The Phantom of the Opera with Lindsay Ellis

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Speaker 1: On the Bedel Cast, the questions asked if movies have women in them, Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands? Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef and best start changing it with the Bechdel Cast. Hello, Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Jamie, my name is Caitlin. You're doing your sexy radio voice. I'm a ghost that hides in the walls and he tries to raise you. I'm I'm a sex ghost with a face mask, and I'm a hot young on Janue Good and singing on new code for pray. Yeah, I'm so excited. So okay, this is the Bechtel Cast where we talk about the portrayal of women in movie inspired by the Bechdel Tests, which requires that two women in a movie of names they talked to each other in their conversation has to be something about something other than a man grow up. Never happens never, never, once in the history of cinema. This is an episode I feel like we've been talking about doing for at least six months. Yeah, well, because once every two to three episodes, do you find a way to mention it? Because I loved to shoehorn inch, Schumacher mentioned, this is our second episode of a Joel Schumacher movie. Third, so I think only the second. We did Flatliners and that's no, and we did bat Oh no, that was a Tim Burton Batman. Okay, Well, lots of Schumacher undertones in this podcast. I love a mediocre man. That's why I will always feel like, you know what, if it's a Joel Schumacher joint. Sure he deserves another chance, absolutely he doesn't, but he's like five million years old. He's gonna be making movies until he dies, and we just have to get used to it. I love how mediocre Joel Schumacher is. He is just emblematic of just infinite chances for kind of no reason. I agree that he's mediocre, and I hate him for that reason. So we right. I mean I generally only mediocreman are not okay for some reason. Joel Schumacher, he just he at least tries to take creative risks that just have historically never once worked. But he keeps doing it, and he keeps getting opportunities to do it. And it's just like so many female directors with challenge you're gonna you know, diet obscurity. But Joel Schumacher is gonna make five million movies and they're all gonna be fine there, except this one is actually really spectacularly bad. I thought you were going to end it spectacular and I was gonna be upset, and I thought, I've seen this movie at least twenty times. I was, I, Well, we'll get into it. It's the Phantom of the Opera episode the Joel Schumacher film. The two thousand four Christmas movie season was maybe like my favorite Christmas movie season growing up, because a fan of the Opera came out horny for that right. Series of Unfortunate Events starring Jim Carrey was the first movie I ever saw that made me viscerally angry and I really hated and so that was fun. Also National Treasure, which a hot season, a real hot season. Well, who can argue with that? Hey, let's introduce our guests. Yeah, she is a writer, she's a video essay as. She has this whole series of wonderful video essays, including an amazing on this movie. We're so almost stinked up there, we did it. It's early, but there, it's ten, it's happening. What are we doing? All those little things from seven to eleven. They put them next to the creamers, but it's actually like caffeine shots. I've got a couple of anyone needs me. And that voice you're hearing is our guest who we started intro and then forgot to do it the rest of the way. Lindsay Ellis. Thank you, guys, thank you so much. You happen to be doing a podcast on my favorite cracks, So so here for this. We're so excited you. So Phantom of the Opera, you have a history with this franchise. Maybe I've done three thirty plus minute videos we've seen on the opera. I don't front with my Phantom, but it's like probably my oldest fandom, and its like there's something about Phantom. Like most things you kind of outgrow, but Phantom just the stink never leaves you, so you just kind of got to own it. So when did you see this two thousand four Juel Schumacher Phantom? Well, I first when I was, like, you know, a sad fifteen sixteen year old. I mean, I actually wasn't that sad. Like Phantom drew me out of an even sadder phase of my life, which is when I was like in the New Metal and limpist get and really angry and sad all the time, and then I discovered musical theater, so there's a logical progression for you, and uh, I was like really obsessively into it. And that's actually how I met, like several of my current business partners to mostly Phantom of the Opera fandom in two thousand one, like my current co writer Angelina, I met on fan fiction dot net. Same with a Lisa Hansen who now does Vampirebout You Too, and Antonello and Sarah who used to do Nostalgic with me. Not so much anymore because we live in different cities. But by the time the movie came out, I wouldn't say it was over it, but it was like it was sort of like our joke old thing. We were excited at first, but then we saw that Schumacher was attached to it, and then like that like Antonio Vanderis who wanted it so bad, and they were already making this terrible creative decision in the form of Emmy Rossim and Gerard Butler, and we were just like, oh wow, this is gonna be like just as bad as we think it will be, and I just remember what was really funny was like seeing it. Did you see in theater? Yeah? I saw in theaters with my mother in Asheville, North Carolina. We were both like, wow, how did they mess that up so bad? You know the show that's like it's cheesy, but it works. How it happened? Jamie? What's your history? Oh man? I also got into fandom, I mean freakishly young, because my mom is obsessed with Phantom of the Opera. My mom also, as you know, completely unhinged. But's a theme with Phantom fans exactly, like we relate to that Phantom and there's too much of me that I see in that because I but I have a very specific memory of when I was really young, I mean probably five years old. So and it's directly connects to two of your videos. So I got those Hunchback of Notre Dame puppets that they sold. Yes, So I got all of this because my mom ran a daycare out of our house, and so there'll be some time every day where I'd be like, I want to be like by myself because I live here. So my mom would let me have time alone in a room and she would give me the three puppets Esmeralda, Quasimodo, and Phoebus, and she would turn on the original London cast of the Fantom of the Opera and I would pretend they were Christine and the Phantom and Raoul So and that was when I was like five, So it's into Phantom super early. Like some of my earliest memories are listening to the Phantom of the Opera and playing with puppets by myself, so very into it. And then goth teen Jamie, my middle school choir was going to a production of Fan of the Opera at the Boston Opera House. I remember I like had all these fish nets and like very like Phantom of the Operas super fan clothes on underneath normal clothes. And then I got to school and I was like, I'm the biggest fan of fanom of the Opera. And I had like the skirt from Trip with like chains on it and like fish nets, and I love this movie. It's very into it. I've seen I've seen Fan of the Opera on stage probably fine times. I think I've actually got to beat Yeah, I've probably seen it at least fifteen times. It doesn't good old though, Like if I lived in New York, it was just sort of like tickets, it was twenty five bucks. You know. Although like I'm so like, I'm so happy they're finally replacing bad phantom James Barber. Finally you should have you should never have hired him. He was not good, worse than Gerard Butler. No, I don't what it is for a Broadway fantom, just like you know, on top of being like a pedophile, he's just not a good phantom. Yeah, I mean that in the literal since he was actually actually went to trial for it, and really, yeah, there was an old man. It's like speaking of mediocre men getting second chances. Yeah, he was accused and went to trial for I think one, but then there were two more accusers, all were under the age of fifteen, and so they eventually he had a plea deal and so he was never actually served any time. But that then he was like after his probation was up in two thousand twelve or eight, I don't know, Somewhere somewhere in the Obama years, Broadway was like, welcome back, brother, and he's been doing pretty well. Why why do we let criminals do the thing well? I mean that is kind of a smooth transition right into Uh. There's a lot of praying on a minor in this movie, a lot of it. So I had never seen the movie until a couple of days ago. I thought I had, but turns out I hadn't, and I didn't know what the story. I've never this is my first. I hadn't seen the show, not familia, never read the book. Nothing. But you don't like music generally, I don't like musicals. But yeah, I just I have. This was my first experience with Phantom of the Opera, and boy did this movie sour my experience. It's good, here's got a lot of pain. Okay, just just to illustrative point of how much people love this Okay, so it has on rotten to me as critically, no one liked it. Everyone said get the electric guitar riff out of there, right audience score like people love fanom of the Opera and they hear now people people will, I guess because like when I did the video about it, I tended to focus mostly on the technical filmmaking. For that reason, I think I didn't get a lot of pushback from fans. But I definitely remember like in two thousand five, when I guess we were. I was in college at the time, and uh, you know that was like when Phantom of the Opera fandom got to shut the arm from this new movie and like there was this new wave of people who just loved the movie, and then there was the old guard that was just like gate keeping. So there was like a war. I remember it. Well, yeah, those people they live. Um, should I do the recap? Yeah? Okay. Family the Opera is about a young woman named Christine. She is a chorus girl in this opera house. Also in the opera house is a spooky phantom man. As he goes as he really don't know, but everyone's scared of him, and everyone's like, ah, that's literally yeah, there's there's a literal. Oh, there's there's a really yeah, there's a really obnoxious set up to this movie. Oh the frameming devices, and they keep going back to it. Patrick Wilson's age makeup is Patrick Wilson and old makeup. I'm pretty age makeup. Oh god, why Yeah, it's not that bad, but mean, the makeup is not bad, but I mean I was realized I thought that was just an old man. But like Why wouldn't they have just cast an old Anyway, I do love that Patrick Wilson puts on old man voice. It sounds really connectors. It's like, okay, we get it, you're old. I mostly fast forwarded through those parts, but those are the worst parts. You missed that so extraneous if they don't need to be there. They had nothing. They had product placement. It was like there Swarovski I think there was another one. It was like another brand that existed in the eighteen Okay, so the show takes place in the eighteen seventies, which doesn't make sense because that was during the Franco Prussian War and the opera was under siege. Not an opera, but the shows like eighteen seventy one was like okay, So in the movie, I think they bump it back to eighteen eight or a time that made sense when the novel took place. So I guess this one thing the movie fixed, thank you, We're not much else, We're the Andrew low Wepper was like, no, let's let's kick it back another fifteen years. For whatever reason. Well, I guess maybe it's like the dresses were cooler in the eighteen than in the eighties. It's true. It's true though I didn't like those bustles. But also this movie does not abide by any manner of like I mean, there's some that's more realistic, but there's sometimes there's like the time that where Christine is wearing like a slip with like a slit on the leg. You're just like, oh, totally on the outside of my night gown. Yeah, I'm just like, oh. Let's also I'm a singer, but I'm in the ballet right, but you're not going to see me do much of either, Like yeah, she okay, okay, sorry, there's a spookie ghost Carlotta. She's like the prima donna diva, like the star of all the opera is the only person who knows what's a movie. She's in any different things happen where she's like, I'm not gonna sing, or she's you know, refusing to perform. So they're like, how about this Christine girl? She can sing, but they're like, how how can she s? I mean that's about what I sounded like when I was seventeen, So okay, I'm ready to beat the prematana of the premier French opera is how old she is in the in the movie when she's aged down in the movie, and I think that Emmy Rossum was sixteen she was your age because she kisses two old men in this movie. She kisses two men far older than he. So she's like, yeah, I can sing. Because it turns out she's been taking singing lessons from a an angel of music, who she thinks is her dead father's spirit, teaching her how to sing. He is just like drenched in electric complex. Yes. Yes, she thinks the ghost is her daddy. No, she thinks that the ghost is an angel sits because so it's basically as bad, but because as he as he lay dying, she's like, I'm gonna send you an angel County, don't worry like the panther. Somehow her other finds out about this, and he's like, right, how does he know about that and know about Maybe he was No, I don't know. Maybe I don't know watching her dad died, I don't know for a long Maybe he was in the walls. Maybe he died in her dressing He tends to do that her dressing room that she has by herself alone, which is yeah, I mean when okay, that was another part where I was like, Okay, is she supposed to be in Carlotta's dressing room, but it looks like it's all her stuff, and the phantom wouldn't have rigged Carlotta's dressing room so that he could just appear wherever, like a two way mirror that slides. Okay, but that rules, to be fair, that rules, and it's a very exciting stage moment, and I'm just like in the book it was her dressing room. So yeah, she's such a big dressing room. She's a teen orphan. They don't get nice dressing room in France comes orphans. She can't sing, but she is a teen in an orphanage. Good enough, Okay, we'll put her corset on the outside of her clothes. Anyway, we're about fifteen minutes where we have not got much further. So she thinks this angel of music is singing to her and teaching how to sing. Turns out this phantom, who is real, approaches her and she's like, oh wait, you're a man, but you're still my angel of music, and they have a whole song about it. She has no reaction to learning that he's a man. Does get darker though, Sorry it gets very, very very smoky. It does get Yeah, by the time she's in the gutter, she is in full smoke. Ye. Like I said, the further down she goes the smoky and it looks like it looks like when I was thirteen and trying on moms makeup for the first times, Like darker she there's a lot of long shots of Emmy Ross. I'm just like looking like she's basically falling a like mouth kind of a dog. Yeah, And it's like, oh, that's what love is, just tranced voice Yard Butler. So I didn't realize that, Like this movie does a very bad job I think of setting up that he's supposed to be this like seductive and she's like, oh, I like that. Like I did not realize that they were having like a love story. Like it didn't really not good at things right, It's almost like he's just laying on top of that. Gerard Butler is doing an exceptionally bad job of being seductive. Amy Rawsom is like sixteen and has never gone outside, so she doesn't know how to look like seduced. I guess, which is already gross. Why did they cast a sixteen year old Anne Hathaway really wanted the part to really and out the way who can sing and was the correct age in two thousand five. I think she would have done She would have done well, and Heathway and Antonio Banders what could have done would entire and this like didn't really launch anyone's career in the way that I think the movie intended to. I mean, we're Patrick Wilson's. Patrick Wilson's didn't get hurt, right, it wasn't He wasn't actively harmed by I would I would think perhaps that Emmy Rassam was maybe damaged by this. I think she was like maybe on the rise and then kind of stalled. She was in the Day after Tomorrow, and then he went away until Beautiful Creatures switched yes myself, Yeah, yeah, she was like the oh sexy older sister and she just that looked his network on her well. And then now she she's like relegated to TV and seems to be doing well. But it's I feel for her this week because imagine like having the rest of your life affected by a mistake that didn't seem like a mistake when you were sixteen. Sure, basically it's her teen pregnancy so we're we're so he's like seducing her, and she's kind of into it, question mark, I don't really know. But he shows her this like wax sculpture he made of her, of her in a in a wedding dress, and she also has no reaction to that. She's just like she passes out. She passes out because women be fainting, right, I mean, that is so creepy out. But then after that, when she wakes up to me, she does not have an appropriate reaction to a creepy man whose face is half hot and half under a mask making a sculpture of her. And then she's just like, yeah, okay, you're my friend. Now there's something not to jump to anyone's devans. But she does think that he's like an angel. Yeah. I think the tay she rips off the mask is when she's like, oh, you're ugly. I guess you're not an angel and can only be high. I mean, it's it's just kind of confusing because when you like both in the show and in the movie, from that point on, you don't see her again until the opera, right, and and then she runs to the roof like I'm really scared Raoul, and he's like, don't worry, honey, it's not it's not real. So I guess like at that point where she kind of turns on him, but it's all really implicit, and there's like, yeah, this story is so clunky the more you look at it. But she okay, So she meets him, she's like, he's an angel. He made it a wax statue of me that we have to assume he has sex with. There's no way there's not a cavernous hole in that wax section. So anyways, she wakes up and she's like, well, that happened. But then he does start to behave more and more threatening after that, where not that her reaction at any point in this story totally makes sense, But if I'm remembering correctly, she gets out and that's when he starts being like you have to recast the show. And then he like causes the fucking chandelier. Yeah it doesn't fall yet. That's the funny thing about the chandelier freaking people out. It has like has no consequence. It just kind of happened. As far as we know, no one's hurt. He does, so right, I'm thinking, I'm sorry I'm thinking of the show because the show, it falls at the end of act one, whenever he goes like, you will curse the day you did not do all that the phantom masks of you, and then he cuts the chandelier as a threat, and then in the movie he just cuts it because he feels like it because I forgot to do this. We have it on. We have to justify the framing device right exactly. But before that he has the guy from the rafters and then everyone's like, oh, this is a ghost to be reckoned with. By the time people are dying, I'm like, okay, it makes sense for her to be scared now, yeah, but then she still sort of is and then sort of isn't throughout the rest of the movie to the point where this is. This is kind of the genius of the Lloyd Webber version because this was the first version where they really play up the she's kind of into it, and I think that's also why I know that's why this is the most successful version. Was like in the book, he's just kind of like a creepy guy and she's never into it, like she pities him, like in the Proto Pity and Gollum kind of way, but like the second she sees him and she's like oh, and then he's like sorry because real looks like ship. Yeah, he's wearing the masks, but he's just like, hey, um, I'm not an angel. I'm a fifty year old man who's in love with you. Come to my basement. And she's like, he's going to kill and eat me. I have to just placate him and do whatever he says it. So she does this for like two weeks where she's like, no, you're great, you're awesome. I think you're really nice. Looky the things that women have to do. I'm not getting murder. Yeah, And that's so then he lets he like after two weeks, she convinces him and he's like okay, final, let you go back into the opera. And then she tells Raoul everything like oh my god, there's this creepy guy and he's gonna kill me. And then he overhears it and that's when he snaps and loses it. That makes more sense, not happened in this In this movie, she's kind of into it. Toxic. Yeah. Yeah, there's like moments where he's like wrapping his arms around her and she's not like I'm in a shampoo. There's there is a part and this was my favorite part. I remember when I see the movie when I was twelve, I was like, during point of No Return, which is an insane number in the movie, just looks like that. I like most of the songs, but you should seem like, like I said, like we watch the Royal Albert Hall version, be like, wow, this is even better when people can sing. There are random tango dancers there, there's but there's a point in this version of it where Emmy Rosso looks like she's straight up going to pass out again because she's so turned on where they're like, you know the peak of that song, it looks like her eyes are like fluttering. It's like she's sick. Something someone give her. Also her like straps of her dress falling off her shoulders and she's like, I'm getting more and more naked as I get so horny with this song. And then he I skipped half of the movie, but who cares. It doesn't make any sense and it's sucking, terrible the story but nothing but any sense. Nothing, It really doesn't. It's amazing how like that doesn't bother you when it's on stage, because there's like I think there's just a lot more suspension of disbelief inherent in the medium of theater totally. So I think it's just like the bizarre plot holes just kind of wash over you in the stage version where in the movie version and they're just spectacularly glaring because everything is literal. There's no sort of you know, magical realism going on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it really emphasizes how much this story makes no fucking sense. And it's just I mean, it's adapted really not well at all. Like there's just there's things that could have been done in this adaptation that would have made it transition a little smoother, but it just didn't. And then there's like weird moments where people are speaking dialogue that should be sung but they're speaking rhyming diet. We're just like, why aren't you There's like you're my bride that we don't need to hide. That part of Masquerade drives me crazy, where Patrick Wilson and talking to each other in the music is still going right, I was like, why can't you just Patrick Wilson can actually sing yeah, you get any driver? Ironically the person who was dubbed right yeah really yeah, alright. So the basic story is that there's a guy who's a creep and he is gaslighting Christine and she also is like in love with and being gas lit by Raoul. Everyone's like, there is no phantom and she's like there Izzy, if I don't know, he's an angel, right, and then the Phantom gets more more dangerous and threatening, and then by the end he is like murdering people and like making these insane demands and then he drops the shandeli around everyone, but no one is hurt and it's fine, but that's like they're like, well, this needs a consequence. I yess. It burns the opera down and now there's no operation. And then he takes Christine into his like swampement level apartment and had apartment like that, and then Raoul goes to save her, of course, and the Phantom's like, you either have to be with me to save Raoul's life or I'll kill you both or who knows what are And it's so funny, Like I love the way that scene is shut, like he just sneaks up behind role or like just walks up to him with the noosy light here, but he'll still he just like loops it over his head and then like fastens him to a great. But it's just like okay, so it's an news, which is the thing you could hang people with. But he's like tied, tied, tied to a great, So, um, is he just gonna strangle him with the new like manually, like he's just gonna he can't be hung he's tied to a great. Your video the first time that was ever, I was like, oh, yeah, there's no he's probably fine, Like maybe he's about to pull out a gun and shoot him, but like the pulling yankee at the rope, like that will eventually be. I don't know why they did it because like in the show, it's like a magical realism thing, like yeah, throws the rope on him, and then the rope magically kind of lifts, so he's actually being like you know, that's so much a phantom of like let's just throw something into fog. People just hate how this movie doesn't commit to the magical realism. It's just like you either do it or don't. Like I talked about like in the show, because they had like the Jean Cocteau arms in the movie, which is like the sort of like, oh, I'm being seduced and being brought into this magical, mysterious world, and they're like lifting this thing from Jean Coocto's Beauty and the Beast, which are the these arms stick jutting out of the wall and holding candles. And then they never do anything like that for the rest of the movie. It's just straight literal this. There's like commit to some stuff like that sty glaring plot holes, you know, just just at least, I mean, that's like the least you can ask of Joel Schumachers, like commit to your bad choices. But he doesn't do that in this one. This movie could have been at least consistently fun and bizarre. Yeah, but there it's just has to be serious, very disjointed. The addition of the weird sword fighting scene, Well, the sword fight leads to one of the talking points I had about the treatment of women in the movie, which is that so in that sword fight, and we see this in a ton of movies where two men are fighting over a woman. The men are fighting, the woman is being fought four So it's like women are often rendered just so passive in situations like the same thing with like a woman having to be saved, like she has to wait around to be saved by a man. This isn't a huge component of this movie, but I think it's worth mentioning that there was just like, well, it's one of two major scenes where Christine is completely sidelined as two men fight, Slash saying Slash argue about her because it's that sword fighting scene where she's just totally like literally watching like that that Quinn from Daria being like, don't fight over me. Uh. And then and then in the climactic scene to where dry Butler's like I'm gonna make your boyfriend hurt and he's like he's like it's okay, you know, and Christine's just standing there like, oh, she has a little more agency in that scene because she then kisses the phantom, who would argue that it is such a crazy like I get, I don't know. She's sidelined for the majority of that scene. And then it's like how do I get out of here? And if I give him a little kissy, let us go, which you couldn't bank on working, but it does. It works at this show. It doesn't show in the movie. It's just like I just feel like rolls like tied that great in christ Post, just looking on with confusion, like what is this supposed to? What was anyone here? Well, the kiss that she gives to the phantom to like placate him ignores the fact that like she's just doing this out of desperation, because she's like, my life's in danger, Roles, life's endangered. I've been gasp by every fucking person in this entire movie throughout the whole fucking story. I gotta kiss this guy to like make him not murder people. But the movie frames it is like big romantic, the camera spin, this is not romantic, Like what are you doing? Movie? There's a cinema talk John Matthison is swirling around this swab filming an underage woman kissing Gerard Butler just bleak in every respect. But like, yeah, the point I want to make about so often in movies, this one included, we see a woman taking a very passive role in whatever's happening, just sitting idly by watching as two men fight or a man has to stave her or whatever, and it just sends a message that women can't do things I guess, and then we as a society or like, oh, women can't do things because I've never seen them do things in media, so I don't trust them to be able to do anything. I think more than anything, it's just like Christine's character is like, oh, you just have to take a lot of shit, like she'd takes ship for this entire Okay, so if we're talking about I don't know I relate to Christine card but like so her as a character, she's set up as she misses her father, her father was the main figure in her life, and then we're presented with to father like figures who are fun boys that she has to choose between, where it's like, does she choose the dangerous ghost father committing murders or is she going to choose the useless guy who like walked right into a trap and never But also is like pretty consistently like you're making this up. It's fine, just stay with men in it, and and is visibly older than her as well, so it's like they're supposed to be the same age, So let's all right because they were childhood sweethearts. Are they supposed to because if they are the same age, unless like he was seventeen and she was seven, which, honestly, in like nineteenth century France, that was probably a thing, you know. I mean, he's he's in the show. At least he's supposed to be a year or two older than she is. But but he has so many like successes. But he's only supposed to be eighteen. Um, well, I mean Christine's nineteen in the show, so he's supposed to be be one. So I don't Again, I don't know why they age Christine down. That does nothing for this movie. It just makes it. Well, he's rich, but as it that, I'm guessing he's an he's a navy officer, which is why he like at the masquerade, he has his like naval uniform on, so he's like a he's a vicomte, so he like vicun died his way to the top of the navy hierarchy, so he's like a sailor hot. So Christine's like a girl with daddy issues who's presenting with two daddy's and she has to pick one of them because there has two daddies. I mean, I would actually argue that I don't see Raoul as as a father figure. Really, I think that in this movie, he's pretty consistently I mean very least. Yeah, but I don't think she sees her father in him. Okay, this or any of the version at least that's kind of how I took it, And that's why I guess in some ways he's less appealing to her because she you know, she kind of wants her dad back and so like, she has made this association in her mind with the Phantom and her father. But there's a level of security that comes with being super Yeah, he got her scarf back. That's nice. Did something. Speaking of that love triangle, I couldn't help but notice that no time is spent developing the romance between Christine and Raoul. They're like, oh, we knew each other as kids, and now we're adults and we haven't seen each other for years. I have that's what we're in love. We have that big swell of romance number which is which takes place right after the murder on the roof. I love. I love that scene because it's like Bouque gets murdered, he gets hung. She runs up to the roof and she's like, oh god, oh god, oh god, it freaked out. I know who did it He's gonna kill me, oh god, and was like, don't worry, honey, it's fine, And then like the clarinets of Romance start playing and they have that big All I Ask of You number. They just forgot about the killing, right, but it works, Like, yeah, it just doesn't work here well, especially because he's just like creeping around, like the pantroom is just like the whole seed, hiding behind statues and it's just like we don't need to like this was another like point that I made the videos, like we don't need to know he's here. Why do you keep cutting to him? What is the emotion you're going for? Is it tension or are we supposed to feel bad for him? Either way, it doesn't work because this is supposed to be like they're big row and obviously that you know doesn't stick because like you you're like the when do they connect? Like, well, it's there, but you don't realize it because the phantoms like creeping around, pouting at the camera, and then in in the musical, that's not what it is at all, Like you don't see him just leering, you know, tiptoeing around the stage, Like guys, it's there. It's there in the Lawn Cheney movie. I always think it the Lawn Chaney movie that's a reflection of the book. It's kind of funny in the book because there's this one line where that she's like telling role at about how ugly he is, and then you had here this whale like in that she lied to me and said I was okay because I have her just because I kid not her, and told her she could never leave damn it. Well to the romance between Rale and Christine. This happens a lot in movies where not I'm spent developing why these characters would like each other or love each other, which I think is a symptom of female characters just not being well developed enough where they would just have a personality or we would understand why the male lead, but they're like, oh, well, you know, there's a man in the movie, and he's got to have a hot lady to be with. So here's this lady character, but we're not going to do anything else to develop her, and that I think it's so true for this movie. What is Christine's character? She has no fucking personality. She's basically just a singing voice and then she's barely that because well we don't see her make a lot, like most of things happened to her made for her right, And this is you know, I think in this version more than any of the others, which is kind of surprising because it's like it being the most recent, big one that got big enough to where there were no other versions besides the Dario or Agento version, which I do not recommend. I haven't seen it, don't see it. There there's I mean, I think you can out on one hand kind of the choices we see her actually actively making. And we don't know that she necessarily has aspirations to be like Carla. We know she takes music lessons and that music is important to her. We don't know that, but she's just forced out into this role. There's no Yeah, there's no specific goal that she has that we know about that we don't know. Yeah, but like that's the thing that we should probably know for any protagonist, what their desire is, what their goal is. But just kidding, we don't have any idea in this movie. The first choice that she actively makes in the movie is to kiss him at the end. Yeah, because she chooses to go she sneaks out to go to her dad's grave. That's one choice to see her. But that's funny, Like she's like, they're like Christine, and you have to be in the show. The Phantom is forcing us to put on. We had to be in his fan fiction opera, which is literally he's like, I really love Don Giovanni, but it's it's not serious enough. I'm going to make serious do. It's called Done Want Triumphant, and it's gonna be about how I'm really sexy and hot and all the ladies want me. Don One doesn't go to hell in this version. That's literally what it is. Like. It says it's his fanic. So they're like, Christine, you have to start and the Phantom is fan fic. And she's like no, they's seeing where they're like in the chapel and she's like, she says, like I'm scared, don't make me do this. He's like, he's like, you need to do it. Fine, he's only killed the one guy, and then he's like I'll be there. It's like, who cares? But I think that the choices here make She goes to her dad's grave, only to be sidelined pretty much but at that point, she's still confused, apparently about who the Angel of Music is because that song happens again. Surely she knows that they're going again for the magical realism thing that they don't commit to, where he's got like some sort of like hypnotic power over her. Doesn't make any sense when she when she looks asleep, it's whenever she does the like you lazy face thing, It's confusing if I didn't know Sarah Brighten face, it is Sarah Brighten face. Yeah, just like the look kind of asleep but kind of turned on. Like yeah, so she she is not really inactive, not at all protagonist at all. I'm like, I'm like having to suppress my like my Christine stand like because I'm like, this is absolutely true in the movie and in the show. But I'm just like, but that's not how it wasn't the book there, It wasn't originally like this, Andrew Lloyd, we were changed it to make her more romance novel hair when I guess, I don't know, I mean that totally makes sense to make this romance work. If you give Christine a more active role, it would probably fall apart pretty quickly. Because the male if you established, if you had just like established a desire for her where she will like stop at nothing to become the lead of the opera like the new Prima Donna or whatever. That's her driving thing. And then this fan to man comes along who's promising to help her with that. It would make sense why she would maybe be seduced by him and his promises and all that stuff and then go along with it. But because we have no idea what her specific goal is, it's insane that she's just like, oh, I'm enchanted and hypnotized by his genius or what like. It doesn't make any sense to me. In the show and certainly in the movie, it's like the closest we can get to boiling down a motivation has to do with her dad or somehow like recapturing boring just bad writing, but there, But like her motivation seems pretty closely tied to her dad, which is just crazy. And in both the book and the show, she's just kind of coasting like she's studying music. Dad died. I mean, well, I guess I'll keep studying music. He paid for it, right, But it's like the never it's like, does she want to be here, do we know? And then that brings me to Madame Jerry, who I just thought about this like the most recent time I watched it. Of like, Madame Jerry's basically I mean, she's in charge of the ballet. She's like the lead choreographer of the ballet, and she's the mother to one of the only other female characters who speaks, Meg Jerry, who is Christine's best friend. Madame Jerry's basically subbing in as Christine's parent. But it's so clear, like there's a few times in the movie where we see Madame Jerry actively make sure that Meg stays away from the phantom. Madame Jerry, we learn knows everything about him, knows about grew up with him, right, which is an addition. That's that's a new addition to the movie. And I don't like it because you know, it's like, why does he have a friend? It's not like it doesn't It really kind of takes some of the like impetus for him to be so desperate and you know, obsessed with Christine if he just has like this, you know, emotional support all these years in the form of Madame Jerry, who's been kind of helping you and never FLEs poorly on her character too, because it's like, oh, she knows everything, and his letting this child communicate openly with this very dangerous person while keeping her daughter like and we know she knows he's dangerous because she's keeping her biological daughter away from him at all costs. But then she was like, oh, well she I don't know, what are you know, I'm not going to get in the way he had a bad childhood. Well, just that begs the question that was let him have his fun. That's frustrating me this time. I'm like, man, ma'am Jerry, you suck we totally. And that also begs the question if I mean, it's established with this flashback that she rescues him, has him live in his you know, dungeon apartment or whatever, and then so what's dungeon studio? I want to make more sense that he was obsessed with Madame Jerry and like she was the object of his affection because she liked him Chase man, she's emotionally available and also, you know, women over forties is not there for way before. He was there for her for a little while, and he's like, you've got too old. I made a sixteen year old also, just like Miranda Richardson and Gerard Butler. So if they're supposed to be the same age, then the phantom is yeah, I mean he would be like, well into his right, how old is he in the book, like he's he's about okay, Madame Jerry though there this was the first time, and then I was like, oh, they're the way that she's portrayed this movie does not bode well for that character because it's like, oh, she's a poor guardian, she's very complicit, and the fact that murders are taking place, and then the whole keep the hand at the level of I was like, what does that mean? I mean if your hand so you're supposed to do this, you supposed to literally keep your hand next to your head because the pun so his like weapon of choice, is like he'll try to noose you, but if your hand is up, you can't noose you, and you can push the pun. So it's like it's like I think it's supposed to be like a whip in the book, but they just make it a literal noose in the show, which is like I'm gonna noose you, buddy, like that's not a very good, you know, offensive weapon. No, it's like get a knife there, Okay. In the Phantom's apartment swamp next to his action figure swamp apartment actual figures and also in addition, a bizarre edition and that's unique to this version, plays with dolls. Dolls. He lives in basically the sewer because there's waters the lake. The bathroom situation. Just go outside. Literally, I'm just like a part where like they're standing in water, like I mean, like Phantom, No, the thing is like the opera has a like a drainage, Like that's what that is. So because that's not you know, it's it's a very you know, it's a very large building, and so like the foundation requires there to be like a drainage lake. So he builds a house next to this lake. In the book, it actually has like running water electricity because he's just that smart. So like in the movie, they just kind of make it like a cave. That is like he kind of threw some dropcloths, you know, on the cave and some candles we're going to call sexy Schumacher. Where does he poop Schumacher. It's like that, it's like that episode of Bras City that Amy Saidaris is in and she was like, where isn't the bathroom? Oh, Schumacher, have you guys seen Love Never Dies? No? No, I haven't. I've like actively avoided it for a long time. Okay, So there's like twenty versions because they like it's terrible and they keep work shopping it. But in the like Madame Jerry and Meg, yeah, in the sequel they have they both have like really beefed up parts, and like Madame Jerry is like the Red Herring bad guy because like she's jealous because like turns out the phantom has a kid from the one time he and Christine did the do and they fucked. Yeah, they sucked. They sucked after the musical in it, like she came back and she's like, hey, let's do it, and he's like yeah, and then they do it and then he's like, oh, I can't handle it and leaves and they have this this like what a funck boy followed around and Love Never Dies where they sing about how they sucked this one time and then they described it in song why did this never make it to Broadway? And then and then he kind of puts two and two together, like we sucked ten years ago, you have a ten year old and then like Madam Jerry's like, no, he's gonna take our inheritance. But then at the end of the show it turns out Meg is the bad guy. What yeah, and she like kidnaps the kid and she's gonna shoot it. It's so funny because like the Phantom is talking her down. Like the show ends at the Phantom talking Meg down, and then Meg accidentally shoots Christine and Christine dies yes, yes, and the fans like, na, oh, well, I guess I get the kid as a constellation prize. And then it ends actually, well, have never died. Why I'm so attached to Christine. Yeah, You're saying all this stuff about Christine, and I'm like, you're not wrong. I'm really not wrong. It's hard though, it's hard there, especially in this movie. There's like because like I think there's also this sort of like there's the discussion between overrepresentation of certain harmful tropes and also certain harmful tropes that there is some truth to you know, because you look at like the story about this teenage girl that's just being led by her nose by all these men and it's like, while that is absolutely overdone, there's also a lot of truth to that, you know, just like because that's just what happens, especially in entertainment, you know, and because you see this reflecting like the careers of so many like actresses and me, Like I think of Kesha especially, who was just like molded into this you know figure that wasn't her and she didn't want to be and she they like you know, created this public persona for her and she had to live it for so many years. And the thing about Christine, I think that's sort of like why I think we both a little protective of hers, Like there is some truth to this for sure, and you know that's sort of like it's sort of like a both thing where it's like, yeah, it's so lame that she's so passive. But on the other hand, you know, that's kind of what coming of ages for a lot of women figuring out like, oh my god, I have to do something and make a choice because women are not socialized to be active, you know. So I guess like I think a little more in the stage version, not too much, not to like act like the stage version is superior. It's really not. I mean, it is, but it's not story wise Christine, you know, it's just sort of her coming into her own is sort of like she does it in the only way she knows how, which is to play Kate the murderer and considering the time period as well. Like, I totally agree with you, because and and then it just becomes the duty of the storyteller and the filmmaker to frame that correctly and not glorify the wrong parts. I think that we could sort of maybe draw a comparison to Twilight here, where it's like a young teenager who you know, young women are going to plug themselves into. I mean, I remember doing that with Fantom of the Opera and Twilight and then seeing a very like sort of dangerous relationship developed, but have the movie be like, but this is right, and that's why this or that's why Andrew Lloyd Weber's version, not the movie the musical is the most successful version of Phantom was because it was he was the one that's like, let's frame it as really sexy and let's make him really simple, you know, sympathetic as a murderer can be. And it's just like, you know, when you take a step back and you're like, well, it's no wonder this is the one that took off, But what does that say about humanity and their taste and things? So like, while I would agree that Christine is I mean, she's not making any choices, and any sixteen year old girl would have more of a personality than she has, or would at least on the adopting like let's be honest, like and I you know, and she she was again, she was too young for the part. I'm sure there are sixteen year olds out there that could have pulled it off. But I think also like it's kind of a testament to bad directing, Like Schumucker is a notoriously bad director, and part of directing is training because you can see, like you can see the direction in the way that she's acting, like because he's you know, telling her like you're seduced, you're entranced, and this is like really like so she's just kind of clearly reacting off of these very basic good direction and that's why she looks the way she does. And because I feel like there's a lot you could do with that blank slate if we had a better actor, right, it's very frustrating to watch. She's really not that good in the movie. Man, I was in chamber choir too. Yeah, I could have been Christie. I can hit that high e Oh god, Emmy Ross I'm playing that part the way she did in a way that most teenage girls can sing. Or it's just like you're deadly stating for talent shows for the next several years. I'm just like, I can think think of me like Emmy Rossum, of course you can't. Yeah, where they're just like the h you know that really her hitting the hind on and that one always sends like a chill through my body because it's just not good. And you know, it's funny how many fights I've been in over that, like she's not good and they're like, well, she's not supposed to be good. It's like voice of an angel over here. It should not sound like a gravel driveway, and the prima donna should sound better than your high school chamber choir diva, Like right, holy no, no, you don't get to pull that in this movie. Oh. Another thing about those Christine and Carlotta is that Carlotta is super jealous of Christine and they're sort of like pitted against each other and like young hot women are super threatening to older women. I feel like that's a really it just perpetuate thing. It's just like perpetuate. I want I want more of that because I think that's really uh and creative. Let's see more of that. I've been writing. It's really it's good. It's good writing, underrepresented and it's good writing. Also, that was yeah, that was I mean, that's not an addition that's unique to the Lloyd Webber version. They've been like because like she didn't really care about Christine in the book, but that that's been there as early as the Lawn Cheney version, right where she's very strange a better but it's like you're the best one, like you're she's fine. Carlotta and Christine. I think it's, you know, a little bit of a virgin horror trope word. It's more like Carlotta is decadent and conceded and how did she become And it's funny because like everyone, like especially in the movie, they play up that like everybody hates her because she's arrogant, but it's it's just like a she's pretty madonna for a reason. She puts butts and seeds and b she doesn't seem to do anything to actively offend people. But there's that sea where she's like, you know the Prima Dona scene where she's like chomping out and everybody's like mooning her and being like good riddance, and it's like, this doesn't make any sense. Why does everyone hate her? She's kind of the reason that people have a job like gos. She's storming out again. Why why why are they acting like this? I mean, well, to speak to all the other female characters, they have just this little agency, I would argue as Christine, because Meg basically does nothing. It also bothered me that Christine whenever they were like, hey, you should play Carlotta's part, and oh man, this is what the phantom wants, so let's maybe do it, and then she was never like, hey, wait a minute, let's step back here for a second and like, maybe address the problem of getting rid of this phantom rather than just appeasing him for no fucking reason. Yeah, it was crazy that they didn't have more of as a sixteen year old girl, we probably should try to get rid of him. It's just too dangerous, so let's just do what he wants. That's like addressed several times of like should we do to think about this? Like no, no, no, no, no, no, you don't you don't do something about the fantaist. Do you see the way he wiggles that chandelier A don't well, And that's where like part of the function of Madame Jerry's character is just every time someone offers a practical solution, she's sort of just like, but you can't. And then it's like, oh that. One of the last points I wanted to bring up was the because we just did an episode on be for Vendetta the Trump the kidnapping slash re education true kidnapping exactly, Yeah, yeah, kidnapping with the intent being that I'm going to teach you and you're going to be mine. And then you know, just like uh, he's listening. I gave you music, you belong to me, you owe me something, you owe me your body and your talent and your presence, and it's just like, ah, why are you falling for this? Right? And it's you know, obviously done to a very selfish end. It barely has anything to do with Christine at all. It sort of seems like where he just you know, wants companionship and wants hot companionship, and he should just fuck his wax doll. I mean he for sure does, but he for sure does that doll. Let's watch like smell the ngeled Phantom come. Speaking of other other movies, I would argue that there is a Titanic illusion in the beginning of Phantom, where there's the big field, bear with me, Bear with Me. There's a of the of the chandelier, and then that all of a sudden is back. We're going to transition into the it's so bad but whenever everything is like dusty and shitty, and then it transitions into shiny look at these yeah, statue nipples. That I think is a direct allusion to when I'm Titanic, when there's a shot of like the old, gross, grimy underwater Titanic and then it fades into this like schumachers, like work for them, let's try it. There's also a sweeping romance. Yeah yeah, sure. Does anyone have any other final thoughts about the movie The Phantom of the Opera. I think that the two people who do very well in this movie are many drivers great. I think Patrick Wilson escapes unscathed and does as well as anyone could do in this movie. I'm also just like Patrick Wilson. He's good, but his characters, Yeah, he's a he's a bland man. How about that he's kind of pushy and I don't care for him. What about that scene whenever she's sleeping in her room, gets up and then goes to the cemetery and he's just like sleeping outside of her room. Why is he doing? Is he's looking? I guess he's like yeah. But that's that's why I would argue that that's a choice, because she sneaks past him, n't ask for permission before she she does make an active choice in that she doesn't really choose to rip his mask off. I forgot about that. Oh that is true, But again it makes a lot more sense. In the book, she does specifically tells her don't do this, so she's like, I think you've got to do that. Yeah, I think I will actually get any sixteen year old girl thing to do, like, oh, you told me not to do that thing, Okay, But in the movies, both times it happens, it feels so unmotivated, like why is she doing? I also love the way it's like shot where he's just kind of like piano like ducking his head back and forth. And I mean it's really funny at the show because she like reaches and he'll kind of like duck away like to write something that's good stuff. They're revealing the movie so funny too, because it's like it's not that bad. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like because I say, like, definitely watch the Live at the Royal Elbart Hall version. It used to be on Netflix. Um, I think maybe it still as might be like on Amazon or something now because I watched it with one of my more cynical friends who had seen the Schumacher movie and that was all he had ever seen, and like after he left at that it was just like, you know what, I get it. It's not for me, but like I get the Phantom thing again because it is. It is honestly, like kind of impressive how much the movie fails to capture what worked about the show, even though it doesn't really change much about the story. I am just gonna go home and watch um Mulan Rouge the only musical I like, and South Park bigger, longer than on Cut everything else. I hate musicals. Hey, let's talk about whether or not the movie passes the Bechtel test. Okay, I'm going with no. Yeah, I don't think so either. There is a scene early on when Christine talks to Meg, but they're talking about Raoul. She's like, we were childhood sweethearts. He called me little Bloodie or whatever. I Then later on they have a song where Christine and Meg sing to each other and Christine is telling her about the Angel of Music, but they're talking about who she perceives to be a man who is sent Yeah, but she at this point doesn't know who he is and seems to never figure it out through the entire movie. There's a brief exchange between Madame Jerry and Christine. Oh, this is no it does pass because this is after her first performance where she takes Carlotta's place and Madame She's like, yeah, like you did, you did very well. He's very pleased. Madame Jerry is now my least favorite character in this entire Madame Jerry is just a whitewash because even that character in the original novel was a Persian guy who was never in any of the adaptations. Even in the Launcheney movie, they're like Psych. He's not actually Persian, he's a French guy. I love that reveal of like, actually they were white the whole time, like in the Hunchback. Yeah, she's she's white. It's cool. Yeah, this isn't like a hundred percent white. I don't think you see any people of color at any point, which is funny because in the original book that was not the case. There you see some non white people in the Phantom flashback, but they're the portrayal is not good. We're like, ha ha, you're gross. They were it was like the circus was run by Roma, right right, Yeah, I think that's also there and all of them, some of them. There's one book that like I despise in every Phantom every other Fantom fan loves, called Just Phantom by Susan Kay and it's in the romance novel section. And for you, I know you're out there getting mad. I could feel you're anger. I don't care like um Boy because like during his time with the you know, they used the g slur the Roma they like kidnap him, putting into circus and there's one named Javert who like tries to rape him and it's Wolf. Okay, Well, Okay, so that's a hard no. Yeah, oh they love it. The girls love it so much. Yeah, I don't. I mean if women talk in the movie, they're always talking about either Rale or her daddy or the phantom. I don't think there's an exchange about something that's not any of those people. So does not pass the test unsurprisingly. Um, let's write the movie on our would actually say surprisingly, but musicals are usually a lot better about that. Yeah, and also no shortage of opportunity, even like from an adaptation point, like we never hear any of the many female dancers we see all the time, any of female chorus members, and they were missed opportunities sort of scattered. When I say unsurprisingly, I mean more that this movie is not good to women or does not portray them in a strong specifically to Oh, he sure doesn't have dark guys at a right right. Put the corset on the outside, Captain Underpin, you're bad. Um let's write the movie on a nipple scale, where we rate the movie on a scale of zero to five nipples based on its portrayal of women. I'm gonna give it, I'm gonna say a half nimble because hey, great, that there is a woman in the story, even more than one, there's several, so that's pretty much the only positive thing about it. Apart from that, it's a movie about a young woman, again being gas lit by every person around her, being seduced by an old creep. She is the object of his affection emphasis on object because she's really literally he literally objectifies her in the real like he turns her into object. Yeah. So, and there's a dress and she h she fainted and then she wakes up and she's like, actually, I could see myself hanging out with him again. Yeah, he's my angel of music. It was just a bad first impression, right, yeah yah yeah yeah yeah. So that and then her having no agency, no specific desire in the story, despite the fact that she's supposed to be the protagonist of the movie, the character that we're you know, rooting for and plugging ourselves into and all that stuff, we have no idea what she wants. We hardly see her make any active choices or do anything. Decisions are either made for her or she just does fucking nothing and just stands by and watches. And then all the other female characters are similarly useless. Therefore, one half nipple. It belongs to the shiny um golden statue nipple that we see in this I just want to draw a parallel. But between h Christine meeting the phantom and then meeting someone that you met online. He's like talking through the wall and she's like he sounds great. He says, oh, he's nice. He thinks I'm so pretty, and then you meet him. He was like, he's a murderer. Dolls. But you know, then you see them, You're like, oh, for sure you have a sword collection. For sure, you fucked dolls. I don't want to hear about your katanas, sir. That's I can think of three different examples of like going to a man's house for the first time and being like, Okay, there's a sword. I better just see myself out. Yeah, hard to pass. I'm gonna. I'm sorry. I'm gonna given of the amper two thousand and four dranted my jewel shoemaker. Did you give it any more than zero nipples? I'm gonna be furious. I'm gonna give it two nipples. I'm gonna do it, and I don't. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. First of all, I'm sorry. You know what, I'm sorry. I'm not sorry. I'm not sorry because Okay, Madame Jerry, especially in this movie, Garbage really like upset with her Meg nothing to do, We we don't know. Carlotta, I think, is a good character who's mistreated by the story, is particularly in this adaptation where she's just receiving abuse from angry poor people confusing. Um. So I like Carlotta, and I do like I think that Christine sort of in this movie in particular, uh and and in the stage adaptation, suffers from the same thing that Bella Swan suffers from, where she is a very clear figure that a young audience can plug themselves into sort of reacts to a lot of things, I think, and not too dissimilar to a way a teenage girl would. But then all the bad things that are happening to her are framed as good things, are romantic romanticizes her being like just give it, just oh, and even to the abuse the first you're gonna want to marry them, you know, Like so it sucks to see not realistic, but like a clear avatar that people can plug themselves into, have all the bad ship that happens to them framed as like, oh yeah, I just give up. That's fine. But I'm I'm I gotta give it two nipples. I have to, I have to. Well, then I take back my happen and I'm giving it zero just when we averaged out. It's just like worse than so many of the movies that we've seen them. That's what I'm thinking. It's like, what is the scale here, because if it's not a scale of all movies, you know, right where it's like there's so many. Maybe I'm biased because I hated this movie so much, for sure, but there's like I mean I feel like if this movie is zero nipples, then Twilight would have to certainly. I think I gave Twilight pretty close to zero nipples. I mean we didn't give it a lot. I gave Transformers. I think zeros like yeah, yeah, that's right. I don't know because like to me, zero nimbles would be like Transformers three, you know, like, because I'm just like compared to that, I'm like, woit, this is pretty good, you guys. I don't know what you're talking about because I watched a lot of Transformers, which is a great series. Check. Oh yeah, the whole place, the whole place my serious about film theory and Transformers very good. It's great, lots of lots of things I had certainly never thought about it regards to Transformers. Think about Transformers a lot. I think on the scale of movies we've covered here, it certainly does not do well. But I don't know. I mean, I think we're biased in opperst directions. I'm certainly biased in wanting to give it more nipples than it deserves because I love it. Phantom rules. I'm going to see it again. I'll see the movie again. I'll see the stage adaptation again. But I recognize that, you know, feminist icon Phantom of the Opera. I think not no, no, no, no, two nipples. Christine gets the nipples right. Yeah again, And for aforementioned reasons where if like zero is Transformers three, I'm gonna have to go with two and a half for reasons that you outlined, Like Karlotta, actually no, I'm gonna go back down to two because I feel like stage show, I'd give more because Carlotta doesn't receive that and just abuse and like is a little more. I mean, there's a lot of strange decisions in that. But you know, I think the fact that Christine is just sort of like a cipher in this or you know, as a huge disservice. But at the same time, it's like, man, there's a lot of really bad representations out there on the grand scheme. I'm like, it's better than Twilight. It is better than a Twilight. I don't know. I think it's about around the same. Really. I feel like that ending though, because like she she ends up with Edward, she does not end up with the Phantom, right right, But then she ends up with Raoul, who had also been gaslighting her and like being all weird, and he's like, you're a woman, so I need to protect you. And also there is no Phantom of the Opera, you're crazy. But also the man. Give the man some room to you know, be wrong. He can't be perfect and have room to grow. It changes my view of Rowl a little bit. That they're supposed to be the same age. I think that that's another sort of thing that is almost never true in the stage version or and certainly not in the movie version, where they never appear to be the same age. In reality, if they are, you know, suspend your disbelief. Patrick Wilson an Emmy rosmore the same age. Sure that makes role a little more palatable. I mean I still don't like the character. And yeah, because like there's no there is no role fandom in the grand like everyone, there's no team role. There's it's funny. Well, gang, that was a fan of the opera episode. I hope you liked it. I am so glad we did it. Yeah, I really thank you for joining us, thank you for having me, and of all the topics, I'm glad it was this one. And where where can people find you online? Well, I like on YouTube, it's my name on YouTube is just my name is Lindsay Ellis. You can also find me on Twitter at at the Lindsay Ellis awesome. Yeah, you can follow us on all the platforms Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, everything at Bechtel Cast. You can donate to our Patreon. If you do, it's five dollars a month and you get to bonus episodes a month of the podcast. Yeah, you can go to patreon dot com slash becktel Cast to do that. We strongly encourage it because it helps with our production costs and then we have great bonus episodes for you guys, the fans with pH I love it. I love it. Also, you should go to our live show. God, oh my words, oh heavens to Betsy. Wait, what is Kathy Bates and stripes? God, almighty, God, Ald God Almight. What we're trying to say is that we have a live show in Los Angeles. We sure do at the Nerdus Showroom at Mailtdown Comics. Yeah, we're sitting on top of it right now. It's on Saturday, December two at seven pm. Yes, we have a guest. Her name is Debora di Giovanni. You know where you love her. She's one of our most popular episodes of all time. Love actually, but this time we're talking with her about Die High, a Christmas movie that's dripping with masculinity. Oh, we cannot wait to and scream. So if you're in so cow Baby, check it out. Can't say baby, dude, it's so cowed baby rock on surfers and also longboards. Yeah, that's what they say every time they talk about the area we call a so cow Baby. So if you're there in that area, please come to our live show. Um tickets only ten dollars, and if you do come bring some feminine hygiene products because We're going to donate them to an organization called Project Caged Birds. They do a lot of help with like victim advocacy of intimate partner abuse, So we love that organization. So please, yes, bring something with you and come to the goddamn show. You're gonna have a blast. It's gonna be We've got a special, we've got a lot of treats planned treats. You might get a free movie ticket out of it. Not to spoil anything, but we talked about it yesterday and this time we made a plan. So hot brags we are. We're trying up here. We're prepared. Can't wait to try up your Season two Saturday, December second. Yeah, see the fine