The Outsiders (1983) vs. Rumble Fish (1983): Part 2

<v Speaker 1>All right, everybody, welcome back to the Shuley Can't Be
<v Speaker 1>Serious podcast. This is episode two of our Tulsa duo
<v Speaker 1>that we're doing right here. We're doing The Outsiders from
<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighty three versus Rumblefish from nineteen eighty three. Both
<v Speaker 1>of these Francis fort Coppola, of course, both have Matt
<v Speaker 1>Dillon and them. Yeah, I got a question for you. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>I'd like to play a fifty two pickup. No, don'll
<v Speaker 1>be wise.
<v Speaker 2>He was such a jerk.
<v Speaker 1>He was a jerk.
<v Speaker 2>They said it off at the beginning. It was the
<v Speaker 2>little kids. Yeah, it was the opposite idea of saving
<v Speaker 2>the cat. It was like, what can we make this
<v Speaker 2>guy do that? Everybody's going to hate him right off
<v Speaker 2>of the bat, right, and it's be a jerk to
<v Speaker 2>these little kid Not only does he flip the cards
<v Speaker 2>at him, but then he chases them. You just were
<v Speaker 2>you ever a little kid and you had this like
<v Speaker 2>jerk sure head guy who chased you and was rude
<v Speaker 2>to you. Did you hate his guts?
<v Speaker 1>I wanted to die, still do.
<v Speaker 2>And that's what we got. Like that was my that
<v Speaker 2>was my neighbor. That freaking greaser shot my dog. I
<v Speaker 2>mean I hated the dude like that. Yeah, and he
<v Speaker 2>was he was such a greaser. He was always working
<v Speaker 2>on his Camaro.
<v Speaker 1>We were talking. I was talking to Kayleb before we
<v Speaker 1>started tonight, and he was like, man, I was so
<v Speaker 1>bummed when Dolly got shot at the end, and I'm like,
<v Speaker 1>he's held up a convenience store.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he didn't. Also, he didn't see the beginning. But
<v Speaker 2>somehow this is great. This is great stuff because you
<v Speaker 2>start off hating this guy. I mean you you genuinely hate.
<v Speaker 1>Him, right, he's a turn to Cherry Valance.
<v Speaker 2>And after you see what he does, I mean, that's
<v Speaker 2>another reason to hate him, honestly, Like you see him
<v Speaker 2>be such a jerk to Cherry. And then the last
<v Speaker 2>thing she says is I'll probably end up falling in
<v Speaker 2>love with him, and you know she freaking likes him,
<v Speaker 2>you know, like I'm in the position of phony boar,
<v Speaker 2>where like I'm that guy, I'm the guy who like
<v Speaker 2>she's being so nice to be and I'm totally in
<v Speaker 2>love with her, and she's in love with the guy
<v Speaker 2>who is an absolute jerk to her.
<v Speaker 1>Right, it's inevitable, right.
<v Speaker 2>But then slowly throughout the movie, he keeps doing these
<v Speaker 2>little things to take care of these guys. Right.
<v Speaker 1>He takes care of Johnny and Pony.
<v Speaker 2>I mean when they are in their crisis stage, he
<v Speaker 2>is the one who does not hesitate. He gives them
<v Speaker 2>what they need. He gives I mean, fifty bucks for
<v Speaker 2>a kid in the sixties was huge, gives it to
<v Speaker 2>him immediately, gives him a gun, immediately tells them exactly
<v Speaker 2>where to go and what not to do and what
<v Speaker 2>to do, and I mean he lays it out.
<v Speaker 1>He's kind of their hero at that moment.
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, he saves He saves them and then comes to
<v Speaker 2>see them and saves them again. I mean, he's taking
<v Speaker 2>care of them. He's doing everything he can to protect
<v Speaker 2>them for what he sees to be the bad guy,
<v Speaker 2>so that by the time the end is there and
<v Speaker 2>you see him stick the gun in that guy's face.
<v Speaker 2>I don't remember if they touched on this, but I
<v Speaker 2>think in the book it talks about he always carried
<v Speaker 2>an unloaded gun. Okay, so he's sticking the gun in
<v Speaker 2>the clerk's face, but we know it's unloaded. But then
<v Speaker 2>the clerk's gun is loaded, right, So he's bleeding out
<v Speaker 2>and he decides I'm going to go all the way
<v Speaker 2>and commits suicide.
<v Speaker 1>Do it for Johnny Man, do it for Johnny.
<v Speaker 2>Yep.
<v Speaker 1>By the way, I told you this yesterday.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>I had a great time going around Tulsa finding all
<v Speaker 1>these spots. And some of them you can find on Google.
<v Speaker 1>Some of them you can't. Some of them if you
<v Speaker 1>kind of look around, you might be able to figure
<v Speaker 1>it out. The spot where the fountain is is very recognizable.
<v Speaker 1>You can see that the girls brother's house, it's a landmark.
<v Speaker 1>You can find that easily. But the place where Dally
<v Speaker 1>gets shot and killed, I walked around and I started
<v Speaker 1>to look at my phone try to figure out. Okay,
<v Speaker 1>that tree is there, and that thing's there. Okay, there's
<v Speaker 1>that fence right there. And I figured it out, and
<v Speaker 1>I was standing in the spot. I'm like, go there,
<v Speaker 1>it is right there. And Dolly was shot and killed right.
<v Speaker 2>That you showed me that picture. I'm like, this is
<v Speaker 2>what the guys see as they're running screaming now towards him. Right,
<v Speaker 2>and he goes rolling down the hill.
<v Speaker 1>Crutchfield Park tells, Okloma.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, all right, you're ready to move on to Rumblefish. Yes,
<v Speaker 2>now we get a lot of crossover here, a lot
<v Speaker 2>of crossing. We obviously have Diane Lane still in it.
<v Speaker 2>We've obviously got Matt Dillon still in it. I mentioned
<v Speaker 2>already that Glenn Withrow is both you know, he slash
<v Speaker 2>Mont Dyer's Tim Shepherd or whatever his name is, right,
<v Speaker 2>and is also Biff in the rumble scene and Rumblefish.
<v Speaker 2>But we've got some new people. We got mister Mickey
<v Speaker 2>Rourke who you mentioned audition for The Outsiders didn't get apart,
<v Speaker 2>but Francis was taken with his audition. Okay, let's just
<v Speaker 2>take a step back and think about our origin story here. Yes,
<v Speaker 2>he decides to shoot Rumblefish while he's shooting the Outsiders,
<v Speaker 2>like he was unfamiliar, right, And he literally like gets
<v Speaker 2>the recommendation from Matt Dillon and s he Hinton. He
<v Speaker 2>reads the book and it captivates him so much that
<v Speaker 2>he literally the words fly off the page as he
<v Speaker 2>sits down to write the script for this thing. And
<v Speaker 2>just a few weeks after they are finished filming The Outsiders,
<v Speaker 2>they start filming Rumblefish, and they've got to go through
<v Speaker 2>all of the casting process. But he said, at this time,
<v Speaker 2>with these young actors, he felt like one of the
<v Speaker 2>old directors who had just like their arsenal of actors
<v Speaker 2>that always were willing to work with him. And he
<v Speaker 2>said it was this really great moment where he was
<v Speaker 2>just like he didn't have to go call the casting
<v Speaker 2>director and this person in the studio and that person
<v Speaker 2>and the agents and all this other stuff. He just
<v Speaker 2>called these guys back up and was like, Hey, I
<v Speaker 2>got this other movie. I'd love you to be in it.
<v Speaker 2>Would you like to come? And because he's Francis Ford Coppola,
<v Speaker 2>they were like, yes, yes. And so you've got Mickey
<v Speaker 2>Rourke who had auditioned. You've got Matt Dylan and Diane Lane,
<v Speaker 2>and then you got Dennis Hopper who was in Apocalypse Now.
<v Speaker 2>I mean, he was an icon at the time. He
<v Speaker 2>was very into his intoxication at the time as well,
<v Speaker 2>h which was also a problem with Apocalypse Now. And
<v Speaker 2>Francis Ford Coppolo would be like he He's like, I
<v Speaker 2>love him. I loved Dennis Hoprat's why I want him
<v Speaker 2>in this movie. But his indulgence at the time was
<v Speaker 2>extreme and it would be difficult. And so what I
<v Speaker 2>did to deal with that is that whenever it was
<v Speaker 2>time for him to shoot his scenes, I would go
<v Speaker 2>to my trailer and watch it from a video screen
<v Speaker 2>and I would not be in the same place as him,
<v Speaker 2>and he would get mad and he would come pound
<v Speaker 2>on my door. But that was how I dealt with
<v Speaker 2>him being intoxicated all of the time.
<v Speaker 1>Wow, you know he originally wanted for that role to
<v Speaker 1>Jack Nicholson.
<v Speaker 2>Well, there you go, and the other guy from Easy Writer, right.
<v Speaker 1>Yep, there you go.
<v Speaker 2>Yep.
<v Speaker 1>By the way, Mickey Rourke. Yeah, when you watch Rumblefish,
<v Speaker 1>he's so quiet and like reserved.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he doesn't.
<v Speaker 1>Raise his voice at all. And he's supposed to be
<v Speaker 1>like the coolest guy alive, right, right, he's supposed to
<v Speaker 1>be James Dean on steroids.
<v Speaker 2>Right.
<v Speaker 1>Well, the guys who were in charge of like the
<v Speaker 1>sound kept asking him to speak up, dude, speak up,
<v Speaker 1>and so their nickname for this movie Mumblefish.
<v Speaker 2>Well, they had this idea that he was kind of
<v Speaker 2>the philosopher king, and so they changed his hair. They
<v Speaker 2>wanted to make him look like a French philosopher, so
<v Speaker 2>they picked Camu as their French philosopher to go with. Okay,
<v Speaker 2>and so his haircut and his cigarette, the way he
<v Speaker 2>held a cigarette and all that stuff. That was all
<v Speaker 2>this idea of him being philosophical and intelligent, kind of
<v Speaker 2>the opposite of Rusty James.
<v Speaker 1>By the way, Mickey Rourke decided, I'm going to play
<v Speaker 1>this role as if I'm an actor who no longer
<v Speaker 1>finds my work interesting.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, it's interesting. So here here was his acting technique, right, Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>a couple of talks about this. He's like, so every
<v Speaker 2>day he would show up to set, to the set
<v Speaker 2>and he would have a new little talisman, a new
<v Speaker 2>little fidget spinner, nick knack, whatever you want to know, Okay,
<v Speaker 2>some sort of something right, something new right. And he said,
<v Speaker 2>what Mickey would do is he would take this thing,
<v Speaker 2>he would look at it at the beginning of the day,
<v Speaker 2>he would look at it, and then he would stick
<v Speaker 2>it in his pocket and for the entire scene, every
<v Speaker 2>time he was in a scene, he would spend the
<v Speaker 2>entire scene thinking only about that talisman. And so that's
<v Speaker 2>how you get this kind of distracted thousand yard stare,
<v Speaker 2>I'm pondering the mysteries of the universe. It was he
<v Speaker 2>gave himself something to think about other than what was
<v Speaker 2>going on in the scene. And it really created. I mean,
<v Speaker 2>I love this performance in this I mean you can
<v Speaker 2>call him mumblefish or you can you can call it
<v Speaker 2>whatever you want, but I love it. I mean, he's
<v Speaker 2>he is perfect as the guy who has led the brigade,
<v Speaker 2>only to realize I've got nowhere to go. Yeah, and
<v Speaker 2>that's where he is.
<v Speaker 1>That's the whole point of the movie, right, right, I'm leading,
<v Speaker 1>I'm leading the pied Piper and where am I going?
<v Speaker 1>Everybody's following me, but where am I going?
<v Speaker 2>Right? And he doesn't know the answer to that.
<v Speaker 1>Right, Okay, by the way, Yeah, Mickey Rourke goes on
<v Speaker 1>to do Nine and a half Weeks. He does a
<v Speaker 1>great movie speaking about Man exactly right, Vicki Vale. He
<v Speaker 1>does a very controversial movie in eighty seven with Lisa
<v Speaker 1>Bonet called Angel Heart. Remember that right, got her fired
<v Speaker 1>from the Cosby Show.
<v Speaker 2>Cosby girls do not show their nipples.
<v Speaker 1>That's true. And then later on don't forget In Iron
<v Speaker 1>Man two, he plays whiplash.
<v Speaker 2>And if you want to talk about it, I mean
<v Speaker 2>he's still quiet and contemplative and smoking his cigarettes, but
<v Speaker 2>he doesn't talk like this anymore. I'm like, whoa, how
<v Speaker 2>is that that same voice? What happened. Too many cigarettes.
<v Speaker 2>CHEMU what are you doing here?
<v Speaker 1>That's right by the way. Francis Ford Coppola invited Tom
<v Speaker 1>Cruise to be involved in Rumblefish as well. Okay, and
<v Speaker 1>Tom Cruise was like, listen, I know I told you
<v Speaker 1>that whatever you said, I was there. He goes, but
<v Speaker 1>I'm doing this thing called risky business and I can't
<v Speaker 1>get out of it.
<v Speaker 2>We're gonna be covering that movie soon.
<v Speaker 1>Good call.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, that was a great movie. Yeah, maybe the
<v Speaker 2>eighty three trio. I love it. Okay. We've talked about
<v Speaker 2>Nicholas Cage in this yep, now interesting part in this movie.
<v Speaker 2>There are a lot of kind of key ingredients that
<v Speaker 2>you don't even realize how important a character he's going
<v Speaker 2>to be in this movie until the end, right, And
<v Speaker 2>there's a lot of key ingredients to what happens that
<v Speaker 2>we're all Nick Cage's ideas. So I'm excited to tell
<v Speaker 2>you about that. Come back there. And then we haven't
<v Speaker 2>talked about pre Footloose mister Chris Pinn.
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, I forgot Chris Pinn.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, So Chris Pin Sean Pinn's brother who's in
<v Speaker 2>Reservoir Dogs, who's in footloose pale rider.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he is this over the top and again one
<v Speaker 2>of is very maybe his first this may be his
<v Speaker 2>first movie, I don't remember, but he's this over the
<v Speaker 2>top member of Rusty James's gang. He's entertaining in this.
<v Speaker 2>I don't know how to describe him other than that
<v Speaker 2>she does he plays the part that he needs to
<v Speaker 2>play perfectly well.
<v Speaker 1>He does a great job.
<v Speaker 2>And then we get another guy that we've seen before
<v Speaker 2>in Apocalypse Now, mister Larry Lawrence Fishburn.
<v Speaker 1>Lawrence Fishburn.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Larry Fishburn is his credit in this particular movie.
<v Speaker 2>He wasn't in the script. This again was just one
<v Speaker 2>of those Hey, I really like working with Larry. Let
<v Speaker 2>me give him a call and see what he's got
<v Speaker 2>going on. And he's he calls him up, and the
<v Speaker 2>character's name is Midget, and he's kind of just this
<v Speaker 2>apparitional angel. I mean, he's he's real, but he just floats.
<v Speaker 1>Around like he's always around. Yeah, before you leave, Larry Fishburn, Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>go ahead.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>He goes on to do the Matrix. When Francis Pooracoppola
<v Speaker 1>called him, he said, listen, it's just a small part,
<v Speaker 1>but we'll figure out something cool for you to do.
<v Speaker 1>Just come out, come out to Tulsa, and you can
<v Speaker 1>make it your own and we'll find something creative to
<v Speaker 1>do with it. And he said he was like a
<v Speaker 1>son to me, so I wanted him around.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>I love the kind of familiar atmosphere that he's got,
<v Speaker 1>so sure for sure.
<v Speaker 2>So we got another carry over from the Outsiders, mister
<v Speaker 2>William Smith, who you and I were talking about him.
<v Speaker 2>I was like, man, I saw the cop in Rumblefish,
<v Speaker 2>and I was like, I think that's the same guy
<v Speaker 2>as store clerk and the Outsiders, And I was like,
<v Speaker 2>I know that guy's face. Where do I know that
<v Speaker 2>guy's face? I had to look him up, and he
<v Speaker 2>was Filo Betto's friend but competitor in any which way
<v Speaker 2>you can.
<v Speaker 1>That's exactly right.
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, it's been too long since I've seen
<v Speaker 2>that movie.
<v Speaker 1>I love those movies. Yeah, I would love to talk
<v Speaker 1>about those movies someway too.
<v Speaker 3>Right.
<v Speaker 2>That was like my dad's favorite actor growing up was
<v Speaker 2>always Clint Eastwood, so I'm very familiar with Left Turn Clyde.
<v Speaker 2>I haven't seen those movies in decades, and I would
<v Speaker 2>love to go revisit them. We need to do every
<v Speaker 2>which wave but loose any which way you can, and
<v Speaker 2>maybe we'll compare them to Dirty Harry. I don't know.
<v Speaker 1>Oh that'd be so much fun. Yeah, one other little
<v Speaker 1>side note, I just want to toss in here. Yeah, you
<v Speaker 1>know they say Rusty James over fifty times in.
<v Speaker 2>It was noticeable. It was noticeable. I was like, it's
<v Speaker 2>a little excessive here.
<v Speaker 1>I don't call you James D every four seconds.
<v Speaker 2>Right right? Well, yeah, yeah, there are some people like that.
<v Speaker 2>A lot of people do call me d Grapes. They
<v Speaker 2>do give me the full name. I don't know why
<v Speaker 2>it is. He's don't know if you got to give
<v Speaker 2>me a full name. Let's go with the Graves. So
<v Speaker 2>we as you mentioned, Tom Waits is also in this movie.
<v Speaker 2>He was he was the kind of the club owner
<v Speaker 2>and the outsiders and he is the pool room owner
<v Speaker 2>and rumblefish. And then there's a small part the Blackpool
<v Speaker 2>player who was like, you will never be the motorcycle
<v Speaker 2>boy talking to Rusty James, Right, you'll never be him.
<v Speaker 2>You just it's just not ever gonna happen. That's an
<v Speaker 2>actor named Herb Bryce. He was also an Apocalypse Now
<v Speaker 2>also one of those guys that Francis Coppola just called
<v Speaker 2>up and said, Hey, we're doing this movie. Come over,
<v Speaker 2>let's figure out something to do with you. Just loved him,
<v Speaker 2>wanted me to be there.
<v Speaker 1>That's fantastic.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>By the way, we talked about it before. And I
<v Speaker 1>don't know his name, but Bob from Batman is one
<v Speaker 1>of the thugs in Rubblefish.
<v Speaker 2>That's right, That is right, Bob from Batman.
<v Speaker 1>He's uh, what's his name? In City Slickers in he's
<v Speaker 1>one of those that guy, you know, he's just kind
<v Speaker 1>of that guy in a lot of.
<v Speaker 2>Movies kind of Yeah, he is kind of that, Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>that guy who's always the cookie, the.
<v Speaker 1>Chef, Cookie, the chef. That's exactly right. I'd love to
<v Speaker 1>talk about City Slickers one of these days.
<v Speaker 2>Oh and by the way, one one other person that's
<v Speaker 2>in both movies that we didn't mention, is he hitting Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>that's right. So the author of the book, you know,
<v Speaker 2>she's very involved with production of the movies. In The Outsider,
<v Speaker 2>she is the nurse who is trying to help Dally
<v Speaker 2>as he's just being a.
<v Speaker 1>Total jerk turd to her.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, absolute turd. And then in Rumblefish, she's the hooker.
<v Speaker 1>She's the prostitute.
<v Speaker 2>She is the hooker, and she is flirting with Matt
<v Speaker 2>Dillon and she is flirting with Steve, who's played by
<v Speaker 2>Vincent Spano.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's right.
<v Speaker 2>Vincent Spano was in a lot. He's been in a
<v Speaker 2>ton of stuff. But Nick Cage at the time was blonde.
<v Speaker 2>Had to dye his hair black. Vincent Spano has black hair.
<v Speaker 2>He had to dye his hair blonde. And then one
<v Speaker 2>other person who just has kind of a unique part,
<v Speaker 2>the heroin Addict, former girlfriend of Motorcycle Boy is oh
<v Speaker 2>a girl named Diane Scarwood and her character's name is Cassandra.
<v Speaker 2>And I'm just gonna say that, I'll throw this out
<v Speaker 2>there because it's you know, why not be why not
<v Speaker 2>be that guy? So there's this scene where Dennis Hopper,
<v Speaker 2>Mickey Rourke, Matt Dillon are all in the apartment and
<v Speaker 2>they're goofing and stealing liquor bottles and horse around with
<v Speaker 2>each other. This was all improv like Francis Pourcoppola encouraged
<v Speaker 2>them to try to get familiar with each other in
<v Speaker 2>this way. And this scene, Matt Dylon Rusty James starts
<v Speaker 2>talking about this girl Cassandra and he's like, ah, she
<v Speaker 2>says she's not hooked, but I think she's hooked. And
<v Speaker 2>Dennis Hopper, being the genius that he is, Greek's got him.
<v Speaker 2>And he's Russey James like what and he says, he's like,
<v Speaker 2>the Greek's got him. Yeah. Cassandra is a key character
<v Speaker 2>in Greek mythology. She was a trojan Trojan princess who
<v Speaker 2>Apollo fell in love with. This is I've got to
<v Speaker 2>give this to you because I these are the holes
<v Speaker 2>that I go down. Right. Apollo falls in love with
<v Speaker 2>his Trojan princess, you know, sister to Paris and Hector
<v Speaker 2>and all those folks anyway, and promises her divinity if
<v Speaker 2>she does some you know, favors some things, some things sure,
<v Speaker 2>and she's like, yeah, okay, I'll do that. And so
<v Speaker 2>he gives her divinity and then she says, Okay, I'm
<v Speaker 2>not really going to do that. And so her curse
<v Speaker 2>that he gives her because he couldn't take her divinity
<v Speaker 2>away was that she would always be able to predict
<v Speaker 2>the future, but no one would ever believe her. Uh.
<v Speaker 1>Interesting.
<v Speaker 2>So just something to kind of swim around in your
<v Speaker 2>head as you're thinking about how that Rumblefish plays out,
<v Speaker 2>because I feel like it's connected and maybe it's just
<v Speaker 2>Dennis Hoopper being Dennis Hopper and being awesome, But Mickey
<v Speaker 2>Rourke was right on it and knew what was going on.
<v Speaker 1>There's so many layers rumblfish. I would not put that
<v Speaker 1>past anyone.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so how much does this movie, like did you
<v Speaker 2>identify with, Like, did you think the outsiders? Yeah, like,
<v Speaker 2>I know guys like this. I was in this group.
<v Speaker 2>I was in this group. I was watching these groups
<v Speaker 2>from outside.
<v Speaker 1>Well identified a lot.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>The group that I'm most involved with is the south
<v Speaker 1>Side socials.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>So I did go to a south Side high school.
<v Speaker 2>Uh huh.
<v Speaker 1>That's you know, very affluent, right and preppy even yeah,
<v Speaker 1>with money and so my running crowd were the Socials
<v Speaker 1>for sure.
<v Speaker 2>So jinks, jinks. I went to a smaller school, like
<v Speaker 2>and so it was it was basically saysus and cowboys basically,
<v Speaker 2>but the bigger schools in the town were north Side
<v Speaker 2>and south Side, and it was south Side again that
<v Speaker 2>was more affluent than the north Side. Uh huh. Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>You know the interesting thing about my school and I
<v Speaker 1>don't I don't want to get into my personal stuff
<v Speaker 1>too much. But Jinks is split by the Arkansas River.
<v Speaker 1>But that's the river that Rusty James is trying to
<v Speaker 1>get those fish into, right, is that's the Arkansas River, Right.
<v Speaker 1>I crossed that river every single day. I went high
<v Speaker 1>school there and back.
<v Speaker 2>Yep, so I live. I live next to the Arkansas
<v Speaker 2>River in an entirely different place. I was in Fort Smith. Yeah, yeah,
<v Speaker 2>it says, yeah river, Arkansas River flowed right by the town,
<v Speaker 2>right in between you know, us and Oklahoma. Really there
<v Speaker 2>you go. So was there anything about Rumblefish that you
<v Speaker 2>were like, oh yeah, okay, yeah, I remember something like
<v Speaker 2>that as a kid, not as much, not as much
<v Speaker 2>both teen movies, right, sure, but you definitely have what
<v Speaker 2>was kind of the t were the tropes of teen
<v Speaker 2>movies back in the eighties, especially right, but with Rumblefish
<v Speaker 2>you still had some stuff that for me, as you know,
<v Speaker 2>a small town kid, I was like, oh, yeah, there's
<v Speaker 2>the pool room. Like everybody always went and played pool
<v Speaker 2>at the pool room. That was where we hung out
<v Speaker 2>right right. You know, somebody would be playing music on
<v Speaker 2>the jukebox, we'd be talking very much like daised and
<v Speaker 2>confused pool video games foosball. That's what we did. And
<v Speaker 2>then there was a part and Koppla talked about this
<v Speaker 2>as well, where they're under the bridge. It's after they've
<v Speaker 2>been mugged by Bob and the guy with the pro
<v Speaker 2>bar or whatever, right right, and they're under the bridge.
<v Speaker 2>And he talked about how when you're a kid, you
<v Speaker 2>just try to kind of find places to go that
<v Speaker 2>are your places and are secret and mysterious, and he
<v Speaker 2>says a lot of times for a kid that is
<v Speaker 2>a bridge sure totally hit home for me. It was
<v Speaker 2>the bridge that went over the Arkansas River. Like there's
<v Speaker 2>a huge bridge that goes that crosses the border between
<v Speaker 2>Arkansas and Oklahoma. And when I was a teenager and
<v Speaker 2>and running around and getting into mischief, at some point
<v Speaker 2>I was under the bridge and I looked up and
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, there's a ladder, and I realized that the
<v Speaker 2>ladder went up to this crawl space that was literally
<v Speaker 2>under the bridge. And I realized I can crawl all
<v Speaker 2>the way from Arkansas to Oklahoma on my hands and
<v Speaker 2>knees going underneath this bridge. And that's exactly what I did.
<v Speaker 2>And then I started bringing friends there. I'm like, guys,
<v Speaker 2>you got to see.
<v Speaker 1>This, So that's awesome.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that is the beauty about these two movies. As
<v Speaker 2>polar opposites, you still look at them and you go, yeah,
<v Speaker 2>that's like it was sure I was a kid, right, sure,
<v Speaker 2>or if you're a kid, yeah that is me that
<v Speaker 2>And I think that's why all of those kids had
<v Speaker 2>such a strong identification with the outsiders, so much so
<v Speaker 2>that they were like, hey, mister Koppla, will you please
<v Speaker 2>make this into a movie?
<v Speaker 1>Sure? Yeah, I got one last Arkansas River story for you. Okay,
<v Speaker 1>last day of seventh grade. Okay, nineteen eighty six. I
<v Speaker 1>still remember I had Van Halen fifty one fifty in
<v Speaker 1>my walkman. Okay, we're crossing the river on my you know,
<v Speaker 1>the yellow school bus. Yeah, not the short one, the
<v Speaker 1>long one. And we decide that the funniest thing ever
<v Speaker 1>would be if we all threw all of our papers
<v Speaker 1>out of the window at the same time and like
<v Speaker 1>the entire school and it just caught fire like that bus.
<v Speaker 1>We saw that bus doing it, so we did it
<v Speaker 1>the next bus. We dumped so much paper into the
<v Speaker 1>Arkansas River.
<v Speaker 2>Now, the other thing, the other thing that hit home
<v Speaker 2>for me, would not have hit home for me as
<v Speaker 2>a teenager but as a now in my forties year
<v Speaker 2>old man. Was the speech that Tom Waits gives as
<v Speaker 2>Benny in Rumblefish Okay, where he's talking, he's cleaning up glasses,
<v Speaker 2>he's cleaning up the bar, and Bennie's billiards right right,
<v Speaker 2>And it's this kind of weird angled shot from the
<v Speaker 2>ceiling where you, as he's talking, you're looking kind of
<v Speaker 2>down over the top of his head and you have
<v Speaker 2>a very big space and the picture that's taken up
<v Speaker 2>by this clock where it's got this scrolling kind of
<v Speaker 2>menu and specials thing. And he's talking about how when
<v Speaker 2>you're young, you can lose a year or two and
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't make any difference. But at some point, and
<v Speaker 2>he says the line, he's like, at some point you
<v Speaker 2>realize you've only got thirty five summers left.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, imagine that.
<v Speaker 2>Thirty five summers. And I thought about it for a second.
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, I don't think I have thirty five summers.
<v Speaker 2>And that's the key kind of clincher for this teen
<v Speaker 2>movie is it's all about time, right, And so if
<v Speaker 2>you if you watch with that in mind, you will
<v Speaker 2>see clocks everywhere. They are everywhere all over the place.
<v Speaker 2>And what's looming, right, I haven't. I'm giving you my
<v Speaker 2>own interpretation of this. But what's looming in this movie
<v Speaker 2>is that cop. Right, the cop has it out for
<v Speaker 2>Motorcycle Boy, he writes, and we know how the movie ends,
<v Speaker 2>so we know it's coming. And it's as though Rusty
<v Speaker 2>James knows that that's what's coming as well. And he's
<v Speaker 2>the little brother who got left alone, which is as
<v Speaker 2>a little brother, that's the terrifying thing.
<v Speaker 4>You know.
<v Speaker 2>I felt like Francis Ford Copla did about his older brother.
<v Speaker 2>I feel that way about my brother, like he was
<v Speaker 2>the first and best teacher I had, right, and when
<v Speaker 2>he's gone, when he's missing, that's troubling to me. And
<v Speaker 2>so you've got this scene where the cop walks up
<v Speaker 2>to Motorcycle Boy and Rusty James inserts himself in between
<v Speaker 2>those two, protecting his brother from death. The cop has
<v Speaker 2>got to be death right right. They are standing in
<v Speaker 2>front of a gigantic cluck.
<v Speaker 1>It's a huge clock with.
<v Speaker 2>No hands on it. It is fantastic. I mean, Francis
<v Speaker 2>Ford Coppola in this movie, and Rumblefish is definitely tapping
<v Speaker 2>into the art film, into the existentialist style of the
<v Speaker 2>Germans that he loved, you know ing bar Bergmann and
<v Speaker 2>all these other You have these, you have the time
<v Speaker 2>last photography. You have the black and white. He even
<v Speaker 2>painted shadows on things to give it the right feel.
<v Speaker 2>And the only things that you have in color are
<v Speaker 2>the fish, the rumblefish.
<v Speaker 1>Right, Okay, I'm dying to talk about that. Yeah, this
<v Speaker 1>is a black.
<v Speaker 2>And white movie.
<v Speaker 1>And keep in mind this is nineteen eighty three. You
<v Speaker 1>can't computer color stuff. The only thing in color are
<v Speaker 1>the fish.
<v Speaker 2>Right.
<v Speaker 1>That was a stunning visual for me. Right, it's like
<v Speaker 1>have you ever seen the movie Pleasant Bill? Yeah, it's
<v Speaker 1>sort of similar type of feels.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, it's not done with the computer at that time.
<v Speaker 2>They just filmed it in color and then did an
<v Speaker 2>overlay so that only the fish would be in color.
<v Speaker 2>One other part is when Russey James realizes he will
<v Speaker 2>never achieve his dream, which is to be his older brother,
<v Speaker 2>to become his older brother. He will never achieve it.
<v Speaker 2>He just watched him die. He does this last ditch
<v Speaker 2>effort to kind of finish his mission of putting the
<v Speaker 2>rumblefish in the river. So kill each other, right, maybe
<v Speaker 2>they won't kill each other, and then he gets arrested.
<v Speaker 2>And when you see him getting arrested, you see him
<v Speaker 2>look at himself in the reflection of the cop car
<v Speaker 2>window and he's in color.
<v Speaker 1>It's awesome. It's awesome.
<v Speaker 2>There's a lot going on, and I'm really disappointed that
<v Speaker 2>Rumblefish wasn't better received than it was.
<v Speaker 1>You know, and Copla when he's doing his commentary, he
<v Speaker 1>can't really understand it because he's like, I just don't
<v Speaker 1>really get it. And I saw a guy. You know,
<v Speaker 1>Copola is a wonderful artist, but this guy said he
<v Speaker 1>had the financial sense of a newt Right. But this
<v Speaker 1>movie is so interesting. If you haven't seen it recently,
<v Speaker 1>you really owe it to yourself to give it a rewatch.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I don't think I've mentioned this yet, but
<v Speaker 2>this is one of those movies that I'm like, well,
<v Speaker 2>actually I haven't seen that movie. And he's like, watch,
<v Speaker 2>you haven't seen The Outsiders, right, Yeah. Before we did this,
<v Speaker 2>I had not seen The Outsiders. I had not seen Rumblefish.
<v Speaker 2>So I literally got to watch these movies back to back,
<v Speaker 2>back to back a few days apart, and they are
<v Speaker 2>so very different experience, and I don't know as a
<v Speaker 2>teenager in the eighties, I probably would have been like
<v Speaker 2>everybody else. I been like Outsiders is great. Rumblefish weird
<v Speaker 2>right now as a man who's watched a bunch of
<v Speaker 2>movies and has some more mature taste, I don't want
<v Speaker 2>to tip my hand here, but Rumblefish is definitely a
<v Speaker 2>movie that you, guys, if you haven't seen it, please
<v Speaker 2>go watch.
<v Speaker 1>I could call that, by the way, I haven't said yet. Hey,
<v Speaker 1>by the way that Okay, there's one thing I really
<v Speaker 1>want to talk about with you in pertaining to Rumblefish,
<v Speaker 1>the out of body experience that Rusty James has. Okay,
<v Speaker 1>I know that practically speaking, they had to make a
<v Speaker 1>body mold for Matt Dillon and it was kind of
<v Speaker 1>uncomfortably couldn't move around, and they actually had to use
<v Speaker 1>a crane to kind of move him around. And it
<v Speaker 1>looks really cool, and I think Bram Stoker's Dracula again,
<v Speaker 1>Francis Farcoppola, right, it's a practical effect and he's moving
<v Speaker 1>around hovery and sort of out of body experience. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>what did you think about that scene?
<v Speaker 2>Well, what I thought was he is envisioning his death,
<v Speaker 2>like everyone wants their death. To be. When he goes
<v Speaker 2>by the house that his girlfriend and her little sister,
<v Speaker 2>they're balling their eyes out right, they're hysterical with grief
<v Speaker 2>right when he goes and he and he goes past
<v Speaker 2>the pool and by the way side note he also
<v Speaker 2>continues to lie to her at that point. He did
<v Speaker 2>not screw around with the other girl and smokes a cigarette.
<v Speaker 2>That's some funny stuff right there. But anyway, and then
<v Speaker 2>he goes to the pool room and all of his friends,
<v Speaker 2>all of his friends are like raising a toast, you know,
<v Speaker 2>it was an honor to know you. Kind of situation.
<v Speaker 2>Did I think he was dead? Yeah? But I started going,
<v Speaker 2>is this is just his dream of what death would
<v Speaker 2>be like? This isn't actually it?
<v Speaker 1>So I read some stuff. A lot of people had
<v Speaker 1>trouble with that particular scene, and for me, it works.
<v Speaker 1>It works in the movie. The movie is just weird
<v Speaker 1>enough that it pulls off all these things. But it's
<v Speaker 1>consistent because when he's in his high school shop class,
<v Speaker 1>he's daydreaming about his girlfriend and she's in lingerie on
<v Speaker 1>top of the bookshelves.
<v Speaker 2>With a clock behind her, by the way, with the clock.
<v Speaker 1>Behind her, and so there are some sort of in
<v Speaker 1>and out imaginary things that happen.
<v Speaker 2>It's interesting because they don't give you a clear transition,
<v Speaker 2>Like you are watching stuff where he's in class and
<v Speaker 2>is looking at her, and so you're like, you know,
<v Speaker 2>this is a dream. She's not going to really be
<v Speaker 2>in a bikini or in lingerie on the top shelf
<v Speaker 2>in the classroom, right, And then he goes back to
<v Speaker 2>him as he's kind of in this fever from being slashed,
<v Speaker 2>and then he goes back again. He's in shop class
<v Speaker 2>and you see her in the clock is spinning, and
<v Speaker 2>then all of a sudden he's talking to her outside
<v Speaker 2>of her house, helping with the groceries out of the trunk,
<v Speaker 2>and you're like, is this another dream? Right? Oh wait, no,
<v Speaker 2>this is it And there's no clear cut Hey, okay,
<v Speaker 2>we're back to reality now. It's just they kind of
<v Speaker 2>mix it in and I'm like, okay, I guess we
<v Speaker 2>just got better. And that's it. You don't really have
<v Speaker 2>any more on it. Hi.
<v Speaker 4>I'm Daton, the host of the docum based seventy seven podcast.
<v Speaker 4>We talk about everything from Anthrax to the Muppets to
<v Speaker 4>West Side Story.
<v Speaker 1>All right, boys, buckle up, because we have hit the
<v Speaker 1>bottom of the barrel because he slaughters all the Tusken Raiders.
<v Speaker 1>The fact that she stays by his side, that that
<v Speaker 1>tells me everything I need to do about these women
<v Speaker 1>that write letters to serial killers in prison.
<v Speaker 2>You know, it makes it made sense.
<v Speaker 1>You know, MOPy Young Sad always dumped Tim.
<v Speaker 2>That was the theme song.
<v Speaker 3>You know.
<v Speaker 2>When you listen, Tim, did you have the volume on?
<v Speaker 2>The witches are definitely much more nightmare fuel. But the
<v Speaker 2>fact that they look like the Texas Chainsaw centerfolds.
<v Speaker 4>If Jango fet is so awesome, he's hired to be cloned,
<v Speaker 4>Why the hell isn't he doing the job? You like,
<v Speaker 4>Mike Client's getting impatient, Well, then what your slack ass mother?
<v Speaker 1>Why don't you do it?
<v Speaker 4>You know you just check us out on Apple podcast,
<v Speaker 4>good Pods, pod Beam, or wherever you get your podcasts.
<v Speaker 2>One other thing we've talked several times now about the
<v Speaker 2>fact that you have gone to these different places, both
<v Speaker 2>in Rumblefish and in The Outsiders. There was a place
<v Speaker 2>that was very cool looking in Rumblefish, okay that you
<v Speaker 2>will not be able to find okay because they completely
<v Speaker 2>created it. But it was still in Tulsa. Yeah, it's
<v Speaker 2>the fair. Yeah. So when they go to the black
<v Speaker 2>neighborhood where everybody is having a fantastic time, I mean,
<v Speaker 2>it looks awesome. It looks great, Like I want to
<v Speaker 2>go hang out there and listen to Queen Eye to
<v Speaker 2>sing the blues and drink beer and playpool, listen to
<v Speaker 2>you know, guys playing guitar, and it was awesome. It
<v Speaker 2>was completely created for the movie at an abandoned alleyway
<v Speaker 2>and area of Tulsa, Oklahoma. Yeah, video arcade, right, he's
<v Speaker 2>playing the video arcade. That's the other thing about this,
<v Speaker 2>Like The Outsiders, it it takes place in the sixties
<v Speaker 2>and looks like it could be very well in the eighties.
<v Speaker 2>And this movie looks like it's taking place in the sixties.
<v Speaker 2>But video games, magazines, cars all giveaway this is the eighties. Yep.
<v Speaker 1>Hey, one of the things I wanted to talk to
<v Speaker 1>you about this is a conversation I had with our
<v Speaker 1>buddy Jeff Johnson. Okay, the score and music for both
<v Speaker 1>of these Now for me, you have that the Stevie
<v Speaker 1>Wonder song at the beginning of Outsiders, yep, which is
<v Speaker 1>very after school special.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>I'm not a fan at all of that right, And
<v Speaker 1>I know you and I talked. I said, you know,
<v Speaker 1>there's this sort of over the top score. It really
<v Speaker 1>adds a lot of cheese to it.
<v Speaker 2>It's wrong.
<v Speaker 1>We didn't like it at all.
<v Speaker 2>Carmine Coppola, Yes.
<v Speaker 1>His dad did the music for it.
<v Speaker 2>So now this guy, I mean, he was a very
<v Speaker 2>well known composer, had done a ton of work before this,
<v Speaker 2>Francis Ford coupla. Once he had it and had heard
<v Speaker 2>the score, he was like, I don't really think this
<v Speaker 2>is right for this movie, but I don't have the
<v Speaker 2>courage to tell my dad that. So he just went
<v Speaker 2>with He just went with it. And so when they
<v Speaker 2>did the DVD re release where they added scenes that
<v Speaker 2>had been cut, added the trial scene that we talked about, he,
<v Speaker 2>I mean, his dad had passed away at that point.
<v Speaker 2>He's like, well, I'm a little free now to do
<v Speaker 2>more of what I want. And so, as I understand,
<v Speaker 2>I haven't seen it, but they like they put more
<v Speaker 2>sixties songs in there and made it more of a
<v Speaker 2>sixties feel popular.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, sound so listen to this.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>So you and I had a conversation a couple of
<v Speaker 1>days ago, and we're like, the score it's it's way
<v Speaker 1>too much after school special. It's too much. Copla didn't
<v Speaker 1>like it. His dad did it. He was in a pinch.
<v Speaker 1>We get it, okay, But you and I had talked
<v Speaker 1>him basically agreed that if they had dropped that and
<v Speaker 1>plugged in some rock and roll, sixties era rock and roll,
<v Speaker 1>it really jazzed up and make it feel better. So
<v Speaker 1>I talked to Jeff Johnson and I called him up,
<v Speaker 1>and he loves The Outsiders, and he asked me, he said,
<v Speaker 1>have you seen the complete novel version of The Outsiders?
<v Speaker 1>And I said, well, no, I'm watching the one on
<v Speaker 1>HBO Max. And he's like, whatever you do, don't waste
<v Speaker 1>your time with the new complete volume. Really, and his
<v Speaker 1>complaint was the music, really, And I said, what are
<v Speaker 1>you talking about. He's like, they took out that score
<v Speaker 1>and they like ram rock and roll down your throat,
<v Speaker 1>like sixties era rock, and I'm like, are you kidding?
<v Speaker 1>So anyway, he was very, very firm that Copola's score
<v Speaker 1>was better than the rock that they added. So I
<v Speaker 1>think that's interesting because we had said that's how to
<v Speaker 1>make it better.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's crazy interesting.
<v Speaker 1>By the way. One more thing, yeah, the music for Rumblefish.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is good is.
<v Speaker 1>Done by our main man, Stuart Copeland of the Police.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so here's the thing. We get to Rumblefish and
<v Speaker 2>he's like, Dad's not going to score this one. He
<v Speaker 2>was actually going to try to score it himself. He
<v Speaker 2>had gotten together and he again the key, like the
<v Speaker 2>theme word for this is time. So what else are
<v Speaker 2>you going to do? But you're gonna have a metronome
<v Speaker 2>beaten out of very clear time signature, right, And they
<v Speaker 2>based their rhythm around a clock. And so he's kind
<v Speaker 2>of got this idea. He knew of Stuart Copeland with
<v Speaker 2>his work with the Police, and he said he was
<v Speaker 2>so precise, he was so mathematically precise with his rhythm.
<v Speaker 2>He asked him to do the drums for this movie.
<v Speaker 2>And so he gives them this music that he's kind
<v Speaker 2>of worked up and Stuart Copeland starts playing with it,
<v Speaker 2>and then Stuart Copeland comes to him and says, how
<v Speaker 2>would you feel if I did the whole score? And
<v Speaker 2>so he said it wasn't strikingly different from what he
<v Speaker 2>had come up with. It was still very similar, but
<v Speaker 2>it was better for sure what Stuart Copeland had done.
<v Speaker 2>And this is a big deal because at that point
<v Speaker 2>he's just the drummer for the police, which is not insignificant,
<v Speaker 2>but he goes on to become a substantial film composer
<v Speaker 2>after this.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so besides putting Sting in a headlock, he can
<v Speaker 1>actually compose the stuff for movies.
<v Speaker 2>Right. One other thing on the sound note is sound designer,
<v Speaker 2>and this is an interesting story as well. So Richard
<v Speaker 2>Beggs is the sound designer for Rumblefishka And there was
<v Speaker 2>something going on with the union with the sound editors union.
<v Speaker 1>And they the sound editors have a union, yes, sound editors.
<v Speaker 2>So there's the sound editors have a union and they
<v Speaker 2>for some reason they couldn't they wouldn't let Richard Baggs
<v Speaker 2>be a sound editor on this movie, okay. And they're like, well,
<v Speaker 2>you know, we really need him, we really want him.
<v Speaker 2>What can we do? And they're like, listen, you can
<v Speaker 2>use him, but you just you can't use editor in
<v Speaker 2>the title. You can use him for something else, but
<v Speaker 2>you just can't call him an editor, okay. And so
<v Speaker 2>they're like, so could we call him a designer? And
<v Speaker 2>at this stage in history, we've heard sound designer a
<v Speaker 2>million times. This is where it started. They couldn't call
<v Speaker 2>Richard Beggs a sound editor, so they came up with
<v Speaker 2>the term sound designer. And now that is what you
<v Speaker 2>aspire to if you are a sound editor, now to
<v Speaker 2>be a sound designer. But on that note, Fristopher Coppola
<v Speaker 2>had bought this really expensive projector, and so the scene
<v Speaker 2>with Bob and the guy with the crowbar, there's this
<v Speaker 2>moment where the guy with the crowbar comes up and
<v Speaker 2>wax Rusty James wax Matt Dillon in the head. And
<v Speaker 2>so when he was doing the scene, he had this projector,
<v Speaker 2>this very very expensive projector that he had gotten, showing
<v Speaker 2>the scene as it was being shot. And like he said,
<v Speaker 2>they're out in the city and all these bums and
<v Speaker 2>criminals are wandering over and they're watching this big projector
<v Speaker 2>of him getting hit in the head with a crowbar,
<v Speaker 2>and after each take they'd be like no, no, not
<v Speaker 2>real no no, and so he's like, really, it's like okay.
<v Speaker 2>So it goes back and they do like nineteen takes
<v Speaker 2>and every single time these guys are like, no, not realistic,
<v Speaker 2>no no. And so then he realizes He's like, there's
<v Speaker 2>no sound. You don't have the sound of the crowbar
<v Speaker 2>hitting because he's not really hitting him with his head sure,
<v Speaker 2>and he's like, so he has bags throw the sound
<v Speaker 2>in and they're like, yep, that's it.
<v Speaker 1>That's it.
<v Speaker 2>He ends up using his third take, after nineteen takes
<v Speaker 2>of hitting Matt Dillan over the head of the crowbar.
<v Speaker 2>He uses the third take.
<v Speaker 1>Nice that is locationally deep in downtown Tulsa. Yeah, between
<v Speaker 1>big buildings.
<v Speaker 2>I'm glad I get to experience that in a Dinify.
<v Speaker 1>That was a fun conversation we had. Yes, I got
<v Speaker 1>something for you on this. Okay. During The Outsiders, Francis
<v Speaker 1>port Coppola did want to set up some animosity between
<v Speaker 1>the group of actors who were the Sosias and the
<v Speaker 1>group of actors who were Greasers, and he did it
<v Speaker 1>several different ways. Okay, for the Sosias, they got a
<v Speaker 1>like a leather bound, really nice copy of the script,
<v Speaker 1>and the Greasers got like punch holed, laminated, you know,
<v Speaker 1>crappy version of the script.
<v Speaker 2>Uh huh. See.
<v Speaker 1>Thomas hal talks about how one day they decided, okay, guys,
<v Speaker 1>we're all gonna go play football. Here's your sweatpants and
<v Speaker 1>a black T shirt that says greasers across the front
<v Speaker 1>of it, and then he gave like a matching high
<v Speaker 1>dollar jumpsuit and really nice shoes to the Sosias. And
<v Speaker 1>when the Greasers and Soshas squared out on this little
<v Speaker 1>game of football, see Thomas, How's like, we were intent
<v Speaker 1>on kicking the crap out of them, and he's on
<v Speaker 1>that day we lit them up nice. Rob Loo said
<v Speaker 1>that one night Francis fot Coppola came to him and said, hey,
<v Speaker 1>how about you and Cruz go sleeping over at a
<v Speaker 1>greaser's house. And they're like, what what do you what
<v Speaker 1>are you talking about? And he's like, yeah, there's this
<v Speaker 1>guy who was a greaser. Go spend the night at
<v Speaker 1>his house. And so Roblo and Tom Cruise went over
<v Speaker 1>this guy's house. They ended up sleeping in the basement.
<v Speaker 1>But they're just young kids and they're down there like,
<v Speaker 1>we don't we don't know these people, what are we
<v Speaker 1>doing here? So Copla did all kinds of stuff like
<v Speaker 1>that to them. I also heard the actress talk one
<v Speaker 1>of the benefits for being cast in this movie. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>all the beer they could drink.
<v Speaker 2>Oh nice, it's teenager.
<v Speaker 1>They just kind of kept the beer flowing for teenage boys.
<v Speaker 2>Well that's all right, yeah, that's I mean. Yeah, my
<v Speaker 2>sister in love mentioned there was a lot of barbecue
<v Speaker 2>and a lot of partying going on.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Tom Cruise came back through Tulsa several years later,
<v Speaker 1>like this is in the nine or something. Yeah, and
<v Speaker 1>he ran into one of the girls who said, I
<v Speaker 1>worked at the hotel when you guys stayed here for
<v Speaker 1>the Outsiders. The first words he said to her was,
<v Speaker 1>I am sorry. Yeah, yeah, because they did all kinds
<v Speaker 1>of I mean shenanigans in the hotel teenage boys.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I've got three of them right now. I know
<v Speaker 2>how shenanigans can go.
<v Speaker 1>Apparently in the hotel lobby there was a fountain where
<v Speaker 1>they re enacted the drowning scene.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, that's hysterical. Okay, So one last thing talking
<v Speaker 2>about the end of Rumblefish, and I mentioned in our
<v Speaker 2>last episode that Nick Cage in his debut role that
<v Speaker 2>you know, you think he's a sideman until the very end,
<v Speaker 2>when you know Patty and Rusty James have broken up, right,
<v Speaker 2>and then Rusty James of course he's back in the
<v Speaker 2>pool hall. He's playing pool and Patty shows up. Oh
<v Speaker 2>my holy did she look good?
<v Speaker 1>Hey, Diane Lane is a beautiful woman.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And he thinks she's there to see him, and
<v Speaker 2>she's not. She's there to see Nick Cage. Yep, the
<v Speaker 2>wild deuce is the heir apparent. Now we know that,
<v Speaker 2>we know that Rusty James is not going to be
<v Speaker 2>the one that takes over for his brother, and so
<v Speaker 2>so Nick Cage sits down and he starts flirting with her,
<v Speaker 2>and they've obviously developed this relationship. And you realize Nick
<v Speaker 2>Cage's character is the one who set.
<v Speaker 1>Him up, and you've fractured the party.
<v Speaker 2>Right, manufactured the party where Russy James has the affair
<v Speaker 2>and then tells her about it or gets word to
<v Speaker 2>her about it, so that she's got a reason to
<v Speaker 2>leave him, and then he can slip in, just like
<v Speaker 2>Machiavelli here, slip into the king's throne.
<v Speaker 1>Right, sure enough.
<v Speaker 2>So he's doing these little flirtatious things and like giving
<v Speaker 2>he's like giving her a locket with a picture of
<v Speaker 2>him as a baby in it. That's Nick Cage's idea, right,
<v Speaker 2>Like all of these little flirty things that he's doing
<v Speaker 2>all Nick Cage's idea. And then Coppola has this moment
<v Speaker 2>that he was excited about, right where Russy James keeps
<v Speaker 2>asking him to step outside, step outside, and you think
<v Speaker 2>it's going to be a fight. And then they go
<v Speaker 2>out and discuss and Russy James realizes that he's been
<v Speaker 2>set up, but is like, admires the tenacity and the
<v Speaker 2>gumption of this guy. And so there's this moment where
<v Speaker 2>he hands over the pool cue as though he's handing
<v Speaker 2>over the throne to this new guy, right, and then
<v Speaker 2>Nick Cage decides to drop it, and that's why it
<v Speaker 2>gets dropped. It was it was like, I don't need
<v Speaker 2>your pool queue. I did this on my own. You're
<v Speaker 2>not giving me something. I took it from you. So
<v Speaker 2>he took Coupla's idea and took it a level up.
<v Speaker 1>That's cool. I like that, yeah, yeah.
<v Speaker 2>And then one last hipbit, This is the last tibbit
<v Speaker 2>I have. Also, Richard Beggs was trying to find this
<v Speaker 2>perfect sound for the fan that's going on in the
<v Speaker 2>pool room, and they you know, they're going through different
<v Speaker 2>fans and finally he's got the fan that he thinks
<v Speaker 2>is the right fan sound for an old, dusty pool room,
<v Speaker 2>and couples there and he's like, it doesn't sound gritty enough.
<v Speaker 2>And he's like, what does that mean. He's like, it
<v Speaker 2>just doesn't like, I don't think it sounds right for
<v Speaker 2>a downtown pool. It doesn't sound gritty enough. He's like,
<v Speaker 2>I don't even know. And couple goes, picks up the fan,
<v Speaker 2>slams it against the floor, picks it back up, turns
<v Speaker 2>it on. He's like, yeah, no, that's good.
<v Speaker 1>That's good. By the way, I did try to go
<v Speaker 1>to the location of the pet store in Rumblefish. That
<v Speaker 1>building no longer exists, So there you go.
<v Speaker 2>Pets are free.
<v Speaker 1>Are we ready for final judgment?
<v Speaker 2>The time is now?
<v Speaker 1>That was then, this is now, right, let's do it.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, you first?
<v Speaker 1>Okay. So I did grow up having a relationship with
<v Speaker 1>the outs The cast is absolutely undeniable. I read the
<v Speaker 1>book growing up, so Outsiders had a way head start
<v Speaker 1>in my mind with these two movies. Now, I love
<v Speaker 1>both because I love my hometown. Rumblefish is different. It's odd,
<v Speaker 1>it's artistic, but man, I can't take my eyes off
<v Speaker 1>of it. Right, And they really are two sides to
<v Speaker 1>the same coin. I enjoyed the darkness and sort of
<v Speaker 1>the r ratedness of Rumblefish, but I just can't leave
<v Speaker 1>my first love. I have to stick with the outsiders.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So I didn't grow up with the outsiders. I
<v Speaker 2>mean I was familiar with it. I was not familiar
<v Speaker 2>with Rumblefish at all. I'd probably heard the name, but
<v Speaker 2>I couldn't have told you who was an it, or
<v Speaker 2>right that it came out the same year, that it
<v Speaker 2>was the same director, same writer, all of that stuff, right,
<v Speaker 2>And obviously I grew up with those guys, right Rob
<v Speaker 2>Love who did its swayzy? Right? When I saw it,
<v Speaker 2>I was surprised and I couldn't put the words to
<v Speaker 2>it of why, And I don't want to say it
<v Speaker 2>was disappointed, but I was just like, I was like,
<v Speaker 2>this is not what I expected. And then it was
<v Speaker 2>the soundtrack and I was like, why am I listening
<v Speaker 2>to this music with this It just doesn't They weren't.
<v Speaker 2>They didn't go together for me. So it made me
<v Speaker 2>feel good that when I read later on the phrases
<v Speaker 2>couple didn't like it either, right, and you told me, oh,
<v Speaker 2>it's his dad, but the words that you use where
<v Speaker 2>it's got this kind of after school special feel about it,
<v Speaker 2>and that's absolutely right, Like I was sitting there going,
<v Speaker 2>why does this feel like something I would watch on
<v Speaker 2>TV as opposed to a great movie by a great
<v Speaker 2>director of one of the most famous stories of all time.
<v Speaker 2>And then I watched Rumblefish. And with Rumblefish, I was
<v Speaker 2>still like I wasn't. I did not have the same
<v Speaker 2>feeling at all. But it's like you said, it's opposite
<v Speaker 2>sides of the same coin. Had you live tails? You right?
<v Speaker 2>I mean, we've got death in both of them, but
<v Speaker 2>one is inspirational and the other one is right. And
<v Speaker 2>so I don't know that I actually liked Rumblefish better,
<v Speaker 2>but I want to go watch it again. Yeah. I'm
<v Speaker 2>not a big I mean, I like more artistic films
<v Speaker 2>than a lot of people, but this was a very
<v Speaker 2>art film, kind of art film. I'm not big into
<v Speaker 2>the existentialist feel, okay, but what was going on made
<v Speaker 2>me think so much and made me go, what does
<v Speaker 2>this mean? What are they talking about? What's going on
<v Speaker 2>that I want to go back and watch it again?
<v Speaker 2>The Outsiders? Yeah, okay, I'll watch it with somebody again.
<v Speaker 2>I'll watch it with a kid again, because it's a
<v Speaker 2>kid movie.
<v Speaker 1>It is a kid movie.
<v Speaker 2>It's a kid movie. And so when I was watching
<v Speaker 2>it with Caleb and we get to the scene where
<v Speaker 2>pony Boy is crying and is upset and devastated at things,
<v Speaker 2>he was like, who is that actor? And I was like, oh,
<v Speaker 2>let's see Thomas Howell. He's like, well, what happened to him?
<v Speaker 2>He's fantastic, And I was like, well, of all of them,
<v Speaker 2>he's the guy who probably did the least well honestly.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.
<v Speaker 2>So all that to say, if I'm going to watch
<v Speaker 2>a movie again, it's gonna be Rumblefish unless it's with
<v Speaker 2>my kids, and then it's going to be the Outsiders.
<v Speaker 2>I think as far as quality of acting goes, I
<v Speaker 2>pick the Outsiders. Okay, I think as far as interesting
<v Speaker 2>topic and ideas and themes and ideas of shots and
<v Speaker 2>film as a whole, I go Rumblefish.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.
<v Speaker 2>So this is really a hard choice for me. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>but you're right in the end, I'm picking Rumblefish over
<v Speaker 2>the Outsiders. If I got to walk out the door
<v Speaker 2>and grab a DVD just for myself, sure, just for myself.
<v Speaker 1>Well, and like you said, you didn't see it way
<v Speaker 1>back when they're two different styles and I love both.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I will tell you this Listening to Francis Ford
<v Speaker 2>Coppola talk about his love for Rumblefish is also something
<v Speaker 2>incredibly great to listen to. It is, it really is.
<v Speaker 2>He's got this really fantastic moment where he's talking about
<v Speaker 2>the great directors of the past, and he was talking
<v Speaker 2>about how when he was young he felt like he
<v Speaker 2>could do anything in any kind of movie, and that's
<v Speaker 2>why he did a musical right before he did these
<v Speaker 2>two movies. And he's like, and you know, theater is
<v Speaker 2>not that old. Like in the rules that we have
<v Speaker 2>in movies these days are all set by guys who
<v Speaker 2>had never done it before. It was just happening. I mean,
<v Speaker 2>it hasn't been around that long. So you should do
<v Speaker 2>artistic things, and you should experiment, and you should make
<v Speaker 2>your own rules. And then he's like, of course, that's
<v Speaker 2>what I did with this movie, and it was an
<v Speaker 2>absolute failure. It taut me to declare bankruptcy. So forget
<v Speaker 2>everything that I've said, forget that. Just pretend like you
<v Speaker 2>just you just skip this part the next time you
<v Speaker 2>watch the commentary.
<v Speaker 1>Well, we hope you guys enjoyed this episode of The
<v Speaker 1>Outsiders Versus Rumblefish number one. We hope you'll go watch
<v Speaker 1>Rumblefish and sort of rediscover that classic. Well, d I'm
<v Speaker 1>excited about what we've got coming next week tell me so.
<v Speaker 1>Hopefully we'll have maybe a bonus episode or maybe let's
<v Speaker 1>sprinkling with Danny Boy O'Connor. That's gonna be really cool.
<v Speaker 1>But the music matchup that we've got coming down the
<v Speaker 1>pipe is from nineteen eighty three. We have Lionel Ritchie
<v Speaker 1>and his album Can't Slow Down.
<v Speaker 3>That's a nuclear that's a big hitter.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, twenty million copies against Billy Joels An Innocent Man,
<v Speaker 1>also from eighty three.
<v Speaker 2>That's too hard.
<v Speaker 1>Those are some incredible albums from nineteen eighty three. Ball
<v Speaker 1>turning forty years old.
<v Speaker 2>I feel like you chose this and threw this at me,
<v Speaker 2>and now I've got to pick between these two monsters.
<v Speaker 1>Hey, it's gonna be a lo of fun to dive in.
<v Speaker 2>Well, at least be fun to listen to music. I'm excited.
<v Speaker 1>Let's do it. Stay gold, everybody,