Episode 1: Being Wrong Act Two - Food Wars

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Act Two

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Food Wars.

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The second one, which does somewhat

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relate to what we did in Puppy Culture, is

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feeding weaning.

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And, you know, I didn't

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go heavy into animal husbandry
like actual weaning

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practices in Puppy Culture
but I, you know, I put in what we do

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and we always started a certain way
and it was always

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it was never on to anything
but meat, right?

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Milk and then venison.

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And even with our dogs,
we really don't give them carbohydrates.

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We didn't at all because we feed raw.

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But, you know,

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I'm always looking at studies of gut biome

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and feeding practices.

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Now, let me just take a step back
and say gut biome.

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So your intestinal flora, what lives
in your intestines, in your gut?

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It's like this is unique to you
as a fingerprint.

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In fact, in some

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places they're

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starting to use gut biome, in forensics,
in criminal forensics.

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They can actually

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use it to identify people like.

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Like a DNA.

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Hmm. Yeah.

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It's fascinating.

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And your gut biome

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is determined to some extent prenatally,

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but also there's a socialization window,
so to speak, for your gut biome.

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So it's right in the beginning of life
for humans and for for dogs.

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So the more diversity you get

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in the beginning of life in your gut
biome, the healthier you'll be.

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That is well-established
that the more diverse your gut biome

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is, the healthier you are.

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So our goal as breeders
when we're weaning is always to get

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as much diversity and balancing,
you know, not making the puppy sick.

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So, you know,
you just have to add one thing at a time.

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We try and do something new every day

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and get as diverse
a gut biome going as possible.

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Well,

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I was reading a very good study

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on a comparison of gut biome

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between kibble fed dogs and raw fed dogs.

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They gave a chart,
a scatterplot chart of the gut biome.

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What was in the gut
biome of the the raw versus kibble fed.

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And predictably,
the raw fed dogs had tremendously more

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in diversity in their gut biome
than the Kibble fed dogs.

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The Kibble fed dogs only had a few dots
on the on the scatterplot chart,

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whereas the raw fed dogs
had a tremendous amount.

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But here's the important thing
that I learned

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when I looked at that chart.

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Although the Kibble fed
dogs had a very non-diverse gut biome,

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there were some dots,
you know, some things

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that they had in their gut biome
that the raw fed dogs did not have.

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So to

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truly diversify as much as possible,
what this says to me,

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adding a little carbohydrates, you know,

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I mean, probably is a good idea.

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How do you come up with carbohydrates
is that equal to kibble?

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Yeah.

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And one said, well,
because that's what we don't put in raw.

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We have no we were no carbohydrates
except what you find in vegetables.

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Do they not make a kibble based food
that has no carbohydrates.

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And no, there's no such thing?

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Yeah, well, I mean, there are the raw nibs
that are it's just freeze dried raw.

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You can get freeze dried raw.

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But the definition kind of of kibble
is it's something that's extruded with a,

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you know, some kind of

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medium, like a
a wheat or a corn or a potato or something

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or some, some they

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do have grain free,
but it's legumes, peas, things like that.

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So is that what made this study
interesting?

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I mean, is this why the study was done
and why it was published or were

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what was the reason they did the study?

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Well, they wanted to know.

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And, you know, and it was a great study

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because as far as I could tell,
it was pretty straightforward.

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I mean,
they did not overstate their findings.

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They just said there's a difference.

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They didn't say
which is better or whatever.

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They said, you know,
there's a difference between the gut

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biome profile of a kibble fed versus
a raw fed dog is different now.

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As a breeder,
I look at it and I look at that

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that scatterplot a lot
and I say different.

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But look, there are some things
I'm not getting into my dogs with this.

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So where's the wrong in this?

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I was wrong because I just thought,
you know, carbohydrates are bad for dogs.

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They just don't need carbohydrates.

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That from tribal knowledge.

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Right.

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Well, it's it's the raw food tribe.

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Yeah. It's that's the raw food tribe.

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Well, you're going to stir up
a whole hornet's nest now, aren't you?

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Well,

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I mean, the thing is, for me,
that wasn't a listen,

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the the intrauterine growth

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restriction one was more difficult
because I had a strong story

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about bull terriers
and type and heads, bull terriers heads.

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I didn't you know,
I really don't have a dog in the fight

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when it comes to what you feed your dogs.

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You know, I'm not one of those people,
so I have no problem.

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I mean, what I do have a dog in
the fight about is diversity in gut biome.

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I do really believe that that's important.

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So, you know, if I had been an ideologue

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about feeding raw, which people, you know,
they're very funny about food.

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They're very funny about food. I’m not.

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I get it. I mean, I understand why. Why?

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Well, it's perceived health.

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I mean, it's doing the best
you can for a living thing, so.

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Right.

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And and you're judgmental
if you don't, right?

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Well, I mean, if you're going to follow
along on those forums

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and be a part of that, I you know,
you are going to be a believer in that.

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You're going to support that.

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You're going to look
for the positive aspects of it.

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None of us are looking as scientists do,

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with a clear mind
to find fault in anything.

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But yes, that's
what this podcast is all about.

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Oh, I know.

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I'm hoping to encourage people to do that,
and it is painfully difficult.

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It's an incredible emotional experience.

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Right?

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Well, you had this whole construct
of yourself as this person

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who was right, and now you have to rethink
everything about that.

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You know, you did that. You're wrong.

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But what I'm saying is
if you have the more scientific mind,

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you know, you don't have that construct
of right and wrong.

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You have that construct

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of being a life student
and always learning and being open to it.

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Well, it becomes easier.

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I'm assuming that question number three
is going to give us all the answers.

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You give us the path here on
how to not feel that way.

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No, no, that's not fair.

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It's a process. It's one of these movies.

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It ends in just total, despair.

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And so how this is going to end?

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Well, I hope gosh, I hope
you don't feel despair from this because,

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you know, listen,

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when I say wrong,

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it feels, you know,
wrong, like, oh, I've had to,

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you know, I've changed the way I feel
about eating carbohydrates.

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Like I made this movie
and I didn't give the puppies oatmeal,

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and now I do give them resistant
starch and, you know, I do these things

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small amounts, but still I've added it
to into my program.

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And, you know, it's not like
the other way was bad.

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It wasn't like, oh, you know,
I've completely switched now to weaning on

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to only kibble, you know, that, that
I've decided that that is the way to go.

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I mean which, who knows,
someday I may decide that's the way to go.

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But you know, this is about learning
and it's about being better.

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And and it is also

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in a big

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way about building a community
and how wonderful

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the community around Puppy Culture
is because it's this

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these people that are
have we've built into this community

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contribute incredibly every day
in that discussion group.

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I mean, it's just crazy how much we all
learn every day about the differences.

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And, you know,
when you create a truly safe

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space for people and really, truly

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do not tolerate
any oblique criticism of anybody

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and keep everything
above board and safe, it's

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amazing the dividends.

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What so people what what makes it say
people can be wrong when they ask

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a question.

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They're free
to not be asked to be judged by that.

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Well, first of all, like, if somebody puts
up a picture of a puppy and,

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you know,

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somebody asks a question, somebody says,

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well, what I say you took off dew claws.

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I don't take off dew claws
it hurts their tendons.

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It's like, dude, no, you're out, you know,
nobody asked you.

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The person was asking about
what kind of litter should I use?

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You know what people
this is what people do.

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I mean, and then, you know, unfortunately,
those people come and they kind of sit

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like a big hand on top of it
and just ruin it for everyone else.

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And, you know,
we just don't tolerate that.

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We don't, you know,
and that will be another conversation.

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But we don't tolerate anybody
who doesn't like certain breeds or breed

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types or mixes or breeds or,
you know, whatever else they don't like

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you know, as long

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as it's not antithetical to Puppy Culture,

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like, you know, we're not going to people
out there saying, oh, you know, shock

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collars are okay. No, we don't.

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You know, that's just not part of our
our ethos. But,

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you know, we've just created
a great community with that.