Lala is Done Being Dicknotized!

00:00:01
Speaker 1: Hi Amber, Hi Lolah. Welcome to an Unlikely Affair.

00:00:08
Speaker 2: Good morning everybody, and welcome to another episode of an Unlikely Affair.

00:00:12
Speaker 1: Hello Laala, Hello gorgeous.

00:00:19
Speaker 2: You know, I was thinking about something the other day, and I think we were talking about it too. You know how like we think things are supposed to be one way and it ends up being something else, and it actually just limits us our thinking, our being, our existence.

00:00:36
Speaker 3: I don't know, maybe this is way too deep.

00:00:38
Speaker 4: No, it's not too deep at all, and it actually rings true in every aspect of life, things, personal, dating.

00:00:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, this show literally exists because something very unusual. I was the wife, You were the beautiful mistress.

00:00:55
Speaker 4: I love that the word beautiful has been added before mistress, wonderful. Are you just a mistress or are you a beautiful mistress?

00:01:05
Speaker 1: Which box do you check?

00:01:09
Speaker 3: But look at what we did.

00:01:10
Speaker 1: We made.

00:01:11
Speaker 2: We chose growth over staying stuck in these stories, these identities. And then we started talking about dating and how maybe that's the issue. Like we all have our stuff and that's obviously very real and we're all healing. But what if there's this idea of maybe finding your person is just about logistics, Like what if your person isn't in your neighborhood, in your radius of where you live, and what if they're a state over And I've really been thinking about it.

00:01:41
Speaker 1: There across the country. What if you just never know?

00:01:45
Speaker 4: Well, it's true though with like the dating apps, granted with those you can pick and choose the radius, but I mean people meet online all the time, and then logistics come into play, and it goes back to what.

00:02:00
Speaker 1: You were saying about limiting ourselves.

00:02:03
Speaker 4: And it's just a fact that dating in a city like Los Angeles and New York, it's just a little bit tougher, it's a lot, a bit tougher.

00:02:11
Speaker 1: So sometimes you do have to outsource.

00:02:15
Speaker 3: We just have to expand our thinking just a little bit.

00:02:17
Speaker 2: So of course, my iPhone obviously heard everything that I was saying, because that's what happens. And I, you know, my feet is a lot about relationships, along with really cute animal videos and how to raise teenagers. But I found this woman who's an amazing therapist and I'm so excited to have her on today. Her name's Melissa Thompson, and she has had firsthand experience with long distance relationship in her now marriage that she met her husband, but she talks about structures and boundaries and how to keep connections alive and real. And I'm so excited to talk to her today.

00:02:53
Speaker 4: This one's going to be good. This is going to be great. I'm so happy that she came on to your for you page, and immediately when you sent me that video where she talks about like the long distance and things like that, I just I want to pick her brain so badly. So she here, she's ready to go, let's bring her in.

00:03:10
Speaker 5: Hi.

00:03:11
Speaker 6: Hello, Hi, Wrissa.

00:03:13
Speaker 1: How are you so excited to have you?

00:03:16
Speaker 6: Thank you?

00:03:16
Speaker 3: I'm doing well.

00:03:17
Speaker 6: I'm doing wow. How are you both good?

00:03:20
Speaker 4: I mean, I have zero complaints. I am so thrilled. So your page popped up on Ambers for You Paige, and she sent me one of your videos and it was about how to make a long distance relationship work. Yes, I immediately said, I have to talk to her. We have to talk to her. So thank you so much for taking time for us this morning.

00:03:39
Speaker 7: It is so appreciated.

00:03:41
Speaker 5: Yes, you're more than welcome. I'm so thrilled to be here. I'm glad it pops up on your page.

00:03:45
Speaker 7: That's awesome.

00:03:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, me too.

00:03:47
Speaker 2: I want to just start out and just can you tell everybody what you do and just your background and stuff.

00:03:53
Speaker 3: So I feel like that's like a really good place to start.

00:03:55
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:03:56
Speaker 4: Sure.

00:03:56
Speaker 6: So I'm Melissa Devars Thompson.

00:03:58
Speaker 5: I am a license marriage and family therapist. I have a group psychotherapy practice in New York City and we work with individuals, but we primarily specialize and have extra training with couples and couples therapy.

00:04:13
Speaker 3: I love that.

00:04:13
Speaker 2: I was just talking about New York and how crazy it feels like dating in these cities. Is there's so many people? What is there eight million people? Oh in New York?

00:04:24
Speaker 5: Oh?

00:04:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I've lived there and I have that experience of feeling like it is so lonely.

00:04:30
Speaker 3: How is this possible?

00:04:31
Speaker 4: I know?

00:04:31
Speaker 5: And you know what's interesting, I hear people say I don't know whether it's better because I've lived in San Francisco when I was single, I've lived in New York and I just feel like, sometimes is it better or worse to be in like big cities with like tons of people and feel lonely? Or is it better to be in like small communities and feel like there's no one? Who am I going to date?

00:04:48
Speaker 7: Go anyway.

00:04:49
Speaker 1: It could go either way.

00:04:50
Speaker 4: Because I'm based in Los Angeles, I amber just recently moved to Bozeman, Montanna.

00:04:57
Speaker 1: There's a lot of people.

00:04:59
Speaker 4: But I'm telling you when you go out and see your options, and it's not me insulting the men in LA because you know, we should all be doing what we want to be doing. A lot of men they don't want just one partner. It's like these big cities. It's like how there are kids in a candy store and so many people moving out here day in and day out, and fresh meat all the time. It's extremely hard to find your person in a large city.

00:05:26
Speaker 3: It is that.

00:05:26
Speaker 5: I think online dating hasn't helped that. On one hand, it's been helpful because there's sort of all these apps now that you can just swipe, swipe, swipe. But on the other hand, I think people feel like, well, if I don't like this little thing about you, next you know, swipe, swipe, swipe.

00:05:39
Speaker 4: Oh.

00:05:40
Speaker 1: So you think it's made people become more picky.

00:05:43
Speaker 5: I think it's made people feel more like relationships are a little bit disposable, and if I don't like this one thing about somebody, I don't have to work that hard. Let me just go back on the app and find somebody else.

00:05:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, and also not to mention and this is not a dig on men, but it is a date on men. They don't know how to set up a profile at all. Their photos are not Like as women, I feel like we're blessed, Like we have that ability to know what angles look good, you know, we care about that.

00:06:14
Speaker 4: Stuff, what level of Hollywood filter on the face app we should use.

00:06:20
Speaker 2: Or not use, like use I already know when I go out with La La, I know her good side, so I am definitely going to be on the like I am giving, you know, taking one for the team.

00:06:30
Speaker 3: Because she has her good side.

00:06:32
Speaker 2: But no, honestly, like, I feel like men have really struggle with their dating profiles and it doesn't necessarily highlight how who they are or if they're not emotionally available.

00:06:42
Speaker 5: The part that I have a hard time with that I hear a lot, and that I experienced because I was single for a very long time.

00:06:48
Speaker 7: I thought I was going to have to, i don't know, give up dating altogether.

00:06:50
Speaker 1: And see what a long time is?

00:06:53
Speaker 5: I found my partner. Okay, let me let me back up a little. When I was in college, everyone was like getting married, settling down, and I always have wanted to be in a relationship. I didn't know if I wanted kids. I always knew that I wanted to find my person. I'm just a monogamous through and through. Not everybody has to choose that for themselves. That's what I wanted. And so by the time I hit thirty five ish and I still hadn't met my person, I was like, wait a second, what am I doing wrong?

00:07:20
Speaker 6: What is happening.

00:07:21
Speaker 1: You hadn't been in any relationship.

00:07:23
Speaker 5: I had been in relationships that of course, at the time, I thought maybe this is the one. But on reflection, they were not the one and they were not good. But I only learned that later. So yeah, at that time, I thought this is never going to happen to me. So I definitely got together with my husband now later on in life what I consider late mid thirties, later on in life, okay, And I felt like that was so helpful for me. Like the people that I think back to that I had dated in my twenties and maybe even early thirties, thank goodness, I did not land up with them, Thank goodness.

00:07:58
Speaker 4: Wow, I feel like your story is pretty in alignment with mine because I've told Amber this, I haven't had a productive, healthy relationship since I was probably seventeen with my high school sweetheart. And when I look back on that relationship, I'm like, had we been older, I think we were just so in sync and so mature, and it's wild to think that my frontal lobe wasn't even formed. But I knew a healthy relationship, and as I got older, I was just like, where's the toxicity.

00:08:32
Speaker 1: Where's the high highs and the low lows?

00:08:34
Speaker 4: And I'm thirty five now, and Amber knows this because we share an ex I'm just a wounded bird and very guarded, and this is I've been single, fully single.

00:08:47
Speaker 1: We're going into the.

00:08:48
Speaker 4: Fifth year of not dating, and I'm finally open to finding my person. So I'm so, I'm just I want to know how you found yours, because I feel like you're speaking my language right now, and you're going to give me hope.

00:09:03
Speaker 1: I know that.

00:09:05
Speaker 5: So I totally resonate with the wounded bird and feeling really guarded. I think for me, the hardest part in dating is that I would meet these men and I would try to turn myself into a Pretzel, even though I was learning to be a therapist at that time, and I knew, like, I'm not supposed to be doing this, but this one could be the one, and maybe this is how I have to kind of change a little bit to make this work. Or my favorite that I hear from my clients and myself back then was no, they will change, like they'll realize how awesome I am, and then they'll decide that they're ready for X, Y or Z and we'll run off into the sunset. So I think for me, a lot of the work came and maybe you won't like this answer, but a lot of the work came from doing my own work inside to figure out why am I such a wounded bird or why am I so guarded? Or what is it that I'm actually looking for and what am I not open to and why those are some really really big questions for me and what am I willing to accept? You know? And I think there's this line that I hear often in my psychotherapy practice of people that come in with, you know, I want an astronaut who's a millionaire, who's got blue eyes and blonde hair, and you know, blah blahlah and I'm like, WHOA, that is ultra specific, And then I have other people who are sort of like, I really don't care. I'll take whoever, like a pulse, a heartbeat, two legs, two arms, We're good, let's just make it happen. So, you know, I think for me, I had to get really really clear on what I wanted. And for me, the last thing I'll say about this is that I sort of came to this conclusion of like, what are my three must haves and what are my three can't stands?

00:10:42
Speaker 7: Okay, I like that, mm hmmmm hmm.

00:10:47
Speaker 6: So I got really clear.

00:10:48
Speaker 5: I know, for me, I had been cheated on by an ax, which sounds like you ladies have some history with and so that was at the top of like my must have list, like I need somebody loyal who I do not have to think constantly is going to go and cheat on me or be with somebody else.

00:11:09
Speaker 4: Do you do you think that because I've now since I've ventured into the dating pool, I mean, one of my top questions is and watch You're gonna be like, don't ask those questions. Have have you cheated on your partner before? Do you think if the answer is yes, that that is a red flag.

00:11:31
Speaker 5: You know, I think it's a great question to ask. I don't know if I would ask it on the first date because somebody may feel I don't imagine, no, that.

00:11:40
Speaker 3: Would be the last date, right exactly.

00:11:44
Speaker 1: I feel it out, I promise, right.

00:11:48
Speaker 5: I don't think it's an automatic red flag. I don't think it's an automatic red flag. What I would look for is somebody who has some awareness around it and growth from it. So, yes, this happened, this is why it happened, This was my part in it.

00:12:03
Speaker 7: If they say, yes, I cheated on my.

00:12:04
Speaker 5: Partner because they were such a jerk, and you know, they they, they, they they.

00:12:09
Speaker 6: I want to hear, where's your accountability in this? Okay?

00:12:12
Speaker 1: I love that.

00:12:13
Speaker 3: Love that That to me is.

00:12:15
Speaker 6: The moment of growth that I'm looking for.

00:12:17
Speaker 5: Okay, we all make mistakes, trust me, we all make mistakes.

00:12:20
Speaker 6: But how did you learn and grow from it?

00:12:22
Speaker 7: And how do you not repeat that?

00:12:24
Speaker 4: So it's all about the follow up, not exactly the yes or no correct because you don't know.

00:12:30
Speaker 5: Maybe maybe they were super young, maybe there was some like life stress going on, like there's so many I as a therapist live in shades of gray constantly, So I'm always thinking like, what could be, what could have happened that would have made it more like, you know, it's not okay, but it makes sense, you know.

00:12:46
Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, So how did you end up?

00:12:49
Speaker 2: Oh?

00:12:49
Speaker 7: Sorry, I was.

00:12:50
Speaker 4: Gonna asked the exact same question. You and I are so in sync, You're I know what you're gonna ask.

00:12:54
Speaker 3: Go, So, how did you find your husband?

00:12:57
Speaker 7: Yes?

00:12:58
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, so.

00:12:59
Speaker 6: It's it's interesting.

00:13:01
Speaker 5: My husband and I, believe it or not, we're in third grade together.

00:13:07
Speaker 7: Yes.

00:13:07
Speaker 5: I had immigrated from South Africa. I'm from Cape Town, South Africa, and my family had immigrated to Virginia. We went to this little, tiny school and we were in third grade together. We have a picture of us that was at our wedding of us in our yearbook back then. We then parted ways. We then, you know, and we were just you know, we knew of each other. We didn't hang out or I think we were in third grade, and then he left the school and then we connected back in high school. I dated a good friend of his and he dated a friend of mine, and I he was never my time, never ever ever.

00:13:41
Speaker 6: He was the life of the party.

00:13:42
Speaker 5: He was so much fun. He was a good guy. I knew that in my heart. I was like, this man is a good man. But as you remember, we dialed the clock back, that was not interesting to me. I was like, now mm I need like the unavailable man. I need the man who's like sexy and you know.

00:13:57
Speaker 1: And breadcrumbs me. Yes, makes me feel insecure in a pit in my stomach.

00:14:02
Speaker 5: Yes, because that's exciting and like that's alive, you know, Like this guy seems like a really good you know, says what he's gonna.

00:14:09
Speaker 6: Do, and then he does it boring.

00:14:12
Speaker 5: So he dated my friend and I would hear about him all the time, like, oh, I'm hanging out with him, Da da dad. I'm like, great, good for you. We're actually in a prom picture together. He's with his date. I'm with my date. But again, like never thought of it at all. Fast forward dated a man who.

00:14:31
Speaker 7: Was a musician who.

00:14:34
Speaker 5: I was so in love with and who broke my heart, and I moved three thousand miles away. I moved to California to kind of get some space and some.

00:14:43
Speaker 6: Distance and to go to grad school.

00:14:45
Speaker 5: But it was one of those relationships that kept pulling you back In long story short, my now husband ran into him. They got talking. My now husband says, I'm in California for work. I don't know anybody, and my ex says, you should call Melissa. Here's what number. Oh my gosh, yes, oh my god is right. So he calls me and I will never forget the message.

00:15:08
Speaker 6: He says. It's a blast from the past. And I'm like, oh my god.

00:15:12
Speaker 7: This guy, Like seriously, this guy. He's like, I'm in town.

00:15:17
Speaker 5: Do you want to have lunch? Like you want to do something? And I was like no, but okay, So we went out. I lived in San Francisco at the time because I was in grad school, and I went to pick him up. At that time, he drank. He doesn't drink anymore, not for some big dramatic story, but just because it's a life choice he made.

00:15:34
Speaker 6: He had been at a bar because he is.

00:15:36
Speaker 5: A commander's fan, and he had been at the bar all morning, like hanging out da da da. And when I roll up to pick him out up outside of the bar, he's in the middle of the street. His arms are waving and I swear I almost turned the bar around. I was like no, uh uh oh no, hell No, long story short, we end up going out. We went to I was dating a guy at that time. I was trying to pick out a birthday present for him. My now husband was helping me and at the same time saying things.

00:16:08
Speaker 6: Like, you sure this guy's like for you? I don't know. I'm not sure. You know, he sounds great, so he's trying.

00:16:13
Speaker 7: To give me a relationship advice. Like while we're.

00:16:15
Speaker 5: Hanging out and we go to the grocery store because I had to get some stuff before I went home, and I remember standing in the produce aisle at Whole Foods in San Francisco and he was there shopping with me, and I remember thinking, whoever I land up with Universe out there, whoever you talk to Universe, I want to feel exactly how I feel with this man.

00:16:39
Speaker 6: However, I know.

00:16:39
Speaker 5: It's not him, because you know, it's definitely not him, but I want to feel how I feel right now in this moment with him, and I felt I'll tell you how I felt. I felt completely myself, completely at peace. Anything could happen, and I felt like it would be okay, we'd figure it out.

00:16:58
Speaker 1: So I love this.

00:17:00
Speaker 3: I'm in shock. This is so beautiful. That is such a beautiful story.

00:17:04
Speaker 4: You So was it long? How long was he in town for? I mean, because I know that you guys spend some time apart. We didn't want to pick your brain about that. Yes, yes, Where where was he located?

00:17:19
Speaker 1: Yes? And how long did that last?

00:17:22
Speaker 5: So before we get there, I should tell you because it's something you also spoke about earlier. Is once I realized that, and I said, at the universe, you know, I love hanging out with him. I feel like I can be myself. We have a lot of fun together. I had been dating. I was lonely. I wanted to be in relationship, but again, it wasn't him. So we'll just go out and have fun with him as a friend. I remember one of my friends saying, you like him, and I was like, shut up, I don't like him. Like I'm just we're friends, okay, like guys and girls can be friends. Give it, oh, you know, let it go. And so we ended up spending time together. And it was Halloween night. We went out, we both dressed up and in front of a very large speaker at a club that was booming music in our ears. And we're sitting there because I don't know why we thought that was a good idea. And he said, I know you like me and I like you as well. And I was like, you've been drinking, We've been out all night. That's not true.

00:18:12
Speaker 6: Blah blah blah.

00:18:13
Speaker 5: Because I was so guarded, I was like, ooh, this feels like I'm such in conflict because you're not my type. I don't know if there's chemistry there, but I feel so much myself around you, and I really love spending time with you, but again, you're not my type.

00:18:27
Speaker 6: There aren't any games, like what is this?

00:18:30
Speaker 5: And he said, I'm going to call you tomorrow and I'm going to tell you the exact same thing, and you're going to know because I'll be sober that this is.

00:18:38
Speaker 7: What I mean.

00:18:38
Speaker 5: And I was like, okay, whatever. The next day, that man called me and it was awkward. I'll tell you, but he said, I met what I said last night.

00:18:48
Speaker 7: I really like you.

00:18:50
Speaker 5: Do you want to see if we can make this work? And you know what I said, Well, I already had a date lined up for tonight, so I'm going to go on that, but you know.

00:19:02
Speaker 6: Just maybe again guarded wounded. Long story short, I went out on the date. It was not great.

00:19:08
Speaker 5: I was thinking about my husband the whole time, and the rest is history.

00:19:12
Speaker 7: Wow.

00:19:13
Speaker 1: Oh, can I tell you that it is so cute.

00:19:15
Speaker 4: I'm actually thrilled that you went on the date because I think it's probably solidified.

00:19:19
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm actually into this.

00:19:21
Speaker 6: Guy one hundred percent.

00:19:22
Speaker 7: One hundred percent.

00:19:23
Speaker 6: Yeah.

00:19:24
Speaker 5: Wow.

00:19:25
Speaker 2: And where was your husband living at the time.

00:19:27
Speaker 5: He was living in Virginia. So I was in San Francisco. He was living in Virginia. I think that's three thousand miles at distance. Yeah, it is some distance. And we did do long distance. We did long distance for I guess it was almost eight months to a year.

00:19:43
Speaker 6: It was a while.

00:19:44
Speaker 5: And he would come for work out to San Francisco and then he would go home, like on the Red Eye, and then he'd come out for the weekends.

00:19:51
Speaker 7: I mean, it was madness.

00:19:53
Speaker 5: And I just remember when we finally decided we wanted to be together, and I'd put him through all the tests of you know, helping me let my guard down on all of that, which took a while. I was so sad when he would leave. I was so devastated, and I was like, Okay, this is it. I'm sure he's going to meet someone else. I'm sure he's going to lose interest, Like, why would this guy be traveling all the way here just to see me on the weekends, not only then to travel all the way back.

00:20:15
Speaker 6: It was very difficult.

00:20:26
Speaker 4: What were some tools that you guys both implemented to make that work for so long?

00:20:33
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I was, as you know, studying to become a therapist.

00:20:37
Speaker 6: I was in my own therapy.

00:20:38
Speaker 5: And the thing is is that when people come together, there's this myth about relationships that it should be easy, and there's a myth that if it's the right person, it should just be flawless and seamless. And even though I felt completely myself with my husband and I wanted to try to make this work, we were both coming to the table with bagging and so part of my thoughts and advice and you know, talking to people on my social media platforms around long distance relationships are these are things you can absolutely implement into long distance I also recommend them for close proximity relationships too, because I think they're just really good habits.

00:21:19
Speaker 7: So some of the.

00:21:21
Speaker 5: Things that we did now with the day and age we have with FaceTime or video calls. That's like a game changer that your connection really needs to be intentional. And I think a lot of people think like, oh, if we just text message each other all day, then that staying in contact, But that's actually not how trust and connection really builds. It's around, in my opinion, sort of creating that closeness by having those moments of intentional connection, whether it's you know, chatting on video or talking to each other in the morning of morning text and even text.

00:22:00
Speaker 6: I know a lot of my clients.

00:22:01
Speaker 5: Love that when the person that they're dating and I did two at the time like Hay, good morning, been thinking about you or Hay, good night, going to sleep. You know, those little moments can help a ton as well. And then the other piece that I say is around you know, when are you going to see each other again? You know, because to be kind of these long distance people trying to connect, if there's no plan to see each other, it can start to feel really really difficult. So there has to be some rhythm of like the next time that you'll see each other.

00:22:31
Speaker 3: In my opinion, I agree one hundred percent.

00:22:33
Speaker 4: And do you think that that needs to be set up on on the visit it's like, Okay, I'm here right now. The next time I'm coming out, let's pull out our calendars. I'll see you, you know, two weeks from now or whatever it may be.

00:22:47
Speaker 5: As somebody who was anxiously attached and I've been working on it, I'm like anxiously attached and in recovery.

00:22:52
Speaker 6: I love that. I love that.

00:22:54
Speaker 5: It's like when you go on a date with someone and you're super excited about them and they're like, oh my gosh, when can I see you again? And then it's like this utual thing, and so you kind of know that you're going to see each other again. You don't have to worry or be concerned. So I do love that. I do love that idea.

00:23:07
Speaker 2: So one of the things, so I recently started dating someone who does not live in the same state, Montana.

00:23:13
Speaker 1: And there's quite a bit of distance there too.

00:23:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's quite a bit of distance.

00:23:17
Speaker 2: And I was always completely I swore off I would never do long distance, like I need my person coming home to meet or know that like they're ten to fifteen minutes away. And one of the things that I've been doing to connect with him every morning is I love playing wordle so we started playing Wordle. It's like a good morning text, and then we send each other our Wordle scores, so it's like it doesn't have to because I think sometimes after saying good morning, you know, two weeks in a row is just kind of like it's nice, but I just want something a little more playful or fun or just something outside the box to connect. And this is what we've been doing, and it's been actually really fun.

00:23:56
Speaker 6: I love that.

00:23:57
Speaker 5: I know a lot of couples who have been long distance to who watch TV shows to get other cook meals together.

00:24:02
Speaker 6: I think the main point that I like to make.

00:24:05
Speaker 5: Is that you really have to as you build trust in the relationship and as you realize this is a person you want to spend time with and get to know. I think it's really about letting them into your day to day life because you don't have those moments to just run to the grocery store or like come run some errands with me or pop over for lunch. So letting people into your life, whether that's emotionally or keeping them up to date with kind of what you're doing, I think emotionally is the more important one, is super important.

00:24:32
Speaker 7: So I love that wordal idea. I love changing it up.

00:24:34
Speaker 5: I love just getting a rhythm and a plan that works for the two of you because everyone's so unique, and some people would be like wordle heck no, but other people would be like, yes, I love that.

00:24:42
Speaker 3: I geek out on wordles, so I love it.

00:24:45
Speaker 4: I know when you find your fellow weirdo, it is just a game changer, right. It's so good when you're into the same TV shows.

00:24:53
Speaker 1: And I love that idea too, of.

00:24:56
Speaker 4: You know, at night, the two of you watching the same show, that you can talk about just creating something that goes beyond like you said, the good morning and good night text, because that does that does get old quick.

00:25:10
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, I think the other thing that a lot of people think about is you know, and that forces sometimes For me, I've had, depending on the scenario, some actual relief as a therapist when people have to go long distance. And when I was in the long distance relationship with my husband, it actually forced us to connect more. And I really like that, you know, we didn't have to rush into anything.

00:25:32
Speaker 4: That's I love that you're saying that because I actually prefer so I'm going to get lalla on you.

00:25:40
Speaker 1: I can get digmatized. So if I have.

00:25:44
Speaker 4: Someone who is here in the city around the corner, I think us meeting one time, I know you well enough to jump in the sack with you, and then I don't know if I like you or I like the way you lay the pipe.

00:25:56
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't differentiate the two.

00:25:59
Speaker 5: Yeah.

00:25:59
Speaker 3: No, oh, I'm the same way. I completely understand.

00:26:02
Speaker 4: I think a lot of girls get that way, you know, because we're emotional beings, and I love that.

00:26:07
Speaker 1: But I actually am.

00:26:10
Speaker 4: I'm quite into the long distance thing right now because it causes.

00:26:19
Speaker 1: I have to sit with my feelings.

00:26:21
Speaker 4: We have to have prime communication, which for me, communication is everything.

00:26:26
Speaker 1: Without that, what do you have?

00:26:28
Speaker 4: So it allows me to kind of get the machine working before we take it to the next step. Yes, is there a time frame on that After you've been talking to someone for quite a bit, Let's say, like, at what point do you go, okay, you know, we've seen each other one time, or we've seen each other a couple times, Like what is the time frame before you say who's making the move?

00:26:56
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a great question.

00:26:58
Speaker 5: And just to go back to what you said, I think I think connection and trust and safety are built in these day to day moments of being able to talk things through or have hard conversations. Grand gestures are amazing, or you know, sex may be amazing, but it's really those kind of emotional connections underneath that I think are really going to show you if the relationship is going to last or not. And so in terms of a timeline, again, everyone is so individual. And for you, what you were saying, Laala is that you were a wounded bird and guarded. And for myself back then too, it took me a little bit longer to feel more emotionally connected, to let my guards down in order.

00:27:39
Speaker 7: To say, okay, this is it.

00:27:41
Speaker 6: And I was the one that did move.

00:27:42
Speaker 5: I moved from San Francisco to New York, and I remember talking to all my friends, and I remember talking to my parents, and we were not engaged at that time.

00:27:51
Speaker 6: We had talked about it.

00:27:53
Speaker 5: But again with my wounding in the back of my head, I'm thinking, gosh, I could move three thousand miles, I could give up my career, I could leave my friends, all my community, I could land in New York and he could say, yeah, I'm not really into this anymore, Like there's not a ring on it, and even if there were a ring on it, that could still change, right. So, I think for myself and for everybody else, it's around building that trust and kind of knowing yourself well enough to kind of know what the like guards are that need to be passed in order to trust that.

00:28:23
Speaker 4: Okay, I have another question, A follow them to that I actually have too. The first one, Amber, will you remember them? The first one? You said, grand gestures? How does one know the difference between a grand gesture and love bombing where it's toxic?

00:28:41
Speaker 5: M So, love bombing to me is kind of of the idea of perfection, like everything is amazing and you're so amazing and there are no flaws kind of highlighted and everything is perfect, and we're not going to do the deeper work. We're just going to love bomb you with you know, trips or private planes or cash or clothing or whatever it is, right, or words of affirmation over and over again. I think the grand gestures come along with real, consistent, deep communication. And I actually maybe it's just me as a therapist. I actually really I think it's necessary for couples to have hard moments and hard challenges and arguments to see what's going to happen. And so if you're in the love Bomby phase, to me, you're not really making real growth emotionally over time. When there's a grand gesture, it's usually you know, of like a healthy relationship, it's usually let's go take a trip together, or I book this amazing restaurant or something like that. Along with that emotional depth and talking about the hard things and not avoiding them and feeling seen and heard in your relationship and like you're working through things together, that may be difficult because relationships in the good times are so much easier year than when they hit the hard moments. And I think every relationship needs to hit hard moments to kind of work through that and get the skills under your belt to see long term what that's going to be like.

00:30:11
Speaker 1: Right.

00:30:20
Speaker 4: The other question that I had was back to the wounded birds.

00:30:24
Speaker 1: So after I left our ex, I thank.

00:30:29
Speaker 3: You for not calling him my ex.

00:30:31
Speaker 2: She has this thing where she doesn't want to like identify him, like like she had nothing to do with him, but it's all me.

00:30:37
Speaker 3: It was my fault. Thank you. I really have to say I'm grateful for that.

00:30:41
Speaker 1: I always say when I was dealing with your ex.

00:30:43
Speaker 4: Continue, please, I want to say I took about a year before I went out and started giving men any sort of attention. And I noticed that I was attracting men who took me, who loved bombed me, and took me on high highs and low lows. And I took a step back and said, this has nothing to do with them. This is some work that you need to do on yourself and take a beat and focus on the trauma that's been caused. Which is why we're going into year five of being single, because it's been a lot of work.

00:31:24
Speaker 1: And very hard and emotional. With that work is does it is? Is the work not done?

00:31:33
Speaker 4: Because there are moments that when I'm talking to a man, I go, what if you said, when you were thinking about moving, you didn't have a ring on your finger? What if he says I'm good, Like there's no guarantee. Do I have more work to do if I have those moments pop up?

00:31:55
Speaker 5: So to me, that sounds like anxiety, right, okay, of the fear and the fear of what's already happened. So you've already been through an experience like this where maybe that hunch or maybe that kind of intuition was maybe giving you some signs and maybe you ignored them, or maybe you didn't. But I think that we can only do And now this is a big thought, so let me see if I can say it clearly. I think that we can only do so much healing in relationships by ourselves.

00:32:26
Speaker 7: Any men.

00:32:27
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, And it really takes us being in another relationship to start ironing out the hard spots or the spots that get stuck, or the spots that can't be highlighted or activated when you're by yourself.

00:32:43
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:32:44
Speaker 5: And so the fact that you're saying, if I have anxiety, like I've met this person and they seem great, but I'm still having this anxiety, that is normal, that is expected. Of course you would have that come up in this relationship whenever you start dating again and it's okay. So then what happens from there? Are you able to continue doing the work on yourself and saying is this my stuff? Is this their stuff? Where does the line end and begin? Can I ask for reassurance when I need it? And how do they respond? Do they tell me to just stop being so needy? Or do they actually reassure me? Do they actually want to work on this together, and that through time, I believe, is really what heals some of those attachment woundings. I think that the caveat also needs to be Are you willing to open yourself up again? Are you willing to be vulnerable? Are you willing that this may not work out, that you may be hurt again?

00:33:38
Speaker 4: You saying that I feel like I can't breathe because I have been allowing men into my life the past however many months, but on a very small scale.

00:33:51
Speaker 1: My guard is up.

00:33:52
Speaker 4: If they're here today and gone tomorrow, I will so not be affected because you haven't crossed that barrier, right, And recently I've met someone where I can feel the wall coming down and it is absolutely terrifying.

00:34:10
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:34:12
Speaker 5: It doesn't mean that it's bad, it doesn't mean that it's wrong. It actually means that there's an opportunity for growth here. That's my assessment of what you're sharing.

00:34:20
Speaker 4: Well, I'm going to hold on to what you just said because I told Ambra, I'm like, well, we have Melissa on today.

00:34:26
Speaker 1: I'm like, I feel like I'm not going to be able to talk to her in a blanketed way.

00:34:31
Speaker 4: It's going to be very personal personal experiences.

00:34:34
Speaker 1: Okay, I love this.

00:34:36
Speaker 4: Yeah, how do I call my mind when I start getting into that? You know, like because when this person and I communicate, I can feel myself like.

00:34:46
Speaker 1: Falling pretty hard.

00:34:47
Speaker 7: Yeah.

00:34:48
Speaker 4: And then there are times where at night I think about our communication and at night is the hardest for me start to get in my head and nitpick, and I think, we got to put the guard up. The way that you're feeling right now is not okay. This You could get your heart hurt. What does that mean? Well, it could mentally take me away from my work, mentally take me away from my kids.

00:35:10
Speaker 1: Which is my biggest thing.

00:35:12
Speaker 4: And I actively try to talk myself into building the wallup, and I say, tomorrow, when you text you, you're not going to text back.

00:35:18
Speaker 1: You'll call it. You'll text him the next day. So now like I've gone insane. And then it makes me think, did I not do the fucking work? I feel like I did the fucking work.

00:35:29
Speaker 3: What do you did the work?

00:35:31
Speaker 7: Yes?

00:35:31
Speaker 3: Exactly, this is this is the work.

00:35:34
Speaker 1: It's not you.

00:35:35
Speaker 2: And I'm not a therapist, but I've had some life experience and too much fucking therapy in my life to know that, like you have to just it's like this is where the healing I've I've dated a lot, way more than you have. And what I could take away from all of these dates, these very short lived relationships, whether they were one date or three months, is that I learned something new about myself every single one. And then so like I'm threading together who I am right because I got married very young and then I was in a long term relationship after that. So going out in the dating world, like who am I? What do I actually want? And what do I want was a.

00:36:17
Speaker 3: Really hard question for me.

00:36:19
Speaker 2: I have no idea because the same girl that wanted something very differently when she was nineteen and then when she became a mother, and now I'm thirty seven, I'm like, my wants are at the opposite end of the spectrum. So every time you go out and you date in like those moments that you have, Lola like, it's beautiful, don't beat yourself up.

00:36:41
Speaker 7: Just call me.

00:36:42
Speaker 1: I got your girl, I know you do.

00:36:44
Speaker 2: Wow.

00:36:45
Speaker 1: Is this podcast is titled Lalla's Group Therapy.

00:36:49
Speaker 5: Yeah, I love it. I want to say something that you said earlier, which I sort of feel like should be a well known PSA, which is like at night. I don't know about you all, but I always feel more anxious at night when things are quiet. That is when your mind automatically starts going. So if you can just remind yourself of that, just hear my words in your mind or say it to yourself. Things always feel bigger and scarier at night. And let's not focus on it tonight. We'll think about that tomorrow. That just a caveat could be helpful.

00:37:21
Speaker 1: I can totally do that.

00:37:22
Speaker 7: Yeah, so that could be helpful.

00:37:24
Speaker 5: I think the second piece that you said is like, you know, you're noticing yourself opening your heart and you're getting more invested in this relationship, and with more investment comes maybe some expectations of what's this going to be like?

00:37:36
Speaker 7: And maybe this is.

00:37:37
Speaker 6: What I want?

00:37:38
Speaker 5: And so you're putting more hope into the relationship, and then you have this part of you that comes up and goes ah. I wouldn't respond right away, slow it down. I don't think it's safe. So that to me from you know, studying psychology, and there's this some way of working where we all have parts of ourselves, right, So this part of you that is still really scared and is really nervous to fall back into something that just disappoints you or hurts you. Makes total sense. Just what Amber was saying, like, don't beat yourself up. It makes total sense. And it's coming up in my you know, kind of therapisty speak to be healed, Okay, coming up now, to be healed. So you know, I try not to play games even when you want to.

00:38:21
Speaker 7: It's like, gosh, do you want to be.

00:38:22
Speaker 5: In a relationship that you're going to play games the entire time or you're gonna wear right, you're gonna wear a mask and then the person's going to figure out who you really are and go, wait a second, you were like so different three months ago, and now who's this? And maybe I'm not into that? If you can just try to just be yourself and show up and take things as slow as you need to go, and start maybe doing things a little differently than you're usual, You're so aware, you're like, I'm a wounded bird. I'm guarded, Like, are there anythings different that you could try in this relationship that you haven't done in the past that sort of led to a dead end or a disappointment.

00:38:58
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I'm sure there's a lot. I'll put together the list tonight since my mind will be going. But no, I don't want to play games. The stakes are really high. I'm thirty five years old, i have two kids, and the dating world is so different, like Amber said, than when we were in our twenties and we had nothing to.

00:39:17
Speaker 1: Lose and everything to gain.

00:39:19
Speaker 4: Yes, so now you have to come into my world. And I know that I'm okay by myself, right, I have done the work where I'm one hundred percent and I'm looking for my other one hundred percent.

00:39:35
Speaker 5: What you just said there is revolutionary is amazing because I think so many people, not everybody go into relationship. We have this kind of like Hallmark version of like I need to find someone to complete me. I need to find my other half of the circle. I'm not going to be okay if I'm not with somebody. And maybe because you already had relationship, maybe because you've already had children, you already had that experience, so that's kind of already in your belt that maybe you're not looking for someone to have kids with, where some other people may be still wanting that or longing for that.

00:40:05
Speaker 7: But I think that's huge.

00:40:06
Speaker 5: I think the fact that you're okay alone is where I would say is a lot of the work for people who are looking to date. I think a lot of decisions are made out of fear. A lot of things are kind of your bar is brought down because you want to be with somebody so badly, so good that you're saying that I love that.

00:40:25
Speaker 2: That kind of brings me back to the long distance thing like this could be the perfect setup for you where you have that time alone in that space to feel like, you know, you're good on your own, but then you're bringing someone in occasionally and maybe down the line permanently where he fills up your bucket like that other bucket and now you're just like overflowing as you know, as a human being and like you're thriving that way. This could be the perfect situation for it could be Yeah.

00:40:54
Speaker 1: It could be right.

00:40:55
Speaker 4: I'm like, I get to do my own thing and with you saying you love what I just said, And Lissa, my biggest fear is that if I bring someone in, I will then lose myself and not be one hundred percent anymore.

00:41:08
Speaker 5: I know, I know, and that's a big fear, and that's a risk, and that is a risk that everybody has to take in order to open their heart to love again once they've been hurt.

00:41:18
Speaker 7: Everybody has to go through that.

00:41:19
Speaker 5: And I hear people say all the time, forget it, it's too hard, I can't do it.

00:41:23
Speaker 7: I'm never doing this again.

00:41:25
Speaker 5: But in my kind of experience, I think a lot of us, and there's science to back this up, that we're sort of wired to be in communities where we feel seen and heard and not not kind of be alone, whether that's like best friends or family or relationship. It seems that that is what you're wanting. Some people don't want to be in, you know, monogamous one on one relationship.

00:41:47
Speaker 4: For you, that is something you would use exact at the beginning where you are so into it. I like my eye doesn't wander, I don't feel like I'm missing out. I like a genuine connection where you're my person I arrive.

00:42:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, calms my nervous system, which I'm sure does for you too.

00:42:04
Speaker 1: One percent.

00:42:06
Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah.

00:42:07
Speaker 5: And I also love what Amber said a moment ago, like just this idea of filling up your buckets and how when we date someone you know, people like this, and maybe I've been there too. When you meet somebody and you do lose yourself, you cancel those dates with friends, you stop doing the thing going to the gym, you stop maybe working as hard or you know, doing the hobbies. I think part of healing, especially if there's a wall or anxiety that comes up, is to slow it down a little bit, is to have kind of these deeper emotional checkpoints of Okay, how's this person going to respond if I bring up this vulnerable thing or that vulnerable thing, and really take the time to move through this in a way that makes sense that you can hold onto your life, you know, so that you don't lose these parts of yourself, even if you're like, man, I really want to see him. He's in town, and I know he's only here for a limited time, but I've got plans with my girl friends, like just remember to keep holding on to the parts of you that remind you of who you are outside of this relationship.

00:43:08
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Yeah, that was perfection. Well, let's I have a question for you.

00:43:15
Speaker 2: This is going to may come off so strange because I'm a grown adult with raising teenage daughters and have experienced being verry, divorced, heartbroken in love? What does love mean like when you say like I love you to someone, because I feel like it's changed so many different versions, so romantically, what does that even mean.

00:43:41
Speaker 4: For me?

00:43:42
Speaker 5: It's not maybe going to sound as profound, but in a feeling sense, it's profound for me to love somebody and to feel that love returned is a feeling like I can be who I am, I can show up as I am and.

00:44:00
Speaker 6: In all the parts of that right, So.

00:44:04
Speaker 5: Knowing when I, you know, talk about loving my husband and me feeling loved by him, it's the feeling that, of course, life is going to happen. Of course we're going to argue, Even healthy, happy couples argue, Even therapists argue and say stupid things or like below the belt things that I know better I shouldn't be saying. But it's really to feel loved, in my opinion, is to feel like you have somebody with you by your side that is going to help you navigate and work out whatever is coming your way, and that you can be yourself and that you can be vulnerable and be authentic. And of course there are moments that I'm sure you know, it sounds lovely in theory, and then you put it in practice. And there are things that I've said vulnerably that my husband has a response to or a reaction to that maybe isn't always positive, but we work through it. And I think part of that is knowing that he's going to repair and not give up. That allows me to settle into this relationationship in such a deep way and to feel truly loved.

00:45:04
Speaker 2: Hmmm, I like that. Do you think it's conditional or unconditional or a version of books?

00:45:10
Speaker 5: You know, when I got married, I had in my vowels because I wasn't into football and sports, and I wasn't into like the music that he listened to, and I wasn't into like some of these things.

00:45:20
Speaker 6: And I said in my vowels like I.

00:45:22
Speaker 5: Will love you unconditionally, and I'll learn to love football, and I'll learn.

00:45:26
Speaker 6: To love your music.

00:45:27
Speaker 5: And I'm like, no, I just I think that people come in very differently in relationships, and it's okay to not have the same interests, or to have different opinions, or to have different feelings. I don't like to put it in such black or white terms conditional or unconditional. I think when it goes to unconditional, it's can we work through this together? And even though we have differences of opinion or differences of preferences, as long as they're not deal breakers. Right, If they're deal breakers like you want to be, you know, in a threesome and I don't like that, may be a deal breaker for something, right, maybe yeah, but as long as they're not deal breaker conversations. I think the unconditional part comes in with knowing again that they're willing to repair maybe arguments that went off track or situations that didn't go well and come back to the table and say, you know what, I'm really I'm open to owning my part now, I'm open to having this conversation because the relationship matters more than like winning the fight and winning the argument.

00:46:28
Speaker 1: That's my dream. Man back down, let me just win this.

00:46:33
Speaker 5: One, and knowing you know, if there's a man in your life that kind of knows this is how Laala goes like, let her just have the argument.

00:46:40
Speaker 6: I know she'll settle down and she'll come back to the table.

00:46:43
Speaker 1: Oh, when we can talk about it, Yes, let me be right.

00:46:46
Speaker 4: Then I'll go in my room and I'll think about it and then I'll come out and apologize for mine.

00:46:51
Speaker 7: It's the whole thing, and that to me is unconditional love, Amber.

00:46:54
Speaker 5: Kind of learning your partner's quirks, learning what makes them tick, learning they're wounding, learning their oil, and trying as best as you can not to weaponize it against them.

00:47:04
Speaker 3: No, that's the worst.

00:47:05
Speaker 2: That's no, you shouldn't even be in a relationship if that's what you're doing.

00:47:09
Speaker 6: Agreed.

00:47:10
Speaker 4: I gained so much from this conversation. I'm so happy that you came on. Thank you for giving me. The listeners are gonna love it. Has a lot of work she's got to do. Thank God for this woman, Amber, You're always amazing.

00:47:27
Speaker 6: I love you.

00:47:28
Speaker 4: Best of luck to the both of us and whatever love situation we may find. And thank you so much again, Melissa. I'm so happy for you. You've given me so much.

00:47:36
Speaker 6: Hope, Yay, I'm so glad. Yes, you're more than welcome.

00:47:41
Speaker 4: Have the best day and you, guys, thank you for listening to another episode of an Unlikely Affair.

00:47:46
Speaker 1: We're going to catch you guys next week. Bye bye.