346 | What to Do When the Child Dictates the Session and Controls the Dialogue

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi,

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I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get

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a master class in child-centered play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode,

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I'm answering a question from Lungile in South Africa.

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How's it to my South Africans?

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So nice when I get emails from y'all.

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And

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this is about a 9 year old girl

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who does really directive role play.

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In other words,

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Lungile is told exactly what to say and do,

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and it's very scripted.

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And so the questions are about that and how to remain CCPT

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when we don't really have the opportunities

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to reflectively respond like we normally would.

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So I will read parts of the email and then we'll dive in together.

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I'm currently working with a 9 year old girl and

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have maintained a strictly CCPT approach through our 12 sessions.

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From the beginning,

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she has consistently engaged in teacher role play,

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taking on an authoritative position where she assigns me homework,

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disciplines me,

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and insists that I remain silent during much of the interaction.

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While I'm generally able to track the themes and emotional content,

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I found it increasingly challenging to reflect feelings

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or content due to the restrictive nature of her play,

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particularly as she often demands compliance and or silence.

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More recently,

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the play has shifted to a baking competition scenario,

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and she has cast me as the competition announcer

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and prescribes very specific lines for me to narrate,

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again limiting my verbal input to only what she directs.

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This has made it difficult to remain attuned in the traditional CCPT sense,

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especially in terms of reflecting affect

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and supporting her emotional processing.

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I'd be very grateful for your thoughts on how to stay within the framework

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while navigating highly structured directive play

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where the child limits therapeutic dialogue.

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All right,

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this is an interesting scenario.

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I love the idea of a baking competition,

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by the way,

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how fun.

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I think that in general we have to redefine

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expectations of what quote has to take place

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end quote

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in a CCPT session.

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So Lungile,

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I think my immediate response is

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that if you are preserving relationship,

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if you are following directives and cues,

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and if you are reflectively responding when you can.

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In other words,

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there will be times in a session

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where she does not insist that you only say or do a certain thing.

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Then

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you know that you are fulfilling the model,

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you know that this is meaningful therapeutic work for her,

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and you know that she is self-actualizing

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and therefore the pressure is off a little bit.

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We don't have to feel so consumed with the notion

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of

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I have to get feeling reflections and I have to get reflection of content in,

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I have to be able to track behavior.

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Those are ways of engaging.

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So that the child feels seen and heard and understood and valued.

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You're doing that by the role play.

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She's invited you into the play.

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It becomes collaborative when a child invites us in.

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That's a meaningful moment in and of itself.

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So the fact that every single week she has you take a role,

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we know that that means relationship and rapport have been established.

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That said,

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we're going to follow the directives and cues that were given,

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and we trust that

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the fact that she has dictatorial power right now,

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she needs it.

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And part of a child demanding that we don't talk or that we only say

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certain things or we have to play a role or we have very explicit instructions,

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that's all her need for power and control.

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We know that will naturally shift.

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She's on one end of the pendulum right now.

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She will naturally give you some more power and control back.

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At some point in the process.

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She's just not there yet.

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Because remember,

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the pendulum serves as the antidote in a child's mind.

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In other words,

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she feels powerless and out of control

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in every other scenario.

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So when she comes in the playroom,

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OK,

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I'm going to take every bit of it I can get,

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but she can't sustain that and she won't sustain that.

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It will naturally start to shift back toward more balance.

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She's just not there yet.

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You're only 12 sessions in.

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So I do have a couple of thoughts though on how to navigate that.

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When you

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are being assigned homework,

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when you're being disciplined,

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when you can't say anything,

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often what you can comment

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is about the fact that you're not allowed to talk.

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That usually will give you a little bit of leeway.

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In other words,

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if they say,

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you're not allowed to say anything,

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your response should

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probably be instead of

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You don't want me to say anything

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because that's actually saying something,

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that's reflecting content.

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If you say,

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I'm not allowed to say anything.

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And you say it as if it's your experience,

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you say it as if you're lamenting,

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as the student would be

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with a dictatorial teacher.

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A student would be frustrated by being told they can't say anything.

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A student would be frustrated that they're

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being given homework.

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A student would be frustrated they're getting disciplined.

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So your responses can actually come as part of your role,

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like,

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man,

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everything I do,

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I get in trouble.

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That usually is well received by a child because

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it seems like you are continuing the role.

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Now,

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if she continues to say,

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you are only allowed to say what I'm able allowing you to say,

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then you're gonna say,

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oh,

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I can only say what you want me to say,

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and then you just follow the lead.

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You know that it won't last forever,

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but often you can get the work around where

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you're including it in the role that you're playing.

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As far as the baking competition.

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OK,

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so she has you now as the announcer.

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Well,

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you certainly have leeway with that too.

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So you can use the lines that she gives you.

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And now,

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so and so is going to make uh

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lemon cream cake,

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whatever,

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whatever you're being told to say,

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but then

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as an announcer,

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I mean,

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think about someone who provides commentary on shows.

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There's some ad lib and there's some

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dialogue that kind of has that color commentary.

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So you might say,

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ww this is exciting,

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so and so's coming up with their cake,

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and you're still getting feeling reflections in.

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You're still getting tracking of behavior in.

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So you just kind of have to think about it as a little bit of a different approach.

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You are still engaging in those reflective responses.

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It's just through a little bit of a roundabout way

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and keep in mind when we think about

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the reflective responses,

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they are a tool.

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They're not a requirement.

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It is the way that we help a child

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feel that we're present with them,

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we're engaged.

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And that they've experienced the be with attitudes.

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When you're in a role play scenario,

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they're naturally experiencing that because they've engaged you in play.

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And as long as you're not completely checked out and saying nothing.

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They know that you are with them.

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They know that you are present and attuned to

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what's going on because you're part of their story,

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you're part of their

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dialogue

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and therefore when we have that kind of investment,

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we don't have to be so diligent

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about getting those reflective responses in now

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obviously if we can

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get a choice in there if we can get a feeling reflection in there,

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if we can get an encouragement phrase in there,

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we're going to,

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and there will usually be times that that will make sense.

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In other words,

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during a transition point,

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for example,

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maybe she goes,

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OK,

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now we're going to.

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So now we're no longer in role play scenario,

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she's in transition.

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That's when you can work in some of the traditional skills,

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but keep in mind,

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you can always work in the skills as part of the role

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as well.

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You work it into the dialogue of the character that you're playing.

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And that's a little bit of a ninja trick

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or a hack,

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if you will.

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All right,

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so Lungile,

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thank you so much for the question.

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I hope that that's helpful.

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Role play is a lot of fun,

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but it can be tricky because we

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we kind of have to walk the line of remaining adherent to the model

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while recognizing that

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there are going to be things that are a little bit harder to do.

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It's harder to reflectively respond when we're given a script.

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It's harder to take notes when we're sword fighting the entire session.

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It's harder to

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provide encouragement phrases and choices when

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we're being the mom and we're doing a role play of relational play in the house.

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So it's just about finding balance.

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It's never about

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one or the other.

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It's kind of integrating both sides.

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I can be fully engaged in a role as well as work in the therapeutic skills

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as part of that.

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So,

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I hope that that encourages y'all.

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I love you.

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Thanks for hanging out.

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If you want to email me,

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I'd love to hear from you,

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brenna@thekidcounselor.com.

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If you want to leave a question for me on my

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voicemail in the states,

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813-812-5525.

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We will talk again soon.

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Bye.

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Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.

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Brenna Hicks.

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For more episodes and resources,

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please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.