Cheetah Girls with Korama Danquah

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Speaker 1: On the Dog Cast, the questions asked if movies have women and um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in best start changing it with the Bell Cast. And there's a time when we all choose Caitlyn join in. Come on, my dog just fell in a hole. Oh um. Yeah. The next lyrics are this, you're fired from the Cheetah Girls. We're supposed to be magic and we just know the words to this song. Welcome to the beck Dol Cast. Yes, welcome, Welcome. I do really like the girl Power song. I know, listening to it on purpose. You texted me about it two times. Really? Yeah, every song I remember the one. Every song in this movie is fun. It's fun. This is a this is a fun and complicated movie text expanded universe. It's the Cheetah Girls episode of the Bechtel Cast. Uh. For let's get some formalities out of the way. My name is Jamie Loftus, my name is Caitlin Dronte, and this is our movie podcast where we take a look at your favorite movies using an intersectional feminist lens. Uh. Cheetah Girls, I believe is one of our most popular requests in the d com canon, I would say specifically in the dcom canon. Yes, yes, I mean if we're going sub sections. Um. So, this episode has been a long time coming. I am so thrilled. I feel that we have really found the perfect guest here. This This episode was originally going to be on our Matreon because we were like, let's just do every Raven simone d coom, which turns out to be a more ambitious project than you would imagine it would be. That's gonna have to be its own whole podcast exactly. Yeah, I'm just I'm just so thrilled. That's final the Cheetah Girls day on the pod. It's been a long time coming. I'm completely ambivalent. And but let's introduce that wonderful guest. Um. She is a writer, actor, and co host of the podcast Popcorn Book Club. It's Karama Dunqua. Hello, Hi for having me. I'm so excited to talk about the Cheetah Girls. I'm excited. Karama and I had a two am discussion about Cheetah Girls. It was intense. It was intense. It was the like the best late night d M result of all time. Yes and no, unsolicited Dick pics, So it just couldn't have ended any better. It's possible, It's possible it happens. Um. Yeah, I'm really excited to talk about the Cheetah Girls expanded universe with you today. So uh, let's just get into it, Karama. What is your experience with the Cheetah Girls property in general, books, movie, whatever it is. I'm so excited. Did thank you for asking me that question, because a lot of people don't even know that The Cheetah Girls was a book series originally started in the late nineteen nineties. I think the first one came out in and they're over ten bucks and they were written by Debora Gregory. Her name is spelled like Debora, but it's pronounced Debora, which is a thing that I know because I and I was telling Caitlin this. You don't know this, Jamie, but I met her in two thousand three, right before my twelfth birthday. I've just aged myself forever, and she gave me this signed headshot where she is in Cheetah print. I just found this yesterday and all of my stuff, so, um, I can definitely scan this and get it for you if you want to make this a cool thing for the Matreon. I don't know. God, I put it on our Instagram. No big deal. Her her Twitter handle is Mama Cheetahs. She's like she's on brand. She love it. Yeah. So my experience with the Cheetah Girls property was being an avid reader of the book series. It was like my whole life. I used to quote unquote work in a bookstore when I was ten, which is illegal because I was ten, but I used to like hang out there and they would like watch me, and I would put prices on like eight books and say I did work, and then they would pay me in free Cheetah Girls books, which was like a cool thing. Other books as well, but the Cheetah Girls books were what I was really angling for sure. That's amazing. Yeah. Um. And then the movie came out in the early two thousand's, two thousand three, I believe, and I was psyched and stoked, and then I found the movie a little bit disappointing when I watched it. As a fan of the books. It was my very first experience with whitewashing. So that was super cool because that's the big, big difference for me in the books in the movies is that Diffrenda is not a biracial woman of color as she was in the books, and we'll get more into that later, and how my feelings on that had sort of per rested, especially because I do believe the girl who plays her as a white passing or white presenting Latin X person um, which I think is very interesting and didn't know until I was an adult, and race is complicated. Yikes, what do you mean? But yeah, I love the box, love the movies, and I'm so excited to be here and talk about them. We're so excited to have you here. Well, I'll go next because as with most as with all d coms, until we cover them on the show, until we cover them on the show, I have never seen them because I grew up without cable. I did not have access to the Disney Channel much as a child, and didn't know that d coms existed until like three years ago or something, or that they were called d coms. So I just hadn't seen this until a couple of days ago. But I will say that now that we've been covering a few since it's d Come months on It's dcom July on our Matreon, I'm getting more into them, and I actually watched a d com not for homework. I saw a teen Beach movie and I loved it. It's my new favorite movie. Is that a newer one? Yeah? I think it's from twenty it's within the past ten outside of my era of expertise, Like you got Alley Cats Strike, I'm there. Um so yeah, I'm I'm broadening my horizons, is what I'm saying. Um, Jamie, what's your relationship with Cheetah Girls? Pretty similar to Karama. I think I started reading the books maybe like in the year leading up to the movie. It was definitely before the movie, because I remember my main memory with watching the movie for the first time was that I was the only girl at the sleepover it that had been curated to watch this movie at that had read some of the books, and I was really set that Angie wasn't there. That was what mainly jumped out to me, which we'll talk about. But basically, there were five cheetah girls in the books. Aquanite has a twin named Angie, and I she was my favorite character because she was really quiet and she was like her I don't know, she was like the quiet cheetah girl and so I like felt connected to her because I was really shy, and then she was so quiet that they just wrote her out of the movie. So I remember being really disappointed in that, and my friends finding my disappointment annoying because I didn't know what I was talking about. And then I enjoyed the movie. I I definitely loved the songs. I watched the second one. I was too old for the third one, and I hear it's really bad. Also, Raven's not in the third one, So what's the point true, what's the point not no shade to like Adrian Baylon or Keeley Williams or girl whose name I can't remember, Sabrina something. I think, yeah, but yeah, like Raven was. She was the Cheetah Girls. She was girl power, she was growl Power, she was cheat Delicious, and I think taking her out really takes some wind out of the sales. I will also say this viewing because I haven't seen this movie in at least ten years of like revisiting it. Even though the lyrics to the songs, I was like, oh my god, like they were just apparently imprinted on my They're just in you Memento style, because I just knew them all, but I will say I was more on Galleria's side at certain parts of The Cheetah Girls this time than I ever was as a child. Like she is. She has her flaws, certainly quite second act. There is a lot going on with her, but in the end, she's the only Cheetah Girl with any focus. Anyways, I agreed with Galeria more than I was expecting to this time, and you know, people change. I agreed with Dorothea a lot more than I thought I would. Galeria's mom, I'm like, yeah, you know what, she's making sense. That's the thing about becoming an adult, you start agreeing with a lot of like movies, parent parent characters. Yeah, you're like, you are too young for this, what's wrong with you? I got annoyed with the dad of Like, why are the dad always get to be the good guy in this situation? It's not fair. There's a whole there's so much to discuss. But I love the Cheetah Girls. They have a special place in my heart. But it's a complicated adaptation job. Yeah, well, should we get into the recap and go from there? Yeah, I'm down all right. The film opens on a performance by the Cheetah Girls. They are a girl group comprised of Gallerio, that's Raven Simone, Chanelle played by Adrian Bylan And then I think her she go now goes by Houghton is her last name? If I'm not mistaken? Um Aqua is is her name? Keiley? I have a lot to say about her, there is I I recently caught up because there was like Cheetah Girls drama while we're were in quarantine, and I was clinging to it because I needed things to cling to. Adrian and Kiley, I guess they did not get along. And I don't know how much was related to Cheetah Girls and how much was related to three l W which was the group that they were in together with that other girl with that other girl who Why wasn't she and the Cheetah Girls anyway? Shrug um. And then the fourth member of the Cheetah Girls in the movie adaptation is Dorinda Um played by Sabrina Brian. Yes. Yes, They discuss whether or not they're ready for tomorrow's talent show audition at their Magnet High School in New York City. Ever heard of it? And they are hoping to be the first freshman to win because winning the talent show could open up some doors for them in their career. We learned that Chanelle and Galeria started the group just the two of them, and they added the two other girls later on. This is relatively faithful to book canon, minus okay a fifth member. Correct. We see Galeria at home and we meet her parents and her dog, Toto, whose presence in the story is going to pay off way more than you would ever imagine. Toto falls in a hole and that's the climax of the movie. Love and Toto's in the hall and the fireman is like sing faster, faster, faster, it's working. That guy really earned his SAG card that day. That was beautiful. Oh good grief. So we meet Toto the dog. Then we see Chanelle at home and we meet her mother and established their relationship. Both of these girls come from pretty upper class backgrounds um and then we meet also faithful to the book, I will say, okay, good to know. Meanwhile, we see Dorinda. She is mopping the floors and a community center. We will come to learn that she is a foster child and comes from a lower socioeconomic background. And then we don't learn anything about Awkwa's home life at all, that she has a twin, that she has a twin sister at home in the basement. In this particular iteration of The Cheetah Girls, Cannon, what if it's like in um, what's the Christopher Nolan movie? Um, The Prestige, where like the their secret twins and you don't know that they're twins and they just keep swapping out. Really in the Christopher Nolan zone today? Oh sure, I'll bring up inception by the end. Sure. Oh you guys didn't know that Christopher Nolan actually wrote and directed this film The Cheetah Girls. They're experimenting with time. Um. Okay. So then we see the Cheetah Girls at school and we meet these two boys who are also competing in the talent show. I think their names are Derek and Mackerel. That sounds right. One is the boy from Ali Cat's Strike, which I remember being thrilled by. And that's basically all you need to know about him. I will say, I'm disappointed that Eric von Detton was not in this film because Eric von Detton was the major export of Disney Channel in the late nineties early two thousand's. We were trying to make Eric von Deetton happen so much, wasn't He wasn't his final stand in the Princess Diaries, and then it was just like, it's not going to happen for him. That was his last stand. I think that sounds like the right era for him to have faded away. I hope he's doing okay. Hi, Eric, he's a listener, he's our fan. Who isn't he's a matron um and it's Derek has a crush on Galeria. Then they do their audition and we meet the teacher who is running the talent show. Her name is Drinka, played by Sandra Caldwell, and she tells them that they did a great job, and so does Jackal Johnson, who is a big time music producer, and he's got the outfit to prove it. He's wearing chains. He looks so early two thousands, like vague, sleazy, but also like hot, like coated as hot. But looking at him, I'm just like, there's no way anyone ever thought this was attractive. It's baffling that he's coated as hot, because it just who was like, oh my god, Jackal Johnson. I wrote in my notes Jackal Johnson wishes he was Matthew Lillard. He does that is it that hits the nail on the head. Definitely big Matthew vibes. When Matthew Lillard is sick, they call this guy to show up. That's Will, I will say, just as an aside. And I don't know how many of these are canon like to the book, but they casually drop a lot of artist names in this movie and they all maybe laugh. There was Monique Twig, which was a fun one. I think I caught Michelle Breeze. There was like Electric Breeze or Electric Breeze. I was like, is this Michelle Branch. So here's a really funny fact about the books. I recently just because I hadn't I hadn't read them in a while, and like, I can't find my copies. They are lost to the ages. I got them from my local like digital library. They have all of them with the in the l A Public library system. And uh, there is a group that's mentioned early on in the books called Karma's Children, and I'm like, this is Destiny's child. And Galleria is talking about how everybody says she looks like the lead singer of Karma's Children Backstaba and they all have like sort of vaguely sin based name, so it's like greed and I'm just like, who which one of these is supposed to be? Kelly Rowland? That's all I want to know. And there are four of them, which makes sense for the time that the book comes out, because there were four people in Destiny's Child at the time. Maybe it was it was predictive because Destiny's Child eventually just mysteriously did away with one of their members without disappeared. Farah. They went through a whole thing. There's a conspiracy here. Another thing, another thing about the book that I went to, I like, went to whatever the Amazon preview because I'm like, oh, I hope it's there. I vaguely remembered, like the Cheetah Girls packed. That was the Cheetahs Credo, which I here and can read from. Oh, I did my homework. The Jetah Girls create o. This is from the first book. I think it's at the beginning of all the books. But this is from wishing on a star Uh to earn my spots and rightful place in the world. I solemnly swear to honor and uphold the Cheetah girls. Cheetah girls don't litter, they glitter. I will help my family, friends, and other cheetah girls whenever they need my love, support, or a really big hug. All cheetah girls are created equal, but we are not alike. We come in different sizes, shapes, and colors, and hail from different cultures. I will not judge others by the color of their spots, but by their character. A true cheetah girl doesn't spend more time doing her hair than her homework. Hair extensions maybe career extensions, but talent and skills will pay my bills. True Cheetah girls can achieve without a weave or a wiggle, jiggle or a giggle. I promised to rely mostly on my brains, heart and courage to reach my cheeta a delicious potential. It's about halfway through. It talks about how grown ups are not always right, but they are bigger, older, and louder. I will treat my teachers, parents, and people of authority with respect and expect them to do the same, which I really appreciate. Yeah, like the true cheetah girls don't run with wolves or hang with hyenas. True cheetahs picked much better friends. It's just I don't know. That really stuck with me as a kid, and I was like, oh, I wonder and it's it's right there. There's no bullet points, there's just cheetah pap prints. It is aesthetically on brand. It is amazingly progressive, also just for the time, Like environmentalism, right off the bat, they don't literally they glitter on the number one. Glitter is somewhat of a contentious thing in the environmentalism community. There are some environmental like biodegradable glitters, and you should definitely look into those if you're a glitter person, because we don't want to hurt the environment. That's not cheatalicious, remember not, certainly not. It is. Deborah is an inspiration um. And then there was also the glossaries in the back of the book, which would just if you didn't know, yeah, it was so good. It was like if you didn't know what a cheetah girl was saying, you could look it up and be like, oh, she was saying that's cool. Yeah. Duckets. That was the one that I recall learning at the time, and I was like, oh, okay, buckets of duckets means like a lot of money. I am cool now, I was. I was excited looking back and thinking, oh, okay, yeah, this is a lot. It is pretty, if not exactly directly faithful, it's got the spirit of the thing, you know. I missed the glassary and rereading that Cheetah Girls credo going into rewatching the movie made me a little disappointed in myself at how upset I was about Dorinda's recasting. I was like, you know what, she is still a Cheetah Girl, and we don't judge other people by the color of their spots, by their character, and I felt that Dorinda's character still lived on in Sabrina Brian and I would just like to formally apologize to Sabrina Brian for all of the vitriol that my twelve year old self had at your like if anything bad happened to you in two thousand three, I'm so sorry for that energy. She's okay, she came in like fourth place and dancing with the stars, she's doing great. That is amazing. That is more places than I got in Dancing with the Nobody's the thing that I do in my bedroom by myself. Well, I think there's a lot that we could all learn from the Cheetah Girls credo and I kind of want to print it up and hang in my house. I saved it as a PDF on my computer. I'm like, this is the thing that I need to remember, Like there's a lot of good stuff in here that I can still benefit from as I move into my thirties. Um, okay. So Jackal Jackal Johnson was at the audition and he's this big time music producer and he wants to work with them. But Galeria's mom is there, Dorothea, and she thinks the girls are too young because they're only in ninth grade their freshman right, But after a lot of pleading with Galerie's mom, she changes her mind and the Cheetah Girls are allowed to contact Jackal Johnson, so they set up a meeting with him at deaf Duck Records. Hilarious sort of that some of the that was like one of those moments where I'm like, oh, fun art department assignment to be like, okay, we need a logo for deaf Duck Records. Like that's fun homework. And some might argue, and by that I mean me that they did not try very hard or do a good job there. Budget was fourteen dollars, Caitlin, what are they gonna do? It was a valiant effort. We understood that there was a duck involved, so for that I will commend them. It did not look like another creature. It looked like a duck's. The semiotics was like working. We did get into our first song also in that audition with Jackal Johnson, Cinder and which one that that's Cinderella. That was my favorite. That was my favorite back in the day of Cinderella was like my top cheaty girl's song. And it's still in the shower regularly and like they're they're very specific dances and like, I just loved it. I liked it that d coms were pretty good about. If there was dancing, it was usually dancing that like a kid could basically learn, which I think is a nice touch. Yes, it was like Darren's Dance Grooves light right right, you know, do you guys remember Darren's Dance Grooves. Oh, Darren's Dance Grooves were like, That's all I wanted as a child was a Darren's Dance Grooves DVD. So there was this guy named Darren. He had a last name doesn't matter what it is um And he used to choreograph for like in Sync and Britney Spears, and he had this DVD that he would like pedal on television where you could learn these dances that he taught Britney Spears and in Sync alone in your home, which is the best way for p well like me to dance. Darren Henson, Yeah, I remember my friend had the DVD and it was like it really made her mom's condo a hot spot to visit because you had Darren's dance grooves. No, you all have those friends when you were little, and there were things that you couldn't have or weren't allowed to have that you definitely used for their access. Like I had a cable friend. I didn't have cable in my house, so I'd be like, Hey, how's it going, Let's hang out. Oh my gosh, I want to come over to your house and see you and just watch Disney Channel. Yeah. I had a Mary Kayton Ashley VHS friend. There's like she just has to remember this. She had them all. She had them all and if you wanted to see one, you had to do it. And she was of brother for sale. Yes, but yeah, so Cinderella was the first performance, and Jackal s's that and that's where he's like, I need these children in my def duck factory. So so they go to the meeting and um, Jackal, he seems pretty sleazy, and Galeria's mom is trying to like I think the movie would have you think she's trying to interfere, but she's really just looking out for She's making sure this weirdo isn't like abducting the Cheetah girls. Right. Also, Galeria had stepped in dog poop. The meeting is kind of it's relatable. There's a lot of stuff going on. But they do schedule a demo recording on that Saturday, which conflicts with their school talent show, which the other girls didn't want to miss. But Galeria is like, screw that, we will be here for the demo recording. Because Galeria had been she's been turning into a bit of a diva. We will say she was mean to Aqua about the hot sauce she condescends to drink. Other teacher, She's mean to Dorinda about her clothes of this and stuff like that. Um, and her like abilities as a singer. She was really she was doubling and tripling down on dere Inda. Yeah, truly, just like not she was rude. She was just rude. There's no other way around it. There. Yeah, but she was being an asshole, really was. Yeah. And it was like I forgot how intense that insult is because it's like Dorinda tries to walk away three times, and then Galleria just continues to double down. She's like, well, you can't sing. Also, you're poor. Also I hate how you look. And then everyone's just like, oh my god, Direnda run. She's like it's not optional. It's just like okay, wow, just stop over here, right um. And then it's shortly after this that Chanelle learns that Dorinda is in foster care. So the girls go in further demo recording, but it turns out that Jackal Johnson has a different vision for the Cheetah Girls that includes the creepiest masks I've ever seen in my life, horrifying. They're like, okay, what if you were daft punk boat scarier. It's very I think it was the inspiration for the ad campaign for that movie You're Next. Do you all remember that with all those animal faces? Yeah, that was somebody watched The Cheetah Girls and was like, haunting, this is haunting. I must make a film. I remember having like just I don't know that like shot of Dorinda holding the pandamask and then tilting her head to the side. I just remember that really sticking with me in a negative way. It's terrific. Yeah, same exact same. I was like, oh, it's going to happen. When I was rewatching this is the moment. Was it in the trailer or something? Why did that? Okay? Okay? Because I was like that shot really hit for me. So I had like a like a weird little psychological gut punch. Gallery is like this is some bullshit. We're not going to wear your masks, We're not gonna lip sync, like, come on, Cheetah Girls, let's go. But the others are like, well, maybe we're okay with this. We were fine, we'll rebrand as Global, get done whatever. Geez were very in that year, which is another moment where I I like the other three Cheetah Girls, I'm like what They're like, what we should do it? We should sell out? What are you doing? And then I was like, wait a second, I'm not on their side. I guess I was of two minds because I'm like, on the one hand, I feel like they should talk about it as a group and it shouldn't be them, I think, to use Dorinda's term, rubber stamping Galleria's decision. But on the other hand, and like, you all are actually a creative group. You're not just like lip syncing too pop songs on the radio. Their four team, they're writing and producing their own stuff. God knows how. They are very wealthy, though it did established the at least half of them, three quarters of them are rich because because Aqua, like got sent from Houston, and she can afford to take taxis everywhere. She's afraid of the subway because she hates the subway. Yeah, so she's wealthy enough to afford to live in New York City apparently by herself, and then um take taxis everywhere. She does have to feed her twin every once in a while. I do remember, though in the books that maybe her dad was gone a lot on business, and that might have been one of the reasons that we didn't see a lot of her home life, because it was the two of them, Angie and Aqua that we're often together and they had each other and we're very tight knit. Which now without Angie there, it's just Aqua being alone with her hot sauce, and I know it makes me kind of sad. Yeah, so I guess that she I like went back into the there is a wiki for but like that. Yeah, like Angie and Aqua lived with just their dad. I'm not sure where how do they mom is dead? Okay, maybe so so their mom has died. They live with their dad, but their dad travels a lot, so they're on their own quite a bit on the Upper West Side. But there was like, I don't know, Yeah, this ended up. I was expecting to come to this episode being like this, this adaptation is wholly unfaithful. Um, but not I mean down to like the like in the books. I didn't remember this, but I guess Akwa carried around hot sauce in the books as well, and like there was there was there was a fair amount carried over. I was like, okay, alright, alright. It made me feel like very cool because my mom would carry hot sauce in her bag and I was like, oh, my mom's like this cool character from this book. I like, maybe my mom is not that uncool. After all, she's not. My mom is very cool. I just was whack as a kid and I was just like everything my mom is yah um okay. So the other Cheetah Girls, they're like, we're cool with doing this Global Get Down rebranding thing, and Gallery is not. So the Cheetah Girls kind of more or less breakup or like Galerie breaks away from them. And then one day, Galeria is out walking her dog Toto, and she spots a poster for Global Get Down, so she thinks that like the other Cheetah Girls had like gone ahead with this deal, and she feels very betrayed. But then Toto gets loose and he falls in a hole in the sidewalk and chaos erupts around the city of New York. Cops show up, fire people show up, the press shows up, there's an enormous traffic jam. It's it's everything is chaos in New York City. But then Chanel, Aqua and Dorinda show up to help Toto. Also, everyone at school shows up because they were in the middle of the talent show. But this emergency was so severe that they had to cut power around the city, so the power went out during the talent show to wrap that gallery is rush that I was. I watched it three times because you're just like, what is going on here? It's just That's another one where it was a little bit imprinted inside of me because when he was like come on, come on, I was like doing the shout back. He was like come on, and I was like, yeah, come on, and then I was like stop it, don't encourage him, and then he just ends it so like it's just such a like generic. It's just so generic where he's like and my DJs got into play his beat and then it just like cuts away and you're like, oh my god. I was watching that and I was like, thank God, the power is gonna get And I will say earlier, when they were about to do the audition Mackerel and who Derek, Yes, Mackerel is the name that truly stuck with me in that duo, the two of them were making a big deal about having to switch their audition time slots because Mackerel had to go to the orthodontes and they had real instruments that they needed to set up, and I was just like, where are these alleged real instruments in this moment? But then at the end. He's a good Derek is a guitar god, but it just doesn't come into play in his actual Not only is he a white rapper, he's also a legendary rock guitarist and my d is going to play his beat. I was just like, I can't get over it. They're also in that scene where they're trying to switch the times. There was just another funny character you've never seen name where Chanelle. I don't know why. She's kind of like, oh, let's switch to the time, but she's like, no, we should switch the time. Mrs Almanac needs to look at my history paper. I was like, Mrs Almanac, I literally on my notes, I just have written really big Mrs Almanac. I was dying. I was like, that is just bold to be like, oh, history teacher character or history teacher character, Mrs Almanac perfect. I love it. I hope that's in the books. I have no idea, but whoever don't remember that, but I hope it is too. It's great whoever wrote that line, or even if Adrian Baylan improvised it, it's genius. Oh good grieve. Okay, So Total is still in the hole and they can't get Toto out of the hole. So the Cheetah Girls starts singing to him, and because it's been set up that he responds well to their music, it works. He's there able to coax him out of the hole and the day is saved. But the Cheetah Girls are still broken up question Mark and Galeria realizes that their friendship is the most important thing. So in a very what I felt was an extremely Titanic moment. Remember in Titanic, when the musicians are playing as the ship is sinking and then they say they're goodbyes are like, let's go the ship is about to sink. Let's just go off and split apart. But then one of them stays behind and keeps playing, and then the others are like, well, what else are we going to do? So then they come back and join him. And this happens in Cheetah Girls as well, where Galeria starts singing and then the other Cheetah Girls join in. Because their Cheetah Girls Cheetah sisters and inspiring. They all I love. Even when I was a kid, I'm like, wow, they really were all wearing the matching outfit. That was the wild part to me, because I was like, oh, right, there's a talent show. But then I remember they were not going to perform instead talent show, So why are they matching? Is it just the power of sisterhood? I they could feel it. I love, I love, I love that moment. I did appreciate the detail of Dorinda's matching outfit, looking just a little shittier than everybody else, just a little bit, because presumably she had to make that herself, like I guess yeah, or like or like thrift shop at like she's Macklemore, Oh my god, Macklemore Mackerel. The connections, there's everything is It's all there, Okay. So then they get back together. They're singing in the street with the crowd that has is still there on the streets for some reason, and the other girls are like, no, we didn't take that global get down deal. We're the Cheetah Sisters, and we don't break up. And they win the talent show. I think is it based on the performance they did on the street that everyone saw. Yeah, because in this world the news has filmed like a music video, and so they see the music video news and then jackals like, I can't believe I missed out. So they win and then everyone's happy, and that's how the movie ends. So let's take a quick break and then we'll come right back to discuss and we're back. Oh boy, where to start with the Cheetah Girls. There really is so much. I mean, we've already been talking about the books quite a bit. Um. I my my first instinct because I don't know. I honestly I was expecting to like this movie far less on the rewatch. There's definitely some stuff that I still don't like. There's whitewashing elements of the movie that are inexcusable. They cut a character for for every reason I've been able to find. Was pretty like dismissive and not realistic sounding because they were like, we couldn't find black Twins, which I'm like, I don't believe that. I so didn't believe that when I read it, because I read the same thing and I'm like, okay, but it's not like anybody else was a big draw and like Sabrina Brian was not a name, you know what I mean, Like Raven was the name. Adrian Baylon was a name because she was in three l W And I feel like it was because they didn't want to spend the money to make like a parent trap situation to Kilee. Yeah, they were like maybe not. And they had the three l W people, so they were like, well, we got this really great deal on these two real singers, so let's bring them in. I felt for the third l W. I was like, why why are we not bringing the third l W into the mix here? But I looked, I looked her. I need to find what her name is. She's like a thriving TV actor and she it turns out that she didn't need did Cheetah Girls amazing? That makes me really happy because I know they had a whole dramatic three l W fight that involved like KFC at one point, like oh like somebody three OKAYFC at somebody else there was. It was very dramatic and embarrassing for everyone three LW. It seems like there was a lot of I don't know why there's been so much three l W Cheetah Girls drama resurfacing since Quarantine, but it's a part of the conspiracy. But so Noturi, Notton is the third LW. She's doing fine. She's in a stars drama show right now. It turns out she's actually doing better than the other LW's. I also learned that Alicia Keys was asked to be a three l W and she was like, I am busy no. And the final thing that I learned from just behind the scenes, I guess it's kind of fun to know is that all like the Cheetah girls didn't get along very well behind the scenes. But I guess it mostly had to do with the fact that Kiely and Adrian already didn't like each other from three LW. So then it's a picking side situation exactly. So it's a polarizing effect within the group. And then, for god knows why, Raven Simone took it upon herself to go live with Keeley Williams a few months ago and just talk about all of it. So I guess if you're interested in that, you can watch it. But it was just like the messiest I was watching it live. Um, it was just the messiest Instagram live broadcast I had seen in a while, where Raven was like, Yeah, we're gonna go live and we're gonna talk about fifteen year old teenage drama and people are gonna love it. And she was right, she was correct, Let's try to do uh so so um, I was the first thing I wanted to make sure was that was that the author, Deborah Gregory, was involved in the production of the movie. And it seems like she was involved in all three movies. She was a co producer in the first two and an executive producer on the Bad One. Question Mark, I don't know what happens in that one, so so I I was first off very relieved and and knowing that it kind of like contextualizes a lot of the book makes it in so that I was pleasantly surprised at and I'm glad that just in general, Dabora Gregory is getting paid. She's like a really interesting career where she's like dabbled in comedy and she's been like a magazine writer and she's written books and like she's just so she's not a former model. Also, I don't know, she definitely studied fashion, and it seems like her life story kind of mirrors Dorinda's in more so in the book. But what I'm seeing on the scholarly journal wikipedia um is that she was put into foster care when she was three years old, and as she was growing up, she started designing her own clothes and fantasized about a singing career. So it seems like her life mirror Diranda's character quite a bit. I don't think I knew about the foster care Yeah, I didn't either. Um, I read that because of her background in the background she wrote for the character of Dorinda, she identifies most with Dorinda of all the characters that she wrote. So it's interesting that that's the character who ends up being whitewashed in the movies because Debora Gregory is a black woman, So to have the character that she most identified with be the like white presenting character, it's frustrating. It's frustra because I believe that again consulting this scholarly journal that, Um, Debora Gregory is biracial, and so is Dorinda in the books. Um, and so it seems like, yeah, Dorinda is her her like Avatar. Sorry, I watched Avatar recently, the Last Airbender or Horrible One the so you know, it's like Derenda's her Avatar. She gets in the machine, she comes out, she's Direnda. But in the movie. So it's I feel like it's a real like twist of the knife to change this character so significantly and that's not Sabrina Brian's fault, but I just it's such as it brings us such a Disney decision, I felt like not at all in line with the principles set forth in the Disney film The Color of Friendship. I will just say, yes, absolutely, that's another one that we another popular request of ours in the dcom sphere understandable. I think it's the only dcon that has the N word. Think. Um, I did read that, yeah, brave there. Yeah, So, I mean it's I was especially disappoint because I didn't know these details about Debora Gregory's life either. Um, but the fact that Dorinda is her and that that is the character that the movie elects to whitewash is super disappointing and also just I mean, I'm curious on everyone's thoughts around just that scene between Chanelle and Dorinda, where Chanelle has taken her mother's credit cards, something I've remember very clearly from the books. That was a good one because in every Cheata Girl's book, for those of you who haven't read it, it's like that they're like, I think that it's like narrated by a specific character, and so you're like, yeah, so the first one is narrated by Galeria, the second one is narrated by Chanelle. I think, the third one is narrated by Dorinda, and the fourth one is narrated by Aqua. Angie does not narrate any books because she's quiet, because she's too quiet, she's too quiet to write something down. I justice for Angie. Those books are so even just rereading. I reread the first chapter that was available on Amazon, and the writing style is just like teen girl tween girl, mainlining of like what you want to read. It's so fun. But that scene with Chanelle and Dorinda where Dorinda like they are are kind of talking about race, but then Dorinda kind of shuts the conversation down where I think that like Chanelle is like, oh, you're you're mixed, you're half black, because she confuses um Dorinda's a foster mother for her biological mother, and then Dorinda supplies by saying, no, like that's not what I'm saying. I'm not black. I don't know if I'm white, I don't know what I am, but I'm a foster child. And then that's kind of like the scene. I just found that to be a very bizarre scene like the way it plays out, it just seems to be like skirting any discussion. I don't know. Yeah, there's also a class element that I think the movie doesn't really know how to handle as well. And then following that scene is when Chanelle goes back home and talks with her mother, who has been dating this French guy named Luke. And there's a huge part of the second movie Okay, because they're in Barcelona his family, So this Luke guys is taking up all of Chanelle's mom's attention and and Chanelle is resentful of this, so she's she confronts her mother and is like, well, you know, I've seen what it's like to not have a mom, and she's referring to the fact that Dorinda is in foster care, and she's like, I know what it's like to not have a mother, and she's like conflating that with like her mother being gone sometimes, and it's like, um, I don't. I mean, maybe that's just a very like freshman year in high school understanding of all of that. But I also submissive of Mrs Bosco, who is Dorinda's foster mother, and she calls her mom that scene, so you're like Dorenda does have a mom, right, Yeah, there's somebody who's there who cares for her. And I think that much of the Direnda's parents not showing up for things, at least my understanding of it, is Drina to harporing a sense of shame for not being wealthy, and I think that's especially hard for her because she lives very adjacent to wealth because Mr Bosco is the super of the of the building that they live in, which is this very like fancy New York City high rise. And that's how she's sort of been able to make people think that she's rich, is because she'll have them drop her off there or like meet up in front and she's like, this is the building I live in, which is not technically a lie, but yeah, I think that the class aspect of it is a big deal, and I think that's one of the reasons that she hides she's a foster kid so much. And it has nothing to do with race or anything, and that's and that's Chanel's immediate thing. She's like, oh, well, we know you had to have a little something in you because you could dance, so of course you're half black, which is its own problematic statement right right right the whole scene, and you're just like, oh no, oh no, oh no. Um yeah it's and it's like though that element is introduced of I don't know, I mean this maybe it's just like this movie not maybe like this movie is just I guess not really making a class statement isn't really their thing, because it's like the Cheetah girls are so like girl power capitalism. As much as I love them like that, they very fall they may very much fall into that early two thousand's like girl power capitalism aesthetic um where they're talking about buckets of duckets all the time and like money is a part of what they are aspiring for. So I feel like it is interesting to have this class aspect. But then it kind of like ends up spluttering in this weird way. I forgot that Mrs Bosco comes at the end to the Talent Show and that she's immediately welcomed into the Cheetah mom like fold, and I thought that was awesome, and like I'd forgotten that that happens. Um, Yeah, it's just it's it's Dorinda's whole character is so just strangely handled in this move. Be for reasons that feel very like sinister Disney. And then on top of that, the storyline they do give her this class storyline is also not really resolved or examined in a conclusive way right because what happens there is that she works at this community center to basically earn credits to be able to take dance classes there, so she's become a really skilled dancer, to the point where this dance instructor who has like a traveling like a touring dance crew, she should have gone on the tour dancing and then offers her a spot, and then she which would have been paid, and she says like, oh wow, it's paid. Great, I need that money. But then she kind of backtracks when she's talking to her rich Cheetah Girls friends and she's like, well, I'm just holding out for you know, Cheetah Girls Cheddar and it's like, I don't understand why you made that choice. You just hurt, you just turned away from all of that, so now there's no there's no anything. Yeah, I U that it was a weird I was like she should have also. Now the Cheetah Girls, as much as I loved their performance, when total got out of a hole. Um, it's not like they're like, okay, and now we're off to do this, like they're just kind of actually not to not to be the well actually person. The prize prize from the Talent Show was studio time, so they do get to record, like in a professional demo like they would have gotten with Jackal Johnson, but they get to do it on their own terms, which I do think is a lovely resolution to that issue where it's like, oh, we all come together, we're sisters, were a big family, and now we get to make our recording studio debut without sleazy want to be Matthew Lillard. Right, Okay, so that I didn't I didn't even think of that. Okay, So that's good. But the movie doesn't make it clear you're at the end, it's all about the friendship they had. It's not about the progression of their career at all. Right, It's in the books, I feel like, are more explicit about like the goal of they want to be a pop group. And then sometimes there's like there was like a whole book about girl. Do you remember the one that was like it was a whole book about like Galleria, Like where's a dog? Caller and then it becomes a really popular accessory and then she's like, I have to market this. That was a whole book. So sometimes stuff like that will happen, but it's career focus. It is very capitalistic, the whole thing. Hashtag girl boss to thet. It's really girl possi. It's great. Yeah, I had thought about the dog Collar one in a long time. That was a whole book. Because there's like sixteen Cheetah Girls books, right, there's a whole of them. I remember the eleventh one. I think it's the eleventh one was the one that stood out to me the most. And just going back to Drenda's care character and how Deborah Gregory sees herself most as Dorinda. That's the one where Dorenda finds out that her mother was white because she had this image in her head of her mother being this beautiful black woman because she knew that she was biracial and she knew that one of her parents was black and one of her parents was white, she just didn't know which, and she had this image in her head at this beautiful black woman that looks kind of like her. And then she finds out that she has a biosister who shares the same mother her. So she goes to meet her biosister, and her biosister is like white and blonde and looks like Scandinavian and that sort of really shatters her world and her view and takes away this mother that looks like her and this powerful black woman that she feels she has as her ancestor. And that made a huge impact on me as like a tween. I was like, Wow, can you imagine your entire personality and not entire personality, but your entire perception of your of yourself being shifted like that? And I feel like that sort of all the stuff that maybe they were trying to get at there. And she's like, I don't know what I am and I don't know who I am, and that's why being a foster kid is so like tough for me. But and this isn't a pre twenty three and me world, obviously, we need to remember that. But I feel like it was just so shallowly handled. It was very surface in that scene, which is which is kind of a bummer too, because it's like, I mean, yeah, I guess that her like raises not really, I mean, she does make that comment to drink like cuts drink off, which is another thing of like, oh, let's explore this insecurity that she has. And then it just kind of doesn't come up again, but where she cuts drink off and she's like, oh, I'm the white girl that can dance, and I'm like, it's like, are you, like, do we know? And and she seems And then especially because they cast I did a little bit of research on Sabrina Brian and she is she's certainly white passing, but her her father is Mexican Spanish and her mother is German and Cherokee, so she is a mixed person herself. So it's like, you hired a white passing mixed person. So if you're going to do like that is very like like you were saying, Crol, that's a very Cheetah girls like storyline to examine. But then they kind of are just like question Mark, question Mark, and it never got to move on to the dog in the Hole? Right, And now what dogs in the Hole? I don't understand why that's the climax of the movie. What does a dog in a hole I have anything to do with anything? Anyway. It's a bummer because I feel like I mean, I don't know, I'm very curious of what what Debora Gregory thought of that decision. I wasn't able to find a quote on it, but you know, it's like, this was her character. And then I feel like generally Dorinda is everyone's least favorite cheatah girl. Um, so that stinks because she has personality I feel like in the film also, and maybe the part of that springs from the fact that in the book she was actually two years younger than everybody, which I thought was interesting that they I mean, I guess it's easier to kind of just have them all be the same age in the movie, but she kind of feels behind in terms of character development, and maybe that's what they were trying to get at, but it just came off as like she's a little white one and all she does is dance. She doesn't sing much and she dances, and that's She's cute for the dancing, right, which is also confusing because she sings at least as much as Aqua does, so it's like, yeah, that seems like they're all singing equal parts. It's weird because like with Dorinda, she is mostly characterized by her shame. She feels around being a foster child. Like that's mainly what we know about her, aside from like she's also she's the one who can like dance better than everyone, so I think like that, And then then we've got Aqua, who just like is barely characterized at all except that we know that she has she takes a trigonometric class and because in the book she wants to be it again just like a nod to the book, but it's so passing that you're if you didn't read the book, you're like, huh, Like she wanted to be a doctor in the books. I remember that super clearly, where it was like she was like, yeah, I'm a musician and like her and Angie were the best singers in the group, but Aqua also had this ambition to be a doctor, and like she just there was just so much more there and it looked horror films. Yes, oh yeah, they liked her and Angie did right, Like that was like there was the thing. There was so much there. And then yeah, I feel like it's kind of like at least they get in references to her character, but we don't see her home life. I wonder if that ever was in the script because it's like the other three chee the girls get their side quest as it were, and um, no side quest for Aqua except that I guess she takes the subway one time, right, and she is the darkest, which I'm also like, is this colorism or is this just bad script pacing? What I was kind of curious as to like if casting I mean, no shade on Kiley will Williams. Again, it's not her fault, but like that, uh, if the casting of Keiley Williams was also colorism because I remember in the books, And then I went back to the covers, the original covers of the Cheetah Girl books that Aqua and Angie were darker than the rest of the group. They were like dark skinned. Um, and then Disney Channel did not really follow through on that. Much like Dorinda, she was I will say, the darkest of the people that were cast in the group, but yeah, she's still Killey Williams is not like super dark skinned and not in the same way that Anti Knoqua were on the covers. It was like very clearly and they used the same models for all of the book covers, so they were like, oh, there's my girl. During the There's My Girl, Galeria, like you had your girls on the cover and they were much darker. I did some deep dive into because I was like, who are the girls and the covers of the Cheetah Girl books. I found out, Um, three of them, I don't know who's who, but three of them were in a girl group named Before Dark. One of them was a ballerina, and one of them was on Broadway in The Lion King. I don't know, but it's just like, it looks like a group. It looks like they like did a casting call for a group of like tween girls from New York. So there's iconic covers too, I like looking. I went back into like a used book website to revisit the covers and like, scratch my nostalgia whatever, brain what and the covers rock. But anyways, yeah, it seems like there's some some fun gery going on there as well. Um, let's take another quick break and then we'll come back for a more discussion. So I was starting to say before the break that I found some of the characterization to be a little weird. Um, and then with Galeria and Chanel getting more screen time, I guess that mostly makes sense because they were like the original founding members members that they would get maybe just a little bit more focused in real estate in the movie, which I think is generally true of the books. And also I'm just like, you know, because Raven, it is kind of a funny coinciding plot point that everyone in the Cheetah Girls is annoyed that Galleria is the center and bigger than everyone else on the poster, because that was just also very true of this movie, where like everyone knew who Raven was and there was maybe some head scratching for the other three if you didn't know three l W, which I did not at all. I didn't learn of the existence of that girl group until I started reading about this movie. That's crazy because they have such a good song yeah with a little list is Yeah, it's their music is so cute because that was when they literally were like twelve or thirteen or something. Yeah, there's a line in there it's like, well, you promise me Kate Spade, but that was last year, baby, in the eighth grade, and I was just like, oh my god. First of all, what young gentleman is promising an eighth grade girl Kate Spade? And why do I have the same taste in handbags as an eighth grade girl. I forgot about that lyric, but yeah, it's like Adrian has maybe she has braces or something, but she has like a little lisp and that it's really it's really cute. But yeah, Raven was also very much the star of this movie, so I wasn't surprised that Galleria got a gigantic storyline as well. It's all about the dollars. But I think that I think this movie would have actually benefited from being a series, sort of allah the brand new Babysitters Club series on Netflix, because like the Babysitters Club movie, I felt was a pale dive into the world of the Babysitters Club, another book series that are super into as a child. Uh, And this new TV show That's Happening is much better and gets into the interior lives of more of the characters. And it's a similar thing where each babysitter had their own books. So it's like Christie's big Idea, Claudia and mean Janine all of that. And I think that the Cheetah Girls probably would have benefited from something similar where we could have seen Aqua and hopefully Angie at home watching horror movies. Wanting to be a doctor, which again in the nineties black girl who's like very clear about wanting to be a doctor. That's actually huge and having that not be like a big where it's just like normal that she's like, yeah, I want to be a doctor. It's like pre Doc mc stuffins too, a show that made me cry the first time I watched it with my little sister. She's like, why are you crying? And it was like she was seeing a doctor and everyone she's fine with it and it's normal, and even the little dictail. We do get with Awkwa's character that she's like a math genius apparently taking a college level Trigg class, Like that's also pretty revolutionary to see, like a young black girl interested in math taking an advanced math class, Like that's not something we very up handedly mentioned. She's like, I have to cabs so I can get to my very fancy class. And another thing that I think this, I mean just putting it in the context of two thousand and three, because we've covered so many movies that are in this like chunk of late nineties into early to mid two thousand's of um even like seeing in detail the home life of a non teen character is huge. I mean it's yeah, you you talked about it a lot, and you bring it on episode where we didn't get to see any of isis is like life at all outside of what Torrance was exploring and what Torrance felt was relevant to her. And yeah, seeing Galeria at home and seeing Chanel at home is still really cool, especially because we get to see Galerias interracial parents and this like intercultural thing where her father is an immigrant and speaks in Italian. He's like, I don't understand that. The slang and bling bling now that is an instabling, which is adorable and very relatable to anybody who has immigrant parents who are like, wait, no, this is not what you said last week. I just everything's always changing, right, And also that it seems like Galeria's mom is the breadwinner of the family and like she's she's uh, I think this is I also like watched the second Cheetah Grass movie just simply because I wanted to. But she's like a fashion designer, like a famous fashion designer, and that's why they have this huge apartment. And I don't remember if we know what Chanelle's mom does I don't really remember. Um, I guess yeah, I was kind of. I I kind of forgot that being the huge element of Chanelle's mom where I think it's cool to have like a single parent representation that like rocks. I was kind of that storyline for me was a little all over the place, and I don't really remember. I remember in the books that she took her mom's credit card and spent a ton of money, and that Chanelle like was pretty well off. But I but then she also like resents her mom for being kind of like openly like I want to date a rich guy and this is what I want. UM and her she kind of like is calling her mom a gold digger, but then also is in this very like kid like way. It's like she doesn't like how her mom lives her life but also directly benefits from it, and so it just kind of ends up being a story element that exists. I didn't really know what to make of that. I liked her mom, but then there are also were times where she was kind of neglecting Chanelle to you know, gong like go hang out with rich guys, and I didn't like that. And then when they when their storyline resolves after that Dorinda scene, and Chanelle comes back and she's like, actually, you're an awesome mom. And I'm like, she's not an awesome mom. She's not a bad mom. She's like she feeds you, but she doesn't do other things that maybe could make her an even better mom, Like she stopped paying attention to Chanelle and she now wanted to tell her, like I hit the high Seat with the Cheetah Girls today, and she's like, I have to go and meet up with Luke by. Yeah, she keeps getting bailed on by her mom and then just kind of forgives her mom for doing that without her mom having to do anything or change her behavior, um, which seems like maybe kind of a lucky break for Chanelle's mom. Yeah. Yeah. Uh So we've talked about the whitewashing of Dorinda's character, and you know, there's lots to be critical about there, but you know the fact that this movie's cast is predominantly women and girls of color, between Galeria and her mom, Chanelle and her mom, Aqua Drinka, and then also like as far as behind the scenes representation, the screenwriter is a black woman named Alison Taylor, The director is a black man named Oz Scott. A number of the producers are black women, so many I loved doing research on the writer of this movie. Alison Taylor was such a pleasure because she has written on so many legendary like millennial children's properties. She wrote the first two Cheeta Girls movies. She wrote on Lizzie McGuire, she wrote on Sister Sister, she wrote on Mary with Children, which I don't care about. She wrote about Clarissa explains it all, and she wrote on doesn't even remember this show A Hundred Deeds for Eddie mcdoud never heard of it, do not. It was about It was a Nickelodeon show. I love it. Okay, so the premise of the show, and I want to go back and rewatch it. It It was about a man that was trapped in a dog's body and the dog and the dog had to do a hundred good deeds and then he could be a man again. And so okay, wait, wait, how does the dog do a good deed like Timmy stuck in a well? Like does he have to go Toto stuck in a hole and he has to get the other dog out of the hole basically, and it was one of those scary movies where, I mean, if you google, it was like one of those scary movies that Tariffy or not movies shows that terrified me where they would manipulate, like the dog was talking like a man. Oh I was like, I have to do a hundred good deeds like he was, and the jaw is scary and the eyes are dead and but that was Logistically is it like a puppet like it was on Sabrina or is it like c G I. It's early c G I. It would have been like early two thousands if you look it up. The dog is really blue eyes and they're digitally manipulating his mouth. Anyways, she wrote on that show, I liked that show even though it scared me, and really quick aside, since I talked about Salem the Cat from Subritain to the Teenage, which Nick Backai, who voices Salem the Cat wrote, Paul Blart, mall cop what, Yeah, that is a true fact. Well, so what is the lesson to be learned from that? Like the Salem the Cat really loves Kevin James, I could we just give Sale of the Cat too much money? And he felt emboldened. I mean it got greenlit and got a got a sequel. So did we embolden him? Or is this who we are as a nation? That's true, Let's not let's not put the blame on Salem. We were asking for it. But yes, so Allison Alison Taylor. I just it turns out I'm a fan of so much of her work. Um, and yes I was. I was also one of the first things I was like, did they give this to a black female screenwriter? And they did? Disney Channel, well, I mean Disney in general, but but the channel by extension that no one ever makes the right decision there, and in this movie they did. It seems like several times over the authors involved. Whitney Houston is a producer that there is a black director in the first movie, although Kenny Ortega comes in on the second movie, which is why the second movie is all dancing, no plot, No shade to Kenny Ortega. I love him, but those are what his movies are like. Um, but on this movie. Yeah. Oz Scott is a director. He directed for Color Girl. For Colored Girls. Also, I didn't have like name recognition for him, but once I looked at his filmography, I was like, oh, I know this guy's worked pretty well, and so it was. It was a good team making this movie. I was happy to see that. Can we talk really quickly about Drinka? Yes, yes, First of all, just drink at the character, a wonderful character. I'm so glad. I don't remember is Drinka in the books? Girl, I don't. I believe Drinka is in the box. I think that she's like a vocal coach or something in the books that like an outside vocal coach and not somebody involved with school if I remember correctly, because the talent show thing is a contrivance for the movie so that they can be in school and have all the stuff to be school related when the thing. I like drink of character a lot in the movie. I like how when Galleria is being an asshole, you know, drinking it doesn't stand for it. She's like, all I have is a school. You kids in my word, and you're like, yeah, drink a fuck Galeria. She's being you know, she's being rude. The stage name drink a champagne, like just beautiful, incredible. When she started what is that anecdote she starts saying on stage when the rat when the power gets pulled she's talking about like the Captain and Tenniel or something. It's also like, this reminds me of the New York City Blackout of nineteen seven or seven, and they're like, Okay, drink up, all right, give us the history. It's the best. Um. But I also I didn't realize, um until I recently saw her speak to it in an interview on Netflix, that the actress, uh, Sandra Caldwell is a very famous transactress. Um. I did not. I did not know that. Um. I mean when I saw the movie when I was a kid. But that was kind of what like brought Cheetah Girls back to because you see her, you're like, oh my god, drink I think that though at the time that the movie was filmed and at that point in time, I don't know that she was out as trans. Correct Yeah, yeah, right, she I believe didn't come out until fairly recently. I want to say, there was a New York Times article about her coming out in so yeah, in the last couple of years. Um, she she came out. Yes, she is one of the actors featured in the documentary Disclosure that I keep referring to, in which she was describing her struggle of being a transactor but not being out and living in constant fear that someone would discover that she is trans, and that might have meant her not being able to continue to get work, that might have meant the end of her career, that might have meant she was a target for violence, like any number of things that trans people have to deal with on a daily basis. Um. So yeah, she she speaks to that in that interview and in the documentary. Will link to it in our episode description to it's like a really incredible interview and um is worth mentioning inside of this episode because it's also just like, I don't know she it's just such a fun character. She's an amazing character actress. And the added context of knowing, you know, the constant anxiety and stress that she had to be under while consistently turning in these amazing character performances. Um, it's like, it's it's incredible, So we will link that. It's frustrating too, because I'm just like, if she hadn't had to worry about this, what could she have accomplished? This weren't a fear that she had an a legitimate danger in her life, what could she have accomplished, because look at what she did with all of that totally, and it's it's just mind boggling that on top of everything else that actors have to worry about, that she had to worry about this added like genuine legitimate in like nineteen I mean, I guess at this point it's two thousand three, but still her career from late or early nineties. Yeah, she was an active, working actor. And just the idea that this is something that was a part of this anxiety was a part of her career trajectory is just very upsetting, absolutely, and then to to come out as an older person and face a whole new wave of scrutiny and anxiety, and I mean, she speaks to it so like it's just it's an incredible devastating interview because the way she talks about it, she's like, well, I just I just had to do what I had to do and it was stressful, and I you know, like it was hell, but this was the path I had to take. And it's such an unfair it's such an unfair path for anyone to have had to worry about I don't know, and it makes me want to watch more of her work as well. She's been in so much um and hopefully we will continue to be as well. But she's wonderful. Drink A rocks. She's such a funny character at The Countain Antinel well, and I love the sort of loving read that she gives Galeria at the end, where she's like, you got a big heart, you just have to worry about that big mouth of your And it's like the sort of adult, non parental guidance that sometimes you need, because nobody listens to their parents from their fourteen and it's nice to have an outside adult who is engaged in the thing that you want to do, be this mentor to you and teach you like it's okay to be opinionated, but you also need to know when to hold back, and you need to be considerate of the people around you. Part of the Cheetah creto, it really is, and you know she does, drink A upholds the Cheetah credo of you know, expecting adults to treat you with respect because even in her frustration, even in her anger with the girls, she does not ever malign them or be like you're banned from my talent shelf forever or anything like that. She's just like, Okay, if you think this is more important than fine, go do that. But this is something that's important to me, and I am still going to treat it as if it's important to me. And you treat what's important to you as what's important to you, right, And then it comes back around and uh, she's the best. She's very classy, and I love how supportive she is of the girls and their musical talent and ambition. I wish that I don't think that she's in the side. I don't they're not really in school. In the second one, I just wish she came back in those movies. Yeah. Second one is like junior summer, summer after junior year trip to bar Someone were like, yeah, really relatable. And the fact that Dorinda had to use gallery as dad's miles was. I like, how that's how they got around it? And like, what about when she gets there, who's paying for her food? I'll tell you what. She starts dating a count in the second one right away, what which I totally forgot. There's like some count that she meets that it's like, I think you're beautiful and I want you to dance the tango with me, and there's a whole tango sequence. I don't I realize I do not remember a lot about the second movie at all. Wow, Well, speaking of the teen romances, can we talk about Eric and the romantic subplot him? And so it's it's not worth going into that much about it, but it's set up that he he's got this musical duo with his friend Mackerel Machel has an orthodontis appointment. Thanks we're introduced to him because they're also trying out for the talent show. So he pops up every so often in the movie to mostly condescend to Galeria to a greater extent than I've ever seen in a movie, where when he's pitching the idea of switching audition times, he calls the Cheetah Girls a little project, which is really rich kind once you hear his music, especially right, you're like mat God, men will go to the mat with their mediocrity in a way that is never not shocking. Right. Um. Then he he hears that they've gotten a meeting with Jackal Johnson and he tries to one up her by talking about another And I don't know if this is a real musician if this is just one of the inventions of the movie, but some famous musician, he's lying about the extent to which they've interacted. Mackerel calls him on it. He's like, what are you talking about? Bro? Right, it's like you handed him a sugar packet and maybe want way more of Mackerel because I like Mackerel is the real character here. He's not a liar. He's like, I need to go to the orthodontist. Derek handed him a sugar packet, like he's a journalists. Yeah, I need a Mackerel drink. A spin off, Oh my god, where he's like her intern or something also there, And this was another character that I think they made show up in the movie for two seconds to be a little brother. But it's yeah, that's Chanel's little brother, right, Yeah, where does he go? Where does he do with their dad? There's a very explicit line in the earlier part where it's like, oh, Pucci's at your dad's house. I'm going out with Luke and I guess it's supposed to be a thing where it's like Pucci's with the dad because he needs a strong male figure in his life or something. But if they also have him running the light and sound the chard for the audition, like a literal child is running the board and you don't know that it's Pucci At first, I'm just like, what is this child labor that's happening at this high school who's also condescending to the Cheetah girls. He does mag them, this eight year old next to Cheetah girls. I have kind of I think that this is at very least a Disney Channel Trent, but I think it might be a stock character that expands beyond the Disney channel of of like precocious little Brother specifically, where it's like a brother who is secretly a tech genius who shows up for plot reasons. This is like Huge and Lisie McGuire, But it comes up in a lot of kids shows where it's like them. If it's a show about a teen girl, there's often a bothersome little brother around who knows how computers work. I also think it's very funny that Chanelle and Pucci are both named after designer brands. Yes, I love it right, and Galeria is named after them all so in Glenda Galeria in the second in the second movie, because they don't really talk about their names in the first one. In the second movie, Galeria literally says to a boy she just met in Barcelona because he's like, my name's Angel, and she's like, oh, that's a beautiful name. Mining name is Galeria. It's a big building where you buy things. And he's like, oh, that's actually in the box too, it is. She was named both of them. Their names are very intentional, and their parents intentional named them those things for the reasons that you hope that they didn't baby capitalisms. I'm going back to the Derek thing really quickly. So after he's like lying about this interaction with a famous musician, then he like leaves the scene, and um, Galeria is like, that's when she gives the incredible line. If he can't respect my art, he can't have my heart or like that. Then later in the movie, after the Cheetah girls have kind of broken up, she is in the theater at school playing a song and then Derek comes in. Here's what he says, quote, it wasn't entirely all that bad. It actually sounded like something not like that pop fluff you usually are doing. And right, and then and then he assumes that someone else wrote it for her, and that she did not write it herself. So he's being this like condescending piece of ship the entire movie. Yeah, he is still negging her, and then at the end they kiss, and it's like, I just I hate this. I don't hate necessarily that there is a romantic subplot. I hate that it's with this kid Derek, who sucks and constantly condescends to her, you know, who doesn't condescend to the Cheetah Girls music and who is very supportive of them. Toto the Dog, Well, you can't, can't Toto the Dog at the end. No, No, I'm not suggesting romantically. I do love the I mean, if we're talking screenwriting kit, then I know you've got a handful of degrees in this. The plant and payoff of Toto and the dog, and they also because of the dcom they reuse the same shot of the dog jumping around constantly. They use it three or four times every day she goes Toto. It's the same shot. It's shot on like a nine team two cam quarter like they did not I don't know. It cuts to this weird, like really grainy, poorly lit shot of the dog in the hole and it's like, what always the thing happened? It's very funny. Yeah, I I didn't think that the thing that it needed to be there. I think it's definitely a part of the Disney Channel formula, and I at least appreciate it that it didn't take up, you know, because sometimes those stories really I mean we were talking about it with Xenon not too long ago, where a boy plot really ends up kind of consuming the back half of the movie. But at least that doesn't happen here. He's like only in three scenes maybe, I mean, he's not in a bad for I also appreciate that, Uh, it is an interracial romance, which is something even for the early two thousand's was not something that was seen, or if it was seen, it wasn't presented in a way that was just normalizing it. It was always like it was something like Save the Last Dance, where it's like a white person and a black person want to kiss. They come from different world. He's hip hop, she's ballet. Can they dance together? Yes, she's a pop star, he's a white rapper. Can they kiss? You're like, I guess, but I do live the Galeria basically says that men are scams. Early on, she's like, I don't have time for that. I need to focus on my career. And that's that for me. Was the problem with the kiss with Derek. At the end, it didn't feel earned. There was no chemistry there, there was no real desire from her to be involved with him. They're like jokes from the other girls. It's like, oh, your boom and she's like, no, he's not. And then at the end for them to kiss, I was like, right, where's this come with m She does she even like, I think that because he was there in the wake of the global get down things. She's like, ah, my rock and I was like, no, get another rock, right, you have Toto Totos, you're rock? I mean yeah. It's like, I wouldn't mind the romance subplot if it had been presented in a way that just made more sense, because it doesn't seem like she likes him. She is very articulate and like makes a lot of sense of the reasons she doesn't like him, um, and then at the end she's like, I guess I like him, and which which is? Um? It just didn't make a ton of sense. I did appreciate um that the main conflict of this movie, it's not a will there won't they? It mainly is like the tension of the friendship with Galeria and Chanel I remember, at least when I was a kid, even though it's like it was aspirational because there's their problems are very like rich girl problems. But I do like seeing um and I feel like you don't get a lot of like two friends in conflict where it's resolved with love. I think that that's always nice to see. And also like Galeria is being a huge asshole to channel for so much of the movie, and like and several other characters every wee, it's the thing they end up with. They end up with. In two thousand three, a disk site chop cheetah dot com. Nothing currently there. I checked. I also checked them. I hope this still exists. Have they kept onto this? Have they held onto this domain the same way space jam has? Since it would it would have been a beautiful thing to see. But I mean, I guess if you're listening and you want that domain name is available. It's my new personal website, chomp cheetah dot com. Jamie, please please do it that domain name. It's just when during the plug section, I'm like, you can check out my website chomp Cheeta dot com. I love that they have a disc site. Um yeah, I mean again, I'm like, I don't mean to be two critical of the I mean the girls that eventually just become the only Cheetah girls sons raven Um, but they, I mean, they just seem to be so they're like, well, we should give these terrifying masks a chance, and I I mean that was That's a great place. I thought. I was like, Okay, this is where they can introduce the class aspect of like okay, like maybe Dorinda is inclined to play ball here with a scary panda mask because they're offering her money that she wants to elevate her status and that is a part of her character. But they kind of don't do that, and they're just like it is more of a fame thing than uh, he is offering them money that would give them independence that they want. I don't know that, And it's like it's weird to me. Well maybe maybe I don't know how to feel about this, but I found it something that Galeria is both the character who turns into an enormous like asshole to everyone and is mean and condescending to everyone. That she and Derek deserve each other since they're both condescending to everybody, but she is like very mean to everyone. And but then she's also the character with like this wrongest conviction in terms of like, no, we need to be true and authentic to ourself and our music, and we're not going to sell out. So it feels like those two things should have been given to two different characters. Maybe, I don't know, unless they were making a really sophisticated point, which is that people can be assholes and then also occasionally make a good point. But that doesn't seem like the kind of sophisticated point that it should be made in a movie for eleven year old like right, that seems like a more like a three hour long Paul Thomas Anderson thing to say, don't you mean inception by Christopher Nolan. No, his character suck um you know, but uh yeah, I guess Galeria does turn into such a cartoon villain for a good twenty minutes of the movie, and then she becomes She's right at the beginning, and then it starts good where it's like, oh, she said she was the founder, that's not necessarily true. Now you're like, okay, that's an interesting But then she just goes full like she's cackling for an entire montage um and then she's kind of back to being the moral center and like our art is more important than our than capitalism. And yeah, it's a little messy. I do appreciate that perhaps the movie is making commentary on how like the music industry, among many other branches of the entertainment industry try to like co modify people, especially young women, to like sell stuff. It's very intentional to me because they were like, oh, we're gonna capitalize on the letter G being big this year. We're going to capitalize environmentalism and how all of these creatures are endangered. And I was just like, well, can we just talk for a second about their sound, because they briefly are like, yeah, you guys sound good, which is why we're going to put you into this thing that's nothing at all like you. And it was just sort of this complete erasure of everything that made the Cheetah girls cheet delicious and fierce. And I am very disturbed by their handshake though, where there is a very realistic cheetah growl, I'm like, how do you make that sound out of your mouth? Multiple times? That was also in the trailer, I remember very clearly because it's just yeah, like copy paste cheetah sound dot MP three, Like it's the same row every time. Yes, I will say. What was interesting to me about that sort of montage where Galleria was just laughing at her own hilarity and Jackal says that all the time was that as soon as everything became about a man, it got very hairy and like very unfun and uninteresting, And that was sort of the commentary for me. It was like when you let men enter your sphere and you make things about the men entering your sphere instead of about your girls and about the connection that you have and the people that were already in your world. So just even taking gender out of it, like when you let somebody else come in and influence you as opposed to the people that you built something with, that's when things go topsy turvy and bad totally. I like, I mean that I'd never had that read of it before that that I love that read is like when you let men and capitalism into your mix. Things get bad your world. You get this website, you get cheating, you get chop Cheeta dot com. I think too, like there's um the lyrics to several of their songs are empowering for women and young girls, like there's and and maybe it's a little bit of like the superficial, Like I mean, there's literally a song called girl Power, which we have criticized the idea on the podcast a lot of the idea of like nineties, early two thousands, like just very surface level girl power sentiment that is not that helpful for our purposes. But I've also been thinking about this recently, where like girls and women generally have to learn feminism because you know, we grow up, we're still surrounded by patriarchal structures. We are often conditioned to think and believe certain things that are in direct conflict with our own self interest, and we have to unlearn a lot of stuff. But you know, you have to start somewhere when it comes to learning feminism. So the kind of surface level like girl power thing that is often directed at young girls, Yes, it's very superficial, but it also feels like a good entry point, you know, for this learning process as long as it also like moves into more kind of complicated feminism that everyone needs to learn. Well, I think that that's my general problem with this message is that it doesn't really it doesn't tend to do that Cinderella sort of more than girl Power. The song Cinderella has the idea of don't wait around for a man to rescue you, rescue yourself. You have that power and you have the capability. But then that's the first song that we're really getting from them as the Cheetah Girls, and then it just sort of devolves into like generic, Oh, we're here for each other, and like how how are you here for each other? Are you disclosing your salaries to make sure that everybody is getting paid the same, and like what's the deal? How? What is the action here? Not just the sort of slogan the future is female sort of deal? Right, there's I guess that that is. And and this is like, I mean, cheated Girls. I'm like, I almost want to give cheating Girls a pass on it because I love the Cheata Girls so much, But but all of these, I mean, my main criticism of the girl power aesthetic has always been that, like the sentence itself not a problem with it. Yeah, girls should have more power than they do, and they should be empowered by themselves and by each other and by the people around them. But to me, the message underneath that girl power message is that the way to get power is by being complicit in capitalism and participating in it as thoroughly and as heavily as you can, which is also baked into what the Cheetah Girls are and what their aspirations are. It's like they want to succeed through capitalism. Obviously, it's like the cheat, Like I'm not asking the Cheata Girls to be a socialist text Like it's fine as is, but just that overarching like we I think we started talking about it in our Spice Girls episode like three years ago at this point, but that it's like I agree with what they're saying, but how much is actually done through the actions. I think that the Cheetah Girls are certainly doing a lot more than Spice World was, um, but not as much as Josie and the Pussycats exactly. Like if if we're talking about the spectrum of you know, how much franchisees challenging us the best movie ever? Okay, let's got the shirt. Yes, thank you, Jamie. Jamie bought it for me and my mom. I have two of the same shirt. That means two people know you very well. So yeah, I think that that's I mean. But it's capitalism is baked into the Cheetah Girls to such a comical degree that it's kind of funny because their names are Galleria and Chanel, like they are embodying it. And I feel like, especially the books, Dorinda presents uh kind of an oppositional force and a bit of a challenge to that mindset, which she sort of does in the movie as well. But yeah, I don't know. I'm never gonna like two thousands girl power, and partially because I deeply resent it. It's a tough thing to reckon with because you do, again want girls to have more power and do sort of want to implant just the seed of the idea that like, hey, girls, you can be in n y U math classes and be good at STEM. But it's also like, how are you then going to use that? It's it's about what you do with the tools that you're given, and right now they're just like, let's use these tools to help build the capitalist machine. Ding, Ding, what are you gonna do with the buckets of duckets. Once you have acquired the buckets of duckets gallery, are you going to redistribute it things? We distribute the duckets the duckets. But yeah, I mean, like in this song Cinderella, I think some of the lyrics are I can slay my own dragons, I can dream my own dreams. My night in shining Armor is me, So I'm going to set me free. I don't want to be lax and dure. It's so good. That's not a Cheetah Girls original bt dubs. Really another group I think it like, is some European group also corded that song prior to the film, and then they repackaged it as a Cheetah Girls song for the movie. I cannot remember the name of the group. Hal I thought that Galeria wrote Cinderella, as she claims in the film. I know, yeah, Also there was I was like, oh, no, there's authorship issues. That never bodes well for a group. No, it doesn't. The last thing I wanted to talk about was Galeria. We've alluded to this heavily, so maybe I won't even be a very long discussion. But Galeria and her mom uh, Dorothea uh. And I am just now connecting Dorothea and Toto, Okay, Jamie, Oh nope, didn't make that connection either, you know. And they love the love the Wizard of Oz. And there's the scene right before Toto goes down into the hole, which maybe is Toto's own version of Oz. Who's to say? Where? Um? Where? Gallery is like bummed because of the globe will get down thing, and Dorothea is like, well, maybe we'll just go home and watch your favorite movie. And she's like, I don't know if the Wizard of Oz can solve this. I remember really liking that because it was my favorite movie when I was a kid. But Dorothea, I I used to be more like I feel like it's it's interesting. I want to like give props to Deborah, and I also want to give props to Allison on the way that this character is written in the movie, because it's like, I feel like there's multiple reads on her. Like when I saw her when I was a kid, I was definitely like, oh, okay, this is like a parent who is going to be withholding from their kid who wants to do something cool, Like I've seen this character. I get it. But when you revisit this character as like we were saying, it's like, oh, you totally understand why she's like she's protecting Galleria. That wasn't She wasn't just saying that, she she meant it. Yeah, I mean she was looking at this contract and Jacko was like standard contract. She crosses out several subsections of the contract, looks at him and said standard revisions, which I was just yes, because she's like, she's like a famous fashion designer. She would know all about this ship and she would be released like you know, like rightfully skeptical, and she would know this whole world and like it just I was very team Dorothea on this watch. She really cares about her kids. I also thought it was really badass that she was so mean to Jaggle the second she met him, like maybe a little bit too me, but like she I don't know, I don't care, but like it was she was so aggressively mean. And then Gallery was like, you don't know who Jackal Johnson is, and then she named five hundred facts about him. She's like, I do know who he is, I just don't respect him. Yeah, I read and I'm like, yes, you do, mom, Yes you do. Um, yeah, I mean harkening back to like our Xenon episode on the Matreon, where we had a big problem with the way the like Xenon his parents were treated in that like her mother was this like hysterical woman who has to put on a stress helmet. And then but her dad is like the cool dad who like gets her and like is chill and relaxed, And I think they're on the on the very surface, there is a similar dynamic here in that, like you have a concerned mother and then a chiller dad. But I feel like it was handled way better here because you understand where the mother is coming from. She's not presented nearly as much as being this like hysterical like shrew mom who's like no, like she's looking out for her daughter. She knows stuff. She knows how music is recorded, she knows about contracts. She comes in very informed, and um, she's also just like characterized beyond we we get to know more about her character that like contextualizes why she's so like concerned for her daughter and like her daughter's friends and stuff. So I liked that. I always get a little I mean, there was a little bit of cool dad dattery going on here where that is someone that was like, come on, like, dude, it would be fun if we let her do the thing. And but but I did appreciate that you get something you don't get in Xenon, which is a little like, look at what their relationship dynamic is. You get like a sweet moment with them that doesn't seem particularly aggressive to either character, and you almost like so I was more lenient towards the way that results. It wasn't just like dad's of course, as we know, are way cooler than moms, and that's why this is happening. Like you get a look at she gets to speak her piece, say why she doesn't agree with it, the dad gets to speak his piece, and then they make a compromise. So I was like, Okay, this isn't the worst way that I've seen this play out in like a Disney movie. And it felt like both parents were coming from a place of wanting Galeria to be happy and healthy, which I appreciate it because the dad wasn't just like let her have fun. He was like, she has this dream. This can maybe help her achieve this dream, and there's never going to be a point at which she is not going to want to achieve this dream, but if it falls apart, now we are here to help support her. And I think that that's important that we be here to help support her. So I thought that that was a really interesting take on it, where he's like, I'm not just fun Dad, I am fun dad who also wants to be able to support her when this may not work out because that happens, and she has her first situation where it doesn't work out, and we're here, so she knows that the next time how to handle it better, which is logic I can basically follow. I was like, okay, Dad has maybe not the point I agree with most, but a point. And then they didn't just go into it willy nilly. It was like both parents came together. It's like, okay, so we are going to let you do this because this is your dream, but I'm going to go with you as your mother, and I'm going to make sure that you don't fall behind in your grades or anything like that. Like they're conditioned like don't forget the capers at the store, don't put your dog in a whole, et cetera. Yeah, I really, I mean it's I originally was skeptical of that, but now even as we're talking about like me and I think it's actually fine. Yeah, the dog in the hole, the doctor and maybe they should have left in there. He was in there. I will never get over that. I watched that. I must have rewound that five hundred times. That the firefighter baby like staying faster, staying faster, it's working, it's working. Wait, okay, sorry, if the whole is Oz, the director of this movie is Oz Scott. The connections keep coming. Makes you think, my goodness, is this funded by the illuminati? Do you think that? Yeah? I think we can pretty definitively say that. Yeah. And recently we did find out that Beyonce a k A. Backstaba and Karma's Children is secretly Italian and half that item was so one of the messiest news items of the year. And that's saying something truly messier than the global pandemic is the would be member of the House of Legislature who's like, did you know that Beyonce is secretly Italian? She's not even black. Don't listen to any of her pro black rhetoric because she is scamming you all. It exploded my brain. They're like, she's working for the meatball lobby, the spaghetti Like You're just like, what are you talking about so much? So much? Um? Yeah, it doesn't doesn't even have anything else. I think that was all I had. Those are all my main things. Most importantly, how do they make the realistic growling sounds in the handshake? I think we went into that it was a copy paste. Oh there is a line that we have not talked about that. I just think the hold I hold it very near to my heart, which is after a history test. Um. Oh, I also think this is important. Galeria calls a Cheetah Girl study session, so they are about, you know, supporting academically as well. But they talked about the Louisiana purchase and Chanelle says, are you sure the Louisiana purchase had nothing to do with gumbo? And I'm just like, Mrs Almanac truly has failed you. That was what she had to go to talk to Mrs Almanac about, like, how would anybody buy gumbo for fifteen million dollars? What's the deal with that? That was the actual price of Louisiana purchase. I was an a music about the Louisiana purchase. So I remember many fun facts about it. Oh my good at ten not recently. You got to go into and tell Galeria she are not Galleria Chanelle she was. That was another. There are so many like quick like I mean, it's it's a service is it's like an homage to the book. But the quippy lines that pop up are just they're so fun me and they're so weird. And there's a really good one that I like. Sorry, there's also a dog. My new neighbor got a very yippie dog, Toto. It's in a hole and it's it's yipping very loudly right now, So my apologies for that. But there's one line that I my favorite line in the entire movie is when um Chanelle shows up at Dorinda's apartment and this is like her discovery of like her you know, living in like the super's apartment kind of thing, and Dorinda says, oh, if I would have known you were coming over, I would have been rich and lived somewhere else, and it's like, that is very funny. You should be a comedian. Speaking of comedians, Oh my gosh. Okay, So there's the one of the guys in the Talent Show is this male comedian who's talking about like he's doing a bird impression and um dieing that. Cheetah girls are like, he's so funny. They love it. It doesn't seem that funny. But my favorite hard about that is Drinka is like, Okay, you've gone over your three minutes, Like stop now, like a male comedians trying to go over his time and she's and Drink is having none of it. She's like, Nope, you're done now. I always leave them wanting more. It's fine. I liked that there. I just when they cut to the Cheetah girls losing it, being like, oh my god, he's so random, but like you're just like a fully triggered by them by this open the seventeen year old open micer just another fun behind the scenes fact. Keeley Williams later in her career, released a song. I don't know if either of you have heard of it or seen the music video for it. It's called Spectacular, and the original video has been taken down, I believe, but it's still up there in many facets and it is wildly different than you would think based on her past music. Um, really, if you've never seen it. Check it out. I'm mean the chorus of the song goes, the sex was spectacular. The sex was spectacular. They're a little like oh sounds, They're delicious. Post Disney music careers. That has to be someone's like doctoral thesis. There's there's just so much to be found. It's it's ripe. It is a field ripe for study. And it was kind of controversial when it came out. People were like, Kiely's gone wild. And I think at this point it was like ten or twelve years ago, so it's been a while. But in college that was one of my favorite videos. I would watch it at least once a month because I was just like, this is crazy. It was octacular. Check it out. Let me know what you think. As far as sex songs go. That is like a pretty polite thing to say that the sex was spec tacular. She's using like, you know, C word to describe the sex. It was. Yeah, it was a plus sex. According to Parquil, She's like, gotta gotta pull up the thesaurus and see how else can describe this. That's my last thing I wanted to say. I just needed everyone to know about spectacular. I appreciate that. So as far as the Bechtel test, um does the Cheetah Girls pass the Bechdel test every almost every second of thee yeah, constantly. I don't think they mentioned men as existing for like a solid three and a half minutes, which is I think the longest I've ever seen a movie go without mentioning a man in the opening of it. And when they do talk about men, it's generally a reference to Jackal and it still is at least even when it doesn't pass, it's usually still tangentially about their careers, which yeah, yeah, this I think might be like one of the most Bechtel test passing movies we have ever done. I would agree it passes the DuVernay test, that passes the Duverney test it um. I think it might not pass the reverse Spectel test, in which I don't think men or boys. Mackerel and Derek do talk to each other, but I feel like they're always they're talking either about the girls or they're talking to the girl. Like their interactions are very few and far between on screen, so usually connected to the girls. Yeah, and usually connected to the girls. Yeah. Yeah. Realizing that now, I'd like to think that maybe Mackerel's ornantists is a woman also, so even when he's in his famous line, he's talking about a woman. Hell yeah, Now I have the sex with Spectacular, a song I've never heard stuck in my head, but it's it does say were pass the test? It does it so seamlessly too, where I feel like sometimes when movies pass the backteal test, they really like all but break the fourth wall to be like, are you happy? Um, but this is a great I mean, davora. Gregory has built a world that is so centered on female characters and their ambitions and their dreams and their conflicx that it's like, it's just seamless. It's just built into what this world is. Which brings us to our nipple scale um, in which we examine how the movie fares from an intersectional lens on a scale of zero to five nipples. And I would say there's a lot to consider here, because you know, you have the issue with the Dorinda character being whitewashed from the book to movie adaptation, which is upsetting. On the other hand, of the characters who you're rooting for, who get the most screen time and dialogue and narrative significance they are predominantly black and Latin X women, and the fact that it's by and large a story about female friendship, female creative expression, like women making art and entertainment. Are they too concerned with capitalism? Yes, but they're also fifteen, so maybe they'll grow out of it. And you know, like same thing with Galeria becoming really mean. The second she gets a taste of fame, she doesn't handle it well. But again, she's fifteen, and then she learns, and then she learns, and she she understands that the important thing is her friendship with these other girls, and that's the resolution of the story. UM. So I like that aspect of it, that the that the movie, the story um centers around the female friendship. I think that there is a shortage of that in media directed to children, especially to young girls, So I appreciate that. Um there's a few, you know, the issues that we've talked about, like the weird romantic subplot with the kid being an asshole. I guess I'd give it like a four still, I think four nipples, and I'll give one to each cheetah girl I want to go for as well. I was really pleasantly surprised at just on revisiting the books a little bit as well, and just kind of like resurfacing all this old, unused cheated Girls canon information that I had inside of my head. Of how much on the rewatch, I did find that it was generally, um, true to the spirit of the books. It was less disney Fied than I expected. Again, this is like some qualifying language of like, wow, I thought that Disney would have really fucked it up like they have sucked up other franchises. Um, but in general I think that especially and I guess, just jumping off what you're saying, Caitlin, I was happy to see that the behind the scenes team was mostly black artists and people of color. I was really glad that Debora Gregory was involved in a meaningful wake and it really shows. And yeah, I mean it's a predominantly um non white cast. Really the only two well I guess with Dryanda, guess she is a white coated character. Um. But it is all the all the authority figures that you see that you love are are non white characters. And then there's Jackal, who is evil. Uh. There's there's just like so much that this movie is doing right in two thousand three that most movies in two thousand three weren't doing right. So it definitely has its issues, and I think that all of these issues can basically be boiled down to the disneyfication elements that did get through, the whitewashing, the forced in uh love story that doesn't really belong there um. But all things considered, I feel like it. It was and it was a huge hit, which again is just it makes it extremely apparent that the representation that this movie offers, even though it is not in no way perfect, was very wanted and very needed, and it became this super successful franchise until Raven left. So I'm gonna give it for I still really enjoy this movie. Cinderella is a great song, and I'll give, We'll give. I don't want to be mean to Dorenda, but I'm going to give one to every Cheeta girl but Dorinda, and then give that nipple to Drink A sorry drink. I thought you were going to give it to Angie because I know you're a big Angie Sngie. Well, yes, Angie, and you can share a nipple with Drinka when she's so quiet she she wouldn't request more than half a nipple. I couldn't hear her. Yeah, for me, I think that I, like Jamie, came back at the movie and was surprised by how much I liked it and how much more I liked it, especially as an adult. What really I get caught on is, I mean the whitewashing is slump them and the just rampant capitalism and non addressing of classism and class issues that happened. I mean that one scene with Galleria where she's like, you need to change the way you dress, and she harps on the way that Dorinda dresses in a couple of scenes, and that for me was just like unchecked classism part like just to a level that is unbelievable even for a teenager. That is kind of not really resolved between them either, right, So that that takes it a little bit down on the nipple scale for me, But again I am very pro one also showing interracial families and these blended families and non traditional families where um, they do have a single parent and it's not like the second parent is dead, because that is a huge Disney thing where it's like if it's going to be a single parent, the other one's dead. Divorce doesn't exist. You die or you're there. So that's really great for me. And uh, I feel like I'm gonna give it three and a half nipples. I'm going to give it the lowest on the nipple scale so far because that the classes um really does get me. And that's I think such an important aspect of intersectionality. And a lot of people focus on the race aspect, but class, I think is so intertwined with that too in general, generational wealth or whatnot. Um. So, yeah, three and a half nipples. But I really came into it looking at rewatching it for this episode. I was like, I'm only gonna give it like a nipple, maybe half a nipple, and I was just like, oh, actually maybe three, maybe four somewhere in there. So it is a well deserved and earned three and a half nipples. I think if I were to rate it on like how much do I enjoy watching this movie or how well do I think this screenplay has written, No, I would give it far lower. I give it, I give it, I'd give it maybe like why is the climax about a dog in a hole? Sometimes dogs go into whole scale on a screenwriting nipple scale, I would give it like two nipples. But there there's it's the Checoban dog in a hole, I will say for me, I think screenwriting definitely lower nipples. No disrespect to Allison. It is a monumental task to have to adapt, and also to have to adapt a series of books. It's not just one story, it's several stories, and they do tread into territory I think from the first three or four books. So that is impressive, but it didn't quite track, especially if you hadn't read the books. From an enjoyment nipple scale, i'd give it more nipples. I enjoyed it just objectively as something I could watch on this Saturday night, even as a grown up. I'm like, this is good. This is very good. It made me homesick. I was like just thinking of all my childhood friends and I was watching that. I was like, oh, it was a simpler time. Yes, the nostalgia is strong, it really is. Yeah, but they're but as we will find out in as we continued into our Matreon episodes about d coms, uh, the person that the important character in Whole is a is a common d coom convention because in Caitlin Chu saying at the climax of Cadet Kelly, animals not diad falls. It's less of a full he falls off a cliff into there's a falling thing. And that is also the climax of Cadet Kelly. Now I do remember the Cadet Kelly cliff thing. I remember the ribbons more. The ribbons were a big thing. I was like, I could ribbon dance. I cannot. I cannot do any dance. Is it ribbons? Aren't they flinging guns around there like toy rifles? But then they replaced rifles with ribbons, And that's feminism metaphor early two thousands. They really had to figure it out back then. I wonder if there is like a style guide that if you're hired to write a d com, they're like, if you're getting stuck, here's what we would do. Are you having trouble in the third act? Put someone in a hole, just toss him somewhere. Yeah, have someone fall and almost I I was just watching an episode of So Weird, which was a Disney Channel show. Um yes, and there was an episode where Fee goes missing and she does fall off a cliff and then is in a cave, which is just a very large horizontal hole. That's true. They're really just going for it with that. She saved by Bigfoot. So that's the so weird aspect of it. That show is really fun. I don't remember anything about it except that I liked it. It's on Disney Plus. You should rewatch it. Okay, all right, oh Grandma, thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much, so much fun. What a wild what a wild time we've had? Um Where where can people follow your stuff and find you online? Okay, if you want to follow me, please just do it on the internet, not in real life because that's crazy. But I'm at Karama Drama k O r a m A drama on all platforms, and by all I mean Instagram and Twitter because I am very afraid of TikTok. I am not cool. Don't understand it. I think that it's super cool and there's so much stuff on it that's interesting. They have conspiracy theorists, they have like life hackers, they have education stuff and like alternative education and counter education. But I am very intimidated by all of the dancing and the editing that happens, and I just oh yeah, I love to watch other people's TikTok. I just have no idea how to produce my own content there to talk, I finally understand why there were all these weird people, Like I've used to think people who are on Twitter there were just an egg and never said anything. We're so weird. But I'm like, oh, that's literally me on TikTok. That's what I do. I just look at stuff and I say nothing. I feel like Twitter, though, it's weirder because everybody on Twitter knows words like on the talk to create content. There's a lot that goes into it in terms of like means a sin and all of that stuff, you know, like, uh well, speaking of Twitter and social media, you can follow us there at spectel Cast. You can subscribe to our Patreon aka Matreon. It's five dollars a month. It's two bonus episodes every month, plus access to our entire back catalog. There is a siren happening behind me and um. You can go to patreon dot com slash spectel cast for access to that. Yeah, you can get are all of our merch. However, at public dot com slash the backsel Cast, we have masks. I just saw someone wearing us sexy baby grinch mask and I for credit it. Why try have ever made in my whole life bear icon baby grinchy. So that is something you could do if you so choose and someone in facted it. Um. Yeah, we'll see you on the Matrian will see on the main feed and thank you for being here, Granma. This was so much fun. I please, I would love to come back whenever you come back any time, anytime, anytime. And this is the point where Caitlyn, would it be the most annoying thing if at the end you just edit it in a really loud cheetah girl cheetah sound effect. Uh yeah, I'll do my best and if if I manage it, it's gonna go right here. Wow. Bye