah, imagine, imagine you're you're you're like a young upstart at Disney, and you get this Robert Smith looking guy who's been falling asleep in closets because he's so depressed, and they're like, yeah, ah, make it, make it work. So anyway, the original script for Beetlejuice was written by a guy named Michael McDowell, who is quite has a bit of a career as like a horror author. I didn't read too much about everything that he's done, but among this, he wrote the script for The Jar, which was an episode of Alfred Hitchcock Presents that was directed by Burton. Funnily enough, the original draft for this was out there. Beetlejuice was a winged demon and his human appearance was that of a Middle Eastern man. He avowedly wanted to just kill the Deats family and not just scare him. And the accident, you know, spoilers for a thirty year old film. The Maitlands die in the in like the opening minutes of the film, and that was I think they died in a house fire. Their death was very graphic. Oh no, I'm sorry. Lydia was going to die in a fire and and be a dead ghost daughter to the Maitlands and Beetlejuice wanted to rape her. So that was the original script that they were working with, and it was so bad or so whatever that Larry Wilson, who's the guy who has a story by credit on it, has talked to in an interview about bringing this first draft to an executive at Universal who told him, you're developing into a very good executive. You've got grace, taste and material. Why are you going to squander all that for this piece of shit.

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Speaker 5: This is reminding me of the fact that, like the movie Cool Runnings, the Jamaican Bob Sledding movie had a way darker original script that had I didn't know, yeah one of them was going to get hooked on smack or something, Oh yeah, Oh no, it was the screenwriter who was hooked on smack while he was writing it, and the original script was way darker as a result. So, oh my god, I cannot even imagine this movie. We could have gone this guy or could never have got this guy. Michael McDowell was once blurbed by Stephen King is the finest writer of paperback originals in America today and one of his last His unfinished novel was finished by Stephen King's wife, Tabitha King.

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Speaker 2: So go Figure. He also wrote Okay, So Good Bone. He also wrote the novelization of the film Clue.

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Speaker 4: I love how much you love your novelization?

00:18:30
Speaker 2: Oh Man, I was a big novelization kid ground Lade. Yeah, that book taught me how to curse.

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Speaker 5: So.

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Speaker 2: Larry Wilson's other gig was teaching extension courses at UCLA and they had like a script he was in. He ran like a script development class and through a young woman taking that class, whose name is Marjorie Lewis. She was a development executive at the Geffen Film Company and in early eighty five Wilson Larry Wilson brought Marjorie Lewis the script for Beetlejuice and asked her to read it, and she said she was blown away, she said to the ringer in twenty eighteen, and so much so that she dropped it on the desk of the then Geffen president Eric Eisner and told told him that she would quit if they didn't buy it, and they did. Just as Burton was wrapping production on Pee's Big Adventure for Warner Brothers, The Geffen Film Division's parent company. So it's a case of a lot of the timelines converging. And Burton told Rolling Stone in nineteen eighty eight and a feature for the making of Beetlejuice. The things that interest me most are the things that potentially won't work. A lot of people have ragged on the story of Beetlejuice, but when I read it, I thought, Wow, this is sort of interesting. It's very random. It doesn't follow what I would consider the Spielberg story structure. I guess I have to watch it more because I'm intrigued by things that are perverse, Like I was intrigued that there was no story Jordan take the next ones.

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Speaker 3: Burton like the bone of the story, but he jettison McDowell and Wilson, and he brought on a famed script doctor named Warren Scarin to bring things more into lineup with He envisioned Scarin's credited with a lot of punch ups in the eighties. He helped top Gun with stuff like the Righteous Brothers scene and rewrites, and he got Tom Cruise back on board with romance and more emotional development for Maverick. Because I guess Tom Cruise just wanted to be flying the large planes. Past plans excuse Me, the less successful follow up to Fast Car, and also burnished Jack Nicholson's joker dialogue for Tim Burton's Batman movie.

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Speaker 4: Burton met Scarin in Austin in.

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Speaker 3: Nineteen eighty six or nineteen eighty seven and spent a weekend banding about ideas for the film of Beetlejuice. Scarin introduced music to the film. He recommended that Lydia sing Percy Sledge is when a man loves a woman at the end of the film, and they also arrived at the Afterlife as a vision of a dull bureaucracy, and they Beatle Juice is more of an annoying trickster character than you know, a winged demon who's killing and raping.

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Speaker 4: And did he eat I feel like he ate something that he shouldn't have eaten. In one of the early drafts, maybe not.

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Speaker 2: Did you guys see that the tweet or image macro meme or whatever that was Like, that's dating myself even calling an image macro. That was just a picture of like Beetlejuice and Jim Carrey and dumb and dumber. And then in the mask, and it was like you used to be able to make movies on a premise of what if a guy was just really annoying?

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Speaker 3: What was They mentioned earlier that Tim Burton was saying that he didn't think that the early script of Beetlejuice followed a Spielberg's story structure.

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Speaker 4: What does that mean?

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Speaker 2: A good one, like a conventional, conventional one.

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Speaker 5: It has a beginning in the middle and an end. Yeah, and something with a father and a son. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

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Speaker 2: The main characters don't die in a car crash in the first ten minutes.

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Speaker 3: So bolstering up the script of Beetlejuice, which again needed a lot of work, took a lot of work. For a lot of time on Beetlejuice, I felt like I was in court giving depositions Tim Burton to all the independent I remember having script meetings that lasted for like twenty four hours over the course of two days. By the end of it, we were questioning every element and hilariously, Warner Brothers just wanted to call the project house Ghosts.

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Speaker 4: But Tim Burton.

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Speaker 3: Nearly had an aneurysm when, as a joke he suggested Scared Sheetless and they wanted to go with that.

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Speaker 2: That's I mean, Scared sheetless, that's fun. Scared sheetless is better. But yeah, he's talked about in I think I forget which interview. He doesn't give very many big in depth interviews, but yeah, at one point, House Ghosts is just that sounds like something.

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Speaker 4: We would pitch on that I'm not getting or no.

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Speaker 2: Just a low effort. It sounds like something that we would pitch as a joke, you know, one thing that I've never been.

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Speaker 5: I mean, it's kind of like house Guests, Oh sure, but not close enough.

00:23:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like not enough.

00:23:06
Speaker 4: Yeah, such a fine line between stupid and clever.

00:23:11
Speaker 2: House guests and fish smelling after three days?

00:23:13
Speaker 5: Is that?

00:23:14
Speaker 3: That?

00:23:14
Speaker 2: Isn't that? That?

00:23:15
Speaker 4: That?

00:23:15
Speaker 2: Similarly something? Anyway, the movie could have even been even weirder, though, if Tim Burton had gotten his initial casting choice.

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Speaker 5: I just want to point out that Heigel has titled this section I myself am Strange and Unusual. I love that. So Burton's initial choice for the title role was Sammy Davis Junior, which I'm.

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Speaker 2: Just saying out loud sounds like a try.

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Speaker 5: And in response, David Geffen reacted poorly. Burton said in an interview that when he pitched Sammy Davis Junior, that was the first time I ever heard crickets chirp chip. So, after ranting to Burton and Marjorie Lewis about why that would not work, David Geffen responded with Michael Keaton, which, it's it feels odd to me, like I get it. At the same time, it feels odd to like, that's that's a weird card move.

00:24:11
Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:24:12
Speaker 5: So like like I see your Sammy Davis Junior and I raised I'm raising you, Michael Keaton. Mister I'm raising you, mister mom. So uh odd move. Keaton had a strong start of the decade with his hits like Night Shift in nineteen eighty two Mister Mom in eighty three, but more recently had anchored the underwhelming and underperforming Touch and Go and a movie called Gung Ho in eighty six and a movie called The Squeete in eighty seven. Nope, no idea. I have not seen any of these movies, and Keaton barely seemed to want to do it either. He turned down the role twice, telling The Independent, I didn't quite get it and I wasn't looking to work with That's some stones. Yeah, before accepting the role. Finally, I didn't understand what he was talking about, Keaton said to Charlie Rose in twenty fourteen. I said, I wish I could do it. You seem like a really nice guy, and I know that you're creative, but I don't get it. Funnily enough, producers also considered Producers also considered Dudley Moore. Can you imagine that a Dudley Moore beetlejuice?

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Speaker 4: I mean, I Dudley Moore was in a movie.

00:25:30
Speaker 3: He was in the original Bedazzled in the sixties with Peter Cook, and Dudley Moore was like kind of the nebeshy guy the Devil screws with But I could almost if you reframe it as like kind of like an English trickster.

00:25:42
Speaker 4: What was the movie with Phoebe Kate's and Rick Mayol.

00:25:45
Speaker 5: Oh uh dropped dead Fred dropped Fred?

00:25:47
Speaker 4: Yeah, I almost see that. I could almost see that working.

00:25:51
Speaker 5: I can. I can see that as this is like the weird upside down version of what's the famous Dudley Moore movie Arthur?

00:26:00
Speaker 4: Yeah?

00:26:00
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, like the upside down version of Arthur. So producers were considering ally more and also comedian and also comedian Sam Kinnison.

00:26:11
Speaker 2: That would have been awful.

00:26:12
Speaker 5: That would have immediately managers supposedly never bothered to inform Sam Kinnison of the studio's interest. I imagine when Kennison finally learned about it, he screamed.

00:26:24
Speaker 2: About that probably would have immediately consigned this to the dust be dustbin of history. Can you imagine how.

00:26:30
Speaker 5: Oh absolueting he would have been in this, like just completely one note, yeah, jacked.

00:26:37
Speaker 2: Out of his mind, like, h no.

00:26:40
Speaker 5: Don't judge as hate it, what that happens.

00:26:42
Speaker 2: Good move, Sam Kinison's manager circa nineteen eighty five.

00:26:48
Speaker 5: Thank you for saving us all from a terrible fate.

00:26:51
Speaker 3: Well, back to Michael Keaton, I'm legally obligated to mention the fact that Michael Keaton's first show business job was working for mister Rogers as a stagehand. Oh yeah, he's been in a bunch of like Mister Rogers specials and documentaries.

00:27:05
Speaker 5: I think it was like Katy, that's so cute, right, And I also.

00:27:10
Speaker 3: Didn't realize until watching a like a that I think it was on Amazon or something, a docu series on the comedy store Famous Club in la. I had no idea that he was a stand up that was like came up with the same class with David Letterman and Jay Leno and all those people in the late seventies.

00:27:27
Speaker 4: I didn't know that.

00:27:28
Speaker 2: I didn't think. I don't think I knew he was from Pittsburgh.

00:27:31
Speaker 5: That's wild, that's your takeaway. Yes, More importantly so, Burton was talking to The Independent in that aforementioned interview and said, Michael Keaton, Michael Keaton is a maniac, a live wire, and he's got these he's got those great eyes, and a lot of the stuff in the film was improvised. I would go over to Michael's house and the two of us would come up with jokes. It was really fun because we were essentially creating a carearacter. And this improvisation that the two of them had going on in pre pro continued on set, with Keaton telling Rolling Stone, you show up on the set and you just go it was rave acting. You rage for twelve or fourteen hours, and then you go home tired and beat and exhausted. It was pretty damned cathartic. He also added, I started thinking about my.

00:28:24
Speaker 4: Hair, my acting choices.

00:28:31
Speaker 5: I wanted my hair to stand out like I was wired and plugged in, and once I started getting at I actually made myself laugh and I thought, well, this is a good sign. This is kind of funny. And then I got the attitude. And once I got the basic attitude, it really started to roll. Despite all of that, he only filmed for about two weeks, which that's hilarious.

00:28:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, of the ad libbing, he said. Alec Baldwin said that the part where he goes, he like hawks up a loogie and spits it into the inside of his jacket and then pats it and says, oh, I'll save that one for later, a like Paulman said he almost choked when he saw him do that.

00:29:08
Speaker 5: And it's such an aside too, It's such a throwaway joke.

00:29:12
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

00:29:14
Speaker 5: The first thing I remember writing about the character, or saying to Keaton about the character was he SCRATCHO Marx from Hell. Yeah, which h That quote comes from Larry Wilson to Yahoo. He was supposedly also said elsewhere that he was inspired by Bill Moseley's performance as chop Top, one of the murderous Reds in the Texas Chainsaw him ask her too, which actually.

00:29:41
Speaker 2: It makes entirely too much sense, and it's really funny because it would have come out like right around that time. And uh, Texas chainsawm Asacer too is such a wild departure from the first one in terms of it's going for like this really insane It's basically where Rob Zombie his in his entire career from It's going for this really fun house demented comedy. The poster was famously a parody of the Breakfast Club poster, and Bill Moseley is so obnoxious in that movie, and like, it's so funny. It's so perfect to me that that Michael Kean would have seen it and been like, yeah, I wanna I'm gonna do that, am.

00:30:21
Speaker 4: I go Keat have a coke problem? Just watching this movie kind of makes me think maybe it's possible.

00:30:28
Speaker 2: It's apparently in the musical, apparently, one of the things in the musical that critics didn't like was Beatletice does a line they thought that was in poor taste.

00:30:42
Speaker 1: We're gonna take a quick break, but we'll be right back with more too much information in just a moment.

00:31:00
Speaker 2: So Oscar winning makeup artist v Neil said that when she first copied some of Burton's sketches of the character on to Keaton, the results were actually too scary and not silly enough. We've talked a lot about Burton has talked a lot about German Expressionism, but the film of such a punchline these days. Portlandy has a whole sketch about people getting it from Netflix and never watching it as the cabinet of Doctor Kligari. And in that movie you see the big like grease paint circles around the eyes, and so that was and the vertical lines of the suit. There's also parts of the architecture in the Afterlife that have the sort of canted hallway angles descending into the distance. So that was. It's a through line in all of Burton's career, but this was, I think more than Pee Wee, the first movie where he really got to flex that as an influence. So they did make some changes. They went with pale yellow makeup bordering on white for his skin, green hair dye for the wig, purple and brown makeup for the giant under eye circles, and one very specific tool to make him look like he had mold on him. Because Keaton and Burton decided that Beetlejuice lived under rocks new recalled Diyahoo. I sent a pao off to the hobby store and I said, get me some crushed green foam like they use on model kits for moss and stuff like that. I said, we'll put some moss in his hair. We'll just make it look like he crawled out from underneath a rock. So I got this crushed green foam and I painted up the areas where I wanted it to come out. I wanted it to look like it was creeping out from underneath his hairline and his neck and stuff. I just stuck it on wherever the glue was. Hollywood gluing hobby foam onto your lead actor. Keaton, for some reason, also wanted Beetlejuice to have a broken nose, but the makeup team didn't have any prosthetic noses. But what they did have were prosthetic lips, so they just put fake lips on either side of his nose to make it look more bulbous. And one of Burton's gnostic proclamations to Keaton that the character of Beetlejuice lived in every time period but was of no time period. So Keaton got his wardrobe for the character by saying, to wardrobe the wardrobe department, he said, just send me a rack of stuff from every time period, like literally a whole rack, and I will just mix and match.

00:33:24
Speaker 4: Uh.

00:33:24
Speaker 2: And when he said and and he I think he said in a different interview that when he came on to set for the first time, he was worried that he'd pushed it too far with h with the look, and the crowd just or the crew just started chanting juice at him, which maybe they thought OJ was there that day. But that joke on the land, okay, you were, You're just giving it space to breathe.

00:33:50
Speaker 3: I was, Yeah, you know, it's like an Annie Hall when the Woody Allen snorts the earth, sneezes and blows the cocaine everywhere.

00:33:57
Speaker 4: They got such a huge laugh in theaters that they.

00:33:59
Speaker 3: Do in the roll of Palm Trees or something afterwards, because it was stepping on the next line in the next scene.

00:34:06
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what I was doing.

00:34:08
Speaker 3: Test audience has responded so well to Michael Keaton, who amazingly doesn't appear in this movie until forty five minutes and is only on screen for something like twenty minutes that audience has actually rejected the original ending that had him trapped in the Maitland's model home and plagued by sandworms, so a newer, more comedic ending with him in the afterlife waiting room was filmed.

00:34:29
Speaker 5: Where he gets his headstrong.

00:34:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had that act sorry, I had that action figure of him at the shrunken head. And another fun fact, the legs he's like seated in between a woman who has been bisected. I think she's supposed to be like a magician's assistant who died in an on stage accident. And the legs are played by Tim Burton's then girlfriend, which you know we'll get to this later. But Tim Burton must be slinging some dong like you wouldn't believe because that guy punches above his weight. Man girlfriend is Monica friggin' Baluchi. I'm telling you, Tim Burton, monster dong. You heard it here first on tm I that's our pool quote monster dong. It's probably just also like a nice guy. Jordan, what are your thoughts on Tim Burton's monster dong.

00:35:24
Speaker 5: That's what played the sadles.

00:35:26
Speaker 2: Actually, I was not able to find out if those are obvious dune rip. But they seem like an obvious dune rip, not just because Lydia comes back in riding it at the end The Desert Planet Giant Worms feels like maybe I just see dune and everything.

00:35:44
Speaker 5: No, I think that this one is pretty plainly obvious. That is funny that she would be the Shaihlu Paul.

00:35:58
Speaker 3: Now I'm just looking at like those goals that are like I'm looking on right now.

00:36:02
Speaker 4: From the Clever dot Com.

00:36:03
Speaker 3: Fifteen Beautiful women who fell in love with Uguy.

00:36:07
Speaker 2: I didn't say he was ugly. I just said he's punching above his weight. I knew what it meant.

00:36:16
Speaker 3: Felicity Huffman and William H. Macy, Polina post Cova.

00:36:20
Speaker 2: Oh Rick okask that was a crazy one. Yeah, dude looked like a praying mantis.

00:36:24
Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:36:25
Speaker 3: A lot of these are like old rock stars like Ronnie Wood who are married to like twenty five year old ballerinas.

00:36:31
Speaker 4: That's not fair. Samahayak and a guy who looks like Gene Hackman.

00:36:35
Speaker 2: Oh, but that dude's like that dude's like loaded, he's like a billionaire. I think Samahayak's husband.

00:36:41
Speaker 3: Sure, but okay, Julia Roberts and I love it a guy no, butly love it was going to be my runner up, Amber Tamblin and David Cross, Christina Hendricks and that guy who was uh the Snosberry's tastes like strashberries from Super Chip.

00:37:01
Speaker 4: What's his name? Uh? Jeffrey arnand Kristen.

00:37:05
Speaker 3: Bell and Dax Shepherd, Mary kay Olsen and Sarko Si.

00:37:10
Speaker 5: Dax Shepherd is not a bad looking.

00:37:12
Speaker 3: Guy, Mary, Tina Fey and a guy who looks like Peter Dinklage. Oh, Pat Mlachchi paup Mlachchie was with Salmon rush Down. I didn't know that post Fatwa and number one on this list Cafain Sated Jones and Michael Douglas.

00:37:32
Speaker 2: Michael Douglas. Michael Douglas was swinging some hog in the eighties.

00:37:37
Speaker 5: Oh absolutely he the Gordon Gotcoke. Come on. So the role of the goth teenager Lydia dets I'm jumping on this please. The role of the god teenager Lydia Deads was difficult to fill as well, so also up for the role was Sarah Jessica Parker. I have a lot to say about that Brookshields Jennifer Connelly would have killed this, and Molly ringwol All turned down the role. Juliette Lewis auditioned for the part. She would have been good.

00:38:09
Speaker 2: She does too much.

00:38:11
Speaker 5: But the person who got closest to it and didn't get it was Alyssa Milano, who admitted to a Huff Pust Live in twenty sixteen that she really wanted that part. He can't have it. It was between the two of us, and Wenona Ryder actually got the part. I always wonder what would have happened differently in my life had that worked out. Not that I would want it to be any different, but it's just an interesting thought game. I believe you. Burton had just seen sixteen year old Winona Ryder debut in the nineteen eighty six coming of Age story Lucas. In an interview with Marie Clare, Ryder said that she was bullied at school before her film career, and that she had hoped that her appearance and Beetlejuice would make her more popular. It did not. I remember thinking, oh, it's like the number one movie. This is going to make things great at school. But it made things worse. They called me a witch. It's so funny. I know, it's so sad for her. The writer Larry Wilson revealed in an oral history for CBC Radio that he found inspiration for Lydio while seeing again Robert Smith is going to just be a tertiary character throughout this entire episode. Uh. He found inspiration for Lydia while seeing the Cure perform in concert and looking at the young woman, looking at the young women in the audience, which, of.

00:39:33
Speaker 3: Course, I just want to shout out Mermaids with Menana Ryder and you.

00:39:37
Speaker 2: Love that movie.

00:39:40
Speaker 4: I mean share that movie. Oh my god, you've this.

00:39:43
Speaker 2: You've mentioned that movie quite a lot.

00:39:45
Speaker 5: Actually, I know.

00:39:46
Speaker 2: You just saying, just saying, uh.

00:39:50
Speaker 4: Have you have you not seen it?

00:39:51
Speaker 2: I'm not in yours?

00:39:53
Speaker 4: Oh it holds up is great.

00:39:55
Speaker 3: Angelica Houston was initially cast as the Deets Families art damaged May Triarch, but dropped out due to illness. So Katherine O'Hara and the Great Katherine O'Hara, who also initially passed on the part.

00:40:07
Speaker 4: Nobody wanted to be in this goddamn movie.

00:40:09
Speaker 3: She came on board when Tim Burton flew out to meet with her personally. Burton later told The Independent the only person who initially really wanted to do it was Gina Davis, though it did end up working out for Katherine O'Hara, who met and eventually married production designer.

00:40:23
Speaker 4: Bo Welsh while working on Beetlejuice.

00:40:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, apparently the scene of Beetlegees eats the Fly is a wink at the fact Gina Davis, who had been in The Fly. Oh, super funny to me. That's great. Yeah, I love the fact that she was the only one who was like gung ho for this.

00:40:40
Speaker 3: Katherine O'Hara has a pretty great anecdote about her non audition for Beetlejuice. She's talking to The New Yorker very recently said, I've been asked to audition for Beetlejuice. I had all these calls with David Geffen, who was a producer. I didn't know him at the time. Out of ignorance, I was like, who is this guy? Keeps bugging me, keeps calling and saying this is the part for you, you should be doing this. He kept calling. Then they said they wanted me to meet this guy, Tim Burton. I didn't know Tim Burton. And finally I was depressed at home and I had nothing going.

00:41:12
Speaker 4: I said, okay, I'll go to audition, I'll go meet him.

00:41:16
Speaker 3: I was so sad that I decided to meet. That's an incredible metric for depression. So she flew to la from Toronto and I rented a car. She said the address was in Burbank. I drove for hours.

00:41:31
Speaker 4: I thought, what.

00:41:31
Speaker 3: Kind of director is this far from show business? I was so late, I got lost. There was no cell phone. I had to pull over somewhere and find a phone booth and phone my agent. Finally, two hours late, I got to Burbank. There was a note on the door from Tim Burton. It said I'm sorry. I waited as long as I could. I go back home the Toronto and a few weeks later they offered me the.

00:41:53
Speaker 2: Part that turned out well for her. Funnily enough, though, Geena Davis, despite being stoked on the film, wasn't Burton's initial choice for the character of Barbara Maitland. I've read that Kirsty Alley was and that she couldn't get out of her Cheers contract to shoot. But adorably, this was the first set on which Geena Davis's parents got to actually come see her work. The Beetlejuice was shot in Vermont, and her parents lived close enough by that they came and visited her on set, bearing baked goods for Gina to distribute to the rest of the cast. She wrote this in her memoir, and then an assistant director used her parents as extras in a scene to keep them busy. It is adorable. Alec Baldwin, who plays the other half of the Maitland's, did not have high hopes for the film. He was talking about to GQ and he said, when we did Beetlejuice, I had no idea what it was about. I thought, my all of our careers are going to end with the release of this film. Maybe we're all going to be dead. Hilario. Oh, yeah, that has an aged Yeah, Balbin's a prick. Yes. Tim Burton then proceeded to stack the rest of the cast with his favorite celebrities from bygone eras sixties crooner Robert Goulay and talk show host Dick Cavett. Robert Goulay are given roles as the deep snobby friends, and Burton hounded Hollywood silver age actress Sylvia Sidney incessantly until she agreed to play the salty, undead social worker Juno.

00:43:27
Speaker 3: I just want to like praise the fact that you just said Sylvia Sidney incessantly.

00:43:31
Speaker 2: I'm a damn professional. Her appearance in Mars Attacks a few years later in nineteen ninety six was her last role, so she and she made friends with Tim Burton. There's a piece about the making a beetlejuice for the Ringer and one someone recalls Sylvia Sidney opening a gift basket she'd gotten from the hotel Wild Chain smoking and just exclaiming, what the am I supposed to do with a pineapple? Jordan take Dick cavit, I know you love Dick Cavitt.

00:44:00
Speaker 5: I love Dick.

00:44:01
Speaker 3: Cot Dickkeviott actually saved the day when making this movie. It was when they were filming the iconic dinner scene. He told Yahoo that Tim Burton was running in a difficulty getting the final shots in which the shrimp cocktail turns into hands. Oh, they grabbed the guests and hosts faces into their bowls. Because SFX workers were under the table and couldn't actually see who they were grabbing, they kept missing their marks.

00:44:24
Speaker 4: So Dick Kevitt suggested they film that.

00:44:26
Speaker 3: Part in reverse, and Bert thought that was a great idea and decided.

00:44:30
Speaker 2: To do just that.

00:44:31
Speaker 3: He filmed some takes of the hands grabbing the stars faces then lowering back down into the table, and then I don't know who this is, Sogel tell us about Jeffrey Jones.

00:44:40
Speaker 5: Oh do we have to talk Jeffrey Jones.

00:44:43
Speaker 4: Jeffrey Jones.

00:44:44
Speaker 2: Higel tell us about the pediast. Jeffrey Jones, the actor who plays Lydia's dad and, perhaps more famously, the dean in Ferris Bueller. Oh yeah. He was arrested for possession of chod pornography in two thousand and two and accused of a seventeen year old boy who is fourteen at the time. The offense allegedly occurred of trying to get the jeffreyed wanted to take some bathing suit area pictures of this youth. Jones.

00:45:13
Speaker 4: Can I just say, sometimes you can judge a book buck cover.

00:45:17
Speaker 2: He does have that aura about him. Jones pleaded no contest to a charge of soliciting a minor and the misdemeanor charge of possession of child bornography was dropped, But despite getting off relatively lightly with a five year probationary period. He was arrested twice for failing to update his sex offender status, first in Florida in two thousand and four and then six years later in California. So folks watch out for Jeffrey Jones. He could be anywhere.

00:45:47
Speaker 5: We should have cut that off at the pass and just arrested him after Howard the Duck. Oh god, so that unpleasantness aside. Moving on, Principal photography on Beetled began March eleventh, nineteen eighty seven. Beatlejuice's budget was fifteen million dollars, with just one million dollars given over to visual effects work, which, knowing the visual effects in this movie, that is very surprising to me, considering the scale and scope of the effects, which included stop motion, replacement, animation, prosthetic makeup, popetry, blue screen. It was always Burton's intention to make the style similar to the B movies that he grew up with as a child. He said, I wanted to make them look cheap and purposely fake looking, he said to Mark Shapiro in eighty eight, we went big and more personal with them. What people will see are effects that are, in a sense a step backwards. They're crude, they're funky, but they're also very personal. Oh, case in point, the animatronic snake that attacks them, that the banister that turns into a snake was actually built before Keaton was cast. Producers were concerned that the audiences wouldn't connect that the snake was simply a random monster, so they had to pivot and outfit it with a brand new head that looks like Heaton as Beetlejuice. And then they reshot it.

00:47:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, they for the scene of the Maitlance come back into their home after drowning and realize they don't have any reflections. They just reversed the set, like they pulled the wall back around that they just moved one of the walls back so that they could film it through the mirror. It's just really like just old timey like they would do, you know, back in back in the day, Tim Burton had wanted to hire a guy named Anton First as production designer after being impressed with his work on Neil Jordan's pre Crying Game masterpiece, The fairy Tale sex drama The Company of Wolves Fairytale were Wolf sex Drama, I should say, and also full metal Jacket another movie you may have heard of, although first was committed elsewhere, and so Burton went with Bo Welch. This turned out to be a fruitful collaboration. The pair continued to work together on Edward Scissorhands and Batman Returns. But Welch told Uprocks, when I met Tim, it was like a breath of fresh air in terms of liberating me from dreary realism. He would push me towards German expressionism and reference other movies. He was always a fan of the old horror movies, but he would view them with a sense of humor in that period. When you try and wrap your head around his aesthetic, you learn it was a fantastic experience that I changed the way I approach movies from then on.

00:48:30
Speaker 5: I'm really curious, Heigel, because I think among the three of us, you are the horror movie connoisseur. So can you maybe talk about like Burton as like sort of a con do it?

00:48:44
Speaker 2: It is interesting like.

00:48:45
Speaker 5: The person like he's the filmmaker too horror movies, as like Tarantino is to Grindhouse.

00:48:52
Speaker 2: He isn't. I don't think he's he he comes from I think he's of the age that he missed the Eindhause stuff because not a lot of his movies have that really nasty seventies sensibility. He's definitely like an atomic age fifties b guy. And I think it's an interesting divide because even though he's sort of the same age as some of the people who we associate with the big seventies auteur era of horror, like John Carpenter and Wes Craven, there's it's just like they were freshmen when he was a senior or vice versa thing, because like their set of influences just so different. Even though you know, a lot of people talk about German expressionism like, oh, you know, I really wanted to use the angles you find in German expressionism. And also, like you know, another big one is Night of the Hunter. Like if you talk to Scratch any like six horror directors and they'll five of them will say, well, I'm really influenced by the lighting and use of shadow and Night of the Hunter. So you see that a lot is the one of John Carpenter's big John Carpenter, weirdly enough, is obsessed with and this is what I say, this is why Again, it's like it's like two roads diverged in a wood. Because John Carpenter's influences were Westerns. He was obsessed with Howard Hawks and and Rio Bravo and like the Searchers and stuff. So again, same period of media, like the fifties and stuff. Just Tim Burton was like, I like the flying saucer men pictures and the guys in rubber suits, and John Carpenter was like, a, you know, I just like Westerns, but I'll make spooky movies instead of Western. I don't think he's ever made a pure Western, except for maybe John Carpenter's Vampires, which is a real piece of shit. But but Burton is really funny because, you know, being from California and not from like the dismal industrial environs that influenced like David Lynch or you know, the Midwest where everything is just up and sad. I guess citation needed, sorry to our listeners in the Midwest. You know, you get that like lounge fifties lounge vibe and like rayon shirts and and you know, vibraphone music instead of instead of like slasher stuff, Like I could never imagine Tim Burton doing a slasher even something like Sleepy Hollow, which is probably as close as he would ever actually get to that is so much more informed by like, uh, like a hammer horse exactly, Gothic hore, and that's the big thing that people. Yeah, he's probably I would. I mean, I don't think I've read interviews where he's talked about, but I wager this hammer sixties stuff was a big thing for him as well. People in frock coats.

00:51:42
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm thinking now about the aesthetics of like Edward Sissar Hands, the the pastel houses.

00:51:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, the just the California vibe. Yeah, it's Orange County by way of you know, Transylvania. So to find the fictional town of Winter River, Connecticut, in which Beetlejuice is set, early on in production, Tim Burton, production designer Bo Welch and line producer Richard Hashmoto went location scouting in Vermont, and, in bow Welch's words, they drove aimlessly from one end of Vermont to the other. Eventually we went into a couple of bookstores or gas stations and kept seeing this postcard over and over for this little town called East Corinth, Vermont. We saw at enough times where we thought, well, that one looks great. Art director Tim Duffield finished interior sets in Los Angeles and then flew to East Corinth to dress the town and construct the Maitland's home. The hardest part of all this was that they couldn't find a town that had a covered bridge, like your classic archetypal New England covered bridge thing, so they just built one and the weather did not cooperate. Duffield said, we kept having thunderstorms. We had to build a big dam to control the water level, and a thunderstorm would come by and blow it all away. But the town still has a lot of the stuff that we left there, just like filming in Uh, what was it Nambia or No Tunisia, Star Wars Jordan, Take Us Home.

00:53:09
Speaker 4: Welsh and Duffield.

00:53:10
Speaker 3: Also described their vision of the afterlife as quote the d m V. Through a German expressionist lens Uh, Welsh came up with the concept of the Johnson Wax Building in Oklahoma, which was designed by Frank Lloyd Wright.

00:53:24
Speaker 4: Uh. With these posts that were spread out at the top.

00:53:27
Speaker 2: They look like golf They look like golf tee built in They look like if this in this building, it just looks like they're they're they're you know, pillars that are skinny at the bottom and blossom at the top, and it just looks like the whole interior is supported by golf teas and.

00:53:42
Speaker 3: Those are all built in, but they're also extended by a matte painting. And I love how much you love ment painting. In describing special effects, and is that your favorite film special effect?

00:53:52
Speaker 2: It's either that or the smoke tank. I do love that. I love the smoke tank. The smoke tank looks bad once you start see what were we just talking about that Raiders Traders encounter. It's in it's the opening credits and the thing, right, I love a smoke tank.

00:54:11
Speaker 4: That's for why most of the dead are like, you know, kind of candy colored.

00:54:15
Speaker 3: Tim Burton one of them to look like neck A wafers from of the Pod. Neck A wafers made from my hometown Boston, Massachusetts, went out of business, stopped making them, and then somebody paid like five bucks and now they have the rights to make them, and they're like trying to rebuild the factory in Boston. There's a little place called Necho Lane, a truly discussed in.

00:54:37
Speaker 5: Candy Yes Delicious Chalk flavored Catechism wafers.

00:54:43
Speaker 4: Is it candy flavored chalk or chalk flavored candy?

00:54:46
Speaker 5: Yeah?

00:54:47
Speaker 2: Journal, which it's your Boston assid Yeah yeah.

00:54:51
Speaker 5: Uh.

00:54:52
Speaker 4: Fun fact.

00:54:52
Speaker 3: Welch's sculptures he created for Delia have proven so iconic that people have already stolen them off the set of the currently Shoot sequel.

00:55:00
Speaker 2: I tried and so hard to find an interview with him where he talks about what he was influenced by for those sculptures. I could not find it. Very bummed about it, but they are iconic for anyone who if you know you know Lydia deeds shouts.

00:55:18
Speaker 5: If you insist on scaring people, do it with your sculpture. So getting the mainitlans to their caseworker in the afterlife proved to be confusing. We just couldn't figure it out, uh, screenwriter Larry Wilson told The Independent. I kept coming up with more convoluted ways that they could escape the house, and Michael would just sit there and say, no, no, no. I finally got really mad and said, what do you want them to do? Drawn effing door. We just started laughing because that was perfect. And if you recall from the movie that's exactly what they do.

00:55:53
Speaker 2: Is that also what she does in pans Labyrinth.

00:55:56
Speaker 5: I think you're right, and it must be said in Wes's Wordswards the end of the movie, Tim told me we were shooting Vermont, you should ask Catherine out, And I said what he said, Yeah, you should ask her out. It didn't even occur to me that I was even supposed to talk to the actors, But since Tim told me to, I did, and then we dated and we're married and we're here today. So good on you, I know.

00:56:23
Speaker 2: If nothing else, Beetlejuice gave us the happy marriage of Catherine O'Hara and Bo Welch. I love that, but it's adorable as you meditate on that. We'll be right back with more too much information after these messages, Jordan, I know you've I know you want to do this.

00:56:54
Speaker 3: I've been waiting for this. Yes, Iigel's title of the section. Come mister Tallyman telling me banana. And that's because we're going to talk about one of my favorite people, Harry Belafonte. Where we Jude and I were just talking about Harry Belafonte earlier today.

00:57:07
Speaker 4: Oh yes, the clip on the Smothers Brothers.

00:57:10
Speaker 5: Yes, of the the beatings in Chicago in sixty eight famous, like not just as a singer, but as a civil rights icon, the same.

00:57:23
Speaker 3: Level of activism considering just how straight laced mainstream everything was back then. So also we learned, as we learned in our Weird of the World episode Architect of the We Are the World charity single. So I mean, you know, pound for Palm, and you really think about probably raised more money for charity than Geez, I mean anyone on the short list of celebrities, I'd have to say, So we take that belt off, take that bono, but we're going to investigate right now. The most iconic scene and Beetlejuice, in which the Maitland's turn a dinner party into a show's stopping possession jazz Hands thanks to Harry Belafonte's Dao the Banana Boat song.

00:58:07
Speaker 4: Can you can either one of you give us a give us a day?

00:58:14
Speaker 5: I'm sorry that was.

00:58:18
Speaker 2: Daylight, gom on muon. Just watching that come out of it, Just watching that come out of Catherine, her hair's face and her performance, like she deserves an Oscar for that scene alone, just the way that she's like shocked by it. It's a perfect scene.

00:58:41
Speaker 3: Now for the song itself, it dates back in nineteen fifty two. The Caribbean singer Edrick Connor recorded it first, calling it.

00:58:49
Speaker 2: Day da Light, day Light, Day da Light.

00:58:52
Speaker 3: But it's obviously a Harra Belafonte's song in the popular consciousness. So in nineteen eighty six, David Geffen, remember the producer behind this film that at least owns ran the studio that produced it, called Harry personally and explain the film to him. Belafonte later told Pitchfork in twenty eighteen, I never had a request like that before we talked briefly.

00:59:16
Speaker 4: I liked the idea of Beetlejuice. I liked him. No one said that about David Gafore I agreed to do it.

00:59:23
Speaker 3: What was particularly attractive was that he wanted to use my voice.

00:59:28
Speaker 5: I want, I desperately want a Yeah Dunes to be a fly on that wall.

00:59:36
Speaker 3: A man who has done nothing for charity as far as no, I don't, maybe he has. Bellefonte's songs are used all throughout Beetlejuice. During the opening scene, Alec Baldwin listens to Sweetheart from Venezuela and Truly thereafter dances to man Smart, Woman Smarter, before the real estate broker interrupts, and after the couple realized they're dead, plays faintly as Geena Davis flips through the handbook for the recently deceased, planting the song in viewers' heads. And then, of course, Manona Ryders celebrates acing a math test by having her ghost parents possessor so she can sing jump in the line Shake Senora, which is a song that Heigel requests that I play when I DJ his wedding two years ago, and.

01:00:20
Speaker 2: It killed and it killed. Yes. So the addition in the original script for that dinner party Possession There wasn't even supposed to be music. Screenwriter Larry Wilson told Pitchfork that when he and McDowell their concept for the dinner party seems that one of the guests spilled a glass of wine on a rug with a floral design, and then that the rug sprouted vines and wrapped up the guests, which is, you know, visually appealing, doesn't have quite the same verve. So the addition of the music is believed to have been the work of the punch up writer we mentioned earlier, Warren Scarren, but he did not envision it with Harry Belafonte. The dinner scene was supposed to feature the ink Spots nineteen thirty nine's hit If I Didn't Care, and as we mentioned earlier, Lydia was supposed to sing when a Man Loves a Woman at the end of the film.

01:01:05
Speaker 5: But uh is that? Sorry? Is that Inkspot's song? Is that the song that opens up the Shawshank redemption?

01:01:12
Speaker 2: Ooh great pool?

01:01:14
Speaker 4: You might be right if I did?

01:01:16
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, more than words could say if I would I feel this way?

01:01:25
Speaker 2: Jordan moving on, Yeah, you're right? Oh yeah, uh so Geffen exact. Marjorie Lewis, though, told the Ringer that these songs were prohibitively expensive. Every time somebody heard the words David Geffen, she said, they raised the price. Jeffrey Jones told Pitchfork that Catherine O'Hara was the person who suggested Calypso would bring more energy to the siege. Really is the MVP of this film. Bob Bodami, the film's music editor, told Pitchfork that Tim Burton worried about the scene a lot. He didn't think it was very funny, and obviously he needn't have worried the scene and the film success prompted a resurgence in Bellefonte's career. He told Pitchfork everywhere I went for about a year, I had kids all over me. Oh, the guy from Beetlejuice wiping their hands full of tomato, ketchup and mustard on my clothes. That is not a quote I made up. That is in the actual article. I have no idea why that is. His recollection of his career resurgence following Beetlejuice was children with their hands full of tomato, ketchup and mustard. But he did say because.

01:02:30
Speaker 5: I mean, if you know Bellefonte, he's always dressed.

01:02:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's always were playing hot dog festivals. But he said he enjoyed the whole excursion. And when Glenn Shaddick, who played atho otho Otho, died in twenty ten, they played Dio at his funeral. Burton ended up battling the studio over that scene. They wanted it cut, but as we mentioned Earli, they were also agitating for the name House Ghosts Speaking, which what the hell's going on with the title this film A thing that I did not pick up on until I was like a teenager. The fact that Beetlejuice is named after an actual star in the Orion constellation, the ninth brightest star in Earth's night sky, by the way, but his name is spelled completely differently. What's up with that? What's the deal with no not finishing.

01:03:28
Speaker 4: The way it's supposed to be spelled? Looks terrible?

01:03:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, way grabbier to be to be Beetlejuice.

01:03:33
Speaker 5: The you know, guys, I didn't realize it was a real place until weirdly recently, because I remember it being referenced in Hitch Yeah, and I thought that Douglas Satam's had made that up.

01:03:50
Speaker 4: Too, So it does sound like it would have been.

01:03:54
Speaker 2: Who wants to take Danny Elfman? I'm gonna cue up the video special mention must go out, of course, to Danny Elfman.

01:04:00
Speaker 5: The curiously ripped Danny Wright and his work scoring the film, So Danny Elfman said, I wrote music before I saw a rough cut of anything. He told he was talking to GQ. Actually this year, twenty twenty three, I had a little extra time and thought i'd get started. I read the script, I wrote a bunch of music and all got thrown away and as soon as I saw it, I was like, oh, this is not the movie I was imagining in my head. This is something else completely.

01:04:29
Speaker 6: It was a really deceptively hard score to play. I didn't realize it at the time, just the simplicity of bottom bottom bom bom b b buttm but really strict times, so half the brass section going up up, up offbeats like that, and there's a tendency to want to let it swing good da doo do do, don't say no no no no, and poor tuba player is like turning blue without a break, just like on and on and on and on and on. They tried to record it in Glenn like for a best of album. The conductor in England looked at the score and they started playing. He picked it up and he threw it on the floor and he said, this is unplayable, and it's like, I'm enjoying this.

01:05:20
Speaker 2: Danny Elfman's so annoying. Thank you, okay, I was. I was waiting for everyone to stop so I could make I love a lot. I mean, I love Night Member for Christmas so much, but I listened. I was somehow I ended up watching like three movies that he scored right in a row. I think I talked about this in a different episode, But he has so many ticks that he uses over and over again, and it's like, I mean, I think of that throwaway gag on Family Guy where they have him like it like cuts to him doing like in front of the symphony or whatever, and too he just goes.

01:05:55
Speaker 5: That's enough.

01:05:56
Speaker 2: Danny Elfman.

01:05:58
Speaker 5: Uh So. Elfman also said I didn't realize in hindsight how lucky I was that when we did these movies, nobody was paying attention to us. They were small enough budgets that we could do them, and nobody from the studio ever showed up saying can you play some of the music. There were no presentations. It was just Tim and I. It was really kind of like two kids in the kindergarten class and the teacher leaves and they're just like running their own class.

01:06:25
Speaker 2: Their friendship is really adorable. I just those two little weirdos found each other. Danny Elfman with his like closet of haunted Victorian dolls in his home studio.

01:06:36
Speaker 4: Maybe it just thirteen million.

01:06:37
Speaker 3: Beetlejuice went on to grow seventy five million in the US and spawned an animated series and a stage show at Universal Studios Theme Park. It also won the Academy Award for Best Makeup in nineteen eighty nine. So all worked out for that Moss.

01:06:53
Speaker 2: Driver Academy Award winning film Beetlejuice, and.

01:07:01
Speaker 3: It triumphed over some pretty heavy hitters, including Rick Baker's work for Coming to America.

01:07:06
Speaker 2: Which is you know where he's got, Eddie Murphy playing four got the four guys in the in the barber shop, and.

01:07:12
Speaker 5: Our Citia Hall playing multiple characters.

01:07:15
Speaker 4: Yeah.

01:07:15
Speaker 2: So the fact that Michael Keaton's Moss makeup one, I wasn't able to find out who did the prosthetics for the when they stretch their fate when she stretches her face into like the bird beak thing, because that's like one of the more indelible images in that movie for me.

01:07:30
Speaker 4: See, And this is a little stuff that I really as a kid just creepy.

01:07:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's like cartoony creepy again orchard Haunted House.

01:07:37
Speaker 5: Come on, ah, it is legitimately funny that Alec Baldwin literally pushes his hand through the back of his head to give him like like the chicken.

01:07:49
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, oh man, And I think all of that was just Tim Burton drawing, like just because that's one of the other things that Alec Baldwin was like. He was like, yeah, Tim didn't really give us any direction. He was just constantly sketching. I would just like look up from his sketchbook and be like, yeah, uh, just go back down and keep drawing.

01:08:07
Speaker 3: Following the success the Beetlejuice, Water Brothers greenlit Tim Burton's version of Batman, with Michael Keaton in the lead role in By nineteen ninety, there was also a public announcement of a sequel, beele Juice Goes Hole High In, with Michael Keaton, Monona Ryder, Jeffrey Jones, and Katherine O'Hara all agreeing to reprise their original roles. But then Warner Brothers, the same folks who wanted to rename it House Ghosts, offered Tim Burton total creative control on Batman returns.

01:08:35
Speaker 4: And so he and Keaton went off to do that instead.

01:08:38
Speaker 5: They chose wisely, and meanwhile in between we got Beetlejuice. The animated series, which one of the great loves of my life A not launched in nineteen eighty nine when I was eight years old and ran for four seasons. The show followed the wacky adventures of Beetlejuice and Lydia Deets, who are now on friendlier terms and voice different people. It was actually really well received, winning a Daytime Emmy that it shared with the New Adventures of Winnie the Pooh, and a few of its voice actors later went on to do voices in Fox's X Men cartoon, which also ruled Yes, Yes, Yes. Probably the craziest story that we could find about the animated series is that in nineteen ninety one, fourteen year old Sharon Chamberlain, who was a fan of Beatle Joos, had an idea for the animated series. Her first attempt to contact the company behind the show, which is called Nelvana That's Some Time, was unsuccessful, but she found contact information for Gevin Pictures and sent her proposal there. Gevin forded the idea, and Nelvana bought the pitch frum Her for two hundred and fifty dollars or about five hundred and sixty dollars in today's money. The episode Brides of Funkenstein, which I think is a p funk reference, aired as episode nine of season three, so thank you, Sharon Chamberlin for all of your footwork kind of ripped her off though, Yeah, yeah, but she lives on. She's getting that.

01:10:07
Speaker 2: Oh man, you know I was correct.

01:10:10
Speaker 4: It is p Funk.

01:10:11
Speaker 6: Uh.

01:10:12
Speaker 2: That was previous background singers for Sly and the Family Stone that George Clinton put together. And one of them, Lynn Mayby. I thought her name looked familiar.

01:10:22
Speaker 5: She is.

01:10:25
Speaker 2: One of the backing singers and stopped making sense. So there's yeah, her and Bernie Worel So there's I love that. I will forever love the fact that there's two members of p Funk and Stop making sense.

01:10:36
Speaker 5: That's delight.

01:10:38
Speaker 2: So Beetlejuice too is finally on the way.

01:10:42
Speaker 6: Uh.

01:10:43
Speaker 2: Production began in May, but with the SAG and w g A strike, who's to say how that's This thing was originally supposed to come out next year. I don't think that's gonna happen.

01:10:53
Speaker 4: Uh.

01:10:53
Speaker 2: It's been written by Seth Graham Smith, the author of Pride and Prejudice and Zombies and Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter. Remember when those were things.

01:11:05
Speaker 4: The likelihood of this not being terrible just what?

01:11:09
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, Graham Smith wrote the screenplay on the condition that Michael Keaton would return. Winona Ryders said to come back, and so is Tim Burton, and along with them Jenna Ortega newly minted Scream queen. Jenna Ortega, uh, you know, best known for Wednesday and her role in the Scream rebooted Scream franchise justin Throw for some reason, probably taking over the Alec Balbin role. Willem Dafoe, Monica Balucci has Beatlejuice's wife, and thankfully Catherine O'Hara reprising her role as Delia. No nobody can do it better and she's still killing it. It's not like she's retired or anything. She's can I just say.

01:11:51
Speaker 5: One of my biggest memories of the animated series is that the show would intercut these weird like come Pewter animated commercials, like from the Afterlife World, like about the show. One of them was Jean Lafitte's feet Streets for Happy Feats. There was like a whole jingle to go along with it. It was they were literally like like milk bones that your feet would eat it. I don't know what, I do not know why that has stuck in my memory, but that that's probably somebody's birthday or phone number that I cannot remember, but I do remember Jean Lafitte's feet streets for Happy Feats.

01:12:35
Speaker 2: That's so funny. Uh yeah, famous kind of on Google Bay. It is famous French privateer pirate. I think it's a bar named after him in New Orleans. This sequel is one of the craziest long awaited things to come out of Hollywood. Warren scarn And we mentioned was the co writer on the original film finished a script called Beetlejuice in Love that was actually mentioned in his obituary when he died. They were like, he's recently complete. He recently completed his final screenplay for Beetle Juice in Love. That treatment featured a composer who dies while proposing to his girlfriend, and then this guy meets Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice, however, immediately falls in love with his would be fiance and attempts to escape the afterlife to find her. But that is not even the most famous unproduced Beetlejuice sequel.

01:13:25
Speaker 5: So the much more notorious sequel, which we've mentioned once before here, Beetlejuice Goes Hawaiian, which sounds like it could have been an Elvis movie. Yeah, that worries me. The deesis traveled to Hawaii to open a resort designed by Otho. I'm liking this more and more with every word that I read, which, being built on the classic ancient burial ground, gets Beetlejuice involved when the spirits, awoken by the development, hire him to sabotage the resort. Is this a brady bunch like you're the Brady Bunch? Guy? Yeah, while they're okay, So while he's there, just while he's on vacation. Beatlejuice enters the surfing competition, attempts to marry Lydia again.

01:14:15
Speaker 4: Give it up.

01:14:16
Speaker 5: Guy takes part in a running gag where he goes incognito as an oil tycoon named Monty Exxon, but by the end of the film transforms into a wrathful creature named Jusifer.

01:14:29
Speaker 4: Also good, also.

01:14:31
Speaker 5: Summons dinosaurs and turns normal people into Neanderthals. That script went through a number of rewrites, as if we couldn't tell just by reading that short description, including at one point by Kevin Smith of clerks and mall rats and chasing anything. Some people have suggested that Burton pitched the whole thing as a Lark this. Honestly, this sounds a little bit like the.

01:14:58
Speaker 2: The Gladiator sequel Nick oh hell, except that sounds awesome and it's Travis Date. It never got made Jordan, if you're unfamiliar, he basically pitched a sequel where Maximus goes to the appell. He's like in hell and like has to like fight his way through Hell, and then I think it ends with him like he successfully escapes Hell and becomes like an immortal soldier. And it was going to end with this like long montage of him like fighting in every war, which just cool as hell.

01:15:30
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, that was not.

01:15:32
Speaker 3: It's like Lieutenant Dan and Forrest Gump on the show that all his ancestors had died in all every American More.

01:15:37
Speaker 2: Why do you get you to bring the vibe down like that? Yeah, it's really funny. Kevin Smith's like one degree of separation from Tim Burton because he was doing he was tapped at one point to write the script for Burton's Superman movie, and that is where the famous John Peters of a Star is born. Fame being obsessed with giant spiders comes from.

01:16:06
Speaker 5: Yeah, because it's that leads directly to exactly well, so.

01:16:11
Speaker 2: This all comes from like one of them, remembering Kevin Smith was doing like proto podcasts where he would just like show up at a lecture hall and just talk about his wacky misadventures in Hollywood. This story comes from one of these things where he talks about being in a room with with John Peters and he's working on the Superman script with that Nick Cage, when Nick Cage was starring and Tim Burt was going to direct and Peters was producing, and he was like, all right, I'll tell you what you gotta do. You gotta have Superman fight a giant spider at the end of the movie. And Kevin Smith was like, uh why and and Peters was like. Peters was like, well, they're the most deadly predator, like fur their size or he said something ridiculous like that. And that's and and then Smith is now talking to I think Warner Brothers or whatever studio is. He was like, yeah, yeah, I met with John Peters and it's kind of a weird meeting. And they go did he bring up the giant spider? And he was like, yeah, what's with that guy in Giant Spiders? And then so of course kept the button on this anecdote that Kevin Smith is telling is that years later he goes to see Wild Wild West, which is produced by John Peters, and sure enough they fight a giant spider at the end. That story gets funnier because in Licorice Pizza, the most recent PTA film, John Peters is played by Bradley Cooper and there's a line where he's talking to the kid played by Philip Seymour, Hoffman's son. He says, you know what, I like you. We're the same, We're both from the streets. That is apparently something John Peters said to Kevin Smith. So this Kevin Smith, Kevin Smith's like one interaction with John Peters has given us such a wealth of things. And that fucking Superman Nick Cage as Superman fighting Giant Spider made it into the Flash this year. Eilers. There's like a whole thing with like this multiverse bit in Flash and they go and show a bunch of different Superman. They show Christopher Fan Reeves, they show George Reid, and then they show Nick Cave, Nick Cave, Nick Cage fighting a giant spider. All done, cgo, It all looks it's an abomination, but there is a secret you know, Kevin Smith's Giant Spider story with John Peters is like one of the most influential or history bits in American cinema in the past thirty years. So to drink that in this I.

01:18:37
Speaker 5: Love this unified theory. Dude.

01:18:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, anyway, so this screenwriter Jonathan JEMs said at one point that he didn't actually know if Burton was being serious about any of this. He said, Tim just thought it would be funny to match the surfing backdrop of a beach movie with some sort of German expressionism because they're totally wrong together. But he got distracted by the Batman movies, and then I guess there was a protracted rights battle with Geff and scotched the sequel for the intervening two decades, because in twenty eleven, writers David Katzenberg and the aforementioned Seth Graham Smith were reported to be taking their shot at it, and then that draft was rewritten by a guy named Mike Vukadanovich. I don't know Mike of the Moscow Vuka Danovich's. A few years later, in twenty fifteen, Winona Ryder confirmed to Seth Myers that this movie was happening, although in her characteristically and adorably kind of daffy way, she didn't really seem like she should be talking about it. I think she was confused as to whether or not she could publicly talk about it. And of course it didn't happen in twenty fifteen, and then as recently in two nineteen, Timbert was doing press for Dumbo and somebody asked him about the Beetlejuice two thing, and he was like, I don't think that's ever gonna happen, but here we are.

01:20:01
Speaker 5: I just want to say, living in Atlanta, like I do, I have a bunch of friends who work sort of in the industry, several of whom did some work on Stranger things and got to work with one owned writer. And one of them said, very lovingly, when I asked, what is one owner writer like, he kind of threw his head back, looked at the ceiling, and said, oh, Wanona, she is such a sweet bird lost in the house.

01:20:34
Speaker 2: That stands.

01:20:36
Speaker 5: I think about that at least once a week.

01:20:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, Jordan, this takes us into your personal connection with the with the Beetlejuice musical.

01:20:44
Speaker 4: That is right.

01:20:45
Speaker 3: But we did get Beetlejuice the musical from director Alex Timbers and composer and lyricist Eddie Perfect and Anthony King, who co wrote the book My Friend's Husband. They started work on it in twenty sixteen and Alex Timbers probably best known for insanely lavish adaptation of Moulin Rouge on Broadway Around the Stage, I should say, which mored in Boston at the.

01:21:07
Speaker 4: Cost of twenty eight million dollars. I've seen it several times. It is really spectacular.

01:21:14
Speaker 3: When Beatle Juice the Musical opened in DC in twenty eighteen, it was at an insane cost of twenty one million, and do to the technology involved, the creators told The Washington Post that it could not have been done ten years ago. And any Perfect also composed a musical about King Kong, which is awesome, and apparently started writing songs for Beetlejuice as early as twenty fourteen, four full.

01:21:38
Speaker 4: Years before the show started production.

01:21:40
Speaker 2: I think he wrote some of the songs on spec which is insane. It was just like, who, here's some songs about Beetlejuice in case anyone wants to make a musical out of him. I don't know, just putting that out there.

01:21:54
Speaker 4: Yeah, anyone, anyone.

01:21:56
Speaker 3: The show opened in April twenty nineteen at the Winter Garden Theater on Broadway, but it was not an immediate hit with critics or fans at first. But one thing that drastically helped the show was a major moment on TikTok in late twenty nineteen.

01:22:11
Speaker 4: I had never even heard of TikTok.

01:22:13
Speaker 3: In late twenty nineteen, fans in particular, glomb onto the song say My Name Not I Imagine, the Destiny's Child song and began lip syncing and remixing it on mass, propelling it to the top of the social media Internet echo chamber.

01:22:28
Speaker 4: But despite this, it was announced that, due to the show's initial.

01:22:31
Speaker 3: Losses, Beetlejuice would be replaced by the Music Man, despite the fact that it earned eight Tony Award nominations, including Best Musical. A Save Beetlejuice hashtag trended on Twitter and there were multiple petitions launched, and then COVID nineteen shut down the whole of Broadway.

01:22:49
Speaker 2: Anyway, what did we learn?

01:22:51
Speaker 4: Iigel take us home.

01:22:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was nominated for one, two, three, four, five, six, eight. Tony's lost every single one.

01:23:03
Speaker 4: The show seems like a cat.

01:23:05
Speaker 2: I think it was just in San Francisco and I did not see it. It's played in soul. Uh yeah yeah yeah, yeah yeah.

01:23:17
Speaker 5: Yeah.

01:23:17
Speaker 2: And just like taking an annoying guy and making him even more annoying because now he has to sing all kinds of stuff, like taking Beetlejuice and making him into a theater guy, like a theater kid. That's awful. He's already like, what's what is what's the de evolution of a guy with stand up comic energy? It's a theater kid, an improv guy. Well, lastly, it truly is the gleeification of the cure. Yes, that's your SoundBite, just put that in. Lastly, when Netflix launched in nineteen ninety eight, the first DVD they ever mailed out was a copy of Beetlejuice.

01:23:55
Speaker 4: That's we should have loved that, but that's incredible. I love that.

01:23:59
Speaker 2: Well, thank you for listening. This has been too much information. With very special guest Michael Alder June all the way up from Atlanta. It's eleven o'clock for you guys. You've had a very busy day. And I talked a lot about John Peters wanting to put giant spiders in every movie.

01:24:17
Speaker 7: Thanks for taking the time, and also Tim Burton's mass Yeah, tim Burton's Tim Burton's Hog. If you want to tweet at us about this episode, please do so using the hashtag tim Burton's Hog.

01:24:32
Speaker 5: Tim Burton's pale Goth Hog.

01:24:37
Speaker 2: We'll catch you next time. Here on TBI, it's mo Mute July.

01:24:46
Speaker 3: Monies all the Time, now entering its sixth Proud Mom that joke.

01:24:54
Speaker 2: You guys got a farewell? Can I stop recording?

01:24:57
Speaker 5: Now? Look good?

01:25:05
Speaker 1: Too Much Information was a production of iHeartRadio.

01:25:08
Speaker 2: The show's executive producers are Noel Brown and Jordan Runtog.

01:25:11
Speaker 1: The show's supervising producer is Michael Alder June.

01:25:14
Speaker 2: The show was researched, written, and hosted by Jordan Runtog and Alex Heigel.

01:25:18
Speaker 1: With original music by Seth Applebaum and the Ghost Funk Orchestra. If you like what you heard, please subscribe.

01:25:24
Speaker 4: And leave us a review.

01:25:25
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