Episode 166: Redefining Farming Through Health, Taste, and Technology with Martin Crompton

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Hi friends, welcome back to the

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Regenerative Agriculture

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Podcast.

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This is Jon Kempf and today I'm

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here with someone who is very

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passionate about what

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regenerative agriculture can

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mean from a market opportunity

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perspective and what it can mean

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for customers, what it should

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mean for customers and how

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we can,

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the different pathways by which

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we can drive adoption of

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regenerative agriculture coming

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from a demand perspective rather

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than from a push perspective.

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But this has been a fascinating

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conversation, one that I've

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had a differing opinion and

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differing points of view on at

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various times.

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So we're going to have a fun

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conversation, perhaps some

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debate or not. We'll see where

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we align or where we don't.

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So my guest for this episode is

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Martin Crompton from Union Grove

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Farm and from various other

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endeavors.

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I'm not sure what all you're up

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to, Martin. I guess I'll let you

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tell us which cookies you have

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your fingers in at the moment.

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Welcome.

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Thanks for being here.

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Tell us a bit about your story

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in the context.

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Certainly.

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Absolute pleasure always to

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connect with you, John.

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I regard you as a good friend

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and a mentor now, and I feel

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very honored to have been

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invited onto the podcast today,

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which has been such an

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incredible learning resource for

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myself over the years that I've

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been involved in regenerative

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agriculture that I'd like to

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thank you for.

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As far as myself,

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I'm one of these people who've

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come into not just regenerative

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agriculture latterly, but

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agriculture and farming as a

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whole. About eight years ago, I

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had very little connection with

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it,

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direct,

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other than earning my bread and

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butter, as we say in England.

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which is where I'm originally

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from.

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Anybody's wondering why I'm

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North Carolinian farmer with

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this particular cute curious

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accent.

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I started off my work career

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in food but working for the

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major corporates and some of the

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big global companies.

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And the interesting dynamic with

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that, even though I worked my

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way up to the leadership level

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within some of these major

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corporations is that I never got

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to visit a farm or meet a

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farmer, we visited a lot of

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manufacturing plants, I got to

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see a lot of stainless steel and

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production lines, but farms and

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farmers,

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which is never even in part of

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our conversation.

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Interestingly enough, so full

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circle several

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Can you give us some context,

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Martin, for what was the scale

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and the size of the

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multinational corporates that

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you were working for?

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Were we talking in the top half

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dozen, the top 20?

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I'd put them in the top 20.

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So in the billions,

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it was one of them, hundreds of

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millions, a couple of others

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that I worked for, and several

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that were at national level as

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well.

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And what was the scope of your

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experience?

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Well, I would cut my teeth on it

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with sales and then it turned

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into business development.

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I don't like using the term

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sales. Sales always to me

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strikes somebody who's trying to

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sell you shoes or double

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glazing. If you really want to

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develop your business, then you

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need to have an understanding of

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what business development is

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about.

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And that ties clearly into

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marketing.

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So that's where the first 15, 20

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years of my career were very

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much involved in building out

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business development and the

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marketing side of things in

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order to optimize.

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whichever company or corporation

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I was working for.

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The type of food companies I was

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working with were fundamentally

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looking to sell their wares

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through CPG, we call it FMCG in

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the UK,

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into the major food retailers.

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And so people not familiar with

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that terminology, what is CPG or

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FMCG?

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Fast moving consumer goods.

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Basically, it's anything that

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you can buy in the packaging.

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If you go into a food retailer,

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you automatically walk into the

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fresh produce aisle,

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everything to the rest of the

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store. which is usually anything

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between two thirds and three

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quarters of that store,

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is bought in a package.

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A lot of that food is ultra

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-processed, as we know.

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It's come to the fore recently

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with all the Maha reports that's

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just been released, is that 70 %

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of the food that most people eat

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is ultra -processed and not

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exactly highly nutritious and

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good for us.

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Where we're working towards now

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within the regenerative movement

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is to start to provide very good

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tasting, but very high nutrient

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and phytonutrient healthy foods.

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So you can still get very

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healthy foods within that CPG

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category, consumer product

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goods,

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but fresh produce is where my

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focus has morphed to over the

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years since I moved out of that

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line of work.

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Yeah, so you and I have had this

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conversation going back and

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forth.

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I've had the perspective

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that I

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don't have a lot of evidence of

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positive consumer demand driving

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significant market change.

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And there are two key qualifiers

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in that statement, one of them

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being

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positive demand as compared to

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negative demand.

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I mean, if there's negative

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demand, if there's a salmonella

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outbreak in spinach or whatever,

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then the spinach market responds

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in a very dramatic fashion.

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So there are multiple instances

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of negative demand having had a

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significant impact.

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But when you look at positive

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demand, a desire for improved

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quality or improved flavor,

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There certainly are

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changes,

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but those changes from where I

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sit have appeared to be

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incremental. They've appeared to

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be small, where we have,

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look, after 30 years or 40 years

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now, whatever the number is, you

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have organically certified foods

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that are,

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at best, 10 % of the

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marketplace.

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And that is just one example.

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There's many other examples.

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So

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there hasn't been a dramatic

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change. But when we look at the

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proliferation of non -GMO

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verification that's now being

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applied to all kinds of products

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that don't even have a GMO

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counterpart and natural, there

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certainly is a shift towards

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soft labeling

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to create the perception of

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improved quality.

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I'm uncertain how much

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significance and benefit that

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has actually had to the farming

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community at this point.

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You have a difference.

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And my perspective has been that

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I haven't seen much positive

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demand actually moving the

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needle in a measurable,

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beneficial way for most growers.

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But you have a very different

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perspective around that.

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I'd like to understand what that

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is and why.

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It's basically tapping into the

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general zeitgeist out there.

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By that I mean the thought

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process, the demand that

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individuals have these days to

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want to be healthier, more

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vibrant and alive.

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And a big part of that people

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are realizing more and more is

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the quality of the food that you

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can afford to purchase.

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You referenced organics.

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That as you're quite rightly,

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depending on which research you

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read, it could be anything from

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7 to 10%. In total,

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in fresh produce, that goes up

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significantly to 15%.

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Because people are more directly

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connected into the foods that

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they're buying with fresh

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produce.

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But it's still a relatively

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small comparative size of the

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market, but it's in growth.

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And the reason why it's been in

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growth is because more and more

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people are seeking healthier,

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cleaner,

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alternatives and buy cleaner.

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I mean,

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the less synthetic chemicals.

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I'm not anti -conventional

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farming.

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I'm a regenerative farmer

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currently.

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I work for an organization

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called Union Grove Farm.

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They're a table grape

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regenerative table grape

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vineyard operation.

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And we're looking at approaching

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the market from a fresh produce

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perspective and a CPG, a package

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perspective through freeze

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drying.

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The visionary leader of that is

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a gentleman called Greg Boland.

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He's come into this again, not

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as a traditional farmer over the

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last decades, but he's come full

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circle.

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He's a VC.

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So his magic sauce over the

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years has been picking winners.

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And what Greg saw several years

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ago, getting on for 10 years

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ago, was the opportunity to

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almost bet the farm, as he calls

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it. It's a VC coming in back

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into the farming world, but

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00:08:21,759 --> 00:08:23,180
doing it in a way that takes

294
00:08:23,180 --> 00:08:24,240
advantage of

295
00:08:24,759 --> 00:08:26,120
the marketing, the business

296
00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:27,699
development, the AI, the ag

297
00:08:27,699 --> 00:08:28,860
tech, which I know we're going

298
00:08:28,860 --> 00:08:30,819
to be speaking about today, and

299
00:08:30,819 --> 00:08:32,919
look at how we can tap into that

300
00:08:32,919 --> 00:08:34,399
zeitgeist, tap into that

301
00:08:34,399 --> 00:08:35,419
consumer demand.

302
00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:37,480
It's what I call, or I've been

303
00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:38,460
saying this a lot recently

304
00:08:38,460 --> 00:08:39,419
within the regenerative

305
00:08:39,419 --> 00:08:40,820
movement, the difference between

306
00:08:40,820 --> 00:08:42,740
a push strategy, which puts all

307
00:08:42,740 --> 00:08:44,419
the responsibility on the farmer

308
00:08:44,419 --> 00:08:46,399
to transition, this is from a

309
00:08:46,399 --> 00:08:47,700
regenerative perspective,

310
00:08:48,039 --> 00:08:50,319
and creates the pull strategy.

311
00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:51,399
What's the pull strategy?

312
00:08:51,519 --> 00:08:52,379
It's consumer demand.

313
00:08:52,730 --> 00:08:55,330
So, what might surprise people

314
00:08:55,330 --> 00:08:57,730
is that the one, two, and three

315
00:08:57,730 --> 00:08:59,210
drivers of your purchase

316
00:08:59,210 --> 00:09:00,730
decisions when you walk into,

317
00:09:00,930 --> 00:09:02,009
certainly, a retailer,

318
00:09:02,409 --> 00:09:04,490
a food retailer, or shop online,

319
00:09:05,409 --> 00:09:06,649
those three key driving

320
00:09:06,649 --> 00:09:09,009
decisions for your purchases are

321
00:09:09,009 --> 00:09:10,430
not price, number one, it's

322
00:09:10,430 --> 00:09:11,970
taste. People are looking for

323
00:09:11,970 --> 00:09:13,250
something which tastes good.

324
00:09:13,389 --> 00:09:14,610
Number two, it's price.

325
00:09:14,950 --> 00:09:16,629
And number three, it's health.

326
00:09:17,389 --> 00:09:19,970
Now, if you look at the organic,

327
00:09:20,409 --> 00:09:22,549
part segment of that market or

328
00:09:22,549 --> 00:09:23,769
the regenerative segment,

329
00:09:24,049 --> 00:09:26,789
suddenly price isn't the second

330
00:09:26,789 --> 00:09:28,549
one, that drops down.

331
00:09:28,850 --> 00:09:30,710
It's taste and health.

332
00:09:31,470 --> 00:09:32,889
So if you've got consumers out

333
00:09:32,889 --> 00:09:34,049
there, and we're talking about a

334
00:09:34,049 --> 00:09:35,509
significant slug of consumers,

335
00:09:35,669 --> 00:09:37,750
15 % to 20 % and growing

336
00:09:37,750 --> 00:09:38,629
significantly,

337
00:09:39,629 --> 00:09:41,279
who are looking for the best

338
00:09:41,279 --> 00:09:42,559
tasting and the healthiest

339
00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:43,359
foods,

340
00:09:43,620 --> 00:09:45,600
that's where regenerative comes

341
00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:47,059
in. If you want to optimally

342
00:09:47,059 --> 00:09:47,859
deliver that,

343
00:09:48,889 --> 00:09:50,429
As far as food is concerned,

344
00:09:50,850 --> 00:09:52,590
you need to be fresh produce,

345
00:09:52,970 --> 00:09:53,950
needs to be regeneratively

346
00:09:53,950 --> 00:09:55,049
grown, putting, as you know

347
00:09:55,049 --> 00:09:55,929
better than anyone on the

348
00:09:55,929 --> 00:09:57,129
planet, putting the health and

349
00:09:57,129 --> 00:09:58,950
the vitality, the bioactivity

350
00:09:58,950 --> 00:10:00,370
back into the soil,

351
00:10:00,789 --> 00:10:02,250
turning that dead dirt,

352
00:10:02,570 --> 00:10:03,850
lead as I call it, into

353
00:10:03,850 --> 00:10:06,710
bioactive, life -giving gold

354
00:10:06,710 --> 00:10:07,509
soil.

355
00:10:07,590 --> 00:10:09,350
From that, you can grow plants,

356
00:10:09,389 --> 00:10:10,649
which are super healthy, they

357
00:10:10,649 --> 00:10:11,710
take care of their own immunity

358
00:10:11,710 --> 00:10:13,309
needs, and then from there, the

359
00:10:13,309 --> 00:10:14,570
fruit, the vegetables that they

360
00:10:14,830 --> 00:10:16,909
produce or if the livestock's

361
00:10:16,909 --> 00:10:18,850
grazing on regenerative or

362
00:10:18,850 --> 00:10:21,309
organic matter then you've got

363
00:10:21,309 --> 00:10:22,470
the healthiest most vibrant

364
00:10:22,470 --> 00:10:23,269
foods.

365
00:10:23,490 --> 00:10:24,889
That creates the opportunity

366
00:10:24,889 --> 00:10:26,049
that we tap into.

367
00:10:26,570 --> 00:10:27,929
We don't have to create that

368
00:10:27,929 --> 00:10:29,750
demand. We have to tap into it.

369
00:10:29,850 --> 00:10:31,190
How do we do that by

370
00:10:31,190 --> 00:10:32,690
communicating with those

371
00:10:32,690 --> 00:10:33,490
consumers.

372
00:10:34,029 --> 00:10:35,620
And by communicating with the

373
00:10:35,620 --> 00:10:36,759
people who buy the food and

374
00:10:36,759 --> 00:10:38,500
we're looking for what we can

375
00:10:38,500 --> 00:10:39,299
offer them.

376
00:10:39,399 --> 00:10:40,419
And again, fresh produce,

377
00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:41,960
conventional, organic or

378
00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:43,879
regenerative can deliver that if

379
00:10:43,879 --> 00:10:45,080
you want to. Optimally, it's a

380
00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:46,220
regenerative way of doing it.

381
00:10:46,279 --> 00:10:48,379
We have to create the story, the

382
00:10:48,379 --> 00:10:50,180
narrative that will attract them

383
00:10:50,180 --> 00:10:50,980
in.

384
00:10:50,819 --> 00:10:52,819
It's part education, it's part

385
00:10:52,819 --> 00:10:55,539
storytelling and opening them to

386
00:10:55,539 --> 00:10:57,340
what this is really about and

387
00:10:57,340 --> 00:10:58,480
how it benefits them.

388
00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:00,500
That then creates a pull, a

389
00:11:00,500 --> 00:11:01,299
demand.

390
00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:02,940
And what I've learned over my

391
00:11:02,940 --> 00:11:04,409
many years in business is is

392
00:11:04,409 --> 00:11:05,950
nature abhors a vacuum.

393
00:11:06,289 --> 00:11:07,830
So if there's more demand than

394
00:11:07,830 --> 00:11:08,629
supply,

395
00:11:08,870 --> 00:11:10,590
supply will rise up to drive

396
00:11:10,590 --> 00:11:11,690
that, in which case that will

397
00:11:11,690 --> 00:11:13,009
drive the regenerative movement

398
00:11:13,009 --> 00:11:13,809
still further.

399
00:11:14,569 --> 00:11:16,149
Okay, you just preempted two of

400
00:11:16,149 --> 00:11:17,149
the questions that were in my

401
00:11:17,149 --> 00:11:18,269
head with the next two questions

402
00:11:18,269 --> 00:11:19,409
that I was going to ask you.

403
00:11:19,490 --> 00:11:20,830
And that is when you speak

404
00:11:20,830 --> 00:11:21,629
about,

405
00:11:22,330 --> 00:11:23,470
the first one is when you speak

406
00:11:23,470 --> 00:11:25,930
about developing a push versus a

407
00:11:25,930 --> 00:11:26,730
pull strategy

408
00:11:27,259 --> 00:11:29,519
and tapping into that demand.

409
00:11:31,259 --> 00:11:33,200
The landscape from where I sit,

410
00:11:33,279 --> 00:11:34,419
what I see happening is there

411
00:11:34,419 --> 00:11:35,219
are many,

412
00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:36,519
farmers who,

413
00:11:36,940 --> 00:11:38,000
I mean, look, the reality is

414
00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:38,919
from a macroeconomic

415
00:11:38,919 --> 00:11:39,719
perspective,

416
00:11:40,019 --> 00:11:41,240
many growers are in a very

417
00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:42,419
difficult spot right now.

418
00:11:42,500 --> 00:11:43,360
The majority are.

419
00:11:43,740 --> 00:11:45,580
There are many that would desire

420
00:11:45,580 --> 00:11:48,919
to tap into a demand for a

421
00:11:48,919 --> 00:11:50,240
higher quality product and to be

422
00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:51,200
compensated accordingly.

423
00:11:52,429 --> 00:11:53,229
And

424
00:11:52,899 --> 00:11:53,740
so

425
00:11:54,110 --> 00:11:55,950
there is how

426
00:11:56,330 --> 00:11:57,129
exactly

427
00:11:57,710 --> 00:11:59,070
Do you tap into demand?

428
00:11:59,289 --> 00:12:00,809
Is there significant existing

429
00:12:00,809 --> 00:12:03,250
demand from your perspective for

430
00:12:03,250 --> 00:12:04,490
regionally grown or higher

431
00:12:04,490 --> 00:12:05,289
quality

432
00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,139
products? And what does, when

433
00:12:07,139 --> 00:12:09,539
you look at creating a pull

434
00:12:09,539 --> 00:12:11,399
strategy versus a push strategy

435
00:12:11,399 --> 00:12:12,539
of putting the responsibility on

436
00:12:12,539 --> 00:12:13,940
the farmers, what exactly does

437
00:12:13,940 --> 00:12:15,159
that look like from a practical

438
00:12:15,159 --> 00:12:15,959
perspective?

439
00:12:18,860 --> 00:12:19,659
So,

440
00:12:19,500 --> 00:12:21,360
we're living in an age at the

441
00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:22,980
moment where things like

442
00:12:22,980 --> 00:12:24,200
regenerative agriculture have

443
00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:25,000
come to the fore.

444
00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:26,259
Organic's been around for

445
00:12:26,259 --> 00:12:28,320
decades. I've been an organic

446
00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,860
food consumer for 25 years.

447
00:12:31,279 --> 00:12:32,779
What I didn't realize that

448
00:12:32,779 --> 00:12:34,720
organic... Organic's basically

449
00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:36,319
based off thou shalt not, so

450
00:12:36,319 --> 00:12:38,480
it's looking to avoid spraying

451
00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,080
synthetic chemicals onto foods.

452
00:12:41,830 --> 00:12:43,470
or minimizing, mitigating, and

453
00:12:43,470 --> 00:12:44,309
then eradicating.

454
00:12:44,930 --> 00:12:47,009
What I didn't realize was that

455
00:12:47,009 --> 00:12:48,809
unless we are also working on

456
00:12:48,809 --> 00:12:50,169
the soil, and a lot of organic

457
00:12:50,169 --> 00:12:51,029
farmers do,

458
00:12:51,789 --> 00:12:53,590
some don't, because of the

459
00:12:53,590 --> 00:12:55,350
practices that are out there, is

460
00:12:55,350 --> 00:12:57,269
that we're not releasing the

461
00:12:57,269 --> 00:12:58,809
nutrients or the phytonutrients

462
00:12:58,809 --> 00:13:00,110
into the food, as we mentioned

463
00:13:00,110 --> 00:13:01,809
earlier. That's what drives both

464
00:13:01,809 --> 00:13:02,750
taste and health.

465
00:13:03,330 --> 00:13:04,370
Interestingly, I didn't know

466
00:13:04,370 --> 00:13:05,590
what a phytonutrient or a

467
00:13:05,590 --> 00:13:07,230
polyphenol was seven or eight

468
00:13:07,230 --> 00:13:08,490
years ago. I do now, and I know

469
00:13:08,490 --> 00:13:10,649
the critical importance of that.

470
00:13:11,269 --> 00:13:12,590
Now, the benefit from the

471
00:13:12,590 --> 00:13:14,569
farming perspective of taking on

472
00:13:14,569 --> 00:13:16,149
these practices is that you

473
00:13:16,149 --> 00:13:17,730
eventually, over time, as you

474
00:13:17,730 --> 00:13:19,009
build up the soil health, as you

475
00:13:19,009 --> 00:13:21,350
know, then you've got healthier

476
00:13:21,350 --> 00:13:23,509
crops that need less

477
00:13:23,509 --> 00:13:26,110
sprays, they need less labor.

478
00:13:26,350 --> 00:13:28,049
So, you're reducing down the

479
00:13:28,049 --> 00:13:29,090
cost of

480
00:13:29,820 --> 00:13:31,080
of the farming operation.

481
00:13:31,220 --> 00:13:33,440
If you can tie that into an

482
00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:34,820
increased demand at the opposite

483
00:13:34,820 --> 00:13:36,559
side, then you've got the ideal

484
00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:38,399
push pull dynamic.

485
00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:40,919
As I've seen it over the last

486
00:13:40,919 --> 00:13:42,039
five to six years,

487
00:13:43,470 --> 00:13:45,230
overtly the emphasis is on the

488
00:13:45,230 --> 00:13:46,570
farm and a lot of farmers are

489
00:13:46,570 --> 00:13:48,230
confused by regenerative as they

490
00:13:48,230 --> 00:13:49,370
have been in the past with with

491
00:13:49,370 --> 00:13:50,169
organic.

492
00:13:50,389 --> 00:13:51,409
How do we

493
00:13:51,870 --> 00:13:53,649
teach them, train them, educate

494
00:13:53,649 --> 00:13:55,169
them, open their minds.

495
00:13:55,730 --> 00:13:56,750
And it was an interesting

496
00:13:56,750 --> 00:13:58,149
conversation I had with someone

497
00:13:58,149 --> 00:14:00,090
a couple of weeks back about, we

498
00:14:00,090 --> 00:14:01,110
were talking about climate

499
00:14:01,110 --> 00:14:02,610
change, the impact of climate

500
00:14:02,610 --> 00:14:04,789
change and how everybody on the

501
00:14:04,789 --> 00:14:06,210
planet is now focused on that.

502
00:14:06,309 --> 00:14:07,889
I'm not getting into the ins and

503
00:14:07,889 --> 00:14:09,529
outs of whether it's manmade or

504
00:14:09,529 --> 00:14:10,329
not.

505
00:14:10,169 --> 00:14:11,889
The reality is we're facing a

506
00:14:11,889 --> 00:14:13,450
lot of extreme weather events.

507
00:14:14,799 --> 00:14:15,599
To me,

508
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:17,940
tying back into the food supply,

509
00:14:18,820 --> 00:14:20,419
and the quality of the food that

510
00:14:20,419 --> 00:14:23,000
we produce is also and for

511
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:24,360
farmers to move into this as

512
00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:25,159
well.

513
00:14:25,259 --> 00:14:26,480
We need a change of mindset.

514
00:14:26,899 --> 00:14:28,139
It's not climate change.

515
00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:29,680
That's the biggest challenge on

516
00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:31,799
the planet. It's the lack of our

517
00:14:31,799 --> 00:14:34,379
ability to welcome and open to

518
00:14:34,379 --> 00:14:35,179
change.

519
00:14:35,259 --> 00:14:37,019
The best way to do that is to

520
00:14:37,019 --> 00:14:38,639
show people the benefits.

521
00:14:38,779 --> 00:14:39,980
There's a lot of pain out there

522
00:14:39,980 --> 00:14:41,139
in farming at the moment.

523
00:14:41,639 --> 00:14:42,860
Farmers, certainly small and

524
00:14:42,860 --> 00:14:43,940
medium sized farmers, are

525
00:14:43,940 --> 00:14:45,680
struggling to make ends meet.

526
00:14:46,180 --> 00:14:48,440
So if we can tap into that

527
00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:50,460
existing demand as more people

528
00:14:50,460 --> 00:14:52,740
wake up, we can also tie into

529
00:14:52,740 --> 00:14:53,539
the Maha movement.

530
00:14:53,659 --> 00:14:54,539
Again, I'm not going into the

531
00:14:54,539 --> 00:14:55,840
politics of this, whether it's

532
00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:56,700
the left or the right.

533
00:14:57,509 --> 00:14:58,309
irrelevant.

534
00:14:58,370 --> 00:15:00,669
The reason why Maha Make America

535
00:15:00,669 --> 00:15:02,029
Healthy Again has sprung up and

536
00:15:02,029 --> 00:15:03,289
the particular focus on children

537
00:15:03,289 --> 00:15:04,490
at the moment is that everyone's

538
00:15:04,490 --> 00:15:05,710
got a concern around health.

539
00:15:05,850 --> 00:15:07,549
We know that there are a lot of

540
00:15:07,549 --> 00:15:09,169
broken systems in the world at

541
00:15:09,169 --> 00:15:09,969
the moment.

542
00:15:10,090 --> 00:15:11,889
The health care system and the

543
00:15:11,889 --> 00:15:13,789
agriculture system are

544
00:15:13,789 --> 00:15:15,230
symbiotically joined.

545
00:15:15,649 --> 00:15:18,009
And I often say it's kind of an

546
00:15:18,009 --> 00:15:19,970
oxymoron or a contradiction in

547
00:15:19,970 --> 00:15:21,649
terms to call it health care.

548
00:15:22,190 --> 00:15:23,569
What we've really got out there

549
00:15:23,569 --> 00:15:25,110
is disease and illness

550
00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:26,039
maintenance.

551
00:15:26,500 --> 00:15:28,279
It's not really health care.

552
00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:29,879
In order to be truly healthy,

553
00:15:30,220 --> 00:15:31,220
we've got to bring things like

554
00:15:31,220 --> 00:15:33,500
exercise, good sleep, rest, but

555
00:15:33,500 --> 00:15:35,639
quality, high -quality, nutrient

556
00:15:35,639 --> 00:15:37,000
-dense and clean food.

557
00:15:37,799 --> 00:15:39,620
And people have woken up to that

558
00:15:39,620 --> 00:15:41,340
now, and they're looking for it,

559
00:15:41,379 --> 00:15:42,659
and they're shopping for it.

560
00:15:43,159 --> 00:15:44,559
The regenerative movement has

561
00:15:44,559 --> 00:15:45,899
got this opportunity to take it

562
00:15:45,899 --> 00:15:47,100
on to the next level, but we

563
00:15:47,100 --> 00:15:49,360
have to create the story that

564
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:50,899
will reach out to them, create

565
00:15:50,899 --> 00:15:51,699
that narrative,

566
00:15:52,460 --> 00:15:53,919
and then get that communicated

567
00:15:53,919 --> 00:15:55,360
out to people so that they

568
00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:56,539
understand. The other key

569
00:15:56,539 --> 00:15:58,320
component part of this, as I see

570
00:15:58,320 --> 00:15:59,120
it,

571
00:15:58,879 --> 00:15:59,679
for those who

572
00:16:00,659 --> 00:16:02,500
produce either fresh produce or

573
00:16:02,500 --> 00:16:05,279
CPG packaged foods is to do it

574
00:16:05,279 --> 00:16:07,220
is to also educate, connect and

575
00:16:07,220 --> 00:16:08,139
communicate with the food

576
00:16:08,139 --> 00:16:08,939
retailers.

577
00:16:09,139 --> 00:16:10,179
We're seeing the likes of what

578
00:16:10,179 --> 00:16:11,919
they call the supernatural food

579
00:16:11,919 --> 00:16:13,759
retailers now leading the charge

580
00:16:13,759 --> 00:16:14,980
in the regenerative area.

581
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:16,179
So you've got the likes of whole

582
00:16:16,179 --> 00:16:17,799
foods and sprouts and natural

583
00:16:17,799 --> 00:16:18,599
grocers.

584
00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:22,120
They have long been exponents of

585
00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:23,159
organic foods.

586
00:16:24,190 --> 00:16:25,870
But it's the whole ethos behind

587
00:16:25,870 --> 00:16:27,250
that is to provide healthy,

588
00:16:27,590 --> 00:16:29,230
clean foods for customers and

589
00:16:29,230 --> 00:16:30,490
consumers who are looking for

590
00:16:30,490 --> 00:16:31,289
them.

591
00:16:31,180 --> 00:16:32,759
They are now, they've now woken

592
00:16:32,759 --> 00:16:34,080
up over the last few years to

593
00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:35,659
the benefits and the potential

594
00:16:35,659 --> 00:16:36,460
of regenerative.

595
00:16:36,559 --> 00:16:38,139
So they are moving into this as

596
00:16:38,139 --> 00:16:38,939
well.

597
00:16:38,700 --> 00:16:40,200
We have to continue the

598
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:41,460
conversations and all the likes

599
00:16:41,460 --> 00:16:44,220
of ROC and Regenified are

600
00:16:44,220 --> 00:16:45,340
already doing this very

601
00:16:45,340 --> 00:16:46,139
successfully.

602
00:16:46,299 --> 00:16:47,639
That's going to broaden out in

603
00:16:47,639 --> 00:16:49,080
the next one to three years.

604
00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:51,419
And then we need as farmers and

605
00:16:51,419 --> 00:16:52,759
farm operations and food

606
00:16:52,759 --> 00:16:54,500
companies to be tied into that.

607
00:16:55,090 --> 00:16:56,649
And talking of food companies,

608
00:16:56,710 --> 00:16:58,350
we said at the start, I started

609
00:16:58,350 --> 00:17:00,210
off working for the big food

610
00:17:00,210 --> 00:17:01,029
corporations.

611
00:17:01,629 --> 00:17:02,850
They've made commitments in the

612
00:17:02,850 --> 00:17:03,730
last five years.

613
00:17:03,789 --> 00:17:04,890
It was part of the conversation

614
00:17:04,890 --> 00:17:07,130
I had with the owner and leader

615
00:17:07,130 --> 00:17:08,529
of Unigrow Farm,

616
00:17:09,430 --> 00:17:10,829
who's, as I said, very, very

617
00:17:10,829 --> 00:17:12,029
astute business guy.

618
00:17:12,190 --> 00:17:13,410
And I said, follow the money.

619
00:17:14,029 --> 00:17:14,930
When you look at the big

620
00:17:14,930 --> 00:17:15,730
multinational,

621
00:17:16,069 --> 00:17:17,490
multibillion dollar companies

622
00:17:17,490 --> 00:17:18,670
talking about regenerative

623
00:17:18,670 --> 00:17:20,380
agriculture and change, then you

624
00:17:20,380 --> 00:17:21,599
know there's a movement towards

625
00:17:21,599 --> 00:17:22,399
that.

626
00:17:22,099 --> 00:17:23,759
On the back of a napkin, you

627
00:17:23,759 --> 00:17:25,019
could probably scratch out about

628
00:17:25,019 --> 00:17:26,559
100 million acres that they've

629
00:17:26,559 --> 00:17:28,319
committed to regeneratively

630
00:17:28,319 --> 00:17:31,299
transition up to 2030,

631
00:17:31,819 --> 00:17:32,680
31, 32.

632
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:34,759
It's tied into the climate

633
00:17:34,759 --> 00:17:36,460
protocols, but it's also because

634
00:17:36,460 --> 00:17:37,799
they see that that's where the

635
00:17:37,799 --> 00:17:39,279
consumer's moving towards.

636
00:17:39,380 --> 00:17:40,619
And the consumers, I said this

637
00:17:40,619 --> 00:17:41,539
all the time, you can vote at

638
00:17:41,539 --> 00:17:42,339
the ballot box,

639
00:17:42,660 --> 00:17:43,839
or you can vote at the cash

640
00:17:43,839 --> 00:17:44,639
register.

641
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:45,759
Your dollar,

642
00:17:45,900 --> 00:17:47,119
oftentimes it's not, will carry

643
00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:48,400
a lot more weight than the X

644
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,000
that you put on the box, on your

645
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:50,799
ballot box,

646
00:17:50,940 --> 00:17:51,980
on your ballot slip,

647
00:17:52,460 --> 00:17:53,519
because that's where the

648
00:17:53,519 --> 00:17:54,700
corporation is going to listen.

649
00:17:54,799 --> 00:17:56,660
We underestimate the power that

650
00:17:56,660 --> 00:17:58,940
the consumer has, but a lot of

651
00:17:58,940 --> 00:18:00,420
that has to be driven by the

652
00:18:00,420 --> 00:18:01,519
education side of things.

653
00:18:02,690 --> 00:18:04,630
All right. So you just mentioned

654
00:18:04,630 --> 00:18:05,430
the magic phrase.

655
00:18:05,470 --> 00:18:06,390
A lot of that has to be driven

656
00:18:06,390 --> 00:18:07,910
by the education side of things.

657
00:18:08,230 --> 00:18:09,029
So from

658
00:18:09,539 --> 00:18:10,700
a practical perspective,

659
00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:12,720
I'm a farmer

660
00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:14,019
somewhere in

661
00:18:14,450 --> 00:18:15,410
great country in the United

662
00:18:15,410 --> 00:18:16,210
States?

663
00:18:16,910 --> 00:18:18,690
What impact can I really have?

664
00:18:20,009 --> 00:18:21,230
And is it my responsibility?

665
00:18:22,710 --> 00:18:23,990
And how should I expect to be

666
00:18:23,990 --> 00:18:26,130
rewarded for consumer education?

667
00:18:26,549 --> 00:18:27,349
I

668
00:18:27,529 --> 00:18:30,589
see two challenges with this

669
00:18:30,589 --> 00:18:32,630
conversation around consumer

670
00:18:32,630 --> 00:18:33,430
education.

671
00:18:34,059 --> 00:18:35,660
The one challenge is

672
00:18:36,029 --> 00:18:37,769
this conundrum.

673
00:18:38,940 --> 00:18:40,799
Charles Walters articulated it

674
00:18:40,799 --> 00:18:43,019
once clearly back in the 1970s,

675
00:18:43,039 --> 00:18:43,839
and I'm sure he probably

676
00:18:43,819 --> 00:18:44,680
borrowed it from elsewhere.

677
00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:48,039
I suppose you could say common

678
00:18:48,039 --> 00:18:49,220
wisdom. He said that people

679
00:18:49,220 --> 00:18:50,640
leave their senses as a group,

680
00:18:50,940 --> 00:18:52,000
and they come to their senses

681
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:52,799
one at a time.

682
00:18:53,930 --> 00:18:54,730
And

683
00:18:54,599 --> 00:18:56,740
I suppose we can see this now,

684
00:18:56,980 --> 00:18:57,880
that there is increasing

685
00:18:57,880 --> 00:18:59,440
information being revealed

686
00:19:00,170 --> 00:19:03,450
about the health impacts of the

687
00:19:03,450 --> 00:19:04,309
shots that

688
00:19:04,660 --> 00:19:06,920
were largely forced on people

689
00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:07,920
over the course of the last four

690
00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:08,859
or five years. There are now

691
00:19:08,859 --> 00:19:10,460
very, we're understanding there

692
00:19:10,460 --> 00:19:11,599
are very grave and very

693
00:19:11,599 --> 00:19:12,900
significant health consequences

694
00:19:12,900 --> 00:19:14,410
from those shots.

695
00:19:14,569 --> 00:19:15,700
And I think that's that's

696
00:19:15,700 --> 00:19:16,559
controversial anymore.

697
00:19:17,710 --> 00:19:18,509
But

698
00:19:19,099 --> 00:19:21,119
the reality is

699
00:19:21,490 --> 00:19:23,529
that a large proportion of

700
00:19:23,529 --> 00:19:24,329
people

701
00:19:24,549 --> 00:19:26,890
are still bought into

702
00:19:27,269 --> 00:19:30,509
this worldview that those

703
00:19:30,509 --> 00:19:33,309
shots were essential and were

704
00:19:33,309 --> 00:19:34,109
beneficial.

705
00:19:34,450 --> 00:19:36,369
The majority of the population

706
00:19:36,369 --> 00:19:38,490
hasn't woken up yet, at least

707
00:19:38,490 --> 00:19:39,829
from the data that I've seen and

708
00:19:39,829 --> 00:19:41,589
from what my understanding is at

709
00:19:41,589 --> 00:19:42,389
this moment.

710
00:19:43,529 --> 00:19:45,029
People leave their senses as a

711
00:19:45,029 --> 00:19:46,089
group they come to their senses

712
00:19:46,089 --> 00:19:46,930
one at a time

713
00:19:47,269 --> 00:19:48,930
and when you look at consumer

714
00:19:48,930 --> 00:19:49,730
education

715
00:19:50,220 --> 00:19:52,000
if you just look at this from

716
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:53,480
the north american from united

717
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:55,140
states context all of a sudden

718
00:19:55,140 --> 00:19:58,400
you now change from a you

719
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,180
know expanded the scope of the

720
00:20:00,180 --> 00:20:01,400
problem of the audience that

721
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:03,200
needs to be shifted to i don't

722
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:04,819
know how many how many buyers

723
00:20:04,819 --> 00:20:05,859
are there from a consumer

724
00:20:05,859 --> 00:20:06,659
household.

725
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:08,740
perspective, 100 million people,

726
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:10,240
perhaps 80 million people.

727
00:20:10,380 --> 00:20:12,079
So from a consumer education

728
00:20:12,079 --> 00:20:13,559
perspective, you have this very

729
00:20:13,559 --> 00:20:15,220
large audience that needs to be

730
00:20:15,220 --> 00:20:16,519
shifted and they will only shift

731
00:20:16,519 --> 00:20:18,039
one at a time until they cross a

732
00:20:18,039 --> 00:20:18,839
certain threshold.

733
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:20,140
And there's significant demand

734
00:20:20,140 --> 00:20:20,940
change.

735
00:20:21,519 --> 00:20:22,319
So

736
00:20:22,059 --> 00:20:24,759
we you and I are talking right

737
00:20:24,759 --> 00:20:26,960
now on a podcast that is largely

738
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,819
listened to by people in the

739
00:20:29,819 --> 00:20:31,900
countryside, by by farmers, by

740
00:20:31,900 --> 00:20:34,640
agronomists, by ranchers and for

741
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:35,960
for this audience.

742
00:20:36,710 --> 00:20:38,369
for the people who are engaged

743
00:20:38,369 --> 00:20:39,529
in this work every day, from a

744
00:20:39,529 --> 00:20:41,470
very practical perspective, what

745
00:20:41,940 --> 00:20:44,240
can they do? What power do they

746
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:45,960
have to actually move the

747
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:46,759
needle?

748
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:50,359
Maybe farmers specifically,

749
00:20:50,539 --> 00:20:51,339
you're talking, Joe.

750
00:20:52,299 --> 00:20:53,680
Yes, for the moment, let's say

751
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:54,480
that.

752
00:20:57,069 --> 00:20:58,630
When I present, I often,

753
00:20:59,250 --> 00:21:00,890
in front of farmers, I often ask

754
00:21:00,890 --> 00:21:01,690
this question,

755
00:21:02,349 --> 00:21:03,849
what are you in business to

756
00:21:03,849 --> 00:21:04,649
achieve?

757
00:21:05,609 --> 00:21:07,569
And I get a plethora,

758
00:21:07,890 --> 00:21:09,970
a smorgasbord of answers coming

759
00:21:09,970 --> 00:21:10,769
in.

760
00:21:11,019 --> 00:21:12,759
I'm in business because I like

761
00:21:12,759 --> 00:21:13,559
farming.

762
00:21:13,539 --> 00:21:14,579
I'm in business because I want

763
00:21:14,579 --> 00:21:15,900
to grow healthy crops.

764
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,779
I'm in business because there's

765
00:21:19,289 --> 00:21:20,690
a whole series of answers that

766
00:21:20,690 --> 00:21:21,490
will come back in.

767
00:21:21,470 --> 00:21:23,670
So I let people give me the

768
00:21:23,670 --> 00:21:25,009
answers that they perceive off

769
00:21:25,009 --> 00:21:25,809
from that question.

770
00:21:25,869 --> 00:21:26,849
And then I ask the question

771
00:21:26,849 --> 00:21:28,710
again more pointedly, what are

772
00:21:28,710 --> 00:21:30,569
you in business to achieve?

773
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:32,440
And the answer to that, if

774
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:33,700
you're in any business, is to

775
00:21:33,700 --> 00:21:34,539
make a profit.

776
00:21:35,460 --> 00:21:36,859
If you're not making a profit,

777
00:21:37,039 --> 00:21:38,380
you're either struggling or

778
00:21:38,380 --> 00:21:39,500
you're going to go out of

779
00:21:39,500 --> 00:21:40,859
business, which is what most

780
00:21:40,859 --> 00:21:43,180
startups do over a short period

781
00:21:43,180 --> 00:21:43,980
of time.

782
00:21:44,390 --> 00:21:46,109
And small and medium -sized

783
00:21:46,109 --> 00:21:47,190
farms, particularly,

784
00:21:47,549 --> 00:21:48,950
are struggling right now.

785
00:21:49,250 --> 00:21:50,769
Over half of farmers have been

786
00:21:50,769 --> 00:21:52,190
in debt for over 10 years.

787
00:21:52,910 --> 00:21:54,170
They're struggling to make ends

788
00:21:54,170 --> 00:21:55,309
meet, particularly if you're in

789
00:21:55,309 --> 00:21:56,849
the commodity sector side of

790
00:21:56,849 --> 00:21:57,649
things.

791
00:21:57,890 --> 00:22:00,349
Your inputs are only ever going

792
00:22:00,349 --> 00:22:01,650
in one direction when it comes

793
00:22:01,650 --> 00:22:03,009
to cost, particularly if they're

794
00:22:03,009 --> 00:22:04,569
tied into petrochemicals, which

795
00:22:04,569 --> 00:22:05,789
a lot of the inputs are.

796
00:22:06,710 --> 00:22:08,890
And we're dealing with nature.

797
00:22:09,009 --> 00:22:10,369
Mother Nature's a lot smarter

798
00:22:10,369 --> 00:22:11,990
than we are. We talk about

799
00:22:11,990 --> 00:22:13,210
battling with Mother Nature.

800
00:22:13,349 --> 00:22:14,970
I've always preferred to,

801
00:22:15,369 --> 00:22:17,349
I like to call it dance with

802
00:22:17,349 --> 00:22:18,549
Mother Nature since I've came

803
00:22:18,549 --> 00:22:19,349
into agriculture.

804
00:22:19,390 --> 00:22:21,170
She's a lot smarter than we are.

805
00:22:21,329 --> 00:22:23,589
So we can tap into the

806
00:22:23,589 --> 00:22:25,210
intelligence that's there, then

807
00:22:25,210 --> 00:22:26,869
we've got an opportunity to

808
00:22:26,869 --> 00:22:28,670
create a collaborative alliance

809
00:22:28,670 --> 00:22:29,509
with nature.

810
00:22:30,220 --> 00:22:31,160
So farmers,

811
00:22:32,420 --> 00:22:34,119
might be very, very good at

812
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:35,680
farming. I've met a lot of great

813
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:36,880
farmers, I've been blessed to

814
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:38,359
meet and have friends amongst

815
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:39,940
the farming community, but that

816
00:22:39,940 --> 00:22:41,819
doesn't necessarily mean that

817
00:22:41,819 --> 00:22:43,500
they are great at business and

818
00:22:43,500 --> 00:22:47,000
very few understand the benefits

819
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:48,420
and the necessity of marketing

820
00:22:48,420 --> 00:22:49,420
and business development.

821
00:22:50,259 --> 00:22:51,940
So being great at growing food

822
00:22:51,940 --> 00:22:53,779
is a different skill set from

823
00:22:53,779 --> 00:22:54,920
running a market driven

824
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:55,720
business.

825
00:22:56,220 --> 00:22:58,740
They don't They wouldn't think

826
00:22:58,740 --> 00:22:59,900
twice about bringing an

827
00:22:59,900 --> 00:23:01,519
agronomist in or someone like

828
00:23:01,519 --> 00:23:03,740
yourself, AEA. We use AEA

829
00:23:03,740 --> 00:23:06,440
products. We use AEA as a

830
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,099
consultant. We also use Gabe

831
00:23:08,099 --> 00:23:09,339
Brown's Understanding Ag.

832
00:23:09,900 --> 00:23:12,740
So in areas of specific need, or

833
00:23:12,740 --> 00:23:14,200
focus, or where we want to

834
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:15,980
optimize, we will pay to bring

835
00:23:15,980 --> 00:23:17,400
somebody in to guide us.

836
00:23:17,779 --> 00:23:19,019
But there isn't that thought

837
00:23:19,019 --> 00:23:21,200
process yet behind marketing and

838
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:22,019
business development.

839
00:23:22,460 --> 00:23:24,579
And you're not naturally grown

840
00:23:24,579 --> 00:23:25,940
into being a marketer or a

841
00:23:25,940 --> 00:23:26,740
business developer.

842
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:28,759
So my view these days, and I've

843
00:23:28,759 --> 00:23:30,000
been saying this more and more,

844
00:23:30,319 --> 00:23:31,980
and sharing my, not just

845
00:23:31,980 --> 00:23:33,460
thoughts, but skill sets behind

846
00:23:33,460 --> 00:23:35,299
it, is to offer these services

847
00:23:35,299 --> 00:23:36,119
to farmers.

848
00:23:37,140 --> 00:23:38,359
People say, oh, we can't afford

849
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:39,940
it. Then it's what's the end?

850
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:40,960
Again,

851
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:42,259
if you're looking to achieve a

852
00:23:42,259 --> 00:23:43,519
profit, what's the best way

853
00:23:43,519 --> 00:23:44,420
through to do that?

854
00:23:44,519 --> 00:23:45,920
You've got to reduce your costs,

855
00:23:46,059 --> 00:23:47,319
and you've got to increase the

856
00:23:47,319 --> 00:23:48,119
demand.

857
00:23:48,220 --> 00:23:49,420
And you've got to do that in an

858
00:23:49,420 --> 00:23:51,400
intelligent and conscious way as

859
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:52,440
possible, as you said.

860
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:53,759
So the farms,

861
00:23:54,039 --> 00:23:55,420
in my view, that we consistently

862
00:23:55,420 --> 00:23:56,759
treat marketing and business

863
00:23:56,759 --> 00:23:58,039
development as core parts of

864
00:23:58,039 --> 00:23:59,960
their operations, not as

865
00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:01,279
afterthoughts.

866
00:24:01,660 --> 00:24:03,319
So for farmers to want to move

867
00:24:03,319 --> 00:24:04,920
on to a different level now, and

868
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:06,480
again this is where regenerative

869
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:07,960
and organic can offer them an

870
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:09,440
opportunity to move into more

871
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:10,519
premium markets.

872
00:24:10,940 --> 00:24:12,279
Not everybody can do that, but

873
00:24:12,279 --> 00:24:13,099
those that can,

874
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,099
this is a real opportunity area.

875
00:24:15,299 --> 00:24:17,000
And we're seeing this again from

876
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:18,839
big money coming into the

877
00:24:18,839 --> 00:24:20,779
agriculture sector.

878
00:24:20,980 --> 00:24:22,700
There's companies like Farmland

879
00:24:22,700 --> 00:24:23,940
LP. There's companies like

880
00:24:23,940 --> 00:24:24,900
Agriculture Capital.

881
00:24:25,460 --> 00:24:26,900
These are companies that invest

882
00:24:26,900 --> 00:24:27,940
in agricultural land.

883
00:24:28,380 --> 00:24:30,619
But they'll take a monocrop or a

884
00:24:30,619 --> 00:24:32,480
duocrop farm operation that's

885
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:33,279
conventional,

886
00:24:33,279 --> 00:24:34,480
and they'll convert it into

887
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,279
multicrop, specialty crop, fresh

888
00:24:36,279 --> 00:24:37,079
produce,

889
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:38,559
and then move them into organic

890
00:24:38,559 --> 00:24:39,359
and regenerative.

891
00:24:39,420 --> 00:24:40,279
Why are they doing that?

892
00:24:40,779 --> 00:24:42,880
Because that puts extra value on

893
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:44,259
the farm operation, on the

894
00:24:44,259 --> 00:24:45,059
crops,

895
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:46,000
the land.

896
00:24:46,660 --> 00:24:48,619
So this is tying in again, it's

897
00:24:48,619 --> 00:24:50,339
the business ethos all the time

898
00:24:50,339 --> 00:24:51,420
that we have to encourage

899
00:24:51,420 --> 00:24:52,960
farmers to come on board with,

900
00:24:53,079 --> 00:24:54,980
if they feel uncomfortable with

901
00:24:54,980 --> 00:24:56,200
that, or they feel they need

902
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:57,359
guidance, there's plenty of

903
00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:58,640
support that you can tap into

904
00:24:58,640 --> 00:24:59,440
out there.

905
00:24:59,539 --> 00:25:01,480
And that's what this is about in

906
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,940
this next phase of moving

907
00:25:03,940 --> 00:25:06,059
American agriculture and global

908
00:25:06,059 --> 00:25:07,420
agriculture to the next level.

909
00:25:08,990 --> 00:25:10,089
All right. So once more, I'm

910
00:25:10,089 --> 00:25:11,509
trying to put myself in the

911
00:25:11,509 --> 00:25:14,250
position of a

912
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:15,200
common,

913
00:25:16,019 --> 00:25:16,819
well,

914
00:25:17,609 --> 00:25:18,470
that word could have negative

915
00:25:18,470 --> 00:25:20,789
connotation, I suppose, but a

916
00:25:20,789 --> 00:25:22,309
usual or typical grower.

917
00:25:23,150 --> 00:25:24,950
And of course, growers are

918
00:25:24,950 --> 00:25:27,529
producing a wide spectrum, a

919
00:25:27,529 --> 00:25:28,869
wide variety of crops all across

920
00:25:28,869 --> 00:25:30,309
the country. But putting myself

921
00:25:30,309 --> 00:25:31,390
into the shoes of a typical

922
00:25:31,390 --> 00:25:32,190
grower,

923
00:25:33,329 --> 00:25:34,210
many of them,

924
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:36,880
majority of them are the crops

925
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:37,680
that they're producing.

926
00:25:38,849 --> 00:25:39,649
There isn't

927
00:25:39,950 --> 00:25:40,750
any,

928
00:25:41,670 --> 00:25:43,509
and I would argue that this is

929
00:25:43,509 --> 00:25:45,690
true for many fresh market

930
00:25:45,690 --> 00:25:46,750
produce and fruit and vegetable

931
00:25:46,750 --> 00:25:48,109
growers as well, is they don't

932
00:25:48,109 --> 00:25:48,909
have

933
00:25:49,549 --> 00:25:51,049
significant leverage

934
00:25:52,349 --> 00:25:53,149
in

935
00:25:53,390 --> 00:25:54,450
having a

936
00:25:54,890 --> 00:25:56,509
great deal of brand equity or

937
00:25:56,509 --> 00:25:57,309
brand value.

938
00:25:58,279 --> 00:25:59,380
The large retailers, for

939
00:25:59,380 --> 00:26:00,180
example,

940
00:26:00,569 --> 00:26:02,710
they're usually buying based on

941
00:26:02,710 --> 00:26:04,430
market window, what products are

942
00:26:04,430 --> 00:26:05,609
available in a certain market

943
00:26:05,609 --> 00:26:06,950
window, in a certain context.

944
00:26:07,410 --> 00:26:08,230
They're, of course, looking for

945
00:26:08,230 --> 00:26:09,650
certain quality characteristics,

946
00:26:09,650 --> 00:26:11,029
such as storability,

947
00:26:11,210 --> 00:26:12,009
shippability,

948
00:26:12,089 --> 00:26:14,069
and lack of loss in transport

949
00:26:14,509 --> 00:26:16,670
through the supply chain.

950
00:26:18,369 --> 00:26:19,169
So

951
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:20,400
in

952
00:26:20,839 --> 00:26:23,380
this fresh space, in particular,

953
00:26:24,220 --> 00:26:26,980
there doesn't seem to be a great

954
00:26:26,980 --> 00:26:27,940
deal of value

955
00:26:28,599 --> 00:26:29,399
in

956
00:26:29,900 --> 00:26:31,380
having a lot of brand equity.

957
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:32,599
Brand equity is usually very

958
00:26:32,599 --> 00:26:33,399
fleeting.

959
00:26:33,839 --> 00:26:36,299
So within all that, I'd

960
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:37,920
like to get your thoughts and

961
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:39,200
your perspective on how do you

962
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,150
actually create demand and how

963
00:26:42,150 --> 00:26:44,029
do you do business development

964
00:26:44,029 --> 00:26:45,529
effectively in that type of

965
00:26:45,529 --> 00:26:46,329
environment?

966
00:26:48,849 --> 00:26:50,910
Amongst the dynamic we've been

967
00:26:50,910 --> 00:26:52,690
talking about of this greater

968
00:26:52,690 --> 00:26:55,109
awareness and greater demand

969
00:26:55,619 --> 00:26:57,680
healthier, better tasting foods,

970
00:26:58,119 --> 00:26:59,180
again, fresh produce

971
00:26:59,180 --> 00:27:00,420
specifically, but the same

972
00:27:00,420 --> 00:27:01,720
applies to CPG.

973
00:27:02,259 --> 00:27:03,259
We've seen a movement,

974
00:27:03,619 --> 00:27:04,619
and if we're going to reference,

975
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:06,160
as you've stated,

976
00:27:06,859 --> 00:27:09,539
fresh produce particularly,

977
00:27:09,980 --> 00:27:11,319
there's been a growing movement

978
00:27:11,319 --> 00:27:13,700
over well over a decade of what

979
00:27:13,700 --> 00:27:15,920
they call farm to fork within

980
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,539
restaurants or farm to table.

981
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,099
where people are looking at one

982
00:27:21,099 --> 00:27:22,640
of the key dynamics that people

983
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:23,480
look out for,

984
00:27:23,819 --> 00:27:25,220
particularly in fresh food is

985
00:27:25,220 --> 00:27:27,279
whether it's local, going to any

986
00:27:27,279 --> 00:27:30,019
local food retailer, go shop at

987
00:27:30,019 --> 00:27:31,420
a farmer's market is the obvious

988
00:27:31,420 --> 00:27:32,900
case, but going to any local

989
00:27:32,900 --> 00:27:34,059
food retailer,

990
00:27:34,420 --> 00:27:35,920
whether it's a supernatural like

991
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:37,200
a Whole Foods or a Sprouts,

992
00:27:37,700 --> 00:27:39,299
or it's one of the mainstream

993
00:27:39,299 --> 00:27:40,619
boys like a Walmart,

994
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:42,000
Kroger,

995
00:27:41,900 --> 00:27:44,119
you'll see the appetizing and

996
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:45,700
the promotion and the story

997
00:27:45,700 --> 00:27:47,259
behind local

998
00:27:48,329 --> 00:27:50,390
farmers and local food, locally

999
00:27:50,390 --> 00:27:52,130
grown food. People buy into

1000
00:27:52,130 --> 00:27:52,930
that.

1001
00:27:52,910 --> 00:27:54,410
We've kind of lost connection

1002
00:27:54,410 --> 00:27:56,230
with where our food comes from,

1003
00:27:56,269 --> 00:27:57,069
the supply chain.

1004
00:27:57,210 --> 00:27:59,690
Everything is bought, as I said,

1005
00:27:59,750 --> 00:28:00,890
most of the food that we buy is

1006
00:28:00,890 --> 00:28:01,750
bought in a package.

1007
00:28:01,970 --> 00:28:03,269
There's no connection with that

1008
00:28:03,269 --> 00:28:04,930
coming from a farm, being grown

1009
00:28:04,930 --> 00:28:06,910
in the soil or having livestock

1010
00:28:06,910 --> 00:28:09,069
graze on pasture.

1011
00:28:09,349 --> 00:28:11,490
It comes in a way that's easily

1012
00:28:11,490 --> 00:28:12,289
packaged.

1013
00:28:12,910 --> 00:28:13,710
It's

1014
00:28:14,019 --> 00:28:16,140
created and manufactured for

1015
00:28:16,140 --> 00:28:18,960
speed and for convenience and

1016
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:19,819
for price.

1017
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:22,400
Whereas there's been a growing

1018
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,039
movement over the last few

1019
00:28:24,039 --> 00:28:24,839
years,

1020
00:28:24,839 --> 00:28:26,759
both in restaurants and in food

1021
00:28:26,759 --> 00:28:29,460
retailers, for the benefits of

1022
00:28:29,460 --> 00:28:32,119
having locally produced produce.

1023
00:28:32,460 --> 00:28:34,960
That's something which farmers

1024
00:28:35,470 --> 00:28:36,910
the more astute farmers out

1025
00:28:36,910 --> 00:28:37,890
there. And there's a number of

1026
00:28:37,890 --> 00:28:39,569
them who have woken up to this

1027
00:28:39,569 --> 00:28:40,829
and are doing it in a really

1028
00:28:40,829 --> 00:28:42,490
excellent way of taking

1029
00:28:42,490 --> 00:28:43,289
advantage of.

1030
00:28:43,630 --> 00:28:45,130
You've got people on a national

1031
00:28:45,130 --> 00:28:47,609
level that are doing it as well.

1032
00:28:47,809 --> 00:28:49,890
So the opportunity

1033
00:28:50,380 --> 00:28:52,279
there to tap into these

1034
00:28:52,279 --> 00:28:53,680
dynamics. What we've got to have

1035
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:54,680
an understanding of what

1036
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,799
dynamics are specific and

1037
00:28:56,799 --> 00:28:58,480
advantageous to the crops that

1038
00:28:58,480 --> 00:28:59,279
you're growing.

1039
00:28:59,519 --> 00:29:01,099
And then all the ways that you

1040
00:29:01,099 --> 00:29:03,420
can embellish that improve that

1041
00:29:03,420 --> 00:29:04,500
optimize that.

1042
00:29:04,859 --> 00:29:06,380
And this is why as I said the

1043
00:29:06,380 --> 00:29:08,000
potential to move from

1044
00:29:08,700 --> 00:29:10,579
commodity conventional through

1045
00:29:10,579 --> 00:29:12,700
organic to regenerative is

1046
00:29:12,700 --> 00:29:14,220
allowing you to move into more

1047
00:29:14,220 --> 00:29:15,180
premium pricing.

1048
00:29:16,190 --> 00:29:18,089
And you mentioned it earlier

1049
00:29:18,089 --> 00:29:20,210
about how we increase that

1050
00:29:20,210 --> 00:29:22,109
supply. So how do you increase

1051
00:29:22,109 --> 00:29:23,369
that demand. How do you

1052
00:29:23,369 --> 00:29:25,130
incentivize that demand to grow

1053
00:29:25,130 --> 00:29:26,730
so that there's a greater pull

1054
00:29:26,730 --> 00:29:27,529
through.

1055
00:29:28,190 --> 00:29:29,369
It's something called the bell

1056
00:29:29,369 --> 00:29:30,730
curve. It's like a universal

1057
00:29:30,730 --> 00:29:31,529
law.

1058
00:29:31,809 --> 00:29:32,910
And I'm going to go into the

1059
00:29:32,910 --> 00:29:34,069
intricacies of it from an

1060
00:29:34,069 --> 00:29:35,029
economics perspective.

1061
00:29:35,309 --> 00:29:37,069
But you have a small slice of

1062
00:29:37,069 --> 00:29:38,849
people at the front end who they

1063
00:29:38,849 --> 00:29:39,890
call the innovators.

1064
00:29:40,130 --> 00:29:41,369
Behind that you've got the early

1065
00:29:41,369 --> 00:29:42,930
adopters. Behind that you've got

1066
00:29:42,930 --> 00:29:43,890
the early majority.

1067
00:29:44,450 --> 00:29:45,549
You have to funnel

1068
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:47,940
people into those different

1069
00:29:47,940 --> 00:29:48,740
segments.

1070
00:29:48,900 --> 00:29:50,099
And then once you've got those

1071
00:29:50,099 --> 00:29:51,799
three coming in behind, the

1072
00:29:51,799 --> 00:29:53,299
majority of the laggards come in

1073
00:29:53,299 --> 00:29:55,480
as well. So this is a movement

1074
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:56,819
that can start off on a

1075
00:29:56,819 --> 00:29:58,400
relatively small level, like

1076
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,140
organic did in the past, it was

1077
00:30:00,140 --> 00:30:02,619
less than 1%. Now it's 15 to 10

1078
00:30:02,619 --> 00:30:04,779
to 15%. Regenerative is going to

1079
00:30:04,779 --> 00:30:06,380
follow a very similar path,

1080
00:30:06,980 --> 00:30:08,279
tie that into local

1081
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,619
build the story behind that and

1082
00:30:10,619 --> 00:30:11,819
suddenly you've got something

1083
00:30:11,819 --> 00:30:13,599
which people will buy into as a

1084
00:30:13,599 --> 00:30:15,240
consumer and they will be

1085
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:16,920
prepared to pay a price for

1086
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:17,720
that.

1087
00:30:17,660 --> 00:30:19,319
And then how we differentiate

1088
00:30:19,319 --> 00:30:21,240
that with the people that we've

1089
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:22,720
got to sell our products to.

1090
00:30:22,980 --> 00:30:24,579
So we have a customer as a

1091
00:30:24,579 --> 00:30:26,200
farmer not necessarily direct

1092
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:27,680
through to the consumer.

1093
00:30:28,059 --> 00:30:30,420
You can do DTC which is direct

1094
00:30:30,420 --> 00:30:31,440
to consumer whether you're

1095
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:32,240
selling online

1096
00:30:32,579 --> 00:30:33,880
or whether you get people coming

1097
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:35,339
to the farm or you sell at the

1098
00:30:35,339 --> 00:30:36,139
farmers market.

1099
00:30:36,559 --> 00:30:37,579
But a lot of the time we're

1100
00:30:37,579 --> 00:30:38,460
having to go through an

1101
00:30:38,460 --> 00:30:39,279
intermediary.

1102
00:30:39,599 --> 00:30:40,819
And this is another great

1103
00:30:40,819 --> 00:30:42,039
challenge as you and I have had

1104
00:30:42,039 --> 00:30:44,019
conversations before about how

1105
00:30:44,019 --> 00:30:46,579
95 percent of profit that

1106
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,119
is generated in that supply

1107
00:30:49,119 --> 00:30:51,700
chain goes out of the farm gate.

1108
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,759
5%, usually around 5%, is

1109
00:30:54,759 --> 00:30:55,839
retained by the farmer.

1110
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:57,319
The rest of it is gobbled up in

1111
00:30:57,319 --> 00:30:58,160
the supply chain.

1112
00:30:58,589 --> 00:30:59,789
So the price that consumers

1113
00:30:59,789 --> 00:31:01,750
paying is nothing like the price

1114
00:31:01,750 --> 00:31:03,029
that the farmer is getting.

1115
00:31:03,349 --> 00:31:04,950
How do we increase that

1116
00:31:04,950 --> 00:31:06,869
percentage share for the farmer

1117
00:31:06,869 --> 00:31:08,890
to make his farm operation more

1118
00:31:08,890 --> 00:31:10,410
viable and more profitable.

1119
00:31:10,809 --> 00:31:11,910
And this is again where

1120
00:31:11,910 --> 00:31:12,930
marketing and business

1121
00:31:12,930 --> 00:31:14,069
development comes in.

1122
00:31:14,269 --> 00:31:16,329
We have to give them the tools.

1123
00:31:16,490 --> 00:31:17,569
We have to give them the

1124
00:31:17,569 --> 00:31:19,849
education to build this out.

1125
00:31:20,549 --> 00:31:21,769
The bigger boys

1126
00:31:22,170 --> 00:31:23,769
are already doing it relatively

1127
00:31:23,769 --> 00:31:24,569
well.

1128
00:31:24,650 --> 00:31:26,150
The small and medium size, I

1129
00:31:26,150 --> 00:31:27,890
feel, have got opportunities to

1130
00:31:27,890 --> 00:31:29,349
move forward, potentially even

1131
00:31:29,349 --> 00:31:30,230
looking at a cooperative.

1132
00:31:31,650 --> 00:31:34,869
We have to be creative in how we

1133
00:31:34,869 --> 00:31:36,009
create these solutions.

1134
00:31:37,339 --> 00:31:38,139
So

1135
00:31:39,470 --> 00:31:41,410
I'm thinking

1136
00:31:42,009 --> 00:31:43,230
about what you're describing,

1137
00:31:43,470 --> 00:31:45,029
and I'm struggling to reconcile

1138
00:31:45,029 --> 00:31:47,289
a couple of what appear to me to

1139
00:31:47,289 --> 00:31:48,289
be disparate points.

1140
00:31:48,569 --> 00:31:50,309
So you mentioned the development

1141
00:31:50,309 --> 00:31:51,670
of a push versus a pull

1142
00:31:51,670 --> 00:31:53,690
strategy, of the push strategy

1143
00:31:53,690 --> 00:31:54,490
being

1144
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,579
that of we are essentially

1145
00:31:58,019 --> 00:32:01,180
the CPG companies, whatever

1146
00:32:01,180 --> 00:32:03,700
market forces or regulatory

1147
00:32:03,700 --> 00:32:05,400
forces might come into play in

1148
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,279
the future, where there is this

1149
00:32:07,279 --> 00:32:08,079
pressure

1150
00:32:08,269 --> 00:32:10,890
on farmers to

1151
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,140
shift to regenerative

1152
00:32:13,140 --> 00:32:13,940
agriculture,

1153
00:32:14,619 --> 00:32:16,500
perhaps with or without

1154
00:32:16,779 --> 00:32:19,539
additional compensation or

1155
00:32:19,539 --> 00:32:20,960
additional rewards for producing

1156
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:22,119
a higher quality product or

1157
00:32:22,119 --> 00:32:23,359
better ecosystem outcomes or

1158
00:32:23,359 --> 00:32:24,339
whatever the case might be.

1159
00:32:25,349 --> 00:32:26,650
And then you also

1160
00:32:28,059 --> 00:32:30,339
spoke about a push versus a pull

1161
00:32:30,339 --> 00:32:32,039
perspective from a particularly

1162
00:32:32,039 --> 00:32:33,680
a pull perspective in the

1163
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,420
context of creating consumer

1164
00:32:36,420 --> 00:32:37,220
demand.

1165
00:32:38,079 --> 00:32:38,880
And what

1166
00:32:39,829 --> 00:32:41,410
I'm hearing you describe, if I'm

1167
00:32:41,410 --> 00:32:43,109
understanding it correctly, is

1168
00:32:43,109 --> 00:32:44,910
you're suggesting that we create

1169
00:32:44,910 --> 00:32:46,769
consumer demand by having

1170
00:32:46,769 --> 00:32:48,230
thousands or tens of thousands

1171
00:32:48,230 --> 00:32:49,630
of different farmers and growers

1172
00:32:49,630 --> 00:32:51,029
communicating their story

1173
00:32:51,029 --> 00:32:52,210
effectively to the public,

1174
00:32:52,910 --> 00:32:54,170
which in some sense, and

1175
00:32:54,170 --> 00:32:56,250
becoming better at marketing,

1176
00:32:56,410 --> 00:32:57,390
becoming better at business

1177
00:32:57,390 --> 00:32:58,190
development,

1178
00:32:58,589 --> 00:33:01,289
which is a different

1179
00:33:01,569 --> 00:33:02,390
framing

1180
00:33:02,930 --> 00:33:04,970
But in a certain sense, again,

1181
00:33:05,089 --> 00:33:07,529
puts the responsibility back on

1182
00:33:07,529 --> 00:33:08,990
the farmers to to

1183
00:33:09,299 --> 00:33:10,420
become better marketers, to

1184
00:33:10,420 --> 00:33:11,220
become better at business

1185
00:33:11,220 --> 00:33:12,660
development, to become better at

1186
00:33:13,299 --> 00:33:15,000
at communicating their story.

1187
00:33:15,650 --> 00:33:17,210
And so it again places the

1188
00:33:17,210 --> 00:33:18,769
responsibility on them for

1189
00:33:18,769 --> 00:33:19,730
creating the poll.

1190
00:33:20,589 --> 00:33:21,609
Is that what you're saying in

1191
00:33:21,609 --> 00:33:22,409
essence?

1192
00:33:23,700 --> 00:33:25,700
Well, as always in life, you can

1193
00:33:25,700 --> 00:33:27,640
seek to do this individually, or

1194
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:28,740
you can seek to do it

1195
00:33:28,740 --> 00:33:29,539
collectively.

1196
00:33:30,180 --> 00:33:31,339
There's a number of

1197
00:33:31,339 --> 00:33:33,680
organizations out there now that

1198
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,539
can offer guidance, support,

1199
00:33:36,759 --> 00:33:40,160
advice in these specific areas.

1200
00:33:40,859 --> 00:33:42,079
I'll reference yourself.

1201
00:33:44,269 --> 00:33:45,950
and understanding ag as being

1202
00:33:45,950 --> 00:33:47,490
standout in that area with

1203
00:33:47,490 --> 00:33:49,650
regard to agronomic advice and

1204
00:33:49,650 --> 00:33:50,910
support. And I'm sure we will be

1205
00:33:50,910 --> 00:33:52,250
speaking at some point during

1206
00:33:52,250 --> 00:33:54,829
the podcast on ag tech,

1207
00:33:55,630 --> 00:33:56,990
precision agriculture, the

1208
00:33:56,990 --> 00:33:57,789
robotics,

1209
00:33:57,829 --> 00:33:59,250
the automation that's coming in

1210
00:33:59,250 --> 00:34:00,210
from new technology,

1211
00:34:00,529 --> 00:34:02,009
and AI specifically.

1212
00:34:02,609 --> 00:34:04,569
So all these things, we've got

1213
00:34:04,569 --> 00:34:06,250
existing tools that have been

1214
00:34:06,250 --> 00:34:07,769
around since the arc as far as

1215
00:34:07,769 --> 00:34:08,570
farms concerned.

1216
00:34:08,650 --> 00:34:10,010
We've seen this mass industrial

1217
00:34:10,010 --> 00:34:11,329
revolution take off.

1218
00:34:11,889 --> 00:34:13,590
over the past century and now

1219
00:34:13,590 --> 00:34:14,750
we're moving into the

1220
00:34:14,750 --> 00:34:16,329
information age and AI.

1221
00:34:16,610 --> 00:34:18,190
Everyone's talking about AI.

1222
00:34:18,429 --> 00:34:19,469
Let's cover that later.

1223
00:34:19,929 --> 00:34:22,949
As far as this specific area is

1224
00:34:22,949 --> 00:34:25,070
concerned, this can be very

1225
00:34:25,070 --> 00:34:27,369
confusing for many people.

1226
00:34:27,510 --> 00:34:30,869
It's not just farmers and in

1227
00:34:31,210 --> 00:34:33,260
the farming community.

1228
00:34:33,980 --> 00:34:35,019
Most businesses, most

1229
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:36,240
suffer,

1230
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,480
most businesses will go out of

1231
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:39,460
business, as I said at the

1232
00:34:39,460 --> 00:34:40,860
start, the vast majority, over

1233
00:34:40,860 --> 00:34:43,159
90 % of startup businesses fail.

1234
00:34:43,780 --> 00:34:44,760
And a lot of that is because

1235
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:45,880
they're not understanding what

1236
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,099
the consumer demand is, what the

1237
00:34:48,099 --> 00:34:49,380
potential for what they are

1238
00:34:49,380 --> 00:34:50,440
building, whether it's a product

1239
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,019
or service, the same applies to

1240
00:34:52,019 --> 00:34:52,820
farmers.

1241
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:54,039
This is the way we've always

1242
00:34:54,039 --> 00:34:54,840
done things.

1243
00:34:55,269 --> 00:34:57,369
It's growing and they build it

1244
00:34:57,369 --> 00:34:59,150
and they will come or grow it

1245
00:34:59,150 --> 00:35:00,150
and it will be sold.

1246
00:35:00,530 --> 00:35:03,190
And what you've got in the day

1247
00:35:03,190 --> 00:35:04,630
and age that we're in now is

1248
00:35:04,630 --> 00:35:05,610
more and more farms are

1249
00:35:05,610 --> 00:35:06,769
suffering. You've just got to

1250
00:35:06,769 --> 00:35:08,449
pick up any newspaper or any

1251
00:35:08,449 --> 00:35:11,889
farming online news source and

1252
00:35:11,889 --> 00:35:12,690
you'll see this.

1253
00:35:13,170 --> 00:35:14,969
And a lot of, as you well know,

1254
00:35:15,130 --> 00:35:16,869
as you and I both well know,

1255
00:35:17,269 --> 00:35:18,869
a lot of farms, a lot of the

1256
00:35:18,869 --> 00:35:20,170
farming communities kept alive

1257
00:35:20,170 --> 00:35:20,970
by subsidies.

1258
00:35:21,769 --> 00:35:23,690
How do we move it beyond that?

1259
00:35:23,969 --> 00:35:25,369
How do we give farmers the

1260
00:35:25,369 --> 00:35:27,070
opportunity to, as I say, move

1261
00:35:27,070 --> 00:35:28,630
towards making a profit that

1262
00:35:28,630 --> 00:35:31,070
allows them to enjoy farming

1263
00:35:31,070 --> 00:35:33,050
again and create something of

1264
00:35:33,050 --> 00:35:34,630
real value for themselves, for

1265
00:35:34,630 --> 00:35:35,849
the farmers and the consumers?

1266
00:35:36,349 --> 00:35:37,429
And this is where marketing

1267
00:35:37,429 --> 00:35:39,510
comes in. And I'll reference a

1268
00:35:39,510 --> 00:35:40,610
project. We were talking about

1269
00:35:40,610 --> 00:35:43,869
this just before the podcast.

1270
00:35:44,739 --> 00:35:46,179
The gentleman that I've been in

1271
00:35:46,179 --> 00:35:47,659
conversation with for several

1272
00:35:47,659 --> 00:35:48,460
months now,

1273
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:50,119
a gentleman by the name of

1274
00:35:50,119 --> 00:35:52,139
Surrender Ready, originates from

1275
00:35:52,139 --> 00:35:53,400
farming stock himself out in

1276
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:54,960
India. He's creating or in the

1277
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:56,380
process of building out

1278
00:35:56,380 --> 00:35:58,900
something called 451 Ventures

1279
00:35:58,900 --> 00:36:00,079
Initiative. What's that?

1280
00:36:00,500 --> 00:36:02,639
It's basically a platform that

1281
00:36:02,639 --> 00:36:03,719
helps build and scale

1282
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:04,800
regenerative agriculture

1283
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:05,900
companies and projects.

1284
00:36:06,559 --> 00:36:08,639
to it's using tech as a steward

1285
00:36:08,639 --> 00:36:10,179
of living systems you might say

1286
00:36:10,179 --> 00:36:11,900
and partners with our looks.

1287
00:36:12,019 --> 00:36:12,900
We'll be looking to partner with

1288
00:36:12,900 --> 00:36:14,659
farmers and founders and funders

1289
00:36:14,659 --> 00:36:15,619
because we've got to bring the

1290
00:36:15,619 --> 00:36:17,079
investment in as well to turn

1291
00:36:17,079 --> 00:36:20,179
pilots success create successful

1292
00:36:20,179 --> 00:36:21,900
pilots out in the farming

1293
00:36:21,900 --> 00:36:23,219
community looking at these

1294
00:36:23,219 --> 00:36:25,260
different ways of operating into

1295
00:36:25,260 --> 00:36:27,599
investable real world outcomes.

1296
00:36:28,300 --> 00:36:29,820
In order to do that we need a

1297
00:36:29,860 --> 00:36:31,420
coalition. I think probably the

1298
00:36:31,420 --> 00:36:32,500
best way I could describe it is

1299
00:36:32,500 --> 00:36:34,019
a coalition -style platform.

1300
00:36:34,619 --> 00:36:37,360
It pairs simple, farm -tested AI

1301
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,579
measurement with patient

1302
00:36:40,579 --> 00:36:42,400
-regenerative capital, which is

1303
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:43,360
somewhat of a bit of a,

1304
00:36:44,159 --> 00:36:45,739
in short, supply, as we all

1305
00:36:45,739 --> 00:36:46,920
know, as far as investment and

1306
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:48,800
finance is concerned, but also

1307
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:50,519
ties into that retailer -led

1308
00:36:50,519 --> 00:36:51,400
market pull.

1309
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,519
If you pull those dynamics

1310
00:36:54,519 --> 00:36:55,579
together, you've got an

1311
00:36:55,579 --> 00:36:57,000
opportunity to accelerate

1312
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:58,460
towards becoming profitable,

1313
00:36:58,820 --> 00:36:59,960
outcomes verified,

1314
00:37:01,309 --> 00:37:02,389
regenerative farming,

1315
00:37:02,690 --> 00:37:03,630
particularly in the specialty

1316
00:37:03,630 --> 00:37:04,769
crops and the fresh produce

1317
00:37:04,769 --> 00:37:05,570
area.

1318
00:37:05,610 --> 00:37:07,510
This doesn't necessarily apply

1319
00:37:07,510 --> 00:37:08,449
across all farming.

1320
00:37:08,750 --> 00:37:09,849
What I'm talking about here

1321
00:37:09,849 --> 00:37:11,309
specifically is the opportunity

1322
00:37:11,309 --> 00:37:13,030
within specialty crops and fresh

1323
00:37:13,030 --> 00:37:13,830
produce.

1324
00:37:14,269 --> 00:37:16,610
So these type of initiatives are

1325
00:37:16,610 --> 00:37:17,809
out there. I've mentioned Agland

1326
00:37:17,809 --> 00:37:18,610
investment.

1327
00:37:18,809 --> 00:37:21,650
There's a growing community of

1328
00:37:21,650 --> 00:37:24,389
regenerative investment coming

1329
00:37:24,389 --> 00:37:26,230
in now that isn't just looking

1330
00:37:26,230 --> 00:37:27,269
at a quick book.

1331
00:37:27,329 --> 00:37:29,050
How do we turn this into profit

1332
00:37:29,050 --> 00:37:31,130
and exit quickly so that we

1333
00:37:31,130 --> 00:37:32,349
maximize our profitability?

1334
00:37:32,949 --> 00:37:34,769
It's almost like what you might

1335
00:37:34,769 --> 00:37:36,329
call a philanthropreneur.

1336
00:37:36,889 --> 00:37:38,949
They're entrepreneurial venture

1337
00:37:38,949 --> 00:37:41,489
investors who are looking to do

1338
00:37:41,489 --> 00:37:43,190
good. And they're also looking

1339
00:37:43,190 --> 00:37:45,769
to find farmers who are open to

1340
00:37:45,769 --> 00:37:46,570
change.

1341
00:37:47,139 --> 00:37:49,280
We have to make, there has to be

1342
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:50,639
change. There has to be an

1343
00:37:50,639 --> 00:37:52,039
evolution in the way that we're

1344
00:37:52,039 --> 00:37:52,840
doing things.

1345
00:37:53,059 --> 00:37:53,860
Otherwise,

1346
00:37:53,659 --> 00:37:54,760
we'll always have what we've

1347
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:55,560
always got.

1348
00:37:56,030 --> 00:37:57,869
So this is an opportunity to

1349
00:37:57,869 --> 00:38:01,010
come together collaboratively

1350
00:38:01,010 --> 00:38:03,530
in a cooperative style or a

1351
00:38:03,530 --> 00:38:04,969
coalition style, whatever

1352
00:38:04,969 --> 00:38:06,869
terminology you feel comfortable

1353
00:38:06,869 --> 00:38:09,309
with, and then utilize people

1354
00:38:09,309 --> 00:38:10,969
who've got different strengths

1355
00:38:10,969 --> 00:38:12,809
and abilities, and then pull

1356
00:38:12,809 --> 00:38:15,110
that together for commonality of

1357
00:38:15,110 --> 00:38:16,550
purpose and benefit.

1358
00:38:20,269 --> 00:38:21,389
All right. I'd like to,

1359
00:38:21,690 --> 00:38:24,820
I think there's going to be some

1360
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:26,780
meat here for further digestion

1361
00:38:26,780 --> 00:38:28,280
and further conversation as this

1362
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:29,480
conversation goes along and in

1363
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:30,719
future conversations as well.

1364
00:38:31,260 --> 00:38:32,579
But I'd like to shift topics a

1365
00:38:32,579 --> 00:38:34,239
bit and several times in the

1366
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:35,059
course of the conversation,

1367
00:38:35,139 --> 00:38:36,039
you've mentioned ag tech.

1368
00:38:36,219 --> 00:38:37,059
And when we look at,

1369
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:38,519
and I think this is something

1370
00:38:38,500 --> 00:38:41,250
that for us as growers, many of

1371
00:38:41,250 --> 00:38:42,050
us can appreciate,

1372
00:38:42,909 --> 00:38:45,210
is we look at the ag tech space

1373
00:38:45,210 --> 00:38:47,329
and ag tech is a

1374
00:38:47,679 --> 00:38:48,920
mass cemetery.

1375
00:38:49,619 --> 00:38:51,800
It is a graveyard of enterprises

1376
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:52,600
that

1377
00:38:52,900 --> 00:38:55,559
had a certain degree of hubris

1378
00:38:55,559 --> 00:38:57,809
and thought they understood what

1379
00:38:57,809 --> 00:38:58,969
the customer was looking for

1380
00:38:58,969 --> 00:39:00,269
without really understanding the

1381
00:39:00,269 --> 00:39:01,150
customer, without really

1382
00:39:01,150 --> 00:39:02,050
understanding growers.

1383
00:39:02,940 --> 00:39:03,920
When I look at the number of

1384
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:05,139
these ag tech companies

1385
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:09,099
that don't have limited

1386
00:39:09,099 --> 00:39:10,239
interaction with growers, they

1387
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,119
don't have a grower on an

1388
00:39:12,119 --> 00:39:14,179
advisory board or somehow

1389
00:39:14,179 --> 00:39:15,739
involved in their organization,

1390
00:39:17,329 --> 00:39:19,150
we see

1391
00:39:19,869 --> 00:39:21,489
just a great deal of

1392
00:39:21,489 --> 00:39:22,289
enterprises,

1393
00:39:22,710 --> 00:39:23,510
a large proportion of

1394
00:39:23,449 --> 00:39:24,869
enterprises and some very good

1395
00:39:24,869 --> 00:39:25,769
ideas that

1396
00:39:26,210 --> 00:39:27,949
in essence were stillborn

1397
00:39:27,949 --> 00:39:29,510
because of not closely enough

1398
00:39:29,510 --> 00:39:30,750
understanding what

1399
00:39:31,119 --> 00:39:32,500
their customer needed.

1400
00:39:33,309 --> 00:39:34,610
Where do you see the analogs

1401
00:39:34,610 --> 00:39:35,610
between that type of

1402
00:39:35,610 --> 00:39:36,410
environment,

1403
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,480
those types of development and

1404
00:39:39,789 --> 00:39:41,210
growers and

1405
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:42,640
the way that growers are

1406
00:39:42,599 --> 00:39:43,400
pursuing marketing?

1407
00:39:43,539 --> 00:39:44,639
That's one question.

1408
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:46,059
And the second question is,

1409
00:39:46,670 --> 00:39:47,750
you have the benefit of an

1410
00:39:47,750 --> 00:39:49,090
outside perspective that's been

1411
00:39:49,090 --> 00:39:50,090
developed more recently.

1412
00:39:50,590 --> 00:39:51,650
What do you see

1413
00:39:52,079 --> 00:39:53,340
happening in the future of the

1414
00:39:53,340 --> 00:39:54,659
ag tech space over the course of

1415
00:39:54,659 --> 00:39:55,659
the next half a dozen years?

1416
00:39:58,179 --> 00:39:59,719
Very pertinent question.

1417
00:40:00,099 --> 00:40:01,860
And it's something which has got

1418
00:40:01,860 --> 00:40:03,760
people at a much higher level

1419
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:05,579
than me within ag tech or deeper

1420
00:40:05,579 --> 00:40:07,300
knowledge of ag tech scratching

1421
00:40:07,300 --> 00:40:10,019
their heads for the very reasons

1422
00:40:10,019 --> 00:40:10,820
that you state.

1423
00:40:11,099 --> 00:40:12,739
And I'll cover those as I

1424
00:40:12,739 --> 00:40:14,280
express what I'm about to say.

1425
00:40:14,900 --> 00:40:16,119
The other reason is the

1426
00:40:16,119 --> 00:40:17,880
difficulty of getting hold of

1427
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:19,800
finance and investment, because

1428
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:21,820
it takes a lot of money to bring

1429
00:40:21,820 --> 00:40:23,760
these solutions to the table and

1430
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:25,260
then to implement them,

1431
00:40:25,650 --> 00:40:27,110
to build them, implement them,

1432
00:40:27,170 --> 00:40:28,909
and then engage with, in this

1433
00:40:28,909 --> 00:40:30,489
case, we're talking ag tech,

1434
00:40:30,730 --> 00:40:32,389
with these farm operations,

1435
00:40:32,969 --> 00:40:36,329
whether you're a big corporation

1436
00:40:36,329 --> 00:40:38,289
or a medium, small -sized farm.

1437
00:40:38,769 --> 00:40:40,590
Now, that having been said,

1438
00:40:40,849 --> 00:40:42,409
we've gone through, I mentioned

1439
00:40:42,409 --> 00:40:43,449
the industrial revolution.

1440
00:40:43,570 --> 00:40:45,469
I'm from a town called Oldham in

1441
00:40:45,469 --> 00:40:46,550
the northwest of England.

1442
00:40:46,949 --> 00:40:48,130
What's the relevance of that?

1443
00:40:48,250 --> 00:40:49,190
Well, it's the birth, the

1444
00:40:49,190 --> 00:40:50,730
northwest of England was the

1445
00:40:50,730 --> 00:40:52,070
birthplace of the industrial

1446
00:40:52,070 --> 00:40:52,870
revolution.

1447
00:40:53,349 --> 00:40:54,789
It's quite a while back now,

1448
00:40:55,769 --> 00:40:56,570
but

1449
00:40:56,329 --> 00:40:58,150
the northwest of England, which

1450
00:40:58,150 --> 00:41:00,349
was that birthplace, it was all

1451
00:41:00,349 --> 00:41:01,789
about innovation and it was

1452
00:41:01,789 --> 00:41:03,409
allied to investment.

1453
00:41:03,610 --> 00:41:05,170
You have to have the two to make

1454
00:41:05,170 --> 00:41:06,130
it come to the four.

1455
00:41:06,579 --> 00:41:09,500
that created a lot of new

1456
00:41:09,500 --> 00:41:12,780
systems, new machines that

1457
00:41:12,780 --> 00:41:14,860
revolutionized the planet as we

1458
00:41:14,860 --> 00:41:16,480
know it. Some of the unintended

1459
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:17,880
consequences of that weren't

1460
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:19,739
necessarily beneficial, but it

1461
00:41:19,739 --> 00:41:20,820
did take the

1462
00:41:21,710 --> 00:41:23,889
the way that we operated in a

1463
00:41:23,889 --> 00:41:25,909
business perspective in a

1464
00:41:25,909 --> 00:41:27,389
completely different direction.

1465
00:41:27,949 --> 00:41:29,469
The complacency that came in

1466
00:41:29,469 --> 00:41:30,550
behind that and the lack of

1467
00:41:30,550 --> 00:41:32,389
innovation led to the northwest

1468
00:41:32,389 --> 00:41:33,909
of England now being an

1469
00:41:33,909 --> 00:41:34,969
industrial wasteland.

1470
00:41:35,429 --> 00:41:37,110
So again, we're sort of looking

1471
00:41:37,110 --> 00:41:38,170
at that from an agricultural

1472
00:41:38,170 --> 00:41:39,210
perspective now,

1473
00:41:39,530 --> 00:41:40,769
is that this is the way we've

1474
00:41:40,769 --> 00:41:41,690
always done things.

1475
00:41:41,949 --> 00:41:43,030
The ones that are going to

1476
00:41:43,030 --> 00:41:45,489
survive and prosper will have to

1477
00:41:45,489 --> 00:41:48,130
move into this innovation phase

1478
00:41:48,130 --> 00:41:50,469
again. And I refer to this a

1479
00:41:50,469 --> 00:41:51,630
lot, Jonny. You've heard me say

1480
00:41:51,630 --> 00:41:52,430
this is the

1481
00:41:52,659 --> 00:41:54,519
future of farming.

1482
00:41:54,739 --> 00:41:56,679
Eagle will soar on two wings.

1483
00:41:57,159 --> 00:42:00,380
This is my firm belief and feel

1484
00:42:00,380 --> 00:42:01,780
behind this. One is regenerative

1485
00:42:01,780 --> 00:42:02,960
agriculture. One wing is

1486
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:04,079
regenerative agriculture,

1487
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:05,179
regenerative organic.

1488
00:42:06,599 --> 00:42:08,440
And the other one is ag tech and

1489
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:09,240
AI.

1490
00:42:09,679 --> 00:42:11,239
And by ag tech, we're talking

1491
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:12,039
about precision.

1492
00:42:12,159 --> 00:42:13,559
Ag tech is known as precision

1493
00:42:13,559 --> 00:42:14,360
agriculture.

1494
00:42:14,659 --> 00:42:16,159
And biologicals.

1495
00:42:16,260 --> 00:42:17,579
So without wishing to go into

1496
00:42:17,579 --> 00:42:18,920
too much detail there, anything

1497
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:20,039
that looks like an autonomous

1498
00:42:20,039 --> 00:42:21,400
vehicle, robotics,

1499
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,960
harvesters, pickers, and

1500
00:42:26,710 --> 00:42:28,030
sprayers of all different

1501
00:42:28,030 --> 00:42:29,429
dimensions. We've got drones

1502
00:42:29,429 --> 00:42:30,630
coming in now, you've got

1503
00:42:30,630 --> 00:42:31,809
satellites, there's a whole

1504
00:42:31,809 --> 00:42:34,230
smorgasbord of innovation that's

1505
00:42:34,230 --> 00:42:35,030
come into,

1506
00:42:35,510 --> 00:42:36,590
or has been presented into

1507
00:42:36,590 --> 00:42:38,489
agriculture over the last decade

1508
00:42:38,489 --> 00:42:40,110
and that's speeding up as

1509
00:42:40,110 --> 00:42:41,289
technology increases,

1510
00:42:41,449 --> 00:42:43,670
particularly now that they all

1511
00:42:43,670 --> 00:42:44,470
see,

1512
00:42:44,610 --> 00:42:47,030
you could say the old pervasive

1513
00:42:47,030 --> 00:42:49,010
AI has come in.

1514
00:42:49,389 --> 00:42:51,510
What we've seen, and I speak a

1515
00:42:51,510 --> 00:42:53,349
lot with people who are a lot

1516
00:42:53,349 --> 00:42:55,940
more tied into this out in the

1517
00:42:55,940 --> 00:42:57,460
West. There's an organization

1518
00:42:57,460 --> 00:42:58,420
called Western Growers

1519
00:42:58,420 --> 00:42:59,220
Association.

1520
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:00,280
They've got an innovation

1521
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:01,080
division.

1522
00:43:01,460 --> 00:43:02,599
And what they've explained to

1523
00:43:02,599 --> 00:43:03,480
me, and I've seen this through

1524
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,480
my own eyes and research now, is

1525
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,659
that the investment that was

1526
00:43:07,659 --> 00:43:09,880
fueling that kind of fell off a

1527
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:11,199
cliff in 2022.

1528
00:43:11,699 --> 00:43:13,420
It was a huge upsurge in

1529
00:43:13,420 --> 00:43:14,900
investment because people, the

1530
00:43:14,900 --> 00:43:16,699
VCs, particularly the PEs, saw a

1531
00:43:16,699 --> 00:43:19,059
huge opportunity to make money

1532
00:43:19,059 --> 00:43:20,619
in that specific area.

1533
00:43:20,929 --> 00:43:22,670
However, it's been a lot more

1534
00:43:22,670 --> 00:43:24,289
difficult than people initially

1535
00:43:24,289 --> 00:43:26,269
assumed, as they have a tendency

1536
00:43:26,269 --> 00:43:27,070
to do.

1537
00:43:27,409 --> 00:43:29,349
And as AI has come to the fore,

1538
00:43:29,610 --> 00:43:30,969
it sucked a lot of the

1539
00:43:30,969 --> 00:43:32,670
investment globally out of many

1540
00:43:32,670 --> 00:43:34,110
areas. And one of those has been

1541
00:43:34,110 --> 00:43:34,910
ag tech.

1542
00:43:35,769 --> 00:43:37,309
One of the key things you

1543
00:43:37,309 --> 00:43:39,190
touched on this for that moving

1544
00:43:39,190 --> 00:43:40,750
forward, it has to be, again,

1545
00:43:40,889 --> 00:43:41,690
I'm very much into

1546
00:43:41,670 --> 00:43:43,469
collaborations and coalitions,

1547
00:43:43,650 --> 00:43:44,450
cooperatives.

1548
00:43:45,309 --> 00:43:46,110
The farmers,

1549
00:43:46,690 --> 00:43:48,090
if we are to move forward into

1550
00:43:48,090 --> 00:43:50,369
this new bright world of AI and

1551
00:43:50,369 --> 00:43:52,949
ag tech need to be part of the

1552
00:43:52,949 --> 00:43:53,750
conversation.

1553
00:43:54,389 --> 00:43:55,889
They can't be force fed into

1554
00:43:55,889 --> 00:43:56,690
this.

1555
00:43:56,710 --> 00:43:58,389
We're all change resistant

1556
00:43:58,389 --> 00:43:59,590
creatures individually.

1557
00:43:59,989 --> 00:44:02,369
We are as a species with farming

1558
00:44:02,369 --> 00:44:03,829
operations. They're multi

1559
00:44:03,829 --> 00:44:04,630
generational.

1560
00:44:05,010 --> 00:44:06,570
So the certain things that

1561
00:44:06,570 --> 00:44:07,690
they've been doing on that farm

1562
00:44:07,690 --> 00:44:08,630
that they'll have been doing for

1563
00:44:08,630 --> 00:44:10,110
decades and generations

1564
00:44:10,619 --> 00:44:12,000
you've got to therefore go in

1565
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:13,219
and explain to them the

1566
00:44:13,219 --> 00:44:14,179
benefits. It's like we're

1567
00:44:14,179 --> 00:44:15,199
talking about with marketing and

1568
00:44:15,199 --> 00:44:16,000
business development.

1569
00:44:16,260 --> 00:44:17,440
What are the benefits to that

1570
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:18,659
farmer and to that farm

1571
00:44:18,659 --> 00:44:19,460
operation?

1572
00:44:19,659 --> 00:44:20,980
How can that improve their

1573
00:44:20,980 --> 00:44:21,780
profitability?

1574
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:23,599
How can it reduce the manpower

1575
00:44:23,599 --> 00:44:26,300
needs? How can it reduce the

1576
00:44:26,300 --> 00:44:27,440
costs of their operation?

1577
00:44:28,090 --> 00:44:29,269
These things are not fully

1578
00:44:29,269 --> 00:44:30,210
explained. You're not going to

1579
00:44:30,210 --> 00:44:31,829
get a farmer buy into that.

1580
00:44:32,289 --> 00:44:33,269
And then it needs to be this

1581
00:44:33,269 --> 00:44:34,710
collaborative approach of how

1582
00:44:34,710 --> 00:44:36,329
you build these two things out.

1583
00:44:37,250 --> 00:44:38,429
Well, I think there's also,

1584
00:44:39,769 --> 00:44:42,989
in many cases in the ag tech

1585
00:44:42,989 --> 00:44:44,289
community, there has been a

1586
00:44:44,289 --> 00:44:45,489
fundamental failure to

1587
00:44:45,489 --> 00:44:47,469
understand how complex and how

1588
00:44:47,469 --> 00:44:48,690
multi -dimensional

1589
00:44:49,170 --> 00:44:52,030
a farming operation really is

1590
00:44:52,030 --> 00:44:53,869
and what is really required to

1591
00:44:53,869 --> 00:44:54,889
implement something

1592
00:44:54,889 --> 00:44:55,690
successfully.

1593
00:44:57,219 --> 00:45:00,039
just from an efficiency and a

1594
00:45:00,039 --> 00:45:01,599
timing perspective and the

1595
00:45:01,599 --> 00:45:03,039
narrow windows of opportunity,

1596
00:45:03,219 --> 00:45:04,079
of timing, expediency.

1597
00:45:05,389 --> 00:45:08,170
Agriculture is perceived as

1598
00:45:08,420 --> 00:45:11,920
slow adopters of technology and

1599
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:13,800
has been historically.

1600
00:45:14,300 --> 00:45:16,079
And I think the very reasonable

1601
00:45:16,079 --> 00:45:17,340
and the very good argument for

1602
00:45:17,340 --> 00:45:19,059
that is because they've

1603
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:20,559
historically been such a small

1604
00:45:20,559 --> 00:45:21,360
market segment

1605
00:45:22,050 --> 00:45:25,030
that the various

1606
00:45:25,030 --> 00:45:25,830
technologies,

1607
00:45:25,969 --> 00:45:27,050
software solutions, et cetera,

1608
00:45:27,070 --> 00:45:28,329
that were developed for them

1609
00:45:29,030 --> 00:45:30,570
were not a good fit.

1610
00:45:30,949 --> 00:45:32,409
They were developed, I mean,

1611
00:45:33,179 --> 00:45:33,980
we don't,

1612
00:45:34,670 --> 00:45:35,909
outside of agriculture,

1613
00:45:36,710 --> 00:45:38,389
I think if you ask the average

1614
00:45:38,389 --> 00:45:41,019
software engineer which

1615
00:45:41,019 --> 00:45:43,320
business is the most difficult

1616
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,530
to develop an ERP

1617
00:45:46,530 --> 00:45:47,330
system for,

1618
00:45:47,849 --> 00:45:49,969
a farm growing produce or a

1619
00:45:49,969 --> 00:45:51,269
furniture manufacturing facility

1620
00:45:51,269 --> 00:45:52,510
with 1 ,500 employees,

1621
00:45:53,010 --> 00:45:54,110
they would say the furniture

1622
00:45:54,110 --> 00:45:55,190
facility is probably the most

1623
00:45:55,190 --> 00:45:55,990
difficult.

1624
00:45:55,909 --> 00:45:56,989
But in fact, it's the farming

1625
00:45:56,989 --> 00:45:59,050
operation where there are more

1626
00:45:59,050 --> 00:45:59,969
moving parts

1627
00:46:00,519 --> 00:46:02,460
more multidimensionality, more

1628
00:46:02,460 --> 00:46:04,400
variables in play than

1629
00:46:04,769 --> 00:46:06,320
there are. with a large complex

1630
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:07,900
manufacturing facility one is

1631
00:46:07,900 --> 00:46:09,579
perceived to be more complex but

1632
00:46:09,579 --> 00:46:10,980
the other is an actual fact a

1633
00:46:10,980 --> 00:46:11,820
lot more complex.

1634
00:46:12,900 --> 00:46:13,700
So

1635
00:46:13,869 --> 00:46:15,449
there's there's multiple

1636
00:46:15,449 --> 00:46:16,289
dimensions there but

1637
00:46:16,599 --> 00:46:18,579
you mentioned the

1638
00:46:19,050 --> 00:46:21,030
all pervasive AI was the phrase

1639
00:46:21,030 --> 00:46:21,830
that you used

1640
00:46:22,219 --> 00:46:23,699
and in

1641
00:46:24,019 --> 00:46:26,300
the conversations that you and i

1642
00:46:26,300 --> 00:46:28,280
have had over the last several

1643
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:29,260
years as we've learned to know

1644
00:46:29,260 --> 00:46:30,079
each other you have.

1645
00:46:30,679 --> 00:46:31,940
I think of all the people that

1646
00:46:31,940 --> 00:46:33,460
I've interacted with, you are on

1647
00:46:33,460 --> 00:46:35,340
a short list of probably the top

1648
00:46:35,340 --> 00:46:37,159
dozen people who've used AI

1649
00:46:37,599 --> 00:46:39,980
more intensely than

1650
00:46:40,449 --> 00:46:42,110
most people have.

1651
00:46:42,230 --> 00:46:43,929
You're not an average AI user.

1652
00:46:44,050 --> 00:46:45,030
And so I'd like to ask you the

1653
00:46:45,030 --> 00:46:45,830
question,

1654
00:46:45,849 --> 00:46:47,960
because there are many people in

1655
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:50,440
the farming community who

1656
00:46:50,809 --> 00:46:52,510
they don't get it.

1657
00:46:52,610 --> 00:46:53,889
They don't get what the hype is

1658
00:46:53,889 --> 00:46:54,690
all about.

1659
00:46:55,159 --> 00:46:56,500
And I think this is true not

1660
00:46:56,500 --> 00:46:57,679
just in farming community, but

1661
00:46:57,679 --> 00:46:58,880
of consumers in general.

1662
00:46:59,599 --> 00:47:01,280
They use one of these large

1663
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:03,199
engines like chachi pt or gemini

1664
00:47:03,199 --> 00:47:05,659
or grock and they ask it a

1665
00:47:05,659 --> 00:47:06,659
couple of questions and

1666
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:08,519
it's it's a cool tool

1667
00:47:09,030 --> 00:47:10,670
it produces some interesting

1668
00:47:10,670 --> 00:47:12,170
results for them but they don't

1669
00:47:12,170 --> 00:47:15,239
really understand what they

1670
00:47:15,650 --> 00:47:17,610
haven't observed and experience

1671
00:47:17,610 --> 00:47:19,619
the value that people are

1672
00:47:19,619 --> 00:47:21,460
talking about so i'd like to get

1673
00:47:21,460 --> 00:47:23,579
your perspective how how are you

1674
00:47:23,579 --> 00:47:25,760
using ai and how are you getting

1675
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:27,280
ai to work for you.

1676
00:47:29,530 --> 00:47:32,409
OK, this is the key point of the

1677
00:47:32,409 --> 00:47:33,550
moment, as I said, the

1678
00:47:33,550 --> 00:47:35,269
pervasiveness

1679
00:47:35,610 --> 00:47:37,949
of AI in all aspects of our

1680
00:47:37,949 --> 00:47:39,829
society now and culture.

1681
00:47:40,730 --> 00:47:41,829
And the confusion, there's a lot

1682
00:47:41,829 --> 00:47:42,989
of excitement around it, but

1683
00:47:42,989 --> 00:47:44,489
there's a lot of confusion and

1684
00:47:44,489 --> 00:47:45,409
fear behind it.

1685
00:47:45,510 --> 00:47:47,250
As far as farming is concerned,

1686
00:47:47,389 --> 00:47:48,570
as far as agriculture is

1687
00:47:48,570 --> 00:47:50,829
concerned, I'm unequivocal about

1688
00:47:50,829 --> 00:47:54,019
this. I see AI as a farm ally, a

1689
00:47:54,019 --> 00:47:56,019
very valuable farm ally.

1690
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,420
If it's applied and utilized and

1691
00:47:59,420 --> 00:48:00,220
therefore understood

1692
00:48:00,550 --> 00:48:02,969
and trained primarily

1693
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:04,080
first.

1694
00:48:05,900 --> 00:48:07,360
You and I have had this

1695
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:08,679
conversation over the years.

1696
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:10,320
I've had the conversation with

1697
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:11,579
Gabe and Understanding Ag and

1698
00:48:11,579 --> 00:48:13,440
many other suppliers of

1699
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:16,880
agronomic support for farmers in

1700
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:17,680
the field.

1701
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:19,619
There's what I call a bandwidth

1702
00:48:19,619 --> 00:48:21,679
bottleneck in agronomy,

1703
00:48:22,039 --> 00:48:22,860
and it's real.

1704
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:25,380
There's only so many highly

1705
00:48:25,380 --> 00:48:28,219
qualified agronomists,

1706
00:48:28,619 --> 00:48:30,880
certainly from a regenerative

1707
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:32,400
and organic perspective,

1708
00:48:32,869 --> 00:48:35,670
who are trained and educated and

1709
00:48:35,670 --> 00:48:37,010
have that skill set.

1710
00:48:37,309 --> 00:48:38,610
It's an art and as with

1711
00:48:38,610 --> 00:48:39,730
everything in life, particularly

1712
00:48:39,730 --> 00:48:41,969
farming, it's both a science and

1713
00:48:41,969 --> 00:48:42,769
an art.

1714
00:48:42,989 --> 00:48:45,889
There are not that many people

1715
00:48:45,889 --> 00:48:48,010
out there who can tap into the

1716
00:48:48,010 --> 00:48:51,139
demand that's real and needs

1717
00:48:51,579 --> 00:48:52,420
to be satisfied.

1718
00:48:52,860 --> 00:48:54,460
So how do we overcome that?

1719
00:48:54,900 --> 00:48:55,700
Well,

1720
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:57,360
you very astutely and I remember

1721
00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:58,639
this conversation with you two

1722
00:48:58,639 --> 00:48:59,440
years ago,

1723
00:48:59,619 --> 00:49:01,539
came up with feel like it wasn't

1724
00:49:01,539 --> 00:49:03,059
called feel like feel like at

1725
00:49:03,059 --> 00:49:04,659
the time you created something

1726
00:49:04,659 --> 00:49:06,420
which is for one of a better

1727
00:49:06,420 --> 00:49:07,800
phrase agronomic AI.

1728
00:49:08,750 --> 00:49:11,050
And I see that as being highly

1729
00:49:11,050 --> 00:49:12,929
valuable and useful because it

1730
00:49:12,929 --> 00:49:14,429
compresses it has the potential

1731
00:49:14,429 --> 00:49:16,210
to compress decades of

1732
00:49:16,210 --> 00:49:17,230
regenerative knowledge.

1733
00:49:17,710 --> 00:49:19,510
that all the knowledge, not just

1734
00:49:19,510 --> 00:49:21,750
that John Kent puts into this or

1735
00:49:21,750 --> 00:49:23,550
a Gabe Brown or a Keith Burns,

1736
00:49:23,730 --> 00:49:25,670
we could, I could quote all the

1737
00:49:25,670 --> 00:49:26,849
Olympian gods of the

1738
00:49:26,849 --> 00:49:27,869
regenerative movement.

1739
00:49:28,409 --> 00:49:29,730
What would it be like if we

1740
00:49:29,730 --> 00:49:31,849
could download the knowledge,

1741
00:49:31,989 --> 00:49:33,289
the experience,

1742
00:49:33,650 --> 00:49:36,789
the foresight into some form of

1743
00:49:38,639 --> 00:49:40,719
machine that could compress that

1744
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:42,539
down and make that available,

1745
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:44,519
readily available in different

1746
00:49:44,519 --> 00:49:46,420
formats under different contexts

1747
00:49:46,420 --> 00:49:47,800
for farm operators.

1748
00:49:48,300 --> 00:49:50,039
How valuable and useful would

1749
00:49:50,039 --> 00:49:50,840
that be?

1750
00:49:50,980 --> 00:49:53,829
But it needs to be compressed

1751
00:49:53,829 --> 00:49:54,789
into

1752
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:56,699
that's actionable.

1753
00:49:57,320 --> 00:49:58,539
first principle answers.

1754
00:49:58,820 --> 00:50:00,079
So, what to check, why it

1755
00:50:00,079 --> 00:50:01,599
matters, what's the next best

1756
00:50:01,599 --> 00:50:03,199
step, if it can give that level

1757
00:50:03,199 --> 00:50:04,000
of guidance.

1758
00:50:04,639 --> 00:50:06,500
So, use cases that I see

1759
00:50:06,500 --> 00:50:09,320
practical for that I've used

1760
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:11,239
that within Union Grove Farm,

1761
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:12,400
I've had this conversation

1762
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:14,159
growingly with other farmers

1763
00:50:14,159 --> 00:50:15,159
now, we've got an interest

1764
00:50:15,159 --> 00:50:16,739
behind it, but have been

1765
00:50:16,739 --> 00:50:17,980
confused by it, don't know how

1766
00:50:17,980 --> 00:50:18,880
to best apply it.

1767
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:20,380
You could do something like

1768
00:50:20,380 --> 00:50:22,699
triage in a leaf symptom before

1769
00:50:22,699 --> 00:50:24,559
it becomes a spray and pray

1770
00:50:24,559 --> 00:50:25,360
week.

1771
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:26,599
tightening irrigation,

1772
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:29,699
nutrition decisions on what to

1773
00:50:29,699 --> 00:50:31,380
spray and how to spray it, when

1774
00:50:31,380 --> 00:50:32,180
to spray it,

1775
00:50:32,559 --> 00:50:34,099
building up a written reasoning

1776
00:50:34,099 --> 00:50:35,519
trail that you can review with

1777
00:50:35,519 --> 00:50:36,320
your agronomist.

1778
00:50:36,599 --> 00:50:37,679
So we're not replacing

1779
00:50:37,679 --> 00:50:40,320
agronomists. You can't ever beat

1780
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:42,360
a shovel in the ground, a shovel

1781
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:44,519
in the soil. You can't beat that

1782
00:50:44,519 --> 00:50:46,579
boots on the ground approach to

1783
00:50:46,579 --> 00:50:47,619
farming. That's never going to

1784
00:50:47,619 --> 00:50:48,420
go away.

1785
00:50:48,579 --> 00:50:50,139
But as I see, it's not replacing

1786
00:50:50,139 --> 00:50:52,449
judgment. It's the potential to

1787
00:50:52,449 --> 00:50:55,110
speed and augment good judgment.

1788
00:50:56,380 --> 00:50:57,539
But like all tools,

1789
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:00,139
systems, and processes, as we've

1790
00:51:00,139 --> 00:51:01,239
discussed, they need to be

1791
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:02,320
learned and understood before

1792
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:03,380
they're optimally applied.

1793
00:51:04,059 --> 00:51:06,340
So that's where I see AI coming

1794
00:51:06,340 --> 00:51:09,059
to the fore now, is learning it

1795
00:51:09,059 --> 00:51:11,380
and being taught and trained on

1796
00:51:11,380 --> 00:51:12,460
it, like you would if you were

1797
00:51:12,460 --> 00:51:14,059
given, first time you were given

1798
00:51:14,059 --> 00:51:15,420
a tractor, first time you were

1799
00:51:15,420 --> 00:51:18,239
given a satellite link

1800
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:19,400
tractor.

1801
00:51:20,139 --> 00:51:22,699
You had to be trained by that.

1802
00:51:22,780 --> 00:51:25,059
You didn't just jump in the cab

1803
00:51:25,059 --> 00:51:26,840
and drive it. The same applies

1804
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:27,640
to AI.

1805
00:51:28,019 --> 00:51:29,260
Yes, you can jump on and use

1806
00:51:29,260 --> 00:51:31,179
chat and GTP or Google or

1807
00:51:31,179 --> 00:51:32,940
whichever one your preference

1808
00:51:32,940 --> 00:51:34,800
is. But if you really want to

1809
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:36,280
optimize it, you need to have an

1810
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:37,519
understanding of what the system

1811
00:51:37,519 --> 00:51:39,019
is and then how it applies to

1812
00:51:39,019 --> 00:51:40,320
you. The six principles,

1813
00:51:41,079 --> 00:51:42,119
for those of us who know

1814
00:51:42,119 --> 00:51:43,159
regenerative agriculture,

1815
00:51:44,059 --> 00:51:45,619
there are six principles within

1816
00:51:45,619 --> 00:51:47,500
that. The number one primary

1817
00:51:47,500 --> 00:51:48,900
principle, which is of the most

1818
00:51:48,900 --> 00:51:50,099
importance, is content.

1819
00:51:50,550 --> 00:51:51,929
So what's the context of your

1820
00:51:51,929 --> 00:51:53,349
farm? What are you growing?

1821
00:51:53,469 --> 00:51:54,269
Where are you growing it?

1822
00:51:54,289 --> 00:51:55,190
How are you growing it?

1823
00:51:55,710 --> 00:51:57,289
Understand those, and then

1824
00:51:57,289 --> 00:51:58,750
understand how you can take that

1825
00:51:58,750 --> 00:52:01,809
context and plug that into AI to

1826
00:52:01,809 --> 00:52:03,849
be an ally to what you're

1827
00:52:03,849 --> 00:52:04,769
seeking to achieve.

1828
00:52:05,670 --> 00:52:07,730
It will take time, the more time

1829
00:52:07,730 --> 00:52:09,070
and practice you can put into

1830
00:52:09,070 --> 00:52:10,449
this and certainly working with

1831
00:52:10,449 --> 00:52:13,570
people like AEA and

1832
00:52:13,570 --> 00:52:15,289
yourself with field art, the

1833
00:52:15,289 --> 00:52:16,590
more benefit we're going to see

1834
00:52:16,590 --> 00:52:17,730
this coming out and then we need

1835
00:52:17,730 --> 00:52:18,849
to create a success stories.

1836
00:52:19,250 --> 00:52:20,050
It's a show and tell.

1837
00:52:21,059 --> 00:52:22,139
People are going to be dubious

1838
00:52:22,139 --> 00:52:23,179
initially. They're going to be

1839
00:52:23,179 --> 00:52:24,239
confused by it.

1840
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:25,940
So if we can show them successes

1841
00:52:25,940 --> 00:52:27,199
that have been driven by that,

1842
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:28,239
and I'm working with a number of

1843
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:29,619
farms at the moment utilizing

1844
00:52:29,619 --> 00:52:31,880
AI, and it surprised them what

1845
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:32,680
it delivers.

1846
00:52:33,219 --> 00:52:34,380
And then you take that

1847
00:52:34,380 --> 00:52:35,840
information, and as you do with

1848
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:37,639
any good farming operation, you

1849
00:52:37,639 --> 00:52:38,539
trial it.

1850
00:52:38,699 --> 00:52:40,400
You go out there and you test

1851
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:43,539
pilot it and do pilot plots and

1852
00:52:43,539 --> 00:52:45,320
trial it and see how it delivers

1853
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:47,079
the information into actionable

1854
00:52:47,079 --> 00:52:48,659
insights and deliverable

1855
00:52:48,659 --> 00:52:49,460
actions.

1856
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:51,000
So can you give us some

1857
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:51,800
examples?

1858
00:52:52,059 --> 00:52:54,159
Can you give us examples of

1859
00:52:54,570 --> 00:52:56,650
how you are?

1860
00:52:57,349 --> 00:52:59,210
You're what I would consider a

1861
00:52:59,210 --> 00:53:00,010
power user.

1862
00:53:00,210 --> 00:53:02,050
How are you training AI?

1863
00:53:02,900 --> 00:53:04,420
And then what are the results

1864
00:53:04,420 --> 00:53:05,719
and what are the outcomes of

1865
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:06,519
that

1866
00:53:07,539 --> 00:53:10,199
that are different from an

1867
00:53:10,199 --> 00:53:11,539
untrained AI, let's say?

1868
00:53:15,110 --> 00:53:16,769
Well, as I said earlier, it

1869
00:53:16,769 --> 00:53:17,570
depends what you're doing.

1870
00:53:17,750 --> 00:53:20,329
One of the primary goals for the

1871
00:53:20,329 --> 00:53:22,650
farm operation that I've been

1872
00:53:24,130 --> 00:53:25,869
operational director of over the

1873
00:53:25,869 --> 00:53:26,690
last seven years.

1874
00:53:26,809 --> 00:53:28,050
We referenced it at the start as

1875
00:53:28,050 --> 00:53:29,070
Union Grove Farm.

1876
00:53:29,429 --> 00:53:30,610
We are growing,

1877
00:53:31,210 --> 00:53:32,590
are in the process of growing.

1878
00:53:32,750 --> 00:53:34,309
We're about 100 acres now.

1879
00:53:34,429 --> 00:53:35,710
We're aiming, aspiring to be 1

1880
00:53:35,710 --> 00:53:36,510
,000 acres.

1881
00:53:38,820 --> 00:53:40,260
This ties in with marketing.

1882
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:41,260
It ties in with business

1883
00:53:41,260 --> 00:53:42,820
development. It ties in with AI.

1884
00:53:43,119 --> 00:53:45,019
What are we seeking to achieve?

1885
00:53:45,079 --> 00:53:46,500
We're seeking to become the

1886
00:53:46,500 --> 00:53:48,199
biggest and best and most

1887
00:53:48,199 --> 00:53:50,119
regenerative health -focused

1888
00:53:50,119 --> 00:53:52,360
table grape operator, not just

1889
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:53,940
on the East Coast, which is a

1890
00:53:53,940 --> 00:53:55,920
little bit of an outlier in

1891
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:56,720
itself.

1892
00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:00,099
95 % to 98 % of the table

1893
00:54:00,099 --> 00:54:01,599
grapes that are grown in this

1894
00:54:01,599 --> 00:54:02,599
country, not wine,

1895
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:04,280
table grapes that you buy in a

1896
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:06,139
retailer or in a store, are

1897
00:54:06,139 --> 00:54:06,980
grown in California,

1898
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:08,780
probably at the Central Valley.

1899
00:54:09,949 --> 00:54:12,230
We are looking to become the

1900
00:54:12,230 --> 00:54:13,949
East Coast. So the South Face

1901
00:54:13,949 --> 00:54:15,690
and then the East Coast biggest

1902
00:54:15,690 --> 00:54:17,590
deliverer of table grapes.

1903
00:54:17,869 --> 00:54:19,150
There's a whole plethora of

1904
00:54:19,150 --> 00:54:20,269
benefits behind that.

1905
00:54:20,630 --> 00:54:21,510
What are the prime.

1906
00:54:21,650 --> 00:54:24,659
What was the primary marketable

1907
00:54:24,659 --> 00:54:26,780
part of what we're seeking to

1908
00:54:26,780 --> 00:54:28,920
achieve with our fresh fruit and

1909
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:30,059
freeze dried crops.

1910
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:32,280
health and taste.

1911
00:54:32,940 --> 00:54:36,139
So AI has shown us ways how we

1912
00:54:36,139 --> 00:54:37,179
can plug in.

1913
00:54:37,519 --> 00:54:38,860
We're still doing the analytics.

1914
00:54:39,199 --> 00:54:40,519
You still got to do your soul

1915
00:54:40,519 --> 00:54:43,739
tests. We still do SAP tests and

1916
00:54:43,739 --> 00:54:45,179
we put that into the system that

1917
00:54:45,179 --> 00:54:47,719
gives us real world finger on

1918
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:48,940
the pulse data.

1919
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:51,460
But the difference between

1920
00:54:51,460 --> 00:54:53,079
having that data and either

1921
00:54:53,079 --> 00:54:54,599
handballing it or going through

1922
00:54:54,599 --> 00:54:55,900
the systems that you've got to

1923
00:54:55,900 --> 00:54:57,079
send off and you might wait

1924
00:54:57,079 --> 00:54:58,519
weeks for is you can plug that

1925
00:54:58,519 --> 00:54:59,559
in directly.

1926
00:55:00,039 --> 00:55:01,659
So that suddenly becomes an

1927
00:55:01,659 --> 00:55:03,460
optimal tool for how we can

1928
00:55:03,460 --> 00:55:04,699
optimize bricks.

1929
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:06,179
So we want the highest bricks

1930
00:55:06,179 --> 00:55:07,659
possible, but we're also looking

1931
00:55:07,659 --> 00:55:09,460
at nutrient density and

1932
00:55:09,460 --> 00:55:10,880
phytonutrients, particularly

1933
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:12,639
with our table grapes is

1934
00:55:12,639 --> 00:55:14,039
something called polyphenolics.

1935
00:55:14,500 --> 00:55:16,139
That's what gives it its health

1936
00:55:16,139 --> 00:55:16,940
kick.

1937
00:55:16,820 --> 00:55:19,900
If we can utilize AI to improve

1938
00:55:19,900 --> 00:55:21,639
and increase that, then suddenly

1939
00:55:21,639 --> 00:55:22,900
we've got something which is of

1940
00:55:22,900 --> 00:55:23,700
high value.

1941
00:55:24,039 --> 00:55:25,260
And that's an area that we're

1942
00:55:25,260 --> 00:55:26,760
seeking to move into in the next

1943
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:28,320
few months and years ahead.

1944
00:55:31,059 --> 00:55:31,860
You

1945
00:55:31,829 --> 00:55:33,690
mentioned the challenges and one

1946
00:55:33,690 --> 00:55:35,949
of the original inspirations for

1947
00:55:35,949 --> 00:55:37,949
us in developing FieldLark was

1948
00:55:37,949 --> 00:55:39,590
just this understanding that in

1949
00:55:39,590 --> 00:55:41,639
order to be a very good

1950
00:55:41,639 --> 00:55:43,280
agronomist, particularly a

1951
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:44,239
regenerative agriculture

1952
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:45,940
agronomist, requires such a

1953
00:55:46,159 --> 00:55:49,059
depth and breadth of knowledge.

1954
00:55:49,159 --> 00:55:50,320
And there is so much information

1955
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:51,679
out there that is accessible

1956
00:55:51,679 --> 00:55:52,480
today,

1957
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:54,659
much more accessible with AI

1958
00:55:54,659 --> 00:55:55,960
than it has been previously.

1959
00:55:58,199 --> 00:56:00,639
And it just it takes so much

1960
00:56:00,639 --> 00:56:02,860
time to become a good

1961
00:56:02,860 --> 00:56:04,119
regenerative agriculture

1962
00:56:04,119 --> 00:56:05,300
agronomist because you've taken

1963
00:56:05,300 --> 00:56:06,100
away

1964
00:56:06,230 --> 00:56:08,030
so many or you're seeking to

1965
00:56:08,030 --> 00:56:09,429
remove so many of the easy

1966
00:56:09,429 --> 00:56:10,710
buttons, the easy buttons of

1967
00:56:10,710 --> 00:56:12,329
pesticides and fungicides and so

1968
00:56:12,329 --> 00:56:13,130
forth.

1969
00:56:13,329 --> 00:56:15,710
And so the depth of knowledge

1970
00:56:15,710 --> 00:56:17,730
required to take a proactive

1971
00:56:17,730 --> 00:56:19,849
preventative approach is much

1972
00:56:19,849 --> 00:56:20,650
deeper

1973
00:56:20,820 --> 00:56:23,389
than to take a reactive

1974
00:56:23,389 --> 00:56:24,190
approach.

1975
00:56:24,309 --> 00:56:25,550
And so there's been this

1976
00:56:26,019 --> 00:56:27,579
significant shortage.

1977
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:30,079
It's existed for the last 10

1978
00:56:30,079 --> 00:56:31,099
years and it's just there's a

1979
00:56:31,099 --> 00:56:32,400
growing shortage of

1980
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:34,840
people who are qualified,

1981
00:56:35,079 --> 00:56:36,579
trusted technical advisors who

1982
00:56:36,579 --> 00:56:38,260
have the depth and the quality

1983
00:56:38,260 --> 00:56:39,860
of knowledge and information to

1984
00:56:40,139 --> 00:56:41,000
bring this forward.

1985
00:56:41,119 --> 00:56:41,920
And so

1986
00:56:41,820 --> 00:56:43,360
this was one of the inspirations

1987
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:44,800
for the development of FieldLark

1988
00:56:45,489 --> 00:56:47,769
is to make that information

1989
00:56:48,150 --> 00:56:51,369
accessible to anyone and to kind

1990
00:56:51,369 --> 00:56:53,570
of streamline the

1991
00:56:53,849 --> 00:56:55,949
learning experience, the

1992
00:56:55,949 --> 00:56:57,969
learning journey for agronomists

1993
00:56:57,969 --> 00:57:00,150
and for farmers who want to go

1994
00:57:00,150 --> 00:57:01,809
down a different pathway and to

1995
00:57:01,809 --> 00:57:02,909
encourage

1996
00:57:03,510 --> 00:57:04,789
because I'm completely with you

1997
00:57:04,789 --> 00:57:05,590
that

1998
00:57:05,429 --> 00:57:07,550
we can never, nor should we seek

1999
00:57:07,550 --> 00:57:09,889
to replace people in the field.

2000
00:57:10,170 --> 00:57:10,970
Instead,

2001
00:57:11,110 --> 00:57:13,159
our goal should be to help all

2002
00:57:13,159 --> 00:57:14,280
those people in the field be

2003
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:16,179
better, ask better questions, be

2004
00:57:16,179 --> 00:57:16,980
more observant.

2005
00:57:18,500 --> 00:57:20,380
That's really the inspiration

2006
00:57:20,380 --> 00:57:21,780
where I think FieldArk is going

2007
00:57:21,780 --> 00:57:23,739
to shine. So when I look at that

2008
00:57:23,739 --> 00:57:24,539
from a

2009
00:57:24,869 --> 00:57:26,530
practical application

2010
00:57:26,530 --> 00:57:27,330
perspective,

2011
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:29,280
the

2012
00:57:29,829 --> 00:57:32,989
opportunity is here

2013
00:57:33,530 --> 00:57:34,349
to

2014
00:57:35,559 --> 00:57:36,360
streamline

2015
00:57:37,260 --> 00:57:40,119
the understanding of which modes

2016
00:57:40,119 --> 00:57:41,679
of action, which mechanisms,

2017
00:57:42,119 --> 00:57:43,440
which products,

2018
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:46,320
which ingredients can shift the

2019
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:48,739
needle the most dramatically in

2020
00:57:48,739 --> 00:57:51,199
a given context and in a given

2021
00:57:51,199 --> 00:57:52,000
situation.

2022
00:57:52,389 --> 00:57:53,190
I'd love to get your

2023
00:57:53,150 --> 00:57:53,950
perspective.

2024
00:57:54,070 --> 00:57:54,870
You've used,

2025
00:57:55,889 --> 00:57:57,329
you've been a power user of

2026
00:57:57,329 --> 00:57:58,170
different,

2027
00:57:58,909 --> 00:58:00,949
I believe, different AIs.

2028
00:58:01,539 --> 00:58:02,820
What are the ones that you have

2029
00:58:02,820 --> 00:58:03,620
found

2030
00:58:03,969 --> 00:58:06,940
to offer the most valuable,

2031
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:09,079
to create the most value for you

2032
00:58:09,079 --> 00:58:11,320
as a farm manager, looking at

2033
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:13,139
the agronomy sides, and how have

2034
00:58:13,139 --> 00:58:14,360
you found those to compare to

2035
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:15,160
field work?

2036
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:20,579
All the main ones,

2037
00:58:20,940 --> 00:58:22,199
the key ones that people talk

2038
00:58:22,199 --> 00:58:24,579
about out in the marketplace,

2039
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:25,560
I've tried.

2040
00:58:25,820 --> 00:58:26,940
I could run through them, as you

2041
00:58:26,940 --> 00:58:28,260
said, Google, Grok,

2042
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:33,260
ChatGTP. ChatGTP has stood out

2043
00:58:33,260 --> 00:58:34,320
for me so far.

2044
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:36,420
What I've learned, John, and

2045
00:58:36,420 --> 00:58:38,539
this is the same for FieldLark

2046
00:58:38,539 --> 00:58:39,739
as I've got to know it better,

2047
00:58:40,460 --> 00:58:41,260
is

2048
00:58:41,780 --> 00:58:44,239
as is the old adage, gigo,

2049
00:58:44,460 --> 00:58:46,179
garbage in, garbage out.

2050
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:48,500
It's all dependent on the

2051
00:58:48,500 --> 00:58:51,039
quality of the information that

2052
00:58:51,039 --> 00:58:51,840
you feed in.

2053
00:58:52,289 --> 00:58:54,110
And then the other critical part

2054
00:58:54,110 --> 00:58:55,170
of this, and if you do a little

2055
00:58:55,170 --> 00:58:57,130
bit of research on AI and how to

2056
00:58:57,130 --> 00:58:58,590
get the best out of it, it's the

2057
00:58:58,590 --> 00:58:59,789
quality of the prompt.

2058
00:59:00,030 --> 00:59:01,610
It's the quality of the question

2059
00:59:01,789 --> 00:59:04,070
that you put into that AI.

2060
00:59:04,550 --> 00:59:05,929
So if you ask it a short

2061
00:59:05,929 --> 00:59:07,809
question, you're going to get a

2062
00:59:07,809 --> 00:59:09,269
relatively short,

2063
00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:10,760
undetailed,

2064
00:59:11,219 --> 00:59:12,559
less specific response.

2065
00:59:13,380 --> 00:59:15,400
When I interact with AI,

2066
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:17,800
and again, I'll reference chat

2067
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:19,920
GP50,

2068
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:22,000
and it's worth paying the extra

2069
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:22,800
for.

2070
00:59:22,630 --> 00:59:24,610
pay $30 a month for the pro

2071
00:59:24,610 --> 00:59:25,410
version,

2072
00:59:25,769 --> 00:59:27,349
for the pay version in the same

2073
00:59:27,349 --> 00:59:29,570
way that we pay for feel like as

2074
00:59:29,570 --> 00:59:30,370
well.

2075
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:32,599
is the quality of the answers

2076
00:59:32,599 --> 00:59:33,900
that we get from that is

2077
00:59:33,900 --> 00:59:35,599
specific to the higher level

2078
00:59:35,599 --> 00:59:37,099
detail that we put into it.

2079
00:59:37,579 --> 00:59:39,480
So that's the absolute critical

2080
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:40,480
thing that I would say to

2081
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:42,099
anybody out there is take the

2082
00:59:42,099 --> 00:59:43,659
time and trouble and effort to

2083
00:59:43,659 --> 00:59:45,480
put together almost like a

2084
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:46,659
thesis of what it is you're

2085
00:59:46,659 --> 00:59:47,519
seeking to achieve.

2086
00:59:47,679 --> 00:59:49,460
Over time, what happens, and I'm

2087
00:59:49,460 --> 00:59:50,539
talking about a year, as you

2088
00:59:50,539 --> 00:59:52,280
say, I'm a relatively heavy

2089
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:53,080
user.

2090
00:59:53,250 --> 00:59:56,309
That system gets to know you and

2091
00:59:56,309 --> 00:59:57,809
gets to know your operation.

2092
00:59:58,750 --> 01:00:00,809
So, it's got a memory far better

2093
01:00:00,809 --> 01:00:01,610
than I have.

2094
01:00:02,139 --> 01:00:03,260
I can remember a lot.

2095
01:00:03,380 --> 01:00:04,539
If I don't write it down, if I

2096
01:00:04,539 --> 01:00:05,719
don't reference it, then it's

2097
01:00:05,719 --> 01:00:07,760
not there. With AI over time,

2098
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:09,320
whether it's weeks or months or

2099
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:11,119
years, it remembers everything

2100
01:00:11,119 --> 01:00:12,880
and it can reference that back.

2101
01:00:13,699 --> 01:00:15,179
So, the beautiful thing with

2102
01:00:15,179 --> 01:00:16,360
this is, it's a bit like having

2103
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:18,739
an agronomist. If I paid, as we

2104
01:00:18,739 --> 01:00:20,860
have done, to have, as I say,

2105
01:00:21,019 --> 01:00:22,800
somebody from your organisation

2106
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:24,300
or understanding outcome into

2107
01:00:24,300 --> 01:00:25,980
guide us in a specific area of

2108
01:00:25,980 --> 01:00:26,780
need,

2109
01:00:26,969 --> 01:00:29,230
the quality of the advice and

2110
01:00:29,230 --> 01:00:30,789
guidance is going to be much

2111
01:00:30,789 --> 01:00:32,190
higher when I've had a

2112
01:00:32,190 --> 01:00:33,769
relationship with somebody over

2113
01:00:33,769 --> 01:00:35,429
several months and several years

2114
01:00:35,429 --> 01:00:36,710
than it is to just bring someone

2115
01:00:36,710 --> 01:00:38,090
in from the get -go.

2116
01:00:38,469 --> 01:00:40,429
And that's the key to whichever

2117
01:00:40,429 --> 01:00:42,489
system that you choose, that is

2118
01:00:42,489 --> 01:00:43,929
the absolute key to get the best

2119
01:00:43,929 --> 01:00:45,750
value out of AI.

2120
01:00:46,380 --> 01:00:48,199
That level of detail and that

2121
01:00:48,199 --> 01:00:49,780
level of building an experience

2122
01:00:49,780 --> 01:00:51,139
and a relationship with it.

2123
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:53,160
Yeah.

2124
01:00:54,079 --> 01:00:54,880
Thank you, Martin.

2125
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:56,239
I think this has been my

2126
01:00:56,239 --> 01:00:57,280
experience as well as I've

2127
01:00:57,280 --> 01:00:58,080
played around with it.

2128
01:01:00,059 --> 01:01:00,860
My

2129
01:01:02,019 --> 01:01:03,179
initially, as you're learning

2130
01:01:03,179 --> 01:01:04,710
about it, as you're playing

2131
01:01:04,710 --> 01:01:05,949
around, you discover, you start

2132
01:01:05,949 --> 01:01:07,429
with prompts that are a sentence

2133
01:01:07,429 --> 01:01:09,130
or a couple sentences long, and

2134
01:01:09,130 --> 01:01:10,650
then they go to a paragraph, and

2135
01:01:10,650 --> 01:01:12,250
then they go to 5 paragraphs,

2136
01:01:12,309 --> 01:01:13,230
and then to 10.

2137
01:01:13,610 --> 01:01:14,789
And the reality is that

2138
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:18,389
as as you give it more

2139
01:01:18,389 --> 01:01:20,010
information and give it more

2140
01:01:20,010 --> 01:01:21,650
context and ask more detailed

2141
01:01:21,650 --> 01:01:22,450
questions,

2142
01:01:22,980 --> 01:01:24,820
the quality of the outputs just

2143
01:01:24,820 --> 01:01:26,119
and. you also, the interesting

2144
01:01:26,119 --> 01:01:27,980
thing is that in the way that it

2145
01:01:27,980 --> 01:01:31,239
responds is if you ask a

2146
01:01:31,239 --> 01:01:33,179
couple sentence question,

2147
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:34,420
you get a couple paragraph

2148
01:01:34,420 --> 01:01:35,220
answer.

2149
01:01:35,809 --> 01:01:37,289
If you ask a five paragraph

2150
01:01:37,289 --> 01:01:38,449
question, you give it lots of

2151
01:01:38,449 --> 01:01:39,250
context,

2152
01:01:39,469 --> 01:01:40,269
you get

2153
01:01:40,489 --> 01:01:42,289
a 10 page response.

2154
01:01:42,449 --> 01:01:44,030
And I'm just generalizing here,

2155
01:01:44,110 --> 01:01:45,409
of course, but the detail of the

2156
01:01:45,409 --> 01:01:46,710
response that you get back is in

2157
01:01:46,710 --> 01:01:47,989
direct proportion to the detail

2158
01:01:47,989 --> 01:01:49,090
of context you provide.

2159
01:01:51,159 --> 01:01:52,360
Absolutely, absolutely.

2160
01:01:52,619 --> 01:01:53,980
And this is, again,

2161
01:01:54,550 --> 01:01:56,210
people underestimate the power

2162
01:01:56,210 --> 01:01:58,210
of the system that's now upon

2163
01:01:58,210 --> 01:01:59,730
us. And we're at, as I

2164
01:01:59,730 --> 01:02:02,250
mentioned, GDP 5 .0.

2165
01:02:02,369 --> 01:02:03,769
It's a bit like PlayStation,

2166
01:02:04,070 --> 01:02:05,329
whatever it's at now, 15.

2167
01:02:05,829 --> 01:02:07,570
This will continue to iterate.

2168
01:02:07,710 --> 01:02:09,250
The AI that we're interacting

2169
01:02:09,250 --> 01:02:11,210
with now, a bit like ag tech,

2170
01:02:11,389 --> 01:02:13,090
this is not as good as it will

2171
01:02:13,090 --> 01:02:14,610
get. This is base level.

2172
01:02:15,190 --> 01:02:16,690
What we're going to see and

2173
01:02:16,690 --> 01:02:17,829
witness, and this is

2174
01:02:18,260 --> 01:02:20,039
a global phenomenon that will

2175
01:02:20,039 --> 01:02:22,300
play into every aspect of our

2176
01:02:22,300 --> 01:02:24,539
lives. Where we are now compared

2177
01:02:24,539 --> 01:02:26,059
to where we will be in three

2178
01:02:26,059 --> 01:02:28,119
years, it will look like science

2179
01:02:28,119 --> 01:02:28,920
fiction.

2180
01:02:29,139 --> 01:02:30,860
We're at the Model T Ford

2181
01:02:30,860 --> 01:02:32,239
element of AI.

2182
01:02:32,659 --> 01:02:34,960
We'll probably move within three

2183
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:36,880
years, not 30 years, not 13

2184
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:38,000
years. Within three years,

2185
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:40,139
we'll be at the equivalent of

2186
01:02:40,139 --> 01:02:41,719
driving a Tesla compared to a

2187
01:02:41,719 --> 01:02:42,519
Model T Ford.

2188
01:02:42,900 --> 01:02:44,420
That's the rate of change that

2189
01:02:44,420 --> 01:02:45,300
we're going to be seeing.

2190
01:02:48,059 --> 01:02:49,980
Being becoming conversant with

2191
01:02:49,980 --> 01:02:52,019
that now at this early stage is

2192
01:02:52,019 --> 01:02:54,039
very advantageous for you as

2193
01:02:54,039 --> 01:02:56,519
that ability grows within the

2194
01:02:56,519 --> 01:02:58,320
systems that are available to

2195
01:02:58,320 --> 01:02:59,120
us.

2196
01:02:59,019 --> 01:03:00,800
But as you say, and this is the

2197
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:02,119
thing right now, you don't it's

2198
01:03:02,119 --> 01:03:03,300
not just a matter of putting a

2199
01:03:03,300 --> 01:03:04,360
question in whether it's a

2200
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:06,519
paragraph or five paragraphs, or

2201
01:03:06,519 --> 01:03:08,119
a few pages, you can put

2202
01:03:08,119 --> 01:03:10,019
research papers into it, you can

2203
01:03:10,019 --> 01:03:12,320
put your mentioned earlier SAP

2204
01:03:12,429 --> 01:03:13,909
whether you've got SAP results,

2205
01:03:14,230 --> 01:03:16,289
SAP analysis, should I say, or

2206
01:03:16,289 --> 01:03:18,329
soil analysis, all that can be

2207
01:03:18,329 --> 01:03:19,449
fed into this as well.

2208
01:03:20,139 --> 01:03:20,940
So,

2209
01:03:20,949 --> 01:03:22,269
But what I would say for people

2210
01:03:22,269 --> 01:03:24,030
who are uncertain about AI at

2211
01:03:24,030 --> 01:03:25,449
the moment is to work with

2212
01:03:25,449 --> 01:03:27,489
people like yourself in AEA.

2213
01:03:27,590 --> 01:03:28,390
And I'm not just saying this

2214
01:03:28,309 --> 01:03:29,469
because we're on the podcast

2215
01:03:29,469 --> 01:03:30,269
with you now.

2216
01:03:30,570 --> 01:03:31,370
People who have an

2217
01:03:31,250 --> 01:03:32,849
understanding, whoever your

2218
01:03:32,849 --> 01:03:34,909
current agronomist is, sit down

2219
01:03:34,909 --> 01:03:36,170
with your agronomist, whoever

2220
01:03:36,170 --> 01:03:37,289
they are, whether they come from

2221
01:03:37,289 --> 01:03:38,590
the local co -op extension,

2222
01:03:39,050 --> 01:03:40,210
whether they're AEA, whether

2223
01:03:40,210 --> 01:03:41,550
they're Understanding Ag, or the

2224
01:03:41,550 --> 01:03:43,670
plethora of other very highly

2225
01:03:43,670 --> 01:03:45,590
qualified, very experienced

2226
01:03:45,590 --> 01:03:48,469
agricultural and farming support

2227
01:03:49,179 --> 01:03:50,880
experts out there, whoever you

2228
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:52,440
interact with within your farm,

2229
01:03:52,599 --> 01:03:55,320
sit down with them and get to

2230
01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:57,500
know how AI can support you

2231
01:03:57,500 --> 01:03:58,300
both.

2232
01:03:58,639 --> 01:04:00,059
And put all the information,

2233
01:04:00,260 --> 01:04:01,519
anything that you've got stored

2234
01:04:01,519 --> 01:04:02,840
in any of your other files,

2235
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:04,900
loaded into the AI system.

2236
01:04:05,139 --> 01:04:07,219
And in exact, well, I'll put

2237
01:04:07,219 --> 01:04:08,079
this back to you, John.

2238
01:04:08,300 --> 01:04:10,179
What is the real core benefit,

2239
01:04:10,500 --> 01:04:12,460
in your view, of FieldLark?

2240
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:14,960
And how has that benefit been

2241
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:16,559
built into this system?

2242
01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:21,260
exactly what you're describing,

2243
01:04:21,460 --> 01:04:23,639
Martin. It comes down to

2244
01:04:24,210 --> 01:04:25,250
two

2245
01:04:25,630 --> 01:04:26,430
things.

2246
01:04:26,590 --> 01:04:30,090
One is the data

2247
01:04:30,090 --> 01:04:32,710
library that it has been trained

2248
01:04:32,710 --> 01:04:35,010
on. That is the unique AEA

2249
01:04:35,010 --> 01:04:36,050
knowledge set

2250
01:04:36,420 --> 01:04:39,000
and data set of sap analysis and

2251
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:40,380
soil analysis and what the crop

2252
01:04:40,380 --> 01:04:41,679
performance outcomes of those

2253
01:04:41,679 --> 01:04:42,480
were.

2254
01:04:42,550 --> 01:04:45,289
It is on the Knowledge

2255
01:04:45,289 --> 01:04:47,349
Archive, all of the publicly

2256
01:04:47,349 --> 01:04:49,170
accessible papers and books and

2257
01:04:49,170 --> 01:04:50,329
so forth that are in the public

2258
01:04:50,329 --> 01:04:51,130
domain.

2259
01:04:51,230 --> 01:04:52,989
That is a knowledge set that is

2260
01:04:52,989 --> 01:04:54,429
particularly relevant to

2261
01:04:54,429 --> 01:04:56,250
regenerative agriculture and

2262
01:04:56,400 --> 01:04:57,860
just also to agriculture in

2263
01:04:57,860 --> 01:04:58,660
general,

2264
01:04:59,429 --> 01:05:00,469
combined with

2265
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:03,800
the programming

2266
01:05:04,170 --> 01:05:06,929
that seeks to optimize

2267
01:05:06,929 --> 01:05:08,590
biological systems and that

2268
01:05:08,590 --> 01:05:09,789
follows ethical principles.

2269
01:05:09,949 --> 01:05:10,750
You know,

2270
01:05:10,699 --> 01:05:11,599
this is such an interesting

2271
01:05:11,599 --> 01:05:12,400
piece.

2272
01:05:13,429 --> 01:05:14,530
FieldARC has been out there now

2273
01:05:14,530 --> 01:05:15,330
for a couple of years.

2274
01:05:16,159 --> 01:05:18,380
and we have received almost

2275
01:05:18,380 --> 01:05:21,340
universally rave responses and

2276
01:05:21,340 --> 01:05:22,780
very positive feedback at this

2277
01:05:22,780 --> 01:05:23,800
early stage, which is not a

2278
01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:24,600
surprise because,

2279
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:26,340
as you would expect, many of the

2280
01:05:26,619 --> 01:05:28,179
early users are

2281
01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:30,739
familiar with our work at

2282
01:05:30,739 --> 01:05:31,699
Advancing EcoAgriculture.

2283
01:05:31,820 --> 01:05:34,750
But we had one comment

2284
01:05:34,750 --> 01:05:36,250
on social media

2285
01:05:36,619 --> 01:05:39,199
where a grower said something to

2286
01:05:39,199 --> 01:05:40,820
the effect of, oh yeah, this

2287
01:05:40,820 --> 01:05:42,159
FieldARC is biased.

2288
01:05:43,050 --> 01:05:45,369
And that made me smile.

2289
01:05:45,449 --> 01:05:46,449
It made me laugh, actually,

2290
01:05:46,650 --> 01:05:48,690
because what

2291
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:50,280
we did

2292
01:05:50,449 --> 01:05:52,630
is we deliberately directed

2293
01:05:52,630 --> 01:05:55,940
FieldArc to not have bias.

2294
01:05:56,340 --> 01:05:59,019
We deliberately directed it to

2295
01:05:59,239 --> 01:06:02,739
frame its logic process

2296
01:06:02,739 --> 01:06:04,300
and its thought processes in

2297
01:06:04,300 --> 01:06:05,820
terms of ethical principles

2298
01:06:06,130 --> 01:06:09,250
and of minimizing damage

2299
01:06:09,690 --> 01:06:11,869
to biological and ecological

2300
01:06:11,869 --> 01:06:12,670
systems.

2301
01:06:13,300 --> 01:06:14,100
And so

2302
01:06:14,309 --> 01:06:17,429
When we asked it to review all

2303
01:06:17,429 --> 01:06:18,590
of the extensive literature that

2304
01:06:18,590 --> 01:06:19,390
is out there,

2305
01:06:19,789 --> 01:06:22,409
when it formulates responses,

2306
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:25,840
we asked it to not have bias, to

2307
01:06:25,840 --> 01:06:28,079
remove any bias in favor of

2308
01:06:28,360 --> 01:06:31,739
green revolution or more

2309
01:06:31,739 --> 01:06:34,139
modern solutions, and instead to

2310
01:06:34,139 --> 01:06:35,719
look at everything from a first

2311
01:06:35,719 --> 01:06:37,019
principles perspective of what

2312
01:06:37,019 --> 01:06:38,400
are the foundational principles

2313
01:06:38,400 --> 01:06:39,800
and the foundational ethical

2314
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:42,150
principles. And when it provides

2315
01:06:42,150 --> 01:06:44,070
answers in that framework and in

2316
01:06:44,070 --> 01:06:44,870
that context,

2317
01:06:45,420 --> 01:06:47,440
it appears to be biased to

2318
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:50,699
someone who only has that type

2319
01:06:50,699 --> 01:06:52,739
of or kind of the contemporary

2320
01:06:52,739 --> 01:06:54,380
agriculture knowledge set.

2321
01:06:54,780 --> 01:06:56,400
It appears to be biased when in

2322
01:06:56,400 --> 01:06:57,200
fact the

2323
01:06:57,719 --> 01:06:59,000
exact opposite is the case.

2324
01:06:59,340 --> 01:07:00,239
It has been deliberately

2325
01:07:00,239 --> 01:07:01,800
designed to remove bias.

2326
01:07:02,139 --> 01:07:03,019
Isn't that fascinating?

2327
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:06,340
It's fascinating it's human

2328
01:07:06,340 --> 01:07:07,619
nature to expect that there's

2329
01:07:07,619 --> 01:07:08,519
bias built into it.

2330
01:07:08,579 --> 01:07:09,920
Just to clarify that for the

2331
01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:10,960
audience, as well, when you're

2332
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:13,900
saying it has a pro

2333
01:07:13,900 --> 01:07:16,079
-AEA SLAM, are you talking about

2334
01:07:16,079 --> 01:07:17,920
amendments specifically that it

2335
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:19,179
recommends or services?

2336
01:07:20,510 --> 01:07:22,150
It does not have a pro -AEA

2337
01:07:22,150 --> 01:07:22,950
SLAM.

2338
01:07:24,309 --> 01:07:26,150
It's been deliberately—it's been

2339
01:07:26,150 --> 01:07:27,570
deliberately instructed— Sorry,

2340
01:07:27,650 --> 01:07:28,929
the bias that you referenced.

2341
01:07:30,159 --> 01:07:31,239
It's been deliberately

2342
01:07:31,239 --> 01:07:33,440
instructed to not have bias

2343
01:07:34,300 --> 01:07:35,100
other

2344
01:07:35,300 --> 01:07:38,199
than—and it has been instructed

2345
01:07:38,199 --> 01:07:39,000
to

2346
01:07:39,550 --> 01:07:41,869
make all recommendations from a

2347
01:07:41,869 --> 01:07:43,030
first principles

2348
01:07:43,469 --> 01:07:46,210
ethical perspective and to

2349
01:07:46,210 --> 01:07:49,260
consider the impact on the

2350
01:07:49,260 --> 01:07:50,219
entire ecosystem.

2351
01:07:50,519 --> 01:07:51,380
So, for example,

2352
01:07:51,960 --> 01:07:54,699
if you were to ask Fieldark for

2353
01:07:55,300 --> 01:07:58,199
a nitrogen application on a corn

2354
01:07:58,199 --> 01:07:59,380
crop, I'll just pick a common

2355
01:07:59,380 --> 01:08:00,180
example,

2356
01:08:00,869 --> 01:08:03,789
it is unlikely to

2357
01:08:03,789 --> 01:08:04,690
recommend

2358
01:08:05,260 --> 01:08:06,460
anhydrous ammonia,

2359
01:08:07,630 --> 01:08:08,809
not because we've told it that

2360
01:08:08,809 --> 01:08:10,110
anhydrous ammonia is a bad

2361
01:08:10,110 --> 01:08:10,910
thing,

2362
01:08:11,039 --> 01:08:12,500
But because it looks at the

2363
01:08:12,500 --> 01:08:13,500
research, looks at the

2364
01:08:13,500 --> 01:08:14,920
literature, and says, aha,

2365
01:08:15,539 --> 01:08:16,779
anhydrous ammonia has

2366
01:08:17,119 --> 01:08:19,479
these negative impacts on the

2367
01:08:19,479 --> 01:08:21,600
soil microbiome as compared to

2368
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:23,300
urea or ammonium sulfate or

2369
01:08:23,300 --> 01:08:24,180
other forms of nitrogen.

2370
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:26,420
So, therefore, I'm going to be

2371
01:08:26,420 --> 01:08:27,600
cautious about recommending

2372
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:28,460
anhydrous ammonia.

2373
01:08:29,439 --> 01:08:31,739
And I'm just using that as an

2374
01:08:31,739 --> 01:08:33,479
example, but it will look at

2375
01:08:34,079 --> 01:08:36,000
it will look at the potential

2376
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:37,819
negative consequences and try to

2377
01:08:37,819 --> 01:08:39,100
minimize those consequences,

2378
01:08:39,399 --> 01:08:40,920
secondary and tertiary

2379
01:08:40,920 --> 01:08:42,840
consequences, when it is making

2380
01:08:42,840 --> 01:08:45,739
recommendations based on ethical

2381
01:08:45,739 --> 01:08:47,439
principles related to ecosystem

2382
01:08:47,439 --> 01:08:48,680
health and environmental health

2383
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:49,480
and so forth.

2384
01:08:52,350 --> 01:08:53,329
At the end of the day, we're

2385
01:08:53,329 --> 01:08:55,770
looking to, as a farm operation,

2386
01:08:56,050 --> 01:08:57,729
you're looking for continuously

2387
01:08:57,729 --> 01:08:59,890
looking to optimize all

2388
01:09:01,420 --> 01:09:03,300
aspects of that farm operation.

2389
01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:05,850
And that's where we can say well

2390
01:09:05,850 --> 01:09:07,670
we know it all and we don't need

2391
01:09:07,670 --> 01:09:09,670
outside help or we can seek help

2392
01:09:09,670 --> 01:09:11,130
outside as it's how you and I

2393
01:09:11,130 --> 01:09:12,029
got to know each other.

2394
01:09:12,149 --> 01:09:13,989
I got led into regenerative

2395
01:09:13,989 --> 01:09:15,430
agriculture because of a

2396
01:09:15,430 --> 01:09:16,670
documentary I saw, The Little

2397
01:09:16,670 --> 01:09:18,069
Big Farm, that led me into

2398
01:09:18,069 --> 01:09:20,090
biodynamics and then I found a

2399
01:09:20,090 --> 01:09:21,590
lady I'm sure you know very

2400
01:09:21,590 --> 01:09:22,390
well,

2401
01:09:23,029 --> 01:09:23,829
Dr. Len Ingram.

2402
01:09:24,090 --> 01:09:25,569
I was regarded at the time as

2403
01:09:25,569 --> 01:09:27,109
the number one soil biologist on

2404
01:09:27,109 --> 01:09:28,510
the planet. I saw her presenting

2405
01:09:28,510 --> 01:09:29,770
to a bunch of English farmers,

2406
01:09:29,909 --> 01:09:30,850
funnily enough, on YouTube,

2407
01:09:31,369 --> 01:09:33,229
talking about this regenerative

2408
01:09:33,229 --> 01:09:34,029
farming.

2409
01:09:33,909 --> 01:09:34,970
Eight years ago, I didn't know

2410
01:09:34,970 --> 01:09:36,350
regenerative farming existed.

2411
01:09:36,550 --> 01:09:38,189
Something about what she was

2412
01:09:38,189 --> 01:09:40,310
saying and how she said it sold

2413
01:09:40,310 --> 01:09:42,189
into me. It was almost the

2414
01:09:42,189 --> 01:09:43,550
phrase that went through my

2415
01:09:43,550 --> 01:09:44,529
mind, whatever you're selling,

2416
01:09:44,649 --> 01:09:45,449
I'm buying.

2417
01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:47,180
And I deep dived into

2418
01:09:47,180 --> 01:09:48,819
regenerative agriculture and saw

2419
01:09:48,819 --> 01:09:50,720
immediately the benefits, what

2420
01:09:50,720 --> 01:09:51,760
that could deliver.

2421
01:09:52,159 --> 01:09:53,359
That was then a very,

2422
01:09:54,359 --> 01:09:55,800
Interesting conversation I had

2423
01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:57,180
with the owner of the business

2424
01:09:57,180 --> 01:09:58,739
that I'm currently working with,

2425
01:09:58,939 --> 01:09:59,840
Union Grove Farm.

2426
01:10:00,420 --> 01:10:01,800
Greg's a very astute business

2427
01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:03,279
person. He understands farming,

2428
01:10:03,380 --> 01:10:04,859
but he's business driven, and

2429
01:10:04,859 --> 01:10:06,500
he's very, very good at driving

2430
01:10:06,500 --> 01:10:07,380
that business into

2431
01:10:07,380 --> 01:10:08,180
profitability.

2432
01:10:08,460 --> 01:10:10,180
He and I both saw regenerative

2433
01:10:10,180 --> 01:10:12,340
agriculture as the future if we

2434
01:10:12,340 --> 01:10:13,560
wanted to become a profitable

2435
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:14,360
enterprise.

2436
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:16,399
What AI does now, what

2437
01:10:16,399 --> 01:10:19,579
functionality that you

2438
01:10:19,579 --> 01:10:20,380
deliver,

2439
01:10:20,659 --> 01:10:22,680
with field lark as an example.

2440
01:10:22,859 --> 01:10:24,640
You can use chat to be TB, but

2441
01:10:24,640 --> 01:10:26,140
if I'm going to be utilising

2442
01:10:26,140 --> 01:10:28,380
AONI more and more these days, I

2443
01:10:28,380 --> 01:10:29,739
want something that will have an

2444
01:10:29,739 --> 01:10:30,739
understanding of the

2445
01:10:30,739 --> 01:10:33,720
agronomistic challenges that I

2446
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:34,520
face.

2447
01:10:34,930 --> 01:10:36,949
What can take my soil and my sap

2448
01:10:36,949 --> 01:10:38,550
test earlier, the field symptoms

2449
01:10:38,550 --> 01:10:40,569
into a step -by -step, biology

2450
01:10:40,569 --> 01:10:41,369
first,

2451
01:10:42,770 --> 01:10:43,810
recommendations that I can

2452
01:10:43,810 --> 01:10:46,430
utilize and pull up on my phone

2453
01:10:46,430 --> 01:10:47,230
out in the field.

2454
01:10:47,229 --> 01:10:49,050
I can snap something in the

2455
01:10:49,050 --> 01:10:50,890
field and do this as well.

2456
01:10:50,970 --> 01:10:51,770
You said earlier what other

2457
01:10:51,689 --> 01:10:52,890
functionalities we have.

2458
01:10:53,069 --> 01:10:54,250
We've just gone through a whole

2459
01:10:54,250 --> 01:10:56,810
series of fungal outbreaks on

2460
01:10:56,810 --> 01:10:58,310
the farm with our grapes over

2461
01:10:58,310 --> 01:10:59,609
this season because we've never

2462
01:10:59,609 --> 01:11:01,460
seen rain like we've had this

2463
01:11:01,460 --> 01:11:03,659
year. We had 22, 23 inches in

2464
01:11:03,659 --> 01:11:04,579
one month, July.

2465
01:11:04,739 --> 01:11:05,539
Never seen it like,

2466
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:07,100
never seen anything like it

2467
01:11:07,100 --> 01:11:09,340
before. That created like a

2468
01:11:09,340 --> 01:11:11,439
petri dish for fungal outbreaks.

2469
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:12,760
Some of these fungals we'd not

2470
01:11:12,760 --> 01:11:14,659
seen before. I was able to take

2471
01:11:14,659 --> 01:11:16,079
real -time, in -the -field

2472
01:11:16,079 --> 01:11:18,560
photographs of these different

2473
01:11:18,560 --> 01:11:19,619
markings

2474
01:11:20,659 --> 01:11:23,180
on the fruit, on the leaves, and

2475
01:11:23,180 --> 01:11:24,979
feed that into my AI, fed it

2476
01:11:24,979 --> 01:11:26,520
into, I feel like I fed it into

2477
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:29,020
Jack Chatty to GTP, so I've got

2478
01:11:29,020 --> 01:11:29,820
a reference,

2479
01:11:30,060 --> 01:11:31,659
and it immediately threw up

2480
01:11:31,659 --> 01:11:32,920
suggestions. Now, some of those

2481
01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:34,279
suggestions were incorrect.

2482
01:11:34,500 --> 01:11:35,680
A lot of them were correct.

2483
01:11:36,159 --> 01:11:37,500
Right in behind that,

2484
01:11:37,869 --> 01:11:39,770
It immediately gives you

2485
01:11:39,770 --> 01:11:41,810
recommendations on how to deal

2486
01:11:41,810 --> 01:11:43,250
with this, whether it's your

2487
01:11:43,250 --> 01:11:44,949
protocols, your practices, your

2488
01:11:44,949 --> 01:11:46,609
systems, or amendments.

2489
01:11:47,430 --> 01:11:48,970
That's something which would

2490
01:11:48,970 --> 01:11:50,569
have taken a phone call, I would

2491
01:11:50,569 --> 01:11:52,010
have had to dial somebody in.

2492
01:11:52,489 --> 01:11:53,289
And

2493
01:11:53,090 --> 01:11:56,149
again, it doesn't stop that

2494
01:11:56,149 --> 01:11:58,409
interaction with people within

2495
01:11:58,409 --> 01:12:00,050
your farm operation, bringing in

2496
01:12:00,050 --> 01:12:00,869
your vineyard manager,

2497
01:12:01,170 --> 01:12:02,409
your agronomist.

2498
01:12:03,250 --> 01:12:04,789
But what it does, it speeds

2499
01:12:04,789 --> 01:12:06,170
things up, as I said earlier, it

2500
01:12:06,170 --> 01:12:08,029
augments, it doesn't replace.

2501
01:12:08,270 --> 01:12:09,810
We've never had that before.

2502
01:12:09,930 --> 01:12:11,130
I think what we're going to find

2503
01:12:11,130 --> 01:12:13,010
as we move forward, is that this

2504
01:12:13,010 --> 01:12:14,130
is going to be somewhat of a

2505
01:12:14,130 --> 01:12:15,590
revelation for people once they

2506
01:12:15,590 --> 01:12:17,210
apply themselves into it.

2507
01:12:17,470 --> 01:12:18,489
And that's the key to it.

2508
01:12:18,609 --> 01:12:19,689
It's a new tool,

2509
01:12:20,289 --> 01:12:21,789
learn it, and you'll benefit

2510
01:12:21,789 --> 01:12:22,590
from it.

2511
01:12:22,670 --> 01:12:23,989
If you don't, then,

2512
01:12:24,350 --> 01:12:26,090
well, people are not using the

2513
01:12:26,090 --> 01:12:27,329
plow anymore and the horse.

2514
01:12:28,130 --> 01:12:29,310
This is what we're moving to

2515
01:12:29,310 --> 01:12:30,210
with agriculture.

2516
01:12:30,989 --> 01:12:32,609
Yeah, I see similar to you that

2517
01:12:32,609 --> 01:12:34,569
the speed of evolution, the

2518
01:12:34,569 --> 01:12:35,890
speed of development of AI is

2519
01:12:35,890 --> 01:12:38,069
moving so rapidly that

2520
01:12:38,579 --> 01:12:39,680
if

2521
01:12:40,119 --> 01:12:41,159
we're at the Model T forward

2522
01:12:41,159 --> 01:12:42,739
stage, we're going to,

2523
01:12:43,060 --> 01:12:43,860
I mean, there are

2524
01:12:44,270 --> 01:12:45,550
general assessments that we'll

2525
01:12:45,550 --> 01:12:48,029
be at general AI by 2027,

2526
01:12:48,489 --> 01:12:50,210
right, by 2030 at the latest.

2527
01:12:50,770 --> 01:12:51,570
And

2528
01:12:52,399 --> 01:12:54,279
It is the time to learn about it

2529
01:12:54,279 --> 01:12:55,279
and to become familiar with it.

2530
01:12:55,369 --> 01:12:57,289
is now or to be left in the

2531
01:12:57,289 --> 01:12:59,489
dust. I mean, I think the top

2532
01:12:59,489 --> 01:13:00,670
performing agronomists and

2533
01:13:00,670 --> 01:13:01,729
farmers in the future will be

2534
01:13:01,729 --> 01:13:02,750
the people who embrace this

2535
01:13:02,750 --> 01:13:05,010
technology. It will be

2536
01:13:06,399 --> 01:13:07,199
as

2537
01:13:07,659 --> 01:13:10,020
readily and widely used as

2538
01:13:10,020 --> 01:13:12,239
a Google search is today.

2539
01:13:12,359 --> 01:13:14,659
And I'm using Google as a verb

2540
01:13:14,659 --> 01:13:16,140
now.

2541
01:13:16,770 --> 01:13:18,689
Um, as a search engine, we're

2542
01:13:18,689 --> 01:13:20,930
going to have similar verbs for

2543
01:13:20,930 --> 01:13:22,470
using AI in the future, in the

2544
01:13:22,470 --> 01:13:23,510
very near future, I think.

2545
01:13:24,210 --> 01:13:25,390
Um, so I want to talk a bit

2546
01:13:25,390 --> 01:13:26,390
about your disease pressure

2547
01:13:26,390 --> 01:13:27,190
because

2548
01:13:27,250 --> 01:13:30,229
I am absolutely delighted and

2549
01:13:30,229 --> 01:13:31,390
impressed with the results that

2550
01:13:31,390 --> 01:13:32,250
we're getting from pinion.

2551
01:13:32,470 --> 01:13:33,670
It's, it's our first year of

2552
01:13:33,670 --> 01:13:34,970
having pinion in the field in a

2553
01:13:34,970 --> 01:13:35,770
significant way.

2554
01:13:36,520 --> 01:13:37,320
And,

2555
01:13:37,600 --> 01:13:38,400
um,

2556
01:13:38,750 --> 01:13:40,250
when I, when I, I

2557
01:13:41,430 --> 01:13:42,590
first developed this product,

2558
01:13:42,590 --> 01:13:43,710
it's been sitting on the shelf

2559
01:13:43,710 --> 01:13:44,510
for a decade.

2560
01:13:44,979 --> 01:13:45,779
And.

2561
01:13:46,210 --> 01:13:47,050
We've done some further

2562
01:13:47,050 --> 01:13:48,710
refinements and improvements as

2563
01:13:48,710 --> 01:13:50,050
we developed it and brought it

2564
01:13:50,050 --> 01:13:50,850
to the marketplace.

2565
01:13:50,930 --> 01:13:51,730
But

2566
01:13:51,640 --> 01:13:52,440
this,

2567
01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:53,460
it has such

2568
01:13:54,090 --> 01:13:56,850
a profound

2569
01:13:57,579 --> 01:13:59,399
impact. At this point, we have,

2570
01:13:59,479 --> 01:14:00,479
I don't know the exact number of

2571
01:14:00,479 --> 01:14:01,560
operations that we have it out

2572
01:14:01,560 --> 01:14:02,360
on this summer.

2573
01:14:02,399 --> 01:14:03,779
It's quite a number of them.

2574
01:14:03,840 --> 01:14:05,060
And it's been

2575
01:14:05,399 --> 01:14:07,199
hitting the ball out of the park

2576
01:14:07,199 --> 01:14:09,159
consistently on a broad range of

2577
01:14:09,159 --> 01:14:10,460
fungal and bacterial diseases.

2578
01:14:10,640 --> 01:14:11,579
Have you, I'm not sure

2579
01:14:11,890 --> 01:14:13,550
exactly what the context is

2580
01:14:13,550 --> 01:14:14,609
here. Have you had the chance to

2581
01:14:14,609 --> 01:14:15,590
use it yet on your operation

2582
01:14:15,590 --> 01:14:16,470
with the disease pressure that

2583
01:14:16,470 --> 01:14:17,270
you've had?

2584
01:14:17,930 --> 01:14:20,430
Well, I track your organization,

2585
01:14:20,789 --> 01:14:22,170
scan your web on a regular

2586
01:14:22,170 --> 01:14:23,470
basis. Plus, I've got my finger

2587
01:14:23,470 --> 01:14:24,869
on the pulse with yourself and

2588
01:14:24,869 --> 01:14:27,170
people like Tish and the

2589
01:14:27,520 --> 01:14:30,260
operatives that we use in the

2590
01:14:30,260 --> 01:14:31,119
field with AEA.

2591
01:14:31,239 --> 01:14:33,039
So, yes, I was made aware of

2592
01:14:33,039 --> 01:14:33,840
Pinion,

2593
01:14:34,579 --> 01:14:37,300
our in -house scientist who's

2594
01:14:37,300 --> 01:14:38,619
over soil and

2595
01:14:40,159 --> 01:14:40,960
Vine Health,

2596
01:14:41,300 --> 01:14:43,659
Patrick Carvanhaar, has actually

2597
01:14:43,659 --> 01:14:44,979
been in conversation with your

2598
01:14:44,979 --> 01:14:47,260
people at technical level, as

2599
01:14:47,260 --> 01:14:49,100
well as your vineyard operations

2600
01:14:49,100 --> 01:14:49,900
expert.

2601
01:14:50,220 --> 01:14:51,800
Pedro, out in California.

2602
01:14:53,119 --> 01:14:54,939
The reason why we were searching

2603
01:14:54,939 --> 01:14:56,140
and seeking for something in

2604
01:14:56,140 --> 01:14:57,119
this area is for the reason I've

2605
01:14:57,119 --> 01:14:57,920
just stated.

2606
01:14:58,279 --> 01:14:59,579
This year, it's been rain.

2607
01:14:59,640 --> 01:15:00,440
Last year, we had

2608
01:15:00,819 --> 01:15:02,100
close to a drought for six

2609
01:15:02,100 --> 01:15:02,900
weeks.

2610
01:15:03,079 --> 01:15:04,500
We talked about this right at

2611
01:15:04,500 --> 01:15:05,840
the start. The climate is

2612
01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:07,279
changing. The climate has always

2613
01:15:07,279 --> 01:15:08,579
changed. We live in a planet

2614
01:15:08,579 --> 01:15:10,779
where we have extreme weather

2615
01:15:10,779 --> 01:15:11,579
events.

2616
01:15:12,170 --> 01:15:12,970
What

2617
01:15:12,859 --> 01:15:15,899
we've got now with adjuncts and

2618
01:15:15,899 --> 01:15:18,279
support with things like AAA and

2619
01:15:18,279 --> 01:15:20,180
the amendments is something

2620
01:15:20,180 --> 01:15:22,079
which helps us to deal better,

2621
01:15:22,560 --> 01:15:23,779
more optimally with the

2622
01:15:23,779 --> 01:15:24,779
challenges that we will

2623
01:15:24,779 --> 01:15:26,479
continuously face in farming.

2624
01:15:26,939 --> 01:15:29,039
So, pinyin came on our radar.

2625
01:15:29,720 --> 01:15:31,159
I think when I first looked at

2626
01:15:31,159 --> 01:15:32,140
it on your website, it's

2627
01:15:32,140 --> 01:15:33,699
literally introducing it.

2628
01:15:33,760 --> 01:15:34,699
It's got a picture of grapes

2629
01:15:34,699 --> 01:15:35,500
alongside.

2630
01:15:35,760 --> 01:15:37,659
We needed something to help us

2631
01:15:37,659 --> 01:15:39,359
tackle fungal and bacterial

2632
01:15:39,359 --> 01:15:40,159
pathogens.

2633
01:15:40,720 --> 01:15:42,399
And what my understanding is,

2634
01:15:42,689 --> 01:15:44,609
and something which would tackle

2635
01:15:44,609 --> 01:15:46,409
fungal and bacterial pathogens

2636
01:15:46,409 --> 01:15:48,729
that doesn't disrupt the plant's

2637
01:15:48,729 --> 01:15:50,770
microbiome. So I don't want to

2638
01:15:50,770 --> 01:15:51,570
use a synthetic.

2639
01:15:51,689 --> 01:15:53,869
If you're organic, you can't use

2640
01:15:53,869 --> 01:15:55,010
a synthetic. If you're

2641
01:15:55,010 --> 01:15:56,630
regenerative, you mitigate it

2642
01:15:56,630 --> 01:15:58,210
with a view to eradicating it.

2643
01:15:58,489 --> 01:15:59,970
But we've got problems and

2644
01:15:59,970 --> 01:16:01,909
challenges within farming,

2645
01:16:02,090 --> 01:16:03,960
whatever crop you've got, which

2646
01:16:03,960 --> 01:16:05,119
need to be dealt with

2647
01:16:05,119 --> 01:16:06,460
immediately, all that crop's

2648
01:16:06,460 --> 01:16:07,260
gone.

2649
01:16:07,439 --> 01:16:09,460
So the fact that we heard pinyon

2650
01:16:09,460 --> 01:16:10,939
was being brought to the market

2651
01:16:10,939 --> 01:16:12,680
for us was very, very good

2652
01:16:12,680 --> 01:16:13,480
timing.

2653
01:16:13,500 --> 01:16:14,619
What we then were a little

2654
01:16:14,619 --> 01:16:16,319
disappointed to find out was it

2655
01:16:16,319 --> 01:16:18,199
wasn't available because it

2656
01:16:18,199 --> 01:16:19,239
hadn't been signed off at

2657
01:16:19,239 --> 01:16:20,260
official level in North

2658
01:16:20,260 --> 01:16:21,779
Carolina. So my understanding

2659
01:16:21,779 --> 01:16:23,000
last time I spoke with Patrick

2660
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:24,539
is we're going through that

2661
01:16:24,539 --> 01:16:25,760
process with you and your

2662
01:16:25,760 --> 01:16:27,800
internal people to fast track

2663
01:16:27,800 --> 01:16:28,920
that through. And then I think

2664
01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:30,500
we will very probably be the

2665
01:16:30,500 --> 01:16:31,939
first farm operation in North

2666
01:16:31,939 --> 01:16:33,100
Carolina, potentially the

2667
01:16:33,100 --> 01:16:33,900
Southeast.

2668
01:16:34,029 --> 01:16:35,390
to be using the product.

2669
01:16:35,649 --> 01:16:37,189
So yeah, I'm looking forward to

2670
01:16:37,189 --> 01:16:40,670
seeing how it can be applied

2671
01:16:40,670 --> 01:16:42,210
to the challenges that we've got

2672
01:16:42,210 --> 01:16:43,010
on fungals.

2673
01:16:43,590 --> 01:16:45,189
Yeah, I'll be looking forward to

2674
01:16:45,189 --> 01:16:46,310
that. a follow -up conversation

2675
01:16:46,310 --> 01:16:47,390
with you on that.

2676
01:16:47,569 --> 01:16:49,090
We have, as of this point,

2677
01:16:49,930 --> 01:16:50,730
of

2678
01:16:51,170 --> 01:16:52,670
course, as our organization has

2679
01:16:52,670 --> 01:16:54,890
grown, I don't, I'm no longer at

2680
01:16:55,239 --> 01:16:56,180
the level where I personally

2681
01:16:56,180 --> 01:16:57,640
have context and familiarity

2682
01:16:57,640 --> 01:16:59,239
with every farm that has tried

2683
01:16:59,239 --> 01:17:00,520
it. But as of this point,

2684
01:17:01,279 --> 01:17:02,920
of the many people who've

2685
01:17:02,920 --> 01:17:03,720
applied it,

2686
01:17:04,199 --> 01:17:06,619
I know of one particular

2687
01:17:06,619 --> 01:17:08,399
orchard application

2688
01:17:08,800 --> 01:17:09,659
where

2689
01:17:10,270 --> 01:17:11,930
One application—actually,

2690
01:17:12,430 --> 01:17:14,430
it's not—let me be sure to state

2691
01:17:14,430 --> 01:17:15,230
this precisely.

2692
01:17:16,199 --> 01:17:18,420
They made applications

2693
01:17:18,829 --> 01:17:21,829
50 % as often as they did a

2694
01:17:21,829 --> 01:17:22,710
conventional fungicide

2695
01:17:22,710 --> 01:17:23,510
treatment,

2696
01:17:24,000 --> 01:17:25,000
and

2697
01:17:25,789 --> 01:17:27,869
it underperformed the

2698
01:17:27,869 --> 01:17:28,949
conventional fungicide treatment

2699
01:17:28,949 --> 01:17:30,170
by about 5%.

2700
01:17:31,380 --> 01:17:33,359
And I'm like, all right, I'm

2701
01:17:33,359 --> 01:17:34,279
okay with that result.

2702
01:17:34,439 --> 01:17:36,359
50 % application and under—it

2703
01:17:36,359 --> 01:17:38,359
performed almost the equivalent

2704
01:17:38,359 --> 01:17:39,939
of a conventional fungicide.

2705
01:17:40,829 --> 01:17:42,069
That's a result that I'm quite

2706
01:17:42,069 --> 01:17:42,869
happy with.

2707
01:17:44,079 --> 01:17:45,619
And that's the worst performance

2708
01:17:45,619 --> 01:17:47,039
that I'm aware of at this point

2709
01:17:47,039 --> 01:17:49,239
on just a broad diversity, a

2710
01:17:49,239 --> 01:17:50,399
broad array of different

2711
01:17:50,399 --> 01:17:52,180
diseases, bacterial and fungal

2712
01:17:52,180 --> 01:17:53,199
diseases that it's been tried

2713
01:17:53,199 --> 01:17:54,000
on. So

2714
01:17:54,100 --> 01:17:55,899
I'm quite excited to see where

2715
01:17:55,899 --> 01:17:56,880
that goes this coming year.

2716
01:17:57,279 --> 01:17:58,359
So at any rate,

2717
01:17:58,779 --> 01:18:00,399
Martin, I've really enjoyed this

2718
01:18:00,399 --> 01:18:01,199
conversation.

2719
01:18:01,239 --> 01:18:03,060
There are many topics that we

2720
01:18:03,060 --> 01:18:04,119
could have talked about that we

2721
01:18:04,119 --> 01:18:04,939
haven't gotten to yet.

2722
01:18:05,239 --> 01:18:06,659
What's something important that

2723
01:18:06,659 --> 01:18:07,460
we've missed?

2724
01:18:09,239 --> 01:18:11,239
For me, I'll circle back again,

2725
01:18:11,380 --> 01:18:14,380
the future for humanity, you

2726
01:18:14,380 --> 01:18:16,840
might say, is moving away from

2727
01:18:16,840 --> 01:18:19,560
the competitive culture, society

2728
01:18:19,560 --> 01:18:21,699
mindset that we've had for

2729
01:18:21,699 --> 01:18:22,859
centuries now,

2730
01:18:23,300 --> 01:18:25,619
and moving more towards the

2731
01:18:25,619 --> 01:18:26,420
collaborative,

2732
01:18:26,800 --> 01:18:27,920
cooperative approach.

2733
01:18:28,489 --> 01:18:29,750
And I'm seeing this more and

2734
01:18:29,750 --> 01:18:30,909
more certainly that it's been

2735
01:18:30,909 --> 01:18:32,329
such a pleasure and an honor to

2736
01:18:32,329 --> 01:18:33,989
operate within the regenerative

2737
01:18:33,989 --> 01:18:35,630
movement and reference this all

2738
01:18:35,630 --> 01:18:37,250
the time as a regenerative

2739
01:18:37,250 --> 01:18:38,850
movement by that I mean,

2740
01:18:39,369 --> 01:18:40,170
farming,

2741
01:18:40,260 --> 01:18:41,060
food,

2742
01:18:41,819 --> 01:18:43,020
health, investment,

2743
01:18:43,500 --> 01:18:44,880
research, policy.

2744
01:18:45,619 --> 01:18:46,800
We're in the regenerative

2745
01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:48,020
species business.

2746
01:18:49,060 --> 01:18:50,340
We've got a lot of broad

2747
01:18:50,340 --> 01:18:51,920
consistencies we've spoken about

2748
01:18:51,920 --> 01:18:53,439
throughout the podcast today.

2749
01:18:53,859 --> 01:18:55,659
The two areas that I work more

2750
01:18:55,659 --> 01:18:57,359
primarily than anything else is

2751
01:18:57,359 --> 01:18:58,899
what we met the healthcare

2752
01:18:58,899 --> 01:19:01,640
industry and the health

2753
01:19:01,640 --> 01:19:04,239
system and the food system.

2754
01:19:04,380 --> 01:19:05,760
The two are symbiotically

2755
01:19:05,760 --> 01:19:06,560
linked.

2756
01:19:06,699 --> 01:19:08,079
And in order to move forward

2757
01:19:08,079 --> 01:19:09,180
now, farms,

2758
01:19:09,699 --> 01:19:11,640
farmers and farm operations play

2759
01:19:11,640 --> 01:19:13,859
an absolutely fundamental core

2760
01:19:13,859 --> 01:19:14,819
role within that.

2761
01:19:15,039 --> 01:19:16,600
And it's not just the health of

2762
01:19:16,600 --> 01:19:18,340
the system and the food, it's

2763
01:19:18,340 --> 01:19:19,340
the health of the farmers.

2764
01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:21,340
So I think if anything I'd like

2765
01:19:21,340 --> 01:19:24,380
to end on is for people out

2766
01:19:24,380 --> 01:19:25,800
there who are in farming, who

2767
01:19:25,800 --> 01:19:26,920
are farmers and in farming

2768
01:19:26,920 --> 01:19:28,239
operations, for those who are

2769
01:19:28,239 --> 01:19:29,600
listening who might be a

2770
01:19:29,600 --> 01:19:31,180
consumer or just an interested

2771
01:19:31,180 --> 01:19:32,819
third party,

2772
01:19:33,220 --> 01:19:34,119
farming is

2773
01:19:34,579 --> 01:19:36,260
One is without a doubt, I've

2774
01:19:36,260 --> 01:19:37,159
worked in seven different

2775
01:19:37,159 --> 01:19:38,439
industries across the planet in

2776
01:19:38,439 --> 01:19:39,659
the last 35 years,

2777
01:19:40,079 --> 01:19:41,680
never come anything close to the

2778
01:19:41,680 --> 01:19:43,520
challenges and to the hard work

2779
01:19:43,520 --> 01:19:45,819
and dedication farmers put into

2780
01:19:45,819 --> 01:19:47,680
farm operations to provide us

2781
01:19:47,680 --> 01:19:49,739
with the absolute single most

2782
01:19:49,739 --> 01:19:51,779
important thing that we all need

2783
01:19:51,779 --> 01:19:52,579
is food.

2784
01:19:53,130 --> 01:19:53,930
We all need air.

2785
01:19:54,050 --> 01:19:54,850
We all need water.

2786
01:19:54,869 --> 01:19:55,670
We all need food.

2787
01:19:55,850 --> 01:19:58,409
So I'm very grateful to farmers

2788
01:19:58,409 --> 01:20:00,010
for providing that throughout my

2789
01:20:00,010 --> 01:20:00,810
lifetime.

2790
01:20:01,210 --> 01:20:02,130
And now what I feel a

2791
01:20:02,130 --> 01:20:04,130
responsibility towards is to be

2792
01:20:04,130 --> 01:20:05,949
more supportive of them and

2793
01:20:05,949 --> 01:20:07,390
their needs and how we can

2794
01:20:07,390 --> 01:20:09,529
utilize modern technology,

2795
01:20:09,829 --> 01:20:11,210
different ways of operating like

2796
01:20:11,210 --> 01:20:12,310
marketing and business

2797
01:20:12,310 --> 01:20:14,229
development to make their lives

2798
01:20:14,229 --> 01:20:15,109
a little easier,

2799
01:20:15,590 --> 01:20:16,989
to lighten the burden, to give

2800
01:20:16,989 --> 01:20:18,369
them some of the time back and

2801
01:20:18,369 --> 01:20:19,829
to give them an opportunity to

2802
01:20:19,829 --> 01:20:21,890
make a profitable operation that

2803
01:20:21,890 --> 01:20:23,050
not only they will enjoy,

2804
01:20:23,039 --> 01:20:24,920
farming in again, but also

2805
01:20:24,920 --> 01:20:26,819
encourage the generations behind

2806
01:20:26,819 --> 01:20:28,939
them to keep that pattern being

2807
01:20:28,939 --> 01:20:30,199
led forward into the future.

2808
01:20:31,600 --> 01:20:32,400
Thank you, Martin.

2809
01:20:32,479 --> 01:20:33,520
Thanks for being here, for

2810
01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:34,560
sharing your perspectives.

2811
01:20:34,560 --> 01:20:36,560
and your experience, and I look

2812
01:20:36,560 --> 01:20:37,360
forward to having more

2813
01:20:37,180 --> 01:20:37,980
discussions.

2814
01:20:38,359 --> 01:20:39,420
Absolute pleasure, John.

2815
01:20:39,579 --> 01:20:40,939
Thank you for all that you do in

2816
01:20:40,939 --> 01:20:42,060
the movement as well.

2817
01:20:42,180 --> 01:20:43,380
It's very much appreciated, sir.

2818
01:20:44,159 --> 01:20:45,800
The team at AEA and I are

2819
01:20:45,800 --> 01:20:47,340
dedicated to bringing this show

2820
01:20:47,340 --> 01:20:48,920
to you because we believe that

2821
01:20:48,920 --> 01:20:50,619
knowledge and information is the

2822
01:20:50,619 --> 01:20:52,300
foundation of successful

2823
01:20:52,300 --> 01:20:53,560
regenerative systems.

2824
01:20:54,310 --> 01:20:56,289
At AEA, we believe that growing

2825
01:20:56,289 --> 01:20:58,010
better quality food and making

2826
01:20:58,010 --> 01:20:59,550
more money from your crops is

2827
01:20:59,550 --> 01:21:00,350
possible.

2828
01:21:00,550 --> 01:21:02,390
And since 2006, we've worked

2829
01:21:02,390 --> 01:21:03,449
with leading professional

2830
01:21:03,449 --> 01:21:04,890
growers to help them do just

2831
01:21:04,890 --> 01:21:05,690
that.

2832
01:21:05,939 --> 01:21:07,600
At AEA, we don't guess.

2833
01:21:07,880 --> 01:21:09,119
We test. We analyze.

2834
01:21:09,819 --> 01:21:11,020
And we provide recommendations

2835
01:21:11,020 --> 01:21:12,779
based on scientific data,

2836
01:21:13,239 --> 01:21:14,119
knowledge, and experience.

2837
01:21:14,850 --> 01:21:15,930
We've developed products that

2838
01:21:15,930 --> 01:21:17,229
are uniquely positioned to help

2839
01:21:17,229 --> 01:21:18,729
growers make more money with

2840
01:21:18,729 --> 01:21:19,729
regenerative agriculture.

2841
01:21:20,470 --> 01:21:21,829
If you are a professional grower

2842
01:21:21,829 --> 01:21:23,689
who believes in testing instead

2843
01:21:23,689 --> 01:21:24,489
of guessing,

2844
01:21:25,029 --> 01:21:26,130
someone who believes in a

2845
01:21:26,130 --> 01:21:27,550
better, more regenerative way to

2846
01:21:27,550 --> 01:21:28,350
grow,

2847
01:21:28,489 --> 01:21:30,689
visit advancingecoag .com

2848
01:21:30,689 --> 01:21:32,569
and contact us to see if AEA is

2849
01:21:32,569 --> 01:21:33,369
right for you.