#40 Barbara Shutt

Hello, Did you just butt dial me? Because I have 0:00:08.240 --> 0:00:11.720 on my call display that a call from your number 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:15.000 but got my numbers blocked. That's how I know it's you. 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:17.040 You're the only person I know with a block number. 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:18.920 Is it where we have to go today? 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:19.880 Wait? 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:21.799 A couple of days ago, I think it was like 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:23.599 yesterday morning. Were you thinking about me? 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:25.959 No? 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:29.440 I just thought that would be weird because I was 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:31.080 thinking about you, and I thought, huh, wouldn't it be 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:33.160 funny if she was thinking about me at the same time? 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:46.480 Shut from Gimblet Media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight. 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:51.400 Today's episode the first in a two part series, Barbara 0:00:51.560 --> 0:01:10.800 Part one. Barbara shut right after the break. Hello, Becky, Hi, 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:15.600 this is Becky, my mother in law. Last April, at 0:01:15.640 --> 0:01:18.360 the start of the pandemic, my wife Emily told me 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:21.959 that her mom had a mystery to solve. Phoner. Emily 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:26.399 said immediately it was all very dramatic. How are you? 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:30.920 I'm fine, Becky, it should be said, is not the 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:34.760 dramatic type. There's a famous story about how while making 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:37.720 brunch for the family, her oven caught fire and as 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:40.880 everyone ran around phoning nine to one one searching for 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:44.480 the instruction manual to the fire extinguisher. Becky sat at 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:49.160 the dining room table silently, eating fruit salad. So while 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:51.800 Becky may not have a flare for the dramatic, her 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:54.440 daughter does. There's no time to waste. 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:59.440 Emily said, these events happened fifty two years ago. By 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:02.440 the way, so wait a second. 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:04.760 Emily said that they have like She was like, you 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:05.720 better pounce on this. 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:08.040 There were new revelations today. 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:08.720 Oh, I see. 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:16.160 Okay, how about an hour or two hours ago? Yeah, 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:17.840 did she tell you anything about it? 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:20.520 She told me nothing. She should just call just call 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:21.000 my mother. 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:23.880 Okay, you want to hear this story from the beginning. 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:25.800 Yes, that's a good place to start. 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:26.080 Okay. 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:31.040 I'm trying to help out with CEO's homeschooling just a 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:31.519 little bit. 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:36.400 THEO is my nephew and Becky's grandson. Last April, his 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:39.600 school shut down because of COVID, so Becky stepped into 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:41.000 tutorim over zoom. 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:42.400 So THEO. 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:47.880 Do you know what the word biography means? Biography is 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:51.120 a book written by the person that it's about. 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:56.200 No, yes, if I wrote a book. Becky and THEO 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:58.959 met weekly, and for each lesson she gave him a 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:00.000 small homework assigned. 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:03.640 So the first assignment was to write a description you know, 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:06.120 a person, a place, to thing, just you know, a 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:07.640 couple paragraph descriptions. 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:11.320 THEO and Becky each did the assignment and then shared 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:14.800 their essays. THEO wrote about a World Cup soccer game, 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:16.800 and Becky, what. 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:21.200 Popped into my head was this friendship that I had 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:24.520 in nineteen sixty eight, before you were born. 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:30.080 In nineteen sixty eight, Becky was nineteen years old. She 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:32.760 lived in smalltown Minnesota and had never been out of 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:36.120 the country. She wanted to see Europe, so she linked 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:38.240 up with a work abroad program that got her a 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:41.080 job at a commercial laundromat in Copenhagen. 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:43.280 But it was kind of lonely because there was a 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:46.080 language barrier and there was no one else my age, 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:49.920 so it was kind of lonely. And then the third 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:52.360 week another American girl came. 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:54.560 What is her name? 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:57.720 Barbara shut. 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:06.080 My wife, Emily says that when she was growing up, 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:09.480 about once a year, Becky would remove the pictures above 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:14.040 the living room couch and project slides from Copenhagen. Emily 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:17.240 called this Becky Time a journey back to when Becky 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:21.400 was Becky not Mom, And right there with Becky. Hovering 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:25.520 above the couch was Barbara Shut. Becky and Barbara Shut 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:29.120 on a park bench eating sandwiches, Becky and Barbara Shut 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:32.240 partying in a room full of young Danes. Do you 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:34.160 have it in front of you, the thing that you. 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:36.000 Write my story? Yeah? I do. 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:38.960 Would you feel comfortable reading it? 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:45.080 Yeah? Here it is Looking for adventure. In the summer 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:48.280 of nineteen sixty eight, I found a job in Copenhagen, Denmark. 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:51.120 The first two weeks were lonely, but when a new 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:55.760 worker started the factory, everything changed. Her name was Barbara Shut. 0:04:56.640 --> 0:04:59.560 She was thin and wiry, with short, dark hair and 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:02.480 big eye. She was twenty one years old and had 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:06.200 just graduated from college. She was rich. Her mother was 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:10.360 a doctor and her father a retired college professor. Because 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:13.400 her mother was a doctor, she loved dispensing medical advice, 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:16.360 whether it was asked for or not. The only advice 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:19.080 that stuck with me was how to pop a ZiT 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:23.520 with a razor blade, something she did regularly. She loved checkers, 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:25.400 and when she couldn't find a checker set in all 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:28.760 of Copenhagen, she made the board in pieces out of cardboard. 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:31.839 I hated checkers, but in the way that rich girls 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:34.600 who are doted on by their parents can be. She 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:39.160 was very persuasive. Barbara always knew what she wanted, so 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:42.040 we played checkers. She bought a bike as soon as 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:45.799 she arrived and rode all over Copenhagen. She only managed 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:48.839 to persuade me to ride with her once, though I 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:52.640 was terrified of the traffic. We spent a lovely Saturday 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:55.080 biking all over the city until the bike she had 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:59.480 borrowed for me gave out. For eight hours each weekday, 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:02.919 we were at the same table folding bath powels. It 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:05.720 was a boring, mind numbing job, but I loved it 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:08.920 because we had so much fun. We had silly nicknames 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:11.400 for all the other workers. We sang to the pop 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:14.880 music coming over the loudspeaker. We laughed our way through 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:19.159 each day. As the time in Copenhagen was coming to 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:23.080 an end, we were excitedly planning our next adventure. Barbara, 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:25.800 who loved horses more than anything in the world, was 0:06:25.839 --> 0:06:30.280 going to a fancy riding cap in England. I left first, 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:35.400 riding the train across Italy, Austria, Switzerland. I missed the laughter, 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:39.000 the singing along to Winchester Cathedral a dozen times a day, 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:43.359 our endless checker games. She was my best friend. But 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:44.520 it wasn't forever. 0:06:47.080 --> 0:06:54.560 That's lovely, Becky. It wasn't forever, Becky says, because at 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:57.920 the end of the summer, in spite of their closeness, we. 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:01.159 Never exchanged any information, anything, phone numbers or anything. 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:03.440 Why do you think that was? 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:10.440 I think it was because we we didn't. Our lives 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:11.360 seemed so different. 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:17.440 Becky was from Waconia, Minnesota, population two thousand. Barbara was 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:22.080 from Cincinnati. Her parents were professionals. They had four cars, 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:27.040 five TVs, a horse. But Becky wasn't envious of Barbara's 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:30.920 material possessions. What she did envy, though, was Barbara's close 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:34.280 relationship with her dad. Becky had lost her own father 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:35.600 a few years earlier. 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:39.000 She was very close to her father. She talked about 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:43.160 him a lot. She just was so in love with 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:47.680 her father, and he wrote her these long, beautiful letters 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:49.200 every single day. 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:53.560 When Becky left for Copenhagen, she was still feeling grief 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:57.200 over her father's death. For Becky, those letters had to 0:07:57.240 --> 0:08:00.560 have seemed every bit as magical as Tivoli guard lit 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:01.240 up at night. 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:07.960 So I was writing about her, and I thought, you know, 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:12.400 in all these years, I've never tried to find out 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:16.080 what happened to her, and so I googled her and 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:19.200 I found her immediately. It's easy to find people who are. 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:26.920 Dead, and she is dead, which brings us to the mystery. 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:28.000 Becky stumbled upon. 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:33.960 She died in twenty twelve at age sixty seven, and 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:40.760 I read the obituary and I thought, wait a minute. 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:43.560 Becky's sadness over the death of her long lost friend 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:49.520 was suddenly overshadowed by another feeling confusion. The more Becky read, 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:52.959 the more the obituary seemed to contradict everything Barbara had 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:55.600 told her that summer. There was no mention of growing 0:08:55.720 --> 0:08:59.360 up in Cincinnati, no mention of her doctor mother, and 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:00.600 most of. 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:04.760 All, there is no mention of a father whatsoever. You know, 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:07.640 it had the people that preceded her in death no father, 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:11.640 the people who survived her no father, And there is 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:14.680 no mention of a father. And that is what she 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:18.880 talked about constantly. She was and I'm reading this to 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:21.720 you now from the obituary. She was raised at the 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:27.679 Galileean Children's Home near Corbyn Kentucky, where she also attended 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:32.040 primary school and had numerous friends. Does that sound too 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:34.600 like she was raised there? I mean it says raised. 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:38.400 Does that mean orphanage? To me, it sounded like orphanage. 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:46.920 So it doesn't sound like anything I knew about her. 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:54.400 My thought was, wait what? I was kind of stunned 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:57.360 when I read this. The details were so different from 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:00.720 what I would have expected. Then I started thinking, well, 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:04.760 I'm stupid. Why didn't I figure out if she was 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:08.240 so rich, why was she working this menial job she 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:14.440 could have probably afforded to. Yeah, yeah, I think that 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:22.760 what she had told me was mostly fiction. I don't 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:24.600 know how I should think about it. Yeah, was she 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:29.480 just playing me for a stap? I mean, why if 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:31.040 that's it, it's a cruel thing to do. 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:36.240 If you were able to find somebody who is still 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:39.040 around who can speak about her and tell you about her, like, 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:40.199 what would you want to know? 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:46.520 Well, first of all, I want to know the truth. 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:52.040 You know, what was her life? If it wasn't what 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:56.640 she was telling me it was, what was it and 0:10:56.720 --> 0:10:59.760 why was she telling me the things that she was 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:01.960 I don't know. 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:06.440 At the bottom of the online obituary is a comments 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:10.000 section where several people have posted short notes about Barbara. 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:13.360 Becky figures there must be someone among them who knows 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:16.800 the truth. If only some brave soul would reach out 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:20.160 and ask, some brave soul other than Becky. 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:22.840 I would never, in a million years do it, Jonathan, 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:24.080 how well do you know me? 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:28.800 Becky doesn't like to make a scene, and if there 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:31.679 is a scene, that's when she reaches for the fruit 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:33.800 salad I want. 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:36.920 But okay, else to get it? 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:42.800 Sure? Sure shirt? You know if at any points you're 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:45.680 made uncomfortable and need to hide behind my skirts, I'm 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:48.079 very happy to supply the skirts. 0:11:48.240 --> 0:12:00.240 Oh yeah, I need skirts. 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:06.120 A biography is a book that someone else has written 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:10.680 about another person. Yes, if an obituary is a kind 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:15.160 of biography, then an online obituary is a collaborative one. 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:18.559 People leave comments that exist as windows onto a life. 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:22.720 But the comments on Barbara's obituary page contain no stories 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:26.200 or anecdotes, nothing to shed light on who she really was. 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:30.080 There is one comment, though, that feels like a lead. 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:33.240 It's from a guy who would have known Barbara around 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:35.960 the same time Becky did. He says they were good 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:42.880 friends from college. His name is Chris. I have questions 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:45.360 for Chris, so I send him an email telling him 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:49.160 about Becky inter connection to Barbara. But after about a 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:52.360 week without any response, I dial a telephone number I 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:56.040 find online. Someone picks up on the fourth ring, and 0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:59.800 what ensues is one of the stranger conversations I've ever had. 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:06.800 Is this Chris? I ask yes? Chris says, I sent 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:11.640 you an email last week? Do I have the right person? Yes? 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:16.040 He says, I got your name from Barbara's obituary page. 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:23.199 I say yes. He says, Chris isn't what you'd call chatty. 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:26.520 When I ask a question, he replies with only yes 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:30.359 or no. When I ask if he can elaborate, he bristles. 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:34.040 I won't give you things, he says, but I will 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:37.720 verify what things are true or not true. There's a 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:41.439 deep throat quality to the interview. For whatever reason, Chris 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:45.760 has cast me as the intrepid journalist, himself the shadowy source. 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:48.920 In fact, when I ask Chris if I can record 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:53.079 him for broadcast, he brings up Watergate and threatens legal action. 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:56.800 But in spite of that, there were moments when Chris 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:59.640 seems eager to talk, like this is the call he's 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:08.679 been waiting, eating by the phone four for fifty years. 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:11.560 In the end, Chris and I talk for over an 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:14.880 hour and a half during that time, and almost in 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:18.520 spite of himself, he reveals details about Barbara's life that 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:22.240 are precise and top of mind like. At one point, 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:25.960 in response to a question about Barbara's childhood, Chris points 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:29.160 me to a nineteen forty's issue of The Saturday Evening Post. 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:33.520 It features an article about the Galileian Children's Home. The 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:37.000 Galilean Children's Home, he says, is the orphanage in Kentucky 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:41.640 where Barbara was raised. So it seems the obituary was right. 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:45.800 Contrary to what Barbara told Becky and Copenhagen, she was 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:49.720 actually an orphan. She had no fancy home, no doting father. 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:53.000 I'm not looking forward to telling my mother in law 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:59.840 that her friend Barbara lied to her. But then Chris 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:03.680 tell me something else. At the age of seventeen, Barbara 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:07.560 was adopted by a couple named Charles and Jane Shutt. 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:11.640 The Shots were wealthy, They lived in Cincinnati and had 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:15.440 a horse. Her adopted mother was a doctor, and her 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:18.440 adopted father, who Chris tells me Barbara was very close 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:22.240 with was a college dean. Those were the parents that 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:26.800 Barbara always talked about in Copenhagen, her adopted parents. So 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:30.280 while the story from the obituary is true, the story 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:34.640 Barbara told Becky is also true. I asked Chris if 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:38.400 he knows why Barbara's adopted family wasn't mentioned in her obituary, 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:42.880 not that I would talk about. Chris says, would you 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:46.080 say that Barbara's life after the adoption was a happy one? 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:51.600 I ask until she graduated from college, Chris says, And 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:56.520 what happened around graduation? I ask that I won't discuss. 0:15:57.120 --> 0:16:00.840 Chris says, I feel like he's baiting me, but I've 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:04.680 no idea why or for what. Whenever any of this 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:08.560 stuff happens, Chris continues, you have to ask yourself what's 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:12.480 in the public domain and what isn't. You could look 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:18.600 up legal information about Barbara, he says. He pauses, Well, 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:21.640 this part I can tell you because it's in the 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:26.440 public domain. In May of nineteen sixty nine, Chris says, 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:37.040 Barbara killed her mother. For a few moments, we sit 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:41.120 in silence, Chris waiting for me to react, Me not 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:46.440 knowing how to her adopted mother. I finally ask that 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:52.840 is correct. Chris says, how is the murder committed? I ask, gunn. 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:58.040 Chris says, do you know the circumstances? I ask, And 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:02.640 this next part, Chris says like he's proud. I knew 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:05.320 some of the details that the police never knew. 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:16.160 Oh my god. 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:19.919 After hanging up with Chris, I try to unpack what 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:25.879 I just heard with my producer Stevie. Oh my I can't. Yeah. 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:39.240 Yeah, I was not expecting that, Like, it just froze me. Yeah, 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:42.040 I don't know that I even want to share that 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:45.560 with Becky. I have to admit that when my mother 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:49.000 in law tasked me with looking into Barbara's obituary, I 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:52.520 assumed I discover the story of a fabulous someone from 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:56.320 humble origins who thought Europe a good place to reinvent herself, 0:17:56.720 --> 0:17:59.800 if only for a summer. I never thought murder would 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:02.520 be an my report, and now that it is, a 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:05.600 part of me feels protective of Becky. Her summer with 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:08.919 Barbara is a memory she cherishes. I don't want to 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:12.560 compromise that. But at the same time, I know Becky 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:14.720 is someone who flips to the end of novels because 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:18.040 she just can't wait to know what happens. She's curious, 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:24.399 and so am I. So I start digging. Over the 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:27.679 next several days, I'm buried in news clippings with headlines 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:31.560 like this woman doctor found slain in her office home. 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:34.000 At the time, the trial of. 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:36.600 Barbara shut for the murder of her adopted mother Jane 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:40.520 dominated Cincinnati headlines. And just a quick warning, some of 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:44.480 the details I'm about to share are disturbing. The newspapers 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:49.160 describe the murder in gruesome, nearly pornographic detail. Her almost 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:52.399 nude body was found lying face down, says one article, 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:56.320 a full blown blood path says another. As well as 0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:59.600 being shot, Jane was also beaten with a fireplace poker, 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:03.679 struck seventeen times in total. Just a few days ago, 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:06.639 I'd thought of Barbara as my mother in law's European 0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:10.879 summer friend, with whom she gossiped and rode bikes. Now 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:14.000 I was reading about her violently beating her mother to death. 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:22.680 It's like their two different women. In the photos I've 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:25.919 seen of her, Barbara is striking, and the papers couldn't 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:28.640 get enough of the mysterious twenty three year old who's 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:33.920 referred to as Slender olive skinned, elfin faced, pixie faced, 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:38.119 and gammon faced. One headline, rather than referring to the 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:41.399 trial as a murder trial, refers to it as a 0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:46.879 waifs trial. The newspapers carry descriptions of Barbara's hairstyle and clothes. 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:50.600 On her first day in court, The Cincinnati Inquirer calls 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:55.400 her dress quote fashionably short, but not mini mini. It's 0:19:55.440 --> 0:20:03.159 almost like Barbara is a movie star. From the papers, 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:05.879 I learned that Barbara had initially confessed to the police, 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:09.920 but recanted her confession a few days later. Why would 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:13.240 someone admit to a crime only to take it back immediately? 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:17.240 To find out, I contact the Hamilton County Court in 0:20:17.280 --> 0:20:21.520 Ohio and request the trial transcript. What I receive is 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:26.040 a document over twelve hundred typewritten pages long. From it, 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:29.040 I learned that the prosecution's case was mostly built on 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:33.399 Barbara's confession, which told the following story. On the morning 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:36.880 of May twenty fifth, nineteen sixty nine, Jane told her 0:20:36.920 --> 0:20:40.679 that she and Barbara's adopted father, Charles, were separating and 0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:42.800 it was time for Barbara to go out on her own. 0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:46.919 An argument ensued. Barbara grabbed a gun from her father's 0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:50.280 dresser and shot Jane. She then dragged her down two 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:52.879 flights of stairs to the basement, where she beat her 0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:56.360 to death with the poker. If she was alive, Barbara 0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:59.760 explained in her confession, she was going to tell everybody 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:10.040 and I was going to be in a jam. The 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:12.560 defense's case, on the other hand, was built around the 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:17.200 fact Barbara later recanted her confession. Barbara maintained her innocence 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:21.200 throughout the trial, claiming the confession was given under false pretenses. 0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:25.320 According to her lawyers, Barbara was horseback riding that morning 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:28.040 and came home to find Jane dead at the bottom 0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:31.280 of the basement stairs. I was thinking that Daddy had 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:34.840 done it, Barbara testified on the stand. She feared Charles 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:37.480 had committed the murder, and so she confessed in order 0:21:37.520 --> 0:21:40.399 to protect him. I was going to do anything that 0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:43.280 I possibly could to take the guilt off him. Barbara 0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:47.679 said anything. This meant cleaning up the crime scene and 0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:51.119 disposing of the gun in the Ohio River. It wasn't 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:55.400 until later that she learned her father was innocent. During 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:58.800 the investigation, police found blood on Barbara's riding boots and 0:21:58.880 --> 0:22:02.719 gunpowder as a jew on her hands. Also Barbara had 0:22:02.760 --> 0:22:06.480 no defensible alibi. She was found guilty and sentenced to 0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:15.360 life in prison for murder in the first degree. 0:22:16.200 --> 0:22:18.480 I hope my voice is okay. You know, we're very 0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:23.760 froggy around here because the allergies. I'll sound like Demi Moore. 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:27.439 Late one Friday evening, my mother in law, Becky, and 0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:31.240 I meet up in here Den. I've been looking into 0:22:31.560 --> 0:22:36.000 Barbara's life, and I'll just get in front of it 0:22:36.080 --> 0:22:45.560 by saying that some of it is shocking. Really, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:22:45.960 --> 0:22:49.440 The interesting thing is in the end, I think generally 0:22:49.520 --> 0:22:52.199 the things that she told you are true. And I 0:22:52.280 --> 0:22:55.240 begin with the information Becky had asked for. I tell 0:22:55.280 --> 0:22:57.240 her that Barbara had not played her for a sab 0:22:57.800 --> 0:23:00.199 so she grew up an orphan. She was adopted by 0:23:00.200 --> 0:23:03.199 a wealthy family three months. But then I tell her 0:23:03.200 --> 0:23:07.600 the other stuff I learned. In May of nineteen sixty nine, 0:23:08.480 --> 0:23:13.680 Barbara murdered her adopted mother, Jane. 0:23:14.080 --> 0:23:21.200 Yeah really, yeah, yeah, oh my god. 0:23:21.640 --> 0:23:23.640 Yeah. 0:23:23.720 --> 0:23:28.639 I last saw her in August of sixty eight, so 0:23:28.760 --> 0:23:33.520 this was, you know, nine months later. 0:23:34.080 --> 0:23:39.120 Yeah. Becky says that in Copenhagen she never saw any 0:23:39.160 --> 0:23:40.760 evidence of violence or temper. 0:23:42.160 --> 0:23:44.320 Boy, I never saw that would have been in her 0:23:46.359 --> 0:23:48.480 I can't wrap my head around it. I don't know 0:23:48.520 --> 0:23:51.040 what to think of it. What should I think about that? 0:23:53.400 --> 0:23:55.440 I thought she was a really nice person. We had 0:23:55.520 --> 0:23:57.840 so much fun together. 0:23:59.480 --> 0:24:02.720 In fact, the time Barbara and Becky shared in Copenhagen 0:24:02.800 --> 0:24:06.240 came up in the court transcript. Barbara's lawyer asked her 0:24:06.280 --> 0:24:08.480 about her trip to Denmark and the work she did 0:24:08.480 --> 0:24:11.720 at the laundromat. Reading it, I half expected my mother 0:24:11.720 --> 0:24:15.680 in law's name to appear, but Barbara doesn't mention Becky. 0:24:15.720 --> 0:24:19.000 But while Becky's name doesn't make an appearance, another familiar 0:24:19.080 --> 0:24:24.040 name does, someone I'd spoken to just weeks earlier, Barbara's 0:24:24.080 --> 0:24:28.320 old college friend, Chris Chris, who wouldn't let me record 0:24:28.320 --> 0:24:34.160 our call. A week into Barbara's trial, Chris is called 0:24:34.160 --> 0:24:37.560 to the stand for questioning. Were you in the vicinity 0:24:37.760 --> 0:24:41.760 of one twenty two Glenn Mary in Cincinnati? The defense asks, 0:24:42.160 --> 0:24:45.240 on the morning of May twenty fifth, nineteen sixty nine, 0:24:46.520 --> 0:24:50.919 I respectfully declined to answer that question, Chris responds, taking 0:24:50.960 --> 0:24:56.760 the fifth. Did you kill doctor Jane Shott? They ask again? 0:24:57.119 --> 0:25:01.919 Chris takes the fifth. Chris and I spoke for an 0:25:01.920 --> 0:25:04.199 hour and a half, and at no point did he 0:25:04.240 --> 0:25:08.320 ever say anything about being questioned as a suspect. What 0:25:08.359 --> 0:25:16.399 the hell was going on? Was this why Chris had 0:25:16.440 --> 0:25:19.240 been so cagy with me? Was this connected to what 0:25:19.320 --> 0:25:22.880 he knew that the police never knew? Becky wonders too, 0:25:23.440 --> 0:25:25.240 What does Chris have to do with all of this? 0:25:25.800 --> 0:25:27.880 What did he have to say that he didn't feel 0:25:27.920 --> 0:25:30.440 he could say because it would be incriminating. Why did 0:25:30.480 --> 0:25:35.200 he do that? Does he know something that nobody else knows? 0:25:36.680 --> 0:25:39.600 I respectfully declined to answer that question, for the answer 0:25:39.640 --> 0:25:43.160 that question might incriminate me in this jurisdiction or any 0:25:43.200 --> 0:25:45.280 other jurisdiction in the United States. 0:25:46.080 --> 0:25:49.840 This is Chris reciting the Fifth Amendment for me, now, 0:25:50.520 --> 0:25:54.640 fifty two years later, I remember it today. A month 0:25:54.680 --> 0:25:57.919 after our first conversation, I received an email from Chris 0:25:58.000 --> 0:26:00.480 that I didn't know what to make of. In it, 0:26:00.800 --> 0:26:02.560 he told me he now wanted to talk to me, 0:26:03.280 --> 0:26:06.399 and if that wasn't surprising enough, he also said I 0:26:06.440 --> 0:26:10.680 could record the conversation. I think maybe we could achieve more, 0:26:10.800 --> 0:26:15.600 he wrote, if you're still interested, Hey, Chris, I'm. 0:26:15.400 --> 0:26:17.879 Glad we finally made contact. 0:26:18.320 --> 0:26:21.639 Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, I asked Chris My burning question, 0:26:22.400 --> 0:26:23.760 why did he take the stand? 0:26:24.520 --> 0:26:27.719 It was to protect Barbara, and it was suggested to 0:26:27.760 --> 0:26:33.760 me by Bernard Gilday Junior, who was her attorney. Gil 0:26:33.840 --> 0:26:37.560 Day said they needed another suspect. It didn't have to 0:26:37.600 --> 0:26:39.040 be somebody who actually did. 0:26:40.119 --> 0:26:43.120 The effect Barbara's lawyers were looking to achieve was exactly 0:26:43.160 --> 0:26:46.040 the one it had on me. Chris pleading the fifth 0:26:46.160 --> 0:26:50.560 raised suspicion with all the evidence against Barbara, Gilday was 0:26:50.640 --> 0:26:53.760 just hoping to cast a shadow of doubt. So her lawyer, 0:26:53.800 --> 0:26:57.920 Gilday was just looking to sort of to muddy things somehow. 0:26:58.600 --> 0:27:01.040 Yeah, and have a second suspect. 0:27:03.520 --> 0:27:07.119 But why would Chris, Barbara's college friend, implicate himself in 0:27:07.160 --> 0:27:10.280 a murder trial. It turns out that while they were 0:27:10.280 --> 0:27:12.920 friends in college, they weren't just friends. 0:27:13.359 --> 0:27:18.320 We were engaged. She sat right in front of me 0:27:18.359 --> 0:27:21.639 in the German class in the summer of sixty seven, 0:27:22.240 --> 0:27:26.879 and one time I made a joke or something and 0:27:26.920 --> 0:27:29.040 she turned around and smiled at me, and that's when 0:27:29.040 --> 0:27:32.720 I started talking to her. That was the beginning, and 0:27:33.320 --> 0:27:34.399 it went pretty quickly. 0:27:35.800 --> 0:27:38.880 The end came pretty quickly too. Chris was going away 0:27:38.880 --> 0:27:42.000 to California for graduate school, and the relationship would be 0:27:42.040 --> 0:27:45.679 long distance. They began to picker. The enormity of the 0:27:45.680 --> 0:27:48.800 commitment started getting to them, so just a few months 0:27:48.800 --> 0:27:52.000 after they were engaged, and well before Jane's murder, they 0:27:52.040 --> 0:27:56.159 called it off. But Chris's feelings for Barbara endured. It 0:27:56.240 --> 0:27:58.600 was something her lawyers took advantage of when they asked 0:27:58.640 --> 0:27:59.480 him to testify. 0:28:01.160 --> 0:28:05.520 It's just a strange thing, what you'll do to help someone. 0:28:06.200 --> 0:28:09.159 It was a desperate, if not legally questionable move, but 0:28:09.200 --> 0:28:12.640 the defense didn't have much Chris was never taken seriously 0:28:12.680 --> 0:28:15.680 as a suspect. In fact, the judge ended up telling 0:28:15.680 --> 0:28:19.200 the jury to disregard his testimony altogether, claiming it had 0:28:19.240 --> 0:28:22.520 no real bearing on the case. And today, if you 0:28:22.560 --> 0:28:25.880 ask Chris if he thinks Barbara was guilty, he's unequivocal. 0:28:26.680 --> 0:28:29.240 This is the part he learned later that the police 0:28:29.320 --> 0:28:30.119 never knew. 0:28:30.359 --> 0:28:34.199 She had purchased a gun in Richmond, Kentucky, and she 0:28:34.320 --> 0:28:38.560 went over to some woods and she practiced with a gun, 0:28:39.640 --> 0:28:41.720 so she knew she was going to use it because 0:28:41.760 --> 0:28:42.880 she practiced with it. 0:28:44.160 --> 0:28:47.120 I'm unable to verify if Barbara bought the gun, but 0:28:47.200 --> 0:28:50.000 it is true that when her adopted father, Charles, took 0:28:50.040 --> 0:28:53.000 the stand during the trial. He testified that he'd never 0:28:53.040 --> 0:28:55.560 owned a gun or kept one in the dresser where 0:28:55.600 --> 0:29:04.120 Barbara claimed to have found it. After the trial, Barbara 0:29:04.240 --> 0:29:06.720 was sent to a women's prison in Marysville, Ohio to 0:29:06.760 --> 0:29:09.920 serve her sentence, and Chris says he visited a few times, 0:29:10.080 --> 0:29:13.160 but most of their contact was by mail. He kept 0:29:13.160 --> 0:29:16.120 Barbara's letters and sends me a photo of one. It's 0:29:16.160 --> 0:29:19.320 written on prison stationery, and most of it is pretty mundane. 0:29:19.920 --> 0:29:22.760 But what strikes me is how Barbara records the date 0:29:23.600 --> 0:29:26.920 rather than the day, month, and year. She instead writes 0:29:27.560 --> 0:29:31.400 Mother's Day. Chris also tells me that Barbara was given 0:29:31.400 --> 0:29:32.760 a wide berth at Marysville. 0:29:33.480 --> 0:29:37.960 She was favored by Miss Wheeler, the superintendent. For example, 0:29:38.040 --> 0:29:42.040 Miss Wheeler loved Ohio state football, and she would invite 0:29:42.440 --> 0:29:45.880 Barbara only of all the prisoners to come over and 0:29:45.960 --> 0:29:49.280 watch the game. No other prisoner could go into Miss 0:29:49.320 --> 0:29:50.120 Wheeler's house. 0:29:51.440 --> 0:29:55.600 In that he sees Barbara's special talent for manipulation. In prison, 0:29:55.680 --> 0:29:58.360 Chris says Barbara was somehow allowed to keep a camera 0:29:58.560 --> 0:30:01.840 and even a small dog, and she was paroled after 0:30:01.880 --> 0:30:05.480 fifteen years, five years earlier than the minimum stipulated by 0:30:05.480 --> 0:30:08.800 her sentence. It's all part of a bigger pattern, he says, 0:30:09.240 --> 0:30:11.160 like how his parents put up half the money for 0:30:11.240 --> 0:30:11.960 Barbara's bail. 0:30:12.720 --> 0:30:18.400 She used people. Okay, she could get me to do things. 0:30:20.240 --> 0:30:24.760 I drove her weekly to her horse riding lessons, I 0:30:24.840 --> 0:30:30.160 bought her presence, I started smoking with her. She had 0:30:30.160 --> 0:30:33.640 this feeling of entitlement. I think I would say that 0:30:33.760 --> 0:30:34.840 was part of her character. 0:30:35.240 --> 0:30:35.480 Hmm. 0:30:35.960 --> 0:30:37.400 She wanted to get her away. 0:30:39.200 --> 0:30:41.560 My mind returns to what Becky said about being with 0:30:41.640 --> 0:30:45.040 Barbara and Copenhagen, the checkers game she was forced to play, 0:30:45.480 --> 0:30:55.200 the bike ride she had to take. In nineteen seventy two, 0:30:55.480 --> 0:30:58.240 Chris got married and he and Barbara fell out of touch. 0:30:58.920 --> 0:31:02.120 In nineteen eighty four, Barbara moved to Columbus, Ohio after 0:31:02.160 --> 0:31:06.800 being paroled. Then in nineteen ninety one, Chris's marriage ended. 0:31:07.360 --> 0:31:09.880 He didn't wait long before reaching back out to Barbara 0:31:10.000 --> 0:31:13.560 and beginning a correspondence, why do you think you reached 0:31:13.600 --> 0:31:15.760 out to her after all those years apart? 0:31:17.200 --> 0:31:23.040 Curious and I still had strong feelings for her. 0:31:23.920 --> 0:31:26.760 Talking to Chris on the phone fifty years later, it 0:31:26.840 --> 0:31:30.720 still feels like Barbara exerts a strange force. Chris tells 0:31:30.760 --> 0:31:33.240 me about this one day in nineteen ninety one, when 0:31:33.240 --> 0:31:35.640 he was passing through Columbus on his way to visit 0:31:35.680 --> 0:31:39.440 family in Cleveland. The way Chris describes it, it almost sounds 0:31:39.440 --> 0:31:41.200 like his car started driving itself. 0:31:41.920 --> 0:31:45.400 I had my daughter with me, and Barbara had sent 0:31:45.440 --> 0:31:48.760 me a picture of her, a little Toyota or Mazda 0:31:48.800 --> 0:31:52.520 whatever she had, with a flower on the antenna. And 0:31:53.000 --> 0:31:56.520 I remember stopping and looking at the house and telling 0:31:56.720 --> 0:32:00.600 my daughter, who was maybe thirteen at the time, I said, 0:32:00.640 --> 0:32:04.320 that's Barbara's car, and this is where she's living, and 0:32:05.400 --> 0:32:09.400 I'll never forget. My daughter said to me, Daddy, are 0:32:09.400 --> 0:32:11.640 you going to go in and see her? And I said, no, 0:32:11.800 --> 0:32:13.360 I just want to know that she's okay. 0:32:15.560 --> 0:32:18.120 Hearing the story, I can't help but wonder if the 0:32:18.160 --> 0:32:20.800 real reason Chris changed his mind about speaking with me 0:32:21.160 --> 0:32:23.320 was simply because he longed for someone with whom to 0:32:23.360 --> 0:32:32.080 share Barbara stories. When I asked Chris if, in the 0:32:32.200 --> 0:32:35.080 years after Barbara committed the murder, he'd never heard her 0:32:35.120 --> 0:32:39.360 express remorse, Chris says no, But then he tells me 0:32:39.400 --> 0:32:41.959 one more story from Barbara's life after prison. 0:32:42.720 --> 0:32:48.360 She was cutting the grass, wet grass, and wet grass 0:32:48.360 --> 0:32:51.280 sticks to the bottom of where the blade is and 0:32:51.320 --> 0:32:56.480 you have to clean it out. So she stopped the engine, 0:32:56.880 --> 0:32:59.840 but she didn't disconnect the wire to the sparks blog, 0:33:00.920 --> 0:33:05.280 and she moved the blade to get all the grass out, 0:33:05.800 --> 0:33:11.040 and the motor started and so two of her fingers 0:33:11.040 --> 0:33:16.640 were cut off. And later, at some point she said 0:33:17.680 --> 0:33:22.239 she thought it was punishment for killing her mother. She 0:33:22.240 --> 0:33:24.720 didn't say it as bluntly as that, but that's what 0:33:24.760 --> 0:33:27.479 she was saying. 0:33:35.120 --> 0:33:39.280 What started this all was the obituary. Yeah, And although 0:33:39.280 --> 0:33:43.480 everything in it was accurate, it sure didn't tell the 0:33:43.520 --> 0:33:44.800 whole story. 0:33:45.160 --> 0:33:48.440 Which is what Becky wonders about now, the whole story, 0:33:49.360 --> 0:33:53.360 because while the evidence against Barbara is overwhelming, neither Becky 0:33:53.400 --> 0:33:56.640 nor I are convinced by the motive the prosecution presented. 0:33:57.400 --> 0:34:00.080 Why would be told to move out cause the three 0:34:00.160 --> 0:34:04.920 year old college graduate to fly into a murderous rage. Plus, 0:34:05.160 --> 0:34:07.920 if Chris is to be believed, Barbara had been planning 0:34:07.920 --> 0:34:12.800 the murder for months, what was her motivation before Becky 0:34:12.840 --> 0:34:15.920 met her in Copenhagen, before Charles and Jane adopted her 0:34:16.280 --> 0:34:20.680 Barbara Shutt was a girl named Barbara Wilson. Barbara Wilson 0:34:20.760 --> 0:34:24.440 was born in Kentucky, raised in an orphanage. Who was 0:34:24.520 --> 0:34:26.759 this girl the shots ushered into their home at the 0:34:26.760 --> 0:34:29.920 age of seventeen? And why did you kill Jane? 0:34:30.520 --> 0:34:33.799 There's so many questions I still have, so maybe some 0:34:33.880 --> 0:34:36.200 of those questions you'll find answers to. 0:34:37.600 --> 0:34:39.120 On the next episode of Heavyweight. 0:34:39.280 --> 0:34:41.560 When you want to solve the murder, you discover the 0:34:41.640 --> 0:34:42.840 secrets that spawned it. 0:34:43.160 --> 0:34:45.160 I set out to unlock some secrets. 0:34:45.400 --> 0:34:47.920 The story we got was that she had no family, 0:34:48.520 --> 0:34:49.840 and it wasn't even true. 0:34:49.920 --> 0:34:53.200 What's this place called Galilee's Children's Home? Galilean Children's Home? 0:34:53.480 --> 0:34:56.480 I searched for the Kentucky orphanage where Barbara was raised. 0:34:56.560 --> 0:34:58.480 There's a kid's size book right there. 0:34:58.560 --> 0:35:01.279 And the kids now grown who were raised there with her. 0:35:02.680 --> 0:35:03.879 I try to forget the bad ones. 0:35:04.560 --> 0:35:05.440 There were bad ones. 0:35:06.120 --> 0:35:10.040 Well, from the outside it look like candy and cookies. 0:35:10.680 --> 0:35:14.080 What was going on in the inside was far from that. 0:35:18.800 --> 0:35:22.160 Part two is out now. It's available only on Spotify. 0:35:22.560 --> 0:35:25.319 Go there right now and search Heavyweight to listen to 0:35:25.360 --> 0:35:37.440 the conclusion. This episode of Heavyweight was produced by Stevie Lane, 0:35:37.480 --> 0:35:41.120 along with Me, Jonathan Goldstein, and Moheey mcgauker. Our senior 0:35:41.160 --> 0:35:45.120 producer is Khaleila Holt. Special thanks to Emily Condon, Alex Bloomberg, 0:35:45.160 --> 0:35:49.320 Brendan Klinkenberg, Mitch Hansen, Fia Ben and Justin mcgoldrich, j T. Townsend, 0:35:49.360 --> 0:35:52.840 Rachel Strom, Mark Bartlett, Jason Alexander at the Hamilton County 0:35:52.840 --> 0:35:55.840 Clerk of Courts, and Jackie Cohen. Bobby Lord mixed the 0:35:55.880 --> 0:35:59.160 episode with original music by Christine Fellows, John K. Sampson, 0:35:59.160 --> 0:36:02.799 Blue Dot Session and Bobby Lord. Additional music credits can 0:36:02.800 --> 0:36:06.400 be found on our website, Gimletmedia dot com slash Heavyweight. 0:36:06.800 --> 0:36:09.040 Our theme song is by The Weaker Thans courtesy of 0:36:09.080 --> 0:36:12.720 Epitaph Records. Follow us on Twitter at Heavyweight. We're always 0:36:12.760 --> 0:36:15.400 looking for new stories, so email us at Heavyweight at 0:36:15.400 --> 0:36:19.040 gimletmedia dot com. Part two of this episode is available 0:36:19.200 --> 0:36:22.640 right now only on Spotify. We'll be back with new 0:36:22.680 --> 0:36:26.280 episodes after Thanksgiving, exclusively on Spotify