E320- When is it OKAY For A Dog To Bite Someone's Face?

[SPEAKER_00]: Hello no bad dog army welcome back to the no bad dogs podcast and my second youtube channel Guys, I just got up the phone with a dog owner and he was asking me when is it appropriate for his dog to attack people randomly
[SPEAKER_00]: The answer is never, but where is that threshold of neurotic behavior and warranted behavior for a bite?
[SPEAKER_00]: When is it appropriate for a dog trainer, a behaviorist, or a professional in any industry with the dog to say, you kind of deserve to get bit versus that's never acceptable.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so this dog owner, respectfully, if you're listening and watching,
[SPEAKER_00]: And he even admitted he's making up every excuse he possibly can to make sure that his dog doesn't get put down and that he's making a good decision.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, because I only consulted with him online, that's not really my say.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what I did say is look, this guy was driving in his car and his dog was in the backseat and his dog attacked his sister randomly.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, what I said was, that's not okay, that's probably the dog's genetics going a little bit haywire.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: You should be talking to the breeder more than anything, more than a trainer.
[SPEAKER_00]: He said, well, could it have been because the dog was protective of the backseat?
[SPEAKER_00]: Could it have been because the dog's blanket was back there?
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: These are all potentially warranted reasons for a dog to get upset.
[SPEAKER_00]: But where is that line in the sand?
[SPEAKER_00]: Where is that threshold?
[SPEAKER_00]: Where is that ceiling?
[SPEAKER_00]: Where the dog goes too far?
[SPEAKER_00]: And it is not safe, not normal, and really points back to the dog's genetic disposition.
[SPEAKER_00]: Meaning, if your mom was seven feet tall and your dad was eight feet tall, chances are you're gonna be pretty big.
[SPEAKER_00]: And with breeding dogs, the reason why people breed dogs
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me back up.
[SPEAKER_00]: The reason why people breed dogs in general is they're looking for specific behavioral traits, specific features, physically, aesthetically, even.
[SPEAKER_00]: When I got Burley, my self-African Massive, he's a Borble.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, he is a Borble, boy, boy is he a Borble.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you've been listening, if you've been watching, you know what I'm saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he is a dog that I really like, but he's also a really challenging dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: And one of the things that I talked to the breeder about is I said, hey, I have young kids.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a young family, I live in a neighborhood filled with other young kids and young families.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I want a really protective dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want a dog when I travel all over the world to help people, by the way, I'm coming to England this month in September.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm also doing a seminar at my facility in New York next month in October and I'm going to Dananda.
[SPEAKER_00]: and Australia and New Zealand in November, and I hope to see you there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want you to bring your dog to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to work with your dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to help you with your dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to change your life with your dog tickets linked in the description.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said, I travel a lot, and my family is home, left alone sometimes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I said, I want to really protective dog, but I want to dog that isn't ever going to go too far.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so my breeder in Texas had said, okay, I think I have the perfect dog for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm breeding this dog in this dog, and they both have those features.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to be big.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to be loyal.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to be protective.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to be scary.
[SPEAKER_00]: They are going to do everything that you want them to do and they're obsessed with kids.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're great with kids.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're gentle with kids.
[SPEAKER_00]: Burley, gentle yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Great with kids.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, gentle with me.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does he listen?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does he want to listen?
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is he reactive?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does he want to be a jerk?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does he listen?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: So my point is is when I was when you're breeding dogs, you're looking for and I'm not going to, I'm not going to call out this breeder because it's actually a well known German Shepherd breeder that people would probably recognize and
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, the reason why I actually made this video instead of posting it is because he talked about the breeder a lot and I didn't want to do that to the breeder because I don't think it's fair and that's not really my style.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, that's the conversation you have.
[SPEAKER_00]: The breeder to say, hey, um, the dog you bred is attacking people.
[SPEAKER_00]: The guy also was attacked by his dog because, and here's the thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: The guy, the guy was getting up with a remote in his hand and he
[SPEAKER_00]: and I said, yeah, that's not appropriate.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not normal.
[SPEAKER_00]: You should be able to get up from your own couch without your dog attacking you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he said, well, could it have been because I grunted?
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is it like some dog owners get into this unrealistic unfair place in their mind where they are scraping the barrel to make this make sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have empathy for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have understanding
[SPEAKER_00]: But as a professional and as a dog owner of my whole life of 30 plus years, hello, my half-dad's my wife.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's not appropriate.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the line that gets drawn.
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, going back to the car, the dog attacked his sister in the car randomly and he said, well, could it have been the protective thing?
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: But a dog that has a good disposition and a good temperament may just give a little, like, ugh.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe won't want to move, maybe huffs and pops and moves away, but they're not going to attack, and that's the difference between a dog who has a good temperament and a dog who has got some genetic issues in my opinion.
[SPEAKER_00]: right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Same thing with you getting up.
[SPEAKER_00]: You get up and you grunt.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how this guy thought that this was a reason for the dog to attack and I know that you're probably listening and watching and I know that you're reflecting on all of this and so and I said to him that's not a reason for a dog to attack you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like can your dog's are
[SPEAKER_00]: Sentient beings, can they get upset?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, can they get frustrated?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, can they get sad?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, can they get mad?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, they can get all of these things.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're allowed to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're animals.
[SPEAKER_00]: But when you're living with an animal in your own home and you're afraid to get up off your couch, that's unacceptable.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is not okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when you have a dog that bites you and attacks you for no reason,
[SPEAKER_00]: don't try to make up excuses of why you think that's happening because you don't you think because the thing at the end of the day guys is it doesn't mean you have to put down your dog that's the thing as I told this guy as I said I don't think you have to put down your dog so I want you to get that out of your mind or or I said I'm not going to tell you you have to put down your dog and that was like one big relief form because the entire time he was talking I think he was just making sure I didn't say that because I think he talked
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not even saying that utilizing the dog would be out of the picture.
[SPEAKER_00]: All I'm saying is, I wouldn't, you don't, there's things that you can do before that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I don't want to get too far into the rabbit hole in dog training, but
[SPEAKER_00]: I just want to talk about that ceiling.
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, one of the things that the dog does is he attacks the other dog for really small reasons.
[SPEAKER_00]: He said that he was feeding his dog watermelon and then his dog attacked the other dog because he was accepting watermelon and he said the dog doesn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: The other dog who attacked didn't even like watermelon.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, that's not appropriate.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is not okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can another dog come over and go, hey, what you got?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can the other dog come over and even say, hey, I'm growling, get the heck out of here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But can he get off out of the lay down the position go over and just nail the dog because they're accepting something?
[SPEAKER_00]: That is not okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now you guys know my whole trademark and you know my whole logo, no bad dogs.
[SPEAKER_00]: What that means is because I'm a dog trainer, 99.9% of the time people come in with dog problems, I let them know that they are the issue.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what that means.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it doesn't mean that some dogs aren't born to have the genetic disposition to actually be bad dogs.
[SPEAKER_00]: you know so i'm not saying that this dog is bad either i'm just saying it's possible that this dog could be a bad egg and the thing is is it has this guy done anything to make this worse has this guy done anything to uh... make it better
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's what I found out really quickly is, and this is why I told them, is I said, there's a good chance knowing with my experience and all the dogs I've worked with judging by what you're telling me and what you're doing with the dog is that you probably can't get the dog to do anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: Good chance like so then his dog is in his office and he's yelling at the dog sit sit sit sit sit sit sit sit sit sit sit sit the dog literally just walks off just walks off.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well yeah man that's the point right and the guy was like you know frustrated with the dog for sure but it shouldn't be a frustrating thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It should just be an eye-opening thing like yo-man
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's the thing, you want your dog to stop doing these very advanced, in-depth, emotional, stop doing these things that we don't quite understand as humans, but body can't put his dog into a sit with nothing going on in the room.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's the first step, you know, he was like, well, what do I do?
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, okay, well, you got to audit your baseline.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's how he's tell people, if you have the most aggressive dog in the world, but you also have level three and really good obedience, you're gonna be much safer, much calmer, much more successful than the attic and troll six month puppy that's jumping and scratching this shite out of everybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: Period, full stop.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's why I said to him, I go, you have a lot of work to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have a dog that has severe behavioral issues, likely stemming from genetics, which you can't change, but you can manage a little bit, or a lot in some cases.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you don't have the basics.
[SPEAKER_00]: I told him, I said, even if you came into me with the most nicest, friendliest, well-bred German shepherd in the entire world, and you said that you wanted to make a therapy dog out of this dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: You still wouldn't be able to do it because you don't have any foundation.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have zero communication, guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't get dogs to stop doing things if you can't get them to do anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you can't get your dog to sit down, stay or heal without any tools.
[SPEAKER_00]: No treats, no prom colors, no e-colors, no hand cues, no signals.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you can't look at your dog and say down or sit, you can't tell your dog what they can't do.
[SPEAKER_00]: How about that?
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't tell your dog what they can't do.
[SPEAKER_00]: should do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I'll rework that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Somebody in the comments, play with those words and make it make sense to everyone.
[SPEAKER_00]: But seriously, I was like, buddy, you have a dog who is biting your sister in the backseat for existing and you're trying to figure out how to turn it off.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're trying to figure out if you can make it better and you're trying to stop it and you're
[SPEAKER_00]: Tell you words of wisdom.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you got to look and audit the foundation.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like calling up your contractor saying, like, hey, I need to build these windows bigger.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're like, the foundation isn't even poured yet.
[SPEAKER_00]: How are you gonna make anyone do is get any bigger because they don't exist yet.
[SPEAKER_00]: The concrete isn't in the ground.
[SPEAKER_00]: What are you talking about?
[SPEAKER_00]: right you know it's like it's it's like the what are they say uh the horse before the carriage doesn't make any sense and so when you have a dog so there's a lot of things going on here and one of the things I thought was really fascinating which is why of course I have my podcast the number one no dog the number one dog training podcast in the entire world and made my second channel was because
[SPEAKER_00]: I was sitting there thinking like, what is that threshold of a dog being grumpy and upset about doing pretty mundane and simple things?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I don't want to get off the couch, but I will, or um, I want some food, give it to me too, or I don't want to walk.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to slay down things like that versus like a dog just running up and biting somebody.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like this guy got attacked by his dog several times he showed me the puncture wounds.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, you know, I call it the stop at syndrome.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to stop this from happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: Guys, if you have a behavioral problem with your dog, and you can't get your dog to sit, don't even have it in your brain.
[SPEAKER_00]: No matter how much money you have, no matter how many good connections you have with good dog trainers and experienced dog trainers.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it seems like everybody I talk to think it's cool and think it's a thing that their local trainer is a police canine trainer.
[SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't mean anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are some great dog trainers that are also a police.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have friends shout out to Chris Jones, he's one of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: But police, canine dog trainers, typically don't have the patients to work with pet people and they typically over-correct under-reward and leave you with a really stressed out dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just in my experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's just a sidebar.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love law enforcement officers.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have friends and family that are part of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've done right along to myself, but I'm just saying,
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of these military and law enforcement officer guys, just because they wear a badge and they carry a gun dog owners that doesn't mean they are the best it doesn't mean they know what they're doing because I've met a lot of K9 guys who have no idea Really what they're doing they just got picked for the loto to be a K9 guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: They went through the academy and now they're on the streets got bless them though
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and not all of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not talking crap.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just being realistic.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if anybody is in the canine world, do you probably shake in your head?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got a couple guys like that on my, on my squad.
[SPEAKER_00]: So anyway,
[SPEAKER_00]: Just know that you really need to pull the curtain back and realize, there isn't an excuse for your dog randomly attacking people.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is no excuse.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is no, yeah, well, what about this?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, that's bullcrot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your dog should not be attacking people.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what we're seeing a lot now, and I don't know if anybody out there is seeing this as well, we're seeing so many
[SPEAKER_00]: And I talked about this on a podcast recently.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are seeing so many golden retriever puppies with resource gardening, it's silly.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's silly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Every call we get, they go, I got a golden retriever and resource gardening, ding ding ding ding.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: Almost every time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, so there's a genetic gene pool that's going around that is passing, it's like a disease.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's literally like the cold, like the flu.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're just breeding all these dogs with all these issues.
[SPEAKER_00]: The thing is guys, so many people, I would say the majority of people who are breeding dogs aren't doing it for the right reason.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hot take, probably not doing it for the right reasons.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hate to tell you, hate to break it together, doing it because they want your money.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not calling the people who just bought the dog in a year or six months, saying, hey, Susan, how's the puppy that I work so hard on that looks great and has good temperament?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, they've already bred six other letters by now and they could care less and by the way, you can't contact them if thing goes wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to call a dog trainer and say, hey, my six-month-old golden retriever is biting my face off because I went near their food.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a genetic problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a bad breeding problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: or you need to do your research about what dogs you're getting, how long their pedigree is being around.
[SPEAKER_00]: You need to go spend time with the mom, you need to go spend time with the dog, you need to get into their food bowl.
[SPEAKER_00]: You need to mess around with them, you need to touch them, you need to play with them.
[SPEAKER_00]: You need to get to know them before you buy their offspring.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hot take, seems like common sense, I'm not mad.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just kind of being funny because that's the only way I can really think about some of this stuff without getting frustrated.
[SPEAKER_00]: But...
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, when you have a dog, yes, there's a threshold in a ceiling in which they are allowed and it is appropriate for them to give you feedback.
[SPEAKER_00]: Growing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Showing teeth.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Biting.
[SPEAKER_00]: When is that appropriate?
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's give an example.
[SPEAKER_00]: A dog sleeping peacefully on their bed and a three-year-old runs and jumps on their back while they're sleeping.
[SPEAKER_00]: They get nipped.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, humans fall.
[SPEAKER_00]: I said it, fire me in the comments.
[SPEAKER_00]: Gahad, a dog playing with this stuff on a bed and a kid walks by the dog grounds, inappropriate, not okay, that's inappropriate, that should be addressed, that should be addressed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's think of another one, a dog in their own crate eating raw food, really hungry and a kid walks up, puts their hand in the bowl.
[SPEAKER_00]: your dog should be okay with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is more of a parenting issue.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not the kids issue, not the dog's issue.
[SPEAKER_00]: You should make sure that your dogs are secure and they have a safe, calm place to digest food without your baby crawling into their face and getting into their food.
[SPEAKER_00]: My dogs would be okay with that, but I still wouldn't allow it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I said that the other day, I said,
[SPEAKER_00]: What the heck was that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you guys hear that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Hi there, nice to meet you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Who are you?
[SPEAKER_00]: That was really weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was my, I'm not exaggerating.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that was my TV talking to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was creepy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Really quickly, guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: In my head, I tried to analyze like all the women voices in my head that I know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know any of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just realized that that was my computer, or my TV.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there are limits, like dogs are allowed to be dogs.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're allowed to be animals.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're allowed to have all these feelings.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just when is it appropriate for them to put their mouth on things?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like dog on dog stuff is a much bigger threshold to much bigger ceiling, much bigger, much bigger, much bigger.
[SPEAKER_00]: but your sister hanging out in the back seat along for a ride getting attacked never appropriate you're getting up off your couch and puffing or farting and you get attacked not appropriate ever not cool that's genetics you need to call your breeder and go yo what is happening what's going on right and the breeder just so you know had told these guys well you should have done this and you should have done that and you should have done obedience and it's like
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but you also shouldn't be breeding dogs that attack you for farting on your couch.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, that's also some accountability type-ish, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: That needs to be addressed, like, that's not okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, there's never a time where that's okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's never a response of better obedience for your dog biting your sister in the back seat, or you farting on your couch.
[SPEAKER_00]: Never as there a time for an obedience response there.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the, no, that shouldn't happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, these are my thoughts.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is something, again, if you guys like these videos on my second channel, let me know in the comments below.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me know what you want me to talk about next time.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're listening to the pod, this is the same old story I've been saying for a long time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for listening.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's my thoughts for today.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for watching.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for listening.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hope to see you guys on the road.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, England, New York, Australia, New Zealand.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll see you guys soon.
[SPEAKER_00]: Train hard, smoke em if you got them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Talk to you guys next time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Purs!