Beauty and the Beast (1991)

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Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start changing it with the bec Del cast. Dude, dude, du dude, dude Due. Once upon a time there was a podcast I'm bailing. I'm bailing on the bed. I'll keep going in this podcast, dude, dude Due. This podcast was really was really mean to a lot of movies. And one day a poor little movie walked into the podcasts Castle and the and the poor little person said, please don't hate my movie. I tried my best, do do do? Okay, okay, like this amazing when ball and orchestra can be anything? Where is this going? Okay? Sorry, so twenty one I'm crying. The podcast was like, get away from here, go away. Your movie sucks and we're not going to give it a chance. And can you, um, what's something about my beautiful music? No, that's amazing. Um So anyway, this movie, this little movie was like, please don't turn me away, Please give me a chance. In the podcast is like, no, I cary to make it quieter. Oh my god, I don't know what's happening anyway. So the moral of the story is that the podcast was really mean and it had to learn well, I don't know, didn't have to learn anything. What am you saying? Do do do do? Do? Do do? Get ready the next song starting do do Do Do Do? Do Do Do? Do We do? Little Podcast isn't quiet podcast? Every episode like the one people Good Self on the podcast Little Hosts waking up to bachtel cast backtel Castel movies. There goes the whole movies. I know every line of dialogue in this movie, Like it's so there's movies I could in a in a pinch, I could close my eyes and basically watch, you know, because you've just seen them so many times. I could probably do this with like movies like Beauty and the Beast and like obviously some d coms, just like movies that are just like whoop just there forever Yes same. This and a few other Disney Renaissance movies are that for me as well. This was one of the four main ones I watched on repeat as a kid. Bell was my favorite because she had brown hair and she could read, and I could relate with those things which I think we said Okay, So first of all, Hi, this is the Bechtel Cast. We'll be our podcast, be our podcast that doesn't make make sense. This is the Bechtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Darante, my name is Jamie Loftus, and this is our show where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechtel test merely as a jumping off point to initiate a larger conversation about representation in cinema. This is kind of a special episode for for us because we are redoing, revisiting, returning to four episodes throughout this year. We haven't really decided when, but we thought this would be a fun place to start. Yes, of episodes we did early in this series that we're like, we can do, we can do better. We just it's been and it's because it has nothing to do with anything other than that they are four year old episodes and there's just kind of more to say now. Yeah, they were all episodes that like among the first like ten episodes we ever recorded and released and believed or not. It was before we really knew what we were doing. So our guests are and were amazing, and then we were just like we we missed with the four movies, especially, we just missed things that seem very obvious to us now that we just van did not mention at the time. So we're redoing them. And Beauty and the Beast is our first episode that we are redoing throughout the year. Later in the year, it's gonna be What's Matt Max Fury Road The Matrix, which I will watch and people will leave me alone about people. Ever, well, people will also riot that you people. I mean, I will be a different person once I've actually seen The Matrix. Um, I will be red pilled. Uh and then uh, and then it's killed Bill. We're gonna redo our first episode ever So, but this is we're doing Beauty and the Beast to kick off the year. It's uh, it's a if not a fan favorite, a movie that everyone on the face of the planet has basically seen, I think so. And since we last covered it, there's been a really bad version of it. They came out almost four years ago at this point and made it was like that whole Okay, we're gonna be talking about kind of a Smartgese board of Beauty and the Beast adaptations. We're grounding it in the classic But um, I watched the two thousand seventeen one for the first time today and was just like, holy shit, a billion dollars can look like anything, you know, like how that movie made over a billion dollars? Wait? Did it? Yes? It made one point to Billiawn Dollard made so much money, and and then you're Emma Watson goes like she sounds like tea pain, like she's so auto tuned. You're like, what is going on? A billion dollars? And that's why I feel pretty firmly convinced. Once Disney did that, once bob Iger Boby Gare was like, oh, we can make a billion dollars off of that. I guess quality is not a problem. And and that's why all the reboots are just like bad because they don't have to be good because they made a billion dollars with with the worst one that I've seen. I haven't seen them all, but I've seen a couple of them and impauty of the pieces. So yeah, it's yeah in theaters. I saw it bravely. I saw in theaters I was contributing to the billion other people. I'm kidding. It doesn't caused a dollar to see a like a billion dollars. That's so many dollars, so many dollars um the Disney reap. I haven't seen the Dumbo one, nor the Cinderella one from I think or I haven't seen Maleficent either, but I've seen like a Laddin. Lion King is low key. I kind of liked. I have only seen the first Moleficent, but I was like, the first Moleficent was kind of fun. It was like diet wicked kind of. I have not seen the Cinderella one and won't. And I did see Tumbo. Wow, thank you. It was a mess. It was a disaster. It was so bad. I haven't seen most of them. I've seen. I have seen the Lion King. I've watched the new Mulan once the paywall was brought down. Oh right, I haven't seen that one either. It's fun, it's fine, it's but there's a lot of controversy around. I mean, that's a whole other we'll get to that one eventually. There's you know, there's it's okay. They're all essentially none of them are as good as the original, and they're all like generally like not very but the Beauty, but Beauty and the Beast was like about, like, holy sh it, what was what happened? Everything went wrong everything, and then they've made a billion dollar Like I just no one learned a damn thing. Well, you know what a damn thing. Something I need to be reminded of often is that nostalgia is a powerful emotion and people will make decisions strong enough. But I mean that explains I think that explains why a billion dollars was made. Yes, that's why a billion dollars worth of chances being taken. But like I can't imagine. I mean, I'm curious in the future when children who saw the reboot then process it later they're like that, what was that? What was that all about? It was so it was wow, Wow, I love Luke Evans. And then at the end, you know how like a we're gonna get to one, the good one. But the there there was that huge show made of like Lafo Josh Gad's character is going to be the first out gay character in all of Disney history, and then you're like, when is that going to become clear? And then it never does. But there's this shot at the end where like La food dances with a man we don't know for a second, and they're like, yeah, it had happened. It was it. Wow. I mean so many parts of the movie were a slap in the face, but that was that was a special one. That was a special slab one of many issues I can't And then I also like, when The Beast came to life, I don't know who I thought that actor was going to be. But I had this flash of rage where I was like, who the fuck is that there was at the end where the whole cast is supposed to all of a sudden be a very famous person at the end, Right, you've got Emma Thompson, You've got Audre McDonald, You've got you Greg, You've got McKellen mckellin, Stanley Stanley, oh my gosh, Stanley tu cheese and and then there and then like and here's the Beast, and you're like, who that? Who the funk is that? I don't know who even was that man. I couldn't tell you. A bunch of people are about to like swan dive into my mentions and be like, hey was in I didn't know who that man was. He wasn't famous enough to be in the movie. He wasn't famous enough. I can't. I don't know why I can't say famous today. He was not famous enough to be in the movie. And that interpretation of the Beast, it was horrible. He was so mean, he was so and he looked like shit. C in that movie was a zaster And oh my god, Bell's dress. I okay, wait, I have to pull up a tap because I looked up the costume designer for the movie, very like well regarded costume designer. Um, I will find what her name was. But it was the I think maybe the most I parti ist dress for Bell. Like her dress, I was like, I'm pretty sure I wore that in the like that exact dress in like the second grade, Like what is going on here? It was nominated for Best Costume Design and seeing at the Academy Awards a billion dollars, I don't even know what's going on. Absolutely Cosaster. Jacqueline Durant, very well regarded costume designer, has done some of the most iconic Like she did she did a tone that she said, some of the best costume designs of our lifetime, I'm sure, and then she went to I party. I just couldn't tell. You don't know. We don't m hmmm, did we? I don't think we've said what the Bechdel test was yet the Bedel test, I guess the beck Doel test. Do you want to say it or should? I don't know why I'm so mad about it. I'm fine. I'm happy to say it is. It's a mediametric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel that requires that two people of any marginalized gender have to have names, have to speak to each other, and they have to talk about something other than a man. Our standard is a two line exchange or more of dialogue. So that's a Becktel test, and then will determine if Beauting the Beast or other adaptations passes later on. The one definitely passes the Backdel test. But it's just a perfect example of what a flawed metric it is, because you can just be talking in the worst movie you've ever heard and it can pass the Backtel So, okay, we are talking about Caitlin, what is your history with Beauty and the Beast feature film? Like I said, I just want I watched this movie on repeat as a kid. It came out and when I was. I was like five when it came out and perfect. So I've basically was watching it since we got it on like VHS that year or in ninety two or whenever, um, and have been watching it ever since. UM. So yeah, So this is one of my favorite animated Disney movies, or at least it was at you know, the time. I have mixed feelings about it now, but I deal. There's still a lot that I that I appreciate about it, and I love, especially the score, which you so beautifully we're singing earlier. I mean it's like common Yes, Um, what's your history with it? I mean about the same. It came out before I was born, but I literally don't remember a life before this movie. I just it's It's always been the one. It was. Belle was my favor because she was not like the other girls because she could read a book. So yeah, I absolutely loved it. Watched it five trillion times, and as I get older and then I started bringing in animation. It's like some of the most beautiful animation ever. It's so like when I was in college, I think they released, um, like a remaster of it in theaters. Um, and I went to see it in theaters like in imax, and it's so beautiful and yeah, I just I I really, I really uh love this movie and a lot of levels. It's not I mean, it's so it's so mired in a lot of shit, but I think of the Disney um renaissance, it's not even close to like the worst disservice of a female character, which is not you know, speaking super complimentary. The bar is on the floor. But yeah, rewatching it for for this and then also kind of watching the various attempts to update it. Um, I think it holds up, you know, relatively wealth obviously. I mean it's there's been so much discourse about this movie that I don't even think I have any like new points to bring to the table. The problems with the story have been pretty well trodden, and we will trod it again. But I still love the movie. I so to prepare for this, I watched the two Disney versions. I love the original, hated the reboot, and then I also used to watch with my mom for some I don't know why. This was a Fourth of July tradition. Um On the fourth of July, my mom and I used to watch. There was a TV series on CBS that was called Beauty and the Beast and it starred Linda Hamilton's as the Bell character, but she's called Catherine and the show and she's a high powered assistant d a problematic and then the Beast is played by Ron Perlman in the most makeup You've ever seen in your entire life. But even Ron Pearlman on like VHS quality CBS TV show in looks better than the c G I Beast with like whatever ten is balls all over his head. But yeah, so I watched a few episodes of that to prepare as well, because I was like, well, let's find a midpoint and um, you know, the DC has a disaster. George R. R. Martin wrote on that show of his early credits, that's one of those things that I learned about and then immediately forget and then relearn like six months later, and then immediately forget and then relearn, And just like just because the second had appeared on screen, I was like, I've read that somewhere, even though I don't even care, But yeah, this show was was fun. The Beast lives in we know how It's like it's almost like us, like empty tunnels. The Beast lives in one of those tunnels. He lives in one of the US tunnels, and Linda Hamilton's goes down to one of the US tunnels and then they I don't know, I only watched the first three episodes, but it's like they agree in the pilot there like this can never be because you're a d A and I'm the Beast. Like it's so weird because she's like very eighties and he's still like the Beast and he lives in a subway tube. That's I mean, that sounds a bit like Phantom of the Opera. It's extremely Phantom of the Opera to the point where I'm like, why didn't they just do that? My my guess is Phantom of the Opera would have been a really popular Broadway show at this time, and they were like, how can we have Phantom of the Opera without paying for the rights to it? I see, that's my guests because this was like seven so pre Disney making a good version of this, so we're like, let's make a really bad version of it, and they did, Um, but I recommend it. I got CBS All Access for it, and I'm not to unsign up. Now I just have it, so now you haven't congratulations. Yeah, let me know if you want my password, if you want to want the Good Fight? Is that the one with Christine Baranski, because if I'll watch it? Hell yeah? Okay, well yeah, I mean my notes mostly focused on I have a little bit of like what the live action remake attempts to do to like update stuff, but most of my notes are on the animated version. Yeah. Yeah, no, let's let's talk about the version. Um that is fun to talk about. Yes, okay, let's take a quick break and then we will come back and get into the recap. And we're back. So we get some backstory about the beast. Oh my god, I'm gonna pass my pants off again, but just imagine right right, So we get some backstory about the beast. Um. He was horrible to this old beggar woman who shows up at his castle. She turns out to be a beautiful enchantress, so as punishment for him mistreating her, she turns him into a beast and places a spell on the entire castle, um which we will eventually learn that all of the occupants of the castle are turned into like enchanted objects. Household objects. Yeah, so she says, this enchantress, if you can get someone to fall in love with you, if you fall in love with someone and get someone to fall in love with you back by the time the last pedal fells on this enchanted rose, this spell will be broken and your beast curse will be lifted. Right. So that's the backstory, very specific curse she's casting. But I remember when I was very tiny. How in the Stained Glass introduction, the I guess which or recalling her which she's an a sorceress, an enchantress? Is what an enchantress? She's wearing this beautiful green dress that I was. I was like, Oh, I wish that you actually saw her. Um, like that. I just liked that dress to say, dude, that was not dude, it's a beautiful dress. Okay. Then we cut to Bell. She lives in a small French town with her father, Maurice, who is an inventor. She loves to read. She is very beautiful, and those are the two most important things about her. Really. Um, she is so hot that the guy who owns and operates a bookstore doesn't say anything when she treats the bookstore like it's a library. He never corrects her. He's never like you you have to pay for the books. So hot people can be very intimidating like that. That's why hot people are generally really rude and have no idea. They're just like walking around because everyone's like h then no one, no one ever tells them that, yeah she did, that is true. She treats the whole damn plays like a library. And then he's like, actually, you can keep the book for free, and like you're doubling down on not teaching this woman what a store is. Not only are you letting her borrow books that you are trying to sell for human money, you are giving them away now to this hot woman for free. So yeah, that's how hot she is, and that's how much she loves to read. I love. This is kind of like probably the as a as a child of our generation. Um, this is probably the first like not like the other Girl's song that really gets like nailed, you know, into your head over and over. Like if you're hot and you can read a book, guess what you're gonna be both very desired and you're gonna be very reviled, which is like, I don't know what message. What the message is the message? We don't know. But if you're hot and you can read, look out, people are gonna have strong takes one way or another. So that's Bells whole thing is she also um, she wants more than this provincial life in this small French town. She sings about that. And then there's also the French Chad Gaston. Yes, he wants to marry Bell because she is hot, but she has no interest in him because he's dripping with toxic masculinity. Gaston also has a little sidekick, Lafu. So um, Bell's father Maurice is working on this wood chopping invention to take to this fair uh and he sets off but gets lost along the way and happens upon this dark and scary castle, which is like, I think we talked about this the first time, but like didn't Does no one know about the castle? How long has the castle been there? Is the provincial town not aware that there's a gigantic castle? How long has the curse been going on? Because it seems like he's pretty young when the curses put on him and they're like you haven till your twenty one bird days, You're like, okay, Max a couple of years so did the monarchy fall a couple of years ago, but then everyone got like men in Black like forget Ray and they forget that there was We've talked about this before. Yeah, and this is one of the things that UM the live action remake attempts to address UM and I would recommend checking out. Lindsay Ellis does a really great video essay on this live action remake and a friend of the cast, Friend of the cast, and how a lot of the problems with it are the movie trying to like address fan criticism over the years. It's like, my thing is, like I don't even super object to like a remake trying to address fan criticism, but like almost every every way that this reboot chooses to address it is basically incoherent, Like right, there's a there's a one cent Tin's way to address that criticism that doesn't whatever. It's like a nod to the fact that, yes, the plot point doesn't super make sense, but it isn't like this whole like convoluted, Like every attempt to explain anything in their reboot, You're like, what are you talking about? It weakens the story for sure. On every occasion yeah, I feel like you can. You can nod to it without being like, oh, there's a whole like Pixar theory on your Like, it doesn't really matter. It's not that big a deal anyway. So Maurice shows up at this castle and this is where the Beast lives, and the Beast takes Maurice as his prisoner. And then also, as we mentioned earlier, the prince who is now the Beast, his servants have been turned into these enchanted objects. So we've got like, Lumier is a candlestick, cogs Were is a clock, Mrs Potts is a tea pot, her son Chip is a little teacup. And these are all characters that Maurice meets early on. They're all cute. They're cute. So back in town, guest On is trying to force Bell into a marriage. She's not having it. And then her horse shows back up without her dad, so she goes looking for Maurice and also ends up at the castle where she comes upon her father, comes upon the beast and offers to take her father's place as the Beast's prisoner, and the Beast is like, sounds good to me, here's yourself, And so like it would be so easy to just be like, do I need a prisoner? You know? But whatever I mean, we'll talk about. This is how the story goes. So Lumier, Cogsworth, et cetera see Bell being there as an opportunity for this spell to be lifted, and they basically try to orchestrate a romance between Bell and the beast basically right away. But the beast has an awful temper and he's yelling. He's like, never fucking go to the west wing of the castle. Here's a bedroom, but don't go to the west wing. Meanwhile, back in town, Guston is singing about how awesome he is, and then Maurice comes into the tavern. He's like, hey, there's this beast and he has taken Bell as prisoner, and everyone thinks that Maurice is delusional, and then Guston sees this as an opportunity to kind of use the possibility that Maurice could get locked up as leverage to try to get closer to marrying Bell, which is truly one of the most evil ideas in all of Disney Cannon. Yes, I feel like it's uh not discussed enough. What a truly base and evil idea it is. Yeah, He's like, I'm going to lock your father up, Bell unless you marry me. Sound good? That was his plan? Okay? And yeah, So back at the castle, Beast has demanded that Bell have dinner with him. She doesn't want to, and he screams at her and tells her to go ahead and starve. And then later that night, because this a lot of the recap so far has only taken has taken place over the course of a single day, which I always forget. It is a lot of things to happen in a day, and you have to keep in mind that when you take a step into the woods, it's immediately night, which people don't remember, but the second you're in the shade, it's actually night. And that's just kind of how the visual works. Yeah, it's very jarring, and I feel like, again just like one of the things that translates to live action a little weirder right in the animated In the animated version, I never I truly never noticed, but when you see it in live action, you're like, huh, it truly is just a Tuesday for for this town. So Beasts tells her to starve, but later that night she does come out of her room for some food, and this is when we get the br guest song. Beautiful, some of the most beautiful animation ever. So good, so pretty, Jerry Orbach, I'm iconic performance. It's just so good. What I should have said earlier was back dull cast, back to cast. That's way better than this. The seven minute tangent we went on at the beginning, I guess we have to let's start over. Welcome to the back Doel cast. My name is your guest is so beautiful. I've also remember now, I've also seen this the animated movie in l a before, because you know, in the before times where they used to show old Disney movies at El Capitan Theater. Oh yeah, I went to see Beauty and the Beast when I was um by myself. Wait, I think I remember this, Yeah, I think when you did after a battal cast recording ones because it's close to the studio. It was so nice. It's like when you get there, you're like, wow, this is a lot of families and I am a single adult. But it was really beautiful. And they bring Bell out at the beginning, and she throws from fetty at the audience. Wow, classic Bell and the kids love it. Um okay. So later that night, because it's still the same day, just Tuesday, it's just Tuesday, she sneaks into the West Wing where the Beast had told her not to go, and she comes upon the Rose and she almost touches it, but the Beast stops her and he flips out. This is another point in the in the U in the reboot, where there's way too much backstory that no one wanted. Where she goes to the West Wing and there she's like, oh, it's the story of the royal family and all the and there's like a whole family tree thing, and then you're like huh. And then the Beast is like, no, both of our moms are dead and that's why we're and it's like, it turns out I didn't want it. Turns out I didn't want it. I didn't care. I didn't care, And it's way easier. There's just an oil painting of a hot guy that she doesn't know as the Beast, an allegedly hot guy. I contend, I too contend. I also think that the Beast as a man looks exactly like Patrick Wilson does in phantom like dead Ringer. I think that was part of why I was so outraged at the end of the one. I'm like, they should have just I mean, he the age gap between Emma Watson and him would have been pretty large, but I was like, it should have just been they photo. What what can you do? I mean? Anyways, So, yes, she comes across the rose and the beast is. She freaks out. He's throwing furniture around, he being a very scary guy. Yes he is, and she is very frightened, understandably, and she runs out of the castle. She's like, I don't care what I said about agreeing to stay here. I'm leaving. And it's easy for her to do, which is it? And she does remember this because she does it again later. Yeah, the doors aren't even locked. Um. One of my things is why does she accept her fate so quickly? Why doesn't she try to escape sooner? You know, we can talk about that. I mean, it's like, I guess she is kind of like I guess I can just kind of go whenever because anytime she wants to leave, which is a few different times. Um, it's not a problem. Yes, the staff that not only is the beasts quote unquote staff very much on her side. There's not enough of them to stop and their their candles. What are they gonna do? What are they gonna do? Nothing? Nothing. If I was Bell, I would just be like, what are you gonna do? Truly? What if you fall asleep? I could just at any moment not be here anymore. But you know, what can you do? There's that big wardrobe maybe that would like fall over, try to fall over on her or something's like Bell's best friend. She's like, you're so beautiful and great and I love you, and she would never collapse on them. True, it would be funny if she tried. Um. So Bell leaves, but in the woods she gets attacked by wolves who we've already seen attack more use because apparently all the wolves in this you know land are somebody got to feed these wolves. They seem like they might have rabies. I don't know, but this is this is like super nitpicky, But it doesn't. It does make me a lot. It's winter in the woods. It's winter at night in the woods at all times, and but it's it's like fall. It's a different season nearby. It's not snowing. Another thing they like try to pass off as a joke and try to explain in the remake, which again, and it looks doesn't It looks so bad. It's also just like trust that your audience can suspend their disbelief for some stuff fun to notice. It's fun to notice, and I didn't need Emma Watson to do a Shakespearean monologue about it. But whatever. But I like winter in the woods and the coyotes are starving. They're so wolves and they try to kill Bell, but the Beast swoops in and saves the day. He gets ittten up by some of the wolves, and she has a moment where she's like, am I going to leave and escape for good or not? And she decides not. She decides to take the beast back to the castle, return with him as his prisoner, and kind of nurse him back to health. And this is when things start to change. Basically, he starts to become more caring and gentle than he was before. He shows her the castle's library and Bell loves it because Bell loves books. Then that's all kind of happens really fast. But then there's like, then there's this a romantic evening where they basically have a ball, but it's just the two of them and they both get dressed up. Be very uncomfortable in real life, but it's beautiful in the movie to have like it's did. Just imagine like being dressed up in this huge crinoline dress and then here the clink clink clink of forks um with you and someone who's sitting really couldn't be sitting further away from you. Um. We're like like yummy, um. But it is romantic the way it's presented, and it's so it's iconic. It's beautiful, and when they dance, it's the first, like one of the I think it is like the first computer generated animated shot ever featured in a feature film. It's beauty. Yes, yeah, it's nice. And this is also where we get the song pod as old at time. It's nice. It's Angela Landsberry. And then when Emma Thompson thinks that later, you're like, I love Emma Thompson, but it's not fair that she had to. You know, you're not going to do better than Angela Landsberry's Angela Landsberry. You know they shouldn't have tried, but they made a billion dollars, so they had to write. So they're having this romantic evening. They're having a nice time. But Bell is like, oh shucks, I miss my father, and the Beast is like, well, here, look at him in my magic mirror. And she sees in the mirror that Maurice, who has been out looking for Bell, is lost and alone and possibly dying. So she's like, hey, Beast, I need to leave, and he's like, okay, you can leave. You are no longer my prisoner. So she leaves the castle and finds Maurice, and then once they're back home, Gaston is like, oh shoot, like, if there's this beast out there, we have to we have to get rid of them. Gaston really as a villain, knows how to think on his feet, because he goes in with a game plan, and then he with a very evil game plan, which is too basically imprison Maury's with a cartoon character who terrified me as a child, the old man with the scraggly hair, terrifying, terrifying, terrifying person. So his plan is to basically throw Maurice away in exchange for Bell's hand in Mary. That's what he goes in thinking, and then he pivots and he's like, actually, we're going to commit a murder right now, which is like galaxy brain villain activity. I didn't this time. I this watch, I was like, Wow, he really thought in his feet there, and if he was on the right side of history, imagine what we could have accomplished with Gaston because he just like changed the plan so quickly and got everyone on his side. And I feel like one of my opinions that maybe has sort of changed between um, when we first did this episode and now is I feel like I vaguely remember being like, it's mean to the townspeople to say that they would just you know, turn, and they would be so gullible to have to turn like that. Um, I don't feel that way anymore because guess what, I've been alive for the past calendar year and that happens all the fucking time. So now I'm like, wow, that was hyper realistic. And I'm upset because especially because they are set up from the beginning as like being strong admirers of guests on they're like presentatives being just kind of like sheeple who will go along with whatever this like hunk Bully has to say, and so it um it turns out they were right. I was naive and this does happen. Um, It's basically just an anti mask riot going to you know, murder someone for no read These things happen, they happen. Yes, so yeah, Guston's like, come on, everyone, grab your pitchforks and let's go kill the beast, which is also a great song. And they attacked the castle, but the enchanted objects fight back, and Belle and Maurice, who are still locked up somewhere I think their basement or something. I don't know, Chip, who has stowed away when Bell left, help them escape. Bell goes back to the castle and then Guston is about to kill the beast. Uh, and there's an altercation there. Gaston stabs the beast, which would not be happening these days. We're not no longer would we have the main antagonist actively stabbing stabbing stabbing. But I do, I do, I do? Like the guest on um dies, Yeah, well he does the classic Disney simply kill that. Yeah, he falls into he falls into it in an infinity pit, but he goes flat And I kind of miss when the villain went splat. It made me miss nostalgic for when the villain used to go splat. I get why the villain no longer goes splat, and the villain you know, kind of learns, oh, I was wrong and I'm going to rehabilitate. But I kind of miss when they went splat. Does that not happen in the remake? I feel like he does to the remakes. The remakes all happen the same. I'm talking about like New Original Disney story where I feel like, more like maybe it's even like a Pixar thing, but more often than not, like you get like a Toy Story three thing where it's like, actually, the villain had a traumatic backstory and their villainous with context, and now they're going to start un learning the traumatic things that made them villains and they're gonna be nice, which is beautiful, but I kind of miss when they went splat. Sure, yeah, right, Okay, So Guston first shoots Beasts with the bow and arrow and then stabs him and like and then Beast is like kind of ready to give up because he thinks that Bell doesn't love him, but then Bell shows back up at the castle. He's like, wait a minute, Bell is back, Maybe she does love me so he kind of gets a second wind, and there's this whole altercation. Guest On falls off into the ravine. Um beausy. He goes splat. Beast is dying from the stab wound. But Bell is like, Beast, I love you, and that heels his artery. Yes, that undoes the internal bleeding that he is dying from, which is which is great for him, and the spell has been broken. The Beast turns back into a human prince. All the enchanted objects in the castle turned back into people, and they all live happily ever after. Sure we're not so why not that's the story. Let's take a quick break and come back to discuss. And we're back. Where should we start? I guess? I mean, do I just start baby talking about um Bell? Does that make sense? That makes so much sense to get a place as I need to start. Yeah, I mean I feel like this is like, uh, a discord as old as time, Jamie, thank you so much, Bell. I feel I mean this again, this is not a super compliment. The bar is low. I still feel like Bell is among at least foundationally, one of the stronger of the nineties disnease princesses. And how she's written we will get to I guess I'll just say what I like about her character at the top. I like that she is UM. I guess we don't necessarily know that she's intelligent. We really just know she can read. We don't know what her comprehension level is really UM, I think we're meant to. I think like her loving to read is code for it was like she's smart can be as interpreted as yes, she's very smart. I like that she is confident in that, and even when people give her shit about it, she is still out there reading. I appreciate that. I appreciate that her Unlike some you know, Disney family dynamics, her dad UM is very supportive of the fact that she loves to read. He is not actively trying to marry her off to some random person. When Bell says that she doesn't want to marry guests on, he respects that. So I generally like the dynamic that they have. It makes sense that this eccentric inventor would have a brainy daughter, and he does, and he appreciates that, and they appreciate each other. And I like that UM and I feel like Bell is uh put In, and I guess this is like an entryway to the rest of the conversation. But she's put in a series of pretty impossible situations and is making active decisions pretty frequently. Right, The situations she's being put in and the choices that she makes are certainly up for debate. But she is not like a sleeping beauty path passive character. She is making decisions actively throughout just the bummer that they were not better choices are options at her disposal and then related to that, I think is and this is part of a larger conversation to be had also, But the Beast spends a great deal of the movie mistreating her, and she does push back on it a lot of the time, which does which is good, which is good. So again, just kind of a more maybe passive character or a less thoughtfully written character would not have been characterized that way to challenge the Beast in a lot of his behavior. So I appreciated that that was like a nice thing as a young person to see, especially to see like a woman in a movie targeted word children to like challenge like a man being shitty. Yes, I especially, I mean we have talked to death, how imperfect nineties Third wave feminism is, and I feel like Belle is very solidly a part of that discussion, where it's like she is doing a lot, and she's speaking up more and she's pushing back, and she like values her intelligence and her outcome is more or less the same as it would be if she were not doing those things. So that's not ideal, um, but I you know, it is definitely. I feel like one of the things we lacked from our first pass at this discussion was the context of when this was coming out. And so when this was coming out, the last Disney princess you had to compare her against was Ariel, and so it's a step forward in that regard. I also don't know how much we talked about the screenwriter of this movie at the time. Um. Linda Wolverton, who has kind of um even since we last recorded, remained in this. I guess it's not I don't know what to call it. She's written Disney heroines for almost thirty years now, where she wrote Beauty and the Beast. She did work on a Labin, She was has a co writing credit on The Lion King. She did work on Mulan. She wrote the screenplays for the Tim Burton Alice in Wonderland, she wrote Maleficent, she wrote Alice through the Looking Glass, and she wrote the second Maleficent. So she's been in it for a bit writing. I think these pretty commercially successful commercial feminism characters. Yes, so you did. The Bell was very much a woman of her time and by her time, I mean. One of the big things that and I think this might be sort of me repeating myself from the first episode, and there will be a little bit of that, but well, no one can go back and check, so well, yeah, and then certainly I wouldn't, but I took issue with it, then I take issue with it now still that One of the big things that just strikes me about her character in general is she is characterized in the very beginning as her uh and this is so this is a pretty standard thing for a lot of protagonists of any story, where they are kind of equipped with a longing, a desire, something that they want, some sort of like empty void want Disney song, right, some some void in their life that in theory will be fulfilled by the end of the story, And a lot of times the story is about how they go about filling that void or whatever journey that they've gone on manages to fill that void. So Bill's song her want is, and she says it very explicitly in song form, I want much more than this provincial life. I want adventure in the great wide somewhere. So she's talking about I mean, well, maybe she should have been more specific when she said somewhere, um, but yes, yeah, she doesn't get what she wants right. So she's talking about wanting to venture out into the world and see what it has to offer, and rather than doing that, she ends up sacrificing her freedom, so her ability to do that for a man, her father, and then falls in love with a different man, the Beast by the end of the movie. So she doesn't get adventure in the great wide somewhere unless you count the confines of this castle the great wide somewhere, which it shouldn't be like. It's this is like one of the many ways that it becomes like. It's kind of an impossible not impossible. There's a way to update a very old story to make it to have it have the core message of the original and also have it feel very modern. I always go to like Cluelist for a really good example of like this is a Jane Austen story, but it doesn't feel like it at all, and and it feels very of the time it was released. I feel like Beauty and the Beast. Maybe it doesn't really retain those same qualities because the this is again just like for So for Forever, Disney and a lot of you know, heavily funded popular media does not take chances on original stories very often, so we get these old this is an old French story, and it follows all the beats of that story and then tries to insert all this modern sensibility into it. But the modern sensibility is kind of chafe with the story they're adapting. So it ends up like the modern things they're inserting into this movie don't really end up paying off in any meaningful way, because it still ends like it did in the seventeen hundreds or the eighteen hundreds, and so it's like it's not It ends up almost like making you feel a little more bummed out because because Bell doesn't get what she wants, and it's a very like progressive thing to say, like, oh, and she wants so much more, but that's unfortunately not how this story goes, and it's like, well, then why did you have what? Then maybe why did you ever say it? Then you know it? Or if if you want to write a movie about a young woman who kind of feels trapped in this kind of small town life and wants to venture out and like go off on an adventure, then don't adopt Beauty and the Beast story. Like the modern stuff shapes with the source material and then it never really I feel like it kind of fails to meet in the middle in a way that doesn't you know, that doesn't matter that much if you're like five years old, I'm watching the But as an adult you're like, oh, I mean, if we're even going from like the Disney formula of like the main character singing about what they want at the beginning of the movie, you know, at least Aerial technically gets what she wanted, which was to live above water, and she does get that by the end of the movie, Um, she accomplishes that goal. Bells Dulls song should have been about something different. She should have like sung about like I want to have a gigantic library because she gets that. Like if we if we need the story to end with her living in a castle, nearby. Then it's a bummer to have her dream be like really not that at all or even I mean, if she just wants like romantic love in her life and that's like the thing that she longs for and there's no suitable suitors in town, and even like just like someone who it would even work if it's like she wants to like a live in a place where she feels understood, or like where she feels like her interests are, like, it doesn't even need to be necessarily a romantical she can just be like, I want to feel understood by someone other than my weird dad. Like that's a relatable goal to be, Like, I feel misunderstood where I live. I want to live in a community where people respect where I'm coming from and they understand me regardless of the coordinates of where it is. But that's not that's just not her goal. She's just like, I want to live anywhere else, and then she doesn't, And it's a bummer, Um, but I don't. I mean, it's part of the I feel like part of the fun of talking about this movie is nitpicking it. But yeah, it is like that that is a really fundamental, like she doesn't get what she wanted, and that makes me I like to think they moved, you know, because all that this whole movie takes place over the course of a couple of days. Who knows what happens next week. I like to think of the Straight to V just stuff definitely not canon. They move, they move, even just the fact that she says I want adventure, and again like she doesn't unless you count being a prisoner. I guess, I mean, I guess getting held prisoner is it's a venture. I mean, that's a it's a it's a really shitty the adventure. The adventure. Um, I think a movie that obviously comes out much later but handles this way better is mo Wanna, because she has a very standard like I have this longing, this thing that I desire, and it's to be out on the sea. She also wants adventure in the great wide somewhere, which is the sea. And then that's what the entire movie is about, adventure. And then she finds a home within herself, and she does in his whole journey, and it's like and Bell, I mean, that's just especially where like Disney movies are at it this time, I feel like and I want. I mean, I would be so curious to hear what the writing process of this movie was like in terms of like what kind of notes would you be getting back in the late eighties early nineties when when Linda Wolverton was writing this thing. I'm sure it was messy as hell. Like I would be so curious of like what she tried to write in that didn't really get there and like where is the line? I guess because it's it's yeah, I mean, it's it's like movie the even even Disney movies have come you know, reasonably far um outside and again it's a kind of outside of their reboot sphere. Their original stories have come pretty far. But yeah, it's it's it's just weird. There's just a little bit of dissonance watching it back as an adult because it's just like the movie is ultimately not that invested in what Bell's goals are, not at all, and that that, yeah, brings me to a whole bel I have. But just to kind of go back to what you're just saying, there are let me count ten or leven ten somewhere around their story by credits for this movie. So there's a screenwriter who wrote the screenplay, but then there are additional like ten story by credits, and that doesn't always mean that like ten people worked equally on the story together. You know, some people get story by credits because they wrote like two lines of dialogue kind of like you know, just like weird things like that. The industry is weird sometimes. But um, it seems like there were a lot of people and a lot of just kind of like two many I mean, when too many, too many cooks in the kitchen. Yeah, but it's like this is how these Disney movies go where, Like it's so it's always so interesting to hear when someone is a little bit outside of that Disney machine and they speak more frankly about like these are the kind of notes I was getting. This is like what the conversations actually were, because like a story by credit could mean kind of anything, especially in animation, Like it's so vague what would constitute a story by credit. And there are there's there's one woman on this team. There's one woman on the story by team. And then the screenplay credit is also a woman, but that's not that's not proportionate, and it shows there's a man named Kelly. Oh yeah, okay, but yeah, it's it's weird. I mean, I feel like this is unfortunately we are still in the era of Disney movies with empty feminism. We're not We're not out of it. There's a few exceptions, but for the most part, we're still not out of the empty feminist capitalism movement. But but this, but a lot of the foundation is kind of being laid during the Disney renaissance of like we're going to give a nod to all the ladies out there, but guess what, honey, You're still going to marry the emotionally abusive guy at the end. And that's something I know that It's like again, it's like part of this is criticizing the source material. And ultimately it's like, if you don't want these story problems, don't adapt these old ask stories like centuries old. The best way to combat uh and like prejudice shit is not to adapt the oldest story you can possibly find. It's a great way to do it. But the same way where like with the with the relationship with Bell and the Beast, where there's a lot to talk about here and a lot of it is like kind of boring discussion. But I do feel like, ultimately, you know, the burden of forgiveness lays on Bell in a way that is not fair, like in a way that is expecting a lot. It is very And I don't think that he really you know, I think that the beast certainly demonstrates growth throughout the story. Sure would I would I, you know, were I in her shoes? Would I feel he has earned forgiveness? Maybe not for me, No, I think maybe he's you know, he's also he's been on this journey for two days, like let's let's see some more results. Um. Yeah. And and the but the burden of forgiveness very much laze on Bell or the story can't resolve exactly. And that brings me to a little segment I would like to call the expectations of women's expectations. But but but hit it is that a song from the movie or is that just your own song? Um? That was the Price is Right theme song? Okay, good, Okay. So I think that this is a thing that's true in real life, and I think it's reflected in media where when it comes to hetero romance, women tend to be expected to have low standards for men. Uh, in a bunch of different areas, areas like personality, emotional intelligence, emotional maturity, hygiene, et cetera amount of ship you will put up with before bailing, yes, And a lot of that comes from the boys will be boys mentality, where you know, all men are just gonna sunk up there. This is just how they are. They don't know how to be people, and we just have to forgive them, which plays very much into male redemption arcs. And this, to me, is a story that is largely about the beast getting to redeem himself. And you know there's other kind of thematic things happening, but that's a big part of the story. In the reboot, they managed to make it a story about fathers and sons, which I hated. Not any animated one is simply a man who needs redeeming, like needs redeeming, and then like being allowed and like everyone like giving him the space to be able to redeem himself. And I've stated in other episodes how I'm generally not thrilled with a lot of redemption like male redemption stories. And it's not also how low the bar is that you need to clear in order to warrant a redemption redemption, which is like, yeah, like stop holding a woman prisoner is a very low bar you have to clear for only a couple of hours before immediately being like, you know what I have, I'm back right, okay, bleak, And I want to be clear, it's not that I think that people and men in particular don't deserve second chances and shots at redemption. I'm not saying that. I think it's a very like case by case basis, you know, what did you do and and do you observe a shot at redemption is very generous a scenario by scenario, thank you so much. But so many cinematic stories are about male redemption because like, people are just conditioned to be way more tolerant of men's mistakes and just expect that men will make a bunch of mistakes and be perfectly willing to give them second chances. But on the flip side of that, which is this double standard of women just kind of being expected to be perfect from the start, we don't really tolerate a woman's redemption because we don't tolerate anything besides a woman being There shouldn't be a need for a woman's redemption, because a woman should have just like done everything right from the beginning, which and also the and also I feel like in these sorts of stories, specifically, women are not given enough narrative space to even make a mistake, Like they're mostly just cleaning up after the men that they are beholden to stuff for like, Bell gets into this whole situation because Maurice didn't turn his GPS on right like he he gets lost. She's cleaning up his she's rescuing him, which is good. She's rescuing him. That is an active decision. That's like, I don't dislike the Maurice Bell relationship. You know, it's like we've all cleaned up after a parent. But but it's like, you know, she doesn't really have the space to make a mistake because Gaston's coming at her from one end. Maurice is sucking up over here now the beast is holding her prisoner. When is she She's, yeah, she didn't have any space to to do and she hasn't no a woman, you know. So it's just nor is she written to be a character who would make a mistake, because she's basically written to be perfect, even though the the town thinks she's weird. But we are not meant to root for the townspeople. But yeah, it's like they hate her because she is the nineties ideal of what a woman is, which is right, completely hot, perfect, Western beauty standards ten and a genius. She's a hot genius and in eighteen something France, people are like, what's going on, But it's like that's, you know, whatever the cultural ideal is to be a hot genius. The townspeople are presented as you know, anyone. They're not they're not going to appreciate creativity or innovation or anything that's like new or different. You know. They are the type of people who know, and they're they're also they also fall victim to have just like animation stuff of like they're drawn to look poor and Bell is you know, of their class, but she's drawn to look not like them. Her her character design is something we've talked about, you know, to death, but like she's designed to be a woman, yeah, and not just human woman, but like Western beauty standards beautiful human woman. Yeah, Like she's drawn to look like an algorithm, you know, image of like the perfect is what she's drawn like, and everyone else is a literal cartoon because it's a cartoon. Yes. So, so Bell is, like we said, she's a genius. She's very smart, she's well read, she's beautiful. Her name is literally means beautiful. She's ambitious, even though she never gets to realize any of her ambitions. She's this like perfect character without any flaws, although I would argue that she is too forgiving of people who mistreat her um, but that's not that was considered a flaw exactly. Well that that's also not what the movie wants you to think. This is just what I think about it. They're like, oh, no, forgiving the Like I think that the movie is like, oh no, forgiving the Beast is what a beautiful genius would do. Like, I think that's where we're supposed to get. It's hard to get there these days, but like, I think that that's where you were supposed to get. Because so, I think this story would be way more interesting if Bell had a flaw and also had character growth and a character arc, much like the Beast does. But she is presented as someone who from the very start has the capacity to look beyond someone's external appearance and see beauty from within. Because this story wants to be about like, can someone possibly fall in love with a beast someone who's so hideous on the outside. But Belle is presented as someone who would always have the capacity to be able to do that. So there's no arc there, there's no She's just like flat from the start. Yeah, it's like she doesn't really change, Like she mostly is just kind of managing a lot of situations that want she's doing it all, but she basically remains the same person fundamentally because it's like she is because even when she's afraid of him, it makes sense that she would be afraid of him. He is threatening her with imprisoned with with Like it's never it's never that she Like I think that that's like another thing where I kind of get, like, what happened? What is what is happening here? With the like nineties sensibility being inserted into this centuries old story where a Belle really never never judges the beast for being other, you know, like she never really judges him for looking different than her. She really only gets upset with him when he's mean violence, Like, so I agree with that. So it's like it's she doesn't really have an art from being like I judged him based on his appearance too. Now I have learned that there's no way to live your life. But that's never a problem for her. She never judges him based on his appearance. She judges him strictly based on how he behaves towards her right and the whole curse that the Enchantress and cannot say this word Enchantress puts on the beast. The Prince at the beginning is like, oh, you're good luck finding someone who's going to love you because you're a beast now and it's all about, you know, finding beauty with his problem as he was an asshole, right, but yeah, what beauty within? This guy sucks. He's so mean an awful and he treats Bell if something like just to run through everything he does. On the first night alone, he imprisons her and takes away all of her freedom for the flimsiest reason imaginable. He demands that Bell joined him for dinner. He screams at her while doing this, He threatens her saying come out or I'll break down the door. He then tells her to starve. Then he invades her privacy by spying on her through the magic mirror. Later that night, after she's gone into the west wing, he screams at her again. He violently throws furniture around. Just his actions are very alarming and it's scary and to the point where she runs away for her dear life kind of thing. And and the whole thing is like, oh, he just needs to learn to control his temper, right, But it's I mean, it's like, yeah, but which is which is true? He does need to learn how to control this temperature. But that doesn't mean that whatever. The burden of forgiveness thing always bugs me in any story because it's like, if someone behaves horribly towards you, you are not obligated to forgive them like they hopefully they will work in themselves and not perpetuate that behavior to other people. But that doesn't mean that you have to personally be like I forgive you. That's not always guaranteed in the way that like, not everyone's going to be able to forgive that behavior. And that makes a lot of sense went others furtituate you. You know that is going to take more than two days to forgive. And that's the other thing too, is I always forget how little time is spent on screen in this movie, developing their romance because basically be sall for though so sometimes been like in the Twee thousands, Okay, this is like a super nippic In the they have a little snowball fight and it's kind of cute and you're like, Oh, they're starting to get along. That's nice. One he like throws a huge snowball at her head and like knocks her with intent to kill. Um, that doesn't happen. I had to go back to, Oh, he doesn't throw anything at her. No, it's in terms of snow it's her throwing a bunch of snowballs at him, and then he gets a snowball together, but then he doesn't throw it at her. He's like te heat because because he would hurt her, because he would do my killer. Because she throws a snowball at him and he has like the big one lifted over his head, but then it like falls onto his head also, so he just gets pelted with her snowballs his own snowballs. Yeah, it's very very fun and flirty. Um, it's a very already snowball fight. You know, like, has he really earned the snowball fight? I guess that that's certainly up for debate, but like it's not a violent, violent altercation. And Emma Wattson gets like like Kama Kazi with a snowball. It's yeah, she falls down and then he laughs about it. It's horrifying. Also in the I do think that the live action remake does attempt to draw out they're developing romance more, but they don't do it well because of that scary snowball fight and the beast just like neg spell a bunch. He's like, oh, you like Romeo and Juliet typical that you'd love that romantic drivels just all like it's not very sweet. Um. And then it doesn't help that the that the two actors have like no chemistry whatsoever, like the most chemistry I feel. And I am not a Josh Gad fan, as listeners know, I find him to be a very frustrating person. But I felt like Luke Evans and Josh Gad had the best chemistry between two actors in the entire movie because they were like, we can actually sing, so let's just hang out and have a good time. But no one else, I mean, my god, the yeah, like Emma Watson and that pile of tennis balls did not have They kept nagging her, did not have any chemistry. It just didn't. I you know, it's like I appreciate, but again it's like I think, watching these two right in a row, it's clear which one is superior. But even so, like seeing one sensibilities plugged into an old as story with the Disney formula didn't really logistically work if you think about it, and then seeing the same thing be attempted in doesn't work because now the values are even further apart than they were, you know, fifty years ago, and so it makes even less sense that they would end up together at the end. If we're going to make this with values, they would not end up together right the end. It's make a different movie. But they can't. They can't do that. They need a billion dollars literally so badly, so they have to do it. I also just wonder, so oh so, what I was saying is that so little screen time is spent in the ninety one version developing the romance, which just like he shows her a library and suddenly she's like he's not so bad, Like he was just screaming at you and nearly killing you. To be fair, Bell wants free books really bad. She's been conning her way into free books for a long time, and so this is actually a big opportunity for her. She could maybe like start flipping these books. They look antique, they look so if she's in it for the free books, oh my god boy, and she right, man, that's such a more interesting story to me. If she's like, yeah, I'll pretend to be in love with this guy and like make a life with him just so I can have access to these millions of books in his library. It seems like there's only one guy to get them from in her entire zip code. And she seems like, you know, it's a small shop. He never has any new books in. She's like, do you have anything new? And he's like no, and she's like, oh my god, Like so I see that, you know, based on the scarcity of of literary works in this area, maybe that's a reason to hang out. But but it's also like, I don't know, I just it's such a it's such a mess. This whole relationship is such as I really, I mean, I feel like the most and this is like addressed in a different Lindsay Hollis video. But the most popular criticism of the Bell Beast relationship is that she has Stockholm syndrome, which is just like just a fun little history lesson for everybody. That Stockholm syndrome is like whatever, it's I feel like the popular interpretation of it is it's like when you begin to feel empathy for someone who is your captor who is not treating you all. But it's like a false it's just kind of a false premise for any sort of like psychological reaction to a situation, because the whole thing of Stockholm syndrome was that there was a group of people who were taken hostage in a bank, and the reason that they began to empathize with their captors is because they were terrified of the police, who were probably going to kill them if they walked outside. So it kind of has like, really, there's a lot that's been written about it, but it has very little to do with like, oh, now I love my captor. My captor is amazing. It's like, no, I feel like my captor is less likely to kill me and has a less vested interest in killing me then a cop. So, um, it's not as far as I know, there's no cops in Bell's neighborhood, which is amazing, I mean, utopia, it's good. So so the whole Stockholm syndrome thing is just like a nonstarter in terms of any sort of meaningful discussion. I do I do think that it's like there's a pressure put on that character to really do some empathy gymnastics and forgiveness gymnastics in a way that doesn't really match up with the character that we've been introduced to. I mean, even though it's like she she clearly has a big capacity for empathy and understanding because she is a hot genius who is perfect um, but we're also told that the Beast doesn't really come into like what her goals are, and and we learned so early in the movie that it's really easy for her to get away from him if she wants to, um, right, And why wouldn't she want to because he's horribly mistreating her. Yeah, it's again just like the values of the stories are chafing with each other in a way that's kind of like, you know, if if you look, if you if you squint at it a little bit, you're like, oh, I guess that doesn't really make sense. It's yeah, what I feel like is I don't know, this is okay, here's my heart tick of the episode. Please. The ending of this movie really made me appreciate the ending of Shrek, because Shrek Shrek was going to come up today, you know, for Jeffrey Katzenberg. You text. I woke up to a text about Shrek from you. Oh can I read it? Yes? Please? I said, sorry, let me find it here. Also, I got my email today saying my Shrek three laundres on the way. Oh my good news at a sign I can't fun. We just text too much, it's too far back, but we simply have too healthier friendship. Wait where wait? Yes, you said, um, look all I'm saying as we should cover Shrek to this year, and are you wrong? Certainly not, certainly not. I'm actually very right. But the ending of Shrek right, So the So these are two katzenberg um masterpieces we're talking about, you know, our I p quilby all of that. I'm also seeing, as it relates to Jeffrey Katzenberg and Beauty and the Beast, that the reason there are so many story by credits on this movie is because of Jeffrey Katzenberg. He had the entire first draft of this movie, which was non musical, scrapped and we've written as a musical. So that is part of the reason why there's so many storybis is because there's just a ton of different versions of it. Um. But the ending where I feel like the ending of Shrek is a bit more impactful, and here's why, is because, um, Shrek at the end. First of all, we have like a lot of like beauty normative issues in this movie right where there's a very like rigid binary of like good equals Western beauty standards of whatever the movies year released into standards, um bad equals literally anything else, and this movie definitely subscribes to that kind of thing, I guess with the exception of guest On, but Shrek, you know, at the end, Fiona goes out of the Western beauty standards character and becomes a person or an ogre rather who she's more comfortable as and feels more fully herself. And that's the happy ending, as they are both like just feeling their truest selves and they don't care what anyone thinks. Whereas the way this movie ends and the way that men movies end is like the the Beast is designed to be this other character and it's like he's not even like they somehow managed to make the Beast kind of hot I stand by to this day. But you know, he's he's this other character and then he's a monster, right, and then at the end he's he looks like Patrick Wilson and Phantom of the Opera. He is, you know, a rich white guy with longish hair, and this is his quote unquote reward for two days of working on himself. And that's just like kind of a very that's a very like you know, simple hollow ending and just again kind of enforces that rigid beauty binary that exists in you know, everything to this day, but in this movie it's pretty egregious because it's a fairy tale where things tend to be very rigid, and it's also kind of validating that rigidity by inserted all this nineties mentality into it and kind of like validates it in a way that I feel like doesn't work super well. I agree. Yeah, Yeah, we could talk about Monster other ring characters all day long, and we've we've talked about it in in other episodes as well, But yeah, that I mean, that's I feel like one of the more egregious elements of movies like this. Again, I guess I would say with the exception of Gaston, who I guess is there to be like even if someone is you know, I think I think we're supposed to think, you know, Gaston, he's like at this man's man and he's you know, the masculine ideal, but it's very toxic and it's so I guess it kind of succeeds in the Gaston area, But then with the main with the movies two title characters, it's just kind of like fart noise for me, you know, right, because with Guston, he is the embodiment of toxic masculinity. And I appreciate that his toxic masculine, his fragile male ego, his misogyny are all vilified. Like these are traits that he is openly displaying and the movie is showing you, look how bad this is. And I feel like the modern elements and started into that are some of them more like more effective ones in this adaptation, like the way that Gaston, the way that we're told that Gaston is a bad guy, and also the ways that we understand why people think he's a good guy. I feel like it kind of. It's still pretty much works for me, right, except for this one little thing. So, like the movie is like beauties in the eye of the beholder. You have to see someone's interviewed to a woman unless you and you better beautiful the whole damn time. So the reason that Gaston is designed to be like traditionally classically handsome is that, like, even though all the other towns people kind of fall under his like, oh what a handsome popular, like you know, quarterback of the football team kind of guy, but we all love even though he's horribly toxic, Bell doesn't fall for that because she sees that he has no inner beauty. Right, But it makes me wonder why does she not put up with Gaston's mistreatment of you know, her and the other people around, but she she does tolerate it In the beast, I like that. I mean, my guess is that goes back to the fairytale logic of Again, it's like whatever these stories are, so it doesn't work when you stretch it out for an hour and a half. But my guests would be that the beast with this story logic the Beast does two or three things to indicate that he could possibly change down the line, whereas Gaston does zero things and he doubles down in his negative qualities. That would be my guess, But it's I mean, it's still like it's a very simplistic way of approaching it. But I'm pretty sure that that's the vibe they're trying to strike there, and I don't know they're also it's so and then and then we haven't even talked about the staff. That's another fun thing where it's like you would think, you would think and maybe we even said this in our first past at this episode, oh, I want to know more about the lives of the working class you know, servants working in this castle. But again, if you want that sort of examination and discussion, you really just it can't be this story because if you add in. I found the way that they attempted to mitigate that issue in and adaptation to be horrifying and pretty jarring and like kind of upsetting to have to watch, because you know, it's like again it's like, whatever, this is the story. The story does frame all of the you know, household objects that used to be servants as side characters and sidekicks, and there is something to be said about, like, well, you know, why are are we making anyone who is poor very much a side character, except for I guess technically Bell, who doesn't seem like she's extremely well off because her father hasn't invented anything yet, right, But in any case, like, I think that there is something to be said for kind of the way that people of different classes are stylized in the way their stories are treated. But then in the movie they try to give like Loomire and Cogsworth backstories, but then it just becomes like so sad, it becomes really really upsetting because you just are constantly thinking about how their lives are on the line based on whether Bell tolerates abuse or not. And that's just kind of Ten Miles of Bad Road narratively, where it's like, oh, this woman who we know does not you know, she said at the beginning of the movie she doesn't want to be here, but now if she doesn't stay here, the like people are gonna die. In thee when we're at the end, I was like, oh, where they like are They're all dying, Like they're like their faces are disappearing they're like turning to stone and you're like, this is not how I want Like, I guess I didn't want this. I guess I didn't want this. I want this, I didn't want it. It's really scary to look at and think about, and um and and again. It's by trying to address that, it puts more narrative pressure on Bell too theoretically act against her own interests of what she said she wanted, like, well, now she has to go back to the beast, whether he improves or not, or all of her friends are going to die. Like that's not a good vibe to bring into the chat. That's a huge sacrifice. Cartoons. She wasn't dealing with that little dark cloud over her head. That was really upsetting. At the end, I'm like, Emma Watson, you gotta get back there. Yeah, is dusting in that castle. You're gonna go save him. You're gonna let Audre McDonald die. I don't think, so go back to that pilot tennis ball. Stanley Tucci's keys aren't going to be able to play themselves. Any life is on the line here. Well, here's something I didn't pick up on in our first rendition of this episode that I find extremely troubling. No, some of the in fact, many of the lyrics to one of the best songs in the movie be Our Guest, are very fucked up because the lyrics are all about how the servants actually love being servants to the ruling class, and if they're not being servants to the ruling class, then their lives are actually pointless. And yes, I find that which is it's kind of like I was thinking for too. I just think that that's like a funny premise to try to update, because that would be kind of the cultural equivalent of like a barista thinking about like, if I'm not frothing up milk, I might as well be dead. Like that is kind of because it's like like they're they're working job, like no one is like if I can't froth milk, I wish to die. Like no one feels that way about their job. No one feels that way. What do we feel that way? Are we? Like if I can't pod, I might as well roll over and die. I do feel that way, Oh my god, my god. But like just I mean, I just also find it especially weird. I don't know when this story takes place in relation to the French Revolution, but like it's just so weird for this like French story to be like, yes, we the proletariat actually love serving the bourgeois class and if we can't do it, then we what are the lyrics? It's like life is so unnerving for a servant who's not serving, he's not whole without a soul to wait upon, like when especially when we know that like that that was an amazing point with like the especially in France in the eight hundreds. This is a weird vibe to be, you know, taking on. It's like, I mean, it's like having a bunch of people being like Jeff Bezos and he awesome, especially, but we know that their boss specifically is not nice to them, like really really mean to them, and we also it also is just like another I don't know the music and this movie is so beautiful, and it's also like some of Howard Ashman's like final work, and he's such an icon and this movie is dedicated to his memory because he I believe he passed away before it came out, and like he's just so amazing, and it feels like the lyrics from Howard Ashman and the screenplay are often in conflict because it's like Howard Ashman's lyrics say Bell wants more than this story says, actually, no, she doesn't. Lyrics say we love being members of the proletariat a fucking rocks, But the screenplay says that they really desperately want to be people again, so like they don't want to be dishes, which makes sense right, Like it's so there's a little bit of calm, I mean whatever, it's a kids movie, but there's definitely there's definitely conflict there. Yeah. Here's also something that we I think we talked we touched on this in the first episode, but um of the enchanted objects, the quote female objects a k a. The characters who are voiced by voice actors who are women, tend to be traditionally like feminine objects. For example, feather dust, yes, cleaning supplies, cooking supplies, women a wardrobe because women be trying on clothes, you know, not like telling time that's a man that's job. Yes, yeah, yeah, like traditionally feminine. And that was another thing that the reboots sucked at, where they're like, Okay, we gotta make Bell a feminist icon. How do we do this? And then I heard that this was Emma Watson's idea, and I laughed and laughed and laughed, um until I cried. The like in the movie, Bell is also an inventor, but she invents laundry things, and that was Emma Watson's idea. She's like wow. She was like out here in interviews being like I told them Bell's got to make a laundry machine. And I was like, okay, all right, if you insist they did it. Um, it was weird, but they did it. Um. Yeah. But yeah, the like equating female voices with traditionally like female caretaking tasks. Another thing about the br guest song, and this has always bugged me. But so Belle skips dinner with the bast because he is uh, he wants her to starve and die. But then she doesn't eat. She goes downstairs because she's hungry. A bunch of food gets made and brought out, but she never we never see her eat any of it, except for like getting just like little tiny tastes of stuff. Thank you of her a doggy bag. I just I hope. So, but like, why are movies so against letting us see women eat on screen? Okay, yeah, I do see that to the point where the same thing happens in remake and if they fade the black, like like does she have sex with the pudding? Like why are we fading the black? What is this? They kind of make it a joke like where she is very desperately trying to like grab food to eat, but that keeps like prancing away because it's like dishes who have personalities or whatever. I hate that damn movie. I'm just like, well, then do it, do it or don't do it. Don't be a cute with me. Let us see bell eat. That's my main issue with this movie. No, but we don't really. Yeah, I mean she she drinks soup later on, yeah the fu Yeah that's her first meal is three days later she drinks she finally gets to eat some porridge. So that's too bad. Yeah that but that the animation and that scene is so beautiful, so good. It's so good. It's such a fun movie. I just I love it. Um yeah, So I'm trying to think of what else we got here. Um yeah, I guess just going back into like we we've basically touched on this, but just the kind of inherent like I I felt almost like, uh, this is the wrong movie to equate it with, but the general energy of like a Revenge of the Nerds kind of redemption are going on with The Beast, where I feel like it's kind of pretty common in movies for a character that is treating a woman shitty at the beginning to um very intentionally say hey, if I do A B and C, like, I will have demonstrated enough growth to earn this woman and then I will have her and then she will be mine as my prize. Yeah, right, And I think that that is kind of how the Beasts storyline plays out, as he does one or two things to demonstrate growth, which is good, We're going in the right direction here, But then he's immediately quote unquote rewarded with the unconditional love of a woman whose forgiveness he has not necessarily earned, right, And I feel like that is like just kind of a thing that we see play out in real life over and over and over of like why did this thing? Why do you not? Why are you not my bride? It's like, know, that's just how like people who aren't assholes act like there isn't necessarily a prize in demonstrating personal growth. UM. Sometimes that is the prize is that you suck less. That's the prize is you're less of an asshole. Now you don't get something right, Beasts goes from being violent, abusive, scary too, just like being bare minimum decent. Like he nothing gets even established about why they might be compatible romantic partners. He just goes from being frightening to no longer being frightening. I feel like it's like we see like a little I I definitely see in the definitely not much of my own teen one, but the I see a capacity for growth. I don't think that he earns the love, the eternal love and trust of someone. Inside of a couple of days, it seems like he is on an arc towards being a better person, and in kind of more concrete ways, he's like having to challenge his own entitlement to people. And it's like, that's the message we're supposed to get when he quote unquote let's Bell go, even though she can technically whenever she wants whatever, um, when he lets her go, that's like an unselfish act that he does that we're supposed to be like, oh, okay, so he's behaving less entitled to access to people and access to people's time and attention, and like putting others someone's, someone else's interest before his own. That is as certainly a step, that's a step in the right direction. Great, sure, but yeah it's like but then immediately rewarding that one that one thing, um, but I mean in that that's not good, right? And I agree that he definitely demonstrates more capacity for growth than the other, the live action version and just in general. But even so, where's the compatibilit city between them, even if he grows and becomes a kind gentle person, what are they compatible about? Snowball snowballs? They both like throwing snowballs. They like to throw snowballs at each other, and they like to save each other from wolves, and thus is kind of and so I think if you can find someone like that, we really can't let him go. That's what I mean, a matchmate in heaven. I That's what really bothers me about a lot of romantic stories is that we've talked about this before. It's like, well, why do they like each other? Oh, because they're both hot and they're near each other. In this movie, it's one of them is hot and they're near each other, and well it's like even like yeah, and it's like and then they end up together because one is no longer being actively antagonistic, which is honestly more than we get in some movies, Like there are some romantic movies that end with one of the hot parties still being actively antagonistic to the other. True, but now it's cute because reasons. Um. Yeah, I just I think compatibility gets skipped over a lot, and I think that romantic movies need to pay more attention to it. Well yeah, and it's again, that's like another thing that makes sense in the context of the fairy tale, where like everyone is like marriage was not necessarily a love game, but when they're applying the nineties values of marriage is very much a love game. Um. In an individual choice, the end game of the story ceases to make sense. Um, which is why they just write and just let them write an original story. Then yeah, I just I feel like, especially as time goes on, not that Disney is ever going to stop cashing this check for a billion dollars, it's just whatever, Like mindful adaptation. It's not impossible to adapt an old story with contemporary values, but you can't just kind of copy pay them in where it suits you, Like, there has to be meaningful adaptation choices made, or any level of scrutiny is going to cause the whole thing to kind of fall apart. And yeah, like that's definitely an example of where it falls apart. Here is like if we're coming at this from the like you marry for love, not for survival, um this the ending to this story makes no sense because they're not compatible. In the fairy tale, that probably mattered less, but in the theoretically that should that did matter? I did. I don't know. The movie is really good, but it's a mess. Does it pass the victal test? I think we decided that it's like sort of between her and the wardrobe, right, that was that was? Yes? I think maybe they or her and Bell and Mrs Potts, but I think it was like sort of kind of maybe sometimes. I think it's one of those things where it's like, even if they have a two line exchange where a man does not get explicitly mentioned, I think the text of every conversation is still about preventing the beast from murdering me today. Yeah, so I think either the beast or like Maurice is the context of every conversation. Sure, so I would say, considering context, I would give it a knot. I'm gonna give it a not. The nineteen one does pass the Bechtel test, but it's maybe the weirdest TV show I've ever watched in my life, the Linda Hamilton's one. Yeah, Yeah, Thelenda Hamilton's one. You gotta watch it. I'll give you my CBS all access password. Um, and then you can watch Picard. But yeah, I would, I would. I would recommend watching an upisode of it because it's so eighties. And also Ron Perlman is like acting through the makeup, and I'm like, whoever the funk is in? Did you not watch Ron Perlman? He transcended the makeup, Jim Carrey transcends the Grinch makeup. Why can't you transcend the makeup? Whoever you are? It's just strange. So yeah, and then I think that the adaptation does pass the Bactel test, but it's still, um, sucks, so bad, so flawed. Metro movie. Also, The Thing Went does one of my least favorite tropes on movies that are like trying to be feminist but actually very much or not um where they're like, the patriarchy is one guy. Look at him, he's not nice. Like, it's just one guy who's mean, and it has not there's no systemic anything. It's just one guy. It's like, well, then kill that guy. If we're that easy, we would just kill that guy. To be perfectly honest, that guy would simply be killed. But that's not how you can throw him into a ravine. Yeah. Yeah, it's like, oh, Gaston and that guy are the only misogynists in France, Well let's get rid of them. Like, but that's just not how. But whatever, that's movie logic. I love Luke Evans where I've Evans, Mr Guston. He's great. He can sing, he can dance. After all, this this is France, it's true. He's also in Fast and Furious six, he was in ma He's in a lot of fun movies. Wow, I still have to see ma. Um he got a Sea. I'm looking through just to see if I have any funnel things. Um do me? I mean, it's almost hardly worth mentioning. But Bells mom is not lie. She's dead. And then in the movie they give context for it, and it's like why it doesn't have anything to do with anything. It doesn't go anywhere. It's and again it's just like copy paste adaptation brain of like, oh this was the problem, let's just paste in an explanation for it and people will be satisfied. It's like, no, you need to build it up from the bank. Like I don't even object to adding a storyline with a mother as a backstory for help, but you can't just be like, here it is, here's the worst song you've ever heard in your wife, So uh, like you can't just paste it and you need to like go back to like build the story from the ground up with that as an integral part of it. You can just add it at the end or it doesn't work. So I kind of like slightly object to like the whole like, oh, don't change anything when you're updating to the live adaptation. Of course, you know, change things, but you can't just like add it as a little flourish and like a wink and a nod at the end. It needs to actually have like a meaningful like if you whatever, it's just like basic writing, Like if you took it out of the story and nothing changes, then you need to go back and have it matter, like, yes, that's all, that's all it is. Yeah. Yeah. The live action remake does something kind of similar with clearly like Disney got the note, has been getting the note, Hey, maybe not have so many just only white people in your story. So they do seem to make an attempt to include some more diversity because there now are some black people in the town, there are some black actors voicing some of the enchanted objects, but it's the same kind of thing where the characters are pretty secondary or tertiary. They are not important, they're not among like the core cast. So I think my main takeaway from watching the ninety one and I feel like, even though the ninety one movie in terms of like quality is vastly superior, you kind of see like the same types of mistakes made in both where they just kind of like take an old story and then put like the Instagram filter lens of the year it's coming out on top of it without meaningfully building in those values into their rewrite of the story. And I think probably is even worse because it's like a rewrite of a rewrite and so it just gets even more like chaos. But it's yeah, it's just it's I don't know, there's such a dearth of like good adaptations that like consider the context of the time is being released into into it coming out, and it's like either adapt an old as story with and just do it and have it have you know, old values that kind of speak to no one and just do that, or you know, try try a little harder, a little harder. Yeah, the reveal that like Lafu is gay at the end because he dances for one second with a man, it's not that's like but that's like a perfect example of that, like the Instagram filter of like updated right, because we did these two things with like barely that's good enough, right, And it's like, no, Disney, it's not. It isn't it distant And it's not like there couldn't be a gay character meaningfully included in this story. There's like it's a broad enough story that there's a room to do that, like, but but they just didn't. So they just I mean, and that's I mean, I guess I'm just kind of like done expecting them at Disney adaptation, especially at Disney adaptation of a Disney adaptation, right, is going to do anything um super meaningful sometimes they do. Most of the time they don't. I don't go and expecting them that they will. That said, though, I would say that this ninety one version is is a good example of being a stepping stone movie almost that allows us to track specifically like disney Fairytale animated movie progress, where like Beauty and the Beast is more feminist than say, snow White, which came out several decades before Beauty and the Beast, but it is also like less feminist than something like Moana, which came out years after ninety one Beauty and the Beast, And even Moanna has things in it now that it's like, you know, I don't know if I would give Moanna five nipples if we covered it now instead of four years ago. I feel like it's with Dinny, It's always going to be a commerce game in a way that it is, like, even though it's sometimes frustrating to consume, I feel like it's an interesting historical yardstick because Disney is never not going to do what's going to make them like. They're always going to do what's going to make them the most money, and they're going to play to whatever they need to to cast the widest that they can to get the most people's money that they can, and so any movie that comes out is going to reflect that, and so they so become products of their time. And so it's like, you know, snow White is reflecting nineteen thirty or ninety seven values. You need the beasts reflecting values in the most commercial sense. Moanna is going to reflect values and the most commercial sense possible. They're never not going to do what's not going to make them the most billions of dollars. And then and it just sometimes it's going to be done in a good faith, beautiful artistic way, as I feel like it is in the movie at many times, at many moments. And then you're just going to get some real farts and boy, it's been two hours. Let's d do do do do do um? What would you rate this on our nipple scale, our scale of zero to five nipples based on how the movie fares looking at it from an intersectional feminist lens, um, I don't know one or one and a half. Yeah, I guess maybe maybe one. I mean I guess I would say it's weird because it's like I still I'm trying not to come in with a nostalgia opinion here. I guess I'll go one and half. I think that the issues with this movie are very much rooted in adaptation. I like Bell. I'm rooting for Bell. I think she is a very strongly motivated character whose agency is kind of pulled back and back and back as the movie goes on, and I want more for her. But it's like, I don't know, I feel like this Bell in particular. It's like people really clung to her for a reason, and which is that she like expressed such a universal sentiment of like wanting more in the world, And um, I don't know. Yeah, I guess I'm I'm kind of stuck on a one and a half. Where are you at? I'm prepared to give it even a little higher. I was going to come in with a two. Nice even if you know, does the movie deserve it? I'm not sure does the Beast deserve to be forgiven by bellserve Bell's I just I want, I like I just I'm always rooting about Also, I think it's worth mentioning that Bell is kind of the first Disney princess who is like definitively an adult, which is kind of nice. There's that that was like a discussion that comes up in Disney princess discourse as well. It's like, for the most part, um, Disney princesses are teenagers. Um it is. I don't know if it's ever explicitly stated in the movie, but I guess canonically Bell is an adult woman, which I feel it gives good. Yes, that is good, um to not be releasing movies where teenagers are getting married off in century that seems generally positive. So I appreciate that she is an adult woman making decisions in an impossible world. I just yeah, I guess I'll go one and a half this time. But I just I love her. I want more for her. I wish that this movie was couldn't make up its mind of where it wants to be. Like I like a lot of the I don't know, it just it clashes so much the the beauty binary rigidity comes. It doesn't hold up in certainly not in a feature length twentieth century format. Um. It made me miss Shrek. So take from that what you will. Um. And I was like thinking about Shrek so much. Um, And well, I mean we must ever forget Shreck, right, It's well, we will never forget Shrek. We're always thinking about where's the T shirt? Never forget Shrek. There's it's got to be we have, you know, I'm saying, are we have? You have to make it? You have to make it. Oh my god, what I'm saying. I've done enough Shrek. I've done enough Shrek art in this lifetime. Um. But yeah, I I guess. I it's almost frustrating that we have kind of a Rarety and Disney cannon where we have a strong, lee motivated female character who is intelligent and knows her values at the core of the story. We're normally we kind of don't have that. We kind of have like a young woman who has an idea of what she wants, but like it's it's usually connected to romantic love. That's not bellt goal. She has goals beyond that. But then she gets the same endgame as anyone else would. So I feel like she's just kind of cheated out of the ending that you would want for her. I love her, And this movie is so beautiful and iconic in its way, you know, shout out to absolute legend Howard Ashman Forever. Yeah, I guess And and then but but it's like the dynamics of the Bell Beast relationship are never gonna sit well with me. I am all for a story about forgiveness. I think that that, especially now, could be like a really impactful narrative to present, But this just kind of isn't the one where you feel like someone has really earned it by the end of the story. Yes, so yeah, yeah, yeah, one and a half. Oh go everything you said, And that as much as I like Bell, I wish she had been characterized a little bit differently, just in that she could have been given an area of growth or like potential growth that we I would have liked to have seen, so that it's there's not so much of a burden on her to just like except mediocrity all around her and like not even me, like verbal abuse and like the beast throwing furniture around all like she just tolerates so much. And I like you said that that dynamic even if he stops being abusive, like that's not enough to warrant a romance, a like loving relationship, right, there's even a way to like if they need that, I don't know, like even if they need Belle and the Beast to end up together at the end, there's a way to say, like and now they're on a path towards forgiveness, versus like and now I am married to you, and we are married today and I love you forever. Like there's a there if they're going with these nineties values, maybe you know, ended by having it seemed like and things might actually work out here. I guess we'll see she's gonna because I feel like it's it's a satisfying enough arc to have her give him a second chance. Period. He hasn't even really earned a second chance, much less eternal love, you know, but it's like a second chance would at least be a more palatable end game than right, especially like it's the whole you know, the fairy tale. Like it's like, well, what do you expect. It's a fairy tale. This is how fairy tales are you you fall in love and you live happily ever after, and you don't have to see that they're compatible. They're just they're near each other, so they're in love. But it's like, well, yeah, but when you're adapting a fairy tale in the late twentieth century and then again in the early twenty one century, like our cultural values have progressed a little bit beyond you know, uh, fairy tale values. So it can't have it. You just can't have it always. But they're never going to stop. But again, it's like I guess they can't because they have a billion dollars show that they showed us in another I bet in another like thirty years, they're going to re adapt it, and it's just gonna be a cycle of shitty adaptation after shifty adaptation. I do love this movie, Um, I know I love it, So I like the nine one one in spite of all the flaws we've been talking about for two hours, is a perfect movie. So I don't make the rules. Just is what it is. Yeah, I'll stick with my too, even though I think I'm being a little too generous. Two nips, I love it. I'm giving them. I'm giving them to I'm giving one to Bell. I'm giving want half a nip to one of those hungry wolves. So we're trying to just fed those wolves and feed that wolf. Happen nipple. I'm gonna give both of my nipples to Stanley Tucci in the live action remake. I love it. There you go, Stanley, There you go. Family, hope you're happy. Happy now, Stanley, all right, well there we there you go. So we did it. We've reckoned with our past and fully a more nuanced conversation than we had. You'll never know. So yeah, welcome to We have a bunch of exciting episodes planned and thanks for being here. You can always follow us on line. You can follow us at batl Cast on Twitter or Instagram. Follow your heart can also uh. You can also sign up for our Patreon aka Matreon, where each and every month you can get two additional bonus episodes for a mere five additional dollars out of your life. And you can check out our merch store at t public dot com slash the effectel Cast, where you know there is a noticeable absence of Shrek merch, but Wow literally bullied into making Shrek merch. You're gonna regret. You're gonna rue the day that I post my Shrek lingerie to our Instagram without warning. I very talk. I won't the day I will. You will rule the day. I love it? Um anyway, Yeah, you can find us there, and you know what, give us a little rate and review on iTunes. Why don't you? Hey, hey, couldn't hurt. Could It won't hurt you a bit. It won't hurt, It'll make you feel good. And um on that note, do do do do do Do Do Do Do Do Do do do do do by do by bye,