Lights Out in Madrid

00:00:14
Speaker 1: One two, one two. All right, we're getting it started. We are Hello, everybody, Welcome to the Rene Stubs Tennis Podcast. We are actually at my apartment, but we decided to take it outside because it is so beautiful here in New York today. It's about what seventy three degrees sunny, not a cloud in the sky, and I know how much that makes Caitlin very happy.

00:00:36
Speaker 2: Go Nay's outside. We decided, like you know, when you show up to class and you convince your professor to have class outside, that's what we're doing. We're having class outside.

00:00:47
Speaker 1: We have some very interesting and fun things to talk about going into the end of Madrid. It hasn't finished yet, and it's going to be prolonged even more because today literally the power went out. Can we talk about this for a second.

00:01:03
Speaker 2: It is so bonkers that in Spain and Portugal they just had like widespread I mean, I remember this happened in Naples a couple of years ago. Obviously, like you know, this doesn't happened infrequently in some birds of the world, but during a major one thousand tournament in the capital of a European nation, not you could have seen that kind not one nation do, but do newe eddos it does, it's bananas. My favorite quote about this power outage, yeah uh was Coca asked about what happened who she had finished her match thankfully, but she said, no power where the showers are? So I'm about to go take a shower and I'll let you all know how it goes.

00:01:46
Speaker 1: Have we heard from her since I don't know, Well, she did post Signs of Life, so I think she did.

00:01:50
Speaker 2: Did Cocoa make it out of the showers?

00:01:52
Speaker 1: Yes, Coco let us know. But speaking of Coco playing great, playing great, found her form, you know, But also she did this last week as well. You know, she was looking pretty good early, so you know. And look, a lot of people probably don't like the fact that I'm not hard on her, but I'm always sort of pointing out when things go badly. And the only reason for that is because I want her to win so badly. I want her to do well every week because I think she's so good for the game. Her positivity and women's tenters is great, and so it's always really hard to watch her sort of lose, but not lose in the way that you know, she lost certain matches in the past where it's been a great, terrific match and you know, someone's just been a little bit better on certain aspects. But sort of the things that fall apart the double faults in the forehands sort of really plague her in the last couple of matches that she's lost. So I just want her to get through a tournament, whether it's winning or losing the tournament, just having the weaker side of her game sort of stand up a little bit and have someone just beat her outright just being a little bit better. Yeah, which is a rarity because when she's hitting the forehand in and she's moving the way she was, like, for example, today, she looked great today. I mean she wasn't making any errors. Benchic had no Like Benchic relies on you making errors because she sort of like takes the ball so early and redirects the ball so beautifully and doesn't make a lot of mistakes herself, but doesn't have a lot of power. So when you're playing against someone like Coco, you do have to win us and if you're not really pressing her, you kind of toast. And we saw that today beautifully.

00:03:22
Speaker 2: The way I take your critiques of Cocoa Gough because this is certain that you described how I feel as well, which is you want to root for the kid. And so when I hear you talk about some of the shortcomings, it is as a coach. You talk about Coco as a coach, especially because when she has a lot of matches on her racket and there's something technical, there's something that's a shortcoming that can be worked on that's impossible for you to not point out. Yeah right, I mean it's like you're a doctor and you see a broken but.

00:03:53
Speaker 1: Well you fixed that. How many times have you heard people go, well, I was doing a TV show today and somebody actually wrote me and said, I have a nodule on my neck. And that's happened where people have actually discovered cancers or things like this because people have actually written to them.

00:04:04
Speaker 2: Doctor Renee is in the building.

00:04:05
Speaker 1: I am definitely not a doctor. Do not come to me for a nodule. Take that somewhere else. But yeah, I do. I come from a coaching standpoint. I come from a place that you know, I would like to see certain things change in her game. But then again, I'm not there and I don't know the work that she's putting in day in and day out, and I'm sure that they're putting in the work that's necessary for her. So I want to see her have the results because of that, because I know she works really hard on it.

00:04:31
Speaker 2: Let me ask you and other women's match a woman we've not talked about all that much, but somebody I've always really enjoyed playing and who's had some you know, playing ups and downs. Maria Sachari. Yeah, she's had a good couple of matches. She'd beat Paulini in the latest round. You know, she's somebody who has been a top ten player, back with her old coach, back with their old coach. What do you make of that? I mean, she's somebody for whom you know, it's sort of bath what has happened to her on court? For a lot of us who like your game or like your speed. You know, she's just losing a lot of winnable matches. I'd love to see her string it together. And as a coach, what would you say, you know is what you're seeing?

00:05:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think just a comfort level being back with Tom. I think that really does make a difference. She doesn't have to prove anything to him or he's not going to change anything. He's going to go back to sort of the things that worked with him before. With her, she's comfortable with that. She's comfortable with him, and I do think that matters. So when she's out there playing on the court, for example, she's not thinking, oh God, we know we should have been Oh I don't know if I should have worked on that, And it's just like this, Really it can work one way where it can have really quick success with a new fresh eyes sort of helping you get through a match or get through changing things, and you're excited about it, and you look at the results that a lot of players have had, like Peyton Sterns' is with a new coach, and she was with Tom and she was not having a good couple of months, and now she's again playing quite well with a new set of eyes telling me what to do didn't obviously work with Tom. And then Tom's found himself maybe out of a job, and then Marie is like, Okay, come back to me, because clearly you and I would you know, doing quite well together. So it's it is an interesting sort of juxtaposition with with what happened sometimes in the coaching world.

00:06:18
Speaker 2: I got to asked somebody by somebody a couple of days ago actually with regards to coaching changes, which is, how do we feel about Patrick Moradiglu coaching Name Osaka? And as you know, for for those of you who followed the name Osaka situation, obviously she's not found the kind of results coming back from motherhood that you know, it's hard to expect just because you know, you miss a step and all of a sudden it's uh, fitness and mental and all this stuff. You know, this is not her favorite part of the year anyway, No, but she has although she almost beat Eager last year. Remember in Paris last year, Oh my god, I totally forgot about it. In her early rounds she.

00:06:56
Speaker 1: Was literally the only one that pushed it. Well.

00:06:58
Speaker 2: Moveoever had a pretty good fun descent Fannet. But yeah, Patrick Moradiglu Naomi Osaka. She's posted about it, saying that she likes his positivity and he helps her believe in herself. But also, you know, which is all well and good, but also if the results aren't coming, it's kind of like, well great, but but what now?

00:07:19
Speaker 1: I don't know honestly how long he'll put up with it. As well. You know, he likes success, right, and so that's another interesting juxtaposition because yes, Naomi Osaka is a massive game name in the sport of tennis and clearly in the sport in the sport world. Yeah, a lot of people have heard of Naomi Osaka. So you just wonder how long he's going to sort of deal with that as well, and how long she'll deal with it. I mean, she has all the money in the world. She never has to work another day in her life. How much does someone like her want to put herself through this consistently on a weekly basis where she's not having results clearly, as you already pointed out, you know, clay has never been her thing. So maybe she's hoping to get some kind of confidence going into the hardcore, but still grass is not really her thing. Like how much can she It's going to be a while before she gets back at her whole tournament this week, coming into this week, which is interesting to see if she can get some confidence. I don't know how much Patrick Adam, you know, influence on her to do that. I think it's a smart thing because she's playing against players that are nowhere near as good as her going into a smaller tournament, so hopefully she can get a little bit of confidence there. We know that she can play well on clay because she pushed Eager. Yeah, you know, arguably the greatest player we've seen on clay in the last five years on the women's to her. So yeah, so it's just be continued to be.

00:08:35
Speaker 2: Continued on that. But it is interesting. People really do have questions and want to understand a lot of the coaching. You know, a lot of the coaching changes. I've been asked questions before like do you think it's good the coaches are my do you think it's interesting that we focus on coaches? And my answer is yes, the more interesting stories, the more interesting you know, ways to understand what's going on on and off court, the better you know. And sometimes we've had obviously tragic conversations which I think we're about to get tun us a little bit where some of the stuff that goes on with the coaching.

00:09:05
Speaker 1: Is is uh under.

00:09:07
Speaker 2: Intense scrutiny for good reason, Like with Elena Rebekna.

00:09:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, interesting with Elena going down to Switzerlina this week. I mean Switzelena hasn't lost a match on Clay this year. Now, boy, I tell you, you know, there's players that you root for, Like Maddy Keys was that player that everyone sort of rooted for and hoped won a Grand Slam in her career because she was arguably the best player that hasn't won a Grand Slam. Not that on her list anymore. That is gone. She is finally won one. I would argue that the next best player to not win a Grand Slam without question is Elena Switzerlina, Elena Switzelena for sure, you don't you disagree.

00:09:44
Speaker 2: I just don't like her.

00:09:45
Speaker 1: So I'm trying to say, what do you mean you don't like her? Why not? We're gonna is Ukraine gonna hate us?

00:09:50
Speaker 2: Now? I hope not. But I also just I don't. I don't love her game. I'd never have. I guess she's a good mover. You know, she's got interesting uh you know, counterpuntic skill. I like her off court, you know, gay On Manfis is one of the best fun personalities that's ever played on ante piture. I just don't particularly like her very much. So I'm trying to separate my own, but you need to separate. I don't like her very much with I don't like her tennis. I'm trying to separate that from your assertion, which is, is she the best player active who has not won a Slam? And maybe maybe no, without.

00:10:24
Speaker 1: Questions, she is the best player that on the tour currently that has not won a Grand Slam. This is somebody who's won. I mean, she won the tour finaleen dozen tournaments, She's won the WTA finals, She's been in, you know, so many latter parts of Grand Slam. She's beaten every single player that's won a Grand Slam over the last five to ten years. She's beaten them all.

00:10:44
Speaker 2: So certainly by record, you're making a compelling case. I think Macova's game is vastly superior to her.

00:10:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, but Mokhovah has not had the same. If I had to peak a career to have, there's no doubt I would take Suzelene's over Muhovah's at this present.

00:10:57
Speaker 2: If I had to pick a tennis game to have me too, I would pick mc Yeah.

00:11:02
Speaker 1: So we're not talking about from that person.

00:11:04
Speaker 2: Well, I'm challenging the framework of your question, which is, is she the best player to not have one a Slam? By record? Yes, by gamestyle. I would say, now she's a pusher essentially, Well, I mean it wasn't the Aki was a yeah, not won how it.

00:11:18
Speaker 1: Was technically a pusher. I mean, I wouldn't call either of them pushes. I would say they are counter punchers. There's a difference between being a pusher and.

00:11:24
Speaker 2: I'm using the words entertaining.

00:11:26
Speaker 1: You're going back to your junior days when you're having tortures the counterpunches.

00:11:30
Speaker 2: I have a hard time appreciating their Gamestyale, So I think that's I'm trying. I am trying to answer your question as objectively as I can by setting aside my bias and accounting for it.

00:11:40
Speaker 1: Your bias is showing through tremendous Well, that's why I'm acknowledged serve and volleyer and attacker and I was too. But I can also appreciate players that literally don't miss, and to me, someone like Lena Switzelena deserves to it. I really hope she wins a Grand Slam, and I think she can, but it has to come in the next year or two. I think her biggest fall was the at Wimbledon when she lost. I believe it was in the semi finals. Was that to wondrosover that year or was that in that We'll have to figure that out. But I remember seeing her after that match and she was devastated.

00:12:14
Speaker 2: Is that the match she lost to was that?

00:12:15
Speaker 1: Maybe she was up? I don't know if somebody's going to write to.

00:12:20
Speaker 2: Player not too rich to well, I've been in two slim finals, she should have won one of them.

00:12:27
Speaker 1: Well, Mouhovah's been in one slam final and a semi. I would say that's yeah. Again, we're talking about the last ten years of a career, and I think that for me, Switzlina is that player. Listen, we can argue forever, and we might and we we shall. Let's talk a little bit about the fact that Rebakina did lose that match to Switzerlina and her fitness trainer that used to be with her, who I believe may have been a lot of the reason that the WTA knew a lot of information because he left the camp and you just wonder he was very close proximity to her and how much you know, discussions would he have had with the WTA maybe in the future. And I'm going to go over to mir Andreva. You know why because mirror. Andreva is coached by whom can Chechen Martinez, and you know who used to coach Carolina Pushkova, China Martinez, and you know who used to be Carolina Pushkov's fitness trainer, Zula. So he has gone from putting the puzzle to pushover to Rabakina and now to Andreva. And for me, one of the reasons why I don't think Rabarkinas having the success that she's been having in the past is because she's not moving as well. And I think he was a big part of that. And I don't see her moving as well. I see her the confidence level is not there on her Suitelena is the type of player that makes you play a lot of balls and if you don't hit winners on her, you're not gonna win because she's not going to miss. And that's what we saw. And Bakina as well as not serving you off the court like she used to. Yeah, that first streake is really what her game was rely and frankly, in Madrid, where it's a little bit of altitude, the serve does work. It's why Covidiva one there one year big striking tennis. So if you're serving well, you're going to do well, and so it's a to be scene with Rebuccina how she handles going onto the grass, because clearly we know how well she can play at Wimbledon, but there is a lot of question marks there. We know with the coaching situation, we know with the training situation, like everything has changed for her. She didn't look super happy on the court. I worry for her like I always have. I've always had a soft spot for her because I think she's a great kid. I just think she's been led astray with with this whole coaching situation. I have been asked by a few people on Twitter today about the coaching situation of we're seeing more women and we are seeing Dinara Safina was going to bring that coming back into the picture with Diana Schneider.

00:15:01
Speaker 2: I love that Russian as well, Russian Lady Kamba, Russian Lady Combo. Dinara Safina, one of the greatest players ever on tour to never win a.

00:15:10
Speaker 1: Slam, never win a Slam, got to number one in the world Spetlana Kuznetsova in the final of the French Open in two thousand and nine, the year that Sam Stoza made the Semis and lost to speed Line in three sets. That's how I know that. And Dinara was a number one player in the world at the time. So this is a really interesting little add on. Of course her brother that happened. Did they do it too far? Did they say, hey, listen, if you're going to go, I'm going to coach. I don't know. It's kind of funny. I love it. And she's still in the tournament and she now goes up again.

00:15:42
Speaker 2: For those of you who are wondering who Diana Schneider is, because she's not somebody we're talking about on the the part very much. She is a Russian tennis player who played college tennis at NC State University, a lefty, and she kind of exploded under the tour. She wears that Babushka head rag, which I know she's gotten rid of it. She was wearing the Babushka head rag which Madrid and she is now playing.

00:16:07
Speaker 1: That's it. I think that's going to be an interesting match. It's just supposed to be played and over with now. But because the lights went out in Spain, they did not play. The lights went out in Spain, which I thought, but it is nice to see. So I'm answering one of the two of the questions that were sent to me on Twitter on the socials. I do love the fact that there are a few more women starting to get there, you know, themselves back on the tour as a coach, and that makes me happy because we can relate to you, guys. We can relate to you, and I think that's one of the reasons why Sakary is doing better again with Tom is that she's comfortable with him. And I do think that women are more comfortable with women. Look at Andrevel with Kanchi.

00:16:48
Speaker 2: I don't know that it's always a gender issue, but I definitely can say, having had lots of men coaches and lots of female coaches, the approach to athletes is almost uh metrically opposed. And again I'm speaking of my own experience, probably having twenty coaches. You know, the men typically are much more critical, they're much harsher. They have, at least at the time, really sort of coached with the methodology that you know, men get motivated by anger and fear and anxiety and women get motivated by positivity and encouragement. I don't know anybody who would prefer to be motivated by anger and anxiety. But also, you know, I definitely know that the female coaches I had were vastly different in their approach and it was a lot more of a collaboration, and so maybe there are some gender components of this, which is why I'm always really happy even when it happens. You know, Emily Maresmo was obviously coaching Andy Murray, but also coached Luca Pully, another French person. Like just this idea that like there's not a the female coaching perspective can really be super additive, which is why I keep hoping that you coach a dude.

00:17:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would like to coach a guy. Actually, I think you know who I have one for you. I feel like, Sasha, are you saying.

00:18:00
Speaker 2: Felix, because when I saw him lose to Surrenderlo, who you know does a good player?

00:18:06
Speaker 1: Dude? I've never seen a worse serve on a dude in my life that Felix. The guy looks like he's about to trip over.

00:18:11
Speaker 2: I care so much about Surrenderlo, but why is Felix losing matches that are winnable? And that's kind of been happening for the last couple weeks.

00:18:19
Speaker 1: Have many a theory of Felix. I will keep it to myself because we know that these stupid websites that take one line out of what I say on a podcast and make it a fucking headline. And as Petko always says, fuck you for doing that. But I have a few theories. I will say one that I just think he needs to relax a little bit, Like I really do think he's so uptight sometimes and I would love to see him be a little bit more free flowing and use his athleticism differently. And yeah, there's a few things about him.

00:18:47
Speaker 2: He's such a beautiful mover, and he's such a he's got theoretically like a nice game. He kind of prowls around the court like cat. But he's so tense.

00:18:56
Speaker 1: He's so tense, you can I just I just want to yeah, things of a like to do.

00:19:00
Speaker 2: It, but anyways of people that you should go.

00:19:03
Speaker 1: One thing that I do want to discuss, and I was watching Madrid today before the lights went out, and did we didn't need the lights because we have the sun. These tennis facilities that build these fucking stadiums, okay, where they have roofs or things that go over it and don't think about the sun. And it was also asked of me on Twitter. It was one of the things that was asked to me about Madrid's tournament, possibly knowing what a horrible viewing experience the shadows make during the day. Sid thanks for the question, but it was actually on my list to talk about. It's so annoying you cannot watch the tennis on television. It's like the US Open. The US Open has less bad shadows, it absolutely does. But the issue remains, which is I think it's a the Caja Mahica, the Magic Bucks as it's known in UH Center Stadium, and you know what Andi Roddict used to call it, the Chipotle Stadium. Chipotlet way felt like a Chipotle in there. It's so hideously ugly.

00:20:01
Speaker 2: Not only not only the shadows, which are terrible, I think the way that they've built the roof is such that it obviously only has a tiny, tiny part of the sunshine in which is why the shadows migrate across the court during an afternoon match, which is a terrible viewing experience. Certainly, in UH is there a way to build a roof that's like see through glass probably. I mean, look at Louis Armstrong Stadium. That's a real testament to how great a stadium can be built. Even wait, did you just say, oh, Louis Armstrong just one of the world stadiums in the world, is also a terrible stadium, not only because of the shadows, but the way that those boxes are set up that people look like they're sitting in a.

00:20:41
Speaker 1: Chipotle d m V. Like, wait, next time you ever woke into Chipotle, which I never delayed better looking than Chipotle.

00:20:48
Speaker 2: It's terrible, as me guess and my bloating, and it's last week you made everyone listen to peeing. Let's just keep it PG. I just think architecturally Spain has some of the most amazing, especially Madrid. What on earth were you thinking? Have we done that this is the main stadium for the main tournament?

00:21:07
Speaker 1: Did they not know that the sun goes east to west and this is how it's set up? So dumb it's done such a bad experience on television to.

00:21:16
Speaker 2: Watch, to have to watch, which is why I again say, if you're gonna do it, just bring back to Blue Clay. But what I would love to see, especially because we hear it's for sale. Is whoever buys Madrid next moves it out of does something, does something different, moves it out of the the Chipotlai Stadium. Yeah, it's a beautiful stadium.

00:21:36
Speaker 1: But I mean as far as like size and everything and that, Yeah, it's the facilities.

00:21:40
Speaker 2: It's an incredibly important sporting nation. Spain has contributed. They're they've over indexed given how small a country are there, and they're kind of like the checks. It's like, yeah, they're you know, some of the greatest places in the world have come from there and their marquee tournament is its yeah.

00:22:24
Speaker 1: For me, Okay, later, let's talk about the biggest story. One of the biggest stories, of course from the Vitria is our friend Alex Zverev, who we have clearly talked about quite at nauseum through the years. But he was correct. He was correct in this situation. This ball was so far out that he took a photo of it and put it up on Twitter and an Instagram for the world to see how far this ball was out. As soon as the ball bounced, it was I'm sitting there, I'm like, yeah, the ball's out, and I was like, wait a second, what now I want to set this up, okay, because it was a it was a very big point in the match. He was he'd lost the first set. He was trying to get.

00:22:57
Speaker 2: Back in again and Salad a sperious.

00:23:01
Speaker 1: Player in Spain. Not an easy task and he's such a good player. And this ball was out. It was clearly out. The ballmark showed out. There was no other ballmark around. Sometimes you can get the ballmarks confused, no other ballmark around, and he's begging the umpire to get out of the chair, which he knows he can't do. So I guess the question is can we have the umpires get out of the chair? No, because you know, like the ATP and WT have said, like if we start doing that, for one, everyone's going to want you to jump out of the chair because there has been Evelise also took a photo. Hers was a little bit more ambiguous. I wouldn't say for sure that ball was out, but.

00:23:36
Speaker 2: Helenka took a photo the other day of a ball that was clearly touching the line.

00:23:43
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:23:43
Speaker 2: I mean, I think what we're actually talking about is does electronic line calling on clay work. There has been a lot of controversy about this because unlike hard courts, unlike grass courts where the lines are painted on the ballmark of clay skids, it tends to move, and for whatever reason, it's way, way, way more open to interpretation. And I suspect what happened here is the same way that the ball machine, the ballmark machine, would be off by I don't know, an inch in every direction. It's taking away line space on one side and giving it in line space on the other. I'm not an engineer. I don't know, but it does raise a pretty creatical issue, which is like, how could this egregious of a of a call be made?

00:24:35
Speaker 1: I don't know.

00:24:35
Speaker 2: I don't know what the answer is. I will say this, I don't miss the days where they came down and like just sort of I will say I balled it. That wasn't good TV and didn't seem that convincing when the line judges did look at it.

00:24:45
Speaker 1: People can argue with me on this issue, and there is no blanket statement on this, but the one blanket statement I will make as a forma player and somebody that had good eyes I did. I did. I made from pretty good line calls when we had the electronic line calling and we had to challenge and things like that. It's a bit of a joke with the umpires. Humans make mistakes all the time. Line calls are often wrong from time to time on in matches, umpires make really bad calls when they come down and they look at a ballmark. I've had it happen to me many times where I'm like, what the fuck are you looking at? I am looking at the same mark as you, and you're saying it's out and I'm saying it's in vice versa. Right, you can have that argument all day long. This was an absolute, pure mistake by the machine that guess what happens all the time in the human world. Now here's the thing. That same mistake or that same call might happen to your opponent the next game, right, So you know in a lot of ways that electronic line call is going to fuck it up, maybe the same way the next time around. So it's even Stevens whereas a human might interpret it one way or the other, and might I don't know. I wouldn't say that they like a player more than the other. So maybe you know a Roger Federer is going to get a call a little bit more over, some guy who's a qualifier. Could it happen? Probably has it happened.

00:26:07
Speaker 2: One hundred percent anytime there's subjectivity involved, subjective stuff gone.

00:26:11
Speaker 1: On, would I have lost my mind? As of o Zverev apps fucking lutely. But the difference is that it's not a human error. It's a calibrations issue probably with the machine that they can fix, and it's going to happen to your opponent more than likely in the same match. So I am a little bit less pissed off at the electronic line calling in general, because I just feel like it's there's no human error on that, and I feel like it's happened through the years so many times with human error that I preferred this. It wasn't a mistake. Absolutely, Could he go on about it. He did, and he had every right too, because the boar was definitely out. But I just feel like electronic line calling for me, will always be the best way to call balls, agree, period and a story. So whether it got it wrong, it did, but they can calibrate it and move on, whereas with a human error, you know, you see it all the time, then the umpires get a little bit unsure. The linesmen get a little bit panicky. They start making How many times you see a linesman make a mistake and then two games later that same guy makes the same mistake, and then you finally like you look over there as a player and you're like, oh, he's gone. They just get rid of him, yeah, you know, and then they replace. I don't miss that. I don't miss that at all. That's why I like the electronic line calling. Somebody else asked me a question about any more thoughts on updated news on the US so mixed doubles our top players embracing the idea of playing. Yes, they are.

00:27:30
Speaker 2: Remind us what the structure is for a mixed doubles, because I think it's exciting.

00:27:36
Speaker 1: Well, instead of playing in the second week, which is when you start playing mix, usually by the end of the first week, oh usually Thursday, maybe of the first week, you start playing mix, and it's just a little bit too much of a grind for the singles great singles plays to play singles doubles or even singles and mixed. Particularly the guy's playing best of five. So they decided to play the mixed doubles before the US Open starts. In the qualifying week fan week, so it's fan week, which listen, I'm okay with that. I'm okay with that because I think it's a great because it gets packed in qualifying week, it's packed now it's become a real thing to go to. It's like free tickets basically, so you're going to get great atmosphere out there, which I like. And as a player that played you know, singles, doubles and mixed and then predominantly doubles and mixed in the latter part of my career where I had my success, it would have been nice to have those crowds all the time. And they do love the doubles and mixed because most players that are recreational players play doubles and mixed doubles, so I think they get a great bang for their buck that week. The one problem I have with it is this best first of four sets that I hate. I am hearing there's a lot of top players that are going to play a lot great and so I think that's great because it's good for them because they're getting matches before the tournament starts in singles. So it's a it's a really interesting concept and idea, and I don't dislike it. My issue is the first to four, first to four. They're playing first to four games.

00:28:57
Speaker 2: It's just four games, Yeah, that's the match or what's the point of that.

00:29:02
Speaker 1: They want the sets to be quicker? Okay, so I think it's best of three sets, first of four games, okay to win the set. So I forgets the three all I guess they're playing a tie break. That's what I'm hearing.

00:29:12
Speaker 2: And wasn't there something interesting about the qualification, like who gets to be a team? Aren't they prioritizing singles singles ranking the doubles rankings? So it does.

00:29:22
Speaker 1: If you're number one in doubles and your number one is singles, your number one, and then you add who you're playing with.

00:29:28
Speaker 2: So like a player such as Bethany Maddox Sands who plays a lot of mixed doubles but does not play singles well, and.

00:29:34
Speaker 1: He's not a great example right now because her ranking is so low in doubles, I think she's dropped down.

00:29:39
Speaker 2: Question.

00:29:40
Speaker 1: Let's say a daniel A Nicole Mellica who's a top the top twenty in the world. Now, might she miss out playing with somebody twenty in the world in doubles. If two players in the singles or every singles player top twenty plays, yeah, she will miss out.

00:29:57
Speaker 2: So yeah, so there are some winners and losers, which kind of what I was getting at. Yeah, but you're okay with that.

00:30:02
Speaker 1: I like, I'm not against the week before. I think it will be a great event, but I'm just against the scoring system. That's I love.

00:30:09
Speaker 2: Really, I love doubles, and I love the idea that the fans will get something up close and personal. And you know what, I have my own very sort of proto fascist way of dealing with making doubles and mixed doubles popular. But I think people watching it is a good thing, and I like the idea that the US Open is is experimenting there.

00:30:30
Speaker 1: It's it's a malleable situation. We'll see how it goes, and if it's a success, then we might see a few other Grand Slams. But you do have some insight in for that the top players. I'm hearing a lot of top players are going to play, so it'll be a lot of fun for the Carlitos now Carlitos Coco, that'll be great. Just put it out there, or Carlos and Emma Radicano, Carlos RADICANU just lost a joke. We did get asked a very interesting but also a bit of a ridiculous question. What do you think about the apparent rigged or algorithm driven draws in the WTA? What you make it? The same matchups over and over, Coco benchic Eger and noscover mate. Let me just say, Paolo Paola, Paola Castro, that's not it doesn't happen. Are it's cooled? Lot?

00:31:13
Speaker 2: Are people? Is this a conversation that people have?

00:31:15
Speaker 1: Let me tell you how this works?

00:31:16
Speaker 2: But wait, wait, wait is it? I just want to understand the premise of the question. I do are people on the internet saying that draws are rigged?

00:31:22
Speaker 1: Well, some people do think that. Some people do think that.

00:31:25
Speaker 2: And let me just have you ever in your thirty plus years and the tennis who are ever seen or heard anything that would indicate like, hey, actually this so and so needs to move to this right?

00:31:37
Speaker 1: No? No, like this is this is what happens the four seeds or actually sometimes.

00:31:46
Speaker 2: Twenty four seeds.

00:31:48
Speaker 1: Hole please, okay, So what happens is sometimes they do it electronically or they just put it in the machine like at the Grand slams now and they just pop it out right. But like on the WTA Tour for example, often not always, but most of the time, you'd literally put two like what do you call them ping pong bars? Yeah, ping pong balls, or you know, I don't even know what you call them chips like with the number on it, one or two, like a casino chip. Yeah, you put the casino chip and you put one is always on top, two is always on the bottom, right, then you put What happens is you put three and four into a bag and then you have somebody a player. They asked players to come in, and most players like, fuck no, I'm not doing the drawer. Like people run away from the day because they don't want to have anything to do with it. They're like, no, I don't want to. I don't want to know who's in the.

00:32:39
Speaker 2: Drawer because you would know, because you would know the drawer. I feel it could be fun.

00:32:43
Speaker 1: You get to sometimes the random doubles player will be like, I'll do it because they know. They're like, yeah, let me do it, right. So you go in and you literally put your hand in the bag and pull out a number and if three comes out, three goes to the top, so three ghosts to the bottom of the top half of the drawer.

00:32:58
Speaker 2: The seeds being placed is just and then four just gets put on top right of the bottom half of the drawer, which is why, unfortunately, over the last few Grand Slams we've seen like Sinner and Alcarez be put on the same side of the drawer because Sinner's one and Alcarez keeps being fucking three. Yeah, so there's two things that it seems like we need to address here with Pola's question number one. And it's unclear whether Paula understands this or not, but in case anybody doesn't, seeds get placed. Seeds getting placed is based on ranking, with the exception of Wimbledon, who places their own seeds best seeds, grass or.

00:33:31
Speaker 1: Performance, but seeds get ranked, So three and four are always top or bottom. And then it goes five, six, seven, and eight get put into it again into a bag and you pull out. Whatever number gets pulled out gets placed on the top of the quarter final section up the top right. So that's how it goes. So you put four in and they get drawn out independently and they go into the thirty spots in the drawer.

00:33:54
Speaker 2: Anybody doesn't know every tournament from your local, you know, community, to USDA juniors to international tournaments to Grand Slams. Placing seeds is part of it because you protect and give advantages to the people who have a ranking or a preferred status. That's why you want to be seen, which is why you want to be seated, which is why the rankings do matter. And then everybody else is just the draw.

00:34:16
Speaker 1: Then what happens is once the seeds get picked, literally every other little chip goes into the bag and you just pull and you pull and you pull.

00:34:23
Speaker 2: And this is either happening literally or metaphorically with a computer. But either way, I have never seen there's no any And if people keep playing each other time and time and time again, maybe they're Maybe it's fate, Paula, did you think about that.

00:34:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fate. And it's it is funny how you can play on tour for like ten fifteen years and never have played one certain person and then you're playing or are you playing one person all the time. It happens all the time, all the time. Yeah, but it's random, it's totally roundom it's just unless you're in finals every week, luck case, or you're going to clear everybody. Yeah, like eagishron Tech, Yeah, is going to be in a lot of matches because she's in a lot of swindler. No, it's a joke about Egan Ostapenko. Keith Onland asked what is causing all the ups and down play? Basically one wins a one thousand and goes out first round. I mean talking about Anissimova, Jack Draper, of course, Ostapenko recently wasn't one thing.

00:35:11
Speaker 2: That's just tennis.

00:35:12
Speaker 1: That's just tennis.

00:35:13
Speaker 2: Man.

00:35:13
Speaker 1: It's hard to back it up. Sunshine double is really hard to do. No one's ever, not very many people have done it. Anissimova, of course, you know, had a terrific win over in the Middle East, and then she's gone up and down with some injuries. Ostapenko plays indoors, very different surface, very different conditions, goes to Madrid, losers, it's altitude, it's very different, completely probably different balls. It's really hard to win and do back to back.

00:35:39
Speaker 2: Also, like you're you know, at the end of the day, you're talking about a bunch of human beings. Like I think when people and this is sort of. We've been talking about this a lot in my household because of the basketball players that are going on. As much as they try to ignore the basketball playoffs, can't help but talk about basketball around this time, especially if the next you're still in at which my wife is very thrilled that they are so like, you know, because.

00:36:00
Speaker 1: Man, I got so lucky yesterday. That was such a foul. That was such a foul.

00:36:04
Speaker 2: They should not have won yesterday's game. But the better teams on average win more because they play best of, best of, best of, and the you know, in a lot of these team sports, you know, the better teams usually do win. What's fun about tennis is like sometimes the better player loses. Sometimes the player who wins more of the total points still loses. Sometimes the player who shouldn't have a shot because of something that's gone on, you know, in an individual sport, like the results results can vary. And I think that's like, to me, such a that's such an ad But I also get that people, you know, you just have to learn a lot of new names and just get excited, which.

00:36:38
Speaker 1: Brings me to the next question. High on Tennis do a deep dive about the climate, surface and which players have more of an advantage over the others. So that's an interesting way to think about it. And I do want to get to Novak after this question, because usually most players that are sort of malleable on all surfaces, I would say sable Anca eager to a certain degree, and the men's game obviously through the years, Roger Rafa, they adapt and they're so.

00:37:04
Speaker 2: Good, and that's what makes them good.

00:37:05
Speaker 1: And that's what makes them so good.

00:37:07
Speaker 2: Anybody can play well on their favorite surface on a great day when they're feeling great. But the champions figure out how altitude, ball, surface conditions, mental stuff. They bring it all the time.

00:37:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, it just depends on the way you hit the ball. Do you slide well on clay, do you move well on grass? I mean, Roger's perfect example, and Novaka being able to move on all surfaces. They've adapted on all surfaces. Serena adapted to all surfaces. Her serve was so big she could win so many free points on any surface at any time.

00:37:38
Speaker 2: I think about that a lot when it comes to Sablanca and Serena, which is just some players have such an imposing game that they can make I mean yes, they are also making adjustments. But Sabalanca is playing an offensive game as is you know, Serena Williams on every surface regardless of you know, but players who are a little bit more CounterPunch oriented have to do something different.

00:38:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, they have to adapt a little bit more exact in some ways. In others they don't miss a lot. So you still have to beat them. You have to hit the winners against them, a Switzlena for example, or it was Niyaki or a hallop. You know, they're gonna run you down. They're gonna run balls down. They're gonna make you come forward on a fast court, and if you're not willing to come in and be aggressive, you're gonna lose against a play like that if you play them on clay.

00:38:23
Speaker 2: I do think it is worth mentioning.

00:38:24
Speaker 1: Though.

00:38:24
Speaker 2: One of the things that I don't love about the surface conversation in today's tennis is just how same a lot of the surfaces have become. Because it used to be very play was slower, grass was faster. There used to be a regular amount of tournaments on carpet, Like imagine if there was a carpet slam. I loved stephie Graff would never have lost.

00:38:46
Speaker 1: A match on.

00:38:48
Speaker 2: Martinez. She loved exactly fast courts. And so for me, the results of yesteryear where you see a Richard Krachek in a late stage of a grass tournament or the bear cetags and you know, Spanish clear court specialists and Thomas Muster and stuff, they're less so because the game has optimized so much for this kind of I think samness, Yeah, which is not you know, it's not a critique so much is just I missed the random, you know, like, well it's clay season and let's see if someone are random is going to win the friends chibn Yeah, and they probably not going to have add a lot of the time.

00:39:19
Speaker 1: A question that was posed to me about Nolay, about Novak's body language and press conference quotes and tactical issues, et cetera. We talked about this last week, Caitlin. He's on the worry index. He's still on the worry index. And I'll tell you why. And I don't know if I told you did I tell you this story about his interview that I did with him a couple of years ago, and that year, so when we talked about it right, And there was something about the way he answered that that it triggered something in me that went, oh, oh, I think he's kind of sort of over this a little bit, and not like overplaying and over the notoriety and over the clap you know, of the crowd. And I mean, the thing that's really hard to let go of as a tennis player, especially someone so great as him, is the adulation and the love of what the people are getting from you, which is unreal tennis. Like, my god, there's nothing better than winning a twenty five ball rally and sliding and you know, hustling and grinding and winning that point and having that adulation. Oh my god, there's nothing like it. It's like legal addiction.

00:40:18
Speaker 2: Right.

00:40:20
Speaker 1: But at some point, your age catches up with you. The grind catches up with you, the packing your bags catches up with you, the being away from your family catches up with you, and at some point that shifts your mindset a little bit. In the grinding moments in matches of eh, do I do I really want to like hang in there today? Do I really want to like run that one ball down today? And your mind is saying yes, But your entirety of your mindset and body and practice and your thought process. More importantly, your thought process is not locked in. Do you and I just think he's lost his locked inness?

00:41:00
Speaker 2: Do you think given that we've compared a lot of this year's nola to last year's nolay where he seemed not bothered by losing a lot, and his his in retrospect, his crystal clear focus.

00:41:15
Speaker 1: On was the Olympics.

00:41:16
Speaker 2: The Olympic title that had eluded him felt like a foregone conclusion, Like he was like, Okay, well, I kind of don't care how this year goes, because I have one goal and I've accomplished all the other ones, and I'm going to make sure that this one goes. Do you think it's different from this year? From what you've seen?

00:41:32
Speaker 1: The thing that I think is different this year is that he was absolutely, as you said, singlely focused on winning a goal, and he talked about at most obvious and he played so freakin' well. And I think there's a little bit of a flame that was distinguished. Boom, after that was done. It was extinguished, thank you, It was just extinguished. It was gone. Yes, it was like, okay, what do I have to prove now zero, he has nothing to prove. The only thing he has left, and it's the only thing he talks about, is winning one more Grand Slam, to have twenty five Grand Slams and have the absolute ultimate record.

00:42:06
Speaker 2: I mean, he already has a record, Margaret Courts record is not real.

00:42:09
Speaker 1: Well we know this, but yeah, Serena really really wanted twenty five, you know, but she didn't get it. And does it define her, No, of course not. She's still the greatest female player of all time, you know, and arguably the greatest player of all time. Novak now is sitting in that same spot, and I think the only thing that drives him is maybe winning one more And I could see him literally doing Pete Sampras and dropping the mic and being like, I'm done. But having said that, Caitlin, it's not that easy to win a Grand Slam anymore when you're not even winning fucking matches at regular tournaments in best of three sets against these guys. Come on, do you think if he were going to win one more Wimbledon Wimbledon? I think so. I think the clay He sort of said it in the press conference. He's like, you know, I'm hoping to obviously do well in France. I don't know Verbet and what he said, but it was sort of insinuated. Eh. I know I'm not playing well enough on clay, but you know, he knows how good it is on grass. He's a best grasscore player and Wembledon champion over the last fifteen years. And the guy that's beaten him twice in two finals is still there. So is he going to get past him? I don't know, but he's probably hoping that he has a great day again like he did at the Olympics last year. And maybe maybe maybe, But I don't care who you are. When the plaque starts getting on the brain and you're not winning those matches, it gets harder and harder.

00:43:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, one week's time will be the beginning of REALM brings back with it Yannick center Chao yah, Nick Yannick. Let's see what that ends up being. There's already a lot of press. He's gotten some shoutouts in Berg today. Everyone's sort of allies on. I mean, thankfully he's back, Like, honestly, you're excited for me to be back.

00:43:47
Speaker 1: I'm happy he's back. It's shit that he was put away for three months because come on, you guys know how I feel about it.

00:43:55
Speaker 2: We've talked about that before. But what we have not yet talked about, which I would like to but I am not yet prepared, is I think we should talk about the Carlos Alcoraz documentary.

00:44:04
Speaker 1: I have not seen it yet, but you will. I will watch it. We did get asked about it on Twitter on socials about what I thought about it, but I haven't seen it.

00:44:14
Speaker 2: I would love for us to have a discussion involving the audience. So if you watch it, okay and you have thoughts, questions, follow ups, concerns.

00:44:24
Speaker 1: Some people have written me about it, so I'll put a little list together.

00:44:27
Speaker 2: Let's make a list and we'll do a Madrid rap Italy preview and a Carlos Alcarez documentary. What I've seen looks exciting. I'm excited to watch it. It looks interesting. Netflix Spain did it.

00:44:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, it'll be interesting, and that's one of the that's interesting of the Madrid on them, which is interesting.

00:44:43
Speaker 2: Yes, Netflix Spain having done this as opposed to Netflix US. Netflix US did breakpoint, and I suspect there's probably a little bit of a directional artistic difference.

00:44:54
Speaker 1: Oh interesting, Okayflis.

00:44:57
Speaker 2: Did an Argentina documentary a couple next with Netflix. Argentina did a documentary a couple of years ago about the famous tennis player who never got to number one, who maybe should have from Argentina, and it was it was better than I can't remember his name, which is why I'm not mentioning it. But it was better than things that I've seen out of Netflix US always like Yama villasms. Oh wow, he never got to number one, right wow? He was like Ruffa before Ruffa. Right, so he was just good on stories that are not so obvious. I think maybe Netflix US, certainly the Box of Box production was super corporate and not very good.

00:45:30
Speaker 1: So maybe this will be well, we'll see, we will cry. I know there's a lot more questions. I'll get to you back to you Ale on socials and answer them as much as I can, but we've only got so much time to talk about stuff. Who do you think Caitlin before you leave is going to win Madrid Men's and Women's.

00:45:46
Speaker 2: Why don't we just go with Coco go off? Oh well, I kind of love for Coco to win it. Okay, all right, Coco and Men's. I am tempted to say something kind of crazy. Both of these would be crazy. So I'm going to take as my answer, what about Kaylor Fritz klalor Fritz.

00:46:04
Speaker 1: I don't think I don't think that's a bad choice. Actually, there, Madrid is a good, big service. Do well. No Carlos because he pulled out right because of the injury. Hopefully he's okay going into Fritz. I've got two Americans. I'm just gonna leave it with that.

00:46:21
Speaker 2: I'm not going to say all right, I'm not going to say, well, see how I said back, see how you did.

00:46:28
Speaker 1: But anyway, all right, everyone, thanks for joining us today on the outskirts of my apartment. We have been enjoying the sun.

00:46:36
Speaker 2: Bye bye,