Saturday Sickos: Coaching Carousel Predictions and Best Candidates

00:00:00
Speaker 1: It's a tough sports not for everybody. You gotta be a little sick to love this game. And we got some picos.

00:00:05
Speaker 2: Welcome to NFL Daily, Saturday Sickos edition. And yes, NFL Daily is a place where you have to be a little sick to go through all the different men in the league that might be losing their jobs in the coming weeks. But we're not dunking on them. We're not celebrating the fact that it does really pique the interest I think of all the teams that are out of.

00:00:25
Speaker 1: The mix in the NFL.

00:00:26
Speaker 2: I'm Greg Rosenthal, I'm with Ali Connelly from the Read Optional podcast and sub stack. Are you ready to go through all of the coaching situations and then at the end get a little more positive talk about the candidates we might want to see get jobs in this cycle.

00:00:41
Speaker 3: I'm very ready. Maybe a couple of guys I have with Duncan, I think just a couple. It's a couple, hero that's fine. Some intriguing potential openings.

00:00:49
Speaker 2: Now now you're not technically like an employee of the NFL, so you can do that. That's what you're bringing from another continent that you're just feeling free and easy. Ihearts taking care of Ali. So you can say whatever you want about the Cleveland Browns. No, actually they have a good head coach. So here's what I'm gonna do to start the show. I'm just kinda break it up, and you can disagree with how I broke it up, but basically, go through all the situations that we think there's going to be a change or could be a change. Maybe come up with a number at the end of like the rough over under of how many coaching changes there's going to be, talk about some potential surprises, and then at the end we'll go through some of the candidates we think will be popular on this cycle. So I went with four definites. We'll call this he gone or you know they're already open. The Titans and the Giants, they've already made a change at head coach. And the other two I would put in this category would be the Cleveland Browns and the Las Vegas Raiders.

00:01:52
Speaker 1: You know, I've been wrong before, but.

00:01:56
Speaker 2: I just can't see a scenario where they bring back Kevin Stefanski. I believe they're going to do a full reboot in Cleveland in terms of the front office and the head coaching staff.

00:02:06
Speaker 1: Do you agree with that?

00:02:08
Speaker 3: I agree with that, and I think it's time Stefensk. I watched now and he just seems so fatigue and tired that to kind of get up and go again, I think is tough. And I think looking at the cycle in general, that I know he's probably going to be in the mix because of how Finn the other options out. But I would really advise Kevin Stefenski, know that he cares about my pen to go and do the year off stuff. Go and do the toll, Go and do the Mike mccot thing, Go and sit and do the McAfee show for you whatever, Go and do the Rabel thing. Get on someone's sideline for a year and just take a year out to chill, get yourself back in the next cycle. I think he's as ready to go as they are ready to move on. Yeah, I think that benefited Mike Rabel.

00:02:42
Speaker 1: I guess.

00:02:42
Speaker 2: I guess we'll never know what the Patriots would have looked like a year before if they had hired Vabel instead of Mayo. But it just makes logical sense. He's a two time Coach of the Year winner. Here's the thing, though we'll go through. There's not like slam dunk options to hire this year, and I think Kevin Stefanski will be high on some teams' list. But I think when you make the case for the Browns front office too, and you think, wow, this draft class is great, and then you look at the cap situation they're in next year, and if you actually just even remove the Deshaun Watson of it all, you know, the worst trade in the history of the NFL. They have so many veteran players that aren't going to be on the team next year or shouldn't be on the team next year that they're going to be paining that aren't even there, and that's all because of the front office and whatever their identity was, it's gone now, like that offensive line like does not exist anymore. So I think you need a total fresh start in Cleveland.

00:03:41
Speaker 3: I agree with you, because even the positives would be okay, we have a league leading defense. We know how up and down the Iziatia kind of some crucial contributors older or aging and probably won't be on the team next season. You've got to re sign them at fat deals. And then I think we just fall upoon Maybe Jim Schwaltz gets hired elsewhere, maybe you bring it in, you ed coach who doesn't want to work with Jim Schwoaltz, so trying to think that thing can sustain throughout. I think you just thank he Andrew Berry for drafting costs in Swiss and during Quinslon Judkins and Harold Finnen, and you see him on his way.

00:04:08
Speaker 2: Yeah. The Raiders are the other team here, and I do want I wonder if Jim Schwartz we didn't write him down as retreats, he certainly will be a popular defensive coordinator candidate. I wonder if Cleveland would even think about him. If they if they just want to elevate him and not get too funky, that wouldn't totally shock me. The Raiders are the other team here. I just can't see how Pete Carroll survives this. I think they'll keep the front office and give that front office a chance to make another head coaching higher. It's just been one of the most disorganized, like one and done looking seasons from the outside that I can imagine.

00:04:46
Speaker 1: Do you agree there?

00:04:47
Speaker 3: Yeah? I didn't think any way I could get Modus functional in Girodmeyo in New England. Somehow Pete one of the old time greats. Final way to Tepen and just the though process throughout. So they go from Tom Brady, who is running the organization. I get raiders funds all the time. I'm telling me he's not running the organization. You're overstating it. Pete Carroll at his press conference set this is Tom Brady's chance to run a franchise. So they go from Ben Jonson and Matthew Stafford as a package deal to Pete Carroll training for Gino Smith. He brings his buddy in from Michigan, John spy Tech, who worked with with the books. They draft their running back sixth overall and they turn him over to Pete's kid running the offensive line. The worst group and coaching job I've seen in fifteen years running an offensive line.

00:05:25
Speaker 1: So they do that.

00:05:26
Speaker 3: They make Chip Kelly the highest paid coordinator in the history of the sport. Whatever you think of Chip Kelly personality, skills, all that stuff, it'd be nice if you paid someone that much money to let them do the job they were hired to do. They bring back Patrick Grame, which I thought was a sensible idea, but then tell him to run not his defense, to run Pete's defense from like twelve years ago that's completely outdated. It is the most dysfunctional situation I think you could imagine. And the only thing I think you can hold on to to have some kind of overlay and some kind of a language continuity between the entire franchise will be to keep spy tech and reset again with the staff.

00:05:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is the time a year that you get a lot of reports in the media that are thinly veiled attempts to blame the coach or the front office. And we've had some of that in Vegas, but sometimes it's convincing, and you just made the convincing case of why Carol. Ultimately when you're looking at the draft picks too, that like some of these guys were were Carrol's guys that I'm okay blaming it on Carol for this year. Obviously, nothing is one hundred percent one guy's fault, but I'm okay with them redoing it.

00:06:30
Speaker 3: It's not his fault, but he's clearly the power center of the organization. The draft picks look like his draft picks from the end in Seattle, and yet then they don't play. So if the front office was like, could you please play the rookies anyway that we selected, he chooses not to play, and we get the weird reports where the rookies are trying out along the offensive line because the line stinks. Then he pulls it last second, being like, you know what, they're not very good and you just can't have that kind of stuff. And he was supposed to bring in organizational competence that was the point, then handed off to someone else after a couple of seasons. It's one of the biggest miss fives. I think we've seen in recent times that.

00:07:01
Speaker 2: The one last job does not work in the NFL. I do think it's a it's a young man's game, or at least like whatever you want to say when you're in your fifties and sixties on your second job.

00:07:12
Speaker 1: That that part of your career.

00:07:14
Speaker 2: I will get agis it reminds me a lot of the Mike Holmgren presidential era in Cleveland, not as a coach, when he was the front office guy in Cleveland. It's just like, yeah, Pete Carroll can buy a lot more boats now.

00:07:28
Speaker 3: I will say, though, I'm a big fun of the retread candidates more than consensus. Everyone likes like the hot young thing. I think if you look at the history of the league, whether it's Belichick in New England, Variable in New England, now Pete in Seattle, Gary Kubiak, I think there's a lot to be said for the retreat guys Stefenskiao be intrigued by, but I think they get the second chance. And you've always gotta have one year out. You got to go recharge, You go around, you prove your energy, you go and discover new ideas, you build a new, youngest staff around you. I think doing it at that age was a was a step too far.

00:07:58
Speaker 2: Hell, how about John Fox's Broncos making it to the Super Bowl. I don't know if that's a winner or not. Okay, now in my next category, and so that's four teams we have that I feel pretty confident about. Although the reporting in Cleveland in Vegas hasn't been clear. It just you've seen enough of these situations before to have a good feel the two. I'm leaning that there will be a change. I thought about putting the Falcons in the definite category. I did not, but I think Raheem Morris is certainly in trouble, and even though the reporting's been mixed in Arizona, I've just seen enough of these where when a team starts getting their teeth kicked in over and over at the end of the year, it's year three, which is supposed to be the big build year. Jonathan Gannon's a defensive coach. I've liked a lot of the things they've done over the last few years. It's been an interesting team to watch that I think overachieved for two years and then now underachieving this year. I just think the way this season is gone, I'd be a little surprised if Gannon is there, barring some three game winning streak at the end of the season, which can always change things.

00:09:01
Speaker 3: Even then, I think to the Rams game and for the entire second half they are completely blown out and the cameras just hold a month y. Austin full sat next to Michael Bidwell for like two straight hours and he's telling him, trust me, the roster is pretty good. Go look at the draft class, Will Johnson, Walton Nolan not bad. If you look at the defensive draft class, this isn't me, this is Jonathan, it's Nick and I think it's pretty clear those guys themselves are like looking for property in Miami or something like that, because it just feels like everything's checked out and it's done.

00:09:29
Speaker 1: I didn't.

00:09:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you figure Kyler Murray is done with this organization. That's assuming Austin for It is there, which I would tend to believe he'll get another chance. But you never know what the bid wells. The Cardinals have been an unpredictable organization over the years, and so like they have some pieces, they're not in the worst situation. Would you rather be the next head coach of the Falcons or the Cardinals?

00:09:54
Speaker 3: Falcons for division, not for the roster. If you gave me the roster straight up, I probably take the Cardinal want a push, but to be in the NFC South, I would prefer to be in the NFC West. Uh.

00:10:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is tricky.

00:10:06
Speaker 2: If you put the Cardinals even in the NFC South this year, who knows, we might be talking about just like a six and eight team that's vaguely disappointing but but got by because there were a lot of close losses early for that Cardinals team.

00:10:20
Speaker 1: Do you think they'll clean out? If you had to guess?

00:10:23
Speaker 2: Raheem and Terry Fontina Terry Fontinau. You know that would be a third head coach that he would get to hire if if they didn't. And I'm like holding out a little space here when we're doing this three weeks out that sometimes these final weeks can change things. These two teams actually play each other on Sunday, and if Atlanta ever got something going down the stretch, maybe Arthur Blank could could convince himself to give this group another chance.

00:10:49
Speaker 3: I would lean to Wed if I was off the Blank, I think I'd lean towards keeping Raheem and letting Terry go. I think Terry's the worst talent evaluate thor an executive in the NFL is flattering.

00:10:59
Speaker 2: Wow.

00:10:59
Speaker 3: I think he's about it, and I think his major key decision has proved that. And you can't have as many seismic bad decisions as he's had training a first round pick for James Pierce, giving them money, his Kirk Cousins, drafting Michael Pennix. Individually, they're all fireable offenses. He's got three of them on the rap sheet, and I do think Arthur Blank will sit back and look and say Bill Belichick disaster at North Carolina but that was kind of my door be option. This guy convinced me not to do it because he's scared of his own job and all of the staff around him, which I get self preservation understand. But maybe I should have taken door B and given it a chance. And so I think they'll do that now. I would be inclined to give Raheem one last go around, just because the options are pretty thin. I really respect him. I think what he's done defensively, Jeff Ulbrock has been pretty impressive remaking it and making it better than the sum of the parts Terry has given to him. So I'd be open to that eventuality. It's just hard to see that they would do kind of a nuclear reset at the front office scouting department and also keep the.

00:11:53
Speaker 2: Head coach you mentioned Obrok, who we didn't write down on our defensive guys. I mean this is a kind of a wide open group of candidates. Who knows he could get some looks, maybe even by the Falcons. Yeah, Raheem, I thought he'd be better second time around. I don't think it's crazy, but I also think it's dangerous when if you're looking for a general manager requiring him to keep the head coach that's there. It's always a little tricky, Okay. So if those two were gone, and I'm just leaning that way with Atlanta, that would that would be six, which maybe is around my over under. My next two teams where I'm leaning safe are the Bengals and the Jets. I think the Bengals should make a change. Do you agree that they should make a change.

00:12:37
Speaker 3: Oh, it's two years ovid was Zach Tayler, I think, and it's really triggered. I don't want to cyclee psychoanalyize Joe Burrow, the stuff going on, you know, the press conferences and all that jazz. If they're going to make a change, I think the easiest, most palatable one to make is to go and get Joe Brady from the Bills. I don't think every coaching candidate is a fit for every jomb I think those guys are very rare. I think Vrabel and Johnson the last cycle. Other than that, you're looking for a very specific guy for a very specific place based on what you have. I think someone needs to push Joe Borrow more than he's been pushed in his life, and the guy to do that would be the person he had the most success in his life with with Joe Brady LSU Joe Brady's evolved his style of offense. Joe Burrow desperately needs to accept and evolve his style of play as he kind of matures through the stage of his career. And so if you bring in a guy who really respects said the best time of his life with in college, I think that would be a really smart fit and a really smart change. Otherwise, I'm not sure to be worth as kind of ripping Zach Taylor out to have just put any name be in there.

00:13:35
Speaker 2: So Zach Taylor took a lot of questions at his last press conference about a report that his contract had been extended without it being reported previously until twenty twenty seven. So that would mean there would be two years left on the deal, that he would not be a lame duck coach next year, which was always a conversation towards the end of Marvin Lewis.

00:13:56
Speaker 1: Sometimes they let it go to the end.

00:13:58
Speaker 2: Sometimes they wouldn't in that and Marvin Lewis would just stay. I'm assuming that report is correct based on the way Zach Taylor answered the questions, which were non answers that made me really feel like he is going to be safe, and the people that cover that team generally don't think Duke Tobin, who really is the personnel chief, is in any sort of trouble that there's almost like a zero percent chance Duke Tobin would lose his job, and that Zach Taylor is not far off from that zero percent. You never know, though, Like I you just seen enough of these seasons end. They just lost two straight games to you know, Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson. If you happen to lose three more in a row to Quinn Yours, Jacoby Brissett and Sar Sanders, like, yeah, that might make it tough. So win some of these games. I know it shouldn't matter, but like if it did, I don't know.

00:14:46
Speaker 3: It feels like based on how they've upraateded the last year, like the most impactful guy in the building was low on a rum where they kicked him out. They blamed him for everything, So it feels like the logic doesn't play into things with them. Obviously it's heavily money based. It feels like it's really up to Joe Burrow if he does to knocked on the door and had the meeting. He could probably have the power to get this thing done. He had the power to make them go and build a roster in a ludicrous way in the modern game, because he wanted to keep all his pals around and pay him big money, get himself some big money. So could he just knock on the door and say, I think this thing is run? Its close? So that's why I'm unhappy playing the sport. If I had someone new and him, maybe I would enjoy it a little bit more. I think that's kind of where it sits, and I have not seen anything that would suggest the I mean, dark Dale lets Joe Borrow do everything he wants to do on offense. So does he really want to go and chase something new? I would hope that he does.

00:15:32
Speaker 2: The Jets are the other team. I just threw in here just because Florio, Mike Florio threw it out. I didn't knowing him working for him. There's probably something to that. I don't think he's just throwing it out. So that was surprising to me that he would even put that up as a possibility that Aaron Glenn could be won and done. But the Jets are as Chaotica a franchise and making these types of decisions as we have, So you can't can't totally rule it out. How have you felt about Aaron Glenn's first year post post Steve Wilkes fire.

00:16:05
Speaker 3: You now, Yeah, disaster. I think he should be one and done. I don't think they'll do it, and I think they've got to look at it now and say it's a different job than the one we hired him for. We hired him for this kind of like mini reset. We were going to sign Justin Fields as a bridge quarterback multi year deal. We think we've got young talent. The defense should be good, he's a defensive guy. It's been an abomination all the way around, both kind of the culture and the style and the environment there then the on field performance. They have players quitting all the time. I thought that linebackers quit in like week nine. Then Steve Wilkes leaks not very well that he believed the linebackers quit in like week twelve. He's a couple of weeks later to figure that out. And so it's now a job where it's a full on reset with this massive cash of ammunition to go and reinvigorate the franchise and do you want to turn that over to him now? You could nail the personnel decisions and then hand it off to someone else in a couple of years. I would just like to have a full reset and go again with the guy we think could be here six seven, eight years. And I just I just don't see what Glunn. Sometimes you just get the feeling and you know immediately like this is not going to work out for five six years. And I just have that feeling with Arton Glunn.

00:17:08
Speaker 2: You may you make a case, and it makes me think maybe it is more possible in general because of the history there. You mentioned the Steve Wilkes source. I think you're referring to the Justina Anderson tweet. But to assume that that was Steve Wilkes in the in the tweet in this that he was the source and it's a wild one. Check out Justina anderson jets tweet from this week. You would have to assume then that Steve Wilks is sort of talking in the third person about Steve Wilkes to Justina Anderson.

00:17:41
Speaker 3: He could all that is true. It could also be really bad reportage in which you're trying to cover up the source, but you accidentally leave two bits in the early part of the quote that reveals the source that that's been done before.

00:17:51
Speaker 1: I mean, their linebackers have been bad. I'll, i'll, I'll back up the linebackers.

00:17:56
Speaker 3: This is for the truth that go is one thing I always do towards the end of the season when teams I think acquitting is you go and you pull up their interception return tape. How interested are they in interception return? It tells you everything about a football team used to be kickoff stuff. We don't got that normal interception return. They don't even have an interception return to pull up the tape to find out if these guys care to actually play football anymore. And the interested in blocking is the sideline going crazy. A guy's racing out there to celebrate from the offensive side. You watch the Niners, just a decimated squad. You can go and find the Lnor interception against the Texans, everyone is trying to race out onto the field before the plays even over. They are so fired up and giddy to have got the ball, but everyone is looking for work. Everyone's punching up and stouts running all over the place. The Jets don't even have that. I went to look at passes deflected to see if those one those guys thought they had so then then they would get involved in the action. Don't even have that on film. So it's just a limp, lifeless defense to me, which is what he was brought in to completely regenerate. If that's the selling point, I think that's just been proven to be wrong.

00:18:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they had a moment.

00:18:57
Speaker 2: It was that victory over the Falcons, which is a very strange game if you watch that, where I thought, okay, Aaron Glenn has talked all year about the twenty twenty one Lions their first season there about how towards the end of the season. Yes, they started out with a horrible record with Jared Goffee lost his first seven games, but by the end of the season they were playing hard.

00:19:20
Speaker 1: You could see the vision.

00:19:22
Speaker 2: It was resulting in some wins, but you could just more see it on the field, and I thought, okay, that Falcons, when maybe this is the start of something. And yeah, in the two weeks since they've they've gotten absolutely destroyed and the defense has been a total disaster.

00:19:37
Speaker 3: It's the thing though, that that selling point of the Lions includes this idea that Dan Campbelly took play calling to Anthony Lenny took it for himself that he got Ben Jonson. So is the Steve Volk's a sacrificial lem to that because that happened way in the end. And Don Campbell's had a very clear vision fall when we are good, when we're playing in a title game, this is what the team will look like. And this isn't acceptable. It does not look like that right now. I don't get that vibe by firing GluN that he understands today what a Jets team under our and Glenn would look like in the AFC title game, and like we're racing towards that vision in the final four weeks. You'll kind of see the small embers of it.

00:20:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's also a team who I wouldn't you know?

00:20:13
Speaker 2: It's I rarely think the NFL teams are tanking because obviously the players on the field are playing for various reasons. Some of them are not giving great efforts, as you point out, but other others are and are on a you know, I think they're trying to win when they're out there, but they are playing Brady Cook this week. I should have noted on our preview show in a week where it does appear that Justin Field and or Tyrod Taylor might be available. So that's about as close to tanking as you really see.

00:20:39
Speaker 3: It is that and continue to play. Quincy Williams is like, oh boys, we're out of this thing.

00:20:44
Speaker 2: Okay, why don't we take a quick break just because I think this is a good spot for it. So we've gone over eight situations. We're leaning that there'll be about six gone. But Bengals and Jets are are a coupled to watch. I'm most fascinated in this cycle about the potential surprises because we could get some big names available based on how the end of the season goes. We'll talk a little bit about the Ravens, Colts, and Bills after the weak back on NFL Daily. If you're listening to this, it's probably Saturday. We got Saturday games. Maybe it's Sunday and they've already happened. We've got college football playoff games. I'm wearing my RMFW two lane sweatshirt, if you know. You know, So let's hope that it's going well in the alternate universe that you're listening to this Let's talk about what could be the most interesting part of this coaching cycle, and that's the teams with big name coaches where the last handful of weeks of the season could change things and maybe someone big shakes loose. And I'll start with the Colts, who I've asked around a little bit about, and I think there's a bigger chance that Shane Ssyken does not keep his job. Then the public would assume because a he's coached pretty well. I think considering their situation, you can see it. You saw the vision for it. Obviously with Daniel Jones. Everyone wants a good play caller. And then b you can't really blame this collapse on him when when all the players that were making it happen suddenly get hurt on defense, on offense, obviously what was happening. And so logically you're like, oh, yeah, you would keep Shane stykeen and who knows, maybe they will win some games with Philip Rivers, but assuming they don't make the playoffs, you would think he'd be safe. But I've talked to people and they basically view that as new ownership, Like, yeah, it's Jim Mersey's daughter, but she's gonna want her own people in there and put an imprint on the organization. On top of that, Chris Ballard's been there for a decade and this was always a win or else year. And even if about really bad luck is one of the reasons, if not the biggest reason they don't make the playoffs, that that there still would be a real chance that if they go from seven to one to eight and nine, she's not gonna care about why, and that she might be looking for a big fish or just to make a change.

00:23:15
Speaker 1: Do you think that would be the right move.

00:23:17
Speaker 3: I don't think it would be the right move. I agree with you, though. I've spoken to people on the cult side, on the coaching side, and there's real fifth that they think this is it and it's a rap. Really just don't normally expect from guys who were in the hunt for Coach of the Year where they all get little, you know, statues from the head coach for saying we all did a great job. That's where they thought this was ending up by the time they got to the Christmas party. That is not how it's feeling there right now. And it's a real shame because how could you have done any better than they did to open the season putting up historic stuff on offense, which is his main task. And I get what you're saying about the new ownership, and I agree with that. I mean, making the trade that it for Sauce God was a classic new owner move. Let's go all in. Let's not accept that our quarterbacks, Daniel Jones, Let's compromise the future for the now because we believe for a championship can and the one we're probably not. So I think that that kind of eraticism is to be expected when you get a new owe and so it wouldn't surprise me the Slights if they decide to move on.

00:24:08
Speaker 2: Look, Carly Ursa Gordon has impressed a lot of people with how she's operated, and if she was, you know, making a surprising decision, that would be in keeping with her father's legacy.

00:24:23
Speaker 3: Uh.

00:24:23
Speaker 2: Certainly at the beginning of his career with in Indianapolis, which was more of a disaster, and he's he's talked about how substance abuse affected that, and that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about someone who, yeah, just might have her own ideas of how she wants the organization to be running.

00:24:41
Speaker 1: It's ultimately up to her.

00:24:42
Speaker 3: The distinction here from the typical New Ownes syndrome like when the Walton's brought the Broncos and it's like, go and get us Russell Wilson. We're gonna go trade draft picks for the famous head coach robn do like a coaching search of the you own cool candidates. Is she has a football life. She's been working the football department since she was like a teenager. That is a bit different when you've lived through it, being through so many different regimes, anyway, she will have a good sense of what looks like it's working, well, what isn't. I think it's pretty hard to pin the current situation on the regime that's there, unless you're just saying that we looked into Daniel Jones in a sense that was never sustainable. We're only in that situation because of Chris Ballard, and then it would be hard to meet to say, well, I'm gonna blame sheen Stike. And also, but as always, it's hard to remove the coach. Sorry, keep the coach and remove the GM.

00:25:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe there's interpersonal dynamics you don't know about. You don't know like who's friends with who inside the building, how all the relationships are, and so there could be more to it. But just from the outside looking in, even if I'm blah on Ballard over the years, right now, they have a lot of pieces where continuity seems to make a lot of sense. And I include Anna Rumo in that, I include a lot of that offensive line that Ballard built in that, and that it makes sense with Stich and they got to figure out quarterback. But it to me, it seems like holding pat and giving this group one more year at least would be the way to go. The Ravens and Steelers, let's kind of blend them together. I do think that there's like a greater chance that one of these two head coaches are not back next year than probably conventional wisdom has it. The more stuff that came out about Tomlin, the more I thought, maybe Mike Tomlin doesn't want to be there.

00:26:30
Speaker 1: That's That's basically was my read on it.

00:26:33
Speaker 2: Whether he was kind of doing the old Parcels and Sean Payton playbook where they had a job and they had years left on their contract, but they were clearly making obvious to the rest of the NFL heye, does anyone want to come get me? That's just my read without asking around about that. When it comes to Tomlin, what do you think about the Steelers, Let's start there.

00:26:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I feel like I'm a broken breck on this. When the reason a guy keeps his job is the alls I have a here is how quick someone else would hire him. It's no longer a defense of the job he has in the place he currently is, and it is just every year like clockwork. And we had it this with a bit of a lucy use report that we're going to get the chef to up day, that a team is so willing to go and get Mike Tomlin. And then he signs a contract extension this year a little bit different with the oh there's an option and so he's safe for next year, but the option for the following year. What that makes me think he would be potentially available and would sign off on a trade to somewhere like the Giants, somewhere he respects, somewhere he thinks he could turn the thing around pretty quickly and kind of immediately move into just a better situation for the medium to that he's constructed himself where he currently is, and.

00:27:38
Speaker 1: I wonder where the Steelers are at in this.

00:27:40
Speaker 2: It seems like they would rather just well, let's just keep keeping him and even if there's shortcomings. They must see these reports out there. They're obviously more in tune with it than we are. And wonder if their coach has a wandering eye. And this is where you know how these seasons end mean everything. Unfortunately, I think that's short sighted to base it all on the last few games of the season when you have a track record of like what he is great at as a coach, and I think he could be someone that is better in another spot, but just needs he needs a refresh.

00:28:15
Speaker 1: Maybe the Steelers need a refresh.

00:28:16
Speaker 2: They finish at Detroit, at Cleveland, and then home for Baltimore. There's a pretty realistic scenario where they've clinched the division before even playing Baltimore. If the Ravens can't pull off wins here and so if the Steelers that have a home playoff game, and it's just hard for me to imagine that thing changing. If the Ravens don't make the playoffs, I think Harball's out. That's just that is just a total gut thought. It just feels like time. I personally think he probably should be out if they don't make the playoffs, And in general, it just feels like time. Doesn't mean he doesn't have a million strengths as a as a head coach and that he had a great run, but all runs have to end sometime. And I would think about, if I'm the owner there in the front office, do we want John Harbad being the head coach of Lamar Jackson his entire career.

00:29:07
Speaker 1: I kind of want to see something else.

00:29:09
Speaker 3: I just would you're in the camp of Mike mcdondall right, you just want to see Lamar with mcdoniel.

00:29:15
Speaker 1: I think, I mean that would be fun.

00:29:16
Speaker 2: That's I mean, you could suggest out of our other options, who else would be fun there? Like would Kevin Stefanski be fun there? I do think that's an organization where maybe the head coach is it's it's not like Pete Carroll and Seattle or anything. It's part of a larger operation and you slide ahead coach and Brian Billock to me, was not like leading that organization. And Harbaugh's been great at what he does, but sometimes it's the coordinators and it's everything else. It's a whole system. So let's let's just plug someone else in the system. We're not taking Lamar out, so let's let's plug that spot differently.

00:29:49
Speaker 3: I do imagine if they did it, it would be so within the family. I imagine that's why Jesse Mint would have his eye lays it on. He could go and do that.

00:29:56
Speaker 1: I'm with you.

00:29:57
Speaker 3: I think it's time. I think in both organizations is a real sense fatigue. I think particularly the Stealers have run out of ideas, but with the Ravens too, it feels like they're out of ideas and you could find a new voice that's within the family, which is pretty unusual for a team to get, and a team that cares about that stuff. And so I just think if Jesse Mint is available and he's going to be a head coach for fifteen years in the league, I'd want to be on that train early rather than hang around and go down the end of the cliff with Harbor here where we should be better than we are and we watch Jesse minta wander off somewhere else and have.

00:30:25
Speaker 1: A great career.

00:30:26
Speaker 2: Now, it would be really interesting if it was mintor head coach and the like kept Todd Munkin, because to me, I'm mostly thinking about, all right, who's going to maximize Lamar Jackson? Where are you at with the Todd Munkin experience, by the way.

00:30:39
Speaker 3: Not as impressive this year as in previous years. And I think about this with all coaches. I think people have a tendencies to say they are good they are bad. I think people have good seasons, bad seasons. People get tired, they run out of ideas, the cycle of the league and kind of ebb and flow in the way your philosophic nd of ovlays with the meta trends of the league. Someone like Vance Josep I talk about all the time I've been banging the drum for him to get a head job for like four seasons. I think it's gonna cycle lot of him being as useful as he is right now, and then you're going to hire him the tail end of the cycle where his defense was a real value add to have him running your team. And I feel like that with Munkin, where they've run a little bit of out of ideas. Obviously compromised by the offensive line Lamar's injury, He's not moved the same way, but it feels a little more stale compared to the previous few seasons.

00:31:20
Speaker 2: I'm informed here too by when they did fire Brian Billick, and people were surprised.

00:31:25
Speaker 1: I was a super Bowl champion, who wasn't you know? The team wasn't a disaster. They had a down year.

00:31:31
Speaker 2: Obviously, and I believed all the reports about how close John Harbaugh was to losing his job before Lamar Jackson essentially he saved it, and John Harbad knew from the minute Lamar started playing like that this is this is my guy. And he tried to support him, and he supported him publicly. But you just feel like that this organization, I think they've seen it and it's just been diminishedinguit turns now feels like the time then again, they could they they could win these games. They could they could win a couple of playoff games, and that would that would shut me up.

00:32:04
Speaker 1: I'd be a little surprised if that happened.

00:32:06
Speaker 3: And I think it's triggy Gus for the Steelers. I don't see a clear option that you would say we feel comfortable as if not. An upgrade is pretty similar and they've not done a coaching search since when like the twenties, like When's Lesson did an actual coaching search for a candidate, Whereas with the Ravens there is that kind of perfect middle ground of guy who seems me peeking at the right time, is ready for that coaching gig. He knows us when the sounds all language. As you said, we kind of plug a guy into the building rather than come and run in, you know, overhaul the whole building. So I think the timing just makes sense for the Ravens, get Lamar and you Voice, get a younger, more exciting, more innovative stuff. I think that would make sense for them.

00:32:39
Speaker 2: I'd be very surprised if former Eagles co worker Sean McDermott or Andy Reid are not back with their team, But I just thought i'd throw throw them out.

00:32:49
Speaker 1: There's a little red meat there. Just you never know.

00:32:52
Speaker 2: In any Reid's case, it would just be for him to make a decision that everyone that covers the team the most closely says it's just not happening. And he's signed an extin through twenty nine. You just never know at his age, if he would decide to step down. That's very unlikely. McDermott's a little different. They're playing well right now, it's very easy to imagine them winning playoff games, maybe even making the super Bowl, and making this conversation move, but in a different world where let's say they finish twelve and five or eleven and six and they lose in the first round.

00:33:24
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts about the Bills situation?

00:33:27
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I was more on the McDermott should leave train last offseason, where I thought you could maybe go and get one of the super innovative offensive coach and just pet up with Alan. Could you go and be the bench If that job was available, every coach in the lane would be lining up to go take it. You could have brought Ben Johnson in. I think with the candidate pool this year, I'd be more inclined to just give it one more season. I think mcdermot's I had just done a very impressive coaching job. On game days, the game plans are being a bit of a whiff over time, but I think that personnel is pretty poor and it's grossly overstated, often because of McDermott and because of Josh Allen, and it's more of a talent evaluation issue than it is a game day coach issue. He may take the fall if they fall shot in the playoffs, but I think he's coached pretty well himself on game days this year and deserves another show.

00:34:09
Speaker 1: I agree, I would lean pretty heavily towards keeping him.

00:34:14
Speaker 3: Trying to think, I guess it's the history of the league is that guys don't stay together this long and than win that first one. It's just that simple. And it's the same with Harbor and Lamar Jackson. You just don't see it where I coach quotes by combination go six, seven, eight years and finally breakthrough. And so if you're looking at history of league now Josh Allen is different, maybe you could do it. Maybe does break through this year. That would certainly be in my mind if I was running the team, that a new voice could could be impactful.

00:34:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good call in terms of like the QB conversation, I mean the QB quarterback combination that it tends to happen earlier. But he's a tricky one McDermott because I'm trying to think of the perfect quarterback cup. Maybe it's Jared Goff like just in terms of where he is in the pecking order like obviously there are coaches that are out of level. Sean McDermott's I don't think ever gonna get to as in terms of being a complete difference making head coach. But yeah, like go find a better quarterback than Jared Goff, It's not going to be that easy for you to do.

00:35:12
Speaker 3: So.

00:35:13
Speaker 2: I don't know if like McDermott's that high, and coaches I think are ultimately a little easier to fine than quarterbacks. But there's a big risk if you decide to move on that it could it could certainly go worse on the.

00:35:25
Speaker 3: Read thing quickly is that I find that fascinating because this is a dynasty on like any other where they've experienced no brain dream. The only guy to leave is Eric b Enemy, and that was partly a mutual decision, right to go and chase the next Roe of the job. Lot of we've not had before where they have had in combination, the greatest offensive designer of his lifetime, the greatest defensive coordinator of his generation, the best offensive line coach of his generation, and maybe the best special teams coach of his generation altogether at once all the way through, they look so out of ideas this season. And I feel like if Reid doesn't go, I'll be very much open to and I would hope someone like Patch one will go and say we need new young fresh faces. Usually that self manages itself because everyone leaves, everyone left Saban, everyone left Belichick. You got to go find new people. They've almost put themselves into this book. It where it's the same guys all the time, the same voices. So if Reid doesn't go, I do think they've got to say Matt Nage, you're out. Someone else that is kind of shocking, You're out. Maybe Steve Spagnola takes a new job. But particularly on offense, I think they desperately need new young voices.

00:36:25
Speaker 2: It's a great and weird point about their continuity, which has been such a strength for them, and like they're not going to change their offensive line coach.

00:36:33
Speaker 1: But I think you're right that some new fresh voices would be great.

00:36:38
Speaker 2: And you think about all the other teams that are been less successful, the Rams certainly basically anyone in that coaching tree, but the Ravens too. Like the Ravens have been cycling through coordinators forever, especially on defense, because they get better jobs and that just hasn't happened.

00:36:53
Speaker 1: All right, Spagnola is one of the rechreds. Let's go through it. You helped divide the list up of.

00:36:58
Speaker 2: Potential candidates into different categor so we'll start with the retreads and I'll throw Jim Schwartz in there too, Although to me he'd be a long shot. I guess to get another head coaching job, Spags would be interesting. I do think there could be an appetite for him getting some interviews, and the Giants specifically would would be an interesting fit for him. I've listened to Chris Long on his podcast in the past saying, like, man, it wasn't Spag's fault in Saint Louis. No one was gonna win in that situation. Like we feel bad that, Like Spags is such a good coach that we let him down and there is a possibility he could be better the second time around. But we have McCarthy, Robert Sala I think could be a guy who gets interest Brian Flores. If if organizations can can look past the you know, lawsuit between Flores and the league vance Joseph you already touched on Ballichick, I guess we could throw in there Stefanski. Like a lot of names, who who kind of stands out? Who do you want to start with there?

00:37:56
Speaker 3: The one that stands out to me, I don't know if you've read him up there is Mike McCarthy. I think there's not a huge distinction between the resumes of Mike McCarthy and Sean Payton, And yet Sean Payton was heralded because he's friends with everyone in the media, is being like the guy you gotta go trade draft picks for. Mike McCarthy's just available now. The third go round coach is a slightly different than the second go round coach, and I do accept that, But putting him in a place like Tennessee, where it's just a complete disaster behind the scenes, there is not a level of accountability, a level of competence, I think him being a kind of bridge guy for young quarterback would make a lot of sense, whether it's there where it's the Giants, somewhere like that, where it's like, let's just stabilize, be normal, be ordinary for two seasons, and then when we want to go and shoot for the moon, we can thank Mike for laying the foundations and go find someone else.

00:38:39
Speaker 2: Not too different from really what happened in Dallas, although they did win a lot of games. Yeah, third time around, I'm a little surprised. I appreciate what you're saying. I feel like, if Ali's actually running a team, he gives McCarthy an interview, he leaks it out to the media that he's one of the three finalists because he feels bad for him or likes him like he does genuinely like him, but he doesn't hire him.

00:39:00
Speaker 3: Oh no, no, no, no no, I would not do that. That's true. It's tough because the kind of general picture of the candidate's list is the retreads and the guys who have the most cachet. The first of all, I hate the way we high head coach, which is which coordinator was good last year? Just makes no sense. Why guys fail all the time? Do they have the right schools and stuff to run a building? Is how I would interview the guys most than just which coordinator did well. But the offensive guys where it gets tricky. Everyone wants one of these offensive gurus, one of these offensive minds. They're all looking for Ben Johnson and Liam Cohen. It's just pretty dry. If it's not Cliff Kingsbury. It's guys who are twenty, like Grant Yudensky or Declan Doyle, or guys who've been the league two or three seasons because they're in college, so it's tough to find people who fit, which is where you just kind of a light. I think if you're just going through offensive pecking order and you're not in the Kingsbury world, that's just not your vibe trying to re establish a building. That's when I think you hit on. Mike McCarthy's like the faults, saying this isn't the best cycle. We had to move on from Brian Callaghan. Let's give it to Mike for a couple of seasons.

00:39:55
Speaker 2: I could see it between those other guys are Spags second time around, f Laura's second time around, Salah, the defensive guys, Vance, Joseph.

00:40:04
Speaker 1: Who would you like the most?

00:40:07
Speaker 3: I always want to go for Vance. I'll say Van, so it's out there publicly because I really want him to get a cracker doing it again. The guy I would hire if my owner approved, you know, interviewing the guy that he's suing him currently would probably be Flores. I think he's got the best rolodex to build the staff around him. I do worry about putting him back in charge of a whole facility and what that may do, and what it was like in Miami. Everyone says he's calmed down. It's not as bad as it used to be. When the pressure gets mounting and it's stressful and you're not sleeping and you're in charge of travel again, might be different. But I think he would be one of the defensive guys who could find the stream of young offensive minds. You keep getting picked off the staff every season. You've got to keep refreshing that the way someone like McDermot has had to do. I think Flores of those guys would be the guy I take the punt on.

00:40:53
Speaker 2: And the reality is other than if the Ravens job opens up. It's not like there's these ready made jobs where you have a strong front office and ownership situation. Every one of these jobs is going to have different challenges. I guess Austin Ford is probably going to be in place in Arizona, but even that, you just look at the history there.

00:41:16
Speaker 1: He'd be the most fun to watch.

00:41:19
Speaker 3: The highest floor is of Robert Seller. I think Robert Sala will always get you in his second go round to seven wins and that's the floor. Is he and a guy who can put you over the top. There's been so much brain drain from the people he's work with. But I did not love even though he's doing a very good job this season with the tools available, not taking the year off, if I was going to hire him and not going and getting outside of his comfort zone going back to the Niners. So I think he's an outstanding coach, excellent defensive guy, could be the Spags of his generation. Just be the guy everyone wants to hire as the defensive coach out have loved him to do a year out and go and survey all the college campuses and go and find all the cool new ideas bringing him in and just becomes a fact. Similar if that Jets job again and he brings a little loll back with him, which have a la flow brothers rolling around, I wouldn't be interested in that.

00:42:04
Speaker 2: Jeff l There's not that many Laflair brothers. Mike Michaelfler, NFL daily guest at training camp back in August. All right, the defensive guys, then the young guys minter to me, seems like the top guy and will get a lot of interviews in this spike in this cycle. Other possibilities, Chris Schulo will probably get attention from Los Angeles, Like he's a younger coach that hasn't had a lot of like experience, like in front of the podium, and like there will be questions of like, Okay, how can he lead an entire organization that's fair for most of these first time coaches.

00:42:42
Speaker 1: Anthony Weaver could get looks.

00:42:44
Speaker 2: He's the defensive coordinator with Miami, Jeff Hafley the defensive coordinator for the Packers, You're beloved Lou and Arumo with the Colts right now, and then Anthony Campaneely. I think that's a probably a year or two ahead from him really getting attention, but has done a good job with the Jaguars. Why do you think it sounds like Minter would be an interesting pick.

00:43:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think he's a superstar. I think he's one of the special ones hiding out there. It's the perfect age, perfect ideas, perfect pipeline of coaches, whether it's any of the guys that are left at Michigan or is the people who could pick off the Chargers' staff and just has an unbelievable feel already for what a good program should look and sound like, does really cool things around the facility that is not traditional NFL stuff that I know he's implemented with the Chargers that I think you could take into an organization and would improve the masterly. Iically don't think he's the kind of schematic guru in the way he's builders like Mike McDonald. It's a lot more basic than the stuff Seattle do. But whenever I've watched him talk and speak and work at coaching clinics and things like that, it just jumps off the screen that he operates at a different level and the organization and the principles I just think looks, smells sound like a guy who's got the goods.

00:43:57
Speaker 2: I think Anthony Weaver has a little bit of that at where if he's in the room, I think he'll impress ownership and that he does make sense as a guy who's done a good job. Schematically, they're in Miami, They're not amazing, but he certainly has done a solid job.

00:44:14
Speaker 1: But a guy that you could see kind of leading an organization.

00:44:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought that last cycle. I thought he'd be the sneaky higher I thought the Jets would look in that direction. That one. He would blow people away once he got in the room. I think this one is tough and cramped because you've got Minter and Shola, and then you maybe have the retreads of Salagate's one. You start running out of jobs where you become the guy who impressed the interview. We didn't mention, by the way, during the jobs the Miami Dolphins. If there's a shoeler available and the Dolphins job is available, then all of a sudden, you start looking at that one. Though. I think I do think the Stephen Ross would go big game hunting if they decide to do that. But you're so in on just mcdoniel's staying.

00:44:51
Speaker 1: I guess no, I'm an idiot. This is why you need an editor. Give me a break. How did we go through the whole episode? How did no one see this?

00:44:59
Speaker 2: I went through all the I must have just been so sick of talking about the Dolphins situation all week. Oh, I think he's gone. I think there's been a lot of you know, talk that they would like to keep him, and I think it depends on who you're talking to there necessarily, and it just it just doesn't make logical sense that they're going to essentially require the next GM to keep Mike McDaniel. It's possible, and it's not the craziest idea ever, Like, he has strengths as a head coach, but he would be on my leaning gone list.

00:45:37
Speaker 1: So I'm glad you fixed that whole. Thank you.

00:45:40
Speaker 3: I would go with leaning gun with him too. I understand the reasons why you would consider it. You say, we think we've got a guy who is a false multiplier as an offensive designer. What if you had a real pro quote back that that seems sounds pretty good, sounds better than some of the options out there. And options are it's defense Ski, it's you Didnski, a twenty eight year old running off building, or it's Might mcdoniel. I can see how you could talk yourself into that, just the way Steven Ross is. I assume he will go. He'll go chasing a big name on the market.

00:46:09
Speaker 2: Okay, so the big names there aren't many that are offensive guys right now. Cliff Kingsbury, you mentioned Udinski is one of the youngest, maybe the youngest coordinator in the league.

00:46:19
Speaker 1: For Jacksonville.

00:46:21
Speaker 2: I do think Liam Cohen people are gonna just want to get a piece of what Liam Cohen has been doing after really a skyrocket in terms of his status within the league the last couple of years. Declan Doyle. You mentioned who's with the Bears right now, but it's guys I have a hard time imagining get serious looks Clayton Adams, maybe with Dallas who's helped to design their running game. Mike kaff guy I think has a chance for New York to keep the Giant's job, but it just hasn't gone well as an interim, so that's not going to help him.

00:46:56
Speaker 1: Among those offensive guys who catches.

00:47:00
Speaker 3: It's pretty tough. I love Clayton Adams, I have a hard time seeing him stepping up to the top podium at this stage. And that's where it's just tight. I would be if you're taking the swing for the fence, if you're the titsans just saying we stink, but we think we got the quarterback. Let's just go and take a punt on having Sean McVeigh, that's where I would look at doing that. You didn't ski now. I don't love the idea of a twenty nine year old running the whole team, that that would be concerning. But of those guys you see and look and go, he seems different to all the other guys who come through as they stood near McVeigh, those type of coaches, whether it's a LA floor, whoever it is, he does feel a little bit different. So if you're taking a swing, that's the guy I take the swing on.

00:47:42
Speaker 2: I mean, the thing about the whole they stood near, like McVeigh hires, is they've mostly worked. I mean that's the hit rate has been way higher than a normal head coaching. That that's where I think Nate Nate Schielhaus with the Rams has a chance. He's only been the league two years, which again you wouldn't want necessary running the whole thing. But if you're looking for the guy who stood him, surely gets a lot of the attention for that. But if you're leading, well, we really want the offensive stuff that Sean does. That's kind of why we're interviewing you. He's older, he's a bit more experienced, so I could see him being a real outside hire. The other one would be Davis Webb, who I think if you're going again, the young got to take a swing route. We're not interested in Mike McCarthy and retraid offensive mine. Cliff Kingsbury is not our style of just dude around the office. I think Davis Webb probably has a little bit more experiences being in multiple buildings. I think we'll come across really well in the interview, so I could see him being a kind of an outside hire. But once you get past to those guys, you're into the Clint Kubiak, which just isn't for me. You're into Todd Munkin, which feels like maybe you're doing it ten years too late.

00:48:42
Speaker 3: As a head coach in the league. That would have to be a we're making him the head coach of the Ravenscauz Lamar wants some situation to me, or he's gone with Josh All on the Bills like a premier quarterback and he can just kind of add on to the top there rather than turning a team around.

00:48:56
Speaker 1: And you mentioned Davis web just for the listeners. He is.

00:49:00
Speaker 2: I wanted to get his title right for the Broncos, the offensive pass the offensive pass game coordinator, and the quarterbacks coach. I knew he was the quarterbacks coach there and had some other title where they now like split coordinator titles like among three People.

00:49:14
Speaker 1: He also authored.

00:49:17
Speaker 2: Like that terrible tush not toush push but QB sneak Remember from like ninety nine yards away?

00:49:24
Speaker 1: Am I am? I crazy to remember that? That's why it was a sad moment. I mean, he's only thirty years old.

00:49:28
Speaker 2: I was like, that was only a couple of years ago that Davis Webb was making sad starts for the Giants.

00:49:34
Speaker 3: So, but this is the thing, when we talking about the other jobs they come open. Everyone wants to get rid of that coach. I get it, you think they're a bozo. If you want to get rid of the coach because you want to go chase the next offensive mind, you're really tapping out pretty quickly. Unless you want to take a swing on a guy who's being the league two oh three years or a guy who's just incredibly young even though he's coach his entire life. Those are pretty big risks to take of you. You're going to have players who were significantly older than your head coach stood in front of the room.

00:49:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, there is.

00:50:00
Speaker 2: There are not a lot of obvious offensive options. Even among the retreads. They're mostly defensive coaches. I guess I can't have Ali on without you know, asking if Justina's reporting. You know, she had more on Thursday morning that there's multiple high up people with a couple of organizations who are at least sort of considering maybe giving Bill Belichick a call. I can't imagine, well, I definitely can't imagine he gets a job. But do you even think he gets a real deal interview in this cycle.

00:50:33
Speaker 3: Real deal interview? I'm not sure a phone call. I think yes, And I think that's the Falcons, and I think that probably already took place to gauge interest. I think that Dori Dorby thing for off the blank is like a real thing that he doesn't know why you went down one after the fact, So I think the calls will take place. I could not see it happening.

00:50:52
Speaker 2: That just would be sad times for the Falcons to hire Bill Belichick ten years after twenty eight to just very Falcons, that was great. We will be obviously tracking all the coaching news throughout the next couple of weeks on NFL Daily. Ali, I won't talk to you on the show before Christmas, So have a great Christmas, and for everyone listening. We obviously have many more shows before Christmas. We will be back on Sunday Night to Yes recap those big time Saturday games, including that Bears Packers I cannot wait for that, and then Yes, Jags Broncos to me is just fascinating on Sunday along with Ravens Patriots. We will see you there in the Chris Westling Podcast Studio recapping it all