Style Advice for Working Women with Lani Inlander of Real Life Style

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Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vanderkam. I'm a mother of four, an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hart Hunger. I'm a mother of three, practicing physician and blogger. On the side, we are two working parents who love our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals. We want you to get the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This is episode one hundred and forty two, which is first airing in late April. We're going to be talking with Alani Inlander, who is the owner of Real Life Style, a styling firm in DC. It's a great interview and we want to dive right into it. We're going to do a little bit more of the rehashing afterwards. Instead of an intro, we're going to do more of an outro this time. So we're going to go ahead and dive right into this topic that we have heard from so many people, making a good wardrobe as a working mom. Here we go. Well, Sarah and I are delighted to welcome Lonnie Inlander to the program. She is a Washington, DC based stylist and is the owner of Real Lifestyle. She's going to tell us a little bit about herself and her business. So Lonnie, welcome. Thank you so much for having me. I am a longtime listener, so I'm thrilled to be here. Yes, my name is Lannie in Lander. I am the owner and chief stylist of Real Lifestyle, a luxury style consulting firm in Washington, d C. We style private clients, We give corporate style presentations, We run an e course called Where Your Power, and we teach other women to start their own personal styling businesses. I should also mention that we have a shopping blog that I've been writing for almost nine years. I don't know if that's as long as you, Sarah and I'm both there at the dawn of the blogging revolution. Yes, exactly, exactly over here, so crazy one, but you like it? Yeah, that's great, But I love it. And I live with my two boys who are ages six and eight, and my wonderful husband in an apartment in the city. Awesome, awesome, And so you know, for people who have never used a stylist before, which probably is the majority of people. Maybe you can tell us what it involves, you know why people tend to come to you. So people usually come to us when they have reached their breaking points of not knowing what to wear. The frustration level has gotten to them that they are willing to ask for outside help. Finally, a lot of people come to us after they've tried services like stitch fixs and the like and realize, you know, these may have worked for me for a while, but now I need something more personal to me. And the first thing that we do with everybody, no matter what, no matter if they have ten pieces of clothing in their closets, is we go into their closet for what we call the wardrobe makeover. So this is editing and organizing what they have, of course within an inch of its life. But even if they only have ten pieces of clothing, which you would be surprised at how little clothes some people have, or they have two rooms full of clothes, which also happens. The whole point is to go through all of the clothes with them, really see where they've been, you know, to read the tea leaves of their closet, talk to them, have them put on their clothes, See how they feel when they put the clothes on. See the look in their eye when they put on certain pieces, the reaction to it. You know, I've been hanging onto this even though it doesn't work anymore, because and we write down all of this information along with you know, their sizes, the brands, they've been buying, their best silhouettes, their best necklines, their best colors, and we create what should be their new fashion you know, uniform, their new fashion formula where they should go from here, and we really create it with them. And then the second appointment is the shopping appointment. And what clients love is that we do all the legwork for them. So they show up at the store, we have a shop, we have a fitting room filled with clothes already, so there's a rolling rack filled with clothes picked out just for them, according to their specific filling lists, their budget, their best colors, their everything only for them. They didn't have to do anything, they don't even have to walk onto the floor. Most of our clients hate shopping, They hate the pressure of having to find their whole wardrobe, and we have done all of that for them. So after that appointment, anything we haven't found will order online. Then we'll meet them back at their house. The third appointment is where the magic happens. We create outfits. We go through those last draggling pieces and then we create outfits with the new piece and the old pieces, and then they have a look book of these magical outfits with every single piece, accessories, shoes, bags included of these perfect outfits for every single part of their life date, night, weekend, with kids, work, work, travel. They never have to think, They just have to look at the picture and they can get dressed in five minutes. Well that sounds good. I know a lot of our listeners would love to get redressed in it in five minutes, and including Sarah, who has a question about motivation. Yes, oh my gosh, So I have to say that whole thing was just like I'm listening and I'm like, yes, I think it may be like almost time to do this. That was so cool. But yeah, like I will say, personally, I think I went through a phase after I came back from turning leave where I felt a little bit more motivated about getting dressed and I had some outfits and then you know, recently, I've sort of slid to the point where a lot of times I'm just wearing black jeans, which not even really supposed to be wearing, like boots, and like sometimes even just like a T shirt with like this work jacket with the logo on it, And I'm like, eh, because i have a little bit more of a leadership a pla, Sarah, like this is a well actually it's kind of like almost like a like a jogging type material. But in my defense, like it was given to me by like the director of our whole division. Like I I don't really like they never said like you couldn't wear them, and there are other doctors that also wear that on it, you know, team player. It does have the logo, so it's fully branded. And my workplate tends to be very cold, so even when I'm wearing something nicer under it, a lot of times, well an hour and I'm freezing, so I'm covering up with this like schlovey looking thing and I'm like, wow, like this this is not good because I am you know, I'm in a leadership position. I'm serving as a role model to my residence. I don't really want them dressing like that. I don't really want my colleagues kind of feeling like I look like I don't know. Do you run into this a lot? And what do you think somebody in my position should do to get out of this slump? Right? Well, we run into this a lot in DC. And I have to say that I started my career in New York. I worked in New York as a stylist for you know, fifteen years before I moved to DC, and I was quite shocked at how badly people allowed themselves to show up to the workplace, even when they were the boss in DC, because they were like, nobody cares I'm working with You know, I'm the only woman in this whole office of men. No one's looking at me. I don't want anyone to look at me. It doesn't matter. But what matters is how you feel about yourself. And that's really the motivation. The motivation shouldn't just be external. The motivation has to be internal. And the only thing you have to do to get the motivation back is to wear one cute outfit, really make an effort one day and see how much better you feel. Write down how much better you feel all day. You're gonna have so much more of a spring to your step. You're gonna feel better in your interactions with your kids and your husband and your co workers every moment of the day if you have a blazer on instead of a cardigan, if you have on, you know, pants instead of jeans, or maybe not, depending on your work plays. But really, if you make an effort and you have a coordinated outfit on, and you've you know, brushed your hair and put on a little bit of makeup, you just feel so much better about yourself. I believe that true. Yeah, I really like jeans, Lonnie. Do you have any sort of general rules for working mom wardrobes here? I mean, what are kind of the workhorse basic pieces we should be thinking about having. Okay, so I feel very very strongly about the workhorse basic pieces. I feel so strongly that coincidentally, before you even asked me this question, we just did a whole series on the blog refreshing all of these pieces and giving people exact links and pictures to these basic pieces. So we have five must haves that we believe in. Number one is a comfortable blazer, because, as I like to say, nobody feels good in a cardigan. So one of our favorite pieces is actually the Mamal Floor Jardigan, so true story. If you google Jardigan, you will come up with a picture of my coworker because we were one of the first people to do a story on the jard again, because we were so obsessed with it when it came out. Meaning jacket plus cardigan, Yes, jacket plus cardigan hybrid between the two, yes, equals jard again. But it doesn't have to be that. It can just be a comfortable cardigan, so sorry, not cardigan. A comfortable blazer, and a comfortable blazer could be made out of ponte, It could be a sweater blazer, it could be a scuba fabric. And so many different brands doing these right now and why dj Bowden Veronica Beard has an incredible Scoogle blazer. Athleta has an incredible Scooba blazer that's a little more sporty and cool if you have a more casual workplace. Majestic makes one that's more of like a cozy, fleecy, stretchy material if you want something even softer and more casual. But there are so many people who are doing more comfortable stretchy blazers now that you have no excuse to be wearing a card again. So the number one piece of advice we give people. The first thing you should do take the old ratty card again off the back of your chair and replace it with one of these fresh comfortable blazers. Good advice, all right, What else doing in our wardrobes? A perfectly tailored trouser And what we mean by that is a trouser that you can go to a meeting in with anyone in your office, all the way up the chain, feel really good and that fits you perfectly, like you've hadded hem to the right length for your shoes. It looks good on your butt, it does not doing any weird wrinkling. It's going to look good when you get off the airplane. So with this we also recommend pante a lot because a lot of people work in business casual environments and they don't need the really tailored trousers anymore. We still love a tailored trouser if you're willing to go there, and of course you know theory is always uh the backup for that. But Ponte is the new fabric that everybody is loving and is super comfy, and for that, NYDJ makes a Ponte trowser. That is God's gift to postpartum women. I can't how it's oh yeah. I mean we had someone tried on the other week and say, like, did they make these for people like me? Like I just had a baby. They're so incredible coming back after maternity. And we've looked into that one way. Yeah. Also, Bowden makes different Ponte trousers that they make in petite, up to tall sizes and plus sizes, so anyone can find their size. Mm Lafleur's Foster pant. You have that, right, I do. And I have the Theory black pants too, so I'm like wooh, go me. Yeah, and I believe I have those nydj ones. So we're just hitting all the bases. Awesome, awesome, But yeah, the Foster pant is incredible skinny pants and it's really comfortable. Right. Also Nick and Zoe makes a skinny and a straight version of a pull on pant that looks really professional but is super comfortable and light and easy and fits a whole bunch of body types. Who else, Oh Theory I want to mention they have two particular styles that are good for people with body types that can be difficult to fit. So they have the Demetria, which is incredible for really really tall people. It has thirty four inch in cem I believe. And then they have something called the Trica t r ee C, a Trica that is incredible if you are petite. They make a pull on version that if you're petite and bigger on the bottom. We've had a few people recently that just could not find anything else to fit them, and they were willing to invest because it fits so well and it just was magical and nothing else was really working. So that is a great option. Awesome, all right, So we've got our comfortable blazer, we've got our perfectly tailored pants. Okay, number three Trush shoes you can work in, yes, walk in. Sorry, Truss shoes you can walk in you work and walk yes, yes you should be able to work and walk in them. But so many people when they have a conference or something like that, they'll put on these really ugly shoes and say, oh, well I need to be comfortable. No, your everyday shoes should be comfortable, and you should have a professional looking shoes that you can wear to a conference all day, look professional, and be comfortable. So what we like is for people to find something that has a pointed toe and a little bit of a lift in the back like a block heeled, even if it's only half an inch so it's a flat still, but it's just got a little bit of a lift, and if you're wearing that with a pant, it can almost look like a heel. So really good example of this is the Vesta Skimmer from Colhon and all of these are in my blogs by the way, so people can get exact links. But that is the perfect example of a flat that can look like a heel when you're wearing a pants. So Cohan of course, is always you know a good bet. Clarks usually has a few pairs of shoes hiding in there that are really stylish, believe it or not. If you go in the front of the store, they have great fashion pieces right now. Now Everlane has a new flat called the forty hour Flat that looks so terrific and so stylish. Mark Fisher makes a pump called the Zala Pump that we're huge fans of and it's a block heel, so it's a lot more stable for a lot of people. And our new discovery in shoes that we're so excited about is Ally Shoes. It's a woman owned company out of New York, Believe. The website is Allieshoes dot NYC. It's also in the blog and they make three inch pumps, a classic pump with a skinny heel with arch supports and padding built in. Oh. I am totally going to check those out, because as you were talking about all these flats, I'm like, no, no, no, some of us are short, Like I'm not wearing flats, but I know I'm always on the lookout for comfortable heels. Yes, yes, well, Clark's has a great heel. AGL has a great heel. They have a cap toasted pump that's amazing. But the mark Fish is Zala a pump if you want the more modern looking block heel is a great one, but this Ally Shoe pump. I stopped wearing heels completely. I had foot surgery in my twenties. I'm not messing with it. I don't ever want to do that again, especially while running after two little boys. Right, I can now wear heels two events. I'm not wearing them all day, but I can go to a three or four hour event and run around in heels, and I am completely fine in the ally heels. It's incredible. All of our clients are buying them awesome all right, comfortable shoes. We're on that. Yes, So next one a lightweight, structured bag, so some of our favorites are low and Sons has a tote with a changeable outside sleeve, so instead of having to change the inside of your bag all the time to match your outfit, you can change the outside. Why didn't somebody think of this before? Right? And they also make a backpack called the Rowledge that I've been carrying when I'm traveling with the kids and I'm not you know, a backpack kind of person. You might imagine I don't like the sacrifice style if I don't have to, and it's terrific. It has it's for everything for the Communian woman. We also love Dagny Dover, Everlane Kuyana. They have great work totes. Dagnie Dover particularly has one like Loansn's where it has pocket for your water bottle and your computer and everything under the sun and if you're looking for something. Vegan Pixie Mood and Matt and Nat are two really great brands. Awesome all right, So we've got the bag, We've got the shoes, we've got the pants, we've got the comfortable blazer. And what's our rounding out? Number five? Power color? Power color? Okay, what's going But okay, you have to know what your power color is because if you're presenting to somebody, you have to wear color. So your power color is color that makes you feel the most confident, gets you the most compliments, makes your eye sparkle, makes you look like you need the least amount of makeup. So two suggestions for this are, of course, you know, a blouse, a shift dress. You can go all out with the suits. You can do a blazer. But our two brand suggestions. Have you heard of the shirts? So this is another This is just like Ally shoes. This is genius. Of course, woman created a blouse that doesn't gape, so she panted in this technology. She was actually on Oprah when the show was still on because this was so revolutionary. So there is a button placket and you see the regular buttons in the front, but in between every button is a hidden button, so your blouse never gapes. I have a bowden shirt dress like that and it works perfectly. Oh that's interesting that they have little like mini snaps that you can't see that are like between So it's like a button down. It's basically like structure like a button down, right, So I can totally see how that would work very nicely on a feaded button down shirt. Yeah. And what's interesting, Yeah, what most people the shirt it's the hyphenshirt dot com. What most people do when they create things like this is they make it all really basic. But these are really fashionable pieces. They have incredible colors and prints. But you can find your power color in these shirts because they have so many different colors. And then another brand is Norah Gardner. So she dresses a lot of anchors and you know, other people who have to be on TV and in front of a lot of people who need to wear color. And she has a lot of incredible colors and really comfortable fabrics and great dresses and jackets. All right, so Lonnie, we're gonna pause right quick to take a quick add break. Well just a quite pause one minute. All right, Well we are back with Lonnie and Lander, who is a professional stylist the owner of Real Lifestyle in Washington, Dcate, Lonnie, can you just say your website again for the people who are like, Oh, yeah, she's had all these links on the blog, but where was that blog? What was the name of Again? Sure, our website is real hyphen Life, hyphenstyle dot com. Awesome, all right, so we'll make sure that people are checking that out. So Sarah had a question I related to this for me too, because so she's quite petite and so a lot of stores don't necessarily carry her size. And you mentioned some brands there too that you might have trouble finding in like a Nord Stream or big department store or something like that. Or if you live in a place where there aren't a whole lot of boutique shopping opportunities online shopping, how do you make that work? Like, how do you make it so that you are going to find the right stuff and any tech techniques you have to make that work out well? Right, So that is a really good question, because it is it can be super tough. So two things. Number One, take your measurements. Most brands have measurements posted, so for instance, if your petite or particularly tall, just knowing your en seam can save you so much time because these things are posted online. Check the in seame number one and you'll see where it is number two. You will figure out over time what are the brands that fit you in these sizes, And it's okay to have these go to brands and go back to the ones that fit you, and also doing some research in the store just to figure out what your size is if you can, and then going and ordering online is helpful even if they don't have the selection that you want in the store. Great to get a baseline. Yeah, yeah, And Sarah, you had a question about how much to spend on clothes too, right, Yeah, like do you have a go to ballpark? Like, I don't know, what would you spend on like a mini refresh? What would you spend on like an overhaul. I know there's not going to be a one size fits all answer, but I also wonder. So my thought process goes back to the old fashioned What Not to Wear, where they like completely made over somebody's wardrobe and it was like five thousand dollars. And the funny thing is like, back then that was like an astronomical amount of money to my ears. I mean now it's still a lot of money, but less like frightening. But how much do you feel like is a normal amount to spend on clothing. So this is a tough question and it is something that we struggle with when people ask us what they should spend because it's hard to tell people, well, this is how much of your hard earned money you should part with. But what we have foul is that when people need a refresh, a mini refresh is can be about two thousand dollars A little bit more of a refresh between two and five thousand dollars. So the what not to where people were onto something right, they those were like something, Those were like two thousand and five dollars or something. Okay, well run since they're true that much. But yeah, and are you better off? I mean spending big on like those five workhorse pieces you talked about and maybe budgeting some smaller amounts for accessories. I mean, how would you see that splitting splitting down the middle there? Right, So everyone's wardrobe is going to be different, and some people are Some people do better with a smaller, more capsule wardrobe, and other people require more variety, either because of their position at work or just how they like to get dressed. But if you have invested in these five pieces, there were these five elements, you're really going to have a lot more flexibility in your wardrobe and those this is the place where you should invest. And then after that, the blouses can cost a little less. You can look for a blouse on sale at the end of the season as long as it's perfect for you. Don't buy just because it's on sale. Yes, let's talk about that right. Oh, because I know the number you just said, We're going to get mail from our listeners be like, ah, two thousand dollars is a huge amount. But what happens is that most time people aren't spending it in one go. What they're doing is they're buying like a fifty dollars shirt here and there, and then maybe it gets worn and maybe it doesn't, but there's nothing systematic about it, and so that these little amounts wind up adding up. It's what you're arguing is that you should invest sort of a bigger amount consciously, I mean possibly with the help of a stylist for instance, that that might be a wiser way to approach a wardrobe versus the bit by bit that people tend to do. Right, So that is exactly what we tell people is people do not realize how much money they spend unconsciously on a little here, a little there, this thing on sale. The amount of things people pull out of their closet that they wore once or not at all is unbelievable. So the thing that we concentrate on is cost per wear, because every single piece of clothing that we buy with them, they are wearing over and over and over. So the cost per wear is going to be so much lower than a twenty dollars shirt that they got on sale but didn't wear or wore one time, rather than a two hundred dollars shirt that they're going to wear every week or every other week. That's a great point. So cost per wear and something like the black pants, I mean, you could have like a huge amount of wears on a pair of black pants right right, and like the NYDJ pants that were huge fans of. I think there are one hundred and fifteen dollars, So it isn't that that's no money. But if you're wearing them three times a week, and trust me, no one's going to notice. If you're wearing the same black pants three times a week, you can that's nothing. Even at the end of the season, Lonnie, I feel seen that you just said that you could wear the same pants three times in a week, it would be okay. Although I will add I normally work from home, so there's not really the same worry that somebody might might see the same thing for our listeners who do work from home, for instance, do you have any jeans recommendations, so people who do you want to look cute but can wear real casual clothes. Do you have favorite jeans and brands of jeans? Well, from budget to more very expensive. I can say we actually love uniclow jeans if you want something budget, especially if you're working from home and you're like, I don't want to buy two hundred dollars jeans to work from home. For the more expensive ones, we love Jbrand, we love Page, we love good American. Those are all the ones that fit really well and are really comfortable. Excellent advice. Well, we know we need to get Lannie out of here because she has a kid. Event. This is the wonderful thing of best of both worlds. We have awesome working moms who have things going on professionally, things going on personally here, but we always end with our love of the week, So this is something that is awesome we'll probably do something fashion related, just because that's what we're talking about. Sarah, do you have something for us? Yeah? I will. My fashion love of the week is my Chanelle sunglasses circa twenty sixteen that are still going strong. I still love them. They don't look terribly out of style. They have a few scratches because I don't take care of anything I own, but they still look fine and I love their polarizing lenses, so that's great. So I've been wearing these Rothy's flats, which I know you mentioned the idea of finding a pair of comfortable shoes. I don't know if they're quite formal enough to wear anywhere that's not casual, but my life is pretty casual. You love Rothy's for casual. You love Rothy's for casual too. Well, they advertise on my other podcast, So I got sense a pair and I actually really wear them. I'll go ahead and say that on this podcast. So their flats are very comfortable. So, Lonnie, how about you, what's your love of the week? Can I do a beauty one? Of course, you could do whatever you want, So static nails? Okay. I had a moment of weakness on Instagram and was like, if it's only one, that's pretty good, I know, right, Well, I had a second one recently, but I'm waiting for it to arrive to see if it really works. I'll let you know. So Static Nails is an eco friendly, like five free or whatever they call it, nail polish that is long lasting, but it comes off and goes on like regular nail polish. So I decided, you know, in this last year or two, I need to be grown up and have nice nails. Right. So I was going to the salon and I have such terrible nails that I had to do the dip in order to keep nail polish on my nails. But the time of going to the salon in between, you know the rest of my working mom life was making me crazy. I would sit there and just my skin would crawl. At the time, I was wasting. So I was like, well, might as well try it. And this stuff actually stays on. It's supposed to stand for ten days, but on my terrible nails, it stays on like five to seven. There's a primer and a top coat. But I put it on my blog and so many people bought it and everybody loves it. And it really really works. Static nails, and they have gorgeous colors. Awesome, all right, static nails. I'll have to check that out. I've never managed to keep nail puls but you know, maybe someday I'll be a grown up too. Right, Well, this color Mademoiselle is like a light pink sofa chips. Nobody knows if somebody notices, Okay, because I tip it in the car leaving the salon. Kay, so it doesn't make sense to go to the salon in the first place, yes, exactly. All right, well, Lonnie, thank you guys so much for joining us. We really appreciate it and remind our listeners where they can find you again Real lifestyle dot Com with hyphen so Real Hyphenlife hyphenstyle dot Com. All right, well, thank you so much, Lonnie. We appreciate it. Fancy, Thank you, Lannie. It was great. All right. Well, that was fascinating. I was taking notes. Were you taking notes, Sarah? Yeah? I loved that interview. Oh my gosh. I mean I feel a little bit motivated. I feel a little what I'm to get back for our listeners who were like listening to this while driving their car because they're like, wait, I can't write anything down while I'm driving my car, but I am sure in your blog post that you will have a handy summary of some of the fantastic items that she mentioned. Plus they are all on her blog. That's true, so we can get those lists there, and I'll put some up on my blog as well. But yeah, what did you feel inspired to go buy anything after? I felt I did feel a little bit inspired to go buy something. I did. I felt a little bit inspired to maybe make this more of a project for myself and one that I'm going to invest a little bit of time and financial means into. I think, I mean, I actually liked I know you mentioned that we may get a lot of mail, you know, regarding the number figure that she threw out there. I know that, for example, as a resident like that is a completely inaccessible range for me, I was not going to be able to drop anywhere near that on clothing. However, I also think it's bad when we never mentioned numbers, which is why I'm doing a lot more of that like on my blog, because it's helpful to have a ballpark of what you know, a wardrobe filled with quality pieces that are designed to last and enough things that you're literally not wearing the same two outfits every day would cost Actually thought it was very helpful because then in my mind, I'm like, well, maybe I'll think about, like what percentage of my quote unquote allowance money I would want to devote towards refreshing my wardrobe, and then like one, I would want to do that. So how would you do that though with your allowance? Because from what I gathered, the numbers she threw out were bigger than your monthly allowance. So sure, how would you then do the accounting? I mean not that you can't go spend the money, but like how would you do the accounting for it? Then? No, so no, that's a great question. So I mean I don't usually spend my entire quote unquote allowance, so I would just save up. So I've done that before, Like I bought my MacBook Pro with my quote unquote allowance. I think I may have overdrawn my allowance. My MacBook Pro cost over two thousand dollars because it's like a really good computer. But I had just kind of let some money accumulate in my allowance fund from month to month because actually the you know, the budgeting program I use lets you do that. So if I don't spend, if I have a couple remaining hundred dollars one month, then that's going to roll over. So if I really wanted to do this and kind of feel like I had the money to truly spend and treat myself, probably what I would do is say something like, you know what, January twenty twenty one, I want to see if I can save up you know, two thousand in my account and then do like a full on mini refresh and just commit to that. Now, I'm just throwing that out there. I haven't committed to it in my mind yet, but I'm sort of in the pre contemplation phase because really, I'm not kidding. It's gotten a little bad life for that too. I also feel like maybe I need a refresh in the sense that I, well, I wear the same thing every day anyway, but that's a you know, fewer people seeing it. I may be slightly up on the scale from where I was before. I mean, we've talked about weight going up and down in the past, but you're in that weird breast feeding phase where you're hungry and like, yeah, there's that, But I also like just eating when I'm hungry. So part of me is like, well, maybe this is just the size I should be, And I kind of, you know, drawn to that idea of like, you know, eat when you're hungry, and then that's the size you are as long as you're exercising as well. And so if that's the case, then I probably should shop for that size. And maybe that would involve of a stylist. I have used one in the past when I was living in New York. I wrote about the experience in one hundred and sixty eight hours if anyone wants to check that out. But I totally agree with what Lannie was saying that if you are going to invest a big chunk of money, first realize you may be doing it already, like you may be dribbling it out in like one hundred dollars purchases here and there. Second, if you are going to spend a big chunk at once, it would be better to do it mindfully, perhaps with a bit of expert help. That's somebody who can say, you know, that looks good on you, that maybe not so much, Like are you sure you want that? I think that that could be very valuable. So spending mindfully always a good idea, and hopefully a lot of our listeners will be doing that after listening to this episode. And I'm thinking maybe I need a stylist one of these days too. So our question this week is from a podcast listener in Germany. So, Sarah, you want me to read that? Yes? Okay, all right? Sure, I forgot which one of us was that's reading it. I'm feeding the baby again, so yet another multitasking session. If anyone's listening to this, all right? The question. I am a fellow physician and will soon be transitioning from direct patient care to a more office based job in public health. So far, I almost never needed to use email or any other office tools professionally for my daily job. What are your tips and tricks about how to organize my workday when I don't have a strict schedule as in patient care. I would really like to get a headstart on this, and I imagine that you, Sarah, might have experienced a similar situation, so any advice is appreciated. Yeah, I love this question. I mean I definitely went through a similar transition. I still do clinical work for about forty percent of my time, but it's not no longer the bulk of what I'm doing, so I've had to develop my own strategies to make things work. So I can share what's worked for me so far. I would say the number one thing is blocking out my time and just being really strict about not letting clinical responsibilities bleed into my deeper work time. That means, like, if I'm going to spend the morning working on the residence schedule, that's on my checklist of things to do, so I have a purpose for that time, and I have an amount of time that's just like not nobody's allowed to bother me with anything else. I also really have been working on making sure that meetings have a purpose and are not scheduled so that they break up my days. So I'm a little bit stingy. I started out and if somebody wanted a meeting time, I would just give them every single moment that I was free. And I quickly learned that that is a bad practice because I'll end up with like a fifteen minute at ten am on Monday, and then like a you know, another one like on Tuesday at three, and then you know, they're like scattered all over the place, and then it's hard to use the time between them. It's much much better if I can make it work to have like a day that's like meetings and then a half a day or a full day that is not meetings that is free time to actually get some of those things done that you talk about in all the meetings. So that's been a big thing for me. I do Inbox zero weekly. I know people debate whether or not that is necessary or a thing. I mean, I think, I think whether or not you actually clear out every messagers just have a way of systematically going through them to treat out them. It doesn't necessarily matter which is yours. But for me, I like to get everything to zero every Friday, or at least every other Friday, because otherwise I do miss little things that people that could come back to bite me a little bit. And one thing that I do when I clear it out is I have a folder called waiting on or deal with later, kind of a thing where if I want to delete it, but I know, I know I need to look back at it, and it could be as simple as like, oh, I know I need to send this out to the residence, but I really shouldn't send it till March, so I don't want to keep looking at it now, or if it's something like a reimbursement where I submitted it and I'm just waiting to make sure that it happened. I put it in there, and I just glanced through all those saved files weekly and then delete what's no longer relevant. But it's not like staring at me in my inbox. If you have a job that has a yearly flow to it, creating some kind of master's calendar to help you make your to do list is helpful. I'm quickly learning that my work now revolves around the academic calendar, and the things that we have to do are kind of like the same each year. So I don't know if your job has that circular to it, but it's amazing how people could be surprised about things that come up again and again. So yeah, those are kind of the things that I've developed over the past year or so of having a job that's more like this, and I expect that I still have plenty of tricks and things to learn, but I feel like I've made progress since the beginning, and I think give yourself time to settle in to the new rhythm because it doesn't come instantly. Yeah, I agree with that it doesn't come instantly. But I think if you start out with some good habits, like setting blocks of time for as Sarah said, the different projects that or the types of work that you are going to have to do. If you have blocks carved out every week for working on certain projects, then you know it will happen, and then you don't get surprised by that. I would also be very careful about email because, as people have found, it can take over their whole lives. I mean, email will expand to fill all available space, and so you have to consciously choose to give it a certain amount of space. You know, if you are expected to respond to things quite frequently, you might be best off saying you'll be on for twenty minutes and then off for like two hours, and then on for twenty minutes and off for two hours, so then you're responding to stuff fairly quickly. I mean two hours is really not that much time. It is close to instant. I mean you could have been traveling and there in a meeting or whatever, but keeping the time open when you're not in your inbox allows you to make progress on other things. I mean, our listener is going to discover very quickly that there are people she works with who never do anything but email because they're constantly going into their inbox and then getting distracted by another message. And they are doing something and then they get distracted by another message. So if you cannot start that, you'll be in a much better place. Well, this has been best of both worlds. We've mostly been talking with Lannie and Lander are stylist about all the great clothes we should have. We'll put links on the website and we will be back next week with more on making work and life fit together. Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the shoe box dot com, are at the Underscore shoe Box on Instagram, and you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us next time for more on making work and life work together.