051 | HARMONY with Dr. Garfield Bright, Multi-Platinum Recording Artist and Co-Founder of Shai

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<|0.00|> Now it was our turn to be the encore. We don't have anything left. We had digital audio tape with that<|4.28|><|4.28|> And we had we had our songs on there. We exhausted the deck. What are you gonna do?<|8.38|><|8.38|> And that's what on the stage we decided well, I'm gonna do a little practice song, you know<|12.32|><|12.32|> If I ever a little a cappella practice song and so I let's do it<|15.74|><|15.74|> So we started that off and by the second chorus man that rowdy crowd was actually singing the chorus<|21.54|><|21.54|> Like haven't never heard it. And so when the curtains closed right there on stage like a movie or something, as soon as the curtains close,<|28.80|><|28.80|> we say, hey, y'all, y'all wanna get a record deal?

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My name is Garfield Bright, and I am undone, y'all.

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Hello, friend, it is another great day to get better.

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Welcome back to another episode of Becoming Undone, the podcast for those who dare bravely, risk mightily, and grow relentlessly.

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Join me, Toby Brooks, as I invite a new guest each week to examine how high achievers can transform from falling apart to falling into place.

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Let's start this episode off by telling you a little story.

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I was a junior in high school.

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I was a drummer in my high school's marching and pep bands.

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Me and my bandmates had just finished playing before a girls' basketball game, and we percussionists were picking up our drums and our other gear when I happened to notice a new CD sitting on the bleachers.

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Now you Millennials and Gen Zers probably don't understand the etiquette involved back in the day when a friend got a new CD.

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You had to pick it up, give it a look, open the hinge, pull out the liner notes, appreciate it. I was a huge fan of rap, hip-hop, and the new-to-me surge and popularity of R&B and quickly become a fan of all the Boyz II Men, Guy, Keith Sweat, and Bel Biv Devoe I could find. I hadn't heard of the group that I was holding in my hands, but I was intrigued. Who could forget the four guys on the cover, in that brightly colored hoodie, a name I wasn't quite sure how to pronounce?

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Who's is this? I asked. Fellow drummer and freshman John Jones piped up. That's mine, leave it alone. John was a friend and a kid brother of my best friend Mark.

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Can I borrow it I asked?

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No way, I just got it.

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I was intrigued.

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I finally found a copy of my own a few days later.

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I popped it in my CD player.

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It was fantastic.

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Smooth harmonies, a few up-tempo tracks, a heaping helping of stuff to sing to your lady.

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I was a shy fan from the moment my ears heard the art that they produced.

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So much so, that I almost had a shy song at my wedding. More on that later.

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And so much so that I purchased every album they ever released. Even after that scaldingly bright shine of a star that burst on the scene in 1992, it eventually began to dim.

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One of the founders of that group, Garfield Bright, can only be described as a renaissance man. What else could you call a guy who's gone multi-platinum, has a PhD and sports an Instagram profile that is packed full of admiring fans still looking to get a glimpse of that childhood heartthrob.

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Listen in as we catch up with the groundbreaking artist who since added author and educator to his long list of titles Dr. Garfield Bright in episode 51 Harmony. This week's guest is I'm not gonna lie I'm gonna fanboy a little bit here.

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Kind of a dream come true.

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A huge fan of Shy, and then I'm also a PhD.

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So we're kind of crossing over some things here.

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So Dr. Garfield Bright, thank you for joining us today.

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Hey man, thanks for having me.

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I appreciate it.

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Super cool.

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Well, the purpose of this show is to really shine a spotlight on the fact that lots of times stuff doesn't go the way we scripted it.

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Lots of times we face setbacks, we face adversity.

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But instead of bemoaning those and complaining or woe is me, those are oftentimes the things that really catapult us to our next level of success.

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And so love the story of Shy.

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So we'll kind of start there, maybe even a little bit before there, but also the year since then and the things you've done.

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So I always kind of toss a softball out there to begin with.

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What did you want to be growing up?

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Man, I remember when I was real, real, real, real, real young playing with Legos, I fancied myself a future architect.

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You know, I was real athletic, so I always, you know, held the dream, so to speak, for anything athletic.

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You know, I had some good athletic gifts, so I just figured that was going to be a part of my trajectory.

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But for some reason, neither of those manifested.

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Right. I always think it's interesting.

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Artists always want to be athletes and athletes always want to be artists, but it's the individual that can do them both.

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Obviously, where I came across your work and your artistry, your group, I was a junior in high school in 1992 when the first album dropped, but there's more to the story than that.

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You burst on the scene as an overnight success, but there's way more to it than that. So start at the beginning for you, wherever that was.

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Well, I was just, you know, to give you some kind of context, I guess, for me, in terms of my musical foray.

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I love music, fervent, you know, avid music guy.

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But my household, unlike most black guys who end up in the music industry, I didn't have a gospel kind of background or anything like that.

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My dad played straight ahead jazz in the house.

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And so my ear for music was, well, amalgamation jazz, hip hop of the day, because I had my first set of turntables and I had UTFO, and then I had The Word Is Out. The beats went together real good, so Roxyne was getting mixed with that. And I thought I was going to be a DJ, I was in music that way. So I loved to hear music. But if I couldn't hear on the radio, I would just start singing it. But once again, what I'll be pulling from is those jazz kind of chops. So I had this real fixation for harmony, and when I would hear anything, and I'm listening to jazz influence growing up, I would try to hear the harmonic. I would try to understand what the bass line was doing and why they picked those notes in the bass line when the main melodies of those chords in the jazz were doing something seemingly different. I'm wondering how this bass line guy even hearing those notes to be compatible with like that that intrigued me as a six seven year old So anything that I would ever hear musically I would just instantly try to do a harmonic with it No matter what genre music it was in my reflex was that Now allow me to slowly climb up onto my generation x soapbox and point out some stuff garfield just said here friend First just listen It's not hard to see why when shy burst on the scene in 1992, ladies all over the world were going crazy for the velvety smoothness of the four-part harmony that Garfield helped create. I could listen to him read the federal tax code aloud and find myself entertained. And I'm as straight as they come.

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Next, lots of us olds like to complain about autotune and the lack of artistry in modern music. Garfield grew up literally immersed in jazz and found himself drawn to other genres like hip-hop and R&B early on as he grew up, and that helped him grow as a young musician, always looking to further hone his craft.

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It would be those years of practice and research and listening and experimenting that would eventually allow him and the other members to become overnight successes.

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There are no shortcuts to artistry, and Garfield's journey proves that sometimes it takes years of hard work alone before we ever get the opportunity to shine for the masses.

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So, that was just for fun.

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That was just me.

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With no aspirations.

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I get to college, go to Howard University, major in political science, minor in history, ultimately.

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First, I was a science major, but anyway, long story.

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But Darnell and I were freshman roommates, and Darnell comes from this big, huge musical background.

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He was in the band.

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He was there early, just like I was, because he was in band camp.

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He was much like the guy from Drumline except he played trumpet. Like he was a real prodigy and as a freshman he was making up Howard's Dance Steps. So he had his dexterity. He was off the hook.

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He could play the trumpet real well, but he could play bass guitar, the piano. He was a real musical guy. He was my roommate. So his dad was a social worker at this high school called Esau High School in New Jersey, in P-Town. And that's the same school from Lean On Me, the movie Lean On Me, with Joe Clark.

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Darnell actually went to that school, and his homeboys were the guys in the bathroom singing that Fair East Side, that song.

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Now, it's been a long time since I watched the movie Lean On Me, and I'd forgotten about the song East Side High.

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When Garfield mentioned it, I had to look it up.

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Take a listen for yourself.

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You don't wanna go in there, Mr. Clark, and stink.

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Yep.

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My, my, my.

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I'm sure you've learned the school song by now.

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You better know it because this time if you don't get it right, you're suspended for 10 days each.

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Now is that clear?

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Is that clear?

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Yes, sir.

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All right then.

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School song.

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Let me hear it.

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All right, fellas.

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Let him hear it.

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Fair East Side.

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Fair East Side.

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Fair East Side.

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By thy side we'll stand And always praise thy name Praise thy name, praise thy name Forever To ever, yeah, lend our hearts and hands to help increase thy fame.

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Oh Lord, the honor, yeah, of old Eastside calls forth our loyalty.

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I don't know about you, but I got goose bumps right there.

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This clip is from the movie Garfield alluded to, Lean on Me.

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But it wasn't the actors and artists that you hear from the movie that Garfield's freshman roommate and eventual Shia co-founder, Darnell Van Rensselaer was friends with.

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It was the actual group the movie was based on, Riff, from Patterson, New Jersey.

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So while Garfield brought musical chops and influence of his own, fortunately for us, fate helped him cross paths with another incredible musician in Darnell.

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But it wasn't straight from freshman year to superstardom.

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There were some steps and some adversity in between.

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Darnell's dad was their manager and the social worker.

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So we had all these songs by the group Riff in advance.

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And me and Darnell used to go out in the alleyway between our dorm and the girls' dorm on Friday nights and sing songs, sing Riff songs.

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The girls had a balcony.

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They would lean out and be looking at us, sing these songs, and we'd be wooing the crowd.

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And our other roommate named Antonio was a saxophone player.

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So we had three guys in there that were musical and the girls were loving it.

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So that was our inspiration, is like the girls kind of like, you know, adoration at the end of a Friday night with a couple of brews to fill that. So that in my mind, so Darnell and I, we had that little magic. And then he and I went separate ways, like sophomore, junior year, we moved out of that dorm. And so I moved in. I got another dorm, he moved into another dorm, you know, they assign you each year in the housing lottery or whatever. So they put him in another dorm. And then in that time period, as he grew into a young man, he pledged a fraternity called Alpha Phi Alpha with the other two guys and shot Mark and Carl.

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And I went on a whole other trajectory.

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Like I became real political.

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I joined a quasi Black Panther kind of organization called Black Near Force, the head of which is now the mayor of Newark, New Jersey, Ras Baraka.

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I also ran for Howard University Student Body Association president, liberal arts vice president.

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Like I was involved in that kind of stuff.

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And you know, I was doing my thing.

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And later on, like junior year, we ran back into each other after having kind of grew into ourselves.

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And it was like late one night in front of Fine Arts.

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And Darnell had been practicing with the two other guys.

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They had a group called Beta.

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It's a big talent show coming up at Howard, much like the Apollo, but because it was rowdy.

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Like the New York guys that liked to boo at the Apollo, they were at Howard.

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And then the football player guys who just wanted to just do something rowdy anyway on a Friday night with a few drools in the system, they wanted to, they were there being rowdy. So to win that crowd over was a big deal. And so we were in there, all this tremendous talent, luckily by the luck of the draw, not because we were the headliners, but I think we went last just because we were just last. And by that time, the muscle that worn out, the reflex, the boo reflex that worn out on all the rowdy people. And so they actually listened to what we had to sing. We sung all these Boyz II Men songs. But before we get to that show, it was like five of those guys rehearsing. I was just, my dad had claimed me on his taxes, and so I lost my financial aid, even though I was married at the time. And so I lost my financial aid for a hour, but I still had my housing. So instead of going to school, I was going to the Fine Arts Building with Darnell every day for like two or three months, watching him rehearse with those fellas, knowing that a big show was coming up. I guess a couple of them got cold feet right before the show. It went from five part harmony to like just three people. Then now they're actually missing a part. So Darnell was like, yo G man, you been here every day like soaking this in. I know you know at least the bass parts or something. And I was like, yeah I do know the bass line. So I agreed to jump on there with him right before the show. We were the only group that didn't get booed.

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And that was my moral victory.

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I just didn't want to get booed.

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But it went from not being booed to getting an encore.

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And so we had run out.

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We were doing all these Boyz II Men covers.

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Now it was our turn to be the encore.

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We don't have anything left.

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We had digital audio tape of that.

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And we had all our songs on there.

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We exhausted the dat.

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What are we going to do?

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And that's when on the stage we decided, well, I'm going to do a little practice song, if I ever, a little acapella practice song.

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And so, all right, let's do it.

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So we started that off.

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And by the second chorus, man, that rowdy crowd was actually singing the chorus.

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Like, having never heard it.

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♪ And if I ever fall in love again ♪♪ I will be sure that the lady is a friend ♪And they were really just singing our chorus, my little homegrown song.

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These people moved to the point of knowing the words and singing it.

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This hard crowd.

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And so when the curtains closed, right there on stage, it's like a movie or something, as soon as the curtains closed, we say, hey, y'all, y'all want to get a record deal?

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It's been said that luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.

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And Shy's story, and more specifically Garfield's story, is a fantastic example of how setbacks can be blessings in disguise.

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First, he finds himself unable to stay enrolled at Howard University for a semester due to a financial aid issue, which obviously would be hard to take.

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Undeterred, Garfield instead uses the semester of no classes as an unstructured internship of sorts, immersing himself in the music that he, his friend Darnell, and his new friends Carl, Mark, and some others were working on.

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When it came time to debut in front of a notoriously rowdy crowd, a couple of members of the group failed the show.

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So the group that would later become Gasoline Alley recording artists, Shy, took the stage.

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Darnell, Carl, Mark, and Garfield.

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The quartet quickly won the crowd over with several covers of Boyz II Men songs.

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They were so well received that they performed everything they prepared with a backing track, ultimately deciding to break out what would become their highest charting single in group history, If I Ever Fall in Love, which would eventually reach number two on Billboard's Hot 100, and it would be the signature cut on their platinum album by the same name in 1992.

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Some might call it luck.

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I'd call it destiny.

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Shy was born.

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All they needed was a record deal.

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And then everybody was like, word, let's try.

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And we were on the avenues of America, maybe within the next couple of weeks, auditioning for major labels, getting dissed.

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They were smoking cigarettes while we were singing acapella, all that.

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We came back to D.C. WPGC radio station had a softball game with the community.

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You know, the radio station wants to ingratiate themselves with community and stuff.

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So they'll play like a go-to and play a sport.

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And, you know, they bring everybody out to Portable Studio and we handed them a tape.

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They said, you know man, they loved it so much and the people ready, the radio world and the people from DC were calling in so much requesting it that it broke into that major rotation and being a major station that has sister stations as well as other little stations that copied their playlists, our songs started charting because of the rotation play that we were getting and that piqued the interest of the MCAs of the world. And our final test was whether or not we could create something that was compatible for program directors who didn't want to just play an acapella, an original acapella song by some guys just out of college, if they needed more of a track to go in between the other tracks of their songs that they had in the playlist.

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So we came up with the If I Ever music version, and the label was enthralled by that one. And that's what pushed us over the top. And they gave us a record deal as opposed to a single.

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And then from there, we took off like crazy, man. It was just insane. And so even though I never fancied myself somebody that was going to be in some music career, there was a whole lot more people, more talented and probably more worthy and all that, who aspired to do it since day one.

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Here I am, just in the right place, hanging with Darnell and Fine Arts.

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Next thing you know, I'm on Arsenio and Jay Leno singing Comforter and stuff.

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Like, oh my God, yo.

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Yeah.

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You know, so that's how that kind of went.

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So baby, I'm yours if you want me.

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And if you want less.

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So baby, I'm yours if you need me, love you forever.

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If you want me, give me your love.

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Obviously the music industry has changed.

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For an aspiring young artist today, they're building a social media presence, it's all self-promotion.

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Yeah.

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That didn't exist then.

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Not at all.

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and have that glimpse and that taste of, we could do this, actually getting a record deal, a lot of closed doors in between.

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Like you said, you got disinfected, you got shown the door.

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What was that process like for you and the rest of the group?

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Were you really just zeroed in, knowing that you were going to be successful, or did doubt creep in along the way?

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Man, let me tell you something.

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Like, you know how some kind of way, like you'll see little babies playing in the playground and somebody will kick a kickball and it'll go over there by the baby, it'll bounce all around them.

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The baby is none the wiser, the ball never touches the baby. And I'm talking about it's like, if that thing had hit that baby, it'll knock his head off and the baby has no idea.

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Like, sometimes you're like, you're protected in your naivety, is my point. And like, we really thought, just because we had a song that was incredible to us at least.

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Like, yo, this is a joint.

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We thought just because that's what it was, that that should get a record deal and we should be successful in the music industry.

00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:03.079
But, and it was crazy because it really played out that way.

00:19:03.079 --> 00:19:09.480
But once we got in, we realized how stacked the odds were against what happened to us actually happening.

00:19:09.480 --> 00:19:14.039
Like that never, that's like a one in a billion thing that happened to us.

00:19:14.039 --> 00:19:40.880
And, but in our minds, of course it's going to happen. You hear the song, are you tripping? What? Not knowing that so many, if I can make a parallel, so many Michael Jordan like songs that are on the level of Michael Jordan get created that never see the basketball court, metaphorically speaking, never see the radio station. There's so many dope songs that y'all never have even never heard before, that y'all never hear, that are probably crazier than all the best songs you've ever heard, that will never see the light of day.

00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:54.240
Just because they are good don't mean there's so many things, so many intangibles, so many ancillary details and stuff that go into making that become entrenched in the industry and then charting and then actually becoming what the potential, you know, living up to potential.

00:19:54.240 --> 00:20:13.519
And so we actually had that happen to us and it was like, I mean, naivety, we thought it was supposed to happen. So when it happened, we just validated, like, of course, you know, yeah, you know. So we never even thought about having something waive our confidence because we had something so far beyond confidence at that moment. It was like, we just knew we were getting a deal.

00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:27.000
Like, it was not even like, we didn't put no thought into like, if no more. Like, we knew that first go around the Avenue of Americans when they closed the door, they were tripping in our mind. Oh, they tripping. You know what I'm saying? They'll see. And it did come around like that.

00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:32.799
A lot of those execs came up to us later on after we had got in the industry and we were part of the inside crew.

00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:34.720
Like, how come y'all never stopped by our offices?

00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:37.000
And I'm in my mind like, yo, we sang for you.

00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:38.880
You didn't wanna phone with a cigarette.

00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:41.680
Like in my mind, I didn't do it to them, but I could've.

00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:43.519
But yeah, let me know.

00:20:43.519 --> 00:20:46.799
Just, it was like, man, you can't even imagine.

00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:56.539
Like, you just- Well, the second thing that comes to mind is you have this experience and you again you get this glimpse of what stardom could be like How far did you let yourselves go with this idea of becoming an R&B star?

00:20:56.539 --> 00:21:19.240
We blew up instantly like we were on top fast like immediately soon as the song came out Like MCA Randy Phillips in particular who was a head of Gasoline Alley That was a joint venture with MCA, not a subsidiary, but he had enough power that he had all the connections with MTV over in Europe.

00:21:19.240 --> 00:21:21.960
And he was very well connected, especially Europe.

00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:29.720
So immediately, because we were his act, he sent us over to Europe to do the rigors, all the stuff you do to lay the foundation.

00:21:29.720 --> 00:21:30.720
But we went to Europe first.

00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:31.720
We didn't start in the United States.

00:21:31.720 --> 00:21:33.799
We were a U.S. group.

00:21:33.799 --> 00:21:39.759
Our song was taking off, but the physical entity known as Shy was over in Europe just doing it.

00:21:39.759 --> 00:21:43.160
So we were over there, it was just immediate smash.

00:21:43.160 --> 00:21:49.839
We were doing stuff like this show called Top of the Pops that was huge over there.

00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:51.640
We were immediately on that show.

00:21:51.640 --> 00:21:54.019
Over there, our credibility was just incredible.

00:21:54.019 --> 00:21:56.359
So we were just on a real fast track up.

00:21:56.359 --> 00:22:02.319
I mean, we were taking a Concorde jet from Paris to New York to do the first MTV Unplugged pilot.

00:22:02.319 --> 00:22:10.240
Like it was just a crazy ride, but in the United States, you know, like we were just a song, albeit a popular song.

00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:13.480
Nobody had seen us until we finally came back and shot videos.

00:22:13.480 --> 00:22:16.319
But the success of us was so meteoric and big.

00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:21.460
I was always who I was to me in my mind, especially having never aspired to do this in the first place.

00:22:21.460 --> 00:22:28.559
To me, I always looked at it as being in the bonus round of the video game, like living the, you know, like, Oh, I knew what I was in when it was happening.

00:22:28.559 --> 00:22:31.359
That never like made me become somebody else in that space.

00:22:31.359 --> 00:22:38.559
Like I was just G in that space realizing that just G is somebody too, but this space is some crazy stuff and I'm enjoying the ride.

00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:42.880
I never looked at myself as I am, whatever that is up there in that circle.

00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:44.480
You know, I was just enjoying it for what it was.

00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:47.599
So when the star dimmed a little bit, I was kind of cool with it.

00:22:47.599 --> 00:23:21.880
Cause I knew at some point you can't be in a bonus round in the video game, you know, like, so I was, you know, but I had fun on the ride, you know what I mean? But it never defined me because I was already somebody, which in that, that style of thinking, I think is what allowed me to go back to school, get my master's, my PhD, because I was already that, in my mind, I was that anyway, but I can't undo what happened to me in terms of being a part of Chi. People, you know, relate to me and recognize me as that in their mind, the people who know me from that, that's what I am to them. And so that's funny to me because I am that, but it's like, damn, that's crazy I'm that, you know.

00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:28.079
Well, there's definitely snippets of your story where it would appear to just be luck.

00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:41.759
Like somebody from the University of Housing just happened to put you together, but there's more to it than luck because the preparation, like you said, you're a seven, eight year old practicing hard. So you're able to step in when the opportunity comes along.

00:23:41.759 --> 00:24:26.400
I did draw upon that for sure. And thank God because there was a lot, there was a big curve with all those intricate harmonies. And then we got to do them live. And the only show Shy as an entity did before we got a record deal was that show. It wasn't like we did a whole lot of shows and got that in. And then we knew we did one show. Next thing you know, we get the deal. And the album was done in two weeks. So even though we sang those songs, and a lot of those songs happened to be songs that we had originally done in the sound rooms in the Fine Arts building, like the piano accompaniment, but they were basically acapella songs that we retrofitted a track to once the label told us we only had two weeks to do this album because they wanted to be able to sell If I Ever on the album for $20 as opposed to just a single.

00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:34.640
So they put pressure, but by default, we got a chance to have creative control and do our own album on a freshman effort.

00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:38.279
So that kind of like entrenched us as leave them alone, they could do their own project.

00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:39.480
So that stuff worked out.

00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:40.720
That thing was perfect too.

00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:44.680
I mean, Boyz II Men kind of led the way, but you've got Shy, you've got Guy.

00:24:44.680 --> 00:24:48.279
I mean, this is like a golden era of art.

00:24:48.279 --> 00:24:49.599
It was serious.

00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:54.039
And you all hit right there, not at the top, because you helped kind of bring it further.

00:24:54.039 --> 00:24:57.160
You ratcheted it up from where it was to another level.

00:24:57.160 --> 00:24:58.759
But man, the timing was perfect.

00:24:58.759 --> 00:25:04.400
And hip hop was like parallel to it, you know, in this version, in like golden era phase, like during that time period.

00:25:04.400 --> 00:25:07.440
That was just, so they ran like right with each other.

00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:08.960
They like sharpened each other still.

00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:11.720
And then a lot of it kind of conflated after a while.

00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:15.359
Like the award shows, didn't even know how to label it after a while.

00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:17.039
Obviously the group had lasting success.

00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:18.039
You weren't just a one and done.

00:25:18.039 --> 00:25:19.880
There wasn't just one CD.

00:25:19.880 --> 00:25:24.200
This is back in the era of BMG and Columbia House.

00:25:24.200 --> 00:25:29.240
So I ordered all the Shy CDs and eventually they stopped coming.

00:25:29.240 --> 00:25:33.640
As with everything, the popularity peaks and that slows down.

00:25:33.640 --> 00:25:35.319
It changes, tastes change.

00:25:35.319 --> 00:25:38.500
People move on as artists, maybe you change.

00:25:38.500 --> 00:25:49.259
So from this meteoric rise to a now what, what was that process like going from R&B stardom to the season after that?

00:25:49.259 --> 00:25:56.299
Yeah, well, you know, like I saw the handwriting on the wall in a couple of different scenarios, like litmus test type scenarios.

00:25:56.299 --> 00:25:59.339
I was like scratching my head like, ah, that don't seem right.

00:25:59.339 --> 00:26:53.799
Like certain reactions, much like some guys, I guess you would know, like, when you've been with maybe a female for a while and you have a certain reaction for certain things that you would do, and then maybe like some time into it, you do a thing and then the reaction is lukewarm to kind of non-existence for something that used to be like, yo, you know, so you start seeing like, you know, that kind of stuff started happening internally as well as the label and that kind of thing kind of had an effect on the creativity as well as just lining up the ducks, logistics, all of it. It was so many different things that used to be seamless and streamlined that were now just all over the place and a problem that used to be some things that were problems weren't even things to consider as problems before that, is what I'm saying. So it was compounded by a lot of other things. And, you know, like you said, things were on their course. We had some more stuff left in us, but the internal dynamics kind of curved after what happened.

00:26:53.799 --> 00:26:56.759
Carl wanted to do his own thing and, you know, off the success, a lot of stuff.

00:26:56.759 --> 00:27:00.079
And he actually physically goes to words to, If I Were For The Love.

00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:06.180
So he was ready to kind of like take that momentum and, you know, keep going with it as a writer, producer guy.

00:27:06.180 --> 00:27:08.480
That's what he fancied, which had a disproportionate curve.

00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:11.960
Like, you know, that his thing was going up, I was going down in that regard.

00:27:11.960 --> 00:27:15.539
Like the more he pulled away the people, and he had the writing credit.

00:27:15.539 --> 00:27:31.599
People didn't believe that the other three of us had the talent, which we did, because truth be told, Mark and Darnell, musically, were more musically inclined and had a lot more to do with the musical stuff in our shot, as well as the harmonies and arrangements.

00:27:31.599 --> 00:27:36.240
So they didn't get the props during the time because they were team players, and Carl kind of had more savvy.

00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:41.119
He had a lot of stuff that he knew to write down and document and show paper trail for him.

00:27:41.119 --> 00:27:45.019
You know us, we were just creating. So we got caught up in the naivety in that moment, too.

00:27:45.019 --> 00:27:49.259
So it kind of bit us on the butt later on when we needed to go for self. We couldn't, we didn't have leverage.

00:27:49.259 --> 00:27:51.259
So time went past.

00:27:51.259 --> 00:27:53.059
Darnell and I kept the group going.

00:27:53.059 --> 00:27:57.940
We had a few different members come in because after a while Mark was no longer in the group either.

00:27:57.940 --> 00:27:59.779
It was just me and Darnell, the originals.

00:27:59.779 --> 00:28:02.660
And we started doing shows over in Germany as a two-man group.

00:28:02.660 --> 00:28:04.660
Germany didn't care if it was four or two at the time.

00:28:04.660 --> 00:28:06.660
They just wanted to hear them songs.

00:28:06.660 --> 00:28:10.660
And because Darnell kind of like did the hook, and that sound was still generated.

00:28:10.660 --> 00:28:17.660
And, you know, I got the gruff voice, you know, and then the whole little thing behind Garfield or whatever that just happened with me personally.

00:28:17.660 --> 00:28:22.660
That has a little, you know, social capital built into it, a little leverage going over there for people to see.

00:28:22.660 --> 00:28:24.660
I could rely on that a little bit.

00:28:24.660 --> 00:28:26.339
And man, we just did our thing.

00:28:26.339 --> 00:28:32.900
We crafted a little two-man chemistry, which we already had, but we kind of blew it up just so we could make sure our shows were more interesting.

00:28:32.900 --> 00:28:34.059
And man, we did that.

00:28:34.059 --> 00:28:40.500
We were doing these two-man shows, and then we finally started getting the lead, which the promoters of the United States were hearing about, what you mean, shot performing?

00:28:40.500 --> 00:28:41.940
And it was just two of them, you know what I'm saying?

00:28:41.940 --> 00:28:44.299
And like, yeah, you can get over it, you killed it.

00:28:44.299 --> 00:28:51.599
So we started getting some shows, United States, this two-man, and then we internally felt like, it's cool doing these two-man shows.

00:28:51.599 --> 00:28:55.079
It's fun, because that's my guy, my best guy in the world.

00:28:55.079 --> 00:28:58.700
But the thrill of having that four-part harmony, we started missing that.

00:28:58.700 --> 00:29:15.380
So we ended up going back to the well, and those same dudes from the movie Lean on Me from Eastside High School, we got back to Riff, who are now, a lot of those members had gone to this group called Men of Vision, who did a couple of R&B songs, Housekeeper, a couple of R&B songs that people know of.

00:29:15.380 --> 00:29:18.380
And we got G Fly that was directly in MenderVision.

00:29:18.380 --> 00:29:24.380
And then Dwayne, one of the guys from Riff from MenderVision, and now they've been rocking with us for over a decade now.

00:29:24.380 --> 00:29:26.380
We've been doing four-man shows.

00:29:26.380 --> 00:29:29.380
We've got a whole lot of shows all the way through February of next year.

00:29:29.380 --> 00:29:32.380
It's booked already. It's just been amazing.

00:29:32.380 --> 00:29:34.380
So we've still just been keeping the torch going.

00:29:34.380 --> 00:29:36.380
People are loving it, giving us the love.

00:29:36.380 --> 00:29:37.380
And so it's just been great.

00:29:37.380 --> 00:30:21.680
So my daughter is a vocal performance major. She's soon to be a junior. And we did an interview and she pointed out something I never really recognized that athletes and artists are more like different and the competitive nature, the will to hone your craft, you know, whether that's Kobe Bryant in a gym shooting 1000 shots or a vocalist going over a riff 100 times or whatever. And I see the parallels for most athletes eventually retire or their careers cut short by injury, whatever, but they kind of reach a point where they realize that, you know, I'm not having the success I once had. It sounds like you kind of went through that to a certain extent, but then going international maybe brought the popularity back on the upswing.

00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:26.640
Was there ever a point where you felt like, I don't know if I can keep doing this anymore.

00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:30.319
Now, I couldn't even think that because we knew we had classic songs.

00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:40.240
And what it really was, it's just like, this sounds crazy, but I knew, like, okay, so there was a time when our star was dimming and our trajectory was going down.

00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:48.240
And I felt it, it was, you know, we weren't getting the shows, because we weren't old school enough to be a thing yet, like a commodity in that way yet.

00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:52.119
We were like artists that were supposed to be current that just weren't getting the relevancy that we were supposed to be getting.

00:30:52.119 --> 00:30:57.160
So that negative curve at the time, I just knew it had to, you know, it was like a bubble almost.

00:30:57.160 --> 00:30:58.160
It had to run its course.

00:30:58.160 --> 00:31:02.880
And then when time went past, I knew there was going to be like a threshold moment because our music was classic.

00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:08.759
Like if you look on YouTube, the Vivo was like, at the time, like 50 million, like people were still interested in it.

00:31:08.759 --> 00:31:40.000
Like that 90s music never really ran its full course before the new stuff came in. It was kind of like it was still kind of there, but the new stuff was there too, taking precedent. And so just like a stock, a long range, long game stock, all of a sudden the window kind of opened up for now the 90s was all of a sudden like how we used to look at the 70s. It was like a chic retro kind of thing to kind of be associated with because it hosted so many good memories. And there's like, it's the word dessert. People usually don't have a negative connotation in their brain when they hear that word.

00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:41.000
It's like, oh, yeah.

00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:44.000
And so, like, the 90s R&B was like, oh, yeah.

00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:52.000
And so now that we were old school enough to be a commodity as an old school thing, traction picked up everywhere because now it was hip to go back.

00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:58.000
It was like to go get like a retro kind of thing in the 90s, which wasn't so far removed.

00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:06.839
And sound wise and sonically, it's still, even though it's different, there's still enough relatability in it where it's not so old school that people can't even relate to it.

00:32:06.839 --> 00:32:07.839
Like, what is that?

00:32:07.839 --> 00:32:10.720
Like a payphone or something.

00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:15.799
As Garfield talks, you can't help but notice that smooth sound, but there's more to it than that.

00:32:15.799 --> 00:32:17.240
He's a teacher, too.

00:32:17.240 --> 00:32:26.259
He frequently speaks in metaphor, and he tells his stories with an eloquence and an elegance that makes you want to keep listening, like a really good college professor.

00:32:26.259 --> 00:32:27.980
And there's a reason for that.

00:32:27.980 --> 00:32:34.099
He wasn't content with just simply being a founding member of one of the most iconic vocal groups of the 90s.

00:32:34.099 --> 00:32:41.099
Along the way, he managed to work in first a master's degree and eventually a PhD to become Dr. Bright.

00:32:41.099 --> 00:32:47.900
It's almost unfair that one person can have so much talent, ability, and drive all wrapped up into one package.

00:32:47.900 --> 00:32:57.400
But for Dr. Garfield Bright, it was just the next logical step on a growth journey that has seen him perform around the world while eventually becoming a recognized scholar too.

00:32:57.400 --> 00:33:03.319
It's still like some stuff that people hear their sample, oh I know that was who sung that.

00:33:03.319 --> 00:33:04.319
Oh I thought they was singing that.

00:33:04.319 --> 00:33:05.319
Oh they sampled that?

00:33:05.319 --> 00:33:08.599
Or you know it's like a thing like, oh so that's who was singing that.

00:33:08.599 --> 00:33:09.599
I thought that was Boyce.

00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:10.599
Oh that was Shy.

00:33:10.599 --> 00:33:13.119
It's a thing like, oh I miss this music.

00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:17.440
And you know and it really is a different kind of thing because of the harmonies, the group dynamic.

00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:19.960
Like today, you'd be hard-pressed to find a group.

00:33:19.960 --> 00:33:35.880
And just all of those, and just like you said, the vocal gymnastics, we really would sit there for hours and hours and practice blends and tones and things that now a vocoder or just something like an auto-tune could just easily just take care of, mitigate your lack of talent.

00:33:35.880 --> 00:33:38.799
We used to have to have a lot of talent in different areas.

00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:41.920
Like, is this different recording a song, that kind of talent?

00:33:41.920 --> 00:33:43.519
Because their tone's got to be on a certain way.

00:33:43.519 --> 00:33:46.720
You can't really be singing full out doing background harmonies.

00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:49.319
You got to get a texture in there and layer on them.

00:33:49.319 --> 00:33:54.079
And you kind of like got to sing certain parts, stack them four times, which means there can't be no flange.

00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:57.319
So you got to sing it the same way four times to get that nice full.

00:33:57.319 --> 00:34:00.960
I guess a lot of talent in just recording outside of singing live.

00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:15.119
And you got to kind of be ambidextrous with your skill set, have a bag that goes underrated because people just see the finished product. But now, it's so quick fix and everybody has in the machinery and toolery and the platform to create something, mix it and put it out.

00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:29.480
The quality control might not be as deep as it was back when we didn't have all those amenities that would enhance the vocals. It made us become artists for real. Even if we didn't realize that's what we were, we wanted to sound a certain way, you got to put a certain kind of work in to get that sound.

00:34:29.480 --> 00:34:34.199
You can't just make that sound happen, especially in the analog days when it was cut and tape literally.

00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:37.000
So, you know, like shit.

00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:38.000
Right.

00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:47.599
So, so your story really is disparate in so many ways because an R&B artist isn't moving in the same direction that someone earning a PhD is.

00:34:47.599 --> 00:34:57.119
I mean, you're touring, you're singing, you're doing the things that stars do, but you're also still actively pursuing higher education.

00:34:57.119 --> 00:35:00.679
So talk me through that side of you and your personality.

00:35:00.679 --> 00:35:02.920
I know that was, that was sound crazy.

00:35:02.920 --> 00:35:10.440
When I hear you say it, it sounds like ridiculous, but just for me, I'm a, I'm a nationally inquisitive person.

00:35:10.440 --> 00:35:15.000
My father and mother were in a national education association and the Alabama Education Association.

00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:19.000
I started reading at an early age and all that kind of stuff.

00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:22.000
So, you know, I was always touted as being like a smart guy.

00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:29.000
And so you go into, you know, you fulfill that prophecy when you start hearing things at an early age enough, you kind of grow into it, especially when you get the support.

00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:31.000
And so I was always a good student.

00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:32.000
I was always a good athlete.

00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:33.000
And you need a good grade.

00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:35.000
And it was never a problem for me to make those grades.

00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:36.000
So I was like, cool.

00:35:36.000 --> 00:36:05.280
So I always got something out of putting my effort into school outside of just putting effort in but as I matured into it I Felt like I had a standard for myself in terms of how I want to purport myself and like be seen And I wanted that gray matter part of me to be something that people noted like it's not just the other side You know people give me credit for being a handsome guy that kind of thing, but I didn't want to be shallow You know I didn't want to just be one dimensional. I didn't want to be a big Jethro walking around.

00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:29.159
You know what I mean? So I really took pride into anything that made me think, anything that I would do to make others think and create dialogue that were interesting and one of a kind. I took a success about the same way I approach harmonies in that real curious way and I had this like obsessive compulsion to create a harmony. I would also have like an obsessive compulsion to distill, like to answer questions and to distill thought.

00:36:29.159 --> 00:36:33.360
Like from anything, I will create questions to try to like find deeper answers.

00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:36.519
Even my cognition, like a metacognitive thing, like why am I thinking?

00:36:36.519 --> 00:36:39.639
You know, like I was always trying to get to the source of like, where did language come from?

00:36:39.639 --> 00:36:41.480
Like, what is water actually?

00:36:41.480 --> 00:36:44.119
I was always into a different mode of thinking.

00:36:44.119 --> 00:36:51.679
And so for me getting a PhD was just me and my trajectory, my matriculation, just trying to get a terminal degree because that was the highest you can go.

00:36:51.679 --> 00:37:08.320
I'm going to challenge my intelligence factor to see if I can hang. And I didn't do it necessarily for reasons of having people call me Dr. Bright or anything like that. It wasn't for those vain status reasons. A lot of people see me walking the streets would never even know the way I am.

00:37:08.320 --> 00:37:35.199
But in terms of my gray matter of mind and the concepts that I want to deal with, because I'm always looking to explain what's around me. And if I can get a better, you know, nomenclature, a better handle on how to express it, you know, the idea chamber can open up and wrap itself around a higher concept. So I've always been one of those people that wanted to know more. I'm not satisfied with what we know now, and I still am not, even with a PhD. But I didn't do it to, you know, like I said, to be some kind of commercially viable dude in that way.

00:37:35.199 --> 00:37:41.820
It was just really, I was just seeking more knowledge and I found, I landed to a spot and I kept it going and I found out that I was good at it.

00:37:41.820 --> 00:37:49.420
I had a 4.03 GPA, my dissertation, won an award for outstanding dissertation, so did my master's thesis.

00:37:49.420 --> 00:38:07.000
And I found out, you know, you find things out about yourself under that type of duress because it really is. You alienate family, friends, people don't understand the time that you put into it. They think, Oh, you can make time for things you want to make time for. Like usually that rule holds true, but in this situation it dominates your existence if you want to be good at it.

00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:51.920
And you know, the conferences, you know, and accountability, ethic all the different stuff that keep you up at night, just the organizational aspect of it. And then the people aspect of it, like, you know, especially when I had to pick my committee, like the politics aspect of picking a committee outweighs by far the content that you think you're talking about in terms of what's important in that moment. So little things like that, how do you know that coming into the, you know, the ways that I grew in terms of my, my PhD are immeasurable in terms of like how you see it manifested on the outside in my everyday space. People think you get PhD, you teach college, you can get paid. Like me, there were a lot of life things, just like how sports, team sports was a metaphor for like life and using your team and delegating responsibility. And it's the same thing in a PhD and a master's program.

00:38:51.920 --> 00:38:56.440
If you're in one that's as good as like trial by fire and there's no easy way to get through it. So.

00:38:56.440 --> 00:38:59.880
I can certainly relate. I was a first generation college student myself.

00:38:59.880 --> 00:39:02.719
And you get that bachelor's and you're like, all right, what's next?

00:39:02.719 --> 00:39:05.480
And then you do that and you get the master's and all right, what's next?

00:39:05.480 --> 00:39:09.440
And it just always felt like if it's there, I want to chase it. Right.

00:39:09.440 --> 00:39:11.599
If I can chase it and I can grow in the process.

00:39:11.599 --> 00:39:15.039
And what a lot of people don't understand about a PhD is it's not about breadth at all.

00:39:15.039 --> 00:39:16.039
It's about depth.

00:39:16.039 --> 00:39:21.880
It's about getting really, really dialed into one specific thing.

00:39:21.880 --> 00:39:23.159
And I think you hit the nail on the head.

00:39:23.159 --> 00:39:32.400
I tell doctoral students all the time, the hardest part is getting your five committee members in the room at the same time for your meetings, because that is a challenge.

00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:36.360
And then getting them to return your writing with some sort of- Yeah.

00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:37.960
And to even deal with each other, like that part.

00:39:37.960 --> 00:39:41.599
Like knowing enough about them to know if they like each other or not.

00:39:41.599 --> 00:39:42.099
Yeah.

00:39:42.099 --> 00:39:46.099
Before you go get them just on paper because they're the best methodologists, or they're the best...

00:39:46.099 --> 00:39:50.400
You gotta be a GM! You gotta be a GM in that situation. You really do.

00:39:50.400 --> 00:39:52.800
Never heard it described that way, but you're absolutely right.

00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:55.599
You gotta be a GM, man. Quit playing.

00:39:55.599 --> 00:39:57.800
I can't get it, for sure.

00:39:57.800 --> 00:40:05.119
So, you're also... your creative pursuits spill over into authorship. Tell me about your book, Lotus 3013.

00:40:05.119 --> 00:40:07.480
Yeah, Lotus 3013, I'm proud of it.

00:40:07.480 --> 00:40:13.920
And because I'm such an old school dude in terms of the technology stuff, like I never, like I know my Mac back and forth.

00:40:13.920 --> 00:40:18.960
Now, my Mac, I'm good on the Mac, but just in general, as a techie, I'm whack.

00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:23.239
And so I need a website built because I'm not selling it through Amazon.

00:40:23.239 --> 00:40:25.599
I'm gonna sell it basically to my Instagram followers.

00:40:25.599 --> 00:40:30.679
I got enough followers, I think that as an audience, that could be enough people to kind of like, check it out.

00:40:30.679 --> 00:40:32.119
And then after a while I'll put it on Amazon.

00:40:32.119 --> 00:40:42.920
But it's a book, if you can mix Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, and like Beach Street, which was a hip hop movie back in the 90s, or late 80s rather, those three, you'll get Lotus.

00:40:42.920 --> 00:40:55.320
In the year 3013, hip hop is believed to be a white cultural invention, with no strands, it's like totally a historical, it's a dystopian book, Afro-futuristic type of thing.

00:40:55.320 --> 00:41:08.860
And it's a guy named Master Set, who's the forces of evil, the Settilians, and he really wants to trap people into a perpetual present so he can create a narrative that they keep reinventing, keep repopulating, keep reiterating.

00:41:08.860 --> 00:41:12.280
But in their mind, there's the illusion of futureness happening.

00:41:12.280 --> 00:41:17.039
But he's got their mind in such a trap, they keep repeating the present over and over again.

00:41:17.039 --> 00:41:34.559
And in that present, the relevancy of Black creativity is at a low point. And there's a high penile system, and there's a lot to it, man. It's a real interesting read, I'll say the least. It's fantasy-based, like I said, but it's not too out there with the powers. It's kind of believable.

00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:42.159
And it's a pretty good book. And my sons, who are Grammy-nominated producers, did the score.

00:41:42.159 --> 00:41:44.599
Like, I have an e-book, and I have an audio book.

00:41:44.599 --> 00:41:50.199
And the audio book is like, you know, like just in scenes, where the music comes inside of the scenes and builds the momentum and the mood.

00:41:50.199 --> 00:41:51.679
I have that in this audio book, man.

00:41:51.679 --> 00:41:54.079
And it feels like a movie, you know.

00:41:54.079 --> 00:42:02.440
So once I get the right check, I'll just create that website, where once they buy it, the link can get to the right person without them passing it to other people.

00:42:02.440 --> 00:42:04.400
I don't know how to do all that, but I need that.

00:42:04.400 --> 00:42:06.079
That's all I'm waiting on.

00:42:06.079 --> 00:42:09.920
Definitely put links and your socials and stuff in the notes.

00:42:09.920 --> 00:42:18.199
So what's been the mountaintop for you through all this journey, whether academia, whether R&B stardom, what was the high point?

00:42:18.199 --> 00:42:28.320
Man, for me, like the meta, when I'm up close to myself traveling through life, I'm not registering events or things that happen in terms of the high or lowness of them.

00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:32.719
I'm in the moment in a problem solution kind of mode, maybe something like that.

00:42:32.719 --> 00:42:38.599
And so I would tend to remember how things feel rather than remember what the actual events that I went through were.

00:42:38.599 --> 00:42:45.280
Like I remember their range of, or the amalgam of different things that I felt, but I can't remember what they were tied to specifically sometimes.

00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:52.239
And so when I get asked that kind of question, it forces me to go back to a specific time frame.

00:42:52.239 --> 00:42:54.800
And I'm whack when it comes to recording life like that.

00:42:54.800 --> 00:42:57.719
Like, it's always right now for me.

00:42:57.719 --> 00:43:09.159
Like, I have future feelings, but I've been in my life and how I've lived so far, it seemed like no matter what I've tried to do, I've always been carried to a place and I just freely let it happen and then I just make the best of it.

00:43:09.159 --> 00:43:13.800
And next thing you know, here I am in some high level of some space that I'm never asked to be in.

00:43:13.800 --> 00:43:17.039
So I'm not scared to let life take me places, I guess.

00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:25.000
And because I've been successful at it, I now own that and be like, I don't want to like try to like control my thing too much.

00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:25.840
You know what I'm saying?

00:43:25.840 --> 00:43:34.599
So because I think like that, the moments that are probably high moments, which of course happened, my sons and my children and things like that, I'm getting married.

00:43:34.599 --> 00:43:38.440
But the way I recorded them in the moment was just a part of this trajectory.

00:43:38.440 --> 00:43:40.000
That's all good, all special.

00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:45.000
Like, this is part of the finding. I'm living. I'm going through. Because I was in low moments.

00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:49.000
I was homeless before. But even in them times, man, I felt like Rocky or something.

00:43:49.000 --> 00:43:54.000
Like I had a feeling of like, like I always feel protected. I don't feel like nothing's really ever really going bad.

00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:59.000
I happen to be to a point that I can't handle it. I just got to go through it.

00:43:59.000 --> 00:44:29.360
And I always feel like I'm a land on my feet. So I don't let myself take it too seriously be even if it's something that in that moment It's like this hurts this sucks But I but I know there's gonna be a day I'm gonna be back on top because the nature of universes is a way energy travels like in wave forms So there's an arch, you know There's a hot crest and then there's a trial to it all and then there's a mean And if I could stay closer to the mean even in my up downs, I should be cool You know saying so I just try to you know, I just try to do that if I can.

00:44:29.360 --> 00:44:35.820
So I've done a lot of interviews of high achievers, Olympians, NFL athletes, NBA artists.

00:44:35.820 --> 00:44:53.000
And the thing that consistently stands out to me is, it's almost the curse of the high achiever is, you're so focused on the achievement or doing your best in the moment that it's hard to take time to fully appreciate what you're doing, what you're achieving or accomplishing.

00:44:53.000 --> 00:45:04.059
And so I think for the listeners, a lot of times it's valuable to hear that if there's a regret for a lot of high achievers, it's that they didn't take just that moment to stop and smell the roses.

00:45:04.059 --> 00:45:17.559
When your group was awarded new artist of the year or when you're touring the world, there's always this drive to be like, you're going to compare yourself to another group or you're trying to meet sales records or whatever.

00:45:17.559 --> 00:45:27.800
And sometimes it's a thief that robs you of the joy of recognizing what we are in the midst of right now, what we are accomplishing.

00:45:27.800 --> 00:45:29.880
I was like that even in my educational side.

00:45:29.880 --> 00:45:35.239
When I got my master's in African American studies, I never took my diploma out the bank.

00:45:35.239 --> 00:46:37.840
I never hung it up anyway because in my mind, that's not where I was trying to end up. I was going to get this PhD, and I needed to get through that phase to go to the next. So in my mind, that was like the baby step, like, yeah, okay, cool. You know what I mean? But in a lot of people's mind, like, yo, bro, and so I've always just kind of been like that. I don't know. And it's not like a thing of where I'm devaluing it, where I'm looking at it, even the condescending, anything like that. It's just that I'm so on a quest in a lot of ways that I'm not ever satiated by some plateau part of the travel. Like, that's a point. Like, I remember when we got our Image Award, I was happy as hell that night. And I was mad that they only gave us one trophy for the group. I was like, are y'all crazy? And so, because I was so happy about it, they was like, all right, G, you get to keep it. So I still had the Image Award. And then we got a platinum plaque. When we first, I had seen so many dope artists that I looked up to, like Teddy Riley and people like that, with platinum plaques in their homes. And I was like, yeah, I want one of those. And then when we finally got a platinum flag, I felt validated. Like, that's something.

00:46:37.840 --> 00:47:01.199
I'm looking at my name on this platinum, like, I did that. You know, those are moments. When we did Budweiser Superfest, the first night on tour, on an official tour with a tour bus and the whole routing system and the magazines that they give you with all your tour dates in them with all the ancillary detail like the tour, like going on my first real tour and I was one of the stars of a tour that was dope, you know what I mean?

00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:07.400
Like that. There's a lot of high moments, but they're all part of just a high continuum.

00:47:07.400 --> 00:47:12.000
Like I say, they're all part of this thing, if I can call it that, the bonus round of the video game time.

00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:24.960
Like that. And in that time, there were a lot of details I remember, and there was a lot of stuff I don't because just the overall feeling of that was, wow, this is great, but I know this is not life, real.

00:47:24.960 --> 00:47:28.400
This is not going to be this way forever, but this is great.

00:47:28.400 --> 00:47:31.960
And because of that, when it wasn't like this forever, I'm cool.

00:47:31.960 --> 00:47:41.000
I can adjust because I saw that in that way for what it was, you know, but I don't remember all the, like when people start telling us little things, like, remember we was at the session?

00:47:41.000 --> 00:47:42.199
I was like, oh yeah, huh?

00:47:42.199 --> 00:47:43.159
Oh yeah.

00:47:43.159 --> 00:47:47.199
Like, you know, I don't, I didn't record it like that going through it at all.

00:47:47.199 --> 00:47:53.400
It's hard to let things like that register because you almost feel like it's going to somehow dampen your momentum.

00:47:53.400 --> 00:47:59.880
Like if I just get complacent in the here and now, then I'm not chasing after what could be my bigger destiny.

00:47:59.880 --> 00:48:02.159
Man, I was just trying to keep up, forget chasing.

00:48:02.159 --> 00:48:13.719
I was just trying to, like, life was going so fast in those moments, and we were expected to do so much in so little time and to be so on in such a fabricated kind of way.

00:48:13.719 --> 00:48:24.199
That thank God we have some talent because when you go on a tour bus after the show and you wake up at five in the morning in the next city, and then by 6.30 in the morning, you sing an acapella for all the people driving to work.

00:48:24.199 --> 00:49:10.519
You just woke up out the tour bus bed and you ain't go to the hotel yet, and you singing at the top of your lungs at 6 30 in the morning, and then you got to go to a meet and greet, then you got to go to this, and then sound check, and then do the show, and then go to the after party, get on the tool bus, and then be back up at six o'clock in the morning for the radio. When you got like straight like almost a year's worth of just that over and over and over and over and over, the reality of that style of being sets in. A lot of people on the outside have no idea like that type of Commitment and just to just to stay afloat like let alone be good at it Like just to be like I like in that part of the industry You know in terms of the complexities of just just catching up to hockey. I often ask people Hey, man, what you think is the most difficult sport to play like to Matt?

00:49:10.519 --> 00:49:39.800
What which set of skill sets you know is the most difficult to master just to be able to play, let alone be good, but just to play. And I always end up, my contribution to that is always hockey. The ice skating that you have to be able to do, the dexterity with that puck and that stick, the toughness you have to have just to be on the ice where people ready to just beat you up at all times, and then all the other things, that master skater, that's a hard sport to just be able to play, let alone then with those skills be good at it.

00:49:39.800 --> 00:49:42.199
And so I look at being in the industry like that.

00:49:42.199 --> 00:49:46.320
Like there's a lot of things you got to be able to manage just to stay afloat.

00:49:46.320 --> 00:49:51.320
Because if you just willy nilly, you will be dehydrated and just running to the ground by the scheduling of it all.

00:49:51.320 --> 00:49:56.079
If you let yourself get too high or too down, your adrenaline keeps getting emptied every day on that clip.

00:49:56.079 --> 00:49:58.320
You're going to just, that's going to exhaust you.

00:49:58.320 --> 00:50:03.599
Like if you're drinking too much along with all that other stuff and doing whatever, like you're going to run yourself raggedy.

00:50:03.599 --> 00:50:31.000
And as a young person, you ain't even thinking about nothing like that because you think you're young and everything works. So all this, it's a lot going on that the people who enjoy the artists don't get to really see in terms of what they go through to stay just on par. So yeah, I was catching up, man. We was never ahead of the game. I was always trying to swim and catch up to where I was supposed to be. Yeah, understood. So that's a great segue into one of the last questions here.

00:50:31.000 --> 00:50:34.000
What advice would you have given younger you?

00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:41.000
If you could go back in time and speak some sage wisdom into seven, eight-year-old Garfield, what would you tell him?

00:50:41.000 --> 00:50:44.000
Well, that guy was too young for what I want to tell him.

00:50:44.000 --> 00:51:15.000
Maybe that Garfield that was like 17, right before, maybe a couple of years before he's going to get a record deal, just to let him know that, yes, man, this is the music business. That business aspect of the game, if at all, you can be as well-versed as possible in what royalties look like, publishing split. What's the proper gauge for what a manager should get in terms of percent when they come at you with... If you could just kind of situate yourself and steep yourself into the body of knowledge that speaks to the record business.

00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:22.000
Before you sign a contract or get faced with the prospect of signing a contract, then you'll make a more informed decision.

00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:40.199
You might even have some kind of angle that will allow you to just, you know, kind of mitigate all the trauma that's going to be behind you realizing that as soon as you give birth to what you think is a piece of art, it becomes product and you become a product maker from an artist to a product maker. And the product maker is owned.

00:51:40.199 --> 00:51:48.679
The artist owns themselves in their mind, but they're attached to this product that monetarily speaking is part of a bottom line, ergo you are type, you own.

00:51:48.679 --> 00:52:02.039
Like so if you can process all that in advance and to have a way to kind of mitigate that, one, safe face when you go to sleep at night, knowing that you can still face yourself without selling yourself out to the demands of what this product is making you do.

00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:06.519
But then also just to know the ins and outs of what's like knowing your rights.

00:52:06.519 --> 00:52:20.679
When somebody pulls you over, if you know your rights, you're going to be, if you can say, excuse me, officer, you don't have reasonable, articulable suspicion. You can't get my ID. If I'm just a passenger in the car, if I haven't been observed doing a crime or running from the scene, or like, you know, like if you know certain things, the cops have to just leave you alone.

00:52:20.679 --> 00:52:45.239
If you don't certain things come into a negotiation with a contract off the top about what your royalties and your splits are, you'll see BS as soon as it presents itself. You can get that out the way immediately and then they have to come with something more respectable. Like those kinds of things. I would tell my younger self, become more business savvy at an earlier age and move like that anytime you're in a corporate or any kind of capitalistic venture because it's going to behoove you to be that way.

00:52:45.239 --> 00:52:49.159
Yeah, that's powerful. Part of you is so excited to jump into this.

00:52:49.159 --> 00:52:51.079
Yeah, I got a deal. You know, I got a record deal.

00:52:51.079 --> 00:52:51.480
You know what I'm saying?

00:52:51.480 --> 00:52:52.519
I got my artist, man.

00:52:52.519 --> 00:52:53.000
What?

00:52:53.000 --> 00:52:53.840
I want to label.

00:52:53.840 --> 00:52:54.719
What?

00:52:54.719 --> 00:52:56.360
You know, but.

00:52:56.360 --> 00:52:59.880
And Predators smell that coming, so they want to take advantage of you.

00:52:59.880 --> 00:53:03.639
It's already asymmetrical off the top because they come into you with the contract.

00:53:03.639 --> 00:53:11.239
You have to then take that and get the best out of it by getting a lawyer, attorney to try to just milk something for you to create any kind of win-win on that.

00:53:11.239 --> 00:53:14.599
But that's skewed in their direction from the beginning because they presenting it.

00:53:14.599 --> 00:53:20.000
You don't come to them with a contract talking about, let's do a record deal. As an artist, you come with your own contract.

00:53:20.000 --> 00:54:08.380
I get this what I want. You know what I mean? I ask this of all my guests. I love music and the emotions that it can represent. What song would you pick as the soundtrack of the montage of your life and why? I'll pick, it's two of them that go together together and I can't avoid them. The first one, made a voice by Herbie Hancock, V.S.O.P. Quintet, that one. And then by the middle of it, it'd have to segue into Giant Steps by John Coltrane. That's what that would have to be. And then I might just, you know, I might have to like end with Naima by Coltrane. Like that's like, that melody is so melancholy, but it's so rich and reflective and retrospective.

00:54:08.380 --> 00:54:12.079
Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do.

00:54:12.079 --> 00:54:15.639
Those notes make you kind of like think and like look back on what you've accomplished.

00:54:15.639 --> 00:54:20.360
Those three songs, and I'm, you know, and that's all jazz, but that shows you how dominant jazz is.

00:54:20.360 --> 00:54:22.440
Cause I love Stevie Wonder, that's my favorite guy.

00:54:22.440 --> 00:54:51.500
And I could have picked all kinds of songs by him or Donnie Hathaway or Marvin Gaye, but for some reason, like Miles and Train and Ahmad Jamal and Stanley Terentine and just Thelonious, just all of those guys, the spiritual stuff coming out of that instrument that they do, man, it just hits me. So yeah, Herbie with Main Voyage, then John Coltrane with Giant Steps, and then I would close out with Naima.

00:54:51.500 --> 00:54:57.920
Nice. So I dropped these into a Spotify shared playlist that has all of my guests' songs.

00:54:57.920 --> 00:55:01.960
So the Becoming Undone soundtrack will include those three cuts.

00:55:01.960 --> 00:55:08.800
Yay! Yeah. So last one, what for you remains undone?

00:55:08.800 --> 00:55:14.760
What for me remains undone? Oh, man, every day, you never arrive, man.

00:55:14.760 --> 00:55:20.519
You can't, if you arrive, you're just so self-centered if you think you've arrived.

00:55:20.519 --> 00:55:25.079
Because life is always presenting things that I'm trying to master, man.

00:55:25.079 --> 00:55:39.000
I really think there's so much more to this experience than the structures that we've been in in terms of our formal education and what's been placed on our radar in terms of what people tell us is important.

00:55:39.000 --> 00:55:43.639
And we have so many more powers that are in our being as humans.

00:55:43.639 --> 00:55:58.039
And I mean, literally, like, there's like certain things that I'm starting to learn now with tempo and pace of conversation and what people, you can inject ideas in people's idea pool as they're speaking, if you find out the cadence and when they do a pause, they're searching.

00:55:58.039 --> 00:56:08.000
If you can kind of like inject the idea, yours will be more glossy to them and they'll pick you. You can control conversations mentally by certain things, but you can never express to them that you did that because you'll lose momentum.

00:56:08.000 --> 00:56:19.000
But there's a lot to the power. There's a lot of magnetic power that we have and a lot of stuff to us that if we listen to ourselves and stuff, we can learn. And I'm so intrigued by that aspect of how to do human.

00:56:19.000 --> 00:56:24.000
I think that we needed to pay way more attention to that stuff. And I'm a PhD.

00:56:24.000 --> 00:56:26.199
I went to, you know, I educated the hell out of myself.

00:56:26.199 --> 00:56:38.280
But even that, I don't think that's, I don't really think that's as important as the pattern recognition that I learned as the people skills in terms of relationship, what makes people tick and the psychological things that I kind of picked up.

00:56:38.280 --> 00:57:12.320
More than the content, doing human, like philosophically, what makes you tick and move and why do we react in certain ways and how is capital has been able to entrench yourself so hardcore into our zone and create this exclusivity and this fake competition, this misinterpretation of opposites as versus mode instead of complementary, like all these different things. I look at that and I'm like, man, it could be so much different with a different kind of programming, which is all that education is. To bring out of somebody, you should be putting in certain patterns in people that are getting validated. They'll reflect those over time.

00:57:12.320 --> 00:57:16.280
So if they're made out of noble things, people will reflect that.

00:57:16.280 --> 00:57:19.079
Society is acting a certain way because it's being programmed that way.

00:57:19.079 --> 00:57:20.199
And we can change that.

00:57:20.199 --> 00:57:21.260
My point is we can change that.

00:57:21.260 --> 00:57:22.980
Not be talking conspiracy theories and whatnot.

00:57:22.980 --> 00:57:25.780
I'm just looking for better outcomes and how did you get that?

00:57:25.780 --> 00:57:28.260
You can, you can just reprogram ourselves, man.

00:57:28.260 --> 00:57:29.380
Well, you got my vote, Dr.

00:57:29.380 --> 00:57:31.059
Bright, whenever you decide to run.

00:57:31.059 --> 00:57:32.980
I can never be in politics, man.

00:57:32.980 --> 00:57:33.659
No, me neither.

00:57:33.659 --> 00:57:39.300
So how can listeners connect with you and follow what you're doing and support your work?

00:57:39.300 --> 00:57:44.019
The Instagram is at thegarfieldbright and that's also holds true for Facebook.

00:57:44.019 --> 00:57:50.820
TikTok, I think it's the same thing, thegarfieldbright and Chi90sOfficial.

00:57:50.820 --> 00:57:56.900
And then we have a page called ChiRoglifics, which is, you know, S-H-A-I for Chi.

00:57:56.900 --> 00:58:05.000
And then roglifics, you know, R-O-glifics.

00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:11.119
And so those, those, those ways you can check out what we're doing in terms of shows on the shop pages.

00:58:11.119 --> 00:58:22.679
And then on my pages as well, you know, I just started doing, Oh, I just started the cameo where you can, with people who want me to say hi to family members or something for a holiday, like make a pre-recorded video and send it.

00:58:22.679 --> 00:58:24.360
They can find me on cameo now.

00:58:24.360 --> 01:00:04.239
Mine is cheap. I'm only charging $50. I saw some exorbitant rates people like 20,000 and 15 I'm like, man But I'm just doing $50 man I will drop all those links in the show notes so that people can have that this could have gone a lot longer for me But I want to be respectful of your time. So I My name is Garfield bright and I got married in 1997 and we had asked my best man, who was a talented musician, to play together forever our favorite Chi song. He agreed to do so and as the wedding drew near, a day or two before, he said, oh by the way, I didn't have a chance to practice that song I hope you don't mind I'm gonna play an original it was a worship song that had nothing to do with romance or being together forever so we missed out on having shy at our wedding but we made a memory for dr. Garfield right it's been quite a ride from sensational R&B superstar to award-winning researcher Everywhere he's gone and everything he's done He's found a path to success with a confidence and a determination that has helped him literally will his dreams into reality And he's not done yet Aside from the fact that I have never been more self-conscious of my voice as when paired with his for this interview I'm so thankful for the opportunity to connect and I hope you found as much inspiration and motivation from his story as I have.

01:00:04.239 --> 01:00:30.860
For more info on today's episode be sure to check it out on the web. Simply go to undonepodcast.com backslash ep51 to see the notes, links, and images related to today's guest Garfield Bright. I know there are great stories out there to be told and I'm always on the lookout. So if you or someone you know has a story that we can all be inspired by, tell me about it. Surf on over to undonepodcast.com, click the contact tab in the top menu and drop me a note.

01:00:30.860 --> 01:00:39.039
Coming up, I've got fitness business legend, Pat Rigsby, and the incredible story of Shelby Perry, CEO and founder of iHesive.

01:00:39.039 --> 01:00:45.840
Then an unbelievably powerful story, a former college football player turned motivational speaker, Fletcher Cleaves.

01:00:45.840 --> 01:00:46.840
So stay tuned.

01:00:46.840 --> 01:00:49.960
This and more coming up on Becoming Undone.

01:00:49.960 --> 01:01:17.639
Becoming Undone is a Nitro-Hype creative production written and produced by me, Toby Brooks. If you or someone you know has a story of resilience and victory to share for Becoming Undone, contact me at undonepodcast.com. Follow the show on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn at becomingundonepod. And follow me at TobyJBrooks on Twitter or X, Instagram, and TikTok. Listen, subscribe, and leave us a review at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or wherever you get your podcasts.

01:01:17.639 --> 01:01:19.980
Till next time, everybody, keep getting better.

01:01:19.980 --> 01:01:30.900
You're welcome.