Friendship. Ep 26

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Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of four, an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hart Hunger. I'm a mother of three, practicing physician and blogger. On the side, we are two working parents who love our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both Worlds. Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals. We want you to get the most out of life. Welcome to Best of both Worlds. This is Laura, Sarah and I are celebrating and exciting Miles Stone for the podcast. Right as we're recording this in late January, we just crossed one hundred thousand downloads. Yay. Very exciting. And to clarify because my dad actually wrote in wondering what that meant. He's a super fan best of both worlds. No, he thought that meant per episode. No, we're not like there yet, will someday. That's total and we've recorded this is the twenty sixth episodes, so that averages out to more. We're now getting more than three thousand per episode. The most recent ones have been four to five thousand. Yeah, and it's true, like we'll get you know, some on the first day and then there's a bit of a tale, which is great because that means people are spreading the word maybe and telling people, hey, I heard this great episode and you should hear it too. So we really are very grateful to any of you who have shared our podcast in any format via Instagram or in real life. And if you have suggestions for us or topics you'd like to cover, I already got a bunch of great ones on my blog, but keep those emails and Instagram shout outs coming because we are open. We want to make this as good as it can be. Good as it can be. Yeah, we'll be speaking of our great community. We're talking about friendship today. So Sarah is currently planning what you're planning a trip with six girlfriends? Right, how's that happen? We are And actually this is a very off requested topic. People want to talk about how do you keep you, you know, your social life going. And we'll delve into that. But one group that I've been very you know, thrilled to maintain close ties with are my There are six of us in college that lived close by as freshman, and then as sophomores and beyond, we all like purposely shared either a house or a wing and a dorm. I went to Williams in Massachusetts, so shout out there. And almost every year since graduation we've gotten together, I would say, especially in the last five years or so, there's either been a wedding which has brought everyone together, or we've done a girl's trip in Chicago. We met at the reunion, so that was a natural one last year, and this year we're planning on a trip to the Pacific Northwest. One quirk to this group is that despite the fact that we are in our I guess you can say late thirties now and thirty seven your late thirties, I'm sorry to forty yep, it does. Only two of us have kids as at this point, and I'm the only one with kids older than the age of like zero, So that's a little bit unique, and maybe, as Laura pointed out, that's helped us to maintain our regularity because we don't have a bunch of school schedules to coordinate and all that. But it's been so rewarding to see these ladies every year. It always makes me feel so young, but like like I go back in time when I'm with them, but in like a healthy way, in a regression sort of way, and I get so much out of it. So I hope we keep this tradition going. Honestly forever. I could see us doing it as little old ladies, you know, rented out of B and B and Maine or something awesome. That is really so great to have that, and I would do I would agree with you, that is great to have people that you're friends with when you are young, but you're no longer as young and stupid, so it's like you could relate better you can. You know, nothing is as big a deal like you are all just more mature people. And yeah, and we now have all these different experiences to share, but we still have these sort of common memories, so I don't know, we never run out of stuff to talk about because there's always all the stuff that has common that we don't know about each other's lives, especially since actually I'm not that great about keeping touch with all of them on a very regular basis, So there's so much to share. But at the same time, there's those common memories that are always fun to rehash, and I don't think we'll ever get all. That's interesting that you have a specific group of six I mean, like you guys will possy to gather, you know, do you find your friendships have that element to it, like it's a set group for I think that's my only posse I don't have. I mean, I have friends here, local friends here. I have friends that I left behind in North Carolina. But no, this is the only like group that I can think of. Yeah, yeah, I you know, it's funny. I've never wound up with a specific group. I've had, you know, individual friends, some of whom kind of know each other, of course, but it's never been like a this is our four person group, or this is our six person group, or I mean I wasn't in like a sorority or any sports teams or anything like that, which I think is how some people wind up with a specific group or like their study group for their MBA or whatever it is that you know, there's a set group that you were in or not in. And like in U case, you guys were all in the same entryway, right, That's how you were. We were in neighboring entryways, but close enough yes, yeah, I'm curious at what point it became the six. I think it became the six honestly after probably our senior year, because the six of us purposely chose a house together, and it just became very clear that we were sort of this unit hanging out. And it's not that other people didn't, you know, join, or that we didn't have other additional friends. But I think the structure of having this little house where we all were together kind of sealed the deal. And then when we started to realize, you know, five years, ten years into things, that hey, we were all regularly wanting to get together and we'd have email chains and that kind of a thing kind of solidified it. We did also have a silly name, which I am not going to I know it. I will never I will never tell. It's funny, you know. I think that naming the group does something too to also cement it. I think you're right. I think you're right, because it makes it clear leg who's in, who's it. I bizarre memory, like I don't remember all that much from my first high school. You know, I went just my freshman sophomore year back in Indiana, many many many years ago. But I remember that these four senior girls took out an ad in the back of the yearbook my freshman year that was about the four of them. And they're four. The first initials of their name like spelled a word, and so that was the name for their group. And they had this with like pictures of the four of them doing everything. I was like, oh, that's an interesting thing, right, Like I've I you know, I'm I guess I'm never been a real group person. There's the introversion thing and then the sort of emphasis on one on one relationships, but it sounds fun. So hey, if anyone in the Philly area who is like initials match mine and want to make make a funny an introvert group, we will all like not hang out because we can't deal with large groups of people, but we'll see if it works, which brings us to the intro feeds right into it, like this is all the friendship episode. We get this question a lot. I mean, this is your blog. Readers ask about this all the time too, right, Yes, I mean I've heard it said somewhere like you can't can only choose family, friends and work pick two out of three, which would imply that you if you want to have family and work, which clearly as best of both worlds. That's our priorities, that we wouldn't have any kind of social life. But I have found that not to be the case. And I'm not saying that I'm some sort of party animal or that I have this the party animal at nine pm exactly, or that I have like an incredibly active social life, but I think I have a rewarding one, and so I and I think Laura does too, So we I guess we wanted to talk about how we've found the ability to make all three things work for us. And I mean we wanted to talk about different kinds of friends too. There's friends that are local, there's friends that are more you know, virtual or social media, and then there's more professional and personal intersections there. Yeah, and I mean they all have their place. I think one of the things that's you know, really helped me with trying to make all relationships, you know, a priority, like that category in my life a priority, because otherwise it would be a lot of you know, kids in work, is that when I am planning my weeks, I will consider that as a category and so try to say, well, what are my priorities within the relationship category. And sometimes it will be kids stuff. I mean, if kids have like a parent teacher conference or you know, I'm trying to get all four of them to the doctor for their annual checkups or whatever. But you know, it can also be then date night with husband and maybe like a friend thing too, or you know, trying to meet new people around here or do something with you know, my my friends, my kids friends parents, that's something more social with them. So that like what you just said there the kids friends parents like ding ding ding ding ding Like that has been the key to my real world friendships and social life as of late. In fact, I would say like nine times out of ten I'm having social time, it's either with someone I met through the school or you know, unless I'm talking about like that trip or some like big deal like get together with with long lost friends. If it's a local friend thing, it's a play date with the parents present, or it's even social time at a birthday party, or it's going out just as adults with people that I've met through the kids. So I think there's a huge area of intersection there that people. You know, if you're going to say family or friends. People kind of forget that they compliment each other really really well. They certainly can, and especially if you do have young kids, that may be a big chunk of your social life, which hopefully you find people that you like that you can sort of nudge your kids to liking the kids of people you do like, exercise your authority over play dates to nudge those to happen. And I've always thought the kid's birthday parties can be kind of fun that way that you are getting to socialize with parents. I mean, provided that the kids are doing something that they're getting entertained. Absolutely, and the more you get to know a specific group, the more fun it becomes over time. Like I'm not gonna lie, you sort of have to pay your dues when they're two years old and you've just gotten to know the class and they're sort of strangers. It's not that fun. But if you force yourself to do that, eventually you get to know them and by I've noticed that, For example, it's only now that my younger son Cameron like that his birthday parties have started to be fun because I know those parents more. Whereas we've been in a pattern where I've known my older daughters for you know, friend groups' parents for longer, so they're more fun. So the familiarity definitely helps. No, there's that thing. I mean, I think this has been studied and I can't but proximity and familiarity and the more times you see people like, the closer you believe your relationship is, which is sometimes very funny in this sense of like I can have an interaction with someone that I didn't think it went particularly well, and then you see them, you know, two more times at other conferences or whatever. It's like your old buddies. By the third time, it's like, yeah, I had nothing to do whether you actually liked each other when you first met. It's just that because you've seen each other multiple times over what comes to be years, it's like, oh, we clearly this person must be an old friend. So it's one of those funny things of human nature. But I mean, it definitely does work with that for kids stuff that the more you see these parents at the parties, and the more you see these parents that drop off, and the more you see these parents at school events or fundraisers or whatever, they become your friends just by virtue of being there. Yes, and as you get to know them better, you sort of figure out who in that group. And this sounds like so cold and calculating and it's really not. But who would be a good candidate for a closer friend? Yes, but no, seriously, Like I remember when we met Annabelle, my older ones, you know parents, you know the other parents. There were a few that seemed like, ooh, we seem to have a lot in common. And I would make the effort in part because I knew that I'm a lot happier if I am doing something social, for example, on a weekend where my husband is working then trying to do everything by myself. So I would preemptively email and say, hey, let's do a play date on Saturday. And in my mind I might be thinking, Okay, I don't know this person super well, but it's kind of like a trial to see how this goes. And in doing that, yes, it takes a little bit of courage, it takes a little bit of effort, but then it slides into effortlessness and real fun because some of those have been very wildly successful and are now some of my really good local friends who we go out and adults only dates and who you know, you really have that casual, comfortable relationship where you're really sharing things. And if I hadn't taken that first step, which again might sound like a little bit type A the way I approach it, I don't think that i'd be where I am. And I do have the experience of having moved somewhere totally different when my kids were very young, so I guess maybe that encouraged me to be proactive. Like maybe if I had lived here for a long time, I might have been like, eh, I've got my old friend group, but since it wasn't like that, and I think that's I mean, we moved to this community in Pennsylvania about Yeah, you guys were similar similarly moving when our kids were pretty little, four and two, and the third one was on her way and I was, yeah, it's it's big. You're you're more proactively social than I am. I think I probably have a harder time with it, But it was difficult in some ways because a lot of people grew up here. I mean, you meet people whose parents live around here and then they went to school here and they're still here, and that's wonderful for them. I mean, if you have that situation. I'm sure we do have listeners who have you know, stayed in the communities that they grew up with. And so you've made these great friends in elementary school. I mean, you're the people who are taking out the ad in the yearbook with your you know, four friends' names and you're all still together and that is awesome. That is like a recipe for human happiness to have the same friends in midlife that you have as a kid, like because they know you for you, like they don't know you for like oh, well, you went to this school or you went you know, have this job, or you married this awesome or not, or your kids are stars. Students are like total scripts, Like they're with you for a year and that's awesome. But it's hard to come into that as another person because you know, again they have their group of six, like you can't get in on that. So how do you approach it from that? And I think, well, what Sarah's talking about of proactively say well, who do I have something in common? Who might be willing to you know, and you got to try lots of people because some just aren't going to work out. I mean, that's the reality. It's making friends as absolutely, and when you don't have a whole lot of extra time, it can be hard. But that's the beauty of the play dates because you were going to be hanging out with your kids anyway. So if you're doing it while having an awkward conversation, perhaps made slightly less awkward by a glass of wine, then you know, how bad can it be? Exactly? But that same mindset of like combining things you're going to do anyway in order to get more social time in I think can be helpful. I know a lot of the people that I wind up spending time with is because we run together. Yeah, So I would throw that out there as a way to because you're probably you know, a lot of listeners to this podcast again are the kind who exercise a lot, and they're like, oh, I exercise four times a week, how can I get myself up to five? But you know, think about like, is there somebody you could take a class with, or somebody you could go for walks with or go on runs with or whatever it is that you do, because then you probably will see that person more often. I definitely think group exercise is less intimidating if you go with someone else who's also never done it before. Yeah, because you can feel like idiots together. Yeah, and even if it's a person you I don't know. I mean sometimes people have running partners or whatever that they wouldn't actually spend all that much time with outside of the running thing. You know. I've known people who've told me that about their running projects. They're like, well, we're great to spend miles together. And then it's a social thing. Probably it's not somebody they would, you know, see otherwise, but they have that and so that's kind of cool too, you know, people for different areas of life. Absolutely, So no social media stuff because a lot of i mean, hot topic, how does how do you think about social media with friendship? I don't find at this juncture it doesn't really play a big role in my friend or social life. Actually, there are some local community people that I guess follow me on Instagram, but because I'm not on Facebook, and because a lot of my friends who actually will comment on my post on Instagram don't even have active Instagrams of their own, it's more of a one sided thing. So that's not how I've kept things going. So I would say my role of social media is that I really have stayed out of it from a social perspective for the most part, and I realized that, you know, maybe an unpopular way of doing things. Although I just heard Manucho Sammarodi's take on the topic. You know, she's the host of the podcast that I Want a podcasts that I absolutely love called Note to Self on NPR, and she actually did the same thing, and she had some really kind of profound thoughts about it. She said that people were on Facebook because we're afraid of death, which is what you ever saying. But I think, yeah, I think what she meant by that is we're sort of afraid of acknowledging that stages in our life may be finite, and so we want to believe that we can keep doing everything all the time, so that you know, in your mind, if you think you know what's going on with all of your high school classmates, you've never left high school and you're still doing that. And if you think you know what's going on with all the parties, then you're you know, you're doing it all and you're not missing anything. But the truth is, if you're sitting on Facebook, you probably are missing on some things that are going on while you're sitting on Facebook. At least that's the case for me and some of those past lives that you have maybe better off in the past. And I do feel that way about myself, which again may sound tradictory, since I still stay in close touch with six of my friends from college, but really it's only those six. I do attend reunions, but I don't really spend a lot of energy worrying about the minutia of the other you know, four hundred and ninety four that were in my class. It was a small school, So yeah, I guess my my role of social media is pretty minimal. Yeah, I do email, and I do texts. Yeah, I say. We've heard shout outs from people for the idea of group text that that can be a fun way that some people stay in contact with people, especially who aren't aren't right there, like you're not seeing them necessarily a drop off or whatever. That you know, when you do something awesome and you want to share it with people, like you could post it on Facebook, but then you're sharing with like the eight hundred people you don't care about. There are six people that you do care about that you want to share it with, and So if there's these group texts that you know, you'll send it out and then you'll get six yay go you awesome confetti things back in the next twenty minutes and you'll be happy about that. You feel like you were cheered on even though they weren't right there with you to experience it. And that's like a virtual tribe. Yeah, I mean, they may not be there in person, but they're you know, that's a real group kind of thing. Do you do some of those or do you more individually text? Well, the only real group text guy I have going is my family, my parents, and oh that totally counts. Yeah, so sometimes well we'll get you know, especially my mom will sent text to the whole group or you know, pictures or things like that. So yeah, that's definitely a way to stay in tech with it there. I mean, you know, it's probably easier than phone calls because you're not going to call all six seven people and you know, loop them in on what's going on. I mean, probably should call your relatives at some point. But the phone. I don't like the phone. You don't like the phone either, do you? I don't really like the phone either, And in fact, my answer to your thing doing that in text is I still have friends that we have like email groups going. I have a group of friends that we all have kids right around the same age that I actually met through having infertility with my first and we like there's five or six of us that's still email from time to time, and it's not frequent enough that it's intrusive, but it's enough that I feel like I know what's going on with them that certainly could be done via text. I mean, there's nothing magic about the format, but we just use email. And I do have a few friends that I text one on one with, especially those with other young kids, so you feel like you can sort of write a little bit at the time and it's they're not going to be insulted if you cut it off. And I'm not big on the phone, but I do. I have, you know, a few special people that I that usually call me and I'm so and then once I get into the conversation, I'm thrilled that I'm having it. But I'm so bad about initiative. I will be honest, I have that too. I'm bad about calling. I just I don't know, I don't want it, and in person is so much better and you can feel the back and forth and all that. I just say, social media, I like that statement from a niche of like, yeah, that you don't want to acknowledge it some chapters your life for close, and I think it's sort of nice to know that you could reach people if you wanted to, which is the aspect of social media that is fun. But I think if you allow it to sort of dominate your your life, it's not a good idea. It's better for just a quick check in here and there, understanding that it's not really a substitute for those kind of closer relationships, either in person because you live in the same place relationships or the you know, consciously nurtured relationships that you have from other places. That and those ten I guess say those aren't really the ones that you check in on social media because those are the people you're texting, and those are the people you're emailing and calling like that's yeah, social media is less helpful for that. I think then, well, the problem is also that unless you really called your feed like, you don't have as much Yeah, there's not this most control over what you're seeing, so you're just as likely to see stuff from like your high school you know, random second period math partner than you are from someone that you care about versus text and email obviously selects for who is wants to contact you. And Minuja mentioned that she said, you know, if someone's yes, she's mis gatherings because there's been invites via Facebook, but this way she only gets invited to things that people actually really know her and want her at. And I was like, oh, that's very smart. Although I would say because you'd mentioned like the whole people you knew through infertility communities, there is that like if you have something specific in your life that you would like to meet people who are also experiencing that. So it could be that, I mean a kid with special needs, like there may not be as many people in your immediate community who are dealing with them that you would know, and Facebook groups are so awesome for that. I just addicting that I can't do it. Yeah, And so I would I would say, we don't want to like completely say oh social media not great, because yes, if you have something like that, that may be your best way to meet people like that, and then you can start moving some of those relationships into in person relationships, right, Like you can say, oh, you know, I'm going to be in Nashville because I have a conference, we should meet up and have coffee, you know, with with somebody that you know is from that area that you've met online. So that could be a way to sort of nurture those relationships too. Which so speaking of conferences, well throw out the idea that people you know professionally or through side husholds can also be your friends. Oh yeah, like real, true, real friends. I had to believe it or not. I became good friends with another pediatric endocrinologist who also was married to a surgeon, whose husband had the same name as my name, and who has three children basically the same ages and generous as my children. Well, her youngest was a little older than mine, but like I guess, we had a few things. Yeah, and it was wonderful to have her here. And you know, I wouldn't have gotten to know her if we didn't have that professional, you know, commonality. But when we got together, we talked half the time about you know, the latest guidelines for trutman of thyroid cancer and half the time about kindergarten. So it was amazing. Unfortunately, she moved away, but we're still in close touch. Yeah, that is the best where you can have those conversations that go both places. I like that. I mean it's certainly I've gotten to know some people through blogging that I've met in person. I mean, like you, Yeah, a couple other bloggers too, have you know, gotten to know locally or gotten to know when I've traveled different places. I've met up with people in Seattle and San Diego and Nashville, you know, and these are people that you knew originally necessary through posts they've done or comments they left on your blog, and then you know where they're from, and it's like, well, I wind up all over the place speaking if I know somebody there, I'm like, sure, I'd love to meet up with them. So that's been That's been pretty cool. And I bet you have. I mean I have other like endocrine friends that I did training with, or pediatrics friends that it makes going to those work conferences so much richer because it's, yeah, it's half work and it's half total play. You probably the same thing with like right, definitely, Like I mean, if I'm going thinking of going to a conference, I will look around to see you know, email a certain quantity of people I see if they're going right, because if I know they got back, and I know I'm gonna have a lot more fun. I mean, partly it is to be like, well, if they are going on, to make sure we meet up instead of like hoping we'll randomly bump into each other and like the giant Austin convention Center at south By Southwest, which is not going to happen. But you know, if I know they're going, then I will make sure that we have dinner or coffee or something on the schedule so that you get more out of that experience. And then hey, you know, you see the people like literally like five times in six years, and it's like your best buds because you know, yeah, no, And that's why that whole like pick two family work friends thing doesn't make I mean really, it's the lines are so much blurrier than that. But I think just by a great you know, reminding yourself that it is a priority and having the mindset that you do have time to have friendships in your life can go a long way toward helping you make tempy. This stuff doesn't necessarily happen at a certain time. Although you can like I mean, joining say a book club that meets at a certain time, or you know, if you have a group of three girlfriends that you always get together for dinner, you know, the first Thursday night of the month, then you know it will happen. I'm a big fan of these like sort of standing events for things like that, because then no one really has to plan it. You know what's going to happen, and your spouse and your or your childcare you know you'll have that, or even like your work might come to expect it like, oh, she always heads out early on that first Thursday, whereas if it's one off events, they're a lot harder to plan and they don't necessarily happen. Yeah, I agree, and I think, yeah, that is such a great thing about book club or those other rotating things. I was just going to mention book club, by the way, in the beginning, when we were talking about finding your local tribe, look for a book club, because then, worst case scenario, you get to read it's one of those two girls, two birds with one stones things, because you're going to expand your horizons that way, and chances are you'll find someone who had something in common with you because you've joined the same book club. So I though you have to find the right book club. That's true, that is true. This is why I have not found a book club yet. I think this is man. I wish I could joint I think you when I'm in would I put you on around here? That's like a serious reader book club, which I'll have to, you know, see if I can, you always start one you want to start your own. I'm thinking about starting a parenting book club where we do like a quarterly Actually, Josh is in on this too. We'll do like a quarterly meeting, invite couples and talk about some interesting book related to parenting. Yeah, okay, so other people in the Philly area who are interested in the book club send a note like we're gonna get a lot. I'm doing this episode solely because I need more friends, apparently, so please shoot me. You know, we'll do that, all right? Well shall we? Should? We go to our love of the week. Okay, mine has like nothing to do with any of this. It's fine. I'm gonna shout out my you know, weekly non sponsored shout out to rent the Runway. So if anyone has ever tried this, it's where if you have an event, you can rent your dress instead of investing in one. And I went to a black tie wedding last weekend and I, you know, rented the Runway and I got a really nice drapless gown that I then got to send back. Didn't have to worry about cleaning, spent a fraction of what it actually cost, didn't have to worry about the fact that it's not going to fit once I don't have gigantic you know anymore. And yeah, it was great. So I highly recommend rent the Runway. I highly recommend looking at Sarah's blog because she has a photo of her three almost four year old in the tucks and it was like the cutest thing ever. Oh my god, that was adorable. I did buy that tux, but it was much it was true. So my love of the week is slowly lengthening days. It is now getting dark after five pm, which is so much different from four thirty pm. Was driving my daughter to gymnastics last night and it was light when I was driving her to gymnastics, which is better than being dark when I'm driving to gymnastics, So I enjoyed that aspect of it. So yeah, that's that's my love of the week is the fact that winter is slowly stopping. Still we're still deep in it, but we're getting there, which brings us to our Q and A, which is, yes, winter activities. This is Do you want me to read it? I think, because I think I like your answer, so I'll read the question. Okay. And by the way, in addition to our answer, Laura wrote a recent great post on this, so I highly recommend when I do my Instagram thing. I mean, she will have to link to that post because it's a great answer as well. But here's the question. I'm one hundred percent down with planning to the degree that you advise. But our other big issue at the moment is that, for the life of me, I just cannot figure out any activities that are both kid friendly and also at least mildly interesting for the adults. By this point in our parenting journey, I am already so sick of the Zoo, Children's Museum, Crayola, et cetera. I used to enjoy them, but winter's here up north are so very long and cold that we've done all the indoor stuff a million times already. I do like kid birthday parties and chatting with the other parents, but they don't happen very often. It is so much easier in nice weather when we can hang out in the backyard, et cetera, that we all actually enjoy. Money is tight right now, and we've already done all the board game movie nights and baking projects I can stand. I feel like frustrated that I can't think of anything, but I'm completely at a loss. Is the answer to just suck it up With regard to the indoor play spaces I am so tired of already. I would love some more ideas if anyone has any. Yeah, winter is tough from that perspective. I mean, you live in a cold area. A lot of the stuff that you would do in spring, summer, fall is just you can't. I mean the outdoor stuff, the playgrounds. You know, you don't mind that as much, and you can't do it. And so what this reader is saying is you wind up in the same like any community has like two indoor play gems or something, and you wind up there again and again and again, and you hate them, and you know, you feel like you're spending your life looking at your phone every two minutes to see if possibly more than two minutes has passed, and then you know that like trying to keep children from throwing themselves off the bouncy house or whatever it is that they're doing, and that can really add to the like winter unhappiness, I think. So the way I kind of think about this it goes with our weekend planning in general, is that you're not trying to fill twelve hours a day because that's just horrible to even think about. Like you're trying to fill there's like four weekend slots, basically Saturday morning, Saturday late afternoon, Sunday morning, Sunday late afternoon, because if you've got little kids, probably your best off thinking, Okay, I'm going to come home early afternoon for either nap or just some downtime like screen time, reading time, whatever it is, like give everyone some quiet time, and then do a post nap event as well. And then by the end of the second you know the post nap event, you've like gotten through to dinner and like, hey, the day is over, so yay, break open the wine. So then you're trying to think, well, how can I put those four slots? And if you are like a member of an organized religion, Like already one of those slots wherever that happens to be is probably filled because you've got activities related to your synagogue or church or you know, whatever you're doing. So then it's it's you know three or four if you if you are not into religion, and so you just try to like make a long list of like anything in your area that can be done in the cold or bad weather. I mean, so if you think broadly, I mean, it could be stuff like maybe there are indoor exhibits at the zoo that you could go do, Like some of the houses are heated, so that could fill a morning. Or maybe your art museum has a kid's room so you can like quickly look at art for like twenty minutes before your kidnelts down and then wind up in the craft room. But that makes it mildly fun for you. Maybe we have like a couple of botanical gardens here have greenhouses, so we've gone to those because it's warm in there, like the library, if there's science museums, even if it takes like an hour to drive somewhere, like I would make a radius of like an hour around your house because even if it does take time, like it's the weekend, you're basically trying to fill this time. So who cares if it takes forty five minutes to drive there, because then that's an hour and a half that your kids are strapped into their seats and not going anywhere. So we've done that, Like the YMCA, we are big fans of that. The indoor pool because they had ours, has like water slides, which is just amazing. But that would consume like the whole late afternoon. I mean, by the time you get there, get in your suits, get in the pool for an hour, get out of your seats, and drive home, it's like two and a half hours past. You know, it's funny, I'm gonna interject because sometimes I have to resist the urge to hurry with that kind of thing, like getting ready and getting there. But if you still up back and you realize we're just really trying to fild this time up because like I don't even have to, then it actually doesn't matter how long your kids take to get into their bathing suits, because whatever, if they swim for a little bit less time, you're still you're running down the clock. And I hate to think of parenting that way, but sometimes it is a reality. I have definitely been there. Yeah, and you know, if it's we sort of watch the weather too, because not all cold is the same. Like if if the weekend weather is north of about twenty five degrees fahrenheit. We have oard international listeners who are like, huh, so, if it's north about twenty five degrees and it's like sunny and go outside, just put on your coat, your boots, your hat, and you can play outside for a long time at that level. But even if it's colder, you can go outside for like thirty to sixty minutes, and you know, maybe get a walk in somewhere if it's like, you know, we've got six feet of snow, but somewhere as shoveled, right, Like maybe it's a local university has paths shoveled. Our commercial shopping district, like you can go there, so you know, and yeah, don't rush because you are trying to fill the time, and you had some great I mean, you don't have snow, but like you've got rainy weekend. Yeah, it's funny because this is actually our time to get outside and do everything, and our summers tend to be you know, there will be days where it's just like pouring rain and thunderstorms the entire time. So that's sort of our version of this, or even like hurricanes, you know. And I made a little bit of a list. Well, first I want to mention your idea, which I am totally going to steal, which is the dollar store. That's brilliant. Give each kid three dollars. Okay, if you have four kids, that's only going to set you back twelve dollars. So and then that could take up I mean with my kids, that could probably take up the entire day. I probably couldn't stand it, but yeah, what a good cheap activity. And then you know, the totals will break anyway by the end of the day, so then you just dump them and you don't have the clutter. Yeah, and you've spent twelve doll I mean, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. So and then I had come up with, well, my number one is seriously band together, because when you have a friend and their kids, all of a sudden, it adds a new dimension to the toys that your kids are totally tired of, and it's so much less boring for you. And if you can combine it with dinner and kind of you know, make it a playful and fun atmosphere, then you know you've won. Basically. So play dates are my my my favorite. But also I've done the put a bunch of activities in a box and have kids pick, because somehow that just makes it more fun. I also mentioned the library because a lot of times there are free events and activities mandatory reading in quiet times. We haven't really done much of that yet, mostly because nobody can readoutely, not reading hard yet, but I greatly look forward to the days where that will be pleasurable for everyone. As we talked about increasing screen times, sometimes you know, I tend to be a lot more limiting than Laura does. In general. I think about this, but when it's just a nasty day, you might just want to give yourself the present and you can do different things in the sense of like movies are screen time if you think about it, like you take the kids to a movie and like, honestly you could like put your own headphones on not have to listen. Yeah, you could listen. I've heard of somebody saying I think I heard it on some podcasts of course, where they said, they listen to podcasts during the kids can heavy, so you're just sitting in the back like hanning them the popcorn like you know they can they can watch some in this you know teenage mutant whatever it is that they're watching. So so that can that can also you know, pass the time and I'll throw out the rainy day toy, which is something my kids have learned about. So you know, when you have their birthday party and they get a whole pile of presents, which is another topic for another day, you could corral maybe ten of them and they may not even notice, or if they notice, you could just say, this is what we do, and then you put them aside as rainy day toys that they can get one out if the weather is you know, a certain amount of you know, give them criteria and then you have this docpile that can pay off and dividends later. We even wrap them if you felt like it, rewrap them and then open them again. Fill all kind of time. All right, Well, this has been best of both worlds. We've been talking at friendship and uh then winter and rainy day activities. So please you know, we say we're celebrating one hundred thousand downloads. We'd love more ideas for topics. We'd love ideas for guests. We of course are interested in diverse backgrounds, diverse jobs, working situations, family situations, so please feel free to suggest people to Sarah or to me on our through our blogs, or you can email me el vandercam at yahoo dot com and we look forward to talking with everyone next week. Tune in then for a best of both worlds. Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at the Underscore shoe Box on Instagram, and you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the best of Both Worlds podcasts. Please join us next time for more on making work and life work together.