Nobel predictions and humorous encounters with physics laureates

1
00:00:07,839 --> 00:00:10,800
Hello, and welcome to the Physics World Weekly

2
00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:11,300
podcast.

3
00:00:11,759 --> 00:00:14,855
I'm Hamish Johnston, and I'm joined today by

4
00:00:14,855 --> 00:00:15,595
my colleague,

5
00:00:15,974 --> 00:00:18,074
Matin Durrani. Hi, Matin.

6
00:00:18,774 --> 00:00:21,015
Hello, Hamish. How are you doing? Yeah. I'm

7
00:00:21,015 --> 00:00:23,515
not too bad and I'm getting very excited

8
00:00:23,814 --> 00:00:25,515
because, of course, next week,

9
00:00:26,500 --> 00:00:29,140
the Nobel Prize in Physics is going to

10
00:00:29,140 --> 00:00:31,620
be awarded. And so, the in this podcast,

11
00:00:31,620 --> 00:00:33,780
we're gonna have a little chat about the

12
00:00:33,780 --> 00:00:36,679
Nobel Prize. We're gonna put through some predictions,

13
00:00:36,899 --> 00:00:39,320
which, of course, we will get completely wrong.

14
00:00:39,545 --> 00:00:40,844
And, we'll also talk

15
00:00:41,304 --> 00:00:44,265
about Nobel Prize winners that we've met in

16
00:00:44,265 --> 00:00:47,145
the past. But first, this episode is brought

17
00:00:47,145 --> 00:00:48,284
to you by SmartAct.

18
00:00:48,984 --> 00:00:51,244
Elevating high precision positioning,

19
00:00:51,704 --> 00:00:52,204
metrology

20
00:00:52,825 --> 00:00:53,645
and automation

21
00:00:54,189 --> 00:00:55,890
to empower your breakthroughs.

22
00:00:56,590 --> 00:00:58,369
Shape the future with

23
00:00:59,070 --> 00:00:59,570
technologies.

24
00:01:07,594 --> 00:01:09,995
So, Matin, first, I thought we'd, we'd go

25
00:01:09,995 --> 00:01:11,375
through some of our predictions

26
00:01:12,075 --> 00:01:15,194
for, next week's Nobel Prize. And and shall

27
00:01:15,194 --> 00:01:17,194
I start off? Well, I mean, you've over

28
00:01:17,194 --> 00:01:18,875
the last few years, we've got this amazing

29
00:01:18,875 --> 00:01:19,375
infographic

30
00:01:19,834 --> 00:01:20,075
that,

31
00:01:20,635 --> 00:01:22,474
contains a list of all down the one

32
00:01:22,474 --> 00:01:24,500
side, it's the list of subject areas that

33
00:01:24,500 --> 00:01:26,500
the prize has been awarded to. And it's

34
00:01:26,500 --> 00:01:28,739
a graphic that kind of maps, year by

35
00:01:28,739 --> 00:01:31,219
year, different areas. So you've been, looking at

36
00:01:31,219 --> 00:01:32,900
that for quite a few years, and it

37
00:01:32,900 --> 00:01:35,780
seems like there's one field that is ripe

38
00:01:35,780 --> 00:01:38,325
for being awarded this year. Yeah. That's right.

39
00:01:38,325 --> 00:01:40,325
I mean, listeners, this is a bit of

40
00:01:40,325 --> 00:01:40,825
numerology.

41
00:01:41,525 --> 00:01:42,025
Basically,

42
00:01:42,484 --> 00:01:43,685
you know, I sort of look at the

43
00:01:43,685 --> 00:01:44,745
numbers, and

44
00:01:45,125 --> 00:01:46,424
I try to decide,

45
00:01:47,204 --> 00:01:51,444
the gaps in years between Nobel Prizes being

46
00:01:51,444 --> 00:01:51,944
awarded

47
00:01:52,439 --> 00:01:53,659
in specific fields.

48
00:01:53,959 --> 00:01:57,479
And according to my, chart, which, you can

49
00:01:57,479 --> 00:02:00,280
see, on the Physics World website, there seems

50
00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:02,679
to be about a 5 year gap on

51
00:02:02,679 --> 00:02:03,179
average

52
00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:06,615
between different disciplines. So you remember, Matin, that

53
00:02:06,615 --> 00:02:09,735
last year, we managed to predict 2 out

54
00:02:09,735 --> 00:02:10,794
of 3 winners

55
00:02:11,175 --> 00:02:13,354
by focusing on those gaps.

56
00:02:14,055 --> 00:02:15,915
There hadn't been a winner in atomic,

57
00:02:16,294 --> 00:02:18,314
molecular, and optical physics

58
00:02:18,629 --> 00:02:19,129
since

59
00:02:19,469 --> 00:02:19,969
2018.

60
00:02:20,310 --> 00:02:22,729
So we predicted that Paul Corkum,

61
00:02:23,030 --> 00:02:25,449
Ferenc Krauss, and Anne Flouillier

62
00:02:25,990 --> 00:02:29,209
would win for their work involving ultra short

63
00:02:29,430 --> 00:02:30,409
laser pulses.

64
00:02:30,814 --> 00:02:34,014
And sure enough, we were right. Well, sort

65
00:02:34,014 --> 00:02:36,034
of right. Krauss and Louwelier

66
00:02:36,414 --> 00:02:38,194
were the winners in 2023.

67
00:02:38,814 --> 00:02:39,634
And unfortunately,

68
00:02:40,334 --> 00:02:42,194
fellow Canadian, Paul Corkum,

69
00:02:42,495 --> 00:02:43,634
was passed over.

70
00:02:44,250 --> 00:02:46,969
Now this year, I'm focusing on the 7

71
00:02:46,969 --> 00:02:50,009
year gap since the last prize was given

72
00:02:50,009 --> 00:02:51,709
for condensed matter physics.

73
00:02:52,009 --> 00:02:53,789
And I think that this field

74
00:02:54,090 --> 00:02:57,224
might just be the award winning one this

75
00:02:57,224 --> 00:02:57,724
year.

76
00:02:58,264 --> 00:03:01,004
But before we talk about some potential condensed

77
00:03:01,064 --> 00:03:01,965
matter winners,

78
00:03:02,264 --> 00:03:04,125
I'm going to go out on a limb

79
00:03:04,264 --> 00:03:06,504
and suggest that it might be 2 years

80
00:03:06,504 --> 00:03:09,004
in a row for atomic, molecular,

81
00:03:09,305 --> 00:03:10,685
and optical physics.

82
00:03:11,030 --> 00:03:14,170
So my first prediction is that Lina Howe

83
00:03:14,389 --> 00:03:15,290
of the Massachusetts

84
00:03:15,750 --> 00:03:16,969
Institute of Technology

85
00:03:17,430 --> 00:03:20,170
is going to win this year's Nobel Prize

86
00:03:20,230 --> 00:03:22,250
for her work on slow light.

87
00:03:22,629 --> 00:03:24,710
This is a a trick, well, it's not

88
00:03:24,710 --> 00:03:26,170
really a trick, it's physics,

89
00:03:26,525 --> 00:03:29,405
Where you can fire light into a gas,

90
00:03:29,405 --> 00:03:30,705
an atomic gas.

91
00:03:31,004 --> 00:03:33,104
And you can slow it right down.

92
00:03:33,645 --> 00:03:35,724
And then you you make a change to

93
00:03:35,724 --> 00:03:38,044
that gas. And you can speed it up

94
00:03:38,044 --> 00:03:40,525
again. So it's almost like you can store

95
00:03:40,525 --> 00:03:42,860
light in a gas. And, you know, that's

96
00:03:42,860 --> 00:03:45,340
an amazing thing. And I think there's some

97
00:03:45,340 --> 00:03:48,860
amazing physics in that. So Lina Hao, that's

98
00:03:48,860 --> 00:03:50,780
my first pick. Because she's she's been on

99
00:03:50,780 --> 00:03:52,620
quite a few of these prediction lists. I

100
00:03:52,620 --> 00:03:54,379
mean, I'm looking back even 10 years ago,

101
00:03:54,379 --> 00:03:55,520
she was on lists,

102
00:03:55,844 --> 00:03:58,084
particularly as a, you know, an outstanding female

103
00:03:58,084 --> 00:04:00,185
researcher and one person who should win.

104
00:04:00,724 --> 00:04:02,084
But, yeah, she's on the list been on

105
00:04:02,084 --> 00:04:03,844
the list for quite a while. It wouldn't

106
00:04:03,844 --> 00:04:04,805
surprise me, but,

107
00:04:05,364 --> 00:04:07,604
over the years, Hamish, I've I've nothing surprises

108
00:04:07,604 --> 00:04:09,349
me about who wins the prize. It's quite

109
00:04:09,349 --> 00:04:11,189
hard to predict, isn't it? You know, some

110
00:04:11,189 --> 00:04:13,430
are nailed so it's only rarely is it

111
00:04:13,430 --> 00:04:15,349
a nailed uncertainty. And I think the Higgs

112
00:04:15,349 --> 00:04:18,230
boson was the 1 year in 2013 that

113
00:04:18,230 --> 00:04:19,669
you were pretty sure that was the one

114
00:04:19,669 --> 00:04:21,430
that was gonna win it. We almost got

115
00:04:21,430 --> 00:04:23,205
it right last year. We picked 2 out

116
00:04:23,205 --> 00:04:25,125
of the 3 winners. But, yeah, it is

117
00:04:25,125 --> 00:04:25,865
very difficult.

118
00:04:26,324 --> 00:04:28,645
And and so, condensed matter, that's my my

119
00:04:28,645 --> 00:04:31,305
next field that I think might be in

120
00:04:31,685 --> 00:04:32,165
for,

121
00:04:32,884 --> 00:04:35,080
for a Nobel Prize. And and this one

122
00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:36,920
is is a slight cheat. I mean, I

123
00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:38,060
think both of these

124
00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:42,139
physicists are, strictly speaking, are condensed matter physicists.

125
00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,160
But they tend to work in the field

126
00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:45,980
of optics.

127
00:04:46,595 --> 00:04:47,634
And those are,

128
00:04:48,035 --> 00:04:50,935
John Pendry of Imperial College London

129
00:04:51,394 --> 00:04:52,294
and Federico

130
00:04:52,915 --> 00:04:53,415
Capasso

131
00:04:53,794 --> 00:04:56,134
of Harvard University in the US.

132
00:04:56,435 --> 00:04:57,574
Now John Pendry,

133
00:04:58,194 --> 00:04:59,175
is a pioneer

134
00:04:59,555 --> 00:05:03,490
of the mathematics that describe how metamaterials

135
00:05:04,430 --> 00:05:04,930
manipulate

136
00:05:05,389 --> 00:05:05,889
light

137
00:05:06,189 --> 00:05:07,649
and other electromagnetic

138
00:05:07,949 --> 00:05:08,449
radiation.

139
00:05:08,829 --> 00:05:10,430
And, you know, he's come up with some

140
00:05:10,430 --> 00:05:12,769
some great ideas, like, for an invisibility

141
00:05:13,069 --> 00:05:13,569
cloak,

142
00:05:13,955 --> 00:05:15,895
manipulating light so that something

143
00:05:16,514 --> 00:05:18,915
disappears. And, you know, people sort of pooh

144
00:05:18,915 --> 00:05:20,514
poohed that when he first came out with

145
00:05:20,514 --> 00:05:23,235
the idea. But, you know, these have been

146
00:05:23,235 --> 00:05:23,735
built,

147
00:05:24,275 --> 00:05:24,775
particularly,

148
00:05:25,395 --> 00:05:26,615
operating from microwaves.

149
00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:29,060
So he was a mathematical

150
00:05:29,439 --> 00:05:30,979
pioneer in that field.

151
00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:32,259
And Federico

152
00:05:32,639 --> 00:05:33,139
Capasso

153
00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:35,060
has actually built

154
00:05:35,439 --> 00:05:36,419
lots of metamaterials

155
00:05:37,199 --> 00:05:40,019
that do some amazing things with light.

156
00:05:40,464 --> 00:05:42,725
You know, for example, making flat lenses,

157
00:05:43,105 --> 00:05:46,644
which are really, really useful for modern technology

158
00:05:47,264 --> 00:05:48,004
such as

159
00:05:49,264 --> 00:05:51,345
mobile phones. Because, of course, you want you

160
00:05:51,345 --> 00:05:52,564
want a really high quality

161
00:05:53,024 --> 00:05:55,685
optical system in a mobile phone. And normally,

162
00:05:55,745 --> 00:05:56,040
that

163
00:05:56,759 --> 00:06:00,040
requires a certain thickness. But Capaso and his

164
00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,360
team have come up with ways of making

165
00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:04,779
very, very thin lenses using metamaterials.

166
00:06:05,319 --> 00:06:08,060
And they're actually commercializing it as well.

167
00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:09,399
So, yeah, I think,

168
00:06:10,045 --> 00:06:13,564
Capaso and Pendry double bill is another one.

169
00:06:13,884 --> 00:06:15,824
So what about Umatine? Have you,

170
00:06:16,205 --> 00:06:17,725
who who do you think might win this

171
00:06:17,725 --> 00:06:19,964
year? Well, I think Capaso and Pendry is

172
00:06:19,964 --> 00:06:21,404
a very good shout, Hamish. I mean, they've

173
00:06:21,404 --> 00:06:22,764
been on our list for quite a while.

174
00:06:22,764 --> 00:06:24,525
And I I know Capaso is still doing

175
00:06:24,525 --> 00:06:25,199
amazing work.

176
00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:28,420
We we see papers that he's still, publishing.

177
00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:29,759
You know, I'm not quite sure how old

178
00:06:29,759 --> 00:06:31,520
he is, but he's, you know, very, very

179
00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:33,300
active still. So that's a good shout.

180
00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:36,720
The other topic that we thought Hamish that

181
00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,120
was quite likely might win is, you know,

182
00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:40,580
this whole area of twisted

183
00:06:40,964 --> 00:06:42,725
Oh, yeah. That's a good one for condensed

184
00:06:42,725 --> 00:06:44,485
matter as well. So that is condensed matter.

185
00:06:44,485 --> 00:06:45,845
So that's the idea. You have these very

186
00:06:45,845 --> 00:06:47,145
thin carbon sheets,

187
00:06:47,524 --> 00:06:49,605
but you you have 2 layers, but they're

188
00:06:49,605 --> 00:06:51,925
misaligned in terms of their molecular structure by

189
00:06:51,925 --> 00:06:52,824
a certain angle.

190
00:06:53,444 --> 00:06:55,670
And, that was one of our breakthroughs of

191
00:06:55,670 --> 00:06:57,689
the year. And I think was it 2018?

192
00:06:58,069 --> 00:07:00,230
You basically got this new platform for exploring

193
00:07:00,230 --> 00:07:02,470
all sorts of exciting condensed matter physics.

194
00:07:03,270 --> 00:07:05,430
And the person who led that work was

195
00:07:05,430 --> 00:07:09,430
also MIT, and that's, Pablo Gerilo Herrero. Hope

196
00:07:09,430 --> 00:07:10,365
I've got his name right,

197
00:07:11,404 --> 00:07:13,245
who has sort of stacked these sheets together

198
00:07:13,245 --> 00:07:14,365
and done a lot of the great work

199
00:07:14,365 --> 00:07:16,204
in that area. So that's,

200
00:07:16,764 --> 00:07:19,324
if that wins, that's quite unusual because that's

201
00:07:19,324 --> 00:07:22,044
quite recent work. And it's not always that

202
00:07:22,044 --> 00:07:23,849
the Nobel Prize goes to work that's done

203
00:07:23,849 --> 00:07:25,449
in the last couple of years, but you

204
00:07:25,449 --> 00:07:26,729
never know that could be in with a

205
00:07:26,729 --> 00:07:29,529
shout. But I know from, your chats that

206
00:07:29,529 --> 00:07:31,209
you've had with the people who award the

207
00:07:31,209 --> 00:07:32,729
prizes, you know, we know that they do

208
00:07:32,729 --> 00:07:35,069
it very rigorously, and often prizes get nominated,

209
00:07:36,810 --> 00:07:38,889
numerous times. And I think that plays a

210
00:07:38,889 --> 00:07:41,104
a role in which prizes get awarded. And

211
00:07:41,104 --> 00:07:41,604
sometimes,

212
00:07:42,225 --> 00:07:43,745
you know, people like Peter Higgs had to

213
00:07:43,745 --> 00:07:46,144
wait sort of 50 years before, his prize

214
00:07:46,144 --> 00:07:48,164
from the work he originally did. So

215
00:07:48,865 --> 00:07:50,625
that might be in with a shout, perhaps

216
00:07:50,625 --> 00:07:52,464
less of a shout because it's quite recent

217
00:07:52,464 --> 00:07:55,910
only because of that. But certainly twisted Graphene

218
00:07:55,910 --> 00:07:57,910
is, yeah, one area to keep an eye

219
00:07:57,910 --> 00:07:59,930
on. Well, that's enough about the future, Hamish.

220
00:07:59,990 --> 00:08:01,430
Over the years, me and you and the

221
00:08:01,430 --> 00:08:02,870
rest of the physics world team have met

222
00:08:02,870 --> 00:08:04,970
all sorts of Nobel Prize winning physicists.

223
00:08:06,150 --> 00:08:07,595
So you've got a story up your sleeve

224
00:08:07,595 --> 00:08:08,894
about about Bert

225
00:08:09,194 --> 00:08:11,694
Brockhouse. Do you wanna remind people who

226
00:08:12,074 --> 00:08:14,735
Bert Brockhouse was? He's a Canadian, wasn't he?

227
00:08:14,875 --> 00:08:17,295
Yeah. That's right. So so Bert Brockhouse,

228
00:08:17,834 --> 00:08:20,095
I think was the first Nobel Laureate

229
00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:22,479
that I ever met, and this was years

230
00:08:22,479 --> 00:08:22,979
before

231
00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,139
I joined Physics World.

232
00:08:25,439 --> 00:08:27,360
And, you know, in in the run up

233
00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,220
to every Nobel Prize, actually,

234
00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,000
I think I I think back to that

235
00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:33,394
day. It was in 1994.

236
00:08:34,334 --> 00:08:36,674
And, I had just woken up in Hamilton,

237
00:08:36,815 --> 00:08:39,954
Ontario, which is sort of a, an industrial

238
00:08:40,014 --> 00:08:40,514
city,

239
00:08:41,294 --> 00:08:44,735
just outside of Toronto. And the CBC News

240
00:08:44,735 --> 00:08:45,475
came on.

241
00:08:45,870 --> 00:08:48,509
And the announcement was that Bert Brakhos had

242
00:08:48,509 --> 00:08:50,529
just won the Nobel Prize for Physics.

243
00:08:50,990 --> 00:08:52,509
And at the time, I was doing a

244
00:08:52,509 --> 00:08:56,429
PhD at McMaster University. And Brakhos was a

245
00:08:56,429 --> 00:08:57,570
professor emeritus

246
00:08:58,105 --> 00:08:58,845
at McMaster.

247
00:08:59,384 --> 00:09:01,384
And so there was an instant connection. And

248
00:09:01,384 --> 00:09:03,225
I was very excited because, you know, I

249
00:09:03,225 --> 00:09:04,745
was I was about to go into the

250
00:09:04,745 --> 00:09:06,745
physics department. And I knew that,

251
00:09:07,225 --> 00:09:09,965
you know, that there would be joyous mayhem

252
00:09:10,105 --> 00:09:11,980
when I got there. But I also had

253
00:09:11,980 --> 00:09:13,539
a bit of a a bit more of

254
00:09:13,539 --> 00:09:14,759
a personal connection,

255
00:09:15,299 --> 00:09:17,379
I would say. Because a few years earlier,

256
00:09:17,379 --> 00:09:18,279
I had spent

257
00:09:18,659 --> 00:09:19,480
some time,

258
00:09:20,100 --> 00:09:21,480
at the Chalk River,

259
00:09:22,019 --> 00:09:22,519
laboratories,

260
00:09:23,379 --> 00:09:24,839
sort of a national laboratory

261
00:09:25,220 --> 00:09:25,959
in Canada

262
00:09:26,475 --> 00:09:29,115
in the neutron is it the neutron physics

263
00:09:29,115 --> 00:09:31,914
branch or the neutron science branch? I can't

264
00:09:31,914 --> 00:09:34,394
quite remember the name. But that branch was

265
00:09:34,394 --> 00:09:34,894
founded

266
00:09:35,355 --> 00:09:37,774
by Bert Brockhouse. And he won

267
00:09:38,075 --> 00:09:39,375
the, 1994

268
00:09:39,754 --> 00:09:41,855
Nobel Prize for his work on,

269
00:09:42,449 --> 00:09:45,589
inelastic neutron scattering. So he was a pioneer

270
00:09:45,730 --> 00:09:48,949
in using neutrons to study the dynamics

271
00:09:49,730 --> 00:09:52,709
of solid materials, essentially bouncing neutrons

272
00:09:53,169 --> 00:09:53,829
off atoms

273
00:09:54,209 --> 00:09:56,629
and working out their vibrational modes.

274
00:09:56,995 --> 00:09:59,335
That's what, that's what Brakhos did.

275
00:10:00,035 --> 00:10:02,195
And that was a fantastic day. Yet,

276
00:10:02,675 --> 00:10:04,455
I remember going into the university,

277
00:10:05,554 --> 00:10:08,195
and the physics department. And just as I

278
00:10:08,195 --> 00:10:09,014
came in,

279
00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:11,460
Jules Carbot, who is,

280
00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,620
unfortunately, he's since passed away, but a theoretical

281
00:10:15,759 --> 00:10:17,539
physicist who studied superconductivity

282
00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:20,339
came skipping down the hall.

283
00:10:20,639 --> 00:10:23,039
And, as I passed him, he punched the

284
00:10:23,039 --> 00:10:25,345
air And he said, Bert Brackhaus,

285
00:10:25,725 --> 00:10:26,784
son of a gun.

286
00:10:27,965 --> 00:10:29,884
And this this is my this is my

287
00:10:29,884 --> 00:10:32,764
memory of walking into the physics department. And

288
00:10:32,764 --> 00:10:35,345
people were really, really happy about it. Brackhaus

289
00:10:35,404 --> 00:10:36,240
was the first,

290
00:10:36,879 --> 00:10:38,339
Nobel Prize winner

291
00:10:38,799 --> 00:10:39,299
associated

292
00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:42,559
with McMaster University in Amatine. You've been to

293
00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:45,120
the University of Bristol and Cambridge, which, you

294
00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,000
know, has no no shortage of of Nobel

295
00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:49,700
laureates. But this was the first

296
00:10:50,254 --> 00:10:50,754
McMaster,

297
00:10:51,615 --> 00:10:54,894
Nobel laureate. So everybody was very happy. And

298
00:10:54,894 --> 00:10:56,434
there were endless celebrations.

299
00:10:57,054 --> 00:10:57,375
And,

300
00:10:58,014 --> 00:11:00,355
it was very nice. I remember meeting Brockhouse

301
00:11:00,414 --> 00:11:01,075
and discovering

302
00:11:01,534 --> 00:11:03,215
that he lived in this in one of

303
00:11:03,215 --> 00:11:05,909
my favorite areas of Hamilton, this sort of

304
00:11:06,149 --> 00:11:08,089
semi rural neighborhood,

305
00:11:08,789 --> 00:11:10,789
on the Niagara Escarpment. So he had a

306
00:11:10,789 --> 00:11:11,929
chat about that.

307
00:11:12,470 --> 00:11:12,970
And,

308
00:11:13,589 --> 00:11:15,829
yeah, it was a it was a lovely

309
00:11:15,909 --> 00:11:18,565
it was a really lovely day. And so

310
00:11:18,565 --> 00:11:19,464
every October,

311
00:11:20,004 --> 00:11:22,084
I think back to that day. And, you

312
00:11:22,084 --> 00:11:23,705
know, I've got some nice thoughts

313
00:11:24,964 --> 00:11:28,084
about that. So, yeah, that's, I I've written,

314
00:11:28,325 --> 00:11:30,840
something about that for the for the website.

315
00:11:31,460 --> 00:11:32,820
So I'll have a look at that. So

316
00:11:32,820 --> 00:11:35,799
what about you, Matin? You've had, some encounters

317
00:11:35,860 --> 00:11:38,500
with Nobel Prize winners as well. Well, I

318
00:11:38,500 --> 00:11:40,019
had an incident a bit like yours. It

319
00:11:40,019 --> 00:11:42,179
was early 9 I think 91, actually, when

320
00:11:42,179 --> 00:11:44,419
I was at the, Cavendish Laboratory, which was

321
00:11:44,419 --> 00:11:47,004
the department of physics at Cambridge. And the

322
00:11:47,004 --> 00:11:48,845
work I was involved in was in soft

323
00:11:48,845 --> 00:11:50,764
matter physics. And that was the year when

324
00:11:50,764 --> 00:11:53,745
Pierre Gilles de Jean, the the, Frenchman,

325
00:11:54,045 --> 00:11:55,884
won the Nobel Prize that year. And I

326
00:11:55,884 --> 00:11:56,384
remember,

327
00:11:57,004 --> 00:11:59,585
you know, there was great, celebration. He wasn't

328
00:11:59,809 --> 00:12:02,129
at the Cavendish Laboratory, but the Cavendish had

329
00:12:02,129 --> 00:12:04,209
a real expertise in soft matter physics. And

330
00:12:04,209 --> 00:12:06,129
there was a real delight that this field

331
00:12:06,129 --> 00:12:07,970
of physics that perhaps had gone under the

332
00:12:07,970 --> 00:12:10,529
radar was being recognized by the award of

333
00:12:10,529 --> 00:12:12,449
a prize. And I remember that year, you

334
00:12:12,449 --> 00:12:12,945
know,

335
00:12:13,345 --> 00:12:14,965
de Gein had done a lot of work

336
00:12:15,105 --> 00:12:17,184
with Sam Edwards at Cambridge, and he didn't

337
00:12:17,184 --> 00:12:18,544
win the prize that year. But there was

338
00:12:18,544 --> 00:12:20,565
no hard feelings. It was just a feeling

339
00:12:20,865 --> 00:12:21,445
that really,

340
00:12:22,625 --> 00:12:24,625
glad that that field had been recognized by

341
00:12:24,625 --> 00:12:26,865
the Nobel committee. But I think, actually, correct

342
00:12:26,865 --> 00:12:28,065
me if I'm wrong, Hamish, I think that

343
00:12:28,065 --> 00:12:28,799
was the last

344
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,600
time that only one person won the Nobel

345
00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:33,879
Prize for Physics Oh, it could be. Yeah.

346
00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,959
Now it's very much routinely shared with people.

347
00:12:36,959 --> 00:12:37,459
And,

348
00:12:37,839 --> 00:12:40,100
you know, that was, you know, an unusual

349
00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,240
time, because it just went to him. And

350
00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,154
that that's very much it's 2 or 3

351
00:12:44,154 --> 00:12:45,695
people share it routinely.

352
00:12:46,154 --> 00:12:48,075
Normally, it is. Yeah. It's funny. You've just

353
00:12:48,154 --> 00:12:49,295
you've mentioned Degen,

354
00:12:49,675 --> 00:12:52,495
and a memory of Degen has come back

355
00:12:52,555 --> 00:12:54,815
into my mind. And it was at McMaster,

356
00:12:55,940 --> 00:12:57,700
when I was doing my p h PhD

357
00:12:57,700 --> 00:12:58,440
at McMaster.

358
00:12:58,899 --> 00:13:00,120
DeJenne was,

359
00:13:01,220 --> 00:13:01,720
invited,

360
00:13:02,500 --> 00:13:04,200
to the university to speak.

361
00:13:04,580 --> 00:13:06,919
And he gave a seminar

362
00:13:07,220 --> 00:13:08,039
for undergraduate

363
00:13:08,514 --> 00:13:10,355
students. This was after he'd won the Nobel

364
00:13:10,355 --> 00:13:11,894
Prize, so he was very famous.

365
00:13:12,274 --> 00:13:14,934
And he gave a a seminar for undergraduate

366
00:13:15,235 --> 00:13:18,195
students. But he was so desperate for a

367
00:13:18,195 --> 00:13:18,695
cigarette.

368
00:13:19,475 --> 00:13:21,095
And back in those days,

369
00:13:21,519 --> 00:13:23,360
you know, McMaster was a was a you

370
00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,980
couldn't smoke inside in 91 at McMaster University.

371
00:13:27,519 --> 00:13:28,259
And so

372
00:13:28,639 --> 00:13:29,139
the

373
00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:32,320
the seminar was held outside. It was a

374
00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:33,379
beautiful day.

375
00:13:33,945 --> 00:13:36,764
And, it was held outside under a tree.

376
00:13:36,904 --> 00:13:39,465
And there was DeJene standing there smoking a

377
00:13:39,465 --> 00:13:39,965
cigarette

378
00:13:40,585 --> 00:13:42,045
with Really? Undergraduates

379
00:13:42,425 --> 00:13:44,105
gathered. He was a very heavy smoker. Gathered

380
00:13:44,105 --> 00:13:47,660
around him. Yeah. So it's yeah. I, yeah.

381
00:13:47,660 --> 00:13:49,279
That that one's just popped.

382
00:13:49,740 --> 00:13:51,680
That one's just popped into my head.

383
00:13:52,300 --> 00:13:54,220
Yeah. I mean, it's funny, you know, thinking

384
00:13:54,220 --> 00:13:56,139
about, you know, we're I think we're so

385
00:13:56,139 --> 00:13:58,540
privileged, if I can say that, at Physics

386
00:13:58,540 --> 00:14:00,879
World that we do get to meet

387
00:14:01,235 --> 00:14:01,894
these people.

388
00:14:02,434 --> 00:14:02,754
And,

389
00:14:03,554 --> 00:14:05,794
another Nobel Prize winner that I I really

390
00:14:05,794 --> 00:14:06,294
enjoyed

391
00:14:07,315 --> 00:14:09,414
meeting and interviewing is Frank Wilczak,

392
00:14:10,595 --> 00:14:11,334
the American,

393
00:14:12,195 --> 00:14:15,634
theoretical physicist who won for his work, on

394
00:14:15,634 --> 00:14:16,695
the strong force.

395
00:14:17,370 --> 00:14:19,370
But the the the interesting thing about that

396
00:14:19,370 --> 00:14:19,870
encounter

397
00:14:20,170 --> 00:14:20,910
is that,

398
00:14:21,850 --> 00:14:23,470
I interviewed him at,

399
00:14:25,210 --> 00:14:26,190
the March meeting,

400
00:14:26,809 --> 00:14:29,370
of the American Physical Society. And it was

401
00:14:29,370 --> 00:14:30,110
an anniversary.

402
00:14:30,649 --> 00:14:33,235
I think it was in some important anniversary

403
00:14:33,934 --> 00:14:37,075
of the, discovery of high temperature superconductivity.

404
00:14:38,495 --> 00:14:40,595
And so we talked about superconductivity.

405
00:14:41,535 --> 00:14:44,095
And that's what Frank Wilczek was really interested

406
00:14:44,095 --> 00:14:45,715
in at the time.

407
00:14:46,149 --> 00:14:47,990
You know, he had, he'd done his work

408
00:14:47,990 --> 00:14:50,230
on the strong force. And now he was

409
00:14:50,230 --> 00:14:51,370
talking about superconductivity

410
00:14:52,389 --> 00:14:54,570
and how the mathematics of superconductivity

411
00:14:55,110 --> 00:14:57,049
can be used to understand other,

412
00:14:57,830 --> 00:14:58,970
aspects of physics.

413
00:14:59,509 --> 00:15:01,110
And, you know, he's he's done some great

414
00:15:01,110 --> 00:15:02,704
work on time crystals, hasn't he?

415
00:15:03,485 --> 00:15:04,924
Yeah. Correct me if I'm wrong, Hamish. I

416
00:15:04,924 --> 00:15:06,384
think it was actually the 2011

417
00:15:07,084 --> 00:15:09,504
meeting, which was the centenary of the discovery

418
00:15:09,804 --> 00:15:10,544
of superconductivity.

419
00:15:11,004 --> 00:15:12,944
But obviously Okay. That included,

420
00:15:13,565 --> 00:15:15,324
but not to include high temperature work as

421
00:15:15,324 --> 00:15:18,009
well. It it was actually it was 2011,

422
00:15:18,009 --> 00:15:19,389
Mateen. Yeah. You're right.

423
00:15:20,009 --> 00:15:21,690
And but but the thing is, I I

424
00:15:21,690 --> 00:15:22,750
was really chuffed,

425
00:15:23,690 --> 00:15:25,450
with Frank, if I can call him that.

426
00:15:25,450 --> 00:15:25,950
Because

427
00:15:26,490 --> 00:15:28,970
4 years later, I was at the Royal

428
00:15:28,970 --> 00:15:30,269
Society in London.

429
00:15:30,615 --> 00:15:32,875
And I was there for a meeting about,

430
00:15:33,894 --> 00:15:35,914
Maxwell and Maxwell's equations.

431
00:15:36,774 --> 00:15:37,274
And,

432
00:15:38,254 --> 00:15:40,235
it we you know, in the coffee break,

433
00:15:40,294 --> 00:15:42,294
we were everybody there was looking at the

434
00:15:42,294 --> 00:15:43,894
portraits. I don't know if you've ever been

435
00:15:43,894 --> 00:15:44,960
to the Royal Society.

436
00:15:45,420 --> 00:15:46,800
It's full of portraits

437
00:15:47,259 --> 00:15:49,980
of all the famous, you know, fellows down

438
00:15:49,980 --> 00:15:51,980
the down the ages. So, you know, you've

439
00:15:51,980 --> 00:15:53,200
got Benjamin Franklin

440
00:15:53,580 --> 00:15:56,399
and Faraday and, you know, all these people.

441
00:15:57,034 --> 00:15:57,434
And,

442
00:15:58,394 --> 00:16:00,554
there's there's one portrait that had a sort

443
00:16:00,554 --> 00:16:01,454
of a saucy

444
00:16:02,154 --> 00:16:03,934
caption with with some innuendo.

445
00:16:04,714 --> 00:16:07,375
And, you know, I remember sort of chuckling,

446
00:16:07,995 --> 00:16:10,554
about it with Frank Wilczek. And he looked

447
00:16:10,554 --> 00:16:13,250
at me. And he said, oh, I know

448
00:16:13,250 --> 00:16:15,409
you. We've met somewhere, haven't we? So you

449
00:16:15,409 --> 00:16:17,329
actually knew a Nobel laureate knew you, actually.

450
00:16:17,329 --> 00:16:20,710
A Nobel laureate actually knew me. Yes. So

451
00:16:21,009 --> 00:16:22,230
that's, yeah.

452
00:16:23,250 --> 00:16:26,074
Another claim to fame with, with Nobel laureate.

453
00:16:26,074 --> 00:16:27,194
Well, I can do one better than that,

454
00:16:27,194 --> 00:16:28,954
Hamish. Because actually, when I was at the,

455
00:16:29,274 --> 00:16:31,834
Cavendish Laboratory in the early nineties, I did

456
00:16:31,834 --> 00:16:33,674
my PhD then. I actually went on to

457
00:16:33,674 --> 00:16:35,115
do a post doc. And one of the

458
00:16:35,115 --> 00:16:39,034
people in the department was Brian Josephson, who

459
00:16:39,034 --> 00:16:39,534
is,

460
00:16:40,110 --> 00:16:41,950
you know, famously won the Nobel Prize in

461
00:16:41,950 --> 00:16:42,450
1973.

462
00:16:42,909 --> 00:16:45,230
He was very young, 33. In fact, he

463
00:16:45,230 --> 00:16:47,889
won it for work on, you know, superconductivity

464
00:16:48,269 --> 00:16:50,269
and quantum tunneling that he'd done much earlier

465
00:16:50,269 --> 00:16:51,889
when he was in early twenties.

466
00:16:52,269 --> 00:16:54,049
And when I was there in the department,

467
00:16:54,190 --> 00:16:56,654
he was just a regular member of staff.

468
00:16:57,914 --> 00:17:00,154
And I think he was assigned to me

469
00:17:00,154 --> 00:17:01,274
to do a kind of,

470
00:17:01,995 --> 00:17:03,274
like a sort of what do you call

471
00:17:03,274 --> 00:17:05,055
it? I'm not like a management,

472
00:17:05,674 --> 00:17:07,835
check-in, like a as a as a check-in

473
00:17:07,835 --> 00:17:09,730
with the staff, how they were doing, which

474
00:17:09,730 --> 00:17:11,649
just didn't seem comfortably to him at all.

475
00:17:11,649 --> 00:17:13,169
I don't think he was he wasn't the

476
00:17:13,169 --> 00:17:14,929
sort of person who did, you know, annual

477
00:17:14,929 --> 00:17:16,210
appraisals or that kind of thing. But I

478
00:17:16,210 --> 00:17:18,529
remember sitting in a room with Brian Jodson.

479
00:17:18,529 --> 00:17:19,970
I'm not quite sure he knew who he

480
00:17:19,970 --> 00:17:20,869
knew I was.

481
00:17:21,250 --> 00:17:22,784
And in fact, I used to when I

482
00:17:22,784 --> 00:17:23,605
lived in Cambridge,

483
00:17:23,904 --> 00:17:25,585
I lived in a part of Cambridge called

484
00:17:25,585 --> 00:17:27,424
Newnham, which was a really nice part on

485
00:17:27,424 --> 00:17:29,204
the southeast of the city.

486
00:17:29,664 --> 00:17:29,904
And,

487
00:17:30,704 --> 00:17:32,704
every twice a week, I think, once, twice

488
00:17:32,704 --> 00:17:33,744
a week, there used to be this fish

489
00:17:33,744 --> 00:17:35,744
and chip van would roll up. And I

490
00:17:35,744 --> 00:17:37,184
remember I used to go for a run,

491
00:17:37,184 --> 00:17:39,210
and I'd have this 5 pound note in

492
00:17:39,210 --> 00:17:41,450
my hand. And afterwards, I'd queue up to

493
00:17:41,450 --> 00:17:41,950
get

494
00:17:42,410 --> 00:17:44,650
cod and chips, whatever it was. And one

495
00:17:44,650 --> 00:17:46,650
of the people always in the queue was

496
00:17:46,650 --> 00:17:49,210
Brian Josephson. And I don't think people knew

497
00:17:49,210 --> 00:17:50,890
who he was because he was quite a

498
00:17:50,890 --> 00:17:52,269
sort of distinctive character.

499
00:17:52,694 --> 00:17:55,095
He had this curly black hair, glasses. He

500
00:17:55,095 --> 00:17:57,434
had his cycle helmet on and his

501
00:17:57,894 --> 00:18:00,214
trousers with bicycle clips. And he'd be standing

502
00:18:00,214 --> 00:18:01,815
there. And I don't think anybody knew who

503
00:18:01,815 --> 00:18:03,894
he was and I I I knew him,

504
00:18:04,134 --> 00:18:06,134
from the department. So there was a very

505
00:18:06,134 --> 00:18:06,634
ordinary,

506
00:18:07,174 --> 00:18:10,049
scene with this eminent Nobel Prize winning physicist

507
00:18:10,350 --> 00:18:10,910
going around,

508
00:18:11,710 --> 00:18:13,309
in in that department. And over the years,

509
00:18:13,309 --> 00:18:15,710
you know, he's, he's I I dare to

510
00:18:15,710 --> 00:18:16,990
say, can I call him a friend of

511
00:18:16,990 --> 00:18:18,910
physics world? He's very sort of helpful on

512
00:18:18,910 --> 00:18:20,289
various matters if he

513
00:18:20,704 --> 00:18:22,865
and he certainly reads Physics World. And,

514
00:18:23,505 --> 00:18:25,744
unfortunately, Margaret Carrias, our colleague, is not here,

515
00:18:25,744 --> 00:18:27,984
but she, received a couple of or an

516
00:18:27,984 --> 00:18:30,464
email from him about the physics of how

517
00:18:30,464 --> 00:18:32,305
to turn a mattress. And I can't remember

518
00:18:32,305 --> 00:18:33,924
the details of it, but certainly,

519
00:18:34,625 --> 00:18:35,105
it sounds

520
00:18:35,744 --> 00:18:37,259
we have to get Margaret on the podcast

521
00:18:37,259 --> 00:18:39,339
another time for her to explain that story

522
00:18:39,339 --> 00:18:41,259
about Brian Joseph and send you an email

523
00:18:41,259 --> 00:18:43,339
about, you know, the physics of the symmetry

524
00:18:43,339 --> 00:18:44,859
of turning a mattress, how to do it

525
00:18:44,859 --> 00:18:46,240
in the most efficient way,

526
00:18:46,940 --> 00:18:48,460
and how to do it, you know, quickly

527
00:18:48,539 --> 00:18:51,384
as quickly as possible. So, yeah. I've actually

528
00:18:51,384 --> 00:18:54,744
had a appraisal from Brian Josephson. How about

529
00:18:54,744 --> 00:18:56,444
that? Wow. Claims of fame.

530
00:18:56,904 --> 00:18:59,304
Can't beat that. Yeah. I've I mean, I

531
00:18:59,304 --> 00:19:02,664
have worked with with Nobel laureates. I I

532
00:19:02,664 --> 00:19:04,284
went to the Lindau meeting

533
00:19:05,130 --> 00:19:07,070
once. I think you've been to the Lindau

534
00:19:07,289 --> 00:19:10,170
meeting several times. That's a meeting on a

535
00:19:10,170 --> 00:19:11,470
beautiful lake in Germany

536
00:19:11,930 --> 00:19:12,410
where,

537
00:19:13,289 --> 00:19:15,549
Nobel Prize winners are invited,

538
00:19:15,930 --> 00:19:18,330
and they speak to, well, young people, I

539
00:19:18,330 --> 00:19:20,404
suppose, from all over the world.

540
00:19:21,025 --> 00:19:23,525
And I was very fortunate 1 year

541
00:19:23,904 --> 00:19:24,404
to,

542
00:19:24,865 --> 00:19:26,805
be asked to organize a seminar

543
00:19:27,505 --> 00:19:30,485
where, the panelists were Nobel Prize,

544
00:19:31,345 --> 00:19:31,845
winners.

545
00:19:32,305 --> 00:19:33,445
And I chose

546
00:19:34,599 --> 00:19:36,299
I chose to look at immigration

547
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,339
and Nobel Prize winners because

548
00:19:40,039 --> 00:19:42,919
and I believe we have an infographic on

549
00:19:42,919 --> 00:19:45,559
Physics World to back this up. A huge

550
00:19:45,559 --> 00:19:49,079
number of of Nobel Laureates in Physics were

551
00:19:49,079 --> 00:19:49,579
immigrants

552
00:19:50,174 --> 00:19:51,795
either before or after

553
00:19:52,335 --> 00:19:54,735
they, won their prizes. You know, you you

554
00:19:54,894 --> 00:19:57,055
you've got people who fled Nazi Germany, for

555
00:19:57,055 --> 00:19:57,555
example,

556
00:19:58,095 --> 00:20:00,575
who are Nobel Prize winners or then won

557
00:20:00,575 --> 00:20:01,475
Nobel Prizes.

558
00:20:01,855 --> 00:20:03,795
Or, you know, you have people who

559
00:20:04,369 --> 00:20:07,090
who moved to different countries and did their

560
00:20:07,090 --> 00:20:08,390
Nobel Prize winning,

561
00:20:09,250 --> 00:20:10,630
work as an immigrant.

562
00:20:11,330 --> 00:20:13,970
And so it was a very timely topic

563
00:20:13,970 --> 00:20:15,490
at the time. I think it was around

564
00:20:15,490 --> 00:20:15,990
Brexit.

565
00:20:16,289 --> 00:20:18,734
Yeah. The time of the time of Brexit,

566
00:20:19,674 --> 00:20:21,835
in the UK where immigration was a very

567
00:20:21,835 --> 00:20:22,575
hot topic.

568
00:20:23,034 --> 00:20:25,595
And I really I really enjoyed that. I

569
00:20:25,595 --> 00:20:26,494
mean, there were

570
00:20:26,875 --> 00:20:28,474
you can read about it on the Physics

571
00:20:28,474 --> 00:20:29,294
World website.

572
00:20:29,994 --> 00:20:32,470
I think I had 4 Nobel Prize winners.

573
00:20:32,470 --> 00:20:35,589
I had absolutely no problem getting people to

574
00:20:35,589 --> 00:20:36,650
talk about this.

575
00:20:37,269 --> 00:20:37,930
You know,

576
00:20:38,470 --> 00:20:40,150
I think a few of the the Nobel

577
00:20:40,150 --> 00:20:42,730
Prize winners who took part were actually immigrants

578
00:20:42,789 --> 00:20:45,349
themselves. People were very keen to talk about

579
00:20:45,349 --> 00:20:48,494
it. So that was a very rewarding experience.

580
00:20:48,715 --> 00:20:51,035
I really enjoyed that. Yeah. Yeah. I remember

581
00:20:51,035 --> 00:20:52,095
there was one Nobel,

582
00:20:53,195 --> 00:20:55,515
Linzhou event. I think it was, a session

583
00:20:55,515 --> 00:20:58,559
chaired by our former colleague, Matthew Chalmers, who

584
00:20:59,120 --> 00:21:01,600
currently was, until recently, the editor of Sir

585
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:03,600
and Courier. And I know he, did a

586
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:05,600
similar panel debate. And I remember watching it.

587
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:07,440
I think either when I was there or

588
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:09,360
I watched it online, and it was certainly

589
00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:11,920
really difficult for him because the panel had

590
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:13,734
some Nobel laureates on it, and they're they're

591
00:21:13,734 --> 00:21:15,194
kind of a law unto themselves.

592
00:21:15,575 --> 00:21:16,855
And it was I found it I don't

593
00:21:16,855 --> 00:21:18,294
know if you have this experience, Hamish. I

594
00:21:18,294 --> 00:21:20,214
think Matthew found it very hard to keep

595
00:21:20,214 --> 00:21:22,454
those laureates on track. Some of them were

596
00:21:22,454 --> 00:21:24,454
just sort of talking on stage while this

597
00:21:24,454 --> 00:21:26,214
panel debate was going to go on because

598
00:21:26,214 --> 00:21:27,720
I think they felt maybe if you're a

599
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:29,480
Nobel Laureate, you're kind of above the law

600
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:30,839
where you can kind of do what you

601
00:21:30,839 --> 00:21:32,839
like. You're maybe sort of used to, you

602
00:21:32,839 --> 00:21:34,359
know, having everything your own way. And I

603
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,440
I remember thinking it must have been a

604
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,279
very difficult job for him to keep them

605
00:21:38,279 --> 00:21:40,380
on track and keep them sort of respectful

606
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:42,140
of the rules of the panel debate. But,

607
00:21:42,285 --> 00:21:44,705
you know, certainly that Nobel laureate Nobel Prize

608
00:21:44,845 --> 00:21:47,005
meeting in Lindau is very unusual. It's kind

609
00:21:47,005 --> 00:21:49,164
of like a I'm trying to analogy, I

610
00:21:49,164 --> 00:21:50,924
suppose it's a bit like a Woodstock for

611
00:21:50,924 --> 00:21:53,404
Nobel laureate. Like a music festival. And the

612
00:21:53,404 --> 00:21:55,164
reason everyone is there is to see these

613
00:21:55,164 --> 00:21:57,960
eminent artists, and the artists are the Nobel

614
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,359
laureates. And, they're kind of wandering around with

615
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:00,859
sort

616
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,099
of, you know, students of,

617
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,640
dare I say, falling students sort of attracted

618
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:06,839
to them. And I and I had an

619
00:22:06,839 --> 00:22:08,440
experience myself, Hamish, which,

620
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:10,855
I've told you the story several times

621
00:22:11,234 --> 00:22:13,394
where I'd arranged to I was there in

622
00:22:13,555 --> 00:22:15,634
it was 2010, and I'd arranged to talk

623
00:22:15,634 --> 00:22:17,654
to Robert Laughlin who won the 1998

624
00:22:18,914 --> 00:22:21,394
Nobel Prize for Physics for his condensed matter

625
00:22:21,394 --> 00:22:22,375
work. And

626
00:22:22,759 --> 00:22:24,200
he had a new book out about the

627
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:25,960
future of energy and coal, and I was

628
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:27,640
there and I'd arranged to have a talk

629
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:29,080
to him in a in a private room

630
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:29,980
to do an interview.

631
00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:32,200
And after about 20 minutes, all was going

632
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,360
quite well, but then, someone barged in. 1

633
00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:36,279
of the conference officials barged in. You know,

634
00:22:36,279 --> 00:22:38,335
there'd been an overbooking and, you know, we

635
00:22:38,335 --> 00:22:39,615
were turfed out. And the fact that I

636
00:22:39,615 --> 00:22:41,375
was with a Nobel Laureate didn't sort of

637
00:22:41,375 --> 00:22:44,515
make any difference. We had to reconvene. So

638
00:22:45,134 --> 00:22:47,055
this interview kind of got cut short and

639
00:22:47,055 --> 00:22:49,055
then we reconvened on the terrace because, as

640
00:22:49,055 --> 00:22:50,835
you remember, Hamish, it's on the lovely

641
00:22:51,215 --> 00:22:54,420
banks of the Lake Constance, and it's beautiful

642
00:22:54,420 --> 00:22:56,099
with lakes and the mountains in the distance,

643
00:22:56,099 --> 00:22:58,579
and, it's a lovely setting. And so we

644
00:22:58,579 --> 00:23:00,819
reconvene on this outside table. But like I

645
00:23:00,819 --> 00:23:01,559
said before,

646
00:23:02,179 --> 00:23:04,500
this whole event, the Nobel laureates, everyone knows

647
00:23:04,500 --> 00:23:06,505
who they are. And before I knew what

648
00:23:06,505 --> 00:23:07,244
was going on,

649
00:23:07,625 --> 00:23:09,704
kinda one student had joined with us, and

650
00:23:09,704 --> 00:23:11,305
then there was another student, and then a

651
00:23:11,305 --> 00:23:13,464
third and a fourth. And before I knew

652
00:23:13,464 --> 00:23:14,904
what was going on, this one to one

653
00:23:14,904 --> 00:23:16,525
interview that was meant to be in private

654
00:23:16,825 --> 00:23:18,345
had just turned into a kind of press

655
00:23:18,345 --> 00:23:18,779
conference

656
00:23:19,740 --> 00:23:21,980
where Robert Loughlin was holding court with all

657
00:23:21,980 --> 00:23:23,580
these students, and they

658
00:23:24,140 --> 00:23:25,660
the whole thing was rather awkward, and I

659
00:23:25,660 --> 00:23:27,980
ended up sort of sidling into the background

660
00:23:27,980 --> 00:23:30,140
while he held forth, held court with all

661
00:23:30,140 --> 00:23:31,420
these students. You know, he was in his

662
00:23:31,420 --> 00:23:32,025
element. And,

663
00:23:32,744 --> 00:23:34,424
you know, they get invited to this meeting,

664
00:23:34,424 --> 00:23:36,025
and they're really the stars of the show.

665
00:23:36,025 --> 00:23:37,705
And that that of course, they are. And,

666
00:23:37,865 --> 00:23:40,025
the students obviously want to sort of brush

667
00:23:40,025 --> 00:23:41,945
up with this genius and sort of actually

668
00:23:41,945 --> 00:23:43,805
feel see 1 in the flesh. And it's

669
00:23:43,945 --> 00:23:45,865
it's quite an unusual experience because the Nobel

670
00:23:45,865 --> 00:23:48,450
laureates really are celebrities. And I don't know.

671
00:23:48,450 --> 00:23:50,690
Your life really must get turned upside down

672
00:23:50,690 --> 00:23:52,869
when you you win one of these prizes.

673
00:23:53,329 --> 00:23:55,509
It's quite an incredible thing. It's the one

674
00:23:55,890 --> 00:23:57,109
one feat that,

675
00:23:57,410 --> 00:23:58,930
you know, you can win in physics that

676
00:23:58,930 --> 00:24:00,630
really does transform your life.

677
00:24:01,134 --> 00:24:03,634
Yeah. Well, what what's it? It's called Nobelitis,

678
00:24:04,015 --> 00:24:05,134
isn't it? Where,

679
00:24:05,694 --> 00:24:06,335
you know, you

680
00:24:07,855 --> 00:24:10,095
a laureate sort of gets swept away by

681
00:24:10,095 --> 00:24:10,755
the fame

682
00:24:11,134 --> 00:24:15,049
and, maybe starts commenting on on areas of

683
00:24:15,049 --> 00:24:17,930
of life and society and science that they

684
00:24:17,930 --> 00:24:19,849
they don't really know much about. I mean,

685
00:24:19,849 --> 00:24:21,769
I have to say, I have never met,

686
00:24:22,089 --> 00:24:23,869
a Nobel laureate who suffered

687
00:24:24,170 --> 00:24:24,910
from noblitis.

688
00:24:25,289 --> 00:24:26,109
All of them

689
00:24:26,695 --> 00:24:29,815
were very grounded and lovely people to chat

690
00:24:29,815 --> 00:24:31,595
to and very unassuming.

691
00:24:32,134 --> 00:24:34,615
So I think I think noblitis is probably

692
00:24:34,615 --> 00:24:35,755
a fairly rare

693
00:24:36,055 --> 00:24:36,555
affliction.

694
00:24:37,335 --> 00:24:37,835
So,

695
00:24:38,710 --> 00:24:40,789
well, I I mean, I I could go

696
00:24:40,789 --> 00:24:41,529
on forever

697
00:24:42,309 --> 00:24:45,350
about Nobel Prize winners that, that I've met

698
00:24:45,350 --> 00:24:46,170
and interviewed.

699
00:24:46,870 --> 00:24:49,110
But what what about you, Matin? Any, would

700
00:24:49,110 --> 00:24:50,384
you would you like to take the last

701
00:24:50,384 --> 00:24:52,464
slot of the podcast? Well, I suppose the

702
00:24:52,464 --> 00:24:54,545
most difficult one that I had to do

703
00:24:54,545 --> 00:24:56,565
was Steven Weinberg. I remember

704
00:24:57,025 --> 00:24:59,505
it was 2003, and I've been invited to

705
00:24:59,505 --> 00:25:00,005
CERN

706
00:25:00,464 --> 00:25:00,785
to,

707
00:25:01,265 --> 00:25:03,345
see how plans were developing for the the

708
00:25:03,345 --> 00:25:05,765
Large Hadron Collider, which was then being built.

709
00:25:06,329 --> 00:25:08,569
And I think Steven Weinberg was there, been

710
00:25:08,569 --> 00:25:10,009
invited to give a talk. And in the

711
00:25:10,009 --> 00:25:12,730
break in the schedule, he'd arranged to talk

712
00:25:12,730 --> 00:25:13,309
to me

713
00:25:13,609 --> 00:25:14,970
as a member of the press. And so

714
00:25:14,970 --> 00:25:17,470
we met in a hotel lobby in Geneva

715
00:25:17,609 --> 00:25:20,569
and started doing this interview. And, you know,

716
00:25:20,569 --> 00:25:22,384
he was very lovely person, as you say,

717
00:25:22,384 --> 00:25:25,204
Nobel laureates. But honestly, I felt

718
00:25:25,825 --> 00:25:27,825
so so out of my depth, you know,

719
00:25:27,825 --> 00:25:29,264
out of all the people you might meet,

720
00:25:29,264 --> 00:25:30,804
this was a theorist who,

721
00:25:31,345 --> 00:25:33,365
you know, sort of several orders of magnitude

722
00:25:33,504 --> 00:25:35,369
more intelligent, you know, and it was an

723
00:25:35,369 --> 00:25:36,970
incredible job to sort of reign him in.

724
00:25:36,970 --> 00:25:38,650
He was very charming and kind, but it

725
00:25:38,650 --> 00:25:40,250
was sort of it's a very sort of

726
00:25:40,250 --> 00:25:42,890
asymmetric process when you interview Nobel laureate because

727
00:25:42,890 --> 00:25:44,590
they they know so much and

728
00:25:45,049 --> 00:25:47,130
and and you feel even your questions that

729
00:25:47,130 --> 00:25:47,789
you ask

730
00:25:48,250 --> 00:25:50,945
aren't even sensible. You know, it's just very

731
00:25:50,945 --> 00:25:52,805
odd because they know so much, and

732
00:25:53,265 --> 00:25:55,025
and it's and it can be quite, it's

733
00:25:55,025 --> 00:25:56,785
quite difficult because you're, a, you're trying to

734
00:25:56,785 --> 00:25:58,884
sort of keep abreast of what they're telling

735
00:25:59,345 --> 00:26:01,045
you in real time. They're deluging

736
00:26:01,424 --> 00:26:03,664
deluging you with information that, you know, they've

737
00:26:03,664 --> 00:26:05,445
been thinking about for 50 years.

738
00:26:05,809 --> 00:26:07,169
And then you're trying to sort of think

739
00:26:07,169 --> 00:26:08,230
up your next question,

740
00:26:08,769 --> 00:26:10,869
without looking too stupid. And,

741
00:26:12,130 --> 00:26:14,369
sadly, the Dictaphone that I recorded the meeting

742
00:26:14,369 --> 00:26:16,630
on, we didn't have sort of mobile devices

743
00:26:16,769 --> 00:26:17,775
as we do now, digital devices,

744
00:26:18,654 --> 00:26:20,894
an old fashioned analog tape. I'm not quite

745
00:26:20,894 --> 00:26:22,335
sure where it is, and we kinda lost

746
00:26:22,335 --> 00:26:23,855
it in one of our many moves of

747
00:26:23,855 --> 00:26:25,934
physics world over the years. But the only

748
00:26:25,934 --> 00:26:27,695
thing I can remember, Hamish, was that, you

749
00:26:27,695 --> 00:26:29,394
know, he we were sitting there and suddenly,

750
00:26:29,535 --> 00:26:31,934
he broke off midstream and sort of led

751
00:26:31,934 --> 00:26:33,535
forward onto the table in front of us.

752
00:26:33,535 --> 00:26:35,109
And there was a bowl of peanuts and

753
00:26:35,109 --> 00:26:37,269
started eating these peanuts. And then he started

754
00:26:37,269 --> 00:26:39,269
asking me whether I like peanuts, and it

755
00:26:39,269 --> 00:26:40,549
was really odd. The only thing I can

756
00:26:40,549 --> 00:26:41,990
remember is, isn't it stupid? Are all these

757
00:26:41,990 --> 00:26:43,309
things he was telling me? The only thing

758
00:26:43,309 --> 00:26:45,589
I can remember is, do you like nuts

759
00:26:45,589 --> 00:26:46,789
is what he said to me. And in

760
00:26:46,789 --> 00:26:48,194
my family at home, it's kind of this

761
00:26:48,194 --> 00:26:50,914
catchphrase. Do you like nuts has become sort

762
00:26:50,914 --> 00:26:52,194
of gone down in history. And isn't it

763
00:26:52,194 --> 00:26:53,634
silly? Like, of all the things that he

764
00:26:53,634 --> 00:26:55,015
told me, the only thing I can remember

765
00:26:55,234 --> 00:26:57,654
is Steven Weinberg asking whether I like peanuts.

766
00:26:58,515 --> 00:26:59,474
But, you know, he was,

767
00:27:00,049 --> 00:27:00,369
you know, obviously,

768
00:27:01,169 --> 00:27:03,409
very talented person and, you know, fully deserving

769
00:27:03,409 --> 00:27:04,470
of the prize. And,

770
00:27:05,089 --> 00:27:06,609
you know, so let's see who wins this

771
00:27:06,609 --> 00:27:08,690
year. I'm sure whoever it is Hamish, their

772
00:27:08,690 --> 00:27:11,169
lives will be turned upside down and be,

773
00:27:11,169 --> 00:27:12,710
you know, transformed. And

774
00:27:13,544 --> 00:27:16,105
even in 2018, when Donna Strickland, the Canadian

775
00:27:16,184 --> 00:27:18,504
your Canadian compatriot won the Nobel Prize Who

776
00:27:18,504 --> 00:27:21,004
who, is a graduate of McMaster University

777
00:27:21,384 --> 00:27:24,204
on the website and the 2nd Nobel Laureate

778
00:27:24,424 --> 00:27:26,679
associated? It. Absolutely lovely person. And and I

779
00:27:26,679 --> 00:27:29,000
know her life has been sort of transformed,

780
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:30,539
and you kind of need a whole

781
00:27:30,919 --> 00:27:32,919
entourage of people to sort of run your

782
00:27:32,919 --> 00:27:34,859
schedule because you're suddenly in demand.

783
00:27:36,519 --> 00:27:38,279
So let's see who win wins the prize

784
00:27:38,279 --> 00:27:39,019
this year.

785
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,365
Remind me what were your suggestions again. You

786
00:27:41,365 --> 00:27:42,744
think Capaso and Henry,

787
00:27:43,125 --> 00:27:45,525
Lena Howe? Henry, Lena Howe. And I went

788
00:27:45,525 --> 00:27:47,285
for twisted Graphene. So,

789
00:27:47,845 --> 00:27:50,085
let's see who wins next week. Yeah. I

790
00:27:50,085 --> 00:27:51,845
mean, I really hope it's somebody that we

791
00:27:51,845 --> 00:27:52,345
know,

792
00:27:52,740 --> 00:27:54,740
you know, a friend of physics world. Wouldn't

793
00:27:54,740 --> 00:27:57,000
that be great if, you know, somebody

794
00:27:57,299 --> 00:28:00,599
we know wins? But we have absolutely no

795
00:28:00,819 --> 00:28:01,319
insight

796
00:28:01,779 --> 00:28:04,420
into who's going to win next week. So,

797
00:28:05,044 --> 00:28:07,284
may the best physicist win. Well, as we

798
00:28:07,284 --> 00:28:09,125
always say, you know, it takes 50 years

799
00:28:09,125 --> 00:28:11,544
before the archives are opened up. And so

800
00:28:12,164 --> 00:28:13,944
we will have to wait until 2074,

801
00:28:14,565 --> 00:28:16,164
which I don't think would be around then,

802
00:28:16,164 --> 00:28:18,644
Hamish, to find out the reasons why the

803
00:28:18,644 --> 00:28:20,900
prize was awarded this year. They're very careful

804
00:28:20,900 --> 00:28:22,980
not to sort of release details until that

805
00:28:22,980 --> 00:28:25,539
50 year rule has passed. So but we

806
00:28:25,539 --> 00:28:27,480
will certainly find out on Tuesday,

807
00:28:28,819 --> 00:28:32,440
8th October I believe so. 2024 at 10:45

808
00:28:33,460 --> 00:28:35,694
UK time. UK time. And let's hope there's

809
00:28:35,694 --> 00:28:37,294
not an embarrassing thing like there was with

810
00:28:37,294 --> 00:28:39,615
the chemistry prize last year where, Oh, was

811
00:28:39,615 --> 00:28:41,694
it leaked? It was leaked, wasn't it? That

812
00:28:41,694 --> 00:28:43,794
that was a first, I think. Yeah. Yeah.

813
00:28:44,254 --> 00:28:45,154
Very exciting.

814
00:28:45,534 --> 00:28:48,414
But, yeah, stay tuned to Physics World, on

815
00:28:48,414 --> 00:28:49,634
8th October.

816
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,480
We'll have, we'll have an article out within

817
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:52,980
minutes.

818
00:28:53,519 --> 00:28:54,820
That's our, tradition.

819
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,680
So you can find out out all about

820
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,180
the Nobel Laureate or Laureate,

821
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:01,460
for 2024

822
00:29:02,174 --> 00:29:03,315
at Physics World.

823
00:29:03,855 --> 00:29:05,875
Okay. Thanks, Matin. Thanks, Hamish.

824
00:29:12,894 --> 00:29:14,654
I'm afraid that's all the time we have

825
00:29:14,654 --> 00:29:15,875
for this week's podcast.

826
00:29:16,190 --> 00:29:17,490
Thanks again to Matin

827
00:29:17,869 --> 00:29:18,609
and also

828
00:29:18,910 --> 00:29:21,089
to Fred Iles, our producer.

829
00:29:21,470 --> 00:29:23,809
This episode was supported by SmartAct,

830
00:29:24,349 --> 00:29:27,170
empowering breakthroughs in science and technology

831
00:29:27,710 --> 00:29:29,490
with high precision positioning,

832
00:29:30,029 --> 00:29:30,529
metrology,

833
00:29:31,184 --> 00:29:31,924
and automation

834
00:29:32,304 --> 00:29:32,804
solutions.

835
00:29:33,424 --> 00:29:33,924
Visit

836
00:29:34,304 --> 00:29:34,804
smartact.com

837
00:29:36,304 --> 00:29:37,284
to learn more.