Wayne's World with Maureen Bharoocha

00:00:00
Speaker 1: On the bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have wenuum, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in best start changing it with the Bedel Cast, Party on Jamie, Party on Caitlin. It's Bechdel Cast, Becktel Cast. Movie time Samine is like I wasn't ready and I am so happy. Well the first time I felt good in like days. Oh yes, So for the listeners at home, we are recording this on the date is Marchel coronavirus. It already sounds really dystopian when you say the date is the time capsule. Yeah, if you find this at the beginning of at the beginning of whatever the millionth Avengers movie is, where it's like Robert Downey Jr's in space, He's like day three, it's a gloomy day. It's a gloomy day. But that put me in a great mood. Thank you, thank you, You're welcome. We're talking about Wayne's world today, Yes, we are, so what we're doing on this here podcast. We talked about the representation of women in movies. We use the Bechtel test as a jumping off point to initiate a larger conversation. And do you know what that is? Um? Not a negative, Jamie told me, Actually, Caitlin. The Bechtel test is a media metric invented by cartoonist Alson Bechdels some Nights, called the Bechtel Wallace test, that requires that a piece of media have an interaction between two female identified characters with names who talk about something other than a man for more than two lines of dialogue. Wow, you don't say, Jamie, Yeah, I do say. Okay, Well that passed the Bechtel tests. Well that's true. That's nice. Yeah, that's nice. Us talking about coronavirus passes. The virus is genderless. Um. Yeah. So yes, today's movie is Wayn's World. We have a guest with us. She is terrific. She was a segment director on Jimmy Kimmel Live. She's a filmmaker and the director of the upcoming movie Golden Arm, which is a female driven comedy that shows women in the competitive world of arm wrestling. So much fun. It's Maureen Baruca for having me. I'm excited for bringing us Wayne's World. Oh my god, it's one of my all time favorite So tell us your your relationship, your history with this movie. Um, I feel like this movie is a very seminal movie for me. Um. I I think I came out when I was in junior high school, so I think it was a time where he's just like being goofy and weird and um It's definitely one that I've probably seen the most, and it was interesting to rewatch it. We watched it last night. Just be like, Okay, in the in the lens of the Bechdel Test, we'll fight for it. But it's like, oh, it does, and it has some issues, but I think it holds pretty well. I was impressed. I thought, you know, there's definitely elements and in some cases entire characters where you're like but but like good. I don't know. I think it addresses like things that you're like. It kind of addresses those within the movie at some points. You know. It is very meta, Yes, and it taught me a lot about a lot of things about like who are cool girls who are not like about movies and making television. Lots of references and Wayne's world, who has even more I know I haven't seen. There's a Dreassic Park reference. There's a Thelman Louise Reference, the graduates, the graduate, It's got it all, Jamie. What's your relationship in history? I don't have much of a history with it. I mean, this movie came out before I was born, so I and I didn't I don't know my my my dad is a big fan of this movie, and I thought everything my dad liked was stupid. So I later learned that that was not true and that this movie. I really liked this movie. I like Mike Myers and Dana Carvey individually quite a bit. I mean, my favorite bad, horrible, horrible movie. As The Master of Disguise started, Danna Carvey, Um, I love you know, I love Shrek. Here's my review of I love Shrek. No, but I this was my first time watching this movie, and I really enjoyed it. I laughed a lot. I like it. It makes me laugh every time. It's like, I feel like, it's so funny. It's it's such a great character movie. I feel like everything they do in characters with Garth. I love Garth so much. And I have to say, too, it's the original, that's what she said. I feel like, Yes, I mean, I feel like when everyone came out and saying that in the office. I'm like, but it's from Wayne's World, you don't And I'm not sure that whoever wrote that on the office was well aware and they're like, no, no, no, that was my world. I really liked it. I had so much fun watching it. I think that, like you know, on issues of gender, it doesn't do uh perfect, but on issues of class, I think it does really well. And I have a lot to say about the perfect class issues addressed in Wayne's or what's your history with I definitely grew up with this movie. I we had like the two VHS tapes of Wayne's World in Wayn's Word two. Um, I saw you can get it. You can get it as a set, and then I bought the set also on DVD later. Um uh yeah. These were a huge staple in the Durante household, I even as recently as two years ago. So I do this fun thing sometimes where I dress up as my own couple's costume because I never have a partner. Very cool, and so I will combine what would normally be two people wearing two different streams. It's always like a Wayne and Garth, and I will combine them into one. And the names that I wear the whole thing of So I've done that for Marty McFly and his girlfriend Jennifer. Um, you have to say his girlfriend otherwise she's not against Jennifer exactly, they're like who uh. And I also did it for Wayne and Garth, so I have a photo that I will share on the Instagram and stuff. Class if they're classic duo, I mean they're like the mode like iconic duo. Yes, And it's like I knew who Wayne and Garth were even though I've never seen the movie. Like it's just like in the DNA of the culture on the Zeitgeist Zyche, the Daily zite Geist. Maybe when I was in junior high school again, this movie was like me and my friend group like loved it and it was all girls, and I think it was like before I really knew what like schwing meant. So we went still don't really know what it means, poner. So in seventh grade I went to Cavol School and I just remember, like me my friends with we thought it was like something exciting, like you did a good job, so in class we would stand up you got an eight swing? Like the girls, I think all the boys knew what it was so they never did it. I think they thought it was embarrassing. But me and my friends are just like schwing schwing schwing, like in class standing up and it's like now, I'm like what, Just like all the girls in my class were like showing we did not realize that it was you're having a boner. And this movie is directed by a woman, which I feel like we'll talk about. But it also I think that like the Last of Years movie, Yeah, who's like an icon in her own right. Um, this is like the highest grossing SNL sketch originating movie of all time. Like, it's got a lot of it's got a lot goo and it helped propel Bohemian Rhapsody to the number two song of which is a wild because it came out in the seventies and everybody has done that with their friends. Like I mean, I like that song comes on and you do this scene in this piece. Yeah, I remember doing that in middle school and my cousin and not fully understanding why we were doing it, but she had just seen Wayne. Let's do the recap and we'll go from there. We meet Wayne Campbell. That's Mike Myers and his best friend Garth Algar. That's Dana Carvey. There are these two, you know, grungy rock and roll dudes who have a local cable access show called Wayne's World Heard of It, which they tape out of Wayne's basement in Aurora, Illinois. I always like think of Mike Myers is so deeply Canadian that I assumed that took lace in Canada. Oh yeah, no, Illinois. Baby makes you think. Um. This guy Benjamin rob Blows character is a TV producer who sees the show and he's like, hey, I think I can sell this because he's got I guess, like a client Noah vander Hoff, who owns a chain of arcades and is looking to sponsor a show. Then Wayne and Garth and their friends Slash Crew go to this rock club and this band is playing. Who's lead singer is Cassandra and Wayne sees her and he goes, let me see if I get this right. She's a babe swing would be so goofy um. And he chats with her for a minute and he's like, I'm in love with this woman, and then she invites him to another gig of hers. Meanwhile, Benjamin and this producer guy Russell, are trying to pitch Wayne's World to Noah vander Hoff, even though they don't own Wayne's World. So they go to Wayne and Garth and ben is like, here, signed these contracts and we'll give you a bunch of money, and like Garth thinks it's weird, but like, this is Wayne's dream, so he goes along with it. They signed the contracts. Then Wayne goes to Cassandra's gig uh and they chat afterwards and shinnicky. She likes him, he likes her. They are vibing. They start dating. Then Wayne and Garth start doing rehearsals for the like sponsored network version. This is like Wayne's World. It's such good satire too, of how because it's like you know that the set that they're in is probably what they were doing it as al and then they just like pull out and stupid and like this is the whole thing, but yeah, it's right right because there it's the set that looks like Wayne's basement, but that's not Wayne's basement. And Wayne and especially Garth feel uneasy about Benjamin because he's like this slimy money boy, Um, you're coming, slimy money boy. Is that a boy who gets bitten by radioactive Sney gets written by radioactive money. That's what moneyball is about, right YEA yeah, ball that gets bitten by radioactive money. Um. So, then Wayne and Garth go to an Alice Cooper concert in Milwaukee, and there they bump into a security guard played by Chris Farley, who, by the way, plays a different character in Wayne's World two. Really I think it's a different character. It's kind of funny, I believe, so um who tells them about Frank Sharp, this record producer who is looking for new acts to sign, and Chris Farley lays out his whole travel schedule and he's like, yeah, he's going to be coming through Chicago and this day. And then the joke, you know, the meta joke is made about how you know for security guard, he had an awful lot of information and we're like meta humor, woo, we love to see it. Then Wayne and Garth go back to Chicago for their first taped show, but Wayne humiliates Noah vander Hoff on air, so Benjamin fires him. It's very funny and punk rock Sphincter Boys, which is a boy bitten by a radioactive sphincter, and then Wayne is like, well, I'm taking my show with me, and Benjamin's like, why own the show? So Wayne storms out and he leaves Garth there all by himself, which upsets Garth and they get in this big fight. Cassandra then breaks up with Wayne because he thinks that she might be having sex with Benjamin. Talk about and this is what we call the low point of the movie. Waite what it's almost like she has two degrees in screenwriting. Well, I would never mention my master's in screenwriting from Boston University. I think that Alfred Milena would have been a great money boy in this movie. I like when he plays the money boy. I like it. Then Wayne decides to win Cassandra back, and he's going to do that by trying to get that Frank Sharp guy to listen to Cassandra play music in the hopes that he will want to sign her. And using the info that Chris Farley gave them, they staged this whole thing where Wayne goes to Chicago to get Cassandra, who's in the middle of shooting a music video with Benjamin. He brings her back to his house. They do the Wayne's World show from his basement just like old times and then like Garth uses his like tech skills to he's a hacker. He's a hacker. Yes, he like triangulates some satellites or something so that Cassandra playing on the show will be broadcast on the TV. In Frank Sharp's limo, Frank sees it, he goes to Wayne's house. There are various alternate endings, but the real ending is that he signs Cassandra and basically everyone lives happily ever after. Okay, so that's the story. Break. We'll come right back, party, young, We're back. Where should we start? Okay? I want to I guess maybe get the character I think with maybe the most built in misogyny, Yes, I mean the psychohot. Yeah yeah, the one that they cannot stop. I mean sucks on many levels. Let's talk about Stacy really, question, it's it's frustrating in a movie that does like way better than many movies of this you know, year and age have any right to do. And in a movie that's directed by a woman has at least one female writer you know in the mix. Um, the fact that Stacy is a character that exists sucks. So Stacy, of course, being the ex girlfriend of Wayne. All we know about her is that she's Wayne's ex girlfriend and that she wants him back and she'll do anything, and jokes are made about her mental state. Jokes are made at her physical expense a lot. She's like hit by a car. She's got like all. She rides her bike into to a parked car. It's even worse, and she already has a broken broken nuck from falling through like a glass ceiling. I have like mixed feelings about her because I mean, I still laugh at those moments, but it is like she's very much like pigeonholed into the like and I'm trying not to say the word crazy anymore, but she's like the crazy ex girlfriends stereotype. It's kind of hard because yeah, they they say it so much that it's impossible to avoid, Like that's what they keep saying. Well, he asks her, are you mental? I mean he asked a few people that, but it has a different connotation with her, right And it's like, I mean just that, I mean, and we try, we've been trying to. I mean, it's an ongoing process, but we're trying to be aware of it as well of just like the common slang that is ultimately slurs against people with mental illness. Um is. I mean, I don't necessarily hold that against this movie in particular because it was such a cultural thing and still is it is like something to be aware of that. Like one of his catchphrases is that like, yeah there are mental um for sure. Yes, so there's that to consider. Um. But yeah, overall, just her character is framed as like, I mean, to bring back one of our catchphrases, bitchy obstacle still to make that T shirt you know now that we're in quarantine. I mean she literally physically comes in his when he's like yeah, when he's like he's moving towards to a career, she like literally just like pops into fight and she's like Wayne, Wayne, and then like later, Um, there's like the fake ending or the alternate ending where like she's like and I'm pregnant, and then she's I'm pregnant, which is why I've been so moody. You're like, oh, there's also I mean, and I laugh at this scene too, but when she's like, here's a gun, rack, I got you, Like, here's a gift a gun. Many guns necessitate an entire rack. Okay, that's a great job. It's like me and my friends quoted that all the time. When when misogyny is well written, it's like what the fuck? Like I think again, this is like because I saw it like such an impressible age. I think it was like, oh, yeah, she's somebody that you don't want to be. You don't want to be that girl that's like so clingy, desperate, jealous, unstable. Right, stop over it, like we broke up two months ago, like I already lost you, like all that stuff where it's like, oh, she's just not listening, it's right, which is I mean? And then then there's the other side of it of like we see stalker behaviors in rom coms, especially all the time, and when a male character does it, it's almost glorified in many cases, and it's made to seem like, Wow, he's so committed, he's not going to take no for an answer because he loves her. But then when we see Stacy exhibiting the same behaviors, it's with like the soundtrack sting from the shower scene, like and really they I mean, the fact that they call her a psycho hose beast is like what does that even mean I don't know, like Hose like did like what is like just like a crazy monstery person, Like she is made out to be kind of this like monster who we're supposed to be laughing at. But I think that if you take away a lot of if you tone down the performance a little, because it seems like that actor was asked really play it up. Yeah, like and it's like she deserves better than yes. I mean, what's interesting about it because when I was watching it, you know, and the ones of this, I was like, but then there's a scene where like they address it, right, he like Wayne addresses it with and he's speaking in cantonese and there's subtitles, but he's right, there's a lot unpack. Forgot that part. But he's like, I'm probably partly at fault for her behavior. And it's like, okay, well you're acknowledging it, but you're still the movie still frames her as being this like unstable. I almost found that more friend Like it was an interesting choice to address it, but then to address it and then continue to treat the character the exact same way as like, it is interesting because he started to address it and then Tia Career's character was like no, she just like the woman was kind of like you should have been more firm. She was not an ally to other women. Again, I love the story so much, but I was just like, oh, I wish that this. Looking back on the ones, you're like, oh, this, they could have handled it even still be funny, but approach differently for sure. I mean it's like even if like like if Cassandra had agreed and been like, well, you know sometimes, like it wouldn't have even really changed the scene, right, And if she was like, don't do that to me, don't like mistreat me if we're going to start dating hoping something from this experience. I totally forgot that he even addressed that because it was in cantony. I mean it's but yeah, Stacy is treated very poorly by the story and editors and all the other guys too, Like when she sees Garth, Garths like, uh yeah, he's like creeped out by her, and that like she has no bearing on the story, so she doesn't even need to be there. You could easily remove her character and nothing would change narratively. I feel like almost my theory because I don't and also I like if Stacy's ever referenced in the sketches, I don't know. She was never. I think she's a construct of the movie because these this movie, these movies are based on SNL sketches, right, I've seen some of them, but I almost like maybe they referenced other people. I was guessing they didn't. But um the fact that, like, I feel like it's almost like she was written to make Wayne seem cooler or like more desirable. It's like a way of the movie has of telling you like, well, you know, they're kind of du phasis, but they're really desirable. Do physicists, because look at this girl who's throwing herself at Wayne repeatedly. I feel like it's almost like a way for the movie too, Yeah, just say that they're cool by like creating a character who is like not being treated all right, They're like, Oh, even though this guy is like, you know, a quote unquote loser who lives in his parents basement, like he feels like he has fucked, don't worry. Disneyland just closed. I literally went to Disneyland on the last day of Disneyland. I went, don't don't know that this is a scary day. I was wondering. I was like rasing the Resistance this is the last time anyways. Um, okay, So yeah, I want to talk about Cassandra and like kind of just the romantic storyline, um that is present in this film. So starting with kind of like the romantic pursuit, I felt as though that was handled fairly well to agree. I agree in the sense that like he goes he approaches her for the first time when they're at is that place called the gas works Gasworks, and he says, hey, can I call you sometime, And she's like, well, come to this party, and you know, implied that we'll talk there. So you know, she invites him. It's not as though he's just like showing up and invited somewhere. Um. And then he goes to this party and he approaches her and says, I want to go somewhere and talk. She says yes, they chat, they start to vibe. She thinks he's funny. Um, he thinks she's hot. That's the dynamic of their relationship. But I I actually like there's one little pivot that happens in the movie at the beginning when he meets her that I think it's little, but I think it does a lot. When he sees her at the gas works, she's pretty. Obviously everybody wanted to be her. I wanted to be you know what. It's like, you want to be her. She's talented, she's singing, and then she kicks ass. She beats up a guy and he's like, WHOA. So I like that when he sees her, it's not just that she's pretty, it's that she's pretty, she's a rock star, and then she kicks two guys. Act I'm gonna I'm like, yeah, I'm going to kind of advocate for this relationship a little bit. I don't love how it's treated in a third act where she I feel like they can't. I mean, she does stand up for herself at pretty much every opportunity where it makes sense for her too, and I don't. I mean, it's like the movie. The editing of the movie has this goofy way of introducing female characters, where it's with music, it's with the slow push in um to Garth's love interest whose name is keeps Me dream Woman, and then we have the slow push into Cassandra the first time we sere and it's like part of the way the movie is stylized. That does objectify them, right, But once we meet Cassandra, she is very talented. She advocates for herself with the with the club owner. Um, she literally kicks someone else's ass before being like, hey, and you have to pay me. Um. There's a point where when she and Wayne are in bed, she has to take a call for work and he's like goofing around and being like cute, and then she's like, hey, this is a work call, like funk off, and like there's and and then at the end when Wayne goes and does like you know the reason that so many women have imposter syndrome of like, well did you consider you're getting this opportunity because he probably wants to fuck you, She's like, hey, could you be more insulting about the way you're even hear he's like you're having sex with him right, probably, And she's like, no, that's not how I get a gig. Like so, yeah, definitely standing up for herself. I like that. But then but then the way how like the the third act becomes like I don't know, like the way she almost feels not as smart. It's like she's being like who wouldn't see rob blows right, you know, which I get. I get for the plot, but yeah, it's like, why is she now becoming this like he just wants to give me a job? And then like Wayne's approach to being like oh because I and I feel like the movie is kind of telling us a little bit that Wayne is right because we know that Rob Blow is trying to like get the girl, and so it doesn't really help on that end. And then Wayne's solution to Rob Blow offering Cassandra this like opportunity and bad faith is by getting her another opportunity. But both of them are just trying to get her opportunities so that she'll be their girlfriend. And it's not because it's like I believe in your talent blah blah blah, and so I just found it discouraging. But I think because Andre is not a fault and she's awesome. Yeah, she's super kick ass. Yeah I do agree with that. And just to kind of wrap up on the conversation of like the how the romantic pursuit is handled, like because so many movies, as we already kind of hinted at and have discussed on the podcast at length, you know, have a predatory romance or a man like wearing a woman down. Um, and what Wayne is doing is sort of just the bare minimum of decency of just like hey, can I call you? Like he learns cantonese, he learned, he does learn Cantonese for her. But um, you know, I guess it was refreshing to see, even though again it's just the bare minimum. Um, but it was nice. I mean he appeared just her with respect. Oh. The other thing I was gonna say is when they go on the date to like Guitar Center or wherever the funk they go, You're like there is more than a physical drive, Like you understand why they like each other, and like yeah, Wayne is like obviously not like the coolest and like not the most desirable, and like will they be together in real life? Exquease me hot? But like, but I like that the movie takes the effort to like write a scene with them where it's like that scene where they're both speaking Cantonese. You're like, oh, there's a connection between them, and then you see like and they have stuff in common, Like this is cool. Right, So back to the how the movie handles the male gaze. I feel like, yes, it does kind of objectify the women when they're shown like these are the women that the men are interested in. But I always she has a scene where someone's like she's like she's, oh, do I frighten? You know? Do you want me to? But like, I don't know. I just felt like that was handled a little bit better than we're used to seeing. Also, because like in a few episodes, we've talked about how certain movies will use like a really exploitative, like hyper sexualized shot of a woman that like lingers all over her body. We see like a shot up her ass and like a shot of her tips and stuff like that, specifically to communicate to the audience that, like, the male protagonist of this story is attracted to this woman. Um, I think we talked about this a lot in like the sand Lot episode. It happens in Transformers and stuff, But like and we're like, well, there's there's better ways to do this. There's better ways to indicate to the audience that the man is attracted to this woman that aren't so like objectifying in male Gazey, and I thought this movie actually did a pretty good job between showing that like Wayne is attracted to Cassandra because it cuts this like fantasy dreamy shot of Cassandra while she's playing the bass on stage. We only really see shot of her kind of like torso it's pretty stationary, it's not lingering. And then like dream Weaver starts playing and we're like, oh, that's how we know he's like into her, into her. And then same thing with Garth. Sure the woman is not named, that he's in love with um and he's never work at the Don, just work behind the counter the donup shot, and like the way that we the visual indication that we know that Garth likes her is that it's just like a slow most shot of like her hair blowing in the wind, just like her shoulders up like it doesn't. It didn't feel super you know, it didn't feel male gazy really or objectifying. So I was like, oh, that actually was like handled better than we've seen before. And I think to like, with these characters, what I like about it is that they're not kind of guys like yeah, I could get the girl, like they're like, oh man, I love her, like she'd never like me. Like I feel like there's something that feels innocent and sweet about that that's like still they're doing bone er jokes and like swing like there's something keep going. I think there's something so sweet about them as characters that when you do see them, you chectifying or looking at a woman is sweet. And they're like, I could never have a girl like that, right they aren't. Yeah, they do the whole like that's just look soft into the blow a little bit. Yeah, I do have complicated feelings. But and then also like Wayne declares that Cassandra will be mine. Oh yes, she will be mine the same way he declares that that good will be his. Could you be more object Yeah, yes, yes, I'm not perfect. It's not perfect. I liked. I also liked um when when he speaks Cantonese, it seemed like that was going to go in a racist, racist, racist direction, but then it is actually dealt with from what I mean, And and for our candidate speaking listeners, let us know how you felt about it, but I like it seems you're like I was like, oh no no, because it's and that is you know, not is not above that behavior. Uh, it's nestled right in there. Yeah, it's emblematic of this time. But but then it was like dealt with pretty well you you, and and it ends up being kind of a reason that Cassandra is like, oh, this guy like is kind of it might be worth time. You kind of understand, You're like, okay, okay, yeah, I I tend to agree, but yeah, I think I need we need an outside perspective. I mean, there are some other jokes that come in later, like but then Cassandra like it's like Wayne, like she calls him out on that stupid probably you know what I mean. It's like, hey, I don't say that. Well, I couldn't help but feel there was like a weird racial thing when we see her like kick that guy's ass, and then like well then and then everybody was kung fu fighting. And then it's also like, okay, is this movie implying that like all Asian people know like martial arts, because in the second movie we meet her dad, Cassandra's dad, and there's this whole like seeing Foo parody sequence there. Oh I didn't. I honestly didn't even. I was just like, oh, she's she's cool. She that does I mean also the fact that she's the only person of color in the whole movie. Yes, yes, in the entire nobody else Nope, And it's like unfortunate that It's like like having a lead who is a woman of color is like that wasn't happening in very much, but she's completely alone um in that regard, why yeah, I get out a couple other you know. There's also an aspect of the kind of romantic storyline where and I don't know how to feel about this right now necessarily so maybe I'm going to have to talk through this. But the story becomes about Wayne not trying to fix the situation with his show after he's lost it, but about trying to like get her back. So I would have thought that, like, and it was like a few years since I rewatched this, so I didn't remember exactly how things played out at the end, and it's kind of complicated at the end does and then there's all like the alternate endings don't really help, but like the same thing happens in Wind's world to where like the premise of that movie is Wayne is trying to put on this concert called Wayne stock Um, but part of the way through the movie, he and Cassandra break up, so he has to go like win her back and stop her from marrying Christopher Walkin Sure, um, but the yeah, the story in both of these movies becomes about like, well, who cares about that other thing I was doing that's going to get sort of sidelined. I have to like focus on getting this woman who I love like back in my life, which again I don't know how to feel about that. I necessarily I just think it's like weird and confused, like I think, because it focuses the attention like on the female character, but in a way that it's like, well, he deserves her, so he has to like and win his property. And it's kind of I feel like it does nothing to go back on like Rob Lowe's bad faith thing, because like you could qualify what Wayne is doing to also be in bad faith. We know that he knows she's talented, but like he wasn't jumping to give her this opportunity he first met this guy, he jumps to give it to her when he feels like he's losing her, and so you're like that. Plus like he shows up to her film shoot which he was not invited to, and he's like, and there's no film in this camera, and then he opens it up and we're like snake joke. Oh my god. I liked I liked that. It was kind of like a one offline. But it's like Tia care shouting to Reblo. She's like, I think the snake is asleep, and you're like, oh my god. So also towards the end, there's that moment where like Wayne is trying to figure out how to win her back and Garth is like, well, I think you should just go get her, and Wayne says, I don't think she wants me to, and then Garth says, let me tell you a little something about women. They want you to come get them. They love it, and we're like, no, Garth, No, well Garth. I feel like, okay, maybe I'm just like not as attached to Garth. It's so interesting to HAPs with me that has never seen like you know what, I mean, to have seen it for the first time. It's like, Okay, I'm very attached to Dana Carvey. I'm not I'm not as attached to Garth. I feel like there is like and then maybe this is coming down on it too hard. But with Garth there is kind of that like Revenge of the nerdsy kind of like vibe of like there's a lot of and I don't even think this is a bad thing, but like for young men who are nervous to talk to, like romantic interest and all this stuff. And then you see all these Catharsis scenes and some of them are fantasy and some of them are reel of like if you're a dorky guy, don't you just wish you could taste a bully? Or like don't you just wish you could like do you know? Like I think that there's a lot of like wish fulfillment offered on Garth's part, but it still looks silly, and so you're like, I don't know what, I don't know how to feel about it. I like him, I just like there is something that I'm just like, what's going on with Garth? What's going again? In the second one, he has a match that is is identical. Oh yeah, he just he gets with a woman who looks exactly like him, exactly exactly. It's really funny. But before that he's with is that Rebecca remains Damos. That's who that is in this one. No, no no, in this and it's Kim Basinger. That's Kim Basinger. I always Kim Basinger in the second I just do that off the top of my head. I was like, whoa, yeah, Nail. And then the Garth is, uh, the sister from the Wonder Years. Oh, the woman look like look like love interest. Cute. Um, we've got to take another quick break, but we will come right back and we're bad. That was my best way asked. Pincture says, what, Oh, that's actually a good transition into talking about class stuff. For this movie, I thought it does really well. I really I thought it was really cool. Right at the very beginning, the calling cops pigs. Love that that's funny. And then and the cop is like, oh, yeah, I am a pig. He's like what you're doing you? Yeah? I think that the way like because Gartha Wayne are so goofy, and I feel like a lesser movie would be like, you know, like either poor people or people who like are you know, working paycheck to paycheck are stupid and goofy. But I think that the movie gives them so much empathy and like you love them so much, and the rich like asshole characters are so awful that it is kind of like this cool cathartic thing where you're like rooting for like these people that you would you're more likely to relate with, like these goofuses. And then you have like Rob Blow, really Rob Blow and out slicking his hair all the way back so hot in this movie. He's so horrible and I think it's the first time to everybody knew that he could really do comment Oh is it yeah? I think so. I read about this because he was like apprehensive about being in this movie because he's like, I'm not a comedy actor. I don't know how to do this, and they just, like I guess, um, Mike Myers and Dana Carvey were like, oh, just pretend, just act like your Lord Michaels and he's like, okay, that's great. Um. And then also the guy Benjamin Caine or not Benjamincaine, sorry, uh no, no vander Hoff. He is so dumb and he's so clueless, and like I think that like Mrs vander Hoff, who does not get a first name, UM does Like I mean, she comes off much the same way and she's treated like bad on a gender basis, but I like the way she was treated on a rich person basis. Like this movie just has like kind of like this eat the rich mentality. Uh, that's very pro d I y and pro like I don't know I thought that that I agree stuff. It's even like Rob Blow's interaction with Mr Vanderhoff, Like that scene where he convinces him to buy the show is so brilliant. It's like he's such and it's really good satire of like how like big corporations by little things and then destroy and speak for commercial to some of my favorite jokes in this movie, which is one Garth reading Benjamin's like daily Planner and he's like, Thursday, purchase feeble public excess show and exploit it. And then he's like, wow, I feel sorry for whoever. That is so funny. And then the product place, Oh my god. Seen we used to do that all the time, Like we would just re in everything and we would eat anything that was like a product. We would just like do and Wayne, I will not down to any corporate sponsor. And then he's like a headache eating try little Yellow Different and it's the taste of a new I mean, every single moment in that is like perfect love it and it's the isn't it star It off with like Roblo coming down and talk to to Garth and he's just like has that weird helmet on and like starts hitting. Like there's so much randomness in this movie. That's so great. Yeah, I guess like Garth is like a tech genius, Like he's building a Frankenstein, like you see a disembodied hand. And he was like, Garth, we haven't talked that. And then he's just like and like one of my favorite scenes is when not he's like having him sign the contracts and he like puts the pen. He's like, does anybody else find it weird that he just shows up with contract this? Okay? The like commercial like satire scene and that scene that you're talking about Marine reminded me so much of Josie the Pussycats, which comes later. But there's that scene where the band Josie and her bandmates go into the bathroom and they're like, isn't it so weird that they're just like they haven't even heard us play, but they're like signing us to a record deal and they're like nah. And then that whole movie is just like one moment of product placement after the next. I was like, oh, this is I probably loved Josine the Pussycast so much because I was so attached to Wayne's world. It does have the same energy I've never seen Jose. Oh, it is it is. It's just perfect. Yeah, I don't know why it wasn't my Wayne's world is great and it's better than Wayne's world. Yeah what, Yeah, I don't know about that. That's funnier, it's better. Um. And also Wayne, where's his own merch? Which we do? We did? We get it? Yes? Um. I wanted to talk a little bit about the director, Um, Penelope Spheres. So this movie was directed by women, which is one thing I didn't know in seventh grade. But I kind of love that it became one of my favorite because it's like, there's not many movies directed by women, or there weren't many that I feel like I connected with and I did, and I didn't realize that it was directed by women, So I think it's such a great I had the same experience. Yeah. Um. She also directed such films as Black She, Little Rascals, and Beverly Hillbilly's Wow. I knew she did Little Rascal And the movie was also co written by a woman, Bonnie Turner, who returns and co writes the sequel, but Penelope's first was not asked back to direct to Yes, So basically she and Mike Myers had some issues. The main things seemed to be and it was all Shrek's fault. The main thing seemed to be that she was so insistent on shooting the Bohemian Rhapsody scene in the Marthmobile, which Mike Myers didn't think would be funny. Um, even though I became the iconic moment of the movie. He also complained about like the headbanging in that scene, like hurting his neck, and he's like he like had a fit one day and he's like, I can't move my neck like that. Why do we have to do this so many times? No one's gonna laugh at this. And then he also through a fit because, um, there was no margarine for his bagel on its craft services one day. But these are the these are the legends of the Waynes World set. I mean, there's this is just a small part of it, I think, but um so, yeah, there was some issues between the director and um Mike Myers because of that. And then the other big thing seems to be that they had issues over the final cut of the movie, where Mike Myers wanted it to be recut, Penelope Spiris did not, so she was not and that's it seems to be the main reason she was not asked back to direct the sequel. Do we know if the version is her version or was it a recut version? Do we know? I don't know for sure. Um, I can't tell. But Penelope Spis has been pretty like outspoken about this in the ensuing years, especially as it has become more quote unquote okay for women to talk about these things. Um, so we appreciate. I mean, that's like kudos to her because it's like you have to imagine there there are a million stories like this and women are so I mean, especially in comedy. At this time, no women were directing, and so for one of the I mean, it's just I feel like further proof to like, you can be working at the top of your craft. She like, no comedy was doing better than Wayne's World, and that still wasn't enough to keep wrote I could be mistaken. I think she wrote an article a couple of years ago about how like she had an interesting time in the industry where she did this and then she did Little Rascals and every Little Billies and then kind of went dry and she it's like she was making she was she was directing like huge movies that made money and that were like big, and then it's she did she made what ended up being a flop, which was but women only get one flop, and she she spoke, she speaks to this a lot um. The movie was I think senseless. Senseless didn't do very well, and she was like, yeah, I got put in like director's jail. So she's been quite outspoken about this because she's making studio films. My favorite headline that went with this was Wayne's World director Peneloples fairies on leaving Hollywood behind, they can blow me. And then she's like, that's a quote printed headline. Do wit um, And yeah, she's spoken out about how, you know, women are not often given second chances in Hollywood, especially if they make a mistake or they direct a movie that underperforms at the box off of this, like who knows what happened with that movie. It could have been like not her mistakes, um. And then she goes on to say, you know, uh, you know, male directors can get arrested for like having coke or drunk driving, or they direct flops and they're right and they're given tons more chances. Um. She's also talked about how like she had to take whatever jobs she was offered because as a woman, she didn't get offered that much, so she couldn't really be choosy about what she did. So she you know, just kind of took anything that came her way. Also, she was um forty five when she was hired to direct Wayne's World. And she's a real hero for real, she is. She she's advocating for people. That's so badass. She turned the So the movie had a twenty million dollar budget and ended up ended up grossing a hundred million dollars domestically. I think it was close to like a hundred eighty million worldwide. Um, And she has become one of only a handful of women who have directed a movie that grossed over a hundred million dollars. Wow, the elite club, I know. And really like a cult classic, I mean a cult classic about like, so for a woman to direct a movie about men who like love rock and roll, like it's a comedy. Yeah, this was like unheard of and still not really happening. Hasn't really happened again, and it was I think her background in directing documentary about like music and metal and rock and stuff that like she was approached for the US but um yeah, yeah, when this town should have been championed her, they were. They were trying to knock it down. Yeah. Not cool. The other thing that we haven't talked about the movie, I just wonder what you guys thought was the portrayal of like like a queer. If you're going to do like a queer reading on this, yes, okay, so I have a little bit about this. Thanks for bringing this up. So so many comedy movies throughout the years have relied on punching down right and just like making fun of different people, different groups of marginalized people as like the source of their humor. I feel like this movie mostly avoids that. Although it's not perfect, it does do better than you'd expect of a comedy from their early nineties, right, But there are the one thing that I noticed are one of the main things I noticed was there are a lot of like no homo moments. There's this one guy on their like crew, Terry, who keeps going around to the different men friends of his and says like I love you. He has met with varying responses. Wayne will be like, um, yeah, I love you too, like he's creeped out about it. He says it to Garth then and Garth is just like thank you. Um. He says it to Rustle later on in the movie and Russell is just like okay, whatever, and a car crash almost ensues from there, and then Rustles, I guess his arc at the end of the film, he's like, I've learned that platonic love can exist between two grown men. Um. And then there's also like the cop that they meet is always talking about like doing cavity searches and like, I guess, reaching into a man's asshole. And then you get that look from Rablow basically to camera where it's like he literally gives if you could communicate the phrase no homo with your eyes, he does, and when he gets to the house, he like has a weird he's walking yeah yeah, where it's like that's not that um yeah. So there's there's all these moments very of its time, but I agree it's like not as like not that it's not bad, but it's like it doesn't it's not as bad as you would expect, but it's still not okay that it was there at all. Yeah. On the other side of that, I do think that Garth and Wayne's friendship is pretty positive portrayal of male friendship. There are examples of like, I mean, Garth gives Wayne that horrible advice about like no do stock a woman? Um there there, I bet. But I did find it generally encouraging that when they had a conflict, Garth told Wayne how he was feeling right away, and they like, they've gotten an argument about it, but they they did talk about it, and it's like the fact that you know, a man communicating to another man his feelings on screen is like kind of a big deal. But it did feel like that, like they did that a lot. Yeah, where they're just like did you ever think about this? Yeah? Are you attracted to bugs body? When he puts on a dress, And then Wayne was like non, me neither. It's like, okay, we all know that money is hot and a chance to drag bugs bunny, which is like I think, a very common. It's very common. Aren't there with them? Are you asking if you thought maybe there was any sort of like homo romantic undertones. No, I think just like the portrayal of like I Love You like, I think that because it would have been interesting if it was just like the explanation at the end about like platonic love is okay, like we're just making sure that you know, no one was. It does even feel very of its era in that way where it's just like, okay, relax, like it's okay. But also they're not wrong. Platonic love is exist and it's okay, okay to like show your emotions with your male friends, okay, to say the way it's presented feels like yeah, And I do like that, like yeah, they like mental each other, they love each other, and that they and they mean it and maybe they shouldn't have called that much much attention to it of like will look at this, but like, I don't know for its time, it's it's steward. It's stewing, okay. In terms of I think the way that the masculinity has portrayed through their friendships, I thought, but I think it does hold up pretty well, and I think it would be interesting because I do. I think about Wayne's World two that's not directed by woman, and I don't think it probably would do as well. I think there are some changes made in Wayne's world to that kind of get things a little wrong that Wayne's world one gets more right. Yes, I agree. Here's something I never noticed until this rewatch. Garth orders a jelly donut at the diner. And then this is towards the beginning of the movie, and then we see him drinking the jelly out of the donut with a straw, and I was like, that is commonly gold. But the movie, get the movie, there's so many like subtle things that are just like a look or like that or um, what's his name, Bundy? You know he owns the donut shop Stanmkey does on the show. You know, he starts talking about in the in the heat. More Over, like the self reflective stuff in the movie is like I never even thought about it when I watched it, but it is like such an interesting device that not many movies can pull off, and it pulls it off so well. I was, yeah, that was impressive, O'Neil. I don't. I think it does kind of uh, but I mean, certainly in terms of like a nineties movie, it does better than you think it will, right, Well, I guess I'm curious because you do a birth fairy attached to it. Were you going into this like kind of like, oh, no, I hope that this movie isn't secretly horrible to everybody? Yes, And how did you feel going out? I was like, wow, I don't have to hate this movie. No, I was. I was if this movie is like just horrible, I'm going to be crushed because it is such. It did shape me so much and I feel like, again, me and my group of friends girlfriends were like, this is like one of our most quoted this and like Pee Wee's Big Adventure, I feel like the most quoted movies in our friend group. So I was like, no, I hope it's just didn't just like ruin us completely, and I don't think that it did. I think it does hold up. And just looking at the lens now, it's like, Okay, yeah, it's not perfect, but again by standards like none of the women talked to each other so well that to the backdel test um, yes, I would say this as a not pass I do not believe women are even really ever in the same room or seen together. The words there one with with Cassandra and Stacy's in the background making there in the same space and they're talking about and they're talking about her. They never speak to each other. There's a few moments where like women will drive up in a convertible and they're like, hey, Wayne, you're Wayne from Wayne's World, right? Who party on? Are talking about? Wayne? Also, those moments just served to again, do I think what the Stacy character functions as it's just being like, look how hot and cool everyone thinks. Also, that's weird. The movie starts. It is interesting. When I was watching, I was like, oh, it starts with Rob Low in bed with Ione Sky. Oh, I don't know who that is. She's from saying anything, and it's like her idea and he like takes her idea, he takes credit for it. Didn't even connect that, yeah, and like they're just like he's just in bed with her, never see her again. And she's like, you haven't been into Shaky's in a while, and he's like just producing television. She's like, these guys are great, and like gives him the idea. Yes, God, she should got a finder's fee, she should have a percentage of that. He basically stole this woman's idea. Typical and then at the end he just like kisses her to make her forget about Yeah, he's like, oh what if I you damn it boy. But I'm like, oh wow, it's like none of the women. Yeah, as far as it's representation of women, um, it's not great. And I would argue, I mean, even though even though I love Cassandra and I think she has a lot of strong traits, I don't think that she necessarily has a lot of agency in the story. We don't see her moving the story forward on her own in any meaningful way. And there's nothing she really does that disrupts other than falls for Rob blows trick. Basically, there's nothing she does that meaningfully impacts the plot. And I feel like, even though she is a very strong, cool romantic love interest, plot wise, she's she's not very often moving the plot forward, and she's more supporting whatever Wayne's doing. She also is I mean, that was one of the first interracial romantic relationships I had ever seen on screen in a movie, So that's not nothing. Yeah, I mean I feel like I think at the time, you're just like, she's so cool, she's like really talented, she's strong, So I think like in that maybe a that time period, it's like, well, there weren't really that many kind of cool kick ass love interest like that, and then she just became you know, like two careers like so cool. But yeah, looking back on it now, you're like she kind of also is like this like dream girl, like almost like fetishized a little bit about like you know, it's like, oh okay, now again through the lens of like in a way, she's a little bit of like a just a fantasy yeah bit, but again I wanted to be hurt. Yeah, I mean she's cool. Yeah, and Jamie, I think she loses even more agency in the sequel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The second one is funny, but I feel like it. I think it's an interesting watch because I'm going to watch it tonight. It's it's troublesome because I just rewatched it the other day. But like, yeah, like I said, her her father comes in and he's like, I will decide who you marry, Cassandra, and like she like so any agency she had in terms of her like I guess romantic partner is like completely stripped of her, like for the sake of a joke. That is bad and race this, Yeah, I mean there's a lot. Actually, I would say, like the second one, they add another like a race. In the second one I think is probably an issue. They add another character that's like a Native American. Yeah, all right, he goes on like a walk about and like he's just like an imaginary. It's like not good. Yeah, It's like, how did you worse on some of these tomes. It's almost like they should have let Penelope like directed how about that? No, it does not even remotely pass the backtal testing. And I think that a lot of female characters we see on screen are never even given names. I think that Cassandra maybe the only woman with the first name Stacy Stacy Cassandra and Stacy, and those are kind of the only two women. And it's like and then you have a miss is a mrs and his wife Yes, and a dream and then the girl on the bed yes, and then girl who's million Dolla takes stone from her at the top of the movie. Is how she's credit it. I'm pretty sure, Well let's write it on her nipple scale zero to five nipples based on its representation of women. Um, yeah, it's not good. So it's maybe like because it handles like it's approach to comedies so much better than it's not. Like it's not contemptful or contemptuous of women, but it doesn't feel the need to include them in any meaningful way. Really, aside from Cassandra, who, like we discussed, isn't given much agency. We never really we understand why she likes Wayne, which is that he makes her laugh, which is like boring snooze Like yeah, it's like, can't she be funny? Also like give her some jokes like may like can't that be part of it? Um? I don't like that. I mean whatever I mean. I guess that narrative is true for some people. But my mom would always be like I married you because he made you laugh. I'm like, well, guess what, You're divorced. See how that worked out for you? My mom in my you know, mom and Dad's crumbling marriage. Um, my mom is the funny one and my dad has no personality whatsoever. So you know, I don't we see more of that this movie if you flipped all of the gender, Like, would anybody buy it? Like, let's remake it? I'm in funny. Women with boring partners need a better representation on screen. Yeah, Wanda's World. Where's the reboot? So just a new original. Yeah, it's like that deals with the same themes like your movie, which we'll get to in a moment. But okay, so nipple scale, I'm gonna give it, like, I guess, like a one and a half, maybe a two because that's too high. I'll give it a one and a half with like also with the caveat that it is not contemptuous of women. It's just a movie about like cool dudes who like swing all the time, you know so, But I still love it, So one and a half. I'll give one nipple to Garth's lookalike lady in the sequel, and I'll give my half nipple to Garth's lookalike dog from the first movie. I'll do one and a half as well. I like Cassandra. I think that it's like, really, there's a lot of good stuff there. I wish she had gotten to do more and motivate more and had a woman to talk to. Stacy character very badly represents women. Um, the other women are kind of just throwing themselves at Wayne or having their ideas stolen. Uh So that's not great. But the fact that Penelope Spheres is at the helm of this um doing what no one else was doing UM at this time and doing it very successfully, and that she's continued to speak out on behalf of other creators. And there's a female writer. There's a lot going on here that is, like I think, like really progressive in a way that is like interest and because it's not a way that in a way that is like the movie doesn't draw attention to that, it just is really fucking good, and especially in a movie that's so meta and draws attention to other aspects of just storytelling and moviemaking inside the movie. And I like and I really like that, Like there are there there's an iconic movie about a pair of men that's directed by a woman. Point Break is the only one other one I can think of, because you get a different like and men have been able to direct how women's stories go for so long that it is like cool to see what you know indirectly or not, but like what a female perspective on a male friendship is and it's usually healthier And for a movie that ends up being this influential, that's like important. So I think that there's a lot going I mean one and a half and I'm almost tempted to give it too, but I'll stick at one and a half and I'll give one to Cassandra and then half a nip ball to that. Yeah, that the woman whose idea was still on. Yeah, yeah, I you know, I think I'm going to go with it too, just because I agree with all the stuff you're saying. And I think Stacy's not great, you know, that's like probably the biggest like if they maybe had just made her different. But I think the fact that it was directed by a woman and that it isn't there's no like meanness. I mean there is, but not like it's not. It doesn't harp on it. Um. And so also that it's just one of my favorite movies. And I'm like, I can't, I can't not, but I wish that it had to have more women in it, or that they had maybe had some conversations or more crucial although um, the whole the end of this movie is Wayne like setting up his girlfriend for success. He's like, I want, I'm gonna have you play in front of Mr Sharp so that you can get a record deal. Like he's not really trying to he's not advocating for himself. He's like, here, Cassandra, you you get this record deal. It's not also problematic that he saves her. He got it for her. I mean, should I go back to when he got it? He got it for her. But like in a time where men had to advocate for women liked no one else was vouching for women, and they didn't have their own power. We don't have enough power to do it ourselves. No one was listening to us. I think I'll give it a too. Also because of when he sees her, and I like the fact that it's not just she's a vapid pretty girl, that she's talented, she's a rock star. She demands money, and she kicks us so all in the first scene, all in the first scene. That's why he likes her. Yeah, you know, God, I love this woman. He says, well, Maureen, thank you so much for being here. Tell us what you'd like to plug and where can people follow you online? How about your um so Golden Arm is my movie starring Mary holland Betsy Siddhara. They're so funny there, Actually that suppose it would be perfect to do Wayn's World because I feel like I hope and I know that once this movie comes out, it's going to be a cult classic because Mary and Betsy together as a duo is incredible, and um, I think it is like jumping off from like loving Wayne's World or Tommy Boy or at like Adam Sallem was like these great Lavern Sureley, like these great duos, and that's what this movie kind of celebrates. It's it's basically a movie about two friends that will find each other again. Um. Kind of. It's a calf road trip, half arm wrestling sports comedy. Um. And the cast is just like it's a ton of women like dom marae Jones, Kate Flannery, Don Luby, a part Naturla rounds it out with like Ron Funches, Eugene Cardero, my Barucha. It's just a really rich fabric of women and it definitely would pass the backdel test. Um did they do? The women talk about arm wrestling, They talk about arm wrestling, they talk about their dreams, their fears, it passes. They talk about a lot of stuff. Um. But yeah, it's just I think it's really I'm really proud of it and I think that um, once it comes out. I hope that Mary and Betsy getting into the lexicon of like those those classic yessh Crest comedy duos. That's amazing. Yeah, it was supposed to play at south By Southwest but we got canceled. But just follow me on Instagram at more in Baruccia. UM and Golden Arm the movie, and I'm sure it'll pop up somewhere else. We got some plump, we cut some stuff in the works. Good, good, glad to hear it. Um. You can follow us on social media at Bechtel Cast. We've got our Matreon, Patreon dot com slash becktel Cast. Five dollars a month gets you to bonus episodes. Um, we've got merchant t public dot com. Slash the Bechtel Cast right and review us on your podcast platforms. Give us five nips and party on Shaw Wing excellent Pandemic Wing. Bye