Flies on the Wall as Phillies Top Brass Meets

00:00:04
Speaker 1: Hi, This is Skyles forber and welcome to the Philly Show.

00:00:08
Speaker 2: Hi everybody, how you doing?

00:00:09
Speaker 3: Todd's a lucky here with Ruben Tomorrow Junior Jim Salisbury, brought to you by the foul Territory Network. That's right, Ruben, It's Tuesday, October twenty second, twenty twenty four. We're sporting our Shibe Vintage Sports gear Shy Vintured Sports Get your unique throwback Phillies teens hats and sweatshirts from local artists at their shops in Center City, Wayne and Westchester and at shibesports dot com.

00:00:33
Speaker 2: And gentlemen, how are we doing today? You guys doing good?

00:00:37
Speaker 1: Wonderfully?

00:00:39
Speaker 2: I got big news at our house.

00:00:42
Speaker 3: Are eighteen month old slip through the knife for the first time, like ever, like two nights ago.

00:00:47
Speaker 1: Shock.

00:00:47
Speaker 2: It's amazing what a good night's sleep will do to the psyche.

00:00:51
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you know what I mean. Feeling like a human being right now. I'm like running around there.

00:00:56
Speaker 2: I'm just so excited, so excited.

00:01:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's nice. It feels like a win. You know, you need those little wins in life more importantly, But good for Ryant.

00:01:07
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly right, Yeah, she's she's been taking it out of the chin during the baseball season when I'm gone, uh having my fun lunches on the road and and uh, you know, having my uh cold beer in the in the hotel room, and night.

00:01:22
Speaker 1: He's up with the kids.

00:01:23
Speaker 4: So you're your where's your favorite lunch spot on the road?

00:01:27
Speaker 3: Oh god, that's a great question. My favorite lunch spot on the road. There's a lot of you know, a lot of great spots in Atlanta. There was a place called Flipburger in Atlanta that I used to love going to that. Yeah, flip Burger is some like top chef chef owned. That place just shut down. But Atlanta's got a lot of really kind of quiet, good lunch spots. People kind of don't get excited about going to Atlanta, but.

00:01:51
Speaker 5: That's one of my favorite spots.

00:01:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm a big fan of Atlanta South Street. Yeah, but Buttermilk.

00:01:57
Speaker 3: Buttermilk Kitchen in Atlanta is a fantas plastic like breakfast lunch spots. So if anybody gets around there, what's your favorite road city?

00:02:06
Speaker 2: Todd mine.

00:02:09
Speaker 3: I do love San Francisco and I do love San Diego, but I would say probably San Diego because the weather is always top notch, and you get some good fish tacos.

00:02:18
Speaker 1: You go to.

00:02:21
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, what's the name of the place now, I'm drawing a blank, but they.

00:02:24
Speaker 1: Have these awesome.

00:02:26
Speaker 3: It's a gaslam district. Yeah, La Porta, La Porta. If you go to San Diego, go to La Porta. Fantastic tacos, Fantastic burritos, burritos as big as your head.

00:02:36
Speaker 5: They're fantastic.

00:02:37
Speaker 4: Is that the place with the skull and the bones?

00:02:39
Speaker 1: Yes?

00:02:40
Speaker 3: Yes, And they have these celebrity mug shots all the celebrities that have been arrested, They have them all over the walls.

00:02:47
Speaker 5: Very good spot.

00:02:47
Speaker 2: What about you guys?

00:02:50
Speaker 1: You got Jim for lunchra City whatever? You know?

00:02:55
Speaker 4: Atlanta. I love to go to the Varsity. I know Todd would hate. I asked Charles Barkley if you'd been there, and he kind of didn't even know what I was talking about. I think it's near the TBS studios. It's this famous othern drive up car hop where you get chili, cheese dogs and cheese burgers, and Charles.

00:03:15
Speaker 2: Is probably having two hundred dollars steaks.

00:03:16
Speaker 3: He ain't going to get no Chili Dog in Atlanta.

00:03:19
Speaker 4: Yeah, I just I love that place. I love, you know, my favorite city, San Francisco. I like San Diego. Like you said, I loved Montreal. I hated to see it go. Yeah, my wife and I always talk about driving up there and for a weekend. And I used to love to get the smoke meat sandwiches. We've talked about that before, and I used to go in search of those at one in the morning.

00:03:44
Speaker 1: Yeah. Old Montreal is a great spot. There's actually a jazz spot that was owned by a like a Philly jazz originally Philly jazz guy, and he had a place up there and and then he passed and then his daughter took over. Really you can't remember the name of it, man. I just hung out there a couple of times. It was just so chill and cool, great spot, man. And Montreal was was was was a John I was my favorite. And then I mean San Francisco was always great because I could see some friends and stuff like that and hang out some old haunts.

00:04:19
Speaker 5: San Francisco the city itself is kind of gone south lately, but.

00:04:24
Speaker 1: I've always sort of liked it when I'm like in the different spots, different places to eat. Buckhead When I was younger and I was single, it was a you know, a jam and spot when Bucket was big. I guess it's sort of trying to make it come back again. Chicago is always a great city for me too. I love Chicago great. You know, you get a chance to go to a couple of old haunts and bars and stuff, and Gibson's is always really you know, one of my favorite state places and it's you know, still cool shopping and stuff like that there.

00:05:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, Chicago is great, man, Chicago is fantastic. A lot of good towns, a lot of good towns stories.

00:05:09
Speaker 1: We'll save that for a lots of them.

00:05:12
Speaker 4: You know what they say about Todd Rubin.

00:05:14
Speaker 1: What they say about him.

00:05:17
Speaker 4: Ozzie Nelson at home, Ozzy Osbourne on the road.

00:05:22
Speaker 1: Is that what they say about me? I wish I knew that. Oh my always the quiet ones, Jim, that I wish that were true. I wish that were true. Guys.

00:05:33
Speaker 3: The the Phillies are having their organizational meetings this week, and Jim, you and I have written a lot about organizational meetings over the years.

00:05:40
Speaker 1: The Phillies are meetings.

00:05:41
Speaker 2: They're down, They're down, in Clearweather, hunkered down in clear Water.

00:05:45
Speaker 4: But that was when, like when when Ruben was GM, he used to assemble all his lieutenants and then you know, the editor would be saying, hey, what you wrote about those? They have an org meetings, So we're gonna get a story off the org meetings. And like I'm trying, I'm trying to get Ruben on the phone, but he won't return any of my calls.

00:06:02
Speaker 3: That's correct, you're out, well, Rubin, since you you you obviously ran organizational meetings, what what are they like? So we we know that you guys get everybody together, everybody in the front office, scouts, coaching staffs, managers and what.

00:06:22
Speaker 1: Do you try to knock out?

00:06:23
Speaker 3: Like when you leave the organizational meetings? What is the number one priority or what's the goal? How do you want to feel when you come out of them?

00:06:30
Speaker 1: Well, sort of depends on the year and organization meetings. It depends on We have full blown ones where we had like literally the entire organization going down in clear Water. We set different you know, we we had different meetings, different satellite meetings based on you know, all information, whether it was a player development meeting or a hitting meeting or a pitching meeting, and we just and we gathered different people. We've had some fun ones where we just uh, there were some on occasions when when our offense across the board and in our I think one year we had like zero guys hit three hundred one year, and I was like, dude.

00:07:09
Speaker 5: We got to do something about our hitting. There's what.

00:07:12
Speaker 1: And so we brought down Mike Schmidt and Gary Matthews and all types of different guys and we just went into the Clearwater. We opened up the Clearwater Clubhouse, the main one at then it was Bright House, and we just threw a bunch of beer and alcohol in there and I said, guys, get drunk, and let's go talk baseball and let's talk about hitting. And it was actually a really really cool to listen to Schmidty and different guys talk about hitting and philosophies and stuff like that. Then we had a lot of that stuff recorded. I actually have a ton of CDs recorded from one of these where every single session was you know, we was kind of rotated with everybody. We wanted to make sure everybody got into every one of the sessions, so we sort of rotated them. It was a little difficult for the who are presenting, but it was also pretty cool, you know, based running stuff, outfield stuff, scouting stuff, pro scouting stuff. We did a bunch of different things and then we did smaller meetings and and I think this is what's happening these days, probably with Dave Dobrowski, as when he brings people in, whether it's the coaching staff or the manager, his lieutenants, as you said, probably your analytics folks, probably your player development folks, and you sit there and you talk about what's happened, what's worked, what hasn't, things that they might want to implement in the future. And obviously you want to sort of set the someone to set the tone as far as what the plan is for the off season before you get to the GM meetings, so that Dave Dobrowski when he gets to the GM meetings, he sort of has a plan in place. What free and do we make a run at which, you know, and you set up boards. That's what I used to do. We would set up boards. Is probably a little bit more sophisticated now they have electronic boards and things like that. I think at the disposal where you put a name up there either a free agent or a possible free agent, or someone who is arbitration eligible, or someone who may come off a roster, and you sort of target different guys, whether they're under control, not under control, free agent lists, and you sort of line them up and you talk about them with your scouts, you talk about them probably with your analytics folks, and you sort of get a big picture, small pictures. You kind of go start macro obviously a larger picture than you kind of work it down to like different things, this is our needs and then yet and then I mean part of it. And I used to have an end of season meeting all the time with their coaching staff and some of our lieutenants where we have this before the organization meetings. They may be doing that now.

00:09:57
Speaker 5: Where you say, okay, we have you know, what are we doing?

00:10:00
Speaker 1: We go through the entire you know, twenty five or twenty six man roster and the forty man roster, and we say, okay, is this guy going to help us? Is he not going to help us? What's his status? Do we keep them, do we bag them? Do we think about moving them? You have all those types of discussions, and and you know, I think Uh. You know the biggest thing that Pat Gillik needs to tell us all the time, and I try to start out the meeting is that you know, you guys are all paid for your opinions, whether you're a hitting guy and you have a discussion, we have a discussion about a pitcher or vice versa. I think it's important for guys to give their perspective because everybody's got a little bit of.

00:10:40
Speaker 5: Different idea or perspective and what.

00:10:42
Speaker 1: They think the value of a player is. And so it's all about opinions and how the guy fits and then you try to target them and move forward.

00:10:51
Speaker 4: You hear that expression a lot in baseball stay in your lane, but under Pat Gillick, he encouraged you to get out of your lane for your opinion because that could stimulate, you know, creativity, which I think showed how secure Pad was. He was always secure in his own skin and what he believed in, but he was great at making people feel part of it, and not just making them but indeed, you know, ensuring that people were part of it because they were they were valuable. Rubin, do you like when you have your org meetings? It's it's where I guess you lay down your off season plan. Do you focus on additions or do you focus on needs? Like do you go in and say, okay, like on this current Phillies team, we need some more pop in left field, we need more offense in center field, we need more offense and left field. Do you just kind of list needs and then you know, on another board you have potential solutions.

00:11:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's sort of what you do. I mean, it sort of makes sense. I mean you have to figure out, Okay, where are we short, how can we improve? Where is our best level of improvement, whether it's starting pitching, depth or bullpen or you know, some power or quality at bats, or you know, a decent hitter or whatever the case may be, maybe better defense, and you sort of assess. You go back and you assess one the full picture what happened with the season. And then in the case of the Phillies, obviously you really want to assess, Okay, how can we be better in the playoffs? How can we be a better team? Uh this way or that way? And then and then from that then you take you know, then you take those players and those available possible available players, and you sort of help try to line them up.

00:12:44
Speaker 5: You know, you you line up as if you were going to do a draft.

00:12:47
Speaker 1: I mean, okay, give me the best players at this position, give me this this is the need, and let me see.

00:12:52
Speaker 5: Let me go ahead and line them up and we go from there.

00:12:55
Speaker 4: And in your scouts have spent the season on the road, your scouts, and it's changed a little bit now, but they they have their their air to the ground. They know the teams they cover, who might be available. They know who maybe the ARB guys are that might move. I mean, you're your your in house guys, your staff at Citizens Bank Park. They have a list of all the ARM guys who might be moved. They have the list of guys. You know, it's probably as far back as July. They're they're plotting this stuff out, potential non tenders, potential trade candidates. So when when these guys walk into your arg meetings, I mean, they're not doing their research at that moment. This is all done and now they're throwing this out there, so you guys can all bat it around.

00:13:36
Speaker 1: Right, And I think it's uh, you know that that art of being able to gain information from the scouts, you know, it's it's difficult in this day and age because a lot of the front office guys, they don't make themselves available to the scouts. I mean I used to like sit in you know, the press clubs and talk to the guys and have discussions with them, and you would get a feel for whether you like this guy or you have a need, or you would you would find information out or a guy who played with you know, was a college roommate or a high school roommate of somebody, or played with him in an organization. You know, you try to go get some information about that guy, or hey, they don't really like so and so, they might be willing to move him, or you try to get some intel. I think that was that's that was sort of the art of being able to like decipher information and talk to people and and have you know, a broader web sort of, so to speak. And then you get that information. Hopefully you get that information from the scouts to the scouting pro Scouting director pro Scouting director to bring it to you and you know.

00:14:38
Speaker 5: That kind of stuff. But or just talk to him directly.

00:14:41
Speaker 1: I used to have weekly meetings and still to talk about some of the stuff. But then you know, I think it's just so important for you to be able to have the people in place not only to be able to evaluate, but also have the ability to go gain information from outside sources and different sources so that you had a little bit better make sure what's going on around the industry.

00:15:02
Speaker 4: When you bring your guys in and you start firing opinions across the table about who might fit your team, who might exit your team, who you might bring in, and you start and the opinions start flying. You ever see some good arguments and that almost come to blows and stuff you like in that room when you get those big personalities and those aggressive personalities and those opinionated personalities, and they're all trying to make your team better, but they might think there's a different way. I haven't seen any good fights.

00:15:34
Speaker 1: I've seen some really good battles in in mostly during the draft, where you have guys who are pretty passionate about what they see and what they But that's more old school. Everybody's so passive now everybody does. Nobody nobody's got any sack anymore, you know, I mean, nobody does. Nobody gets after it. I mean I loved it. I mean I love when guys were passionate, because that means that they're passionate about their jobs, and their passion and opinions are just that they're those, they're opinions, and it doesn't they're neither neither right nor wrong. They're just your opinion, you know. It's just like feelings, right, they're just my feelings. They're they're they're my feelings. Is the way people feel about the players, and so I think it's it was always important for guys to be able to express themselves freely be respectful of the others. There are times when people are less respectful than others because you know, they're dismissive to others opinions. But that said, I did like a nice, you know, verbal joust every once in a while, just because I think that that shows you that you have people and your staff that really care about your business and care about doing a good job and have a you know, a passion about what they're doing. And I didn't have to pull anybody. I'd have to pull anybody apart ever, but but I've had to have some you know, Okay, I think, well.

00:17:01
Speaker 3: I think you would be nice, Yeah, I think you would like that rather than having a bunch of yes men just going like yes, yes, sir, you know what I mean, Like, you don't want you want somebody with some guts that's going to stand up and go Rubin, I think you're way wrong on this guy.

00:17:15
Speaker 1: This guy can't hit.

00:17:16
Speaker 3: I don't care what you think, I don't care what you say. I don't care what you're hitting. Big league hitting coaches say, Rubin, this guy can't hit. You know, I think you would rather want somebody at least make you think a little bit rather than go yeah, yes.

00:17:29
Speaker 1: I love the guys. You are absolutely unequivocally correct. And there's a lot of people who have jobs in baseball for years and years and years and years, and I know a lot of them who are yes men and keep their mouths quiet and their nose to the grindstone and they but those are the kind of players or the kind of people in an organization that really don't make a difference. And I like people who make differences. I want somebody who's going to make a difference in my organization. And I want people who are going to care enough to speak up rather than save their job because they think that their opinion is going to be maligned.

00:18:09
Speaker 4: You like people with stack.

00:18:11
Speaker 1: I want people with I want people.

00:18:14
Speaker 3: With Pat Gillig always said, you know, you can't be afraid to make a mistake. If you're afraid to be a mistake, you're never going to hit the home runs. So you know, I have a guy out there that that'll give a crazy opinion every once in a while and we will be right back.

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00:19:29
Speaker 2: All right, so if you guys could be a fly.

00:19:32
Speaker 3: On the wall at these ORG meetings, if you could drop a little listening device Cloak and Dager mode.

00:19:42
Speaker 2: In the Phillies boardroom.

00:19:44
Speaker 1: Jim, what would be the.

00:19:46
Speaker 3: Plan the one area on this team? You would just love to know how exactly are they going to attack this deficiency that they have in their roster?

00:19:57
Speaker 5: What would it be for you?

00:19:58
Speaker 4: Boy? I have a long list, but.

00:20:03
Speaker 1: It's not that long. It's a pretty good team.

00:20:05
Speaker 4: It is a pretty good team. But I think it needs a nice tweakage.

00:20:09
Speaker 3: You know.

00:20:10
Speaker 4: One of the things are not necessarily that I'd be interested in hearing that I would bet they'd probably discussed. Is it involves two guys that are going to come back. How do you get more on a stot? How do you get more on a Turner, what are the you know what adjustments you're going to try to work on, talk to him about in the winter, work on spring training. And another big one for me would be Hoffman or Estevez. That Hoffman struggles. I want to hear the honest opinions that Hoffman struggles in the bright lights of October. Give you a pause about pursuing him as a free agent.

00:20:41
Speaker 1: And do you.

00:20:42
Speaker 4: Feel like he gave up two pretty good arms to Anaheim to get a Stevez? Maybe you take a run more of a run at him. Those are some, you know, some of the things that come to mind, but there are a lot more.

00:20:53
Speaker 1: What about you that Todd Well?

00:20:56
Speaker 3: I think left field, centerfield obviously, but I am curious. And one thing we haven't really talked about is Rob Thompson saying that they plan to reduce JT. Real Muto's playing time next season from about one thirty starts per season, one thirty five starts per season to maybe and I don't know what that number would be, one hundred ish. And if they're going to do that, they're going to need somebody that they can start the other sixty games and be pretty competent, you know, not you know, hit a little bit, catch a lot. You know, Zach Wheeler is going to have to throw to this guy probably, you would think once or twice.

00:21:33
Speaker 2: And Zach is very in particular and who he wants to throw to him?

00:21:37
Speaker 3: You would think, I mean, I guess JT could catch all of his starts next season. But you know how exactly are they going to attack that? Are you going to look internally and do you think Raphael Marshaan can actually stay healthy? Garrett Stubbs, you know he does have an option, so they could they could start him in Triple A. You know he's arbitration eligible. So do you think you have the answers internally if not externally? How do you go how do you feel that that role Externally? There's some decent free agent catchers out there, would they be willing to accept the backup role to JT? So I'd be curious to see how that that that play is going for because you know, he's he's making a lot of money and so he's gonna want to play. It's the last year of his contract, so he's gonna want to have good numbers because I know he's probably gonna want another multi year deal.

00:22:23
Speaker 2: So Howard exactly are they going to attack that?

00:22:26
Speaker 1: What about you? Rub? Yeah, it gets a tough little needle thread there. But I believe in Marshawn as a as as an athlete. I think he's outstanding. I think he'd be an every day catcher if he was durable enough. But he's not. He hasn't improven that so interesting, interesting call. Yeah, I'm always about the pitching depth in this day and age. I mean, all you got to do is watch what's going on here in the playoffs and see that there's just not enough starting pitching that that that can go deep into a game or at least save bullpens. And I just don't know how they're gonna go about creating more starting pitching depth because they basically have their big four under control. I mean, you've got Suarez, You've got Sanchez under control, you got Nola and Wheeler. Beyond that, who's going to take the brunt of the rest of the you know, the fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth guys in the rotation? And how are they going to build that moving forward? Do you look at guys who are going to be what they call twenty D free agents, which guys I mean to me, I mean there's a selling point. If I am the organization, I can say, hey, it's wide open. There's a fifth spot that's wide open. Somebody can go down that could create a sixth spot. I mean, there's whole types of stuff that you could sell on certain free agents and how they're going to attack that. And I'm also fly on the wall as far as what they're really thinking on Painter, like how they want to handle Do they want to start him in the big leagues if he does throw very very well in spring training? Do they want to monitor the innings? I'm sure they're going to consider that. How are they going to go about that? Is Mick Abel able to take some steps forward? Is he in real candidate? Is he a guy that you would trade because he's got such a good arm and you can't wait for him? How long are you going to wait for him to sort of come around and be able to command the strike zone and do the things that are necessary to be a major league quality pitcher. How are they attacking all this? How are they formulating? Are there are other guys in their system? And I don't know their whole system, but if there's other guys in their system that they can say, you know what, you know, this guy can help us in the big leagues pretty quickly, or right, is the Ryan Kirkering type of a guy who has the cohonus and has the guts to be able to step forward. Are there any of those kind of guys that are sort of in the making in their system that they can, you know, see during spring training and invite them to camp even though they may not be on the forty man roster yet. I think it's always to me, it's always a fascinating part of and something that's really been lacking over the last several years is starting pitching depth. And starting pitching depth is killing a lot of these teams in the playoffs. And I mean, you see these eight pitcher pitching in a game. It's ridiculous, and I just feel like it's so important. I'm also curious as to whether or not, as an industry, not just an industry, as an organization, how they're handling being able to cover innings as a starting pitcher. Are they really truly going to be building starting pitchers or are they going to be building multiple multiple pitchers you can pitch multiple multiple innings. I don't know what's happened in the industry as far as the starting pitching is concerned, but I do know that they've shortened it. And you know when a guy comes out of a game aim after throwing four innings in a playoff game and he's ecstatic about it, I mean, I just have a very very difficult time understanding how that how that's a good thing. I mean, it's good for him, but I just feel like, my goodness, gracious, this is just not the baseball that I grew up with.

00:26:19
Speaker 5: I don't understand it. I don't get it.

00:26:22
Speaker 1: It's it's just amazing. And you saw it happen with the Mets. They just didn't have enough. They just didn't have enough. And you know, God bless him that they did, they did so well. But every single team should be really rethinking what they're going to do with the pitching because it's just not right. Do you think the Phillies is it?

00:26:44
Speaker 2: Does it make any sense for the Phillies just.

00:26:45
Speaker 3: To go out and find a full time number five started knowing that painters coming down the line?

00:26:54
Speaker 1: Absolutely Okay?

00:26:55
Speaker 3: So in other words, is there a scout in these meetings or is there's somebody in the front office in these meetings going screw finding a stop gap. I don't want to find the next Spencer Turnbull, you know, to to give me starting pitching depth. Why not take a run at I'm just gonna throw a Max Freed or somebody like that. I mean, that's probably out of their price range. But what screw filling around the pieces.

00:27:18
Speaker 1: Let's let's go large.

00:27:19
Speaker 2: Let's go all in on starting pitching.

00:27:21
Speaker 1: Let's go twenty eleven.

00:27:22
Speaker 3: Phillies and just load up and have five studs, assuming rangers healthy and productive, and let's just run the crap out of these starting pitchers, and let's let's go full bore on That is that if I brought that up in these ORG meetings, you think, I don't think I would get laughed out of the room.

00:27:39
Speaker 1: But I mean, I don't know what a little not even a little bit for me. I mean, unless you can never have enough starting pitching it and I would put my research started pitching. I really That's.

00:27:49
Speaker 4: Why I'm curious to see, Like, like tonight, I'm gonna I'm gonna drive down Patterson AB with my binoculars. I'm gonna see if I'm gonna see if Garrett Crouchet's name is on a whiteboard. They were in it in July, why not be in it again?

00:28:04
Speaker 1: I don't know me.

00:28:07
Speaker 4: Maybe it's a little often, but that Jordan Montgomery, right, I mean, the he's owned like twenty three million bucks I think twenty two and a half. The Diamondbacks want to get rid of him. Is there a way you can try to wash some money and send somebody over there and bring him back here that way for a fresh start and get him a real spring training and see if you know, maybe you get something something there. I think those are the creative things you might have to think about.

00:28:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's things that they should think about. I just I just feel like, and I know that there's no guarantees with with starting pitching as far as health and stuff like that, but just give me a guy who I think can eat up somewhere between one hundred and fifty one and eighty ins. Can I have that guy? Because because that guy, the domino effect that it creates is so fast, and how people get to get away from that that I mean, it allows you know, your your bullpen to get better rested, and it allows them to you know, pitch in the right spots. There's so many different things. When you have to start covering hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of innings with bullpen guys, you just don't Most teams just don't have that the level of depth that's necessary, quality depth that's necessary. I mean, you know the mester philm Maton out there, dude, come on, yeah, I mean philm Maton may not be on a major league roster next year. I don't know.

00:29:35
Speaker 4: Can I go back to the catching thing, which, because I agree with Todd, it's we'd love to hear what their what their plan is, and it's super important to protect JT and march Han's out of options. He's got to be here. You said, Stubbs has an option.

00:29:48
Speaker 1: He has an option.

00:29:49
Speaker 3: He doesn't have enough service time to refuse the assignments, so he so he's our eligible, but he has an option remaining. So that's kind of a fascinating That is fascinating.

00:30:00
Speaker 1: And then and they you know, it.

00:30:02
Speaker 4: Would take a ballsy move to set to send him out. But the reason I bring it up is with mar Shawn's health history, if he's your number two guy next year, because he has to be because of the option thing, the number with his health history, the number three catcher in this organization, on this team, whatever you want to call it, becomes huge.

00:30:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, get large. I'll tell you a story about that about options. You guys remember Prince, the catcher for the Pirates for a long time. I can't remember Tom Prince. So we signed him to a two year deal years ago. He gets hurt, hurts his wrist in spring training. I think, can't play. Gary Bennett makes the team, does a great job as a backup, really really super job behind liberthought the very next year conference is still rehabbing and coming back. Gary Bennett has another option. We had to send Gary Bennett back because we had to be selfish. Was it right for him and his and his development, for his future and for his pocketbook and his m all service time and all that stuff.

00:31:10
Speaker 5: No, it wasn't.

00:31:11
Speaker 1: And he was a close friend of mine, but we had to send him back. So we send him back. So Tom, because Tom Prince, because we wanted to. We want to keep all your assets. And I remember that in the meeting us talking about that, and I remember John Bokovich himself just saying, listen, sometimes we have to be selfish as an organization. We have a control of a player. He may deserve to be in the big leagues with our team, we're not carrying three tetchers. We got to send one of them back so that if Tom Prince gets hurt or something happens to him where he's super ineffective, then we can bring Ben Gary Bennett back. We still don't lose We don't lose him. We keep him, and then no reason for us to release Tom Prince because then we didn't have anybody else beyond that. So you're right about that, Jim. Catching depth is pretty important as well. It's like having a quarterback. Your second guy better be pretty decent. Your third guy better be pretty decent because your team's done otherwise. And so so I think the catching thing is a real question and whether or not they feel that the guy like Marshawn can be the guy. Physically he can't, I mean, excuse me, talent wise, he can good switch hitter, handles catching well, good receiver, throws well, does a lot of those things well, but can't stay on the field right.

00:32:24
Speaker 3: And then plus with them pushing up against that third luxury tax, they would give you some cost certainty. If you're going to try to if you need to upgrade and left field center field rotation, you're gonna need to sign at least another reliever or two.

00:32:36
Speaker 1: So you know you got to take some money. Man.

00:32:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that man, that's interesting.

00:32:41
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, if I'm I know Steby's not gonna be happy with this, But if I'm them and I don't feel like I can get another catcher that I feel comfortable with, then I'm letting Marshaan be our backup and I'm sending get Stubbs out right. I mean, in a perfect, perfect world, it's not the greatest thing for Stubby, but I think you got to keep your assets. Yeah, we'll be right back. We get it.

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00:34:09
Speaker 1: We're back, Rubin.

00:34:11
Speaker 3: You're talking about starting pitchers and going deep into games, and then you're watching the Dodgers win Game six of the NLCS.

00:34:20
Speaker 1: I think what they use like seven relievers in Game six. But the Dodgers and.

00:34:24
Speaker 3: The Yankees are facing off in the World Series, and anybody listening to the show, of course, would have much preferred a Phillies Yankees matchup in the World Series. But Dodgers Yankees it is pretty compelling. It is pretty compelling. I mean, because it's gonna be great theater. You got show a Mookie, Judge Soto, Freddie Freeman. You've got a lot of superstar superstars in this World series, you guys MVPs.

00:34:51
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean five of them.

00:34:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, you get five MVPs.

00:34:55
Speaker 3: I think that's the only time this This will be the only time you'll have five former mv in one World series.

00:35:02
Speaker 1: You know. I think it's uh.

00:35:04
Speaker 3: I saw this on MLB dot com story. Only once in the past thirty five years have two future MVPs. I mean, I assume Judge and Otani are gonna be MVP in their.

00:35:14
Speaker 1: Respective no doubt.

00:35:17
Speaker 3: The only other time that's happened in the last thirty five years was Buster Posey Miguel Cabrera in twenty twelve. That's pretty that's pretty cool. And it's also the top two teams in each league. It's only the thirteenth time since nineteen sixty nine that the top two teams in each league in terms of record have faced each other in the World Series, first time since twenty thirteen.

00:35:38
Speaker 1: You guys, look are you?

00:35:39
Speaker 2: Have you guys been watching the postseason? You guys looking forward to this World Series? I mean, I think it's gonna be fun.

00:35:44
Speaker 5: I've been watching the I've been watching the playoffs.

00:35:46
Speaker 4: I've been I've been flipping back and forth between Bobby Flay and the world and the.

00:35:52
Speaker 1: We know what you are?

00:35:54
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I got to make some some beat Bobby Flay in there. But uh, I mean that that whole run on Sodo hit what one of that bad? He look so confident, like he's almost being cocky up there, Like I got you.

00:36:06
Speaker 1: It's just a.

00:36:07
Speaker 4: Matter of he put boy, what kind of pressure does that? Not that the Yankees can't afford him, and they, you know, but they do have. Like you hear a lot about the Yankees having a you know, finally having a budget whatnot, But that puts enormous pressure on them to retain him, especially with the with the Mets across town ready with the big check book. It's gonna be a fascinating kind of joust for one Soto.

00:36:33
Speaker 1: That sure is. And listen, I'll say the same thing I said on MLB Network about Judge and the Yankees when they were going through that whole rigamarole. They have to sign him, they have to sign him. It's the Yankees. Sign the dude.

00:36:55
Speaker 4: No no limit, no limit on number.

00:36:57
Speaker 1: One limit, just sign It's not my money.

00:37:01
Speaker 3: Every home run that guy hits in the postseason and they're like, dude, add another.

00:37:06
Speaker 1: It's going to be a seven hundred million dollar deal or a six hundred million dollar deal. You're gonna pay it, pay it, and you have the player. Right, you don't pay it, you don't have the player because the people are going to pay it. And I mean, he's perfect for that team, dude. He's got the two best left handed and right handed hitters in that league. You have to have them on their team. It's the Yankees. You act like the Yankees when you're the Yankees, just like you act like the Dodgers when you're the Dodgers. Right, But I think the I let him go?

00:37:36
Speaker 4: What's that?

00:37:37
Speaker 1: Andrew Friedman wouldn't let him go?

00:37:39
Speaker 4: You said the Yankees act like the Yankees. I think the Mets have more ability to act like the Yankees and the Yankees.

00:37:47
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter, doesn't matter.

00:37:50
Speaker 2: You gotta sign him on.

00:37:51
Speaker 1: You gotta sign him, got it. It'll be embarrassing to them.

00:37:56
Speaker 2: I'm serious, No, I agree.

00:37:58
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't see how you let the guy go, especially if they go off and they win this World Series. I don't know how you let it. I don't know how you let soda go.

00:38:04
Speaker 1: To the Mets or he somewhere sing strip in those Yankee pin stripes.

00:38:09
Speaker 4: Dude, Scott Boris has drool coming out of mind.

00:38:13
Speaker 1: Ah please, he's threatting around his house right now. Come on, he's walking like me after a full night of sleep. He's he's pimping. He's pimping.

00:38:25
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I mean, what a great What do you think those meetings are like when you're walking around the Scott Boris office going, oh.

00:38:31
Speaker 1: My god, I watched my game falling over the wall and whoa, he's throwing a party.

00:38:41
Speaker 4: But I mean it's great.

00:38:42
Speaker 9: It is great for base You know, this is the five five of the best, top like twelve ten players in all of baseball or assembled in the same and the same series.

00:38:53
Speaker 1: Dude, come on, Rookie Friedman, I mean you start thinking about the actual talent and how good these guys, dude players. There's Hall of Famers there, Yeah, there's hall. There's almost guaranteed Hall of famers, like five of them there at least, and and it's and yeah, I think it's a great theater.

00:39:15
Speaker 4: And yet what makes baseball great is Tommy Edmund drives in eleven runs boom and a role player drives in eleven runs in the LCS to you know, elevate them. And there some of their unknown relievers pit really well. But Tommy Edmund me know, late, you know what a trade deadline pick up, I mean, just shows the importance of the trade deadline, shows the importance of the around the Edges players. It's been really cool, brilliant.

00:39:41
Speaker 1: And I remember talking to Andrew Friedman about him when all those guys were on the d L. We were out there in Los Angeles. All those guys were on the d L. They had mcguil, Rojas on the d L, they had Mookie on the d L. They didn't have a shortstop, so they just started collecting shortstops. Nikam and a med Rosario and Tommy Edmund and they were like, and I remember Andrew going, it's gonna get really uncomfortable when these guys are all all healthy. I don't know what I'm gonna do with all of them. And he basically had to release a bunch of them, pick the right thing, cap the right guy. And Tommy Edmund is a player man, He's versatile. Yeah, he can run. But he can do different things. You can play center, second, short, you can play all through the middle of the field, can't catch.

00:40:23
Speaker 10: But he can do all the other things. And uh, boy did he come up big. He was hitting in the four hole on a team that has Crazy Otani, Will Smith, to Oscar Hernandez, uh, Freddie Freeman, Mookie Betts.

00:40:39
Speaker 1: I mean, and he's hitting in the four hole.

00:40:41
Speaker 4: Because he makes contact boom. He's not a good run boom.

00:40:45
Speaker 1: He would be a.

00:40:46
Speaker 3: Perfect player for the fight in films. Oh yeah, yeah, well it'd be. It's gonna be a great World Series. I mean, Otani does. The star power of him alone is just it's great to see him not only get to the postseason, but in his you know, get to the get to the world's So good times, good times to be fun. We'll be back later this week with more on the Phillies and baseball guys. That was that was enjoyable. I learned a little bit about the Orc meetings and uh and there rolling a.

00:41:15
Speaker 4: Cooler of beer and say get drunk that right?

00:41:20
Speaker 2: Wait, now, wait a second, do you have that?

00:41:23
Speaker 3: You said you have some of those conversations on on DVD, so like I have all of them.

00:41:29
Speaker 2: Never ask a Navy man if I'll have another drink.

00:41:32
Speaker 1: Remember the line from Caddy Shack. I have a lot of that stuff, my man, Kevin Camasoli filmed at all. I mean, that's great stuff to have.

00:41:41
Speaker 2: I mean, that is that's.

00:41:43
Speaker 1: To get look at it. I don't even I mean there's hundreds of hours of got some scout telling Ruben off at the.

00:41:51
Speaker 3: Ende of me.

00:41:52
Speaker 1: Let me tell you what I've always wanted to say. His head, Oh my gosh.

00:42:00
Speaker 4: All right, guys, we'll smell you later, smell you latter, smell it.

00:42:04
Speaker 11: The Philly Show is brought to you by the Foul Territory Network. Subscribe to The Phillies Show on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. If you like us, give us a review, Follow us on Instagram, TikTok x, Facebook, and threads. Find Rubens analysis before, during, and after Phillies games on NBC Sports Philadelphia, on the Sports Radio ninety four, WIP Morning Show, and MLB Network. Find Jim at all phl y dot com. Find me at MLB dot com, the Phillies Beat newsletter, and MLB Network