Victoria Lenormand: Cacao, Crystals, and Courage: Unconventional Autism Support

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world one story at a time. Hi, I'm Tony Mantur.
Welcome to Why Not Me? Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide.
Joining us today is Victoria Lenormand. She's a former police
officer turned strategic intervention coach, energy worker, and fierce advocate
for neurodivergent families and authentic education reform. From navigating her
son's autism diagnosis to building a holistic coaching practice rooted
in human design, Cakyle medicine, and compassion, Victoria embodies what
it means to rewrite the rules and reclaim your voice.
She has a wealth of information and which is real
happy to have her join us today. So before we
dived into our episode, we'll be back with an uninterrupted
show right after a word from our sponsors. Thanks for
coming on.
And thank you for having me. I appreciate that, I
really do.
Oh it's my pleasure. So if you would give us
a little background on what you do.
So I started life as a career police officer in
the South of England, moved with my family to small
island called Guernsey in the Channel Islands, and had my
second son while I was there, and he was diagnosed
with autism, which kind of made things really tricky in
my work space and in his education space. And although
we were doing everything we could to try and tick
an awful lot of boxes about what was going to
be required for him to be in school, it was
an impossible situation. I didn't really understand how impossible that
situation was until it impacted us. It was impossible to
work and impossible for him to be at school, and
just the word impossible seemed to be very, very prevalent
for about three years of everything was impossible and he
was going to require a lot of work and a
lot of changes, and it started to eat away at
me just just a little bit.
That's very understand animal. When a mother first finds out
that our child's artistic, it's the big unknown. So with
that said, what were your next steps next?
Was? Well, firstly the heartbreak of understanding that I felt
life was kind of tough enough and why did my
child need this additional challenge as well? Then under the
microscope for what I did as a mother, either in
pregnancy or before or something to of course this is
there's an awful lot guilt, awful lot of guilt, and
I do think that is just the way that the
system speaks to parents of children with autism, possibly trying
to establish what's causing it themselves, but it comes across
as a you've done something wrong because this child is
not conforming. That scene kind of continues. The child is
not performing because you're not a good parent.
Yes, but we know now that that simply is not true.
Only when we bottom out that you're an okay parent
do we start to consider that maybe there's some neurodivergence
at play here or something else. I'll never forget going
to the nursery with him and finding him unwelcome in nursery.
That was quite shocking to me that we could give
up on a child quite that, And it was it
was really quite shocking because he'd he'd eaten a Lego
brick and they felt that Lego city maybe being built
in his stomach. And I needed to get him henceforth
to A and E and have him examined. So in
A and E I'm talking to a doctor who's saying, well,
you won't be feeding him properly, because children who are
malnourished eating non food items. And I said, I think
I'm feeding him. Okay, what's going to be missing? Well,
I have to take blood. And so again it's it's
very accusatory. Will you even.
Start, Yeah, that's pretty sad.
But in the end that this doctor said he did
take blood, he found there was no nutritional deficiency that
he could see, so that he put us on the
pathway for an autos of assessment. That was the first
time it had come up.
How old was he at that point in time?
So he was three at that point, and I felt
he was a fairly yes, robust, yes, active, otherwise fairly
typical three year old. He ate well, he slept well.
I wasn't seeing what they were seeing a definite need
to march to his own tune, absolutely, but I wasn't
seeing the catastrophic problem that it was for the education system.
And that's what happened. At that particular point. I was
made to understand just accommodation was going to have to
be made for him for him to be able to
fit in school. And it started a process for me
of we're absolutely certain that this is the right place
for him and that he must fit. Even if it's
not right, he must fit. And that started a questioning process.
So my background is an investigation, and I think I
got there eventually, once I got through the grief and
the upset was I started asking questions.
Everything you said is just so understandable. So what was
next for you? I understand that you started your own business.
I did. Yeah. We tried very hard with the school
to try and get this fit. We had all the
care plans, we had all of the plans that just
kept changing. The constant phone calls and the constant meetings,
and I just couldn't be at my desk and I
couldn't be at the school. There wasn't enough of me
to go around. So my husband initially put in a
request for a reduced hours. I put in the same.
We tried to get something to work, and then a
bit of a gift for us, the world lockdown. Okay,
And in that lockdown period, I went from having a
child that was in the preceding year wanting to die
because he didn't fit well. He couldn't understand why he
wasn't like the other children, why he couldn't get on
this rainbow. He couldn't understand so much. When the world
locked down and I said to him, he won't be
at school today. You know, things have happened and it's
better for children to be at home with their parents.
He said to me, I will do anything, anything, not
to go back there. Anything.
That's a very big statement.
First time he'd really verbalized it. We'd had a lot
of I don't want to go things that you know,
he was saying that he was quite distressed, but not
to that extent. If I will do anything, And in
that period of time, during the lockdown period, we got
to see a young man come back, a young boy
come back to the person that he was a relax
He started to change. He went from the bottom of
the class to the top of the task, so much
so the teacher asked if I was doing his homework.
I'm sure, I'm not. He's just worked out that if
he does his work when he gets up in the morning,
he's got the rest of the day to himself. And
because you're not putting the timetable on him, he's just
getting it done, barely asking me anything. So he sat
next to me. I'm working, He's working. You know, there's
barely anything here.
That's just great to hear. Was there any other changes?
We also changed his diet. We noticed that he had
quite an issue with his tummy from birth. He seemed
to have an issue with his digestive system. We were
working with a nutritionist. The school had muted that they
wanted to do more medication, and I was quite resistant.
I'd watched children on medication not be themselves afterwards, and
I didn't feel that the medication was for him. I
felt it was for the school so that they manage him,
so we wouldn't get to see the distress and he
wouldn't be able to express it. And I didn't feel
that was a reason to medicate a child. So we
got a good look at it in lockdown and decided
at that point to see what we could do to
change our stars. And my husband had a message from
work saying we're letting you go, and I found it
very difficult to go in. It was easier for me
to be working from home so that I could keep
an on it, and I saw him improve. I saw
him change dramatically. The change in diet was also huge,
So changing diet, change in environment. Within about six weeks,
I had a completely different child.
So going through that, how old is he now?
So he's now he's going to be fourteen next month?
Fourteen? Okay, so how is he now? You started out,
you was concerned, you saw all the changes, you started homeschooling,
and then you saw on blossom into something new, fresh
and much better. So how is he adapting now? Especially
going through the teen years?
So he's thriving. And yeah, even with the teen youths,
even with the teen us, he is thriving. We have
tried many iterations of a timetable of learning, so he
could see what was happening. Within about six months through
that out and said, look, I'd just like to do
it when I feel like it. I said, Okay, as
long as the feeling like it works, let's try it.
That was the agreement that we had between us is
that as a family, we would look at what was working,
and we're quite prepared to tweak it and move it
around and see how he learns best. Because we lived
on a small island, our access to a lot of
things it was wonderful, but it was also limited. It
became progressively more expensive to leave for experiences. We figured
out fairly quickly he learns really well when absorbed in
an environment. When he's in the environment and he can
take it all in. So we decided to move into
a motor home traveled for three years bringing experiences to him,
rather than trying to get him to connect with the
experience in a book that was proving challenging. We started
because we were on quite a budget the first time
my husband and I had not worked had an income.
The income came from renting out the house and we
traveled in our motor home on that budget. Our eldest
went off to university in Scotland and that's how we
ended up discovering the delights of Scotland, and so we
traveled around here around the UK then we traced his
family tree back to France, went traveled there, learned about
Second World board beach landings. He was totally absorbed, so
it flowed. Learning just flowed. It was so easy. He
had questions that we were there on hand to be
able to answer him. Were there challenges? Yes, absolutely, there's
three of us living in a motor home for about
seven months. I couldn't believe there was not crossword between us.
Then he started to get worried about what would happen
when it ended.
Well, that makes sense.
That was the time to have the conversation with him
when he asks the question, rather than pre empt it
over plan anything else. So we met him at that
particular point and said he loved Scotland, he wanted to it,
was quite happy to live Guernsey, didn't feel particularly attached
to it, and was quite happy to come and live
in Scotland. It's very outdoorsy. We've done the Three Peaks
challenge together and he just loves that life. So he
started to he was writing and it's all self directed.
And that's the bit that shocked me as much as
anything is just once he decompressed how much he did
have that direction he's always had I'm going over here,
I want to do it this way, I'd like to
try this. He's always been quite self directed, and I
think what was actually really impactful for him in his
school is it's so regimented, and there's this idea that
all autistic people need to have a very regimented routine,
and that's not entirely true. William didn't tick the box
for that at all. He was I know where I
want to be, I know where I want to go.
Now the current interest is rugby.
Oh that's great. Now, what about meltdowns? Artistic people are
well known for having them. How is he affected by that?
So we still have meltdowns? They were particularly aggressive, particularly
violent when he was younger, no ability to control the
level of emotion that was coming up. Now we have
strategies that we work with. So the keys are not
being overwhelmed, not overwhelming him, allowing him to have that
autonomy with his learning, and him allowing us to make
suggestions as guides and coaches rather than prescribing. We don't
prescribe learning for him. We try to encourage it as
he's going, but it's not prescriptive. It's a we have
this sort of you know, if you try it and
you don't like it, you can leave. So there's quite
a lot of autonomy in his system, and I think
that is helping with the reduction in the meltdowns he's
getting older. Current challenges are still social, so in the
rugby and Scouts groups that he belongs to. If there's
a social difficulty in there, something he doesn't quite understand,
that tends to be very, very challenging. If his system
gets overwhelmed by it, we will still see an inability
to manage the emotion, though we're still working on it.
De bacting strategies all the time though.
So yes, that's very good that he's adapting. Now, what
about focus. It's very well known that the artistic people
around the world, when they focus on something, they get
so intense on it that they will not give up
until they know everything about it. Does he tend to
get focused like that as well?
Absolutely so if he takes a break, I don't worry
about it either, but he will. He will drill down
until he's satisfied that he's got what he needs, which
frequently is further than I would have gone into a
subject for his age. You know, I've tried to make
it age appropriate, but he will drill down pretty hard
into some of these subjects. We did actually take him
on a world cruise as well, when my pension came
in and we decided to take him around the world
and absorb show him that it's quite a big place
and it's bigger than he thinks it is.
That was really a great thing to do. Now, with
all the activity that happens on a ship, how did
he handle that? Was it good for him?
He was amazing. We went on a small cruise ship
with a lot of retired people, so he ended up
with about sixty sets of grandparents onboard a cruise ship,
building lego, entertaining them, playing games, loving the countries that
we went to see, and really understanding that there really
are completely different ways of living out here. There's not
just one way, which is where he was stuck at
that particular point. He was quite stuck that there might
be one way of doing this, many ways, many ways.
Look at this. That's good that he's developing. So with
everything that was happening, you became self employed. Can you
expand on that sum.
I was watching him with stones and crystals when he
was younger. He was absolutely drawn to them, and he
said that he could feel them. You know, there was
like an electricity. He was describing it like electricity. I
can feel it, I can feel it. He would sort
of smell people as they were going past. And one
occasion we were when we were traveling, he said to me,
you have to tell that lady not very well. And
I said, I can't do that. So you can't just
approach a random stranger and tell them that you don't
think the very well. But I understand that you're sensing something.
So my business started to develop around holistic practices. It
started as coaching. I retrained to the coach as much
as anything to learn how to support William, so it
would develop my coaching skills. But I also looked at reiki.
I looked at crystal energies with crystals, and I looked
at cacau. I was looking at a natural way to
help him manage that anxiety that comes with trying something
a little new, you know, to a certain extense that's
perfectly natural for the vast majority of us. But I
really wasn't keen on medicating the body's developing. He's still
a young person, so I found a natural alternative in
a really, really high grade cacau. I was using it
myself because it was pretty anxious at the time that
we were changing a lot. I've always worked for somebody.
We weren't living a regular and typical life anymore. There
were definitely anxious moments. I started with this very high
grade cocow and it's been a part of our lives
ever since. So now when he's feeling slightly anxious, he'll
ask me for a cacow banana smoothie because the natural
properties in cacou are really high grade catcount where it's
complete with all the cacao butter, minimally processed, no milks,
no sugars, no, nothing like that. It's a very bitter chocolate.
Yes, it's great. I love it. I use it at
least twice a day.
Ah, it's just incredible for the natural response in your body.
You can't.
I have a smoothie that I make once or twice
a day, and that is one of the key ingredients
that I put in every time I use it.
It's great, Oh amazing. We're huge fasts.
You are correct, though, it's very bitter.
It is very bigger.
Yes, it is I added to everything that I put
in my smoothie. Then I add some protein powder as
a great texture. Even though it's bitter, it has a
great richness to it.
Oh, I'm with you completely. I love the richness. I'll
just have it with warm water myself, you know, and
it replaces my morning cup of tea cup of coffee
or anything else. I have my cacao and will reaches
for it. If he knows he's feeling a bit edgy,
a little bit anxious, he's starting to recognize this himself,
and he'll pop a banana in a blender with his
cacao and his oat milk, and that's it. He's got
a chocolate banana, smothy as far as he's concerned. But
it calms it down.
Yeah, and that's all that matters. That it works for him.
So now, are you trying to use foods as ways
to help people? Is that the all natural way that
you're trying to do.
We share our diet, so we worked very closely with
the nutritionists around the gut psychology and the gut brain.
So we had about six weeks. As I said, it
took about six weeks, and I had a different child
on my hands, and it was intense, but it was lockdown.
It was bone broths. It was cleansing the gut from
whatever was distressing it. We couldn't wear out the anxiety
was coming from this very upset tummy, or the upset
tummy was because of the anxiety. So nobody knew which
way around it was. So we decided to try with
the nutritionist and he helped us cleanse the gut so
I could see if there were food he was reacting to.
And he was so on board. The whole family did it.
We all did it with him, so he wasn't different
in any way, shape or form. We had natural bone broth,
organic foods as far as we could possibly do it.
Out came dairy wheat, all of the usual triggers that
all came out until the gut settled. So we had
bone broth through about a week, every meal a day.
But what he loved about it was that he could
go to the stove and help himself to as much
as he wanted, whenever he wanted it. There's no limit
on how much of it he could eat, so he
was just filling up on bone broth. It was really
amusing to me. I didn't think an eight year old
would go for that.
Yeah, that's great. Now, you said you did it for him,
but you said the whole family did it. So I
guess my question is, how did it affect the whole family?
I said to my husband, I'd had a rash down
my arm for as long as I could. Both my
arms have had rashes on them for most of my life.
I've always had it. I've never understood why I've lived
a bit poorly. I've always been very well, and yet
as soon as I changed it, the rash went completely
like it had never been there. And I think I
was having some kind of reaction to it. Seems to
be wheat or dairy. And I think the way we
process our food is the thing that has changed so
much over the last sort of fifty years. It's barely recognizable.
I really have to hunt to find food that is
organic and natural. And it shouldn't be this hard. It
should just be food. It's so processed.
Yes it is, and over in the UK and Europe
the stringency of the food is even more than it
is here in the US.
Yeah.
So if you are having a tough time living in
the UK to find organic and better foods. Just imagine
what it is for people around the world.
Finding organic food. You've got one supermarket in Guerante that
would do organic foods, and if the shelves were empty
and the ship couldn't come in, that was it. You
weren't getting it.
So yes, I can fully understand that now going organic
or as much organic as you can, you saw a change,
even though it took some time. Did you ever think
that it was going to be this kind of change
with just changing the food that you was consuming?
Absolutely? I never had this in my future. I never
had this on the cards anywhere. It was a pivot
I wasn't anticipating, but it was necessary. It's turned out
that everybody's benefited. My husband and I feel healthier than
we ever have. Our eldest son wasn't too tough to
start with him? Is that, well, what did I do wrong?
I was that, well, actually it's better for you. But
his skin cleared up as well, so.
So I'm interested. Has he stayed with it at all?
Hazy experimented a lot more with his diet since we
did this, so he was pesctarian for quite some time,
realizing he didn't actually like the taste. Of meat, but
he needed fish. He needed a higher level of protein,
so we reintroduce fish. Now he's back, but he was
a student for a while, so buying organic meat was
not in his budget for ages.
So I totally get that. Now I'm not much of
a meat eater. I get all my protein from plants.
Different plants from different parts of the world give me
everything that I need. So I'm as close to being
a vegetarian as you can be without being a vegetarian.
All plant based amazing.
That's what we're experimenting at the moment because of Will's
rugby too, is like, how do we reduce it? Because
I don't mind having meat in my diet, but I
don't want it to be excessive.
So yeah, I'm the same way. I very very rarely
have any meat whatsoever. I mean, I'll go to doctors
and they'll say, where do you get your protein from?
And I'm going, you're a doctor, you should know that
I get it from plants. There are side effects though,
you get better cholesterol, you feel better, you just all
are healthier. And people just don't realize that by cutting
meat out and going with plant based that it can
help you tremendously.
Now I do agree with you. It's changed dramatically from
being shift workers that we're kind of grabbing food on
the hop to actually really properly concentrating and being windful
about our nutrition.
Absolutely. Now our fruit's a big part of your diet
as well.
Yeah, we have fruit, so you know, apples are a
big part of our diet. Banana's throat, smoothies, lots of grapes,
lots of berries. We try to keep it seasonal. More
on the bedside, Well, was very happy with the sality
as long as it's as long as it's a plateful
his high. It's still got the eye thing, you know,
like it needs to be huge.
Well, at least you've taken a situation which you started
out thinking was bad. Now it's evolved into something that's
turned out to be pretty good for the whole family.
It has I wrote as well as part of the
healing process, I think for me to writing with a
lady I was on a course with and asked her
if she was sent to check it for me for
a blog to put on my website, and she said,
that's not a blog, that's a book.
So did you complete it and turn it into a book.
Did I wrote the book. We called it The Magic
of Not Fitting In because it kind of summed up
what felt like it was hopeless and impossible do There
really is a little bit of magic here in this
little boy. He's just transformed and a determination to go
his own way that I think belise his age. He's
transformed everybody around him.
That's just so inspiring. Now, how can people find the book?
So that's on Amazon and it's on ingram Spot though
it's on both platforms. Or you can go to my
website on Geminidirections dot co dot uk and the links
are all on there.
Oh that's great. So in closing, what would you like
the listeners to know that you feel is important they
hear about what you're doing and of course what you're
planning on in the future.
There's a natural way if you can stand the pressure
of performing and medication, and if you can withstand that
and you're listening to your intuition here, that there is
a natural way to do this that will be supportive
of your whole family in this process. I'm not saying
it's a one size fits all thing, because I don't
believe in that either. But if you're noticing issues with
the GUP, it's worth looking at the diet because I
couldn't believe the change. If you're noticing anxiety, find CACAU
and give it a go. It's worth a go just
to see if it's going to help and support you
in a way that it's supporting us. And I don't
think there's enough literature out there around these ways. There's
a lot of there's something wrong that actually there could
be something really right here too.
Yeah, yeah, I think that's great. Well, this has been
been really informative, a good conversation. I really appreciate it
taking the time to come on.
Oh, I like gross, Thank you. I can't believe I'm
talking somebody from Nashville else. Thank you.
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