#304 – The Most Iconic Songs According to Science! (With Eddie) + Ashley Cooke on Turning Going Viral on TikTok into A Career + The Biztape: The Shape of The Touring Business

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Speaker 1: M h really loud. Leave it like that, Just leave it on lasted my ear holes out? All right, welcome episode three or four, the most iconic. Oh, there we go. Let's leave all this in. Let people know how hard it is to do this job. It is hard. Should I turn my volume down? It's just so, it's so loud. It's a lot on your ears, Eddie, No, it sounds great to me. Man. The most iconic songs according to science Eddie and I'll talk about that. Ashley Cook on going TikTok viral on accident and a clip from the biz tape of podcast I Really Like and the shape of touring, the touring business they I hope you got subscribed to the podcast after you hear this clip. Just a really good one. Um, all right, New Music Top five which and Eddie rarely sits in for this, but we are in the same room, so I thought, why not come on? Thank you man, I'm right here. Why why not? Uh? Not a lot of music out this week? Because fourth of July? Right, what does that mean? Well, during holidays, people usually don't put out new music specifically on those weekends. See, I would think, like we're going into a big weekend. They probably want some fresh music to take the lake. But I guess that's not the way the record biz works. Not really. I am someone who though I believe that you should put out music on like a Tuesday or any day of the week, right well, because then you're not in that mix of crap. We got seventy four the releases and wait, have we done that? Yeah? Every time. That's why I do it. Noticed that, like it's odd day to release music. It's so smart, and like Netflix does like their drops on Fridays, they do Friday. I saw Disney. Plus that's why our day for Breaking my Bones got moved because we were gonna be that Friday, and then they moved to that next Wednesday. They're like, we're not Like, we're not dumb. We'll put it on a different day so we're not in the mix. So I'm a big believer in But it used to happen on on a Tuesday, that's the accounted record sales Tuesday, and then it was a Friday doing the same thing. But now nobody can there's no accounting really, okay, unless you're trying to win a war for the week you put your song out when nobody else is. That's why I work in the record business, which I don't. I probably am not knowing eighty things right now. Number five Jason Isabel in the four hundred Unit put out Sad but True from the Metallica album Down. No, that's not no, that's interestanding. Oh yeah, this Sabbath True is sad but true. This is the original one that's true. Jam dude, here is Jason Isabel. I hope it's a little definitely got an Elvis black and white, interesting vibe to it. I like it. I mean, I don't think people realize how hard it is to take a song that already has its shape, like Metallica Sava True, and then Nick making it into something completely different. That's really not It's not that easy, how abould it? On? Polka Straight Up? Addlie Himby has a new song out called Heroes. Lanco released their honky Tonk Hippies EP. Here's the title track to that Hippie. Riley Green released a new seventh song EP called Behind the Bar. It has his current single if it wasn't for Trucks, Anybody's daddy get around to man the fences and feed the cows Where the hill He's got an interesting take on songs because he had that song too, like what if Grandpa's never died? He always wants to wish grandpa, but whatever, He always wants to know, like what if? Yeah, like what if trees didn't grow? Probably a deep thinker like that, what if plants weren't green? Because he doesn't look like a deep thinker. He looks like a dumb job. What if the sky was below us? What if? What if? Uh? And here is the title track Behind the Bar, Behind the Bar and the fucking Live, Between the chaps and cars, there's a spot where the Jason Free a small the screen Jack Gates down wearing Louis and jeans. Everybody's living and loving and buzzing love to be stars. Behind the Bar, Johnny Cash released sort of He's Not Alive. I'm going to Memphis. It's from I Never heard Johnny Cash Live album. It happened at the Cares of ball Room. A Ight, and here you go. I'm morning and I'll be gone and I'm going to Memphi. Yeah, I've never been to Chicago, but it must be a mighty fine place. I couldn't get past Tennessee with Mrs Slippy all over my face. I pretty good. That sounds really good. Yeah, pretty good. I was watching this documentary on Netflix about Tanya Tucker and Brandi carl I was talking about her and she was like, listen, Tanyne Tucker kind of doesn't doesn't get the acclaim she deserves because she had some trouble in her life drugs, uh scandal. And she's like, but look at Johnny Cash. Dude went to Jim Dude, is like celebrated for being with June. He cheated. I mean, she nailed it. And I love Don't get me wrong, I love Johnny Cash. He's an Arkansas guy. I loved him as a kid only because he was an Arkansas guy. Now I love him for different reasons. But yeah, Johnny Cash wasn't always great, dude, And she's right. I mean, you can do that with a lot of the legends, Chuck Berrys, the Elvis Pressley's. I mean, these guys live crazy lives. Man. Did you like that episode? Oh did you watch it? Yeah? Yeah, that was great. Pretty I think it just show listen. I've often fought the story of if anyone ever says, well that aint country, they're just not educated because it talks about how Bob Wills and Texas Playboys that he was told that wasn't because he took up a fiddle song and put a band behind him, and pop started playing it like that ain't country, so it went Dolly people. Uh. Porto Wagner was like, Dolly dollyes pop, she's not She's not gonna every You can go through all of them garth. Uh. They talked about how the outlaw movement they just made that up to market some music. They were like, we don't need something to sell records. Everything. Nobody was doing outlaws stuff. Willi Nelson is doing the same stuff he was doing. Nobody liked them. They're like, he's just a nerdy guy, and we just said they put it on one record like three or three or three or four people. They're like, basically he just grew out his hair and and then you have people fighting for like I need our outlaw music back. Guys, you're basically got the Valentine's card, like they just created something and fold you. A few years before that, will he's wearing a turtleneck with like clean cut hair. Willia Nelson did a standards album like right, so whenever honestly me me talking to you because you're not gonna get a bigger history of country music fan than myself. But whenever somebody goes with that ain't country, they're an idiot. They're an idiot. It may not be country as what they defined in their mind, but they've only defined on their mind based on what people have told them. But the history of country music is everybody pushing those boundaries in all directions. You can tell me Dolly Parton a country and that's what she went through. That's what Garth went through, That's what insert anybody who did something a little bit different did did. The first time the electric guitar, the drums were banned from the Grand ol Opry. The first time someone used the drums at the Opery, they were like, they we're not doing this is not country music. The first time they put an amp on a pedal steel, they were like, guys, what are you doing? This is not country music. Electric guitar wasn't not so drums, pedal steel, electric guitar. Bob Will's you go go down the list, what's this Netflix? It's one episode of This is what Sucks Is. They asked me to do that episode and I couldn't do it would have been perfect for that man would have been good on this. And they did ask me to go do it, and I did it because I couldn't get to where they were shooting here in town. I was gone and I never thought it would show up. And I was like, oh, that there's that show they asked me to do. And I watched and I was like, holy crap, is good. And but they have other episodes too. They watched The Boys and Men one. Oh no, that's the only one I've seen. Oh, they're good. The Boys and Men One's great. Te Payne man. I thought the Tea Paine was gonna be born because it's about auto tune and how the guy teamate ant invent a houto tune. He just used it. He figured out what it was. But teammate can really sing um and so his life was pretty terrible for a while, yeah, because people were like, you ruin music and he's like, no, I just used the tool everybody wanted. Everyone does that now. People were he was talking about the when you talk to the wireoofo like Peter Frampton, you us. He's like, that's a tool people use all the time. That The series is great. It's called what this is Pop? This is pop? That sounds really cool. I watched another one too, I can't remember right now, but I watched him on the Flights to fro To and fro To and fro California. But the country Orville Peck, it was interesting because he was the guy that was hosting it. I don't know much about him. I've seen him on stuff. You never I don't know you did never see his face? But have you ever seen his face? Yeah? I think he used to be in a different band. I looked at the time and then he just started wearing the outfit. Interesting guy. I don't know his music though, Is he good? It's not for me? Is it like an alt country? Like alt country? He's Canadian? Oh yeah, well that's cool. Well. I thought he did a great job host in that episode. But he also talked and I think Americana music is country music. I've said that too, like Americana music is country. But he talks about how that kind of came out of a certain space where it was kind of like alt country, which is then turned into Americana and they talked about it. It's a fantastic episode and I was like, I agree with everything. I got co signed and I've been signing for years and people have told me I'm a loser and it's just I'm like the guys, the proof is in the pudding. Like every this happens every five years where something isn't country and you knew who defines it the listeners. Shania Twain not country. I'm not saying that that's what they would say completely. He talked about Winona for a while. She was getting not country, that it's wild and people are idiots. Okay, cool. Uh. Lauren Lane is releasing our first book in the news. It's called Getting Good at Being. You'd be available November two. Chris Stapleton's doing cameo and he'll say whatever you want him to say. Proceeds going to his outlaw state of kind of charity. It'll cost you six hundred bucks. It's a lot of money. M hmm, that's a lot. It's a lot of money. I know he's doing it for charity. I don't know you're gonna get a whole lot of people to her bucks though Garth Brooks sets Nissan Stadium record uh seventy five minutes sold thing out first ever Nissan Stadium in Nashville. Parker McCollum's releasing a debut album next month, his major label debut. Though, don't be confused, he's doing it by himself, killing it by himself, but now he's doing There's a great episode with him, if you want to go back and check it out. Would he be considered a Texas country artist first? If you asked him, I think he would gladly say sure. But he was never a guy that was just gonna stay in Texas. He says that he lives in Nashville now, he was like, yeah, I'm Texas, moved to Austin. Randy Rogers basically discovered me towards that he goes. But I'm not afraid to say I wanted to level up. Yeah, which is different because a lot of the Texas guys they're happy with where they're at. They like to be regional, they like to be where they're from, and they like to be where they're from. But the ones that I know have always given a look if they were getting the opportunity right, I mean, we didn't want more money. I know a couple of those guys down there that are like an outwardly, they're like Texas Country, Nashville sucks, and I know him. They're like, listen, they just didn't work out for me in Nashville. So for me to really keep my base passionate, I go, Nashville sucks, but you know, we had a shot, didn't work out. That's kind of how it is. Um, and not that all of them are, but the couple that I know really well. And then there's also like Green Took It took a stash um right here, Yeah, Eli Young bands here, So you do have people coming from that um. But the again, I think anybody would like to have their meant whatever. If you're a message center, you like to have your message sent out regardless. Books, music are bigger audience, Yeah, because you can play more more money. Um. Let's see Nirvana smells like teen Spirit to say, a billion streams on Spotify. You know what. One of my least favorite Nirvana songs, but the time was good, but I I have no need for it. I don't think I've heard that song in a long time. My favorite Nirvana record is still Unplugged in New York. I know every song listened to it covers the Meat Puppets, it covers. I mean one of my favorites, I'll Die in that will be on my favorite records. So here we go. The most iconic songs of all time have been revealed according to science. Okay, so obviously they did some math and probabilities and figured out the most iconic songs. And I think science is a pretty diff definitive thing, right. At least we know why science is picking things. It's not just what the flavor of the month, or a writer who gets a wild hair and decides they want to put some artists number one just because they want some clicks. Would you agree with that? A computer scientists in the University of London has sought to a platform youl what determines the greatest songs of all time. He's come up with the definitive list of top fifty. We're gonnaok at the top ten and discuss whether or not we agree if they're iconic. According to Daily Mail, Dr Mick Grierson examined a whole host of songs that appeared in Greatest Songs of All Time lists and newspapers and music stations and VH one Rolling Stone. They took into factor beats per minute chord variety, lyrical content, timberal variety, sonic variants, all these things. I have no idea what it means. But that's science, right. I don't half the scientific crap that happens every day. I have no idea why it's happening. I just know that my TV works. I just know that I can stream shows and music. I have no idea how it works. But they did all this, and here are the top ten most iconic songs of all time based on those weird science things, and all the lists that are already putting in places. At number ten, Guns and Roses, Sweet Child of Mine, here you go. We're gonna listen to the whole intro. No, I don't think so. I'd like to, you would. It's like three minutes long. Do you feel like Sweet Child of Mine is an iconic one of the top ten most iconic songs of all time? Yes, especially if you want to break it down by decades. This is an iconic song of the nineteen eighties. What top ten of all time is tough for me, but I definitely can feel the argument for it. I do think it's an iconic rock song, especially when you hear that guitar part with Slash. I mean, I just had this experience with my kids where I was teaching them about guns and Roses, and I mean they heard this guitar solo and they were like, Okay, this is really good. I was never a guns and Roses guy. By the way, Really there's a little before me. You had an older brother I did. That's where I got a lot of that eighties stuff. I didn't at number nine, God Saved the Queen by the sex Pistols. That's not an iconic song to me. I've never heard it. I mean I've heard of the sex Pistols. Yeah, I think the iconic it should almost be. If I play it, everybody should know it. Maybe that's one of those sonic things that the scientists will sign whatever to the crap um. Number eight Rolling Stones, it can't get no satisfaction. Sure, would you say this is their biggest song? You wouldn't know. Let me think what I think it would be. I mean, I guess if you're asking, I think I have to go with Rolling Stones, So I think I think this is it. Yeah. I start always thinking like, what would my parents know? And I think that they would know this more. I was gonna say, like Beasta Burden, but no, I think this is the one. You're right, yeah, I think this is. What about Gloria g l O? All right, well, I don't think it's a known Okay, I think you kind of have to be a Stones fan to know those two. Let me go to Mike. You know this song? Right here? I do know this song? How old do you I am? Twenty nine? Do you know Gloria? No? Do you know Beast of Burden? I do not? Just this one. Bob Dylan like a Rolling Stones at number seven. Listen, I'm gonna agree with most of these now iconic, Yeah, iconic. You like Bob Dylan, Love Bob Dylan. Number six on the list is the Beatles. Hey Jude. The only Beatles song in the top ten. Now to me, I feel like a bigger, more iconic song by the Beatles would be Hold My Hand. So early it kind of set the whole stage when down this. Yeah, it's just that's early Beatles. When you think of the Beatles, you think of them in suits, in the same haircut, twist and shout, although they were bigger way after that when they were hippies. But we think of the Beatles all dressed the same Can't Buy Me Love? Uh Queen at number five, but heman Hapsody most iconic of all time, absolutely and their biggest song, and which which hit number one, I believe twice over two different decades, because when Wayne's World came back out re hit when number one to get Ready and play it again, Ready started playing it again, Billy Jane from Michael Jackson at number four. Do you consider this a rock song? Yes, me too, Eddie van Halen's on the guitar solo. Absolutely yeah, I do consider I think because it's Michael Jackson's people go ays pop, He's king of pop. I think if you took who exactly it was, but you still presented it exactly the same way with the same person, I think that's this is a rock song. I mean, I correct myself. I think that was beat it with Miel with Eddie van Halen. But still no, not but still I'm talking about this song stiff like no, but this is a rock song. Yeah. Oh you two one at number three. I do really love the song. This to me is not even you two's most iconics. I agree with that. I was about to say that I would say whether Without you, yeah, big Big early one would probably be their big iconic song. But having you two on the iconic list absolutely Number two. John Lennon Imagine Imagine pe song has been covered ten thousand times. Still a wonderful song. I wonder when John Lennon wrote it and finished it and they recorded it. If he walked and he was like this a masterpiece, or if he's just another song, it would recorded. It happened to catch. So I just watched a documentary on this and and I think he was in a state of them trying to come up with a song that could help whatever society was going through at that time, and I think that India was going through some problems or whatever. He did write it for some yes, epic reason, and he had uh, an activist from India, I believe, in his house. Dude. This is a great document I think it's on Apple TV. I think it's nineteen seventy, whatever year this was, and the whole documentary about that year in music in that year. UH. And he's talking with this activist from India and they're sitting at his kitchen table and there in the act of us is telling him about like all these things that's happening. He goes very interesting, why I wrote this song? And I feel like this kind of has exactly what you're talking about. And he takes on the piano room and he plays it to him and the guys like, this is fantastic, and imagine, oh, number one? What do you number one? Most? Before I tell you, what do you can? What do you think? If you're just guessing, give me a few number one most iconic rock songs of all time? They kind of pop into your head. I don't know why would I wrote down Staying Alive by the bags. I feel like I don't feel like that's rock. Oh no, disco wasn't rock. I don't think so. But it's hard, so it's hard to argue what isn't it? What isn't rock? Right? But like these guys already, I feel like this is just so iconic, but it's not rock. Okay, So we'll have to go with the king of rock and roll, Elvis Presley. Great he did not make the top ten, but I would have thought, Elvis, what do you think Elvis's most iconic song is hound Dog, Heartbreak hotel Gosh, there's so many. I would go with um it's got it's gotta be heartbreak hotel. Right, I was, I was leaning towards fat Elvis suspicious minds you you go young, young, because I can think of the video on my head, Heartbreak. You're thinking of jail House Rock where they're all in the jail. So I'm stupid. There we go. I mean that opening liquid the drums. Though, you know, you know this is a whole movie, jail House Rock. It's a whole Elvis movie. Apparently Elvis signed a terrible movie deal when he was really young, and he had like committed to like twenty Hollywood pictures and so this is one of them, and he had to do he had to do all the soundtracks for him. Yeah, it was a terrible deal and he could not get out of it. Yeah, I've seen a lot of them. There are so many. Good Are they ever good? No, they're not good. Never. There's one I forget the name of it. But he's a pilot and he comes back and they they they're stuck on this joke that the writers wrote about him being a pilot and he always showed girls to his cockpit, and so in the whole movie, the lines like hey, Josh I think his character's name is like, how you been? Like pretty good? Were you still flying? I got fired? What happened? I invited a girl in my cockpit and they say this one liner like twenty times in the movie, and you know it's like they're like, this is gonna hit real good, but it's so dumb. Yeah, invited a girl into my cockpit and they fired me. I would think maybe I know the number one, but I would have probably guess led Zeppelin, like Stairway to Hell. Of course it's not it, Oh it's not. But I think that would have been a big one. Zeppelin, the Beatles, I would picked their biggest song and the Rolling Stones already not the Rolling Stones. Okay, Pearl Jam, now that didn't Nirvana? Okay, the number one song is Nirvana smells like teen spirit back massive song you know in Kurt Cobaine him dying as romanticized that band so much. I feel bad for David Girl. I want to hear him do interviews because he always has to talk about Nirvana and Kurt and yeah, have you seen the drama with Courtney Love Lately? She's coming out just kind of just saying she's tired of people saying that she's the reason why he killed himself. Do you know why she's saying that because they released some old like FBI CIA FBI probably where some of the guys were questioning if she had anything to do with it. Oh, I didn't know that. She's defending and so. But Dave Girl always has to talk if Dave Girl is just food fighters. He's one of the biggest rock stars in America has ever had the end. But because he was in Nirvana and was a drummer and was a drummer with Kurt Cobain, who people now romanticize as the greatest poet of the nineties, he always has to talk about that, and he's got to be like stuff dang man. But he does. He does a wonderful job, even though they didn't get along for a part of it. But that's that's just a band. That's just a group dynamic in any part um. But Nirvana smells like teen Spirit. I was talking to somebody recently, who is it was a music critic. Maybe I was doing an interview somewhere. I don't who doesn't haven been you? I don't know. I don't think it was. I don't think it was he was talking about it. He was like, hey, he's a Karkoman. Wasn't gonna stay in that band. He was like, at this point, you know, ten years later, Kirk Cobain's doing crappy solo stuff. They probably would have got back with them, But it's not like Nirvana was going to be something because they put out in Utero, you know, they it wasn't like that. He died right after that record. Next record were the four albums? Well they see I listen to Bleach that was before never mind, um, but I don't know. There was another one after that that wasn't a live one, could have been Mike. Do you see over there? Three studio albums, three students to the joint. Hey has write about something on this one. Look at me? But see, I don't know. The list is cool, but I feel like you don't need science to tell you that these songs are all iconic. Well, science screwed up on wherever that sex pistol song? Science, Come on, I'll be honest with you about that. Are there? You go? Those are the most iconic songs according to science, most of them according to people. But they did factor in people's list as well. Yeah, so it's kind of people's lists and some dumb you know, probabilities and the theory and the pearl jam in there. But okay, and how to Counting Crows not making Let's be honest, isn't that the one band that's really losing out here? Counting Crows? All right here with Ashley Cook. Good to meet you in person? Yeah, that got you. I think we've only talked on the phone, right, Yeah, I think so that one interview for the one time. That's one interview. So I think what I had talked to you about a lot and we'll get it out of the way now. Is and TikTok because I just see you as more than that person. I think, than the than the TikTok now a great way to be the person people know. But I think after a bet, you gotta go, and you have to go. Man. I wish people would only stop associating me with TikTok, you know, honestly, no, because it gave me such a huge platform in the beginning that I love it and I still use it to this day. I still post almost every day. Well I use it and you should write you should. But I think as an artist, people start to get pigeonholed like content creators get well, he's only a YouTube person or he's only but you know, for you. The first time we talked to thank he's actually really good, you know, better than just making TikTok videos. And so I was really excited to play your stuff on you know, two different shows that that I program, which is The Women of My Heart Country and I think Mike, we just featured last week on The Big Countdown, didn't we? We did? I mean, guys, seriously, thank you so much. I'm still independent, so y'all doing that genuinely changes everything for independent artists. So thank you guys so much. But honestly, I think the music should translate past whatever platform you started on, right, So to not get pige and hold it as a TikTok artists just make music that translates past that. I guess that's my way of thinking. In and TikTok is just another way to reach more ears and more eyeballs, So why not use it, you know, and use everything you possibly can exactly whenever you started. Now, you guys didn't live there, right, We didn't know most people. I think I thought that at first everybody did did you rush, because I wouldn't even wanted people to think you didn't live there. I just played along there for a while. We kind of, I don't want to say, like we've played along. But I think the whole idea of a content creation house was started with the Hype House. Right in the high Pause. People were all influencers and actors and dancers, so all they did all day long was create on TikTok and YouTube and all these platforms. So they lived together because it just made the most sense. With six one five House, it was started in the middle of the pandemic, so we saw each other whenever we could, but we couldn't live together. Didn't really make any sense to live together. And we still get together and create and and do all that together, but we never lived together in those Are you guys still making stuff as six one five House? We are? But I think just naturally as the world opened up because six was started in a pandemic, it's just now artists are going and touring and signing record deals and and crushing it outside of what the pandemic was, that naturally we can't make as much content um. And also, again we are artists, were all writers and artists, and we tour and we play music. So unlike the high House and most content creation houses, we can't just spend all day every day creating for social media. Um so we still create sometimes together, but it's just not as much as we could. Did you sign up? I'm sure you did to make money in the little program where they give you a couple of bucks for every ten thousand streams you get or whatever, which thing like the creator five. Yeah, yeah, did you do that? I don't know. I think I did, remember I did? And I have my TikTok following. Isn't extremely huge? You have like half a million followers something like that. I don't know, it's pretty big. I don't. I don't post on TikTok a whole I did for like a week, and I'm on TikTok more than everything else, but I don't post a whole lot. But and I would have videos out getting to three four million, I get like dollar Rady was like this sucks. So I've learned my hack to this. Maybe I shouldn't say this, but I'm going to say it. On live streams. I've started to turn people over to Venmo, so I'll be on a live stream and I'll be like, hey, if you guys want to hear a song that you want to hear a shout out whatever, it is just my venmo is at Ashley Cook. But know me, however much you want, every much you can and I'll play your song. And that's how I've started to kind of make a virtual tip jar online. The Creative Fund is awesome for some people, but for me, that's not really how i' gonna pay the bills. So it's like, might as well do you make okay money when you go here's my venmo you guys, I mean, yeah, it's hit or miss, just like every live show would be. Can you got a couple hundred bucks? Yeah? Yeah? Which what's the most you've ever done on the live streams? Okay? So my friend Roman Alexander, I don't know if you know who, he's a great artist in town. He always will get all my live streams and like, bet people, hey, you won't ven mohr five hundred dollars, you won't venmoh yes. And I'll literally make like a couple hundred bucks for like twenty minutes on alive because my friends like jokingly help out and stuff. Too um, But I make I mean I make a decent amount. It's you just gotta really work for it. You have to know how to be savvy with it, I guess is the way to say it. My fiance's parents were in town and we went to Tutsi's last night, and they've never been. I don't really want to go to Tutsi's been there the first five years old in town a lot um, but we went and they had not seen how the Tutsis vibe works where there's two bands, one on each side, you know, and you tip them they play a song. But now you can go up and actually scan the code, yeah and tip the BNMO. I mean yeah. I think the pandemic just taught a lot of people a lot of stuff about the virtual world that we can live in. But it's not about the money at the end of the day, you know, it really is. I know that's like the political answer, but genuinely, it's not. It's about getting people to relate to your music and get it out there. Because somebody out there has not heard Justin Bieber's music, you know, so everybody's always working to get people to hear their music. So what is your story. You can't you come from where? Kind of all over the place. But before Nashville, I was in South Florida. What do you mean all over the place? And why? So my dad's job, he was in corporate and I was in music. Since I was eleven years old. My sister and I used to be in a duo together. I just kind of traveled down the country growing up. I think I lived in nineteen different homes before I was eighteen, So just homes. Is it because you were playing music or because he was, you know, moving around kind of both? Kind of both. It was always a little bit of both. Corporate took him all over the country. So and you and your sister were what kind of duo country du Yeah, what was the name? It was called the Locketts. And did you guys ever come to Nashville before you came to Nashville all the time, So I pretty much grew up on music row. I was riding with like Jeremy Bussy and Bridge at Tatum and like incredible number one writers when I was like fifteen years old. So I came here for the first time a little over ten years ago. And how did you get in a room with them? If you're just a teenager from out of town. Just the music. I guess it translated. I was in l A. And I worked with like some people out in l A. And then I brought us over here and it was just, you know how it goes. I don't know how it goes. I don't I'm not cool enough to know how anything goes. Honestly, I don't even know. To be honest, I think I was a kid just kind of being put in rooms, which is the beauty. And then I have at of being a kid um. But from what I can remember, the music we made just kind of translated and got us in the rooms with the right people, and that's just how that happened. Then I went to college at Belmont. So you moved here for school, yes, and stayed here. Yes? So you moved here for school knowing you were going to stay here. I don't really know. I moved here for Belmont UM just because again I had grown up in Nashville and I knew of the school. I loved at the campus. I thought it was incredible, and I just loved Nashville like a home away from home. Went to Belmont for music business, ended up transferring into communications and marketing. So I studied nothing to do with music, which you shouldn't, right, I mean, honestly, I don't know. Listen. I still studied a lot of things, including what I do now radio, television, but I didn't need to. I did the best thing. About. The best thing you can do in a creative space is just freaking get into it. Okay, true, but to each their own and and then have them to fall back on when it doesn't work. True, And that was kind of my mentality. And also because I had grown up in music my whole life. Not I mean, the Bellmont Music program is genuinely incredible, it really is. But I just had been in so many rooms and learned so much that going in and intro to publishing class my freshman year, I was like, wait, this is outdated info, this is different. I've been in this room. I know what's going on. So it just was it's it's hard for them to keep up with exactly what's going on. Um. But I loved communications and marketing. It was the best because also I use it every day in my career right like communications on stage right now, marketing with TikTok. It all comes to play. So and then I just stayed in Nashville after that. So when you stay, is that I'm going to be a songwriter? Is I'm gonna be an artist? Am I going to do one before the other? Like? What was kind of your mindset at twenty two years old? I mean, does anybody know what they're doing at years old? Um? I think I was even twenty one? I was when you finished college? Was the dream? Well? Okay? So I studied communications and marketing again my senior year, I was already interviewing for communications jobs. I kind of was like, hey, music was my childhood thing. I still have a huge passion for it, but let's just think about something different. Let's just like entertain the idea of going down a different route. So I almost got hired to a company in Nashville for communications and marketing. And then at the same time, like the same month, I applied for the Country Showcase. Do you know what that is? Okay? So at Belmont there's you know what that is? Yeah? I think like like Cassie Ashton, she wonted Brad Paisley, Florida Georgia line. I mean, so many amazing artists have won this competition. So I applied kind of on a whim, being like, whatever, you know my senior year bucket, Let's let's just do it. It's always been a really cool thing to go to and watch. I got in and I ended up a winning competition, won the Whole Thing too, One the Whole Thing. I was one of the only non music majors to win that competition. Do you have to do an original song? It's two originals, one cover? So what what cover? Did you do? The Middle by Marion Morris? It was the best. It was so much fun. Did you play it yourself band? Do you have a full band? It's huge. It's like three thousand people in an arena. It's massive. Yeah. But so I won that, and then I graduated and I was like, Hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna try music. I'm gonna I'm gonna give it a go as a solo artist for the first time in my life. I'm just gonna do it. COVID hit like right when that happened, and so I went down to quarantine with my family in Florida and my friend sent me a video of Spencer Crandell, one of my other friends who's on TikTok and it was some challenge that he did. I did the challenge and it got like two million views overnight and it just kind of started from there. So it was not my plan to do, I mean nearly any of this, let alone what's happening now this past year, I mean it's just been crazy. So two things. One, who is Spencer crandell? These I cut your artists big TikTok or too, Yeah, amazing artists too? And then too what was the Channel lunch? It was called the lay Me Down Challenge. It was like, you know the Sam Smith song A Me Downs and that song, so it's the bridge of that song and you like basically just go a whole octave up and sing. So it's a singing challenge. I was like, no, I don't know, Like TikTok, you know, I've I've loved this app for a long time, but I don't know if I meant to be a creator on it, Like who does know that? You know, it's it's the market that gets to decide who's going to be a creator on the app. So I posted the video no makeup braids in my hair fresh out the pool, like had zero expectations and it just completely blew up and I just caught the bug. So and so then you were in and I was in, And then how do you become just into all right, guys, we're gonna organize something here, and we're gonna get we're gonna put something together so we can actually market ourselves, which is a really smart thing to do. Thank you, honestly looking back at so wild, because it had to have been a god thing, honestly, because I had watched the high pass for so long, and I had had friends like you know, Cooper Allen and Thomas Mack and people that were really big on TikTok and had this giant following they were building through country music and just following trends. My friend Chris Rudiger and I just kind of I called him one day and I was like, Hey, why is nobody doing this? At the time, there was only you know, six or seven country people really on Sicktok. Since then, of course it's really kind of blown up and come into the country space, but there was nobody collaborating on the app really at all, um, and so we just kind of found people, texted d M and got the people that were really crushing it through country on the app to come together and it was born. The six and five hours happened, so that Mac is the first country president I ever saw on TikTok. Which video did you see? Do you remember? He's hysterical. I just remember him being funny and being one of the only, if not first, country guys I would see, just sitting there with acoustic guitar playing funny songs. Yeah, he's hysterical, and he's still on. Everybody is still on the app. I think just because the world opened up. It's like, you know, it's an amazing thing because a lot of us are also still independent. Most of us are still independent, so it's crazy to see how much has happened from the app and now translating into the real world. I mean, these just kids that were creating videos on this app, and now we get to live our dreams. So it's really cool. Has anyone recognized you from TikTok just walking down the street, you would be mind blown. It blows my mind. I'll go down to like Broadway hang out because you know, I'm single in twenty four so I'm like whatever, I'm gonna go out on Broadway. I get stopped all the time. For photos and oh my gosh, you're the girl from TikTok. Are you actually cook or heard yourself on the highway just on the Bobby Bone Show, Like they'll just say this stuff all the time. I'm like, this is so crazy. So yeah, it happens a lot. That's pretty cool. Because I saw someone from TikTok somewhere and I was in California. We were doing American Idol or something, and I I kind of no, but I kind of geeked out a little bit. And then I caught myself and I was like, why am I geeking out at somebody watched two videos? But you're right, it doesn't matter how you're you get consumed. Yeah, Like, once you find somebody you like and you're taking them through radio, Netflix, TikTok, it doesn't matter. Then you've kind of become a fan. Absolutely absolutely, And that's what's so cool. I was at my gym like two days ago and this guy walks up and it's like, okay, I hate to keep out and be a fan girl, but like, I just love your music. I was like what He's like, I love under It's so good. I was like, what, so it is? I mean You're right. It's it's working and people are consuming it and there I hope falling in love with my music as much as they are my personality or whatever that brings them to my page. So it's awesome. So you're going out on your first tour, like your first going through all the difference with right, Yeah, so what's that about. I'm pumped. It's nine days in September. It's my first ever tour. I don't even know any of the details. Probably a meeting after this to figure out the details, because I might just take me on a bus somewhere and I'll show up and play. Um, but I'm I'm freaking pumped. It's gonna be so fun that The rare thing is that that I see from these dates is that they're all kind of strung together. Like when I go out, I'll do Thursday, Friday Saturday or Friday Saturday. They come home, and that's pretty typical of a country music tour. However, this is I mean a typical where you're out, Like you said, basically, you know the tenth of the twenty three, but nine you're playing nine shows and days, so you're just gonna live in a bus. I don't really know what the travel plan is yet. I'm not quite sure. I mean, first tour you, I'm probably just gonna get chucked in a van somewhere, and you, honestly should you should. I think artists should have to come up and go van first, learn the struggle. Absolutely crappy bus. See it's interesting though, because not that I don't think I should do that still, because I definitely should, But I was touring when I was a kid, to fairs and festivals and stuff like that, so I have kind of doesn't count count. You got to go to the struggle and hopefully you make enough and you're opening fee to pay for your whole trip. Have to be like how am I going to afford this? And we're the same clothes three nights in a row, and but then say, no, this is my artistic style. I just but you have to go through that struggle. Then you appreciate it so much more when you don't have to anymore, and you look out for the people that are doing it, Like I have some friends ish who kind of got to skip that step because they blew up a little too quick, so they don't quite empathize and understand what they can see and they can sympathize a little bit, but they don't understand. And I feel like they're there la sacking that empathy to to go hey, like I got you. Here's what I got you, because I've been through it too. Yeah. Maybe, but if they gave you a jet, take the jet. Okay, I'm not no, put me in a bus. Who would you say that you listen to a lot as a kid, because we're all influenced by something. Who would you say you listen to as a kid where you're like, all right, this is not who I am. But their sounds definitely kind of took me somewhere for sure, um honestly. So. I moved to Florida when I was fifteen, and I remember there was this one amphitheater that we all would go to and I would obsess over the artist that went there. It was the Cruise an Ampithater. I don't know what it's called now, but it's the West Palm am The Theater. And I remember being there for the Luke Bryan, the Jason al Dean Tour Florida Georgia line. I mean, Dan and Shay Like I just loved them, especially throughout High school. They kind of shaped my love for Lyric and Rascoe Flats obsessed with them. I've now become friends with Jada Marcus, which is so cool. Um. But I mean, honestly, I just loved the way that he showed up to a show and everybody just feels the same emotion. And it seems like all of those artists knew how to like grab that from them in the crowd. I love that. Also, growing up, my parents played Motown all the time, so I was a big Motown fan. Um. But that's basically like big list of who I loved. I gotta have a Kolbe vibe to you a little bit. I think it's the blonde California. You know, maybe maybe that's it too. And she lived like five minutes away, so I can just call her up. I mean, I haven't met her yet, and I would love to. I loved her growing up to like Bubbly was one of my favorite songs. You guys moved from Californa from Florida to Nashville. Did you you came by yourself? I write your sister? Yeah. So my sister is a year older than me, um, and she went to a different school and then transferred into Belmont, but she she went to Mallma with me as well. Is she here kind of she's like all over the place, the lockets are no more, no more Reunion show. I mean maybe, honestly, I think that she just so part of the reason why I even got into entertainment was because she moved my family out to l A because she wanted to get into acting. And so I just kind of surrounded by the young Disney crowd and just all these people in l A. And I was like a sporty tomboy, had no reasoning to be in music, but just fell in love with the entertainment business because I was around it so much and all my friends were in it. So now she after she graduated from college, she was in a finance job for a little while, but then she realized that she really wants to do acting again, so she went from music to acting and she's not pursuing that, so she's crushing it. The young Disney crowd to talk, what is that? What do you mean? Like? Who? Well, I mean, I don't know. You kind of just threw that up there, the young Disney Are you hanging out with Disney stars in l a um. I mean, that's honestly kind of a weird part of my story too, because I was like really really good friends with all of the young Disney crowd when I was young, like the Cyrus family, like you know, the Livado family, the Hudgens family, like all of them. They were like my my friends and my schoolmates and my neighbors, and I just don't really think of it as then like the Disney crowd, because they were just my friends. We would make YouTube videos together and go to soccer and ice skating together, and that was my friend group, which is maybe why I love this industry because I feel like there's nothing too glitz or glam. It's always just like the real music and the meaning behind it all because I grew up around the craziness and saw what it did to them, you know what I mean. Was your sister a Disney actor? No, she wasn't. They were just friends because of the area. We were all friends because of the area. You were in Disney. Okay, when you said young Disney, I thought you were in Disney stuff. You like, throw me, throw me for a loop there, So you weren't acting, You weren't doing Disney stuff. You just not gonna be living. I did some commercials. You're not telling me something. I don't know. It's so weird. I feel like again I was a kid. I was just like Dragi areas. I did we commercials a while growing up. We like w I I like the nunchucks and stuff. Yeah, what would you do in these commercials? Um, I don't even remember. I would like play with the nunchucks. I would There was like a monkey in one of them. I did some print modeling. I've just always been an entertainment since I was a kid. So and we like knew a lot of like the Disney casting directors and auditions and stuff. But um, yeah, when did you know you could sing and people would actually care that you could sing? Did they care? Now? I'm getting um oh gosh. I got into a music like performance class when I was ten years old. Um. I wrote my first song when I was eleven. And I remember this guy Jonathan George, who was a really good friend of ours and he like coached us when we were younger. Um, he put us on a stage at this place called the Mint in l A. I don't know if you're familiar with that. I don't even know if it's still a place anymore. Um, But we played and I performed my first show when I was eleven, and people like knew the words to the music that I was putting out and it was like insane. The music wasn't that great? I mean, I was eleven, you know, you start somewhere, but yeah, I mean I think that was when I really fell in love with performing, And to this day, performing is still my favorite part of this. I mean, there's so much to love about music, but genuinely getting on a stage and just seeing people people's reactions to what you're saying, that's like, by far the best part of it all. And how has it been you say, your independent still, Um, how has it been you know, trying to find a team like your team, your your I wouldn't say forever because changes in its fluid, but your like established team record management. Like, what what's that process like for you right now? Honestly, it's a lot of fun, um, because you know, I'm so excited to eventually be able to partner with the right team. I really am, um. But honestly because of people like you and the Highway and DSPs like Spotify and iTunes and Apple and Pandora and all these places. Like I've had a really really great year and I feel like I've just been knocking down my goals one by one independently, and of course having the right partner is a big goal of mine. But I'm in no rush, which is the really fun part. So it's actually the best place to be because the more you go into a situation with knowing who you are and some data behind you, the less they can tell you who to be exactly. And I get to go on a tour independently. I feel like there's there's so much that has happened this past year, and it's it's truly mind blowing. I mean, yesterday I made a video on my Instagram talking about that because I was like, this week is crazy, you know, like y'all put me as your spotlight artist, which is so so cool, thank you, by the way, And it's just been just been crazy. It's like so much has happened, and um, I like to think it's just because the music is translating, and that's the bottom line. Mike, what clips do we have over there? We have all of them. Okay, let's walk. How about do we have the new single that comes at June five. Okay, this is already drank that beer. Here you go bad Street and how hard together and we don't know better luck we can we aim it's too baddy. We already drank. Excited about that when to come out? I'm so pumped for that to come out. I cannot wait. How long did you record that? Um? I want to say like a month and a half ago with Jimmy Robbins, who's phenomenal. Yeah, he's amazing. Here is under which was featured on The Country Top thirty and The Women of Iron Country. I'm talked under the media, last son good as thy faths to do, and me there underneath the sheet someone sweat under the run and singing under the sun. So I don't understand anywhere. Get all. Let's play Sunday morning kind of Saturday night that I remember this one was released. It pretty well the download chart for a little bit. Yeah, it was awesome. Here you go, I need Sunday lorn Saturday night. But the wood then see speaks that the time last star lay fast to shout a little deeper than all that I need Sunday morning kind of Saturday night. And then this is the first time that I knew you. We played this on the Women of By Our Country. It's been a while now, but Jealous of the Sky I think that's when we talked. That was also the first song I ever had play on a radio station. Is that right? Were you able to hear it when it played? Did you find the Yeah? I was. I was down in South Florida, UM in my friend's car and we played that song. Which is actually so backstory on that song. My friend passed away and he was from South Florida and that's why I wrote the song. So I was in South Florida when I heard my song on the radio for the first time, thanks to you guys. So it was crazy. Here is Jealous of the Sky. You get to be crag the season change. You can sell all the time like it's just a day, let the rain out when you feel like you won't cry. Now you get to say hello, Well, I gotta say good back. I'm Jealous of the Sky. That's a really good one. Thank you. I still feel the same, like kind of like goose bumps with that song that I did the first time, thank you, and before I hit it, I kind of forgot about it. Until I hit it, and I was like, yeah, because you listen, I hear ten thousand songs to day, but you always remember how certain songs make you feel, sometimes more than remember the words of the song. Absolutely, What's I mean? That's the whole beauty of music, you know. I mean, that's the fun part about TikTok is. You know, my manager and I always crack up because I'm like, oh, this song is the one, this song is gonna hit, It's gonna go viral, and then like it doesn't flop, but it doesn't do as well as I hope it would because people don't connect the same way that I wanted them to or whatever. So it's it's fun to see because I could connect so deeply to something, but somebody else doesn't. And that's just the beauty of music, you know. Well, and just art. I mean, I put up some stuff. I feel like it's gonna be amazing. It's gonna maybe people can laugh at this. It's gonna be great. And then I'll put up my dog will like lick the wrong hole on my nose to social media is happening. Well, listen, I'm glad we finally got to meet as well. I saw you drive in with your big jeep, yep jack jacked up a little bit. It's jacked up. It's three point seven five. No idea what that means, but that's something. All I know is it look a little higher and a big wheels on it is there. I gotta assume the gas is not cheap for that thing. It's not cheap. When the gas crisis happened, I was like, I'm so how long you had a cheap um since I was sixteen? Say, all the same one, same jeep. Yeah, I've just you know, gotten it all jacked up and done a bunch of stuff too. I'm still like to this day, I'm like saving my money because I'm like, I'm gonna go do more to my jeep. I'm obsessed. So the goal is to do more to that jeep, not to get a different jeep. Absolutely, and I make him last. You know, I had a chair. I had a Jeep for a while, and I felt like if I couldn't drive it with the top off, I didn't want to drive it. So I kept the top off. But then I got caught in a storm once and I got it was a bad storm and I'm driving my glasses are getting soaked, and I'm like, oh, this is it. Time to go trade in the jeep. And the jeep that's so funny. That's why I had the hard top because being from Florida. Living in Florida, I mean every hour you could have a thunderstorm and then just complete beautiful, you know, nine degree days. So I have the hard top so I don't have to worry about that. We had a hard top two and Jake oh And bought me a like some sort of contraption that takes the top off and you sit it on it. It just hangs from it and you drive under and puts it on it. But I was like, I don't screw this. I never put it up. I was like, I want to have the top off. I want to drive the jeep like I'm supposed to. But then again, first time I got wet, I was like, I can't do this. I don't want to do this anymore. It's so worth it, though. I want to get a Bronco eventually. I love Broncos and not like the new with the new ones are dope, but like the old lake are the really cool ones. You don't know at three point seven five is, but you know the year of the Bronco that you'd want, you know, I have very all right, you guys, let me let me promote a couple of things here on TikTok. She is the Ashley Cook, which is cook with a knee but Instagram same huh, same s the Ashley Cook that was Ashley Cook already taken it was And I've d m the girl that has Ashley Cook so many times and she doesn't respond. I'm like, come on, really, I have to have Mr Bobby Bones because some goob will not give me Bobby Bones. And it wasn't even using I tried to get Twitter, I got, didn't use it. Who has it on Instagram? Now? Have we even looked at that a lot? I don't know. I think it's a random let's see. I'm curious about this because on on Twitter, you're saying on Instagram, if I search Bobby Bones, do you even see who it is? My? Yeah, a blank page with a D and fifty four followers. Blank at least like a mother of three kids that post all the time, So like it's hard for her to give up her account, but like, come on, hasn't posted since. But the problem is with that is? I am Mr Bobby Bones. So if I change it now and I don't have all of the because I'm Mr Bob Bones and everything. Yeah said, it's just you know, cohesiveness, keep it, but I should have that right. Yeah, it's a fun story too, is it though that I can never get the freaking page? Does it sound that fun to me? Her fun stories? That's not one? Ashley Cook follower the Ashley Cook on Instagram and TikTok The new single already drank that beer is June. She's gonna be out with Breeland. Um, just go to the just Ashley Cook dot com. See if you go to the Ashley Cook dot com, I would have already so Ashley Cook dot com for all the dates and hey good luck. Is I feel like this is the the early stage of a long career and um, a really cool life for you. That means a lot coming from you, so so thank you. Hang out, work hard, surround yourself with good people, and good things will happened to you. Yes, sir. And you know I saw that jeep come in it for a second I thought I should get another Jeep and then had a flashback till next or I do not want another gee no, but for real, thank you guys so much for spotting me and just playing my music in general. It really means the world. I hope you guys know that if you suck, we wouldn't do it. Thank you. A lot of good people that sock and we don't do it. So if you suck, we wouldn't do it. So I just know it. That's all you all right, Ashley Cook, everybody, thank you. All right, I'm gonna do this. I want to share with you guys a segment from our new podcast here on the Nashville Podcast Network. If you love music, so we're putting in here. It's called the Biz Tape. It's a music business podcast. You're gonna love it. You can learn a lot. It's fun one and also you'll be smarter if you listen to it. And this is them talking about touring and if the music business is bouncing back, etcetera. Here's a clip from the Biz Tape. Our second point. As Colin has beautifully transitioned us into planning for pandemics, so many leading scientists and experts have stated that COVID is not a surprising occurrence as ecosystems shift with climate change allowing for there to be a more innate risk of future viruses to disrupt the world and its economies. Do you have any more fun facts for these? Yah, it's so really light stuff, right. So we've seen how this past year and a half has completely demolished the music industry, and as people in the music industry scrambled to get back into the swing, it makes you wonder could we have handled this better? And will we plan for the next one. So there's a couple of things that we need to like look into. So first let's analyze the industry's reaction during the pandemic, and these are kind of the four big things that we saw during the pandemics. So toward dates being canceled, industry professionals being fired as many businesses liquidate and conserve money, artists and their and their teams trying to figure out how to make money on the internet or even promote, and venue suffering as the pandemic is continuously drawn out and unable to receive federal aid or even charity aid in time. So there's about a million other things. But Colin, do you think that the music industry will plan for the next pandemic, and if so, what kinds of things do you think would be important for the industry to focus on. So can I go down your points of like, okay, so a toward dates being canceled. I definitely think that will be planning for in the future. I think there will be more contingencies in terms of service, especially when it comes to tickets and refunding. Um, I feel like, not to be like bad big business, but I feel like a out of businesses gotten a choke hold of being like, if we don't refund these people's tickets, they are going to crucify us into the ground. And so I feel like I could see a giant company like a ticket master or an event right being like just quietly writing in the terms of service. If this happens, then we get to keep the ticket money, so you know, and so I mark right, I could totally see that or some sort of thing where it's like it probably wouldn't be that agreed, just it would probably be more like after thirty days if it cannot be if it cannot be open due to government regulate, you know what I mean, or something more legal ease. So I feel like that will be an industry professionals being fired or I will also add furloughed uh from many businesses. I feel like in my personal experience, I was furlowed from my job with audio and stuff like that because I worked in touring. So I had a very good experience with that. Uh. They were very supportive, they worked with me. That's not everybody's case, um, and so I feel like we have not hit the repercussions of that. And I've talked about this in the show. A lot is touring and touring professionals and the ability for that clientele to come back. We have not hit the apex where I think we're getting to the point, especially now where these tours and shows you know that are all these arenas are booked up, like we're going to talk about. But we haven't got to the point where it's like these things in three weeks. We need somebody to mix. Well, all your mixers have been gone, they got a different job, they did this, they've been gone for a year. You're gonna have to get somebody whose a little bit more not as experience, and that might suffer for customers and stuff like that. I feel like if you see that happen a lot of businesses they're gonna, you know, pony up, and um, then we got artists in their teams trying to figure out how to make money on the internet or even promote. That definitely has completely changed. Um. People are coming up with revenue streams that they had no idea before. And I would also like to add I feel like everyone says that, but I would also like to importantly add people are remembering and noting income streams that they should have paid attention from this entire time, like what they should have been focusing on before, or at least had like some form of handle. I mean, we had our buddies that green from s sack on here, and we're talking about p r o s and all these people basically coming up going where's my pr O money? I heard there's this magic pr O money. Well, it looks like you should have been keeping up with that for a while because it could be in a black box somewhere where you know, or something like that. And so we've seen that, and then on the new front, we've seen you know, Patreon is you know, catapulted a lot of artists up live streaming in general. The idea of that, I could not imagine the point pointing to someone in tent nineteen and going hey, you should just do like a live stream set. They'd be like why why why could like I'd be making more money right playing Broadway and yeah, exactly, and so like what's the point? And then last its venues suffering as the pandemic is continuously drawn out and not receiving federal aid. I think personally, this is probably the biggest one we will not learn from. I think there are a lot of venues, especially with how this federal aid money has gone through, that will die, that will be closed, and we will just forget that happened, and people will just get new jobs and they will go to either a different industry or they'll collapse into different venues, or they'll start their own venues. But I don't think the general public or the government has really taken back to the impact that it has happened. Like obviously it's like we're all suffering, but like specifically on venues, I feel like the general public hasn't really been like, oh, yeah, if your job is to attract people every day of your life, the pandemic and future viruses are going to really mess that up and so yeah, I think that's probably out of your four points here, I think that's the one that is going to go down the drain. I agree. I think it also venues are definitely taking note after this year of of like, you know what, it's it's one of those things where the arts is always under funded. It's always the last thing to get funded, and to to come up with a way in order to leverage to get federal aid money in the future I think is imperative. Um, But I agree with you. I think people, I honestly think the industry is going to forget. Has happened to a certain extent, especially if it's getting insane buzz and if things go back to normal and we start having like very very high earning years. I think that you know, the industry does that all the time. You know, they have we have like these huge high earning earning years and then they have a disruptor come in and they go, well, shit, it's the disruptor's fault that I'm fucked up right now, you know. I kind of agree that, and I kind of don't. I think we've seen I think in this case, this was like this was out of it seems like for a lot of Yeah, it seems like for a lot of people, it's more of like this happened, but it's something that we need to learn from, right and we and and so like I feel, I completely agree is people have this mentality of this happened, now it's over, you know what I mean. It's like this was like a nineteen seventeen bird flu and now, well a hundred years from now, maybe we'll have another one that's that bad or something. So it's very specific. That's the last really big pandemic. I feel like that hit America on a wide scale. So that's what I was saying. And so I not know that I do fun, but we also teach social studies here. Um, but I guess going on of how the music industry now is coping with the pandemic, there's something that's very interesting. So we've all seen a bunch of uh, I mean concerts happening in our towns. We've all seen Venie's booked up, sold out. You might even see some people announcing their tours, but guess what, their arenas are all booked up. So as more and more shows begin happening, arenas are in an awkward position as a traffic jam. Of artists have begun attempting to book more shows than the arenas can handle, making tour planning more difficult than it has been in previous years. So acts who have pushed dates out to next year are wanting slots before one is up because they're seeing everybody is selling out their shows and in making a bunch of money and uh and even setting some records. Um, So they're trying their best to just grab those dates and like push them up a little bit further. You know, they they'll take a pay cut right to get that date up higher. But many talent agents are having to navigate having trouble also navigating COVID protocols depending on each state in their tours. So right now, as a talent agent, you have this specific region, you have the Northeastern region right that you're booking your talent for it, and you have to call up all these arenas and your artists decided, hey, we're gonna just book him. That's going to be it, and you gotta come and you gotta be like, hey man, he wants he wants to do it this year. Here's kind of our deal points. We're going to change, like, I don't know, we'll drop our our advance to this amount of money or something. If you can get us in this slot and we think we can sell out your show, well, the venue has the awkward thing of saying, well, tough luck, buddy, because I got like thirty other people in front of you, so there's nothing much I can do for you. And would you like a Thursday night? Would you like a Tuesday after Tuesday afternoon? Yeah? But this has also because this this I guess traffic jam is also caused because many artists under Live Nation a G are expect Tinco to go on tour and are even getting restless because like a G and Live Nation can't book them. And then some artists have even seen the trend and decided to hold off a bit before announcing tours due to the traffic so they don't have to backtrack. So it's gonna be really awkward if you come out and say, hey, guys, guess what we're doing to doing a national tour. It's gonna be awesome. Here are the ticket links. The next week you're like, hey, guys, guess what we You know, eight out of those ten dates that we decided to do. Yeah, they're gone, right, I couldn't get a booked. So here's here's my thing with it. Um, there is a interesting thing that is happening here and it has to do with how, in my opinion, how album cycles work. When the COVID started, everyone and their mother and their manager said, you go and make an album. And guess what they did. They made that album and they either released it during the pandemic or they saved it. Now, what do you do. What is the point of an album? It is to do live shows, Yes, it is. That's where your money is. So all of these people now have this and we'll get into recoupable money later, which will be fun. But have this money sometimes from labels that they need to pay back or people they need to actively pay back, like their producers or session musicians, and they need that money and they need to get on the tour and they want to. As you I can see you're trying to olliterate. Here is hit that huge wave of demand because like we've kind of theorized, and I think people are getting more into this mindset. Everyone and their mother is going to be like, I want to go to a concert for about some period of time. If you can guess it correctly, you're going to be a millionaire. But that period of time will not last forever. It almost reminds me of how like you see pictures of like going back to our social studies, Thank you for our educators here, uh is like after World War Two where you see like the pictures of people in New York kissing each other. That didn't happen for ten years. That happened for a period of time for a couple of months. Everyone was happy, you know, and then it wane. And so I feel like in the same way with this COVID stuff and opening up and as everything gets more opened up in more vaccines, people are hoping they hit this wave because not only can they you know, be recouped if they owe money, they can make a lot of money, especially artists who are smaller. I mean, we've seen smaller artists in in Nashville getting sold out shows that might otherwise have not been sold out. Well, you know, And the funny part is is that there's a plethora of venues that exists that have totally not gone under that can handle the infrastructure of this, which is another thing because you know, if you can't get your arena show, you're gonna go to the next best thing, which is a higher, bigger capacity club or amphitheater. You hope that might not be around anymore, right, and you hope that you can go down and go, hey, I'm a bigger person. Can you knock this down to your lower venue? Like if I trade with this guy, will you give them the lower venue? Sorry, the lower venues also booked, so you can't do that either, So like it doesn't work that way, and so it's real rough. So this is gonna be This is literally if you did not pick up the phone fast enough that literally sometimes days in between each other, you could be jeopardizing having tour if you're a huge artist like that. Because of the logistics of it too, the bigger you get, the more time and planning you need, so it's even worse. Yeah, I mean talent agents really they like what they do is they book these tours. Usually in a normal market, they'll book the tours like a year out, usually like a year to six months is kind of the range. And now have had to play a gambling game where it's like I'm putting all my money on red Oh and then people have also already lost this game. There have been people who did this in you know who did this in July of last year. They said, we're putting all our money on Red and they go because COVID is gonna go away because it's the summertime, and they saw their colleagues lose. So there, you know, in this in this pickle where it's like, I think it's really bad guys. I think we're in it. I think we can do it, but it's also really scary and super competitive. So I'm afraid who's gonna get burned in the situation. I don't think it's going to be the Arenas. Hey, this is Joe and Colin from The Biz Tape podcast, a podcast that serves as a catch all from music, business and media news of the week. Subdrive and listen to The Biz Tape on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.