Dylan Cease’s big Blue Jays deal, O’s sign Ryan Helsley, Rendon’s bye

00:00:04
Speaker 1: Jill and Ce signing for seven two ten in AJ's mind, seven point two in my mind, Shy, what do you think of the move?

00:00:13
Speaker 2: I think from a Blue Jays perspective, it makes a ton of sense. Starting pitcher was their number one priority this offseason, and they got a guy who can move forward. It adds a guy who has front of the rotation capabilities for an extended period, which is something that they didn't have a lot of certainty with both Kevin Gosman and Shane Bieber being eligible for free agency after the twenty sixth season. So this is really the number one thing, maybe the top priority for the Blue Jays this offseason that they've gotten taken care of. Assuming that everything goes well with the physical and gets finalized in the next day or two.

00:00:54
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the blue Jays end of the situation here. How unlikely is this for them to be this aggressive early on in the market. I read your article over the weekend about how they like to be very calculated with their projections, and this seemed to veer off what they usually do, and I think most people, especially Blue Jays fans, were excited about it.

00:01:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it doesn't it doesn't in some ways right, because like, yes, they tend to be deliberate and patient, but sometimes everything lines up for them. And they've liked Dylan Sea's for a while. They've tried to trade for him on a few occasions in the past, including as recently as last spring, and obviously didn't happen. And this was their guy, and so they would have done their normal work, which would be surveying the market for all the different options, and this fell. This came together in a way that's a little bit faster than normal. This is a bit a typical on Scott Boris's end too, where he often takes things a little bit deeper into the winter. But sometimes things line up. I think the Blue Jays in their presentation to Cease, did a lot of things that captured his attention, as to my understanding, so everything lined up for them, and I think for them, you know, Dylan sees a lot of the things that they tend to value and prioritize in pictures. There's the big velocity, there's swing and miss stuff, a strong baking pitch, a history of durability. Those are all things they really value, and sometimes things come together quickly, and so I think that happened in this case, and it's not necessarily something that we're used to seeing from them all the time, but this is one instance where all the pieces seem to line up fairly quickly.

00:02:50
Speaker 3: I mean, it was great. If I'm a Blue Jays fan, I'm like, we lost in Game seven of the World Series and then oh yeah, we went out and got one of the best starting pitchers on the market. The team knew what it was one, it prioritized it, and they went out and spent the money that they had to go do this. Now I'm happy, I'm excited if I'm a Jays fan, shy, but I'm also like, Okay, can we still bring back both? Can we go out and help the bullpen a little bit? Whether it's a Fairbanks or whoever they want to go out and get. Can they still make these moves because there's a Blue Jays fan, I'm like, I'm very excited, but I need one or two more moves and then we can be really awesome.

00:03:24
Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:03:24
Speaker 2: I mean, look, I think if you're a fan, it's never enough, right, just keep making more moves.

00:03:28
Speaker 3: And it's not my money, Listen, it's not my money, So spending no, and not mine either, And I think you should make the team as as strong as possible. You have a phone, you have a cell phone. I do are you on Rodgers? Are you on Rogers communication? Because isn't everybody in Cannon on Rodgers?

00:03:46
Speaker 2: Very many people are yes.

00:03:48
Speaker 3: Okay, So every time that you every time you pay a bill, you're helping pay for Dylan Caesar's contract ten years from now.

00:03:53
Speaker 4: So thank you.

00:03:54
Speaker 5: Yeah. Absolutely.

00:03:55
Speaker 2: Look, I think that the money is there, and I think they the ability is there when they're opportunity is right, like the way that it's been explained to me in the way that the Blue Jays have spoken about it on multiplications, that when there is a business case to be made, that if they can justify it, then they can go do it. And so this doesn't rule them out of anything else that they want to do this offseason. There are a few more things they want to accomplish this offseason, and there are obvious needs. Boba shed is certainly key in that regard, but I don't I don't think this cuts them off to anything, and I think, if anything, it just gives them more opportunity because now, like the major thing of the to do list is gone, so now you can just focus on other areas and can really just what I think that they're probably doing, or what I think they should be doing, is just looking ways to chase wins right now, right like they can do, they can augment in a few different ways. There's a lot of creativity that you can apply to it. But just where are you going to get the most wins for your roster? At this point?

00:05:04
Speaker 6: Do the Blue Jays feel like they're buying low on Dylan Cease? I know it's hard to say when you when you put out a two hundred and ten million dollar check, but you look at what they did with when they got Gosman.

00:05:14
Speaker 4: He had that.

00:05:15
Speaker 6: Mega year for the Giants. They kind of paid high, but they saw the trend of what Gosman has been the entire time he's been there. Cease's eer was I think right at the four and a half, but other metrics would say it's closer to like a three and a half, maybe even a three point four. So do you feel like they've do they feel like they've bought low on this even though they put out two hundred.

00:05:41
Speaker 4: And ten million.

00:05:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think that that I would necessarily say bought low, but I think they bought what they're expecting to get from him, right, And what we've really seen in the past, you know a couple of decade decade and a half or so, is the evolution in free agency from teams paying for what a player has done as it passed to them really trying to pay players based on what they think they're going to accomplish.

00:06:08
Speaker 4: And you know, a big part of.

00:06:12
Speaker 2: Ceases interest in the Jays was, and probably from other teams too, was know, what what do you think that I need to do to get to the next level. And you know, from the conversations I've had about him, people say that he's immensely motivated. He wants to be the best that he can be, wants to tap into his ability, the way to fully tap into his ability, And so some of the questions that the Bluejays were asked was like what do you have in mind for him? Like what what does how does he become that consistent front of the rotation guy who's who's posting every season. And so his camp liked what the Blue Jays had presented, and so I think that that would have been what the Blue jays envision for him, like whatever it is that they presented him, the ideas that they shared at that point in time, that's what helped Tip to scales, and that is what I believe they're buying.

00:07:07
Speaker 5: KP.

00:07:08
Speaker 1: The website is Chubbishorts dot com. The brand is Chubbies, but it's not just shorts.

00:07:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, don't be fooled by the website's name. This is a one stop shop for all things that I love, swimming trunks, golf polos, and even flannels. It fits me perfectly. One stop shop is the place to go.

00:07:27
Speaker 1: Yes, Sir KP. I've been wearing their flannel overshirt. It's like my favorite flannel and your softest sweater having a little baby. It's the best of both worlds. Classic flannel look with the warmth of a fleece. And we know it's that time of year to pull that off. The Chubby's flannel overshirt. It feels like your favorite flannel, but with the warmth of a cozy sweater. And for a limited time, chubbies is giving our listeners twenty percent off your purchase at chubbies with the promo code foul a checkout. But if it's black Friday, Skip the code take advantage of an even bigger markdown during their inclusive Black Friday sale. Just head to Chubbs shorts dot com and make sure to support the show by telling them that foul Territory sent you.

00:08:09
Speaker 6: Is there is there a belief also that they made this move this early? They're like, Hey, we just won the American League East. Now we want to be the ones that like our foots on the American League East throat. We want to be the one to make the first move. Or was it just something that hey, you know what, it came together because you talked about it. It's not really like a Boris Mo. It's more like, hey, you know what, we're going to kind of shop it around. Or did the Jay say, hey, this is our time to strike, So we're going to go after the one guy that we really want and we'll show the rest of the East. You got to start getting on board here.

00:08:45
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I think the time to strike peace is probably there that we're going to show the American League East. They tend not to think like that, at least outwardly that they that they're sharing it. I think that they're more of the of like how do we just accumulate the most projected wins that we can, right, And I think that again the acting early. If Dylan Ceas wanted to wait a little bit longer than the Jays would have waited longer for Seas, right They this, I believe, is the guy they really wanted, and you know, for for all the reasons I mentioned beforehand. So if that was going to take a bit more time, they would have played that out. But I think again getting this done early just gives them more flexibility and more to to be frank just just more time now and more resources that they can devote to other areas to explore other things, because again, the big primary ticket item that they wanted is now off there to do list.

00:09:48
Speaker 5: Okay, you teed me up perfectly.

00:09:50
Speaker 1: Let's get to that off season to do list.

00:10:02
Speaker 5: All right.

00:10:04
Speaker 1: By the way, I've been knocked out already. Sorry to interrupt you, but go ahead.

00:10:07
Speaker 5: What do you got for it? Yeah?

00:10:09
Speaker 2: So I think that the next one for them is probably going to be a leverage reliever, right they you can't have enough bullpen and everything that we see in the postseason how much they value I think that's going to be one of the next areas of focus. Uh, then they're also going to look to add it bat ideally an infielder, and obviously Bobachet fits into that range there. But again, because they do have some flexibility on the roster from a defensive alignment standpoint, they can do different things and they can pursue an outfielder if they so wanted. Finally, I think they're just going to keep on trying to add pitching. Right they can again be creative in a number of different ways. You just never have enough pitching, as much as teams have it. It's such a cliche, but you know, as much as teams have, you get into the season, it always turns out that it's not enough.

00:11:00
Speaker 4: And so is it.

00:11:02
Speaker 2: Can they add a swing man? Do they add two relievers? Do they maybe go find another another starter? Even I think there are just ways for them to further build out their pitching. It'd be something that they still want to do.

00:11:14
Speaker 3: Sure, when you say leverage reliever, are we talking Edwin Diaz? Are we talking someone like that, like a big big name Robert Suarez possibly, or are we talking more if you kind of fall down the list a little bit, Not that these guys are terrible, but a Pete Fairbanks, a Amelia Pegan, a Luke Weaver that had had or you know, coming a little bit cheaper than the big name DS Suarez, even Devin Williams, I'll throw in there as the big name guys. Are they looking at someone like that or are they going to try and maybe add two or three of the lower end people. Yes, so I just put its Edwin d He just reported yes.

00:12:01
Speaker 2: Not quite agent. I think you might be taking some creative license there, But I think they're open to all the different possibilities. Like if they can get if something with Diaz was to work out and it fit within their their valuations, then I think they would explore that. And if it's something else, well they still have Jeff Hoffman and Jimmy Garcia, then they're pairing another eighth inning arm that gets swing and miss. I think the bottom line is they're going to look for all They're going to look at all the different possibilities. It is what they do and it's why they get connected to everybody. But they're going to look for somebody who gets some swing and miss, ideally someone who is somewhat platoon proof and you can throw them in there against lefties and or righty's and someone who has some experience in the back end of a game. Now is that eighth inning, ninth inning. Look, I don't think they're going to rule anything out. I really do think they're just chasing wins at this point and trying to get as much value, as much more as much talent on their roster as they can. But the thing that like, starting like last offseason, one of the points of priority for the that they've made with their relievers was to just get guys who get more swing and miss or more velocity into their bullpen. And I think that that's been born out in the type of pickups that they've made. Even if you go back to last year at the deadline when it was Dominga's and Varland who were their pickups there. Those are two guys who both have big velocity and both get a lot of swing and miss. So I'd expect the Blue Jays to examine every element of that market, to continue examining every element of that market, and whatever ends up working out ends up working out.

00:13:44
Speaker 6: Blue Jays are seriously in the mix for pretty much everybody, is what I hear from Shiza VD so we're going to go to the bat. We're going to go to the bat preferably an infielder. Is that preferably an infielder if it's bobashit? And if it's not it, is it elsewhere? Because Alex Bregman plays a really good third base and the opening at third allows Barger to play right field, which obviously there's a Tucker talk and there's a lot of shifting around. But if it's not Bobachett, is that bat going to be an infielder?

00:14:19
Speaker 2: Not necessarily, but it could be right. And I think that's going back to what I said about the Blue Jays could add in a number of different ways. They because of as and Barger being able to move around, and Ernie Clement being able to move around and having Springer able to be at DHN in the outfield, the same with Santander. The Blue just can just do a lot of different things, and they can go for what ends up being the best fit. That doesn't necessarily mean they're going to get someone on the super high end if Bobachett ends up leaving the club, but they can examine all the different options that are there. And so I think that just from the way that they're set up, I think it makes sense for them to probably get an infielder, probably one who can play second base, because you can put him in as a shortstop. And that looked pretty good for the two months we saw it in September and October. But they can just play with the opportunity based on the way that they can move their existing pieces around.

00:15:27
Speaker 4: The diamond.

00:15:29
Speaker 3: SUI is, should the Blue Jays next year with Louis Arland have the little thing that Fox had for Shoheyo Tani. He's due up in three innings, It'll be like Louis Arland will be warming up because is he warming up officially right now in the offseason? And has anyone confirmed that he can wipe his butt at this point in the off season After all the innings he threw in the postseason, how many times he was up that dude was unbelievable.

00:15:51
Speaker 2: For them, it was incredible, and you know, just in talking to him, he was just like, I can just keep going.

00:16:01
Speaker 4: Look there.

00:16:02
Speaker 2: He will obviously be managed differently over the course of one hundred and sixty two, but they were certainly attracted to his durability and the fact that he showed that he could do that will obviously impact the way the Blue Jays handle them, because they they will want to use him a fair bit during the regular season, assuming they will try to find ways to ensure he can still do something like that again in the postseason should the Blue Jays make it next season as well. But it was really remarkable. There has been some loose conversation about whether or not he gets stretched out a little bit next spring and whether that's something they look at. I don't know that there's any definitive conclusion whether they're going to go that route or not at this point, but you know, they've kicked around a lot of different things with Louis Varland, and at minimum they know they've got a very durable and reliable piece for their bullpen mix.

00:16:58
Speaker 6: When you said pitching death because your third point on your to do list, do they look at it as okay, Chris Bassett gave us below a foury RA. He gave us thirty one starts during the year, and he was a piece out of our bullpen, a big piece in the playoffs, but a piece out of bullpen. So do they look at that pitching depth as something that okay? It's important, but it's not that important. It's not a Tatsuya My type of important. Or is it the whole spectrum of where they're looking for pitching depth kind of like you talked about the leverage reliever.

00:17:35
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I.

00:17:35
Speaker 2: Don't I don't think it's maybe on necessarily on the high end unless they do something else with their staff. I mean, but you know, Chris Bassett to me is interesting, like he's a guy who definitely deserves a spot in a rotation. What he did out of the bullpen I think created some interest in what that would look like full time if he was a reliever, and how versatile a pitcher he is. I don't think he's the type of guy who would want to bounce back between the roles be go starter, reliever, back and forth as a swingman, but maybe potentially he's open to something like that. He was obviously super important to that clubhouse. He was really tied to in a lot of way the artery system of that team, where he was just a central part of almost everything that was happening there. But is there enough opportunity for him with the Blue Jays compared to what he might do with other clubs? Good question, but I think ultimately the Blue Jays just want to find innings, you know, finding a minor league free agent like an Eric Lower who can come up and emerge at a key point in the season when you know your depth is really being tested.

00:18:49
Speaker 5: I think that's important.

00:18:51
Speaker 2: The Blue Jayes do have some more internal pieces, be it someone like Bowden Francis this year, who was trending towards health towards the end of the season when he ran out a runway and should be ready to go next spring. There's a Ricky Tiedeman who's coming back from Tommy John surgery and should be ready to go as well, and he was one of the top prospects only in the Blue Jay system, but he was a consensus Pop one hundred prospect as well before it got hurt. So they do have some depth, but I think they'll try to just keep finding ways to add, be it on the major league roster or on the minor league side, that builds out the depth that they have.

00:19:30
Speaker 1: I have a unique holiday gift idea. It is called Superpower because krats they care about you. It's a very unique health platform. It's new, and it finally gets you the answers that you need about what's really happening inside your body and what to do about it.

00:19:47
Speaker 6: I got the answers. I'm on the journey of what to do about it. Why would I not want to give it to one of my loved ones in my life?

00:19:53
Speaker 1: Give your loved ones something that actually lasts. That's right, Kratz, better health and more time with you. If you go to super Power com slash Gift, you get a free forty nine dollars premium gift box with your gifted membership. After you sign up to ask you how you heard about them, please mention FT to support the show. One simple lab test measures one hundred plus biomarkers. We're talking hormones, vitamins, minerals, and so much more. You'll get a full health report and a personalized action plan built by clinicians, including nutrition, supplement and lifestyle guidance.

00:20:28
Speaker 5: Get after It, ft.

00:20:29
Speaker 3: Faan sure you mentioned his depth. One of their big pieces last year was Max Suers or have you heard if he's pitching next year? Do we know anything about his future and what he's going to do? Because he performed well in the postseason for him, so have there any talks maybe of a reunion or have we even heard if he's going to pitch next year?

00:20:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he's going to pitch and he I mean he basically said it just after the season and then reiterated that in some comments to Ken Rosenthal after. But the I think in terms of the Blue Jays, I'm interested to kind of see where that goes and how that fit is there. You know, Max sures are at this point. May I mean if depending on health, is he a guy you can count on to go wire to wire orre there going to be some things that that crop up the ways that you have to keep them healthy. H And does that fit with what the Blue Jays are doing? Do they again have enough opportunity as things stand right now? The Blue Jays have five starters in the rotation and maybe there's some movement some way, shape or form that creates an opening, but they're sort of full there. Does does Max want sort of a part time role or want to wait for an opportunity or is he going to go to a team where they have a spot more open for him? I think those are all fair questions. So I think there was a lot of a lot of appreciation for Max schures are not only what he did on the field, but the way that he contributed in the clubhouse on a number of level, the types of conversations said he had with front office people in terms of their game planning and information and the way that they assessed other players and planned and all things of those natures. There is a lot of appreciation for that. He very much appreciated his experience with the Blue Jays. So there's a two way element to that. But does that necessarily mean there's going to be a reunion. I don't know at this point. I still think that before that there are some things that would happen before that ends up taking place.

00:22:32
Speaker 3: So I might I may or may not see Max on Wednesday. So can I tell him that Shay DAVIDI said there's no chance he comes back to the Blue Jays.

00:22:41
Speaker 2: I mean, I'd prefer that you didn't, because I don't want him to throw something that time I see it. But look, I mean, I think with the way that he pitched it in the postseason, I mean he's cemented a place in appraceive appreciation with Blue Jay fans for will remember those contributions, especially that game in Seattle that was something that well, it won't be soon forgotten, So I think that's that's pretty cool. I think, look, we'll see where this Blue Jays offseason goes, and I think it's still at the beginning as opposed to the end of it, even with such a major move as the cease agreement. But I do think there's more to come. We'll see, We'll see how much variation there is to the rest of the roster, what kind of changes or further editions are made, and then you know, maybe there is a reunion in the offing down the road.

00:23:37
Speaker 6: Do we have to make sure that we're not blinded by their fact that they made at the Game seven of the World Series that when we evaluate what Ross Atkins has done for this team. I've been one of the biggest detractors of any like I was not a Ross Atkins fan. The moves he made, the fact that he was getting rid of guys and not resigning guys, and I felt like the law has kind of fell on him. Now this past offseason, they went out and got Sureser, Like you talked about Santander, and really Santander was the big move and.

00:24:10
Speaker 4: He didn't play much.

00:24:11
Speaker 6: So was this really a positive season for Ross Atkins because the players played well or because Ross Adkins made a lot of really good moves.

00:24:22
Speaker 2: Well, I mean it always comes down to the players, right Like the players, as much as front offices can do once they're between the lines, it's all dependent on the players. But I don't think you can kind of look at what the You can't divorce last season from what the Blueg's had done over multiple years to get to that point.

00:24:45
Speaker 5: And I think.

00:24:46
Speaker 2: That's the conclusion that you know, Mark Schapiro had reached, was that twenty four went about as horribly as it could have gone, but twenty four, being as bad as it was, wasn't fully reflective of some of the good work that had been done in advance of that, and that twenty four was an aberration. And I think there was certainly cause for concern with the way that the window was framing up that Vladimir Guerrero Junior didn't get done. And this may be narrative, but I do know some people who think that the Vladimir extent Guerrero Junior extension last April, and it's removing that as an issue and definitively setting the Blue Jays window as like, this is a team that's going to keep competing, this is a team that's going to build around a cornerstone like Guerrero. I think that was ended up being a factor because when they got off to the slow start and we're having some issues, it wasn't like everyone was thinking, Okay, they're going to blow this up in a second, right, Whereas if Guerrero hadn't signed, then that would have been a conversation around it. And so I think all the things end up being part of the Ross Atkins ledger. And so when you put talented players together and then you find a way to help them be successful. And that's sort of the less discussed part of the Blue Jay season, which is some of the changes that they made to their game planning and the way that they distribute information in their players, and some of the conversations around how they attack different things, the evolutions there from even defensive positioning, pitch recommendations, all those different types of things. That is all part of what the Blue Jays did last year. And so if you look at it as they had learned some very very hard lessons in twenty twenty four, but then applied them in twenty five and made the best out of a bad year. I think that you have to give everybody some credit. That includes manager John Schneider, includes GM ross Atkins. I mean, you know, if you're going to be blamed them for twenty four, you can't not credit them for twenty five.

00:27:03
Speaker 3: Well that was going to be my question. Is John Schneider officially off the hot seat now? Because going into the year, everyone was like, Oh, he's gonna be the first one fired, and then they got off to the terrible start and everyone's like, man, you know, everyone's looking at their watch, going okay, is there going to be a press conference today at two o'clock saying John Schneider has been relieved to duty And next thing you know, he's got them to the Game seven of the World Series. So is he officially off the hot seat? Yeah?

00:27:26
Speaker 2: I mean it may be done already, or if it's not done yet, it's going to be done soon. There'll be an extension for him and an extension for Mark Shapiro as well. So I think all that hot seat stuff that disappeared probably around last June or so, when the team turned the corner and then didn't let up and so you know, John Schneider actually deserves a ton of credit and there was a very strong case for him to be a manager of the Year in the American League. You know, some people around the team were quite frustrated that it didn't happen for him at that point in time. But you know, the the type of work that the Blue Jays did in transforming themselves out of twenty four into the group that went into twenty five. Uh, you know, a lot of that lands on him, and he was very deliberate in the off season. A lot of it was player driven, but it was running through him. And I think that anybody questioning sort of his future sort of did didn't watch what happened last year, right, And so I think that that'll probably be resolved fairly soon. Same with Shapiro.

00:28:37
Speaker 4: Uh.

00:28:37
Speaker 2: This is a team that has some stability, that's valued continuity, uh, and is poised to continue with that two of the key leadership spots.

00:28:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, him not winning him not winning Manager of the Year cost me an apology to Ken Rosenthal. So yeah, that was a little fus He is one of the first people at that nothing against Stephen Vogue, but first of first, usually wins your Manager of the Year. So I had to apologize to Ken Roosevelt, as Ken Rosenthal has done many times as the Blue Jays.

00:29:08
Speaker 4: So there you go.

00:29:11
Speaker 2: Hey, look, I think like there are two compelling cases there. Let mean, the run the Guardians went on at the end certainly impressive. But I think if you're looking sort of collective body of work, degree of difficulty in the between the different divisions, it's my eyes at least it's And I wasn't voting on manager this year, but it looked to me to be pretty clear cut.

00:29:35
Speaker 5: Yeah, Snyder had my boat too, Shy. Good stuff.

00:29:38
Speaker 1: Much more from Shy. He wrote about it the last few days and on his Twitter account too. You can check them out at Shi Davdi and you can check out.

00:29:45
Speaker 5: His work in sports Net. Always appreciate your joining us, Shy. Thank you. We'll talk to you soon.

00:29:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, could catch it up, guys.

00:29:52
Speaker 1: Be well, all right, let's talk about the Sea Steel here for a few minutes. A couple key points here, AJ that I'd love to get your thoughts on. Number one, are the best days yet to come for Dylan Cees. You get the classic complaints online about some of the eras and even era plus is not being great, but there's a ton of swing and miss right. We've seen some ups and downs from him, So did the Blue Jay sign of guy who is going to peak now, much like say Zach Wheeler has done with the Phillies.

00:30:22
Speaker 4: I think they are.

00:30:24
Speaker 3: Y'all might disagree with me here, but I think they are because the contract's done. He knows where he's going to be at for the next seven years. And this dude has unbelievable stuff. And Pete Walker, their pitching coach for the Blue Jays, has been there a long time and he knows how to get the most out of guys. I mean, Kevin Gosman, he was pretty good with the Giants. He went here has gotten better. Bast's been unbelievable since he's got all these guys. There's so many guys, a long list of guys that go to Toronto, and they get better because of Pete Walker, because of their hitting and pitching level. I don't know what it is, but they seem to get better when they go to Toronto. And I think he's going to figure some male with Dylan Seas if you can ever figure out a way to Getdylan SE's just those more fastballs so that he doesn't have to throw a slider every pitch. This guy's a limit for this guy, and I think they're going to get more out of them.

00:31:12
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would agree. Strike's a big thing. Strikes.

00:31:16
Speaker 6: I mean, everybody will tell you if you're walking too many dudes, it's always going to drag down your numbers, your efficiency, all that stuff. But the strikeouts are there, so can Pete Walker and more importantly, can Alejandro Kirk get the most out of this guy? Alejandra Kirk will be the starting catcher. He's going to be back there every day working with Dylan Cees. Can he get him as a he's a veteran now, he's he needs to know what he needs to do. But you also look back at his two years that he was getting SION votes. I think it was twenty I should have pulled it up. I think it was twenty two. Yeah, twenty two and twenty four. He was second in SiO, fourth in SiO. How those catchers worked with him, he has Monti Grendal and I think it was Martine Maldonado. How they work with him and get him to trust that we don't need to throw three balls to get a strikeout. You can throw two. You can throw two pitches and get an early out, which will create the opportunity to get ahead in account and then on the next hitter, which then can get you early strikeouts. And I think he'll still rack up the strikeouts, So can they get him to do that? That's where he would take the next level? Is he gonna take the next level like a Zach Wheeler type of next level. I don't take that high. But when you have the strikeouts, if you have the ability to lower your walks, yes, there is another level to be unlocked.

00:32:50
Speaker 1: For Dylan sees way better defense that's going to be behind him in Toronto. Now, Padres defense wasn't terrible, but the Blue Jays defense has been great.

00:33:02
Speaker 3: Defense doesn't matter. Defense doesn't matter for Dylan Seas because he gets punchies. The problem is, like what Krawt said, can he get punch outs in three pitches instead of seven pitches?

00:33:12
Speaker 4: Right?

00:33:13
Speaker 3: And can he be efficient with it? And I agree with what krat said, Yes, there's another level there because this guy will still get his punchies if someone can ever figure out how to make it more efficient instead of three to two on every guy, I gotta throw a slider. I got to punch this guy on a slider. Allah, a guy named you Darvish who did the same thing, and he is gone. He went to San Diego and actually got a little better. I think Dylan Seas will get with Pete Walker. Pete Walker, say listen, Dylan Man, we really love what you do. You got unbelievable shit. Throw it over the plate and let's see what happens.

00:33:42
Speaker 4: I think what you said the defense Scott is huge.

00:33:45
Speaker 6: That's gonna be part of Pete Walker's That's gonna be part of Pete Walker's sales. Pitch Well, why am I gonna throw on his own and throwing a slider three too? What aj said is not a soft thing to do. It's not a oh he's nibbling. It's you can throw the three to two slider. Just throw it in the zone. Well, you know sometimes it gets hit. Okay, Well why does it get hit? You know they hit it hard because I don't think it's as good of a pitch.

00:34:12
Speaker 4: Let them hit it. Let them hit it.

00:34:13
Speaker 6: We have platinum in center field, and we have platinum most likely at shortstop. If he's not at shortstop. Because they bring Bo back, he'll be at second base like it's a it's a sales pitch. It is probably part of their sales pitch. Yes, the two hundred and ten million is what got Dylan ceased there, but the sales pitch of probably the same thing that they told Roki Sasaki last year. Hey, you know what, we get it. You can throw one hundred with a forkball, but we just want you to throw it in the zone because we are constant, we're doubling down, tripling down with the trade of Andre Simenez last offseason on our defense and selling that to a pitcher can really kind of get a little bit of relief off their back that they don't have to make the name fastiest pitch in every situation and go five.

00:35:04
Speaker 5: And last point here.

00:35:07
Speaker 1: Players will sign with the Blue Jays more likely to sign with them now, of course they're winning. Most players have given the choice money wise, are going to sign with a team that they know is winning. Blue Jays looked like they had a great vibe going. Yes, is there a factor with taxes and being in a different country. Sure, right, there are pros and cons to most places where you sign. I also don't think the Blue Jays were going up against the Dodgers, which seem to be a problem for them when going for sho Hee Otani and Roki Sasaki. So they win the battle here. They strike early. Good for them. What do we think here? Two years, twenty eight million bucks for Ryan Helsley. He will not be a starting pitcher. He is going to join the Baltimore Orioles bullpen. So far, AJ we've seen the Orioles acquire Taylor Ward and.

00:35:58
Speaker 5: We've seen them now pick up Ryan Helsley.

00:36:00
Speaker 1: They also did trade back for Andrew Kittridge and pick up his option so that they can start to rebuild their bullpen. Keep in mind that Felix Bautista is going to miss this coming season, which is a big blow for them. I'm a big Bautista fan, but Helsley can fill the void. If you think that this past season, especially as time period with the Mets, was an aberration, were you surprised about anything here?

00:36:25
Speaker 3: No, there's a great deal for both. I think I think it's a great deal for both people involved. I think for Helsley, I mean, there was talking about him going back to Saint Louis. That never happens except for old as Chapman going back to the Yankees at the time when he got traded, and I think Helsley got a good deal. He got it again. This kind of goes back to the argument we just had. He got a deal he wanted from a team he's okay going to and you know what, whammo had happened, and it happened fast. And I think it's great. I think it's great for both parties involved, and good for the Oil, is good for Michael Las. He gives the fansome to be happy about around Thanksgiving, and it gives Ryan Helsley a chance to go to his mom and his dad and his wife and his kids and everyone else in his family and say, gosh, guys, I just got paid and we can have a hell of a Christmas.

00:37:06
Speaker 1: And Kratz, if he goes off, he can opt out after you're one of this deal and hit the free agent market again. Because this was a guy heading into this season that you thought would probably get a little bit more than this. Now you're looking at this past season and some fans were like, what two years twenty eight million for him? But I mean heading into twenty twenty five, he was looked at as what maybe a top five.

00:37:29
Speaker 5: No more than top ten reliever in the sport.

00:37:32
Speaker 6: And I mean after especially after leading the league and saves on a Cardinals team in twenty four that wasn't wasn't great. He was going out there. I think he was forty nine to fifty that year, but I'm not one hundred percent sure.

00:37:44
Speaker 5: Forty nine for fifty three.

00:37:46
Speaker 6: For fifty three, okay, okay. So I thought he was coming out of the twenty four season. After twenty four, I thought he was like a four year type of four year type of clothser twelve to fourteen million. So I'm glad he got the fourteen million, a little bit more aav Then you see some closers getting of his ilk because he's not quite an Edwin Diaz Robert Suarez, you know, definitely not in the hater land that kind of thing.

00:38:12
Speaker 4: But you.

00:38:14
Speaker 6: Have a guy who, to me, because he only got two years, the opt out is huge. He gets to rebuild his value and he's going to a team in the Orioles, who everybody had this on their bingo card. The Orioles are going to be the most active early on here in the off season. Like, no, nobody saw that. Have they signed the biggest contracts. No, But they're going after the guys that they really wanted. They didn't think Grayson was going to be there, so they went and got a thirty plus homer Battan Taylor Ward. They added Leode Tevers, smaller deal, not agreeing with it based on who they have in the outfield, but they did it. So they're moving. They're moving on the pieces that they want, adding Kittridge, adding Hellsley, because I think they had the most to do. Of teams that think they want to contend, even though this past year was awful, they have the most to do. They need starting pitching. They've essentially needed to rebuild their bullpen because they don't have Bautista. They don't have Unar Canoe, at least I don't think they have canoe. They don't have they don't have Sir Anthony Dimingez anymore. They are they really were down to the bare bones and they can't screw it up again with this window. So I love that they're going out hard here at the beginning of the at the beginning of the off season.

00:39:33
Speaker 5: They do have Cano. He just had a brutal year. I mean, he's really good.

00:39:35
Speaker 4: In twenty four.

00:39:38
Speaker 1: This past season fifty eight innings, five to one to two, Era really fell off.

00:39:44
Speaker 4: It was bad.

00:39:45
Speaker 5: Yeah, bad, he was bad.

00:39:47
Speaker 4: He wasn't good. That's okay.

00:39:49
Speaker 5: They have they have bullpen work to do.

00:39:51
Speaker 3: I mean right now, Kittridge, Chilly, I mean, they're they're they're doing the right things. They're making the right moves right going to in the outfild. They're trying. But they still need starters. They still need starting pitching. Who's that going to be. I'm but I'm proud of them, Scott, and I'm proud of what Crotch just said. They're going out early, and they're targeting their guys, and they're getting the deals done. Go sign the guys you want, Go trade for the guys you want, and then worry about the rest later because there's always those bargain guys you can find right now.

00:40:22
Speaker 1: Fourth power rankings a least for me, a lot of offseason left to go, and Ken Rosenthal did say that executives around the game.

00:40:29
Speaker 5: Felt as if there was almost going to be a sense of.

00:40:32
Speaker 1: Desperation mode, which was music to the years of Orioles fans for the front office to try and do things and do things quickly, because you're right, Krats, they do have a lot of work to do. The Blue Jays are adding on to what they've just had, which was almost the World Series title. The Yankees had Garrett Cole coming back this season and plenty of other talent. You know, they're going to do things. The Red Sox team like they're going to do things. They've already added Sonny Gray. Those three teams look better right now on paper than Baltimore and then there's Tampa Bay. They're not going to be that active, although maybe things change with a new ownership group. But do you guys have them any higher than four right now in your power rankings in the AL East?

00:41:08
Speaker 3: Does it matter?

00:41:10
Speaker 4: Does it matter?

00:41:10
Speaker 3: It's December first, and you know what you had last year? You had the Blue jaysus fifth in the AL East at this time, and you know what, they went to the World Series and should have maybe won it depending on who you talk to.

00:41:21
Speaker 5: Why do we even do the show?

00:41:23
Speaker 1: Why don't we just do the show for Game seven of the World Series?

00:41:26
Speaker 3: No, I'm just saying, doesn't matter. Secember first, verbal verbal one go? Who cares he signed with the Mets and they didn't make the playoffs.

00:41:34
Speaker 6: And I will say that I will say I agree that they're fourth. But this is also showing that any team out there that thinks they have this like super core, that's when you start pushing in. Because all of a sudden, like Adlei Ruschman came up in twenty two, he was like, that was when this core started to like get to the big leagues. That was the first like way coming to the big leagues. That's when they should have started pushing in. But instead they traded their closer right when they were like, I don't know what they were. I think they ended like eighty one and eighty one that year or something like that, and they traded away Pablo Lopez, who was not Pablo Lopez, Jorge Lopez, And it was like, why would you trade when you're close and all this stuff. As soon as your core gets there, start pushing because now we're fast forward in twenty twenty six. The Blue jaysuh, nobody thought we're going to be there, are now pushing to be better than they were last year as the American League East champs. The Red Sox have a young core. The Yankees are always going to be there. They're always going to be a playoff team, and all of a sudden, now your core has questions like push do some like put your job on the line. In my opinion, if you're running an organization right now, you have that core like the Orioles had and they still kind of have, but now they're playing ketchup and you don't want to be playing ketchup. You need to be the big dog out in front.

00:43:01
Speaker 1: We're hitting the futures market right now, because if you're a baseball fan and you're missing games, that's really all you can do. You can hit the futures market and decide on what you things is gonna happen next year. I mean, this one's always pretty close. But World Series winning league right now. National Leagues at minus won thirty American Leagues at plus one hundred. National League gets the edge partially thanks or many thanks to the Dodgers who have won back to back titles, and there are other talented teams in there too. Would you what would you do here, AJ if I gave you one hundred? National League? Thrown it on?

00:43:37
Speaker 3: How many times did we go over the power rankings?

00:43:40
Speaker 4: Every time?

00:43:41
Speaker 3: Producer Lady made us go over the power rankings. It was all it was National League, Nation League, National League, Nationallyague, Nation League. Oh, then yours an American League team at like six. Not that much has changed again, it's just number first cut.

00:43:53
Speaker 4: Okay, Kratz the same.

00:43:56
Speaker 6: Now we'll go to National League because most of the year we were going National League, National League, Tigers, National League nationally and you saw what happened with the Tigers.

00:44:05
Speaker 4: Just right now. The National League is better.

00:44:07
Speaker 6: They are a better group of teams, So why would you not put that money? And if I was getting maybe like plus one forty with the American League, then I'd may be like a, you know what, I kind of like those numbers, but no, I need I need that National League minus one thirty easy.

00:44:26
Speaker 1: I feel that the plus a hondo is not sexy enough. Maybe that tilts at some point in the offseason, but not right now. Okay, the offer out there for you is foul foul and get yourself up to fifteen hundred dollars paid back in bonus bets. If you don't win your first bet, that's your new player offer. There's also another chance at the first touchdown score second chance promotion, so you get your stake back in cash if your first touchdown score scores second instead of first in a pro football game with a player that you picked to score the first touchdown of the game, So you can check that out. Or if you're new to the party, the bonus code is foul for that new player offer bet MGM make it legendary gambling problem or concern called one eight hundred gambling.

00:45:28
Speaker 5: Damn. That show flew.

00:45:29
Speaker 1: Okay, So last licks here that I want to get to is the Anthony Rendon story that we actually did cover. So we had our last show on Wednesday. That story broke maybe thirty minutes after the show, so we ended up doing what we call a little breakout video, so we did a little quickie video reaction on YouTube. AJ wasn't there for that, so we wanted to get his thoughts on this, and I did a lot of back and forth in the comments AJ, because when we did this segment, AJ, Kevin l I was on and he started with Anthony Rendon as misunderstood and once he said that everyone lost their minds.

00:46:06
Speaker 3: I can only you know what's funny is I actually did see that clip and I felt bad for Polar because he did play with him for a little while. He's here's where he's not misunderstood though he doesn't play, so he's not misunderstood he doesn't play. And here's my other thing about this. They want to buy me. If I'm Anthony Rendon and I listen, I am Anthony Rendon and I don't know each other. We played against the other very little bit when he first came up with the Nationals, and he was a really good right handed hitter, and this and that. But I almost say this, if I'm Anthony Rendon and they come to me and I don't know what they're coming to them with, but they're like, hey, we want to defer money. And then I listened to Scott Bron talk. I say, no, I'm not defer money. Release me and pay me what Yomi. Don't try to buy me out and push money back. We signed a contract. I want my money now. So that's what Scott Bron said, because then five years from now it's worthless. So pay me with Yomi and we move on. And I'm not on any side in this fight other than the fact that they signed a guaranteed contract and it's time to go.

00:47:04
Speaker 5: Is that just me or no, No, that was just you. No, it's just me. I cannot hear anything right now, Okay, go Kreutz.

00:47:12
Speaker 6: I said all my pieces about it, but I agree like this. Hopefully it can be amendable in the sense that he's still going to get his thirty six million dollars, I think. But I think it's something that you know, he can be willing to push it down the road, help him out with some of the taxes part of it.

00:47:33
Speaker 4: Nobody.

00:47:35
Speaker 6: I think Rendon and the Angels both want this to go away, but it's not going to until this gets figured out, ironed out, and then you won't hear from Anthony, Rendon and the Angels anymore about this.

00:47:50
Speaker 3: True, they both wanted to go away. But speaking of going away, I have a quick comment for you, and I was not on. I was on vacation and you guys, said Kevin Kirmiron, and he brought up my comments, and I stand by what I said. Kratz, And I want to know because if I would have been on the show, and I want him to come back on, who are the teams that called you? How many teams? Name the teams? Kevin? Bring it on, because then I want to know what they're offering you. Hey, they're offering you to come to spring training for a day or two and they're not going to hire you. And yes, there are mental skills coaches that talk to different things and talk to different teams, and I get that, but not outfield coaches that I've ever found. And I'm all for it if he can figure it out, because I want that job. I want to be a catchup coach for all thirty teams. So Kevin, name the team so we can figure it out and let me know when you get that job, because I'm for it. But also I stand by what I said until I see it. I won't believe it. When I see it, I believe it because you know what, I once played for the Saint Louis Cardinals and they are in the show me state, So show me, Kevin.

00:48:48
Speaker 6: Okay, I appreciate that. And we loved it that he called you out. And he's keeping receipts. So next time, next time jan k comes on, we want to we want to know. We'll find out what teams he went to. And because it's not gonna be a secret, he's gonna be trolling around, but we'll go to Krats hats. How can I not when my guy, Zach Britton's coming on wear an O's hat, very classic O's. I feel like I can wear a hat all year. He is not a Yankee. I love that you asked that question. He played for the Yankees, but he was not remembered as a Yankee. He will be the dominant closer of the team that came up a little short. Came up a little short, but it wasn't his fault. Tomorrow's guest list, we have Max Munci, We've got FP Santangelo from Splashit Territory, and your favorite senior insider, Ken Rosenthal. Oh and don't forget, Yes, don't forget. We're still running the Black Friday special on the Foul Territory Shop for all your merch. You can even get foul Territory merch. You can get fair territory merch also, and a j I know it's go and cold in Miami and Orlando, so I think you probably need a beanie. You're a beanie. You have a beanie type of head, So get yourself. Never whoever beanies never. And by the way, bear down, bitch, bear down. Best record in the NFC. As you said, krats. The Bears are so good, You're so good. Bears are so good.

00:50:23
Speaker 4: That's what I text the name Ride the Highs, Ride the Highs,