The Peoples Friend

00:00:01
Speaker 1: Okay, we are recording. Hello everybody. I am in my apartment right now in New York City, and I am joined by She's back by popular demand, my friend, your friend, all of our friends here. They are nice Substands podcast Andrea Pekovich.

00:00:29
Speaker 2: Hi, buddy, Hi, nice to see you. I think you can call me the people's friend. Wow.

00:00:34
Speaker 3: Really humble, humble, humble, And I have to and I hate to do this, but I have to do it, and the if no way leads around it. You just made me a coffee and I have to praise you for it. It's so good. A barista was lost on you. It's a creamy oatmeal claate slash cappuccino and.

00:00:56
Speaker 1: It's actually a flat white Oh is it? Yeah?

00:00:58
Speaker 2: And I not really, no flat one.

00:01:00
Speaker 1: It's pretty easy to do. You just stick it under an espresso machine and then you stick a little stick in there.

00:01:06
Speaker 2: To do the milk.

00:01:07
Speaker 1: So basically what I did was absolutely nothing. You'll be surprised, okay, what we're able to do anyway, Hi, everyone, It's been a great couple of months. Obviously, Caitlyn could not join us today because she has parental duties picking up her son Peter. And you know she was busy from twelve on today and Petko was busy prior to twelve o'clock.

00:01:33
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:01:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, anyway, we'll promise you it'll be the three of us next week. Caitlin. You will edit this so you will understand to book yourself for Monday of next week. But anyway, we wanted to get into a lot of stuff today. Clearly the year is over, Pecko. The tennis year is over.

00:01:51
Speaker 3: Yes, And I think the most important thing to talk about firstly is you saw Wicked and I saw Adam Driver.

00:01:59
Speaker 2: And I think this is monumental for you want to.

00:02:03
Speaker 1: Tell people what you love and why you love Adam Driver so much.

00:02:06
Speaker 2: So I don't want to brag, but I discovered Adam Driver.

00:02:11
Speaker 3: I saw him on Girls and it was before it was popular. Yes, I am that type of person that goes like I knew the band before it became big and uh. And I saw him in this episode and I called my sister and she can vouch for her.

00:02:25
Speaker 1: I remember that episode. Was that the one where he was in he was naked or is in? Yeah, he's in the I loved Girls. It was so good.

00:02:31
Speaker 2: It was really good.

00:02:32
Speaker 3: And I called my sister. I said to her, I just saw this actor. He's not handsome, but I think he's going to be big. And he became big, and that's my proudest moment because he's not traditionally handsome.

00:02:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you have to have yea.

00:02:44
Speaker 1: At first, I was like, this guy's random, yeah exactly, but she was random too. It wasn't like she was hot.

00:02:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it was just a yeah, it was a good thing.

00:02:53
Speaker 3: Anyways, I went to this play it's called Hold Onto Me Darling, and he's the lead. He plays a country singer. Yeah, it sounds way worse than it is. It's actually really funny. And three hours flew by, and when he came on stage, he's so big and he's such a large man, not taller like tennis players are a lot taller than he is, but he's just he takes up a lot of space.

00:03:15
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh my basically, just so people at home realize Petko's obsessed with him so much so that she had her boyfriend sitting next to or watching this play. And he's now kind of into him as well.

00:03:27
Speaker 2: He said, he's so big. Jesse was like, he's so big.

00:03:30
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Anyway, I just actually came back from watching Wicked, and I want to spoil it for everybody, but I will spoil it by saying it's to be continued. I was like, at the end of the movie, I was like, what the fuck? I just sat through two hours and forty First of all, Cynthia Riva is amazing in this I highly recommend it just for her performance. But and I had seen Wicked on Broadway, and so I wanted to see it. I wanted to see on the big screen. There's certain movies you have to see on the big screen, right, because the wonderment of this movie.

00:04:01
Speaker 2: Just you know, the logo to the cinema.

00:04:04
Speaker 1: I went close here, Yeah, went to Union Square. And but it's to be continued, So just be prepared for that. People, you do not get to the end of what happens.

00:04:13
Speaker 2: That's so weird to them for two hours.

00:04:16
Speaker 1: Yeah. But anyway, so we're going to have to put up with Wicked Part two and the press releases for the next year and a half.

00:04:27
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, speaking of press releases, Yes, I just got the press release from the ATP of the nominated players for the ATP Awards.

00:04:35
Speaker 2: Do you want to hear that.

00:04:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk about that, and let's talk about the women's one as well.

00:04:38
Speaker 3: Okay, do you have the nominees here? Because I just got them, so I have them, right, my friends? Okay, so come back player after year, Matteo, Berrettini, Marine, Chilic, Kanishikorio, just three.

00:04:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. What do you think Bertini won a tournament?

00:04:55
Speaker 2: He won three tournament?

00:04:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, he did win three, and he did win that match against Kokanakas helped them because I think the Australians would have won the double doubles. I think so that was a huge match for Italy because Cocanacus if he wins that, I think Australia in the finals, and I think potentially Australia wins.

00:05:11
Speaker 3: I think that's too, I think, because you know, in the end, the problem is with this format mostly it doesn't come to doubles, but when it comes to doubles, I really think Australia has the strongest team.

00:05:21
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, because we do, though. The guys that play for US for doubles are all major champions, you know. And Max Purcell, who's not even who wasn't even playing because he was injured. He wasn't even able to play, but Jordan Thompson and Matt Ebden a great doubles player, so you know that was a huge win. So yes, so let's give it to Berrettini.

00:05:39
Speaker 3: Yes, that's what the player of the year most most I don't have that on my big this. Yeah, I guess, so most improved player of the year. Oh, and I think there will be a controversial thing, but first most improved player of the year, Jack Draper, Thomas Mahatch, Giovanni Petchi, Perry Carr, Alejandro Tabilo.

00:05:59
Speaker 1: Oh, what do you think.

00:06:01
Speaker 2: For me? Jack Draper?

00:06:04
Speaker 3: Because I like him so much and I think he's awesome for tennis. I do think the most improved player is Thomas Mahach, honestly because I saw him last year.

00:06:12
Speaker 1: MUTI why wasn't he on the list.

00:06:14
Speaker 3: It's a we will get to it. There's like a weird thing as well, but honestly it's a good This is a good list. It's tough, yeah, because Draper is fifteen in the world.

00:06:28
Speaker 2: Now you know, there's like all four are really good.

00:06:31
Speaker 3: Alejandro Tabilo played super well on Auckland this year, made the Semis of Rome and the Master so anyway, Newcomer of the Year, Jakob Mansik or Yunchang Chuang just to Chang. Yes, well, Stefan Atbek Spotsmanship Award, Carlos al KaAZ, Grigor Dimitrov, Caspar Rude and Dominique team Wow.

00:06:54
Speaker 1: So they didn't put Sinna on that.

00:06:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's weird.

00:06:58
Speaker 1: It's a little do you not put Sinner on? I'm sorry. Sinner's like the nicest guy in the world on the tenniscope, so he is. Have you ever seen him get the ships on the tennis coue? Before you get it, it's because of the drug scene before.

00:07:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, before you get into it. Let me read to you the coaches of the Year, the Coach of the Year, and then we can talk about it, because I think you have a point there. Coach of the Year because malis from Alexey Poppiri in, Emmanuel Plank from Johanni Impecci Pericr, Michael Russell from Taylor, Fritz brett Stein from Tommy Paul and James Trutman.

00:07:31
Speaker 2: Jack Draper No Darren Cahill well.

00:07:34
Speaker 1: Or the Italian guy or yes, that's pretty crazy.

00:07:40
Speaker 3: It's because I think if he gets banned, they don't want him to be on the list.

00:07:44
Speaker 1: Of yeah, because also we haven't had that that final you know, say from WADA.

00:07:50
Speaker 2: Correct, That's what I mean.

00:07:52
Speaker 3: I think they are basically I don't know if protecting is the right word, but let's say just protecting maybe even themselves.

00:08:01
Speaker 1: It's fucking stupid.

00:08:02
Speaker 3: From from a situation that he is the that he has the Sportsmanship award and Darren has the Coach of the Year award and then he gets banned for a couple of months.

00:08:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, listen, if you're going to let him play, and you're going to allow him to play, and you're going to allow Darren to coach, then why are you leaving them off that list? That's ridiculous. I mean I can see it in sort of in a weird way, but not really. I think it's just.

00:08:29
Speaker 3: A self protection and they don't want to have to explain anything.

00:08:34
Speaker 2: It's the same.

00:08:35
Speaker 3: I don't have a good example, but they just want to protect themselves from a possible pire disaster that the guy who has the Sportsmanship a Year award gets banned for doping for a few months.

00:08:47
Speaker 1: Well, if he doesn't get banned and next year he plays and he does get to the end of the year, he should be on the Sportsmanship Award. I mean, honestly, the guy doesn't say a peep on the court. He's the most well mannered, well behaved human being i've seen possibly.

00:09:02
Speaker 3: Hey hey, hey, he kicked the wall in Cincinnati very gently in a fit of rage.

00:09:08
Speaker 1: Careful, but you make my point for me. I mean, come on, that was.

00:09:12
Speaker 3: The biggest like emotional outburst I've ever seen of it when he like gently kicked the.

00:09:17
Speaker 1: Wall and you're like, what's happening is using his mind?

00:09:19
Speaker 2: Yeah?

00:09:19
Speaker 1: Wait, was Alcooriz on the list?

00:09:21
Speaker 2: He's on the list of sportsmanship.

00:09:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. He broke racket this year already. So anyway, I'm sure we're gonna have the haters that we people on their list and see they never put Novak on there. It's like, well, because he misbehaves on the court all the time, so it's kind of anyway, let's not get into it.

00:09:39
Speaker 3: Well, he this year, he probably should have been the closest because he played like three events and still made the ATP. You have that to me is honestly, from all the successes that Novak Djokovic had to me the biggest success is twenty twenty four, when he's close to turning forty place three events. Talks in every media interview, press conference how he doesn't want to play anymore unless he's playing major tournaments and winning major titles, wins the gold medal and somehow qualifies for ATP finals. So he has to send the facts from the malodies, being like, guys.

00:10:21
Speaker 1: I'm not good.

00:10:22
Speaker 3: I'm already on vacation and I can't believe all of y'all were so bad that I still qualified as the number fifth player in the whole thing.

00:10:31
Speaker 1: So you're worried about men's tennis, aren't you? A little bit. We had a conversation a little bit. We had a conversation at lunch yesterday where you said you're worried about men's tennis, because, yes, Yannik and Alcoraz are incredible. They're going to be around for a long time. Both of them want to win a lot of majors and that's hugely important. They're both really nice guys, so it's they're great for the sport, but you're concerned about the rest.

00:10:56
Speaker 2: A little bit.

00:10:57
Speaker 3: So I was intern I've never I was never in person at an ATP final. I was a few times at a WTA final. I was a substitute twice myself. I was there in terms of media, but I've never been to an ATP finals. This was the first time I was in to Reno, and I was a little worried because I was like man, because I.

00:11:18
Speaker 2: Always tried what I tried to do.

00:11:20
Speaker 3: I try to do an analogy with women's tennis, and I was trying to think, what if Serena had played thirty eight year old with an injury on her knee, had played five or six I'm exaggerating. Obviously Nova played a bit more, but not a lot more. Yeah, he played very little events. Many of the events he played he clearly wasn't motivated. He said so himself.

00:11:43
Speaker 1: How many did he play?

00:11:44
Speaker 3: Do you know?

00:11:45
Speaker 2: I don't know, but he played.

00:11:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say twelve maybe, But just think about Serena doing the same, playing only twelve events.

00:11:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, which she never played the US Open and didn't play the WTA finals forever.

00:11:59
Speaker 3: Yes, but imagine just put yourself in the same situation, Serena only playing twelve events, not winning a title for the first time in forever, and Okay, winning the gold medal, but it doesn't count because it doesn't go into the ranking.

00:12:12
Speaker 2: Points of the ATP.

00:12:14
Speaker 3: And she makes that makes the WTA finals. What do you think the media would.

00:12:18
Speaker 1: Say, Yeah, they'd be losing their mind.

00:12:20
Speaker 3: How bad tennis? How can Serena make make it? And so on and so farth. So that's all I'm saying. And I was there, and it was just it wasn't even that men's tennis is. And I have to say, like, every single guy that was there I really liked. You know, there wasn't a single one that I don't really like, So it's not in that regard. The only thing that I did see was that Jannick Sinner was so ahead of the entire pack, and when it was clear that Carlos was out, it was already a done deal.

00:12:50
Speaker 2: Basically, the only.

00:12:52
Speaker 3: Question was can he sustain the pressure of the home crowd, which never really was a question.

00:12:57
Speaker 2: He didn't lose more than four games per set.

00:13:00
Speaker 1: I mean, and did you see that record that Sinner has right now not losing a set? I mean, Jesus, Lord have mercy. He's like on fire.

00:13:07
Speaker 3: But I did, so it's difficult for me to say I wonder what you think, because it's difficult for me to say whether they are just so good or whether men's tennis doesn't have the depth in the top ten. Right now, you know it's because today I was going through the top five, and so for example, Medvedev and Fritz are around seven five thousand points.

00:13:25
Speaker 1: Novak played eighteen tournaments this year.

00:13:27
Speaker 2: That's not bad. That's a lot.

00:13:29
Speaker 1: He played more than Medvedev. Oh really, yeah, he played the same as al Chorist and he actually played one more than Janick Sinner. Okay, I take everything, so take everything anyway.

00:13:37
Speaker 2: So that made for ten minutes. I can just retract.

00:13:42
Speaker 1: Actually, but in actual fact, that shows you because you and I followed tennis a lot, you commentating it all year pretty much, I am commentating a lot in the fact that we didn't think he played that much. That just shows you how. I don't want to say that because I know I'm going to get haters. Oh my god, calm down, everybody that thinks I hate Novac. I don't hate Novak. That just shows you how bad a year he had when you think for his standards, yeah, for his standards, but I mean, his standards are not going anywhere. This is who he is. He's the greatest player of all time. And the fact that he won one tournament this year it was the Olympics, is pretty shocking. And he was in one final Wimbledon, like that's it, Like what are we doing here? Like that is crazy shit. So and the fact that he did actually play more than Sinner and you felt like he didn't play this year, that badly he played this year.

00:14:33
Speaker 2: Well scratch that.

00:14:34
Speaker 3: Tole argument, Caitlin, you can delete everything.

00:14:37
Speaker 1: No, no, no, But I think it's interesting that you thought he didn't play a lot and he's still qualified for the ATV finals. I think the bottom line is it will be interesting to see your steps up. I want to know your thoughts. I have my thoughts on Taylor Fritz. I do believe he can win a major, but I feel like his net game has to improve significantly because of the fact that when he hits one to three great shots in the rally like Sinner, like al Karez, they're willing to go, oh, i've got the guy on the dead run. I'm going to go in now and finish the point at the net, and they're super confident with their volleys.

00:15:10
Speaker 2: Both of them.

00:15:11
Speaker 1: I give Darren a lot of credit for helping Sinner, because I know his improvement on volley's has been outstanding in the last twelve months, and I think that's actually the difference maker in his tennis because as somebody who could volley very well, if I had those groundstrokes and I saw an opportunity to run in, I would run in every single time. And I think that Carlos and Yannik have that perception now, like oh shit, it's time for me to go in. It's time for me to finish this point off. I can't play five more shots like this. I don't feel like Taylor's comfortable at all in any way going forward. He had one great volley against Verev that actually helped him win the match was when he was down love forty, I think at two all in the third, and he came in at he was down love forty, got it back to thirty forty, hit a great shot, almost was already halfway in the court, had to go in, and he ended up hitting a looked at very scared, very volley for him, very basic volley for someone like me, but for him that was and he made it, and I was like God, if you could just do that more and more, you would win a lot more matches. And I just feel like it's the one area that stops him from being a possible Grand Slam contender, because I do believe he can do it, but he needs to improve that part of his game. That's where Alcaraz and Sinner differentiate themselves with the other guys that they're such great movies. They're so good around the court. They both rip the shit out of the forehand and the back end Sinner serve is massive, but he can volley and he can really volley. Now that's the difference, and I think if Taylor's going to make that next step, he has to improve that area because I think he's the only one that can disrupt those two at Grand Slams.

00:16:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree to a certain extent, Actually not to a certain extent. I agree one hundred percent in that regard. I do think that he plays too much through the court. I don't think he goes for angles at all, and when he runs into somebody like Yannick Sinner, it's actually mind blowing to me that he keeps beatings there. It's a mental thing because Veref also moves really well in the back of the court and.

00:17:04
Speaker 1: Feels comfortable in the back end and back end that's the thing. Yeah, because I kept watching it going why in red? He said it after the match? He said it after the match, he said someone I think it was Laura, I don't know who asked him the question, but about sort of backhand back and he's like, look, I'm super comfortable doing that, and I'm not afraid because his forehand is so much better than Zverev's. Yes, but it's almost like he's like, I dare you to beat me with your best shop because she can't.

00:17:29
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:17:29
Speaker 3: So it was really interesting because Paul Anacon was I was in calling the match for Germany, but I was texting people in the US asking like, Hey, what is Paul saying because he was calling the match for a tennis channel.

00:17:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is weird to me.

00:17:41
Speaker 2: It is weird.

00:17:42
Speaker 3: But on the other hand, and he kept saying apparently in so many words, he didn't say it in that, but Taylor is playing the tactically most stupid match he's ever played, because he kept going to the back end of CEF but he won. So but what I wanted to say, that's not the point I'm trying to make. The point that I'm trying to make is that he needs if you want wants to beat somebody like Yanick Sinna, who he keeps running into as like the end opponent who he can't get past, he needs to start getting to the angles because he hits the ball well through the court, but it doesn't bother Yanick at all because he's such a good mover with his little fox legs. He's always like in balance and just goes like and then and then he he doesn't miss the fourth point. He doesn't even miss the fifth shot, not even the eighth, but then the twelfth he does miss and Yanick doesn't. And then that's the difference. That's why he lose like four and four or four and three, you know. So I think that's but just I wanted to make one point while we're at Taylor. So I was looking at the top five today and what really stood out.

00:18:38
Speaker 2: To me Taylor.

00:18:39
Speaker 3: And so Taylor is number four, then Neil Medvedev is number five, and they add five thousand points roughly one has five thousand, one hundred, the other has five thousand and thirty or something, right, And then Carlos and Zverev are around seven thousand points, and then Yanick's like like, and Yanick has almost twelve thousand.

00:18:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, but this is a huge so already, so this is what I'm saying.

00:19:01
Speaker 3: I do think Carlos Sasha, you might not like him, but Carlos, Sasha and Yanick have set themselves apart from the pack, and the points are telling the story because two thousand points between Carlos and Taylor and Daniel. Two thousand points is winning a Slam tournament and Carlos and Sasha loose first round, which won't happen. Yeah, that's a lot of that's a big difference.

00:19:26
Speaker 2: Two thousand points is winning a Grand Slam tournament.

00:19:29
Speaker 1: I know, I know it's gonna be interesting to see what happens, because of course, Yanik book End of the Year, which I predicted, Go back and listen I predict.

00:19:36
Speaker 2: But crazy, he's ahead four thousand.

00:19:40
Speaker 1: Points, and he did not do Wimbledon or the French I mean for his standards.

00:19:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean did Sammy said the French? He didn't make the fathers at the wim But for example, that's you say, but four thousand points, that's winning two slams. So Zverev would have to win as Open and French Open, and Yanick wouldn't have to play at all, which can happen technically if the Vada decides to ban him. But this is the how much ahead he is of the rest of the pack. If that wasn't when Carol Vozniaki was that much ahead in women's tennis, it was like, how bad are the others? So that's what my question was to you, are the others so bad? Or are these guys so fucking good?

00:20:23
Speaker 1: I think it's a combination. I think it's a combination. I think it's a little bit of both, to be honest, which is a combination, I don't know.

00:20:31
Speaker 2: I mean I think the definition of a company.

00:20:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we'll see it next year. I think we'll see what happens with Taylor next year, because I think you got a taste for it this year. You commented on him losing at the US Open, how he looks so mad, and that's good. That's good that he loses in the final and looks like he's pissed, you know. So he's he's making slow incremental improvements, you know, And so that's huge. And I think all the guys behind him like Ben Shelton, Franz Stiafo, Tommy Poul all these guys have pushed him to be better because I think he has that he has that edge. He comes from a very you know, sporting family, comes from a very successful tennis family, so he has the mindset of he wants to be better, and so I think that's great. And the thing that I like about it he has had Michael Russell with him the whole time and he's stuck with him. He has said, oh, I need to change. Then again, maybe he does need a change to go that extra step. I don't know, but I like the fact that he's stuck with the same team. He's improved tremendous amount in the last twelve months. And I like Taylor a lot and I think he's great for the game. So we'll see what happens.

00:21:36
Speaker 3: Well, and you will be happy. I talked to Boris Becker lately and he said, to me.

00:21:41
Speaker 1: Did you ask him how the clinker was? How the clinker was?

00:21:45
Speaker 2: What's the clink?

00:21:45
Speaker 1: The jail? He didn't, I didn't know how it wasn't in there, buddy, did you He didn't ask him at all?

00:21:53
Speaker 2: No, No, I just wanted the first thing.

00:21:54
Speaker 3: I'm gonna ask him about tennis, because he has a great tennis mind.

00:21:57
Speaker 2: I like, I really like talking to him about tennis.

00:21:59
Speaker 3: And he said he thinks that among the tennis reasons why Yanick is so great and why he's so ahead of the rest, he says he has the perfect team by his side. He plays the least tournaments. When he feels tired, when he feels injured, he pulls out. He keeps his energies, he manages his emotional and he had this black cloud above his head and then then he's like, yeah, I didn't sleep so well and it was bothering me. Imagine what he does next to you when he is sleeping well and it's not bothering.

00:22:28
Speaker 1: He's getting rest, Like.

00:22:29
Speaker 3: What he's going to be twenty thousand points ahead of everyone.

00:22:32
Speaker 1: And look, he won this tournament knowing that he still had the water shitter over his head. So yeah, it'll listen. I said it years ago. I'm not tooting a horn that I wasn't blowing A long time ago. I told Darren Cahill when he had the opportunity, and you know, told me he was gonna work with Yanick. I'm like, oh my god, it was even before Yanick that Darren was going to work with him. I'm like, this guy is so freaking good. Once he kind of gets into his body and you know, he gets a little bit stronger. Blah blah blah. Oh, he had everything. Everything and the mentality he keeps his ship together, which is why he should have been on the Sportsmanship Award.

00:23:07
Speaker 2: Mentality.

00:23:08
Speaker 1: Oh god, it's so great and he's such a nice guy. All right, So that's the atp side of it. Davis Cup finished. How about the fucking Italians man winning Davis Cup and the Billy Jean King Cup with Jasmine Polini and Bronzetti coming through. They came through in that doubles that under armed served from Sarah Arani. I was there witnessing it, going my god, I can't believe I'm watching this doubles. But the fact that they figured that out, and but.

00:23:38
Speaker 2: She plays world doubles.

00:23:40
Speaker 1: Sarah is the best doubles player on the court.

00:23:42
Speaker 2: Actually, she knows what she's doing.

00:23:43
Speaker 1: I would say outside of her serf, she's the best doubles.

00:23:45
Speaker 3: Because then we talk about it. When she was in the mixed finals, she was like the best.

00:23:51
Speaker 1: I called the match, she was the best player on the court. Because I'll tell you why. And this is why it frustrates me it's a little hard to watch women's doubles is that they don't played doubles. They're just hitting and the lob and they'll poach sometimes. And like when I played, you had to get the ball. We understood because everyone volleyed really well. Back fifteen years ago, right twenty years ago, we had everyone that played singles was a good vollier, Kim Cleisters. You know, we're talking like all these players that came before Lindsay Davenport, they were all very competent at the net. And so you can't hit through somebody at the net. Like if you played me and tried to hit through me, you're not hitting through me. I'm gonna make one volley, two volleys, three volleys, and you're gonna finally go fuck it. I'm gonna love you. And guess what we're like now, she's gonna lob. You just knew as a good volleyer where to move. Didn't matter how hard you hit it. The only problem was if you got it to my feet right. So if you got it to my feet. Now I have to hear volley up right. And now, because everyone was a good vollier, they would hit it their feet and they would run forward and they would smash it right. So I would take a ball and I'd just feed it to your feet with a little chip or a little dip and then run in and go bang with a volley right because you're not gonna be able to so good volleys would just dink it back. Which is why if you ever see the Brian Brothers play, you know, sometimes I do these little dinky dinky dinkies with people and you're like, why don't they smash it? You can't smash it when it's below the net. You gotta it's kind of like pickaball, you know, stupid pickable when you just ding ding ding. That's what good doubles players can do. They can get it to your feet and then they close and finish it right. That's what Sarah run. Let's not talk about that. But like Sarah Ranie when she was playing I she thinks, like me from the baseline, didn't have a lot of power. So I'm like, oh, she's gonna dip this there and she's gonna come in and sure enough, she'd dip it there, come in and bang with the volley. I'm like, she plays old school doubles. These idiots that don't know how to play at the net, she toys with them because of that. It's not anything to do with power. Doubles is, which is why my Tina Hingis was such a good doubles player. She didn't have power, but she would toy with you. She would dip it at your feet, she would lob you, she would dip it at the feet again, come in and volley it out of the air. That's what nobody does anymore. All these I was trying to hit the shit out of the ball and it's like, oh my god, you're so dumb. You're leaving yourself in a bad position by doing that. But Ranie dip takes her time. I think the way she thought, and I'm like, oh, even when she slices and comes into the net with these girls at the baseline, and I'm like, they'll try and hit the shit out of here, and she'll just bolly it through the net player. It's like simple doubles execution. And that's what she does, and that's why she's the best doubles player probably in the world right now, even with other girls winning, you know, the championships and all this, she still plays very classical doubles. If she had a serve, she would be dominating. Still in doubles she has no serve, literally none. So anyway, the Italian's unbelievable. Their association must be so pumped to win. Has that happened before the time?

00:26:48
Speaker 3: I will just tell you so, I think the last time we had a mate, know, the last.

00:26:54
Speaker 1: Time was Russia.

00:26:54
Speaker 2: I think, oh really really, yeah, something weird.

00:26:58
Speaker 3: Maybe not, but it was something surprising. But I think twenty twelve or thirteen was the last time.

00:27:04
Speaker 1: So.

00:27:05
Speaker 3: I was in Toronto when Jannixino one and the president of the Federation of the Italiana, was holding a speech and he it was like the most Italian thing you've ever seen, was no, he was like crying and speaking and like gran the ten.

00:27:22
Speaker 2: I don't speak Italian.

00:27:24
Speaker 3: I understand most of it because I played a lot of and that's one of the reasons why they are so good. I placed most of my Challenger tour was in Italy because it's quite close to Germany. Oh, you're too interested, But it was quite close to Germany, so I could take the train.

00:27:38
Speaker 2: You know it wasn't I could take the train.

00:27:40
Speaker 3: I would spend three four weeks in Italy play all the tournaments, and you could play. And that's the great thing. You can play from a ten K to one hundred k. You can play everything and in between. So wherever you stand in your rankings, you will find a way into a tournament.

00:27:54
Speaker 1: And the beauty of Europe though, that's why you guys are so lucky, he was, is so lucky. You can just like jump on a train, get in a car, travel three hours and be in another country playing and challenges like for us stupid little Australians trying to get on a train. No no, I mean in Australia, but not the need. You know that you need to be playing all the time. So we got to get on a plane and go somewhere.

00:28:19
Speaker 3: No, but the all of Asia Pacific is brutal, like China. Asia, just Asia is so hard. I don't know how you guys do it, honestly. But just to finish the president guy, so he was like crying and I could just understand Grande grand Italia, grande tennis, and he finished it.

00:28:35
Speaker 2: Up with like Viva la Talia or.

00:28:38
Speaker 4: Something like this, and everyone's cheering and crying, and I was like, we had a political rallia, we had a tennis tournament, but it was so it was so Italian, and.

00:28:48
Speaker 3: I was like, this was a week before day one Davis Cup and Billy came up.

00:28:52
Speaker 2: Imagine the speech he would give. Now there's definitely.

00:28:56
Speaker 1: Pumped, losing their mind. But that was credible. It's shame for Eager because she played really well. She beat Paulini and she was.

00:29:05
Speaker 2: You said that was the best matches.

00:29:06
Speaker 1: S Yeah, she was very well. She was not good in the first set, and she she hung in there and she played great in the end. And I gave her a lot of credit because she was you know, both her and Pauline had to be exhausted, exhausted going into Davis into fed Cup, as would Sinner. I mean the fact he didn't lose a set, you know, did what he did for the Italians after the year he's had, I mean, desperate to have a break. But then again he is playing golf now. I don't know if you saw this latest Darren k Hill posted on his Instagram and now it's everywhere and I made a comment on it because Darren I can play some golf and his swing was not good and he completely missed the ball with a driver. I go, I don't know if that's actually possible to do.

00:29:53
Speaker 2: What he did so good.

00:29:55
Speaker 1: He literally hit under the ball.

00:29:56
Speaker 2: He only hit like the t Can you send this?

00:30:00
Speaker 1: It's horrendous.

00:30:02
Speaker 2: I love that he's not good at something at least.

00:30:05
Speaker 1: Yeah literally, I know, because he's a great skier and all the things. But oh my god, this is so funny. And I said to Darren, I said to Darren, I texted him, I said, listen, tell Yannick, I'll play eighteen holes of golf for his six kings money because I know I'm taking out that six million dollars. Yeah, I mean, that's just crazy. I want just on Davis cut a couple of interesting decisions with the dumbness. Yeah, what did you think about the Americans and Bob Bryant a part of shit on Twitter?

00:30:35
Speaker 3: I saw the controversy, and I see the point. I will This might sound really surprising, but I will defend Bob Bryan That's fine. And the reason, yes there are a reason, and the reason that I have for it is Jan Nicksona and Matio Berattini. So basically, Italy did exactly the same thing on the same day and it worked out. Yes, they didn't play the best doubles in the world, but they played a top ten pair in Argentina and they took out Andreva Vassori and Simone Bolelli, who were qualified at the ATP Masters, So they were one of the.

00:31:07
Speaker 2: Best at all pairs.

00:31:09
Speaker 1: Remember indoors, it doesn't matter.

00:31:12
Speaker 2: They did exactly the same thing and it worked out. They won.

00:31:15
Speaker 3: Jannick Sinner and Matteo Bertini never fucking played doubles in their lives together, never played doubles at all, and they beat a good doubles pair, so it works out.

00:31:25
Speaker 1: And I understand Janickson and not played doubles at Davis CuPy you sure.

00:31:28
Speaker 2: He has played doubles, but not with Matteo. Not with Mateo, but they rarely have a play at all.

00:31:33
Speaker 3: I don't think has Yanick ever played outside of Davis Cup of Doubles match.

00:31:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean, are you going to break those guys?

00:31:39
Speaker 3: But this is what I'm saying, And so I understand completely Bob Bryan's decision because I don't think regif Frahm and cry check right. I don't think they would have beaten the Australian pair either. And I think you have a bigger chance if Shelton closes his eyes and has a crazy good surf day, I think you have a better chance to somehow get in the tiebreak and hope one of the Aussies chokes.

00:32:01
Speaker 1: Yep.

00:32:01
Speaker 3: I think that's a bigger chance than having Regifra. And you know doubles better, so you are much more qualified than this. But I understood his reasoning behind it. I don't think he explained it well. I think he didn't want to explain it after having lost. But I could understand where he was coming from, and I thought the piling on was a little unfair, even though I completely understand where it comes from, because you have to back your doubles players right, because the next time they are on court, they will feel horrible because they weren't back and they will lose, you know what I mean.

00:32:48
Speaker 5: I'm sure it was a very difficult decision, especially to someone who was a double specialist and you know, arguably the greatest of all time, to not play his doubles players.

00:32:59
Speaker 1: I just wonder what practice was like through the week. I know that's I know that Rajhiev and Austin have not been playing great of late, so maybe they didn't have the confidence going in there. But then I think in some regards and don't pick them.

00:33:15
Speaker 2: You know, don't take them, just.

00:33:16
Speaker 1: Take another singles player. Maybe I don't know. I don't know who was available. So that's all stuff and all speculation.

00:33:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's a good point because we never know what maybe practices, we don't know. Maybe Austin went up to Bob and was like, bro, I feel my either I'm not playing well or even I'm feeling my wrist today.

00:33:35
Speaker 2: I don't think that can be one hundred percent. We don't know, and Bob is not going to tell us because he needs.

00:33:40
Speaker 3: To protect That's the task of a captain to protect your players. But sorry, go on, I just wanted to say, it's a good point that you're making.

00:33:46
Speaker 2: We don't know all the details.

00:33:47
Speaker 1: Are Yeah, and also we don't know in the practice what was happening in practice. Maybe Austin and Rajiev were playing against these guys in practice and losing. You don't get a lot of opportunity to practice doubles at Davis Cup or fed Cup. You maybe set aside a day or an afternoon, you know what it's like like two hours and then player set and you know, maybe the guys smoke them. I don't know. I'm sure Bob was hoping to hold Shelton serve all the time. Here's the problem. Tommy doesn't have a big serf, you know what I mean, And you can get on his serf. He has a good serve, but you can get on it. And you know, Jordan Thompson is one of the best returners in the game. He's not going to miss a lot of returns. And Matt loves pace as well. And I think by the looks of the way they were playing, they really set out to go at Ben at the net. He wasn't really efficient there. He's not going to move that much on Tommy's serve. I just felt that there was a lot of discombobulation. Again, I don't know. We don't know what led up to it, because apparently Bob said that he made the decision literally after the singles. Yeah, so I'm wondering if if you were going to play singles players, I would have played Sorry, I would have played Ben and Taylor and Taylor me too, because then you you hopefully are not going to.

00:35:05
Speaker 3: Lose exactly, you get to the tie break, and then the tie break anything can happen.

00:35:09
Speaker 2: And Taylor just was in the final of the ATP and Ben.

00:35:12
Speaker 3: Thinks the best well yeah, and but Ben thinks he's the best player in the world. Anyways, I think he's looking at you. He's like, his twelve thousand points I should have fifteen thousand.

00:35:21
Speaker 1: There's no question. There's no question that Ben, you know, has the hootspa. I mean, he really does believe and it's important for of course it is.

00:35:27
Speaker 2: That's great.

00:35:28
Speaker 1: So yeah, so some interesting choices there. I also think that it was interesting that that Leyton Hewitt picked cock and Arcus as well. And listen, Cocky had a number.

00:35:40
Speaker 3: Can I please before you go into Cockinakus, Austin cry Check and rejief Rama playing Jordan and Matt, who do you think.

00:35:48
Speaker 2: When if your head to bet, you would think so.

00:35:51
Speaker 1: But having said that, well, because they beat you know, Matt and John Pierce from Australia beat those guys in the final of the Olympics on clay, so you know, maybe he felt like Matt has hit their number. You know, Matt plays well against them. We are lucky that we have a plethora of great doubles players that play can play for Australia, including Kokanakas who's one of Grand Slam Nick with Nick Kirios. So, and I know that all of the guys, all of our assie guys, would be comfortable playing with one another. The only ones that are not super comfortable are Max Percel and Matt Ebden because they don't really get along personally. And guess what, they won Wimbledon together, so even if you threw them together, they're gonna play well. I mean they did play. They have played tires since then. I think one of the last ones to qualify. No, they're just that's why they stopped playing. They didn't really get along.

00:36:47
Speaker 2: They don't have anything, and come.

00:36:49
Speaker 1: No, Max is a little weird, Matt's a little weird. Maybe they were just like, yeah, you're both weird.

00:36:53
Speaker 2: Oh weird don't match.

00:36:55
Speaker 1: Our weirds don't match. But my point is, and they have played since for Australia and they wont a very big tie getting into the finals. So we had like four people we could play easily, and so it is really as you know as especially now with the format being best of three. It's like if you can win one singles and get it doubles, doubles is as important.

00:37:16
Speaker 3: That's why I honestly think Australia is most the most dangerous team, if not on paper by Rang.

00:37:21
Speaker 1: But I would have played Poprin. Why didn't Layton play? Yeah? I would have played Poperan. He just won a tournament indoors. He's had an amazing year. He arguably could be up for the most proof player this year. I mean his coach is up for Coach of the year. So I don't understand that Bertini, but I.

00:37:43
Speaker 2: Would against it. I would have played right because Tanasi beat. I wouldn't have played Shelton.

00:37:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would not have played Yeah, but it was Shelton's first match well.

00:37:53
Speaker 3: And to the Tanasi on a good day he plays incredible to anybody, but his not known to be able to hold this quality for more days, just because he's so injured all.

00:38:06
Speaker 1: So I would have played Popron against Beratini. Having said that he had an opportunity to win. He hit a terrible missed the terrible forehand to lose his serve in the third set. But I was thinking even to throw Poprin in then against Janick Sinner. There's no way demon is biatting Sinner. Absolutely no chance, no chance, but no one's But I would have thrown in a lightning rod or just said for somebody who can I mean on a big an indoor court, Popren is probably gonna hold serve even against Yeah, I don't know. There are all questions. That's what why captains, you know?

00:38:43
Speaker 3: And this is what And this is the thing that I hate about these jobs.

00:38:47
Speaker 2: I mean not hate about these jobs.

00:38:49
Speaker 3: It's great for them, but hate about the the assessment of these jobs. If you do it right, your legend or nobody mentions you. But it's like now that Yannick won for Italy again, it's not like, oh Philippo Balandre, grand de Filippo, it's grande Yanick. He want us the Davis Cup again. So they're like, oh, he didn't mess up. And if you lose like Bob Bryan, now you're the scapegoat who messed everything up. And it's a really unthankful job being a captain of a Billy Jean King Cup or a Davis Cup team. And I just want to say a name of all tennis players. No, I really, I don't think I would, just because it's not even because I need to have the gratefulness of the people, but just the combining these persons. And I think now it's a little easier, but back in the days when you had five players and anyone can play singles, you know what I mean on two days, like you could technically have four different people playing. You don't want a competition in your team in the five days that you're spending together. But that's basically what you have as a captain if you're if you're the depth is quite you know, Yanick obviously doesn't have to fight for a spot. But if it's Atini, Mussetti and freaking KOBALI.

00:40:03
Speaker 1: What was the same in for Australia it was Cocinakus and proper and an exactly spring higher. Yeah, so that was a big call from it. That's what it works on the first day. Or give him credit, but I think that Poproham would not have I don't think Popham would have lost those matches. I think he would have beaten Barattini, I do, I do. I think he has the firepower and you know it was definitely the big surve big fourhands between Barattini and Cocinacus, because both of their back ends are so average.

00:40:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I just I think I just want to say, like a shout out to these Davis Cup and Billy jim Kin Cup captains. I think it's easy to criticize them.

00:40:40
Speaker 1: And the coaches because the coaches and captains really do converse about the decision.

00:40:44
Speaker 3: Yes, but I just think, yeah, exactly, well, just the team beside ers, managers whatever.

00:40:48
Speaker 2: I think.

00:40:49
Speaker 3: I like in the Premier League they call their managers because they are managers in a way. You know, they're not just coaching on like, hey, this is what you need to do tactically. I think just in general the managers and I think it's easy to criticize them. But when you're in the heat of things, emotions running high, players coming to you complaining about ship they have, it's the end of the season. I'm sure cooking eggs is like my right hip hurts, and popularen is like my left shoulder.

00:41:15
Speaker 2: Herd and the you know, and Maclin. Yeah, but that's what I mean.

00:41:20
Speaker 3: You know, it's the end of the season and you have to deal all of that and you make a wrong decision or the other guys are just better, and then the whole of Twitter and the universe.

00:41:30
Speaker 2: Jumps on you. Was like, Oh, you're so dumb. Why didn't you do X, Y and Z.

00:41:34
Speaker 1: By the way, time to get onto Blue Sky. A lot of people have mentioned it to Melky.

00:41:39
Speaker 2: I will download time to get you.

00:41:40
Speaker 1: On blue Sky. We're moving away from Twitter, Okay, I'm losing followers by the day, which is great. On Twitter. The means that bots are getting tossed and people are leaving x and so I'm blue Sky is much more fun and just letting everybody know as we speak, yes, she is literally downloading it right now because I had a lot of people ask me to get you on there.

00:42:04
Speaker 3: Okay, so just so you know, I have every single social media on my phone and I use zero.

00:42:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, I use Instagram and.

00:42:14
Speaker 3: That's it because but we're going to get you on I'm a basic bitch.

00:42:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know you are. Listen something that you wrote about in your incredible substack that I read today thank you, which the Raffer retirement.

00:42:27
Speaker 2: It was great.

00:42:29
Speaker 1: I want you to talk about it a little bit, and then I want you to give me your rougher stories, and then I was obviously there and Marla, Yeah, I watched him play his last match, but just I don't know your overall thoughts on the retirement finally of Ruffi illness. Yeah, so I was.

00:42:45
Speaker 3: So sad and so happy, And I think what I tried to work out in the piece is that how hard it is to let something go, even for the grades, even for Ruffer, even for Roger Arguably. Do you think he wanted to have his last notch at Labor Cup losing to Francis Tierfo.

00:43:02
Speaker 2: No, he didn't, but you know, it's so hard to let go.

00:43:06
Speaker 3: And Boris, I know I keep bringing him up, but I just saw him for a lot of times now lately, and he said to me, it's like a drug. Tennis is like a Daggs for him. He said, winning titles is a drug. Playing on center court. You're not a day tennis.

00:43:20
Speaker 1: This is what I tell people. Being a professional athlete is legal addiction. That's what it is. Being a professional athlete is legally being addicted to something that is not a drug. And it is so hard. If anyone's had a drug problem or a drinking problem, it's really fucking hard to give up because that high of being high is so good, and when you low, it's like all you want is set high again. And being an athlete and being in tennis by it's all about the win and the win. There's no better feeling than that feeling of accomplishing something that you dream about. And then it's really hard to walk away knowing you never going to have that feeling again.

00:44:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think, no, it's one hundred percent true.

00:44:03
Speaker 3: And I think with Raffa, you could see when do you term it an addiction? When it becomes hurtful for your life? And you could tell that he was starting to neglect his being, Like you could see that he was unhealthy. He was injured all the time, but you could see it in his face. And Raffa is not the most relaxed person.

00:44:23
Speaker 1: It's like Steffie just it's interesting because Stepfie just dropped the mic and walked away because she was hurting. His body was hurting, her knee was hurting, her foot was hurting, her back was hurting. She was in love. She just met Andrea, but they were dating, but she was it was so she just stopped. She just walked away.

00:44:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I think that, but she's very different to She is a different person.

00:44:46
Speaker 1: She didn't love the spotlight. She just loved playing, whereas Raffa was. I think Ruffa is more similar to Stephie than Roger or Novak or Andy, even the way he retired, just the whole circumstances around. It was more about playing at home, being with his family. There was no other players there. It was just his teammates and it was kind of low key and it was kind of like for Rafa that was enough. Yeah, do you know what I mean? For Stephie, it was like, I don't need all that pump and so, like the first thing I said to her and she told me she was retiring, Like wait, what, I'm like, the US opens in like three weeks, why don't you do it there? And she's like, nah, I'm good.

00:45:28
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:45:28
Speaker 3: So yeah, But I think with Rafa, I think the just coming back a little bit with the addiction. And to another thing, I think with Rafa, why was so hard for him to retire? Is And I written that about that for a German newspaper and I saw some people google translated it and became completely this combombulated what's the.

00:45:51
Speaker 1: Name discombobulated, discombobulated where people he tried to say that, well is impressive.

00:45:56
Speaker 3: It was just a terrible translation. Don't Google translate German text. The grammar is absurd, so don't do that anyway.

00:46:03
Speaker 2: So what I argued.

00:46:05
Speaker 3: Is Rafa is the best athlete in the history of sports who was always anxious. Right, some tried to mint it into I said, he's the best athlete in the history of sports.

00:46:18
Speaker 2: That's not what I said.

00:46:19
Speaker 3: But he is the best athlete in the history of sports who was always anxious.

00:46:23
Speaker 2: He was always afraid.

00:46:24
Speaker 1: I saw him in.

00:46:25
Speaker 3: The fourteenth year of him winning Roland Garros. He had lost there once or twice, right, two matches in one hundred years, and he played a lucky loser in the first round, and he was playing for his life. I swear to God, I ran into him. That's why I mentioned, and you asked for Rafa stories. I ran into him. I was going out of the gym, going to warm up, and he was warming up right in front of Philip Schatre, you know that little hallway, and he looked like he was being brought out to be beheaded by the King of Spain, Philippo or whatever.

00:47:01
Speaker 2: His name is.

00:47:02
Speaker 3: I swear to God that was this. I was like, this guy, Yeah, is panicked. He's terrified that he will lose to a lucky loser. And then he wants sixty one sixty six one? Do you know what I mean?

00:47:14
Speaker 1: I have a different I love that that's your thought process.

00:47:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, can I just finish it? And then you go and then you can go all the way.

00:47:21
Speaker 3: And I think why the addiction, what made him addicted is he's anxious to lose and when he wins, and that's almost a bigger emotional reward than the triumph. It gave him relief. And that's why I think he was more addicted than others. You know, they like, I'm gonna lose, I'm gonna lose, I'm gonna lose.

00:47:39
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm winning.

00:47:40
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I'm winning. And Ega is the same. Yeah, I agree, one hundred percent. I think Ega is psychologically the same person as Rough And that's why she's also so hard to beat because she has this every point mentality, and I think it's.

00:47:51
Speaker 1: Why she advises him the most.

00:47:53
Speaker 3: Yes, she identifies with him, and she doesn't know why she thinks because he's great, but it's because they are scared when they go on core. And I don't recommend it as a way of being, but I think that's what makes them great, and I think that's what makes them more addicted to it in a way, because the moment of relief, oh my god, I didn't that my anxieties didn't come true. I think is stronger than the triumph of winning.

00:48:15
Speaker 1: That's interesting. That's interesting. Did I read your stubset stack and that's how you ended it by saying he was basically fear based, And I think it was a combination of that. I do think he was anxious, which is why he had that OCD like the bottles had to be perfectly placed and the tags had to be And I told you the story how at the Australian Open they had a sponsor water sponsor that was a Chinese water sponsor, but during the pandemic, they couldn't get the water in Oh my god. Ye, and so they had to buy So the company had to give money to Tennis Australia and so they then went out and bought water bottles. Oh my god, but they couldn't have the water bottle whatever it was, aquafina or whatever you know, Fiji or something. They couldn't have the sponsor of that. They couldn't have the the tag on the right because that was not the sponsor right, So they wanted the water bottles just to be a.

00:49:07
Speaker 2: Water bottle with nothing on.

00:49:09
Speaker 1: Ruffa was the only one that was allowed to have the tag on because he needed it to be able to turn it and have it the same right. So I think it was a combination of fear and anxiousness and o c DNUS. But I also think he had the most incredible respect for any opponent. Yeah, So I think that you know, even when you you know, when you they would ask him in press, well this guy you're playing, he's a lucky blah blah blah whatever. He would be like, yeah, you know, in his mind, he's like, yeah, he's a great player. I need to he respected like every one that played against He didn't take anything for granted. And that to me is a combination maybe a fear, but also of unbelievable humility for sure. And I just think he had incredible respect for the game. He never took anyone for granted. Yeah, and you know, and he didn't he didn't even on clay, even on the court he'd barely lost a match on So for me, his it's undeniable to me that to me, he's the greatest fighter I've ever seen. I've never seen him tanker point and I've seen plenty of the top players give away a set, tank a game, not give a shit from you know, even Roger sometimes he would, you know, get the ships for a game or something and you know, get a little bit chirpy or you know. Novak's tossed games left and right at times. You know, I think he to me, Rafa and Stephie were the same person.

00:50:40
Speaker 2: Interesting.

00:50:40
Speaker 1: They never quit on a point. They didn't take anything for granted. They respected everyone they played against. They respected the game, and every point was important to them, from first point to last point, if they were winning or they were losing. They never ever ever gave up on a point. And to me, those two were the greatest I've ever seen at that for sure.

00:51:00
Speaker 2: Interesting. Yeah, yeah, that's a great and a guy.

00:51:04
Speaker 1: I was so bummed. I didn't bump into him and I went to watch the last match.

00:51:08
Speaker 2: How was that? Did you cry?

00:51:11
Speaker 1: I didn't cry, I because I was hoping to see him again. Because they he lost the singles and then Alcarez one and then what what made me the happiest? And if anyone follows me on Instagram, I did do a live from that match. And the thing I got the most joy out of watching in the doubles because the guy has lost seven six seven six, was watching Rougher watching that, because I've never seen a guy more pumped watching another crew trying to win a match. I mean, he was up out of the stands. He was like pointing his finger for there is no doubt in the next two or three years he will be the captain of the Davis Carton Spain. He was yelling, shited David Farrer. He was calling him over, he was going up, he was saying stuff to him. It was like he was yelling at Alcaz. He was like pointing his finger. He was wag. It was just it was so great to watch. All of it was great. None of it was over the top, no, none of it was like inappropriate. He was just so into it. He fucking loves tennis. He loves tennis. And that's I know Roger loved tennis, but I think Roger loved tennis and the whole thing about his fame, and he loved the people, and he loved being loved. Rafa just loved to compete. I mean the effort that he put in in the singles match, knowing he played like what five matches in a year. I mean, he was trying so hard to the ends of the earth of that match, and he had no chance of winning.

00:52:41
Speaker 3: Imagine Rafa had qualified for the that would have been with like five matches.

00:52:46
Speaker 1: But it was just He's just, you know, we'll wrap it up on him. He has always been my favorite player, and I think the reason is because to watch him give every single thing. And then I and then we started seeing all the everyone started doing these compilations of his greatest points for his career. Oh my god, I forgot how fast he was, yeah, because you know he's gotten slower. Yeah, and that's one thing you could see. And his forehand was a bit short, but fucking hell. Some of these best points ever that wire put together by like Tennis TV and the ATP and all this sort of stuff. Some of the shots that he ran down and hit. Oh my god, I'm going to miss him so much and I will.

00:53:31
Speaker 3: Have the hardest of hardest takes here. I think it could have been much better if he had less fear in him, because I think, because have you ever watched in practice, he plays in practice ten times the speed that he played in the matches, because he got so tight and everything got short, and sometimes he would you could get the glimpses. And that's why I loved the match up between Novak and Rauffa, because Raffa respected Novak. He knows he's the greatest player that he's ever And it's interesting because I talked to Tony Nadal and I asked him who do you think is the best and he said, I think Novak And he said the reason for that is Novak sees the ball like nobody else. He says, like Novak is the only one who can Rafa's forehand. Novak is the only one. So he took He gave an example. He said, the first few times when Rafa played Novak, Novak tried to take the forehand Rafa's forehand on the rise with his back end, and he like mistimed it a few times and was late on it. And then in the third match he had perfect timing every time on that back end. And he said he had the best eyes and I think sometimes you caught glimpses of what Rafa.

00:54:38
Speaker 2: That Rafa was able to play.

00:54:40
Speaker 3: Even better, which is crazy because they when Novak, they all, yes, it's all improved so much.

00:54:46
Speaker 1: Yes, I had to they had to.

00:54:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's the.

00:54:48
Speaker 1: Difference between great and very good. This is a very good try and get better at their weaknesses, but they kind of like still there. Like you know, Zverev's forehand, for example, is if he can make that more solid under pressure, under pressure, because he still hits it great, but it's always under pressure. Get to a tiebreak three old bang bottom of the net twenty feet out, you're like, fack, this guy can't. You've got to be able to do that under pressure. And those guys, because under pressure all the time, just get better and better at their weaknesses. I mean, Raffa improved Roger's backhand.

00:55:23
Speaker 2: Because he had to.

00:55:24
Speaker 1: He had to step in and hit his back end better, and he did. You know, Novak's forehand was not good when he was young. It was all over the place. His serve was terrible. Never misses a forehand. Now arguably his foehand's better than his back end, you know, And it's happened it's all the things, and I don't know I could talk about Rafa.

00:55:45
Speaker 3: Sorry how much we are talking for Yeah, we're pretty good. We haven't seen each other for so long.

00:55:51
Speaker 1: I know, I know, I know we've got a lot to h to rant on about. But I do want to throw out a big thanks to a beautiful resort in Spain in Malaga. Before I went to Malaga, I went to Marbaya and I went to the Punta Ramano resort. Have you been no? Oh? God? Apparently Stephie used to go here a lot. I didn't know that. Somebody told me that.

00:56:12
Speaker 2: Oh, I told you that it's closed. Did you go to my Mabaya?

00:56:16
Speaker 3: That's where she was in but she was the German coach, and klaushofsays, who has a place a police.

00:56:23
Speaker 1: Well, Novak apparently has a house in Mabay and practices at this Punta Romano. Gabyin Ya Mugarutha used to hit there and then also Parla Badosa still practices there. So it's a beautiful club. It's like at least twelve clay courts. There's a couple of padel courts and two hard courts, and apparently a lot of players Dan Evans. They go there and they hit on that hard court prior to going to the Straight Open. But I just want to throw out a big thank you to the Punta Ramano Resort because they gave me a couple of nights there and it was great. I loved it before I went out to Malaga. Marlaga is a beautiful city. Fed Cup will not be back there, but Billy Jin King, I can't. Sorry, I shouldn't say fed Cup, but you were in it for I was in a for twenty something years. But the Billy Jean King Cup was great. Billy Jane was over there. She just turned eighty one. Billy, I know Billy and Lana listened to the podcast and I just want to Billy Jane eighty one. It's going strong.

00:57:15
Speaker 2: I just want to.

00:57:17
Speaker 1: Than any of us.

00:57:18
Speaker 3: I know she has more energy than any Like when I wake up in the morning, I think, like, what would Billy Jin King? But I want to say one thing. I didn't know she listened, but if she listens here. I wrote my second book. It's called Time to Get Out of Here. I just roughly translated it. It's about my last year in tennis.

00:57:38
Speaker 2: And in my.

00:57:40
Speaker 3: Thank you notes, I thank three people or three person let's say, and it's Billy Jan King, it's David Foster Wallace and my family.

00:57:52
Speaker 1: Damn it.

00:57:53
Speaker 2: I didn't make that, and I wanted so.

00:57:55
Speaker 3: In my first book, I thanked everyone that it was very personally important to me. But in the second book, I wanted to think, like figures that are bigger than me, and that I have to be thankful for life choices I made, and Billy Jan King was one because if she hadn't been there in women's tennis, there wouldn't have been a career that I could mourn, because the whole book is about mourning an identity, a career, something that gave me agency in life, that gave me independ conduit.

00:58:24
Speaker 1: For your life.

00:58:25
Speaker 3: Sorry, yes, was your conduct, I wouldn't I Nothing in my life would have been possible in the way it was because I played tennis and I wasn't a Grand Slam champion. I wasn't that great, but I was good. And that's why I thank Billy Jan King because without her I wouldn't even have a career to mourn, and so I just wanted to say that she's in my thinking.

00:58:42
Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting because The last part that I put out was Billy, Jane and Alana, and she said that she feels like well, actually, her publicist Tip said, he doesn't feel like tennis plays take the tennis with them anymore, like the history of the tennis with them anymore. Right, So then they go to China or they go to Riot and they take all this money. They don't take the history of tennis, they don't take the history of what women fought for with them anymore. They just go collect the check and get out of there. I think Cocoa, for someone of her age, understands it really well. I think she's very aware. I think it's of course being of a person of color as well. I think she understands very much the fight for quality, the fight for women, clearly to fight for black and brown and people of color of this country.

00:59:26
Speaker 3: Well, what I will say so much black women were the only ones who didn't let us down here.

00:59:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would drop a mic, but I can't drop this one because it's too expensive. But you are correct, let's not even get into that. But yeah, so I think that you know her saying what she said, and you saying just what you said. There, Hopefully there are still people that are playing on tour that think, like you, understand the history of tennis.

00:59:52
Speaker 3: And hopefully they're better tennis players than I was, because well it translates, Yeah, you know it is in the and the end. Tennis is about results and what you win. And if Coco wins more, Cocoa will have a bigger voice, and her voice is very important to say.

01:00:08
Speaker 1: And one of the things Billy said was that she was so well not Billy, she wasn't in Saudi Arabia, but a lot of people said that a lot of young girls really gravitated towards Coco.

01:00:18
Speaker 3: Yes, she had the biggest fans, so I called them, and she definitely had the biggest fan base.

01:00:23
Speaker 2: I actually wrote it in myself.

01:00:24
Speaker 3: There was like, ah, people somehow really warm to Coco, and I think they feel that she stands for something more than just well she does.

01:00:32
Speaker 1: Because she does, and she's proven it with her own words. Anyway, we could talk for hours, We're not going to because we're gonna cut this one short now, and we are we're going to cut this one off now. But what I will say is we will talk about what we think about what's going to happen next year, what's gonna happen in Australia and all that next week, because we don't want to jump the gun there, because we could stand here and talk for hours well, and Kaitlin will be with us, and Caitlyn will be and we will talk all about what we feel like is going to happen next year, what to look for, what you and I are up to. I want to talk about your book and how that's been going. You've been publicizing that, which is why you've been away from me so long.

01:01:11
Speaker 3: I know, I'm so sorry, but now I'm here, I'm glad and read my substick finite Jesz.

01:01:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's honestly, it was really good. I read it every single week this week. I wanted to read it because I knew you coming on and I loved your take on Raffa. And you've got a lot of great publicity, great responses. People were like, oh, I've read a lot on it, but no one said how you put it?

01:01:33
Speaker 3: Well, that's so many things have been written and said about him. Of course, he's one of the greatest tennis players we've ever had.

01:01:38
Speaker 2: So I wanted to have.

01:01:40
Speaker 3: Something and that's why I think I think maybe Rafa fans won't like it, although a lot of did, but just because I wanted to also work out why it was so hard for him to like go, you know, because it's easy to It's addiction.

01:01:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an addiction.

01:01:55
Speaker 2: Yeah.

01:01:56
Speaker 1: And we love our sport. We loved and we love to.

01:02:00
Speaker 2: And Rafa fucking loves tennis and that's one thing you.

01:02:03
Speaker 1: Can I think you myself included Rafa. We loved the competition as well, and there was there's nothing like winning a tennis match and putting yourself on the line. So we're gonna finish it now by saying, Rafa, thank you so much for everything you gave to this sport, for inspiring so many young people to come along and play this sport with the heart and the respect and the class that you did. You were a special, special tennis player and we are going to fucking mess you, my friend. Okay, guys, thanks for listening to us this week.

01:02:37
Speaker 2: We'll be back next week with.

01:02:40
Speaker 1: More Shenanigans here from the podcast. Appreciate you, bye too.

01:03:00
Speaker 3: Yeah,