#66 - Karen Fairchild of Little Big Town

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Speaker 1: All right, welcome to At Mike episode sixty six, The Bobby Cast and with Canna Fairchild from a little Bit down Hill. We tried to do this before. I know that was my fault. We got bumped for some little show, The Voice or something, is that what it's called. So because that was a finale, right, and who did you sing with? Lauren? Lauren? Yeah? I got the other day at c M a fest pulled on my day, get comfortable, you know, the mess of your fancy mind. I think that might might it calls forty do really it sounds good, it looks fancy gold, but it's not real gold. It's all smoking mirrors up here. So when you go to a show like The Voice, they only called they call you a week at a time lessons, and they I think it was less than that. I was like maybe three or four days and they were, you know, trying to figure out what song and what she would sing on the finale. And I guess we were on her list. Well, we had of people that she really wanted to collaborate with. Wow, so they get to actually make like a Sandy's wish list, and I think so, and so they and she had done better man on the show in the battle round, and and so they had called Jason and said, is there anyway He's like, well, they're off and the Bobby cast and the Bobby cast and and so I was like, I think Bobby would probably understand if you let him know that it's the voice he I mean, he he'll probably be okay if we rescheduled. So thank you. That's pretty cool though, right, And she didn't win, but you know it's funny country people do so well on that show because they won. Here's why this is my theory, because I think everything is everything is money to me. Everything. You think Blake couldn't win this year, I think that Blake can't win every year. So they had to find years to not let them win. But country artists still spend money on music. Not artists, buyers consumers either heart seats. We start the format when people buy the most, still physical, and we download the most, more so than stream. So they can sell music to country consumers, so if they can find them. My thing is every year they find one or two really good country people and they boost them up and so and listen, I think I didn't watch the show, but I watch enough of it. To know, and I thought she should have wanted by what I watched. But they can't let Blake win every year. I know. I know Blake is man when he like engages his audience and says, don't y'all. I mean the country fans are going to show us tonight what they think. I'm like, God, here he goes again. He's gonna win again, and they do. I know, like everybody, it's all. I have such a weird, like love hate relationship with them, with this town. Sometimes they get really irritated with the fans and the listeners. It's like, I've never seen anything like it before, and I don't deserve. They're very passionate, like don't you see when you go out, like they wait weeks months, like they take their money that they were I know, they come to a show. Yeah, they pick like a couple of shows they can do a year, and they can go to a year, and they wait and they wait and they wait and they buy their tickets and they sit up front and it's it's amazing. That's why we're still here. I mean, it's funny whenever you say you're still here, because I think to the average listener of country music, it would feel like, you know, you guys in the last five years have just become superstars, Like here's a little bit down. Well I don't, I don't know, I don't feel I mean, I don't feel superstars. Now you guys are, now you're you are, and it's time. And I not say this everybody, it's time for you guys to be in the echelon of entertainment of the year. And it's weird to put a group in there, But if Florida George Line can be there, I think you could be in there, and they're they're not one person, and I think once that kind of seal was broken, you can put a group in there. Well, Alabama used to be in there, and I think Zach Brown should be in there. What a weird thing. And this is a weird thing for me too. Whenever it's you guys against Zack Brown band, it's such a weird pull because I think that they're the greatest bandage. I just heard Chicken Fried on Big ninety a few minutes ago, and I was like, God, their records still it just it's so I just I don't know, it still sounds so good. And he is what entertainer of the year. That's the definition. With such good people. Yeah, I got that band. They're so good and I've been able to see him ten times, and let's have a good job. I get to go do cool things and be up closing to theaters that shows. With Zach brown Man, they're so good. I have said this before. I think that we it's hard to see greatness when it's at arm's length. Usually you get to see it from a long way away. Luckily we saw Tiger Woods whenever he was in his prime. Michael Jordan, I was a little too young for Michael Jordan to really respect that. But with Zach brown Band, I was like, now, I'm like, this is to my am, I openion the greatest country band of all time. Now Alabama has way more hits. But I feel like, as you know, the point is it's tough on you two against each other. Well yeah, and and like lady A, we're super close to them. I mean everybody in that category they're friends of our so yeah, but on the coolness factor, it's you two, it's you guys and Zach brown Man. That's whatever. But that's hoverybody fights about, like who should win, not who do people like more somebody likes you guys more like it's people because that's never here. And Zack's quiet kind of aloof. I like Za because I've been lucky enough to spend time with him. If you just meant Zach would like what a weirdo. We used to tour with him. He opened up for us on the right when Chicken Fried was hitting. Um he had we had booked like fifteen dates with them opening for us, if you can believe that, And yeah, yeah, they were amazing and and Zach Um, you know, I love him and I respect him so much because he could have left our little tour and he kept that commitment and it wasn't a lot of money, and they were exploding and ready to be on the Grammy stage and there they were out there keeping their commitment to us. And I just respect him and the guys so much for that. Whenever people start talking about preseverance in the industry, and I guess my point was just in the time that I've been in Nashville four plus years, it's like watching you guys go boom. I remember watching Crook and Chase and whenever the Tornado record came out and you guys doing the Cook and Chase TV show, and because I was watching all the time and I remember you guys being on there with them. When that record was coming out, I was like, huh, okay, this group is all about it's kind of like a boy band, but not really like I didn't know. I really didn't know, and I was because I grew up in the nineties, the Arkansas nineties area. But then I checked out for a bit. It was like this sounds not I am not really into it. It kind of got into an alternative and some hip hop stuff. UM came back around obviously, which is what put me here. But I was like, let me, let me find out about the little big Town group. And then that time you guys have become superstars. But I guess my point, how many label deals did you guys have? Have you had? Uh, let's see four? Four record deals as a group. As a group, does that mean you've been dropped three times? We have been dropped Mercury Sony. They don't care if I mean, they don't care if we name it. Because this was eons ago, um. And then we were at an indie label. That's where the road to hear with Boondocks and Bringing on Home. That record is the record that sold a million three and that was the little indie label called um Equity forgot almost forgot what the labels called Equity. But they're not in business anymore. You get dropped from two and what happened? Equity? Did they go away? They went away? They went away as in like they did you guys go on like a promotion in Equity because your record did well? No, they were it was like you know indie labels, it's always like dissolved. And then you were free agents again and then yes, wow three times yeah. And so then that's when we felt like, wow, now people really want us, you know, because we had sold a million three on that record, and and all of a sudden, the people that had dropped us or rejected us, you know, during that time period, we're calling and it was really fun. It's really fun. I love that. I mean, it was really fun to be popular for especially with the people that rejected you. Like I had girls sometimes girls reach you on Facebook rejected me, which is about every girl by the way. Ever, they've all rejected me and they're all like, hey, how are you. I'm like, we've been pretty good. Yeah, yeah, you're good fun. Yeah yeah, yeah, I'm good and I have a lot to talk about that A little white church to me, did you feel like whenever Beyonce did Single Ladies that she kind of but I do think like that's ours is like the hillbilly version of that. But when that was before that, Um, I can't remember me want to google that, but I would always I would hear single Ladies and I'll be like, hmm, that sounds like like maybe Beyonce maybe heard something about No. I highly doubt that, but um, I do think it's like the redneck version of that. Should have twins. Just now they haven't put out the same you know what, I guess I don't think your dad said something. Yeah he did, but I bet he's in trouble, probably on purpose. I believe ever they calculated even even Athy, all I believe was calculator. Yeah, probably he was a manager. Though. Do you do you look at like pop culture stuff and watch like people? Yeah, I mean I do. I didn't happen to catch um the worst dress thing on either of the night, but Philip told me that I made it for what Awards and I usually watch E and um for some reason, I must have missed it. But they didn't like my boots, and I planned my whole outfit around my boots. So for you to be a worst dressed because you have your own clothing line, Yeah, you just need to be on a It doesn't matter if it's worst. Well that's what I say. It's like if you if you're on a red carpet, you're gonna be on the worst list eventually. And but I was I didn't know it. And Philip was like, hey, I hope you didn't take that to heart. And I was like, take what to heart? Said that? And he goes, oh, did you not see? And I was like no, what? But anyhow, I don't know. I think cat seller doesn't like me or something. If I mean, maybe should just look for people to talk about. Here's the thing about good and bad. It matters if you're on either one of them. If you're on the most powerful or the biggest douchebag lesson. I've been on both sometimes at the same time. That's when you know you're doing something right. If you're on the worst and the best. You just want to be on the list because that doesn't matter. How many years was it that you didn't matter forever, right forever. Who would have thought you'd be upset or at least irritated that you didn't make these best You're on the worst dress list. Yeah, I think, yeah, you know. I mean sometimes I just weird stuff because I just want to and I know and know that I'm going out there a little far and I don't care. So it didn't really shock me. But I was like, dad, gum it, I do think that the boots were good. I don't remember the boots. Well, you've got a hot chick girlfriend, so uh yeah, for now we'll see. Oh my god, I don't know how long she can put up with this. I know the drama. Well, no, just me in general, No, not even a drama. Are you hard to live with? She doesn't live with me? Well, you know what I mean, hard to date. I'm hard to be a human around. I have no human skills, like very little. What you do right now? Because there's a microphone from my face, I'm in the most amazing human ever at me. I'm so personable. Give me out of this microphone room. I had nothing to say. I don't believe that. I don't want to talk about me Okay, I'm gonna talking about sleep number one second, so you don't do the show from my house and my bedrooms like right down the hall. And so I have a sleep number in my bedroom. I love the sleep number bed because how well I sleep. My sleep number setting is a thirty. And right now sleep number is introduced a new bed. It's the Sleep number three sixties smart bed designed to keep each of you and everybody effortlessly comfortable for your best possible sleep. Like all their beds, sleep number three sixty smart beds let you choose your ideal firmness and support on each side of the bed that you're sleep number setting. All new responsive air technology the bed sences you're every movement automatically adjusts to you so you stay sleeping comfortably throughout the night. And how about this to sleep number three sixty smart bed can even pretty warm each side of the bed, so it's just right for both of you. So there's that. My sleep number setting a thirty sleep by Q score. Last night, I don't e think I had mine on last night because it was a long night, but night a lot of times in the nineties. Right now, the lowest price of the season, say five to seven hundred dollars on most of the popular beds. Go to sleep number dot com and find a store near you call eight hundred next bed, and I do think you're gonna love it. Tell him Boby Bones told you all about it on the on the Bobby. Okay, so let's see how about this here? This is if this rings a bell? Oh my gosh, how did you find that? That's a gospel band? I was in like, oh my gosh a long time, like I got different I sound and me, yeah, church and that's my friend Rick Kittelman that's about to sing. I will say that band um fear singers in the band that's truth. You know, Yeah, I know it because I know you. But did you know what outside of knowing me? No? No, yeah, dude, I don't think they're around anymore, sayed after you, like after you left, they stayed being a group there they were. They're a band. They're like a like a a church on something like think tower a power with horns and and they travel around And I mean I went to like all over the world with him, so great learning experience. When you grew up, what do you sing in church? Like? As I want to get up and just singing. You raise your hand to go up and say no. I had a horrible stage right, really, Like I would stay up all night long. My dad would. My dad was a businessman, and he would he would lead um like praise and worship on Sunday, do the hymns on Sunday morning because he loved music, and so he would make us get up there and sing with him. And I would literally stay up all night long. But I secretly I really wanted to do it, but I was just so afraid. My sister and I she sing, no, no, what's she a good singer? Yeah? And my dad has a beautiful voice. Mom didn't sing, and my brother didn't sing. But so we grew up singing in the church. And but we we grew up the choices where gospel music or country music, and that's what we listened to until like my sister started driving us to school and then we started listening to like then it was the Loop in Chicago, so she was older sister, older sister. Yeah, and we would listen to like James Taylor and you know, other stuff like the Fleetwood Mac and whatever whatever was on the radio. And and so that's how that's kind of my musical roots. So I ended up being in this gospel band for a while. So how do they come to you to being a gospel band? It doesn't pay m like does it? The gospel band pay not really, I mean they pay enough to like it's a ministry, so you know they're doing good out there, so they're not paying very much. No, but my preacher would get paid, but it wasn't banking. You know, he made a living. If you were to stay in truth and sing the whole time, did you have a nice house? No? No, I mean no, Michael Debbi Smith has a nice house. Yeah, but that's different. Yeah, that's because they own what they're doing. You know, if you're if you're a high gun to be in this band, you're not gonna make a lot of money. But I found for mostly for me, like the reason why I wanted to get out of gospel music, it was just because I wanted to just be who I am all the time and not feel like I'm duplistic in my living, you know, like like marrying commerce and art and ministry. I think that's it feels very weird and I always felt very conflicted about it, you know, like what you just experienced this weekend of going and going to Haiti and think about if you're charging and you know, it just gets to be like, I don't know, it just felt it felt weird to me. There's I'm not I'm not knocking it. I'm just saying for me and in light of my faith and I I just felt like I needed to move on, not moving on in my faith, but moving on and the business and career. I have trouble with that in a in a way. And so my manager, Corn Capture, I was talking to him and I said, hey, I have trouble sometimes because I like to do things for people but also have a career and I want to have a great career and I want to be able to have work hard and earn my money. And I was like, I told him, I said, I'm struggling with this sometimes because maybe I should do more of this good stuff and take away some of this career. And he said to me, the bigger you get, the more you can do. If you love your career and you love helping, then the bigger you get, the more successful you are, the bigger your pipeline is to helping everything you want by you talking about it, about you doing it, about you giving money by you, and I was like, okay, yeah, I mean think about it, like with Pep and Joy, if you didn't have this huge platform, he wouldn't be affecting so many people. It's because of the platform that you get. I struggle with it though, too, like you did. Yeah, but you're not. You're not like I'm saying. You're not saying that it's your only thing you're doing. You know, it would be different if you're saying by Pimp and Joy t shirts and come down to the altar, you know what I mean? You know what I mean. It's like you're you're a professional, You're doing your job, and then you look at some of these preachers. They're making millions of dollars. I mean, I watched Bono. I went to see you too the other night. Were you there? No, but all my friends were, and I'm so I was so jealous watching everybody. You have to go. And that's another way where I think, didn't you post it was like church or something? Well, I just posted that it was like it was just unforgettable. I think Miranda posted that it was. I don't follow Miranda. Maybe you don't know. Maybe I saw your post in Nicole Island, um, do you know what I call? She was there too, and both of you guys are posting like these epic, greatest show ever. And I was like, oh, man, man, yeah, but in a in a good way, like not in a Somebody asked me if it was super political, and it wasn't. It was it was more of what we're talking about. It was like he was there too uplift people and to motivate them and to inspire them and then to rock the house. It wasn't like I didn't take it. You know, there was a little bit that that got a little I guess you could take it as political, but I didn't see it as that. I took it as he's raising awareness of what we should be focused on right now, and that's people and poverty. And they, oh, okay, Well, before the sun goes down, you know, you kind of think about production, and I know, because your band, you think about production and what you're gonna do, and and so the sun, you know, it was broad daylight when they came out there. Well, they just handled it like you would as a festival act, like you're you're out in the broad daylight. You just gotta like rock it out. You're not trying to do anything. You're us like playing your songs and being amazing like they are. And then as soon as the sun started to go down, then you started to see like the first elements of production and then it was the greatest. I mean, do you know have you seen the show Abstract on Netflix? So the lighting director as that does Beyonce and does the YouTube tour like forever and ever. She designed this tour and it will just blow your mind. But you have to watch the show. She's on the first episode of Abstract and it's so inspiring. What's the show that? What's Abstract? It's like all creative things like one one's an architect, one's about a graphic designer, one is about her um. So it's like taking the light source and how she's gonna light Beyonce and she's done Broadway musicals and it's just fascinating. It's like the creme de la creme of people in their art forms. That's what the whole series is about. I'm a nerd too, so yeah, I'm a big nerd. You're talking to me like out, I know your podcast people are probably like boring stuff talking about that. That's the opposite my podcasting want nerds too. We have a great little nerd audience here. So okay, you leave truth. Were you really like superbly talented in that band where you felt like you had outgrown them as as an artist? As a singer, did you as a performer? Did you feel like, man, I think I'm a little bigger than this. In the end, I thought, um, it's time for me, like I gotta go, I gotta move I gotta move on. And we were singing so many shows and it starts to just like really destroy your voice when you're singing, you know, two fifty shows a year, So you stayed on the road. I stayed on the road for three years and did a lot of shows like crazy, Crazy, Crazy, and we would sing like three hours a night. So it was a lot of strenuous I mean, gospel singers singing from their toes, you know, and um harmony band like super tight Harmony's horn section, the whole deal. But yeah, I mean at the end, I felt like it's time for me to go. So where'd you go? What you do? Let's see, I made an indie record, a gospel record with a girl named Lee Cappellino, who was still one of my goat you do your research. And I made that record with Chris Harris, UM posted the Bachelor, No nothing, what if it was Gris Harrison. So this, this duo is called It's very creative Karen Lee because you were named Yeah, the cover looked like a like a J. C. Pianny Catalogs cover and so this was gospel yeah yeah ish, but more in the vein that I felt comfortable with, you know, literally recognized money. Is that what you mean? Is that? Like I'm trying to know, Like because we were you know, it was more of our voice. Truth was more of um the guy that was in charge his voice. We were just hired peeture, you know. But Um, I have not heard this. I swear to you, I have not heard this in like fifteen years. I don't know. I don't know. I think it's me this love has I forgot about that. So that's what I did afterwards. And then Lee and I um did the same thing. We were just like one day, I mean we were so broke and um we were both married. I was not married to Jimmy then, Um we were married. I was married to someone else, Mark Childers, super great guy who was Carrie Underwood's band director. Now musically I just met him. He's like best friend with Carrie and Mike and then his wife, Ivy child I was married to Mark. That's what a small small town, small world. So okay, how old are you that when you guys are in this duo? Oh gosh, in my twenties. So, um, I moved to Nashville and ninety four. Yeah, so and this is in Nashville. You did this in Nashville. This we did this in Nashville. Chris Harris, who's an amazing musician. He produced that record and um not the one of the greatest kids. Can't save it for ready? Did You're kind of you're kind of torturing me right now, just because not that I don't have the fondest memories of this, but part of it was part of growing up. It's part of the story too. It is part of this without the truth and without Karen Lee, you have a little big town. That's true, Like you wouldn't well, Kimberly and I were friends before this. Okay, cool, but you didn't get together, that's true. Without all of this, none of this. No, you're you're right, part of the story, part of the story. So you guys decide this is your life. Um yeah, we we still talk all the time. She just came to the last rhyme and show and brought her whole family, and um, she like, dang, I was with Camper because she's in a group called Point of Grace. Yeah. Yeah, so she stayed. She went on to do like, Um, we both were singing demos for people and singing and like trying to make a living. I used to sing at Amay conventions and sing like cover tunes and stuff, and I would get paid to put a band together. And she and I did that for a long time and that's how we paid our bills. So after Karen Lee maybe a little bit during Karen Lely a terrible name, by the way, it's a horrible name. What a terrible name. And I think that I want to blame that on the label at the time, but I have to take responsibility that I was standing there and how come your name got to go first. I have no idea because I would think and a two man and we'd be like a coin flip Lee Karen. It doesn't matter it's always because anything sounds normal once you say it. Like the first time I heard Florida Georgia Line, I was like, that's the dumbest name ever heard. Now she's just normal. Yeah, Chumba Womba, I was like, one of the greatest mans of history of music. Now it's just normal? Are they no? God, I have one song? I was like, wow, I missed the Chumba thing. So you and Lee, uh, you're a duo and you're no longer a duo? No, we just we both looked at each other, like, are you having fun? She's like not really, Like I'm not either, and so we just decided that we would let it go. So then what do you do? So then I'm singing demos like crazy? Do you sing any hits for people that you remember? Like you sang a demo for I sang she only smokes when she drinks. I think I sing a female version of that. I want to say it was that demo I used to sing like all the time, demos and sessions and just whatever I could do. Do you feel like you're better than a lot of the people around you? Like really like in your heart? We're like, man, how come I just am not. I got a ticket one day and I had like teared up on the road after it was like after a session or I think we had lost a deal, or maybe we were close to getting a deal. I can't remember, but I just remember thinking, God, this is never going to happen. And I was kind of by myself in the car, like really, I'm not a super emotional person, but I was emotional and I got a ticket. I guess I was feeding while I was crying, and so I had to drive it up on the cop I'm too pridful, like, oh y, you supposed to leave it for the cops to turn it up and not. I know I should have, but I didn't. So I got a ticket, And then then I was even more sad, like loser. But what were you frustrated though? Because you did you feel like I'm I'm really good, yet nobody's taken notice of me, or I haven't succeeded, like I'm watching my peers around me. Do Yeah? I mean I really felt that way when when the band got together and the four of us we got a record deal fast and we've got multiple offers and we signed, and we thought this is gonna be amazing, and we sang in a like an Oscar Dal Lahoya fight on HBO, and I mean they you know, all of a sudden, we were in limousines and we were thinking, this is this is it? Like this is going to happen. And our first show was at the Opery, so we had never sung in public until the Grand Old Opery. Yeah, so we were just thinking that was going to be it, and then it wasn't. So you and Kimberly knew each other first, but you didn't sing together. We sang together in college and like we were in this yeah, but we were buddies, like we hit it off at choir camp. But then you've moved. You both weren't not in Nashville. She was in Knoxville. I was in nash fill And and she was commuting and she was singing. She did an independent record, um and was she was singing like little Honky Talks from here to Knoxville and traveling back and forth. And then she moved. And so as soon as she moved, we started hanging out and we were just brainstorming. One day I was I was like gonna do a country solo thing that was going to be and so was she, and then we started brainstorm and like maybe we should do something together. But the Dixie Chicks were like monstrous. They were selling millions of records, and we were like, why would we do a girls group because nobody's going to do it better than them. I mean, there's no purpose in doing that. But then we started thinking, well, nobody's ever done like a Mom's and the Papas or a Fleetwood Mac and country music not with not where you could you know, like really have the harmonies be the lead singer. So we took off trying to do it. Was it ever thought to call the group Karen Kimberly because I love the idea of taking two names and slamming them together, not ever one time, not everyone time. So it's you two and you're like, Okay, we're gonna do something. Um where did Jimmy come in? We thought it was gonna be a trio. And at the time I was married to Mark and he was on the road with Shelley right he was in a band with Okay, Shelley and then Jay DeMarcus from Rascoe Flats and Joe Don ruining Rascal Flats. They were all in a band together. So Kimberly and I used to go down and see Rascal Flats play at the Fiddle and Steel Bar downtown, and Gary used to show up and saying we were like, holy cow, oh my gosh, you know, but they weren't a band yet. There was just always different configurations of them up there, and we were looking for walking me through this. So Gary would show up and sing with Jay and Joe Don playing in a different band. Yeah, they would sing at the Fiddle and Steel like when they weren't out with Shelley right, and there was some other but they weren't, but they would come together and play. But then they all go back there on their own ways. Yeah, okay, yeah. I think Gary might have been singing back up for Michael English at the time. And then Billy Currington would show up and he would just hop up and sing, so we would we would be all kind of hanging out together, and and then I think I think it was Joe do On first or Gary first, one of them sang with us first, and then that didn't work out. So you're saying a little big town at one point, was you Kimberly and one of the Flat I wish we had one of them in here, one of the flats, Like, if Jay were in here, then we could really tell the story together really well. We should do that sometimes. But yeah, they were not a band yet. We were not a band. And Jay is still mad that I we never asked him to be in a little big town. Yeah. If it were Joe Don though, it would probably the greatest looking band of all time. Joe Don Um. Yeah, Joe Don't played with us for a little while. And then then Jay, Gary and Jodan decided they should be a band. That's crazy. And so then we got the phone call of like, we're going to be a band. We love you all, but sorry, and we were like, dad, gum it, we've been working on this forever. In your mind. What was the perfect scenario at that point? At that point we thought then Jimmy, Jimmy was a part of it. Who did you think the band was going to be at that point? I thought it was gonna be Jimmy, Kimberly and me and Jodan. Yeah. I kind of thought Gary was just chasing his he was, he was amazing, but I could tell he wanted to do something with Jay. So and then then we were like well, dad, gum it, this just isn't meant to be, like not with not with them, And then they put out a song and it like just took off. I mean literally they left us in the dust like that. Well it I mean, we were happy for them, but it was it was not saying you weren't happy, but you're on the same level one day and nine days later, they're on freaking team. They have a number one show, they're like on every late night show. They're selling millions of records and and opening up for Vince Gill and all these people. And weird, still we're still back at the house. Part of the band that you was in. Your band is now selling a million records. Yeah, that's crazy and weird, but it also shows you how fast things can happen. Yeah, Like I talked to so many writers and performers and they're like, you know what, it was never happening, and if there it went, I never thought it was gonna happen the next thing. You know. I look back and it's like that was the moment for them, that was the moment. That's why you can't quit, because like we didn't. We didn't have the easiest of journeys. But um, it was so like meant to be. Clearly they were supposed to be the Rascal Flats and clearly we were supposed to be in the band together. If you call them the rascal Flats, I'll get piste. Oh did I say that that? Well? Did I say that? I'm sorry because they scolded me rascal flats. We're not called the Rascal Flats. Do I call you that? Bobby Bones is not even near a microphone. I was like, I guess that is weird. Somebody said the little you do not call me because we're not the Rascal Flats. Sorry, y'all, I mean, yeah, goes to the thing. It's not you and Kimberly again, Well, it's me, Kimberly and Jimmy and you guys have now decided we're gonna try to make it as a trio. Well, somebody challenged us, like to to make it for really early on in the days, a guy named Brian Tankersley, who was an engineer. He was like, man, if you guys added a fourth person, it would it would give you the flexibility to like one person take the lead and keep the three part like country triad going on and so much more versatility, and we're like, you're right that that would be cool, but that finding that fourth person was really really hard. I mean, that's part of the story of the Rascal Flat deal way back years ago. So we met Philip after all that happened. We met Philip through a songwriter in Nashville, and Kimberly and I met him at Starbucks and Franklin and we exchanged music like c ds and like he had his own music. Was he a lead singer of whatever project was? Yes, And he was about to sign he wanted to do like a Johnny Lang like Blue Um, you know, singer songwriter deal, and he was about to sign his life a way to kind of not a great publishing deal, actually a bad publishing deal. And so anyhow, he we talked him out of that and we got we got in the car. Kimberly and I were like, well, he's way too too handsome and well spoken to be good. So we were dreading putting his CD in the car, and then there that we hadn't heard him yet. Just somebody somebody had been bragging on him that he was an amazing singer. So that was like going to be the exchange of music and we got in the car and we were like, oh my gosh, he's got this voice. And we had always said if we could have a singer that sounded like he smoked all day, that that would really change the texture of our voices together. And that's what Philip sounds like. Was there somebody in between Jimmy and Philip or seven somebody's where you kept trying and they didn't. It didn't work. No, and we never sang as a band until we were Philip and Jimmy and Kimberly and I. The night at the Opery, I think we sang in CIA's conference room with Joe Don once as Joe Don is the other member. Huh, Jimmy Joe Don. I I gotta ask jod on that, but I think it was one afternoon on like a conference room deal of playing our agent songs. I have video. I don't think I have video of any of the jod On Gary stuff, but we have video, Like way back, I have video of like some CIA meetings and where we were trying to figure out if we could afford to open up for Billy Gilman and what people don't understand, you say afford to open up. It costs money. It's not like I just use my girlfriend as an example, because she won't care afou us it. She's hoping for Brad Paisley right now, and Brad says, I'll give you one dollar per show, and you have to figure out how to get your travel there, how to eat, how to pay for your band, and sometimes it cost a dollar in five cents, right, So it's can you last for She's doing like sixty days with Brad, and Brad's very generous to yeah, and the people are so kindle, and it's they're very She got lucky with Brad um but a lot of artists struggle and they lose money forever forever. And then when you're splitting it four ways, I'm going to get that in a minute. I don't even know how I mean. Then you're like really, like, are you splitting it four ways? Yeah? Oh yeah? And I used to rent the van. It was my job. I would advance the shows and the tour manager. I was like the tour managers. Sometimes I would advance under a different name. What's your fake name? Do you remember? I can't remember? Was it something crazy? Like Karen could be crazy? That would have been good. Why didn't I think of that? I needed you run? Yeah, so, but we would we would have to come up with Okay, a sprinter van, not a sprinter van on a white van, you know, not even there was a mini bus with little beds. But it feels like you're laying in the back of a truck when you hit bumps lane. Yeah, if this would just be like a regular fifteen passenger van and then we would figure out meals and Starbucks and and literally I have video of like me beating little big Town bracelets in the front of the van because we needed to sell. We needed to sell like ten bracelets and fifteen t shirts and to have gas to make it back home. Do you look back at that time the and go, man, that was fun, Like man, that we're looking back at the struggle, the real struggle, because I I do that now. I look back when I was at the time, it was more of the paycheck to paycheck, like I was below and now would have to do extra things to me. But that was the most fun because I had everything in front of me. Yeah, we used to go. We would we would drive for hours and hours and hours, and just the four of us, and we were so tight and we would just like dream, just sit out and dream and while we were driving of things that we could do and what we would do if we ever had a little bit of success and a little bit of money. And that's why now it's so amazing, it really is, because it was a long, long, long time. Who was the person that said a little big town that name? Yeah? Little um it was. It was a publishing company, a little bit town Publishing And did they go away before you? And so you thought that's cool, keep it. Well, we we were messing with town names because of like Kimberly and Jimmy and Philip are like from tiny, tiny, tiny towns. And I was a little bit of the city girl, and we were trying to find names that reflected the music. And somebody turned over a c D and it's a little Big Town Publishing and we're like, maybe that's the name. You know. Again, you become kind of names, you know what I mean, Like you said about Florida Georgia line or it was not, But now a little Big Towns is the name. Yeah, it's just the name of the group that you hear all the time. It's not even weird, but I would think that the first time, little big talent, that was weird to you. Yeah, it's signsighted, it is. Think about the first time. It is very selfish thing for me to tell anything about think about the first time and you won't remember it, but that you ever heard my stupid name Bobby Bones, Like who is that a pirate? That a porn star? Like, so, is Bobby Bones your real name? No? No, no, I would like Bobby And so I was given that name when I was like seventeen and I got to get her copy of my book on the way out. I'll I'll sign it for him when she lives. Um. Yeah, no, I'm sorry. I was. I know I was. I know it wasn't it's only on Wikipedia. Don't worry. No, no, that's not a real name. And I I don't even hide it, but it's um it was forced on me. I say, the team and so like you can be Bobby Bones, Bobby Z. I was a kid, I know, I was like, well Bones at least sounds like an actual person. And so everywhere I was I went, I was connected to somewhere else because I went from Hot Springs, Arkansas to Little Rock shared some listening audience Little Rock to Austin, Texas, and I was already doing nights, and then Austin I was started doing a national night show, and then the morning everything was connected. I can never leave the stupid name. Everybody want to had the stupid name. It's not stupid now, it's not because it's normal, because it's normal, and it's because it is something you know, like it becomes. I feel it a little hurt, you know my real name, like a little bit of my fathers. I'm gonna be honest and be selfish a second. My fanis a little hurt, you know my real name. That's okay. I didn't want to hurt your feelings, and we should that. That's honestly. When you can openly ask and hurt feelings, when you can put other people at the risk and see, it means you're being open and honest. I'm sorry. Why would you be sorry? You didn't know. Let me talk about wag Walker for a second. So let me talk about wag Walker for a second. It is an on demand app for getting a dog walker. It's like a bur for your dog. I use it all the time. Just search wag Walking in the app store. You can search wag I love it because again, let's say I'm at work and it's like one PM and my dogs that go out, I go boop, find somebody close and they'll come to the house so thoroughly vetted, so I mean they know these people quality experience. You can GPS track your dog's walk. You have notifications if your dog uses the bathroom, piece poops, your apple, actually bark at you. There's a photo report, cards sumbody after each walk. You know your dog's home. It's safe in details and how many times use the bathroom. You don't have to be home. That's when I use it. That's the only time I use it actually is when I'm not home. Wag send you a free lock box or you can leave an alternate home access instruction, and so you can say, hey, get in this way. You know the type of code in My dog just jumped up here on me right now. Thank you, Dusty, and the dog walker can will come in anyway. If I must have, I think it must have app for every dog owner. Just search wag walking in the app store. Could your first wag walk for free by texting the word bones to four bones B one to four wagg Willson do you link download the appat your first free wag All right, so add some stuff for you here, wag walker. You have dog? I do, honey, Um, old dog, nine months old puppy? Are you training the puppy? Who's training the puppy? We have a trainer um out at Cedar Valley Canine really good? Yeah? Why do you have a trainer for yours? My dog is now fourteen and when I have my dog, when he was young, I could not afford a trainer. Um, so I yeah, animals are expensive. My dog is a better life than I do. Probably, like he just chills. Where is your downstairs? His own room, just chilling, like being a single guy and you know, nice hours. We got some room, got the backyard. He has his own room. I got kids or anything yet, So he just chills. You'll just be a great dad. I don't know. I don't know. If I don't know, I don't know. One more thing you don't know about. I don't know anything. I want to play some stuff I'm talking about me. I don't wanna talk to me. You're a little big town. You're in a van, You're driving all around the country. Are you opening for whom when we're in a van. Yeah, probably the most Phil Vassar. And then Keith took us out on like a weekend, a couple of weekends of shows. Was it Keith because I had a bunch of talk to Keith? Was it Keith while he was still crazy Keith? Or was the Keith after he kind of fixed himself? The first ones were crazy Keith um and then not crazy Yeah, but he let me tell you, even crazy Keith was still like this amazing good I didn't know crazy Keith sold like just amazing person. And so yeah, just a different part of his journey. But both we we too. We've toured with Keith more than we've toured with anybody. And Keith was the first guy that ever gave us a chance on a big stage, like an arena tour. It was him. Did you guys consider a band or a vocal group? Like we like boys to men or we like Hanson? Like if you had to pick one, Like, what did you consider yourself? Because a lot of times we just see maybe three of you and then one has a guitar, maybe two guitar. Well, but you haven't I know, I'm going to get my feelings hurt. I've seen your shows and you've been around you. Of course you have been around you, But I'm saying yeah, but but you haven't seen us play like just the four of us. Let me think for a second. Hold on a minute, have I ever seen before? So like to be fair, I don't get to I'm on the road every weekend. My feelings really aren't hurt. Good because you can wikipedia my name really easy. Um, okay, back to my question, do you can see yourself more like boys to Man or Hanson? But wait, can we get back to the name thing really quick? What did ever you want? You're control here? No? Um, like John Mellencamp doesn't like to ever be referred to as John Cougar Mellencamp. Yeah, so I didn't know if if your name you didn't know my name's okay, I didn't know your name, but I didn't know if I don't a bad thing? Now. Of course, there's no like I told you before we went on there, Jake and I got into a screaming match on this, there's no rules here. Okay, just talk about say whatever you want, ask whatever you want. I don't care. Okay, So back to Hanson or boys men? Are you more like handsOn or boy? Well? Boys to men? I think, okay, but I think more like hill billy Mamas and the Papas or Fleetwood mac Fair. But people maybe that don't know music or below thirty five won't get that reference. True, but we'll they'll get boys. Amen, Water runs Dry. I'll make Love to you on Bend Kneed. The two albums, the Blue album, Are you kidding me? You come on? No? I love them Nineties. I just saw them sing last year with Dan and Shay. It was awesome. Yeah, boy, yeah, you can talk about seventies versus nineties. Yeah that's why. So okay, so okay your boys to men, your country boys to mind. And here you are. You're up there, and let me play a song for you. Here. Tell me about the song right here. This sounds like a church song. Yea, yes, it sounds like the guys part from the girls parts are split up on purpose where you're not allowed to dance with each other. It's like you're singing across from each other at church. That's what I picture in my head. You know what that that is? That's an overthought record, um, and that is us not having our voice, like not fully knowing who we are the moment, but there's elements of us way in there, you know, what are you here with some good stories about this record? So, um, we didn't want that to be the single. Yeah, but they didn't listen to us. Did you begrudgingly go out and perform it? And like, oh no, because we know but but and I like I like the song. We like the song. Fine, it's just that we it shouldn't have been a first single and and the record, um, and we blame ourselves for this, but we it's kind of like a vanilla dout version of us, you know, like very too much thinking. You can get in the studio and just like think too much, and you can have people around you that think too much, and sometimes that doesn't make for the best music, but it also is part of the journey. It's like sometimes you just don't come out of the gate getting it right, and it's not anybody's fault. Like the people that we made those records with were obviously trying hard. You know, they wanted us to break and they weren't trying to do a bad job. They weren't trying to put a bad no, not at all. I wondered Lee of my favorite group Karring Lee. By the way, I wonder if she is like man I could have been Kimberly in a little big town. No, because I think she thinks too much that that she had a path and we had a path and it was all what it was supposed to Okay, so don't waste my time? Doesn't work? Right? Do you get dropped after that? Um? I think we had do we have one more? I think we had one more single than we got dropped. And so when you're dropped, how does that work? What do you get a call? And we were on the five o'clock news, you know, Dmitria Calademos and everybody. I think that's channel. I can't remember the channel that is. Um, we were a part of a mass exodus of artists at Sony and I think they're like fifteen artists that got dropped and we were one of them. But for some reason, and we I mentioned on the news and that we had owed like millions of dollars in recording debt. But isn't that you don't really have to pay unless you make it right? Yeah, And but it was weird that we we were on the news and it kind of really it just sucked because we were thinking, God, now we're damaged. Goods were two label deals in you know, we were out of the Mercury deal. Now we got dropped on Sony. We had Boondocks and Bring It on Home, and Sony still dropped us. So that means they really didn't want us. When you say when you said you had Boondocks, like it was already out or you had it sitting there ready to get We had it ready to go, So I hadn't it wasn't out yet. Never listened to this on the radio. I love the end of the song. Thanks. This was the first time we we got the sound right and like got in the studio and we didn't have anybody looking over our shoulder and we made the music we wanted to make. And we were broke and like three oroken relationships and a husband that passed away, and it was a difficult time for the band, but we found our solace in making music. And you know, when you're desperate, then you really get down to it. Could you feel like when you're recording this on somethingmuch different? Yeah? Really? Oh yeah, because it's hard to feel different when things just haven't gone right for a long time, you know where we felt different. When we were in Afghanistan, we had this song and we could tell the soldiers like they just loved this song about home and they didn't know us. We didn't have a hit, and they talked about this song all the time. Who it was it written at the end for it to be the breakdown, you know, the yeah that was in I always wonder how do you guys decide who? We were sitting around just like this, and we were at Wayne's studio and he was like, you know, because let's it feels like it needs like a cool vamp on the end, but like something that Lyle love, it would love, you know, like something cool like that feels familiar and yet it's new. And so he started singing that and then we started just kind of vamping around parts and he was like, that's it, that's it. And then we one by one quickly went in and just started singing those like ad libby things, you know, five Church Sunday. So that was just the thing that that happened, and Wayne started it and then he yeah, I think he came up with that, you know what, I like it. First of all, I like all those voices, and to me it sounds a bit like um um, I want to hear something the round of that. Yeah, And I loved that, you know, I love so Boondocks. So you had Boon Dog and you didn't You didn't go out like you had it. You were just holding onto it. We were holding onto it. And then we we we took Boon Ducks and bring it on home with us when Yeah, which is this was the biggest single we had ever had right here, not yet in the story. I love this song. I don't know if I love those long harmonies, and I think it reminds me of that time in our lives, this sentimental bring it on home? So you take these with you to the new deal to a no deal, I mean we had no deal. And and so that's when we we went out to Wayne's studio and we just made just a record, and we had probably eight songs that ended up being on the road to hear record and we are lawyer pitched him around town to people without telling people who it was, and because we were kind of damaged goods and just to get feedback, and again we got rejected several times. And then Mike Crasky, who was our old um kind of one of the higher ups at Sony who had gotten blown out. When we got blown out, he felt like it was unfinished business. And he just really always believed in us. So he and Clint Black were starting to label an indie label, yes, Clint Black, and and so we took this record over there to them, and and then it took off, like and it was so amazing. I gotta wonder before it took off though, So there are four of you and it hasn't worked. How close did you guys get to go on, Okay, this isn't gonna work. We're gonna have to go our own ways. We never did you really never did. No. I remember one truck stop on the way to Boston where Kimberly said, what are we doing? Because we're so tired and so broke. But it was just like a laughing like what are we doing? We're crazy? But I just think we're just we're just so stubborn, you know, like just not going to quit. And so we just kept going and then this happened. So what was it? What hit first for you where you're like, Okay, this thing's got some real legs Okay. The day we were I think we were in We were in a North Carolina's studio like parking lot with our radio guy in the car, Jeff Davis, I think it was Jeff Davis. Yeah, And we were sitting there and we got a call from our then manager and we had been crucified in the press, like for like everything from the way the record looked, you know, that first record that you were playing from the videos too, just like I mean, it's wrong with what we're wrong with you And they were just saying like put together band, overproduced, slick um, you know, boy band with girls in it, you know, just any kind of criticism. I mean, we were written up in the Tennessee and like worst review ever. It was horrible. Like all these things went on. So one day after we've been out on radio tour, we got a call and they said, hey, um, Bob Orman. And I don't know if your listeners know who he is, but he's like Kunch, your music critic forever and ever and ever. Do you know him? Robert Dorman? And he wrote a critique of the record and he said, this is a revelation. I take back any negative thing I've ever said about this band, and that was like, I mean, I think Kimberly started crying like it is turning around, Like this is the moment it's turning around. So that and it really was. He really helped change people's perspective that we had made the record finally, that we needed to make and people should pay attention. And then Keith heard the record and then that's when he took us out. So what song was the radio song at that point? Boon Docks. So you now I've put it out, so you have Boondocks is on the chart because it wasn't a number one was yeah. And I used to mail bootleg copies of this when we had it at Sony and we weren't supposed to really be doing anything with it. I I used to mail it to radio program directors and just that were friends of ours and say what do you think? Just to get feedback, you know, like Jenny Rodgers in Boston. I've mailed it to her and a couple other guys just to say, like Greg Swedberg, I think, um so, just people that seem to like even the first record, that saw the potential there, and you know, those people have been friends of ours ever since I'm sure I wasn't supposed to do that, but I did. History is full of people who weren't supposed to do things, who did things, and that's how things happen. That's right. You gotta make it. Tell me about this one right here, because this is when I first started being like, who are these guys? I want to cook and Chase? Make sure I know I love I love this record? Are you supposed to say that about your own records? I think if you do say it, it's very you were very honest, because you're not supposed to say you do, But if you do, it's a really honest thing to say, you know, I love it. I love it? Because that again was like a defining moment for the band, like because we were in the studio with Jay Joyce, it was it was just the first time we had done something again. That was a new chapter, a new relationship of production. Jay is a lot different than Wayne. They both have they just have very different ways of producing records. And Jay won't let you think about anything. It's all about instinct and what feels good. And when he started crafting that moment right there, he was so in it and like it was almost like watching a conductor. You know, he had some of those crazy parts I could tell in his head and he was just like just going for it, and it it sounds like that. It sounds like people in there really singing and going for it without overthinking. And we never thought that that would be a single, much less than number one record. We didn't eat um. We didn't even play this for Dungan until the very end of playing the record because we were scared to play that for him. We waited until we played everything else and that was like the twelfth song. We were like, and we have this and what was his response? He liked it all. I mean, I think, I mean, he was so happy about Pontoon because he had heard that song the demo and he was like, you guys need to stop. Everybody was saying, oh, it's a smash, it's a smash, it's a smash, and he was like, hey, it's not a smash yet. Wait, like, hold on until you get in the studio and you make it a smash. And he was right about that. I mean, you can't you can't start saying that when you don't even haven't even recorded it. So but he turned around when he heard it and he had the biggest grin on his face and he was like, well, you did it. Yeah, that's it. Natalie Hamby was in sitting there, we're talking about this song, and she was like, you know when it whenever they wrote it was back this be into the water, you know, and they had to change the bad word. What what what do you guys? I mean sometimes live I still say it, but on the record it's not though it's hitch back this hitch into the water. Okay, Yeah, she said she probably told you a story about the guys on the boat with them when they bought a boat, and she's like, and he was like that that songs like have you ever seen people do that in your show? That maybe like in a festival. I mean not people that would buy tickets to the show, but I've seen people on a festival like we're clearly they were coming to see Blake or somebody that was on and we were on in front of them, and they'll they'll whisper things like why did she wear that? Or I hate this song? Have you ever seen people do that? For yes, because either when we play festivals and we oddly get put on big festivals, in good spots. But the thing is, you either know us or you have no idea, like it seemed a music beft. We played the river stage right. That's like this the big ones in football field, the one that you guys played. And then they put the b X on the river and we're not gonna be at but they puts the river in a perfect spot four pm, right before everybody goes over, and I remember like a third of the people because they want to leave because somebody good was coming after us. They were like, what is happening on stage right? And I get to see it in their faces, so yes, but they were just confused by us. We're jumpsuits and all that. But you guys are actually good, though there's a difference, like our thing is stupid, but uh, pontoon first number one, Tornadoes number one? Um, I have so many things. Yea was and then tornado and then I can't something that didn't work I think was next. So you're side of the bed. I remember watching I was here, I remember watching the performance, like in the bed, the person doing like the circles. I always loved your song. This is the truth, it seems. I love the songs that don't make it more than I like the ones that do. It's weird. Say whatever you're about to say. I say it because I love there are songs of your I'm just disgusted and they don't make it. I just am so angry at the industry. I know. And this came out in a time when not very many ballads were on radio, and so I don't know if that's why, But we wrote this with Lorie McKenna real girl Crush. Yeah, I loved this song. Thanks. I had this this chorus and the melody of the verse in my phone for a while and and then LORI had the hook. Hey. I was disappointed when it didn't work. It's just such a song like whatever i'llever on the radio, like song should win, which later ended up happening with a Girl Crush Franklace like, yes, you guys kind of kicked that wall down of can ballad's work. Well you really did. It was like kenneball and you don't get much slower than Girl Cry Crush Hey too, And man, I mean, I think You're the Bed is just as good as Girl Crush. Yeah, I know, will you help this one a lot? But this, regardless of who helped what. I'm just so disappointed your side of the bed didn't work, yeah, because I love girl Crush obviously, but when you're side of the bed didn't work. But this song all said is about girl crush. And I think this story is it's told thousand times, is that. I think that kind of kicked the door down for balance, at least in my company, which is the biggest company, and my new boss which I'm very close to, who brought me here and then helped bring him here. It was like, look at this, like this works. Yeah, And the power of of that once it started, I mean, remember the remember how it happened when you played it, and then it went from what was it? It wasn't even on the chart, and then it was like bam, it was like number four or something, the number two. I remember, I'm exactly because I remember us talking. We were in New York and Day Drinking was about to number one, and this record was about to come out. So Day Drinking was the single day and I was like, I'm not listening to the record till it comes out. That's always not Rule's record comes out. Record came out at midnight and they were like four songs that one of the guys worked at your label, Steve said, hey, he's just some other songs. And I heard Girl Across. I was like, holy crap. And I was in New York City. I was like, Amy, you have to play this song. I got so much trouble. I've told you before they did that to you, before they spent up research money my company did to research this song. I see it was hurting my show. How are you kidding? So this is why they literally spent thousands of dollars because I was playing it all the time, right, researching to see if the controversy was hurting you. So it wasn't. It wasn't a radio song and it was to everybody else was a lesbian song. But the song was so good and I started playing it and I'll play it and I like it. Songs are good, and I would did it for like a week, right, And so my companies where they get worried and they they hire without my knowledge and not an eve been a bad way. One of those rooms where people could sit in it and they say back. One of the terms called my research rooms, uh focus like a focus room, and they had people listened to it and say if it was making them angry that I was talking about it, and it ended up being like sixty percent we're okay, within weren't, which is still pretty high, but you mean high on the negative side. Yeah, yeah, Well, I mean a lot of people think we made up the controversy, but we didn't. I mean, I know you didn't make up the controversy. I know, but I've had I've had people in the business stopped me and go, man, that was a good one. Y'all did like, would you think that we would actually do that? When you guys came to the studio there these are memories I haven't thought of since. But I'm sitting here, and you know, you sit with someone, you remember things. You and Kimberly came to the studio, did you two we're talking about? And Emily was listening to the show in d C. And Emily are right for the post she and she messages me, She's like, that's a crazy interview that song like, And I was like, there's a story here, and don't put me in the front of the story. Put somebody else because it will automatic term pop off. Because I've been you screamed aout it forever and she put like a DJ and I wor something first and did me second, and boom controversy and it was I love controversy. I was in love, but it was it was that weird for you guys. Did you feel like you were being attacked? Well, we had done a few interviews kind of a couple of weeks before, trying to like ward off some of the negativity that of just like maybe moms that didn't think they wanted their children to hear I want to taste her lips in the morning on country radio, and they were calling into complain, and so we were getting on there saying, you know, oh, it's a song about jealousy, and you know, just having to try to like get the stations to play it that we're thinking about dropping it because of the negative calls. So then this happens with you. And I remember you saying, maybe a couple of weeks before the Kimberly and I session, you said to the four of us in the studio, doesn't it make you all mad that like you have like such a big selling song on iTunes and you're like at number forty something on the chart. Do you remember saying that's what? Then started it too, and then Kimberly and I came back the post thing was written. The Iowa guy wrote his thing. Jimmy saw the Iowa guy. I guess he wrote something on a blog or something about it. He saw that on the bus late one night, and I remember all us all gathering in the front lounge to the bus and going, oh my gosh, what is going to happen? And all I really cared about was that the song didn't get lost in the shuffle of controversy. I was afraid it was going to go away, and I was like, this is such a special lyric, such a special song, Please don't let this go away. You needed the shuffle for the song to get out. You needed the shuffle for other songs to it out. That's the weird thing about it. All. You guys just didn't do this for a girl crush, Like I'm not kidding, like other ballads that you should be here from cal Swindell that those songs like that would not have been on the radio if you guys want to put that girl crush, because that song was against everything that ready was supposed to be. By the way I was pulling my hair, I'm frustrated. Right, I'm talking about it, and this is two years ago. It was everything wrong with radio. It was slow, it was female, well it probably ballads weren't researching. It was yeah, everything it was the six eight waltzing was wrong with it except it was perfect. Except for it was perfect and it stood out like it was. You couldn't ignore it, you know. And that's what If there's anything that I learned through the years of when you're making music, it's like you have to stand out among the pack, even if you fail, even if you lose. Sometimes it's so much better to be like fire than it is to just be ignored. Back to how we first started to be on the worst dress list than no list at all. That's right, that's right, And I'm okay with you. And I get beat up all time by and by the guard, the natural guard kill the Let me tell you what other song really irritates me that and I know you guys just lost it with Happy People. I love that song. I was playing in the dance part. That was such a good song. I think Happy People is going to have its life Somehow can you sell it to the cartoon like a movie, like well, I know doesn't it feel like, Yeah, it's again, it's so different. People were scared of it. It sounds seventies ish to me. It has that kind of bell bottom I hear bell bottoms dancing. I hear people it would stop listen, And I think that different always scares people until it's not different anymore. And I was soppointed. And you know what, when we're in the studio, we're always setting out to be different. And so when we made that record, we could have cut it a different way, and we specifically chased, chased, chased the very things that you're saying, like while we were listening and referencing to old records and going the kick should feel like this, and it should feel very like train ish, you know, not trained the band um. But you know it didn't. It's not just one of those records that just jumps out and smacks up side the head. Is a radio hit, I guess, but I think, but I think it would have been too. I love it, Yeah, I just keep playing. It just puts everybody off. I think it should be like in a commercial. I do too. I think you should be in a cartoon or something. It's so happy and I just like happy songs to me too, and I think it's an important, important sentiment for right now. How about this one. It's a very good song. I did, like I know then the song and when you guys played at the c MT Awards. I love the song to begin with because it's it's very it's very musical message e I love message songs, love songs that you can hear the words. Yeah. Um, they're like, it's a little risky, I know, a little risky to go and and I know, throw a Baladi song out with Jimmy, I know with but but it's it's the rule of the band. It's like we just we have to go with what we think, you know, we just have to go with our gut, and we have to go with what also we see people reacting to. And I don't think you can. That's the research. You cannot ignore people lighting up in an audience, even though people will say, well you can't. Don't ask your mom, you know, of course, but she's gonna like everything you like. But when you see people moved by a song, or they're talking about it, or you know, you're so good with your fans, you can see what they're talking about, what they love what they light up about when you're doing your stuff, so it's the same thing. We can see it too. So we're just gonna roll the guys. I love it and see if it works. I love risks, love failing because that means at least I gave it a big Also. I tell Luke when Luke Brown one day we were on tour and I was like, you can't remember not having it hit, do you? He didn't remember. I mean he does remember, but he you know, he he's like one of those guys that just and his fans they just adore him, and I do too. We do two, but he it's been a long time. Some people can just try risky things and radio is gonna play it all the time. I don't know. For some reason, we haven't always been that band, but that's okay because when we we do have them, it's huge. And radio has been so good to us because you have females in the band, Like that's the real reason we're going to one. You hear it or not? Do you think absolutely it is? You don't think this industry is like a little like the females. Of course, of course I do. And you have females, and you guys do an amazing job because I don't know if you call yourself the lead vocalist, but you're the lead vocalist of the group and in everyone's mind cause you sing more of the lead parts. So the main voice that you hear's a female. So it's like you think of lady and a bellum. That's a girl. That's that's a girl band. There are two guys and a girl, but it's still a girl band. And so that's why that's all it is. This one about a bunch of haters. Well, I'm gonna say this. A few years ago, I was so discouraged about this subject, and I think there has been a little bit of an improvements. I mean to see Kelsey Maren really bust through and on a Grammy level bus through that we've made progress. It's better than it was a year ago, and in the year it'll be better than it is now. You don't want a revolution, you want evolution because the revolution comes and goes. The worst thing to happen when people start throwing females in the radio just to put females on the radio. Yeah, because it's so much better when it has substance and and girls right substance songs. It's just more difficult to play it on the radio. And and I just think it's it's not balanced and it's not true real life when you're not playing women. I don't even want balance because I'm okay if it's imbalanced the other way, that's all I want. Like, let's not not do things because of something. And I see how I deal with it all the time. But well, oh, I'm mna ask one more thing before we wrap up, Like are you making a lot of money in your clothing line? Because I wouldn't think you would early. It's a new business, you know, it's like it's a brand new baby. Are doing the whole a lot? Though? No? Do you have investors like that came in? You called me and be like, hey, you want to you wanna Yeah, you want to invest on the worst Stress List? Uh? Those are the kind of less I like to invest because you get in low. The stock is low. Um, it's been successful. Tell me about this line. It's been successful. Um, and my I have a partner and apparel partner in New York that executes the vision. Um. But I'm not a person to just throw my name on something, so like, I'm going to New York early in the morning and we're brainstorming about a few pieces, and I will hover over fabric for hours and hours and hours tomorrow and I will I'm not a sketcher, but I will like write out notes tonight, like all the time about details and what I want to do. I really love fashion and I always have and I love it's an expression of the music in a deeper way to me, and it's part of your personality. I mean, I love that you guys are wearing those jump seats and stuff because it it is y'all's personality. It's your personality, and it is so identifiable. It's like, you know, bam, you're saying something you know we're saying is the raging and it says is the God's honest rats, Like that band became it should never become anything. It really shouldn't have became. Ronnie, I can't sing, and we're not good and helping sing. I saw you so Secondly, uh, people would come out with It'll be like, what is this about? Because the last thing I want to do is see an actor get up and try to be an athlete or an actor, get up and try to be a singer. I'm not trying to watch Eddie Murphy download his songs. So I was like, Okay, people are always all right, prove me you suck, prove me wrong. I was like, I don't want that. We're gonna put on stupid jumpsuits and so you know, we walk out there, we know we're not serious and you're gonna have fun and that's it. Well, and I mean, that's why you're selling out places because people are having a big old party. You know. That's the key to to Luke. That guy knows his audience. You know your audience. He knows his audience. He is so in touch church. He knows his audience. He goes out there and it's like he's you know, it's like method acting. It's like not not that he's an actor, but you know what I'm saying. He is in tune with what his fans want to. I get it because I know what my listeners want, and I try to give them exactly what they want because I know what they want because I am them. It's the weirdest thing. Sometimes I think we don't like, we don't give we're sometimes we get lost in our own art of You're also four people, to be fair, with four different personalities, very different and lives and influences. And so I mean you're a mom, your mom. Yes, it's like your kids famous to me. I see him on Instagram, I'm like, your kid, your kid. If I saw him, be like, holy crap, look your kid. You're a kids famous to me because I want to se him on Instagram. I like picture it all the time. Jimmy's coaching basketball right now. We have a double double game tonight. How does he does he coach all the time. He's the coach. He's the co coach of this league of basketball. Are you guys able to have a somewhat normal neighborhood where people do Yeah? Yeah, yeah we I mean, you know, school friends. And Alata doesn't know that this is not normal. He thinks getting on the bus and you know, is he cool because of you guys? Like is he popular? Because I don't really have a I don't know. I really don't know. I do know that I almost cheered up at the Predators game when Elijah didn't know it, but he was sitting He knew he was sitting behind Keith because he knows Keith from touring, but he was sitting next to Mac Davis and he didn't know it. And Mac Davis is just one of the greatest songwriters ever. And and when the Predators scored the whole you know, suite erupted with joy, and Keith turned around and slapped a logeah five, and then Mac Davis slapped a logeah five, and I was like, my child does not know that he is. He is literally slapping five with two people that have so much musical influence on not just me as a writer and a singer, but on country music history. I mean, Keith is a future Hall of Famer. Mac just won the Icon Award. We sang in the Ghetto. He wrote in the Ghetto, huh. I mean, so I got a little I get teary eyed and things like that, just because I think he someday he'll understand it. Does he want to sing because his mom and dad do. He more likes to dance, and he credits Luke all the time that that's where the moves come from. He's kind of a good dancer. He plays drums, plays a little guitar. He sings, but he sings. He I think he's going to be more into rap music just like his mom. He loves Michael Jackson and Bruno Mars like he likes things that groove, So he's not his into our ballads as he likes, like, you know, the fast songs of the rock and songs. Well, I think I see Kelsey Maron, you are the next. We only have one left on the wall. These are I have six pictures on the ball that I keep. I don't p anybody else out there. Those are like the people there's are like, it's it's you, guys, Kelsey and listen, I'm working with you. I get all this cry get crap all time, all time. People send me crap. There's a platt here's some crap. I don't keep any of it. I'm so glad we made the wall. Those are like the people that I really enjoy being around. And it's Kelsey, you guys, Maren pass Ley, Jansen, and Urban and Urban is the only one that hasn't come in yet. I haven't let him yet. This was never gonna be artists. It was never gonna be just gonna bring some song writers in. And then Marin was the first artist to go, can I please come on, and I was like, no, how long we keep Marin off? Two months? And then and then Dirk's nose, Kelsey and Jake Jake, Has Cam done it? Because you and Cam are friends? No, Cam hasn't done it yet friends, but now has Lindsey done it? Yeah? But it was different. It was when we first before. No, now was when we first started dating. Huh, like we first started dating and so she came on then. But yeah, anyway, I'm glad to have have you in? Did you have fun? Yes? I hope I didn't bore you. No, No, if you'd bore me out to change subjects now, listen, you are what you do and do what I do. So would you know, like, would would you be mad if I had a radio show? No? I mad? No, just like we were talking about no, like like Eddie Murphy like you wouldn't you know? And you were talking about because becoming singers and different like I like Chuck Wicks it. Chuck's over on the Cumulus Sation and he's he's an artist. I think that they're making them kind of play a character over that there's really not but I like Chuck and I think, yeah, I don't want to care like everybody should go out and just do the best I can do. I mean, I don't want to. I don't want to do a radio show, but I think it's too hard. I think it's hard. You don't sleep. I don't know how you sleep. Well, that's all back from Haiti. I'm on the road every weekend. I do since January. Told him, well, I've been doing stand up all weekend, but my clock's never I want to come to a stand up show that we didn't. I didn't want to tea back and but you'd be on the road, well, not as much this summer. Yeah. Have you ever had Josh Wolf here? Oh no, no, no, I know Josh but had him here? But you know who played because I did? You know. Here's a funny story for you. So um, First of all, it's a Nashville show. I don't like to play Nationville shows. I love my Nashville listeners. But everybody from all the blogs and all the pain, they all want to come out and see if you suck. It's not see if you're good. They all want to come out and just see if you suck. Because they've been seeing ticket sales, they've been seeing Twitter posts, the fall theaters. Let's just see if you suck. That's what everybody's thinking when they come out, right. So I'm like, great, but I like my national listeners are amazing. But I it's like I don't want to deal with to see if you suckers, right, So like what just I just want to do it? So Ross Conferring comes out and he comes down and Ross's friend he's been on and so Ross comes down and he plays um the song that he wrote for Chesney, one of like yeah, the big pink Sunshine and the pink dumb what is it? Yeah? With other world Ifire sings that, and Carly Pierce, who I'm taking out with me is my main act for the next for the rest of the year. She's she's my support, and so she comes out and plays and who do I who comes up? Who'd I bring up? Is that Krall? Okay? So do you? Zakrawlis okay? He's Sam he produced uh like WoT it like a background? Okay. I don't know who he is. I had no idea who it was. I don't I don't know that I've met Zach, but I know his name. I do nothink about him and all this. I'm doing this bit where I don't to run the bit but I juggle knives and hump a face and stuff right, and so I have no ideaho he is, but I'm humping his face basically, and he didn't know that blindfold on. Everybody's laughing, and he goes back down to see that finished show and I was like, Oh, that was a guy brott by like a back road and I was like, oh, so he's coming in like three weeks. I owe it to him to come in, but yeah, he should come out. Sometimes he wasn't, though I don't know because I didn't care. I'll be your second fight. I didn't do the show. Do you ever have any hecklers? There um no. Two reasons. One, I do theaters. So the theaters are usually between a thousand, depending on what town I'm in, and they're in seats and it's very everybody's you have you their attention. Theaters are different things. It's different for us too. It's so no because tickets aren't super cheap. People are there to really like focus and have in the crowd usually shut people up. If listen somebody starts yelling something in crowds like shut they'll beat him up, so I don't have to worry about that. Like my people always have my back breakup. Yes, I was in uh well Boston, there was a five Boston. They fought before I got in there. But in in western Massachusetts, Uh, someone stands up in yells I'm gonna shoot you, and I'm like, oh, I already had it. I've had like five ins and nets right where I think I'm gonna like die already. And so I'm like, well, so I just sit down behind the speak because I know the promoter is gonna not pay me if I leave the stage, because there's sometimes promoters may not be the nice as the guys. We would be looking for reasons and not paying me. And so I was on a contract not I was doing my hour set it and all of a sudden it's a fist fight in the audience. There's another fist fir below it, and I don't need the stage and I sit behind it and I just keep talking. The cops came. It was the whole thing, and then they get pulled everybody theater and I was like, so anyway, they pulled everybody out of they pulled was fighting, They put took people to jail. It's amazing. But I never left to stage and then I went back into the act. Everybody was kind of but I've stopped to show before what the fight? Oh yeah, because I saw like a guy like trying to hit a girl and I was like, oh no, no, no, no, like right in the middle of a song. Is that before you uh, like before people started doing that on YouTube? Yeah? Maybe because I think that'd be put up all over the internet. Yeah, you know what happens. It fights happen a lot drinking. It's the drink, it's the drinking. I mean, I would think it a nary church show that it would be like a fight every nighting or every everywhere. You would just which are the crowd. I like to look and see a fight. But and with Luke, we would see them get really like really having a good time and some of them would get out of hand, you know. But I don't like that. I want you to like come and have a good time for me because it's quiet, and I don't go on until like show starts George on the seven show starts to day my first dat goes on then say Walker open for me for six months. Carly wool now and then I'll come on third right and do Sorry. By that point, if they're drinking, they've been drinking a lot and it's really quiet, so you hear everything. But yeah, it's fun. I hope you come sometimes. I would love to come. I'll come. I not come to one of your shows sometime and I'm wikipedia you before we do this. Here's the thing. People don't realize that, really you don't get to spend a lot of time with people in this town because when you're home, you're doing home stuff, and then when it's time to do like people stuff, you're on the road. Yeah, the only time or like the Monday, Tuesdays, Wednesdays sometimes. Yeah, I'm glad you came by. Well, thank you for having me, and thanks for letting me do the voice. I didn't let you do the voice. First of all, there was not nothing I know, but you you were gracious about it. There's nothing even racious. You had to go to the joy Wheeler Walker Jr. Do it. Yeah, you know, I just met him at Liz Rose's album release. He was Yeah, he's crazy, Like I don't even gonna run. I think he follows me now on Instagram. I was so honored. Yeah, he's nice. Um, well, thank you, thank you. I hope this was therapy. It was awesome and I think, like you go into Haiti and surprising Amy was the sweetest thing I've seen anybody doing a long time. That was she was about to like she was losing it on the show. I'm a little uncomfortable, okay talking about it because not because of the subject, but because she's done that like twenty times and I did it once and all of a sudden, people are like, Bobby, you're the greatest, and I'm like, I know, but that's I know, but that she's you're her friend. That's like a best friend going, hey, I wanted to go meet your kids. Yeah, that's a best friend thing. Like we're not radio co host I can tell your best friend Like that's like, yeah, you wouldn't do it if you mean, like, I don't you think Mike d k crap out him. I'm just kidding. My deal. Let my dad du Mike says my intern like years and years and years and years and years ago. That whole shows my team from friends there, none of them are radio people. Thankfully. Lunchbox no Lunchbox for thirteen years memory bar So. They were all on the Austin show, The talk show. Some of them were Yeah, Amy and Lunchbox were Ray was an intern, Morgan my executive producer and as an intern. Mike was an intern, like everybody was. Does Ray really have bedbug bites? S? I don't know what he is on it? I don't. I don't ask that questions. I saw the instagram today. Yeah, well, we're gonna go talking to us episode what's this my sixty six? I feel like I've learned. Thank you for the trip down memory lane. I'd really right. I mean that, Karen Lye, there's something to that you should re explore that. Maybe. All right, we're gonna go, Thank you very much,