AvTalk Episode 294: Please don’t shoot at the planes

AVT 294 Transcript
EPISODE 294
[EPISODE]
[0:00:07] IP: Hello and welcome to Episode 294 of AvTalk. I am Ian Petchenik, here, as always
with –
[0:00:16] JR: Jason Rabinowitz. Hello, Ian. How are you?
[0:00:19] IP: Hello, Jason. I'm well. I'm just back from the vaccine jabbings, so I'm sitting here
with some sore arms. As we alluded to last week, I am nowhere near a sore as you are, good
sir. How are you doing?
[0:00:33] JR: Yes. I feel like, I have been punched in the face by an oral surgeon, because it's
basically what happened. I had a couple wisdom teeth removed last Thursday, and I am still
very much feeling it. Do not recommend.
[0:00:48] IP: Are you feeling less wise?
[0:00:49] JR: Every day. That's a pre-existing condition, though.
[0:00:55] IP: Oh, all right. Let's get into the aviation news. This week, three aircraft from three
separate airlines, at least so far that we know of, were struck by gunfire, while attempting to land
in Port-au-Prince Haiti.
[0:01:14] JR: What? That's not good.
[0:01:16] IP: That's not good at all.
[0:01:17] JR: No. The crazy thing is, I think we talked about this privately.
[0:01:21] IP: It’s not the first time.
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AVT 294 Transcript
[0:01:22] JR: This has happened before. Recently, too. Do you happen to recall who it was?
[0:01:26] IP: It was a SmartLynx A321, but I'm not sure who they were operating for.
[0:01:32] JR: On behalf of, yeah. This was not great. In the case of this version of the incident,
it was Spirit, JetBlue, and American aircraft, again, that we know of, with Spirit triggering batch
Port-au-Prince wards there. For lack of better terminology, Spirit triggering –
[0:01:53] IP: Instigating. Instigating.
[0:01:54] JR: Instigating. Well, I don't know if they instigated, but they were the straw that broke
the camel's back here, bringing this to people's attention, because the bullet pierced not just the
skin of the aircraft, but into the cabin and actually injured a flight attendant, I believe. That
aircraft did not land in Haiti. I believe it went over to Dominican Republic, was it?
[0:02:13] IP: Yeah, Santiago in the Dominican Republic.
[0:02:15] JR: Yeah. That aircraft, I believe, is still there. Spirit shuttled another aircraft over
from, I believe, South Florida, somewhat one of their hubs.
[0:02:23] IP: Fort Lauderdale.
[0:02:25] JR: Fort Lauderdale. Brought the passengers back to Fort Lauderdale, because US
airlines are no longer allowed to operate to Haiti. An FAA emergency safety NOTAM issued,
declares that no US airline outside of very emergency situations is allowed to fly in Haitian
airspace below 10,000 feet at this point. It is in place for 30 days. Though, I would not be
surprised, given the conditions there, if this was extended indefinitely.
[0:02:55] IP: I mean, yeah. At least on a rolling basis. As Jason mentioned, the Spirit flight was
struck by gunfire, and the flight attendant that was injured, we’re not sure at this point. At least I
haven't seen anything definitive, whether the flight attendant was struck by the bolt, which I don't
think, or struck by debris in the cabin, which I believe was the case, because it didn't sound like
they were seeking dire medical attention.
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AVT 294 Transcript
[0:03:20] JR: No, no.
[0:03:21] IP: But it sounded like they did need to go to a hospital. The interesting thing, and I
want to bring this up, is JetBlue had their aircraft inspected upon return to New York. They did a
round trip from New York to Port-au-Prince, and then returned to New York, and they
investigated the aircraft when it returned, and found that it had also been struck by gunfire.
American Airlines, after having heard that this was a thing, let their aircraft fly for a few more
flights before looking at the aircraft, and then finding that it had also been struck by a bullet.
[0:04:00] JR: Ah, what's one extra hole in the fuselage on top of potentially damaged
components that could become a real problem at any moment? It's probably fine.
[0:04:08] IP: It's probably fine. Thankfully, it was, and they've taken the aircraft out of service for
a couple of days to patch it. I wonder, do you have to follow the path and see if the bullet's still in
there?
[0:04:19] JR: I would guess, you have to follow the path to see, like I alluded to, what it could
have potentially damaged along the way. Did it nick a hydraulic line, or a fuel line, or an
electrical line? Did it take insulation off an electrical line that could result in arcing later down the
road? Yeah. I guess, they'd have to go all CSI Miami International Airport on that aircraft and
figure out, trace the path of the bullet, enhance, enhance, enhance, and then take some
pictures and enhance some more. Yeah, see what it could have done. Because we did see
pictures, I believe it was a Spirit aircraft, where the bullet went through the fuselage, went
through the four of the cabin, hit an overhead bin, and then it went somewhere.
[0:05:01] IP: If you want to follow that particular aircraft, it's still in the Dominican Republic. The
registration for that aircraft is N966NK. That's an A321neo. Unfortunately, Spirit’s down another
A320neo.
[0:05:18] JR: Yeah. They couldn't have been one of the COs that it's about to give away, or sell
for a dime. That's too bad.
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AVT 294 Transcript
[0:05:25] IP: Apparently, not. Yeah, like Jason mentioned, the FAA has issued an emergency
NOTAM. The airport is effectively closed anyway, given that people were shooting at aircraft.
Not a great situation, though not entirely, I guess, unexpected at this point, as basically gangs
have taken over the city and are vying for territory and control, which includes the airport. One
of the other things, and this was part of an ops group bulletin for dispatchers and pilots and
operators of aircraft, commercial and private as well, that there's a possibility that air traffic
control services may not be available, because the air traffic controllers are not safe. That's
another thing to layer on top of all the things that are happening. Not great and glad that there
were no truly dire injuries for any of these flights, and the three that we know about and who
knows how many more there could be. Jason, let's turn our attention to Spirit Airlines' financial
situation, which is continuing to be worse and worse as the day goes on.
[0:06:42] JR: Yeah, not kidding when we said before that Spirit really could have used one of its
aircraft that it was about to sell to raise some capital, rather than losing yet another NEO.
Because once again, it looks like, talks with Frontier about some merger have broken down,
according to the Wall Street Journal and Spirit Airlines is preparing to file for bankruptcy
protection. Unfortunately, we don't know what is going to happen. This is not almost certainly not
the case where the airline will cease to exist overnight. They'll restructure, they'll figure out what
to do with their debt, and it's going to hurt a lot. It is not going to be a good time for the airline, or
any of the employees for the airline, or any of its contractors or suppliers, but Spirit is in real bad
shape right now.
[0:07:29] IP: Yeah. This was reported by the Wall Street Journal late Tuesday, I believe the 12th.
We're recording Wednesday as we normally do. By the time the podcast comes out, they could
have already made their filing. They've already missed their reporting deadline for the third
quarter financial reporting. It seems likely at this point that we'll be talking about what a Spirit
bankruptcy does, in fact, look like come as early as next week on the podcast. We'll keep an
eye on it and see what we see.
[0:08:02] JR: Yeah, really bad. Wall Street Journal says that the operating profit margin for the
third quarter of this year was 12 percentage points lower than the same period a year ago,
which is nuts. Also, we've talked about this before, revenue is down 61 million in part,
completely, because of the changes to its business model that they'll no longer charging a
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AVT 294 Transcript
change, or cancellation fee, specifically in reaction to Frontier doing the same. If Frontier's goal
was to muscle out its biggest competitor, mission accomplished, I guess.
[0:08:36] IP: Yeah. From Spirit Airlines to Spirit AeroSystems. Spirit AeroSystems, last week we
talked about how they were in also not great financial shape. This week, Boeing announced that
it will give Spirit AerSystems a loan, sort of, kind of.
[0:08:55] JR: Yeah, okay. I saw this reported by Jon Ostrower on Blue Sky. Apparently,
repayment begins in April 2026, as he notes, is a date when Spirit is no longer expected to exist.
That's curious. I guess, it's a loan –
[0:09:14] IP: Why won't Spirit AeroSystems exist any longer?
[0:09:17] JR: Because it is being absorbed by Boeing, the lender here in this case. It's really
hard to call something a loan if you have no reasonable expectation that you're ever going to
get that money back. It's more of a cash infusion to make sure that your primary supplier doesn't
die before you have a chance to buy it. Is that what's going on here?
[0:09:38] IP: I'm giving future me money.
[0:09:40] JR: Yes. I'm sure there is a very reasonable legal reason why Boeing has to call it a
loan and not cash infusion. There's this probably a tax implication. I don't know. There always is.
It's just very funny to say, “We're going to give Spirit AeroSystems a loan, due in two and a half
years, even though won’t be closing that deal.”
[0:09:59] IP: Years before they wholly owned – Yeah, subsidiary once again. Yeah, no. I mean,
they need the cash and they're going to get that. I mean, we assumed that this would happen.
It's just interesting that this is how they're structuring it as a loan.
[0:10:13] JR: Nobody's ever offered us a loan for 350 million dollars that we don't have to pay
back. How do we get that?
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AVT 294 Transcript
[0:10:19] IP:  That's a good question. We're going to work on that. If you have any – No, I'm
kidding. Don't email us with loan opportunities. But we did ask last week for a Spirit Halloween
themed podcast, or explainer about what was going on there. So many of you came through.
Nearly all of you recommended that 99% invisible Spirit Halloween episode that came out a few
weeks ago. We'll toss a link to that in the show notes in case anyone else was wondering what
they should do as far as enlightening themselves as to how Spirit Halloween makes its money
and makes it through the season. Thank you again for all the listeners who emailed us to
provide us that information. There were a surprisingly large number of you.
[0:11:10] JR: Wow.
[0:11:13] IP: The Trent 1000 issues that we've been talking, well, Jason, we've been talking
about them as long as we've been doing the podcast.
[0:11:21] JR: Longer, in fact. I'm sure if I look at our iMessage chat history, this dates back to
prehistoric dinosaur times.
[0:11:28] IP: When we were still using ICQ, Aim. I don't even know. The airlines continue to be
impacted by these engine issues, supply issues, reliability issues. We've talked about BA's
recent issues. Now, we're moving on to another UK carrier, Virgin Atlantic. They are making
additional changes to their route network and their fleets, because of the lack of Rolls-Royce
Trent 1000 engines. Virgin Atlantic is postponing the relaunch of its Tel Aviv service, which I'm
not sure how much they can completely blame on the engine issues.
[0:12:10] JR: Yeah, that one seems convenient.
[0:12:10] IP: That part feels a little convenient. The new Accra, Ghana service that they
announced that was supposed to start on the 1st of May will now be pushed back until the IATA
winter season, so October 26th of 2025. They've said that the availability of the Trent 1000
engines on their 787-9s is what's holding them back there.
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[0:12:37] JR: There's more, too. Aviation Week reports that Virgin was going to launch a route
to Sau Paulo, Brazil, but it's no longer doing that as previously planned. They were going to start
that initially in May 2024 and that didn't happen, I guess. Now, it continues to not happen.
[0:12:52] IP: Yeah. I mean, that's not great. On the British Airways side, British Airways had
been using its 777s to backfill the 787 capacity. That hit the snag that we talked about a couple
of weeks ago, where if you use an aircraft, you have to maintain it. They had to bring the 777s in
from maintenance, because they had been using them more. They improved the dispatch
reliability of the A380.
[0:13:19] JR: How?
[0:13:20] IP: Great news. If you could do that, why did you not do that previously? I'm sure
there's a good reason.
[0:13:27] JR: There is always a good reason. I'd imagine it wasn't as easy as going onboard
and turning the dispatch reliability screw a quarter turn to the right. It's probably a whole bunch
of very complicated things, because the A380 is a beast that requires lots of particular and
specific things to make work. I really do wonder what they change to increase the reliability.
Remember, they never intended to bring these back. These were grounded during COVID. Not
only are they back, but they're needed more than ever.
[0:13:59] IP: Bring them back and put them into service as much as you possibly can. Good for
them for –
[0:14:05] JR: If things get bad enough, BA might have to dip into the desert and pull back some
747-400s that were mothballed real quick. They're out there.
[0:14:14] IP: I don't want things to be that bad.
[0:14:19] JR: But?
[0:14:22] IP: But I wouldn't be mad if they did that.
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[0:14:24] JR: No. Whichever ones haven't been turned into hotels, or event spaces, or beer
cans. They're out there. Wouldn't hate it.
[0:14:35] IP: I mean, if you had to fly in the back of one, you might.
[0:14:37] JR: Remember, BA refurbished a good chunk of them –
[0:14:41] IP: That's true. That's true.
[0:14:42] JR: Specifically, and only served JFK. Then they were basically immediately retired.
They're not bad. They're out there. I flew on one, I think in late 2019. It's a nice ride. Definitely in
business class, at least not up to the standards of the rest of BA's nice fleet now.
[0:14:59] IP: Fair enough. Okay. We've talked about the Rolls-Royce Trent engines. Now, let's
move over and talk about the Pratt & Whitney geared turbofan engines. Those continue to be
troublesome, shall we say. Air New Zealand, a Pratt & Whitney geared turbofan customer who
has suffered mightily under the broken engine, or unreliable engine issues, they're somewhat
taking matters into their own hands. They're opening up another geared turbofan MRO line in
Christchurch.
[0:15:34] JR: Yeah. I guess, you got to do what you got to do. Reported by Aviation Week
again. I guess, a lot of my news is coming from Aviation Week right now, since they migrated
over to Blue Sky and I think Flight Global has not yet. It's all good. The 14,000 square meter
expansion, estimated cost of 150 million, I assume that is US dollars. Construction work is due
to start now. The first GTF overhaul is not started to begin until the fourth quarter of 2026, that
is. But it will give the capacity for up to 100 GTF overhauls per year by 2032. This isn't exactly a
short-term solution for an immediate problem. This is a long-term solution for an industry-wide
prolonged problem. If they can make a buck out of it and fix someone else's broken engines,
why not?
[0:16:26] IP: I mean, Lufthansa’s been doing it for years.
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[0:16:29] JR: Yeah. Works out well for them. I did want to call out this fun quote from Marty St.
George, the CEO of JetBlue now, who was quoted at the Skift Airline Conference this week by
saying, “You show me a Pratt & Whitney customer and I'll show you an unhappy customer.”
Those are strong words coming from a rather high-up individual. Man, that's not even a hot take
anymore, is it? That's just –
[0:16:55] IP: That's just how it is.
[0:16:55] JR: That's just fact.
[0:16:57] IP: That's just how it is. You did promote Marty, though. I'm not saying he shouldn't be
CEO, but you did promote him president to CEO.
[0:17:04] JR: Yeah. My bad. Well, maybe just a suggestion. Suggestion.
[0:17:08] IP: I'm not saying I'd be upset about this. I'm just saying that I don't want angry emails.
[0:17:13] JR: See, this is why I shouldn't read directly off social media, because when I was
reading off, said CEO. I'm like, that doesn't sound right, but it says it on the screen, so I'm going
to read it. Maybe one day.
[0:17:27] IP: Fair enough. All right, let's go to Colombia, where Jason and I are absolutely not
flying Aerosucre.
[0:17:36] JR: I don't think we have a choice, because we're not a box.
[0:17:40] IP: No. No. Just no. I wouldn't.
[0:17:43] JR: You wouldn’t even want them flying your –
[0:17:44] IP: Get on another plane.
[0:17:45] JR: - empty box is what you're saying.
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[0:17:47] IP: No. No.
[0:17:48] JR: No. One of their 727s. Yes, you heard that right. A 727. Impacted runway
equipment. I think it was the ILS array at the runway threshold. Apparently, flight 327 from
Bogota didn't quite get off the runway when it needed to. Yet, again, went right through some
ILS antennas. Thankfully, the aircraft was damaged, but was able to return in one piece. But that
has not always been the case for this airline. We will link to the list of incidents. This is like –
[0:18:22] IP: Because you said, yet again, Jason. Like it’s happened before.
[0:18:26] JR: It has happened before. This airline is basically an aviation museum that is still
operating. All of its recent incidents have been 737-200 freighters, 727-200 freighters, dating all
the way back to the 1970s when, what aircraft were they operating, Ian?
[0:18:46] IP: This was a Curtiss Commando.
[0:18:48] JR: What did you describe it to me as before we started recording?
[0:18:51] IP: I mean, the Curtiss Commando could charitably be described as a DC-3 with
allergies.
[0:18:57] JR: It has some inflammation.
[0:18:59] IP: They're still in service. Not a lot, but there's a couple still in service up in Alaska. I
mean, they're a great aircraft. That's not to say that they're not great aircraft, but also, they're
not new.
[0:19:11] JR: No.
[0:19:12] IP: They weren't new then.
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[0:19:14] JR: No. It's remarkable that the Colombian regulators still allow this airline to operate.
I think if this was anywhere else in the world, they would be long since disbanded, and the
aircraft donated to local schools and firefighting training missions.
[0:19:33] IP: Their fleet, the youngest aircraft in their fleet is 31-years-old. The oldest aircraft in
their fleet is 44-years-old. That's a 727-200 freighter. They have 737-200s, 737-300, a 737-300,
and a pair of 737-400s. Not a huge fleet, but like Jason said, it's not young. All of the incidents
and accidents that have happened have not been because the aircraft are old, or I shouldn't say
all, but when you read the reports, they just don't fly good.
[0:20:15] JR: No.
[0:20:15] IP: By they, I mean, the people that work for this airline.
[0:20:18] JR: No. Whether it's miscalculating the weight of cargo, or doors opening in-flight, or
hydraulic issues, or flying into the ILS array at the end of the runway, this airline seems to run
the gamut of things that you shouldn't do. But you can't blame the aircraft for it, probably.
[0:20:36] IP: It boggles my mind how they're still in business. Just absolutely boggles my mind.
Shall we go to Europe and talk about the fact that ITA Airways is ever so closer to selling 41% of
itself to Lufthansa? There was a hold on the deal this week as Lufthansa Group and the Italian
Treasury seemed to have some disagreement that Reuters described as between 10 and 200
million dollars difference.
[0:21:07] JR: Oh, is that it?
[0:21:09] IP: What's some pocket change between friends? The list of remedies that Lufthansa
is preparing to offer in order to get the deal to go through with the European Union has now
been provided via the Italian government. It sounds like, whatever issues they were having have
been resolved. Maybe they settled somewhere between 10 and 200 million dollars.
[0:21:35] JR: Yeah. Just bring back Alitalia. I just want the Alitalia. They have to come back.
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[0:21:39] IP: They are, kind of.
[0:21:40] JR: Well, I want it as the actual name of the airline. Not it's brought to you by Alitalia. I
want Alitalia.
[0:21:46] IP: It'll happen eventually. You know what else I want back?
[0:21:50] JR: Have you lost a bag?
[0:21:50] IP: A lost bag.
[0:21:51] JR: Recently?
[0:21:52] IP: No, I haven't. But I thought it was a good transition.
[0:21:55] JR: It was a good transition. If you have lost, or not – well, it's probably not you losing
a bag. You've done nothing wrong. You are an expert traveler. You know what you're doing and
you're prepared. That's why you put an Apple air tag in your bag. Ever since COVID, even if you
put an air tag in your bag, the process of getting that bag back, even if you knew exactly where
it was and held your phone up to the face of a bag representative at an airline and said, “It's
right over there. I promise you, just go get it.” They looked at you and said, “It's impossible. We
can't go back there, because the computer says it's still in Barcelona and you're in London.”
Well, I have good news for you.
As of whenever iOS 18.2 comes out, you will now be able to, with select Airlines, directly share
a connection to your air tag with the airline officially. Hopefully, if not when the airline loses your
bag, you'll be able to share that with the airline, so their employees can go track it down and find
what lost corridor, or hallway, or conveyor belt or thing it has fallen off, instead of trying
helplessly to prove that your bag's actually here and not there. This is coming “in the coming
months to “more than 15 airlines.” But the initial batch will be Aer Lingus, Air Canada, Air New
Zealand, Austrian Airlines, British Airways, Brussels Airlines, Delta Airlines, Eurowings, Iberia,
KLM, Lufthansa, Qantas, Singapore, Swiss, Turkish, United, Virgin Atlantic, and Vueling. That's
a nice smattering of airlines from all over the world. Good stuff.
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[0:23:37] IP: Yeah. Seems like IAG, Lufthansa Group, and Air France, KLM, right? Or not Air
France.
[0:23:45] JR: Not Air France. KLM. Not Air France.
[0:23:48] IP: Interesting.
[0:23:49] JR: Not American, which usually when something like this launches, the big three US
airlines jump on very quickly. Always United. Always United and/or Delta, at least in the US
leading this. Of course, the Apple press release has quotes from both United and Delta,
because you wouldn't want one to feel left out. Not shocked that American’s not joining here.
Yeah, this is really cool. Finally, the airlines admitting that, yeah, we have a problem, and this is
a solution out there, that instead of coming up with our own crappy solution, we should just use
what's already out there. Good stuff.
[0:24:24] IP: Yeah. All right. Let's stay in the features realm of things. Jason, you listed this as
the return of club seating. But that's not exactly what it is.
[0:24:40] JR: Not really. I said, return of club seating, with an accessibility twist.
[0:24:47] IP: I love a good accessibility twist.
[0:24:49] JR: Love an accessibility twist. Everyone should love an accessibility twist. This, I
believe, was an exclusive put out by Runway Girl Network, Mary Kirby's site today, that Airbus
revealed a concept. This is not a product. It's a concept and it's not something Airbus will build,
because Airbus doesn't build seats, and one of its partners, like Recaro, or any of the other seat
manufacturers. Basically, it is a cordoned off, or portioned out part of the aircraft cabin, where a
wheelchair user could wheel their own chair onboard, a powered wheelchair to be tied down in
position without having to transition that passenger to an aisle chair and then awkwardly get
them into an aircraft seat. That is probably not the best solution for them.
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Or in this case, Airbus has a concept where they have four seats, two opposite each other,
facing each other, where the wheelchair passenger can have their chair tied down and
companions, travel companions, or anyone else traveling with them could also be seated in that
little compartment with them. It just so happens that these seats are facing each other. It looks
like, Southwest's old school club seating that we will realistically never see again, but maybe we
will for a good cause.
[0:26:04] IP: It looks a mixture between Southwest club seating and seating that you would see
in a theater, like flip chairs.
[0:26:11] JR: Flip up chairs, like you'd see on trains, or buses where a wheelchair is supposed
to be tied down. It actually looks a lot like what you would see on a public transit bus, where it’s
just their seats are pulled away and ties come up from the floor and hold the wheelchair in
position. Again, just the concept, this may never actually become a thing. Delta through its Delta
flight products division actually has a different solution, where there are regular seats onboard
where the bottom flips up. Again, there are hooks, there are tethers that come out of the seats.
But this is a much more, I don't want to call it robust, but just a very different way of doing the
same thing.
[0:26:50] IP: Yeah. I think that's a good description.
[0:26:52] JR: Not the return of club seating, but also kind of.
[0:26:56] IP: But also kind of. Let's transition to some orders and not many deliveries. Let's start
with the deliveries, because there weren't that many last month. Boeing did not deliver that
many aircraft, mainly because their machinists were on strike and they weren't building that
many aircraft. Airbus for its part says, that it's got a back half of the year, or an end of the year
backlog. We'll see how many they can get out the door before the end of the year in the next 40
some odd days.
[0:27:27] JR: That's what I tell my boss when it comes to going through our goals for the end of
the year. I got a backlog of stuff. I'm going to do by the end of the year, I promise.
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[0:27:37] IP: Excellent. I believe in you, Jason.
[0:27:39] JR: Thank you.
[0:27:40] IP: But huge news. A shocker. I can't believe I didn't see this coming.
[0:27:45] JR: I mean, it's pretty unbelievable. But when you hear the news, you'll probably go,
“Oh, yeah. That makes sense.” Air China will be Comac’s first C929 customer, because of
course it is. Who else is going to launch that thing?
[0:28:01] IP: Take your pick. You've got, basically, three options. You've got Air China, China
Southern, and China Eastern. Those are your three options. But I'm glad they went with Air
China.
[0:28:13] JR: Yeah. I clicked on the Reuters article that we linked here, and there's other news
buried in here. Comac also has announced that Hainan Airlines placed a firm order for 60
C919s and 40 C909s, which we know is just the ARJ21. Then there's Colorful Guizhou Airlines
signed a purchase agreement, whatever purchase agreement means, for 30 C909, ARJ21s, 20
of which are firm and the remainder are options. Hey, that's a pretty good get for Comac,
because I believe there's some air show going on in China right now.
[0:28:52] IP: There is. There is.
[0:28:53] JR: We are not there.
[0:28:54] IP: We are not there. No. Quite the air show, indeed. Usually more focused on military
hardware there, but certainly some good, interesting commercial orders coming out of this. It'll
be interesting to see how many of those C909s actually get built and delivered.
[0:29:14] JR: Yes. The C929 is apparently, they say that the prototype will be seen in the near
future and estimated the jet could “soon” take a test flight. That could mean anything. But the
C929 is interesting, because that used to be the CR929. It was being cooperatively designed
with Russia. They dropped the R, and now it's just the C929. I don't know how much that set
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AVT 294 Transcript
them back, but this is Comac’s widebody, that their first attempt at a widebody version of its
homegrown aircraft. It's going to be real interesting to see how that goes. I think Jon Ostrower
also put out a tweet that somebody at the air show showed a model of a stretched C919 and
likened it almost to a 757-300. Good stuff.
[0:30:05] IP: All right.
[0:30:05] JR: Yeah.
[0:30:07] IP: All right. Sure.
[0:30:08] JR: That's something.
[0:30:10] IP: When it flies, we'll see it. I would still love to get on the 919. I mean, I think that
would be a lovely thing to do.
[0:30:16] JR: I can't wait to make the jokes about some say people are still getting onboard the
first ever C919 inaugural flight, because the thing's so long. That's a throwback to the old
757-300 joke, where the aircraft is simultaneously taking off and landing somewhere else at the
same time. It's amazing.
[0:30:35] IP: A big month for the excitedly named Avia Solutions Group, which has ordered 40
firm and 40 option 737 MAX-8s for Avion Express and SmartLynx and whatever other airlines
they fold into their solutions group.
[0:30:54] JR: There are so many that I've never heard of before.
[0:30:56] IP: A decent-sized order there. That's a good one. And, and, and, and they have, I
mean, I think a really cool livery.
[0:31:08] JR: It is, unfortunately cool, because you're never going to see it in real life. I don't
know under what circumstances would ever – you'd ever see one of these aircraft painted in the
Avia Solutions Group house livery.
© 2024 AvTalk 16
AVT 294 Transcript
[0:31:21] IP: But it's a great livery.
[0:31:23] JR: It is. Whoever spent the time design this, you should go to another airline that
actually has airplanes. Because what is that? Like a buffalo at the front of it?
[0:31:35] IP: I assume it's a bull.
[0:31:36] JR: Oh, I guess, that would make more sense. Yeah, but it's just a really good livery.
I'm sad that we'll never get to see it. But if you work for Avia Solutions Group and you have a
model of one of these airplanes in house livery, maybe send them one our way. Yeah, that'd be
nice.
[0:31:49] IP: We wouldn't say no. Then, everyone's favorite airline, undisclosed airlines, let's
see, Airbus has two, one, two orders from undisclosed customers. One for five A320neo aircraft
and another for 10 A320neo family aircraft as well.
[0:32:10] JR: World's biggest fleet.
[0:32:12] IP: Undisclosed airlines continuing to grow its fleet. This week, we said goodbye to
Vistara. Vistara and Air India completing their merger with Vistara going away, Air India taking
over the airline and moving all of the Vistara flights over to the 2,000 flight blocks. If you're
looking to figure out which aircraft are formerly Vistara aircraft, or are still operated by what used
to be Vistara crews, those are AIC2 and then whatever flight number they used to be. That's
how you'll know with the four-digit flight number, starting with the C. That is going to be a slow
ramp up as Air India retrofits their aircraft, they will then turn to retrofitting the Vistara aircraft.
You'll probably see the Vistara fleet flying around as is for at least another year before things
really start to move in any direction where you have Vistara aircraft that are getting painted into
the Air India livery and retrofitted with the Air India cabin. Nothing's going to happen overnight,
but on their way, and congratulations to them and hopefully, they continue to move in the right
direction.
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AVT 294 Transcript
[0:33:27] JR: Yeah. What else happened in news relating to Indian airlines that ceased to exist
this week?
[0:33:34] IP: Well, I don't want to say it's over, because the way these things go, it may never
be over. But the Supreme Court in India said to this week that the consortium trying to get Jet
Airways back off the ground did not fulfill their obligations and has ordered the airline, or the
company that was trying to be an airline liquidated.
[0:34:05] JR: Okay, one step closer. This has dragged on since before COVID, right?
[0:34:09] IP: It's been so long. Let's see. 2019, the airline went bankrupt. 2021, the Jalan-
Kalrock Consortium got the resolution plan approved by the court and three years later, nothing.
They're done. Say, “No, we're done.” The ownership of the airline, or the airline's assets has
been transferred to creditors, so that they can pay whatever money they have to those creditors.
This is probably the end of Jet Airways, or maybe not.
[0:34:50] JR: We'll see.
[0:34:51] IP: But probably. In our final story, we were wrong. Which is to say that I was wrong.
[0:34:59] JR: No, we were both wrong. We have emails about two different things about the
same topic in which we were both wrong.
[0:35:07] IP: I was wrong in fact, for which I apologize. Jason was wrong in conjecture, which I
don't think necessarily needs an apology, because now we know what's what. First, where was I
wrong? Last week in our story about the new US DOT rules on cancellations and lengthy delays
affecting automatic refunds, I misspoke when I said that they were non-refundable fares were
not subject to the rules. There are some caveats for non-refundable fares. But the rules
generally do apply to non-refundable fares. I can read, I promise you. I just didn't read very well
last week and gave out some wrong information. For that, I apologize. In the course of our
discussion, Jason queried, who buys these refundable fares? A bunch of people emailed us.
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AVT 294 Transcript
[0:36:07] JR: They said, they do. A couple of people replied, some to me directly saying, “I
manage a very large corporate travel airline program. We buy 150 million dollars’ worth
refundable tickets in the US every year.” Yeah, okay. I guess, that makes sense. You buy a
bunch of tickets. If you use them, great. If you don't, you get them back. That's one way to go
about doing it. This listener did reply in saying that the premium on refundable tickets, at least in
the US, isn't crazy anymore. It used to be like, the regular economy fare was $100 and the
refundable fare was $10,000. That's hyperbolic, but not. It's more in the hundred or hundreds of
dollars, where a ticket might be, let's say, $200 versus $400 for fully refundable. Yeah, it's a
thing. People buy it, but just not you or me. This is very much a corporate thing planning ahead,
unless you are really unsure about your travel plans, then, hey, maybe it doesn't hurt to buy a
refundable fare, but not something people typically do.
[0:37:05] IP: Right, right. That's all we have for episode 294 of AvTalk. Next week's going to be
a little bit interesting, because we'll record a little earlier in the week, so news will have much
more time to break after we record. I'll be traveling at the time we normally record the podcast,
which I'll talk about not on next week's episode, but in the weeks to follow. It's going to be some
good, fun stuff. Anytime they confirm that you are, in fact, a US citizen and can get a badge for
something, tells me that it's going to be a good time. We'll talk more about that in the coming
weeks. But until then, I am Ian Petchenik, here, as always with –
[0:37:50] JR: Jason Rabinowitz. Thanks for listening.
[END]
© 2024 AvTalk 19