372 | Why This Podcast Is Unapologetically Child-Centered: The Purpose of the Play Therapy Podcast

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi,

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I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get

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a master class in child-centered play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode,

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we are

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pausing,

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centering ourselves.

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I would like us to spend a little bit of time.

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Going back to

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the why

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and the reason

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for

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What we're doing for this podcast,

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for what I'm all about.

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And let me give you my rationale for

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using this episode for those things.

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We recently saw that in the last few weeks,

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we've had a really big spike in listeners,

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new listeners,

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uptick of upwards of like 400 to 500 new listeners just in the last couple of weeks,

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which I'm thrilled.

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So,

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if you are new and you just found us,

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we're so glad you're here.

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Thank you for hanging out with us.

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And that is really encouraging to me as a podcast host to know that

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there's a hunger for CCPT information and how to work with kids effectively.

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So,

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I know that there's a new surge of listeners,

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and I know that every week there are new listeners.

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And I know that not all of you

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have gone back and started at episode one.

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And if you have not done that,

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I highly recommend that you do.

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Go back and listen in order because

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you need all of the foundational stuff before we get to the current stuff.

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But for those of you that are listening,

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and this is maybe your first episode or your

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first few episodes in these last few weeks,

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I want to

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center and ground what we're doing and why.

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And for those of you that are vets and that listen to me

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every single episode since the infancy of the podcast,

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I know there are those of you that are out there.

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Thank you for that too,

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by the way.

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I think this will be beneficial for you all as well,

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even my vets that have been around the block with me for a while because

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I think we have to talk about what's going on in our field and we have to understand

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what we are about in the midst of the trends and,

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and the common practice that we're seeing.

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So,

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lots to unpack today,

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but I think it's going to be really helpful.

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So

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Eric keeps telling me that everyone thinks I'm just the crazy CCPT lady.

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I was like,

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why do you keep saying that?

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I don't think people think that,

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but

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maybe you do.

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I don't know.

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Uh,

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there are worse things to be called.

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I'll,

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I'll accept the crazy CCPT lady if that's my title.

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I think that

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one of the things that is really.

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Hard for me to swallow,

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and I think that it hurts my heart at,

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if I'm just being honest,

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at a deep level.

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is what is happening right now in the play therapy field.

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And what I'm struggling with more than anything else

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is that I feel like it's just an experiment.

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And let me make sense of that for you.

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When you look back at play therapy origins,

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and that's one of the reasons why I say go back and listen

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from the first episode,

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because you have to know the origins of CCPT.

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You have to know where it came from.

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You have to know what it was intended to do at the early stages

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and why it was developed in the first place.

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So,

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if you go back and you look at the history of play therapy,

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There was only CCPT.

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That was play therapy.

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There,

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there weren't certain

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branches,

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there weren't certain theories.

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It was CCPT was play therapy.

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And then we added some of these

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other

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options.

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And I am all for

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empirically supported

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options.

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If you have data

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and statistics

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and empirical evidence

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that

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the theory works,

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I'm all for it.

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So I,

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I don't have an inherent issue

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with

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it going from only CCPT

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to other options.

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In the field

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But the experiment that I feel is taking place.

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Is

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If we

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integrate a whole bunch of different things,

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that's better,

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and that's a hypothesis,

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by the way.

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Let's go back to the scientific method.

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Just because you think something doesn't mean that it's proven effective.

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So,

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hypotheses are tested.

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And I think what's going on in this experiment.

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is

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that we are hypothesizing

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that eclectic

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and integrative

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is better.

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And I think there's not an ounce of validation for it.

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I think every single play therapist.

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That has been trained integrative,

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that has been trained eclectic,

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that is integrating and combining

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all of these different things into their practice.

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I think they feel like they have no idea what they're doing.

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I know they feel that way.

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Uh,

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people tell me that

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when people decide to go all in CCPT,

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they describe what their former work looked like

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and what their current work looks like.

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And the,

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the words that are used

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are

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frustrated,

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burned out,

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confused,

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doubting,

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so on and so forth.

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The,

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the adjectives are never positive.

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And I think that this experiment is failing.

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And so not only is the experiment failing within the field.

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But we're failing kids.

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Kids should not be guinea pigs

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for an experiment

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that we don't know if it's going to be helpful or not.

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I don't even think that's ethical.

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I don't think it's ethical to do something that you know

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has no empirical support.

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And

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I'm the crazy CCPT lady because number one,

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I think it is the most effective

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approach for working with children.

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There's data supporting that too.

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Meta-analytic outcomes have proven

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that the humanistic models are more effective than non-humanistic models.

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So this isn't Brenna on a soapbox here.

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This is,

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I have empirical support that this works.

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And it's more effective.

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Why would we not choose to do the thing

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that's more effective than something that's less effective?

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Secondly,

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I think that

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when you are all in CCPT,

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you have a framework,

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you have a system.

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You have an idea of what you're supposed to be doing at any given moment.

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And therefore

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you can cling to the model and you can trust the model.

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Even when you're new

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Now,

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are there things to tweak and work on and areas in which we can grow?

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And do we become more

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competent,

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and do we gain more mastery the longer we do it and

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the more that we train and the more that we learn?

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Of course.

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So,

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starting out new doesn't mean that you've mastered CCPT,

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but you can certainly trust the model

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because you know the model works.

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And I think where we're falling apart right now as a field.

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Is the fact that

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to get all of the hours that we need.

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We have to take all of these options,

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and this is not just in the states.

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I have looked at

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other

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play therapy associations around the world,

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and their curriculum

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requires integrative practice.

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It requires eclectic training.

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And this theory that the more you know,

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the better.

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The more you're exposed to,

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the more effective you will be.

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It's such a fallacy.

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There is no way that you can be solidly grounded in a theory

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and know it well enough to be fully adherent to it

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and care about fidelity of the model.

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If you're learning everything under the sun

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and trying to combine everything under the sun,

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you will just end up failing.

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And our kids deserve better than that.

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And for the therapists that have converted.

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So used to be eclectic,

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integrative,

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directive,

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whatever,

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and they are fully CCPT now.

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There is story after story after story

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of the transformations that they've witnessed.

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They have so many testimonies

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of I worked with this kid for 1 year

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and basically saw no progress,

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and within 3 months of CCPT

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it's a complete transformation.

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Why?

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Because we know CCPT works and we know that if we're adherent,

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we're going to see the outcomes.

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Because

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they are part of the model.

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And so,

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what is this podcast all about?

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Well,

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first of all,

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there's not enough solid clinical play therapy training out there.

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So,

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first and foremost,

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it's to give anyone that needs or wants it

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free access

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to a seminal training in working with children

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so that there are

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So that we take over the world.

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That,

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that's honestly what I want.

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I want every single

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person that works with children

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to have access to CCPT

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so that they can fall in love with it and it can capture their soul,

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and they can go all in and that every single kid that ever sees a play therapist

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gets the absolute best.

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That's

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big picture.

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But really,

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it's free access

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to seminal training and content,

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and it's not gate kept,

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it's not

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kept in academia,

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it's not safeguarded,

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and you,

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you know,

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you,

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you can't have access to it unless fill in the blank.

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It's so that every single person that is working with children

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feels ill-equipped,

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feels like they have no idea,

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they have no training.

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Their grad school didn't cover working with kids.

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They're clueless,

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but they have a caseload full of 10 and under,

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00:10:09,070 --> 00:10:11,070
and these are the stories I hear all day every day.

280
00:10:12,780 --> 00:10:14,520
This is what's going on in the field.

281
00:10:14,989 --> 00:10:15,729
And so

282
00:10:15,869 --> 00:10:17,710
if y'all have been around with me at all,

283
00:10:17,789 --> 00:10:20,330
you know that I'm always looking at the why.

284
00:10:20,989 --> 00:10:23,950
And I'm always trying to figure out if there's a better way.

285
00:10:24,820 --> 00:10:27,859
And so this podcast literally is my solution

286
00:10:28,219 --> 00:10:30,320
to all of that that I see that's happening.

287
00:10:30,820 --> 00:10:32,090
But beyond that,

288
00:10:33,929 --> 00:10:36,469
It's to help clinicians understand

289
00:10:36,630 --> 00:10:38,119
that this experiment

290
00:10:38,409 --> 00:10:40,750
of integrative eclectic play therapy

291
00:10:41,049 --> 00:10:42,270
is not the path.

292
00:10:43,669 --> 00:10:44,169
And

293
00:10:44,349 --> 00:10:45,750
if you are listening to this,

294
00:10:45,830 --> 00:10:47,580
I think that you at least have some

295
00:10:48,429 --> 00:10:49,809
pull or draw

296
00:10:49,989 --> 00:10:50,950
towards CCPT

297
00:10:51,190 --> 00:10:52,780
and maybe that means at your core,

298
00:10:52,789 --> 00:10:53,630
theoretically,

299
00:10:53,869 --> 00:10:55,190
you are person-centered.

300
00:10:56,059 --> 00:10:56,260
You know,

301
00:10:56,340 --> 00:10:59,130
if you were to take a theoretical orientation assessment,

302
00:10:59,419 --> 00:11:02,770
you might end up on the Rogerian side of the test.

303
00:11:02,979 --> 00:11:05,260
If you feel drawn towards CCPT,

304
00:11:05,340 --> 00:11:06,140
that is likely.

305
00:11:07,130 --> 00:11:08,299
But maybe you are like,

306
00:11:08,380 --> 00:11:10,090
I don't really know if CCPT is for me.

307
00:11:10,159 --> 00:11:10,340
I mean,

308
00:11:10,419 --> 00:11:11,739
I kind of like Adlerian.

309
00:11:11,809 --> 00:11:12,900
I kind of like Jungian,

310
00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:13,960
I kind of like whatever.

311
00:11:15,479 --> 00:11:17,460
I just want clinicians

312
00:11:17,710 --> 00:11:18,280
to say,

313
00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:19,780
I know who I am.

314
00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:22,109
I'm trying to be congruent,

315
00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:26,049
and I'm going to be fully adherent and faithful to a model

316
00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:29,080
because the second we change a model.

317
00:11:30,359 --> 00:11:33,010
Theoretical models have been tested and proven.

318
00:11:34,090 --> 00:11:37,239
If we add anything or if we take anything away.

319
00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:40,380
We no longer have any

320
00:11:40,630 --> 00:11:41,539
guarantee

321
00:11:41,919 --> 00:11:43,520
that what we're doing is going to work.

322
00:11:45,340 --> 00:11:47,130
I don't think that's ethical practice.

323
00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:50,229
To take over a theory

324
00:11:50,609 --> 00:11:53,270
that we didn't come up with and that has

325
00:11:53,530 --> 00:11:55,700
statistical proof behind it

326
00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:56,590
and say,

327
00:11:56,770 --> 00:11:57,000
well,

328
00:11:57,099 --> 00:11:57,809
yes,

329
00:11:58,090 --> 00:11:58,770
but

330
00:11:59,130 --> 00:12:00,510
I'm going to sprinkle this in.

331
00:12:00,750 --> 00:12:00,890
Well,

332
00:12:01,010 --> 00:12:01,250
yes,

333
00:12:01,369 --> 00:12:02,909
but I'm not going to do that.

334
00:12:03,239 --> 00:12:03,440
Well,

335
00:12:03,530 --> 00:12:05,280
I think it would be better if

336
00:12:06,820 --> 00:12:06,979
Look,

337
00:12:07,020 --> 00:12:09,299
if you want to create your own play therapy theory,

338
00:12:09,539 --> 00:12:12,919
if you want to be a theorist and you want your name to be

339
00:12:13,340 --> 00:12:14,049
along the,

340
00:12:14,140 --> 00:12:14,719
the same

341
00:12:15,260 --> 00:12:15,840
list

342
00:12:16,419 --> 00:12:19,760
as Rogers and Jung and Adler and Gestalt and all those,

343
00:12:20,090 --> 00:12:24,559
absolutely create a theory and prove it and introduce it into the world.

344
00:12:25,500 --> 00:12:27,599
I'm also wholly supportive of that.

345
00:12:28,659 --> 00:12:30,929
But if that's not what you feel called to do,

346
00:12:30,940 --> 00:12:33,000
and if you don't feel like that's your

347
00:12:33,299 --> 00:12:34,520
purpose on this earth,

348
00:12:35,469 --> 00:12:37,190
Then you need to be adherent.

349
00:12:37,969 --> 00:12:41,400
To the models that exist because that's how we know that they work.

350
00:12:43,190 --> 00:12:44,969
And CCPT works

351
00:12:45,270 --> 00:12:46,530
and CCPT.

352
00:12:47,489 --> 00:12:48,739
Brings you in

353
00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,099
and it makes you a better person.

354
00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:53,299
It makes you a better clinician.

355
00:12:53,719 --> 00:12:56,340
It makes you a better everything.

356
00:12:57,659 --> 00:13:00,979
Because we self-actualize while our kids self-actualize.

357
00:13:01,929 --> 00:13:02,320
So,

358
00:13:02,330 --> 00:13:03,510
there's some added bonus,

359
00:13:03,570 --> 00:13:04,669
cherry on top

360
00:13:05,130 --> 00:13:06,609
to being all in CCPT.

361
00:13:07,690 --> 00:13:11,099
But my concern is that we are losing sight

362
00:13:11,369 --> 00:13:13,989
of what we're supposed to be doing as clinicians.

363
00:13:15,020 --> 00:13:16,880
We are supposed to find

364
00:13:17,260 --> 00:13:18,799
our orientation

365
00:13:19,260 --> 00:13:21,700
and we are supposed to follow theory.

366
00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:22,450
Because

367
00:13:22,799 --> 00:13:25,539
that's the only way that we guarantee outcomes.

368
00:13:26,789 --> 00:13:28,700
And so this podcast exists,

369
00:13:28,799 --> 00:13:30,400
this community exists.

370
00:13:31,059 --> 00:13:31,250
And,

371
00:13:31,260 --> 00:13:31,500
you know,

372
00:13:31,580 --> 00:13:31,700
in,

373
00:13:31,780 --> 00:13:32,979
in the broader reach,

374
00:13:33,340 --> 00:13:36,419
the online community and the coaching programs and all of that,

375
00:13:36,539 --> 00:13:39,119
those are extensions of this original purpose,

376
00:13:39,900 --> 00:13:40,700
which is,

377
00:13:41,020 --> 00:13:43,760
if you know CCPT is it for you.

378
00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:46,359
You're going to go all in

379
00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:48,460
and you're going to do everything you can

380
00:13:48,719 --> 00:13:51,299
to be as adherent and faithful to the model as possible.

381
00:13:52,239 --> 00:13:55,140
Because that's how you feel satisfied in your work.

382
00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,669
That's how you can sustain this work.

383
00:13:57,919 --> 00:13:59,669
That's how you don't get burned out.

384
00:13:59,960 --> 00:14:01,979
That's how you feel inspired every day.

385
00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:04,419
I get emails all the time

386
00:14:04,919 --> 00:14:05,739
from people

387
00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,119
that are all in CCPT.

388
00:14:09,289 --> 00:14:10,409
And they email me and they say,

389
00:14:10,450 --> 00:14:11,750
I just want to thank you

390
00:14:12,340 --> 00:14:12,950
because

391
00:14:13,289 --> 00:14:15,989
I am energized every day when I go to work now.

392
00:14:16,489 --> 00:14:20,109
I feel so confident and competent every day when I go to work now.

393
00:14:20,309 --> 00:14:22,890
I'm seeing the change in my kids.

394
00:14:23,099 --> 00:14:27,349
I'm watching parents marvel at the transformations that are taking place.

395
00:14:27,770 --> 00:14:29,169
That is so rewarding.

396
00:14:29,250 --> 00:14:30,510
It is so significant.

397
00:14:30,570 --> 00:14:31,950
It is so meaningful.

398
00:14:32,409 --> 00:14:32,700
And

399
00:14:32,890 --> 00:14:36,590
it's because I am wholly CCPT and I've never had that before.

400
00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:39,419
That should be all of our stories.

401
00:14:40,210 --> 00:14:41,359
Every single one of us

402
00:14:41,940 --> 00:14:42,900
should have a theory,

403
00:14:43,179 --> 00:14:43,940
stick to it,

404
00:14:44,099 --> 00:14:44,729
and say,

405
00:14:44,940 --> 00:14:45,679
wow,

406
00:14:46,059 --> 00:14:47,559
this theory does work,

407
00:14:48,140 --> 00:14:50,559
and we just stay in the lane

408
00:14:51,179 --> 00:14:54,200
and don't deviate from what we should and shouldn't be doing

409
00:14:54,489 --> 00:14:55,659
according to the theory.

410
00:14:56,780 --> 00:14:57,299
So,

411
00:14:57,859 --> 00:15:01,320
I hope that that gives you kind of a reminder if you've been around with me for a while.

412
00:15:01,380 --> 00:15:05,159
I hope that that gives you a sense of what we're all about here if you're new.

413
00:15:05,780 --> 00:15:06,479
And

414
00:15:07,020 --> 00:15:08,299
at the end of the day,

415
00:15:08,950 --> 00:15:09,109
You know,

416
00:15:09,190 --> 00:15:11,450
I talked about this at the conference a couple of weekends ago.

417
00:15:11,830 --> 00:15:12,979
At the end of the day,

418
00:15:13,390 --> 00:15:15,239
my heart breaks for kids.

419
00:15:16,650 --> 00:15:17,359
All day,

420
00:15:17,369 --> 00:15:18,270
every day,

421
00:15:18,729 --> 00:15:18,969
my,

422
00:15:19,090 --> 00:15:21,309
my very heart beats

423
00:15:22,130 --> 00:15:23,150
for kids

424
00:15:23,650 --> 00:15:24,190
to

425
00:15:24,450 --> 00:15:26,190
be given the things that they need

426
00:15:26,369 --> 00:15:28,650
to be treated the way that they deserve to be treated.

427
00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,539
To have the opportunities and the experiences

428
00:15:32,919 --> 00:15:34,219
and the relationships

429
00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:35,440
and the engagement

430
00:15:35,719 --> 00:15:36,729
that they deserve.

431
00:15:38,070 --> 00:15:39,369
And that's

432
00:15:39,750 --> 00:15:41,409
very infrequently the case.

433
00:15:42,349 --> 00:15:44,979
And CCPT is the antidote to all of that.

434
00:15:45,890 --> 00:15:47,869
There is nothing like

435
00:15:48,409 --> 00:15:50,219
the relationship and the environment.

436
00:15:51,530 --> 00:15:52,070
That

437
00:15:52,369 --> 00:15:54,969
a child gets to experience in CCPT.

438
00:15:55,369 --> 00:15:56,929
There's nothing like it in the world.

439
00:15:57,590 --> 00:15:59,229
And what a gift that is to the child,

440
00:15:59,349 --> 00:16:00,729
what a gift that is to us.

441
00:16:01,729 --> 00:16:03,510
And that's my heartbeat.

442
00:16:04,130 --> 00:16:04,710
I,

443
00:16:04,929 --> 00:16:05,010
I,

444
00:16:05,090 --> 00:16:07,390
I think I want a lot of things written on my headstone.

445
00:16:07,690 --> 00:16:10,989
I would love to have a lot of things synonymous with Brenna Hicks.

446
00:16:12,039 --> 00:16:12,609
But

447
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:14,700
on that list at the top.

448
00:16:16,340 --> 00:16:17,359
Unequivocally.

449
00:16:18,070 --> 00:16:18,419
I

450
00:16:19,750 --> 00:16:22,330
The importance and the significance

451
00:16:22,489 --> 00:16:23,460
of children

452
00:16:23,719 --> 00:16:24,969
and their goodness

453
00:16:25,250 --> 00:16:25,849
and their

454
00:16:26,590 --> 00:16:27,809
possibility

455
00:16:28,349 --> 00:16:28,929
and

456
00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:32,109
Who they are as beings,

457
00:16:32,489 --> 00:16:34,169
how incredible they are.

458
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:34,919
That,

459
00:16:34,929 --> 00:16:35,780
that is,

460
00:16:35,789 --> 00:16:40,190
that that's what I want to be known for is the person that saw kids

461
00:16:40,969 --> 00:16:43,710
for the incredible beings that they are.

462
00:16:44,210 --> 00:16:45,789
And CCPT does that.

463
00:16:45,969 --> 00:16:46,909
It respects them.

464
00:16:46,969 --> 00:16:47,770
It honors them.

465
00:16:47,809 --> 00:16:48,809
It understands them.

466
00:16:48,849 --> 00:16:49,890
It sees them.

467
00:16:51,229 --> 00:16:51,809
And

468
00:16:52,190 --> 00:16:56,890
that is what I think is missing in this play therapy experiment that we have going on.

469
00:16:57,789 --> 00:16:58,059
We're,

470
00:16:58,140 --> 00:17:00,080
we're totally losing sight of the child

471
00:17:00,820 --> 00:17:02,280
because we're so focused on,

472
00:17:02,539 --> 00:17:04,319
maybe we'll do this and maybe we'll add this in,

473
00:17:04,329 --> 00:17:05,420
and we'll throw in this worksheet,

474
00:17:05,430 --> 00:17:06,439
and then we'll do this activity,

475
00:17:06,540 --> 00:17:08,079
and then we'll have mom come in the room,

476
00:17:08,219 --> 00:17:10,560
and then we'll talk to the teacher and the teacher's going to do this.

477
00:17:11,140 --> 00:17:11,260
Like,

478
00:17:11,319 --> 00:17:12,180
what are we doing?

479
00:17:12,300 --> 00:17:13,760
We're losing sight of the child

480
00:17:14,260 --> 00:17:16,140
in the midst of all of this nonsense,

481
00:17:16,250 --> 00:17:17,060
as I see it.

482
00:17:18,719 --> 00:17:22,930
If you want to truly help kids and you want to truly value them.

483
00:17:23,939 --> 00:17:25,400
You go all in,

484
00:17:25,770 --> 00:17:29,140
ideally on CCPT because we know how effective it is.

485
00:17:30,540 --> 00:17:31,359
And you say,

486
00:17:31,819 --> 00:17:33,089
this is what I'm about.

487
00:17:33,300 --> 00:17:35,500
This is the only thing I will be about.

488
00:17:36,020 --> 00:17:37,560
And I'm so proud

489
00:17:38,099 --> 00:17:39,579
to have CCPT

490
00:17:40,020 --> 00:17:40,319
as

491
00:17:40,540 --> 00:17:41,060
what I am.

492
00:17:41,140 --> 00:17:44,250
And maybe we all become the crazy CCPT people,

493
00:17:44,579 --> 00:17:44,910
you know,

494
00:17:45,140 --> 00:17:46,359
that can be our,

495
00:17:46,369 --> 00:17:47,660
our universal title.

496
00:17:47,729 --> 00:17:49,959
We're all those crazy CCPT people.

497
00:17:50,459 --> 00:17:51,260
Oh my word.

498
00:17:51,459 --> 00:17:51,880
All right,

499
00:17:51,939 --> 00:17:52,579
I love y'all.

500
00:17:52,660 --> 00:17:53,939
I hope that encourages you.

501
00:17:54,030 --> 00:17:55,979
I hope that that gave you something to think about,

502
00:17:56,060 --> 00:17:56,780
if nothing else.

503
00:17:56,890 --> 00:17:57,540
And like I said,

504
00:17:57,609 --> 00:17:58,199
if you're new,

505
00:17:58,949 --> 00:18:01,030
And you kind of just stumbled upon this podcast,

506
00:18:01,150 --> 00:18:02,770
maybe someone referred you to it or

507
00:18:03,109 --> 00:18:05,810
you searched something and it came up on your playlist or whatever.

508
00:18:06,699 --> 00:18:08,660
Please know that that's really,

509
00:18:08,910 --> 00:18:09,030
that,

510
00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:10,109
that's what we're all about.

511
00:18:10,349 --> 00:18:13,810
The Play Therapy Podcast is CCPT all in,

512
00:18:14,310 --> 00:18:17,349
and I encourage you to consider if that's the right fit

513
00:18:17,349 --> 00:18:19,890
for you because I don't think you will ever regret it.

514
00:18:20,030 --> 00:18:20,189
I,

515
00:18:20,270 --> 00:18:21,699
I've never had someone say,

516
00:18:21,930 --> 00:18:22,069
man,

517
00:18:22,150 --> 00:18:24,150
I wish I would have never become CCPT.

518
00:18:25,150 --> 00:18:25,430
And,

519
00:18:25,510 --> 00:18:27,699
and so I hope that that will be true for you as well.

520
00:18:27,949 --> 00:18:30,109
Reach out to me if you have thoughts or comments or questions.

521
00:18:30,170 --> 00:18:31,069
I'd love to hear from you,

522
00:18:31,189 --> 00:18:33,109
brenna@thekidcounselor.com.

523
00:18:33,469 --> 00:18:34,430
I hope y'all have a great week.

524
00:18:34,540 --> 00:18:35,390
Thanks for hanging out with me.

525
00:18:35,469 --> 00:18:36,390
We'll talk again soon.

526
00:18:36,609 --> 00:18:36,869
Bye.

527
00:18:37,939 --> 00:18:41,739
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.

528
00:18:41,989 --> 00:18:43,900
For more episodes and resources,

529
00:18:44,069 --> 00:18:48,829
please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.