Die Hard ('88) vs. Lethal Weapon ('87) - (Ep 3 of 3)

<v Speaker 1>Jingle Mel Jingle Mal jingle mel rock.
<v Speaker 2>All Right, everybody, welcome back to the Surely You Can't
<v Speaker 2>Be Serious Podcast? Jason, is this the episode that we
<v Speaker 2>start with someone plummeting off of the tall building? Or
<v Speaker 2>is this the episode that we end with someone plummeting
<v Speaker 2>off of the tall building? Well?
<v Speaker 1>I guess we can talk about both today, So I
<v Speaker 1>guess if you're ready, let's do this. Okay, ready?
<v Speaker 2>One?
<v Speaker 1>Two? Is it one? Two?
<v Speaker 2>Three?
<v Speaker 1>And then go? Or do we go on three? Welcome back, everybody.
<v Speaker 1>We are so excited. This is episode three of the
<v Speaker 1>Diehard versus Lethal Weapon.
<v Speaker 2>This is the last episode of our movie comparisons of
<v Speaker 2>the year. But we may have something special in store
<v Speaker 2>just before Christmas.
<v Speaker 1>Which will that be a surprise that's right coming Christmas
<v Speaker 1>Eve or maybe twenty third, We're not sure yet. Quick
<v Speaker 1>shout out to our new Patreon member Brad Moore. He
<v Speaker 1>is the executive producer of today's show.
<v Speaker 2>Brad, Thank you so much for donating through Patreon. It
<v Speaker 2>means so much to us. We can't express it. If
<v Speaker 2>anybody else would like to be an executive producer, it's
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<v Speaker 1>Thank you guys so much. And here we go with episode.
<v Speaker 2>Three, any dingle Heart all of the tales in Western
<v Speaker 2>Civilization that have a love story and component have a
<v Speaker 2>guy saving a princess, right, yeah, that's just part of it,
<v Speaker 2>so absolutely. And then we've got Death of Number two
<v Speaker 2>and leathal Weapon mister Joshua, Mister Joshua, which is preceded
<v Speaker 2>by a fight scene, yes, which is really dumb. It's
<v Speaker 2>a little absurd, It's yes, it is. It's incredibly incredibly dumb,
<v Speaker 2>and I love watching it. It's every single time. It
<v Speaker 2>is like the oxygen tank in the mouth of Jaws.
<v Speaker 2>That's just absurd. But if you've come along this far
<v Speaker 2>along in the ride, you want that payoff, You're ready
<v Speaker 2>for it, and you buy in full tilt. You got
<v Speaker 2>Marta refusing refusing to follow the rules just so that
<v Speaker 2>riggs can have his fisticuffs with mister Joshua.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, but can you imagine coming to end of that movie,
<v Speaker 1>you have Special Forces Killer one, Special Forces Killer two,
<v Speaker 1>and they arrest him and take him without a fight.
<v Speaker 2>No way, right, right?
<v Speaker 1>So Riggs asking for if he wants to shot the title.
<v Speaker 2>So cowboy, it is so cowboy, so amazing, and.
<v Speaker 1>The entire LA Police Department along with the helicopter say yeah,
<v Speaker 1>heck yeah, let's let these guys fight.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, And then, of course it can't end with just
<v Speaker 2>a beat up. It's got to end with bullets, right, absolutely,
<v Speaker 2>bullets from both of our heroes.
<v Speaker 1>Yes.
<v Speaker 2>And then we have and die Hard, the twist ending,
<v Speaker 2>the surprise return and resurrection of what we thought was
<v Speaker 2>the dead villain.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, Carl.
<v Speaker 2>And who is it that saves the day?
<v Speaker 1>Not Roy, No, absolutely not. It's it's Al Palell.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he has made his transition to he has become
<v Speaker 2>that thing that he was afraid of becoming again gun. Yep.
<v Speaker 1>Listen, when I saw Diehard in the theater. Yeah, and
<v Speaker 1>I'm not exaggerating, people stood and cheered, Yeah, stood and
<v Speaker 1>cheered in a movie.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>When Al Powell pulled.
<v Speaker 2>His gun yep. Because it's freaking awesome, right, and the
<v Speaker 2>guy who you just think is the fat twinkie eating
<v Speaker 2>can't drive a car cop is ultimately the guy who
<v Speaker 2>saves the hero in the movie.
<v Speaker 1>Without a doubt.
<v Speaker 2>I love it.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean too.
<v Speaker 2>And that brings us to the end. Happy endings in
<v Speaker 2>both movies. Happy ending for die Hard. You get kiss
<v Speaker 2>in the window of the limo as they drive away
<v Speaker 2>into the sunset. I realize it's not into the sunset,
<v Speaker 2>but it looks.
<v Speaker 1>Like it, right, it could be, And you get that
<v Speaker 1>great line from Argyle. This is their idea of Christmas.
<v Speaker 1>I got to be here for New.
<v Speaker 2>Year's right while it's snowing, bear bonds right because it
<v Speaker 2>doesn't snow in La No, it's fantastic now. The ending
<v Speaker 2>for Leith a Weapon, unsurprisingly by Shane Black, was not
<v Speaker 2>supposed to be a happy ending. It was a parting
<v Speaker 2>of ways, we're not going to see each other anymore.
<v Speaker 2>But by the end of the movie they said, now
<v Speaker 2>we can't do that. We have to have we have
<v Speaker 2>to have the Hollywood ending.
<v Speaker 1>They filled it. Did you see that scene?
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely so. Yeah, it's depressing. It's depressing, yes, now, and
<v Speaker 2>Shane Shane Black is kind of big on this. You know,
<v Speaker 2>doesn't like the Hollywood endings, which is why Riggs dies
<v Speaker 2>at the end of his Lethal Weapon twy script that
<v Speaker 2>he wrote.
<v Speaker 1>Rigs it gets shot nineteen times at the end of
<v Speaker 1>leath Weapon two right, and is like and lives and
<v Speaker 1>worries about you know, throw little cigarettes away.
<v Speaker 2>What we do get is the moment where he hands
<v Speaker 2>the bullet over right. We realize that he does. He
<v Speaker 2>says it he doesn't need it anymore because at the
<v Speaker 2>beginning of the movie he was alone. He meets this guy.
<v Speaker 2>They're obviously at odds. They're bickering the whole movie, but
<v Speaker 2>by the end he has a new family.
<v Speaker 1>He does, He's been adopted into the Murtav family. He says,
<v Speaker 1>if you think I'm gonna eat the world's worst Christmas
<v Speaker 1>tinner by myself, you're crazy. And Rick says, I'll tell
<v Speaker 1>you a little secret. I'm not crazy. Yeah, it's great,
<v Speaker 1>love it. It's an ending with a Christmas bow on top.
<v Speaker 2>Yeap. As a kid of the eighties, I like Hollywood endings,
<v Speaker 2>absolutely right. I don't want my hero to die at
<v Speaker 2>the end.
<v Speaker 1>No, no, which is why we hated the last Jedi.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So that does it for me for the plot.
<v Speaker 2>You got anything else?
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I got tia, but it's coming out my nose.
<v Speaker 1>Come all right, So here's a few things for you. Okay.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>Did you know that Leonard Nimoy was originally supposed to
<v Speaker 1>direct Leth the Weapon? No? Yeah, okay, so Leonard Nimoy
<v Speaker 1>ended up doing three Minutes a baby instead of Leth
<v Speaker 1>a Weapon.
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, kind of interesting. Right. Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>There's a point in the movie at the beginning Murta
<v Speaker 1>tells Riggs that Huntsacker saved his life in a certain
<v Speaker 1>battle in Vietnam. Right, Bell Gibson portrays this exact battle,
<v Speaker 1>and we were soldiers.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that was it. We were soldiers.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, I got something that's going to blow away. Okay, okay,
<v Speaker 1>here you go. This is gonna blow you No, no, no,
<v Speaker 1>I got something that's gonna blow you wad Okay, this
<v Speaker 1>will blow your doors off.
<v Speaker 2>Okay.
<v Speaker 1>The bretta that Mel Gibson uses in this film is
<v Speaker 1>the same prop gun used in die Hard that Bruce
<v Speaker 1>Willis tapes to his back. What same gun? No, same gun? Okay,
<v Speaker 1>according to my extensive internet research, same gun. According to
<v Speaker 1>an obscure webs law. Okay. A running gag in the
<v Speaker 1>Lethal Weapon movies is the one two wait wait wait
<v Speaker 1>wait heys one, two, three and then go or one
<v Speaker 1>dude like three? Right this running gag? Part two yes,
<v Speaker 1>but it starts between Rigs and Merta and part two Yes,
<v Speaker 1>when Myrta is on the toilet, Yes, toilet bomb. But
<v Speaker 1>if you'll, if you'll go back to the beginning of
<v Speaker 1>Lethal Weapon, when they are singing Silent Night, when the
<v Speaker 1>cops are seen in Silent Night so bad they can't
<v Speaker 1>they can't figure out when they're going to start. That's right, Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>that's right.
<v Speaker 2>I forgot I noticed that as I was watching it
<v Speaker 2>this most recent time. It wasn't until this most recent time.
<v Speaker 2>But they're like wait, wait, wait.
<v Speaker 1>Wait, the cops keep starting too soon.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah right. A couple of things on Diehard that you
<v Speaker 2>may not know. Yes, Hans Booby.
<v Speaker 1>Hans Booby, I'm your White Knight.
<v Speaker 2>Improvised line by ellis totally so when you see Hans's reaction,
<v Speaker 2>when you see Alan Rickman's reaction, it's genuine because he
<v Speaker 2>was not expecting that.
<v Speaker 1>I must have missed sixty minutes. What are you saying,
<v Speaker 1>can we let's talk about Elis for one second. Okay,
<v Speaker 1>he is the biggest sleeves ball. Huh cokehead, yep, scumbag. Right,
<v Speaker 1>here's something that I have a theory on. You ready
<v Speaker 1>for this?
<v Speaker 2>Yes, they make.
<v Speaker 1>This big to do about l us have. I mean
<v Speaker 1>they they crack open a coke, can pour it, fill
<v Speaker 1>it up. He's drinking it.
<v Speaker 2>Uh huh.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, yeah, here's what I'm thinking. Yeah, I think Ellis
<v Speaker 1>asked somebody there if they had any coke, probably right,
<v Speaker 1>that's probably right, and they went and got him Coca cola.
<v Speaker 2>Here's one for you. Okay, Okay. So they brought in
<v Speaker 2>Stephen Desuza to add additional lines, try to get some
<v Speaker 2>humor in there. Yep. He first meets Bruce Willis. They're
<v Speaker 2>only five years age difference. Stephens Desuza is five years
<v Speaker 2>older than Bruce Willis. Okay, and they start talking and
<v Speaker 2>they realized that they grew up in the same area. Oh,
<v Speaker 2>by the way, most German actor in this movie Bruce
<v Speaker 2>Willis because he was born in Germany, but he was
<v Speaker 2>raised in New Jersey, which is where Stephen de Seuzan
<v Speaker 2>was raised. They knew some of the same hangouts. They're
<v Speaker 2>having a good time. They start talking about old TV
<v Speaker 2>shows that they liked, and one of the old TV
<v Speaker 2>shows that they liked was Roy Rogers Call Me Roy. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>and they both start talking about Yippi kaya and how
<v Speaker 2>much they like that line, and the SUSA says, I'm
<v Speaker 2>going to get that in the movie somehow. I want
<v Speaker 2>to get that in the movie. And so that's how
<v Speaker 2>you get the yip kya in the line.
<v Speaker 1>That is fantastic. Yes, let's talk about that line.
<v Speaker 2>For a second.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, go ahead, Okay, we are a PG thirteen podcast.
<v Speaker 1>We're not going to say the big m I first,
<v Speaker 1>so don't turn us off. But that line, Yeah, Bruce
<v Speaker 1>Willis drops it like a freaking atomic bomb. Okay, so
<v Speaker 1>like whispered, subtle, brilliant. He sprinkles f words throughout diehard. Okay,
<v Speaker 1>they're all over the place, but this one is a
<v Speaker 1>freaking cruise missile, right, And he says it was such
<v Speaker 1>cool and such style. Yes, and it's one of the
<v Speaker 1>greatest movie lines of all time that I can't say
<v Speaker 1>on this podcast. Yes, Yippi kaye. Yeah, it's so good.
<v Speaker 2>So at one point they had been filming all day,
<v Speaker 2>all day long, de Susan goes home as soon as
<v Speaker 2>he walks in the doors two o'clock in the morning.
<v Speaker 2>Soon as he walks in the door, Joel Silver calls
<v Speaker 2>him up and says, you got to come back. He's like,
<v Speaker 2>what why? He goes These morons built the vents.
<v Speaker 3>To spec so they had this whole plan that Bruce
<v Speaker 3>Willis is supposed to crawl through the vents, but instead
<v Speaker 3>of building them big enough for him to go through,
<v Speaker 3>they build them as normal size vents, which is why
<v Speaker 3>you have this.
<v Speaker 2>Tight enclosed moment. And so Desusa comes back, and that's
<v Speaker 2>where you get the line of come out to the coast.
<v Speaker 2>We'll get together, we'll have a few less That one
<v Speaker 2>was Desusa and then the now I know what it
<v Speaker 2>feels like to be a TV dinner. That was Bruce
<v Speaker 2>Willis improv Wow, that's awesome. Oh and and him getting
<v Speaker 2>into the vent that was I mean I watched that scene.
<v Speaker 2>There's no freaking way that any human being can fall
<v Speaker 2>that far and catch them. The stuntman was supposed to
<v Speaker 2>catch the vent before it he missed.
<v Speaker 1>Here's the deal. The stuntman was supposed to grab that ledge. Yes,
<v Speaker 1>he slipped, fell, hit the air, bag like four stories down. Oh,
<v Speaker 1>but they cut in that quick oh where.
<v Speaker 2>He barely misses, like he hits it. But then you
<v Speaker 2>can tell that guy false.
<v Speaker 1>You can see it clears that he is plummeting. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>and but they're like, no, we can still use that.
<v Speaker 2>We'll just cut it that. Yeah, cut to his fingers,
<v Speaker 2>to his fingers. Yeah, okay, that makes sense.
<v Speaker 1>Hey, did you know there's one scene in particular Bruce
<v Speaker 1>Willis wears fake rubber feet. Oh, yeah, so that he
<v Speaker 1>can run across the glass. Yeah, shoot the glass.
<v Speaker 2>Why does he speak to him in English? They're both
<v Speaker 2>supposed to be German. He says something in German, Carl
<v Speaker 2>doesn't understand, and so then he says in English, shoot
<v Speaker 2>the glass. Because he's not talking us. He's not talking,
<v Speaker 2>he's talking to the audience. Right, So good. I got
<v Speaker 2>to say that I love in both of these movies
<v Speaker 2>that you get your exposition through the arguments of the characters.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Like that's an amazing thing.
<v Speaker 2>Like we talked about how in you know, we had
<v Speaker 2>a great exposition moment in Raiders because he's teaching the
<v Speaker 2>government guys about the arc, right, and so it's this opportunity.
<v Speaker 2>But he's I mean, it's an obvious exposition. He's telling
<v Speaker 2>a long story. It's not an argument. And the same
<v Speaker 2>thing with Back to the Future, you've got doc explaining
<v Speaker 2>time travel because they're document documenting everything with the TV.
<v Speaker 2>But with both of these movies, you don't have any
<v Speaker 2>of that one character telling a long exposition type of thing.
<v Speaker 2>It's all just an exchange, like them trying to paper thin, right,
<v Speaker 2>this idea that there's something more going on than just
<v Speaker 2>a bad drug deal until the paper thin pays off.
<v Speaker 2>But it's always arguments between them. Yes, same thing in Dieard.
<v Speaker 2>It's the arguments between Hans and John Roy or whatever.
<v Speaker 2>It's the arguments between Dwayne t. Robinson and John or
<v Speaker 2>Al Powell or those conversations that really informs the audience
<v Speaker 2>about what's going on. I just I thought that was
<v Speaker 2>a great way to write a skillful both circumstances.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, okay, a couple of little tidbits on Lethal Weapon.
<v Speaker 1>Danny Glover and Gary Busey appear again together in Predator
<v Speaker 1>Part two. Yep, Okay, here's one of the things I
<v Speaker 1>wanted to mention to you. There's a couple of setups
<v Speaker 1>in Lethal Weapon one that come to fruition in Lethal
<v Speaker 1>Weapon two that I want to mention briefly and then
<v Speaker 1>maybe we can get into sequels a little bit. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>there is a bumper sticker that's taped to the Murtaz
<v Speaker 1>refrigerator that says and apartheid. In part two, the bad
<v Speaker 1>guys are South African. Also Riggs's wife Vicky Riggs. Yes,
<v Speaker 1>Victoria Riggs. Yeah, she was killed by the South African
<v Speaker 1>bad guys that you find out that part too, Yes,
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, okay, do we want to talk about sequels
<v Speaker 1>real quick?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, go ahead, let's talk about sequels. Here's an interesting thing,
<v Speaker 2>you know. I talked about how Bill and Ted face
<v Speaker 2>the music starts off kind of slow. Yes, I don't
<v Speaker 2>really think about it, but that kind of was the
<v Speaker 2>way movies started out until Leith A Weapon Too. Leth
<v Speaker 2>a Weapon Too is really if I'm looking back, it's
<v Speaker 2>the first movie that I can think of where you
<v Speaker 2>start in the middle of the action and it's fantastic.
<v Speaker 1>It's not like you just start at adventure. You're in
<v Speaker 1>the middle of a car chase.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>Like the opening title sequence, Rigs is pounding the ceiling.
<v Speaker 1>I love this job. It's full throttle. Right out of
<v Speaker 1>the gate. Leath the Weapon two has a lot more humor.
<v Speaker 1>It's it's leaning on that chemistry between those two actors,
<v Speaker 1>and it's absolutely fun. You still have Crazy Rigs. It's
<v Speaker 1>way more funny.
<v Speaker 2>It's funny. It's certainly got its way. It's way dark
<v Speaker 2>in spot. Yeah. Yeah, I mean you've got the death
<v Speaker 2>of the hot South African girl. Yeah. I can't remember
<v Speaker 2>her name, but anyway.
<v Speaker 1>Which I don't know if you know this or not,
<v Speaker 1>you can google deleted scenes for Leath.
<v Speaker 2>Weapon two show her mispronouncing her name. Yes, pronounce it's
<v Speaker 2>her name like five yes. Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>You could also see a original ending where she's having
<v Speaker 1>Thanksgiving dinner with Riggs and mertas she lived the first
<v Speaker 1>time through. Oh wow, But they changed it because they
<v Speaker 1>wanted Crazy Rigs to come out.
<v Speaker 2>So I get great. Yeah, that's right, that's right.
<v Speaker 1>Anyway, Leath the Weapon two, love it.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>Leath Weapon three fun with the one on gently No, that's.
<v Speaker 2>Four okay, that's the one where we get Rene Russo
<v Speaker 2>for the first time.
<v Speaker 1>You get Renee Russo in part three she's introduced, but
<v Speaker 1>part two you get Leo gets introduced.
<v Speaker 2>Which is Joe Pesci fantastic, fantastic.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. When I asked my wife what her favorite part
<v Speaker 1>of Leith the Weapon was, yes, all she could tell
<v Speaker 1>me was Leo gets line. Right, okay, No, they have
<v Speaker 1>you the drive through, yeah okay, and then it progresses.
<v Speaker 1>So two three four you have jet Lee and.
<v Speaker 2>You by the way, sorry before we go too far.
<v Speaker 2>That Leo gets part was originally written for John Lovetts.
<v Speaker 2>The character was based on something they saw on Three Amigos,
<v Speaker 2>John Lovett's part and Three Amigos. They saw that and
<v Speaker 2>that was the inspiration for Leo gets part. They wrote
<v Speaker 2>it for John LOVETTZ. Joe Eschi is Edged Indoor.
<v Speaker 1>Remember love Love love that character.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>So two three four of Leeth Weapon, you yourself just
<v Speaker 1>said you can kind of missmash them because they're all great, right,
<v Speaker 1>I mean great is a strong, they're all fun.
<v Speaker 2>Are we going to talk about five?
<v Speaker 1>Let's talk about five.
<v Speaker 2>Five is in the works.
<v Speaker 1>It's twenty twenty.
<v Speaker 2>Mel Gibson is sixty four years old.
<v Speaker 1>What's Danny Glover? If he was fifty and eighty seven,
<v Speaker 1>that means he's eighty three.
<v Speaker 2>Dick Donner is ninety and he's doing it.
<v Speaker 1>Good for him, for ear least web in five.
<v Speaker 2>Sure, I don't know what they're gonna do with it,
<v Speaker 2>but sure, let's do it.
<v Speaker 1>Heck yeah, yeah, yes, more old. He was too old
<v Speaker 1>for it in eighty seven, and he's not.
<v Speaker 2>Too old for anyone.
<v Speaker 1>It's great. Yeah, okay, die Hard sequels. Okay, die Hard
<v Speaker 1>Part one one of the greatest action movies of all time.
<v Speaker 2>Ar you believe, the perfect action movie.
<v Speaker 1>I'm not gonna argue against that.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>Part two good, good, very good.
<v Speaker 2>Again. You trade in your German mercenaries for your American mercenaries.
<v Speaker 2>You've got a couple of bad guys to be concerned about.
<v Speaker 2>You've got the confined space again. It is right, Yes,
<v Speaker 2>I mean it is. It is another die Hard. It
<v Speaker 2>for sure is.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, a step down, but who wouldn't step down from
<v Speaker 1>a ten?
<v Speaker 2>Right?
<v Speaker 1>I mean it's it's it's still a very good movie. Yes, okay.
<v Speaker 1>Part three, Diehard with the Vengeance. It's good, it's good,
<v Speaker 1>It's okay, it's okay. He's running around New York City
<v Speaker 1>trying to figure out clues. Simon says, this, do that
<v Speaker 1>and this that was written as a lethal weapon sequel.
<v Speaker 1>What Diehard with a Vengeance was originally written as a
<v Speaker 1>Lethal Weapon sequel. Oh my gosh, wow, So there you go.
<v Speaker 2>So Shane Black tells a story about going to he
<v Speaker 2>did the rewrites for Last Action.
<v Speaker 1>He wrote, okay, right, the last movie that I walk
<v Speaker 1>out of, right, Yes.
<v Speaker 2>And what I understand is John McTurnan rewrote the rewrites,
<v Speaker 2>which is why you have such a terrible movie. And
<v Speaker 2>so it comes out and obviously everybody felt about the
<v Speaker 2>same way that you did. Yeah, it was not a
<v Speaker 2>well received movie at all. And so they have their
<v Speaker 2>after party where everybody can't talk about the movie. Well,
<v Speaker 2>food sure is good. So and so she Black tells
<v Speaker 2>the story of how he like after that is over.
<v Speaker 2>He and Arnold and John mcdernan are sitting there having
<v Speaker 2>a beer together. I just can't even imagine that, but
<v Speaker 2>talking about it, and basically they changed the subject to
<v Speaker 2>Diehard with a Vengeance and John mcdernon starts smiling again
<v Speaker 2>because he was totally defeated after Last Action. Hero did
<v Speaker 2>so badly, but he was he came back to direct
<v Speaker 2>Diehard with a Vengeance.
<v Speaker 1>What about Diehard four and five?
<v Speaker 2>I didn't even watch their crap. Yeah they're crap. Yeah, Well,
<v Speaker 2>here's what happens. He turns into the invincible hero. Right. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>he went from a flawed hero which we love and
<v Speaker 2>can identify with, to Superman who it's it's not interesting.
<v Speaker 1>The action was absurd, So sequels I definitely. Oh and
<v Speaker 1>Lethal Weapon has a TV show that was well received
<v Speaker 1>until the guy who played Martin Riggs got fired. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>that's that's a story for another day, right, But the
<v Speaker 1>sequels for Lethal Weapon are definitely stronger than the sequels
<v Speaker 1>for Diehard.
<v Speaker 2>I think maybe my favorite sequel to die Hard right
<v Speaker 2>now is the Diehard Battery commercial. That is where he
<v Speaker 2>crashes through the window and says, I'm going to need
<v Speaker 2>one of those and then.
<v Speaker 1>Hops into the Great Man. It's great.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, Okay, little note on John mctarne. Did you know
<v Speaker 2>that he was arrested and then went to prison. What
<v Speaker 2>So we're talking about one of the biggest directors of
<v Speaker 2>the eighties and nineties. He is potentially a guy who
<v Speaker 2>can call his own shot, right, Yeah, for sure. So
<v Speaker 2>there's even after the last Action, even after the last
<v Speaker 2>Action Hero, he still got tired with a vengeance. He's
<v Speaker 2>still got a ton of movies to his credit. And
<v Speaker 2>then he hires this guy.
<v Speaker 1>Named Anthony Pelicano.
<v Speaker 2>He was a private investigator, also a fixer, also a
<v Speaker 2>really slimy guy, and was used by a lot of
<v Speaker 2>Hollywood folks and basically got a lot of dirt on
<v Speaker 2>a whole lot of Hollywood folks as well. So he
<v Speaker 2>used him to spy on his wife whenever they were
<v Speaker 2>getting a divorce, and then he also called him back
<v Speaker 2>up again whenever he was directing the movie Rollerball, because
<v Speaker 2>he was worried that this producer on Rollerball was trying
<v Speaker 2>to sabotage him, and so he wanted to have this
<v Speaker 2>guy check and make sure he wasn't sabotaging him. Well,
<v Speaker 2>this guy's tactics were not legal in the strictest sense
<v Speaker 2>of the word, and he got in some big trouble
<v Speaker 2>with the FEDS, and so an FBI agent calls John
<v Speaker 2>mcturnaon and says, hey, have you ever used this Anthony
<v Speaker 2>Pelicana as a private investigator? John mcturn and says, yeah,
<v Speaker 2>I used him whenever I was going through my divorce.
<v Speaker 2>So I had him, you know, do some investigation of
<v Speaker 2>my wife. And they have the investigators like anything else,
<v Speaker 2>and John return says, no.
<v Speaker 1>That's a lie.
<v Speaker 2>That would be lying. That would be lying to a
<v Speaker 2>federal officer, which is a felony offense. And so ultimately,
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to go into the big story of it,
<v Speaker 2>but you know, he agreed to do four months and
<v Speaker 2>then he withdrew it and then ended up doing twelve
<v Speaker 2>months in prison, filed for bankruptcy while he was in
<v Speaker 2>prison and lost. I mean, it's gosh, huge, huge deal
<v Speaker 2>for this guy who's like at the top of the wave.
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's just crazy that somebody at that position
<v Speaker 2>could lose it all. Its tragic.
<v Speaker 1>It is the guy who directed Predator, the guy who
<v Speaker 1>directed Diehard, Last Action Hero Hunt Forred October. This guy
<v Speaker 1>went to jail and lost it all.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, let's talk composers.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, before you do that. I got one little titbit
<v Speaker 1>that I wanted to throw in and that I forgot
<v Speaker 1>to do it. The other day, when John is plucking
<v Speaker 1>glass out of his feet, al Pal is like, how
<v Speaker 1>you doing, and he makes the comment he says, all
<v Speaker 1>things being equal, I'd rather be in Philadelphia. Yes, okay, this,
<v Speaker 1>I've heard this quote my entire life. I knew was
<v Speaker 1>referencing something, but I didn't know until I started looking
<v Speaker 1>I know it.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, this is one of those things. This is the
<v Speaker 2>trivia card I would get. I know this. This is
<v Speaker 2>the last words in W. C. Fields. Yeah, yes, it's fantastic.
<v Speaker 1>So W. C. Fields was born and raised in Philadelphia
<v Speaker 1>and would often poke fun at his hometown. And basically
<v Speaker 1>the reference was the grave was just slightly worse than
<v Speaker 1>being in Philadelphia. But the interesting thing. So this is
<v Speaker 1>a famous W. C. Fields quote President Reagan. After he
<v Speaker 1>was shot, he wrote on a note, They said how
<v Speaker 1>do you feel? And he said, all in all, I'd
<v Speaker 1>rather be in Philadelphia.
<v Speaker 2>Fantastic. Okay, So let's talk composers. Okay, except that we're
<v Speaker 2>not going to talk composers. We're going to talk composer
<v Speaker 2>because it's the same guy for both movies. So Michael
<v Speaker 2>Kaman is a guy who has a huge library of
<v Speaker 2>film work. I mean, it's amazing. And he's not one
<v Speaker 2>of those ones that pops up like Con Zimmer or
<v Speaker 2>John Williams or any of those guys that I did
<v Speaker 2>not know his name before we started looking into this,
<v Speaker 2>but it's huge. He's I mean, his music work is huge,
<v Speaker 2>and he was a guy who was classically trained but
<v Speaker 2>also just had a love for all kinds of music,
<v Speaker 2>and he did stuff with so many rock and rolls artists.
<v Speaker 2>I don't think I could possibly list them all. Wanted
<v Speaker 2>to be a composer's whole life. But he started off
<v Speaker 2>arranging music with Pink Floyd for the movie The Wall.
<v Speaker 2>But he worked with Roger Waters, David Gilmore, Queen. He
<v Speaker 2>did the orchestration for Who Wants to Live Forever from Highland,
<v Speaker 2>was the composer for Highlander, worked with Eric Clapton Aerosmith.
<v Speaker 2>He did the live orchestral part for Dreamson. He worked
<v Speaker 2>with Bond Jovi. He worked with the Arrhythmics, Metallica on
<v Speaker 2>the Nothing Else Matters and their whole that Whole live
<v Speaker 2>album that they did the ES and M he was
<v Speaker 2>the s part. He was the symphony for their Metallica's
<v Speaker 2>That's Fantastic. Why have we not heard of this guy?
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I don't know. He passed away like
<v Speaker 2>in November eighteenth, two thousand and three, of a heart attack.
<v Speaker 2>But he got called on to work on leth the Weapon,
<v Speaker 2>and he said, no, I'm not interested in action movies.
<v Speaker 2>I don't like action movies. I don't want to do them,
<v Speaker 2>and I think it might have been Eric Clapton that
<v Speaker 2>persuaded him to become involved with the movie, because you've
<v Speaker 2>got two themes going on with leith a Weapon. You've
<v Speaker 2>got the sex theme, Sexy Sax, and you've got the
<v Speaker 2>guitar theme. So the Sacks theme is Roger Marta, the
<v Speaker 2>guitar theme is Martin Riggs. And then he goes on
<v Speaker 2>to do action movie after action movie after action movie.
<v Speaker 2>So after Lethal Weapon, he did Adventures and Babysitting.
<v Speaker 1>Nobody gets out of Here without playing the Blues.
<v Speaker 2>He did Renegades, he did License to Kill, he did Roadhouse,
<v Speaker 2>he did Lethal Weapon two, he did Die Hard too.
<v Speaker 2>He did Nothing but Trouble. He did Hudson Hawk, he
<v Speaker 2>did Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves. He did The Last
<v Speaker 2>Boy Scout, he did Tales from the Crypt, he did
<v Speaker 2>Lethal Weapon three, he did Last Action Hero, he did
<v Speaker 2>The Three Musketeers, he did Don Juan de Marco. I
<v Speaker 2>mean it just goes on and on and on. I
<v Speaker 2>mean it's and then he in ninety five he did
<v Speaker 2>Mister Hollands Opus and oh yeah, you're a fan, right, yeah, yeah.
<v Speaker 2>So after that he started his own foundation called Mister
<v Speaker 2>Holland's Foundation that would provide used musical equipment for underprivileged sklls. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>it's great.
<v Speaker 1>You mentioned Eric Clapton. Eric Clapton actually does play the
<v Speaker 1>guitar for the leath of Weapon rigs theme.
<v Speaker 2>Obviously he's got the leth of Weapon theme. And then
<v Speaker 2>of course he did the music for Diehard as well,
<v Speaker 2>and it is I mean, we know it's Beethoven, right,
<v Speaker 2>we know.
<v Speaker 1>It's absolutely joy, yes, but I.
<v Speaker 2>Mean in order to do that, you have to be
<v Speaker 2>able to take that and not only cut it down,
<v Speaker 2>but slip it in and make it relevant to what's
<v Speaker 2>going on in the film. And he did it so well.
<v Speaker 2>I mean that music is perfect throughout. He uses it
<v Speaker 2>throughout the movie along with the little jingle bells to
<v Speaker 2>make sure that we remember that this is a Christmas movie.
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, yes, you know you talked about it at the
<v Speaker 1>beginning at the Christmas party. Yeah, there is a four
<v Speaker 1>piece orchestra at the Christmas party playing Ode to Joy.
<v Speaker 1>That's diegetic music, diagetic music again, and he does slip
<v Speaker 1>it in. He teases you with it. And then when
<v Speaker 1>they open the vault and Hans and theo are raiding
<v Speaker 1>the place, you get oh to joy a full tilt right,
<v Speaker 1>it's peak.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, at that peak moment, and then what does he say?
<v Speaker 2>Merry Christmas?
<v Speaker 1>It's time. Okay, we've been waiting.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's got to talk about it now.
<v Speaker 1>So here's the deal. We've been teasing this. I have
<v Speaker 1>my own battles with my sister. She and I go
<v Speaker 1>back and forth on this. I have a friend, Dana Smith.
<v Speaker 1>She likes to poke the bear when she teases me
<v Speaker 1>about this. Are these Christmas movies?
<v Speaker 2>D Let's go they are definitely Christmas movies. That's not
<v Speaker 2>just an opinion. We can we can establish this through
<v Speaker 2>empirical and now of the evidence in front of us.
<v Speaker 2>So okay, despite the fact that Bruce Willis caused a
<v Speaker 2>stir about three years ago whenever he during his roast,
<v Speaker 2>he made this point of I only did this to
<v Speaker 2>say that this that die Hard is not a Christmas movie. Okay,
<v Speaker 2>I'll due respect, Bruce. You didn't write the movie, that's right.
<v Speaker 2>You know who wrote the movie, Stephen, Stephen Jesus. You
<v Speaker 2>know what Stephen and Susan says.
<v Speaker 1>It's the greatest Christmas movie of all time.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and he even created a chart. He created a
<v Speaker 2>chart to prove his point, and.
<v Speaker 1>We'll go through that.
<v Speaker 2>And he just obviously he just has die Hard that
<v Speaker 2>he's taken off these points on. But let's look at
<v Speaker 2>both Leath the Weapon and die Hard and the movie
<v Speaker 2>White Christmas. Who know one no one would argue that
<v Speaker 2>White Christmas is not a Christmas movie. But let's look
<v Speaker 2>at them all side by side. And you tell us,
<v Speaker 2>after this empirical analysis of the evidence in front of us,
<v Speaker 2>what you think. All right, let's go all right side
<v Speaker 2>by side. Here we go. Okay, takes place during Christmas holiday.
<v Speaker 2>Die Hard, yes, takes place entirely during Christmas Eve, right, absolutely, Okay,
<v Speaker 2>Lethal Weapon takes place week at the most, but clearly
<v Speaker 2>first scene is him buying Christmas trees when he makes
<v Speaker 2>his drug bust. Last scene is You're not gonna make
<v Speaker 2>me eat the worst Christmas dinner by myself. And so
<v Speaker 2>obviously the whole movie takes place during the Christmas holiday. Yep,
<v Speaker 2>White Christmas final reel, only the rest of the movie
<v Speaker 2>does not take place during the Christmas holiday a all
<v Speaker 2>right setting, Okay, die Hard obviously yes, Christmas part right, yep.
<v Speaker 2>But we know from the movie in Lethal Weapon that
<v Speaker 2>they are preparing for some sort of party because they
<v Speaker 2>have the quartet of officers practicing singing Silent Nights, So
<v Speaker 2>there has to be some sort of event, which is
<v Speaker 2>why they're prepping for this, which, as you mentioned, was
<v Speaker 2>really the birth of is it do we go on
<v Speaker 2>three or do we go one two three? Then go?
<v Speaker 2>That's right, that was the birth of that. But still
<v Speaker 2>they're singing in preparation. They're practicing in preparation for something.
<v Speaker 2>So again, you have a Christmas party, White Christmas again,
<v Speaker 2>only the final real.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, hold on one second before we move off from
<v Speaker 1>Silent Night.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>Do you know the name of the composer of Silent Night?
<v Speaker 1>The original Austrian composer's name is Franz Gruber. No, yes,
<v Speaker 1>what Franz Gruber?
<v Speaker 2>Wow? Oh my gosh. That's the point, die Hard, that's
<v Speaker 2>really amazing. All right. So number of Christmas songs so
<v Speaker 2>far White Christmas is losing two out of two battles,
<v Speaker 2>right right, Okay, so number of Christmas songs in Lethal Weapon.
<v Speaker 2>We have the beginning song jingle Bo Rock, jing Bell Rock.
<v Speaker 1>We have the.
<v Speaker 2>Quartet of officers singing Silent Night, yes, and we also
<v Speaker 2>have what.
<v Speaker 1>Else you've got the Bugs Bunny Holiday special playing in
<v Speaker 1>the background.
<v Speaker 2>That counts.
<v Speaker 1>When Riggs is looking down the barrel of his own.
<v Speaker 2>Gun, that counts.
<v Speaker 1>That counts.
<v Speaker 2>So die Hard has three. It has let it snow,
<v Speaker 2>it has Winter Wonderland, and it has Christmas in Hollis
<v Speaker 2>by run dp MC and so three three, and what
<v Speaker 2>does White Christmas have? It has White Christmas and snow.
<v Speaker 2>And that's it again, three for three. White Christmas is
<v Speaker 2>losing to both die Hard and leave the Weapon as
<v Speaker 2>a Christmas movie. Now at this point, Steven DeSUS it
<v Speaker 2>gets a little bit weird. It gets like he's talking
<v Speaker 2>about the party venue being threatened and die Hard is
<v Speaker 2>by terrorists and White Christmas is by foreclosure. I think
<v Speaker 2>that just makes the point that Diehard's more exciting, not
<v Speaker 2>necessarily that it's a better movie.
<v Speaker 1>And then he mentions that, you know, the German ring leader.
<v Speaker 2>Is Hans Gruber and die Hard and a White Christmas
<v Speaker 2>is Hitler, And so the point goes to White Christmas
<v Speaker 2>on that one, again for weighty value, but not necessarily
<v Speaker 2>for Christmas. But if we're looking at Christmas stuff, really,
<v Speaker 2>then what we have to look at this is the
<v Speaker 2>key christ like sacrifice Leath a Weapon. Mel Gibson is
<v Speaker 2>hanging by his hands after being tortured and refuses to
<v Speaker 2>talk in a sacrifice to save his partner and his daughter.
<v Speaker 2>Obviously at christ Like sacrifice for sure. John McLane, running
<v Speaker 2>barefoot across the glass, has his feet pierced in order
<v Speaker 2>to save his wife and the rest of the people.
<v Speaker 2>Again obvious christ Like sacrifice. What's the sacrifice in White Christmas?
<v Speaker 2>Danny Kay has to upgrade Vera Ellen's train ticket. I'm
<v Speaker 2>going to say without question that both Leath a Weapon
<v Speaker 2>and die Hard beat White Christmas without any hesitation as
<v Speaker 2>Christmas movies.
<v Speaker 1>This is not a fight, This is an execution. I've
<v Speaker 1>got a few other things to throw on the pile,
<v Speaker 1>all right. So die Hard is essentially about a husband
<v Speaker 1>and a wife desperate to get their family back together
<v Speaker 1>for Christmas. Yes, okay, Leath a Weapon, It's all about
<v Speaker 1>a family taking in someone without a family. It's an adoption, yep. Okay.
<v Speaker 1>There are gifts given in Leath a Weapon. In Diehart, Okay,
<v Speaker 1>the gifts given in Diehart, the Rolex McLain gives his
<v Speaker 1>gun two hans Yeah, okay. He then takes it immediately back. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>and no bullet. Oh, no bullets. What do you think
<v Speaker 1>I'm having stupids? Okay, the bad guys give themselves the
<v Speaker 1>biggest Christmas present of the movie, and then McLain gives
<v Speaker 1>himself his own gun at the perfect time, wrapped with
<v Speaker 1>season greetings gift tape.
<v Speaker 2>If that doesn't tell you Christmas, when when the camera
<v Speaker 2>pans back and you see a gun taped to his
<v Speaker 2>back with the tape saying seasons greetings on the tape
<v Speaker 2>and the music is going Jeans, it's fantastic. Yeah, tell
<v Speaker 2>me again, it's not a Christmas movie.
<v Speaker 1>Bruce Leath a weapon. At the end of Leath the weapon,
<v Speaker 1>Rigs gives Roger a gift wrapped hollow tip bullet, actually
<v Speaker 1>gives its Rhiann. She's like, it's a bullet. He's like, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>it's bullet. What he's saying is I'm not suicidal anymore,
<v Speaker 1>thanks to you.
<v Speaker 2>Right.
<v Speaker 1>That's Christmas spirit?
<v Speaker 2>Is it not Christmas? All over the place?
<v Speaker 1>And then you have tons of Christmas reverences like twas
<v Speaker 1>the Night before Christmas?
<v Speaker 2>You know THEO.
<v Speaker 1>Hans even says it's Christmas time, THEO. It's the time
<v Speaker 1>for miracles.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and then of.
<v Speaker 1>Course you have Now I have a machine gun. Ho
<v Speaker 1>ho ho, with the Santa hat on, with the Santa
<v Speaker 1>had on. Absolutely, and then leath the weapon. You've got
<v Speaker 1>Christmas lights, You've got the Christmas tree, You've got the
<v Speaker 1>Christmas fight in the front yard. Oh wait, is that
<v Speaker 1>just my family?
<v Speaker 2>No, everybody has a Chris. Everybody has a front yard
<v Speaker 2>Christmas fight.
<v Speaker 1>Everybody leave the weapon has Christmas tree? Is Caroline presence?
<v Speaker 1>Snow those girls were messing around with snow.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and die Hard it's snowing the barapons.
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely music, as you said, John McLean's wife's name, this
<v Speaker 1>is the key. It's Holly.
<v Speaker 2>It is so brilliant you you totally call that, and
<v Speaker 2>I can't believe I overlooked it. But knowing that, you
<v Speaker 2>have to say, this is not only a Christmas movie,
<v Speaker 2>it is deliberately a Christmas movie.
<v Speaker 1>Main themes of both movies family, love, joy, peace. Okay,
<v Speaker 1>are we ready to move to final judgment?
<v Speaker 2>Let's do it?
<v Speaker 1>Okay? Okay, am I going first?
<v Speaker 2>You're going first? All right?
<v Speaker 1>Final judgment. I love both of these movies, and I
<v Speaker 1>can't stress that. I know I say that every time.
<v Speaker 1>Both of these movies are automatic watches. If I'm passing
<v Speaker 1>by the channel and I see Leath the Weapon, I'm stopping.
<v Speaker 1>If I see die I'm stopping. If I see die Hard,
<v Speaker 1>I'm stopping. I'm throwing my remote behind me. It's I'm
<v Speaker 1>not changing the channel. Okay, it doesn't matter to me.
<v Speaker 1>Lethal Weapon is the best buddy cop and maybe the
<v Speaker 1>best movie of nineteen eighty seven, a movie packed full
<v Speaker 1>of Eighties gems. It's my favorite movie of nineteen eighty seven.
<v Speaker 1>Die Hard is in the conversation for best movie ever
<v Speaker 1>for me. Okay, so I do love wholeheartedly both of
<v Speaker 1>these movies. I love the Lethal Weapon franchise more, but
<v Speaker 1>I love die Hard as a standalone movie the most.
<v Speaker 1>For me, it's die Hard.
<v Speaker 2>I feel like he kind of stole my thunder there.
<v Speaker 1>About time.
<v Speaker 2>I just always wanted to say that. I mean, it's
<v Speaker 2>the end of the season here, we're done. I just
<v Speaker 2>wanted to be able to say it. Okay, Yeah, So
<v Speaker 2>two absolutely brilliant movies, without question. If they're on, I'm
<v Speaker 2>watching no hesitation. So the question is which one's better
<v Speaker 2>of these two amazing movies. Diehard is arguably the perfect
<v Speaker 2>action movie. It has little bits of action intermixed with
<v Speaker 2>comedy and story and struggles, and it is brilliant from
<v Speaker 2>beginning to end. Lethal Weapon is fantastic, but it has
<v Speaker 2>some flaws. The fight scene that you just mentioned, the
<v Speaker 2>holiday fight in the yard, that is ridiculous. That is
<v Speaker 2>just plain ridiculous. The suspense music as we're waiting and
<v Speaker 2>waiting and waiting for the cars to drive up in
<v Speaker 2>the desert is just UnrealEd. I'm like, guys, I know
<v Speaker 2>you spend a lot of money on this shot, but
<v Speaker 2>you could have had this done about a minute and
<v Speaker 2>a half ago. Let's move on. And then the worst
<v Speaker 2>scene in the movie is at the very beginning where
<v Speaker 2>Roger Murtaz in the bathtub and his family comes in,
<v Speaker 2>and he doesn't hide the turtle head floating up out
<v Speaker 2>of the water. He just lets him sing Happy Birthday
<v Speaker 2>and gets a kiss from his daughter, and then sexy
<v Speaker 2>music starts playing. I don't know, That's just there are
<v Speaker 2>some things that just can't be excused in this movie,
<v Speaker 2>and so for that reason, I have to say Diehard
<v Speaker 2>wins as the better of these two movies. Now, you
<v Speaker 2>make an important point, franchise to franchise, Lethal Weapon wins
<v Speaker 2>hands down. Close. Leth the Weapon franchise is great. I
<v Speaker 2>can't wait to see what they do with five Richard
<v Speaker 2>Donners ninety and he's gonna do something amazing, I'm sure
<v Speaker 2>of it. Die Haard was pretty good after the second
<v Speaker 2>one was about the last good one. Really, I mean
<v Speaker 2>some people like the third one. I don't really care
<v Speaker 2>for it. And then he becomes this hero that you
<v Speaker 2>can't be, which was I mean, the whole reason we
<v Speaker 2>loved it was how human he was. And so I
<v Speaker 2>am disappointed with where die Hard wind So there, I
<v Speaker 2>am franchise the franchise. Lethal Weapon wins, but we're not
<v Speaker 2>comparing franchises. We're comparing the movies and movie to movie.
<v Speaker 2>Without question, die Hard wins.
<v Speaker 1>The day, all the leather outside. What the fie best
<v Speaker 1>Christmas movie of all time?
<v Speaker 2>That might be pushing in a little bit.
<v Speaker 1>Let us hear from you, guys, what is your favorite
<v Speaker 1>of these two die Hard versus Leath the Weapon. Tell
<v Speaker 1>us what your favorite.
<v Speaker 2>Christmas movie is of all time? Yeah?
<v Speaker 1>Maybe you're a Christmas vacation guy, or maybe you're an
<v Speaker 1>Elf guy yeah or girl?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, guys were at the end of season one, we've
<v Speaker 2>covered so many movies so many albums, so much stuff.
<v Speaker 2>Write in and tell us what's your favorite. Right in
<v Speaker 2>and tell us what you want to see. We love
<v Speaker 2>hearing these things. We've got guys who have supported us
<v Speaker 2>on Patreon. We have got guys who communicate constantly with
<v Speaker 2>us via email, via Facebook, via Twitter, and we love it.
<v Speaker 2>Keep doing it. Come in, join the conversation. This is
<v Speaker 2>what we do. It war is to make connections with
<v Speaker 2>folks like you, Jason, Merry.
<v Speaker 1>Christmas, the Merry Christmas.
<v Speaker 2>We will see you all next year. No, let us know, let.
<v Speaker 1>Us know, and we finally kiss good night. Oh I
<v Speaker 1>hate going out