Step It Up

00:00:00
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?

00:00:01
Speaker 2: I mean, I do know what you mean.

00:00:03
Speaker 3: So here we are, Caitlin, Good morning, Welcome to the Renee Stubbs Tennis Podcast.

00:00:20
Speaker 1: We've got a lot to talk about this week.

00:00:22
Speaker 2: Should we just jump right into it?

00:00:24
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, let's jump right into it.

00:00:27
Speaker 2: It's the first of all the end of the year. I feel like everything happens just all in a hurry and gets scrambling around this time of year.

00:00:35
Speaker 3: Listen, let me just stop, because you know our listeners expect this from me.

00:00:39
Speaker 1: How are you handling the cold?

00:00:41
Speaker 2: Thank you? I am touched that you and I can't believe any listener actually cares how I'm dealing with the weather. But it's sunny. I was outside playing tennis all weekend, and I'm about to go to San Francisco actually for a women in Tech, Media and Finance summit held by our friend Jessica Leston, who is the founder of the Information I'm going to be hanging out with our friend Sophie Goldchmidt. We're speaking out a panel on Wednesday. I'm going to see some Bay Area friends I don't get to see usually, and I'm going to be playing some tennis as I understand it with Meta, and we're going to be at the Silverado Resort, so I'm going to see my friend Katie Delich. So it's going to be a bit of a whirlwind tour. I'll be in San Francisco a couple of days. Yeah, I'm not getting those Meta dollars though, So.

00:01:28
Speaker 3: That's nobody is except market sucker bug. Yeah, Caitlin, it's been a great week. Oh so, if tennis you have our listeners didn't hear from us last week, we all just decided to have a sabbatical because it feels like that at this time of the year, it's kind of like, eh.

00:01:45
Speaker 2: I think you have to rest up for one final push. A lot of players are doing that. You went to LA last week in fact, and we kind of felt like, let's wait until we have a couple of things to discuss, because week before last they were sort of scattered exhibition, some tournaments, minor stuff, and then this past week we had I think a couple of very interesting terms of events. We had all of the sort of last minute placements for who's going to get to the finals on the ATP and WTA side, getting closer to fruition, the WTA side is set, so you know, and then we had some really interesting results. So I think, like, now there's actually stuff to talk about, and there's a couple of things that we can kind of get into, you know, most of which are actual tennis news. So yeah, I feel like, you know, sometimes we've got to take a week off just because we don't have that much to say.

00:02:38
Speaker 3: Yes, and I would like to clarify something because I don't know, because you don't care about my Twitter wars or any of you.

00:02:45
Speaker 2: Can't think of anything I care about less.

00:02:47
Speaker 1: No, But here's the thing. This is what cracks me up about.

00:02:50
Speaker 3: It is that I wake up sometimes in the morning, or go to bed at night, or just happen to check something and I'm like, what is what is happening here? Why am I getting abused by people again?

00:03:00
Speaker 1: Right? You know, You're just like, what have I done now? Kind of thing?

00:03:02
Speaker 3: You know, And then tt Sports put out and you know, this is what some of these like ESPN dot Com or TNT or Yahoo Sports or all of the fan doors or whoever it is, you know, they decide to take. And this is why, you know, Petko and I say fuck you, fuck you to all these people that take out like little snippets from our podcast and then they put it up as a.

00:03:24
Speaker 1: Headline, like this is what she said. And it was kind of along the lines of.

00:03:31
Speaker 3: Me saying that Novak Djokovic should just stop and he there's no reason for him to keep playing because he's not winning anymore, right, sort of I'm paraphrasing not.

00:03:42
Speaker 2: At all what you've said.

00:03:44
Speaker 1: It's not at all what I said. I said, and I'll say it again.

00:03:48
Speaker 3: He doesn't need to keep playing in tennis anymore because he's achieved everything and I don't and for me, if he's not winning slams, you know, as much as he loves playing tennis, and every right player that plays into their late thirties, Roger Rafa, Serena, all the players, Andy Murray, all of them. You know, they love to play, But at some point, how much do you love to play and not win major titles? Right when you're the greatest player of all time, who's won the most Grand Slams of all time?

00:04:19
Speaker 1: And I think, and so my words.

00:04:22
Speaker 3: Of course, they take that one line and then they put it up as a headline, and then of course, sixty five thousand Serbians decide to again go after me for saying something like that taken out of context.

00:04:34
Speaker 1: So it drives me crazy. Then and then you.

00:04:37
Speaker 3: Say, wow, just ignore them, and that is all true. I could ignore them, but the point is those comments are taking out a contest.

00:04:46
Speaker 1: I if you kept going on my comments.

00:04:49
Speaker 3: My next comment was, I hope he keeps playing we love him in the draw. I hope he keeps playing tennis. I didn't say.

00:04:57
Speaker 2: I think as soon as you start explaining yourself to people who are not interested in a good faith conversation, you've lost. So that's mine. No, you've lost, You've lost the you've lost the plot. If you're going to argue with somebody who has no intention of creating a dialogue in a good faith manner, you've lost the argument already. It's like fighting with uh, somebody covered in poop. It's like nope, nope, I'm out. You know what I mean. It's just like, don't you're what's the There's an expression like if you argue with crazy, then there's no difference between either of you. It's just like, no thanks. Anybody who leaves listens to the podcast, anybody who knows that we have some spicy takes from here, and then know that fundamentally we love tennis, we love seeing people who are great at play it, and that doesn't make them above criticism for certain amount of the behaviors, certainly, and we're going to call those things out as we always have. But in this case it's like, yeah, no, vik Djokovic win wins, has won everything he needs to win, to prove everything he's needed to prove, especially with the Olympics last year. And player, don't you know, I think he yea, he will choose to do whatever exactly he wants to do, just like we see Venus Williams choosing to do. I was on the other side of this a couple of years ago. I was like, ah, Venus should retire. And then somebody, I think it was the guys that the Body Syrup, which is one of my favorite shows out of Toronto, who were like, we should never tell athletes when they can retire. They can do whatever they want, you know, as long as Venus keeps putting butts and seats and gets wild cards, she can't. And I was like, yeah, actually that's remember and Andy Murray like, why does he keep taking his walkouts?

00:06:26
Speaker 1: Because because he sells tickets.

00:06:28
Speaker 2: That's why people want to see him. And when people don't show up to a single Venus match, when people don't show up to a single Andy match, or people don't show up to a single Novad match, then guess what, those wildcards will dry up, and probably so will their desire to play, because I don't want to play in front of nobody. But until people are really uh you know, signaling that they're done, and these players are choosing to be done, then you know, what are we doing about it? So yeah, I would my advice to you would be don't wrestle with the covert and poop. No, just also get off Twitter. That's not let them. Nothing good is happening on Twitter much less any any referrals, any content.

00:07:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I see I don't seem to be able to win.

00:07:07
Speaker 3: I mean they took contexts again from our podcast this is like last year and actually equated the words that were said to me and I didn't even say them, and they posted it.

00:07:21
Speaker 2: Twitter anymore, so they have to come after you.

00:07:23
Speaker 3: Well, this was on everything, This is on Instagram. They don't go on all my pics and they make these you know, just horrible comments on my like photos of you know, a bleach or something. You know.

00:07:34
Speaker 2: Let me tell you, now, you've given them more things to talk about. So well, I I hope so, but there's gonna they're going to find something to criticize.

00:07:42
Speaker 3: So the less you say, anyway, just just so everybody knows, I hope no Jocovi it's place for another five years. Okay, that's not the point of my point. Okay, anyway, all right, so let's get to the tennis. Janick sinner unbelievable. He's on an incredible wind streak on hard court indoors, and it's really not even hardcore if you it's kind of like I didn't even know how to describe. It's like wood but indoors. He is a tremendous player on every single surface. This is why he's, you know, arguably the best player in the world right now, him and Carlos who just heads and shoulders above everybody else. But I got to give Zverev a lot of credit. He played some really inspiring aggressive tennis in the final against Cinna, and he really really made him work in this match. I think Yannick got off to a quick break of serve in the in the first set, lost his serve and Alex like ran with that break of serve. Then Yannick played an incredible game, an incredible point to break as Vero serve in the second set, and then ran away with that second set because let's face it, both of these guys served so well, so big, and then Yannick just played an incredible game at five all to break and then served it out with no problem whatsoever.

00:08:54
Speaker 1: So Yannick again just on fire indoors.

00:08:58
Speaker 3: That's why I've picked him to win the the ATP Tour Final, because it is indoors. And although Carlos you know, has beaten him on occasions on a hard court, and I believe indoors, I just feel like Yannick his power is just you know. He hit a back end down the line to give him breakpoint against Verev at five all on the third It was an unbelievably long point and then he just got the opportunity to go for the back end down the line and hit just a ridiculous back end down the line to win the to get the break point, and then just too good on Zverev made a pretty passive I believe error to lose the game and then Yannick serves it out unbelievably.

00:09:35
Speaker 1: Well, I think the biggest question for me with.

00:09:38
Speaker 3: Janick is is Darren Kal going to keep going?

00:09:41
Speaker 1: He has said that he's you know, this is his last.

00:09:44
Speaker 3: Year, but man, you have to think that Janick's going to be throwing a lot of dough his way to like stick around and keep coaching, because you know, I know, Darren's been coaching so long and it is such a stressful job.

00:09:58
Speaker 1: People think, how's it stressful? You got the best player in the world.

00:10:01
Speaker 3: It's not that difficult, blah blah blah, But the amount of stress on you as a coach to get it right, to tell them the right things, to give them the right game plans.

00:10:09
Speaker 1: And Darren's really big on the game plans.

00:10:11
Speaker 3: And and just his whole thought process of getting Yani's head around big matches. And it's going to be interesting to see what happens if if Darren k Hill is on the coaching bag next year, because you have to think that Jani's gonna throw a lot of money out him to stay.

00:10:28
Speaker 2: I uh, you know, alex Verev played more aggressive than he usually does, but he's just not that guy. He's just not that guy.

00:10:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's not that guy.

00:10:38
Speaker 2: He's not that guy. He's gonna falter what it counts, not because his game's not great, not because he's not a good mover, not because he has done well to stay healthy the last two years. It's between the years and uh, you know that said Center is, it's between the incredibly dominant and it's hard to imagine anybody beating him on hardcore for the rest of the year, certainly, even though he has a chance to play against Carlos Akaaz one more time before the ATP finals this week in Master's one thousand Paris event, which is the last big turn of the year for the men. So yeah, I mean, for me, there's not so much that you can say about Center that's particularly interesting. It's you know, the most interesting thing Yannick Center has done is release a single with Andrea Bocelli, which I don't feel like anybody talked enough about frankly, but you know from the tennis you know this guy keeps it between the tram lines. And yeah, maybe if you're Darren Cahill, you just there's only so much money you need.

00:11:35
Speaker 3: No, No, he's not like Mark Zuckerberg money, you know what I mean, Like he's still I would say I would do it for another couple of years and then sail off into the sunset and not even worry about doing.

00:11:47
Speaker 1: Anything else the rest of my life.

00:11:49
Speaker 3: I think the only problem is, you know, at some point he is married, he does have kids, you know, you know how you want to spend a little more time with them. But I think Darren's one of the most level headed human beings there is, and he'll make the decision based on what's best for him and his family. But it's certainly going I think it would be very difficult. Yanick has spoken about how important Darren is. He's kind of like a father figure to him, and he's been such a great influence over him as a person. And those of us are lucky enough to spend time around Darren Cahle, like myself, he's always been sort of like that. I don't know, it's just that guy you like talking to and bouncing ideas off. And so I would.

00:12:28
Speaker 2: Imagine, is he gonna say, is he still an ESPN commentator?

00:12:33
Speaker 3: As far as I know, Yes, of course, So I don't know, We'll see. Yeah, look, Darren has so many opportunities to do what ever he once because he's so sought after as a coach, as a commentator, is one of the best commentators, if not the best commentator in the world. And so you know, that's all all up for grabs, and we'll see what happens. We'll see what Janick does. And that's a big void, like there's somebody who played myself, and when you have somebody around you that's been so influential in your life, you know, as a as a coach and as a player and as a person as Darren is, it's going to be interesting to see what happens there. And I would suspect that those questions will be asked a lot of Yannick and Darren in the next like two or three weeks about what's going to happen.

00:13:14
Speaker 1: So I don't know.

00:13:17
Speaker 3: I have to I have to give our Juao von Seka, what a great, terrific win for him, But his opponent just can't win a match. He can't win a match when it matters in the final to win a tournament.

00:13:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, Da Vidovich Fakina to me is overdue for a title. But I think I don't think it's going to happen on hard courts. No, it's hard to imagine that he gets his first title on anything other than the deeply read clay of Southern Europe, probably Spain, from which he originates. But I draft on Cheka is really fun to watch. Obviously, Brazil has had a couple of really fun moments this year, watching this kid really come into his own. There's been a little back and forth about his speech to davidovich Fakina, just saying, hey, man, don't worry, you'll get here one day. And it comes from the eighteen year old who's already nineteen, from the nineteen year old who has already got two ATP titles. I feel for those guys having to give speeches and having to receive speeches, because, you know, not everyone as a speaker, especially not in a non native language. Who I'm sure they're doing their best, but it did sort of elicit some chuckles among the tennis commentariat to hear, you know, davidovich Fakina, always a bridesmaid, never a bride getting a consolation speech from Jeoff Munsika, who's you know, obviously after a latenings.

00:14:41
Speaker 1: But can I just say it reminds me of I don't know if you remember.

00:14:44
Speaker 3: This was when Andy Roddick lost to Roger Federer in the finals of Wimbledon in that epic of course, I remember the nightmare sixteen fourteen whatever it was, in the fifth set, and Andy did barely did he lost of one time in the whole match, still lost the tournament and had lost I think two couple of Wimbledon finals, you know, or whatever is. And Roger turns around says, hey, man, I know how you feel because Roger lost the year before to Rafa, and Andy's face, I'll never forget. It's like, are you effing kidding me? You know, because you know Andy would have thought that in his head because it was like, wait, you're empathizing with me because you lost that one time in a final of Wimbledon, and you're gonna say, hey, dude, I know how you feel. No, you don't know how I feel because I have never won Wimbledon and you've already won it like five times, So go fuck yourself.

00:15:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, I appreciated that, I feel like Andy. One of the things that makes some great commentator and why his podcast is so entertaining, is because he related some pull punches and like, you know, look, Roger was the epitome of that corporate class era of everyone you know, following them over themselves to saying something that was nice as opposed to something that was sort of a little bit more I don't know, less polished. Say I feel like, bring back shit talking in the speeches. That'll be much more interesting. Otherwise they're just boring to watch.

00:16:10
Speaker 3: I don't know if it's on YouTube. It would be funny to watch it on YouTube. But you should go find the speech of that because Andy's face told the story like, no, dude, you actually don't know how I feel, So go fund yourself.

00:16:22
Speaker 2: Anyway, we need more cursing, and especially.

00:16:25
Speaker 1: At Wimbledon, especially at Wimbledon.

00:16:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, they really appreciate salty language at Wimbledon. Hopefully between or the royal family is there, so you know, just more more the mirror. How good can jofud take a get he hits the ship out of the ball, say.

00:16:38
Speaker 3: That very very, very very I mean the guy his forehand is massive, How good can he get much much better? I think he can improve on his serve. I don't think his service motion is I don't love it. I think that it's the sort of abbreviated. I think he can get a little bit a lot more on it. And listen, you can say it is what it is, Well, no it's not. It is what it is because look at Yanick Sinner what he did a couple of years ago thanks to Darren Kale really emphasizing the step up with the foot. You can change your service motion, especially when you're that age. And I would like to see him get a little bit more risks snap. I'd like to see him get a little bit more on his serve. He's not the biggest guy, so it's not going to be as easy for someone like you know, Janick Sinner who's very told to get that explosiveness and quick wrist snap and leg drive up into the ball and just get five to seven to eight more hour miles per hour on the ball. But I do think he can improve on that. You think he's back and can get even better. But the thing that I love about him, very much like Carlos al Karaz and I guess Novak and Yannick in some ways, and we've talked about this about Taylor Fritz, is that his willingness to move forward and he has fabulous volleys like his forehand volley, And I always judge a volleyer by often by their forehand volley because it's not as natural as the back end volley.

00:17:57
Speaker 1: Should shouldn't it the back and should be more natural.

00:18:01
Speaker 3: That's why you'll see players run in and sort of hit an inside out back and bolli as opposed to hitting a forehand volley.

00:18:06
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sort of pointing at myself, but his forehand.

00:18:11
Speaker 3: Volley and his volleys are excellent, Like he hit a couple of really big ones on big points in that final, and I think if I think for him that layering and layering and layering is only going to get better. Nineteen years of age, he has about three or four years to really develop the serve, the backhand, the variety hits, the beautiful drop shot. Like it's amazing to me after watching these guys play, how much they really implement the drop shot in the points now because they're both all these players are so quick on the baseline and they're all so good with their groundstrokes that they have to have variety, and so the variety is the drop the drop shot off the forehand, which we're seeing implemented even more and more than it was in the back ten to fifteen years ago thanks to Carlos really implementing that forehand drop shot into the game. But it's the movement for it forward and his volleys are excellent, like really really good. So I just I think his upside is huge. I think he would have learned a lot about himself this year with a pressure on him to do better, and he hasn't had a great year quote unquote for what we expected the way he started the year when he smoked rub Lev at the Strain Open this year and I was like, oh, here he comes.

00:19:21
Speaker 1: But he didn't really have I mean, had a very good year. Particularly it's number nineteen.

00:19:26
Speaker 3: But when you think about Karlas Saukaraz, he'd already won a Grand Slam at nineteen, so you know, you was open and so. But I think he sort of. I love his attitude, he's the crowd love him. His forehand is massive. I think he has to improve on the depth of his backhand. He has the variety with the slice, but I love that he moves in and I think his serf can improve. So yeah, tons of upside, and yeah, I'm hoping I know you hate to hear this, Caitlin, because you don't like these rivalries, but I do feel like Sinner and and Alcarez are so heads and shoulders above everybody else.

00:20:03
Speaker 1: But I think Ja Fonseka can.

00:20:05
Speaker 3: Get there to really push those guys, because I hope so a lot.

00:20:10
Speaker 2: I mean, I think the downside for all this, and I'm not trying to be the no no or like negative about it. It's just the ATP is so boring right now that I don't it's hard to engage with it. Like, yes, we already pretty much know the outcome of a lot in the next two tournaments that are going to be played. I am dying hoping against hope that Felix O j eli Asim, who won a tournament in Belgium this past week, who's really really most alive in most himself on indoor hard courts. I hope somehow he gets in there as a disruptor and maybe make some noise at Paris or the ATP finals. I think the thing I don't like about rivalries is just that they tend to de emphasize the pack, and I don't like when things feel pre ordained, and I don't like out for gun conclusions. I think that's really boring. And so when we only have like how many more can this one guy win or how many you know, like a lot of times the matches aren't particularly competitive or good, like we saw at the US Open, and granted probably Yanik was not you know, physically fit for that match, but you know, they only really turned into classics on on certain occasions. And I think, for me, what I want to see out of the ATP certainly is that the Taylor Fritz is the zverevs. The guys who are top five, not even the guys who are top ten. Let's talk about the guy who are top five. I want to see them taking some wins in the finals when it matters, when it counts, not necessarily in the Grand Slams, although yes, also the Grand Slams. But I think the reason that the WTA to me, just remains such a superior product from a spectating viewpoint is it's up in the air, like I don't know what's going to happen. I don't know which version of Arena sbalanc is going to show up. Is it the one who won the US Open and the one who won Australia twice. Or is it the one who loses her mind and goes a wall. Is it Ega from pre uh, you know, pre Wimberley Wimbledon, Or is it Ega who looked unstoppable and and you know, mows everybody down. Are we going to get a wild card?

00:22:17
Speaker 3: Like?

00:22:17
Speaker 2: Are we going to get a Rebakina who's obviously the last to qualify but has done extremely well on a hard courts in years past, particularly when they're fast. So you know, like, to me, that's exciting, like maybe Jess mc pawolini is gonna come out of nowhere and snatcha title. What I like about the WTA finals in particular is you get some sort of counterintuitive winners. You know, Caroline Garcia has won a WTA final, we had Fiddlina has won a won a WTA final. We had Garbinia Magrutha, who you know obviously won two slams. But like they're they're the unpredictability is of it? To me is the exciting part. And so yeah, I hope you're right. I hope j'ofon Seka gets in there and I hope he really surges. I hope one of these guys who frankly is probably risking looking like the second Lost generation. Now that Center and Alchoriz are installed at the top, and you know they they didn't miss a beat between the Big four or Big three and now these two guys. You know, what's what's Taylor Fritzer or Alex Verev got to say about it? Tcpass looks like he's lost at sea. You know, there's really not too many guys. He's you know, he's on a mental journey. But like, what are we doing here, guys, Like let's step it up, Like are you guys cool just showing up and collecting your third place paycheck every week? Like I don't know that. I mean, look, I would be candidly fine with that, but I don't think that that's what you think of when you wake up every morning as a professional athlete, Like, oh, I'm cool, bronze for me. Let me get my cafeteria tray and just take whatever slop's left over from these two dudes. It's like, come on, dudes, get fired up, Like it's not making this boring, you know, so anyway, you've you've you've gotten me all now. But how I feel about the ATP it feels like it's going to be all over everybody else. Now you come at me, bros like it's it's it's two guys and everybody else. And until that changes, I don't know. I can't get that excited about it.

00:24:11
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, sits a pass Withdrew sort of hours before his opening round just recently in Vienna. But he had no problem going to collect his one point five million at the six Kings, but all of a sudden he has a back problem. So I mean, get your bag, bro, I mean get your bag, and then.

00:24:31
Speaker 2: I mean Vera, I've played one fifty four minute match.

00:24:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean so with I mean the amount of injuries as well, Like Felix Asia ali Usim, your guy is trying to make the ATP finals, had to withdraw against Mina after losing the first set. So there's like they're like limping to the finish line.

00:24:47
Speaker 2: It's brutal, it's.

00:24:49
Speaker 3: It's it's tough out that rude as well, he's struggling coming down the end with injuries.

00:24:54
Speaker 1: So there's there's guys pulling out left and right.

00:24:56
Speaker 3: But you know, when I look at the men's schedule as well, these are big tournaments that these guys are sort of like trying to get into the a TV finals, but you know, the women are already in rear, they're getting ready to play, and the guys are still going and like and playing Masters one thousand tournaments. Like, I mean, can we talk about how packed this section, like this part of the drawers for the men indoors in Europe, and they're just adding like these random exhibitions in like the Middle East.

00:25:27
Speaker 1: It's just crazy. I mean, Sinner clearly didn't matter.

00:25:30
Speaker 3: He won six kings, then he goes and wins, you know, another tournament in Europe.

00:25:34
Speaker 1: So but he is.

00:25:36
Speaker 3: The difference with him, I feel is he is so assured of his schedule and his load on his body and when he wants to play and when he doesn't want to play, and when he does decide to play, he usually follows.

00:25:49
Speaker 1: Through and finishes a tournament.

00:25:51
Speaker 3: And so I don't know if that's testament to his fitness, his work ethic or what, but he certainly has no problem getting to the end of these tournament.

00:26:00
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think maybe it's also his style of play, like he is very very He's not there's nothing wild going on, you know what. I mean, like unless something out of Yeah, there's an efficiency to him, like you know, watching him on the US Open courts, you know, he's not taking any extra detours. He's not you know, he's not looking to extend any rallies. He doesn't have to, like, let's get it done, get off court, get into recovery, and get ready for the next you know what I mean. So there's a brutal efficiency that. But I also think, like you know, when it comes to the schedule, which now we should definitely talk about, especially as we're on the topic of the ATP. You know, when it comes to the schedule, I think John Mortham made the very interesting point and I want to piggyback off of it because I think he was right and although I'm not sure exactly why, and I want your help figuring out if you agree. John Wortham said this whole thing about the schedule being both highly highly problematic and also a symptom, not a cause of the exhibitions. The exhibitions are problematic in the sense that they are perceived as being competing for the players and also you know, obviously taking the players into another performance environment in which they can get hurt and that in a year where the season is too long already and when they're getting injured already, like that's not great. On the other hand, if the season were coherent and maybe made sense, we maybe would see less of these exhibitions. That's the point where I'm was making and I feel like it's true, although I'm not sure I can articulate why I think it's true, and so I don't actually think it's that productive to single out any one exhibition. You know, Yeah, the Saudi's paid more than labor Cup did, but both of them meant exactly the same, which is zero. So what is it about the exhibitions versus length of schedule that we can fix in one fell swoop? Because I don't know that we should be prohibiting people from going and making money wherever they want to make it, and I absolutely you have made that point many times on this show. So it's for me, it's just more of a question of like, how can we get what we want out of tennis, which is a massive meta narrative that makes sense because right now it doesn't and players that are healthy because right now they're not.

00:28:37
Speaker 3: Are you getting paid by the minute with saying meta on this podcast today.

00:28:42
Speaker 2: I'm not getting paid to anything by Meta damn it. Unfortunately they rebranded to a very useful adjective. Otherwise they would never utter their word at all.

00:28:52
Speaker 1: You know, it's it is an interesting conversation.

00:28:55
Speaker 3: Then you and I have talked about ad nauseum on our pod, about adding these weeks and adding these schedules and getting on a plane and going to practice, and you're not going to just there's some exhibitions.

00:29:06
Speaker 1: Where you just don't give a you know what.

00:29:09
Speaker 3: And I would suspect that Alcarez or some of these players don't even hit a ball before they go and play Rod Labor Prod Labor, the Labor Cup like this is so quick after the US Open that they need a break, you know, physically and mentally and emotionally, and so you know, you know, I know that like Carlos went and played the Garden Cup here at Madison Square Garden in December, I think it was he hadn't hit a ball in like two or three weeks.

00:29:33
Speaker 2: So, by the way, Carlos has two of those coming up. He's coming back to New York and I think doing somebody in New Jersey, and he's got another one in Miami, So like, yeah, there's not the you know, I get the temptation to beat up on Saudi and we can certainly do that, especially when you talk about the Master's one thousands. But I think you know, no, I'm not saying by you, but like by people, by'd be like six King Slam there, Ai marketing was terrible. There ar marketing was terrible, six King Slam. Do we feel comfortable with this? That's separate conversation. But like as an exhibition, can't critique it without critiquing.

00:30:02
Speaker 1: We critique every exhibition.

00:30:04
Speaker 2: And I'm not again, I'm not saying you, I'm saying the tennis governing, the tennis chattering class tends to want to you know, have exceptional Well, well, no, Labor Cup is more real because it's no, it's not. It's not one bit more real. Like it's not real. Don't tell me that they care because they're playing for you know, yick, noah, don't you know.

00:30:27
Speaker 3: I would like to see I would like to see these exhibitions or some of them be played every couple of years, right and so interesting like the l at P and W T A. I'm hearing more and more that you know, there might be a combined atp w t A in the coming year or two, and I think that would be great. I think that you combine everything, you really strategically sit down and you say, what are important parts around the world, where do we want to play, Where are we strategically putting the bigger tournaments, and you carve out some areas where there's exhibition play those players. You think about someone like gunnix Inn or alcoraz Mades, how much did they get paid to go and play six kings. I mean, it's just insane, but it's like they can make that money easily. They're getting paid a million dollars a night for an exhibition. So you know, that's why we sort of, I don't complain, but when people say the Grand slams Majors need to give more money to the players, that's why. Because they're playing seven matches to win about four million dollars and you think they just got paid five million right to go to Saudi and play no matches that counted or they cared about right for no pressure, no pressure, no nothing, nothing on the line. Just here's some money play for our people in front of our people in our country and whitewasher sport. Right here we are, and then you're playing seven matches of intensity and stress and injuries and fighting through shit and like dealing with the press and dealing with you know, not the fans, but like there's all of that stuff around you, and you're winning four million dollars or four and a half million dollars or maybe five million dollars, right depending on what Grand Slam you're winning. So when people are like, wow, they're still making a lot of money, it was like, really a mages, not really, when these majors are winning taking home hundreds of millions of dollars, you know, whether it be the French Federation, Wimbledon, whatever, whoever it is, we always yeah.

00:32:21
Speaker 2: I think it's it's very very useful to think less about the top line number for the prize money and much more useful to think about it as a proportion. The players are making a fraction of the money that the Slams are making. The Slams are rich beyond your wildest beliefs, and the truth is the most of the other tournaments are not making that much money, and they cannot afford both the appearance fees and the prize money. To keep them. So if the choice, and I'm say, steph TC Busle, let's not pick on him at all, because you know, I actually really love him, but like it is my choice to maybe I think he probably does have a little bit of a lingering back issue, certainly been something he's dealt with the last couple of years. Go make one million dollars in fifty seconds in over a weekend, or play a two fifty for a total prize money of two hundred k in Hong Kong. Yeah, this guy already trains in Dubai. Going to Saudi is an hour and a half flight yep. Okay, So like what's it's like that that's a that's an insane choice to expect anybody to make for what But.

00:33:22
Speaker 3: I guess I guess going back to John's point, it's like what comes first, the chicken or the egg or what comes first?

00:33:28
Speaker 1: Like what's where's the problem?

00:33:29
Speaker 2: Lie?

00:33:30
Speaker 3: And you know, maybe talking to the players a little bit more about how we can make it better. And certainly, look, I'm as you said, I'm not against any of these players going making a million and a half dollars to like, if you're getting paid that, go for it.

00:33:42
Speaker 1: Or five million dollars if you're Yannick and Carlos.

00:33:44
Speaker 3: They deserve it and they're getting you know, Netflix paid for it to put it on their on their screens. People watched it, so you know, Netflix wants to get a little bit more into sports and into tennis.

00:33:56
Speaker 1: Go for it.

00:33:57
Speaker 3: It's only going to betterment. It's only betterment for the players in the future of the sport.

00:34:01
Speaker 1: So I'm all for it.

00:34:02
Speaker 3: But make sure that like the Vienna's and the Basels and you know, the Tokyo's and all this where players are pulling out, the tours have to really make sure that that's not happening and figure out a way to make it better for everybody, including the people that are putting money up at These tournaments are a lot.

00:34:19
Speaker 2: Of money, and I think for me, there's two ways to go about this, and I think, you know, here's the portion where I try to be positive and opera solutions instead of just complaining, which is you know, I think it is very realistic, especially if the tours merge in some meaningful way, that the schedule will get shorter, there will be fewer tournaments. And say what you will about the two week long Masters one thousands. I think a lot of people think they're too long. I can understand that we're not going to have that debate at this moment because we've talked about it a lot on this show. But I think for me, the the when you say the sacrifice that smaller tournaments will have to make by not being a Master's one thousand or a Slam, which is true, if those gain and importance are remain most important, then somebody's got to be a loser. What I would love to see the tours do in that regard is not necessarily jets in those tournaments, because we know for a fact that the players ranked outside of the top fifty desperately want to be able to play every week, to make money, to be able to get their points, and everything that goes along with just being a touring professional that we don't necessarily see because they're not necessarily the ones who are most vocal at the top, which is the tours need to definitively invest in making the tournament themselves, Tennis, the tennis itself, and the players more interesting and noteworthy than just the top ten players. Right now, tennis doesn't have a very good marketing system and the players really market themselves, so they want to pat themselves on the back for being like, we have the most dynamic, interesting athletes, and it's like, yeah, not because of you. What your job is is to make sure that whether Vienna has number fifty through number one hundred and fifty in their draws, it is seen as just a valid and interesting and great imistration of professional tennis. As if you had four gas ranked in the top ten. Now that's a long road to hoe, and that's a very sort of subtle critique. But I think tennis itself, if you have a tennis tournament in your town, it doesn't matter if you've never heard of a single person hitting a ball, they will be the best tennis player you've ever seen. And I think until tennis as an establishment starts selling this sport is that then it's going to be to have and have nots even more drastically than already is now, especially in a new reformed universe where the two second tier tournaments don't even get a second thought. And so for me, the world of tennis needs to do a much better job of marketing the experience of seeing live tennis at a high level, and it doesn't matter if there's a name brand player in the draw or not.

00:36:43
Speaker 1: It just helps. Okay, So let's talk a little bit about the ladies.

00:36:48
Speaker 3: I want to give a shout out to Blinda Benchicch who came through a just an exhaustive week this week to win in Tokyo at a tournament that I used to love playing in the Pan Pacific, but it used to be at the start of the year. Now it's at the end of the year because all the women's tournaments are in Asia. But Belinda Benchicic who survived a match point down against Mukhova and then comes through after being on court for like almost six hours before the final even started, and she gets the job done in straight sets against Oskova, who played about thirty five minutes to get to the final because she had a default from Ribak in the semi finals and the Rebeki Na solidified her spot off into the WTA finals.

00:37:29
Speaker 2: All right, let's talk there. I'll start a new link. So good. No, actually we've got most of that. You said the Oskova played about eleven minutes to get to the final, and then I think you're going to make one final point about Benchec.

00:37:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so I just want to give a huge shout out to Belinda Benchicch that's the year outside of like the top five hundred, I believe, and finishes like this, a player that we've all always known is such a great player. I knew that Noscova was going to have a hard time against her because Belinda Benchicz is that type of player that if you hit hard to her, she was going to come back because she just has that beautiful ability to take a ball really fast on a fast court, which Tokyo is and Noskova hadn't really played a lot of tennis getting into the final, whereas Benchitch, on the other hand, had played oodles and hours and hours of tennis, including that epic match against Mukhova. And so I'm just like, that's just huge. You know, comes back has a kid. I think she's really I think it's really helped her. I think a lot of people have come back what must have had a baby. Their the perception on things is so much different. And she was a little petulant from time to time in the court, whereas I think she's certainly improved on that now being a mom. She's just like, I can't act like that like, I've got a little girl like watching me play tennis. Now, so yeah, I mean her excitement level when she won that time it was pretty big. This is a you know, former well never former always gold medal champion at the Olympics and certainly likes to play in Japan because that's where she picks up a lot of her big time, having won the Tokyo Olympic Games. So so yeah, a huge effort from her. It was, you know, possible that she was going to play Rebarkin in the final instead of Noskova, but Ribarkin had pulled out with an injury to her back. Now I just wonder she had made the WTA finals by winning that quarterfinal match and getting to the semifinals, and you just wonder if she's like I gotta get to read see a piece out or if she you know, it was a legit back problem. And I'm not saying it wasn't because you know, likelihoods it was because you always want to win a tournament and she was probably well and truly the favorite to win that tournament in Tokyo if she'd made the finals. Now, certainly you would think that she would want to play because she hasn't had a great She ends up making the WTAF finals, but for her standards, she hasn't won a tournament.

00:39:47
Speaker 1: For a little bit.

00:39:48
Speaker 3: It would feel really good winning a tournament then going in to play the the WTAF finals. So you know, the back is a bit of a concern going into the WTAF finals.

00:39:58
Speaker 1: Ye about Andreva not being able to get a visa, So we just.

00:40:02
Speaker 2: Kind of bring that up. I mean, it is so hard to fathom, and it really makes the irregularity of visa problems which pop up occasionally time to time, usually not to Japan. Usually it's a little bit more. You know, Russia has been an issue in years past. Obviously that's less of an issue now that there's no main major tournaments out there, you know, China, obviously there's like political hotspots, so we can get into. But the fact that like they're just like a paperwork problem, it seems it's hard to know whether that was Mira Andreva and her team not filing for a visa application in time. It's hard to imagine they would have rejected her. But we learned this because our friend Anastasia, who we did a live podcast with in the spring around the French Open was tweeting about it being nuts that the WTA, you know, final contender Andreva couldn't get to Japan, and our friend Ellen Perez was the one who was like, yeah, she had a visa issue. So Twitter did a little bit of reporting because of Anastasia's tweeting, which and again just so random. And again you don't know if Andreava, even if she shows up, is going to get that far enough in the tournament to win. You know, this is when all those scenarios come into place. Probably she would be in the finals or at least in contention for them, but you never know. Things have a way of you know, being surprising. But yeah, no, it is crazy that the thing that blocked her was when it came down to it, paperwork.

00:41:34
Speaker 3: Related Caitlin, she was six points, okay, six points behind Jasmin Paulini.

00:41:43
Speaker 2: It's crazy.

00:41:44
Speaker 1: If she wins one round in Tokyo she is in What happened?

00:41:50
Speaker 2: I mean, I know you don't know, but like speculate.

00:41:54
Speaker 3: I think that she didn't expect to need to go to Japan and so did and have the visa in time, because it takes sometimes weeks to get a visa and approved and particularly being Russian, it's more of a nightmare, as we have heard from our fellow guests that have had we've had.

00:42:15
Speaker 1: On the pod. So I don't think she expected.

00:42:20
Speaker 3: To need to go to Japan and then all of a sudden the last minute trying to scramble to get a visa to get into the tournament and it wasn't possible. But you know, Elena Rabakina jumped over her. Okay, because Mira Andreva currently, if you look at the points after the tournaments were finished, is forty three hundred and nineteen points and Rebarkina is forty three one hundred and fifty points and jumped ahead of Mattie Keys and ahead of Paulini by.

00:42:50
Speaker 1: Like mire points. We're talking like twenty points separates four players.

00:42:56
Speaker 3: And that happened a couple of years ago when I was coaching Carolina Police Gover same thing. There was four players literally going for the last like three spots, and Elena Switzerlina, interestingly enough, was the person that was looking through the glasshouse at everyone going to play Moscow and she couldn't get into Moscow. So she went to Bali on a holiday and said, fuck it, I'm out of here, and then all of those players lost.

00:43:21
Speaker 1: In the first round.

00:43:22
Speaker 3: Carolina Police go Over lost first round in Moscow, Sloan Stevens last first round in Moscow, and I'm trying to remember the other one who lost first round of Moscow, so they only got one point, so she stayed in. And then Simona Hallap who was ahead of everybody, pulled out.

00:43:37
Speaker 1: Because she hurt herself. So they all.

00:43:39
Speaker 3: Got in, including Switzelina, who was on a holiday in Bali not caring and got in.

00:43:44
Speaker 1: And guess what she did.

00:43:47
Speaker 2: That's good, that's a good lesson in Uh, you know, anything could happen chaos, I will see. Let me see something actually, which kind of to the point of being in Bali and by the time you decide you don't care, you're so relaxed and maybe you just show up for the tour finals and you play your face off. As you just said. I don't think it's a bad thing that Miron Dreva did not get qualified for Riady And we'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. I love Miro Andreva. She is one of my favorite players, and to me, she is what I was saying about the ATP being a sort of outside of the top two, kind of a wasteland of could have, should have and would have. But Mirror Andreva is dynamite. She is going to be great. She has moments of being great, as we have seen, certainly in the beginning part of this year, you know, in the Middle East and in uh in Ewells beating Sablanca, which is like one of the most definitive losses that I think Sebolanka has taken, and certainly a definitive win from Mirion Dreva. She has looked so bad, and I don't mean bad in the tennis spence. I think bad in the soul sense. In the last six to eight weeks. I think she is post and I think spiritually she needs to go to Bali and she needs to be like, you know what, I'm still a teen. I've had a great start to this year, a lot of pressure mounted, and then when push came to shove, I didn't get it done. I didn't show up fully prepared and or I kind of threw some fits on the court. And I'm going to give her a big pass because she's young, and I think part of her emotion is in fact what fuels her fantastic, brilliant and varied tennis that I like so much, and we haven't ever seen it really an outburst directed anybody, but it seems like her box and her own self. It feels more Medvedevian than it does like her, you know, sort of getting in a fight with another player. But I just think she's young. She'll be back there, she'll be back in this position. Hopefully the six points difference will, you know, not reappear on the Ledger state. But I think it's not a bad thing that she's shutting down our season and she's got to go like cool out and start again.

00:45:58
Speaker 3: You know how much any times she's probably thought about that one match that she just tanked because she just had the sits and she was done with it, right, And you think, if I just not lost my shit there, I would be in the WTA finals.

00:46:11
Speaker 2: And what a good lesson to learn as a teenager as opposed to a thirty five year old journey person on your last tournament or two, your last year or two. She won't make that mistake again. And I think the larger point I'm making almost said meta again, the larger point I'm making is I think she has a lot of tennis in front of her. Obviously, her career is just getting started, and she's got all the tools, and she needs to make sure that the body and the mind are sound before she goes and deploys those tools. So losing and learning a very painful lesson, which is don't take a match, get your paperwork together, don't take anything for granted. Those are three lessons wrapped up in one fell swoop. And yeah, she's going to end her season earlier than she would have liked to and miss out on a giant paycheck which anybody gets just shown up for the finals. But what a good time to learn that lesson when you're young, and not when you know it's the end of your career and the last you know what I should have Cutter is going to really hire you for the rest of your life. You know, she has a chance to quarts, correct.

00:47:06
Speaker 3: Her and Rublever off to the Maldives because ruby Lev decided to shut his down because he said he was burnout, he was tired, he was mentally exhausted, he needed a break from tennis. And we have seen just like Andreva through the year, like just some outbursts on the tennis court where you just like, there needs to be a mental check on these guys, you know what I mean. Medvedev's same thing. I mean, heal the latter part of this year, there was some stuff that he did on court and listen, hey pot Colin Cattle, Like, I'm not saying I was an angel on the court, but I've saw some stuff from these guys.

00:47:39
Speaker 1: It was even worse than me. So I'm like that I agree with you in a sense.

00:47:45
Speaker 3: I agree with it for sure. I think it's a moment that you'll look back on and be like, damn it. Like, if I want to be the best, beat the best, I got to be playing against the best all the time. And not being in the WTA finals is going to hurt because, as you said, it's an enormous amount of money.

00:48:01
Speaker 1: But you know, someone like jazzmn.

00:48:02
Speaker 3: Paulini, who had a bit of a tough year comparative to last year where she made two major finals. She battled her way through, you know, wins rome, battles through some big matches, doesn't quit on certain matches, and she's gotten herself at the last spot in the WTA finals.

00:48:16
Speaker 1: Because of that. Yeah, and she certainly got her.

00:48:20
Speaker 3: Visas organized a little bit better, but certainly that would be and you know, just looking at the points, Caitlin Blinda Benchic finished eleven in the race before you know, the final tally. There certainly tournaments still going on, but the fact that she got to eleven is unbelievable. That just shows you how like solid she's been all year, considering she's come back from having a baby, and you know, as she's young, so that really helps after you've had a kid, like Kim Cleisters came back and won major titles after having her first baby because she had a baby when she was in her mid twenties, you know, Osaka interesting to see how she kind of turns up next year.

00:48:57
Speaker 1: She finished sixteenth on the.

00:48:58
Speaker 3: List, which is still pretty goo, but you know, there were moments where we thought she was going to really make a run.

00:49:04
Speaker 1: I think that.

00:49:05
Speaker 3: Loss in Canada to Mumbucco was sort of like a tough one for her probably to take still, but you know, having said that, like even Fitzlina, she shut her season down early.

00:49:18
Speaker 1: Was she ended up being fourteenth on the list.

00:49:21
Speaker 3: So that you know, all these players that really I think the most impressive player to meet this year, that made it into the WTA Finals without questions starting the year at you know what, you start the year every year zero points, right, and then ranking is different to the WTA ranking to get into the WTA Finals, that is purely based on how you do starting January one, whereas the rotating the ranking system as a rotation of the twelve month rotation. So if someone won Tokyo last year and they didn't win it this year, that drops off. So depending on how you do, you'll leave the drop or go forward. Unless you won the tournament, you're not going anywhere. But Amanda Anasamova to me is just the MVP of the WTA.

00:50:05
Speaker 1: Tour this year.

00:50:06
Speaker 2: Agree like agree.

00:50:07
Speaker 3: Finishing fourth on the race and finishing seven hundred points ahead of Jessica Bagoula at five seven hundred points is a lot, so that is incredibly, incredibly impressive. She ended up, you know, seven hundred points ish behind Coco Goff. But Coco won the French Open and had a fabulous year herself.

00:50:31
Speaker 1: But Arena Sablanca.

00:50:33
Speaker 3: Ninety eight hundred points well and truly above everybody else. He gives you on ticket number two. But Amanda Anasimova for me, MVP getting into the WTA finals huge interructs to her.

00:50:43
Speaker 2: Agree, Agree, And I think the four American women I don't really care that much about like jinguistic nationalistic stuff so much. But I do think like this is the first year there.

00:50:52
Speaker 3: I know, because sometimes you just like, I'm Canadian, but now the American.

00:50:57
Speaker 2: Side listen, America is not you know, shakes as a brand right now, so it's not like I'm trying to join the team. But I also think like tennis is so wonderful because it's like, oh, look at all these amazing places that are represented. You know, You've got people from tiny countries where it means so much to everybody and everyone knows who they are, Whereas you know, I think if Jpeg were to walk down the street, you know a lot of people in America wouldn't recognize her, right, So like that's you got all all that. And I do think like the four US women in the in the top qualifying group here are all very different. Like it's so interesting that they all earned their stays in a different way. You know. Jessica Poogola has had a very consistent year. She's gone deep in tournaments throughout surfaces, and sizes of tournaments and portions of the schedule, whereas obviously Mattie Keys has had and Coco have had parts of the year that have gone off better than others. You know, Maddie in the in the Swing down Under and Coco you know on Clay. Obviously, what I think and why I agree with you that Anissi Mova's is probably the most impressive. It's just she's at the beginning of this year to where she is now, the depth and importance of the places that she did well, not only in this Slam sense, but also just the high stakes of the matches that it took to get her and even the matches she lost, she improved upon them. And I actually think kind of to my point about why it's cool to have a WTA finals and why the WTA is so so exciting compared to the men, because I think, like Ansi Mova has just as much of a chance. Despite the point differentially you just listed Arina, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if any one of these eight women won this thing A and B. I think I actually kind of favor somebody like an Ees Mova over Arina said, like an ego, not because their bests are different, but just because that's kind of the unpredictable thing that can happen in this sort of end of year tournament, and I think that's why it makes it worth watching. Whereas you know, for me with the men, it's like I might watch the finals maybe, but I do I need to see another Carlos and Yannick match. Not really, I'm good I saw that.

00:53:00
Speaker 1: A No, I didn't. That's no.

00:53:03
Speaker 2: I know that that's a controverty controversial take, and most people will disagree with that.

00:53:06
Speaker 3: You and I different because there's a lot of the matches through the tournament that I'm not going to be that interested in watching.

00:53:11
Speaker 1: Be real blunt.

00:53:13
Speaker 2: With the men, like I will watch every one of the WTA matches. I will the men's I will watch maybe the finals or if somebody if FAA looks like he can make a run, because I really like it, you know, like I'm not saying I'm not going to watch.

00:53:25
Speaker 1: It, but he is to get in. He's not even close to in.

00:53:28
Speaker 2: I know that's kind of but my point is like, there's there's the unpredictability in general a WT is why I watch it and I think the women have done extremely well to present themselves as a very diverse and interesting group, any of whom could walk away with this thing. What about a Paulini victory, that'd be awesome.

00:53:46
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:53:46
Speaker 3: So looking at the men's, you know, Massetti is the last one, and he's four hundred points above Rude and five hundred points give or take above Felix, as you alive seen. Obviously, with a thousand points on the line, certainly you make the finals, you get five hundred points. And so when you think about it, if Marceti wins a match or two, it's gonna be hard to jump over him if you're Rude and Faa. So it looks like the men's might be a little bit set, but certainly depends. We saw what fa did a number of years ago by winning Paris indoors. He won a lot of in his very good indoors, but also pulling out against Mona.

00:54:25
Speaker 1: What's going on.

00:54:26
Speaker 3: Physically, so you know he's going to have to have the tournament of his life, which he did a couple of years ago.

00:54:30
Speaker 1: He beat Novak in the final.

00:54:32
Speaker 3: Novak's a question as well, like going into the ATP finals not having a lot of tennis under his belt either certainly Sarah Owns, Fritz, Alex Di minor Ben Shelton's a little bit of an unknown as well.

00:54:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's gonna happen there.

00:54:48
Speaker 3: But just back to the women, Yeah, I mean, I'll tell you like, there is not one player that can't win that tournament. And Jasmine Palini, who's the last one in, has played pretty well over the last couple of months. So Maddie Keys is probably the one that hasn't played that well over the last couple of months.

00:55:06
Speaker 1: But Rebarkin is certainly looking good. Jpeg always Coco's won a tournament, you know in Wuhan.

00:55:13
Speaker 3: Sabalanka is going to be the one to beat IGIs Jontek.

00:55:16
Speaker 1: You never know.

00:55:16
Speaker 3: And of course Amanda and Anismova, I think one thing just looking at and talking and finishing up on the women, Amanda Anasmova talk about somebody who said, you know what if I don't want to play, She wins the tournament in.

00:55:30
Speaker 1: China and then goes home. She doesn't stay out there, she doesn't keep playing, she doesn't play the next week.

00:55:35
Speaker 3: She just goes home and she says, yep, because she has understood if I'm not mentally there, I don't want to play.

00:55:44
Speaker 1: I will take eight to nine months off of the tour if I feel like I'm not emotionally able to handle this, and I think that is it is a great lesson for everyone out there, particularly the young players. Mira Andreva could be one to say, I don't feel like playing for a couple of months. I've got millions of dollars in the bank. I know how good I am, but I'm.

00:56:07
Speaker 3: Not going to be my best if I'm not emotionally and physically ready to go and grind to win a WT one thousand or a w T five hundred tournament having to play against the best players in the world from the start of the tournament. So I think Amanda Anisimova, just like ash Barty did number of years ago, stopping a couple of years because she didn't want to be out there and didn't want to play. Find your inner piece and find your inner strength to want to be out there and grind because you are too good to be losing first and second round because you get the shits and you don't want.

00:56:38
Speaker 1: To be there, so don't play.

00:56:40
Speaker 3: I agree, and then decide I'm going to play, and I want to win the tournament, and that is what Amanda Anisimova has done this whole entire year. Yah coming back last year and then establishing establishing herself is one of the best players in the world, and we all know when she's at her best she can beat anybody. No one hits the ball more pure than she does. If she's not a mentally and emotionally ready and wanting to grind and play, she doesn't play.

00:57:05
Speaker 1: And that's a really smart idea.

00:57:07
Speaker 2: I think you just summed up to me what is the sort of post US Open malaise, some of the generational highs and lows, and also a takeaway for everyone following along at home, certainly for me, which is like, if you're going to get out of the bed and step on a tennis court, come to win, and if you're not capable of doing that and you can't get it together, that's okay. Just don't call it. Call it. It's okay, call it.

00:57:36
Speaker 1: And just be like, go to the Maldives.

00:57:38
Speaker 2: Go to the Maldives. All right, I'm going to go to the Maldives metaphorically right now because in your mind, yeah, me too, some other stuff to do. But as ever, this has been a very useful chat. Is there anything else that we didn't cover that you feel like as a parting shot we need to get into. No, just the weather's beautiful and let's go enjoy the sunshine.

00:57:55
Speaker 1: I think we'll covered it really well.

00:57:56
Speaker 3: I think we started the way we always do, which is just letting everybody know what the whether. There's like outside here in New York, very cold, and I'm looking forward to I'm looking forward to the WTA Finals. My only issue is it it's a really bad time for me to watch on television because it's in the Middle East. And thank God for Tennis Channels. Wrap up, I do love the match in fifteen minutes.

00:58:22
Speaker 2: Favorite thing is great.

00:58:24
Speaker 3: I will say this is my favorite thing on Tennis Channel when I miss matches and I can sit down and watch it. Kudos to the Tennis Channel for doing it.

00:58:31
Speaker 1: I think I like the highlights.

00:58:32
Speaker 2: That Christina Thompson was that was her innovation. Really yeah, digital digital Douien over there at Tennis Channel. We have given through the years TC a lot of shit, and I will say it is really really really stepped up and the digital in your face, the app, everything has gotten so much better, and the fifteen minute matches for me are a godsend because also I don't know what I'm going to be able to sit down and watch tennis, and so now I can just get caught up. It's great.

00:59:00
Speaker 3: I would like to make one suggestion to the match in fifteen minutes. I think it's fantastic because there have been particularly when you're playing tournaments in China and the Middle East, as an American watcher, it's hard to get up at three in the morning all the time, right and watch tennis. So the match in fifteen minutes is so fantastic. Just I know it might be AI generated. I don't know, like they pick the best points of the game and they put it up there. I'm not sure, but I would make one request is that you don't miss a break point, and you do not miss a set point. And most of the time they don't miss a set point, but on the match recaps of the top fift you know the fifteen match, don't miss the break points because it's nice to know how somebody got broke broken, particularly in the men's game. Right. So yeah, so that's my only suggestion for them, But other than that, it's so fun. I get put on the app and you have everything. I mean they are behind the scenes watching people in the gym right now. If you want to do.

01:00:01
Speaker 1: They still have.

01:00:02
Speaker 2: Did they still have your interview with Carlos soft Forest cruising down the Brooklyn Bridge up on the app? I bet they do.

01:00:07
Speaker 1: It's somewhere out there, so I for you didn't see it.

01:00:10
Speaker 3: You can see me tal Carlos before the tournament started when I said, well, Carlos, you always get tattoos when you win a major, so I think you should get And I turned around and pointed at the Brooklyn Bridge and said, I think you should get that tattooed on you. And I said if you win, and I said, no, when you win. So I think I planted the seed. I did my Oprah Winfrey moment there of like what she call it, the board, putting it on.

01:00:35
Speaker 2: The board boarded him.

01:00:38
Speaker 3: A vision, boarded him that he was going to get the Brooklyn Bridge when he won the tournament before the tournament started on the postmatch interview. I don't know, I have to check with him, but he said on ESPN's coverage at the end on the desk that he made it back before the tournament and he's getting the Brooklyn Beach.

01:00:58
Speaker 1: So there you go.

01:01:00
Speaker 3: That was my interpretation of how Carlos would say it in English.

01:01:04
Speaker 2: But yes, truly terrible impersonation.

01:01:07
Speaker 1: You're welcome everybody out there.

01:01:09
Speaker 3: But I think that the bottom line is I will have to have him show me on his body and I will take a photo and I will put it out there. And also hopefully maybe one day dreams can come true. We can get him on the pod.

01:01:22
Speaker 2: Love that all right? If I that?

01:01:23
Speaker 1: If not, go and find it on the Tennis channel.

01:01:26
Speaker 2: App fantastic, all right, good go to the Maldives or or sure.

01:01:32
Speaker 1: I'm just going to go to breakfast.

01:01:33
Speaker 2: Nothing, all right, awesome, Renee creating with you.

01:01:36
Speaker 1: Check it next week's out, see you next week, everybody, they