Wide Receiver and Tight End Prospect Rankings

00:00:05
Speaker 1: Welcome to NFL Daily, where we perceive all the receptions.

00:00:08
Speaker 2: I'm Greg Rosenthal. I'm here in the Chris Westleying.

00:00:11
Speaker 1: Podcast studio with Patrick CLAYBN, my friend, and coming to us live from the East Coast Virginia. I believe the man Matt Harmon, who created reception perception, who has never seen a reception that he has not perceived with utter clarity, and that's why he's themand to talk wide receivers and tight ends.

00:00:32
Speaker 2: What's up, buddy?

00:00:33
Speaker 3: That was? That was the most humbling and gratifying introduction I think I've ever gone on a show. You know, it's funny, I guess if you think about it, like the whole point of reception, perception is going beyond just the catches and the production. So maybe that was a bad name, you know, because like I should, it should be like route perception or something. Now you've really got no, you got me in a tailspin now about the whole business.

00:00:54
Speaker 2: No, it sounds.

00:00:55
Speaker 1: It sounds great because it rhymes, and I don't think anyone until I came along, really broke it down to its root meeting, which is that you have a more of a depth of perception than other people.

00:01:06
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's putting out out front.

00:01:08
Speaker 5: Hey, we're going to contextualize the thing that you want out of this process, which is a reception. Right, you run the routes and you throw the ball in order to have the reception. And so we're going to perceive the receptions. And the man who birthed the idea from his loins which has been duplicated, I mean imitated, but never duplicated joining us on the show to talk about past catchers, because again, you want the reception, that's what you want.

00:01:31
Speaker 1: It's true we have tight ends today as well, and there is a little part of me that feels guilty when we just have matt On to talk receivers. It's like, oh, it's it's draft season. Let's go, let's go break out Harmon out of the closet to like, let's move monkey and just talk receivers and tight ends.

00:01:50
Speaker 2: That's not all you're good for.

00:01:51
Speaker 1: You. You're a husband, you're a great analyst of fantasy football that used to do you know, fantasy with Patrick here. I believe you two guys probably attended each other's wedding. So I'm feeling like I'm not I'm not as close, but we did do a podcast back in the day, Backyard Banter. I mean, you're just more than just reception. Perception and receivers, but that is kind of your specialty. Harmon, just accept it.

00:02:14
Speaker 3: I mean, it would have been really weird if you brought me on here. It's like, all right, let's talk kickers, you know, like, let let's talk whatever. It would be a normal show. You're a great analyst. Well I appreciate that. And yeah, I can confirm I was at Patrick Claibon's wedding at mine, So yeah, boom, there we go. We can officially put that confirmation out there.

00:02:32
Speaker 2: But how is that chemistry going to show up in this show though?

00:02:37
Speaker 4: Like?

00:02:37
Speaker 1: Will it? Will people be able to tell the difference that you guys are really that tight?

00:02:42
Speaker 3: No, I keep it. I keep it professional with everybody on air obviously off air, as soon as as soon as we click out of here, Like I'm going to be very friendly with Claybon and very antagonistic to you Greg, But that is just the that's just professionalism really here. But I want to say here on the tight end part of it, just off the top, I don't chart tight ends, you know, for recession perceptions. But that's the best part of this is that we'll do my very you know, buttoned up like all right, I've charted every route of these guys for the wide receivers, and then with tight ends, we're just going to kind of shoot from the hips. So it'll be funward.

00:03:15
Speaker 1: That's what we're doing from with everyone, and let's let's just get into it.

00:03:18
Speaker 2: Let's let's talk receivers.

00:03:20
Speaker 1: And I don't know, like your rankings, Harmon, And I know Patrick's got some hot takes about these receivers.

00:03:26
Speaker 2: I don't know if he has a ranking.

00:03:28
Speaker 1: He's got some hot takes, and I've got some of my own as well, So I don't know if you have a pure rankings after going through them all, but who's kind of in your top and break it down by tiers.

00:03:39
Speaker 4: In the top?

00:03:41
Speaker 3: Okay, so yeah, I do have rankings. They are on Reception Perception dot Com, the stacked rankings from multiple classes, so you can kind of compare twenty twenty five to twenty four to twenty three, et cetera, et cetera. Number one tier of his own is Travis Hunter. To me, if we're just viewing him as a wide receiver, I mean, I really I think it's under sold just what an incredible pure football player he is. Like, I think he should clearly be the number one prospect in this class. And it just like we use generational all the time, and usually it's bad analysis. Usually a player is not generational. This guy actually is a once in a lifetime football player. So there's that part of it, just straight up. But if we're just viewing him as a wide receiver, he's one of my favorite receivers I've ever evaluated because he just checks every single box ninety seven percentile success rate versone, ninety seven percentile success rate versus press. I realized he's obviously playing, you know, maybe some lighter competition in the Big twelve, but he's dominating. He's obliterating that competition. He also has rare ball skills, rare catching ability. He's excellent and contested catch situations. He rarely goes down on first contact. My comparison for him both as a mover off the line of scrimmage just an overall receiver is like prime Odell Beckham. So to me, like he is, he's up there and perhaps even ahead of some of the guys that went in the top ten of last year's draft class. So he's the only one that I think is like a true tier one. You could take this guy in the top ten of any draft. He's already made starter. He could turn into a superstar. He's the only guy like that in this class.

00:05:08
Speaker 5: To me, I think the thing that runs people off because like, if you listen like Steve Smith's thoughts on Travis Hunters a wide receiver, there's the rawness and I understand the Odell comp but then there's an aspect of route running where I would like to equate it to you have your standard golf swing, and then you have your non standard golf swings. But ultimately what matters is is where the ball winds up. And if you're going for another across sport camp, if you're going form basketball shooting, you look at Klay Thompson shoot the basketball and you're like, oh, that guy is a much better shooter than this Steph Curry character. But Steph has done it more often and better than anybody who's ever touched the basketball, all right, And so like I understand if you're looking at Travis Hunter run routes, and then you say, look at Odell and it's like, well, there's a different look. There's plenty of different ways to go about things, but you can't dispute the fact that he is still getting open.

00:06:04
Speaker 1: Well, he's also on the field for one hundred and ten snaps and in the defensive meeting rooms.

00:06:09
Speaker 2: Like the thing that stuck out to me. We're not going to spend too much time.

00:06:12
Speaker 1: I'm just because you're a victim of the circumstance of the NFL daily week harm and I feel like it's been a big Travis under week. We definitely talked about him, and I'm with you. I would absolutely take him over Harrison and Neighbors as prospects.

00:06:26
Speaker 2: Just that receiver.

00:06:28
Speaker 1: To me, he is right there with like the Jamar Chases and the best wide receiver prospects that that we've that we've seen. And part of it is just like the game slows down for him at such an incredible level that you can see the football intelligence and so if you add the intelligence and then the ridiculously athletic you know skills that that he has, just his ball skills and his reach and everything is just absolutely next level. And then you you add in like one hundred and twenty percent of the dog in him that he has, Like what more do you want he?

00:07:02
Speaker 3: To me?

00:07:02
Speaker 1: Would be the number one overall player just as a wide receiver and as a quarterback. But I'm more interested now because I haven't we haven't dove as deeply into the rest of the class. Let's say he's in a tier of his own. There is a lot of disagreement. I think about how to stack the next three guys potentially, or depending on how you feel, the next five to six, and then on and on, because it feels like it's a deep class where there's a lot of guys who are going to play important roles, but different views on what types of players that these guys are, so a little bit agnostic. Having broken down all the film, where do you go after Hunter?

00:07:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there's two guys that stand out from the next chunk to me that I think there's a gap between them and then everybody else where. I do agree with you that everybody else is you know, like late round one early round two type are a very very good day two player. The two guys that stick out to me are Tetro McMillan at Arizona and then Amecha Buka at Ohio State. And the reason I like Buka more than some of these other places. He's just so reliable. And I'm a sucker for like this type of wide receiver because they tend to you know, like, Okay, he's just a number two. He's more like a power slot receiver. How much upside is there with that? Nobody complains about the upside of I'm on Ross Saint Brown when he pushes to like lead the NFL in receptions every single year and he is cut from the same cloth, is like Buka to me, great zone beater, but I think he's good again enough against man coverage in reception perception to play outside awesome hands. Again, he's just so reliable. So he is the guy that I would take in like the middle of the first round. And yeah, okay, he's my number two receiver, big, big whoop. You're getting a huge value on that from what number two receivers quote unquote are play are paid in the NFL right now. So he's he's my three, and McMillan I have a little bit ahead of him, just because you know, the size profile is really good. He's just a like good strong X receiver prospect, not perfect, which is why he's not quite in that Tier one level. To me, there are some game but you know, again, somebody i'd be really comfortable picking in the first round.

00:09:04
Speaker 1: Okay, so those two guys are seventeen and eighteen on Daniel Deremia's big board, behind Matthew Golden. By the way, who will get to I'm sure soon's let's start with like Buka here, because he's someone I've gotten back and forth with when I watched him, and then when I talk to people and I'm like, for instance, our friend Mina Kimes thinks he's diet Jackson Smith and Jigba, and other people think he's better than a Jackson Smith and Jigba, and he's in that category. And the more I watch, I kind of settled on that he's probably a little below that for me, And it's it's what you want to value if you're like Harmon and I think more than any player in this class, he feels like a very safe single or double. I kind of came down on that maybe he's not quite special enough that if I had to like rank him versus other guys in the past like Smith and Jigba, I actually would put him a little bit below. But he was a professional in college. He's going to be a in the pros. He's gonna be a good player. I think the ceiling's a little lower, but that's fine because of what Matt Harmon said. Now, is he gonna be a number two like DeVonta Smith is number two? I don't necessarily think think that. No, I don't think he's that type of number two. But he's gonna play in the NFL for a long time, and in this draft where you don't know anything after the top four or five, like that has a lot of value.

00:10:20
Speaker 5: Yeah, if we're if the if the goal right is DeVante Smith, then that that's gonna be tough to find right in the draft in general, other than the other than Travis Hunter. With Abuca, I I would like to see the explosion if I'm going to have him ahead of ahead of Golden Right or even like Higgins, We'll get to where I just need to see the elite traits. I think some of the things that and I'm not saying this is building Matt up, but it's building other people up. With a BUCA is the uniform, and there's a little Ohio state, and there's the idea that oh this is you're getting scary Terry, you're getting pre transferred JMO, you're getting Olave.

00:10:55
Speaker 4: I just I don't see any of those.

00:10:58
Speaker 5: No, I agree like that that ability to explode away and north of two hundred. I would have liked to see just a few more broken tackles and making more plays in space. But I understand there is an absolute value of knowing where somebody is going to be and when they're going to get there, and that's what makes him a safe pick. But I'm if I'm trying to hit home runs in this raft, which is I think is what you should try to do.

00:11:19
Speaker 1: Doubles are fine doubles in this class. Like if he was a running back, he would be David Montgomery to me, like, just like those were a good get. That's it's really good and it's why I have him fourth. I do have him behind behind Gold and T Macmac, by the way, says he wants to be called T mac. So that's that's what he yeah as his first name, essentially, So I will do no.

00:11:40
Speaker 5: And I do wonder with the age right at twenty two, he probably never saw Tracy McGrady play basketball.

00:11:46
Speaker 1: Ever, No, you're right, that's fair, so he can take it. It's fine, it's been it's been a generation. Abuka will be like, you know what, he's really good at, Matt and I'm this is probably where he banks really well in reception perception.

00:12:00
Speaker 2: He's very good at catching the football.

00:12:02
Speaker 1: You know how when that the quarterback throws it to him, it's like this kind of crazy shape and the ball comes at different speeds and they come in different directions.

00:12:11
Speaker 2: A lot of times with Egbuga it's over the shoulder.

00:12:13
Speaker 1: He's good at putting his hands up and then he catches it like that's I feel.

00:12:18
Speaker 3: Like it's pretty important thing.

00:12:20
Speaker 1: I feel like he gets underrated though wide receiver like he is. Actually, all these guys at the top are have good hands. I would say none of them, they're all plus, But to me, he's like extra plus. So is do you want to fight back against anything that Patrick said there?

00:12:35
Speaker 3: I think it really is like what you value. And this is kind of the hard part about like ranking, especially the wide receiver psition. It's hard for any draft prospect in general, and just an entire class worth when you're not looking at it for a specific team or a specific system. Because like I love i'm on Rossaint Brown, the player that I compare Agbuka to, but he probably wouldn't be that guy on every single team, right Like, and this is the tough part with this ar type of receiver is that you get them in the right offense and you can flow the entire thing through them. But then at the same time, like you look at these guys who are primary power slot players, and you know, sometimes because of the size or build or whatever, they might get played more outside in a certain system and it's not quite the same statistical results. So I just love a guy that I think is B plus B plus, B plus maybe A minus, is a zone beater across the board, and I think I can drop him into pretty much any offense and he's going to give me a nice floor of a player. But I do think there are certain systems and certain offenses around the league where he'd actually be one of the most productive wideouts in the league. Just on the JSN comparison, just because I want to come back to that, I like JSN a touch more as a prospect. I've basically put it that I think JSN was a flashier player because he was a better man coverage beater than Agbuca is. But I think Buka is probably a superior like dirty work guy and like more of a rugged receiver.

00:13:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they gave him the boss so much because Buca that is like in the backfield, he played running back, full back like he has a lot of like and he'd always get what's blocked. And that's why I thought about Montgomery like he's a seven to eight yard type of guy. I don't know if he has the downfield pop of Saint Brown or JSN. In the end, I didn't evaluate Saint Brown like coming out of college, so it's hard to compare him to them. But in terms of a pro I think that the floor's you know, maybe higher than these other guys. But but McMillan, I kind of came into it, and I hate having some you know, thoughts ahead of time of what you hear, and maybe it's a little bit of a prejudice. And I expected to not like him as much as I did for whatever reason, and I loved him. And I think if it wasn't for all the plays that he doesn't if he's the number one guy. I think in maybe the last couple of classes where if you only watched his targets, he would be ranked higher than if you didn't watch the rest of his snaps. And that's why I get why DJ's got him number eighteen overall. That's why I get that he's not the just the home run number two behind Hunter, because I think if it was just his targets, he's probably the home run number two.

00:15:05
Speaker 2: I really like golden two, and we'll get to him.

00:15:08
Speaker 1: But I thought, like the other the other snaps like weren't as good, Like he's a better guy. I'dn't actually tell me because I'm just flying off the hip. Did you great him better versus zone than man? Was there a big difference there?

00:15:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like it's actually pretty close. Percentile wise, he's a fifty ninth percentile man coverage beater, he's a sixtieth percentile zone beater. So it is like very neck and neck, but he's actually the in terms of success rate versus man, press and zone. Relatively, he's best against press coverage, which I actually kind of did, like, I'd almost completely disagree with what you said about him being like I like more watching him when he doesn't get the ball, because I think when he gets the ball if you're just watching his targets, you kind of bucket him into this like big ball winning, lack of separation receiver because he's in so many contested situations. But I think the best part of his game and the reasons that I think he's, you know, like, to me the number two if we're putting out Travis Hunter, he's the number one receiver in this class is because he's so good on these like inbreaking routes, particularly like posts and digs and stuff like that. So I kind of settled on a Courtland Sutton comparison for him, like somebody that is probably like an ideal high end too, but you can get away with him being your number one receiver. That's generally what I see when I look at t Mac. But it's a good prospect profile overall. Not quite like a Tier one player to me, but there's a lot of things to like about him. He sneaks up on you after the catch, so really it is like the plays where the ball doesn't go his way and you see him as but.

00:16:38
Speaker 1: He doesn't try that hard. That's my number one thing. I think the effort was bad. Hear you on that, well, I think that's huge and that kind of goes along and you never know at this time of year what's true or what's not with that kind of criticism. But it reminded me a lot of Ady Mitchell from a year ago, who to me had big red flags on his tape that he just didn't try that hard one on a lot of plays, and that felt like, well, McMillan. McMillan seems so upset all the time that he wasn't getting the ball enough. He certainly wasn't interested like run blocking or when he wasn't the primary guy. And I'm thinking, like, this is the most productive receiver in the last few years, just about like he came in averaging eighteen yards per catch. He had thirteen hundred yards both years. He's awesome. I really think it's gonna work out for the most part. But I would want to get to the bottom of that that that to me, there were just a lot of There were a lot of routes where it's just like, man, I'm not like where there was a couple where he just literally stood there.

00:17:33
Speaker 3: Well, I was like, come on, yeah, he probably should better than he is, but he's still no.

00:17:38
Speaker 1: No like, but he was the primary guy I think like when he got the ball, he was freaking incredible.

00:17:43
Speaker 5: I think to contextualize some of those things, right, Okay, so October fifth loss, October twelve he lost, October nineteen loss, October twenty six loss, November second loss.

00:17:55
Speaker 2: Right, some of these are by like twenty seven point.

00:17:57
Speaker 5: Yeah, they're getting run out of the stadium routinely. He's the leading receiver. There's a guy we'll talk about who had an even bigger number, but he had like forty four percent of their passing yards were yards that were thrown to Temac and so like. And I understand, but the amount of volume placed on him in the passing game, especially at a big height and weight, I could see where that could cause you to, yeah, kind of frazzle in many situations where if you're not the one on a route, like why am I selling out at six four?

00:18:32
Speaker 2: Well, because you might get to number two on the route.

00:18:35
Speaker 5: And I think, right, if you go back and watch the Colorado game, a lot of folks are like, hey, it's the Colorado game. Show that if he plays some talent in the defensive backfield, you're not going to get the production. I saw him turn a defender around and get six yards of separation and a ball hit the water cooler after it hit his hands. And then I saw another deep pass that would have been a spot foul on pass interference that in college football just got fifteen yard and so you're taking away the impact there where I just saw this dude have nothing more than impact, yes, in games.

00:19:06
Speaker 1: That's why I would bet on him in the end, Like, I just find him fascinating. I think he'd go in so many directs I've heard Michael Pittman as a comparison. And then that's where like, if he doesn't have kind of the next level explosion or something, you've got to be a try hard player. You're gonna need to block with a type of inside player that he's going to be like.

00:19:23
Speaker 2: And so that's you want him to be that guy.

00:19:26
Speaker 1: But just for a little background for people who aren't familiar from Arizona, like, like I said, thirteen one hundred plus yards fourteen hundred plus yards. He came into this season almost knowing he was going to be a high pick and that that's a tricky spot to be.

00:19:38
Speaker 2: And you do wonder.

00:19:39
Speaker 1: Between him and Will Johnson, two guys who are kind of expected to be top five picks coming into it.

00:19:44
Speaker 2: It's their teams are much better.

00:19:46
Speaker 1: Maybe that does explain a little bit of whether it's effort or just any In the end, he got it done.

00:19:52
Speaker 2: I actually think he's a.

00:19:54
Speaker 1: Much better guy after the catch than Courtland Sutton, for instance, likes he's a good yeat guy, like he really dunk on guys.

00:20:00
Speaker 2: He can do it all. I think he has a great natural feel like that.

00:20:03
Speaker 1: That's where I I don't know that I have so many comps just flying around, But like George Pickens, like he's got a he's got not as a player, but just as a feel for the position.

00:20:12
Speaker 2: I think he's got that.

00:20:13
Speaker 1: He he's football smart, is I guess how I would put it.

00:20:17
Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:20:17
Speaker 3: I like to do comps in like kind of archetypes and families of receivers, and I think he belongs to the family of receiver. That's like Michael Thomas, Drake, London Gap, you know, Michael Pittman, Cortland Sutton, like these bigger guys who are better separators than you think. But I think he falls closer to like the Sutton Pittman zone. But there's no question that like if he fully dials in. I think he could get a little bit closer to Drake Lenn, but I have a very high opinion of Drake len and that's just where well.

00:20:44
Speaker 1: And he was making a lot of plays like down the field, and like I said, was not like he would go down at first contact. Basically, it's not like he's breaking tackles. But he's a smooth athlete that made a lot of great, great plays after the catch.

00:20:57
Speaker 2: So I find him fascinating.

00:20:59
Speaker 1: I have him, I have him right there with gold and I haven't really made a decision. So we'll talk about Golden after the break. We'll talk about the rest of a very fascinating wide receiver class right after this.

00:21:17
Speaker 2: Back on the NFL Daily, a man.

00:21:21
Speaker 1: With the biggest water bottle I've ever seen, Matt Harmon, it's right next to you.

00:21:27
Speaker 2: Aways will just show it off.

00:21:28
Speaker 1: It just feels a little show Offye, it's a little bit.

00:21:30
Speaker 3: I mean, you shouldn't am better than you because I'm more hydrated than you. That is, that is for sure.

00:21:36
Speaker 5: Your water bottle should increase with your mass, and Matt has put on so much mass.

00:21:40
Speaker 2: It's true, very few That's what I mean.

00:21:42
Speaker 4: He's gonna be at the two gallon water bottle very soon.

00:21:44
Speaker 1: It's true, is Matt is a year away from I guess you're not going to be six four like Tep McMillan, but he's going.

00:21:53
Speaker 5: To be a draft site. The twenty seven NFL Draft will be at matt Harmon.

00:21:58
Speaker 3: The goal is to next year at the combine, you know, provided that they let me go back, is to like slip into just such one of the jumpsuits. Well, I definitely get into the bench, slip into one of the jumpsuits and see if I can get like some random beat writer to start asking me questions.

00:22:14
Speaker 1: A lot of us, a lot of us. Iron's body lately too much. Let's talk about your next tier. So, Matthew Golden, who you mentioned Steve Smith for instance, it's his number one wide receiver. Jeremiah really has the top three basically the same sixteen seventeen eighteen overall on his board, but he does have Golden first. Some people I trust we had we had on Ali Connelly earlier this week. He had Golden I believe as his kind of cleared number two along with Team Maac. Actually not clear, but could kind of those two grouped together as a strong two behind behind Hunter. So where do you have Golden and give me kind of this tier what you have lined up.

00:22:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, Golden's my next guy after a BUKA. I really like Matthew Golden. And what's the rest of the team.

00:23:02
Speaker 1: First, before we get into Golden, I want to hear Rasil by himself.

00:23:06
Speaker 3: Now, Luther Burden and Jalen Knowle actually out of Iowa State. This is kind of like the guys that I think are late first rounders, early second rounder types. I think Golden's really good player. He comes out excellent in terms of success rate versus ozone coverage. I don't think I think his I think his route running like in the short area is not ideal, but he's an excellent like once he builds up speed, he and to be honest with you, I never saw him as like a four sub four three player, but he's obviously fast. He brings you verticality. It's really he's more like just when he snaps off routes again, particularly inbreakers, he just gets so so significantly open, particularly against like off. Yeah, it really pops, and he to me would fit so well in a positioning that like Jordan Addison found himself in which is he's across from a great number one, and he can be a very very good number two. It gives you maybe not consistent production, but like chunk plays and explosives on the field, and probably from like that offensive family tree as well. So I really like Golden. I think he does. He's got good hands in contested situations. It's actually one of these guys that the harder and more difficult to catch the higher the catch trait is. And then if it's just some of the more routine stuff underneath, he will occasionally put too many balls on the ground. So to me, I just like I think there's more upside with some of the other guys. I think Golden looks like just more of like a like a good solid number two receiver in the NFL who's probably going to be more tactically valuable to a team because he opens up space for guys underneath. Then he will be like productive in a top receiver role when you ran all the numbers. So people who aren't familiar, you should check out Matt Harmon on all.

00:24:44
Speaker 1: The podcasts he does. He does some football three zero one with Nate Tice. He's got his own podcast with his fantasy podcast at Yahoo. But he also does Reception Perception. That's his site. That's the supplementary in supplementary income that he makes, which is all it's important in the game. You got your b big job, but then he's got a little side job. And so if you are into football, I highly recommend checking that out subscribing. When you broke it all down and this is proprietary stuff here, when you broke it out down with Golden, I'm curious if anything stuck out, just like in terms of how he wins or whether he was just kind of consistent across the board.

00:25:20
Speaker 3: No, I think if you look at like his route tree, like the route success by route chart, it really is the stuff down the field, nines, posts, corners, digs outs. But where I think, and this is just what I get hung up on, is that he's kind of average to below average on curls and slants and stuff like that where he's going to just like rack up consistent production. I think that's the part where I didn't really see like a clear cut Round one player and I saw more of a very good complimentary guy. Again, if he lands in a spot like like once the draft happens he lands in a spot like Dallas where he is across from a great number one wide receiver. Like, then I think that's a really good situation for him. But where I wouldn't want him to go is somewhere where he has to then step into that number one wide receiver role because I think he's again more tactically valuable and like as a compliment than he is is a true number one.

00:26:09
Speaker 4: Yeah, it did.

00:26:10
Speaker 5: The landing spot always is going to matter for for all of these guys. But I think when you have elite traits, like his explosiveness is elite, and you look at the tape and it shows up there. So, like Matt mentioned in the end Breakers, I think there were a lot of passing yards that Quinn yours might have left on the table.

00:26:29
Speaker 4: Yes, having golden he.

00:26:32
Speaker 1: Let him almost show off the boss goills because it was I had a lot of great catches because they were on bad throat.

00:26:38
Speaker 3: But the Queen's been doing that for a few prospects.

00:26:42
Speaker 5: He's had some guys in some situations where like we might have underrated, say if you're worthy because of because of the way things kind of turned out there. And so like I know they had him returning kicks. I didn't necessarily see the broken tackles as a as a kicker, because you get this idea that this is a kick return that you get on the ball in space it's going to make.

00:27:02
Speaker 4: There wasn't a.

00:27:03
Speaker 5: Lot of that, but the explosion leapt off the screen in a capacity to me that I can't push him down past other guys who don't have Yeah.

00:27:10
Speaker 2: To me, he's so smooth.

00:27:11
Speaker 1: I went back and forth between him and McMillan in the end, but to me, I would have them kind of clearly ahead. Cause to me, he's not a similar player to Buca. But to me he has a very high floor. And maybe I'm wrong about that. He came on and had at a big year, but he seems very good at a lot of things. Just a solid, as you're saying, wide receiver too. But I do think there's a little potential for him to be closer to a DeVonta Smith, not that he's exactly the same player, but in the same way that when people were saying, wow, the size, like you knows, not ideal sized, I don't care.

00:27:43
Speaker 2: The way he played.

00:27:44
Speaker 1: He plays very strong for his size, so I'm not worried about his size. He pushed guys off, like off press coverage, like he almost he brought it on and I thought he succeeded a lot when he did it. And so that to me was like, Hm, is there even more here where he can be like a really one of the best second receivers in the league or a top twenty five receiver. You mentioned McLaurin, and I think it was was it John Ledyard who made that comparison, And I can kind of see that, like in a perfect world, maybe he wins a little bit like McLaurin. And obviously you know mclaurin's like all pro level, that's next level, but you can kind of see how McLaren fell in the draft. I kind of see that, and so I like him a lot. I think it's a really good wide receiver class. To me, there's a pretty big drop off after those four, but not for you. You have Burden and you have Noel in this class. So kind of go through your process in what you think about those two guys.

00:28:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, with Burden, he's a tough one man because I think if you grade to the Flashes, I think he looks like he could be the best receiver in this class. The problem is that it's not all flashes like I do think he's a bit of a similar to T Mac, where I think T Mac's a bit of a misunderstood player. Is this just like big non separation ball winner. I think Luther Burden is a little bit too miscast because of how he was used as like a Mickey Mouse pop gun receiver, like it just kind of a design Touches gadget player. There's actually, to me a lot more to his game potentially as a as a man coverage beater. Again, it is flashes because he faced more zone coverage than any receiver I've charted this year, and only one other prospect in like the entire prospect database I have, which is about one hundred and fifty players now has faced more zone coverage than him, and it's just because of that role that he's playing in. So again it's flashes, but still sixty eighth percentile success rate versus man coverage right over seventy percent, which is an encouraging number. It's primarily on these like outbreaking routes where he was really really good, I mean ninety point nine percent success right on out routes really really encouraging number for him. The problem is he's facing all that zone coverage and he's like an average zone beater. He just gets caught up. Sometimes he runs himself into zone coverage. He doesn't have the best feel for it. So I think there's, honestly the best way to say it is how good is Luther Burden going to be? Like that's up to Luther Burden, because he's another guy that came into this year with like a lot of hype as just that he's going to be a top ten pick. He's the best receiver in this class. And you know, people kind of think he mailed in this season. And I think normally I wouldn't say something like normally I wouldn't say something like that, but I think it shows up at times that he's just not fully engaged with what's going on.

00:30:24
Speaker 2: I think that's true.

00:30:25
Speaker 1: But I so I went back and someone was like, you got to watch his his junior tape or something tape and stuff. That's but I thought it was there too, like he maybe popped a little more, but the effort was kind of came and went a little bit with those two earlier.

00:30:42
Speaker 2: He is a very exciting player.

00:30:44
Speaker 1: But I struggle and maybe you're going to push back here, Patrick with like just how does he fit into a team? I think that is sometimes lost in the draft knicks, the industrial complex. If there's one thing that's probably missing the most that I would say is a knowledge of like how teams work and what's working in the league and how he's gonna fit. And Burden feels like, man, you better have a plan for him, And I'm not totally sure. So I hear you that it could be really exciting, but it could be To me, he looks like for most teams like a fourth receiver that you're like, how do we use this guy?

00:31:18
Speaker 4: Yeah, and there's that danger of the gadget guy right right that gets misused.

00:31:23
Speaker 5: And I think the difficulty in what needs to be done is you need to evaluate what he can do, because I'm not sure Missouri was really featuring that, especially in twenty twenty four. They brought on Kirby Moore as the new offensive coordinator after the twenty twenty three season, and they went from the twenty ninth ranked offense in college football to fifty five. Right, the points per game dropped by seven and you just watch and you're like, okay, like show me what you can do, Luther, and the offense is.

00:31:53
Speaker 4: Keeping you from seeing that. Like I really don't think just in.

00:31:57
Speaker 5: Terms of evaluating what the offense him an opportunity to do, like because it was the same quarterback and you're just wondering, like the crispness of if you're gonna ding Luthor on the Christmas of the routes and the way he proceeds.

00:32:10
Speaker 4: Yeah, I kind of want to see the offense operating that community.

00:32:15
Speaker 1: Tyler Warren, who will get to it was just kind of like, hey, run over there, you know, just like it's kind of run over there and we'll figure it out.

00:32:22
Speaker 5: I don't know, but one thing, right, he punishes bad tackling. If you were not in the proper position, Luther is going to make you play. And if like you're a Nick Immunori fan that South Carolina game when they were when when there was one on one, Nick got him on the ground. But then to this to the same extent, when you finish that game, Luther runs a slot fade with a minute and thirty seconds to go and wins the game. Right, So you saw like his ability to separate and to make plays the catch point, but you need to have Maybe if the.

00:32:54
Speaker 4: Tackling is not yeah, up to snuff, he's going to make you pay.

00:32:58
Speaker 5: But if guys are out there it can move and have the physical capacity. He's not breaking tackles to the extent that you'd want, Like, Okay, this is our this is our Deebo.

00:33:06
Speaker 4: Samuel, which like nobody should do that anymore. Stop doing that. But like if you think.

00:33:11
Speaker 1: But he is that he is that guy in this class if those guys out more lately, maybe that's.

00:33:15
Speaker 3: What he's But he's so much better against man covers than a guy like Deebo Samuel. That's what That's where I get. I come down with him that I think there is more to his game. There's room to grow there. And like I mean, like he could use him like Rashi Rice is used with the Kansas City Chiefs. So if you don't like Luther Burton's usage, I better not hear he's saying, like Rashie Rice is one of the best young receivers.

00:33:34
Speaker 2: In the league.

00:33:35
Speaker 3: Like I just I think you can use him in that way and you can develop more from that.

00:33:39
Speaker 1: See maybe it's maybe it's just the time in like the NFL evolution that we're doing this show that I'm just like less into these guys now than I would have been. Like to me if he was going to be a Chiefs receiver, he feels more like Canarius Tony.

00:33:52
Speaker 2: But I'm I want to go back and watch guy. I don't feel like I watched enough.

00:33:55
Speaker 1: Of all these guys, and sometimes it's the games that that you catch them, and I did try to go back to to the older ones. I mean, he's a he's a really exciting player. I think he's one where fit is gonna matter even more than most. I think that's true of Noel though as well. So it's interesting that you put him on your list this high.

00:34:12
Speaker 2: Jalen Noel.

00:34:13
Speaker 1: So he's five ten, one ninety four, very interesting profile, fast forty, but was more of like a vertical slot guy. And so that's the type of role I think he would have in the NFL. The trick is, to me, kind of going back to what I said with Burden two, is like how many teams know how to use that? How many of those guys really are there? You kind of need to do a lot of things. Do you think he can.

00:34:36
Speaker 2: Do a lot of things Jalen Noel, Oh.

00:34:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, like this is my type of receipt. Okay, From a reception perception standpoint, he's very similar to like Lad McConkey last year from a man coverage standpoint. From like more of a full profile standpoint, I actually think he compares pretty well to Josh Downs, who, like I mean, Josh Downs would be a much more productive player if he wasn't playing in that Colts offense because I think he can give you a lot of that like downfield stuff. You saw that with Drake May at UNC. So yeah, Noel, I agree with you. More of like a vertical slot receiver, which that's what I want out of my slot, Like I don't want them to just be that pop gun slot receiver. Kristen Kirk is a comp here's Christian Kirkson. Like again, in that same I think family of players as well. And I mean I think Kirk he got a lot of you know, grief for the contract that he signed, but he was a really useful player for Jacksonville for a while. So I just this is the type of player that I think gets pushed down because they don't fit like traditional positional you know, size and kind of deployment. But you get them in an NFL receiver room, and whether they're the two or the three or whatever, they're just a really really useful player.

00:35:43
Speaker 1: You got to find the right the right fit. He he does feel unless he but you're saying he can do more.

00:35:48
Speaker 2: And I like that. I want to go back and watch a little Jalen Noel more.

00:35:52
Speaker 5: My question with Noel is why Noel before Higgins?

00:35:57
Speaker 2: Okay?

00:35:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, and and that can be a transition to your next group, which I assume Jaden Higgins his teammate. They complimented each other very well, I thought at Iowa State, but you have Higgins lower, give me your next tier and then and then yeah, let us know why why Lower?

00:36:11
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're like now in the squarely day two zone, which I'm not like, Higgins is not next on my list here. I've got guys like Jack Besh, Kyle Williams, Trey Harris. Uh So you hate I don't. I mean, I don't hate Jaden Higgins, but like I am a little confused why everybody's a lot higher on Jaden Higgins than some of these other guys, because like he just doesn't separate enough to me, Like like that, that's that's the problem here, especially against like pressman coverage. So to me, I don't think he profiles as an NFL X receiver like teams are talking about, like Greg where where the league is going, Like teams are moving away from this non separation, you know, big X receiver like what people think McMillan is. I think Higgins actually is now that's not useless in the NFL. And by the way, like I felt very similar a lot of the parts of Jaden higgins rofile in terms of him being like a below average press man coverage success rate player, very similar to like Keon Coleman last year. I did this whole breakdown on YouTube about it, where like these guys that are sub thirty fifth percentile and press and man coverage and reception perception, all the prospects that were that way that have gone on to be successes in the NFL. They've transitioned from outside receivers to big slot receivers in the NFL. Jujus ms Schuster I mentioned Rashid Rice. I'm on Rossaint Brown was this guy, So like there's a path for Higgins, but he is very much one of these guys like tell me what team he's playing for, Like, tell me how this coaching staff is using him, because I think if he has used the right way, then I think, like, okay, he could be in that's in that like archetype of player where he's this jumbo slot receiver who's really good against zone coverage, who catches everything not he's got like an alligator arm thing, and like kind of that ninety degree angle and contested situations like let's use that whole wingspan, Let's stretch those.

00:37:57
Speaker 2: Short though I feel like they're no.

00:38:00
Speaker 1: The one with a massive wingspan is the one that the arms are short, which is uh, which is a tough one. I liked him less the more I watched him. I liked him a lot right away, and then he felt like the same experience. He felt like it was kind of inconsistent, which is which you don't want because I don't. And this is where I probably disagree on Burden to consensus was I didn't think his his skills Higgins, that is, we're special enough to kind of make up for it. And I actually kind of felt that with Burden too. I thought to be that type of player, you have to really snap, you have to be really special and I didn't. I didn't quite get there for him. So I'm kind of with you on Higgins that I think he's an NFL player, but I don't think in the end I came like as high on him.

00:38:46
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's the it's tough again. The traits right too.

00:38:51
Speaker 5: I can't run away from those when those are those are something when you've got the the wingspan right. And I understand and Matt, that's absolutely right about the criticism of up at the cap, at the catch point, where that's a place where if you're trying to separate him and McMillan like that, there's a notable difference there. But just to have that explosive in this and if you want to like watch that that Houston game, I saw him making guys miss at that at that height and weight.

00:39:20
Speaker 2: Where it's exciting.

00:39:21
Speaker 5: It gets me, It gets me excited and thinks, well, the ceiling is there, and again you're trying to hit these home runs and they there were multiple teams that literally had no answer for him.

00:39:30
Speaker 2: That's fair.

00:39:31
Speaker 1: That's why I think it was all like some games were good and then some games just didn't seem like he had a great feel that's that's probably what I value the most. I mean, it's all about how you were raised as a as a as a fan or a wanna be draftnick. I go back to, like I always like like the Kiri Colbert and Mark Clayton types, the real receivers, receivers that maybe kind of like in a book or golden who you feel like you know what you're getting and they really can run the routes and they can snap off and they can do everything. But my other type, and there is one in this class, and we already talked about him on my last show, so I'm not going to repeat myself, but my guy in this class to try to hit a home run is definitely Kyle Williams. And to me, if you told me he's your third or fourth receiver in this class, I get it. Like I would be fine taking him personally in the first round because I see it all.

00:40:19
Speaker 2: I love it.

00:40:20
Speaker 1: I love these some Kyle Williams. Why why don't you love him quite as much as me? Matt Harmon, I mean, I don't know.

00:40:26
Speaker 3: He's pretty highly ranked for me, and again I think he's a guy that is I would put him in a tier ahead of even Jayden Higgins. I mean he's kind of like the middle, like a sort of a no man's land between, Like you're not quite like a round one guy, but you're not like a clear.

00:40:40
Speaker 2: Why okay, why is any around one guy?

00:40:42
Speaker 1: Because he is a guy I kept watching and being like, Yeah, what am I missing? Because he's got he's got so many dogs in him, All of the dogs are in him.

00:40:54
Speaker 3: He's can I can I be vulnerable here? In terms of why is he not a round one guy? Part of this is because I think he's the type of receiver I've fallen for, like way too hard in the past, where he's like a smaller separator who does win at all three levels, but because of the size in the frame, like how many quarterbacks really want to take that throw? Like maybe there's a little bit of like Elijah Moore scarring here, honestly, because I think he's of a say Andy Isabella, No, he's I don't know about it. Don't don't put me into Andy Isabella fan club here, but no, I think I think with Kyle Williams, he does come from a lower level. That's part of it too, you know, he's not quite like these guys that have only lined up on one side of the field at one outside receiver position, like seventy plus percent of their snaps in reception perception. It's actually like a long list of red flags there. He's not quite in that bucket, so he does miss that for me, but it was pretty close. I think he's just a guy that can play all three receiver positions. He can make plays after the catch, he beats man coverage. So yeah, it's it's hard to find a lot of flaws.

00:41:58
Speaker 1: I don't see. I don't see the flaws. Yes, he's not he doesn't have the size or whatever. But if you're if I needed to pick one player from this class that that would like make Pro Bowls that has a you know, I think that that isn't gonna get taken in these tops. I don't really seem that far apart from from t mac or Golden. To me, he's right there for me personally, because I just I don't know man and uh I like to celebrate like he just he just seems like an NFL player to me. I just h he seems like a like receiver. Smart is the word I would use, where he knows how to do everything and he's super explosive, like he's a home run hitter and he can hit some doubles too.

00:42:37
Speaker 2: I don't know little Washington State Kyle Williams for go.

00:42:41
Speaker 1: Koog's like, to me, he's not that different than Jamison Williams as a prospect who I probably overrated too.

00:42:46
Speaker 2: Maybe I'm like you. Maybe I'm like, okay, maybe that's too much, too much.

00:42:51
Speaker 3: He don't seem like out running the No, he didn't test that.

00:42:54
Speaker 2: Well, he's not.

00:42:55
Speaker 1: He doesn't have the the like just pure home run speed like that, but he's got enough of it to me.

00:43:00
Speaker 5: The the explosion in the separation like to put him in that category, I just I didn't see it to the extent where I watched a little little Williams and then.

00:43:09
Speaker 4: I'm like, wait, let's let's go on to somebody else.

00:43:14
Speaker 3: Oh, how dare what a hater?

00:43:16
Speaker 2: I'm not.

00:43:17
Speaker 4: I'm not trying to hate.

00:43:18
Speaker 5: Let's celebrating the explosion of other guys because I am biased towards that.

00:43:22
Speaker 1: Okay, So that that's Harmon's big group there. We got to get to the tight ends before we before we wrap up, so we will. Unless you just have something that you're dying to say about that group of wide receivers that Matt Harmon just feels like passionately about and.

00:43:37
Speaker 3: To get you I love Yeah, I love Jack Pash Dude. The guys he's a really good player, gets open, catches everything he's really he's talking about, sneaks up on you have to catch, Like, he really breaks a lot of tackles in the open field. Maybe a guy that needs to play in the slot because he certainly like I mean, he's like nine route success rate his corner route success rate. They just flat out stink like he doesn't get open down.

00:44:02
Speaker 2: The field a little going to the end.

00:44:05
Speaker 3: I mean, but I guess when you're open everywhere else, Like, just find the right deployment for this player. I think he just makes a lot of sense with a team like Jacksonville that you know, you got Liam Cohen there you're coming from, like that RAMS organization. From the front office perspective, They've just made such good use of this type of receiver, Like why can't he just be in the role that Chris Godwin was in for Liam Cohen last year? I think that just makes so much sense.

00:44:28
Speaker 2: I don't think he has the juice personally.

00:44:31
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, since we're going to talk tight end, Yeah, at two hundred and eighteen pounds, Yeah, could he fulfill the receiving role that like Evan Ingram and I understand it was a different.

00:44:41
Speaker 3: Kind of has. Yeah, there's times in his career, yeah he has.

00:44:45
Speaker 2: Or like not I was going to see zach Ertz or something.

00:44:48
Speaker 1: I just I do worry about him that there's not a lot of team I think he has a very specific skill set, and I think we've seen guys like him to me in terms of that snap and that I do worry about him open against NFL players, But we'll see there's a lot of smarter people than me, including you and Jeremiah love them, and so I hope I'm wrong being a little more down on him.

00:45:10
Speaker 2: Let's talk about the tight ends.

00:45:11
Speaker 5: So many times where a guy goes to mobile and has that week where it's like it feels obvious, and then in hindsight we look back and like, oh, yeah, we should have known after what he did to all those dudes.

00:45:22
Speaker 2: Obvious in a positive way.

00:45:23
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like why why weren't we on board sooner?

00:45:26
Speaker 1: Well that's interesting because I would say Kyle Williams and Besch maybe helped themselves as much as anyone. So they're they're there are two guys that were down in Mobile and yeah, as they say, that's that's where the NFL Draft starts. Let's take one more break and then we'll wrap up with the tight ends. Back on NFL Daily, wrapping up with the tight ends, and this is just gonna be vibes harmon harmon. For some reason, it doesn't do tight ends.

00:45:54
Speaker 2: And reception perception. I mean, they are receivers, Okay. Can I tell you why take too long?

00:46:01
Speaker 4: Wow?

00:46:02
Speaker 3: I mean you you spoiled it there.

00:46:04
Speaker 4: I was going to give you. I was going to give you.

00:46:05
Speaker 3: I was going to give you the dork reason, which is okay. You know I've been charting receivers now for twelve years. I've been doing reception perception. So like, okay, I can tell you this player has you know, is this percentile versus man coverage? Like this is the type of role, the type of offense, everything he could play in.

00:46:22
Speaker 2: You can compare really good years. That's really cool. I like that.

00:46:25
Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:46:26
Speaker 3: I mean, for you've got guys in the database that have been there, there through there their entire career, like Mike Evans his entire career is in the reception perception database. You know, we start over with tight ends. We're going back to square one.

00:46:37
Speaker 2: I don't know what's right about How old are you, Harmon? You're still a young man. How old are you? Well?

00:46:41
Speaker 3: And I'm thirty three.

00:46:43
Speaker 2: I'll be thirty four this year to be in this business.

00:46:46
Speaker 3: This leads me to my second point of why I'm not going to do it, which is I'm a happily married man. I'm trying to say, happily married man, Buddy, I got enough receivers to do. You know, the requests that come in in the reception perception discord. It's like, hey, chart Ricky White, out of un there's too many receivers. I got enough on my plate.

00:47:04
Speaker 2: Okay.

00:47:04
Speaker 1: But this is where you know I would never had a chance to work exactly with you. We were both at NFL Media at the same time, and it was what a star. Harmon was a shooting star, and they they messed up letting letting Harmon go from the fantasy department. But you know, he had a great opportunity. But if I was going to give you advice sort of in a boss role here, I would say like well, forget Ricky White. You know, Tyler Warren and Colston Lovelin, these top guys, they're more box office then your fourth to seventh round receivers. So maybe just don't do receiver twenty threes through sixty and just do like the stars of the tight ends, and that would be good for just people's interests.

00:47:46
Speaker 2: People would pay for that, That's what I'm saying.

00:47:48
Speaker 3: It sounds like, Greg, you want to do the tight end now.

00:47:51
Speaker 1: Potentially I like bringing you back to more our level, which is we're not just doing our vibes. We watched these guys, but we're not breaking it down like Harmon does. I do think you should wait Harmon's opinions. No offense, Patrick more than ours, none previous conversation, but this one we're on equal footing. So do you like I'm going to start with Patrick then, because it feels like there's a big two. It feels like there's a big four at tight end this year, but really the two guys Colston Lovelin and Tyler Warren, who Jeremiah again has in the top I think ten of his overall players. I'm I'm not sure where Loveland landed there. They feel like the Big Two. Do you have a favorite between those two?

00:48:33
Speaker 4: Yes, I have a Big two, but it's one of those is not in it?

00:48:36
Speaker 2: Okay.

00:48:36
Speaker 5: Tyler Warren is such a mechanized destroyer of worlds that does so many different things.

00:48:41
Speaker 4: He has to be the te one.

00:48:42
Speaker 5: The explosion is quantified by the tight end, by the combine work leaps off the screen, so he's my te one. Harold Fannon Junior, my fury, though, is one of my favorite players in this draft. The production is off the charts. I have beef with our production score from NGS, which somehow has one as as more productive than Harold fan and Junior, who literally had more catches at tight end than anybody in the history of college football last year. He is twenty years old. Shout out to Michael Florio. I'm keeping track of ages here where he will be twenty one coming up in July, so he's a full year younger than Colston Loveland. He ran that four to seven in Indy, Okay also four to seven and Indie Keenan Allen. Right, when somebody does things so differently in a different way and they still produce, I think that's unique and unique.

00:49:38
Speaker 4: Talent is what you want. I am a Harold fan and junior guy.

00:49:41
Speaker 1: I love I love that because you know, going way back to the combine when we talked with Nate Tice, he is as well and just thinks he's such a unique player. And actually think bucketing those two guys Matt makes sense because I sort of don't know fully what to do with him, and I'm with Patrick in the set that I actually would feel more comfortable probably going drafting Fannin ahead of his consensus. Then I would which will probably be what second round, if you really want to make sure you get Harold Fannin, then I would bet in the farm on a top ten pick for Tyler Warren, just because I'm just not sure he's so unique that I'm just not sure he is. He special enough to be like almost different than any tight end out there where he is not to give the Debo comparison again, but he's like tight end Debo, you know, it's like just this guy you got to get the ball to that's got to run people over and just destroy you.

00:50:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's my thing with Tyler Warren is I do think he's very similar to some of the receivers we talked about where it's like what team and like what offensive coordinator is he playing for, because I think he's kind of gotten a reputation as he's just a traditional inline tight end who's really good as a blocker. But like I think that's just because he plays in the Big ten and like he's like a tough guy, you know, because I think he's more of like a singular design touches type of player. Like the positive side of that is that, like the Raiders did a lot of work to design things for Brock Bowers last year. Which I'm not saying this to take anything away from Bowers just because they didn't have anybody else to throw the football care you know, I mean, but I just I'm not again, I'm not taking anything away from Bowers, but like when a tight end is that much farther the most productive player on your team, like most concepts in a playbook don't like run through the tight end, So I think you just have to take that like extra work to make him Tyler Warren that is, depending on where he goes, Like the production is worth the squeeze that you're putting into it there, But if he lands with the team, I mean, you know, like a like a Ben Johnson, right, Like I mean, I think he could really find ways to use him because he's not too dissimilar to Sam Laporta, who I think is another guy that kind of because he comes out of Iowa, he gets this reputation is like a rugged tight end. But you've really had that. The Lions have had to do a lot to design things for Sam laport and obviously it's been more than worth it for them.

00:51:58
Speaker 1: See if I was or a perception, I would be curious how he would if he was rather Tyler Warren, I would be curious how he would play out on that because he seems even more like a burden type, which is just kind of like, hey, run over there and throw it, And I do worry it's really hard to like evaluate football.

00:52:21
Speaker 2: Smarts for lack of a better word, on the field.

00:52:23
Speaker 1: But he's such a unique player and it took him so long to get on the field that that worries me a lot. And the people I trust that I've asked around the league are quite low on his blocking, in fact, like it might be a huge negative. Whereas Colston Lovelin, who's lighter and stuff, he just fits more what you see as a tight end, and he kind of fits more of a mold of a guy that like, yeah, he's not much of a blocker in college, but like we can build him up and we can teach him that, and the want to is all there, and Warren's just such a unique player, and his unique skill is not route running.

00:52:55
Speaker 2: It's just like watch out, here comes.

00:52:58
Speaker 1: Tyler Warren, and it's so unique and it's so awesome that it really might work.

00:53:02
Speaker 2: So I'm with you.

00:53:03
Speaker 1: Like if I think the Jets are another interesting spot too, because they're going to be running a Lions type offense with their coordinator and Tanner Rankstrom. But if if you're asking him to just play tight.

00:53:15
Speaker 2: End, I'm more worried.

00:53:16
Speaker 1: And that's why I like Loveland more because to me, it's like I would take Loveland on twenty six twenty seven teams, and.

00:53:21
Speaker 2: That's where I like it. To me, he's like.

00:53:23
Speaker 1: Maybe a Laporta plus even where like I can see the I can see the receiver skills. I think he's gonna step into the league and be a nice tight end for you right away.

00:53:31
Speaker 5: But I think in his usage at Penn State, he was a victim of his ability. Yeah, so where it's like, okay, well he's our wildcat quarterback, not because like we're trying to force feed Tyler Warren, but because he's the best in the.

00:53:44
Speaker 2: Best athletes, best player by far.

00:53:46
Speaker 5: Yeah that could put in that position, and so he's going to get those volume target opportunities, not because like that's how you get him the ball, but because he's he's the best player on the team to do that to where like a few years ago, like all those player would be going to like say all right, or just like any other good Pin State player, but because it was him, Like that's that's where a large volume of his opportunity came from. But then you see him when he is split out wide, when he is in the slot running a seam, like he teleports away from corners in safeties, Like the explosion is there.

00:54:20
Speaker 2: It picks up.

00:54:20
Speaker 1: You're right, like we didn't test at all, which is a little bit of a worry. But uh, but he's he's one of two players at least in this class where I think, well, would Taysom Hill plus really be a bad outcome. Taysom Hill is a pretty useful player. I'd be a little worried both him and Jalen Milroe, you know, who are very different players, and I think Milroe would be plus plus, but I'm like, actually, Taysom Hill plus plus would be kind of great. I just I would be a little worried about taking him, like in the top ten between the rest of the the tight ends. Harmon who stands out to you?

00:54:56
Speaker 2: Who do you like? Who don't you like?

00:54:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, Terrence Ferguson from Oregon. I think is like a classic like bet On a you know, bet On an athlete, bet On the traits and I do think he actually could end up being really, you know, really productive down the line in his career. Maybe not like right away, but that just seems like the type of tight end who hits. I think he I like his ball skills, I like just the movement skills for him. And Mason Taylor from LSU. I know a lot of people really like Mason Taylor. I do as well. He just is it seems like a good like maybe you're not hitting the A plus like outrageous high upside tight end, but something in like kind of that zach ertzish range where he just catches everything and he becomes a really good complimentary part of your passing game. I think those are the other two guys you got to kind of watch out for.

00:55:40
Speaker 5: Yeah, a player that was exceedingly productive from the moment he got to LSU to where it feels safer, Like I would say, Mason Taylor to me is a safer prospect than than Loveland just in terms of that wow, as a pass catchwork, because like I know, I know blocking is important, and like, yeah, ideally these guys are going to be Gronk or George Kittle, but.

00:55:59
Speaker 1: Like none of them are coming into NFL, really almost none of them.

00:56:03
Speaker 5: Yeah, so like I'm evaluating them as pass catchers.

00:56:07
Speaker 4: Yeah, I prefer Taylor to love one to.

00:56:10
Speaker 1: Me Loveland and I did go back to watch a couple of the June the games before when he had JJ McCarthy as his quarterback, which definitely helped.

00:56:18
Speaker 2: I think he has a higher ceiling off the bat.

00:56:21
Speaker 1: But I'm with you that in this class where so much feels uncertain, if I'm comparing Mason Taylor to some of these like DL five guys, who it's just like, man, it feels like there's a fifty percent chance they're going to be total bus. Taylor feels like a first round prospect. To me, he feels very much like the tight end Agbuka, where he's he's gonna be good and me and if the outcome really is Ertz or like closer to Goddard, I mean that's even better than that. I mean, if doubt if you put Goddard back in the draft, like he's going top twenty, like cause you can lock in like a plus if you can lock in a plus starter at any position, especially to And I like them a lot too. And there's really different opinions on Arroyo because that type of player has busted a lot lately, which is like the big like receiver essentially, and yet I'm into him. I don't have them too far behind Taylor. I like these tight ends. I would not I would not mind taking these tight ends again ahead of like those two guys, ahead of wide receiver five six seven for me, like I have Kyle Williams up with Golden and stuff. But after that, I think Arroyo is a really good pass catcher and I'm into it.

00:57:33
Speaker 5: I would just like when you're playing with a quarterback that's going to go number one overall and you only miss one game the thirty five. I'm gonna need more production out of him to leave frog these guys.

00:57:44
Speaker 4: Sorry, Matt, what are you going to say?

00:57:46
Speaker 3: No, you're good man. I just think it's a really interesting tight end class as well, and like, get these get these guys in the room, maybe develop a few of them. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a couple of guys who are, you know, kind of close to those those wide receivers here and maybe they end up being more just useful.

00:58:00
Speaker 1: And the crazy thing is there are wide receivers and probably a tight end or two that we just didn't even talk about, and that they're they're not only going to be starting within a year or two. They they will be like impact, big time players. And it's just we don't have all the time in the world. But it was great to talk to you, Matt Harmon. Here's what we're going to do. I'm making a I mean it's more of a threat than a promise, because yeah, newsflash, not everyone like loves going on other people's podcasts. It's ultimately like other it's more work and I'm going to try to get you to do more work. And it's going to be a podcast that's not just about wide receivers.

00:58:38
Speaker 4: Next time there.

00:58:39
Speaker 3: Is all right, I will take you up on that and we'll see. I might just end up sneaking in wide receiver talk anyway. I mean, we know, it's not like we can't talk about it. Maybe it'll be like workout tips. We're deep into the eye. We can talk. We can talk about that, we can talk about you know, egg quality, all kinds of things, man. So it was good. It was good to see you both. I'm gonna be out in LA next week for our Yahoo Sports Live Draft show, so I hope to see you both.

00:59:03
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:59:03
Speaker 1: I would normally say like we should get you in here, but you're gonna be busy, so everyone check them out at Yahoo. We're gonna be here in the studio on Draft night. By the way, Patrick, I don't know if I've mentioned that I have to use shout out to that. No, we've talked about it to the listeners. That's it for today's show. We are back. So this is actually gonna be the last NFL Daily you hear for a few days because we have a forties and free Agents with Daniel Jeremiah that's going to drop on Thursday. Then We're back with another forties and free agents. That's going to go Monday morning, and then we're off every single day next week to cover the NFL Draft And yeah when when Matt Harmon's lugging around that gallon water bottle, Football's back. Welcome to NFL Daily, where we oh wait, do that again?

00:59:52
Speaker 2: I sicked up