Inside the Photoshoot: Next Level Styling with Editor and Stylist Ben Reynaert

Paloma Contreras: We are so excited to be joined by Benjamin Rayner today. We are continuing our series on everything need to know behind a photo shoot to deliver the most successful result. We've talked to Steele Marcoux about how to get your project published ⁓ and Parra about hiring the right interior photographer. And now we have Ben and I really think having the right stylist ⁓ is of the secret sauce. Ben also has the additional, I guess, skill set of being a seasoned editor. So he's a market editor at Elle Decor and is a leading voice in design, interiors, and the decorative arts. He is a RISD graduate with dual degrees in fine arts and architecture ⁓ additional studies in urban planning at Brown. Raynard brings a deeply informed, craft-driven perspective to every project he touches.

Caroline Gidiere: He

Paloma Contreras: He is the founder of Benjamin Rayner Creative, where he directs interior styling, visual branding, and product development, and the co-creator of the Ticking Tent, a celebrated artisan and antiques market, a founding board member of the Asian American Pacific Islander Design Alliance. Rayner previously held senior editorial roles at Architectural Digest, Domino, House Beautiful, Veranda, and Martha Stewart Living. His work champions layered style, meaningful craftsmanship, and the beauty of a well-lived home. He's also a new author. He's published a beautiful book all about everything you need to know about styling. He and I have known each other for a very long time. We've been friends. We've worked on shoots together. So we're so excited to welcome Ben today. Ben, thanks for joining us.

Caroline Gidiere: Welcome, Ben.

Benjamin Reynaert: my goodness, thank you guys. Wow, that is quite a mouthful. And I need to hire you guys to do my PR. That was so lovely and kind. Thank you. I'm excited to be here with you guys. ⁓

Paloma Contreras: Hahaha Thank you for joining us. We're so excited, especially because your book, The Layered Home Inspiration for Crafting Cozy Collected Rooms, just recently came out. It's freshly published. So tell us a little bit about that before we dive into all of the photo shoot 411. How did you approach this book? What prompted you to write it? And what did you really want the reader to take away?

Caroline Gidiere: has launched.

Benjamin Reynaert: Absolutely. The layered home is all about collecting the things that you love and living with objects that tell your story. And I think it's so important in the conversation that we'll have today about styling and photo shoots, because really seeing your space through ⁓ eyes is important these days. We see so many images and ⁓ really them to stand out.

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah.

Benjamin Reynaert: in putting the book together, I was chatting with a friend and we were just kind of jokingly talking about how it would be so fun to see my own Instagram kind of come to life in a book. And so I was extremely adamant in the beginning about shooting the entire book fresh, like all new imagery.

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm.

Benjamin Reynaert: And I think it's important to see things through a fresh set of eyes.

Paloma Contreras: And that sounds like it would have been quite the undertaking too, to shoot that many images and not use anything that was already existing for this book.

Caroline Gidiere: For sure.

Benjamin Reynaert: Yeah, and you know, I'm kind of like, when I see images that are super pristine and super, super edited, I kind of get bored and my eyes glaze over. Like, I think perfection is overrated. I think it can be a little bit boring. And so I, you know, really in putting the book together, kind of gathered, you know, around 17 people that I kind of knew had really kind of unique, interesting

Paloma Contreras: Mm.

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah.

Benjamin Reynaert: very layered lives. so I'm excited to kind of put forward photography and images that are almost like unstyled, to be honest. we kind of were really intentional about letting things just sort of exist as they are as much as possible.

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. I think those, I agree with you. I think those images are so much more interesting. You can get a feel for ⁓ lives here when you can really see it like that. We've through, you know, everything is a pendulum ⁓ and back and forth. ⁓ And come through this period ⁓ of perfection ⁓ broadcast a of life on social media. ⁓ now is craving authenticity. ⁓ And what your photos are. They're very authentic and true to the inhabitants of these homes. They're just so beautiful. ⁓ The images I've seen, and I ordered your book last night, because I got so excited when I saw it. ⁓

Paloma Contreras: and

Benjamin Reynaert: ⁓ thank you. Yeah. we got to send you a copy. And you're right, Carolyn. Like, I agree. The pendulum is swinging back. I mean, you guys do such a great job of creating like super layered, beautiful spaces yourselves. And I think I, you know, I'm personally excited to see less kind of like empty white shells of spaces with like seven things in the room. So, So yeah, you know, when I talk to them out meeting with designers and brands and sort of when I'm talking to younger people, like I just keep hearing from them that they're all kind of craving more analog experiences, sort of getting off their phones. And I think they want to be surrounded by more personal elements in their in their homes.

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah.

Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm. Definitely. Well, and that creates, mean, you get such a much more layered result. There's more personality that comes through, you know, more individuality. think part of what's happening in social media is we're sort of in the sea of sameness now. You know, things start to look alike and you see the same kind of room or style and over. And so when you find something that really has this personality and purposely isn't

Caroline Gidiere: For sure.

Paloma Contreras: think that's super refreshing. So I love that approach. And it's important too. I mean, even as a designer, think before, we really dive into the conversation. ⁓ One of the I love working with a stylist is because there's a different point of view and a different perspective. I'm so in it. I've been in that room in my mind before it came to fruition, before it was installed. ⁓ I've seen it certain way. So to have somebody else come in and be like, let's ⁓ like... sort of shake it up a little bit and loosen it up, like give it a looseness and breathe some life into it through the styling. That's super beneficial in the end for the images.

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. tell me more about the layered home, ⁓ your of layering and helping that out either through your book or your job at Elle Decor. I'm like, we talk about but you know, there's some people that really great at it. But I think most people kind of struggle trying to figure out how

Benjamin Reynaert: I totally agree.

Paloma Contreras: then

Caroline Gidiere: express their personality in their home, have an elevated decor, but not, you know, like junk it up with too much or, you know, or pulling back where it looks like a beautiful corporate retreat and nobody actually lives here.

Benjamin Reynaert: Exactly. I, it's so funny you mentioned that because I call those, we call those billionaire bunkers. Like, no, it's like the fifth home, you know, like no one stepped foot in there. one knows where anything is. And, and yeah, you're right. Like the layered home could be like totally terrifying to some people because I have friends that are like, my gosh, I get so scared and know, I'm so nervous about like,

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah.

Paloma Contreras: Yeah.

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Benjamin Reynaert: having too many things and having it look too cluttered. And I always recommend thinking about it. It's not about following rules or having a playbook. It's really about giving yourself permission to a world that reflects who you are. And so if you're on a trip or if you're at a sale, if you see something, it's like,

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah.

Paloma Contreras: Hmm.

Benjamin Reynaert: You know, we say in New York like see something say something like if you Find something that you're drawn to like always recommend like buy it like, you know, I love shopping in person I know you guys are like Olympic shoppers and I think you know, it's ⁓ nice to see things in person and I think you know having things that like spark a memory or remind you of your of a family member or maybe a friend like

Caroline Gidiere: You

Paloma Contreras: Thank you

Caroline Gidiere: You Yeah.

Benjamin Reynaert: I think those are the types of things that I think are nice places to start. if you are kind of averse to having too much stuff around, I like having one or two things that I know that I'm kind of always sort of looking for. ⁓ if I like, ⁓ love certain things, I love those antique silver toast racks. it's like, I, you know, I'll.

Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm.

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm.

Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm.

Benjamin Reynaert: have something to look for. I think it's sort of nice to not feel it's like a sea of unknowns. Yeah.

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah, it makes it fun. Yeah, it makes it more of an adventure and exciting when you find one, you know, and ⁓ do you have any advice on collections, like displaying your collections?

Benjamin Reynaert: Exactly, exactly.

Paloma Contreras: Would you say, ⁓ minds, Caroline. That was exactly what I was gonna ask.

Benjamin Reynaert: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I'm a big proponent of like filling like every space. I mean, you know, I like to sort of step back. I'll even sometimes take photos of my own space, like and look at them later and just sort of be like, ⁓ this like looks crazy on my phone. Seems normal in real life, but looks crazy in an image. And I think it's just

Caroline Gidiere: You

Benjamin Reynaert: it's helpful to kind of step back and look at things with fresh eyes. ⁓ I always like sort of recommend grouping things together, but at the same time, it's nice to let your collections kind of like meander around or break apart and not feel so much like there's a rule that you have

Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm. So it sounds like it's very fluid. It's about sort of training your eye to find that kind of sweet spot of things feeling like enough. There's personality, there's excitement, there's dynamism in the arrangement, but then you kind of know when it's too much and it's time to edit.

Benjamin Reynaert: Yeah, I think, yeah, diploma, it's like, that's such a good point. Like, it's okay to like not get it right too, you know? ⁓ walls are like Swiss cheese. I have like so many nail holes in them. ⁓ mean, you know, like, so I'm, I've gotten good at patching the walls, but I've even found that using like really small scale, yeah, ⁓ people are like.

Caroline Gidiere: Mine too, mine too. I don't even patch mine.

Benjamin Reynaert: Why'd you hang that there? And I'm like, well, it's covering like seven holes in the wall. But I've also found that like really tiny wallpaper prints like hide the nail, like a nail hole. So it's like, you don't even need to patch it up. So ⁓ I it's nice to like let things evolve over time. Part of the layered home is about kind of, you know, it's not only living with things you love, but it's about.

Paloma Contreras: This is it. Hahaha ⁓ Yeah. Right.

Caroline Gidiere: For sure.

Benjamin Reynaert: letting things exist kind of in time. ⁓ I think, you know, in Europe and in the UK and in France, I see these like beautiful collected spaces and there's like, you know, things have been passed down, things have been recovered, things are a little bit beat up. And I think bringing that kind of sensibility is forward in your spaces.

Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm.

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Benjamin Reynaert: is nice. You don't have to do it all in one go. It can kind of evolve over time.

Caroline Gidiere: Ben, I totally agree. feel like there are some designers a lot of the photographs that we see are the first ⁓ the design, ⁓ first act, basically. ⁓ the designer has come in, everything is perfect. They've maybe borrowed some art and like everything is pristine and perfect, but that, those houses feel lived in. And ⁓ I to my clients like, it's gonna take years to, ⁓ we don't wanna we don't wanna, you know,

Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Caroline Gidiere: Pretend layer it, know, allow it to breathe and develop over time. Like buy things slowly and let the house tell you, you know, we really need something over here. didn't seem like we wanted something, but now I want five things or several things, or I just want to, you know, like an art wall or whatever. Your house, think rooms will tell you what they're looking for. But slowly.

Benjamin Reynaert: Exactly. And I think the best clients and designers have like a ⁓ giant storage unit. Like, and I always ask because I think it's important to sort of know that like you do have things like there are like important pieces that are, you know, maybe part of your family history or, you know, things that you've collected. And I think it's nice to kind of like, you know,

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah.

Paloma Contreras: Thank

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Benjamin Reynaert: Remind yourself that they're there and you know, don't have to use everything all at once to your point but it's nice to kind of bring things in and try things out, take things away, like let it kind of evolve and let the rooms breathe and kind of let them, you know, based on how you use the rooms too, like, you know, let the room speak to you.

Paloma Contreras: Right. There's always, you always have to leave a little bit of flexibility and a little room for that evolution to happen because otherwise you end up with, you know, a page out of a catalog, basically. If it's too perfect and too pristine and everything's too matchy and every wall is filled with something, there's less personality. So I think, you know, it's part of that responsibility as a designer or a homeowner to allow a little bit of space and grace for things to evolve naturally over time.

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I think there's a real difference between theory, well, obviously. think it's obvious, it ⁓ on me the difference between ⁓ and the actual. Paloma I spent so much time in the theoretical and in the theory, the design, the paper, the diagrams, the watercolor ⁓ or rendering or the CAD or what have you of everything. and the color story, but then I feel like when you get it in real life, you're much less demanding of the perfection that we require these ⁓ renderings and things. And you're more accommodating of colors that aren't exactly perfect matches. But when they're tiny little squares on a board, you're like, these don't match. But if they were in a room, you'd be like, ⁓ this looks great. You know? mean, so I think there's only so much you can do in theory. And then you have to have someone like you come in with an eye and look at your place and give the confidence to allow it to breathe, evolve.

Paloma Contreras: No.

Caroline Gidiere: get out your grandma's sailing cup and you put it next to the on the coffee table or ⁓ side table or whatever it is that you're doing to kind of loosen it up a little so it's not so perfect.

Paloma Contreras: Yeah. And how many times have you been at an install or on a shoot the room was laid out a specific way in the furniture plan and it works in CAD, but then you get in there and you're like, actually, I think this chair would be better over here. We should move this little martini table this way. Or, ⁓ know, you start to move things because when you see them in 3D and like the actual volume of the room or in certain light.

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Benjamin Reynaert: Hmm

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm.

Paloma Contreras: it's just a different perspective and I think it allows it to really come to life versus what we see as you mentioned, you know, on the theoretical side.

Benjamin Reynaert: Yeah, absolutely. think when you are truly in a space and living in a space, you're going to use the room very differently than how you might end up needing to position things when you're photographing. It's so interesting to me that what works volumetrically in a three dimensional space sometimes like doesn't always work when you're going to like two dimensions and like a

Paloma Contreras: Yeah, it's so true.

Caroline Gidiere: For sure.

Benjamin Reynaert: you know, like a flat image. I never like change things drastically because I just feel like the way you've designed the room is like really truly how it should be and how it should be used. But oftentimes when you are starting to look through the camera with the photographer, there ⁓ is ⁓ there often small things like compositionally that can help make the photo better.

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm.

Paloma Contreras: Right, definitely.

Caroline Gidiere: But give us some examples.

Benjamin Reynaert: I mean, I think one example is, you know, the furniture, like sometimes, depending on where you are, like needs to come much closer together. ⁓ Because in reality, would never have your, you know, sort of side chair, like close to the sofa, but sometimes in certain shots, like you need to move the furniture to kind of suit the way that the camera sees the space. ⁓

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. Sure.

Benjamin Reynaert: But on the flip side, like I've been in scenarios where things, everything needs to like really come apart. So it kind of just depends on like the composition and you really kind of have to look at your images almost like paintings or drawings.

Paloma Contreras: Yeah, that's so true. Yeah, and I find like rarely when you're shooting an arrangement of furniture, something always has to be kind of at an angle. Like nothing is ever straight on, even if it's that way in the room. You know, you always sort of cheat it slightly because I don't know if it just opens up the image a little bit more or adds a sense of life or looseness.

Benjamin Reynaert: I know this is like a conversation that could definitely expand and get really technical, but yes, and depending on like the lenses that are being used and the distance that you are from a space or a vignette, like things do kind of like fall off the image or, you know, I often kind of have to move chairs slightly because they look like they're kind of falling off the image.

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah.

Benjamin Reynaert: if the angle of the lens is really wide. So yeah, you just kind of have to sort of, step back and really look at what's happening and ⁓ those adjustments.

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah.

Paloma Contreras: Mm.

Caroline Gidiere: I think I learned the most about my own design, the first photo shoot I ever had, the moment ⁓ take a picture of it and you look at it on the computer screen, you're like, okay, is not as good as I thought it was. ⁓ Whoops, right. Note to do more better next time. This is not enough. ⁓

Paloma Contreras: Yeah. Well, it's just, it's such a, it's so true because it's, it just goes to show the way that we process what we're seeing in person versus in a flat image is completely different. It's completely different.

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. Yeah. For sure, and because the lens is round and the image is flat, there is that weirdness around the edges that you have to counterbalance. I do always tell my clients, don't get weirded out that we have to move things around. wouldn't live this way, but it has to do with the camera and how it sees things. just... Just because we're putting this chair over here doesn't mean that it would be better over here in your real life, you know, or that you should live with this weird constellation of chairs. anyway. well, okay. Tell us, Ben, as the preeminent stylist that you are, how far, if you have, with this series, we're really trying to...

Benjamin Reynaert: Exactly.

Caroline Gidiere: do a service to everybody who like Paloma and I, when they first got started, we're kind of fish out of water trying to figure out how to, when you do your first photo shoot, ⁓ know, there's not a book, there's not a class that they teach in college on photo shoots and how to get ready for them and what you actually need. So we were just kind of trying to walk through the 411 if you had somebody, a new designer who never had done a photo shoot like, How far out do they need to reach out to you?

Benjamin Reynaert: I I always think, you know, everyone's so busy, photographer, stylist, you guys, your clients, like, the further out that you can start planning, the better. I mean, people plan, I've worked with people who plan, you know, even up to a year or more in advance because whether that's like, you know, you really have to consider like the location of the project ⁓ ⁓ know like, what's in season, like when does that property look its best and when are you kind of most able to have successful like outdoor images is, you know, like there's so many questions around like the landscape and that so and then also just everyone's schedules, it gets so complicated. So I think the farther out you can plan, the better.

Caroline Gidiere: And by far they're out like six months, a year.

Benjamin Reynaert: I mean, I said, ⁓ plan even more than a year. So I think it just really depends on what you're comfortable with, what your clients are comfortable with, and whether or not the people that you really want to work with are ⁓ available as So sometimes that can push things further out.

Caroline Gidiere: Sure.

Benjamin Reynaert: But I think what doesn't work is, I mean, unless you're really in some sort of like scenario that like prevents something like that, you know, from planning, you know, I think just giving yourself time and, you know, ⁓ investment ⁓ ⁓ know, you don't want to rush things and, you know, you're just more likely to make mistakes.

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm.

Paloma Contreras: Right. What should that designer do when they reach out to you? What information do you need at the onset of that inquiry to help you decide if it's a fit?

Caroline Gidiere: turn.

Benjamin Reynaert: I I always think it's really helpful to just talk on the phone. Like, I ⁓ the phone. I it. So ⁓ I like I can get so much. Yeah, with the cord. And I think ⁓ sometimes can just get so much more done ⁓ on quick phone call. But it's really important to have updated scouting shots of the property.

Caroline Gidiere: Me too. I want one with a chord.

Paloma Contreras: Thank Excuse me.

Benjamin Reynaert: And so those are usually just like on an iPhone. I also like to just know ⁓

Caroline Gidiere: And why is that? Explain to people why. Because like, Isabel was like, I don't want to see the scouting shots. I want to discover it on site. But that is not true for the stylist, right? You need to have good scouting shots of everything correct and tell everybody why.

Benjamin Reynaert: Yeah, I mean, I think it's probably lovely to discover things in person and in the moment. ⁓

Caroline Gidiere: Well, if you're the photographer and all you've got to do is like capture it. Yeah. Yes. You have to know what to bring.

Paloma Contreras: Right, but you've got a schlep accessory so you can't do that on flowers and all of that.

Benjamin Reynaert: Yeah, mean, mean, yeah, exactly. mean, ⁓ even like, you know, in working together with Paloma, like we were talking about, like, what's in that drawer, like in the kitchen and like, you know, what's what do they have in their basement or like what's in the garage and what's hiding behind, you know, what's in that cupboard? like to know what is available and like what's really pretty in the home already. if your client has a collection of porcelain that's like hidden away in boxes, I'd like, you know, it's helpful to know that that's there and that we all like it. And I think the scouting shots are also really helpful to understand like what is the like mood and the feeling of the house? Like what's...

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Benjamin Reynaert: What's it like? How is it being used? Where's the light coming from? just kind of nice to sort of get a sense of the sort of mood and the feeling of each space.

Caroline Gidiere: Right, like are we using wild branches? Are we doing peonies? You know what I'm saying? You have to make all those decisions ahead of time to be prepared for the shoot, right?

Benjamin Reynaert: Yes, and it's so interesting. have kind of a funny story about that. I was working on a really exciting project with the designer Thomas Jane in New Orleans, who I really love and admire and respect. so I ordered like much from New York, like in the flower market. ⁓ picked out all of this stuff and sat ⁓ on New Orleans tarmac.

Paloma Contreras: Thank you.

Benjamin Reynaert: for like an hour and it was July and everything was dead. And so ended up like going out with Thomas, like just walking around the neighborhood with like a pair of clippers ⁓ he's like seven feet tall. we were just kind of like, ⁓ was clipping things and it's actually one of my favorite shoots because everything that we use just kind of came from ⁓

Paloma Contreras: Noooo

Caroline Gidiere: Heartbreaking.

Paloma Contreras: Yeah, that's awful.

Caroline Gidiere: You

Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm.

Caroline Gidiere: the surroundings. Yeah, sure.

Benjamin Reynaert: the neighborhood. Yeah. And so I think, you know, when you're, it was a good lesson for me in that, you know, you don't need to always like spend all this money, like overnighting things by FedEx and like getting, you know, like the exact specific type of flower. It's like, actually that doesn't feel like right for the space or it doesn't really feel appropriate for the location. So I think to that,

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah.

Benjamin Reynaert: location and where you are really should inform like the types of florals and branches and things like that that you're going to use.

Paloma Contreras: Sure. So the house itself, the ⁓ all those things influence, I guess, your direction in terms of the styling. How do you get to know that particular designer's ⁓ aesthetic their work, their point of view? And what is sort of your process for, I guess, ⁓ determining much of that to bring out and how much it to be sort of like a counterpoint? Because ⁓ For instance, you and I working together, I enjoyed working with you because I thought you brought a looseness to my work, which is a little bit more buttoned up and it can certainly benefit from that. know, having that juxtaposition is beneficial to the end result. So how do you determine, like, do I lean into this person's vibe? Do I bring this sort of counterpoint to it? Is that just sort of case by case?

Caroline Gidiere: Ying and a yang.

Benjamin Reynaert: No, it's so important. It's like such an important thing to consider. And I sort of, you know, worked at Martha Stewart Living for like three years, trained with like some of the best style editors. And of the most important, yeah, one of the most important things I took away was like, you need to kind of be able to like, like a good stylist can like work in any environment, you know, like, so you can do like,

Caroline Gidiere: I only imagine.

Benjamin Reynaert: if you kind of like sort of be a chameleon in a lot of ways. Like think there's times when you're going to be shooting like a super glam penthouse in the city in New York. And there's also times when you're going to be shooting like a country house ⁓ New England and like a ranch in Santa Fe. So I think really good stylists like really listen to the designer. There's like a really good like

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm.

Benjamin Reynaert: vibe and there's like a strong dialogue there and you know it's important to you know I always recommend setting up like a series of ⁓ minimum of two phone calls to really plan out and make a checklist ⁓ of everyone is responsible for bringing and so that way like you know you're really kind of covering all of your bases.

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm.

Paloma Contreras: Sure. Do you also provide any kind of like style guide or what kind of planning are you doing ahead of time for the designer to have as a reference?

Benjamin Reynaert: Yeah, I mean, I think it's like it's really important for both the designer and the stylist to kind of like come to the table with like kind of some, you know, things that you know that you kind of want and to sort of understand like what the goals are of the project and really think about like the scale of the project and the time that you're kind of creating for yourselves.

Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm.

Benjamin Reynaert: kind like sharing, it's a dialogue, know, like sharing reference images back and forth. But I like to pull together kind of like almost like a sort of like, here's like five words that kind of like are defining this project and pull together some image references that kind of help sort of guide like, okay, this is like, this is kind of like our North Star. This is like what we're kind of aiming towards. ⁓

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Benjamin Reynaert: and work in tandem so that we're all kind of seeing things at the same time and making decisions.

Caroline Gidiere: For sure, a picture is worth a thousand words. You try to describe it, but if you can pull up an image of a way a room has been styled, all of a sudden it's like, okay, all right, yeah, I got it. Yeah. ⁓

Benjamin Reynaert: Yeah.

Paloma Contreras: Yeah.

Benjamin Reynaert: And it's so subjective. mean, I think that's one of the biggest challenges. it's like, think feeling really confident and comfortable with your team, really kind of knowing that like everyone kind of is going to work well together and like really feeling out people, like again, like talking to them on the phone, like really like looking into their background, like looking at their history, looking at the work they've done. Because I think the most

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah.

Benjamin Reynaert: important aspect of all of this is like, you know, this is like time, it's like time is money, you know, you only have a few hours a day in these spaces and if you're making mistakes or if you're, if people aren't being, you know, decisive, it's, it just, you know, waste time. And at the end of the day, it's like, you just won't get as much as you would otherwise.

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah, for sure.

Paloma Contreras: Sure.

Caroline Gidiere: Done.

Paloma Contreras: Do you want to know at the onset what the designer's goal is for the project, whether they're styling this for their own book or if they're hoping to pitch to a specific magazine? Does that influence the way that you're envisioning and approaching the project?

Caroline Gidiere: For sure.

Benjamin Reynaert: Definitely. I think it's so important for everyone to be aligned and really kind of understand like what are we kind of working towards. And I it's often sort of just important to sort of know like which ⁓ shots are sort important to have for editorial consideration and which shots are important to have for, ⁓ you know, maybe you're working with some brand partners are there other shots that are just kind of important for you to show clients like that you're never going to show anyone but future clients. So, ⁓ know, I like to know exactly ⁓ everyone's high hopes are, ⁓ what the plan is and to know that there's like the right people in place to kind of execute against it.

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. And what should, let's talk about payment and like what people should anticipate, not the actual dollars and cents, but what they should be aware that they will be responsible for paying for. Like your rate, I'm sure everybody does it a little differently, right? Can you break down kind of the different types of rates you might expect, not dollars again, but the... way in which you would be billed by your stylist.

Benjamin Reynaert: Well, you my rate is $100,000 a day. we just, start there. Yeah, exactly. We start there and yeah, it grows from there. And the photographer's twice that. So, but I think, you know, it's important to like kind of understand, you know, if you're like 28 and you know, you're finishing kind of one of your first projects, like,

Caroline Gidiere: You just don't get out of bed for anything less.

Paloma Contreras: Hahaha

Caroline Gidiere: Now.

Benjamin Reynaert: You know, you may not be at a point where you're going to be like bringing on this team, you know, like you may be working with a friend and you know, your budget, you know, it's, kind of like get scrappy and like maybe have a friend help you or, know, a family member, which I'm all for that, you know, like I think it's, you know, I think you don't want to be like unnecessarily spending money.

Caroline Gidiere: Hmm.

Benjamin Reynaert: with people, if it's not the right project or if you're kind of getting started. But I think it's important to kind of do your research. I love to cast a wide net. I like to talk to as many people as I can. And then I like to also really look at what people have done. I like to see who's being credited in magazines. I, you know, we're very aware of like who different people are working with. And then I also feel like it's, it's nice to see that someone's worked in like a variety of settings and maybe with like lots of different people. and I think too, it's kind of like, you know, to me, it of all comes back to like the bottom line. ⁓ And terms like the budget,

Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm.

Benjamin Reynaert: Like you'll save money working with really strong people because you'll get more done in a day than working with people that have less experience or aren't as like adept and you know you're gonna end up kind of like at the end of your shoot you're gonna be like why don't I have like X, and Z.

Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm.

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 100%.

Paloma Contreras: Right. And I would imagine, I mean, for you, have so much added value built into what you bring to the table as a stylist because of your vast background working as an editor at all of these amazing publications. I mean, you really are seeing these images, you know, the images that you're crafting at that time through this sort of dual perspective as stylist and editor, because you know what the editors are going to want to see when this gets pitched.

Benjamin Reynaert: mean, on a good day, you know?

Caroline Gidiere: and if you're not 28, if this is ⁓ business ⁓ you're committed it and you're trying to make a go of it, this is the time to ⁓ be in. You know, can't be half in and half out. ⁓ You go into this thinking, let me see how little I can get away with spending. It's the time to... you know, cause I've done it both ways. I've done, I think you do, you're so right. You end up spending more money when you're trying to spend less than you would ⁓ you just committed and said, okay, what's it going to cost? And maybe I don't do 10 projects right now. Maybe I just do a couple of them, but I do them well and right. You're better served, I think.

Benjamin Reynaert: Exactly. I think it's your point, Carolyn. It's like if you're an established business, like it's important to really have a very strong and very clear sense of who you are and and and like what your business is all about, what your style is like. Like I think it's it's important to have a strong brand identity. And that's also something I look for as well, because I think the more clear that you are on

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm.

Benjamin Reynaert: sort of who you are, the easier and like more clear it will be to create the imagery to support.

Caroline Gidiere: For sure, for sure.

Paloma Contreras: Yeah. Well, and you know, we've discussed before, Caroline and I, and in our conversation with Steele as well, how you are an established designer and you're hoping to get a project published, there are fewer issues and ⁓ magazines and the odds are, you know, sort stacked against you in a sense because there's so much competition now for those limited pages. And she was saying at Veranda, they're getting more submissions than they ever have. before and surely that's the same for Elle Decor or any other publication. would imagine photographers, I'm sorry, designers are just photographing their work more now ⁓ they would have 10 years ago. With social media, I mean, feel like it's a multi-pronged reason. We like we have to showcase our work a little bit more. ⁓ But would you say styling does to set a project apart in this sea of submissions? How does a project that's had a great stylist attached to it stand out.

Benjamin Reynaert: ⁓ my gosh, you're so right. Like the submissions lever is like pulled down and the gate is just open. ⁓ It's so true and is challenging. ⁓ know, I think that's why, you know, working with a stylist, working with a really strong photographer and having like support from own team as well, it's like you're of

Paloma Contreras: A lot of submissions.

Benjamin Reynaert: creating art in a way. mean, I don't want it to sound like so highfalutin or anything like that, but like in order to stand out, like these editors see so much like every day. And I mean, it's like, I think when you see something that kind of stops you in your tracks or, you know, there's just like ⁓ a particular kind of like mood and a feeling. To me, that's when

Caroline Gidiere: For sure. Yeah.

Benjamin Reynaert: you start to like bubble up and sort of rise above. And I think when you're really attuned to all of these kind of elements that we've been discussing, like the location, like who lives there, mood, like the time of day, like where things, where the light is, like when you're really kind of focused on those elements, I think bringing kind of forward like an artful ⁓ of thoughtful.

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm.

Benjamin Reynaert: energy and you know like kind of point of view helps to kind of just elevate the photography.

Caroline Gidiere: love those moments on a photo shoot when something starts to come together and everybody's buying in and it's like, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, whoa, wait a second. What if we did ⁓ and you're like, everybody's like, ⁓ my God, yes, yes. ⁓ let's wait until, you know, right, like get light just right and all those kinds of things. That's when it really is. magic or art or whatever you want to call it where it's really just like you know you're you're creating something um and particularly when everybody it it's always a vibe killer when you have somebody who's not down to play you know i mean like to figure it out and yeah

Benjamin Reynaert: Exactly. And sometimes will be like, Carolyn, Paloma, like, come here, let's chat, like, let's figure this out. And I'll be like, hey, like, photographer that we're working, like, just free to like, I feel like you should just go like shoot something really beautiful, like, you know, like that you just want to shoot. Like, I encourage like everyone to kind of do things that ⁓ maybe are little different. Like, I mean, you know, I think it's

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Benjamin Reynaert: it's really refreshing to kind of let your photographer just like capture a few things just on their own, like that they're just, you know, little moments, things that like I wouldn't see. I think like, you know, like you're saying, like having like that playful kind of like collaborative spirit is important and things can change on a dime, you know, like it's important for ⁓

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah.

Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm.

Benjamin Reynaert: everyone to be very flexible and kind of open to like pivoting. Like I've been in situations where like the photographer would be like, ⁓ my gosh, like something just happened with the clouds and like this light change and like we all need to go over into this room. And it's like, yes, like everyone go now, like run. So, ⁓ so yeah, like, you know, working with people that you, you know, are attuned to those details. It's so important.

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. For sure.

Paloma Contreras: Right, yeah. Mm-hmm. It's so great when everything, I mean, things are, it feels like they're firing on all cylinders when you have that synergy happening in that moment. And I mean, can think of a few shoots that I've gotten to do over the years where we had moments like that and they're just such special memories. And I think, you the images reflect that too. So that's when things are firing ⁓ well. kind feedback do you want to hear when you're on a shoot?

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah.

Paloma Contreras: positive or negative, like how do you want to receive feedback and how can that be helpful to you as a stylist?

Benjamin Reynaert: I I always tell any designer that I'm working with, I'm like, look, we're gonna be so tight. You cannot offend me. Nothing you say will offend me and I hope it's also vice versa. Because we were discussing earlier, it's like you really have limited time. And so you just want, I think it's important to be just open and direct. And if something's not working, it's like...

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Benjamin Reynaert: let's just make a new plan, like very quickly. ⁓ I think, you know, I'd rather I'd rather, you in a lot of cases, like I will just sort of say like, hey guys, like this is not working and for like, you know, and everyone's feeling it. ⁓ And think sometimes you just have to like move forward, slight, you know, be flexible, change directions. I'd rather ⁓ just start

Paloma Contreras: Yeah.

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Benjamin Reynaert: like, you know, scrap whatever it is that we're working on, if it's not working, to, you know, find the right moment, so to speak, quickly.

Paloma Contreras: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. say that to my clients too. I'm always like, you're not going to hurt my feelings. You know, please be honest. Tell me now before we move forward with something and it ends up in your house and then you're not a hundred percent in love with it. You know, you'd rather know at the onset.

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Benjamin Reynaert: Yeah.

Caroline Gidiere: It changes the energy too. If someone's sitting there thinking, hate those anemones, I hate those anemones, I hate those, I wish we weren't doing it, like their energy changes and then you lose the opportunity for the collaborative kind of ⁓ You're better off saying, we gotta lose those. Cause they just like, maybe they work great. ⁓ and for you to say, okay, we could, but here's what I think they bring to this and give you an opportunity to exchange your idea. ⁓

Paloma Contreras: the

Caroline Gidiere: Hmm. Okay. I hadn't thought of it that way. certainly, know Paloma, you're probably the same way. Like I really want, I really thrive and need other opinions on a photo shoot. I'm just like, tell me what your thoughts are. What do you see here? So we can get down to the bottom of what is the best that we can do in this room? You know?

Paloma Contreras: Yeah, for sure. I welcome that so much because during the design process, you know, it's you and your client agreeing on things and deciding on what's going to be the final product. But as a designer, like you're carrying the weight of what it's all going to look like the whole time. So then to bring someone in with fresh eyes and they're seeing things through a different point of view, ⁓ through their lens as a photographer or as a stylist who just is experiencing the space in a way that. ⁓

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Paloma Contreras: you aren't or you haven't, I I love that. I learned so much on every shoot that I work with. I mean, to this day, I feel like I'm always observing and seeing, you know, the way exactly. Yes. And I think that you, have to be open to that. You know, you have to have that flexibility and that humility to be open to what other people are seeing.

Caroline Gidiere: makes you a better designer.

Benjamin Reynaert: Yeah, absolutely. And I think too, it's really important. I always recommend making a very clear shot list together. ⁓ I like to propose a shot list. I like to know that certain rooms are like larger rooms are going to require like five to seven images. ⁓ Smaller rooms like the third guest room, maybe you even skip, you know, like maybe you don't need four guest rooms. And so ⁓

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Yeah, everybody said that. Mm-hmm.

Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm.

Benjamin Reynaert: I think that's really helpful. And shot list also in combination with the scouting shots, like it helps you to start thinking about like the cadence of the project. And I think it's really important from a stylistic perspective to understand like, how are you moving through the space ⁓ in series of photographs? You know, it's very different from kind of living in the space with like family. It's sort of like what

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Benjamin Reynaert: is important in this room to see how is this room connected to the next room. then what objects in the room and what objects that we're bringing into the room like help to kind of like tell a color story or, you know, I always ⁓ to see ⁓ colors are really important in a bathroom. And maybe that kind of comes into the living room somehow. that like, you know, when you're seeing a series of

Caroline Gidiere: help it. Mm-hmm.

Benjamin Reynaert: photographs and you only have a certain number really that you can kind of end up with in the end anyway like they're so important to kind of weave a thread through like from a color perspective or materials ⁓ it really helps to give you like more of a comprehensive package.

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. And then also, think I had one stylist who didn't get this, but your job is to ⁓ that next shot ready to go so that when we've got this one, they move the camera and it's go time. ⁓ you've got to stay one step ahead. You many ways have the hardest job on the photo shoot because you've got to be present here and set this up, but you've also got to be thinking the next.

Paloma Contreras: with.

Caroline Gidiere: three shoots down the line and what do I need to have ready here so when the light changes or we get the shot, there's no downtime because the time is so valuable.

Benjamin Reynaert: It is, and I think it's really important to give yourself some preparation time as well, even before the shoot, just to kind of like get some things ready, get ⁓ some those boxes unpacked, like ⁓ get few things placed in the space. My worst ⁓ nightmare is nothing's ready, the there.

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm.

Benjamin Reynaert: Like nothing can be shot. People are twiddling their thumbs. you know, I like to arrive and have already like several things

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. The stylist, hands down, when we're talking physical, preparation, ⁓ has hardest job on the photo shoot because they're the ones who are there early, that have to be there early, they have to stay late, and then they have to schlep. All this, the photographer has the lenses and the whatever, but then you have the whole world in your or...

Paloma Contreras: Yeah. I agree.

Caroline Gidiere: truck or whatever it is that you're doing that you have to carry in and carry out. Keep those flowers hydrated, you know?

Benjamin Reynaert: Yeah, I love a hulking bag. Yeah, exactly.

Paloma Contreras: Ben, are there any no-nos for styling? Is there anything that you're tired of seeing, anything that feels too contrived, anything that you would advise those listening, perhaps if they're tackling it themselves and they're starting out, what should you avoid in terms of styling?

Benjamin Reynaert: I have so many thoughts on this, you guys. ⁓ would, I'd love to not see like two glasses of wine being enjoyed like in a corner at a games table ⁓ ⁓ know, I think people get a little aggressive with like shoes ⁓ like kind of, yeah.

Paloma Contreras: We want your hot ⁓

Caroline Gidiere: Yay!

Paloma Contreras: Mm. Yes, the shoes by the bed.

Caroline Gidiere: the shoes in the bag.

Benjamin Reynaert: And I think, you know, I think just like when anything feels like kind of forced like that, I think we're kind of, you know, it's like the pendulum swings all over the place and, you know, what's, you ⁓ not interesting now, like will be again. But, you know, think things come and go. I think it's like, if you have a strong sense of your brand and your identity, like you'll know what makes sense for you, you know, like.

Caroline Gidiere: Sure.

Benjamin Reynaert: If you're a fashion designer that has segued into doing interiors, like maybe it's important for you to have some clothing and some other products your spaces or, you know, like it just kind of depends, but I think there's a few things like, you know, that ⁓ we do without.

Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love it.

Caroline Gidiere: Sure. Sure.

Benjamin Reynaert: if ⁓ it's looking too much like a catalog, then it's like you're kind of on the wrong path. the spaces should feel very natural and like it shouldn't feel super forced. and so I think too, that also that, you know, the, ⁓ like what's there kind of has to really be authentic. And, ⁓ I've told a few, ⁓ know, clients that, you know, this house isn't, shouldn't be photographed or like, you know, like I'll just be very clear and say like,

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. Yeah.

Benjamin Reynaert: this is really not ready to be photographed. Like these people have no belongings or like it's like there's not anything there. like you're gonna not be happy, you know, with what you ⁓

Paloma Contreras: Mm.

Caroline Gidiere: It's hard to hear, but great advice, you know, because it's way too expensive to spend the money and then look at the photos and be like, ⁓ this house wasn't ready.

Paloma Contreras: Yeah, definitely. Mm-hmm.

Benjamin Reynaert: Exactly,

Paloma Contreras: Well, Ben, you've given us so much great advice. Thank you so much. This is going to be so helpful to so many people listening. We're so delighted that we could spend time with you. Thank you, and congratulations on your beautiful book. Everybody go out and get it. It is the layered home inspiration for crafting cozy collected rooms, and it's out now.

Caroline Gidiere: Yay, I can't wait to get mine in the morning.

Benjamin Reynaert: Thank you guys. I really believe that our home should reflect us and the people that live there. So I appreciate the time today and it's so great to catch up and chat all things styling.

Paloma Contreras: Yes, hopefully we'll see you in real life soon.

Caroline Gidiere: Hey, I hope so. I want to meet you in person.

Benjamin Reynaert: We're going to make that happen.

Caroline Gidiere: Let's do it. Okay, thanks, Ben

Paloma Contreras: Thanks, Ben. Hi Caroline, how are you?

Caroline Gidiere: Hey, Paloma, I'm good. How are you doing?

Paloma Contreras: I'm doing great. How's your week been? Have you had a higher low this week?

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah, yeah, I had a high and that is, I went to my doctor for my annual and when I started with her six months ago, she told me I needed to gain six pounds, no, 10 pounds of muscle and lose 10 pounds of fat. No, it is not. Yeah, but also I was coming off of a year of.

Paloma Contreras: Well, that's no small feat. I feel like what do I do?

Caroline Gidiere: traveling, you know, I was probably in the worst condition because I'm like eating Chick-fil-A in the airport. anyway, I did start working ⁓ a more intense trainer, ⁓ on lifting heavy weights and add a creatine to my diet. ⁓ I'm happy to report I'm not there yet, but I have ⁓ ⁓ muscle mass and lost some fat. So I'm on my way. ⁓ I so

Paloma Contreras: Okay. Amazing. ⁓

Caroline Gidiere: I didn't want to get on this machine where they like everything and tell you everything about your body composition. Just of in the same way I was when I was pregnant. Like I don't want to get on the scale ⁓ anyway. ⁓ the was like, let's look at your body mass. And I was like, here we ⁓ But it a good, ⁓ good report. that's really never happened to me before. So I was very pleased. Made me ⁓ made it good week and a bad week. I just, ⁓

Paloma Contreras: Thank

Caroline Gidiere: I don't have anything to complain about this week. How about you?

Paloma Contreras: Yeah, no complaints here, thankfully. I guess, know, high would be... I I have felt such a sense of community, going, I love going to Margo's school in the morning and doing drop-off. ⁓ It's of my favorite parts of the day. ⁓ She's little, she's in pre-K four, so ⁓ I her in every day and she lets me. Some of her classmates get dropped off, mostly the ones with older siblings who I think feel a little bit more ready, or the older sibling will walk them to their little...

Caroline Gidiere: ⁓ yeah.

Paloma Contreras: locker in the hallway. But I just love it because time to connect and then after I've dropped her off walking back to the parking lot. I'll familiar faces and friends and you you say hi good morning and like it's just such a nice way to start the day. It's a little ray of sunshine and positivity.

Caroline Gidiere: Those are good times. As this year closes out, take a lot of pictures of her with her backpack walking in. Those are so special.

Paloma Contreras: Yeah. She doesn't carry her backpack. She's a diva and I carry her backpack. She's always like, it's too heavy. And I'm like, your friends can do it. So, you know, I've got to be a little bit more strict. I'm not strict at all. Just this morning, she was like, mom, how come when I go to the store with daddy, he doesn't buy me anything?

Caroline Gidiere: Okay.

Paloma Contreras: And I go, well, that's because he's more strict than I am. And then she wanted to know what stricts meant. And then he gave her some like wonderful explanation about how, sometimes if she's earned something, she'll get it. And we don't get something every time we go to the store. she was like, Mom, Dad said he's not buying me anything. And you're right. You're a lot kinder than he is. And I thought it was so funny that that's what she gleaned ⁓ those explanations.

Caroline Gidiere: It is though, watch out Paloma because you know, like Stephen was saying the other day, he was like, we're going to have trouble when this one is 21, you know, like in her taste and what she's, laying the foundations today. ⁓

Paloma Contreras: Yeah, no, I'm gonna be in trouble. I already am. Mm-hmm. And on her own. Yeah, that's why I've got to keep working. I'm so excited about our upcoming trip. That's so close. It's just around the corner. ⁓

Caroline Gidiere: Yay! I cannot wait. I'm so excited. I'm so, so, excited. We've got such a great group of people going on our chinoiserie tour of...

Paloma Contreras: Yes, and that all kind of came together by chance, the fact that we were all on this trip, which is amazing. Yes, absolutely. Total happiness.

Caroline Gidiere: happenstance. So good. I am going with my client and her mother and then just out of the blue, Paloma texted and said, hey, have you heard anything about this trip? And I thought you were asking me to like send you the link and you were like, no, I'm going, but I was wondering if you were going to. Then Mark Sikes texted and said, hey, I think we're all going on the same trip. And then turns out Bryan is going with one of his clients. So we're just going to have such a big, huge fun group. I cannot wait doing what we love touring beautiful houses.

Paloma Contreras: And now it's going to be amazing. Yes, we're getting access to a lot of houses in the English countryside that aren't typically open. Some of them are open to the public, but they're quite a few in the mix that aren't. And so this designer in San Francisco, Benjamin Dhong, put this trip together a couple of years ago and had a wonderful group the first time around. The trip was featured in Veranda and he's doing it again. And we're so excited to get an inside look at these wonderful beautiful architecture. And then of course, all of these original chinoiserie papers that

Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm.

Paloma Contreras: are in these homes and have stood the test of time and serve as the inspiration for so many of the things that we see in our day-to-day as designers.

Caroline Gidiere: Mm. For sure. I wait. I'm looking forward to it. standing me and the ⁓ is packing. we have chinoiserie this is, I mean, I you've got yours figured out, but like time is running out and going to be awake in the middle of the night worried about this chinoiserie ⁓ outfit that I'm supposed to wear.

Paloma Contreras: I it's a big task. Have you Googled images of the last trip? Because there's a out there of group that went last time, ⁓ Mary McDonald and Anna Brockway, who else? and his partner, David Kaihai, and his wife were on the trip, Michelle Nussbaumer. And they all had ⁓ fun outfits. Who it?

Caroline Gidiere: I really don't have any good ideas. Yeah. Ugh, this is making it worse, Paloma. Not better.

Paloma Contreras: No, know it's a lot to live up to. a lot of, I have no idea what to wear other than what I have for the Chinoiserie dinner. ⁓

Caroline Gidiere: We're down to the lick log as they say in the South. I mean, we're almost done with time here. I don't have anything. I literally have nothing that I can wear that's chinoiserie.

Paloma Contreras: Thanks. You know, I know. Well, I forget the name of it, but Anna Brockoway, the founder of Cherish, she mentioned she got this vintage, ⁓ can't recall what it's called, but the beautiful, traditional, ⁓ yes, like Chinese, Vietnamese dress with the mandarin collar and the beautiful buttons the shoulder, like something like that.

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. Mandarin? Yeah, with, okay, I was looking at one of those and I thought, that to, is this a costume or is this an outfit?

Paloma Contreras: So I did sort of like a caftan thing ⁓ with a, like a La Double J with a really pretty chinoiserie print on it. And that's going to be my interpretation. But I think you could do something like that in, I mean, it could even be like black silk pajamas, like, you know, with a mandarin collar. And you dress it up with like a great earring and a, you know, strappy sandal kind of thing, a good bag.

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. order it today. So pajamas, okay. Okay. Okay. What if I order an OB? I mean, could just, I don't know. I got to figure something out. I'm just ⁓ biting my nails.

Paloma Contreras: Yeah. Maybe less pressure in our group too though. Cause I feel like there were a lot of big designer personalities on the trip a couple of years ago and we're all kind of low key, you know, like, and that's not like a knock to anybody. love, I love the fabulousness of each of those people and you know, their style and whatnot. But I feel like maybe the stakes were lower for us because it's mostly, I think private, you know, collectors and then you, Mark and Bryan and I.

Caroline Gidiere: Yeah, we've got a much more low key group. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Paloma Contreras: And so we're really like designer girls. So we can set the bar for ourselves.

Caroline Gidiere: Mm hmm. Yeah. But I'm excited too, because we are going to maybe record an episode or two while we're there. So that's going to be a lot of fun on the road, the install on the road.

Paloma Contreras: Yes. ⁓ Yes, we're taking the show on the road, guys.