Podcast Extra: Market Differentiation Through Regenerative Agriculture - John Kempf Keynote

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So, Ivo, thank you for your very

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warm hospitality, for opening

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your location to hosting us,

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and

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thank you all for all of you

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being here. You know, there's a

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part of me that

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I recognize that there's an

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almost complete certainty that

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every person in this room knows

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more about wine grape production

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than I do.

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So, why am I up here?

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There are a number of pieces.

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We've had a lot of fun working

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with Ivo, working with Greg

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Pennyroyal, and others here in

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the room as well over the last

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half a dozen years or more.

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And we've

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really enjoyed working with wine

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grape producers because we were

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just having a conversation here

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a little bit before we got

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started.

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And I made the comment that

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there are, in our experience,

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there are three groups

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of

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producers. of growers who have a

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more sophisticated understanding

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of plant physiology and plant

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management than anyone else that

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we get to work with.

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Those are the wine grape

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growers,

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the giant pumpkin growers,

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and the cannabis growers.

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Those three groups dig deeply

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into understanding plant

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physiology, and I'm sure that

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the

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possibilities of addiction have

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nothing to do with any of those

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three.

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But the,

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you know, wine grapes are one of

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the very few crops that actually

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gets paid for producing quality,

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and

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They're also one of the very few

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crops that has,

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I shouldn't say the few crops,

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but wine grape production has

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one of the most direct

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analogs or the most direct

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transfers between the integrity

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of the microbiome that is in the

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soil and the final harvest, the

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quality of the final harvest

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itself.

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There are very few crops who

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have that direct of a

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connection.

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And so

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it is, intriguing to think about

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what

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has happened with agriculture

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and agronomy over the last seven

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or eight decades

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is, as we well know, agronomy

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and contemporary agricultural

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practices have completely

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divorced plant

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production from biology.

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We've taken a very chemistry

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-centric perspective to growing

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crops, and we've thought about

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plant nutrition in terms of

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nitrogen and phosphorus and

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calcium and manganese and so

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forth without considering

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biology.

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And yet,

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it is that exact biology we now

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are understanding very clearly,

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that it is that biology that

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delivers terroir,

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that delivers quality, that

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delivers flavor and complexity.

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But the challenge,

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kind of the foundational

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challenge of regenerative

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agriculture and this approach to

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taking a biology -centric

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approach,

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if we had to compress it all

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down to one challenge, it's

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simply this.

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How do we grow plants and

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provide nutrition with biology

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Let me see if I can rephrase

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this or reframe this.

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How can we provide adequate

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nutrition without suppressing

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biology?

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Because mainstream agricultural

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approaches are about supplying

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nutrition in the forms of

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fertilizers and soil oxidation

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with tillage and so forth.

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And they all have the effect of

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suppressing soil biology,

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the exact thing that we desire

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to optimize.

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And so this is kind of the

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nucleus, the foundation bottom

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line, is how do we develop an

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agronomic approach

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that

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provides plants with all the

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nutrition they need and enhances

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biology at the same time.

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That's the foundational essence.

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We can figure that piece out.

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Everything else flows from there

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all on its own.

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One of the experiences that

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really caused me to question

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what I was learning about plant

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nutrition was watching,

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observing tree growth at

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a park that's about 10 or 15

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miles from where I grew up.

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So we're not far from the

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border, the glaciation border,

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about 15 miles or so from where

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I grew up.

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We have a small local park

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that's called Nelson Ledges

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State Park.

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And Nelson Legis,

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the glaciers drop this large

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sheet of rock that's about 15 to

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18 feet thick, and it covers

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about 10 to 15 acres.

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There's just a single sheet of

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rock. And now,

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of course, as the sheet of rock

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was dropped, it cracked and

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broke up, and there's fissures

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and cracks and crannies where

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young boys can jump across and

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go crawl in between and have all

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kinds of fun with.

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Luckily, our mothers never got

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to see.

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But what was fascinating to me

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was

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is here we have this

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flat,

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this bare sheet of rock.

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There is no topsoil.

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There never has been topsoil.

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And we have trees growing out

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the surface of the rock and on

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the edges. And there's these

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tree roots going all down along

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the edges of the rocks and these

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trees are solidly attached.

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And there are oak trees and

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hickory trees and maple trees,

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your typical eastern hardwood

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forest. The trees are anywhere

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from 12 to 24 inches in

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diameter. These are not small

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trees and they do not look to be

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deprived of nutrients.

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They have very large leaves,

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very healthy canopy.

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And I had always imagined

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that

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these trees must be getting

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relatively poor nutrition and

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not growing very rapidly.

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There were several trees that

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were right on the edge of the

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rock sheet that were growing at

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an angle.

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and we used to walk out or climb

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out those tree trunks and drop

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down the 10 to 12 feet.

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Well the park didn't consider

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that to be a safe activity so

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there's

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was to cut those tree trunks

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off.

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So I started looking at the tree

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trunks. There are tree trunks

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that are 12, 16 inches in

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diameter, and their growth rings

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are every bit as large as the

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growth rings in the forest or

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where the trees are growing in

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soil.

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And that,

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as you might imagine, started

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asking lots of questions.

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Well, where are these trees

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getting their nutrients from?

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Where's the calcium and the

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magnesium and the phosphorus and

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the potassium coming from to

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grow trees of this size?

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and at this rate of growth

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because supposedly these

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trees should be nutritionally

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deficient.

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And since that observation, this

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is now 25 years ago,

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I've

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observed trees

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in many different locations

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throughout Canada, throughout

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the Rockies.

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We have many instances of

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substantial tree growth where

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there is no topsoil and there

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has never been topsoil.

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And while

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that leads to a few interesting

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observations,

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one of them

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is the realization that when we

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measure dry matter of a plant,

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greater than 90 % of it, in many

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cases 95 % of it, comes from the

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atmosphere. It doesn't come from

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the soil.

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This cellulose, this wood fiber,

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is carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen.

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There is very minute mineral

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content.

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But we understand that the

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mineral content, the nutrient

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content, is the catalyst that

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drives the creation of

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everything else.

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And obviously these trees still

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have to get nutrition from

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somewhere.

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And that led,

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there was,

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Here in California, back in the,

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I want to say in the 40s and

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50s,

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this lady's name is escaping me

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right now.

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Bargilia Retever wrote

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a fascinating book with her

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husband titled The Organic Soil

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Primer.

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And they described observing

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under the microscope, they

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described observing plant cells

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absorb entire bacterial cells.

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in

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the 1940s.

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And that research was buried.

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Nobody talked about it.

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But she was describing this

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process. It was known to occur

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in animal cells.

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This process was termed

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endocytosis.

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Plants capturing and

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encapsulating entire bacterial

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cells and using them as a source

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of nutrients.

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While that was then ignored and

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disregarded in

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our approach to nutrition

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management over the following

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decades,

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But I remembered,

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I enjoyed,

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I was fascinated by that

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observation.

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And then also learning about how

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biology,

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fungi,

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lichens,

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algae,

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and a variety of different

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organisms could etch minerals

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out of rock and provide them to

297
00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:34,000
plants,

298
00:08:34,350 --> 00:08:35,690
as long as

299
00:08:36,350 --> 00:08:38,129
those microbes were supplied

300
00:08:38,129 --> 00:08:39,470
with adequate amounts of energy,

301
00:08:39,570 --> 00:08:40,629
with adequate amounts of sugar.

302
00:08:41,750 --> 00:08:42,549
So

303
00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:44,440
that,

304
00:08:44,980 --> 00:08:46,039
We had some interesting

305
00:08:46,039 --> 00:08:47,659
experiences on the farm at home.

306
00:08:47,860 --> 00:08:49,480
I've talked about those enough.

307
00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:51,240
I'm not going to go into more

308
00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,039
detail on the shifts that

309
00:08:53,039 --> 00:08:53,839
happened there.

310
00:08:54,610 --> 00:08:55,409
But

311
00:08:55,529 --> 00:08:57,430
I want to talk about this

312
00:08:57,430 --> 00:08:59,309
realization that came up in the

313
00:08:59,309 --> 00:09:01,110
last half a dozen years from

314
00:09:01,519 --> 00:09:03,759
James White's work at Rutgers

315
00:09:03,759 --> 00:09:05,139
University. How many of you have

316
00:09:05,139 --> 00:09:06,360
not heard of the rise of aging

317
00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:07,159
cycle?

318
00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:09,700
Oh, yes. This is my type of

319
00:09:09,700 --> 00:09:10,500
people.

320
00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:12,720
Almost everyone has.

321
00:09:12,779 --> 00:09:13,579
This is awesome.

322
00:09:14,430 --> 00:09:15,669
I am going to talk about it

323
00:09:15,669 --> 00:09:16,789
again, even if you've heard it

324
00:09:16,789 --> 00:09:17,589
before,

325
00:09:17,529 --> 00:09:19,250
because we've learned some new

326
00:09:19,250 --> 00:09:20,289
things about the Rhizophagia

327
00:09:20,289 --> 00:09:22,029
cycle just in the last year that

328
00:09:22,029 --> 00:09:23,569
our understanding of what is

329
00:09:23,569 --> 00:09:24,470
happening here

330
00:09:24,779 --> 00:09:26,680
is continuing to improve.

331
00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:27,759
So

332
00:09:30,919 --> 00:09:33,120
about now almost two decades

333
00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:33,919
ago,

334
00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:35,080
a team of

335
00:09:36,039 --> 00:09:38,700
folks in academia led by James

336
00:09:38,700 --> 00:09:40,000
White at Rutgers University

337
00:09:40,700 --> 00:09:42,139
started studying and trying to

338
00:09:42,139 --> 00:09:43,700
understand how plants were

339
00:09:43,700 --> 00:09:44,500
absorbing,

340
00:09:44,759 --> 00:09:46,919
how undomesticated plants were

341
00:09:46,919 --> 00:09:47,719
getting nutrition.

342
00:09:48,389 --> 00:09:49,830
Because they had a parallel,

343
00:09:50,029 --> 00:09:51,389
James had a parallel observation

344
00:09:51,389 --> 00:09:52,750
in mind that there were many

345
00:09:52,750 --> 00:09:54,549
cases in these wild ecosystems

346
00:09:54,549 --> 00:09:57,889
where the volume of plant growth

347
00:09:58,139 --> 00:10:00,240
seemed entirely disproportionate

348
00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:01,580
to the amount of nutrients that

349
00:10:01,580 --> 00:10:02,820
were readily available in soil.

350
00:10:07,450 --> 00:10:08,730
identified that

351
00:10:09,259 --> 00:10:12,500
as a plant root tip is growing

352
00:10:12,500 --> 00:10:13,899
through the soil, that open root

353
00:10:13,899 --> 00:10:15,500
tip is actually quite porous.

354
00:10:16,389 --> 00:10:18,610
And it can absorb, we now

355
00:10:18,610 --> 00:10:20,289
understand that it can absorb

356
00:10:20,289 --> 00:10:21,730
cells from at least three

357
00:10:21,730 --> 00:10:22,730
different types of organisms.

358
00:10:22,870 --> 00:10:24,629
It can absorb bacterial cells,

359
00:10:25,190 --> 00:10:26,730
it can absorb microalgae,

360
00:10:27,110 --> 00:10:29,549
and it can absorb fungi as well.

361
00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:31,700
Those three can directly

362
00:10:31,700 --> 00:10:33,580
penetrate and be absorbed in

363
00:10:33,580 --> 00:10:35,220
this porous growing root tip.

364
00:10:36,659 --> 00:10:37,459
And

365
00:10:38,159 --> 00:10:39,019
then,

366
00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,259
As these microbial cells move

367
00:10:42,259 --> 00:10:43,600
back from the growing root tip,

368
00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:45,200
they're transported through the

369
00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:46,000
plant,

370
00:10:45,990 --> 00:10:47,230
a couple of things can happen.

371
00:10:47,629 --> 00:10:48,769
One of the things that happens

372
00:10:49,049 --> 00:10:52,470
is there's

373
00:10:52,470 --> 00:10:54,309
a zone within the first couple

374
00:10:54,309 --> 00:10:55,450
inches of the growing root tip

375
00:10:55,450 --> 00:10:57,480
that is a very highly oxidized

376
00:10:57,480 --> 00:10:59,259
zone where the plant releases

377
00:10:59,259 --> 00:11:01,639
nitrous oxide and reactive

378
00:11:01,639 --> 00:11:02,539
oxygen species.

379
00:11:03,700 --> 00:11:06,399
to strip the cell membranes from

380
00:11:06,399 --> 00:11:07,360
some of these bacteria,

381
00:11:07,740 --> 00:11:09,080
mostly bacterial cells.

382
00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:10,240
So they strip the cell

383
00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:11,039
membranes.

384
00:11:11,259 --> 00:11:12,480
They both utilize the cell

385
00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,419
membranes directly as a nutrient

386
00:11:14,419 --> 00:11:15,720
energy source, but they also

387
00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,500
then utilize the components of

388
00:11:18,500 --> 00:11:19,899
these now naked cells.

389
00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,480
But this only happens for a

390
00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:23,399
fraction of the cells.

391
00:11:23,500 --> 00:11:24,720
It happens for a large

392
00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:25,840
proportion, but not for all of

393
00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:26,639
them.

394
00:11:26,909 --> 00:11:27,870
We now have

395
00:11:28,659 --> 00:11:30,980
some of these bacterial cells.

396
00:11:31,180 --> 00:11:32,299
I'm going to...

397
00:11:32,519 --> 00:11:33,620
Actually, let me finish part of

398
00:11:33,620 --> 00:11:34,419
this journey here.

399
00:11:38,269 --> 00:11:39,590
So what happens with the

400
00:11:39,590 --> 00:11:40,629
majority of the cells

401
00:11:41,070 --> 00:11:43,870
is whether they are now naked,

402
00:11:44,149 --> 00:11:45,169
missing a cell membrane, or

403
00:11:45,169 --> 00:11:46,009
whether they still have their

404
00:11:46,009 --> 00:11:47,970
cell membrane, they now move

405
00:11:48,669 --> 00:11:50,470
throughout the entire plant's

406
00:11:50,470 --> 00:11:51,269
vascular tissue.

407
00:11:52,009 --> 00:11:54,090
They move. There is no location

408
00:11:54,090 --> 00:11:55,110
within the plant that they do

409
00:11:55,110 --> 00:11:55,909
not go.

410
00:11:56,100 --> 00:11:57,220
They go into seeds.

411
00:11:57,669 --> 00:11:58,509
into fruits,

412
00:11:58,889 --> 00:12:01,090
into leaves, into plant cells.

413
00:12:01,350 --> 00:12:03,190
These bacteria are transported.

414
00:12:03,350 --> 00:12:05,529
I'm using bacteria for the sake

415
00:12:05,529 --> 00:12:06,590
of discussion, but it also holds

416
00:12:06,590 --> 00:12:08,429
true for micro algae cells and

417
00:12:08,429 --> 00:12:09,909
for fungal species as well.

418
00:12:10,269 --> 00:12:12,750
They move throughout the entire

419
00:12:12,750 --> 00:12:13,570
plant structure.

420
00:12:15,500 --> 00:12:16,580
And this is

421
00:12:16,990 --> 00:12:18,669
extremely important because I

422
00:12:18,669 --> 00:12:19,570
haven't included

423
00:12:20,100 --> 00:12:21,320
If I talked about all the

424
00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:22,460
benefits and the effects that

425
00:12:22,460 --> 00:12:23,899
these microbes had within

426
00:12:23,899 --> 00:12:25,299
plants, that could be an entire

427
00:12:25,299 --> 00:12:26,700
day's conversation in and of

428
00:12:26,700 --> 00:12:27,500
itself.

429
00:12:27,500 --> 00:12:29,039
We want to talk about drought

430
00:12:29,039 --> 00:12:31,059
resilience and heat resilience

431
00:12:31,059 --> 00:12:32,299
and stress resilience.

432
00:12:33,029 --> 00:12:34,009
All of the significant

433
00:12:34,009 --> 00:12:35,789
resilience factors are

434
00:12:35,789 --> 00:12:38,210
contributed by this biology that

435
00:12:38,210 --> 00:12:39,690
lives inside the plant,

436
00:12:40,610 --> 00:12:41,509
not in the root system,

437
00:12:42,509 --> 00:12:43,450
not associated with the root

438
00:12:43,450 --> 00:12:44,809
system, but inside the plant

439
00:12:44,809 --> 00:12:47,430
itself. So some of this is quite

440
00:12:47,430 --> 00:12:48,889
well documented in the case of

441
00:12:49,700 --> 00:12:51,919
forage pasture species, one very

442
00:12:51,919 --> 00:12:53,139
well -known case that people

443
00:12:53,139 --> 00:12:55,620
understand quite succinctly is

444
00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:57,539
forage

445
00:12:59,169 --> 00:13:00,610
pasture grass fescue.

446
00:13:01,029 --> 00:13:01,909
So throughout the Southeast

447
00:13:01,909 --> 00:13:02,789
United States,

448
00:13:03,399 --> 00:13:05,799
we have what is called

449
00:13:05,799 --> 00:13:07,460
endophyte

450
00:13:08,700 --> 00:13:09,680
-infected fescue.

451
00:13:10,419 --> 00:13:11,840
And endophyte -infected fescue,

452
00:13:12,769 --> 00:13:13,909
we have to be cautious when

453
00:13:13,909 --> 00:13:14,970
we're feeding livestock because

454
00:13:14,970 --> 00:13:16,149
it can induce endophyte

455
00:13:16,149 --> 00:13:16,949
toxicity.

456
00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:18,319
Well, what is actually happening

457
00:13:18,319 --> 00:13:20,500
is all of these organisms that

458
00:13:20,740 --> 00:13:22,220
live inside the plant,

459
00:13:22,669 --> 00:13:25,029
are just categorically described

460
00:13:25,029 --> 00:13:26,169
as endophytes.

461
00:13:26,740 --> 00:13:28,379
An endophyte simply means that

462
00:13:28,379 --> 00:13:29,819
it lives within the plant's

463
00:13:29,819 --> 00:13:30,619
vacuum. tissue.

464
00:13:31,230 --> 00:13:32,210
It lives within the plant

465
00:13:32,210 --> 00:13:33,009
structure.

466
00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:36,479
Now,

467
00:13:36,659 --> 00:13:37,980
what we've discovered in the

468
00:13:37,980 --> 00:13:38,779
last year,

469
00:13:40,179 --> 00:13:42,200
prior to a year ago,

470
00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:44,480
my understanding was that these

471
00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:45,279
bacteria

472
00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:47,120
move throughout the entire

473
00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:47,919
plant.

474
00:13:48,210 --> 00:13:49,009
They exist

475
00:13:49,279 --> 00:13:52,480
in the crevices or the corners

476
00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:54,080
in between plant cells.

477
00:13:55,059 --> 00:13:56,899
We now, we understand quite

478
00:13:56,899 --> 00:13:58,919
clearly, we know that all of us,

479
00:13:58,980 --> 00:13:59,820
in our bodies,

480
00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:01,700
We have, I forget what the

481
00:14:01,700 --> 00:14:02,899
number is, but we have like 10

482
00:14:02,899 --> 00:14:04,379
times more microbial cells than

483
00:14:04,379 --> 00:14:05,799
we have human cells in our body.

484
00:14:06,809 --> 00:14:08,149
We now understand that the same

485
00:14:08,149 --> 00:14:09,750
concept is also true of plants.

486
00:14:10,649 --> 00:14:13,360
Plants have 10 to 15 times more

487
00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:14,700
microbial cells than they have

488
00:14:14,700 --> 00:14:16,580
plant cells within the plant

489
00:14:16,580 --> 00:14:17,379
structure.

490
00:14:18,539 --> 00:14:19,539
And that

491
00:14:19,950 --> 00:14:22,129
that is a complete necessity for

492
00:14:22,129 --> 00:14:23,649
that plant to thrive and to

493
00:14:23,649 --> 00:14:25,190
reach its ultimate health and

494
00:14:25,190 --> 00:14:26,509
ultimate immune system function.

495
00:14:27,210 --> 00:14:28,669
Now, my understanding had been

496
00:14:28,669 --> 00:14:29,469
up

497
00:14:30,009 --> 00:14:31,269
to a year ago that these

498
00:14:31,269 --> 00:14:32,069
bacteria would

499
00:14:32,769 --> 00:14:35,190
they would mostly remain on the

500
00:14:35,190 --> 00:14:36,450
outside of the plant cells,

501
00:14:37,350 --> 00:14:38,309
and that if

502
00:14:38,909 --> 00:14:40,710
they were internalized into the

503
00:14:40,710 --> 00:14:42,190
plant cell, the plant cell

504
00:14:42,190 --> 00:14:43,430
absorbs them through this

505
00:14:43,430 --> 00:14:44,769
endocytosis process,

506
00:14:45,759 --> 00:14:47,580
that the plant cell then takes

507
00:14:47,580 --> 00:14:48,379
them apart.

508
00:14:48,549 --> 00:14:51,000
It takes apart the

509
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,120
bacterial cell membranes, it

510
00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:55,960
takes apart the various

511
00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:57,519
organelles, and it uses them as

512
00:14:57,519 --> 00:14:58,319
an energy source.

513
00:14:59,159 --> 00:15:00,620
Well, now coming to discover

514
00:15:00,620 --> 00:15:02,159
that that isn't exactly what

515
00:15:02,159 --> 00:15:02,959
happens.

516
00:15:02,879 --> 00:15:04,399
And this is such a beautiful

517
00:15:04,399 --> 00:15:06,240
interaction because what is

518
00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:07,100
actually happening

519
00:15:07,899 --> 00:15:08,699
is

520
00:15:09,980 --> 00:15:11,700
these microbes,

521
00:15:12,139 --> 00:15:12,939
bacteria,

522
00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:14,720
in the soil are

523
00:15:15,190 --> 00:15:17,409
loaded up with nutrients that

524
00:15:17,409 --> 00:15:18,209
they have extracted,

525
00:15:18,529 --> 00:15:20,990
and they're also loaded up with

526
00:15:20,990 --> 00:15:21,789
lipids.

527
00:15:22,090 --> 00:15:24,889
There is a specific lipid form

528
00:15:24,889 --> 00:15:27,110
called sphingolipids that they

529
00:15:27,110 --> 00:15:29,659
build these nutrient -bearing

530
00:15:29,659 --> 00:15:30,459
rafts

531
00:15:30,730 --> 00:15:32,870
inside a bacterial cell.

532
00:15:33,899 --> 00:15:35,860
And this bacterial cell is

533
00:15:35,860 --> 00:15:37,100
absorbed from the soil,

534
00:15:37,740 --> 00:15:39,059
migrates up through the plant

535
00:15:39,059 --> 00:15:40,179
into the aerial parts of the

536
00:15:40,179 --> 00:15:41,980
plant, goes into a plant cell.

537
00:15:42,860 --> 00:15:44,419
And once it's inside the plant

538
00:15:44,419 --> 00:15:45,219
cell,

539
00:15:45,179 --> 00:15:47,220
it releases these sphingolipid

540
00:15:47,220 --> 00:15:48,019
rafts.

541
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:49,539
that are loaded with nutrients

542
00:15:49,539 --> 00:15:51,639
and then goes back out the plant

543
00:15:51,639 --> 00:15:53,899
cell and migrates back down into

544
00:15:53,899 --> 00:15:55,799
the soil and does the exact same

545
00:15:55,799 --> 00:15:56,779
process over again.

546
00:15:58,019 --> 00:15:58,819
Isn't that incredible?

547
00:16:00,009 --> 00:16:02,190
These microbes are behaving as

548
00:16:02,409 --> 00:16:04,110
nutrient transporters,

549
00:16:05,159 --> 00:16:06,759
as truckers, if you will, moving

550
00:16:06,759 --> 00:16:08,139
nutrients into the plant.

551
00:16:09,220 --> 00:16:10,019
And in

552
00:16:10,690 --> 00:16:11,610
this process,

553
00:16:13,210 --> 00:16:16,049
to add one last piece that

554
00:16:16,049 --> 00:16:17,590
Dr. White and his colleagues

555
00:16:17,590 --> 00:16:18,389
described,

556
00:16:18,879 --> 00:16:21,220
the exit pathway for a lot of

557
00:16:21,220 --> 00:16:22,019
this biology

558
00:16:22,549 --> 00:16:24,350
that is coming down from the

559
00:16:24,350 --> 00:16:25,370
upper parts of the plant

560
00:16:25,809 --> 00:16:29,069
is created as this

561
00:16:29,069 --> 00:16:31,190
plant root or as this root tip

562
00:16:31,509 --> 00:16:33,190
grows through the soil profile,

563
00:16:34,319 --> 00:16:35,860
about two inches back from the

564
00:16:35,860 --> 00:16:37,319
root tip, we have the initial

565
00:16:37,529 --> 00:16:39,950
development of root hairs.

566
00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:41,940
And the

567
00:16:42,279 --> 00:16:43,620
plant is constantly producing

568
00:16:43,620 --> 00:16:44,419
these root hairs.

569
00:16:45,100 --> 00:16:46,559
Dr. Hoyt and his colleagues have

570
00:16:46,559 --> 00:16:48,759
described the mechanisms by

571
00:16:48,759 --> 00:16:50,319
which these are triggered.

572
00:16:50,799 --> 00:16:51,680
But in short,

573
00:16:53,620 --> 00:16:54,940
One of the ways that I'm

574
00:16:54,940 --> 00:16:56,340
interpreting this or

575
00:16:56,340 --> 00:16:57,440
understanding this is that the

576
00:16:57,440 --> 00:16:58,680
plant is constantly trying to

577
00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:00,480
release microbes back into the

578
00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:02,259
soil as close to that growing

579
00:17:02,259 --> 00:17:03,299
root tip as possible.

580
00:17:03,919 --> 00:17:04,980
So what happens is these

581
00:17:04,980 --> 00:17:06,700
microbes now come down from the

582
00:17:06,700 --> 00:17:07,559
upper parts of the plant,

583
00:17:08,059 --> 00:17:09,839
they migrate out of the root

584
00:17:09,839 --> 00:17:11,299
system through these root hairs,

585
00:17:11,950 --> 00:17:13,269
and in that process

586
00:17:13,900 --> 00:17:16,839
there is both chemical signaling

587
00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:19,099
and electrical signaling that

588
00:17:19,289 --> 00:17:20,089
occurs to the

589
00:17:20,900 --> 00:17:22,319
to the rest of the microbial

590
00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:23,119
community

591
00:17:23,259 --> 00:17:24,839
exactly what that plant's

592
00:17:24,839 --> 00:17:25,940
nutritional requirements are.

593
00:17:26,299 --> 00:17:27,099
It is saying, hey,

594
00:17:27,569 --> 00:17:29,089
I need more manganese.

595
00:17:29,190 --> 00:17:30,130
The plant is communicating, I

596
00:17:30,130 --> 00:17:31,369
need more manganese, or I need

597
00:17:31,369 --> 00:17:32,549
more phosphorus, or I need more

598
00:17:32,549 --> 00:17:33,349
zinc.

599
00:17:33,539 --> 00:17:35,200
And then the soil microbial

600
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:36,259
community will

601
00:17:36,700 --> 00:17:38,359
selectively go after those

602
00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:39,420
nutrients that are in the soil

603
00:17:39,420 --> 00:17:40,220
mineral matrix,

604
00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:42,640
extract them out, and then the

605
00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:43,839
next microbes

606
00:17:44,529 --> 00:17:46,150
that the plant absorbs in as

607
00:17:46,150 --> 00:17:48,210
little as four to six hours,

608
00:17:50,049 --> 00:17:51,869
that next group of microbes the

609
00:17:51,869 --> 00:17:52,829
plant is absorbing will have

610
00:17:52,829 --> 00:17:54,470
higher concentrations of those

611
00:17:54,470 --> 00:17:55,529
selective nutrients that the

612
00:17:55,529 --> 00:17:56,329
plant requires.

613
00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:58,000
Isn't that incredible?

614
00:17:59,220 --> 00:18:00,019
It's pretty amazing.

615
00:18:00,650 --> 00:18:01,450
But

616
00:18:02,769 --> 00:18:04,069
there's something

617
00:18:05,339 --> 00:18:07,140
else that is required for this

618
00:18:07,140 --> 00:18:07,940
to work.

619
00:18:10,690 --> 00:18:11,490
Quorum sensing.

620
00:18:13,519 --> 00:18:14,619
I should get Greg up here to

621
00:18:14,619 --> 00:18:15,759
talk about quorum sensing.

622
00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:22,880
The obvious question is,

623
00:18:23,460 --> 00:18:24,460
that needs to be asked,

624
00:18:25,849 --> 00:18:27,190
if this is the way

625
00:18:27,660 --> 00:18:29,940
that soil biology and plants

626
00:18:29,940 --> 00:18:30,920
truly interact,

627
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,900
then why don't we see more of

628
00:18:33,900 --> 00:18:35,339
it? Why do we see nutrient

629
00:18:35,339 --> 00:18:36,920
deficiency showing up in crops?

630
00:18:37,490 --> 00:18:38,529
Why do we see nutritional

631
00:18:38,529 --> 00:18:39,710
imbalances showing up?

632
00:18:40,579 --> 00:18:42,460
And the short answer is this

633
00:18:42,460 --> 00:18:44,180
process that I'm describing

634
00:18:45,519 --> 00:18:48,059
frequently fails to function as

635
00:18:48,059 --> 00:18:50,920
designed because it doesn't have

636
00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:51,720
enough energy.

637
00:18:52,460 --> 00:18:54,339
The overall energy state is too

638
00:18:54,339 --> 00:18:55,900
low for it to really thrive.

639
00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:58,660
So I want to describe this

640
00:18:58,660 --> 00:19:00,319
process that occurs in microbes

641
00:19:00,319 --> 00:19:01,480
called quorum sensing.

642
00:19:02,380 --> 00:19:03,740
And if you're not familiar with

643
00:19:04,470 --> 00:19:05,269
quorum sensing, with the

644
00:19:04,839 --> 00:19:05,639
language,

645
00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:06,579
then you're certainly familiar

646
00:19:06,579 --> 00:19:07,480
with the concept.

647
00:19:09,250 --> 00:19:11,750
So quorum sensing is when a

648
00:19:11,750 --> 00:19:14,730
large group of organisms begins

649
00:19:14,730 --> 00:19:17,039
behaving collectively as one

650
00:19:17,039 --> 00:19:18,079
superorganism.

651
00:19:18,630 --> 00:19:19,970
The classical example that

652
00:19:19,970 --> 00:19:21,049
everyone understands is a

653
00:19:21,049 --> 00:19:21,849
honeybee colony.

654
00:19:22,460 --> 00:19:23,680
A honeybee colony is comprised

655
00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:25,140
of tens or hundreds of thousands

656
00:19:25,140 --> 00:19:26,799
of individual honeybees, but

657
00:19:26,799 --> 00:19:28,660
they all behave collectively as

658
00:19:28,660 --> 00:19:29,460
one.

659
00:19:30,670 --> 00:19:31,549
And the

660
00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:34,539
same also holds true in

661
00:19:35,170 --> 00:19:36,769
the soil microbiome.

662
00:19:36,849 --> 00:19:38,890
So my understanding of chloram

663
00:19:38,890 --> 00:19:40,170
sensing today

664
00:19:41,089 --> 00:19:43,369
is that there are two different

665
00:19:43,369 --> 00:19:44,930
levels of quorum sensing that

666
00:19:44,930 --> 00:19:47,630
happens in the soil microbiome,

667
00:19:48,369 --> 00:19:50,329
or in our own microbiome, or in

668
00:19:50,329 --> 00:19:51,670
any collective microbial group.

669
00:19:53,650 --> 00:19:55,990
The first level of quorum

670
00:19:55,990 --> 00:19:57,269
sensing is

671
00:19:57,799 --> 00:20:00,220
single species.

672
00:20:01,849 --> 00:20:03,029
Let's say

673
00:20:03,730 --> 00:20:06,309
that we develop a bacterial

674
00:20:06,309 --> 00:20:07,529
infection, like bacterial

675
00:20:07,529 --> 00:20:08,329
pneumonia.

676
00:20:09,670 --> 00:20:11,710
In the initial stages,

677
00:20:13,799 --> 00:20:14,759
And I don't know exactly where

678
00:20:14,759 --> 00:20:15,559
the threshold is.

679
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:17,220
Let's call it 1 ,000 cells for

680
00:20:17,220 --> 00:20:18,019
the sake of discussion.

681
00:20:18,470 --> 00:20:20,269
In the initial stages, each one

682
00:20:20,269 --> 00:20:21,390
of those individual bacterial

683
00:20:21,390 --> 00:20:23,750
cells behaves as an individual

684
00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:24,549
entity.

685
00:20:25,410 --> 00:20:27,269
Each individual cell is

686
00:20:27,269 --> 00:20:29,390
completely responsible for

687
00:20:29,539 --> 00:20:31,160
protection,

688
00:20:31,759 --> 00:20:32,599
for self -defense.

689
00:20:32,859 --> 00:20:34,180
It's responsible for finding a

690
00:20:34,180 --> 00:20:35,359
food source. It's responsible

691
00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:36,159
for reproduction.

692
00:20:38,269 --> 00:20:40,450
Then as that population builds,

693
00:20:40,869 --> 00:20:42,930
it reaches a critical threshold.

694
00:20:43,410 --> 00:20:44,490
And once it reaches a critical

695
00:20:44,490 --> 00:20:45,289
threshold,

696
00:20:45,799 --> 00:20:47,079
a large enough population,

697
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:49,460
they begin grouping together and

698
00:20:49,460 --> 00:20:50,700
they start behaving as a

699
00:20:50,700 --> 00:20:51,500
superorganism.

700
00:20:52,380 --> 00:20:53,579
And once they've established

701
00:20:53,579 --> 00:20:55,720
this superorganism effect, where

702
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:57,099
there's this constant

703
00:20:57,099 --> 00:20:59,210
communication happening across

704
00:20:59,210 --> 00:21:00,549
all of these individual

705
00:21:00,549 --> 00:21:01,390
bacterial cells,

706
00:21:01,869 --> 00:21:03,910
now each individual cell,

707
00:21:05,089 --> 00:21:05,889
two things happen.

708
00:21:05,809 --> 00:21:06,609
First of all,

709
00:21:06,950 --> 00:21:08,410
they become very specialized.

710
00:21:08,950 --> 00:21:10,049
They take on specialized

711
00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:11,720
purposes instead of being

712
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:12,519
general purpose.

713
00:21:12,500 --> 00:21:14,940
So now one cell only has one

714
00:21:14,940 --> 00:21:15,740
job.

715
00:21:15,660 --> 00:21:18,400
Its only job is self -defense,

716
00:21:19,130 --> 00:21:20,650
or its only job is reproduction.

717
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:22,920
And so at that stage, the

718
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:24,539
behavior of

719
00:21:24,970 --> 00:21:26,730
bacterial pneumonia starts to

720
00:21:26,730 --> 00:21:28,349
change. Now you start the

721
00:21:28,349 --> 00:21:29,430
production of mucus

722
00:21:29,779 --> 00:21:32,319
and biofilms for protection of

723
00:21:32,319 --> 00:21:33,220
that entire community.

724
00:21:35,039 --> 00:21:37,240
Along with taking on a very

725
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:38,599
specialized purpose and

726
00:21:38,599 --> 00:21:39,399
function,

727
00:21:39,630 --> 00:21:41,089
they also become very energy

728
00:21:41,089 --> 00:21:41,889
efficient.

729
00:21:42,130 --> 00:21:43,630
So the energy costs of the

730
00:21:43,630 --> 00:21:45,190
overall organism actually go

731
00:21:45,190 --> 00:21:45,990
down,

732
00:21:47,089 --> 00:21:49,089
which allows them to proliferate

733
00:21:49,089 --> 00:21:50,210
and grow even further.

734
00:21:51,220 --> 00:21:52,720
They establish larger community

735
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:53,980
even faster because they're more

736
00:21:53,980 --> 00:21:54,779
energy efficient.

737
00:21:58,250 --> 00:22:00,240
What I've come to realize,

738
00:22:01,559 --> 00:22:02,700
and this is

739
00:22:03,519 --> 00:22:05,440
To be clear, this is just based

740
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,480
on experience and observation.

741
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:09,859
I do not have a bunch of white

742
00:22:09,859 --> 00:22:11,440
papers to support this, but this

743
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:12,240
is just

744
00:22:12,230 --> 00:22:13,950
what we are observing in the

745
00:22:13,950 --> 00:22:14,750
field,

746
00:22:14,650 --> 00:22:15,450
is that

747
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,680
there is a threshold change that

748
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:19,480
occurs.

749
00:22:19,769 --> 00:22:21,450
The soil microbiome starts

750
00:22:21,450 --> 00:22:23,009
behaving completely differently,

751
00:22:24,339 --> 00:22:25,779
similar to my bacterial

752
00:22:25,779 --> 00:22:26,700
pneumonia example,

753
00:22:27,079 --> 00:22:28,160
when you have two things

754
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:28,960
happening.

755
00:22:29,630 --> 00:22:31,589
is you have to have a critical

756
00:22:31,589 --> 00:22:33,170
threshold. You have to have a

757
00:22:33,170 --> 00:22:35,890
certain volume of biological

758
00:22:35,890 --> 00:22:36,890
activity happening.

759
00:22:37,170 --> 00:22:38,210
You have to have a certain

760
00:22:38,210 --> 00:22:39,809
amount of energy from

761
00:22:39,809 --> 00:22:41,210
photosynthates and sugars going

762
00:22:41,210 --> 00:22:42,450
down out through the root system

763
00:22:42,450 --> 00:22:43,509
to feed soil biology.

764
00:22:44,339 --> 00:22:45,900
Once you achieve this critical

765
00:22:45,900 --> 00:22:46,700
threshold,

766
00:22:46,970 --> 00:22:48,190
that's the first piece

767
00:22:48,529 --> 00:22:49,750
that is a requirement.

768
00:22:50,009 --> 00:22:51,069
And then the second piece that

769
00:22:51,069 --> 00:22:53,369
is a requirement is we

770
00:22:54,130 --> 00:22:56,500
need to have a large enough

771
00:22:56,500 --> 00:22:58,839
microbial species diversity as

772
00:22:59,150 --> 00:23:00,410
a function of plant diversity.

773
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:02,319
You need to have both of those

774
00:23:02,319 --> 00:23:03,920
things. If you have just one,

775
00:23:04,059 --> 00:23:04,900
but not the second,

776
00:23:05,869 --> 00:23:08,009
you shouldn't expect to achieve

777
00:23:08,009 --> 00:23:08,970
quorum sensing.

778
00:23:10,349 --> 00:23:11,149
So the

779
00:23:12,069 --> 00:23:13,390
piece that is really fascinating

780
00:23:13,390 --> 00:23:14,190
is

781
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,119
that when we achieve this quorum

782
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:17,799
sensing of the entire microbial

783
00:23:17,799 --> 00:23:19,980
community, it's not confined to

784
00:23:19,980 --> 00:23:21,079
just the microbial community

785
00:23:21,079 --> 00:23:21,879
alone.

786
00:23:21,859 --> 00:23:23,220
It also includes the plants that

787
00:23:23,220 --> 00:23:24,019
are growing there.

788
00:23:25,579 --> 00:23:26,379
The plants,

789
00:23:26,799 --> 00:23:29,279
it becomes really difficult to

790
00:23:29,279 --> 00:23:31,319
identify where

791
00:23:32,279 --> 00:23:34,059
soil microbiome

792
00:23:34,589 --> 00:23:36,049
ends and plants begin.

793
00:23:36,769 --> 00:23:38,750
They start fusing together into

794
00:23:38,750 --> 00:23:40,529
one whole organism, one

795
00:23:40,529 --> 00:23:41,390
superorganism.

796
00:23:42,710 --> 00:23:44,250
One of the stories that

797
00:23:45,069 --> 00:23:47,190
I've described, and there are

798
00:23:47,190 --> 00:23:49,450
now several other instances,

799
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:52,279
but this, I think this one is a

800
00:23:52,279 --> 00:23:53,319
particularly appropriate for the

801
00:23:53,319 --> 00:23:54,220
environment that we're in.

802
00:23:54,319 --> 00:23:56,720
There is at the Minocan farm in

803
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:57,519
North Dakota,

804
00:23:59,339 --> 00:24:00,240
this

805
00:24:00,589 --> 00:24:03,450
was 2012, 2012 and 2013 they had

806
00:24:03,450 --> 00:24:04,490
a major drought stress,

807
00:24:05,539 --> 00:24:07,460
and in 2011 at the

808
00:24:08,029 --> 00:24:09,369
Noted on the Plains Conference,

809
00:24:09,529 --> 00:24:10,750
there was a presenter who spoke

810
00:24:10,750 --> 00:24:11,890
about the value that they were

811
00:24:11,890 --> 00:24:13,410
seeing from diverse cover crops

812
00:24:13,410 --> 00:24:14,630
that were blended together and

813
00:24:14,630 --> 00:24:15,430
combined together.

814
00:24:17,710 --> 00:24:19,190
Jay Fehrer from the Minocan Farm

815
00:24:19,190 --> 00:24:20,410
decided to run an experiment.

816
00:24:21,089 --> 00:24:24,049
They did seven small test plots

817
00:24:24,049 --> 00:24:26,049
of individual cover crop

818
00:24:26,049 --> 00:24:26,849
species,

819
00:24:26,930 --> 00:24:28,750
and then the eighth test plot

820
00:24:28,750 --> 00:24:30,549
with all seven species combined.

821
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,579
In the 2012 growing season,

822
00:24:34,819 --> 00:24:36,440
major drought conditions, those

823
00:24:36,789 --> 00:24:39,150
test plots of seven individual

824
00:24:39,150 --> 00:24:40,309
species turned

825
00:24:40,619 --> 00:24:41,419
into toast.

826
00:24:41,660 --> 00:24:43,579
Literally, they grew 12 to 16

827
00:24:43,579 --> 00:24:45,259
inches tall and they turned into

828
00:24:45,259 --> 00:24:46,059
hay.

829
00:24:46,460 --> 00:24:47,259
The

830
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:48,680
eighth

831
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,619
plot that had all seven species

832
00:24:51,619 --> 00:24:52,419
together,

833
00:24:54,900 --> 00:24:56,119
there was limited growth.

834
00:24:56,539 --> 00:24:58,000
Those plants only grew and also

835
00:24:58,000 --> 00:24:59,299
similar to the rest, they also

836
00:24:59,299 --> 00:25:00,319
only grew 12 inches.

837
00:25:00,519 --> 00:25:01,779
inches tall, but they stayed

838
00:25:01,779 --> 00:25:03,700
green all season long.

839
00:25:04,569 --> 00:25:06,269
And that experience was

840
00:25:06,269 --> 00:25:09,619
duplicated in the 2013 drought

841
00:25:09,619 --> 00:25:10,480
season that they had.

842
00:25:10,539 --> 00:25:11,799
So two successive years in a

843
00:25:11,799 --> 00:25:12,599
row.

844
00:25:13,500 --> 00:25:14,380
And that

845
00:25:15,849 --> 00:25:16,650
is an expression,

846
00:25:17,099 --> 00:25:18,640
as I'm coming to understand it,

847
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,680
that is an expression of having

848
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:23,900
There's several different things

849
00:25:23,900 --> 00:25:24,700
happening there.

850
00:25:24,599 --> 00:25:25,819
There are plants there that have

851
00:25:25,819 --> 00:25:28,140
complementary nutritional needs.

852
00:25:28,299 --> 00:25:29,119
There's plants there that have

853
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:30,099
complementary water

854
00:25:30,099 --> 00:25:31,140
requirements. All of those

855
00:25:31,140 --> 00:25:33,759
pieces are contributing factors,

856
00:25:33,900 --> 00:25:35,660
but the foundational factor that

857
00:25:35,839 --> 00:25:38,000
allowed those plants to be

858
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:39,960
completely drought resistant

859
00:25:39,569 --> 00:25:41,210
resistant, drought resilient, to

860
00:25:41,210 --> 00:25:42,309
have adequate water supply,

861
00:25:42,630 --> 00:25:43,910
was that there was a quorum

862
00:25:43,910 --> 00:25:45,849
-sensing microbial community

863
00:25:45,849 --> 00:25:47,990
that allowed those plants to

864
00:25:47,990 --> 00:25:49,329
effectively communicate with

865
00:25:49,329 --> 00:25:50,509
each other what their

866
00:25:50,509 --> 00:25:51,769
nutritional requirements were

867
00:25:51,769 --> 00:25:52,750
and what their water

868
00:25:52,750 --> 00:25:53,549
requirements were.

869
00:25:53,970 --> 00:25:55,109
And instead of competing with

870
00:25:55,109 --> 00:25:56,430
each other, here's the important

871
00:25:56,430 --> 00:25:57,230
part.

872
00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:58,839
When you have a superorganism,

873
00:25:59,559 --> 00:26:01,519
that the plants are a part of a

874
00:26:01,519 --> 00:26:02,319
superorganism,

875
00:26:03,250 --> 00:26:05,089
we have had this idea for the

876
00:26:05,089 --> 00:26:05,889
last

877
00:26:07,089 --> 00:26:08,450
half a dozen decades or more,

878
00:26:08,930 --> 00:26:10,589
we've been trained to think that

879
00:26:10,589 --> 00:26:12,230
plants are constantly competing

880
00:26:12,230 --> 00:26:13,430
with each other for water and

881
00:26:13,430 --> 00:26:14,230
nutrients.

882
00:26:14,369 --> 00:26:16,069
We don't like weeds because

883
00:26:16,069 --> 00:26:17,569
weeds are competing with other

884
00:26:17,569 --> 00:26:18,809
plants for water and nutrients.

885
00:26:18,950 --> 00:26:19,750
But in fact,

886
00:26:20,930 --> 00:26:22,329
and that can be true,

887
00:26:22,750 --> 00:26:24,529
that is true if there isn't

888
00:26:24,529 --> 00:26:25,849
enough diversity and

889
00:26:26,230 --> 00:26:27,490
if there isn't quorum sensing.

890
00:26:28,059 --> 00:26:29,759
But when you have a vibrant

891
00:26:29,759 --> 00:26:31,779
plant population with a

892
00:26:31,779 --> 00:26:33,519
diversity of plant species and a

893
00:26:33,519 --> 00:26:34,799
diversity of the microbiome,

894
00:26:36,049 --> 00:26:37,470
Plants don't compete with each

895
00:26:37,470 --> 00:26:38,569
other, they start collaborating

896
00:26:38,569 --> 00:26:39,369
with each other.

897
00:26:41,279 --> 00:26:42,079
And you know,

898
00:26:42,349 --> 00:26:43,670
all of you have an incredible

899
00:26:43,670 --> 00:26:44,890
opportunity to

900
00:26:45,329 --> 00:26:46,329
put this into place

901
00:26:46,869 --> 00:26:48,309
because you

902
00:26:48,619 --> 00:26:50,880
don't have soils and crop types

903
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:52,440
that require tillage every year.

904
00:26:53,140 --> 00:26:54,140
Now you may have gotten into the

905
00:26:54,140 --> 00:26:55,180
habit of tilling every year.

906
00:26:55,230 --> 00:26:56,150
but that's a different topic

907
00:26:56,150 --> 00:26:56,950
entirely.

908
00:26:58,200 --> 00:26:59,000
So

909
00:26:59,059 --> 00:27:00,380
what

910
00:27:01,910 --> 00:27:03,210
I've come to realize is that

911
00:27:03,210 --> 00:27:04,349
when we have

912
00:27:05,559 --> 00:27:08,900
a diverse enough microbiome

913
00:27:08,900 --> 00:27:09,700
as

914
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:11,480
a function of diversity of plant

915
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:12,279
species,

916
00:27:13,740 --> 00:27:16,240
the soil microbial population

917
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:17,700
changes its behavior.

918
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,119
and the plant population changes

919
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:20,919
its behavior.

920
00:27:21,500 --> 00:27:23,680
And once we establish this, so I

921
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,039
asked the question here at the

922
00:27:26,039 --> 00:27:26,880
beginning, just a little bit

923
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:27,680
ago,

924
00:27:27,819 --> 00:27:28,819
I asked the question,

925
00:27:29,730 --> 00:27:31,829
if quorum sensing is effective,

926
00:27:31,930 --> 00:27:33,710
and this rhizophagy cycle

927
00:27:34,150 --> 00:27:35,410
process that Dr.

928
00:27:35,450 --> 00:27:36,250
White and his colleagues

929
00:27:36,230 --> 00:27:37,250
described as effective,

930
00:27:38,809 --> 00:27:40,210
then we would never have

931
00:27:40,210 --> 00:27:41,150
nutrient deficiencies,

932
00:27:41,839 --> 00:27:42,639
theoretically,

933
00:27:42,759 --> 00:27:44,720
because this should provide all

934
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:45,519
of the plant's nutritional

935
00:27:45,420 --> 00:27:46,220
requirements.

936
00:27:46,980 --> 00:27:47,779
And what we're coming to

937
00:27:47,779 --> 00:27:49,220
understand is that it

938
00:27:49,529 --> 00:27:50,809
is absolutely possible

939
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:53,339
for plants and for the soil

940
00:27:53,339 --> 00:27:55,720
microbiome to have such a level

941
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,500
of health and vigor and overall

942
00:27:58,500 --> 00:28:01,019
activity that it can supply 100

943
00:28:01,019 --> 00:28:02,019
% of a crop's nutritional

944
00:28:02,019 --> 00:28:02,819
requirements. You know,

945
00:28:03,380 --> 00:28:04,599
Elaine Ingham talked about this

946
00:28:04,599 --> 00:28:05,399
years ago.

947
00:28:06,369 --> 00:28:07,410
I think she still talks about

948
00:28:07,410 --> 00:28:08,210
it.

949
00:28:08,099 --> 00:28:09,460
She used to describe how

950
00:28:09,930 --> 00:28:11,269
if

951
00:28:11,740 --> 00:28:14,500
you simply have, if you fix soil

952
00:28:14,500 --> 00:28:16,299
biology, then soil biology can

953
00:28:16,299 --> 00:28:17,640
supply 100 % of a plant's

954
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:18,440
nutritional requirements.

955
00:28:18,940 --> 00:28:20,180
This was a recurring refrain,

956
00:28:20,299 --> 00:28:21,160
something that she was quite

957
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:21,960
adamant about.

958
00:28:24,559 --> 00:28:27,880
She received a lot of antagonism

959
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:29,160
or pushback on this concept

960
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:30,779
because many people tried it and

961
00:28:30,779 --> 00:28:31,579
failed.

962
00:28:32,250 --> 00:28:33,609
They did not see the results and

963
00:28:33,609 --> 00:28:34,670
did not see the success.

964
00:28:35,799 --> 00:28:38,299
And I'm of the persuasion that

965
00:28:38,299 --> 00:28:39,920
there are a few caveats, that

966
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:40,859
there is a requirement,

967
00:28:42,259 --> 00:28:43,819
obviously, in order for

968
00:28:44,329 --> 00:28:47,109
biology to extract nutrients and

969
00:28:47,109 --> 00:28:48,250
make nutrients available to the

970
00:28:48,250 --> 00:28:49,250
plant, they have to be present

971
00:28:49,250 --> 00:28:50,130
in the soil in the first place.

972
00:28:50,460 --> 00:28:51,319
That's something that we have to

973
00:28:51,319 --> 00:28:52,119
take into consideration.

974
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:54,200
But also, I'm of the persuasion

975
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:55,279
that the reason many people

976
00:28:55,279 --> 00:28:56,380
didn't see the results that

977
00:28:56,380 --> 00:28:57,319
Elaine was describing, she

978
00:28:57,319 --> 00:28:58,880
obviously saw those results in

979
00:28:58,880 --> 00:28:59,680
the laboratory,

980
00:28:59,960 --> 00:29:01,220
so she believed it was possible

981
00:29:01,220 --> 00:29:02,099
because she was seeing those

982
00:29:02,099 --> 00:29:02,899
results in the laboratory,

983
00:29:03,299 --> 00:29:04,559
but the results didn't replicate

984
00:29:04,559 --> 00:29:05,359
into the field.

985
00:29:05,829 --> 00:29:07,190
Because in the field,

986
00:29:07,509 --> 00:29:09,369
most soils didn't have enough

987
00:29:09,369 --> 00:29:10,970
energy, enough sugar energy,

988
00:29:11,410 --> 00:29:13,529
to drive the microbiome to the

989
00:29:13,529 --> 00:29:14,690
degree that she was able to

990
00:29:14,690 --> 00:29:15,750
propagate it to in the lab.

991
00:29:19,130 --> 00:29:20,049
Any questions on what I've

992
00:29:20,049 --> 00:29:20,849
talked about so far?

993
00:29:21,289 --> 00:29:22,210
This is kind of foundational

994
00:29:22,210 --> 00:29:23,450
because this drives everything.

995
00:29:23,890 --> 00:29:24,690
Yes?

996
00:29:24,559 --> 00:29:26,539
As valuable as all this is, that

997
00:29:26,539 --> 00:29:28,910
number one item, I've had more

998
00:29:28,910 --> 00:29:30,410
fun teasing my vegetarian

999
00:29:30,410 --> 00:29:31,930
friends with that quote that

1000
00:29:31,930 --> 00:29:33,329
plants are not vegetarians.

1001
00:29:34,009 --> 00:29:35,009
Thank you for that.

1002
00:29:40,089 --> 00:29:41,150
Plants are

1003
00:29:42,259 --> 00:29:43,059
not vegetarians.

1004
00:29:42,049 --> 00:29:43,730
Once I started really

1005
00:29:43,730 --> 00:29:44,589
understanding this,

1006
00:29:44,950 --> 00:29:45,849
two things are happening.

1007
00:29:46,009 --> 00:29:47,529
One is it is true that plants

1008
00:29:47,529 --> 00:29:48,329
are

1009
00:29:48,460 --> 00:29:49,839
consuming and utilizing

1010
00:29:49,839 --> 00:29:50,639
bacteria,

1011
00:29:51,069 --> 00:29:53,589
but it's also true that bacteria

1012
00:29:53,589 --> 00:29:56,410
are vectors of nutrients, that

1013
00:29:56,410 --> 00:29:57,789
they're just cycling them and

1014
00:29:57,789 --> 00:29:58,589
moving them through.

1015
00:30:02,650 --> 00:30:05,029
It's been intriguing to learn

1016
00:30:05,029 --> 00:30:06,900
more about and to better

1017
00:30:06,900 --> 00:30:09,019
understand the degree to which

1018
00:30:09,019 --> 00:30:10,339
plants support each other.

1019
00:30:10,420 --> 00:30:11,500
I'd like to just elaborate on

1020
00:30:11,500 --> 00:30:12,299
this a little bit more.

1021
00:30:14,650 --> 00:30:16,509
I forget the author's name, but

1022
00:30:16,509 --> 00:30:17,990
several years ago there was a

1023
00:30:17,990 --> 00:30:18,789
fascinating

1024
00:30:18,980 --> 00:30:21,660
book published by a researcher

1025
00:30:21,660 --> 00:30:22,460
from Canada,

1026
00:30:23,509 --> 00:30:24,430
Finding the Mother Tree,

1027
00:30:25,529 --> 00:30:27,329
where they were, have you heard

1028
00:30:27,329 --> 00:30:28,390
of this book? Has anyone read

1029
00:30:28,390 --> 00:30:29,190
it?

1030
00:30:29,029 --> 00:30:29,930
Okay, a few of you have.

1031
00:30:30,690 --> 00:30:32,289
So Finding the Mother Tree, I

1032
00:30:32,289 --> 00:30:33,269
forget the author's name,

1033
00:30:34,650 --> 00:30:37,049
but she in, I

1034
00:30:37,650 --> 00:30:38,470
think it was in the book, it

1035
00:30:38,470 --> 00:30:39,430
might also have been in one of

1036
00:30:39,430 --> 00:30:40,230
her papers,

1037
00:30:40,869 --> 00:30:42,250
she described how

1038
00:30:43,940 --> 00:30:46,960
when a seed lands

1039
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:48,920
and germinates on the soil,

1040
00:30:50,039 --> 00:30:53,160
even at some distance from the

1041
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,380
tree that produced that seed,

1042
00:30:57,710 --> 00:30:59,750
those two, the mother tree will

1043
00:30:59,750 --> 00:31:02,619
identify that this is her

1044
00:31:02,619 --> 00:31:03,420
daughter tree,

1045
00:31:04,660 --> 00:31:06,240
even though there is not even a,

1046
00:31:06,299 --> 00:31:08,769
not a direct or a traceable

1047
00:31:08,769 --> 00:31:09,650
direct connection.

1048
00:31:09,930 --> 00:31:11,410
It can be hundreds of yards

1049
00:31:11,410 --> 00:31:12,210
away.

1050
00:31:12,980 --> 00:31:15,559
And if that daughter tree is in

1051
00:31:15,559 --> 00:31:16,980
a very difficult environment,

1052
00:31:17,099 --> 00:31:18,559
let's say it's in very rocky

1053
00:31:18,559 --> 00:31:19,559
soil or

1054
00:31:20,099 --> 00:31:21,960
it's shaded by other trees and

1055
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:22,799
it doesn't get a lot of

1056
00:31:22,799 --> 00:31:23,599
sunlight,

1057
00:31:24,099 --> 00:31:25,859
that mother tree will support

1058
00:31:25,859 --> 00:31:27,880
the daughter tree and provide it

1059
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,420
with sugar for years to sustain

1060
00:31:30,420 --> 00:31:31,619
it and to keep it growing.

1061
00:31:32,259 --> 00:31:34,279
And that sugar gets transmitted

1062
00:31:34,660 --> 00:31:37,250
from the mother through

1063
00:31:38,140 --> 00:31:40,000
this domino chain

1064
00:31:40,990 --> 00:31:43,369
of being passed from tree to

1065
00:31:43,369 --> 00:31:45,069
tree to tree through their

1066
00:31:45,069 --> 00:31:46,589
mycorrhizal mycelial

1067
00:31:46,589 --> 00:31:47,389
connections. It'll be

1068
00:31:47,329 --> 00:31:48,730
transferred from one tree to the

1069
00:31:48,730 --> 00:31:49,529
next to the next.

1070
00:31:49,789 --> 00:31:51,890
And she documented sugar being

1071
00:31:51,890 --> 00:31:53,230
transferred through

1072
00:31:53,799 --> 00:31:56,299
six intermediary links from

1073
00:31:58,210 --> 00:32:00,430
mother to daughter with no loss

1074
00:32:00,430 --> 00:32:01,230
of quantity.

1075
00:32:03,019 --> 00:32:04,460
None of the trees in the chain

1076
00:32:04,460 --> 00:32:05,960
took any sugar for themselves.

1077
00:32:06,630 --> 00:32:08,170
They passed all the sugar along

1078
00:32:08,170 --> 00:32:08,970
to the daughter.

1079
00:32:09,940 --> 00:32:10,740
Isn't that incredible?

1080
00:32:11,519 --> 00:32:12,319
How do they know?

1081
00:32:13,259 --> 00:32:14,059
They know.

1082
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:16,619
all of a sudden you realize that

1083
00:32:16,619 --> 00:32:18,119
plants are living beings with as

1084
00:32:18,119 --> 00:32:20,000
much sentience and awareness.

1085
00:32:20,700 --> 00:32:22,640
You know, I have this talk that

1086
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,500
I gave a number of years ago on

1087
00:32:24,970 --> 00:32:28,099
plant intelligence that was

1088
00:32:28,099 --> 00:32:29,319
based on a lot of Stephen Herod

1089
00:32:29,319 --> 00:32:30,119
Buhner's work.

1090
00:32:30,799 --> 00:32:31,779
And Buhner was the one that

1091
00:32:31,779 --> 00:32:32,579
first,

1092
00:32:32,700 --> 00:32:34,900
he has this incredible trilogy

1093
00:32:34,900 --> 00:32:35,700
of three books.

1094
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:37,759
The third in the series is just

1095
00:32:37,759 --> 00:32:39,039
titled Plant Intelligence.

1096
00:32:40,609 --> 00:32:42,150
And it will give you, all three

1097
00:32:42,150 --> 00:32:42,950
of the books are quite

1098
00:32:42,809 --> 00:32:44,680
incredible, but third one in

1099
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:45,660
particular will give you a very

1100
00:32:45,660 --> 00:32:46,920
different perspective on plants.

1101
00:32:47,660 --> 00:32:49,920
He describes how plants have

1102
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:51,359
this, so when we think of

1103
00:32:51,359 --> 00:32:53,460
intelligence, intelligence being

1104
00:32:53,460 --> 00:32:56,180
defined as informed decision

1105
00:32:56,180 --> 00:32:57,359
-making, conscious decision

1106
00:32:57,359 --> 00:32:58,819
-making, evaluating choices,

1107
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:00,160
deciding which pathway to go

1108
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:00,960
down,

1109
00:33:01,529 --> 00:33:03,269
the ability for computation and

1110
00:33:03,269 --> 00:33:04,069
so forth.

1111
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:06,440
We think of it in terms of

1112
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:07,700
brains, but if you take a

1113
00:33:07,700 --> 00:33:09,319
slightly more macro view,

1114
00:33:09,759 --> 00:33:10,700
the accurate way of describing

1115
00:33:10,700 --> 00:33:11,680
it would be to describe it in

1116
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:12,759
terms of neural networks.

1117
00:33:13,410 --> 00:33:14,349
So we know that we have neural

1118
00:33:14,349 --> 00:33:15,750
networks in our gut that's

1119
00:33:15,750 --> 00:33:16,750
associated with the health and

1120
00:33:16,750 --> 00:33:17,809
integrity of our microbiome.

1121
00:33:17,910 --> 00:33:19,690
We have a small neural network

1122
00:33:19,690 --> 00:33:20,509
around our heart.

1123
00:33:20,609 --> 00:33:21,589
So when we talk about making a

1124
00:33:21,589 --> 00:33:22,769
gut decision or having a gut

1125
00:33:22,769 --> 00:33:25,279
feeling, we have the capacity

1126
00:33:25,279 --> 00:33:27,099
for decision making and

1127
00:33:27,099 --> 00:33:28,779
analysis, not just in our heads.

1128
00:33:31,539 --> 00:33:33,720
Buhner pulled together all of

1129
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:35,059
this research work describing

1130
00:33:35,059 --> 00:33:37,559
how plants also have neural

1131
00:33:37,559 --> 00:33:38,359
networks.

1132
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,119
The neural

1133
00:33:41,690 --> 00:33:43,650
networks that plants have are

1134
00:33:43,650 --> 00:33:45,789
precisely identical to our own.

1135
00:33:45,849 --> 00:33:46,649
They have the same

1136
00:33:46,450 --> 00:33:47,329
neurotransmitters.

1137
00:33:47,670 --> 00:33:48,710
They have the same neuron

1138
00:33:48,710 --> 00:33:49,509
structure.

1139
00:33:49,650 --> 00:33:51,009
Everything is identical with one

1140
00:33:51,009 --> 00:33:51,809
exception.

1141
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:54,119
When you have a large

1142
00:33:54,119 --> 00:33:55,619
established perennial plant,

1143
00:33:56,039 --> 00:33:57,720
such as an oak tree or a

1144
00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:58,519
grapevine,

1145
00:33:58,769 --> 00:34:00,130
their neural network is

1146
00:34:00,130 --> 00:34:01,390
significantly larger than our

1147
00:34:01,390 --> 00:34:02,190
own.

1148
00:34:03,269 --> 00:34:04,829
They have more computational

1149
00:34:04,829 --> 00:34:05,629
capacity.

1150
00:34:06,619 --> 00:34:07,419
And

1151
00:34:07,359 --> 00:34:08,719
according to the classical

1152
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:10,019
definition of intelligence, they

1153
00:34:10,019 --> 00:34:11,599
have more intelligence than

1154
00:34:11,909 --> 00:34:12,710
we do.

1155
00:34:14,489 --> 00:34:15,650
So that gives you a different

1156
00:34:15,650 --> 00:34:16,730
perspective about plants,

1157
00:34:16,809 --> 00:34:17,610
doesn't it?

1158
00:34:18,940 --> 00:34:19,740
All right.

1159
00:34:20,590 --> 00:34:22,840
So now the

1160
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:25,199
question is,

1161
00:34:27,340 --> 00:34:29,539
how do we get to this stage?

1162
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:30,900
If we want to have

1163
00:34:31,500 --> 00:34:33,320
a microbally,

1164
00:34:34,550 --> 00:34:36,420
if we to have the rhizophagy

1165
00:34:36,420 --> 00:34:38,599
cycle working and effectively

1166
00:34:38,599 --> 00:34:39,920
delivering nutrition to our

1167
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:40,720
crops,

1168
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:42,000
how do we get there

1169
00:34:42,980 --> 00:34:44,820
without compromising yields,

1170
00:34:45,119 --> 00:34:48,239
without compromising overall

1171
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:49,480
plant health and performance?

1172
00:34:50,739 --> 00:34:51,599
And I

1173
00:34:52,260 --> 00:34:53,739
would suggest we need to start

1174
00:34:53,739 --> 00:34:55,059
thinking, we need to start

1175
00:34:55,059 --> 00:34:57,159
managing our soil as if though

1176
00:34:57,159 --> 00:34:58,199
it were a Petri dish in a

1177
00:34:58,199 --> 00:34:59,159
laboratory that we want to

1178
00:34:59,159 --> 00:35:00,260
propagate biology on.

1179
00:35:01,150 --> 00:35:02,250
We understand if we're trying to

1180
00:35:02,250 --> 00:35:03,389
propagate biology in a

1181
00:35:03,389 --> 00:35:04,190
laboratory,

1182
00:35:04,389 --> 00:35:05,610
We wanted to give it an ideal

1183
00:35:05,610 --> 00:35:07,690
environment in terms of ideal

1184
00:35:07,690 --> 00:35:08,809
moisture conditions, ideal

1185
00:35:08,809 --> 00:35:10,190
temperature conditions, optimal

1186
00:35:10,190 --> 00:35:10,990
food source,

1187
00:35:11,820 --> 00:35:12,659
and of

1188
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:14,599
course the absence of toxins.

1189
00:35:16,179 --> 00:35:17,139
We should try to do the same

1190
00:35:17,139 --> 00:35:17,940
things in our soil.

1191
00:35:21,250 --> 00:35:22,050
One of the,

1192
00:35:23,070 --> 00:35:23,870
I think there are,

1193
00:35:25,909 --> 00:35:27,369
there are lots of

1194
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:29,699
smaller

1195
00:35:30,079 --> 00:35:31,840
contributing factors that really

1196
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,599
suppress soil biology of our

1197
00:35:34,599 --> 00:35:35,460
management practices.

1198
00:35:35,699 --> 00:35:36,679
There are things that we do like

1199
00:35:36,679 --> 00:35:37,519
irrigating with

1200
00:35:37,989 --> 00:35:39,849
poor water quality, and so

1201
00:35:39,849 --> 00:35:41,630
forth. So there are a number of

1202
00:35:41,630 --> 00:35:42,809
things that we do that suppress

1203
00:35:42,809 --> 00:35:44,130
soil biology from a management

1204
00:35:44,130 --> 00:35:44,930
perspective.

1205
00:35:45,610 --> 00:35:47,269
But there are three that

1206
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:49,739
kind of supersede all the others

1207
00:35:49,739 --> 00:35:51,820
in terms of their impact, as I

1208
00:35:51,820 --> 00:35:52,620
understand it.

1209
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:55,099
The first of all, these in no

1210
00:35:55,099 --> 00:35:55,900
particular order,

1211
00:35:56,599 --> 00:35:58,400
but one of the three is having

1212
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,260
bare soil that's exposed to the

1213
00:36:00,260 --> 00:36:01,060
sun.

1214
00:36:02,409 --> 00:36:04,590
Bare soil exposed to the sun, we

1215
00:36:04,590 --> 00:36:05,750
know that when we have

1216
00:36:06,070 --> 00:36:08,429
all of these microbial processes

1217
00:36:08,429 --> 00:36:10,010
in the soil require enzymes to

1218
00:36:10,010 --> 00:36:10,810
function.

1219
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:12,719
and enzymes become denatured at

1220
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:13,880
110 degrees Fahrenheit.

1221
00:36:15,210 --> 00:36:16,329
We know that if we have bare

1222
00:36:16,329 --> 00:36:17,730
soil that's exposed to the sun,

1223
00:36:18,219 --> 00:36:20,280
the soil surface on a warm sunny

1224
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:21,920
day will reach about 140 degrees

1225
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:23,360
Fahrenheit and you'll easily

1226
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:24,840
reach 110 degrees down to a

1227
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:25,719
depth of about three to four

1228
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:26,519
inches.

1229
00:36:26,780 --> 00:36:28,159
I've measured that many times

1230
00:36:28,309 --> 00:36:30,369
and so that means that

1231
00:36:30,780 --> 00:36:33,360
upper horizon of soil, the top

1232
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,880
four inches where we should have

1233
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,639
the most biological activity is

1234
00:36:38,639 --> 00:36:40,219
in effect where we have none

1235
00:36:40,219 --> 00:36:42,039
because we've fried it

1236
00:36:42,380 --> 00:36:43,719
by exposure to the sun.

1237
00:36:44,179 --> 00:36:45,500
I mean, look, there's this,

1238
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,000
what is the old saying that

1239
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:49,239
sunlight is nature's best

1240
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:50,599
medicine if you have wounds to

1241
00:36:50,599 --> 00:36:51,480
expose them to the sun?

1242
00:36:51,519 --> 00:36:52,559
Because it's a very effective

1243
00:36:52,559 --> 00:36:53,360
antiseptic.

1244
00:36:54,190 --> 00:36:55,150
It's very effective at cleaning

1245
00:36:55,150 --> 00:36:55,950
and sterilizing.

1246
00:36:59,050 --> 00:37:00,690
Second significant factor

1247
00:37:01,389 --> 00:37:02,210
is

1248
00:37:03,159 --> 00:37:06,340
application of high electrolyte

1249
00:37:06,340 --> 00:37:07,460
content fertilizers.

1250
00:37:08,739 --> 00:37:10,239
So I'm using very specific

1251
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:11,880
language here, very high salt

1252
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:13,559
index fertilizers or very high

1253
00:37:13,559 --> 00:37:16,260
salt content. Anytime you have a

1254
00:37:16,639 --> 00:37:18,679
material that has a high salt

1255
00:37:18,679 --> 00:37:19,860
index or high electrolyte

1256
00:37:19,860 --> 00:37:20,760
content, it's actually, it's

1257
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:21,599
very, it's quite simple.

1258
00:37:22,329 --> 00:37:23,849
If you have a cut in your finger

1259
00:37:23,849 --> 00:37:24,650
and

1260
00:37:25,219 --> 00:37:27,179
you get salt into it or you get

1261
00:37:27,179 --> 00:37:28,239
fertilizers into it,

1262
00:37:28,559 --> 00:37:30,000
that cut will burn.

1263
00:37:30,650 --> 00:37:33,110
And that burning is cellular

1264
00:37:33,110 --> 00:37:33,910
oxidation.

1265
00:37:34,489 --> 00:37:35,349
That's what you're feeling is

1266
00:37:35,349 --> 00:37:36,170
cellular oxidation.

1267
00:37:36,949 --> 00:37:38,289
And those fertilizers will do

1268
00:37:38,289 --> 00:37:40,530
the exact same thing to microbes

1269
00:37:40,530 --> 00:37:41,610
when they're applied to soil.

1270
00:37:43,030 --> 00:37:44,690
They will oxidize microbial

1271
00:37:44,690 --> 00:37:46,030
cells and shut down microbial

1272
00:37:46,030 --> 00:37:46,830
cells.

1273
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:50,539
It's kind of funny when

1274
00:37:51,139 --> 00:37:52,099
you stop to think about it.

1275
00:37:53,079 --> 00:37:55,179
You can appropriately say that

1276
00:37:55,619 --> 00:37:57,519
adding fertilizer to soil and

1277
00:37:57,519 --> 00:37:59,239
the fertilizer being defined as

1278
00:37:59,809 --> 00:38:01,769
urea and MAP and DAP and

1279
00:38:01,769 --> 00:38:03,030
potassium nitrate, calcium

1280
00:38:03,030 --> 00:38:03,830
nitrate. So you can

1281
00:38:03,829 --> 00:38:05,610
appropriately say that applying

1282
00:38:05,610 --> 00:38:06,989
those fertilizers to soil is

1283
00:38:06,989 --> 00:38:07,789
salting the land.

1284
00:38:08,940 --> 00:38:09,740
It's the same thing.

1285
00:38:12,559 --> 00:38:15,219
Then the third significant

1286
00:38:15,219 --> 00:38:16,860
negative impact on soil biology

1287
00:38:17,579 --> 00:38:19,940
is fungicide applications.

1288
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:23,059
Fungicide applications are

1289
00:38:23,500 --> 00:38:25,119
more impactful and more

1290
00:38:25,150 --> 00:38:27,289
detrimental than all the other

1291
00:38:27,289 --> 00:38:28,570
pesticides, herbicides,

1292
00:38:28,730 --> 00:38:30,090
insecticides grouped together.

1293
00:38:31,030 --> 00:38:33,110
They have a market.

1294
00:38:33,250 --> 00:38:34,050
Well,

1295
00:38:33,750 --> 00:38:34,550
I think,

1296
00:38:36,909 --> 00:38:39,469
again, this is just a lot of

1297
00:38:39,469 --> 00:38:40,650
experience and a lot of

1298
00:38:40,650 --> 00:38:42,090
observation. I don't have hard

1299
00:38:42,090 --> 00:38:43,130
data to back this up.

1300
00:38:44,179 --> 00:38:45,559
But observationally, I would say

1301
00:38:45,559 --> 00:38:47,000
that fungicides are

1302
00:38:48,429 --> 00:38:51,090
more damaging to soil biology

1303
00:38:51,090 --> 00:38:53,260
than fertilizer applications.

1304
00:38:54,230 --> 00:38:55,030
And they are

1305
00:38:55,860 --> 00:38:57,800
more damaging to soil biology

1306
00:38:57,800 --> 00:38:58,659
than tillage,

1307
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:00,679
and they're more damaging to

1308
00:39:00,679 --> 00:39:02,260
biology than bare soil exposed

1309
00:39:02,260 --> 00:39:03,060
to the sun,

1310
00:39:03,590 --> 00:39:04,829
because they reach deeper.

1311
00:39:06,340 --> 00:39:07,840
Sunlight damages the top four to

1312
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:08,640
six inches.

1313
00:39:09,610 --> 00:39:10,849
Fungicides, I don't know what

1314
00:39:10,849 --> 00:39:12,010
the limitations are, how deep

1315
00:39:12,010 --> 00:39:13,190
they go down, but they reach

1316
00:39:13,190 --> 00:39:14,630
deep and they have a significant

1317
00:39:14,630 --> 00:39:15,849
negative effect that is long

1318
00:39:15,849 --> 00:39:17,530
lasting and difficult to recover

1319
00:39:17,530 --> 00:39:18,330
from.

1320
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:20,340
So fungicide applications, and

1321
00:39:20,340 --> 00:39:21,219
I'm referring specifically, I'm

1322
00:39:21,219 --> 00:39:22,179
not referring to

1323
00:39:22,739 --> 00:39:24,440
sulfur and copper applications.

1324
00:39:24,599 --> 00:39:25,559
I'm referring specifically to

1325
00:39:25,559 --> 00:39:26,360
synthetic fungicide

1326
00:39:26,340 --> 00:39:27,519
applications. They will have a

1327
00:39:27,519 --> 00:39:29,059
long -term detrimental effect on

1328
00:39:29,059 --> 00:39:30,880
soil fungal populations.

1329
00:39:35,619 --> 00:39:36,420
Any

1330
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,159
questions on this piece or what

1331
00:39:39,159 --> 00:39:39,960
we've talked about?

1332
00:39:39,820 --> 00:39:40,620
Yes.

1333
00:39:45,730 --> 00:39:46,630
No, not at all.

1334
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:48,159
No, not at all.

1335
00:39:49,119 --> 00:39:49,920
That,

1336
00:39:50,059 --> 00:39:52,059
when I say biocides, I'm most

1337
00:39:52,059 --> 00:39:53,119
specifically referring to

1338
00:39:53,119 --> 00:39:53,920
fungicides.

1339
00:39:53,980 --> 00:39:54,780
Their impact is

1340
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:55,920
disproportionately larger than

1341
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:56,720
everything else.

1342
00:39:57,429 --> 00:40:00,349
The key difference between a

1343
00:40:00,349 --> 00:40:02,530
synthetic fungicide and, let's

1344
00:40:02,530 --> 00:40:04,150
say, a mustard, for example,

1345
00:40:04,809 --> 00:40:06,110
is that those

1346
00:40:06,460 --> 00:40:08,679
naturally occurring compounds

1347
00:40:08,679 --> 00:40:10,550
are degraded by the soil

1348
00:40:10,550 --> 00:40:12,250
biology. In a matter of days or

1349
00:40:12,250 --> 00:40:13,070
weeks, they're gone.

1350
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:15,320
And they have very specific

1351
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:16,360
targeted influences,

1352
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:17,980
and then the whole microbiome

1353
00:40:17,980 --> 00:40:18,780
tends to recover.

1354
00:40:18,599 --> 00:40:19,619
They'll guide the microbiome in

1355
00:40:19,619 --> 00:40:20,420
a certain direction.

1356
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:21,300
but the whole thing recovers

1357
00:40:21,300 --> 00:40:22,239
very well.

1358
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:24,680
Yes, Greg.

1359
00:40:24,559 --> 00:40:25,699
So, John, you're talking about

1360
00:40:25,699 --> 00:40:26,500
fungicides.

1361
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:27,739
Look, we're grapefruits, right?

1362
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:28,980
If you want to prove that what

1363
00:40:28,980 --> 00:40:30,239
we're doing doesn't work, don't

1364
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:31,280
stay on top of your powdery

1365
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:32,080
mildew program,

1366
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:33,659
and you'll get really good,

1367
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:35,760
obvious results that this isn't

1368
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:36,560
working.

1369
00:40:37,909 --> 00:40:39,230
It's a mandated transition.

1370
00:40:39,869 --> 00:40:40,889
Hang on. Can you just expand on

1371
00:40:40,889 --> 00:40:41,690
that, Phil?

1372
00:40:41,510 --> 00:40:43,409
Yeah, so powdery mildew is

1373
00:40:43,409 --> 00:40:44,289
pretty consistent.

1374
00:40:44,449 --> 00:40:45,650
Even some of the best vineyards

1375
00:40:45,650 --> 00:40:47,869
are often susceptible to powdery

1376
00:40:47,869 --> 00:40:48,710
mildew. I think it's a

1377
00:40:48,710 --> 00:40:49,809
combination of genetics.

1378
00:40:50,369 --> 00:40:51,489
It's a combination of the

1379
00:40:51,489 --> 00:40:52,869
transition of going from a

1380
00:40:52,869 --> 00:40:54,610
system that's not functioning to

1381
00:40:54,610 --> 00:40:56,369
a nutrient system that is.

1382
00:40:57,050 --> 00:40:58,250
In our blocks that are in

1383
00:40:58,250 --> 00:40:59,570
transition, we notice we use

1384
00:40:59,570 --> 00:41:01,949
less fungicide, but I still have

1385
00:41:01,949 --> 00:41:02,750
to use them.

1386
00:41:02,730 --> 00:41:04,349
I still need to get a clean crop

1387
00:41:04,349 --> 00:41:05,230
to my winemaker.

1388
00:41:06,289 --> 00:41:07,769
The question I have is, when you

1389
00:41:07,769 --> 00:41:09,150
talk about fungicides, are you

1390
00:41:09,150 --> 00:41:11,190
specifically talking about more

1391
00:41:11,190 --> 00:41:13,769
of the synthetics, like toxin,

1392
00:41:13,989 --> 00:41:15,929
or Rowley, or those versus

1393
00:41:15,929 --> 00:41:17,429
things like stylet oil,

1394
00:41:17,929 --> 00:41:19,530
bacillus stibulus, or some of

1395
00:41:19,530 --> 00:41:20,330
the others? Yeah, yeah.

1396
00:41:20,170 --> 00:41:21,489
Yeah, correct. Absolutely

1397
00:41:21,489 --> 00:41:22,349
correct. It's an important

1398
00:41:22,349 --> 00:41:23,349
clarification. I'm talking

1399
00:41:23,349 --> 00:41:24,489
specifically about the synthetic

1400
00:41:24,489 --> 00:41:25,289
chemistry.

1401
00:41:25,619 --> 00:41:26,579
The synthetic chemistry

1402
00:41:26,989 --> 00:41:28,489
that what

1403
00:41:28,869 --> 00:41:31,150
happens with, say, stylet oil,

1404
00:41:32,010 --> 00:41:34,130
or these bacterial inoculants,

1405
00:41:34,190 --> 00:41:35,730
or those types of materials,

1406
00:41:36,429 --> 00:41:38,530
When they reach the soil,

1407
00:41:40,119 --> 00:41:41,039
they're applied to the plant.

1408
00:41:41,380 --> 00:41:42,260
Some of it reaches the soil.

1409
00:41:42,380 --> 00:41:43,199
Eventually, all of it reaches

1410
00:41:43,199 --> 00:41:44,000
the soil.

1411
00:41:45,139 --> 00:41:46,599
The other soil microbes

1412
00:41:47,679 --> 00:41:50,039
and the whole community will

1413
00:41:50,039 --> 00:41:51,300
take those molecules apart.

1414
00:41:51,659 --> 00:41:52,699
And in a matter of days or

1415
00:41:52,699 --> 00:41:53,539
weeks, they're gone.

1416
00:41:54,789 --> 00:41:56,210
But the synthetic fungicides

1417
00:41:56,210 --> 00:41:57,570
have a long -term,

1418
00:41:58,050 --> 00:41:59,150
very detrimental effect,

1419
00:41:59,250 --> 00:42:00,590
particularly on the soil fungal

1420
00:42:00,590 --> 00:42:01,390
community.

1421
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:04,300
And again,

1422
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:06,940
this is one of the things that I

1423
00:42:06,940 --> 00:42:08,619
don't understand or don't have a

1424
00:42:08,619 --> 00:42:09,500
good explanation for.

1425
00:42:10,989 --> 00:42:12,949
one of our most popular products

1426
00:42:12,949 --> 00:42:14,030
that gets used on...

1427
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:16,679
by far the largest number of

1428
00:42:16,679 --> 00:42:17,820
acres is BioCoat Gold.

1429
00:42:18,099 --> 00:42:19,239
So BioCoat Gold is a seed

1430
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:20,039
treatment

1431
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:21,500
that is a combination of

1432
00:42:21,500 --> 00:42:23,199
mycorrhizal fungi and a couple

1433
00:42:23,199 --> 00:42:24,159
dozen different species of

1434
00:42:24,159 --> 00:42:26,099
bacteria and some other things

1435
00:42:26,099 --> 00:42:26,940
that we don't talk about.

1436
00:42:27,820 --> 00:42:28,620
And

1437
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,440
BioCoat Gold gets applied to

1438
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:34,239
fungicide -treated corn seed and

1439
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:35,599
fungicide -treated soybean seed

1440
00:42:35,599 --> 00:42:36,559
all the time.

1441
00:42:37,289 --> 00:42:38,250
And growers ask, well,

1442
00:42:39,380 --> 00:42:40,739
how does it work?

1443
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:41,820
How can you get

1444
00:42:42,679 --> 00:42:45,139
mycorrhizal fungi inoculation on

1445
00:42:45,139 --> 00:42:46,320
fungicide -treated seed?

1446
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:48,619
And the answer is, I don't know.

1447
00:42:49,309 --> 00:42:50,349
I don't have an explanation.

1448
00:42:51,369 --> 00:42:52,730
It does. We clearly have the

1449
00:42:52,730 --> 00:42:53,929
evidence. We've measured it.

1450
00:42:54,110 --> 00:42:55,769
We can do treated and untreated,

1451
00:42:55,869 --> 00:42:56,670
and we can measure the

1452
00:42:56,570 --> 00:42:57,829
mycorrhizal colonization, and

1453
00:42:57,829 --> 00:42:58,769
there is a substantial,

1454
00:42:59,630 --> 00:43:01,230
measurable difference in

1455
00:43:01,230 --> 00:43:02,309
mycorrhizal colonization.

1456
00:43:02,969 --> 00:43:04,070
But so I'm

1457
00:43:04,670 --> 00:43:05,969
of the persuasion that there is,

1458
00:43:06,630 --> 00:43:08,190
again, there is this synergistic

1459
00:43:08,190 --> 00:43:10,030
community effect when you have

1460
00:43:10,030 --> 00:43:11,610
bacteria and fungi and various

1461
00:43:11,610 --> 00:43:12,650
organisms work together in

1462
00:43:12,650 --> 00:43:13,450
concert,

1463
00:43:14,300 --> 00:43:15,599
where you apply a

1464
00:43:17,530 --> 00:43:19,590
a naturally occurring compound,

1465
00:43:19,989 --> 00:43:20,849
such as sulfur,

1466
00:43:21,909 --> 00:43:25,010
to a community that is a blend

1467
00:43:25,010 --> 00:43:27,130
of bacteria and fungi, and they

1468
00:43:27,130 --> 00:43:28,130
rapidly take it apart.

1469
00:43:29,389 --> 00:43:30,889
These synthetic fungicides,

1470
00:43:32,510 --> 00:43:34,090
now I might just be, you might

1471
00:43:34,090 --> 00:43:34,909
be thinking, I might just be

1472
00:43:34,909 --> 00:43:36,309
disproving my own story, and

1473
00:43:36,309 --> 00:43:37,110
maybe I am,

1474
00:43:37,599 --> 00:43:39,380
but on a seed treatment,

1475
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:41,119
we're applying, fungicides are

1476
00:43:41,119 --> 00:43:42,980
applied as a seed treatment at a

1477
00:43:42,980 --> 00:43:44,739
rate of a few ounces per acre at

1478
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:45,720
most.

1479
00:43:45,969 --> 00:43:46,949
You're applying, over the course

1480
00:43:46,949 --> 00:43:47,969
of the season, you're applying

1481
00:43:47,969 --> 00:43:49,869
100x that amount in a vineyard.

1482
00:43:50,500 --> 00:43:51,480
And that's where the significant

1483
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:52,300
difference comes in.

1484
00:43:53,940 --> 00:43:54,740
Yes.

1485
00:43:56,619 --> 00:43:57,420
Let

1486
00:43:57,570 --> 00:44:00,969
me see what the next

1487
00:44:00,969 --> 00:44:01,769
slide is.

1488
00:44:02,699 --> 00:44:04,039
Let's just skip down a few here.

1489
00:44:05,199 --> 00:44:06,519
What happened to the pinion

1490
00:44:06,519 --> 00:44:07,320
slides?

1491
00:44:07,119 --> 00:44:07,920
There it is.

1492
00:44:09,559 --> 00:44:10,360
Yes.

1493
00:44:10,159 --> 00:44:10,960
So,

1494
00:44:11,610 --> 00:44:12,630
Greg, you're talking today,

1495
00:44:12,690 --> 00:44:13,490
right? Are you going to talk

1496
00:44:13,269 --> 00:44:14,070
about pinion?

1497
00:44:14,679 --> 00:44:15,639
Yeah, I'll mention it.

1498
00:44:15,780 --> 00:44:16,580
All right.

1499
00:44:17,039 --> 00:44:18,559
So, yes, this is the time to

1500
00:44:18,559 --> 00:44:19,360
talk about pinion.

1501
00:44:19,460 --> 00:44:20,260
This is

1502
00:44:21,170 --> 00:44:22,730
literally one of the most

1503
00:44:22,730 --> 00:44:23,809
exciting. There's about

1504
00:44:24,309 --> 00:44:25,730
three or four really exciting

1505
00:44:25,730 --> 00:44:26,750
things that I've worked on the

1506
00:44:26,750 --> 00:44:27,769
last half a dozen years.

1507
00:44:28,309 --> 00:44:29,429
One of them is field bark.

1508
00:44:30,619 --> 00:44:32,059
One of them is CropTix, which is

1509
00:44:32,059 --> 00:44:33,820
this in -field handheld sensor

1510
00:44:33,820 --> 00:44:34,980
that's going to replace SAP

1511
00:44:34,980 --> 00:44:35,780
Analysis.

1512
00:44:36,039 --> 00:44:37,920
That's going to have a beta

1513
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:38,840
launch next spring.

1514
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:39,940
I'm pretty excited about that.

1515
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:41,440
But in terms of agronomic

1516
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:42,240
products,

1517
00:44:42,500 --> 00:44:43,900
I'm more excited about this than

1518
00:44:43,900 --> 00:44:45,380
anything I've worked on in a

1519
00:44:45,380 --> 00:44:46,180
long time.

1520
00:44:46,929 --> 00:44:47,730
So,

1521
00:44:48,219 --> 00:44:49,019
opinion

1522
00:44:49,050 --> 00:44:49,969
is,

1523
00:44:52,079 --> 00:44:53,199
as of this point,

1524
00:44:54,329 --> 00:44:55,489
we're now a

1525
00:44:55,829 --> 00:44:56,630
year and a half

1526
00:44:56,980 --> 00:44:58,619
into testing it in the field.

1527
00:44:59,789 --> 00:45:01,110
And as of this point,

1528
00:45:01,630 --> 00:45:03,469
We have tried it on close to

1529
00:45:03,469 --> 00:45:05,389
three dozen different disease

1530
00:45:05,389 --> 00:45:06,429
and crop combinations,

1531
00:45:06,730 --> 00:45:08,190
both bacterial diseases and

1532
00:45:08,190 --> 00:45:08,990
fungal diseases.

1533
00:45:11,460 --> 00:45:13,320
In various contexts, some of

1534
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:14,619
them we had untreated controls,

1535
00:45:14,739 --> 00:45:17,239
but most of them we had treated

1536
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:19,280
controls comparing it with a

1537
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:20,080
conventional fungicide

1538
00:45:20,039 --> 00:45:20,840
application.

1539
00:45:21,559 --> 00:45:23,159
And so far, it has matched or

1540
00:45:23,159 --> 00:45:24,219
exceeded the performance of

1541
00:45:24,219 --> 00:45:25,420
every conventional fungicide

1542
00:45:25,420 --> 00:45:26,539
it's been compared against on

1543
00:45:26,539 --> 00:45:27,440
every different disease it's

1544
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:28,500
been compared against.

1545
00:45:29,380 --> 00:45:30,619
And it's a completely naturally

1546
00:45:30,619 --> 00:45:31,420
occurring material.

1547
00:45:31,519 --> 00:45:33,519
It's a, it's a class, it's

1548
00:45:33,519 --> 00:45:35,900
called a class 25B biocontrol.

1549
00:45:37,139 --> 00:45:38,679
I was having a conversation with

1550
00:45:38,679 --> 00:45:39,480
Pedro this morning.

1551
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:40,480
It is available here in

1552
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:41,280
California.

1553
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:42,480
It is NOP compliant.

1554
00:45:43,099 --> 00:45:44,380
CDFA has reviewed it and

1555
00:45:44,380 --> 00:45:45,460
approved it for one grower.

1556
00:45:45,599 --> 00:45:46,559
So they've paved the way for

1557
00:45:46,559 --> 00:45:47,360
others.

1558
00:45:47,929 --> 00:45:48,929
So what is pinion?

1559
00:45:50,559 --> 00:45:51,360
What,

1560
00:45:51,710 --> 00:45:52,949
what does it do exactly?

1561
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:56,160
I'm just going to,

1562
00:45:56,340 --> 00:45:58,340
well, maybe people think

1563
00:45:58,340 --> 00:45:59,340
differently about, okay,

1564
00:46:00,889 --> 00:46:02,269
for me, I want to understand how

1565
00:46:02,269 --> 00:46:03,070
a product,

1566
00:46:03,050 --> 00:46:04,409
what it does, and then I can

1567
00:46:04,409 --> 00:46:05,210
tell you how it works.

1568
00:46:05,940 --> 00:46:07,519
and the effect that it has.

1569
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:08,619
So what

1570
00:46:09,900 --> 00:46:10,719
Pinion does,

1571
00:46:11,199 --> 00:46:12,079
it does a few things.

1572
00:46:12,519 --> 00:46:13,320
First,

1573
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:15,480
if you're familiar with Olivier

1574
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:17,760
Hussain's work on Redox and

1575
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:19,260
changing the Redox environment

1576
00:46:19,260 --> 00:46:20,099
of plants,

1577
00:46:20,909 --> 00:46:21,710
Pinion

1578
00:46:21,559 --> 00:46:22,400
changes

1579
00:46:22,809 --> 00:46:24,929
the Redox

1580
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:27,519
environment on the leaf surface

1581
00:46:27,519 --> 00:46:29,039
and inside the leaf,

1582
00:46:30,289 --> 00:46:31,429
both at the same time.

1583
00:46:32,550 --> 00:46:34,409
Now that effect, that Redox

1584
00:46:34,409 --> 00:46:35,210
shift,

1585
00:46:35,519 --> 00:46:37,920
is temporary because plants

1586
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:39,260
desire homeostasis,

1587
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:41,199
and so they will shift back.

1588
00:46:41,900 --> 00:46:43,639
But that effect of shifting the

1589
00:46:43,639 --> 00:46:45,119
redox environment on the leaf

1590
00:46:45,119 --> 00:46:46,260
surface and inside the leaf

1591
00:46:46,579 --> 00:46:50,019
will last for about 24 to 48

1592
00:46:50,019 --> 00:46:52,019
hours, up to as much as 72

1593
00:46:52,019 --> 00:46:53,559
hours, but 24 to 48 hours.

1594
00:46:53,679 --> 00:46:55,519
And so this is why we've had a

1595
00:46:55,519 --> 00:46:56,659
number of people who've tried

1596
00:46:56,659 --> 00:46:57,460
it,

1597
00:46:57,570 --> 00:47:00,219
and when they have an infection,

1598
00:47:00,639 --> 00:47:02,099
a powdery mildew infection that

1599
00:47:02,099 --> 00:47:03,159
is already present,

1600
00:47:03,929 --> 00:47:05,510
They put it on and immediately,

1601
00:47:05,789 --> 00:47:06,929
24 hours later, they see a

1602
00:47:06,929 --> 00:47:07,730
difference.

1603
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:10,260
And this is the mechanism that

1604
00:47:10,260 --> 00:47:11,199
has that. This is the only

1605
00:47:11,199 --> 00:47:12,440
mechanism that I'm aware of

1606
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:14,539
inside pinion that responds that

1607
00:47:14,539 --> 00:47:15,719
rapidly and that has that rapid

1608
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:16,519
of an effect.

1609
00:47:17,250 --> 00:47:18,050
The second

1610
00:47:19,289 --> 00:47:21,389
influence that it has is because

1611
00:47:21,389 --> 00:47:22,789
of changing the redox

1612
00:47:22,789 --> 00:47:23,969
environment in part,

1613
00:47:25,199 --> 00:47:28,079
and in part because of some of

1614
00:47:28,079 --> 00:47:29,539
the microbial metabolites that

1615
00:47:29,539 --> 00:47:30,639
it contains,

1616
00:47:31,119 --> 00:47:32,820
it changes the microbiome

1617
00:47:32,820 --> 00:47:34,809
composition on the leaf

1618
00:47:35,190 --> 00:47:36,510
and within the leaf,

1619
00:47:37,030 --> 00:47:38,449
and it specifically upregulates,

1620
00:47:38,630 --> 00:47:40,650
there is this broad group of

1621
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,360
microbes that are referred to

1622
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:45,080
as,

1623
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:47,780
this is the regulatory framework

1624
00:47:47,780 --> 00:47:48,580
in Europe,

1625
00:47:48,980 --> 00:47:49,900
is what they refer to as

1626
00:47:49,900 --> 00:47:51,260
phytosanitary bacteria.

1627
00:47:52,889 --> 00:47:54,349
And phytosanitary bacteria,

1628
00:47:54,730 --> 00:47:55,989
in plain and simple English,

1629
00:47:56,329 --> 00:47:58,510
simply are organisms that are

1630
00:47:58,510 --> 00:48:00,289
very effective at disabling

1631
00:48:01,590 --> 00:48:04,329
They suppress and clean up a

1632
00:48:04,329 --> 00:48:05,670
number of different diseases.

1633
00:48:07,030 --> 00:48:08,289
And then the third effect

1634
00:48:08,599 --> 00:48:11,239
is, and this is where we have

1635
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:12,780
some preliminary documentation,

1636
00:48:13,199 --> 00:48:14,019
but there's

1637
00:48:14,750 --> 00:48:15,750
such a diversity of plant

1638
00:48:15,750 --> 00:48:16,670
species, there's a lot more

1639
00:48:16,670 --> 00:48:17,610
homework that we need to do

1640
00:48:17,610 --> 00:48:18,410
here.

1641
00:48:18,789 --> 00:48:19,969
But our understanding when we

1642
00:48:19,969 --> 00:48:22,599
measure mRNA expression

1643
00:48:23,389 --> 00:48:24,769
with

1644
00:48:25,210 --> 00:48:26,630
and without opinion application,

1645
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:29,019
it appears that

1646
00:48:30,860 --> 00:48:32,460
Pinion is activating,

1647
00:48:32,989 --> 00:48:34,250
as far as we've been able to

1648
00:48:34,250 --> 00:48:35,309
identify at this very

1649
00:48:35,309 --> 00:48:36,250
preliminary stage,

1650
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:38,780
at least 17 different immune

1651
00:48:38,780 --> 00:48:40,000
pathways within the plant.

1652
00:48:41,159 --> 00:48:43,219
So it is changing the plant's

1653
00:48:43,219 --> 00:48:44,260
epigenetic expression,

1654
00:48:45,199 --> 00:48:46,340
it's changing the plant's

1655
00:48:46,340 --> 00:48:47,599
microbiome, and it's changing

1656
00:48:47,599 --> 00:48:48,559
the redox environment.

1657
00:48:49,900 --> 00:48:52,739
And because of this effect, so

1658
00:48:52,739 --> 00:48:54,119
this first effect,

1659
00:48:54,940 --> 00:48:56,719
as I described, changing the

1660
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:57,840
redox environment is a very

1661
00:48:57,840 --> 00:48:58,640
rapid effect.

1662
00:48:58,780 --> 00:49:00,480
That will produce a disease

1663
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:02,079
response

1664
00:49:03,570 --> 00:49:05,190
of suppressing disease in a

1665
00:49:05,190 --> 00:49:06,050
matter of a day or two.

1666
00:49:06,269 --> 00:49:08,670
But the other two effects take

1667
00:49:08,670 --> 00:49:10,550
days to weeks to have peak

1668
00:49:10,550 --> 00:49:11,350
response.

1669
00:49:11,900 --> 00:49:13,099
So this is a type of material

1670
00:49:13,099 --> 00:49:15,119
that while many growers are

1671
00:49:15,119 --> 00:49:16,139
using it effectively as a

1672
00:49:16,139 --> 00:49:17,119
treatment, it's going to be most

1673
00:49:17,119 --> 00:49:18,159
effective as

1674
00:49:18,469 --> 00:49:19,269
a preventative.

1675
00:49:21,010 --> 00:49:22,050
Does that match your experience

1676
00:49:22,050 --> 00:49:22,850
with it, Greg?

1677
00:49:23,289 --> 00:49:24,690
We did it later in the season.

1678
00:49:24,969 --> 00:49:26,710
So we had an infestation of

1679
00:49:26,710 --> 00:49:29,530
powdery mildew and muscat.

1680
00:49:30,139 --> 00:49:31,860
We compared it to pristine.

1681
00:49:32,559 --> 00:49:33,920
And it was comparable,

1682
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:35,260
but it was later in the season.

1683
00:49:35,639 --> 00:49:36,960
We didn't get a chance to do

1684
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:37,760
this yet.

1685
00:49:39,340 --> 00:49:40,400
What we've observed,

1686
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:41,600
and again, there's,

1687
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:44,039
as you can tell from the various

1688
00:49:44,039 --> 00:49:45,659
mechanisms, the modes of action,

1689
00:49:46,630 --> 00:49:47,489
there

1690
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:49,659
is a degree of environmental

1691
00:49:49,659 --> 00:49:50,659
dependency here.

1692
00:49:51,469 --> 00:49:53,090
There's a degree of, the degree

1693
00:49:53,090 --> 00:49:54,849
of plant health and plant vigor

1694
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:56,820
is going to, and the degree of

1695
00:49:56,820 --> 00:49:57,880
the microbiome, what the

1696
00:49:57,880 --> 00:49:58,920
microbiome that already exists

1697
00:49:58,920 --> 00:49:59,720
is,

1698
00:50:00,630 --> 00:50:02,269
has the ability to influence the

1699
00:50:02,269 --> 00:50:03,070
product's effectiveness.

1700
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:05,260
But we have a number of growers

1701
00:50:05,260 --> 00:50:07,539
who have put on an application,

1702
00:50:08,059 --> 00:50:08,860
one application

1703
00:50:09,369 --> 00:50:11,909
having a six to an eight week

1704
00:50:11,909 --> 00:50:12,710
effect.

1705
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:15,940
as compared to three to four

1706
00:50:15,940 --> 00:50:16,940
fungicide applications.

1707
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:18,500
But that also hasn't always been

1708
00:50:18,500 --> 00:50:19,420
the case. There have been some

1709
00:50:19,420 --> 00:50:20,360
environments where it didn't

1710
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:21,300
have that six to eight week

1711
00:50:21,300 --> 00:50:22,100
effect. And I'm of the

1712
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:23,179
persuasion it was because of the

1713
00:50:23,179 --> 00:50:24,260
microbiome and because of the

1714
00:50:24,260 --> 00:50:25,280
environment that they put it in.

1715
00:50:27,289 --> 00:50:28,329
So I'm

1716
00:50:30,309 --> 00:50:31,150
more than a little bit excited

1717
00:50:31,150 --> 00:50:31,950
about Penyon.

1718
00:50:32,190 --> 00:50:33,130
John, another thought.

1719
00:50:33,289 --> 00:50:34,769
If it's stimulating a genetic

1720
00:50:34,769 --> 00:50:35,670
response,

1721
00:50:36,619 --> 00:50:38,739
how much of an effect do you

1722
00:50:38,739 --> 00:50:40,079
think where you are in sort of

1723
00:50:40,079 --> 00:50:40,940
the plant health pyramid?

1724
00:50:41,079 --> 00:50:42,019
I mean, if we're at level one,

1725
00:50:42,079 --> 00:50:42,880
right?

1726
00:50:43,039 --> 00:50:44,019
Are we going to get a good

1727
00:50:44,019 --> 00:50:44,820
response?

1728
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:46,659
Or how dependent is it?

1729
00:50:46,699 --> 00:50:48,280
Like, do you need to be at least

1730
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:49,840
at level two so you're starting

1731
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:51,440
to get that ASR, SAR,

1732
00:50:52,340 --> 00:50:53,140
you know, response?

1733
00:50:55,900 --> 00:50:57,920
I think it depends more.

1734
00:51:01,769 --> 00:51:03,429
As I understand what is

1735
00:51:03,429 --> 00:51:05,110
happening within plants and with

1736
00:51:05,110 --> 00:51:05,910
this product,

1737
00:51:07,230 --> 00:51:09,909
the major variable

1738
00:51:10,730 --> 00:51:11,989
dependent on plant health is

1739
00:51:11,989 --> 00:51:12,909
going to be time of

1740
00:51:12,909 --> 00:51:13,710
effectiveness.

1741
00:51:14,539 --> 00:51:15,340
So you

1742
00:51:15,630 --> 00:51:17,110
might have opinion application

1743
00:51:17,110 --> 00:51:18,809
be very effective for five to

1744
00:51:18,809 --> 00:51:20,690
seven days on a stress plant and

1745
00:51:20,900 --> 00:51:21,800
then shut off.

1746
00:51:22,349 --> 00:51:23,590
Whereas on

1747
00:51:23,900 --> 00:51:25,440
a plant that has abundant levels

1748
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:26,240
of energy,

1749
00:51:26,539 --> 00:51:28,460
that same degree, those same

1750
00:51:28,460 --> 00:51:30,019
resistance mechanisms will now

1751
00:51:30,019 --> 00:51:31,420
last for five to six to eight

1752
00:51:31,420 --> 00:51:32,220
weeks.

1753
00:51:32,219 --> 00:51:33,260
So I think it's a question of

1754
00:51:33,260 --> 00:51:34,860
the longevity of the effect.

1755
00:51:36,670 --> 00:51:37,470
Yeah.

1756
00:51:37,989 --> 00:51:40,090
Are you using it as a

1757
00:51:40,090 --> 00:51:41,630
preventative or is this a

1758
00:51:41,630 --> 00:51:42,430
reactionary?

1759
00:51:43,679 --> 00:51:45,159
We're using it in both ways.

1760
00:51:45,340 --> 00:51:46,460
Most of the experience that we

1761
00:51:46,460 --> 00:51:47,820
have so far, as Greg's

1762
00:51:47,820 --> 00:51:49,239
experience, is using it

1763
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:50,460
reactionary. but

1764
00:51:50,869 --> 00:51:53,130
we have some limited experience

1765
00:51:53,130 --> 00:51:54,130
with it as a preventative

1766
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:55,860
and We

1767
00:51:57,070 --> 00:51:59,429
had two treatments on

1768
00:51:59,429 --> 00:52:01,429
strawberries at the beginning of

1769
00:52:01,429 --> 00:52:04,300
the season Effectively

1770
00:52:05,059 --> 00:52:06,300
replaced eight fungicide

1771
00:52:06,300 --> 00:52:07,219
applications later.

1772
00:52:09,019 --> 00:52:09,820
Yeah.

1773
00:52:10,590 --> 00:52:11,390
Yes

1774
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:24,920
It is somewhat systemic, but I

1775
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:26,059
don't know to what degree.

1776
00:52:27,170 --> 00:52:29,110
It is somewhat systemic and I'm

1777
00:52:29,110 --> 00:52:30,409
certain this is the case because

1778
00:52:30,409 --> 00:52:31,210
we actually did some

1779
00:52:31,110 --> 00:52:32,130
experimentation where we

1780
00:52:32,130 --> 00:52:33,630
isolated leaves or isolated

1781
00:52:33,630 --> 00:52:36,809
branches and there is a systemic

1782
00:52:36,809 --> 00:52:38,389
effect and that it does

1783
00:52:38,389 --> 00:52:39,190
transfer.

1784
00:52:39,780 --> 00:52:42,239
We found limited transfer from

1785
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:44,599
branch to branch on fruit trees.

1786
00:52:45,519 --> 00:52:47,920
But we did find transfer from

1787
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:49,460
leaf to leaf on the same branch.

1788
00:52:49,860 --> 00:52:51,360
So there is some degree of

1789
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:53,119
systemic activity that goes on,

1790
00:52:53,159 --> 00:52:54,239
but I don't know yet fully to

1791
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:55,039
what degree.

1792
00:52:56,750 --> 00:52:57,710
So that's good news.

1793
00:52:57,969 --> 00:52:59,369
Perfect coverage isn't required

1794
00:52:59,369 --> 00:53:00,610
as a resistance mechanism.

1795
00:53:00,750 --> 00:53:02,130
Now, if you're doing it as a

1796
00:53:02,130 --> 00:53:02,930
treatment,

1797
00:53:02,750 --> 00:53:03,969
then I would expect that to be

1798
00:53:03,969 --> 00:53:04,769
the case.

1799
00:53:06,570 --> 00:53:07,690
Any other questions on pinion?

1800
00:53:10,570 --> 00:53:11,570
I wonder how many of you are not

1801
00:53:11,570 --> 00:53:12,670
going to try it this next year.

1802
00:53:13,610 --> 00:53:14,410
Yes.

1803
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:16,440
There is no pre -harvest

1804
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:17,240
interval.

1805
00:53:17,710 --> 00:53:18,750
There is no pre -harvest

1806
00:53:18,750 --> 00:53:19,550
interval like this.

1807
00:53:21,110 --> 00:53:22,789
This is being recorded, so I'm

1808
00:53:22,789 --> 00:53:23,690
not going to say that you can

1809
00:53:23,690 --> 00:53:24,849
drink it, but I'd happily drink

1810
00:53:24,849 --> 00:53:25,650
it.

1811
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:27,219
I know how it's made.

1812
00:53:28,210 --> 00:53:29,010
Yes.

1813
00:53:33,909 --> 00:53:34,710
Why

1814
00:53:34,989 --> 00:53:42,670
are

1815
00:53:44,510 --> 00:53:45,310
you laughing? Greg?

1816
00:53:47,019 --> 00:53:48,440
It's the parallel universe

1817
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:49,300
reality, Greg.

1818
00:53:50,230 --> 00:53:51,309
You know, a lot of us live in a

1819
00:53:51,309 --> 00:53:52,590
very different reality.

1820
00:53:53,510 --> 00:53:55,389
I mean, not to answer for Tom,

1821
00:53:55,469 --> 00:53:57,869
but I think the difference is we

1822
00:53:57,869 --> 00:53:59,050
see the world for what it really

1823
00:53:59,050 --> 00:54:00,510
is, and a lot of the rest of the

1824
00:54:00,510 --> 00:54:01,550
world see the world for what

1825
00:54:01,550 --> 00:54:03,010
they wish it was, which is a

1826
00:54:03,010 --> 00:54:04,630
very simple linear system.

1827
00:54:04,949 --> 00:54:06,090
It's not. It's a complex

1828
00:54:06,090 --> 00:54:07,170
biological system.

1829
00:54:07,510 --> 00:54:08,829
And when you understand this,

1830
00:54:08,989 --> 00:54:10,230
this kind of approach makes

1831
00:54:10,230 --> 00:54:11,030
sense.

1832
00:54:11,070 --> 00:54:11,929
I mean, they've done that with

1833
00:54:11,929 --> 00:54:13,150
some of the others, like, you

1834
00:54:13,150 --> 00:54:14,869
know, Japonica, and there's

1835
00:54:14,869 --> 00:54:16,070
others that have gone down this

1836
00:54:16,070 --> 00:54:16,870
path.

1837
00:54:18,199 --> 00:54:19,599
The short version,

1838
00:54:20,570 --> 00:54:21,370
you know,

1839
00:54:21,690 --> 00:54:23,469
I try to understand first

1840
00:54:26,219 --> 00:54:28,320
cause mechanisms and first

1841
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:29,120
principles.

1842
00:54:29,989 --> 00:54:31,789
And I've used that same type of

1843
00:54:31,789 --> 00:54:32,989
thinking to try to understand

1844
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:34,519
why

1845
00:54:36,039 --> 00:54:38,280
have we adopted this particular

1846
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:39,559
approach to agronomy over the

1847
00:54:39,559 --> 00:54:40,699
last 60 to 80 years?

1848
00:54:42,559 --> 00:54:44,320
Why has our agricultural system

1849
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:46,579
evolved? Why is genetically

1850
00:54:46,579 --> 00:54:48,619
modified Roundup Ready corn 90 %

1851
00:54:48,619 --> 00:54:49,420
of our corn production?

1852
00:54:51,190 --> 00:54:52,130
And I'm

1853
00:54:53,340 --> 00:54:54,140
of the persuasion

1854
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:57,199
that one of the foundational

1855
00:54:57,199 --> 00:54:58,619
reasons why we have this

1856
00:54:58,619 --> 00:55:00,579
particular model of agriculture

1857
00:55:01,309 --> 00:55:02,510
is protectable,

1858
00:55:02,989 --> 00:55:03,969
patentable intellectual

1859
00:55:03,969 --> 00:55:04,769
property.

1860
00:55:05,630 --> 00:55:07,210
And when we view product

1861
00:55:07,210 --> 00:55:08,690
development through that lens of

1862
00:55:08,690 --> 00:55:09,710
how mainstream products are

1863
00:55:09,710 --> 00:55:10,510
developed,

1864
00:55:10,670 --> 00:55:13,269
it describes why we have GMOs.

1865
00:55:13,510 --> 00:55:15,329
It describes why we have single

1866
00:55:15,329 --> 00:55:17,170
motive action fungicides and

1867
00:55:17,170 --> 00:55:18,309
pesticides

1868
00:55:19,170 --> 00:55:20,429
more generally.

1869
00:55:22,510 --> 00:55:23,570
But that's not the way

1870
00:55:23,570 --> 00:55:24,829
biological systems actually

1871
00:55:24,829 --> 00:55:25,670
work. And this is one of the

1872
00:55:25,670 --> 00:55:26,869
reasons why so

1873
00:55:27,699 --> 00:55:29,559
many biocontrol products

1874
00:55:30,670 --> 00:55:32,210
fail in the long term,

1875
00:55:32,670 --> 00:55:34,670
is because if you want to have

1876
00:55:34,670 --> 00:55:35,789
protectable intellectual

1877
00:55:35,789 --> 00:55:36,590
property,

1878
00:55:36,889 --> 00:55:38,070
they try to identify,

1879
00:55:38,630 --> 00:55:39,430
and I'm just going to

1880
00:55:39,329 --> 00:55:40,150
oversimplify this.

1881
00:55:40,219 --> 00:55:41,139
conversation here a little bit,

1882
00:55:41,179 --> 00:55:42,420
but they try to identify a

1883
00:55:42,420 --> 00:55:43,220
specific

1884
00:55:43,420 --> 00:55:45,760
organism that can suppress one

1885
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:46,780
specific other organism.

1886
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:49,119
They try to find a bug that will

1887
00:55:49,119 --> 00:55:50,099
treat powdery mildew.

1888
00:55:51,010 --> 00:55:52,469
But the reality is that's not

1889
00:55:52,469 --> 00:55:53,670
how biological ecosystems

1890
00:55:53,670 --> 00:55:55,090
actually work. You have a

1891
00:55:55,090 --> 00:55:55,929
community effect.

1892
00:55:56,050 --> 00:55:57,309
You have a consortium effect

1893
00:55:57,309 --> 00:55:59,429
where you have dozens of

1894
00:55:59,429 --> 00:56:00,650
different microbes across a

1895
00:56:00,650 --> 00:56:01,650
number of different species that

1896
00:56:01,650 --> 00:56:02,969
have a collective effect on

1897
00:56:02,969 --> 00:56:03,769
powdery mildew.

1898
00:56:04,590 --> 00:56:05,670
And so

1899
00:56:06,380 --> 00:56:07,860
It's that type of thinking,

1900
00:56:08,980 --> 00:56:10,360
to come back and to answer your

1901
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:11,160
question,

1902
00:56:12,090 --> 00:56:14,900
I briefly described biocode

1903
00:56:14,900 --> 00:56:17,380
gold. That biocode gold is

1904
00:56:17,860 --> 00:56:20,659
a combination of bacterial

1905
00:56:20,659 --> 00:56:21,460
inoculant,

1906
00:56:22,139 --> 00:56:24,099
mycorrhizal fungi inoculant,

1907
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:25,380
other fungi,

1908
00:56:26,139 --> 00:56:27,440
other species that don't fall

1909
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:28,360
into those two groups,

1910
00:56:28,940 --> 00:56:30,280
specific nutritional supports

1911
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:32,019
and phytohormonal supports for

1912
00:56:32,019 --> 00:56:33,039
both plants and microbes.

1913
00:56:33,119 --> 00:56:35,039
So there's this complexity.

1914
00:56:38,269 --> 00:56:39,750
I've described in some of my

1915
00:56:39,750 --> 00:56:41,309
presentations this idea of

1916
00:56:41,309 --> 00:56:42,389
synergistic stacking.

1917
00:56:43,019 --> 00:56:44,360
What we've found in biological

1918
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:46,320
systems over and over again is

1919
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:48,559
that if you

1920
00:56:48,900 --> 00:56:51,239
can accurately identify

1921
00:56:51,909 --> 00:56:55,030
which species or which

1922
00:56:55,030 --> 00:56:56,389
groups or which products

1923
00:56:56,389 --> 00:56:57,750
synergize with each other,

1924
00:56:59,300 --> 00:57:01,400
there is this nonlinear effect.

1925
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:04,699
And so much of agriculture,

1926
00:57:04,860 --> 00:57:06,219
we've developed this very linear

1927
00:57:06,219 --> 00:57:07,659
perspective that one plus one

1928
00:57:07,659 --> 00:57:08,679
equals two and that we,

1929
00:57:09,039 --> 00:57:10,980
it's this very mechanistic

1930
00:57:10,980 --> 00:57:11,780
perspective.

1931
00:57:12,329 --> 00:57:13,150
And with biology,

1932
00:57:13,900 --> 00:57:15,579
if you combine a

1933
00:57:15,949 --> 00:57:17,170
synergistic stack, let's say

1934
00:57:17,170 --> 00:57:18,190
you're putting together a foliar

1935
00:57:18,190 --> 00:57:20,210
application and you include a

1936
00:57:20,460 --> 00:57:22,619
plant biostimulant and a

1937
00:57:22,619 --> 00:57:23,940
microbial biostimulant

1938
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:26,360
and a source of plant nutrition.

1939
00:57:27,150 --> 00:57:28,690
and a plant immune accelerator

1940
00:57:28,690 --> 00:57:31,070
and a bacterial inoculant and a

1941
00:57:31,070 --> 00:57:32,889
fungal inoculant you can put

1942
00:57:32,889 --> 00:57:34,110
together these products from

1943
00:57:34,110 --> 00:57:35,130
these very different categories

1944
00:57:35,340 --> 00:57:37,599
and sometimes if you get it

1945
00:57:37,599 --> 00:57:39,260
right one plus one doesn't equal

1946
00:57:39,260 --> 00:57:40,860
two it equals eleven and

1947
00:57:41,519 --> 00:57:42,619
that's a lot of fun when that

1948
00:57:42,619 --> 00:57:44,519
happens that's kind of the the

1949
00:57:44,519 --> 00:57:46,559
same thinking behind the

1950
00:57:46,559 --> 00:57:48,340
development of pinion is how do

1951
00:57:48,340 --> 00:57:51,300
we develop a synergistic stack

1952
00:57:51,780 --> 00:57:53,119
of modes of actions and

1953
00:57:53,119 --> 00:57:55,480
mechanisms that is so

1954
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:56,280
integrated.

1955
00:57:56,599 --> 00:57:59,260
And it integrates the plant's

1956
00:57:59,260 --> 00:58:00,760
entire microbial community,

1957
00:58:01,199 --> 00:58:02,659
the microbiome, and the plant

1958
00:58:02,659 --> 00:58:04,780
resistance mechanisms in itself

1959
00:58:04,780 --> 00:58:06,239
as well. So when you combine all

1960
00:58:06,239 --> 00:58:07,039
of those together,

1961
00:58:07,539 --> 00:58:09,320
you get this much greater effect

1962
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:10,120
than

1963
00:58:10,179 --> 00:58:11,079
when you just do one or two

1964
00:58:11,079 --> 00:58:11,880
things on its own.

1965
00:58:11,699 --> 00:58:12,500
That's how the biological

1966
00:58:12,380 --> 00:58:13,619
community was really designed to

1967
00:58:13,619 --> 00:58:14,420
work.

1968
00:58:19,179 --> 00:58:20,179
How many of you have not heard

1969
00:58:20,179 --> 00:58:21,139
me talk about the plant health

1970
00:58:21,139 --> 00:58:21,940
pyramid?

1971
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:23,960
All right, almost everyone has.

1972
00:58:23,980 --> 00:58:25,280
I've only talked about it 1 ,001

1973
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:26,080
times.

1974
00:58:30,369 --> 00:58:32,409
I'm not going to go into much

1975
00:58:32,409 --> 00:58:33,809
detail here on the plant health

1976
00:58:33,809 --> 00:58:35,469
pyramid other than to say this

1977
00:58:35,690 --> 00:58:36,750
conversation that we were just

1978
00:58:36,750 --> 00:58:37,550
having,

1979
00:58:38,309 --> 00:58:39,989
what happens, what I've observed

1980
00:58:40,469 --> 00:58:41,650
is in

1981
00:58:42,409 --> 00:58:43,210
order to get,

1982
00:58:43,559 --> 00:58:45,119
I've made this distinction in

1983
00:58:45,119 --> 00:58:45,920
the past,

1984
00:58:46,860 --> 00:58:48,360
level one and level two is based

1985
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:50,679
on good, balanced chemistry.

1986
00:58:51,199 --> 00:58:52,260
You can do this with SAP

1987
00:58:52,260 --> 00:58:53,679
analysis and foliar applications

1988
00:58:53,679 --> 00:58:54,480
in a very straightforward

1989
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:55,280
manner.

1990
00:58:55,889 --> 00:58:57,289
But level three, I used to say

1991
00:58:57,289 --> 00:58:58,710
that level three and level four

1992
00:58:58,710 --> 00:59:00,829
is based on very vigorous soil

1993
00:59:00,829 --> 00:59:01,630
biology.

1994
00:59:02,090 --> 00:59:03,670
If I had to restate this today,

1995
00:59:03,789 --> 00:59:04,630
I would say that getting to

1996
00:59:04,630 --> 00:59:05,430
level 3

1997
00:59:05,519 --> 00:59:07,460
occurs in conjunction with

1998
00:59:07,460 --> 00:59:08,500
getting to quorum sensing.

1999
00:59:09,820 --> 00:59:10,860
There's some degree of quorum

2000
00:59:10,860 --> 00:59:12,000
sensing that needs to happen in

2001
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:12,920
order to get to level 3.

2002
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:17,440
And it's

2003
00:59:17,750 --> 00:59:20,219
also to the point that these

2004
00:59:20,219 --> 00:59:21,300
gentlemen were making earlier,

2005
00:59:22,460 --> 00:59:24,260
once you get to level 3 of

2006
00:59:24,260 --> 00:59:25,060
planned health,

2007
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:26,260
um there's

2008
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:32,139
a there's a comment that i made

2009
00:59:32,139 --> 00:59:33,039
when i was talking about the

2010
00:59:33,039 --> 00:59:34,400
rhizophagy cycle and i want to

2011
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:35,860
go back and just re -emphasize

2012
00:59:35,860 --> 00:59:36,660
it again i

2013
00:59:39,420 --> 00:59:41,039
used to describe what

2014
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:43,340
is happening at level three is

2015
00:59:44,099 --> 00:59:46,260
that soil biology is

2016
00:59:46,730 --> 00:59:48,730
delivering nutrition in a more

2017
00:59:48,730 --> 00:59:49,869
efficient form

2018
00:59:50,469 --> 00:59:52,190
so plants are getting nutrients

2019
00:59:52,190 --> 00:59:54,010
more efficiently and because

2020
00:59:54,010 --> 00:59:54,989
they're getting nutrients more

2021
00:59:54,989 --> 00:59:55,789
efficiently

2022
00:59:55,900 --> 00:59:59,179
they are capturing and storing

2023
00:59:59,179 --> 01:00:01,260
extra energy in the form of fats

2024
01:00:01,260 --> 01:00:02,060
that

2025
01:00:02,500 --> 01:00:03,440
is still true

2026
01:00:04,199 --> 01:00:05,000
but

2027
01:00:05,730 --> 01:00:07,449
My present understanding is that

2028
01:00:07,449 --> 01:00:09,389
that is actually a minority of

2029
01:00:09,389 --> 01:00:10,710
where the fat in plants comes

2030
01:00:10,710 --> 01:00:11,510
from.

2031
01:00:11,909 --> 01:00:13,710
The majority of the fat that

2032
01:00:13,710 --> 01:00:14,789
shows up in plants,

2033
01:00:15,110 --> 01:00:15,910
these lipids,

2034
01:00:16,690 --> 01:00:18,730
comes from soil biology.

2035
01:00:19,130 --> 01:00:20,710
It comes from these

2036
01:00:20,710 --> 01:00:22,489
sphingolipids that are coming

2037
01:00:22,489 --> 01:00:25,389
from bacteria moving up into the

2038
01:00:25,389 --> 01:00:27,730
plant and depositing lipids into

2039
01:00:27,730 --> 01:00:29,449
plant cells and then going back

2040
01:00:29,449 --> 01:00:30,250
down for more.

2041
01:00:30,909 --> 01:00:32,550
So, if we want to talk about

2042
01:00:32,550 --> 01:00:34,449
having very high energy content

2043
01:00:34,449 --> 01:00:36,309
plants that have a very high oil

2044
01:00:36,309 --> 01:00:38,210
content, very high wax content,

2045
01:00:38,730 --> 01:00:40,369
and have exceptional degrees of

2046
01:00:40,369 --> 01:00:41,889
disease resistant and insect

2047
01:00:41,889 --> 01:00:42,690
resistance,

2048
01:00:42,769 --> 01:00:44,929
it's coming from soil biology,

2049
01:00:45,599 --> 01:00:46,980
delivering those fats into the

2050
01:00:46,980 --> 01:00:48,690
plant, not just from increased

2051
01:00:48,690 --> 01:00:49,490
photosynthesis.

2052
01:00:49,730 --> 01:00:50,530
Yes?

2053
01:00:56,230 --> 01:00:57,369
I assume they're bringing back

2054
01:00:57,369 --> 01:00:58,730
carbohydrates and other stuff

2055
01:00:58,730 --> 01:00:59,530
for the soil.

2056
01:01:00,170 --> 01:01:01,809
How are they making that

2057
01:01:01,809 --> 01:01:02,610
transfer?

2058
01:01:03,190 --> 01:01:04,550
Are they bringing lipids for

2059
01:01:04,550 --> 01:01:05,350
that as well?

2060
01:01:07,010 --> 01:01:07,810
Are you asking,

2061
01:01:07,989 --> 01:01:09,889
are microbes transporting lipids

2062
01:01:09,889 --> 01:01:11,590
back down into the soil or

2063
01:01:12,219 --> 01:01:13,019
sugars?

2064
01:01:19,519 --> 01:01:20,340
That's a good question.

2065
01:01:20,519 --> 01:01:21,840
My understanding right now is

2066
01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:24,039
that it's actually plants and

2067
01:01:24,039 --> 01:01:24,840
flora.

2068
01:01:25,139 --> 01:01:27,519
microbes themselves are not

2069
01:01:27,519 --> 01:01:28,719
responsible for transporting

2070
01:01:28,719 --> 01:01:30,059
carbohydrates down.

2071
01:01:30,239 --> 01:01:31,440
There is not a direct mechanism

2072
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:33,320
there. The plant itself wants to

2073
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:34,440
stimulate that microbial

2074
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:35,300
community and feed that

2075
01:01:35,300 --> 01:01:36,400
microbial community because it

2076
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:37,340
is in the plant's interest.

2077
01:01:37,980 --> 01:01:39,320
So the plant actually is moving

2078
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:40,120
a lot of,

2079
01:01:40,670 --> 01:01:42,489
is the primary driver and the

2080
01:01:42,489 --> 01:01:44,070
engine of moving sugars out into

2081
01:01:44,070 --> 01:01:44,870
the root system,

2082
01:01:45,030 --> 01:01:45,830
as I understand.

2083
01:01:47,610 --> 01:01:48,410
Yes,

2084
01:01:48,539 --> 01:01:49,579
microbes are an empty truck

2085
01:01:49,579 --> 01:01:50,380
going back.

2086
01:01:51,710 --> 01:01:53,010
This is such a different

2087
01:01:53,010 --> 01:01:54,849
perspective on plant nutrition.

2088
01:01:56,110 --> 01:01:56,910
So powerful.

2089
01:01:58,219 --> 01:01:59,019
All right.

2090
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:00,200
There

2091
01:02:02,590 --> 01:02:03,690
are so many different pieces

2092
01:02:03,690 --> 01:02:05,269
that I could speak about here,

2093
01:02:05,389 --> 01:02:06,190
but

2094
01:02:06,409 --> 01:02:08,809
I'll just speak a bit to what is

2095
01:02:08,809 --> 01:02:10,090
happening here at level four,

2096
01:02:10,190 --> 01:02:11,269
level three, and four combined

2097
01:02:11,269 --> 01:02:12,070
when we have increased

2098
01:02:12,030 --> 01:02:12,869
phytonutrients.

2099
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:15,579
This is where we start growing

2100
01:02:15,579 --> 01:02:17,440
wine on plants that resemble

2101
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:18,980
grapes, not grapes that are

2102
01:02:18,980 --> 01:02:20,079
translated into wine.

2103
01:02:22,539 --> 01:02:24,699
And I wanted to talk about this

2104
01:02:25,869 --> 01:02:27,789
bell curve. So this is just,

2105
01:02:28,630 --> 01:02:30,550
a fictitious bell curve that I

2106
01:02:30,550 --> 01:02:32,349
made to illustrate a concept

2107
01:02:32,349 --> 01:02:34,849
about what we see happening in

2108
01:02:34,849 --> 01:02:36,550
plants more generally, not just

2109
01:02:36,550 --> 01:02:38,489
wine grapes, but also in others.

2110
01:02:39,550 --> 01:02:41,690
The historical perception, so

2111
01:02:41,690 --> 01:02:42,530
these,

2112
01:02:44,170 --> 01:02:46,590
I used this index as plant

2113
01:02:46,590 --> 01:02:47,390
biomass

2114
01:02:47,630 --> 01:02:50,070
as an analog for

2115
01:02:50,250 --> 01:02:52,010
photosynthetic efficiency.

2116
01:02:52,989 --> 01:02:54,210
So there's been this idea

2117
01:02:55,920 --> 01:02:58,039
in the production of a number of

2118
01:02:58,039 --> 01:02:59,320
different medicinal herbs, all

2119
01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:00,719
the way from sage production,

2120
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:02,199
and I could give a long list,

2121
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:03,239
but there's been this this

2122
01:03:03,239 --> 01:03:04,800
general idea that if we want to

2123
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:06,159
produce plants that

2124
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:08,500
have high phytonutrient

2125
01:03:08,500 --> 01:03:09,480
concentrations, that have

2126
01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:11,440
exceptional flavor and aroma

2127
01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:13,679
characteristics, then we need to

2128
01:03:13,679 --> 01:03:14,659
stress those plants,

2129
01:03:15,079 --> 01:03:16,599
and we need to reduce their

2130
01:03:16,599 --> 01:03:17,440
biomass production.

2131
01:03:17,619 --> 01:03:19,900
We stress them either with water

2132
01:03:19,900 --> 01:03:20,700
dilution,

2133
01:03:20,579 --> 01:03:22,960
or with nitrogen deprivation or

2134
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:23,940
phosphorus deprivation.

2135
01:03:24,099 --> 01:03:25,179
Different nutrients are used in

2136
01:03:25,179 --> 01:03:26,079
different crops in different

2137
01:03:26,079 --> 01:03:26,880
contexts.

2138
01:03:27,460 --> 01:03:28,420
And the result is,

2139
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:30,800
by inducing plant stress, we

2140
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:31,980
limit the number of plant

2141
01:03:31,980 --> 01:03:32,780
biomass.

2142
01:03:33,199 --> 01:03:34,599
So here at this end, we limit

2143
01:03:34,599 --> 01:03:35,940
the amount of plant biomass, but

2144
01:03:35,940 --> 01:03:37,320
we have higher concentrations of

2145
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:38,120
phytonutrients.

2146
01:03:41,039 --> 01:03:42,420
That is accurate, that is

2147
01:03:42,420 --> 01:03:43,420
effective. And then the

2148
01:03:43,420 --> 01:03:44,860
historical narrative has been

2149
01:03:44,860 --> 01:03:47,139
that as you remove water

2150
01:03:47,139 --> 01:03:49,199
deprivation or nitrogen or

2151
01:03:49,199 --> 01:03:50,260
phosphorus deprivation, you get

2152
01:03:50,260 --> 01:03:51,440
this increase in photosynthesis,

2153
01:03:51,599 --> 01:03:52,599
you get this increase in plant

2154
01:03:52,599 --> 01:03:53,400
biomass,

2155
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:55,079
and you get this rapid reduction

2156
01:03:55,079 --> 01:03:56,719
in phytonutrient concentrations.

2157
01:03:58,329 --> 01:03:59,510
And that is also accurate.

2158
01:03:59,849 --> 01:04:01,699
But that is where the story

2159
01:04:01,699 --> 01:04:02,500
ended

2160
01:04:02,980 --> 01:04:03,780
for,

2161
01:04:04,039 --> 01:04:05,380
and that's as far as the story

2162
01:04:05,380 --> 01:04:06,320
has gone for mainstream

2163
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:07,120
agronomy.

2164
01:04:07,199 --> 01:04:08,380
What we've come to understand is

2165
01:04:08,380 --> 01:04:09,180
that

2166
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:10,120
this

2167
01:04:10,510 --> 01:04:11,510
there is this plateau.

2168
01:04:12,010 --> 01:04:13,809
So let's say that this describes

2169
01:04:13,809 --> 01:04:15,949
about a plant that is about 10

2170
01:04:15,949 --> 01:04:17,769
to 15%. Actually, if this plant

2171
01:04:17,769 --> 01:04:18,570
is stressed,

2172
01:04:19,139 --> 01:04:20,380
this is about somewhere in the

2173
01:04:20,380 --> 01:04:21,539
neighborhood of 5 to 10 %

2174
01:04:21,539 --> 01:04:22,480
photosynthetic efficiency.

2175
01:04:24,340 --> 01:04:26,800
You add water or phosphorus or

2176
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:27,940
nitrogen, you get much higher

2177
01:04:27,940 --> 01:04:29,239
levels of plant biomass.

2178
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:30,840
And now you're going to be in

2179
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:32,440
the neighborhood of 15 to 20 %

2180
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:33,719
photosynthetic efficiency here.

2181
01:04:34,599 --> 01:04:35,840
And this is what most of

2182
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:37,659
agriculture is familiar with, is

2183
01:04:37,659 --> 01:04:38,460
plants that are

2184
01:04:38,260 --> 01:04:39,340
photosynthetically efficient in

2185
01:04:39,340 --> 01:04:40,639
the neighborhood of 15 to 20%.

2186
01:04:41,389 --> 01:04:43,230
But then if you work with

2187
01:04:43,230 --> 01:04:44,289
nutrition to

2188
01:04:45,210 --> 01:04:46,010
have

2189
01:04:46,050 --> 01:04:47,429
better

2190
01:04:47,869 --> 01:04:48,710
photosynthesis,

2191
01:04:49,050 --> 01:04:50,289
higher quality photosynthesis,

2192
01:04:50,469 --> 01:04:51,889
and you have a highly functional

2193
01:04:51,889 --> 01:04:52,690
microbiome,

2194
01:04:53,210 --> 01:04:54,349
your photosynthetic efficiency

2195
01:04:54,349 --> 01:04:55,829
will go up even further.

2196
01:04:55,949 --> 01:04:58,210
It'll go up to 35 to 40%.

2197
01:04:58,780 --> 01:05:01,179
And here's the piece that many

2198
01:05:01,179 --> 01:05:01,980
people have missed.

2199
01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:02,840
When you have a plant that has

2200
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:03,860
these high degrees of

2201
01:05:03,860 --> 01:05:05,019
photosynthetic efficiency, you

2202
01:05:05,019 --> 01:05:06,960
also have much higher

2203
01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:08,599
concentrations of these

2204
01:05:08,599 --> 01:05:09,539
phytonutrients,

2205
01:05:09,940 --> 01:05:10,960
these phenolic and aromatic

2206
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:11,760
compounds.

2207
01:05:12,239 --> 01:05:14,000
that will be at even higher

2208
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:15,219
levels than they are today.

2209
01:05:17,070 --> 01:05:17,949
So this

2210
01:05:20,079 --> 01:05:22,139
idea that we need to stress

2211
01:05:22,139 --> 01:05:24,480
plants to produce high levels of

2212
01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:25,280
phytonutrients,

2213
01:05:25,989 --> 01:05:26,789
actually it's very simple.

2214
01:05:26,829 --> 01:05:28,400
Just try to persuade any

2215
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:29,639
cannabis grower anywhere that

2216
01:05:29,639 --> 01:05:30,659
they should stress their plants.

2217
01:05:31,420 --> 01:05:32,980
You will not get to square one.

2218
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:36,289
And the same concept can

2219
01:05:36,659 --> 01:05:38,780
also be applied to wine grape

2220
01:05:38,780 --> 01:05:39,580
production.

2221
01:05:40,460 --> 01:05:41,940
But we have to balance that.

2222
01:05:42,559 --> 01:05:43,360
If you

2223
01:05:44,610 --> 01:05:47,050
If you only use mainstream

2224
01:05:47,050 --> 01:05:48,389
agronomic approaches and you

2225
01:05:48,389 --> 01:05:49,849
only get to 15 to 20 %

2226
01:05:49,849 --> 01:05:51,090
photosynthetic efficiency, then

2227
01:05:51,090 --> 01:05:52,210
yes, you will have reduced

2228
01:05:52,210 --> 01:05:53,170
quality. You'll have reduced

2229
01:05:53,170 --> 01:05:53,970
phytonutrient content.

2230
01:05:53,949 --> 01:05:55,570
But we have to use these

2231
01:05:55,570 --> 01:05:57,090
biological approaches to push

2232
01:05:57,090 --> 01:05:58,570
past that threshold and get to

2233
01:05:58,570 --> 01:05:59,370
this point.

2234
01:05:59,710 --> 01:06:00,630
And then what

2235
01:06:00,949 --> 01:06:02,769
can happen is you can have more

2236
01:06:02,769 --> 01:06:04,150
grapes on a plant and

2237
01:06:04,619 --> 01:06:06,389
have better flavor production,

2238
01:06:07,619 --> 01:06:09,440
higher concentrations of flavor

2239
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:10,340
and quality and phenolic

2240
01:06:10,340 --> 01:06:11,440
compounds in those

2241
01:06:12,429 --> 01:06:14,070
grapes.

2242
01:06:14,699 --> 01:06:15,500
So

2243
01:06:16,030 --> 01:06:17,909
the last

2244
01:06:19,269 --> 01:06:20,070
thought.

2245
01:06:21,869 --> 01:06:23,530
Well, there's a few things yet

2246
01:06:23,530 --> 01:06:24,670
that I'd like to speak to, but

2247
01:06:24,670 --> 01:06:25,470
when

2248
01:06:26,570 --> 01:06:27,510
we have these conversations

2249
01:06:27,510 --> 01:06:28,730
about regenerative agriculture

2250
01:06:28,730 --> 01:06:30,150
and around biology,

2251
01:06:33,139 --> 01:06:33,940
there are

2252
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:37,420
discussions about incorporating

2253
01:06:37,420 --> 01:06:38,880
cover crops, having diverse

2254
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:39,780
cover crop species,

2255
01:06:40,039 --> 01:06:40,920
incorporating livestock.

2256
01:06:44,360 --> 01:06:45,160
We

2257
01:06:47,380 --> 01:06:49,500
can make it sound really complex

2258
01:06:49,500 --> 01:06:50,300
and

2259
01:06:50,639 --> 01:06:51,440
really challenging,

2260
01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:53,079
challenging from an execution

2261
01:06:53,079 --> 01:06:54,079
perspective and from a

2262
01:06:54,079 --> 01:06:54,900
management perspective.

2263
01:06:56,710 --> 01:06:58,590
And I'm not suggesting that

2264
01:06:58,590 --> 01:06:59,989
those things are not valuable.

2265
01:07:00,409 --> 01:07:01,210
In fact,

2266
01:07:01,530 --> 01:07:02,550
I think particularly in the case

2267
01:07:02,550 --> 01:07:03,630
of cover crops, I think they're

2268
01:07:03,630 --> 01:07:04,590
absolutely necessary.

2269
01:07:05,900 --> 01:07:07,099
And I think livestock are also

2270
01:07:07,099 --> 01:07:07,900
very valuable.

2271
01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:12,360
But many of our soils and

2272
01:07:12,900 --> 01:07:14,360
many of our conditions that

2273
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:15,599
we're growing plants in have

2274
01:07:15,599 --> 01:07:17,440
degraded to such a degree

2275
01:07:18,039 --> 01:07:20,500
that there are many things we

2276
01:07:20,500 --> 01:07:21,920
can do that will have a

2277
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:23,300
significant impact before

2278
01:07:23,300 --> 01:07:24,360
getting to that point.

2279
01:07:25,389 --> 01:07:26,289
And earlier,

2280
01:07:27,610 --> 01:07:29,650
I described the three biggest

2281
01:07:29,650 --> 01:07:30,670
things that have the most

2282
01:07:30,670 --> 01:07:32,670
damaging effect on soil biology

2283
01:07:32,670 --> 01:07:33,510
and soil health,

2284
01:07:33,829 --> 01:07:35,469
being bare exposed soil,

2285
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:37,400
fertilizer applications,

2286
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:39,099
and fungicide accumulation.

2287
01:07:40,610 --> 01:07:41,769
None of those things involve

2288
01:07:41,769 --> 01:07:42,570
livestock.

2289
01:07:43,590 --> 01:07:45,889
So getting soil covered is

2290
01:07:45,889 --> 01:07:47,030
probably going to include cover

2291
01:07:47,030 --> 01:07:47,830
crops.

2292
01:07:48,329 --> 01:07:51,150
But my point is only that

2293
01:07:53,090 --> 01:07:56,289
it's easy to get overwhelmed

2294
01:07:56,289 --> 01:07:58,400
and to just get the idea that

2295
01:07:58,400 --> 01:07:59,500
there is so much involved.

2296
01:07:59,639 --> 01:08:00,820
This is so complex and so

2297
01:08:00,820 --> 01:08:02,179
difficult and not to do anything

2298
01:08:02,179 --> 01:08:02,980
at all.

2299
01:08:03,719 --> 01:08:06,380
And we're all familiar with the

2300
01:08:06,380 --> 01:08:07,599
Pareto principle, the 80 -20

2301
01:08:07,599 --> 01:08:09,199
principle. It's often 80 % of

2302
01:08:09,199 --> 01:08:10,579
the results come from 20 % of

2303
01:08:10,579 --> 01:08:11,380
the things that you do.

2304
01:08:12,019 --> 01:08:13,119
And I'm of the persuasion

2305
01:08:13,690 --> 01:08:14,630
that

2306
01:08:15,690 --> 01:08:18,130
Adding livestock is valuable and

2307
01:08:18,130 --> 01:08:18,930
beneficial,

2308
01:08:19,619 --> 01:08:20,859
but it's probably not in the

2309
01:08:20,859 --> 01:08:22,680
first 80 % of what people need

2310
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:23,480
to tackle.

2311
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:25,539
There are some very simple,

2312
01:08:25,699 --> 01:08:27,579
straightforward things of simply

2313
01:08:27,890 --> 01:08:30,510
replacing salty fertilizers with

2314
01:08:30,510 --> 01:08:31,789
nutrient sources that don't have

2315
01:08:31,789 --> 01:08:32,770
a detrimental effect on soil

2316
01:08:32,770 --> 01:08:33,570
biology,

2317
01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:35,220
keeping our soil covered

2318
01:08:35,789 --> 01:08:37,590
with cover crop residue,

2319
01:08:38,420 --> 01:08:40,000
adding microbial inoculants, and

2320
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:41,699
doing some of these practices

2321
01:08:41,699 --> 01:08:42,500
that are

2322
01:08:42,670 --> 01:08:44,989
much easier to implement

2323
01:08:46,079 --> 01:08:48,140
that will get us a long distance

2324
01:08:48,140 --> 01:08:49,140
down the road of where we want

2325
01:08:49,140 --> 01:08:49,940
to go.

2326
01:08:53,739 --> 01:08:54,680
And of course you see there you

2327
01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:55,880
have to replace fungicides with

2328
01:08:55,880 --> 01:08:56,699
pinion to get there.

2329
01:09:00,279 --> 01:09:01,079
All right,

2330
01:09:01,100 --> 01:09:01,960
I'll

2331
01:09:03,550 --> 01:09:04,930
speak just a bit yet about

2332
01:09:05,029 --> 01:09:05,949
photosynthesis,

2333
01:09:07,619 --> 01:09:09,300
and then I'm going to pause for

2334
01:09:09,300 --> 01:09:10,100
a break.

2335
01:09:13,729 --> 01:09:14,529
Ultimately,

2336
01:09:14,819 --> 01:09:16,300
in order to get this system to

2337
01:09:16,300 --> 01:09:17,100
work,

2338
01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:19,239
we have to have two things.

2339
01:09:19,600 --> 01:09:22,180
One is we have to have a diverse

2340
01:09:22,180 --> 01:09:23,579
microbial population of soil.

2341
01:09:24,149 --> 01:09:24,949
And second,

2342
01:09:25,210 --> 01:09:26,590
we need to get

2343
01:09:27,479 --> 01:09:28,699
large volumes of sugars out of

2344
01:09:28,699 --> 01:09:29,699
the soil. Yes, you have a

2345
01:09:29,699 --> 01:09:30,500
question.

2346
01:09:36,050 --> 01:09:39,130
As far as monitoring the

2347
01:09:39,130 --> 01:09:40,670
positive impacts you have on

2348
01:09:40,670 --> 01:09:42,569
soil biology by assessing the

2349
01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:44,340
community itself,

2350
01:09:45,109 --> 01:09:47,369
do you have recommendations on

2351
01:09:47,369 --> 01:09:49,250
who to use? There are labs out

2352
01:09:49,250 --> 01:09:50,649
there. I see Dan here with

2353
01:09:50,649 --> 01:09:52,449
agrology. I think monitoring

2354
01:09:52,449 --> 01:09:54,250
respiration is a great macro

2355
01:09:54,250 --> 01:09:55,510
indicator.

2356
01:09:55,890 --> 01:09:57,420
I would agree. In terms of

2357
01:09:57,420 --> 01:09:58,220
actually

2358
01:09:58,439 --> 01:10:00,500
trying to tailor the community

2359
01:10:00,500 --> 01:10:01,619
in the direction that you want

2360
01:10:01,619 --> 01:10:02,659
it, based on the soil and the

2361
01:10:02,659 --> 01:10:03,460
outcome,

2362
01:10:03,479 --> 01:10:04,920
you're trying to achieve.

2363
01:10:21,050 --> 01:10:21,850
It's

2364
01:10:23,109 --> 01:10:24,210
an outstanding question.

2365
01:10:27,189 --> 01:10:28,609
There are emerging technologies

2366
01:10:28,609 --> 01:10:30,010
that I think are going to get us

2367
01:10:30,010 --> 01:10:30,810
there.

2368
01:10:31,949 --> 01:10:33,250
Dr. Laura Kavanaugh,

2369
01:10:33,779 --> 01:10:34,579
who's now

2370
01:10:35,020 --> 01:10:37,840
running not trace genomics, but

2371
01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:39,180
genomic insights or

2372
01:10:39,590 --> 01:10:40,390
genome insights.

2373
01:10:40,909 --> 01:10:43,470
I'm very intrigued and impressed

2374
01:10:43,470 --> 01:10:44,270
with

2375
01:10:44,539 --> 01:10:45,960
her DNA sequencing work.

2376
01:10:50,329 --> 01:10:52,210
I've been quite frustrated over

2377
01:10:52,210 --> 01:10:54,829
the years with PLFA analysis and

2378
01:10:54,829 --> 01:10:56,109
all these various types of soil

2379
01:10:56,109 --> 01:10:57,149
microbiome analysis.

2380
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:01,199
And maybe it's been a failure on

2381
01:11:01,199 --> 01:11:02,000
my part,

2382
01:11:02,439 --> 01:11:04,779
but I haven't understood how

2383
01:11:05,090 --> 01:11:06,810
to translate those lab results

2384
01:11:06,810 --> 01:11:08,210
into practical recommendations.

2385
01:11:08,569 --> 01:11:09,609
Okay, I have this information,

2386
01:11:09,729 --> 01:11:11,090
what do I do with it differently

2387
01:11:11,090 --> 01:11:11,989
from what I've been doing

2388
01:11:11,989 --> 01:11:12,789
before?

2389
01:11:14,630 --> 01:11:17,020
So I believe there is technology

2390
01:11:17,020 --> 01:11:18,979
coming that will get us to that

2391
01:11:18,979 --> 01:11:19,779
point.

2392
01:11:20,130 --> 01:11:21,729
We don't yet have the depth of

2393
01:11:21,729 --> 01:11:22,609
experience with it

2394
01:11:23,020 --> 01:11:24,840
to be able to say that with

2395
01:11:24,840 --> 01:11:25,640
certainty.

2396
01:11:26,289 --> 01:11:28,210
But what I can say kind of

2397
01:11:28,210 --> 01:11:29,189
broadly generally

2398
01:11:30,020 --> 01:11:31,439
is I've

2399
01:11:32,609 --> 01:11:33,529
come to the conclusion

2400
01:11:34,739 --> 01:11:36,819
that a diversity of plant

2401
01:11:36,819 --> 01:11:37,619
species

2402
01:11:37,699 --> 01:11:39,520
solves most problems,

2403
01:11:40,270 --> 01:11:41,369
prevents most problems.

2404
01:11:42,239 --> 01:11:44,500
And actually it's worth speaking

2405
01:11:44,500 --> 01:11:46,079
about this just a bit because I

2406
01:11:46,079 --> 01:11:47,619
didn't expand on it earlier.

2407
01:11:50,529 --> 01:11:51,670
Christine Jones from Australia

2408
01:11:51,670 --> 01:11:54,649
gave us the idea that we need to

2409
01:11:54,649 --> 01:11:55,449
have

2410
01:11:55,590 --> 01:11:57,890
plants from eight different

2411
01:11:57,890 --> 01:11:58,850
plant families.

2412
01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:00,800
And the basis for that

2413
01:12:01,479 --> 01:12:02,279
is,

2414
01:12:02,319 --> 01:12:03,920
so there's two thoughts here.

2415
01:12:04,039 --> 01:12:04,880
One is

2416
01:12:05,550 --> 01:12:06,930
recognizing that

2417
01:12:07,430 --> 01:12:09,350
each seed, we should start

2418
01:12:09,350 --> 01:12:11,109
thinking about our seeds as

2419
01:12:11,109 --> 01:12:12,130
microbial inoculants

2420
01:12:12,699 --> 01:12:15,060
because every seed is a vector

2421
01:12:15,060 --> 01:12:16,380
for a microbial community.

2422
01:12:16,539 --> 01:12:17,600
A corn seed has like nine

2423
01:12:17,600 --> 01:12:18,920
billion microorganisms in it

2424
01:12:18,920 --> 01:12:19,720
according to Dr.

2425
01:12:19,579 --> 01:12:20,380
White.

2426
01:12:20,979 --> 01:12:22,500
And we understand that each

2427
01:12:22,500 --> 01:12:24,539
plant species has its own

2428
01:12:24,539 --> 01:12:26,699
associated microbiome that it

2429
01:12:26,699 --> 01:12:27,840
prefers to have a relationship

2430
01:12:27,840 --> 01:12:29,220
with and that it carries along

2431
01:12:29,220 --> 01:12:30,500
from one generation to the next.

2432
01:12:31,399 --> 01:12:32,500
So when you have

2433
01:12:34,479 --> 01:12:36,460
eight different plant families,

2434
01:12:37,630 --> 01:12:38,970
not within family, but at least

2435
01:12:38,970 --> 01:12:40,050
eight different plant families.

2436
01:12:40,170 --> 01:12:41,449
And again, this is, this is

2437
01:12:41,449 --> 01:12:42,250
just,

2438
01:12:42,390 --> 01:12:44,909
there isn't, there is not a hard

2439
01:12:44,909 --> 01:12:46,029
science or anything that's

2440
01:12:46,029 --> 01:12:46,829
published around this.

2441
01:12:46,710 --> 01:12:47,810
It's just based on experience

2442
01:12:47,810 --> 01:12:49,470
and observation that when you

2443
01:12:49,470 --> 01:12:50,489
have eight different plant

2444
01:12:50,489 --> 01:12:52,539
families, you get these

2445
01:12:52,539 --> 01:12:53,979
synergistic quorum sensing

2446
01:12:53,979 --> 01:12:55,739
effects. That's the showing up.

2447
01:12:56,869 --> 01:12:59,270
And I've observed these quorum

2448
01:12:59,270 --> 01:13:00,609
sensing effects showing up with

2449
01:13:00,609 --> 01:13:02,210
as little as six plant families.

2450
01:13:03,079 --> 01:13:04,079
I don't know if there was

2451
01:13:04,079 --> 01:13:06,399
anything unique about that

2452
01:13:06,399 --> 01:13:07,199
particular combination.

2453
01:13:07,300 --> 01:13:08,979
So it can occur with less than

2454
01:13:08,979 --> 01:13:10,260
eight, but eight is kind of the

2455
01:13:10,260 --> 01:13:11,479
confidence threshold that we

2456
01:13:11,479 --> 01:13:12,279
have.

2457
01:13:12,260 --> 01:13:13,239
When we have eight different

2458
01:13:13,239 --> 01:13:14,039
plant families,

2459
01:13:14,550 --> 01:13:15,609
this whole microbial interaction

2460
01:13:15,609 --> 01:13:16,409
starts changing.

2461
01:13:17,579 --> 01:13:20,359
And so there is an element of

2462
01:13:21,029 --> 01:13:23,329
If we have enough microbial

2463
01:13:23,329 --> 01:13:24,550
diversity and

2464
01:13:24,869 --> 01:13:26,170
plant species diversity,

2465
01:13:27,449 --> 01:13:29,810
look, the reality is even with

2466
01:13:30,409 --> 01:13:33,470
very detailed DNA sequencing and

2467
01:13:33,689 --> 01:13:36,449
even with deep learning and AI,

2468
01:13:37,350 --> 01:13:39,090
I don't think we will ever begin

2469
01:13:39,090 --> 01:13:41,229
to fully understand the sheer

2470
01:13:41,229 --> 01:13:42,590
complexity of what happens in

2471
01:13:42,590 --> 01:13:43,649
the soil microbial community.

2472
01:13:44,149 --> 01:13:45,649
And there's also an element of

2473
01:13:45,649 --> 01:13:46,710
we don't need to.

2474
01:13:48,109 --> 01:13:49,729
You get to an overall level of

2475
01:13:49,729 --> 01:13:50,810
effectiveness and performance,

2476
01:13:50,949 --> 01:13:52,170
and it was designed to work.

2477
01:13:53,239 --> 01:13:54,239
We just need to give it

2478
01:13:55,300 --> 01:13:56,720
the nutrients, the energy that

2479
01:13:56,720 --> 01:13:57,920
it needs to work and get out of

2480
01:13:57,920 --> 01:13:58,720
the way.

2481
01:13:59,180 --> 01:14:00,960
So that's my answer to your

2482
01:14:00,960 --> 01:14:01,760
question.

2483
01:14:02,899 --> 01:14:04,640
And from a crop and plant

2484
01:14:04,640 --> 01:14:05,440
perspective,

2485
01:14:05,779 --> 01:14:06,739
do you have a crop that's

2486
01:14:06,739 --> 01:14:07,939
resistant, has increasing

2487
01:14:07,939 --> 01:14:09,479
resistance to disease and

2488
01:14:09,479 --> 01:14:10,279
insects?

2489
01:14:10,199 --> 01:14:11,279
I mean, there's so many

2490
01:14:11,279 --> 01:14:12,899
indicators, just practical real

2491
01:14:12,899 --> 01:14:13,779
world indicators of the

2492
01:14:13,779 --> 01:14:14,619
direction that we're going in.

2493
01:14:17,930 --> 01:14:20,329
So on this last thought

2494
01:14:21,090 --> 01:14:22,630
of photosynthesis, this is the

2495
01:14:22,630 --> 01:14:24,310
foundational fuel that

2496
01:14:24,970 --> 01:14:27,050
drives the entire ecosystem.

2497
01:14:28,140 --> 01:14:29,039
And it

2498
01:14:30,859 --> 01:14:31,659
would be,

2499
01:14:32,130 --> 01:14:33,609
Worthwhile to speak about this

2500
01:14:33,609 --> 01:14:34,409
in some detail.

2501
01:14:35,029 --> 01:14:36,270
You mentioned that agrology is

2502
01:14:36,270 --> 01:14:37,070
here and

2503
01:14:37,359 --> 01:14:38,520
that we have the ability to

2504
01:14:38,520 --> 01:14:39,760
measure CO2 flux in the

2505
01:14:39,760 --> 01:14:40,560
atmosphere.

2506
01:14:41,189 --> 01:14:43,829
I'm of the persuasion that CO2

2507
01:14:43,829 --> 01:14:45,909
is a limiting factor for crops

2508
01:14:45,909 --> 01:14:47,989
with at least as often, if not

2509
01:14:47,989 --> 01:14:49,390
more often, as water.

2510
01:14:50,289 --> 01:14:51,350
not having enough water.

2511
01:14:51,850 --> 01:14:53,529
So what we need for optimal

2512
01:14:53,529 --> 01:14:55,069
photosynthesis is we need

2513
01:14:55,479 --> 01:14:56,560
good carbon dioxide

2514
01:14:56,560 --> 01:14:57,360
availability,

2515
01:14:57,340 --> 01:14:58,140
we need water,

2516
01:14:58,340 --> 01:14:59,539
we need chlorophyll production,

2517
01:15:00,550 --> 01:15:03,350
and then those five elements.

2518
01:15:06,720 --> 01:15:07,579
And I'm actually going to

2519
01:15:07,579 --> 01:15:09,260
separate out manganese for

2520
01:15:09,640 --> 01:15:10,440
just a bit.

2521
01:15:13,029 --> 01:15:15,250
I find that in many instances,

2522
01:15:15,670 --> 01:15:16,470
if we

2523
01:15:16,739 --> 01:15:19,789
have plants that have generous

2524
01:15:19,789 --> 01:15:20,810
levels of chlorophyll,

2525
01:15:21,399 --> 01:15:22,560
They have generous levels of

2526
01:15:22,560 --> 01:15:23,680
water and carbon dioxide,

2527
01:15:24,250 --> 01:15:25,130
but they're still,

2528
01:15:25,869 --> 01:15:27,949
the energy production is not

2529
01:15:27,949 --> 01:15:28,750
where it needs to be.

2530
01:15:29,010 --> 01:15:30,090
Let me say it this way.

2531
01:15:33,899 --> 01:15:35,699
I'm persuaded that

2532
01:15:36,210 --> 01:15:38,460
when plants and

2533
01:15:38,939 --> 01:15:40,760
crops are stuck at

2534
01:15:41,319 --> 01:15:42,619
level one and level two of the

2535
01:15:42,619 --> 01:15:43,760
plant health pyramid, and they

2536
01:15:43,760 --> 01:15:45,159
struggle to get to level three,

2537
01:15:46,369 --> 01:15:47,909
it's because of two nutrients

2538
01:15:47,909 --> 01:15:49,090
not being an adequate supply.

2539
01:15:50,060 --> 01:15:51,479
They're manganese and boron.

2540
01:15:54,600 --> 01:15:56,579
And the reason for those two is

2541
01:15:56,960 --> 01:15:57,760
because

2542
01:15:59,000 --> 01:15:59,800
in

2543
01:16:00,319 --> 01:16:01,819
I'm persuaded that in many

2544
01:16:01,819 --> 01:16:02,619
crops,

2545
01:16:02,979 --> 01:16:06,119
manganese is the bottleneck.

2546
01:16:06,710 --> 01:16:08,170
It's the gating mechanism that

2547
01:16:08,170 --> 01:16:09,750
is gating photosynthesis and

2548
01:16:09,750 --> 01:16:10,989
overall sugar production.

2549
01:16:12,010 --> 01:16:14,170
So even if you have perfect

2550
01:16:14,170 --> 01:16:15,229
conditions with perfect

2551
01:16:15,229 --> 01:16:16,529
temperature and lighting and

2552
01:16:16,529 --> 01:16:17,390
dark green plants with

2553
01:16:17,390 --> 01:16:18,449
chlorophyll and adequate levels

2554
01:16:18,449 --> 01:16:19,550
of water and carbon dioxide,

2555
01:16:20,130 --> 01:16:21,350
if they don't have generous

2556
01:16:21,350 --> 01:16:22,909
levels of manganese, manganese

2557
01:16:22,909 --> 01:16:24,270
becomes the gating mechanism

2558
01:16:24,270 --> 01:16:25,170
that limits

2559
01:16:25,869 --> 01:16:27,550
overall photosynthesis and sugar

2560
01:16:27,550 --> 01:16:28,350
production.

2561
01:16:28,310 --> 01:16:29,110
And then

2562
01:16:29,890 --> 01:16:31,449
When you do have a plant that

2563
01:16:31,449 --> 01:16:32,430
has high levels of sugar

2564
01:16:32,430 --> 01:16:33,230
production,

2565
01:16:33,810 --> 01:16:36,050
boron is required to translocate

2566
01:16:36,050 --> 01:16:37,710
it down to the roots and to

2567
01:16:37,710 --> 01:16:40,369
translocate it into the berries

2568
01:16:40,369 --> 01:16:41,729
or the fruit or the grain.

2569
01:16:42,689 --> 01:16:43,489
And

2570
01:16:43,539 --> 01:16:46,130
I'm of the persuasion that if we

2571
01:16:46,130 --> 01:16:48,010
addressed those two and we made

2572
01:16:48,010 --> 01:16:49,270
sure that plants had generous

2573
01:16:49,270 --> 01:16:50,869
levels of those two, it'd be

2574
01:16:50,869 --> 01:16:52,090
much easier to

2575
01:16:52,430 --> 01:16:53,449
get to level three on Plant

2576
01:16:53,449 --> 01:16:54,630
Health Pyramid for many growers.