Mike Tomlin Steps Away From Steelers, Coaching Carousel Roundup

00:00:03
Speaker 1: Welcome to NFL Daily, where it's the end of an era. I'm Greg Rosenthal here with my friend Jordan Rodrigue in the Chris Westling podcast studio. Ready to talk about a lot of coaching news from around the league and looking at some of the openings and vacancies. But yes, this is the day where we talk about Mike Tomlin stepping down after nineteen seasons as head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers. Jordan, I have a big question for you. What were you doing in two thousand and six when Mike Tomlin took over that job? Oh my god, he was thirty four years old. I'm going to give you some time by doing some talking. You know, math is not my for take. Greg, I think I was like twelve, Okay, I think, so you're just going to sixth grade or something. Yeah, maybe fourteen.

00:00:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I was a lot of changes in the in one's body happened.

00:00:58
Speaker 1: WHOA, Okay, we're just talking about coaching here, Jordan, No, that's insane to think that. Yeah, you're about the age of my daughter. You know, I was over at road a world covering the NFL at the time, and I remember Mike Tomlin maybe NBC had just bought us. Was a relatively unknown assistant. Relatively, I would say he had some buzz as like a position coach with Tony Dungee back with the Bucks. And then he did have one year as a defensive coordinator under Brad Childress, but Brad Childress was a defensive play caller and defensive coach, so sometimes you don't get a lot of attention. And it was a surprise higher and it went fantastic. He wins a Super Bowl what in his second season? He gets back there early on too. It's been a minute, and I guess we aren't shocked, Jordan, because we've been talking about this for the last month plus as a possibility, and yet when you see the news, it still does feel like a shock, even though we literally were talking last night on the Monday Night Show that this could be it. It's a sea change. It's in the end of an era.

00:02:04
Speaker 2: As you mentioned, Greg, you'll never forget kind of the day that this changed. He is an institution in football, He is an institution in the NFL. He was the picture of consistency, whether that was a good thing or whether it eventually became a negative for him as well, but when you talk to any coach who's coming into the league, any coach who has been in the league for years at this point, and there are very few with the tenure now that you know Mike Tomlin had and that John Harbaugh before him had as well.

00:02:35
Speaker 1: All of it was just awe.

00:02:37
Speaker 2: If only we can have a career like the one that Mike Tomlin had, if only we could establish a legacy like the one that he established. That is the sentiment pouring out of these buildings right now. A lot of respect for that guy.

00:02:50
Speaker 1: And the immediate thought, you know, for this what's going to be next for the Steelers in Tomlin. In terms of Tomlin, Ian Rappaport and various inside him specifically talked about the Fox job could be open, like that Jimmy Johnson's seat. They never really filled that because you know, you got to get six guys to fill three minutes, you know, at halftime, instead of five or a week and you should, you should, especially if it's Mike Tomlin, that that might that's been one that has kind of been put out there. Sounds to me like maybe that's the one Mike Tomlin wants. That TV might be an idea for him, similar to Sean Payton a few years back. Remember he spent a year with the Fox crew and then he jumped right back and you never know. He's He's fifty three years old, so a relatively young man for you know, head coaching. But I remember when Bill Kauer lost his job with the Steelers, the expectation was he was always going to return. He was always rumored for all these different head coaching jobs in the NFL, A and coachman. He just never did because he didn't need the money, and he realized, like, this is nice. So you never know, what do you think? What does your gut tell you about that? The few of Mike Tomlin.

00:04:02
Speaker 2: I think TV would be great for him. I don't think he stays away for long. That's just me personally. I remember a story, Greg. I was lucky a couple of years ago to go be a fly in the wall shadowing scouts at the Senior Bowl. And there's this room in the convention center in Mobile, Alabama, and it is curtained off and all the prospects go through and they do what they call the car wash. It's these fifteen minute pieces of interviews that really don't tell you much, but no coaches go to the Senior Bowl unless they are very much a high draft pick, unless they're coaching in it, which means their team was really bad. No coach really wants to be there. Mike Tomlin wanted to be there. Mike Tomlin would love to visit with everybody. He loved connecting with the scouts. I remember he would poke his head through these curtains into these different sections and sort of like prank the other teams that were around him. This is a man who loves ball. He loves ball, he loves the process of football. And that's why I think, take a break, yes, survey the landscape, understand the ways that the league has changed. You probably haven't had time to do so in many, many years. And then I do think that he's going to be one of the most coveted coaching hires in this next cycle.

00:05:08
Speaker 1: I almost feel bad for John Harbor because Harbo was only there one less year than Tomlin. Yeah, Tomlin does feel like a bigger deal. He just felt like such an institution and as I mentioned, he was an unknown assistant when he arrived there. He leaves there tied with Chuck Knowle. Poetic right for ninth in all time regular season wins in NFL history. And here's the list of the coaches in front of him, Don Shula, George Hallis. That's from nineteen twenty to sixty seven. You get to have a long run when you own the team. Bill Belichick, Andy Reid, Tom Landry, Curly Lambeau, Paul Brown. These guys have the stadiums named after them. And then shout out to Marty Schottenheimer at eight underrated. Now one thing Tomlin has in common with Schottenheimer. He's the only one on that list with a losing record in the postseason eight and twelve streak. Multiple things are true time, which is that he's a very good coach to maybe even great. The fact that he could keep that record of staying at five hundred or better all this time despite the quarterbacks that he's had the last five or six years, that says a lot. But it's interesting to think about the Steelers fans in your life or maybe even in the media, that they're not disappointed about this. It's sad to think about, but they got their they got the doors blown off them on Monday night, and unfortunately, the last image I'll think about for that game is the fans chanting fire Tomlin, which sucks. You should feel bad, You don't. You never need to be that fan with a legend like it's gonna happen or not. But maybe just like a little static in a league that's so inconsistent. It is remarkable how consistently they were at this exact level, the twelfth to fourteenth best team in the league, just good enough to get their doors blown off in the playoffs. And I think he was tired of it. You know, there was a source I think that told our insiders too, like what more does he have to prove? And I think in Pittsburgh that makes sense because I think he had kind of proven that it probably wasn't going to change. So I think it's probably ultimately good for everyone, even though the Roonies really weren't going to go and fire him or anything like that.

00:07:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that the Rooneyes because this felt inevitable. I think the Rooneys seem to so far as news of this keeps trickling out and sort of the situation is becomes more known, I think the Rooney's handled it with the class that you would expect, right because it's being framed very much as his decision and a mutual decision certainly, but that he had the autonomy to say to have the conversation with them. I think one of the things that goes so unspoken, and we did talk about it yesterday, was it took so long to find quarterback play that even near competent for even good for the rest of the season. You know, Aaron Rodgers struggled a little bit out of the gate, but then played very well down the stretch.

00:08:08
Speaker 1: It took them so long.

00:08:10
Speaker 2: It took him so long to have that, And this the irony of this. It can put such a strain on you when everything else the rest of the team seems built at least to be above average if they had better quarterback play over the seasons, and they just didn't. And then they finally get a quarterback who is a veteran, who is the best case scenario in a situation where they tried and failed to get other names and all of that. How straining that is to go through as a head coach when you're like, my defense cannot win a championship for this team.

00:08:45
Speaker 1: And their defense was a big part of the problem this year, and I don't think he had his best year coaching that defense. I think they played better down the stretch, but ultimately I think they underperformed as well considering the money and the talent that was there. You mentioned Art Rooney the statement that the Steelers released. He said during our meeting today, Coach Tomlin informed me he decided to step down as our head coach. Extremely grateful to Mike for all the hard work, dedication. Hard for me to put into words, and I'm skipping a couple words here, but the level of respect and appreciation I have for Mike Tomlin. He guided the franchise to our sixth Super Bowl and made the playoffs thirteen times during his tenure, winning the AFC North eight times. His track record of never having a losing season in nineteen years will likely never be duplicated. It is funny that they had that one to eight eight in one year, you know what I mean, So they have to like just be no eight in eight year. I'm sorry it wasn't eight eight in one that was in the sixteen game schedule, because they have to say never losing season instea instead of winning season. But just a legend and Tomlin reportedly you know, did meet with the team that the players were were kind of stunned. The reporting was that people were really careful not to ask Tomlin really about what his decision was going to because they wanted to focus on doing everything they could to possibly win playoff games in advance this season, and it didn't happen. So I don't think that it was having to deal with Aaron Rodgers for five months that finally was too much for him. But you never, you know, you never know what a catalyst am I right, I'm just joking. Do you think this is a good job. I think this is a great job.

00:10:21
Speaker 2: I think this is a great job because I do think first of all, that they're headed for a rebuild. I think that Mike Tomlin had a lot to say in how many of those defensive players that.

00:10:28
Speaker 1: They kept intact, that they paid, that they kept.

00:10:30
Speaker 2: On the roster that ended up being a little bit of a drain on the team in some ways and played well near the end there, but overall, really really top heavy, older roster that you need to move at least try to recoup some of the value from it. So if you decide as a front office, and I do believe that the front office now will obviously take more control over what the next era of this team looks like. Between Omar Khan and Andy Wheedles. There now has a long, long history with some really storied organizations and who have gone through like this. This is one of those where you kind of are able to do whatever you want as an organization. And that's why I think nothing is off the table for this team. They have a track record because they have such a sound infrastructure from ownership all the way through in the city that you could take a risk on a young coach, You could take a risk on a relative unknown coach who's never had the job, maybe who's never even called plays before, or you could say, we have momentum as a franchise, we want to go from good to great. And what if they make a trade. What if they decide we're going to trade for our next.

00:11:36
Speaker 1: Time, So Matt Lafleur, who else would be.

00:11:38
Speaker 2: Matt Lafleur, who's in a contract year.

00:11:41
Speaker 1: The whole Matt Lafleur reporting I think has gotten a little over at SKIS in terms of how people interpreted the report from Monday morning, where Ian Rappaport said that Matt Lafleur and the Packers and ed policy that the plan is to try to work on a deal. There was a lot of qualifiers in there, like that is different. That was my reaction to than having a deal. They've been in at this place before. I guess that news said like they're going to make an effort to do so, but things could change. He could want something that they don't want to give him, or vice versa, or another party like the Steelers or some team could get involved the one and I think that is an outstanding point about Tomlin in the control that he had, and you would hear that in terms of the personnel, like he had a lot of juice. And I always think it's unfair when everything got blamed on the offensive coordinator there. It's like that's it's Tomlin's team, Like just because that's his side of the ball, he's making those highers, it's his, it's his team, and so you get a refresh. The one thing is, you know, you said Omar Khan and they have had a strong front office and the lineage is very clear back to Kevin Kolbert and everything. You know, amar CON's only been there for four years, so he doesn't have as strong a track good he is relatively new in that job, and this will be kind of stepping up even in importance. And I would say the moves over the last few years are kind of like how the team on the field's been. They've been fine. They haven't been standing out good or bad in terms of their drafts. They've been kind of middle of the pack, and so it's a it's a big moment for him. I do think it's a good job ultimately, because yeah, there's only been three of the head coaches since the Beatles broke up, some of them. I guah, that's that's pretty good in the league. And you said, like, you wouldn't be surprised if they do an assistant, you know, a young assistant, or you know, maybe they could go for like a veteran if they just wanted to keep it going. But I would think based on the track record and considering, you know, it's our Rooney the second, like, I would kind of expect them to pick a young, relative unknown because that's what they've done in the past. Normally, I wouldn't think that the hiring of Chuck Nole back in the day would be at all instructive about what's gonna happened in twenty twenty six, and then of course Kauor and Tomlin. But I actually do because I think they want to be like dad in grandfather and the lineage that's made this team so successful over the last fifty years, one of the most successful franchises after by the way, being the least successful franchise for about fifty years, which I think people don't really know about, but like they were beyond I was gonna say the Browns, but the Browns were great back then. I mean, they were the worst franchise in football for about fifty years and then it all turned around.

00:14:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, And they love the reputation of being a coaching development factory and that they are patient and that they see what nobody else sees at the time because Mike Tomlin came out of nowhere. But the thing that people forget is Mike Tomlin was elbow to elbow in all these rooms with some of the great coaches that are still coaching right now. Good friends with Kyle Shanahan, good friends with Sean McVay, in the same buildings as Malthfloor in some cases been in the same buildings as a lot of these other lineages of coaching trees, and yet he was the one who got the opportunity for the earliest and he's stuck. And I think they love that idea. But I also think that this is a franchise that understands it's got to modernize in some ways in that mans help.

00:15:21
Speaker 1: And that's kind of why I ask is it a good job or not? I think it's tricky. It's a tricky job. It's a tricky job.

00:15:27
Speaker 2: But I do think that they are aware that the league has moved in a different direction. It's trended toward offense, for example, It's trended toward people who may give you a real, a legitimate edge in scheme. Those are the coaches that you hold on to for twenty years, right, Those are the coaches that you keep paying, that you keep extending, that you basically say, are our greatest advantage as an organization. Quarterbacks come and go, coaches don't get injured.

00:15:54
Speaker 1: Right.

00:15:55
Speaker 2: So this is where I think you have If you're Art Rooney and this organization, you're thinking about, what do we know we'll stick in this league, and where can we maximize that advantage? With somebody who has the traits and the talent that we know can can do this for the long haul.

00:16:10
Speaker 1: I hope they keep the identity because I do like the idea though that their identity, and I was thinking about it, It's like, what is the Steelers identay? Everyone said, it's like it's hard nose football this and then it's like they haven't been that great a running team at different points throughout there. I think of it as just edge rushers. They've had great edge rushers for thirty straight years. There's been no point where they didn't have great and you could even extend that to interior defensive lineman, just like great defensive line, and that is where you're building the team off of right now. And I've heard a lot about the rebuild and I do get that. But when I went and did the exercise that I just did for forties and free agents with Daniel Jeremiah you can check out, we went through all the NFC teams that are out of the playoffs and we just kind of looked at the cap, looked at the picks that they have, looked at the free agents and everything. The Steelers, even though they are an older team, actually don't really scream rebuild in some ways, which is that Number One. They have a lot of cap space, so that's good. Number two, like, there are guys that they might say, like is Cam Hayward gonna come back? Is he going to retire? He's playing well for the money they're paying him, but he's getting up there. You could certainly cut a few guys like Jalen Ramsey's making a lot of money. Frankly, I would expect him to get cut. Patrick Queen, Pat Fryarmuth wasn't really playing a lot this year, John new Smith. There's guys you know that you could, you know, trim the fat or whatever. But I looked at the roster and I actually didn't see like a ton of obvious moves. They have a young offensive line. They don't have a lot of key free agents beyond like Rogers and Kenny Gainwell as a free agent. That part of the team building part. Actually, I think they're kind of in a good spot where they do have some real deal talent like high Smith and Herbig and Wat and some other you know, DK I assume is gonna be you know, but they would be building. I like, I don't they could win next year. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they're winning eleven or twelve games next year, if they somehow got quarterback right, which is obviously the.

00:18:08
Speaker 2: Biggest well and to do that you need picks. You need draft picks, and less so cap space unless somebody magically springs up, you know what I mean.

00:18:18
Speaker 1: So Lincoln Matt Lafleur for a first, then a third.

00:18:21
Speaker 2: But that's what I'm saying is like, it's not I don't think it's it's certainly not a full rebuild, but it is something where you do have to clear out at least a piece of the previous fingerprints. Yes, and then you do need to come in and establish what you were, what you think you're going to be moving forward, and there's going to be turnover regardless of how much cap space they have.

00:18:42
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I just sort of thought like the that identity that I was talking about, which is like, if you just think of the players that are on the cap, you know, the books for next year, Watt, Cameron Hayward, Keanu Betten, Derek Harmon, high Smith, Herbig, I don't see a lot of reason why they all wouldn't be back. So that's like Alex Heismith could be a trade candidate because you don't feel like you can pay him along with everyone else. But they could and they kind of should. They got the space. The thing that's under the radar in terms of it being a good team, a good job or not to me is I think these family owned organizations are starting to become at a bigger disadvantage the longer we go on into this NFL life cycle. There's a few of them, and the Mars Mara's and the Chargers for instance, that are maybe a little more cash poor, you know, And are you trading ten percent of the franchise for like, you know, bad money so that you can have an infusion of cash Like that's not what the what they do, and that makes it a little more difficult to play a lot of the cap games and do some of the things that other organizations do.

00:19:50
Speaker 2: The last thing I'll say on this with Tomlin is keep an eye on Brian Flores here. Yes, because Brian Flores took a little bit of a break from his being a head coach and he went and coached in Pittsburgh. He and Mike Tomlin are very close. I would have to imagine with the mutuality that this was Tomlin has has had a say and had conversations with who he thinks would be a good person for a succession plan. If this is going to continue to be the identity of this team in terms of their defense, in terms of the pass rush, in terms of the torment on a quarterback, that's Brian Flores.

00:20:25
Speaker 1: And if ever there was an organization that would hire Brian Flores and not be worried about the fact that he was in litigation with the NFL over the Rooney rule in part, it's the root. It's the Rooney team that would that would make sense. And yes, I heard Mike Tomlin. Did you send that tweet out that he said or someone else, you know, when asked for a piece. I think it was Connor Orr.

00:20:51
Speaker 2: Actually, I think Connor Orr talked to Mike Tomlin for a piece on Brian Flora.

00:20:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he said he thought that Brian Flores was currently the best coach in the NFL that was not a head coach. All right, let's actually take a quick break, so we have a lot of other news. We wanted to give the Tomlin News the time it deserved, but we're gonna go through some of the firings that happened on Tuesday, Kevin Patulo's out, Greg Roman's out, and then just a little survey of what else is happening in all these coaching and GM searches around the league. Okay, back on NFL Daily, This news rundown that we built Jordan is long, girthy, it's big. Let's start with the least surprising news of this coaching cycle, which is that Kevin Petullo will no longer be the Eagles offensive coordinator moving forward. The Eagles were very careful and how they worded it, because there's a chance Patullo will keep a job within the organization and the building somewhere. He's been close with Nick Sirianni for a long time, going back to Indianapos and everything, but he is out, and Nick Sirianni said that he thought Patulo is a good man, a good coach, but they needed to make a change. Yeah.

00:22:08
Speaker 2: What was interesting was players were very defensive of him as well, per the reports coming out of Philadelphia after their playoff loss, talking about how this was a player issue, not necessarily coach. Now, I could say, you see them run the exact same four plays through the entire second half and tell you that it's a little bit of a.

00:22:25
Speaker 1: Coaching issue as well.

00:22:27
Speaker 2: And all of this to say is with every one of these adjustments or changes at offensive coordinator, Mike McDaniel's bag price goes up and up end up.

00:22:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, he is interviewing with five different head coaching jobs and then he'll be maybe at the top of the list for multiple like other good oc jobs like Detroit is another one.

00:22:50
Speaker 2: You imagine Saquon Barkley in this offensive line with a Mike McDaniel with some of the stuff he was doing with that Dolphins run game at the end of the season, Like you're kidding he.

00:22:59
Speaker 1: He's so different than Sirianni that I don't know. This is gonna be the.

00:23:05
Speaker 2: Fifth think about this though, Mike McDaniel and Kyle Shanahan made it work for a decade plus.

00:23:11
Speaker 1: Yes, and this is similar. This is a similar in terms of offensive philosophy. They feel like, you know, they're ultimately grew up in the same tree. It's Kyle's tree, so of course he did. But yeah, I it's I think it's a it's a very good job because of the talent, and yet it's a it's a difficult job because you can just look at the history. You're either getting a head coaching job from it, which has happened twice, or you're getting fired, which has now happened twice or three times. I mean that that's it's a it's a indication that Nick Sirianni obviously is not going anywhere. I don't think we needed like an official item from the Eagles about that, but like I was leaving like a five percent chance. Yeah, I just think it really shines the light on Sirianni and Jalen Hurts. I was listening to Chris Long, who you know, former Eagle, and you know, he was pretty direct about it about like to me, this is on it's on Hurts, and it's on Sirianni. And I think Hurts his limitations I think are fair to talk about. Yeah, he couldn't. He has. He has achieved great things in this league and especially in the Super Bowl, but his limitations and maybe Nick Sirianni's limitations have shown up, and so they're gonna have to fix that. Another limitation that I wasn't expected to talk about was the Chargers because they fired Greg Roman, and that's not shocking after the playoff exit that they have more shocking to me. I don't know if you heard this, Jordan. It's official. The film bros have turned against Justin Herbert. What They've turned their back on him. It's happening. Everyone was like, Yo, you gotta watch the tape, and then everyone kind of watched the tape and I went back and did this too, and they were kind of like, actually, hurt. I don't really think they turning the back forever. But it was a dreadful game by It was terrible. Really, it was brutal. Yeah, and I guess when you see the amount of open receivers that he turned down in that game, then you feel like, Okay, they do need a change from Greg Roman. A lot of his way of viewing offensive football seems a little outdated. But also it's not that different than other stuff that's going on in the NFL, and that it it's just unfortunate that the worst two games of Justin Herbert's career maybe and certainly of the last two seasons are his two playoff games. That's a tough spot to be that he played his very worst in those two games, especially this one, But ultimately you know, Jim Harbad decides you got to make a change the offensive line coach, and I think that's where you can blame Roman the most. He's in charge of the offensive line too, and he could never get that figured out, like in terms of where the protection was going to, like find the blitz and stunts and all that stuff. So that's kind of a fun job, I would think being the coordinator, you're looking at this these highlights and thinking it's like it's ugly.

00:26:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's the thing is with Justin Herbert, we're just gonna have to do that thing we do with really great quarterbacks who haven't won playoff games. And it's multiple things are true. We see the potential is there. You have to match him with the right person. That's okay. You can be a superhero quarterback and still need to be matched with the right coordinator and the right scheme. I'm not gonna really I think way too much of my opinion about Justin Herbert based off of this, inclusive to him clearly playing through.

00:26:37
Speaker 1: Quite a bit of pain, quite a bit.

00:26:39
Speaker 2: Of harassment upfront, clearly not as much trust as it deteriorated over the weeks with his receivers. You saw the scheme had a lot of issues where receivers are lining up in like the same spot, multiple tire running their routes to the same spot, and multiple times like no, you're not gonna throw it there if it only takes like one to twelfth of a defense or one eleventh of a defense to cover three receivers, Like you're just not going to be doing that. So I feel like this is again multiple things. He has greatness left in Greg, get him with the.

00:27:12
Speaker 1: Right I know. I just I saw, like I didn't see this. This is crazy. Yeah, So like talk about a turning moment, theo ash had one, and then I texted it uh to our friend Ali will be on the show tomorrow and asked what he thought, and he was like, yeah, oh it was bad. He was just like it was a it was a brutal Herbert game. Now you can make the case I think that the culmination of all that this season was started to catch up with Herbert at the end. I've always been a defender, but it did seem like he got in his head. Yeah, in this particular circumstance. And that's difficult because look, I had him on my MVP ballot. I think he had a ridiculously good regular season considering the circumstances, and I always hesitate to like put anything about playoffs regular season, like to me, a lot of it seems like chance. But maybe after the mistakes that he made last year in the playoffs, that he got a little in his own head, kind of like CJ. Stroud did on Monday Night, but in a much different way that he just didn't want to make any mistakes which ended up resulting in him making the situation much worse. So I'm very curious Todd Monkin is out there. He's interviewing for different jobs. He's interviewed for the buckso See job. I believe he interviewed for the Browns head coaching job. But it's interesting to think about John Harbaugh and Jim Harbaugh and potentially Jesse Minter all fighting not just over Monkin because he'll definitely have a job with one of those three, if not somewhere else, but over a lot of similar coaching tree type of guys. Assuming jesse Minter does have a job, which I'm going to just go ahead and assume because he has been requested by every single team that has a vacancy. That's eight teams, and I bet the steel will make it nine.

00:29:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And I can see why. Got to catch up with them for a while after a training camp practice, and he knew this was coming. He has a vision for how he wants to build a team. He comes from an infrastructure of team building. He coaches a great defense, but he also has connectivity to a lot of other pockets and a lot of other people in the league that then have intern connectivity with great coaches. He's seen what great quarterback play looks like, He's seen what it needs to be better. I just think that he's a really well rounded candidate. But again, a lot this is such a we talked about this before, including Jesse Minter. Never done it before at this level, very little actual NFL even coordinating experience. So this is a gamble on a lot of these candidates, regardless of sort of their coaching tree, pedigree.

00:29:52
Speaker 1: Or what have you. Right, he seems like a guy that people are impressed with the person and that he's gonna do well in the room, and so he'll he'll probably get one of these jobs. Who knows Steele like he kind of fits the Steelers Bold just a guy that a younger guy that you could build around for a long time. The Ravens are potentially looking for a similar type of head coach. Steve Bushati wasn't expecting to put him in the rundown today and then he just made it impossible not to more. Steve Bushatti press conference is Steve Bushatti, by the way, is the owner of the Ravens. And he was asked a great question on Tuesday, which was about his kicker, Tyler Loop and the world in which Tyler Loop actually made that kick against the Steelers a week ago.

00:30:45
Speaker 3: If Tyler Loop makes that field goal, is John Harbass still here coaching this team.

00:30:51
Speaker 4: For a week?

00:30:54
Speaker 5: For a week?

00:30:54
Speaker 1: Okay? The reporter was kind of like, oh, I didn't expect such a great answer. Wow, it was he was. That was to the point, just be honest, like, of course, and that's we talked about it when we said, man, they have all these candidates lined up and they're talking to them like, oh right away. They look like they were ready to do this. They had planned to do this for a couple of weeks. Now. Bashati did say he talked to players after the season was over on Monday night, and he termed it like eighty to twenty that you know they were making this decision anyways, but he talked to Lamar Jackson about, you know, the change at head coach.

00:31:35
Speaker 4: As you all know, you've gotten to know Lamar about as well as I have. And Lamar is really really a non confrontational person. And when I spoke to him Monday night, he said, to me, everybody's saying I got a problem with Monkin. I don't really have a problem with Malkin. I don't know where that comes from. And he said, and then I hear, I've got a problem with Harbes, and I don't have a problem with Harbes. I don't know where that comes from. Uh, we got to make changes, probably, but that's that's probably more for you, and.

00:32:21
Speaker 1: E this is a you problem. It is a problem, and it's a you problem. I love a press conference that we actually learned things from. Yeah, I believe all that, but that's also like, how does a non confrontational person try to get someone fired? Not that that they're trying, but like if they were to think that that was a good idea, that would be how it would be done. And yet, of course I believe him and Todd Monkin has talked about this after the fact too. I don't I don't think that like he had a problem, but he probably recognized that it was time. And I the biggest news I took from this entire press conference is that Bashadi just made it very clear, like this is the best job in the league because we have Lamar Jackson. Yeah, we are planning to continue to have Lamar Jackson. We want to have Lamar Jackson. In fact, Eric Tacosta said that he's been texting, you know, Lamar with how each head coaching interview has gone. And I think Bashadi might have said something like, hey, when they called me up to meet from Florida to go meet like who's maybe going to be their choice, you know, to meet the head coach, Like I want you to get on that plane too and go meet him. So I think they're making it very clear, not that they're choosing anyone in the divorce, but how important Lamar Jackson is to this entire process in this organization, Yeah, and maximizing him.

00:33:48
Speaker 2: It's it's just exactly what we talked about with the Steelers job. What gives you the biggest edge? Where are your competitive advantages over the rest of the league. It's a quarterback very quite clearly and bluntly. Where else can you develop an advantage to maximize than that competitive advantage, you need to have a coach who gives Lamar Jackson a greater edge. It's a similar thing we're talking about justin Herbert. Just because he can do all the things doesn't mean it should always fall directly on You have to do something insane and incredible and improbable in order to get us through this next phase of contention.

00:34:25
Speaker 1: No, it should never be that way ever. And I'll be fascinated to see for some reason, because it's the Ravens. I was just expecting like these like really exciting names or somehow it would be different, and then they you see, like the graphic it's like interviewed Matt Naggy, and I'm like, oh kay, come on, Ravens, you can do better. But then I look at the list. Okay, it's really long. Joe Brady, Brian Flores. I think I think it's one of only two for Flores, maybe the only one Vance Joseph Cliff Kingsbury. That was another notes like Clint Kubiak, Mike McDaniel, jesse Mian, Matt Naggy, Jim Schwartz. That's interesting. He also interviewed for the Browns job, and they want to keep him. If they don't get him as head coach, maybe as coordinator. Kevin Stefanski would be interesting if he moved in state in the same division. Anthony Weaver, and then Davis Webb, who is the Broncos quarterbacks coach. One thing I think is really important to point out with this that's a long list, like twelve thirteen names. They're not even meeting in person now. It's not allowed if you have a job. Some of them are in person. I shouldn't say that if these coaches don't have jobs. If you're unemployed. If you're unemployed, you can go meet in person. But many of these coaches are still under contract and so they're not in person. So it depends. It depends on the coach. But I think that's important to note. You can only start meeting in person with the employed coaches like jesse Mentter, for instance, starting next week. And so they have purposefully kind of slowed down this process, which I think is really healthy. If you've and I was kind of wondering, I was like, this. This is interesting how not that it's gone slow, but now that there's nine teams out there, a lot of the same name, like it's going to be an interesting game of like chicken, of like, well, we better move first, you know what I mean. It's but you don't want to move too fast because maybe there's other guys out there, like Tomlin just in theory became available. Not that I think he's going to be looking for a job.

00:36:21
Speaker 2: But yeah, And I think that's why if you're a team that was maybe considered to be somewhat appealing opening at the start of all of this carousel, but now you are very far down the ladder because two really really great infrastructural jobs and the Steelers and the Ravens came open, and you know, there's other jobs that maybe look appealing because they have a quarterback or because they've got the right person in place at GM or whatever. And now you're like, oh, shoot, like I might miss my number one candidate. He might go somewhere else, or I might have to get into a bidding war. That's why I think Greg I needed to happen. I need a trade to happen.

00:36:57
Speaker 1: That's okay if there's going to be a trade. Who else to be well, now Tomlin is another candidate for trade. I should have pointed out because he retired or just stepped away, they essentially own his contractual rights. It's the exact same situation that Sean Payton had a couple of years ago, and the Broncos have to give up pretty decent compensation to get Sean Payton, which is why, by the way I think that he wasn't the number one pick for Denver was that was kind of a downside to hiring Sean Payton when they had an option to possibly hire Demico Ryans or Dan Quinn in that cycle. But you don't have to give up any picks for those. You'd have to do that for Mike Tomlin. You'd have to do that for Matt Lafleur. Is there someone else I'm missing?

00:37:38
Speaker 2: I'm going through really quickly in my brain right now. I don't know that I could think of someone who would be more a more attractive, potentially.

00:37:44
Speaker 1: Even just at all tradeable.

00:37:46
Speaker 2: This could really happen. He might, he could be actually tradable. But this got on my radar because now this is not going to happen. Let me be clear to the listener that this one happened. But it got on my radar because last week Sean McVay was joking about and he's not joking, but he's joking about how they he got some trade some trade calls, like some re questions about you know, this is not going to happen. He's you know, he'll be the Rams coach until he decides he's done coaching. But that got my radar up that teams are actually thinking about this in ways where I think they should be thinking about this. It's the same going into the trade deadline for players on the final year of their contract, if they have not been extended by the team yet. You should absolutely be thinking about this organizationally the same way you think about a star player. Because I know it's the players and we agree on that, but you know, I love coaching, and this, to me is one of the greatest advantages an organization can have is finding the right coach. And an executive who's been doing that a long time told me once that the best decision they ever made was to find the correct coach who's been at the organization for a long time, because that means they never have to do it again. And that's that's kind of the point, is all of this turnover continuity.

00:38:55
Speaker 1: I haven't bought a car in ten years. It's still want to deal with the whole problems.

00:38:58
Speaker 2: You and Patrick have the same car and it's a door. But the thing that is such an advantage and will be over the next two seasons, especially in this league, is continuity. It's going to become an advantage and a weapon for these teams who have a head start over nine teams that are missing a head coach right now.

00:39:16
Speaker 1: You yeah, as you're talking about it, I'm like, if Kevin O'Connell hadn't just resigned in Minnesota, he might have been an interesting one. There's always some drama with the Vikings. There is right now because they don't know if Brian Flores is going to be back. In fact, while we're here, yeah, I wasn't even going there pro And we have a lot still on this rundown. And I've actually been updated to some breaking news that Steven, the friend of general manager John spy Tech of the Raiders, who had some input that he really wanted John spy Tech at the combine to get the quarterback position right. This year is actually in the building here already, because you know, I'm going to show him around a little bit after words, and who knows, maybe the Raiders will trade for a head coach they by the way, John Spytech, if he's listening out there, Even though you you really let Steven down. Yeah, John, you did what I wanted you to do with to get Gino Smith and Stephen. The whole year was like Gin's gonna suck. Gino sucks, and you know what, it wasn't a great year. I got to admit. Let's talk about what the Vikings head coach Kevin O'Connell said at his press conference today. Asked about the quarterback situation and JJ McCarthy.

00:40:31
Speaker 5: But no, I definitely want a competitive situation in that room because I ultimately think that's what will make not only are you know, the starter, but the next guy and the next guy. And we've learned we've got to get a lot of guys ready to play, and we've got to do it with a responsibility of uh being the best version of our offense. And the quarterback has a huge role in helping.

00:40:53
Speaker 1: Us do that. They asked this a couple of different ways. I believe QUESTI was involved in that press conference too, and they just made it very clear that they're open at quarterback. Yeah, wonder if Aaron Rodgers would.

00:41:06
Speaker 2: Which it sounds like last offseason just far less open about that.

00:41:11
Speaker 1: Fair fair, But now I think they've made it obvious, which I found interesting because I didn't know that they were necessarily going to handle it that way this offseason. But they're kind letting Jjim McCarthy know he's not necessarily the Week one starting quarterback. But we'll see. We haven't hit the Matt Ryan news. Matt Ryan was hired as the team president of the Atlanta Falcons. His qualifications are that he once was the quarterback of the Atlanta Falcons and he looks good in a suit and no, I'm just kidding. Let's listen to Arthur Blank talking about Matt Ryan's new role.

00:41:48
Speaker 6: We couldn't be happier having that back in the position that he will he will he is at now, which is the president football basically that means everything but between football and grass he is responsible for Helly.

00:42:04
Speaker 2: I kind of love that title. Could someone say that about me? I would love that everything between the football and grass.

00:42:11
Speaker 1: That's it's a lot. I'm a I'm a little skeptical just because you know, what, what qualifications does he really have? But in Arthur Blank, you know, sometimes this happens, you want to bring back like your old glory. But also, you know, Matt Ryan seems like a smart, capable person, and I like the fact that, unlike Tom Brady and Stephen's Raiders, he's not just you know, moonlighting every once in a while, like oh yeah, I'll run an NFL team as my seventh different job. He quit CBS, like this is going to be his main job, and he emphasized over and over in this press conference to the point where you almost are like, all right, you're protesting a little too much that he will not be involved in, like the picking of the players and the football decisions. That's going to be the GM's job and the coach's job. But he is going to be the one ultimately that's picking the GM and helping the coach. And he just said his job will be to be of service to them in whatever way a boss is of service.

00:43:13
Speaker 2: So I talked to someone last week who had previously worked in Atlanta for a really long time and was there when Matt Ryan was previously there playing as a player. And the thing that this person said was that for however mysterious this job and its description and its actual tangible role is the one thing that can be assured about Matt Ryan is that he is nobs and he is not afraid to speak up, which that person said has been a problem in Atlanta for a long time, and so to call out things that need to be changed to make fixes or to seek problem solving in ways that are maybe a little bit more direct, I think that that could be a benefit, especially if it's somebody with the gravitas of the greatest quarterback, really the greatest quarterbacks and franchise history to have that sort of poll. This also means to me that Ian Cunningham is the favorite for that GM role. Ian Cunningham and Ryan Poles have worked closely together obviously for years. Ryan Poles and Matt Ryan have a very very good relationship. There's been some reporting out there that Ryan Poles has been sort of an ear to bend for Matt Ryan when Matt Ryan's talking about the GM, the GM process and figuring out, you know, problem solving and correcting that alignment between head coach and general manager, so we'll see. I still don't like the fact that it's all these search firms and stuff that's in it.

00:44:39
Speaker 1: But what it sounds like they knew exactly what they were going to finish with the curious. I do like that that point though, that here is a man, Matt Ryan, maybe the only one that can actually be real with the billionaire owner. You know, tell them what is the head? Yeah, all right, we're gonna have to We're gonna have to fire through it. We'll speed round it up John Harbaugh. I wouldn't say it's quieted down, but it hasn't been like as crazy. Atlanta announced the interview with John Harbaugh. Now wasn't in person, but they announced the interview with him. He also reportedly broke bread with the Giants, including Chris Mara, who, if you were reading the New York tabloids like twenty years ago, at one point was trying to become the Giants GM and then his own dad essentially said no, you can't become the Giants GM because the other owner was like, no, I'm not letting you hire your son to be the GM. And now you know, John Mora is unfortunately like having a cancer battle publicly and Chris mara is suddenly kind of brought into this situation. It is very cinematic, I guess would be the word, or I don't know what the word would be, but it sounds like a movie that he's now be coming a big part of this process. And yeah, he broke bread with John Harbaugh. Your colleague Diane Orsini reported that the Titans, the Giants, and the Falcons are kind of the three and leaders in the clubhouse for John Harbaugh. Yeah, they're one you would want to see out of those three.

00:46:14
Speaker 2: Well, I can understand specifically why the Titans and the Giants are wanting John Harbaugh because they need complete infrastructural overhaul. They need somebody to set a foundation. I don't think this might be an unpopular comment or opinion. I don't think John Harbaugh gives you a scheme advantage. I don't think he gives you an advantage in the way that a lot of these teams are looking for an advantage.

00:46:35
Speaker 1: But there's a lot of teams that aren't even.

00:46:37
Speaker 2: At the level yet where they should or can look for that type of advantage because there's so much work to be done on an organizational level to set the actual pillars and foundation and different DNA strands of an actual like what football is and how football happens in these buildings, and someone like John Harbaugh will obviously know how to do that.

00:46:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I you know, from what we've heard, he's a little more involved in like the defensive.

00:47:03
Speaker 2: He's very hands on too, and he's very meticulous about what he wants and so teams that are rudderless really need that, and I think that's the Giants and I think that's the Titans.

00:47:12
Speaker 1: By the way. Matt Ryan also was very supportive of Michael Pennock, saying he was a big fan of Mike, as he said, and we're going to support him however we can for what that's worth. So we'll see where Harbaugh goes Lafleur, I think we've kind of hit that. Yes they're trying to work on a new deal, but that needs to still be finished, so more in this space. We'll keep an eye on that.

00:47:35
Speaker 2: Just think about it, and yes, absolutely, but I'm thinking about it the way I think about it with players and ladies. If he wanted to, he would, right like if you wanted to extend the guy, extend you would have extended him already. So there's a hang up happening in the middle here. And at the beginning of the year, there was a lot of confidence coming out of that building that this would happen and this would unfold despite the layers of the new team president and Brian gudikants there might be some some questions.

00:48:03
Speaker 1: Or maybe they're just trying to kick the can down to see what kind of trade conversation they could be offered. What do you think about this? From Denny Carter on Blue Sky that he's worried that Lafleur might have like a barber addiction that he gets his haircut, he gets that fade every forty eight hours and like it's like a shape up at halftime and everything like that's getting in the way of his coaching because it is always like incredibly fresh. What about the eyebrows, how are those being him? He is immaculately groomed. I want to ask. I don't really have a comment on David blow as the new Washington offensive coordinator, but I just wanted to point out that David Blau, the man who uh you know, once started a Thanksgiving game. That's how I remember him uh, and our friend, our friend, uh, Mark Sessler, you know the Blowheart Blawheart. He had a newsletter. He is now running the Washington offense and Dan Quinn. He kind of made it clear he's still very young, David blow but he lost some good coordinators and young coaches when he was in Atlanta when Kyle Shanahan left him and he took Mike McDaniel and whatnot with him, and he saw David Blau potentially getting an interview in Detroit, and he was like, no, I don't want to lose the next young hot shot. So David Blough is in charge of the Jaden Daniels experience in twenty twenty six. You ready, I'm so ready.

00:49:26
Speaker 2: Member of the athletics fifty under forty last year.

00:49:29
Speaker 1: Oh look at that. Yeah, quarterbacks coach of the of the Washington Commanders a year ago. The Titans have interviewed eighteen candidates. Is that too much? Feels like that? Then tells me you know what you're doing. I mean the Ravens. To be fair, I just listed off I think thirteen or fourteen for the Ravens. Fourteen of them have been previous head coaches. So it seems like they have a type like they're the only ones that they have interviewed Jonathan Gannon, they're interviewing Brian Dable. I feel like it's all information gathering. You're not losing. How do we do this well? December one question. I guess you just never know what's gonna pop up. I mentioned Mike McDaniels had five head coaching interviews. Kevin Stefanski's had six head coaching interviews.

00:50:15
Speaker 2: Can you imagine being Kevin Stefanski where like you you know, you get fired or whatever, and like you're like the bell of the coaching market ball right, You're like you've just edged out Jesse Minter because you're an offensive guy too, and you've edged out like Jeff Hafley, who's like a hot name as well. And then and then like then John Harbo's like, oh, also, I'm coming into the job market. And then you're like, Okay, I guess I'm like a lower and then Mike Toms like, hold my beer, everybody, I'm coming into the job and TV market. So now you know you're standing sort of you know, you're you're standing in the side of the dance hall.

00:50:47
Speaker 1: Nobody's asking you to dance Mike McCarthy also in the mix a little bit.

00:50:52
Speaker 2: I think Mike McCarthy would be a good hire for the Tennessee Titans.

00:50:55
Speaker 1: I really do. I've I've had that take for a while. Third time around, the Dolphins hired John Eric Sullivan at GM. We didn't hit that the former Packers staffer, so they decide and it's more important to just get the GM in place. Maybe he can deliver Matt Lafleur. That would be exciting. Why is Jeff Haffley such a popular candidate? I'm doing the thing that people do on social media where they're kind of being disingenuous and they're like, I'm just asking an honest question, But I am kind of curious. Why is he such a popular you know what?

00:51:30
Speaker 2: I was curious about this Entering the season. I talked to my colleague Matt Schneidman over who covers the Packers is a great job for the athletic and he says that Jeff Haffleys a candidate a really popular name, a because people like his scheme, but then also because players really respond to him, like he has a way a teaching progression and a way of connecting with players that really resonates he is, you know, somebody who they could really see taking a macro look at an organization. It was really it's been really striking to people within the organization too. I almost wonder too, And this is just me thinking, you know, on the fly, wondering here. I almost wonder if there's some concern for the packers. It's like, well, if we extend what if we extend Matt Lafleur this amount, you know, and pay him this much, there's also a possibility we lose Jeff Hafley. That's he's a person they don't that building does not want to lose. I do know that, So I wonder if that's weighing into some of the contract math.

00:52:27
Speaker 1: Here. From the outside looking in, I would say his packers defense haven't performed over expectations. They've just performed at expectations. They've been fine. That's just from the outside looking in, like, based on the talent that they have, maybe maybe they did. Maybe they were a little better last year than you would have expected, but nothing crazy, and then this year they were about where you would expect. With Parsons and the fact that it collapsed so badly, you know what wasn't great for him, but it wasn't great at BC either. I would say for the.

00:52:56
Speaker 2: Same reasons though that he is a popular candidate is some are reasons that like a Chrishula, for example, whose defense has greatness in it at times, but it's been just okay for for a lot of the last several weeks and maybe hasn't performed even up to their expectations heading into the season. It's it's the way that they connect with players, the way that they teach, the way that Shula obviously has the the Shula name as well, and the McVeigh thing, which is helpful. Jeff Afley has the has a little floor bump which is helpful. So it's it's one of those things. There's a lot of layers to it that make somebody a popular candidate. I think there's substance to both of those as well. It's not just sort of style points or or whether or not they're their defense is performed.

00:53:38
Speaker 1: I get it, but you want to see you want to see that, but you're right, that's not it. Sho Greg something, yeah, Greg so Befair. Mike Rabel's one year as a defensive coordinator in the NFL he had like the worst defense in the NFL, and he's turned out, yeah, a great head coach. Uh. While we're on Bears in the Packers or Packers rather, Uh, let's actually go back all the way to Sunday and let's listen to one of my favorite moments of the entire weekend, which will partly be bleeped out. We'll actually hear Ben Johnson in the locker room, and then you'll hear him asked about what happened in the locker room the following day.

00:54:32
Speaker 3: There's a rivalry that exists between these two teams, something that that I fully recognize and I'm a part of. And yeah, I mean there's I just I don't like that team. So George and I have talked and we're on the same page.

00:54:47
Speaker 1: I love it. We need more of this. I love this, real hate, real hate. I love it.

00:54:52
Speaker 2: You know what my favorite sports hate My favorite thing is so that clip goes viral. Kudos to the Bears social media team for like not editing that part out.

00:55:00
Speaker 1: All good.

00:55:00
Speaker 2: You know, they bleeped it obviously, but they didn't edit it out in their little postgame clip. My favorite thing about that entire sequence is when Ben Johnson has his press conference the next day that of course the entire all the beat writers have seen it. So the beat writers are like, well, did you mean what you said? Right?

00:55:18
Speaker 1: And I'm like, look at the man. Of course he meant what he said.

00:55:22
Speaker 2: Look at him in that moment, like he's saying it with his entire chest.

00:55:26
Speaker 1: Not only that, but he was like actually talked with ownership about him, and they say, they say, he also said the like they say the Packers too, like, forget about it, all right, We've done it. We've gone all around the league. We've talked about coaches.

00:55:39
Speaker 2: Uh.

00:55:40
Speaker 1: I like that the Browns have been interviewing guys that like aren't interviewing elsewhere. I really actually mean that. Grant Yudinsky a Jaguar, Grantski's who's your guy with the Rams? Nate Nate Schielhouse. Nate Schielhouse, a rising star might be paired with Chris Shula. You know our guy from the UK. The seahaxtensive coordinator Adden Dirty Adden Dirty Henry Hodson actually sent me a voice memo of how to say his name, and now I probably still butchered it. Dan Pitcher, the Bengals offensive coordinator, like Tommy Reese got an interview there, the offensive coordinator with the Browns last year.

00:56:16
Speaker 2: Rescott a oc interview last year too. The thing I love. I did a story when I still worked back at the Charlotte Observer on fa Obada who was the first success story of the International Pathways program. And I went out to England and I spent some time with the English football team American football team there, and all of those guys still play on the same team and on dirty comes out of there and they all just were at They traveled overseas this season to watch him coach in the Seahawks Rams game.

00:56:51
Speaker 1: How cool is that? That is badass? And yeah, there's a lot of connections. Actually, our friend from from London, Will Gavin, will be flying back viral sensations Will Gavin, who I'll be working with at the super Bowl on Talk Sport for the Super Bowl. I was fine back over for this Divisional round game forty nine Ers Seahawks. So I'm excited for that. I'm excited for this weekend. I'm glad we got this show, and I hope everyone that's listening like we love this type of season. This just figuring out and connecting all the dots. Obviously, we don't love that the Mike Tomlin lost his job, but it's a pretty cool that he got to do it on his terms and he's he's gonna be beloved there forever. I talked about some of the media people who are ready for him to go, like like a Dave damashek I feel like Steelers fans and Jarrett Bailey's another one, John Ledyard, like they're all Steelers fans in the media, they were kind of ready for him to go. But the real hardcore fans will love Tomlin, like my buddy Anthony j justsin like forever, like that is like a member of his family. And the fact that he kind of went out his way with another winning record and then said like see you later. One of one, Mike Tomlin, all right, we will be back. Our next show will be going up Thursday morning. It's a mega preview. Olly Connolly's joining us. You're gonna be there. Patrick is there. And then every year around this time we bring on Seth payin for the Seth Head Seth Pain. Same time Texans guy will be talking Texans Patriots, will go through all the games. We'll see you that