Pirates of the Caribbean with Ashley Brooke Roberts

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Speaker 1: On the dol Cast, the questions asked if movies have women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism the patriarchy ze and best start changing it with the beck dol Cast. Hi, welcome to the Backdel Cast. My name is Jamie, my name is Caitlin. This is the Betel Cast. It is our podcast where we talk about the role of women in movies. That was so fast and good, Thank you so much. Yeah. It's inspired by the Bechdel Test from you know, I don't, I know say it. I want to see. Now you complimented me on something and now I just like want it to shine your soaring and I don't want to let you down. Okay, So the Bechtel test is a test for movies where there need to be at least two female characters talking to each other about something other than a man, preferably they have names. That's the Bechdel test. Most movies do not pass it, or just barely pass it, just barely, just barely. But we're talking about all kinds of movies here, good ones, bad ones, ones, past test ones. Don't. We don't discriminate even where we should. Yeah, Oh, so you just said right before the cast started, you said no more cob webs, which reminds me of my new favorite bit to do because I've started to use I'm just going into this showering renaissance where I've started to use baby shampoo again, and it's great because it says no more tears on it. Yeah, And so sometimes I'll just like look at it and be like, it's right, no more tears. Also be saying no more cob webs reminded you of how I don't have any more tears in my life. What if the cure to depression and sadness was just baby shops and Johnson shampoo. Yeah, which brings us to our sponsor, no more Tear Mike's Hard Lemonade. Leade, you're drinking one again. It's been a while. It's been a while since we've recorded. We had a Way. Yeah, we were away and now we're We were at the Women in Comedy Festival. Sure it was fine. Should we introduce our guests? Hey, we sure should. Our guest today is a comedian. She writes for National Geographic Explorer, and she hosts the Fresh Out Show at UCB East in New York. City, Ashley Brooke, Robert, Hello, Hi, Hi, Hi, thank you for coming. Oh my god, thank you for having me. We're excited to have you. I'm pretty popped. Yeah, this is going to be a fun one. I can feel it. We're talking about Pirates of the Caribbean, the Curse of the Black Pearl. It's so good. So the score, the score is good, the movie, the outfits. Well, it's a good balance of things I love and things I love to hate. That's Pirates of the Caribbean for me. I discovered a whole new thing I hated by watching Pirates of the Caribbean this time, but like a fun one. What is it? Orlando Blum and his work I hate having He's so bad. He did it a good impersonation of Johnny Depth though, when he was like me, why is he all like movable? And I was like, oh, you can be fun like you at your moment in this three hour when you're on screen for a full hour. Man, he stinks I could beat him up. Yeah, a giant see, I could fix him. How do you know? I'm sorry if I was supposed to say, I've just seen, you know, uncensored pictures on the Internet. When he has been naked with Katy Perry, which is definitely ethically wrong. Why has he been naked with Katy Perry? Go to nude beaches a lot and people take pictures of them. They're not anymore, but they did for like a good two years. It's one of my favorite phrases. This is a hogs out kind of beach. Yeah, hogs out, hogs out. That's a fun thing to yell in a sexual context. You know, you reach a certain point you're like, okay, hogs out. That's how I do floor play? Did I do four and four play? So? Um, Ashley, when did you first see this movie today? Yeah? Well okay, so when you emailed me about it, I was like, this is very is this coming into my life in a big way, because in October I was stuck on the Pirates of the Caribbean ride for like a good fifteen minutes, and then I just went to New Orleans, which is a pirate town and is what the ride is based off of. And then I was like, I can't wait to see this movie, and so I watched it this morning. I wanted it to be very fresh, you know, So, yeah, being stuck in the Pirates of the Caribbean. I think that that would be fun. But was it? It was great? Which part of it I've been on that um When the women are being sold as why like a big cavernous room, that's the best part in the loudest. Yeah. And there's the women who are just like being sold as winches. I think it's what they're called never sales of women. And they carried it on there like you know what, we gotta sell the women in the movie too, well, women are a commodity. We are basically just to be bought and sold. She is called she is called treasure in the movie as well. Yes, I wrote that down. I saw this movie for the first time in the eater in two thousand and three. How many times I see in the theater? Well about four? And then I bought it on DVD and I watched it a good twenty times after that. I was obsessed with this movie for a while. Not so much anymore. That's interesting because I listened to your episode about the Titanic, and you're obsessed with that too. So you have something with boats and water and like a class division where a woman's in love with a poor man and they can't be together. It's like we noticed so many Titanic parallels because we watched this. Aristotle was there and everything we watched together Aristotle. Aristotle catched it with us. We've never been more excited are he did. There are a bunch of Titanic parallels, namely that like a poor guy named Jack saves a woman on or near a boat then gets sort of arrested because of it because they thought like something un savery was happening. It is like a weird I know that there's no way that they were thinking of that scene from Titanic, but it felt like it because it was like the same scene, except that Jack and Elizabeth weren't in love, and it was like her chowed wig wearing not boyfriend who was like unhand her, which I love that phrase. Another parallel a lot of eyeshadow being worn by both Billy Zane and uh eyeliner eyeliner being more true. They both wear it so well. Billy Zane, what was the story with the eyeliner? Did he insist? Did they insist? I could see it going either way? We'll never know. Miss him rost in Paradise, just getting his life. When did you see the movie for the first time, Jamie. I think I saw it when it came out. Um, yeah, I vaguely remember seeing it at a drive in movie I think in Maine, and yeah, it came out in two thousand three. Yeah, I think I saw it with my cousins and I liked it. I think I was pushed into liking it more by my mom being extremely horny for Johnny Depp. She had We had a lot of stuff around the house, and so it's like, oh, I guess I liked this movie, and then by Hot Topic because they carried all the pirates of the Heavy and stuff, and I wanted to hang out with the goths really bad, and so I tried to assimilate. Even though I don't think I was crazy about the movie, but there were there were a lot of external reasons that I pretended to be very into it. Sure. Yeah, I did own one of those Hot Topic Pirates shirts. Really, I say. I had the beanie and then I had the booty shorts. Back when there were booty shirts with words on the butts Pirates booty. I was like, twelve pairs old, very cool, very cool to be wearing. Yeah, I'm a little embarrassed about how much. I like that, Like I was quoting most of the lines of dialogue as we were watching it together. It's a little she decided the top twenty minutes. It wasn't well. I It's one of those movies where I saw in the theater and I'm like, oh my god, there's guns in action and fighting and boats and and all this cool stuff I love and Johnny Depp is so hot and I really latched onto it. Also is the time where I was obsessed with Lord of the Rings, great crossover. I was very I was very into Orlando Bloom connection as as Lego Lass. He is a lot sexier. Yes, yes, because he looks less like Orlando Bloom and we're like a magical creature. Yeah, so I was. He's not good. He's a terrible actor. I'm a bad actor and I can do a better job than him. So we Oh god, I wish you had Orlando Bloom's part in this movie. Would have been amazing. Well, that's the younger versional you can plaything I could do matter the movie. I'll just do the recap. Recap. First of all, young Elizabeth is very horny for Pirates. She's like, I love pirates, let's go to let's go to the Caribbean where there's pirates at vampires when I was age Yeah, and she just has access to pirates. If I had access to vampires when I was at that age, I would have joined. Sure. Yeah. So she's like, I love pirates. Cool. She meets a young Will uh, and then she sees this like scary boat. It's maybe a pirate boat, we don't know. Years past, Will Turners, now a blacksmith Johnny Depp comes to town trying to commandeer some ships. He gets caught and then there's a fight between him and Will Turner. Oh, by the way, Will Turner's very horny. For Elizabeth Swan, it's a horny movie. It's a very horny One of our favorite phrases came up during it. We were time at how perhaps this movie has quite a bit of horny depth. You may remember from the Gli episode that we just so much crossover between the episode and people are very horny in this movie because they are trying to capture Captain Jack Sparrow and he's like, I'm the best pirate around and they're like, no, you're not, You're the worst pirate. And then he does some stuff to prove that he is indeed the best pirate around. Some pirates come, other pirates led by Captain Barboza. Because Elizabeth has this pirate medallion that she's stole from Will Turner. It rests just so upon her butts it falls so that we can we may have as the audience many shots of Kara Knightley's but it's like but also we're looking at you know, Chekov's gun, but we're like antities, very tasteful. Like the pirates come searching for this pirate medallion because she falls in the water, and you know, whenever a pirate mendallion falls in the water, it sends out this message to all the pirates to come and get it. It was like a boom. Yeah, it was a weird like shockwave. Another Titanic connection though jewelry in the water right, I was like there it is. So the pirates come and Captain Barboza is like, give us that trinket and she's like no, And then they capture her because there's this whole curse where they think they need her blood to lift the curse because they stole all these coins from this treasure chest, just like Titanic again, the treasure, the blood. You need her blood. So they take her and then Will is like, wait, that's my girlfriend who I want to fuck, so he goes after her. He gets captured Jack Sperry. He's like, come on, we got a mission. So they go after her, and then a lot of nonsense happens. It's a very complicated story, much more complicated than it needs to because the second act I couldn't make cancer tales like you just you're just like, oh, this is happening now, like the point where it's like, oh, skeletons, I guess skeletons, and then and you know, if the skeleton part plays out, and then the skeleton part's over and you're like, well, okay, that was nice. It's about forty minutes too long. It's extreme. It's a two hour movie. Yeah, launched it one in three quarters times too, because we pretended. Fun fact, we pretended we weren't almost done with the movie. When Aristotle texted us back. We just started. Because right anyways, they're trying to get this medallion. They get it, they lose it again, exchange hands a bunch of different times. We don't really know whose side Jack sparrows on. Sometimes he's like bartering with the bad pirates, sometimes he's bartering with the good British guys. Who knows. And then finally they were able to like get the right person's blood. Turns out it's Will Turner's blood because his dad was a pirate, even though he does not want that to be true, but he accepts his fate in his destiny. And then they can call what Orlando Bloom does with his face and body, and he the dialogue is delivered right, so they restore the fucking coin to the thing and then everyone's good and then the curses lifted and the pirate some of them die, and then there's like twenty more minutes of the movie, but that's longer than and Jelie is the world's longest. So this was like this came out two three, so like a O L. Chat boards are at their peak around this time, and so I was like tenor leven and I would troll around on the chat boards and ask people to join bands with me and tell them I was a seventeen year old boy. Whatever. Anyways, one time met someone on one of the chat boards and we started I am about starting at the end together and then somewhere else I found a gift of Johnny Depp in Orlando Bloom kissing on the side of Pirate of the Caribbean. Accidentally hyper linked it into the conversation with the stranger, and then he blocked me, which is like the well that I mean, is the better way for that to go. Wait was it a real photo of them kissing or with a photoshopped I can't tell. I assumed it was photoshopped at the time. I'm looking for the gift now, but I'm just turning up a lot of fan art. Yeah, we don't know. We don't. Also, I don't find Orlando Bloom to be a sexual being. I used to, but now, even if he has a huge hog, I'm not attracted to either one of them. I get Johnny Depp, I don't know. I get young Johnny Depp, but like, yeah, well he also had all those horrible things where you know, yes, we should say that his personal life is him incredibly unattractive. Yeah, I'm pretty sure we're all turned off of him with good reason. Did you see that thing recently where his like management company is countersuing him and part of the lawsuit is that he spent all of this money on a sound engineer who feeds him lines through an earpiece. So he doesn't like memorize lines. He's just shooting. He gets his lines in an earpiece and says them. So I was like watching him on this movie being like can I tell? And I couldn't tell. Yeah, So that just amount that's some hot Johnny Goss. So wow, the latest on Johnny. He sucks even more than we already knew he sucks. And geeze, that sucks. Yeah. There was a period of like five years where I was very into Johnny Depp and I watched all these movies and I was like, oh my god, Edwood, what a great movie. Donnan DeMarco, Edward Scissor Hands, edwardsis Hands, all kinds of stuff. Enny in June, Man in June is so great. Yeah, a lot chuck, a lot out from Molina, from Elina, my boy. All right, well let's let's jump in, let's talk. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay. The first thing I noticed, actually, oh, this is something Aristottle pointed out to us, so thank you for your contributions. It didn't really occur to me until he mentioned it, But in the opening scene where you see a young Elizabeth, she is maybe eleven or twelve something like that. Yeah, and you see Captain Norrington, her future betrothed wigs, well they're wearing, but he's also like presumably years old, so like he's much older. It was it's kind of gross, I mean for the era, like, yeah, forty year old men would marry like fifteen year old girls historically accurate, which man, imagine having to put yourself in that mindset, like let's hope this one grows up hot and I'll just hang out like I don't get it. But anyways, I thought you're saying that from the girl's point of view, like I hope he dies. Oh no, from the girl's point of view, let's hope he dies before I'm of age, so that I don't need to marry this wig. Gross such wig culture in so many wigs, so many wigs. So that was kind of a like a thing. And then a point Aristotle, Yes, thank you, the fact that he is a man. We overcame that shortcoming to deliver a great point. Another great point, if I do say so myself, is that because this is a Disney movie, Elizabeth Swan has a dead Mommy, true, we don't meet. In fact, we meet like three female characters all together. There's Elizabeth Swan, There's Anna Maria played by Zoey Soldonna. She's like the Lady Pirate, the one Lady Pirate, the Horrors, a couple of prostitutes slapped Johnny Depp across the face. One of them is named Giselle. It almost reminds me of like the Three Girls and Beauty and the Beast, just like these are all basically the same character. They're not going to flesh them out at all, and they're all just horny and mad and like that's all you're given, right, Yeah, I mean they each get like one or two words of dialogue, almost make a little slap. Yeah, that's pretty much I mean. And there's a couple of maids and the maids, yeah, and one of them has a few lines, And that's pretty much it. So most of the characters are men. We have Jack Sparrow, Will Turner, Commodore Norrington, Elizabeth's dad who I don't know his name. I just call him Swan Daddy, the Governor Na Governor weather be Swan weather Be. Oh yeah cool it, we get it. They're British. Then there's Gibbs, who is like not a pirate, and then also sometimes a pirate. There's a two like navy guys who provide a lot of the comic relief, and then there's there's like a pirate duo who have more comic relief, and then the dog. There's my new rule for this week, the cute dog rule. There's always a scene in these blockbuster movies where there's a cute dog, and this one it's when you know, Johnny Depp's trying to get the dog to give them the keys and dogs like no, and you're like, ah, that's a cute dog. That's from the ride. Yeah, it ish, that's from the right. There's a lot of like little scenes where I was like, oh, that's part of the ride. That's Another thing that I wanted to to talk about was this, and it has nothing to do with what the podcast is about. However, this was one of the movies in like a string of Disney movies where they were like, let's adapt our roller coasters into rides, like all the rides that are kind of old and no one wants to go. In parts of the Caribbean, is like the only one that really worked out, but The Haunted Mansion was turned into a movie with Ednie Murphy that was not a good one. The Country Bears was turned into horrifying movie that I highly recommend watching, and that movie didn't even save the ride. The ride is gone now because it was also a very scary ride. But like in the early two thousands, for whatever reason, there was some sort of production initiative to be like, let's turn our old like Disneyland roller coasters that have no ground in an existing property, and let's turn it into an existing property and see how it goes. I just want to see that pitch meeting where they're like, it'll be cheaper to make a huge, blockbuster, high budget Hollywood movie the ride, So let's save the ride by doing Yeah, well, I kind of I like that they did that, because you know, Universal does the opposite. They changed the ride to fit the movie, and then it's not the Mummy rat anymore. Now it's the Fast and the Furious Ride, And I liked the Mummy Ride Mommy ride at least in l A. They're going to change it, though, they're changing it to that's supposed to turn into the Fast and the Furious Ride. Trust me, I know, I know roller Coaster Week. Sorry to ever tubt you. Anyways, this is this is the only franchise that thrived in what I hope they called the roller Coaster innihip. But yeah, yeah, there are there are a ton of things that were pulled from the ride, the dog, I mean, most of the Tortuga scenes. It seems like that's just the ride. I've never I've never ridden the ride, so I don't know. I got to ride the rod. You gotta ride it more than water read it. Yeah, I do just love the idea that an entire feature length film was adapted from a theme park ride. From the ride is in there. Yeah, it's exciting. And then they added Johnny Depp to the rude It is because it's one of those newer animatronics that you're like, I get that too real. Yeah, the other ones are so old and like clearly from the sixties. And then there's like a very real version of Johnny death. It's scary. There's also another in Florida. I don't think it's in California yet. There's a they made a snow White in the Seven Dwarfs ride with like very new c g I Animatronics and it's the scariest thing I've ever seen in my life. I was just on it. It's really freaky. It's a really it's a three D face, but it's like they make the face and then they project a digital image on top of it. So it's okay, it's very odd looking. It's not okay anyway, this this podcast, it's about who Knows. So we're looking at a predominantly male driven story because while there is like one main woman in the movie, like the rest of the characters are men. One of the first lines of dialogue that's said in the movie is it's bad luck to have a woman on board, even a miniature one. So right away we get a a great idea of you know how this movie is gonna treat women. I mean, it's like an exercise in tokenism like pretty much throughout, and it's sort of I feel like pulled from more superhero action movie tropes of like, ah, the woman is going to be dragged along, she doesn't know what's going on and like what is this brave new world? And then she'll get to do one cool thing, she'll have her moment and she's like I'm in charge now, but she's not really, and then she kisses someone at the end end of movie. It just god, I hate it. Yeah, that is pretty much the trajectory of the story. Um Can I interject with something that I enjoyed about the movie? And I thought that this was really interesting, which is that they used the costuming and the beginning with her in the corset where she's like I can't move, to like really illustrate her oppression, you know, in the situation that she's in. And then by the end of the movie she's wearing pants. She got put in like she can move now, because you know, whatever sexy on a woman makes her not be able to move, and so by the end she was like I can move and on my own woman. So I thought that I like the way they did that with Yeah, I didn't think of that. I didn't think that the treatment of Elizabeth Swan, which okay, first of all, let me just talk about the last name Swan. For female characters, it keeps happening because we've got Bella Swan, We've got there's a character from Once upon a Time that show on TV. Is it sexist? Is it lazy? I say probably be. Well, it's just like, how will the audience know that this is an attractive and desirable woman unless we give her a name that resembles a sexy bird, which Swans are the sexiest pon Caitlin Sex Patients. Oh man, what a good name. That's my strip her name another another thing that that I mean maybe and this is this is overthinking a little bit. But Elizabeth Swan, she's always very into pirates. Cool, that's her weird hobby. She has a lot about pirates. But by the end she is fighting two on the side of people who we are to believe pillogen rape, and she's like, this is good and she's trying to stop the people who are like, you know, oppressive and bad in their own way, but are also saying, hey, maybe you don't pillage and rape, so why Like it's it's an interesting dynamic. So she's not an especially well developed character. She's you see her in different moments, like being pretty resourceful. Like earlier on in the movie, when the bad pirates come to collect the medallion that she has, they go after her and she like hits them with the bed warmer slash. I'm pretty sure it's a waffle iron, she like opens it up in the hot coals go down, and then she runs into another room and she sees like swords above the mantle, and so she tries to grab one out and she realizes it's just like a decorative thing. And then whenever they do catch her, she invokes the right of parlay. So she's like, I know all about pirates. I my obsession with pirates is going to actually serve me in this instance, and that's what allows her to be like taken on to the ship. And then she gets captured. But she's a bit she's like resourceful and she can kind of hold her own in certain scenes. But then there's a bunch of other scenes where she faints and then falls into the water and has to be saved, and then her dress gets taken off, and then she has to be saved again when they're on the Eli de Morta and they're about to like cut her up and spill her blood everywhere. Let's play a game. I'm gonna say a thing, and then you guess how many times this happens in the movie, all right, So the number of times the Elizabeth Wan's dress has to be removed. I'm gonna say three times, I'll go for Oh, it's only it's only two. But the fact that it happens in all is like no one whenever Giant Up takes it off underwater, and then whenever Captain Barbosa he gives her a dress to be like, wear this and dine with me, or dine with the crew and be naked like okay um. And then as he's like sending her off, what should I do? So as he's like sending her off the plank to maroon her on an island, he is like, give me that dress back, So she has to take off her dress. So that happens twice. So the number of times where she has to be saved by a man six, it's only two. Really, at least that I caught me. I mean I started she's doing than I thought. I might have missed some Like I started telling this kind of like halfway through the movie, so I might have there might be things where I missed um. But yeah, it's the time when um, Captain Sparrow has to save her when she falls into the water because women be fainting? You know? Was the second time was a fake faint? Right? The second time was a fake faint, but she doesn't get saved. Then that was like her, that was her resourcefulness. This is all the power. That is literally all I can do. You will believe that I faint because women, and that what it buys her like a split second of time. I don't know why that happens exactly, It's very stupid. No. But the second time is when she is in the cave on the Ela de Morta and will turn her like swims up and has to rescue her before her blood spills. Yeah, okay, number of times she is held captive by a group of men on a boat, let's say too. I'm going to say four. It's first whenever the bad pirates led by Barbosa capture her and like locker in the cabin, and then again much later in the movie whenever Norrington, her potential fiance, is like go in the cabin. You're not allowed to be a part of this adventure. She escapes then, which is kind of cool. She like ties some flags together and she's like, I'm going to take matters into my own hand. Love it. Yeah, she escapes actually then saves the other group of pirates who but they're these ones are the good pirates. These are the ones that like Cotton who has the parrot. I love that parrot and it's a good parrot. And then then there's the monkey and the monkey, and then lots of fun animal companions love it. So she actually saves them because they are in like the little jail cells in the bottom of the boat, so she rescues them. So that was, like, I guess, a coold thing to see. But let's move on to the number of times that she is struck across the face. Oh my god, I'm gonna say three for that one. I'm gonna say too, I only kind of two. Geez, what is it two? I don't know. They forgot about the role of threes and storytelling. The roll toos baby um once whenever she first boards the Black Pearl and the I think like the first mate or some guy slaps across the face and then he's like, you'll speak when spoken to, and she's like, I learned my last and right as one does. Uh. And then Barboza hits her across the face after he discovers that Will Turner Senior is not her father, so he's like, you tricked me, and then he slaps across the face and then she tumbles down a hill and finally the number of times a gun is pointed at her, Oh my goodness, four, it's three. Then I counted, uh, which we could have missed some. One of them is when she and Sparrow are marooned on the island and he's like, first split second contemplates murdering her, so he pulls off the gun and like points it at her head. There's one where Anna Maria is like, these pirates are after us. We gotta give her up and then they won't be after us anymore. Sounds, so she points a gun at her head. Oh crap, I forget what The third one is? Is it in the beginning when Johnny Depp has taken her hostage because he's like in the first fift in minutes, so yeah, he rescues her and then immediately uses her. Is like Lee Bridge that ward keeps coming up in this movie to uh, what you say it again? That way the fridge there wasn't smitten at the first time when you're talking about God. Sorry, I'm triggered. So a lot of things happened to Elizabeth Swan that aren't ideal to be fair. A lot of guns are pointed, and a lot of the male characters a lot of a lot of them are punched, like a lot of there's a lot. It's an action movie. There's a lot of violence. But it was just a little upsetting to see so much violence. I think, I think if we're if we're saying, you know, the amount of times a gun is pointed at you versus in it like a big moment, versus the amount of times you get to point a gun in a big moment. She's kind of I mean, she does get to have her moments, but it's not she was actually pretty good at fighting at the in there. She could she handled a sword almost to the point where I was like, where'd you Yeah, yeah, maybe she went to boarding school and took fencing as an elective. It's very British. And then she has that big moment at the end where someone mentions pain. One of the bad pirates is like, you all know the meaning of pain, and then she goes like pain, try wearing a and then that point hits him with it, saying that was that was that one didn't hit for me too much, And I'm like, you say, a girl exactly. It's like that's the kind of like feminist line that your dad could write. Right. I was just you want to know about pain? Right? I bet like the writers of the movie were like, oh, let's have her say to stand. Then they were jerking off and jerking off, and it all comes full circle. It comes for full circle, guys. It works for women, and it works from a narrative standpoint. And then they come in a in the center like they're all upwards trajectory, and then he goes and everyone gets splashed. This is my fantast The point I'm trying to make is that like there's a lot of violence directed at her. She has some agency at some points in the story, but a lot of the time she's having to be saved. She's kind of being dragged around, used as bait. She's a bit of an ungenue in the way that a lot of I mean, I don't know. And there's again there's like a pretty there's always a missed opportunity for like, let's just give her another substantial female character to talk to, because it's not even like her character and the way she's treated have a lot of problems but that but like the thing always is, it's just like there's no one for her to talk to who isn't a man in this story, shocking, A few women shocking, And it's yeah, like she and Zoe Seldona could have a very sexy conversation about anything, you know, but there's no narrative investment in making that happen, and no narrative investment in making is always held down as character important enough to make her worth talking to. Yeah, there is a moment where I'm like, Okay, I guess that's cool, where I think she's like the first mate so that whenever Sparrow they think he's been killed, I think she becomes the captain of the black So like, hey, a woman in a leadership role. That's cool. But again, like, but we know almost nothing about her character. There's a lot of a lot to be said for high functioning alcoholics in this movie too. Yeah, man, Jack Sparrow, he's the high functioning alcoholic. It's almost presented to us as like, why would anyone ask Jack Sparrow why he's good at his job? He's Jack Sparrow, And it's like, well, he's never not drunk, but he is good at his job, which is like, oh, let's just all be alcoholics where probably all like that. That's my philosophy. Anyways, the drunkest man is in charge New testament. Oh, I thought of another thing that you can look out for in a movie where when a male character is complimenting a female character, does he compliment her about anything besides horror appearance? Horror. I'm having a really hard time saying words today. I don't know floor play what it is for horror parents. You gotta have horror parents on point before you can engage in a four play. What I meant to say is, does he compliment a woman on anything besides her appearance? I overcompense that time as far as I could tell. In this movie, whenever Norrington is trying to propose to Elizabeth Swan, he's like, you're a beautiful woman, You've turned into a fine woman. You're so hot, marry me. Yes. But then it's sorry to bring back to Titanic, But Norrington is the cow Hockley of Pirates of the Caribbean, right, and so we're not supposed to like that. He's it's not like a like a normalized thing of like, oh this is how you talked to Like we're like, oh, he's a bad guy. He doesn't know anything about her, And then like not that wild turners virtually even a character like who knows what is there to love about him? What do we know about him? He's a blacksmith, he's a good one. He wears a good at it. The sword balances perfectly, And I just it's so I can't bridge the idea of like imagine Orlando Bloom accomplishing a task like I can't. There's no way he's good at anything. God have you seen Elizabethtown? No? God, it's bad. Yeah, I skipped that one. Okay, I'm going to his IMDb pitch carry on something. I thought it was interesting at the beginning. So she's like so in Two Pirates and so I sort of I might have given her character more than it is warranted. But I was like, oh, she has like a thirst for adventure, and like she wants to go an adventure and she wants to live this like full life. And then she does get to go on an adventure, which I thought was pretty cool, even though she is like completely submissive to the adventure, like it's not through her own agency that she's really on this adventure. She's sort of taken along, but it wasn't nice. Something happened to this poor rich child, you know where she was. It seemed like she would have just lived a life of seclusion otherwise. So that's true. There's a lot of points in the movie where she could like opt out, but she wants to be there. She wants to be on the journey, even if she constantly has to take her clothes off. Yeah. And I was just in New Orleans and like the whole time I was there, so like the gender ratio in New York, there's just more women than men, which is great. I love it, give me all that female energy. And then I went to New Orleans and I was like, something is wrong, and I realized it was because there's just so many men in New Orleans because like very much a pirate town. And so watching this, I was thinking about like that feeling of just too much testosterone. You know, you're a hard pressed to find a woman in this movie. It's extremely hard. And I guess you know, we're assume there are other women around, but we don't see them in anything but submissive roles, with the exception of Anna Maria, because it's we see prostitutes and we see mates, and those are the two categories of women. Yeah, And the thing I remember the most about Anna Maria is that she got sucked over by Jack Sparrow exactly, and so she's like bitter, you know, and and also a victim. True, true, Yeah. I want to see an entire movie about her. I think that would be a much more interesting. And now it's always saw that she's got that billing power. Yeah, yeah, that would be amazing. That's a great idea. You should sell it to Disney, like, hey, Disney had its original character of all that myself. Um. Yeah. The problem with Elizabeth is that she she's there and then she does kind of do stuff sometimes, like she does save herself by escaping from the boat. She does help the other good pirates escape. She's not a bad character like she's but there's just no one. She gives her hand in marriage so that the guy will go rescue her lover. She falsely gives her hand in marriage, which is again a part of her resourcefulness. I think, where she's just like a line to him and make him think that I love him if it means saving this other man who everyone is horny for everyone. All three of the horny dep it's horny Depp, the horny Depp. Sorry but yeah, I'm Sparrow. Will Turner and Norrington all want to fuck Elizabeth real hard. She's the only woman in the mood exactly because like between I mean, there's one woman pirate, There no women in the military, there's no moms, there's no moms, there's no miles. Yeah, there's there's some prostitutes on Tortuga. A lot of stuff could be diffused by adding some mills into the mix. That's true of any movie. Honestly, it's true. Where are the mills? Yeah, Elizabeth isn't the one ever really driving the story. If her if her actions influence the direction that the story takes, it's only for a very brief moment and it doesn't happen that often. So it's all these male characters who are driving the narrative the entire time, and it's just like, we're over it. Let a lady do something, God damn it. Yeah, you're between a rack and a hard place for this one, because you want there to be women doing more things, but there's not enough women to get much done. What was that movie that just mad Max Fury Road? You go into you find like the pirate women right at the end, the women of they could have have had they could have had a ship women. I liked those women. They were the only part of the movie. I like we did an episode about it because they were the pirate women. And then there were the Victoria's Secret. Yeah, the hot Mommy. Yeah boy, I'm I'm like flashing back to arguing about that movie. Yeah, I'm sorry that you're triggered. I'm fine. Yeah, why aren't there a ship of lady pirates? I'm sure that would have been a killer scene. Yeah. I meant to research this. I think there was like a famous female pirate who was like, let's see her, let's make a movie about her. I believe it immediately. Yeah, without reservation. I'm not even going to google it if it's not of PARI existed. Yes, sorry for bringing up down. I just don't know if I know that, I didn't need that. She's a famous female spy. Yeah, heart, I believe were War one. Oh cool, Yeah, she's cool. Okay, wikild be a page women in piracy. We're prepared, we're prepared. Another thing that happens that I was like, Oh, that's that's cool. For Elizabeth to do is she tricks Jack into getting drunk so that he can pass out, and then she burns all the rum on the island to create a signal for the navy to find. And she fits being way drunk er than she actually like, she does a lot of cool stuff. She's smart because you know, if if her and Kira Knightley was like seventeen when she shot this movie, Yeah, isn't that crazy, But it's like for her aid, you know, I don't know if I would have thought of that ship if I was sixteen and also completely sheltered, and so the character, I mean, she's not always treated well. She is submissive in ways that you know, you wish she kicked people's asks when she didn't. But she's smart, she's capable, and that is never called into question by the movie. It's called into question by certain characters, but the movie never seems to doubt. You know, this is a capable person who can accomplish stuff. Again, this movie, for me, is just like a failure of giving her any like giving us any other female characters to like really connect with, because we don't have time with anyone. I mean, as someone who is also very horny for pirates. I did like to see unscreen all the pirates. They keep talking about the pirate code and then moving, and I'm like, is that like bro code but instead of like bros before hose. I was imagining that their phrase would be booty before booty, but it's like pirate booty before lady but before And yeah, yours is good. I liked it. Thank you well. That made me think for some reason, of Jack is very good at being a pirate. Norrington is very good at being a military man. Will Turner is very good at being a swords smith man. Elizabeth is not allowed to have a career, right, but she's very good at being pretty, and very good at being wanted, and very good and showing her cleaping. Her clothes are so precariously close to not being on her, Like how close her clothes get to her nips? Yeah is wild. I kept waiting for a nip. I was w a nip, but apparently she was underage, so you know, we really couldn't be showing those nips. Yeah. Yeah, she knows a lot about pirates. You can assume that she wrote read a bunch about like pirate lore because she were cited the whole thing. She's like, I invoked right, a parley according to the code of the Brethren of the laid down by the pirates Morgan and Bartholomew. You have to take me to your captain and all the time, and I'm like, wow, do you read about pirates that she knows as much about pirates as I know about Haley Joel Osmond. If there was a point where I could invoke a fact about Haley Jewels, I would be ready. I would be safe. Yeah. Can I take you up on that right now? Yeah. Haley Joel was discovered in an i Q when he was three years old, and he was put into a Pizza Hut commercial and later rosa prominence in his first role as far as Cup, where he learned how to tie your shoes on the set. Wow, take me to your leader. There's one thing I was thinking about, which is in the beginning when they're talking to Jack Sparrow, he's talking to the two dentists. They're like, are you a pirate? Rattles off a bunch of things that pirates do, and he says rape, which I thought was interesting for like a kid's movie, because they kind of whitewashed right, but he says the actual word, right. I thought it was Raid might have said rape, though I don't think he said right. I think he's like plunder. Yeah, he's like, all right, Oh, don't worry, I know the line. He's alright, I confess mine, no, come in, come in, I'm not gonna get it totally right. I love this dance you just took back. He's like, alright, I'm gonna My attention is to comment here, one of these ships pick up a crew in Tortuga, rate pillage, plunder and otherwise and any like trails often system other stuff. I'm looking at the script right now, so maybe this was strange. I mean that maybe this is an earlier draft. I confess I intend to commandeer one of these ships, pick up a crew in Tortuga, and go on the account and do a little honest pirrating that that's not what happened. He may maybe he improvised the word rape, which, knowing Johnny later history, may have just been at the top of his head. We don't know. I think now that you say that, that makes a lot more sense, because it struck me as odd that they would allow that to happen, right, I mean it doesn't come up anywhere else. It's a Disney movie. I highly doubt they would say rape. But pirates are famous for raping and pillaging, so I assumed it was raid. But I guess we'll never know. We'll never never see the movie again, and neither will anyone, and this is the last we'll ever talk about it. I wish she had said the line with a little honest py writing. That's so much worse. I wonder where that came from. It's bad, bad dialogue. Oh. I made a list of all the words that women are referred to throughout the movie. Rather than calling them women, they are called strumpet, which would say horror or prostitute. Yeah, they're called poppet. I remember that, which it means like little girl, doll, darling. You know, it's terrible as when I was younger, I assumed the word poppet just because of how it's invoked in that movie, just that like idiot, Like I think that my like cousins and I would call each other poppets after seeing that movie, just to call each other like dumbasses. Well, he uses it very condescendingly, so it's not surprising. Yeah, I just didn't know it's specific to a woman, but I guess it is. I thought it was a pastry, just like I thought strumpet was. I'm like tea and strumpets. Yeah, I think you think of crumpets, but yeah, and throw a splash of puppet. She's called a bonnie last, which I suppose in itself isn't offensive, but it means like pretty girl. Here's the thing. A lot of times grown women are referred to as girls. And it's problematic because one, we don't call grown men boys. We don't say like, oh that boy over there, referring to a man, but people will be like, oh, who's that girl when they're referring to a grown woman. And it's just this a way to like diminish a woman's existence. Men love sex, babies, it's improve especially if they can come. Can that baby come? Also, women are referred to as pleasurable company, and true, that's my stripper name coming to stage next, pleasurable company. And then finally, as you mentioned before, Jack is like not all treasures silver and gold night, referring to Elizabeth being treasure, a commodity to be owned. Can treasure too, Let's make a teacher so yeah, that's a fun thing. Does anyone have any final thoughts about the movie? I liked it more than I thought I was going to, even though I don't think that that's um she has any agency at all, and it's a very disappointing for U women. But as far as entertainment him, it was fun as a movie, solid blockbuster like it. It's fun. I wish I still had those booty shorts. That sounds awesome. Yeah, right, that Beanie probably best lost. Elizabeth Swan doesn't have enough agency or stuff to do. But given the way we're introduced to her and how we're introduced her, I think she is a good character who has no one to interact with that isn't a horny man, and that, for me is the tragedy. Right With that, let's talk about whether or not the movie passes the Becto test. It's it's a little unclear. Yeah, the first scene where two women are interacting with each other, for sure does not pass because it's Elizabeth talking to her maid. She does not have a name, and I don't think is ever given a name, which is weird because she has I would say, almost as much screen time as Zoe Saldana does. Right, She's in it like quite a bit, but we don't know her name. Most of the time she's strapping up Elizabeth's corset, but um, yeah. So they have a conversation first about She's like, what a difficult day for you? And Elizabeth is like, yeah, the commodore proposed whoa. I wasn't expecting that. And she's like, no, I meant you being threatened by that pirate and and she's like, oh, yeah, that was that was hard. She has very very horny hers were actively hard in it. She was like, I didn't like it. I hate it. I hate And then the maid is like, well that will turner. He's a hot guy. And like every single line it's like and there's also this male character. So this one they talk about three different men in the course of twenty second. I think they bring up daddy too. It's every male character we've been introduced is invoked in this one scene. At this point, when we watched scenes like that where it's like, oh my gosh, it's a scene with two women, it's like that this is our sports. We're like, we're like playing bets and stuff, and then like cut the next scene We're like, oh my god, I love that. Then the next scene where the same two characters are talking the maids like the bad pirates, they're here to kidnap you because you're the governor's daughter, and she's like some exposition. Yeah, she's like, go hide and run to the fort. So unclear whether or not that. I think you had a really good point though, where they they're referring to men coming for her, and it's well, men are coming for her, men becoming men are also in pursuit of her right and and we they don't say a masculine term, but we know from context that they're talking about men. So I think I think you're right. Anyways, Yeah, let's say that that does not pass then, yeah, because they're talking about the men coming after them and what they're going to do because the men are coming in to that. Yeah. And then the final scene where you know, well, we got one chance left, let's see how it goes. There's a one more scene where two women talk to each other and it's Elizabeth and Anna Maria and he's like, the Black Peril is gaining on us, and Elizabeth is like, but this is the fastest ship in the Caribbean and antimaries, like you can tell them that after they've caught us, and then they say a bunch of nautical ship, but you can tell them that after they got again them and they and there's no other female character and flat in that term because the only two female characters are speaking to each other. I don't want to give this movie any leeway. I don't think I think that this is we're talking about. I don't know, I don't know. They're directly talking about men coming after them and how they're gonna what they're gonna do. Yeah, I agree, I mean, and when it's this barely of a pass anyways, and we might as well just say it doesn't like if there's this much discussion into like the fact that they discussed you know. Yeah, it seems like this movie does not pass. There are a number of times where two men are talking to each other about a woman so and they're calling her a strumpet most of the time. But I don't know those better or worse. So should we ignore women or should we berate them? Which is bad? Or so? Yeah, let's say that it does not pass the Bacte test. Not entirely surprising, but I was hoping. I mean, some movies have surprised us by having a few, like at least one scene where you're like, okay, cool, like, yeah, they talked about it. I'm offen it gives a little piece of grizzle to chew on in the audience, but not this one. Yeah, and it's so long, right, Yeah. Jeffrey Rush great though, Yeah, yeah, Jeffrey Rush is great. Yeah. You see his penis in the movie Quills. I know. I used to have an Android phone, and so sometimes I just like put my phone and say, like, okay, google Jeffrey Rush's penis, and then it would come up. It's great. Are we ready to rate the movie? Yes? I'm sorry. Did you say, uh, ready to rape the movie? No? Yeah, I learn to floor play the movie. I said, raid dy to rain the movie? Was pr the word I again, I'm having a really time saying certain words today horror instead of her that's literally really that's a really bad And then I said floor play. It's okay, sorry, everyone stay safe. So what I what I'm trying to do is get us to rate the movie on our nipple scale. We have a scale of zero to five nipples where we write the movie based on its portrayal of women. I'll go first. I think this movie gets a too because Elizabeth isn't the worst character. She could be positioned as a damsel in distress who's kind of like has absolutely no bearing on the story except just having to be saved, and she does exist primarily as the romantic interest for a number of different characters. But she does take initiative and do stuff sometimes, and it's she's clearly smart. She has spent a lot of time researching and obsessing over pirates. She gets very horny. I think the only reason she ends up with Will Turner at the end is because she's like, oh he's kind of a pirate, now, okay, I'll fuck him. Yeah he has she changed him, she changed, she fixed It makes him. I would not see. There's no one in this movie I wanted to fix. And I'm a great fixer. You are a great fix I love a good fixer, rapper, love a good project. Did I want to fix? And then like, I don't know, the parts where she is like oh that was kind of cool that she did are just sort of like kind of canceled out by the fact that, like there's so much violence against her, and then she's not that interesting or developed of a I'm not like, oh, let's quote Elizabeth want she because she has all these cool quotes, and let's emulate her into the fact that Kia Knightli is playing her. I mean she doesn't have a ton of range. There's a ton. I mean there's there's a lot of bland ass actors in like Orlando. There are the two leads are boring as fuck, like Orlando Bloom and Night. They're British. Sure, that's Orlando Bloom for sure, has no charisma, facid as hell. I think it's a skilled actress, but she like, she doesn't have any range. She can be in movies that take place from like nineteen hundred all the way back to six hundred as long as she's in like a long dress. And yeah, so I'm gonna give it a two nipples they belong to the monkey named Jack Jack the Monkey. Okay, I'm gonna give it one in three fourth nipples, Um love it. Yeah, I'm gonna say she was incredibly helpless. Wasn't into that, but I do. I did see potential for her character to develop, like later in the series where I was like Okay, she's got some spunk and I could see this becoming an actual person as it goes on. But I'm gonna say one in three fourths. I like, yeah, I don't know if we've ever had a three fourths before we do it in good that's just a nipple with a little assist. Unbit it too hard, Okay, I'll give it too. I agree that Elizabeth Swan is fundamentally a good character. I think if she was played by another actress, she would probably seem like an even more strong character. And there's female characters with potential for more stories, specifically and Maria. Um. So the roots of really able to be developed female characters are here with at least two characters, and it's just not capitalized on in this movie. But I mean, and this is horrible to be like, well, at least they're there. But at least they're there. Um those nipples and give one to Saldanna, one Saldana nip, and then one goofy pirate nip, one of the dumb ones, the one that has a wooden eye. Yeah, I supposed to give the nips away. We just described them. So then we as we're saying, like who these nipples belong to Okay, then one is like a big pink nipple, it belongs to the dad, like a silver pancake. And then another one's like a little tight nipple, and it's going to belong to Giselle nipple very tiny. I do picture of the Dad's nipple as lactating. I don't know why, but I'm like that Dad's got some milk in him because he can stop it up with his wig, because he has the greatest wig of them all. Oh, that's my last comment. So many wigs in this movie. The wout wigs out hogs out, No hogs out in the movie. But wigs are certainly man. What was the wig budget? That's my new question to ask. Guess that wig budget. There had to have been a solid twenty thousand dollars spent on wigs alone. I see that's probably pretty close to being right. Those were high class wigs, because all the pirates are wearing wigs, two out more most of them. Orlando Bloom not wearing a wig. They just like throw some grease on him. Yeah, he sucks. I have seen the second and third of the Pirates movies. Don't remember them, I know I do remember there being another female character who they go to because they're like, we need to bring Barbosa back from the dead, and then she does it. But I don't know if any other female characters like new ones are introduced. I can't. I don't remember. I'd have to rewatch them. I did not see the fourth movie, but this fifth one coming out kire Knightley in Orlando Bloom. I don't think we're in the fourth movie, but they returned for this fifth one. Dead Men Tell No Tales, which is something that Cotton's Pirates says in this movie, and Curse the Black Pearl, so oh yeah, and then Davy Jones. I feel like this this movie series just invokes vague nautical ship throughout, but that's also true to the roller Coaster, just vague nautical ship where you're like, this seems about right. Oh. I would argue this isn't either the second or the third movie. But you see a huge vagina monster Krack is a huge pussy. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. Should it like pussy juice on everyone? It kind of like sneezes. Yeah, that's exciting. It's a female character, right there, I think, so. Yeah, if only she gets it's more of an aura. It's very feminine aura about that particular installment. We should do an episode about the country Bears. This is something I will say over and is it live action or animated? It is live action? Maybe it is. It's pretty much just like let's take the scary animatronics from the ride no one likes, but for ninety minutes it's wild and I'm pretty sure it's like a Smurfette situation where there's like one female. How did we get all these bears? An amazing story. I would just want to say one last thing, and that is booty before booty, which is get that money before getting up boy booty. I've never referred to a man. I guess well. I have been like, oh booty call boys can be Booty's. So yeah, booty before booty. Anyway, Ashley, thank you so much for being here. My goodness, we're having me. Of course, where can people find you on the internet? Follow me on Twitter at Ashley be Roberts right now. Awesome? Yeah, what does he say at the end? He's like something something and really bad eggs drink up an amazing selection to play in the concert band. Also, uh, we have an Instagram account. Now we do. Yes, we have an Instagram. Follow us at bechtel Cast on Instagram. Also follow us on Twitter at becktel Cast. You can listen to us on a bunch of different places SoundCloud, Limpson, iTunes. You're probably already doing that right now. Why do I gotta say it? Cheez Cheez, Louise. You can like us on Facebook. We have a Facebook. You can like us. We read the messages you email us. We read those a little bit less. Yeah, but we can Facebook message if if it's urgent, if it's if it's a feminism emergency. Try Facebook like us and and rate us and review us on iTunes and all that stuff. You said rate right, I said, okay, rate us. But I am going to go and uh initiate some floor play with someone. I gotta go, see you guys later. By