Jim Bowden’s expansion realignment ideas, Mookie’s secret meeting, Bubba Chandler time

00:00:04
Speaker 1: Part two of the movie bats meeting with Dave Roberts, and Andrew Friedman was in there too, because he was around, and apparently he was just telling him like his swing feels good, and Roberts was like, yeah, he pops into my office all the time. I hope too much wasn't made of that. It was because it's the most talked about team in baseball on the planet. We talked about it. Do we believe them? I appreciate them doing this, what being transparent?

00:00:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, I appreciate it because people had already seen it, so it wasn't like it was a hidden thing.

00:00:36
Speaker 3: I appreciate them doing. Look.

00:00:37
Speaker 2: I played for the Red Sox once and we had lost the game to the Yankees, and I went in I wented toil. All the media was gone, and I went into John Farrell's office and Ben Cherrington I think, no, I don't think Cherrington was in there, but John Farrell was in there and some other coaches, and we had we just talked about what we're thinking of what I was seeing. And Astros scored, by the way, hey, but and we were just talking about it and the next day the media comes up to was on one media person around in the clubhouse and the media comes up to me the next day and goes, so, what was your meeting about with Farrell? He said, he called you into a meeting and I was like what, And then he walked by me. What did you say? He was sorry I had to tell him and I was like, no, you didn't have to tell him. And it wasn't anything other than just talking about the team and giving you know, they wanted to know my opinion on stuff, but there was no media there. So I appreciate the Dodgers being upfront and kind of open about this, Like and by the way, if you have closed our meetings and players, you don't have to tell the media.

00:01:28
Speaker 1: I had to.

00:01:29
Speaker 2: You don't have to. Okay, you don't have to tell the media.

00:01:32
Speaker 1: Was he was he held at gunpoint?

00:01:34
Speaker 2: I don't know, well he was at the time, but I was like, what do you have to tell him?

00:01:44
Speaker 1: That was a personal mute situation.

00:01:47
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna say it, but.

00:01:49
Speaker 4: How was that kid at the National Championship game where he said to me, because I'm good?

00:01:55
Speaker 3: So what'd you say?

00:01:57
Speaker 4: I'm good?

00:01:59
Speaker 1: That was?

00:01:59
Speaker 3: That was good and aj But.

00:02:01
Speaker 2: No, I'm serious, though I appreciate this is it is. Mookie said it, Dave Roberts said it, and uh Jeez Friedman said it. Yeah, they're on the same page at least. But they they did it in front of everybody. Fine, this wasn't a closed door thing. This wasn't where nobody was around. So they answered the questions and how we move on, like, you gotta trust them, you gotta take them, you gotta take them with their word.

00:02:25
Speaker 1: Okay, coming up next, Yes, Kratz, I think we got twenty seconds.

00:02:30
Speaker 2: What do you got?

00:02:31
Speaker 4: The word right field was definitely mentioned in that meeting. Come on, stop two.

00:02:35
Speaker 3: Balls that weren't caught.

00:02:36
Speaker 4: The word was the word was mentioned.

00:02:38
Speaker 3: It was said, I don't know what context.

00:02:40
Speaker 4: Come on.

00:02:50
Speaker 1: Front Office unfiltered with our resident GM, Jim Bowden, who's wearing sweatshirt.

00:02:56
Speaker 2: Sweatshirt that looks good on him?

00:02:58
Speaker 5: What is that?

00:02:59
Speaker 1: FG at Great shot dot com? T baby, that's fantastically you look great, JB. Wow, you just made my day. I am pumped, and I'm also pumped because I nerd out about these topics and I remember your article that went super viral for articles a couple of years ago about realignment, and then of course the commissioner basically just reminded everyone that it's still going to be a thing, and it blew up again. I'm nerding out about this, JB. And then your colleague Stephen Nesbit at The Athletic put out his version of realignment last night, So let's dive into this for a few minutes. What do you think of what Nesbit put out there to try and preserve most of what the American League and National League looks like right now? And as you're talking through it will show full screen graphics so people can comprehend it.

00:03:44
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think what he did is exactly what most of the clubs would like to see with geographic realignment, which is not radical realignment, right, It's kind of let's try to preserve the American League in the National League and do it in such a way that will ruffle less feathers with the owners. That's kind of what it was. And you look at it. Look, it makes sense what I wrote two years ago in The Athletic, and I stand by it is a more radical approach. And here's my feeling on this. If you're going to realign, then blow it up and start over, right, Because if you really want to do geographic realignment, then put the teams as close together as you possibly can. Right, So in my view, that's eight divisions, four teams each. That's thirty two. And it's okay to take Dodgers, Angels, Padres, Diamondbacks and put them all in one spot, right It's okay if you want to take San Francisco, Seattle, Salt Lake City, Colorado, put them in one spot. I just feel like, and look, I know people don't want to see the Yankees, Mets, Philly's Red Sox in one division, But if you're going to do it geographically, and you really want to legitimately cut down on travel for the wear and tear of the players and the traveling parties, then why not just do it like the NBA does. You have an Eastern Conference, you have a Western Conference, and then you break them up and the schedule will be a lot easier. I think the TV ratings would be a lot better. And I think if you're going to do it, that's how you should do it. But I understand, you know what Nesbit tried to do here, and I think he's representing most of the teams and most of the people in the Commissioner's office on kind of how they envision it without completely blowing it up. But I say, if you're going to do it, blow it.

00:05:33
Speaker 1: Up, well, and I'm with you, okay on the radical part of the realignment plan. Here's where I want to get your perspective and push back. Would owners actually like this more traditional plan that doesn't ruffle feathers of where they're at right now, or would they like the plan that's more radical that, like you mentioned, saves significant money on travel. And it's not just an opinion, it's a fact. It will lead two better ratings, not only because of some of the matchups, but because of the time zones, which Commissioner Rob Manford actually mentioned in that conversation the other day. They are paying attention to how often someone on the East Coast has to watch a game that starts at ten pm East Coast time, and they would like to limit that. So again I'm going back to the radical plan and saying, do honors even want the traditional thing or do they want the most money possible?

00:06:24
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, look, I had also put a proposal into the athletic because I wanted to as soon as Commissioner Manford made that comment on Sunday Night Baseball on the ESPN, I said, let me go back to my article that I wrote in twenty three and let me update it. Now that we know the Athletics are going to Las Vegas, then it looks like Salt Lake City and Nashville probably going to be the two expansion teams, and let me take another take at it. And they chose not to have me do that. They had Nesbit do it instead. And so when I look at it, you know, I think he's representing a more conservative way that you could do it. I don't know what each owner thinks, but I'm with you on this and that's where I wrote it two years ago. I think, if you're going to do it, let's do it the right way, and that would be put the teams as close together as you can in the same time zone them. If you do it Eastern Conference, Western Conference. It's not just the divisions, it's the fact that you have the entire West Coast in both leagues now in one conference. And it makes all the sense in the world to me. And so nothing has changed in my view in two years outside of the fact that we have a better idea of who's going to get expansion and a better idea, of course, where the athletics.

00:07:36
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00:07:47
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00:08:38
Speaker 3: All right, I'm with you on this one, Jim.

00:08:40
Speaker 2: I'm with you as far as like, if you're going to do it, just make it crazy, because that way, if you have twenty owners bitching, that's better than just having two as far as I'm concern because then all the other twenty of them could look at you and say, well, you can't complain, and you can't complain because I had.

00:08:52
Speaker 3: To switch this and all that.

00:08:54
Speaker 2: So I agree with you, you're going to do it, make it crazy, and Okay, here's my thing that a question that I had and when we talk talked about this kind of yesterday was so if you go Eastern West you get rid of AL and N. I'll fine, Fine, that's what you want to do, I'm fine with it. So would the East Eastern Conference teams only play one series a year against the Western Conference teams or Western League or Eastern League or whatever there it is an Eastern League, so you can't call it the Eastern League. So you know, like what East and West Conference, East and West, whatever the hell you want to call it. But with the East teams only play once against the West and when they only travel West every other year to play each team. How would they break that down so it would be more East heavy against CE See where I'm getting out, Like, would be more East heavy? And I liked your divisions better because I want Red Sox, Yankees, Mets, who was it, Blue Jays? I think we're the four you had in the East. Yeah, give me the four heavyweights. Give me the four heavyweights in the same like in this one, he's got Mets, Phillies, Pirates, Nationals, Like the Pirates are like, no, thank you. We can't compete with those teams.

00:09:52
Speaker 1: That just doesn't sound funny there, I know that.

00:09:54
Speaker 2: I mean Orioles, Red Sox, Yankees, Blue Jays. I can get on board with that. That's basically the Al East. Now you know Ale North is the same pretty much.

00:10:01
Speaker 6: But I don't know, like, let's make make you know what, why don't we do this instead, Jim high high big market small market conference and let the big market play against each other, the small market play against other in the world series.

00:10:15
Speaker 3: Big market wins.

00:10:17
Speaker 5: Yeah. I mean, look, I actually gave that some thought when I was GM in the Cincinnati Reds. I was trying to argue, you know, let me put me in a market with teams that are paying the same amount of payroll that I am. So you know, we can laugh at it, but obviously I think geographically is how we should do it. And to your point, I think you play most of your games in the Eastern Conference and you stay there, and yes, you play one series perhaps one year on the road and the next year on the road against those other teams, but maximize the amount of games that you have in your time zone. I think that's the way to do it.

00:10:56
Speaker 1: Okay, JB.

00:10:58
Speaker 5: One push back.

00:10:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know what you're gonna say, but you mentioned time zones. But if you look, can we pull up that Western Conference graphic again? Okay, so the Midwest Division is on Central time zone. You said, playing your conference in your time zone. The West Division is two time zones behind the only honestly, JB, this only affects two teams, and I said this yesterday. The Astros and the Rangers are the only team that plays two in the division with two time zone difference. The rest of these, like the AL Central, the NL East, all of them are pretty much in the same time zone. So we need to go time zone argument that's where it loses me because if the White Sox got to travel four three times a year to the West Coast, they're losing two time zones back.

00:11:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Cobs, White Sox, those central teams there are going to play a lot of West Coast teams. But there's no perfect solution here.

00:11:48
Speaker 2: That's why I'm that's what we can ask the questions about these things.

00:11:51
Speaker 5: So I'm going to be answer well, and the answer I have the same answer. I mean, we can't make it perfect. It just doesn't work out perfectly. But you do the best you can with the the thirty two teams that you have, and you try to limit the amount of games you have outside of your particular time zones, and you try to hope that you can put the time zones and only one hour difference, you know, closer together rather than having the three hour difference, which is really with a big problem is.

00:12:17
Speaker 1: JB. Some pushback I've seen is about preserving rivalries, and I think there's a good point on one or two of them. Most of them I think would create new rivalries that would be awesome, Okay, and we've seen that already anyway, Like the Astras weren't in the Al West for a billion years, and now we love Astros Rangers and what that brings to the table in the Al West.

00:12:36
Speaker 5: That's my pushback.

00:12:37
Speaker 1: But I will bring up an example that's hot on the West Coast, and your colleague Grant Brisbee actually wrote about this in The Athletic as well. I read last night. He's like, we gotta keep Giants Dodgers together again? Is that just going to be a victim of the system where it's northern California and you need to bunch some of those teams together up there and separate them from the Dodgers.

00:12:59
Speaker 5: Yeah, look, I'm sorry, but yeah, we have to break it up. You know what, I'd rather see Dodger Padres right now. Anyway. I think it's a better rivalry. And I know, growing up and for years it's always been Dodgers Giants, I get it. But we're in twenty twenty five. I actually like, I can't wait till this weekend, right, Dodgers are going to play the Padres at Petco. I think that's a better rivalry than if the Dodgers were playing the Giants. So I mean, yeah, I mean again, we can't make it perfect, But I think geographically I want to see Angels, Dodgers, Padres, Diamondbacks. It just works better with them there where San Francisco works better taking care of Salt Lake City, Colorado, Seattle, et cetera. I think when you break it.

00:13:38
Speaker 4: Down, ultimately this is going to be the commissioner's decision. But the commissioner's the boss of or he works for the owners. Are there owners that have more or less sway? Kind of like the NFL in these types of decisions, because I know they always put out the front Oh, we voted thirty to zero, so we all agree, which we know that's not the case.

00:14:03
Speaker 5: Yeah. Look, there's always been owners that are more influential than others. I mean, that's always been a fact of baseball forever and ever. I mean, as you probably know aj from your Chicago days, Jerry Reinsdorf had as much power and pull with commissioner stealing as anybody did back then. So you know, I think Commissioner Manford understands he works for all thirty owners. There are some, obviously that are more powerful than others and that have more clout, But at the end of the day, you know, he's got to make sure he satisfies three fourths, right, because that's what it takes to make most of these changes or most of these votings. And once they get the three fourths, then, as you know, is everything is unanimous.

00:14:45
Speaker 1: I've got a good one for you. JB. Genuinely curious about this, and I've seen many comments about this. Does a team, ownership wise want to be in a crappy division or do they want to be in a division where they think TV ratings and fans visiting from out of town will pop. I'll give you an example. Baltimore in your situation, moves out of playing against the Yankees, the Red Sox, the Blue Jays, right, and they're playing against teams like DC. Okay, I get that, and I think that can be you know, a rivalry that sparks up with the Nats, Charlotte, Pittsburgh. So I'll give you one more in stephen nesbit scenario, He's got the Braves moving to the National League South with the Marlins, whatever expansion team comes out of the Southeast with with say Nashville or Riley Durham, and then the Race and Braves fans were battling online. Some of them are like, this is the best thing ever. We're gonna have crappier teams.

00:15:44
Speaker 2: Yes, the Braves are like yes.

00:15:45
Speaker 1: And but others were like, does ownership want this publicly traded company? They want to get rid of games against the Mets and the Phillies.

00:15:53
Speaker 5: What do you think? So I'm going to go back in history, and if you remember, we used to have the East and West right, and then we added the Central. And if you remember, back in the day, John Hart was the GM of the Cleveland then called the Indians, and he did a phenomenal job with those Indians teams, getting them to the postseason, signing long term deals, building you know, incredible lineups that had Albert Bell and Kenny Lofton and vis Kel and Bierga and just great, great offensive teams during that time span. The best decision John Hard ever made, and he told me this at the time, the best decision he made in his career as an executive was the decision to push for the Indians to be in the Central and not the East. They wanted to be in these there was a big debate of who was going to go to the East, Toronto or Cleveland. Cleveland fought hard to go to the Central because they knew they had a better chance of winning. They knew if they win the division with the Yankees and the Red Sox and the big markets, it was going to be tough. It was a huge de decision for the organization. How many times have we seen them in the postseason since in which they wouldn't have gotten there had they been in the same division in the East. And I think baseball people would prefer to be in a division where they have the best chance of winning. Sorry, Now, as an owner, I care about the bottom line, so you have to measure if I'm on the East and I'm getting the draw of the Yankee fans and the Red Sox fans, what's the bottom line? But at the end of the day, if you're running a franchise, fans want to win, period. They don't care who you're winning against. They want to win. They want to be in the postseason. They want a chance for the World Series. So I think if I'm sitting there as an owner a GM and you asked me where I want to go, let me be in the same division as the Pittsburgh Pirates, the Rockies, and the Athletics. Thank you very much.

00:17:54
Speaker 3: We'll call that.

00:18:00
Speaker 5: By the way, I wanted to jump that.

00:18:02
Speaker 3: I said.

00:18:06
Speaker 5: I wanted to jump in your earlier conversation before I came on, because you guys were talking about Mookie Bets ninety nine percent. I can guarantee you that meeting took place was about Mooki Betts moving back to right field. I can promise you that Andrew Friedman didn't go down there to check on Mookie Betts's swing. I can promise you that that front office has been watching the defense of Tiu and right field, and they're watching Conford to hit nothing in left field, and they're sitting Andrew's sitting there with only a two game lead, with a team that he's put together going to go. I can't watch his defense anymore. But you certainly can't just move Mooki to right without putting him in there so they can say whatever they want to say, and believe me, I was at GM for sixteen and a half years I did the same thing. I'm going to come out and publicly and protect everybody right because I don't want to put the player on the spot and make it that he didn't want to play right. I get all that, but come on. We all know what that meeting was. You can spin in any way you want it.

00:19:03
Speaker 3: I know we were trying to.

00:19:04
Speaker 2: I was trying to be positive, Okay, j just to give him the benefit of the doubt. Okay, we all know. We just didn't want to sit crest his credit said it. We just didn't want to. Now I want to go to some You said you were a GM for a long time. Did you ever manipulate service time? Because I feel like with Maasaio, with Taba Chandler coming up recently after the forty five day things, they can still be a rookie year, right, Oh and Casey's another one. Does this really happen? And then my next question is they said, Puba Chaydler's going to be the long guy. Why don't you just let him get seven or eight starts in the big league if he's going to be a starter.

00:19:41
Speaker 5: Yeah. So, I mean, I can tell you in my career, and anyone that was with me knows this is that I would never manipulate service time. I love players. I always felt that if a young player is ready to come to the big leagues, he goes to the big leagues. When I drafted Ryan Zimmerman with Washington. I drafted him in JUNI was in the big leagues in September, and I even had my HO manager, Frank Robinson, asked me not to bring him up because he said he couldn't be ready and we shouldn't start the service time. I said, well, we're going to start it because this kid can hit and he can play defense right now in the big league. So I'm one the other way around. Same thing with incentives. If I put incentives at a player contract, I want the player to get all of them because if that happens, then we all win. So that was me, But I will tell you many many small market gms, many owners will absolutely one hundred percent use the system to their advantage. You can call it manipulating, or you can call it running a business, which a lot of them do, which is, yeah, we're not we're going to make sure you're not a super two. We're gonna make sure we get the extra year free agency. Uh, we are going to do everything we can to protect ourselves with service time. And you know there is a lot of times and we saw theo Epstein do it with the Cubs with Bryant, Chris Bryant if you remember, you know, kept him out. Now that went to arbitration, and the arbitrator ruled in favor of the team. It's really hard to prove, but you know what, at theo wan he wanted that extra year of protection and free agency, and he did it. And a lot of teams do that. That's why all of a sudden in June, ooh, why are all these prospects being promoted at the same time. It's because we don't want you to be a Super two. Some guys don't get promoted till April twenty fifth, so we make sure we get that extra year of control. Happens all the time. I wasn't a believer in it because I kind of believe that the CBA was negotiating good faith, which and I think every GM owes it to the players and the fan base to have the best twenty six players on the roster that you can. And you shouldn't hold that against a player if he's good enough and ready to play in the big leagues. And I've always respect the other presidents and gms that handle it the same way because many do.

00:21:50
Speaker 4: JB.

00:21:51
Speaker 3: Victa.

00:21:51
Speaker 4: Roblace threw his bat at the pitcher got a ten game suspension in the heat of the moment. Everybody does things that you know you shouldn't do. That's behind us. How do you deal with the fact that his roster spot is going to take up a team's roster spot and you're in the playoff hunt. You are a team that needs every single guy healthy on the roster.

00:22:19
Speaker 5: Yeah. Look, I hadn't seen anybody do that since Bert Camp and Eiras did it right back in the day. I mean, this is just ugly unacceptable, and you know, I'm surprised it was just ten games. To be honest, I don't think the team should be penalized for what Victor Roebliz did on rehab. I kind of had an issue with that, but it is what it is, and you've got to sit there as an executive and you got to abide by what the rules are. But when Roblaze did you you just can't do that. I'm sorry. Not with the bat.

00:22:50
Speaker 2: He's also part of a team, So this is the way for them to show make him feel sorry, because if he's just suspended for ten days on rehab, he just starts his rehab over in ten days and moves on.

00:23:00
Speaker 3: So it's I get why they did what they did. I think it maybe should have been longer.

00:23:05
Speaker 1: But but you don't lose the spot if you had popped for p D So why for this?

00:23:11
Speaker 3: That's just cb a thing. I can't answer that.

00:23:13
Speaker 1: Right, JB that why is there a difference in punishments.

00:23:17
Speaker 5: Because it's collectively bargained in the p D s. That's the difference.

00:23:22
Speaker 3: Okay, Jim, before you go, I got it out.

00:23:24
Speaker 2: Would you have Bubba Chandler as a bulk guy or would you have him as a starter if he's gonna be a starter of the future.

00:23:29
Speaker 5: Yeah, I wanted to start.

00:23:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, how are they doing that?

00:23:34
Speaker 3: I just don't get that.

00:23:35
Speaker 2: What's the point in the.

00:23:38
Speaker 5: Yeah, this, this kid's going to be a star. That's that fastball is nasty, the sliders well improved. You know, he should have been in the big leagues months ago for me. But you know, I'm a big believer with those starters. Let's start them, and let's pitch him deep into games and let's take care of them, build them up the two hundred things as soon as you can, and go forward. I can't wait to watch him. It's it's gonna be it's gonna be special. He's really talented.

00:24:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm excited. You have pirates, fans need something to cheer for. You've got some special starters, right right, But like at least you've got some young starters that you can get excited about. Can they fix the offense?

00:24:13
Speaker 5: And you're gonna get Jared Jones back next year too, right, So Jones Chaman Deans, that's a pretty good trio. Now go get some offense. Bob Letting go spend some money, but Ben Jerrington spend some money.

00:24:26
Speaker 1: Not that hard, not that one time, one time, one time, and they cleared the key Brian Hayes money. Maybe they'll trade Reynolds in the off season, but one time, if they.

00:24:38
Speaker 2: Trade those guys, then they got to start over.

00:24:41
Speaker 1: Well Hayes wasn't hitting for them, I know, but Brian.

00:24:43
Speaker 2: Reynolds and you gotta start over. That's why I mean, if you're like, oh, they'll trade in the off season, they're not gonna use that money if they get rid of Reynolds contract, They're not gonna take whatever's left seventy million and throw it into another player.

00:24:53
Speaker 3: We know that.

00:24:53
Speaker 2: So I'd rather haven't keep them. At least I know they got a good big league player.

00:24:58
Speaker 1: One part here, JB before you reply, because I have read they did some good articles on like how bub Bob Nutting operates, and it's like it's all about like how how much did the team make this year and doing it to a t Okay, this is how much we'll spend, which is usually nothing. They have not made as much money as they thought this year. So I do agree with aj on that even if they trade Reynolds, are they really going to sign a major free agent?

00:25:19
Speaker 5: No? No, but they don't need to sign a major free agent. But they need to do a better job of at least getting average major league players at every position. You know, you don't have to go out there and get the thirty million dollar year players you can't afford, but you could certainly add more ten million dollars twelve million dollar players and try to get some offense. You've got to at least make an attempt, and they just don't, and they need to. It's embarrassing. And when you have pitching like this, you know, at some point winning matters. You know you're only drawing when schemes pitches. So now you're going to have a good young rotation. Again, you don't have to go spend one hundred million dollars, but for Pete's sake, you got to be a little bit more competitive. And there's a time when you're an owner that it's okay to lose money. Like every team that I was with at certain years would lose money, make it up another year. But during these schemes years, you're not gonna have schemes more than two more years before you have to trade them. You're not because you're not going to give them the four and a million that's going to take to sign them. So that being the case, you have a little bit of a window here, lose a little bit extra money the next couple of years, and then go back to your old ways if that's what you think you have to do. In the meantime, let's hope the next CBA has a floor, a major league floor for salary. Please talking about Oh my gosh, anybody should be talking about the floor, not the cap.

00:26:39
Speaker 1: We already have a soft cap. It's all the luxuries.

00:26:44
Speaker 3: Have a hard floor. Software is no good because a.

00:26:48
Speaker 1: Software is still better than nothing because you have penalized the hard The soft cap penalizes you for spending too much. A software would would penalize you in money for not spending enough. And the cheap people don't want to get charged for not spending enough, so they'll spend more. So if you can't get a hard or get a software, it's better than no floor.

00:27:10
Speaker 4: That's my sales.

00:27:12
Speaker 1: The problem is there's no software without a hard tap blah blah blah. We'll get to that. We got plenty of wins.

00:27:17
Speaker 2: We had a whole year.

00:27:18
Speaker 1: We got plenty of that. But JB, this was good. This was good. You were cooking. The realignment was fun. Thanks for stopping by. Its always be sweatshirt and I love your sweatshirts. Thanks JB.