Summer Reading with KJ Dell'Antonia

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Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah hart Unger. I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger. On the side, we are two working parents who love our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals. We want you to get the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This is episode one hundred and forty seven, which is first airing in late May. We are going to be talking summer books, interviewing our great friend Kaj who is the author of The Chicken Sisters, which is coming out this summer. And she's going to be talking books and reading and getting kids to read and all those great topics. I think she's their first repeat guest. Yeah, yeah, she is, So there we go. We're having her around again. We loved her so much the first time. So, Sarah, you have summer reading lists? I do not right. You made your twenty twenty reading list early. No, I didn't think a couple of year I didn't know. I do it like by quintile or whatever, because and then if I like find something that I think will be like a great read for a particular time of year, I might like stick it down preliminarily. But no, I don't have like all the books I want to read for twenty twenty, because then that wouldn't leave any room for like new stuff that comes out or things I don't know about, or things I hear about from kJ or from an Vogel, So you know, got to leave space. But last year I did based on the modern Missus Darcy Summer Reading Guide I created. I think that was the first time I decided to do like a pre done list kind of ahead of time, and I really enjoyed that, like having something like twelve books that I had picked out ahead of time that I was like, this is going to be my reading summer, so I don't have to keep thinking about what I'm going to read next because I already will know kind of what's on the docket. And it helped me manage my library reserve list really proactively, which is not something I had really done before. I miss my library reserve list our libraries are not currently open. I know some areas are doing pickup and stuff at the library. I don't think ours have gotten to that yet. But yeah, I really enjoyed doing that and I think I will do it again. So I'm excited to maybe get some ideas from kJ. And then also I know that this is airing at the end of May, and the Modern Missus Darcy Guide comes out mid May. I believe it's like May fourteenth for subscribers and then like the fifteenth or sixteenth for other people. So yeah, so I had one here isn't already reading her blog or listening to her podcast that's Modern Missus Darcy dot com and the What Should I Read Next? Podcast? And she has a great books list that comes out every year, and she has also been a guest also a world So yeah, what about you? Have you read anything good lately? Do you have any do you like to lighten up your reading for the summer. I feel like you've been in a very heavy reading streak. I don't know I've been a heavy light reading share. I don't know what sort of reading I'm in at the moment. I'm just not in a brain space for a whole lot of I well, partly in the past few weeks. I've been cranking out a whole book myself in a period of about three weeks, so I have not had any excess capacity for dealing with words. So hopefully I will get back to reading at some point. I need something light, but I don't even know. I haven't been able to even do much of fiction light. Okay, so Sarah's holding up? Then nothing, just me here book. You think I should read it, or you think I should very light, it's very weird. You might hate it. I loved it, okay, but as I read it, he why you think I would hate it? Because you're going to be like he used a weird literary device and it doesn't really make sense, which is fairly like. Really enjoyed reading it, and it brought out a lot of interesting thought patterns for me, and it was one of those books I just wanted to tear through. All Right, well we go and maybe I'll give it all enjoyed. I enjoyed it a lot, but it has very mixed reviews and it's weird, and I even was literally thinking to myself, I think Laura would hate this. Well, maybe I'll read it just to hate read it, because sometimes there's a short book and I feel like I got through it. I don't know anyway, No, I just read. As we're recording this, I finished The Boys of Summer, which is Roger Kahn's book about the early nineteen fifties Brooklyn Dodgers. Oh that sounds down I have been reading. There's so many books about the early nineteen fifties Brooklyn Dodgers, And partly it's because it was when Jackie Robinson was on the team, and so there's a lot that you know is going on with that, which which is also sort of fun to get to read about Jackie Robinson in the moment, which, of course, now he's become the sort of like saintly figure in history of you know what he did obviously the pioneering of integrating Major League baseball. But you know, he was a tough, aggressive guy. And I mean it like you think about it. You know that, of course, because what he's known for is stuff like stealing home base, Like you don't get that when you're like the sort of he put on. He had some of this mild mannered front because he was told, like you have to like not react right, when people are screaming at you, when people are calling you horrible things, like to get this integration to happen, you have to be calm and not react to it. But of course, and on the field, he was like the most amazingly aggressive player ever, and so it's kind of fun to read that part of it as well. But anyway, so a lot of people have written about this team, you know, Doris Karens Goodwin wrote about like maybe next year or this something like I forget exactly the name, but she was a big fan as well. There are a lot of good writers who grew up in the nineteen fifties in Brooklyn, so there's sort of that aspect of it too. But anyways, it was a reasonable book because he uses the device of he was a young reporter for the Tribune Herald when he covered the Dodgers and then he went back to revisit all of them later. That sounds familiar. Well, turns out it's a device many people have yoused, so he clearly used it before I did, since he wrote this book. And I'm referring to Laura's novel The Courtland Boys, which also features a young reporter, lends me a little bit of my podcast co host. It goes back to and it's a great book. Actually it would be a fun summer read. So but yes, you need to get it, you need to get it paper published because I think it's well, I think it warrants it's that good. All right, Well I will well we'll see about that anyway. All right, So now we're going to talk Kj's recommendations for summer reading. So looking forward to this. Well, Sarah and I are delighted to welcome kJ Delantonia back to the program. She, as we said the intro, is our first repeat guest. We were talking about her book, How to Be a Happier Parent. I guess it was a year two years ago. Two years ago, now two years ago now that's when it came out. But she is back with a because she has another book out called The Chicken Sisters, which is her first novel. But she is also going to share some great summer reading pics for us, so we're very excited about that. So Kaj, welcome back. Thank you for having me back. And I'm so excited. There are so many good books coming this summer and I'm really like dying to share them all right, well, let's do it. I mean, Sarah and I can literally just mute ourselves and just let you. We'll do a few questions, but go ahead, you know us, what do we need to read this? As far as I'm concerned, you're invited back yearly for summer reading, so you can just put that into calendar for next year. I love it there, I mean, really, there's so much good stuff coming out. Some of it is really obvious stuff that people have heard about. Catherine Center has a new book. It's called What You Wish For. She had pretty big hits, a big hit last summer with Things You Save in the Fire. And I've already read some of the things I'm recommend I have read, and some of them I haven't. What you Wish For. I was lucky enough to get in an arc, and if you like Catherine Center, it's going it's going to satisfy everything you want from her. It's got all the pieces for a great summer read. A protagonist with a problem and a challenge, and an exciting not an exciting, but like sort of a I love books that get dive into a workspace that I don't work into, and this one's in a school and I like that romance, but the romance isn't necessarily completely at the center of the book and just and all that satisfying stuff where there's somebody that you would really like to see get theirs. That can be really fun in a summer read, you know what I mean. So that's a good one. Jen Winer has one coming out, can't miss that. Kristin Higgins has one coming out. That's a great one. But I wanted to focus also on some debuts, some people that have books coming out that you know, we haven't heard from yet. So I'm really excited, full disclosure, haven't read this yet, so I'm showing it to you guys because you're on the video. But yeah, that's kind of unfair. You're going to have to describe the same name. And I don't have all the books. So this is Suzanne Nugent. She is a TV writer and a very funny presence on Instagram at least us where she is I think sus Nuge, which I like. And this is called Brunch and Other Obligations. It's getting a lot of buzz and it strikes me as sort of let's just say that the fourth word on the blurb is Bookworm. You had me at Bookworm? Fine? And is that a novel because that one's a novel. Yeah, I'm really heavy on the novels. I didn't. I only have a couple of nonfiction ideas. So I'm hoping some of you that you guys have some Summer is a novel kind of a time, right, I mean, Jenny, what do you guys like to read during the summer. I like, I like to have like a balanced list. I want, I want a novel, but I often I like to have a especially as summer gets on and gets on and starts to end. I like to have some books that sort of are inspiring to me to move into fall, like Laura's books often fill that role a Gretchen Rubin books. I've got a couple of good ideas for that. But yeah, I would definitely like the sit by the pool stack where you're like looking forward to each and every one of them. Yeah, but the beginning of summer and end of summer can have a different vibe. That's yeah. Yeah, that's absolute late And I think you want some balance in it, Like you want some things to be the sort of candy of reading, the light stuff and maybe you want something that's a little more literary, or maybe has a little drop of it has a little of maybe a harsher harsh. Isn't the word a bigger emotional vibe like more? You know? So, so you want some capers, and you want some big emotions, and maybe you want there was another there was a thriller. You might want to throw a thriller in there, or you might not. I usually put a sci fi in the thriller category because I'm more of a sci fi girl than a thriller. But I do have some really fun thrilling ideas well. Why don't you give us first, like a book or two, the total Pool read. Okay, so let's say pool read, and then we can do maybe literary, and then we can do the sci fi type. Perfect, Okay, all right, total pool Read. Well, I'll plug my own chicken sisters pluck Total Pool Read. That's exactly where it fits. But even even more so, Abby Waxman has a new one coming out. She had The Bookish Life of Nina Hill last year. Lots of people really love that, including me. Again, you had me at Bookish. This one is called I was told it would get easier and it is. It's the story of a mom and a kid on a college tour, which has now become science fiction. But oh well, and she's just really good. I think this is her it's either her fourth or her fifth book, so you're in really solid hands, Like she's gonna You're gonna romp along with these people and it's gonna work. Same thing with Amy Popple p Oe p p e l. She has Musical Chairs coming out. It's not out till July, so you gotta kind of a wait for that one. But again, it's going to be like you can count on her. I think this is her aget third or fourth book, and she's gonna nail it, like it's not going to sort of flake out at the landing or something like that. A debut that's out right now that I'm so excited about but has not yet landed in my mailbox because everything is a little slow is Emily Henry's Beach Read. So this is classic. First of all, good titling, Emily Henry. Props to you anytime you put beach. I think I'm going to write a book called Summer Beach Vacation Nantucket Bookstore that will just that'll just cover all of it. Oh, vacation, summer beach nantucket bookstore, vacation, and everyone will just flock to it anyway. Beach Read is it's a romance writer and a literary fiction author in sharing a beach house for you know whatever reasons, and theychallenge each other to only read in their genre for the summer. Yeah, I could see Sarah nodding. I know, I know me too, me too. You've got me with that. So haven't read it yet, but I'm really excited about it. And then I've got Laura Hankins happy and you know it here that I haven't read yet. I think it's probably gonna it's kind of kind of fit into the classic if you liked, if you liked, Oh yeah, it goes and minor catastrophes is the right kid? Oh what is it? Oh? This is awful? I love this book. Well, kJ, why don't you think about it. We're going to take a short ad break and you can think about it. We'll be back in just a minute. Well, we are back with kJ del Antonia, who is talking Summer Beach Reads. And she left us with a hook right before the ad break that she was comparing this book to something else, which was Minor Dramas and Other Catastrophes by Kathleen West. All Right, that one's already out. I read it. I loved it. It would make it good, it would it would make a very fun sit by the sit by the beach read it. It's it's another school It's another hothouse parent helicopter school book. But I happen to like hothouse parents helicopter school books, so that one totally works. So those, those are those are going to be like my beach read. Let's see, I have anything else on the beach beach beach that was kind of thrillery. Oh so if you like a beach tier jerker, you might want to look for You and Me and Us by Alison hum Hammer. It's new, it's out just I think it just came out in April. I think that's gonna work. Or if you want your beach reads to be historical, I kind of I thought about, like, because that's a thing, right, there's the thriller tear or the beach read teer Jerker. If you want a historical beach read, you might check out the Jane Austen Society Once again excellent titling. Natalie Jenner, you had us at Jane Austen. This one is a group of people in I forget if it's right after. I think it's wide after World War two. Might be in the early fifties coming together to save a Jane Austen related house. So got a little history but not too much. Sounded really big there. Yeah, And if you want, if you want one more, one more stuff, one more beach read East Coast Girls by Carrie Clutter. I think that one is the beach read with the inner mystery. So if you like that, the group of people with a secret, that's that's going to be your East Coast Girls Carrie Clutter. That is getting amazing buzz the goodreads reviews, and believe me, goodreads are people are savages. People are people are really good reading savages, the good Reads savages. The good read savages really like it. So that is a good sign. All right, So, kJ we've got our beach reads. Now if we want to go a little more literary, what what should we? What should we? So? Sometimes I not last summer so much, but the past two summers I've tried to tackle one of those longer big books that you know was Daughter, Yeah, Christian Lemon's Daughter. I did the uh George Elliott Middle March. Oh cool at one point, and that was that was good. So tell us what can we read? Maybe not that long, but yeah, I don't. I don't have anything on here that is that long. Oh my gosh, I missed. I missed a total be tread. We'll come. I'll come back to it. I just circled it, totally coming back to that one. So with the literary stuff, I just I have a couple of that aren't out yet that I'm excited about. One's called Motherland. It's by Leah Frankie f r A and q u I. And this is going to be an immigrant style American story. It is. And what I've the reason I picked the ones I picked is that they're like literary beach reads. They have some of the elements of things that make things easy to read. They have relatable protagonists. They have this one's got the restaurant scene it and I love it a book that's got restaurant scenes in it, and yet they tend to tackle some bigger societal issues in a more overt way. A lot of beach reads tackle societal issues too, but it's it's lighter, they're more on the side. So there's Motherland. And then I also pulled out Empire of Wild. I haven't Yeah, I haven't read either of these yet, although I actually have them, but they're This one's kind of got a weird This is a weird, fably vibe to it. The back is that it's inspired by the traditional Canadian metist legend of the room Go, a werewolf like creature that haunts the roads and woods of Native people's communities. So yeah, once you say the words native people's you're basically in literary character because that's just typically you are. It shouldn't be that way. Let's have some Native people romance baked romance novels too, absolutely, but it often happens that way, and that's kind of where we are. And then I brought in writers and lovers from Lily King, which is already at and is getting a lot of buzz. It's Jenna's book Club on the star or are on the sticker. Lots of people are reading it. Haven't read it yet, but that'll be. Those are going to be my sort of serving of of stuff that's a little bit deeper, and I feel like I wrote down one other. Oh, you guys might want to look for The All Night Sun by Diane Zenna. This one's literary and takes place in Sweden, and it's about it's sort of one of those kind of slightly dark women's fiction or women's friendship books. Sounded sounds sounds super fun and is my Yeah, that's like all my buttons right there. Yeah, well that The All Night Sun right so, and in the summer, so you know, you know, you got you got some pieces of that that you're already picturing. We're halfway there, halfway there, yes, And so these are literary books that aren't going to then put you into a thirty seven page stream of consciousness thing. So no, yeah, I have not recommended My Struggle or anything like that. Yeah, I've been waiting for my I feel that my fourteen year old boy maybe penning a book called My Struggle downstairs even as we speak, and it's featured. It's like you zoom calls and too much homework, and every day he comes into my room and presents a monologue from My Struggle, and I just want to go just capture this all. You're such a man already. Well, we had we had a funny little I mean in terms of like summer reads sort of things. That So my oldest son, Jasper is writing a novel which is which is about vamp hires. But we had a bit of a sad crisis yesterday because he's calling it Midnight and it turns out that Stephanie Meyer is coming out with a vampire. That's that's what she called it. We didn't even mention that for your your summer read, but yes, Stephanie memer Meyer is surprising us all with a gift novel in August. It's called Midnight. Oh that's true, and maybe Midnight Sun maybe getting at the whole sweet I don't know, but yeah, I wonder if he could like slightly off because there's lots of books that have like similar titles similar and in fact that might benefit him because once it hits Amazon, they'll be searching for Midnight and they'll see this other fook. So midnight in Midnight because Midnight. Yes, I'm enjoying it so far. All right, I have a vampire book for Okay, I don't know that it's for Jasper, but maybe it'll it'll help you with his Vampa. It'll so this is out already, super fun. I talked about it on Instagram. I think last week. It's the Southern book Club Club's Guide to Vampire Slighing. They had me at nineties book Club turned Buffy the Vampire Slayer. But it actually this, it's a it's a more Seriously, this is not a romp. It's actually almost a literary vampire thriller. There is a real thread of societal justice and feminism in particular gender issues, all kinds of interesting stuff going on in this book that was totally unexpected for me. Plus it is in fact a thriller about a Southern book club having to tackle a vampire. There's no spoilers there, and then it's bizarrely realistic, like you buy it. It's not Buffy where you know she she stabs the vampire and somehow the body's waffed away into the sunset. It's very detailed. Anyway, it's really it's fun and worthy and vampires feminist vampires is an interesting concept. The vampires are not the vampires, not the feminist no no, no no, that is in fact part of the problem. Okay, oh well, a feminists, the empires are not feminists, but nobody. This is the nineties, so nobody is a feminist in the nineties. I don't remember if it's Nashville or it's not Nashville, but it's in the nineties and something somewhere like this, No one is a feminist. That's interesting. It's from these these premises and these titles you're sharing. I feel like the industry may have upped its game in terms of the mash up slash you know, it's interesting note that. I mean either they're just following what people really like to read and that there's something to that. I mean, a book is a product, so you know that people like bookstores and Jane Austen and vampires and Midnight Sun, like why not? Like I think it might need just me like the way I'm talking about them, because that's my I have a book coming out and it's a global pandemic, and so figuring out how to market it and talk about it and so that people want to read it has been really challenging, and I've got my eyes really out big on how other people are marketing their books. My podcast so co host Serena Bowen is a multi best selling romance novel and what she doesn't know about marketing a book online. She's an indie author, nobody, nobody knows, and so we just spend a lot of time on like, Okay, what are the three things in that book that make you want to read it? And so that's that's kind of the way my mind has been working out working lately, also because I've been putting these books on Instagram and trying to share debut authors. I want to give people the stuff that makes them want to read it, and that's what makes me want to read it. Do you feel like readers are interested in any particular you know, the themes that you just mentioned, Yes, but like are there also like well, So, first of all, I will say that it's interesting that there are no like post apocalyptic type books that are popular now because I think it's too close to home. I'm serious, Like I think it was Station eleven can come out in twenty twenty, Like no, but are people looking for coziness? Like what are they? What do you find that people are seeking in these current times? It seems like people are looking for distraction and they're not bothered by the fact that the distraction inherently has to take place in a book that is before you know, because nobody's yet written and I don't as an author, I don't know that I even want to write. If I were an indie romance writer, I might write a short story Seid in COVID and just put it out like that would be kind of fun, But I don't know that. Book wise. I don't think we can't really do anything with it until we know where it's going. It would be very hard to just anyway. Kind of like all the nine to eleven books that have come out in the last like five years or so, like we couldn't They couldn't have come out in yeah, two thousand and three or something. No, I mean somebody was able to do something fairly quickly on and it worked because of the way that they approached it. So that some brilliant person will come up with that stuff. But yeah, I probably wouldn't be I'm not an apocalyptic reader anyway. You know. I'm still having nightmares for reading The Stand as a teenager, so I probably wouldn't be sitting here with those. Although I did bring some thrillers. Well before we get to those, OKAYJ, I want to make sure you get a chance to tell our listeners about the Chicken Sisters. And you know, you mentioned a little bit about marketing your book during the pandemic, but sort of what how this is shaping how people are you know, launching books now since clearly, I mean we're not going to bookstores places or not going speaking tours or anything like that. So what all the people I was hoping to go meet and all the you know, bookstore table placement doesn't matter right now, Airport bookstores, woohoo, you know, all the things that used to help push a book along, and now we're really uh, you know, it's it's all online, and it's not really clear whether people want to go to book events online if you've got a name already, sure, Jen Winer is getting people to come to her her book events online online. Sorry, when Kristin Higgins releases hers, people will come listen to her talk about it. Me not so much. I you know, I I've not I'm just not that person. So there's just this real I mean, there's a lot of anxiety around. I can reach my people like I can reach the five thousand people who follow me on such and such on the X thousand who follow me on Twitter, but they're not all interested in fiction, they're not all going to buy the book, and so to try to push beyond our individual social media bubbles is kind of the challenge. And I think what we're seeing is authors trying to at the very minimum, share their own social media bubbles. So we're seeing stuff like a mighty Blaze where a couple of you know, neither of them is a super famous author, but they're just a couple of fiction authors have come together to just gather everyone and say, let's, you know, let to try to use all our various platforms to spread everyone out. And that is the really great thing about being a writer. And we've talked about this on the Unwriting Podcast, or one of the many things. Nobody buys just one book, like I can give you this whole nobody goes and just like I will buy a beach Read for my whole life or even for this year, I'm gonna buy my one. But there. I mean, yes, some people don't buy her, but most book readers leave with you knows, there's a reason books bookstack is a hashtag anyway, so we can share. And that's what I've been really working to do, is share other people's work, and also to go ahead and just outright ask will you please share mine? I think people would like, you know, people who like people who like Abby Waxman's books are gonna like the Chicken Sisters, people who like Ellen Hildebrand. That's a big name, so it's sort of a big ask. But I don't know her. I'm not asking her to do anything, but that's that's where my book fits. So knowing where you fit and then trying to find the readers of those books that don't already know about you, that is the challenge. Well, I I'm just curious as to what book sales are doing, because I've actually bought more books in the last two months than I've bought in the last two years because the library is no longer an option. So I would think that for the right types of reads, and also you know that that escapist instinct, right books are a lovely way to go to another time in another place, which I know a lot of people are looking for right now. So I'm sending you positive vibes. I think people will buy. Yeah, apparently the situation is not totally dire with respect to book sales. There they're still but they're not They're not flat there. They are declining, all right, So Katie, you have to tell us the setup of The Chicken Sisters. I. So The Chicken Sisters is the story of two sisters, two small town sisters, one who stays, one who goes, and they're perhaps rash decision to attempt to use a reality TV restaurant competition between the two fried Chicken restaurants that they've grown up with in their town to try to resolve their ongoing feud about who has made the better life choices. Because we all know that nothing solves problems like reality TV. So you can expect in it there's a very uber organ a professional organizer whose life is not as tidy as it looks. Obviously, there's the two fried chicken restaurants that have been feuding for generations, so there's a generation's long family feud. There's lots of small towniness. There's above all, there's people. Both of my protagonists are really struggling to figure out what makes them happy, and they're looking to each other to see what their sister has done and thinking that that makes her happy, and then ultimately they need to figure out that they have too to find their own way to to be happy. That's sorry I flaked off there because that sentence doesn't always end in the same way. And there's like a manipulative reality TV host and there's an all chicken version of Stephen King's Carrie, and there are secrets and a dog and I mean, it's it's fun, but it's got you know, it sounds I mean literally, if you saw me look away, it's because I just pre ordered it while you were talking. So I think it sounds worthy. There are any fellow authors out there learning those things that make people so figuring out what we all have little things that make us go, oh, yes, I will read that book. And you know, Jane Austen bookish for some people like anything about twins or anything about adoption, or anything about anything about reality TV or anything about sports wives or I mean, there are sort of all kinds of little various tropes and I'm not doing a great job of listening to them. But once you start to see those, and it's a really great way to help people find books that they're that they would be interested in is just by pulling those out. Yeah, all right, so let's just do our thriller slash sci fi list and and then we will have more than our listeners can handle. Yes, all right, one more beach read, Last Tank standing Lauren Howe. It's your crazy richets and rich Asians of the Summer. So well, Sarah just preordered that one too. You had me at that night. Yeah, yeah, you had me at that. I don't know how much rich, but anyway, that's what it is, or that's the shortcut to it, and I think it's going to be a really fun read. So thriller wise, you've got. There's a couple of new series starting to come out. There's Body in the Garden by Uh. I wrote down Catherine West, but she wrote Minor Dramas and other Catastrophes, and I have a sneaking suspicion Body in the Garden maybe a different Oh no, it's Kathleen. Okay. Minor Dramas and other Catastrophes is Kathleen West. Body in the Garden is Catherine West. They are both good. Body in the Garden is historical, cozy, modern twist, feminist, traditional memory mystery. So that is fun if you like a little travel in with your thriller, like if you'd also like to take a trip to Ireland while you're solving your decades old mystery with your female protagonist. I'm gonna recommend Sarah Stuart Taylor's The Mountains Wild You Almost even there's so much Irish atmosphere in this you might need to just carry around a wolf sweater while you're reading it, even though it's gonna be the middle of summer. It's yeah, and she's a really solid again, She's going to stick the landing. This is not, by any means her first rodeo. She's a very solid writer. New thriller that I haven't I'm not a huge thriller reader, but I looked for some that it felt like they would still be fun for me. So I've got All the Broken People by Leah Conan. This one has this super twisty it. The plot reminds me of Oh Oh, but Everybody loves her. It was just a TV show Little fires everywhere. No, that's the other one with Nicole Kidman, oh Lene Moriarty. Okay, this one's that a very Leanne Moriarty style, twisty plot. All the Broken People Leah Conan definitely one to look for. And then I think my last thriller. Suggestion is for fans of Killing Eve because it's got that professional criminal killer aspect to It is called The Lady Upstairs. It's the debut also and it's by Hailey Sounon. Well, that is going to be all the books anyone is going to be able to read this summer a lot of time. No, this is awesome kJ. They say this is a great list, and so I'm sure some people are curious, how do you get the books ahead of time? I think some of our listeners would love to know how that happens. It's because I have the podcast and I review them, and I have been reviewing books for many years. So in some cases it's it's because of that. In some cases it's because. In one case in the Catherine Center, it's because I was at my local bookstore right before all of this imploded and she happened to have the ARC and be finished with it, and I was like, can I have that? And she was like yes, because we're but so that was cool and then yeah, sometimes people just send them to you. The one thing we never hit was if you wanted those end of summer nonfiction things to start thinking, I just have two things Okay, two things. Yeah, I have life as in the Transitions, which is by Bruce Feiler. It's Poe Bronson esque. It's a lot of stories about the ways that the transitions in people's lives have set up their entire life story. And it's little bit about managing transitions and a lot about loving them and reveling them. And it's called a mastering change in a nonlineary age. He is really Bruce Spiler again, rock solid. Lots of people are going to recognize him and have read stuff from him, Counsel of dads with him. It's an NBC TV show now because yeah, it's not about his life, it's about his death. But fortunately he didn't actually yes, so it all worked out. And then the other one, I'll bet your listeners are going to really dig. Lots of people are fans of Lisa Woodruff. She is the host of the Organized three sixty five podcast and her book about the Paper Solution, it's actually called The Paper Solution, is coming in August. That would be a perfect I know how I feel in August that I'm going to like get organized. So this is like that get organized read that you can read while you're still on the beach and imagine that you're getting organized, which is maybe the best reading about it instead of actually doing it. Yeah. Yeah, I'm really good at that myself. So Lisa has been a guest on the podcast as well, and Sarah, Sarah is actually doing the Organized Challenge. I am starting her one hundred day program that she actually graciously gifted to me, and that was because she had been on our podcast. So I am very I'm a big fan of Lisa, So I am going to get that book too. Excellent. Well cool, Well, kJ we always end with our love of the week, so Sarah and I can go first, since give you a minute to think about it. Sarah, I had one. Well last night we so background. You know, we do movies a lot of nights these days, because why the hell not, and the movie that we kind of usually we let the kids pick, but every once in a while we kind of foist our own choices upon them. And last night Josh is like, we're watching Groundhog Day, and let me tell you has withstood the test of time. That movie is a great movie. I would watch it tomorrow. I loved it that that movie as a hook for like writing about the concept of time. Like way too many times. I have definitely, like I think every February two or so I mentioned the movie to then get into something of like, how would you like to spend your time if you knew that you could only spend your time on that movie recently, because like it's just like classic like nineteen early nineties nineties NOSS and it's but it's really well, it's very cute, So that's good. Okay, that would be a good one. So one thing I am not personally into, but my children are loving at the moment is Avatar the Last Airbender, which the series is for seeing, so Jasper's most into it. He's my twelve year old, but my eight year old and five year old are also watching it with him. So that tends to be an every day around four o'clock kind of activity, which is a good time to have people do something that doesn't involve hitting each other. So which is which is the alternate for activity? Yeah? Yeah, get that. Yeah, that's that's something they're loving. How about you, kJ Can I do something that is a thing to buy? Oh? Sure? Yeah? Okay, So I was on Instagram recently, probably ten minutes ago, but that's not when I heard yes as one is constantly until one throws the phone across the room. And one of my friends had just ordered ice cream from Jenny's ice Cream j E n I s and I was unaware that you could do this. How does that even work? I yeah, and it's not even I thought, well, this is going to be like fifty dollars a pint because of the shipping and stuff. It wasn't that bad. I mean, it's it's pricey ice cream already, and they're pints, but this is really really delicious ice cream and you can get a box of six pints. And it was just it came yesterday and it was such a treat for all of us, just to we had new flavor. I picked out all the flavors and we all had an ice cream taste test and it was a blast. And on top of that, they ship you a large quantity of dry ice which, depending on how old your children are, better than I all all afternoon, Yester, I didn't know the ice cream had come. So I was sitting up in my office actually recording a podcast, and I just suddenly start hearing boom against chemistry class again. There were blowing They had put dry eyes and food coloring and coke bottles and they were shooting arrows at them because that's what children do. As one does anyway, So fun for everyone, plus ice cream plus ice cream. It doesn't get better than that, people, it really doesn't, ok. J, thank you so much for coming on again. And I know people have been taking notes. That's a good thing that a lot of people aren't commuting right now listening to podcast in the car, so they were able to hopefully take notes and we'll put some of these up as well. All right, thank you kJ, Thank you guys. This was so fun. Well, that was fascinating. And now we have a question from a listener who found us while she was on maternity leave. Very exciting, showed we didn't have to choose between career and family. But she's says her first kid is ten months old, she has a good work life balance. She is thinking of expanding her family, but her husband said something that disturbed her. She is fairly ambitious, working to become a director in her organization, and her husband thinks that once if she wants to work toward that goal, they shouldn't have a second child. She says, I'm already working pretty hard, and once I reach my goal, I will have to work even harder. I'd love to hear your opinion on this. You both have pretty large families and successful careers, so that's proof it's possible. Do you have any arguments with which I can convince my husband that it's feasible to have a second kid and a career. Woh, tough one. Yeah. I know. My initial reaction was WHOA. You know, it's interesting because I just went back and looked at her email and she wrote our ideal was always two kids. So I mean, I think they need to explore was that really true? Like is this his way of expressing that actually, now that he has a child and sees what it entails that right now, he's not feeling like he can handle more like maybe he just feels really really overwhelmed and he just can't conceptualize the idea of putting another kid in the mix and her continuing to work as hard as she is. And I think there need to be some very deep conversations about what they both truly want and what are they afraid of, and what exactly why he thinks that this is an impossibility, because clearly he has to know that it's possible. But my two thoughts are that either he has figured out that he really doesn't want more kids, and which is valid. Like I want to be very careful on this podcast not to give off the impression that, like everyone should have as many kids as possible. That's the best way to be awesome and that's the best of both worlds. Like no, like you should have as many kids as you feel as best for your family. And by you, I mean you know, both of you as a family deciding together, because having lots of kids where one partner doesn't want lots of kids is probably not a recipe for success. But then I also wonder if this could be sort of like still the shock period, because your daughter's ten months old and that's gonna be a really hard time and you're picturing babies, babies, babies forever. And I will say that like after having Cameron, I was like I used to want three, but forget it. Two is good. Two is already overwhelming. I can't And I even gave stuff away, like I had to rebuy stuff for Genevieve. So I do wonder if, like maybe some deep conversations, some discussions of logistics and fears, like what exactly is he afraid of? And also take sure of time may help with this. But Laura, I am very curious as see your thoughts. Yeah, I mean I don't know if there's I mean, I think if she wants a second child, she should be very transparent and say, listen, I would like to have a second child. I would like to know exactly what is your concern about this? I mean, I think a lot of people don't have this conversation necessarily, and so you're both sort of hinting at it back and forth. And so if she knows that that is what she wants, she should say it and then ask, you know, what he thinks about it? What's his concern? Because if it's just about her career, like I think, then that she can manage it seems like that's possibly not exactly what he's concerned about. I wondered if it was that he is doing the lion's share of the childcare, which is possible, Like she didn't really talk about that, but she said she had a very good work life balance, which I wonder if that means he doesn't. I don't you know. If that's the case, then that needs to be addressed to say, well, is it that we will need more help because she's traveling a lot, she's working late, and he's feeling overwhelmed because he's dealing with a baby every night. If that's the case, then if she wants another kid, she needs to deal with that, right, she needs to help solve that problem for him. If it's that he was the kind of guy who really really liked sleeping in on Saturday mornings and having a leisurely much, well, I mean, honestly you lost that already. So I mean if by having one, so I don't know what to say that two is not going to change that, Like that is actually not going to change that at all. But I mean maybe that's an argument too. I mean, you could have three, it won't change that you have four. It won't change that you're not getting brunched back for a long time. So I'm not having civilized brunch anyway. Yeah, But I mean I'm being humorous here, but I do think she needs to figure out if she states in clear terms that this is what she wants, then he can state what his objections are and then she can work with us. And if it's absolutely that he doesn't want another kid, Well, then you either have to make your peace with it or figure out something completely else. But that's something for an entirely different podcast that they need to figure out. Yeah, we would love if listeners have any additional opinions or thoughts regarding the situation. I think it is an interesting question, so feel free to weigh in exactly all right, Well, this has been best of both worlds. We've been talking summer books and we'll be back next week with more on making work and life fit together. Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us next time for more on making work and life work together.